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View Full Version : PRE/IN/POST GAME TFC @ NY 7:00PM; Sep. 29 GOL TV Canada



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denime
09-26-2012, 09:59 PM
This game will be reality check for us.

NY 3:1

Joe Kool
09-26-2012, 10:25 PM
This game will be reality check for us.

NY 3:1

Terry "The Legend" Dunfield is good to go...could be a close one. NY will have to triple the coverage on him so that should open up some space.

But seriously, score 1 and concede 3 or 4 sounds about right.

SirBobSaget
09-26-2012, 10:42 PM
There are only two certainties in life, Taxes and Maund starting. both suck

tfcleeds
09-26-2012, 10:57 PM
I think Dunfield will score a hat-trick (snicker, snicker). On the other hand, I think we'll discover the Red Bulls are no Aguila.

Red CB Toronto
09-27-2012, 12:43 AM
I looking forward to being in Red Bull Arena Saturday and cheering on the Reds to victory, hopefully anyway. In reality RBNY will be a challenge for sure, it will be up to the back line to kick Henry, Cooper in check.

Super
09-27-2012, 08:50 AM
Fighting for their jobs at this point. I expect nothing short of a 100% effort. Anyone giving less should be axed in the off-season.

I wish Mariner's job was on the line, too, but I think most of us would've fired him several games ago anyway.

trane
09-27-2012, 11:46 AM
Terry " The Canadian Pele" Dunfield, the best box-to-box midfielder ever, will destroy the NY Red Bulls. 3 goals, 3 assists, 20 tackels, 100 passess, 90% complition.


Is he in the running for FIFA player of the year? If not why not?

Beach_Red
09-27-2012, 11:55 AM
Fighting for their jobs at this point. I expect nothing short of a 100% effort. Anyone giving less should be axed in the off-season.

I wish Mariner's job was on the line, too, but I think most of us would've fired him several games ago anyway.

What a situation for the players - jobs on the line but not that of their boss.

Initial B
09-27-2012, 12:28 PM
I don't hold much hope that TFC can win this game. I'd say Red Bulls win 3-1 as well - they'll get up 2 gals then take their foot off the gas to let us score before coming right back and netting an insurance marker.

Gazza
09-27-2012, 12:29 PM
Dunfield vs. Henry? Easy.

lintberg
09-27-2012, 01:08 PM
I'll be in NY Satuday nighy cheering on the boys in Red at Red Bull Arena.
Likely to be a challenging match, hopefully we can at least take away a point.

TFC John
09-27-2012, 09:58 PM
Here's hoping you have a better time in New York than our boys will. Even with Terry "the best 23 in the league" Dunfield (I hear he's a leader of men) they will be up against it. NY 3-1 TFC sounds optimistic to me.

mowe
09-27-2012, 10:08 PM
Terry " The Canadian Pele" Dunfield, the best box-to-box midfielder ever, will destroy the NY Red Bulls. 3 goals, 3 assists, 20 tackels, 100 passess, 90% complition.


Is he in the running for FIFA player of the year? If not why not?

Ok this made me laugh way more than it should. The last line was gold.

Anyway all I'm hoping for at this point is that some of our young guys like Stinson, Cordon, and Makubuya get some playing time. On the other hand, Paul Mariner is our coach.

Yohan
09-27-2012, 10:55 PM
Ok this made me laugh way more than it should. The last line was gold.

Anyway all I'm hoping for at this point is that some of our young guys like Stinson, Cordon, and Makubuya get some playing time. On the other hand, Paul Mariner is our coach.
I'm going to take a very risky guess and say no. Because Mariner is saving up the young players for matches that truly matter.

Whoever didn't travel with the team to Aguila will likely not be in NY game.

TFC07
09-28-2012, 12:32 AM
Hopefully we pick up a draw.

narduch
09-28-2012, 08:19 AM
NYRB are in the playoff race. They need a win to stay out of the play-in game plus they still have a shot at 1st in the Conference.

I don't expect them to slip up against TFC.

I'm expecting a loss, and possibly an embarrassing one.

Gazza
09-28-2012, 03:03 PM
2-1 Toronto.

Dunfield with the game winner.

Kitchen Sink get's man of the match.

Derko
09-29-2012, 06:12 AM
NYRB are in the playoff race. They need a win to stay out of the play-in game plus they still have a shot at 1st in the Conference.

I don't expect them to slip up against TFC.

I'm expecting a loss, and possibly an embarrassing one.

Likewise, did you read the e-mail subject from TFC, Toronto to play spoiler, I'm fed up with all Toronto teams 'Playing Spoiler' have some fucking pride and field a contender for fucks sake

bigredone
09-29-2012, 11:58 AM
^I like it more than playing for pride.^ If we play spoiler (which sucks too, but all we got) perhaps it can be the start of an aggressive rivalry. Back to the pride thing, if we are said to be playing for pride that is rock bottom. Play for pride means do not fuck up too bad because there is no purpose to your current existence. Play for spoiler means we have a chance to effect some kinda change.

Lennon
09-29-2012, 12:22 PM
Makubuya is a beast for me in FIFA 13 (10 goals in 10 games). Can't understand why he's not starting ..

[NBF]
09-29-2012, 05:41 PM
Freddy Hall vs Thierry Henry......After this game he will be "Legendary" in Bermuda.

Jeff s
09-29-2012, 05:59 PM
Do we honestly need 4 defenders on the bench Mariner? Really? Can't spare one of them for an academy player? Not one?

Island Man
09-29-2012, 06:02 PM
Well kick off is not far away. 3-1 NYRB imo, would love to be surprised though.

Torontotonto
09-29-2012, 06:04 PM
Come on you REDS

:flare::drum::scarf::drum::flare:


Our home, Our club
Were all in this together !

Suds
09-29-2012, 06:04 PM
http://www.thefirstrow.eu/watch/144013/1/watch-new-york-red-bulls-vs-toronto-fc.html

Feed is case anyone needs it.

Island Man
09-29-2012, 06:06 PM
http://atdhenet.tv/51870/watch-new-york-red-bulls-vs-toronto-fc

another stream here.

[NBF]
09-29-2012, 06:08 PM
Im watching TFC pregame, Thomas Rongen showing off the TFC Senior and Academy Training Centre, IMO the players are coddled with massage therapists and multiple swimming pools.

Torontotonto
09-29-2012, 06:09 PM
Well kick off is not far away. 3-1 NYRB imo, would love to be surprised though.

At this point, no result could be as painfull as the 5 - nil score for a playoff spot in NYC in 2009.
Who would have thought 6 years later will still haven't made an appearance.

:facepalm:

[NBF]
09-29-2012, 06:09 PM
I didnt see who was on the bench, I was eyeing the lineup that seemed to imply that Jeremy Hall was playing centre back.

Auzzy
09-29-2012, 06:09 PM
I'm watching on MLS Live. I absolutely HATE the colour commentator for the US broadcast, whatever the hell his name is. He always acts so effin knowledgeable, even when doesn't have a clue what he's talking about. During other games, I've heard him state obviously false information, but always with the same annoying know-it-all attitude. Sickening.

Suds
09-29-2012, 06:10 PM
Wow. wide open in the first couple minutes

ouderwien
09-29-2012, 06:10 PM
I'm assuming we are wearing white shorts because of NY's red short?

Either way it looks silly.

Island Man
09-29-2012, 06:10 PM
;1532673']I didnt see who was on the bench, I was eyeing the lineup that seemed to imply that Jeremy Hall was playing centre back.

4CB's, Roberts, Avila and Wiedeman.

Silva hits the bloody post.

Couchy81
09-29-2012, 06:12 PM
Silva has so many chances, he has to score one of these times...

[NBF]
09-29-2012, 06:15 PM
lol@Ryan Johnson, NYRB have a rookie in the net, he's their freddy hall.

Island Man
09-29-2012, 06:15 PM
Johnsonnnnn

Relja
09-29-2012, 06:15 PM
OMG!

Couchy81
09-29-2012, 06:15 PM
HOLY SHIT! Ryan johnson just scored the goal of the week

Suds
09-29-2012, 06:15 PM
O M G!! that was a hell of a strike!!

Did everyone catch the dip on that as is approached the goal?

notthesun
09-29-2012, 06:16 PM
That was a beauty.

Alonso
09-29-2012, 06:17 PM
O M G!! that was a hell of a strike!!

Did everyone catch the dip on that as is approached the goal?


That was awesome!

Reminds me of the one against Seattle I believe early in the year.

I really think people who question whether this guy should be on our team should give their heads a shake.

He doesn't take up huge salary at all for what he provides.

ag futbol
09-29-2012, 06:21 PM
That was awesome!

Reminds me of the one against Seattle I believe early in the year.

I really think people who question whether this guy should be on our team should give their heads a shake.

He doesn't take up huge salary at all for what he provides.
I think that's the conditional. He doesn't take up the cap space but you have to live with his inconsistency.

Def an MLS player though and a piece of the puzzle

gracos
09-29-2012, 06:22 PM
Freddy Hall needs to be released from TFC at the end of the season, he would be best in the beer leagues

Suds
09-29-2012, 06:23 PM
F Hall has no chance on that corner.

Dkolish3
09-29-2012, 06:23 PM
Well at least we're back in familiar territory, giving up a goal on a set piece.

Island Man
09-29-2012, 06:23 PM
FFS, just awful defending.

Alonso
09-29-2012, 06:24 PM
Would it be to much to ask this team to revenge October 24th 2009?

Come on TFC do your part to knock these guys out of the playoffs!

Suds
09-29-2012, 06:30 PM
FFS, we got away with one there. Clear penalty by Maund. But at least he did what he could to throw Henry off.

tfcleeds
09-29-2012, 06:32 PM
Didn't realize Leeds United legend Lloyd Sam was playing with the Red Bulls...lol.

Ajax TFC
09-29-2012, 06:32 PM
That was awesome!

Reminds me of the one against Seattle I believe early in the year.

I really think people who question whether this guy should be on our team should give their heads a shake.

He doesn't take up huge salary at all for what he provides.
I have a bigger issue with what we gave up to get him. No I'm not talking about Peterson, I would have given him away for free, I mean trading Alan Gordon who was fucked over by our medical staff

Belfast_Boy
09-29-2012, 06:34 PM
link?

Suds
09-29-2012, 06:35 PM
link?

http://www.thefirstrow.eu/watch/144013/1/watch-new-york-red-bulls-vs-toronto-fc.html

Island Man
09-29-2012, 06:35 PM
Didn't realize Leeds United legend Lloyd Sam was playing with the Red Bulls...lol.

Was on trial with Portsmouth in the summer, he was rejected by us and we were singing almost anyone.

SirBobSaget
09-29-2012, 06:36 PM
Wow Henry, 99% of forwards would have tried for goal

Suds
09-29-2012, 06:36 PM
ugh ... we take out our own goalie on the play

That was horrible by O'Dea. He just let Henry run away from him when he made the play out wide. O'Dea was ball watching.

ouderwien
09-29-2012, 06:37 PM
Ecks toook out Hall.

notthesun
09-29-2012, 06:37 PM
Looks like the collapse is on.

jloome
09-29-2012, 06:38 PM
http://www.thefirstrow.eu/watch/144013/1/watch-new-york-red-bulls-vs-toronto-fc.html

LOL, not sure you're doing anyone any favors

These two commentators are drunk. Eckersley was angling to take the guy with the ball and Hall came out way too early

TOBOR !
09-29-2012, 06:39 PM
Hall late out to challenge Henry there, and some poor defending by Eckersley as well.

