Today's News,Saturday,Sep.23

[denime]

Mornin'



GAME DAY !




TFC TV (http://www.torontofc.ca/video)



Mariner Mulls Forward Options (http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2012/09/reds-look-forward-options)


TFC taking on Galaxy without striker Hassli (http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/2012/09/21/toronto_fc_la_galaxy_preview/)


TFC's Hassli sidelined against Galaxy (http://www.torontosun.com/2012/09/21/tfcs-hassli-sidelined-against-galaxy)


Eric Hassli out as Toronto FC seeks overdue win vs. Galaxy (http://www.cbc.ca/sports/soccer/story/2012/09/21/sp-mls-soccer-toronto-fc-los-angeles-galaxy.html)


TFC director 'incredibly angry' (http://www.torontosun.com/2012/09/21/reds-director-incredibly-angry-about-season)


Top 10 worst moments for TFC (http://www.torontosun.com/2012/09/20/top-10-worst-moments-for-tfc)


TFC targeted by bumbling match fixers in 2009 (http://www.cbc.ca/sports/soccer/opinion/2012/09/tfc-targeted-by-bumbling-match-fixers-in-2009.html)


Inspired Canadians ready for U-17 World Cup (http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/2012/09/21/canadians_inspired_for_under_17_world_cup/)






TFC Related Blogs !!



(http://redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?29582-TFC-MLS-blogs-thread)


SUNSHINE (http://www.torontosun.com/sunshine-girl)
(http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2012/09/missed-opportunities)

[Fort York Redcoat]

Fix the CSL!



-RPB Tourney here we go!!



Canda tix for the Cuba match still available in 112!

See link below:​

[Pookie]

My favorite spin from Larson's article:

In that regard, the club’s inability to discover and keep a solid nucleus of mid-level talent has made things nothing short of impossible. From Mo Johnston to John Carver to Preki, the Reds have never had a solid group of first-team players to accompany top talent.

When they did, decent pieces like Marvel Wynne, Tyrone Marshall, Nana Attakora and Sam Cronin have been traded away, mistakes made before the club’s current regime took over in June.

“We know the league quite well,” Cochrane said. “We know the types of players and individuals who fit how you win in this league.”

I like the way we are to pretend that the shipment of Soolsma and the fleeing of Plata never happened. That we didn't give give up 2 draft picks for an injured Hassli and Amerikwa in a season that doesn't matter. Picks that just might have helped build a nucleus. Oh, and I wonder if FC Dallas thinks that JDG, whose salary you are paying, is helping them win more than Wiedeman? Looks like the deal they made to give up the best finisher of the modern era is working out in their favour right now.

But hey, no reason to doubt our brain trust.... right? They know the types of players who fit how you win in this league. It says so right there.

[Gazza]

Oh Earl. You think YOU'RE angry?

It should read "Earl and Co are incredibly incompetent."

[narduch]

That article is a joke. I guess Larson is angling for a job in the TFC FO after the Sun fires his ass when the demand for TFC dwindles because no one cares any more.

I love the part about turnover. The turnover will continue, it has to, this is the worst team in MLS for a reason, you are going to have to change most of this guys.

As for Cochrane being angry? He is fucking part of the problem. His words are hollow.

[Auzzy]

My response to the Larson lark, let's see if it makes it through moderation:


Article starts with a joke: "It’s the type of fiery response supporters have been waiting for." Ha! The only words from Earl that supporters were hoping for: "After having been involved with this failing club for years, I've decided to step aside and pursue other opportunities."

The club has been saying for years and years that you don't need years and years to turn the club around. They always say "we're going to be successful," "get back on the right track" etc. but they've never even been on the right track.

So Earl, how did your "first round draft pick for Nathan Sturgis" trade work out? Gone to Houston for next to nothing, where he's appeared in portions of only 4 games this season. Apparently not good enough for them either. Compare that with the guys who were available in the draft. Can we expect more genius moves like that as you "fix" this club into oblivion? And you have the gall to say "We know the league quite well."

[TorCanSoc]

Oh Earl. You think YOU'RE angry?

It should read "Earl and Co are incredibly incompetent."

Wait till they only get 6,000 on renewals... that should get everyone plenty angry. I really think its going to be that low. All the brass scratching their heads and saying "What the happened?"

[BeachTory]

We can post to each other how we feel about our team situation, but we are preaching to the choir. I stongly suggest that if you want your voice heard, to post comments on larsons article.

Well, i did anyway. Not that i feel much better.

[ag futbol]

First off: great job with the news as always.

Second: TFC article on match fixing talks about a failed attempt, but I would not be surprised if MLS has been subject to some deeper scandals. The refs are naturally bumbling, the viewing audience is somewhat wide, and low-paid individuals are abound. It's ripe for scandal IMO.

Third: Can't somebody else standup and counter Kurt Larson's sickening ass kissing? anybody? Surely there is one media person in this city who can call a spade a spade.

[Auzzy]

We can post to each other how we feel about our team situation, but we are preaching to the choir. I stongly suggest that if you want your voice heard, to post comments on larsons article.

Well, i did anyway. Not that i feel much better.

I can't rep you on here, but I can vote up your article on the Sun website... ;)

Of course, the downside is -- Larson & the Sun love page views, comments, votes, etc even if they are negative. That's why I've mostly been avoiding his crud. But I think with this article, it's more important to send a message to the club by commenting etc.

[narduch]

I found this one quote interesting:

“Paul and I have had conversations about this,” Cochrane said of building a competitive MLS side. “You need a quality squad before you add those big-name pieces.”

From the sounds of it, the club is going to start to carry less DPs. They will give the excuse that they are building slowly, but I bet it has more to do with a decrease in revenue.

[ag futbol]

^ I don't necessarily disagree with carrying less designated players. But you are right, it could easily be used as an excuse.

To me you get one DP at the start (probably a target man), then add more as warranted.

[Auzzy]

I try not to read anything into any word they say. They'll do whatever tickles their fancy on a day-to-day basis. Some agent offers you a DP with shiny ticket-selling baubles? Sure sign him, or maybe not. Or trade a draft pick for him. Be one of the highest-spending teams in the league in hopes of buying success, selling tickets, and getting back to yearly insane price increases. Or don't spend money until the ticket sales are there. Who the hell knows, could change today, tomorrow, whatevs.

[Richard]

First off: great job with the news as always.

Second: TFC article on match fixing talks about a failed attempt, but I would not be surprised if MLS has been subject to some deeper scandals. The refs are naturally bumbling, the viewing audience is somewhat wide, and low-paid individuals are abound. It's ripe for scandal IMO.

Third: Can't somebody else standup and counter Kurt Larson's sickening ass kissing? anybody? Surely there is one media person in this city who can call a spade a spade.

Yes i have feeling as well maybe a few TFC games have been fixed or mls for that matter, would not supprise me.

As for Larson I am really disappointed noone is stoping him, its unbelivable how biased he is. Imo he needs to be fired, he has no journalistic integrity and its sickening to see it continue with his editors not stopping him.

[MFG1]

Sounds like Cochrane was hanging out with Beeston last week or something that the best he has is saying that he is angry> puhleese.

[TOBOR !]

If that article was written by anyone other than Larson I'd likely have read it. Otherwise, what's the point?

[Oldtimer]

I found this one quote interesting:

“Paul and I have had conversations about this,” Cochrane said of building a competitive MLS side. “You need a quality squad before you add those big-name pieces.”

From the sounds of it, the club is going to start to carry less DPs. They will give the excuse that they are building slowly, but I bet it has more to do with a decrease in revenue.
I called it several days ago:


I'm pretty sure that instead of "spend what it takes to get fans back," it's going to be "spend as little as possible so you can still make money with 8,000 in the stands. " Expect this team to suck for the forseable future.

http://redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?32739-Mariner-Cochrane-to-return-in-2013/page4&p=1530050#post1530050

[ArmenJBX]

Well, no. That's not fair to say - I actually agree with the supposed direction Cochrane and Mariner just stated they'll be taking.

I've said it for a while now - we cannot build a team around players that cannot be relied upon consistently. As much as we love Koevermans and Frings, they are not long-term players. We cannot build around them. We shouldn't have built around De Rosario either. We need to build this core of MLS players first and foremost, because Toronto FC probably has the thinnest roster in all of MLS - we don't even fill the bench, imagine.

You can give a puny soldier (team) the best guns (DPs) in the world and he would still be a bad soldier, but give that soldier all sorts of training programs, build him and shape him into a proper fighter, and then, when he can take on the opponents with his skills rather than his weapons, you can make him even better with the DP shotgun of doom.