Auzzy
09-29-2012, 06:40 PM
Agreed, dreadful dreadful by O'Dear. Gets beat by Henry, Ecks has to cover for him, and O'Dear jogs back slowly, doesn't look around, instead of going to cover Cooper. Kenny is not very fast, O'Dear should have been able to cover him or at least bothered him if he had paid attention and given a shit.

Alonso
09-29-2012, 06:40 PM
I have a bigger issue with what we gave up to get him. No I'm not talking about Peterson, I would have given him away for free, I mean trading Alan Gordon who was fucked over by our medical staff

Yeah I thought Gordon coming off the bench for Koevs would have probably been a better fit under Winter's system.

Koevs could have played for 60 minutes at the beginning of the year until he got back into shape with someone like Gordon coming of the bench for him.

I liked Gordon, but I like Johnson as well. He's a good piece for this team.

Suds
09-29-2012, 06:41 PM
LOL, not sure you're doing anyone any favors

These two commentators are drunk. Eckersley was angling to take the guy with the ball and Hall came out way too early

Well, TFC has driven me to drink so I can understand if they are drunk. LOL

jloome
09-29-2012, 06:41 PM
We've dropped back into a defensive posture again. Let the slaughter begin.

Island Man
09-29-2012, 06:42 PM
Let's be honest it was really bad from Ecks, O'Dea and Hall.

Belfast_Boy
09-29-2012, 06:44 PM
The commentary makes dobs look like a genius.

jloome
09-29-2012, 06:45 PM
LOL on Dunleavy's comment re Amerikwa vs. Conde "It was like a receiver versus a defensive back."

Yeah, a really short, amateur receiver against a really tall, professional defensive back.

Auzzy
09-29-2012, 06:45 PM
Let's be honest it was really bad from Ecks, O'Dea and Hall.

Very true, nobody looked good there.

jloome
09-29-2012, 06:47 PM
I love Luis Silva as an attacker, but he's not ready to start in the middle of the park. What is he doing out there defensively? He just wanders around out of position most of the time.

jloome
09-29-2012, 06:49 PM
At least rocking the old school shorts they can just whip them off at the end of the game and wave them, flag like.

Auzzy
09-29-2012, 06:49 PM
Oh man this is going to be a looooonnnnggg game.

Suds
09-29-2012, 06:50 PM
Did he not get a yellow for that tackle?? Studs showing and foot that high sliding in??

Auzzy
09-29-2012, 06:51 PM
Did he not get a yellow for that tackle?? Studs showing and foot that high sliding in??

Unbelievable, studs were almost knee high.

jloome
09-29-2012, 06:52 PM
Wow, rotten reffing today too. He was onside there, angled his run.

jloome
09-29-2012, 06:57 PM
"You've got to look at the quality right now," says Serious. "It's good, and that's what we want to see in the second half."

Well, assuming true, that would be a 4-2 final for NY with 60% possession.

Jesus. It's like they have Al Capone standing behind them with a Louisville Slugger or something.

Island Man
09-29-2012, 06:57 PM
I love the way Maund stands around, pretending he knows how to play soccer

Auzzy
09-29-2012, 07:00 PM
I love the way Maund stands around, pretending he knows how to play soccer

Ha! I guess you're @BruceHardingTFC on Twitter... ;)

Island Man
09-29-2012, 07:02 PM
Ha! I guess you're @BruceHardingTFC on Twitter... ;)

Haha yes! and who are you on twitter?

Auzzy
09-29-2012, 07:04 PM
Haha yes! and who are you on twitter?

@asmusgeorgi, I'm pretty quiet though, I was just using half time to check what's up under #TFCLive.

DoubleUp
09-29-2012, 07:11 PM
I love Luis Silva as an attacker, but he's not ready to start in the middle of the park. What is he doing out there defensively? He just wanders around out of position most of the time.

I agree!

Island Man
09-29-2012, 07:13 PM
Wiedeman on ffs.

tfcleeds
09-29-2012, 07:13 PM
Hopefully the knock to Silva isn't too serious.

Eastend
09-29-2012, 07:18 PM
I hate Henry for what he did to Ireland (yes, it's on him), but damn does he ever still have it.

Dom

Eastend
09-29-2012, 07:21 PM
Also, how many DP quality players does NY have, 4/5?

Dom

Auzzy
09-29-2012, 07:24 PM
Hopefully the knock to Silva isn't too serious.

Crap, it looks like another injury to TFC where a foul wasn't even called. Silva got hacked down badly before half time, no whistle, total bullshit.

Island Man
09-29-2012, 07:25 PM
We are effectively playing with 9 men with Maund and Wiedeman on the pitch

Suds
09-29-2012, 07:25 PM
I hate Henry for what he did to Ireland (yes, it's on him), but damn does he ever still have it.

Dom

Players like that don't lose their touch. Speed and fitness they do. But they seem to always keep touch.

anto7
09-29-2012, 07:26 PM
Crap, it looks like another injury to TFC where a foul wasn't even called. Silva got hacked down badly before half time, no whistle, total bullshit.
Any chance one of you guys actually tell us when someone scores. I am guessing we are down 2-1 ?

Suds
09-29-2012, 07:28 PM
^^
nyrb 2 - tfc 1

Eastend
09-29-2012, 07:28 PM
2-1 ny

anto7
09-29-2012, 07:30 PM
^^
nyrb 2 - tfc 1
Thanks

tfcleeds
09-29-2012, 07:31 PM
Coulda sworn that was 3-1, phew.

Dkolish3
09-29-2012, 07:32 PM
We need the "the best finisher in the modern era" put in Weedman, put in Weedman.



Sarcasm just in case

tfcleeds
09-29-2012, 07:33 PM
We have the best finisher in the modern era, just as we have the best manager in the modern era. ;)

Dkolish3
09-29-2012, 07:35 PM
We need the "the best finisher in the modern era" put in Weedman, put in Weedman.



Sarcasm just in case

My mistake it seems "the best finisher in the modern era" is already on the field.

Dkolish3
09-29-2012, 07:37 PM
We need more offense we should put on Avil..... I mean Doneil Henry.

Auzzy
09-29-2012, 07:42 PM
We need more offense we should put on Avil..... I mean Doneil Henry.

Put Quillan Roberts in as a striker. At least he can score a goal now & then.

tfcleeds
09-29-2012, 07:43 PM
Watching the stream with the MSG commentators. In the space of 5 minutes, they mentioned the DeRo trade ("from which Toronto has never really recovered since") and the 5-0 loss to "perhaps the worst Red Bulls side ever". Yeah, kick us while we're down, don't you...:facepalm:

Eastend
09-29-2012, 07:43 PM
Lack of quality for TFC is obviously evident but decent half so far.

Dom

notthesun
09-29-2012, 07:48 PM
Good lord Maund cannot pass the ball at all. He's not even close.

I feel bad singling him out because he's just a rookie, but that's the point... he's a rookie, no coach in his right mind should be starting this guy. He's only ever going to be a depth player but it's obvious he needs multiple years of development before he even gets that far. Mariner's gonna ruin his career playing him too early like this, just like Winter did with Cordon.

Don't even get me started on the fact that we have Avila sitting on the bench.

Auzzy
09-29-2012, 07:50 PM
Come on, Avila, score a hat trick in the last 8 minutes, then Mariner can't keep benching you.
;)

Dkolish3
09-29-2012, 07:50 PM
We need more offense we should put on Avil..... I mean Doneil Henry.

Avila's on the field! Avila's on the field!

Auzzy
09-29-2012, 07:52 PM
Unfortunately most of Eck's passes are also crap.

Suds
09-29-2012, 07:54 PM
Henry rapes three of our defenders to get that ball to the open man.

tfcleeds
09-29-2012, 07:55 PM
Well, that's a wrap. No more than NYRB deserve, really.

notthesun
09-29-2012, 07:55 PM
Wow Henry, that was class.

Auzzy
09-29-2012, 07:55 PM
Looks like first division team vs. third division. That's where TFC should be playing.

tfcleeds
09-29-2012, 07:55 PM
Henry has done a good job of making O'Dea look like the human pylon he is tonite.

Initial B
09-29-2012, 07:57 PM
I guess the TFC defenders don't trust each other. That's the only reason I can see for all three of them to converge on henry and leave the scorer open like that...

Island Man
09-29-2012, 07:58 PM
Wow Henry, that was class.

No it wasn;t just shit defending.

Initial B
09-29-2012, 07:59 PM
Okay, now that was just rubbing it in...

ryan
09-29-2012, 07:59 PM
pathetic

Suds
09-29-2012, 07:59 PM
FFS!

Class finish by Henry though

notthesun
09-29-2012, 08:01 PM
Why the hell was Hall so far out? He practically begged Henry to loop it over him. Mariner is a clown for putting this clown in net.

Beach_Red
09-29-2012, 08:02 PM
Looks like first division team vs. third division. That's where TFC should be playing.


Remember earlier in the season when TFC played Portland and there was a chance we'd get out of last place? Seems so long ago now...

Island Man
09-29-2012, 08:02 PM
Henry still so fucking good, helps with our defence being shite tbh.

forza_tfc
09-29-2012, 08:03 PM
Wow. How pathetic. How can a team with players like Wiedeman, Maund, Amerikwa, Dunfield, be considered professional. There is absolutely no positive sign for the future, both from players and from coaching. What a mess (and sad that no one really cares any more--only on p. 4?).

Initial B
09-29-2012, 08:03 PM
Agreed, Hall should not have been that far out of the net. I guess he figured the game was over by that point so why bother being where he was supposed to be? No pride, I guess.

nonc
09-29-2012, 08:04 PM
the non-foul call on Avila before the goal was sickening but easy to stomach with the scoreline hurting mariner more..

our movement off the ball is still atrocious. hell, even when our players get the ball they love to stop for some reason until they find their pass. forget that we suck, it's embarrassing that such a young team can look so slow against any other MLS team, because they aren't demanded to run.

it's also ridiculous how often we waste deep field position with bad chips and low-percentage crosses. keep that f*cker on the ground.

Auzzy
09-29-2012, 08:04 PM
NY is a good team, TFC makes them look stellar.

cochrdoc
09-29-2012, 08:04 PM
Another fine performance .If this front office thinks their only 4 players away from competing,I would like to know what drugs they are on.They let go players who were better then what they picked up.The team created few chances at goal.How many goals has this team given up on corner kicks and free kicks.This team can`t beat Div.3 teams in pre season let alone compete in MLS.I think this team will sink deeper in the hole next year before someone realizes the people they have in charge do not know what they are doing.How many games do you have to lose and see the fan base drop off like it did before something might happen

Island Man
09-29-2012, 08:05 PM
Maund, Wiedeman, Hallx2 are just awful.

tfcleeds
09-29-2012, 08:06 PM
I just don't understand what Mariner sees in this guy. He absolutely should not be playing at this level. 2 apps for League Two Northampton Town does not a solid track record make. There are a dozen keepers in NASL/USL who would have been better options.

Alonso
09-29-2012, 08:07 PM
Oh well.

At least it was fun to watch.

From an impartial perspective it was fun watching NYRB tonight.

Auzzy
09-29-2012, 08:07 PM
That's 90+ minutes of my life I'll never get back.

Alonso
09-29-2012, 08:08 PM
Oh well.