Sorry for the shitty analogy. It makes sense in my head though :D

[Pookie]

Well, no. That's not fair to say - I actually agree with the supposed direction Cochrane and Mariner just stated they'll be taking.

I've said it for a while now - we cannot build a team around players that cannot be relied upon consistently. As much as we love Koevermans and Frings, they are not long-term players. We cannot build around them. We shouldn't have built around De Rosario either. We need to build this core of MLS players first and foremost, because Toronto FC probably has the thinnest roster in all of MLS - we don't even fill the bench, imagine.

You can give a puny soldier (team) the best guns (DPs) in the world and he would still be a bad soldier, but give that soldier all sorts of training programs, build him and shape him into a proper fighter, and then, when he can take on the opponents with his skills rather than his weapons, you can make him even better with the DP shotgun of doom.

Sorry for the shitty analogy. It makes sense in my head though :D

All makes sense to find a (younger) core group you can depend on. Except what they are talking and what they are doing are different things.

Hassli for a draft pick? Amerikwa for a draft pick? If anything, they should be stockpiling picks in order to build a core of assets.

Loaning 20 year old Plata (who likely did want to leave but whose fault is that)? Cutting 24 year old Soolsma? Sitting 24 year old Avila on the bench and instead playing 30 year old Dunfield?

Season is done. If this is the core nucleus, play them. If not, play others that might form it. A mid-field of Silva/Avila might be interesting. Let's see. Ship out the vets and get whatever you can for them. Draft picks, allocation money, cap space, etc. Give yourself flexibility. Dunfield? Cann? Even a 3rd round pick would be welcomed. I like Kocic but if he isn't coming back next year and his contract expires, move him for whatever you can now. He'd probably welcome it. I'd even put out "feelers" for offers for all the DPs including Koevermans. If not building around DPs is the key, then go all in on it. Get as many assets as you can heading into next season.

[ArmenJBX]

We didn't lose Plata. As for Hassli, he's exactly the kind of player we need. He'll need the off-season to recover but I like Hassli.
Amarikwa is depth at best and we gave up a nothing pick for him. Aaron Maund was a first round pick and look how he turned out. Anything lower than Maund's spot is really a crapshoot anyway.

Plata's not gone. He's on loan, and can be called back. Actually, I'd like to see Plata play in the hole in a #10 role. Much less bodies to go past and can be much more influential.

[Pookie]

Don't you want to ask yourself why was Plata loaned out?

As for Maund, he's just 22. We ready to write him off?

And Hassli? An oft injured, aging cap max player who can't keep pace with a press high system and therefore dictates "no frills" is exactly what we need?

[Richard]

If were still playing hoofball it wont matter what type of players we have, it comes down to tactics and player management which has been abysmal under Mariner. This is the same team that went "toe to toe" with Santos on the road for 60 min, good players playing a shit system will not play to standard. I seriously doubt Mariner can coach anything other than what he is telling the players now.

[ArmenJBX]

His development would take an adverse and negative turn in the midst of Paul Mariner's civil war against Aron Winter. Plata admired Winter and Mariner, perhaps, did not want a bright star to see what was happening. It was easier for Plata and for TFC to play at LDU Quito.

I don't think we've seen the last of Plata, but if we have, I have no idea what Paul Mariner is doing. I've given up trying to understand this team, to be frank, but getting rid of Plata after paying a ridiculous fee to get him in the first place borders between financial irresponsibility and sheer stupidity.

[ag futbol]

I've said it for a while now - we cannot build a team around players that cannot be relied upon consistently. As much as we love Koevermans and Frings, they are not long-term players. We cannot build around them. We shouldn't have built around De Rosario either. We need to build this core of MLS players first and foremost, because Toronto FC probably has the thinnest roster in all of MLS - we don't even fill the bench, imagine.

Huh? Not following here.

Let's face it, MLS is not a league where there is a lot of long term building. There's too much turnover and it's hard to retrain your best prospects or standouts. If you can get two / three solid years out of a player, you put him on your team.

It also seems a little bit odd that you'd lump Dero in with the other players you've listed. Outside of the injury he just had, he's pretty much always healthy and contributing.