At least it was fun to watch.

From an impartial perspective it was fun watching NYRB tonight.

Also appreciated Johnson's GOLASO!

Suds
09-29-2012, 08:09 PM
Another fine performance .If this front office thinks their only 4 players away from competing,I would like to know what drugs they are on.They let go players who were better then what they picked up.The team created few chances at goal.How many goals has this team given up on corner kicks and free kicks.This team can`t beat Div.3 teams in pre season let alone compete in MLS.I think this team will sink deeper in the hole next year before someone realizes the people they have in charge do not know what they are doing.How many games do you have to lose and see the fan base drop off like it did before something might happen

I think the more they throw out terms like that it makes things worse. We can see we are more than 4 players away from being a good team and when we hear that line from anyone in the front office we get frustrated.

We are maybe four players from getting out of the basement of the league. As for being competitive, we are very far off.

Alonso
09-29-2012, 08:09 PM
Weird... that should have been one post.

Auzzy
09-29-2012, 08:09 PM
I just don't understand what Mariner sees in this guy. He absolutely should not be playing at this level. 2 apps for League Two Northampton Town does not a solid track record make. There are a dozen keepers in NASL/USL who would have been better options.

I wish journalists would ask some tougher questions from this team. There are so many obvious things begging to be asked about, yet most of the questions are unbelievably inane.

E.g., what interests me, is it true that Mariner gave Freddy Hall a 2-year contract?

Initial B
09-29-2012, 08:11 PM
So how do you figure the TFC propaganda machine will spin this one? I figure that they'll say the lads played with heart, but were undone by a hot Henri.

tfcleeds
09-29-2012, 08:12 PM
Weird... that should have been one post.

Ya, I noticed something you posted in another thread - should have been one post, but ended up being like 5, lol.

Island Man
09-29-2012, 08:13 PM
Kocic will be gone next year, Frei will be back. Freddy is okay for back up.

Alonso
09-29-2012, 08:15 PM
Ya, I noticed something you posted in another thread - should have been one post, but ended up being like 5, lol.


LOL yeah tongue in cheek right? g:D


That was probably me replying to 7 posts in a row like I tend to do...

Alonso
09-29-2012, 08:17 PM
Kocic will be gone next year, Frei will be back. Freddy is okay for back up.


Should be Kocic over Freddy any day of the week.

forza_tfc
09-29-2012, 08:17 PM
So how do you figure the TFC propaganda machine will spin this one? I figure that they'll say the lads played with heart, but were undone by a hot Henri.

They're just blowing wind at this point. Unless there are major changes, all I hear are pointless words.

SoccMan
09-29-2012, 08:20 PM
Fuck you Bernie,Anselmi,Cochrane,Mariner and MLSE for putting the final nail in the coffin of pro soccer in Toronto, the fans are gone and they are never coming back and this from a guy who has followed all the pro soccer teams in Toronto since the early 1970's. It's over guys they had their chance and fucked up a good thing in fucking credible!

Island Man
09-29-2012, 08:20 PM
Should be Kocic over Freddy any day of the week.
Talk about him wanting too much money, think he will be gone.

69Chevy396
09-29-2012, 08:21 PM
LOL yeah tongue in cheek right? g:D


That was probably me replying to 7 posts in a row like I tend to do...

I missed the game tonight. Actually, forgot all about it. Did I miss anything? Was this game on par with all the others played this season? How did Dero do? Or Gueverra? And that guy Dichio really entertains. Hope Edu makes it big in the big leagues.....oh, shit, forgot, that was another team, another time.

ag futbol
09-29-2012, 08:23 PM
Should be Kocic over Freddy any day of the week.
Agreed, freddy hall shouldn't be backing up shit. The pool keepers in MLS are better.

Could you imagine this year with Hall as the starter? We would have been scrambling for another keeper, he is a major liability

nonc
09-29-2012, 08:24 PM
Maund, Wiedeman, Hallx2 are just awful.

nothing cements 3 points for the opposition quite like this quintuplet of terror

Alonso
09-29-2012, 08:29 PM
Talk about him wanting too much money, think he will be gone.


More money as in more then the $45,000 (in that ball park I think, correct me if I'm wrong) ?

He deserves a pay raise for playing and carrying the team in goal for as long as he did and for the back up work that he did behind Frei. Not more then $100,000, but a pay raise for sure. He'd be worth it if it meant Hall wasn't the back up goalie.

This is the kind of class that the club treats it's players that bothers me.

It's a business for sure, I understand that. But the guy worked his way up, with great resolve and positive attitude, plays better then Hall and they won't reward him by keeping him around at a decent salary and so that we have a decent back up option in net?

tfcleeds
09-29-2012, 08:33 PM
What's truly sad, is thinking back to that 5-0 thrashing in 2009. How far have the Red Bulls come since then? And how far have we regressed from that point?

Auzzy
09-29-2012, 08:34 PM
Kocic will be gone next year, Frei will be back. Freddy is okay for back up.

Let's see what Freddy Hall's salary is. I'm worried he may not even be cheap. However, they definitely should not be wasting an international spot on a backup keeper that is that bad. There are plenty of good & cheap North American backup keepers available.

SirBobSaget
09-29-2012, 08:47 PM
Let's see what Freddy Hall's salary is. I'm worried he may not even be cheap. However, they definitely should not be wasting an international spot on a backup keeper that is that bad. There are plenty of good & cheap North American backup keepers available.

There is already an 18 yo Canadian GK signed and on the bench that can't be much worse!

azorean10
09-29-2012, 08:47 PM
Fuck you Bernie,Anselmi,Cochrane,Mariner and MLSE for putting the final nail in the coffin of pro soccer in Toronto, the fans are gone and they are never coming back and this from a guy who has followed all the pro soccer teams in Toronto since the early 1970's. It's over guys they had their chance and fucked up a good thing in fucking credible!

Hope you're wrong, BUT this has been the thing I've been most worried about for awhile now....I just hope they realize major changes need to be made in order to have a chance at winning some fans back. I heard Larsons' interview on the pregame radio show and he is/was convinced they are keeping Mariner, WOW, how stupid. BLOW IT UP, before all hope is lost.

Auzzy
09-29-2012, 08:52 PM
There is already an 18 yo Canadian GK signed and on the bench that can't be much worse!

I agree! LOL supposedly they signed Freddy to protect Quillan from getting shell-shocked & insecure due to poor results. I can't imagine how frustrated he is though, sitting on the bench & watching this crap. But even if that was their intent, and they knew Kocic might be missing some games due to his triplets on the way -- they could have done much better with any number of available US/Cdn keepers.

TOBOR !
09-29-2012, 08:58 PM
LOL yeah tongue in cheek right? g:D


That was probably me replying to 7 posts in a row like I tend to do...

No joke. :)

TOBOR !
09-29-2012, 09:02 PM
nothing cements 3 points for the opposition quite like this quintuplet of terror..

That should read "Quartet of ERROR"

TOBOR !
09-29-2012, 09:04 PM
Banner ideas :

Reign of Error

Dawning of a New Error

Parkdale
09-29-2012, 09:17 PM
We are maybe four players from getting out of the basement of the league. As for being competitive, we are very far off.

we are 4 good players away from getting out of the relegation zone (if such a thing existed).

Sadly, we could swap every player on our roster (as we've done many times over) and still not be in a playoff position. The 'Reign of Error' extends well beyond the guys on the field.

I really like that.... Reign of Error.

Suds
09-29-2012, 09:21 PM
That's awesome!

2007 - 2012
TFC Reign of Error

OgtheDim
09-29-2012, 09:42 PM
That Reign of Error thing might stick actually........

flatpicker
09-29-2012, 10:56 PM
I dig The Reign of Error

Catchy!

denime
09-29-2012, 11:06 PM
So how do you figure the TFC propaganda machine will spin this one? I figure that they'll say the lads played with heart, but were undone by a hot Henri.

INJURIES,propaganda started even before game with Larson's article today.

"If you want to be hypercritical then be hypercritical," Mariner said of TFC's winless stretch of 10 MLS contests. "We've probably got about 70% of our salary cap on the treatment table, which is never a good thing."

On Thursday, that number inched up when Toronto's bench boss announced that Designated Player Eric Hassli, who was brought in following a season-ending injury to Designated Player Danny Koevermans, will likely miss the rest of the season with an ankle injury.

Excuses? Sure, but excuses that shouldn't be completely ignored.
Add Torsten Frings, Stefan Frei, Doneil Henry and Milos Kocic, who will miss tonight's match due to family concerns, to the list and injuries have made what was already a shockingly poor team close to unwatchable.



Kocic is not injured WTF Larson is writing,?

nonc
09-29-2012, 11:19 PM
Reign of Error

Reign of Error

Reign of Error

Reign of Error

Reign of Error

yes.

narduch
09-29-2012, 11:31 PM
INJURIES,propaganda started even before game with Larson's article today.


Yup.

Never mind the fact that they traded for damaged goods in the case of Hassli. He was injured when the trade was consummated and now they are surprised he hasn't been much help.

nonc
09-29-2012, 11:36 PM
I just saw the 4th goal for the first time, Freddy Hall continues to dazzle with how atrocious he is at his position. The guy couldn't even stick in League 2 and was a free agent as European season was starting, shouldn't that have been a red flag, or at least been enough not to sign him multi-year?

Kocic is obviously not coming back. People have said how Hall is the third-string keeper..MLS clubs don't really have third string keepers, you have two + academy. That's why MLS has professional emergency keepers who get paid by the league, should the need arise. We had one of them earlier this year. Hall doesn't provide any cover to Frei next year should he get hurt, it should've always been Frei>Kocic, or Frei>Roberts. Hall and Maund is just a waste of 90K next year that may have gotten us a single quality depth player.

Ajax TFC
09-30-2012, 12:20 AM
they could have done much better with any number of available US/Cdn keepers.
What are you talking about? Bermuda is a fucking pipeline of talent just waiting to be tapped. Freddy Hall is the next van der Sar, he just needed to be discovered and get some guidance. :facepalm:

Ajax TFC
09-30-2012, 12:29 AM
INJURIES,propaganda started even before game with Larson's article today.


"If you want to be hypercritical then be hypercritical," Mariner said of TFC's winless stretch of 10 MLS contests. "We've probably got about 70% of our salary cap on the treatment table, which is never a good thing."
yeah, well that's always a possibility when 70% of your cap space is taken up by three players. Then when those three are 31, 33, and 35, the odds of them getting injured is among the highest in the team. Then factor in the fact that one of them was already injured when we traded a fucking first round pick for him...:facepalm:

Benficachop20
09-30-2012, 12:53 AM
oh god the mariner interview.... so silva wasn't injured, he just didn't like wat he was doing. Ah mariner, wat a great manager...

ag futbol
09-30-2012, 12:54 AM
I just saw the 4th goal for the first time, Freddy Hall continues to dazzle with how atrocious he is at his position. The guy couldn't even stick in League 2 and was a free agent as European season was starting, shouldn't that have been a red flag, or at least been enough not to sign him multi-year?

Kocic is obviously not coming back. People have said how Hall is the third-string keeper..MLS clubs don't really have third string keepers, you have two + academy. That's why MLS has professional emergency keepers who get paid by the league, should the need arise. We had one of them earlier this year. Hall doesn't provide any cover to Frei next year should he get hurt, it should've always been Frei>Kocic, or Frei>Roberts. Hall and Maund is just a waste of 90K next year that may have gotten us a single quality depth player.
Just goes to show you, how is Mariner making this team any better? Picking battles in areas that aren't even problems and ignoring his own players that are absolutely atrocious (Dunfield, Maund).

Mark my words, we are going to go 0-for next season, Mariner will eventually be fired but it will already be too late. Nobody will be watching.

TOBOR !
09-30-2012, 06:23 AM
I miss Aron.

OgtheDim
09-30-2012, 06:52 AM
At this rate, people are missing Mo........well for a minute or two.

fiji_blue
09-30-2012, 06:54 AM
Fuck you Bernie,Anselmi,Cochrane,Mariner and MLSE for putting the final nail in the coffin of pro soccer in Toronto, the fans are gone and they are never coming back and this from a guy who has followed all the pro soccer teams in Toronto since the early 1970's. It's over guys they had their chance and fucked up a good thing in fucking credible!
100% like

v00d00daddy
09-30-2012, 06:55 AM
Mariner has an excuse for everything.

1.-Referees.

2-Silva "didn't do enough work". Absolutely incredible. Workhorses that contribute nothing to this game (Eckersley, O'Dea, Dunfield) other than mistake after mistake and nothing is said about them. The only guy on the field for TFC that has any vision and he gets shit on for not working hard enough. Classic Canadian football mentality. I don't care if you're good and I don't care if you're bad....just as long as you put in the definition of what I consider "hard work".

I hope they put Dunfield's name up on the wall of fame.

3-Ball was out on the fourth goal

4-Reggie might have deserved a penalty. LOL

Mariner is a joke. Plain and simple.

Oh...and for those who haven't watched the post game interview....

He's said TFC is gonna win their last two home games because they owe the fans a victory.

LOL. All this talk of us staying home for the games against DC and Montreal. I'd prefer he stayed home. And he can invite Hall, Hall, Amerikwa, Weideman, Maund and Lambe over too.

Oldtimer
09-30-2012, 06:58 AM
INJURIES,propaganda started even before game with Larson's article today.


Kocic is not injured WTF Larson is writing,?

I think he means that Kocic is the is guy with "family concerns." He's implying that Kocic can't play because he's a dad of young children, which is insulting. Let's face it, despite being quite knowledgeable, at this point Larson is just a propaganda pipeline.

Auzzy
09-30-2012, 07:04 AM
^ I just don't think I can stomach watching the Mariner post-game interview this time. Thanks for the synopsis. About what I was expecting from him. Although, the quotes about Silva are shocking.

London
09-30-2012, 07:07 AM
watching mariner speak is equal to watching the baboons toss fecies at the zoo

and his gameplaning and tactics are equal to being hit with said fecies

Batman
09-30-2012, 07:14 AM
THis team has gone from bad to:










Completely Irrelevant

Suds
09-30-2012, 08:05 AM
I miss Aron.

I miss John Carver

Dv23
09-30-2012, 08:18 AM
I just came in here to say that I don't even watch the games anymore, and it makes me feel much better about life. I just watch the game in six and come read the last page or two of discussion on these threads. That way I don't have to waste 90+ minutes of my life on this crap.

rocktml
09-30-2012, 08:26 AM
Thierry Henry is a fucking BEAST!!!!

boban
09-30-2012, 08:58 AM
So let's get this straight, with 10 games and no win now it's injuries contributing to the losses, esp. since the Dp's are out.
But in the early part of the season when we did not win in 9 Frings was out and Danny boy was way out of form and out of shape, in addition to other players having injuries, it was excuse for the firing of TFC's most soccer knowledgeable individual?!!
This team never ceases to amaze me.

ensco
09-30-2012, 09:24 AM
Thierry Henry is a fucking BEAST!!!!

OK it sucks that we suck, but I just watched the highlights .... Holy shit. I am thunderstruck.

If you are discussing the game, that was the single greatest display of brilliance by an individual in an MLS game that I can remember. Kind of equivalent to Kobe dropping 81 points on the Raptors.

tfcleeds
09-30-2012, 09:30 AM
Thierry Henry is a fucking BEAST!!!!

It's all the easier to look like one when playing against TFC - not taking anything away from his performance though.

tfcleeds
09-30-2012, 09:33 AM
Mariner is absolutely clueless. I thought Silva was easily the best player on the pitch for TFC before he was taken off. I just don't know what to say anymore. Mariner should get in a time machine and go back to the 70s if he loves his tactics and footballing ideas so much.

ensco
09-30-2012, 09:55 AM
It's all the easier to look like one when playing against TFC - not taking anything away from his performance though.

Preki man-marked Henry to death in the two games we played against them in 2010 (I think it was Nane Joseph who had the job, not totally sure). Henry didn't do much (although he did score a nice goal in the second game, which we lost at BMO 4-1), but other guys did, and we lost both games by a combined score of 5-1. That 4-1 game had a big part in knocking us out of the playoff hunt, and probably started the wheels turning on firing Mo and Preki.

Beach_Red
09-30-2012, 10:14 AM
So let's get this straight, with 10 games and no win now it's injuries contributing to the losses, esp. since the Dp's are out.
But in the early part of the season when we did not win in 9 Frings was out and Danny boy was way out of form and out of shape, in addition to other players having injuries, it was excuse for the firing of TFC's most soccer knowledgeable individual?!!
This team never ceases to amaze me.

Naw, these decisions are very consistent with this management style. They never want underlings who are too knowledgeable, they'd be too threatened. They probably fired Winter because he told them the truth and didn't suck up enough and they like Mariner because he parrots the company line back to them. It has very little to do with wins and losses.

Most of us have probably had bad bosses and seen this mentality in action.

Ajax TFC
09-30-2012, 11:25 AM
Just goes to show you, how is Mariner making this team any better? Picking battles in areas that aren't even problems and ignoring his own players that are absolutely atrocious (Dunfield, Maund).

This is exactly it. He can't stop singing Dunfield's praises, and at the same time benches Avila and subs Silva for not working hard enough on the field, and calls out Frings for committing to a tackle. Like For fuck sake at least he tries to win the ball and doesn't back away form players out of fear of looking like an ass if they get passed like Dunfield.

jloome
09-30-2012, 12:20 PM
Mariner is absolutely clueless. I thought Silva was easily the best player on the pitch for TFC before he was taken off. I just don't know what to say anymore. Mariner should get in a time machine and go back to the 70s if he loves his tactics and footballing ideas so much.

I'll gladly pile on the fire Mariner bandwagon, but he was right about Silva, he was shit in the first half. He played the offensive end ONLY. Some plays, he didn't even bother to track back. His positioning was horrible and it's entirely clear he's not ready to be a two-way midfielder at MLS level. Again, he's a rookie who was primarily an offensive player in college, so this isn't surprising. In MLS typically, he'd become a winger, a hole player or a striker.

We use him as a two-way mid, then pull him when his defence is lousy.

jloome
09-30-2012, 12:24 PM
Naw, these decisions are very consistent with this management style. They never want underlings who are too knowledgeable, they'd be too threatened. They probably fired Winter because he told them the truth and didn't suck up enough and they like Mariner because he parrots the company line back to them. It has very little to do with wins and losses.

Most of us have probably had bad bosses and seen this mentality in action.

I'd go a step further and say that with Winter, certain other front office people had no pull; he didn't speak great English and probably had little time for listening to non-soccer people (as should be the case); So anyone below Anselmi was basically relegated to ... well, doing the jobs they were hired for, whatever the fuck those are, instead of empire building by dividing and conquering.

EDIT: Again, not a Winter endorsement. They weren't motivated under him, either.

v00d00daddy
09-30-2012, 01:06 PM
I'll gladly pile on the fire Mariner bandwagon, but he was right about Silva, he was shit in the first half. He played the offensive end ONLY. Some plays, he didn't even bother to track back. His positioning was horrible and it's entirely clear he's not ready to be a two-way midfielder at MLS level. Again, he's a rookie who was primarily an offensive player in college, so this isn't surprising. In MLS typically, he'd become a winger, a hole player or a striker.

We use him as a two-way mid, then pull him when his defence is lousy.

While I agree that Silva didn't play the defensive side of the ball enough, I totally disagree with his substitution and motivation behind it.

Silva has a lazy half and he's subbed off at half time and called out publicly after the game?

That's all well and good if it has been a practice that Mariner has employed with some consistency, but nothing could be further from the truth.

Maund, Lambe, Amerikwa and Weideman have all had several halves and even entire matches where they've been atrocious.

Hell...I haven't seen Maund put in one influential half. The guy does nothing of substance on the field.

When's the last time he was called out? How many times has he started?

Mariner is a dinosaur who coaches like most of the coaches I had growing up. Work rate and athleticism are the pillars of his game...regardless whether or not they come with anything more.

Silva was literally the only guy on the field with vision and touch last night. (As he is most nights)

And his reward for a sub par half is to be subbed and called out.

I hope he told Mariner to fuck himself at half and gets to watch the last two games of the year from the bench.

Mariner doesn't value players of his style and, as such, he doesn't deserve Silva.

Brooker
09-30-2012, 01:24 PM
I hope he told Mariner to fuck himself at half and gets to watch the last two games of the year from the bench.


I hope none of our players would tell our coach to fuck off.

TFC John
09-30-2012, 01:44 PM
Silva was literally the only guy on the field with vision and touch last night. (As he is most nights)




There was another guy out there with some vision and touch. Unfortunately he was playing for the other team. You may have noticed him. He was involved in all of their goals. I wonder what Mariner would say about Henry's work rate. Work rate and production are two different things. Vision and touch are what allows one without the other.

Auzzy
09-30-2012, 01:47 PM
Yes it's nuts to pull Silva & call him out personally, when so many other players have a free pass to play like shit & stay on the field again and again, with no public comment from Mariner.

But even worse, to pull Silva and put on Wiedeman instead of Avila???? Even Mariner's chief career apologist, Kurt Larson, questioned that on Twitter. Wiedeman has minimal strength, size and skill, simply cannot punch through a half-decent defense. Maybe he runs around more and "tries hard" but I didn't see much from Wiedeman defensively either.

ag futbol
09-30-2012, 01:50 PM
Hell...I haven't seen Maund put in one influential half. The guy does nothing of substance.
QFT

Can someone, anyone, please explain to me what he's supposed to be accomplishing out there? If his role is always being behind the play and trying not to do anything, he's all-world at that.

I don't think I have watched a central midfielder at any club who has such little impact on the game. This guy gets to perform like this on a weekly basis while Stinson and Cordon can't dress and Avila sits on the bench???

I don't think you even need to be trained as a soccer player to do what he does. He just jogs around in circles in the centre of the field. Completely useless

Greatest Ripoff
09-30-2012, 02:23 PM
QFT

Can someone, anyone, please explain to me what he's supposed to be accomplishing out there? If his role is always being behind the play and trying not to do anything, he's all-world at that.

I don't think I have watched a central midfielder at any club who has such little impact on the game. This guy gets to perform like this on a weekly basis while Stinson and Cordon can't dress and Avila sits on the bench???

I don't think you even need to be trained as a soccer player to do what he does. He just jogs around in circles in the centre of the field. Completely useless

This drives me fucking nuts. How can Maund consistently keep Stinson out of lineup? It's a fucking joke.

Richard
09-30-2012, 02:50 PM
We are witnessing Preki part 2. Its no supprise the skilled players have been marginalized or cast off as these players generally have different ego's and work rate, the have "swagger" which rubs certain individuals the wrong way.