[ArmenJBX]

It's not really about injury. De Rosario was Toronto FC, for a short while. Torsten Frings, Danny Koevermans, these are guys we put too much reliance on, and because of this, we didn't really have anything sustainable. We needed something sustainable but instead picked up players that only had a couple years left. With De Rosario, we picked up a player that tried to do it all himself. De Rosario has changed in his time in DC - he's more of a team player than he was in Toronto, that's for sure. In any case, I'd rather have Sam Cronin and Ben Zemanski than Torsten Frings, who could only ever give this team two solid years of service. We needed younger, cheaper, solid MLS players. The league is built on these kinds of players. Graham Zusi, Kyle Beckerman, and the like.

[ag futbol]

It's not really about injury. De Rosario was Toronto FC, for a short while. Torsten Frings, Danny Koevermans, these are guys we put too much reliance on, and because of this, we didn't really have anything sustainable. We needed something sustainable but instead picked up players that only had a couple years left. With De Rosario, we picked up a player that tried to do it all himself. De Rosario has changed in his time in DC - he's more of a team player than he was in Toronto, that's for sure. In any case, I'd rather have Sam Cronin and Ben Zemanski than Torsten Frings, who could only ever give this team two solid years of service. We needed younger, cheaper, solid MLS players. The league is built on these kinds of players. Graham Zusi, Kyle Beckerman, and the like.
But look at this entire history. Fit into the system in Houston, SJ, and DC. Was more individualistic here, but the team was crap.

He was pretty much doing whatever had to be done and upping his game to fill the void, not sure why that's looked at like a negative. Would we be applauding if he was laying the ball off for Chad Barrett more often? I certainly wouldn't

[ArmenJBX]

But look at this entire history. Fit into the system in Houston, SJ, and DC. Was more individualistic here, but the team was crap.

He was pretty much doing whatever had to be done and upping his game to fill the void, not sure why that's looked at like a negative. Would we be applauding if he was laying the ball off for Chad Barrett more often? I certainly wouldn't

It's a negative because it's not sustainable. If De Rosario gets injured, we're done. Same thing happened with Frings and Koevermans - when they got hurt, we turned to shit. You cannot build a team where so much is on the line and on the shoulders of one or two players. It needs to be solid. That's why I've always said I'd rather have a team full of 11 solid, 7.5-8/10 players than a team with ten players at 6/10 with one 10/10 player.

[ensco]

Plata's not gone. He's on loan, and can be called back. Actually, I'd like to see Plata play in the hole in a #10 role. Much less bodies to go past and can be much more influential.

Interesting formation -3 centerforwards with Hassli, Koevs and Plata.

What the hell, we've tried everything else.

[TFC07]

So in other words, except Mariner and co to pick up more MLS rejects in off-season. lol

No good MLS players wants to come to Toronto due to our management.

[narduch]

Plata is as good as gone.

The percentage of players that get loaned out and then eventually become key contributors to the club that owns them is very low. I don't think Plata will be an exception.

[ag futbol]

It's a negative because it's not sustainable. If De Rosario gets injured, we're done. Same thing happened with Frings and Koevermans - when they got hurt, we turned to shit. You cannot build a team where so much is on the line and on the shoulders of one or two players. It needs to be solid. That's why I've always said I'd rather have a team full of 11 solid, 7.5-8/10 players than a team with ten players at 6/10 with one 10/10 player.
I disagree. The two things you are comparing (building a strong base or having a star player) aren't mutually exclusive.

You can still accommodate a star or two under the cap and spread the rest of the dollars around. What you can't do is have 3 designated players and pay your RB 390k per year.

[Ajax TFC]

As for Larson I am really disappointed noone is stoping him, its unbelivable how biased he is. Imo he needs to be fired, he has no journalistic integrity and its sickening to see it continue with his editors not stopping him.
What do you expect from the Sun? they're pretty much the Fox news of Canada

[Strans]

I disagree. The two things you are comparing (building a strong base or having a star player) aren't mutually exclusive.

You can still accommodate a star or two under the cap and spread the rest of the dollars around. What you can't do is have 3 designated players and pay your RB 390k per year.

THIS. One can agree with both ideas that a) 2-3 year success windows are something to strive for and acquire DPs to achieve and b) a solid core of relatively inexpensive, quality players are the heart of consistent success in mls.

[JayMolly]

So in other words, except Mariner and co to pick up more MLS rejects in off-season. lol

No good MLS players wants to come to Toronto due to our management.


TFC have pressing and quite simple needs.

They need good players AND they need someone in charge!

[JavierMartini]

Hasili-plata-koevs

That thought tickles me a bit.

Now assuming frings is gone who will Marshall the mf and play Zelda for this team?

Any takers?!