Aaron Maund who is a rookie like Silva gets no flack from Mariner by producing absolutly nothing, yet Silva who can win you games gets called out. It tells me that Maund is "Good Boy" while Silva may be outspoken and recieves harsh treament.

JusTrollinBy
09-30-2012, 02:52 PM
I hope none of our players would tell our coach to fuck off.

Nope! And I certainly hope that none of our coaches refer to our players as "idiots"...

Oh wait...


Just when you think this team has hit rock bottom... they drive us deeper into the abyss!

I applaud everyone who finds little shards of silver lining flakes that fall off this money ship.

I would love to see things through rose coloured shades, as I have tried my best to be patient and positive since day 1... but this... THIS "professional" sports team / organization is absolutely disgusting and needs to be gutted like a rotting fish!

Injuries aside... are the players playing now supposed to be our future? I mean seriously, the difference in quality is too great and if these guys are supposed to be professional athletes and players, it shouldn't take this long to man up and improve your quality of play.

Which leads me to believe these guys just “don't have it”, nor will they "get it" with this type of hoofball system or maybe in ANY system. The quality wasn't there with Winter either but at least I didn't mind losing as much under a possession system than whatever the hell they are doing now.

There was no reason to not let Winter go deeper into the season, instead people panicked and called for his head, so MLSE quickly replaced him with Mariner (I understand many applauded this move). MLSE hastily tried writing a wrong... with a bigger wrong, and now we're deeply paying for it!

The longer these donkeys run TFC, the smaller the window to attract top talent gets.

I'm sure players / agents talk amongst each other and there's no way in hell if I was a decent player would I want to bury myself in this organization if I learned about TFC's internal dirty laundry. Perhaps Mariner will pull off some Burke-Mind Tricks and entice some quality players to join his “special family”... Dunfield of course being his favourite son.

I dunno, I can't help to feel that MLSE is slapping us around with a wet rotting fish... and as a fan from day 1, having countless BMO beers, purchasing merchandise and joining in the singing in Sec.115... I can't help to feel a bit gang raped, naked and laughed at by the “great minds” at TFC / MLSE as they hide in the dark, count their cash and cackle like the Joker as they continue rob us blind!

Here's hoping for a brighter future! Cuz fuck... we as fans certainly deserve one!

:scarf::flare::drum::drinking::scarf:

nonc
09-30-2012, 03:15 PM
We are witnessing Preki part 2. Its no supprise the skilled players have been marginalized or cast off as these players generally have different ego's and work rate, the have "swagger" which rubs certain individuals the wrong way.

Aaron Maund who is a rookie like Silva gets no flack from Mariner by producing absolutly nothing, yet Silva who can win you games gets called out. It tells me that Maund is "Good Boy" while Silva may be outspoken and recieves harsh treament.

haha it's so funny. Maund is on a level of bad that not even Dunfield can aspire to, and the only acknowledgment from Mariner is putting him on the field for 90 minutes.

Johnson's goal was spectacular, a legitimate 35 yards, not a 'Beckham 35' from Portland which was clearly under 30 yards. It's the type of goal you could candidate for (but not worthy of) goal of the year. Criminal that he'll probably lose GOTW voting, though Henry's effort was pretty in its own right.

azorean10
09-30-2012, 03:20 PM
Nope! And I certainly hope that none of our coaches refer to our players as "idiots"...

Oh wait...


Just when you think this team has hit rock bottom... they drive us deeper into the abyss!

I applaud everyone who finds little shards of silver lining flakes that fall off this money ship.

I would love to see things through rose coloured shades, as I have tried my best to be patient and positive since day 1... but this... THIS "professional" sports team / organization is absolutely disgusting and needs to be gutted like a rotting fish!

Injuries aside... are the players playing now supposed to be our future? I mean seriously, the difference in quality is too great and if these guys are supposed to be professional athletes and players, it shouldn't take this long to man up and improve your quality of play.

Which leads me to believe these guys just “don't have it”, nor will they "get it" with this type of hoofball system or maybe in ANY system. The quality wasn't there with Winter either but at least I didn't mind losing as much under a possession system than whatever the hell they are doing now.

There was no reason to not let Winter go deeper into the season, instead people panicked and called for his head, so MLSE quickly replaced him with Mariner (I understand many applauded this move). MLSE hastily tried writing a wrong... with a bigger wrong, and now we're deeply paying for it!

The longer these donkeys run TFC, the smaller the window to attract top talent gets.

I'm sure players / agents talk amongst each other and there's no way in hell if I was a decent player would I want to bury myself in this organization if I learned about TFC's internal dirty laundry. Perhaps Mariner will pull off some Burke-Mind Tricks and entice some quality players to join his “special family”... Dunfield of course being his favourite son.

I dunno, I can't help to feel that MLSE is slapping us around with a wet rotting fish... and as a fan from day 1, having countless BMO beers, purchasing merchandise and joining in the singing in Sec.115... I can't help to feel a bit gang raped, naked and laughed at by the “great minds” at TFC / MLSE as they hide in the dark, count their cash and cackle like the Joker as they continue rob us blind!

Here's hoping for a brighter future! Cuz fuck... we as fans certainly deserve one!

:scarf::flare::drum::drinking::scarf:

BRILLIANT !...What are they waiting for ? BLOW IT UP ! I can't believe they are actually thinking about bringing back Mariner! If they do, just , well, WOW.. I give up.

jloome
09-30-2012, 03:39 PM
While I agree that Silva didn't play the defensive side of the ball enough, I totally disagree with his substitution and motivation behind it.

Silva has a lazy half and he's subbed off at half time and called out publicly after the game?

That's all well and good if it has been a practice that Mariner has employed with some consistency, but nothing could be further from the truth.

Maund, Lambe, Amerikwa and Weideman have all had several halves and even entire matches where they've been atrocious.

Hell...I haven't seen Maund put in one influential half. The guy does nothing of substance on the field.

When's the last time he was called out? How many times has he started?

Mariner is a dinosaur who coaches like most of the coaches I had growing up. Work rate and athleticism are the pillars of his game...regardless whether or not they come with anything more.

Silva was literally the only guy on the field with vision and touch last night. (As he is most nights)

And his reward for a sub par half is to be subbed and called out.

I hope he told Mariner to fuck himself at half and gets to watch the last two games of the year from the bench.

Mariner doesn't value players of his style and, as such, he doesn't deserve Silva.

As I said, I'm not defending him, just that Silva was bad in the first half. If you put a player in a role for which he's not suited, that's what happens. Why, when we don't have a real striker up front, is Silva (a natural hole player) not there instead of Amerikwa, for example? He has five goals this season and can obviously finish really well. In fact, I'd play him there full-time (or as a number 10 hole player).

spe18
09-30-2012, 03:58 PM
Yes it's nuts to pull Silva & call him out personally, when so many other players have a free pass to play like shit & stay on the field again and again, with no public comment from Mariner.

But even worse, to pull Silva and put on Wiedeman instead of Avila???? Even Mariner's chief career apologist, Kurt Larson, questioned that on Twitter. Wiedeman has minimal strength, size and skill, simply cannot punch through a half-decent defense. Maybe he runs around more and "tries hard" but I didn't see much from Wiedeman defensively either.

I thought Silva came off because he had an injury?

Suds
09-30-2012, 04:45 PM
I thought Silva came off because he had an injury?

Mariner was asked if Silva was subbed due to injury. He said no, he subbed him because he did not like the way he was playing. (paraphrased)

TorontoGooner
09-30-2012, 05:34 PM
I hope none of our players would tell our coach to fuck off.

Sorry mate, but I hope he would. It would show the passion and desire that Mariner supposedly craves. I for one would certainly let an imbecile of Mariner's ilk know the news if he called me out like that. He's a jumped up prick who thinks he's the next big thing because his mates happen to run the club. He can fuck off back to Plymouth for all I care. That's where he peaked.

Paul Mariner is a bully. I won't be giving MLSE another cent until he leaves

Ajax TFC
09-30-2012, 05:48 PM
He's a jumped up prick who thinks he's the next big thing because his mates happen to run the club.
No, he thinks he's the next big thing because he played for Sir Bobby Robson

denime
09-30-2012, 06:06 PM
I hope none of our players would tell our coach to fuck off.

To late it happened already,1st was Plata,2nd was Frings

TorontoGooner
09-30-2012, 06:51 PM
No, he thinks he's the next big thing because he played for Sir Bobby Robson

Haha well yes, that as well! I agree!

DoubleUp
09-30-2012, 06:54 PM
Keeping Mariner is a mistake.

Tactically he is a dimwit, and the Uk football model is dead....The end!

We should see if we could lure
Octavio zambrano back to Mls and see if we can get marc dos santos as the general manager.This is a recipe for good football imo.

DoubleUp
09-30-2012, 06:55 PM
Keeping Mariner is a mistake.

Tactically he is a dimwit, and the Uk football model is dead....The end!

We should see if we could lure
Octavio zambrano back to Mls and see if we can get marc dos santos as the general manager.

This is a recipe for good football imo.


both well connected down south and work in football hotbeds

69Chevy396
09-30-2012, 07:26 PM
I hope none of our players would tell our coach to fuck off. I agee, that is far to kind. They should be kicking him in the balls instead.

spe18
09-30-2012, 07:29 PM
Mariner was asked if Silva was subbed due to injury. He said no, he subbed him because he did not like the way he was playing. (paraphrased)

Of course, if I had watched the clip of the interview after the game before posting, I wouldn't have had to ask the question! But ya, you're pretty much dead on, saying he took him off as he felt he didn't do enough work. Yup, another player call out.

Oldtimer
09-30-2012, 08:11 PM
Tactically he is a dimwit, and the Uk football model is dead....The end!


The modern UK football model is not dead.

However, the 1970's British model is dead... except at TFC.

DoubleUp
09-30-2012, 08:34 PM
The modern UK football model is not dead.

However, the 1970's British model is dead... except at TFC.


The national team constantly under performers, the top clubs(barring united) are led by foreign managers, the top players in the Premier league are foreigners.


The closest thing to a true representation of modern UK football and it talent is liverpool, and we all know how that story is going.

I have given some examples That on a strictly footballing level, UK football is dead.

If we are talking Dollars and cents then I agree, its in good standing.



Give me examples of why you believe modern uk football is not.

TFC07
09-30-2012, 08:45 PM
TFC model was attacking orientated soccer, so we need someone who can guide that type of soccer that a lot of us want to see TFC playing.

On a side note, I can't wait the day when Canada forms its own identity in soccer world (Canadian "football" model). I am kind of sick of reading and hearing these foreign models here and talking to soccer fans in this country about it.

P.S. I didn't watch the game since I was out all night (Nuit Blanche). What a good choice I made. lol

cmonyoureds
09-30-2012, 08:46 PM
Talk about him wanting too much money, think he will be gone.

Pure speculation but I bet Kocic told them a long time ago he ain't coming back. C'mon, who in their right mind would sign for this circus at this point?

Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if we draft first overall and put into motion the very first MLS holdout a la Eric Lindros!!!!

123 elite
09-30-2012, 08:55 PM
The national team constantly under performers, the top clubs(barring united) are led by foreign managers, the top players in the Premier league are foreigners.


The closest thing to a true representation of modern UK football and it talent is liverpool, and we all know how that story is going.

I have given some examples That on a strictly footballing level, UK football is dead.

If we are talking Dollars and cents then I agree, its in good standing.





^ and recent world cup qualification result show that

Brooker
09-30-2012, 09:43 PM
Sorry mate, but I hope he would. It would show the passion and desire that Mariner supposedly craves. I for one would certainly let an imbecile of Mariner's ilk know the news if he called me out like that. He's a jumped up prick who thinks he's the next big thing because his mates happen to run the club. He can fuck off back to Plymouth for all I care. That's where he peaked.

Paul Mariner is a bully. I won't be giving MLSE another cent until he leaves

Meh. I'd hope Silva would be the bigger man and have some class.


I agee, that is far to kind. They should be kicking him in the balls instead.

Disagree with the coach, think he's an idiot or inept (he obviously is) but Silva should act like an adult.


To late it happened already,1st was Plata,2nd was Frings

Plata and Frings told Mariner off? I didn't know. Link?

I want him fired just as much as anybody around here and fans can spew as much vitriol at him as they please... but our players are held to a different standard, aren't they?

trane
09-30-2012, 09:56 PM
The national team constantly under performers, the top clubs(barring united) are led by foreign managers, the top players in the Premier league are foreigners.


The closest thing to a true representation of modern UK football and it talent is liverpool, and we all know how that story is going.

I have given some examples That on a strictly footballing level, UK football is dead.

If we are talking Dollars and cents then I agree, its in good standing.



Give me examples of why you believe modern uk football is not.

Yes, English football is as dead, as Italian football was dead last year before the euro's. I never understand why people like to talk in such generalities. I agree with some points, to a point ( EPL is not realy English league as it is and is hurting national game) but to say Englishfootball is dead is just bull. There are 10 managers in the UK game I would take to run this club, and hundreds of players that could make TFC better.

Our problems are well beyond this. We have an FO, that sets a direction, finds a person to lead us in that direction, and when then person is not working out, they do not find a better person to keep that club into the same direction, but hire the fucking underling of that person , who shares in the blame of the shit start, and how decides that a new direction is needed, and who a sinks the ship, but still has the nerves to talk shit and make excuses. FUCK YOU MLSE FUCK YOU MARINER. Yes I do no more about footy then you, clearly. Please proof me wrong (please), so far you have failed, and failed and failed and failed and failed and failed and are setting yourself up for one more failure.

Danny Dichio would have been a better hire, even it it would have been just pandering, after six years he is about the only bright spot the club had, that most people agree with. He is the only person associated with the club that has any credibility in my eyes. I need someone I can trust at the helm of this ship.

ag futbol
09-30-2012, 10:02 PM
The national team constantly under performers, the top clubs(barring united) are led by foreign managers, the top players in the Premier league are foreigners.


The closest thing to a true representation of modern UK football and it talent is liverpool, and we all know how that story is going.

I have given some examples That on a strictly footballing level, UK football is dead.

If we are talking Dollars and cents then I agree, its in good standing.



Give me examples of why you believe modern uk football is not.
Let's keep this on-topic... no point getting sidetracked about the state of football in the UK. This is taking us all the way back to year one and two when people would take the piss about we need more players or a manager from country X.

The point is we need a manager that understands the modern game and is capable of succeeding in MLS.

DoubleUp
09-30-2012, 10:04 PM
Yes, English football is as dead, as Italian football was dead last year before the euro's. I never understand why people like to talk in such generalities. I agree with some points, to a point ( EPL is not realy English league as it is and is hurting national game) but to say Englishfootball is dead is just bull. There are 10 managers in the UK game I would take to run this club, and hundreds of players that could make TFC better.

Our problems are well beyond this. We have an FO, that sets a direction, finds a person to lead us in that direction, and when then person is not working out, they do not find a better person to keep that club into the same direction, but hire the fucking underling of that person , who shares in the blame of the shit start, and how decides that a new direction is needed, and who a sinks the ship, but still has the nerves to talk shit and make excuses. FUCK YOU MLSE FUCK YOU MARINER. Yes I do no more about footy then you, clearly. Please proof me wrong (please), so far you have failed, and failed and failed and failed and failed and failed and are setting yourself up for one more failure.

Danny Dichio would have been a better hire, even it it would have been just pandering, after six years he is about the only bright spot the club had, that most people agree with. He is the only person associated with the club that has any credibility in my eyes. I need someone I can trust at the helm of this ship.

at the grassroots level it is dead.

Italian football is dead financially, but as far on football perspective.

Italian football proves its self to be ever evolving and constantly punching above it weight.

Ofcourse there is Uk managers that would do well here, but if iam taking any other european to be manager it would have to be and should of been an Italian because they produce the most successful managers en mass in the sport.

and are always at the forefront of tactical play

denime
09-30-2012, 10:05 PM
Yes, English football is as dead, as Italian football was dead last year before the euro's. I never understand why people like to talk in such generalities. I agree with some points, to a point ( EPL is not realy English league as it is and is hurting national game) but to say Englishfootball is dead is just bull. There are 10 managers in the UK game I would take to run this club, and hundreds of players that could make TFC better.

Our problems are well beyond this. We have an FO, that sets a direction, finds a person to lead us in that direction, and when then person is not working out, they do not find a better person to keep that club into the same direction, but hire the fucking underling of that person , who shares in the blame of the shit start, and how decides that a new direction is needed, and who a sinks the ship, but still has the nerves to talk shit and make excuses. FUCK YOU MLSE FUCK YOU MARINER. Yes I do no more about footy then you, clearly. Please proof me wrong (please), so far you have failed, and failed and failed and failed and failed and failed and are setting yourself up for one more failure.

Danny Dichio would have been a better hire, even it it would have been just pandering, after six years he is about the only bright spot the club had, that most people agree with. He is the only person associated with the club that has any credibility in my eyes. I need someone I can trust at the helm of this ship.

I approve this message !!



and, Dichio is smart enough to know what idiots are running TFC right now and he is staying as academy coach until baboons from FO are gone.

Oldtimer
09-30-2012, 10:15 PM
at the grassroots level it is dead.

Italian football is dead financially, but as far on football perspective.

Italian football proves its self to be ever evolving and constantly punching above it weight.

Ofcourse there is Uk managers that would do well here, but if iam taking any other european to be manager it would have to be and should of been an Italian because they produce the most successful managers en mass in the sport.

and are always at the forefront of tactical play

You're talking in excessive generalizations.

I've seen some innovative play in the UK. Yes, a lot of it (not all) is due to cross-fertilization from foreign players and coaches, but that foreign influence is the modern UK game.

Ye olde kick and run longball (that I was coached in during the early 70's) is definitely dead and should be long buried. If that is what you mean by the "UK game" then we are in agreement.

FWIW Italian calcio has evolved significantly too. We've seen the influence of Brazilian players in the league, and we've seen managers take a more attacking game than was traditionally done. It's not a bad thing, change is part of the game.

No one uses the old "WM" formation anymore. Using 100% man-marking is gone too. Tactics change and evolve. Only the worst coaches of the worst teams never change with the times.

We have one of the worst coaches in MLS and one of the worst D1 teams in the world. No surprise, then, that we are using horribly dated tactics.

DoubleUp
09-30-2012, 10:31 PM
Let's keep this on-topic... no point getting sidetracked about the state of football in the UK. This is taking us all the way back to year one and two when people would take the piss about we need more players or a manager from country X.

The point is we need a manager that understands the modern game and is capable of succeeding in MLS.

Players are one thing! (even though the less expensive european player are the more technically gifted)spain,portugal,Italy

but as far as Managers! this club has gone out of its way to hire UK coaches or ex players who were involved in that footballing structure, even undermining none Uk candidates.


Now if italy has produced some of the most successful and forward thinking managers in the sport, why wouldnt we have atleast tried in the last 7 years to hire somebody that could teach our team/backline to stop leaking goals and tactically teach the game properly........no instead we promote jim Brennan to help the backline:facepalm:.


We hire mariner as player development, when if we gave his salary to somebody qualified and linked to south america we would have a montero or a higuin walkin through our doors every six months.(who I actually spotted as a potential player for tfc two seasons ago when he was still in argentina)Iamjustsaying!

but no we get an overpayed(uk based)richard eckersley, do you know what type of player we could bring in on his salary.

This is not a slight on the people who come from that part of the world, but their brand of football from a technical and tactical standpoint I dont buy it.

ag futbol
09-30-2012, 10:35 PM
Meh. I'd hope Silva would be the bigger man and have some class.

I'd always hope the players would keep their heads about them, but it's not always something you can count on... you'd expect the manager to have superior control over their temperament compared to a player, because let's face it a lot of guys playing are nuts.

It takes a pretty strong personality to go far in sports and a lot of guys carry around a big ego with them. Coach presses the wrong buttons with the wrong player in a dressing room, the player is going to hammer him right back. Players don't get signed for being nice people or for being reasonable, they get signed to win games. There are a lot of teams out there counting on borderline sociopaths to win every weekend, and the coaches have to run high-wire acts to keep their personalities in check.

I'd prefer if our players were nice, but more than likely I'd expect them to be difficult, so I expect the coach to be able to deal with that.

ag futbol
09-30-2012, 10:45 PM
Players are one thing! (even though the less expensive european player are the more technically gifted)spain,portugal,Italy

but as far as Managers! this club has gone out of its way to hire UK coaches or ex players who were involved in that footballing structure, even undermining none Uk candidates.


Now if italy has produced some of the most successful and forward thinking managers in the sport, why wouldnt we have atleast tried in the last 7 years to hire somebody that could teach our team/backline to stop leaking goals and tactically teach the game properly........no instead we promote jim Brennan to help the backline:facepalm:.


We hire mariner as player development, when if we gave his salary to somebody qualified and linked to south america we would have a montero or a higuin walkin through our doors every six months.(who I actually spotted as a potential player for tfc two seasons ago when he was still in argentina)Iamjustsaying!

but no we get an overpayed(uk based)richard eckersley, do you know what type of player we could bring in on his salary.

This is not a slight on the people who come from that part of the world, but their brand of football from a technical and tactical standpoint I dont buy it.
It's too large of a population to tar-and-feather with one brush. As someone pointed out, there are plenty of capable managers and players within the UK that could help this team. The economics of their game makes it unlikely they show up here, but in the event someone good comes along I'm not going to turn my nose up at it.

We sign somebody to run this team, I'm concerned about the type of football they play, their ability to find the talent we need, and the understanding of this league. I do not give a solitary fuck what their passport says.

Ajax TFC
09-30-2012, 11:12 PM
Players are one thing! (even though the less expensive european player are the more technically gifted)spain,portugal,Italy

but as far as Managers! this club has gone out of its way to hire UK coaches or ex players who were involved in that footballing structure, even undermining none Uk candidates.


Now if italy has produced some of the most successful and forward thinking managers in the sport, why wouldnt we have atleast tried in the last 7 years to hire somebody that could teach our team/backline to stop leaking goals and tactically teach the game properly........no instead we promote jim Brennan to help the backline:facepalm:.

to be fair, that problem doesn't start and end with the club. A lot of "football people" in this country are pro-UK bias as well. When Winter was hired it seemed like everyone in the media expected him to fail because he was a foreigner, and they all pointed to how Ruud Gullit failed at LA. Even when TFC won they were skeptical. Then the very day that Paul Mariner was hired they all raved about how he is the second coming. When he wins, it's a signal of how great he is, when he loses it's not his fault because he's so great. Yet he's also a foreigner and they have no problem with that!

It's too large of a population to tar-and-feather with one brush. As someone pointed out, there are plenty of capable managers and players within the UK that could help this team. The economics of their game makes it unlikely they show up here, but in the event someone good comes along I'm not going to turn my nose up at it.

I have no doubt that there are UK coaches who could do great things with this team, but I'm also sure that there are coaches in the GTA who could do a better job running the team than anyone we've ever had. The problem here is that there is a conservative English bias among so called soccer experts in this country/province, and there is also clearly a bias in the upper management of this team (who are probably influenced by the "experts" since none of them actually know a thing about soccer in the first place)

DoubleUp
09-30-2012, 11:15 PM
It's too large of a population to tar-and-feather with one brush. As someone pointed out, there are plenty of capable managers and players within the UK that could help this team. The economics of their game makes it unlikely they show up here, but in the event someone good comes along I'm not going to turn my nose up at it.

We sign somebody to run this team, I'm concerned about the type of football they play, their ability to find the talent we need, and the understanding of this league. I do not give a solitary fuck what their passport says.

Your missing the whole point trying to be bi-partisan.

The amount of money we`ve thrown away from a mangerial standpoint we could have hired somebody from one the more troubled economic european nations(spain,portugal.Italy) with far more pedigree than what we`ve seen so far.

Look at any upstart/rebuild nation/club they always go to the nations that are known for producing good football, for managers and technical directors. japan, Russia, china..the list goes on and on.

when it comes to football the Uk doesnt export anything unless its to north america, off the top of my head macclarn is the only uk export of note coaching outside the uk.

Even every bodies favourite north american manager has turned seattle into a faux south american side.

We can go back and forth but while we continue to do so, the league is passing us by.

DoubleUp
09-30-2012, 11:18 PM
to be fair, that problem doesn't start and end with the club. A lot of "football people" in this country are pro-UK bias as well. When Winter was hired it seemed like everyone in the media expected him to fail because he was a foreigner, and they all pointed to how Ruud Gullit failed at LA. Even when TFC won they were skeptical. Then the very day that Paul Mariner was hired they all raved about how he is the second coming. When he wins, it's a signal of how great he is, when he loses it's not his fault because he's so great. Yet he's also a foreigner and they have no problem with that!

I have no doubt that there are UK coaches who could do great things with this team, but I'm also sure that there are coaches in the GTA who could do a better job running the team than anyone we've ever had. The problem here is that there is a conservative English bias among so called soccer experts in this country/province, and there is also clearly a bias in the upper management of this team (who are probably influenced by the "experts" since none of them actually know a thing about soccer in the first place)


Atleast somebody can clearly read between the lines.

and once again for the record I have nothing against the people from the united kingdom, I just think from a footballing standpoint that should be the last place you look for managers and players(mainly based on the wage)

nonc
09-30-2012, 11:41 PM
^Perfectly emphasis the detachment between the city of Toronto and the inept old boys club of MLSE + the bureaucratic media.

It's unfortunate how bad the timing was for Dasovic to interim.

ag futbol
09-30-2012, 11:42 PM
Your missing the whole point trying to be bi-partisan.

The amount of money we`ve thrown away from a mangerial standpoint we could have hired somebody from one the more troubled economic european nations(spain,portugal.Italy) with far more pedigree than what we`ve seen so far.

Look at any upstart/rebuild nation/club they always go to the nations that are known for producing good football, for managers and technical directors. japan, Russia, china..the list goes on and on.

when it comes to football the Uk doesnt export anything unless its to north america, off the top of my head macclarn is the only uk export of note coaching outside the uk.

Even every bodies favourite north american manager has turned seattle into a faux south american side.

We can go back and forth but while we continue to do so, the league is passing us by.
I acknowledged the economics of doing business in England in my last post.. not sure why you are harping on that. Again, not the first place I'd look, but options should be kept open. There's more than a handful of English players in this league who are productive and efficient economically.

Your idea of bringing in a foreign manager from these other countries isn't new, it's been tried before. A lot of guys have failed, the foreign MLS head-coach graveyard is quite distinguished. It's a different skill set to work over here and some guys just come in thinking they are going to break the system, but it inevitably breaks them. You're more likely to get success with a candidate that has some exposure to North America, I don't see why we'd try to make things complicated.





I have no doubt that there are UK coaches who could do great things with this team, but I'm also sure that there are coaches in the GTA who could do a better job running the team than anyone we've ever had. The problem here is that there is a conservative English bias among so called soccer experts in this country/province, and there is also clearly a bias in the upper management of this team (who are probably influenced by the "experts" since none of them actually know a thing about soccer in the first place)
Yep, I agree. There's a lot of cultural ties with people giving the management team a free pass, but let's face it the same issue would exist with different nationalities as well, just to a lesser extent because the population is smaller.

DoubleUp
10-01-2012, 12:23 AM
I acknowledged the economics of doing business in England in my last post.. not sure why you are harping on that. Again, not the first place I'd look, but options should be kept open. There's more than a handful of English players in this league who are productive and efficient economically.

Your idea of bringing in a foreign manager from these other countries isn't new, it's been tried before. A lot of guys have failed, the foreign MLS head-coach graveyard is quite distinguished. It's a different skill set to work over here and some guys just come in thinking they are going to break the system, but it inevitably breaks them. You're more likely to get success with a candidate that has some exposure to North America, I don't see why we'd try to make things complicated.


This was the whole arguement that allowed north american mariner to become manager.

I honestly believe if Winter was given a competent sporting director, we wouldnt be having this discussion, and if you read my intial post I presented two canidates versed in the north american game that would be able to build us something that is worth paying for.

My overall observation is that there is a bias in this club when it pertains to the United kingdom, everybody besides maybe de klerk(whos disappeared) and rongen are from that mold of football.

A mold thats hasnt done anything to prove why we should rely so heavily on its expertise, especially pertaining to the development of youth.

Now we are stuck with a tactical and technical dimwit, because its the comfortable choice.

And only Toronto football fans that come from all walks of life suffer.

trane
10-01-2012, 09:11 AM
Ajax, said it the problem is that this club is run by people that do not now football, Enligsh, Italian, Spanish, Dutch or anything else. They simply do not know football, they must take advise from experts, who in this country have a pro-English bias for the most part ( the second current would be the Italian bias-but that is not in the forefront right now) and they see that the most popular league in the world is the EPL, so the English game is their devault. But they do not know David Moyes ( I know he is scotish) from Paul Mariner or Mo ( yes also scotish) from Harry (Redknapp). Or Julian Lescott from Julian Lenon for that matter.

Beach_Red
10-01-2012, 09:21 AM
Ajax, said it the problem is that this club is run by people that do not now football, Enligsh, Italian, Spanish, Dutch or anything else. They simply do not know football, they must take advise from experts, who in this country have a pro-English bias for the most part ( the second current would be the Italian bias-but that is not in the forefront right now) and they see that the most popular league in the world is the EPL, so the English game is their devault. But they do not know David Moyes ( I know he is scotish) from Paul Mariner or Mo ( yes also scotish) from Harry (Redknapp). Or Julian Lescott from Julian Lenon for that matter.

I would love to see the report Klinsmann gave them and also have them tell us why they abandonded it so early.

trane
10-01-2012, 09:26 AM
^ Agreed.


By the way I wrote Julian Lescott, but it is accutaly Joleon ( or something like that ) but Julian to Julian worked better to illustrate the point.

brad
10-01-2012, 09:43 AM
Focusing on where the coach is from misses the point. What we pay the coach doesn't matter as it isn't subject to the cap.

The issue in coaching selections so far is that we haven't selected the right candidates. We've gone for the most part with unproven people with little to no experience running a football club (or being succsessful in doing so) and given them the keys. Not only are they given a giant mess from their predecessor to clean up, they hit a brick wall of corporate politics at every turn and have to deal with the idiosyncrasies of one of the strangest leagues in the entire world.

IMHO going out and hiring a first team coach or assistant with no experience running a first team directly from Spain, Italy, Portugal, Japan, or where ever would result in the same thing as getting one from England (unless we lucked out).

What this team needs at the coaching level is someone that has experience in winning in North America - knows the system, the league, the players, ect, ect. Time to put this whole "We are better than North American soccer - we need to be more European" bias aside and focus on becoming the best team on the continent (that's not aimed at any poster here btw - but that has been the general overall sentiment from TFC and a large number of supporters from day one IMHO)

narduch
10-01-2012, 09:47 AM
The club is trying to sell Mariner as an MLS guy. At least through its two main media mouthpieces (Larson and Rollins). The fact that he is failing is besides the point.

There really is no way to sell Cochrane though.

Ajax TFC
10-01-2012, 10:25 AM
I would love to see the report Klinsmann gave them and also have them tell us why they abandonded it so early.
They don't even know that they did abandon it. I'm 90% sure that the head people at the club fully believe that Mariner is currently carrying out Klinsmann's plan. I'm sure they have absolutely no real understanding of the plan so they believe that Mariner is carrying it out. All he has to do is tell them that they're practicing total football, and they won't know the difference

Oldtimer
10-01-2012, 10:30 AM
What this team needs at the coaching level is someone that has experience in winning in North America - knows the system, the league, the players, ect, ect. Time to put this whole "We are better than North American soccer - we need to be more European" bias aside and focus on becoming the best team on the continent (that's not aimed at any poster here btw - but that has been the general overall sentiment from TFC and a large number of supporters from day one IMHO)

Supporters Shield Winner 1996 (retroactively awarded)
MLS Coach of the Year 1996
MLS Cup Winner 1999
2007 & 2009 led USMNTU-20 team into U-20 World Cup
knows MLS and our own academy youth inside and out, as well as the MLS youth player pool

...our very own Thomas Rongen

TorontoGooner
10-01-2012, 11:01 AM
Supporters Shield Winner 1996 (retroactively awarded)
MLS Coach of the Year 1996
MLS Cup Winner 1999
2007 & 2009 led USMNTU-20 team into U-20 World Cup
knows MLS and our own academy youth inside and out, as well as the MLS youth player pool

...our very own Thomas Rongen

I'd go only with that. He's something of a character but the man knows his football

narduch
10-01-2012, 11:02 AM
I wonder if Rongen will also be pushed out in the off-season.

jloome
10-01-2012, 11:04 AM
This was the whole arguement that allowed north american mariner to become manager.

I honestly believe if Winter was given a competent sporting director, we wouldnt be having this discussion, and if you read my intial post I presented two canidates versed in the north american game that would be able to build us something that is worth paying for.

My overall observation is that there is a bias in this club when it pertains to the United kingdom, everybody besides maybe de klerk(whos disappeared) and rongen are from that mold of football.

A mold thats hasnt done anything to prove why we should rely so heavily on its expertise, especially pertaining to the development of youth.

Now we are stuck with a tactical and technical dimwit, because its the comfortable choice.

And only Toronto football fans that come from all walks of life suffer.

No, that's a false analogy. Mariner was never a manager in MLS, just familiar with it. what he's saying is factually correct: many more foreign managers with pedigrees have failed at MLS than succeeded.

Mariner has MSL knowledge, yes, but we need someone who knows the league AND has a coaching pedigree. One without the other is useless. Again Octavio Zambrano has been mentioned before as an example (I think he's coaching in Colombia right now).

The only English bias we have is the handful of Anglos that stemmed from Mo's hiring. HE had an English bias, because it's where his contacts were.

In every facet of life, the lazy answer is "bias." People need to stop looking for easy answers. There are solutions from any background and approach, as long as they're actual solutions.

What other Anglos have we loaded up with other than Mariner? Players he signed, that's it. The rest of the club is hardly chock-a-block with them.

Eckersley's overpaid, but people seem to forget that a) he's a good right back and b) he was Man Utd' reserver of the year in 2009 and they offered him a contract extension; the fact that at 22 he was too impatient to wait (and then subsequently got beaten out for the starting spot at Burnley) doesn't change his pedigree or skill. He's overpaid, yes, but only by MLS standards. If he was a right back at $200,000 I'd be pretty damn happy with it (although even that's arguably too high in this league.)

O'Dea is an Irish international, so he's arguably from that pedigree. Other than that....what Anglo bias? Mo hired Carver and Cummins, and Mo's long gone. Since then, we've had three coaches, one English (but living in the U.S. for 20 years!) and the other two Dutch and Croatian, respectively.

We need to collectively stop looking for easy things to blame. "Bias" is the easiest and usually has little to do with corporate stupidity. They are "equal opportunity inept."

Pookie
10-01-2012, 11:07 AM
I wonder if Rongen will also be pushed out in the off-season.

Some, who back Mariner, suggested he wasn't interested.

I'd say that Rongren would be an excellent choice given his familiarity with the Academy and International markets.... provided, he gets to choose his own staff and support personnel.

jloome
10-01-2012, 11:21 AM
Supporters Shield Winner 1996 (retroactively awarded)
MLS Coach of the Year 1996
MLS Cup Winner 1999
2007 & 2009 led USMNTU-20 team into U-20 World Cup
knows MLS and our own academy youth inside and out, as well as the MLS youth player pool

...our very own Thomas Rongen

He's had a couple of really rough returns since then, too, though.

Not sure a guy who has more interested in youth development (he coached high school for years, too) and had a horrible time in his last coaching job (1-8-1 in Chivas' first year) is ideal. It's been 11 years since he coached a winning team in MLS.

I don't think he'd be a bad pick, but it would continue the same dumb trend of MLSE appointing people they already know, and that usually doesn't help.

lobo
10-01-2012, 12:02 PM
They don't even know that they did abandon it. I'm 90% sure that the head people at the club fully believe that Mariner is currently carrying out Klinsmann's plan. I'm sure they have absolutely no real understanding of the plan so they believe that Mariner is carrying it out. All he has to do is tell them that they're practicing total football, and they won't know the difference

i was thinking the exact same thing recently ... mariner could be telling them anything, whatever they want to hear, and MLSE will have 100% confidence in him

Initial B
10-01-2012, 02:06 PM
Duane Rollins did bring up a salient point in one of his articles about why Marnier should stay on. He says that by getting rid of Mariner, considered a "good servant of MLS" before even getting one complete season will cost MLSE a lot of political capital with the League bigwigs.

It seems regarding firing Mariner we'll be damned if we do and damned if we don't. I think I've resigned myself to knuckle down another year of ineptitude next year. But really, so long as the FO remains the same, do you really think that changing the coach will make any difference to this club?

I forsee a decade passed before we get our first whiff at the playoffs.

Beach_Red
10-01-2012, 02:12 PM
Duane Rollins did bring up a salient point in one of his articles about why Marnier should stay on. He says that by getting rid of Mariner, considered a "good servant of MLS" before even getting one complete season will cost MLSE a lot of political capital with the League bigwigs.

It seems regarding firing Mariner we'll be damned if we do and damned if we don't. I think I've resigned myself to knuckle down another year of ineptitude next year. But really, so long as the FO remains the same, do you really think that changing the coach will make any difference to this club?

I forsee a decade passed before we get our first whiff at the playoffs.


This might have been true if Mariner had come straight from NE to TFC but once he went to Plymouth all bets are off.

It's still possible to turn around an MLS team in two seasons. If proper decisions were made TFC could be in the playoffs in 2014. As it is, you may be right about that decade in the wilderness...

TOBOR !
10-01-2012, 02:51 PM
Ajax, said it the problem is that this club is run by people that do not now football, Enligsh, Italian, Spanish, Dutch or anything else. They simply do not know football, they must take advise from experts, who in this country have a pro-English bias for the most part ( the second current would be the Italian bias-but that is not in the forefront right now) and they see that the most popular league in the world is the EPL, so the English game is their devault. But they do not know David Moyes ( I know he is scotish) from Paul Mariner or Mo ( yes also scotish) from Harry (Redknapp). Or Julian Lescott from Julian Lenon for that matter.

How many clubs in the premiership are currently playing 'English' football ? And what the heck is 'English' football anyway ?

Here's a telling graphic that will surprise no-one :

http://i1231.photobucket.com/albums/ee512/zonal_marking/graph7.jpg

from this February 2012 article, here : http://www.zonalmarking.net/2012/02/17/nationalities-of-managers-in-european-leagues/

trane
10-01-2012, 02:52 PM
No, that's a false analogy. Mariner was never a manager in MLS, just familiar with it. what he's saying is factually correct: many more foreign managers with pedigrees have failed at MLS than succeeded.

Mariner has MSL knowledge, yes, but we need someone who knows the league AND has a coaching pedigree. One without the other is useless. Again Octavio Zambrano has been mentioned before as an example (I think he's coaching in Colombia right now).

The only English bias we have is the handful of Anglos that stemmed from Mo's hiring. HE had an English bias, because it's where his contacts were.

In every facet of life, the lazy answer is "bias." People need to stop looking for easy answers. There are solutions from any background and approach, as long as they're actual solutions.

What other Anglos have we loaded up with other than Mariner? Players he signed, that's it. The rest of the club is hardly chock-a-block with them.

Eckersley's overpaid, but people seem to forget that a) he's a good right back and b) he was Man Utd' reserver of the year in 2009 and they offered him a contract extension; the fact that at 22 he was too impatient to wait (and then subsequently got beaten out for the starting spot at Burnley) doesn't change his pedigree or skill. He's overpaid, yes, but only by MLS standards. If he was a right back at $200,000 I'd be pretty damn happy with it (although even that's arguably too high in this league.)

O'Dea is an Irish international, so he's arguably from that pedigree. Other than that....what Anglo bias? Mo hired Carver and Cummins, and Mo's long gone. Since then, we've had three coaches, one English (but living in the U.S. for 20 years!) and the other two Dutch and Croatian, respectively.

We need to collectively stop looking for easy things to blame. "Bias" is the easiest and usually has little to do with corporate stupidity. They are "equal opportunity inept."

I do not think that MLSE know enough about football to have an English bias, but it is only natural that in an English speaking country when the English league is the top league to have a bias toward that league and that style of play. Plus it is an easy sell and an easy solution. [ I am using bias not in the sense of being anti anything, but in a more likely to chose one over the other, I have a Italian bias, that is clear, I do not hide it, but I realize that when I am trying to make a rational decision and try to weight against it to ensure a rational decision].

maninb
10-01-2012, 02:58 PM
Eckersley is a VERY GOOD RB being played out of position by an idiot manager...O'Dea is also a very good defender playing on a very bad team...get him some defensive midfield help instead of idiots like Maund, and Dunfield, and you'd notice his value...

trane
10-01-2012, 03:26 PM
How many clubs in the premiership are currently playing 'English' football ? And what the heck is 'English' football anyway ?

Here's a telling graphic that will surprise no-one :

http://i1231.photobucket.com/albums/ee512/zonal_marking/graph7.jpg

from this February 2012 article, here : http://www.zonalmarking.net/2012/02/17/nationalities-of-managers-in-european-leagues/

But are not most of the managers British. The non-British ones are Mancini, De Matteo, Wengner and Villa-Boas, are not all other ones Briritsh???

Yohan
10-01-2012, 03:36 PM
But are not most of the managers British. The non-British ones are Mancini, De Matteo, Wengner and Villa-Boas, are not all other ones Briritsh???

Martinez, Laudrupp.

Canary10
10-01-2012, 03:37 PM
But are not most of the managers British. The non-British ones are Mancini, De Matteo, Wengner and Villa-Boas, are not all other ones Briritsh???

Most are British, yeah, but there are more that aren't. Off the top of my head, Martinez (Wigan), Jol (Fulham), and Laudrup (Swans).

Canary10
10-01-2012, 03:41 PM
What Yohan said, plus Jol.

__wowza
10-01-2012, 03:44 PM
13 of them if we're not counting english.
7 if youre excluding the colonies.

so aside from all those other people, yes.. everyone coaching in the premiere league is british. unless we're not including the scotts and the northern irish.

nfitz
10-01-2012, 03:46 PM
But are not most of the managers British. The non-British ones are Mancini, De Matteo, Wengner and Villa-Boas, are not all other ones Briritsh???Jol, Laudrup, and Martinez.

It's a bit of a trick question, with 7 being English, 4 being Scottish, and 2 being Welsh. Only those 7 aren't British - though on paper Hughton is Irish ... though given he was born in London, raised in England, and has only ever played in England, I'd count him as English.

Clearly the graphic is either wrong, or out-of-date.

v00d00daddy
10-01-2012, 03:56 PM
Eckersley is a VERY GOOD RB being played out of position by an idiot manager...O'Dea is also a very good defender playing on a very bad team...get him some defensive midfield help instead of idiots like Maund, and Dunfield, and you'd notice his value...


My issue with Eckersley is not whether or not he's a very good RB. His skill level is open to debate but I'd concede that he's a great option for TFC at RB....but at the right price. He makes 220 (base) and 390 (guaranteed). I'm not sure which figure goes against the cap, but they're both too high for what he brings.

I think guys making that much money need to bring a lot to the table. If not just in skill level (where I would put Eckersley above average but not a standout), then by effect on his teammates.

I'd much prefer a guy in the back line who has the experience to make his team mates better. Nobody on our squad is gonna learn much from Eckersley, because he has a ton to learn himself.

In short...if you make upwards of 200k you'd better be a standout at your position, or a guy that your teammates can lean on. I don't think Eckersley is either.

As for O'Dea...I hope he's the guy that captains the back line and can show the younger guys (like Morgan and Henry) where they should be. I'm still on the fence about O'Dea. He has good games and bad. I'm curious to know how much he makes.

But I can't argue with you when you say that guys like Ecks and O'Dea would look much better if they weren't surrounded by so much utter incompetence. LOL

Yohan
10-01-2012, 04:05 PM
The backline of Ecks-Henry-ODea-Morgan has potential to be pretty good MLS defence in a year or two. But that won't happen under Mariner

trane
10-01-2012, 04:15 PM
Wow, I realy have not been following the EPL in the last 2 years.

denime
10-01-2012, 04:17 PM
The backline of Ecks-Henry-ODea-Morgan has potential to be pretty good MLS defence in a year or two. But that won't happen under Mariner

Why,is Mariner getting fired in November?

Just asking,that and Half price ST for 2013 would be great Christmas gift for all TFC Fans.

v00d00daddy
10-01-2012, 04:24 PM
The backline of Ecks-Henry-ODea-Morgan has potential to be pretty good MLS defence in a year or two. But that won't happen under Mariner

I think so too. The only trouble is that we'll probably have 500-600 k tied up in two players on that line. That's tough if/when Morgan or Henry mature to a stage where they'll warrant a higher wage.