PDA

View Full Version : PRE/IN/POST GAME_TFC vs Chicago Fire-Wed.Sep.12- BMO 7:00 PM



denime
09-12-2012, 09:58 AM
WOW,

Game day and no pre/in/post game thread.Excitement surrounding TFC is really high,lately.

Starting line up anyone?


Deep down hope for a win,in reality don't give a f*#k,season is finished anyway.

maninb
09-12-2012, 10:18 AM
If a loss helps get that moron Mariner fired then I'm hoping for a Chicago win....

narduch
09-12-2012, 10:22 AM
If a loss helps get that moron Mariner fired then I'm hoping for a Chicago win....

With the Anselmi promotion I don't see Mariner going anywhere. He will have next season to prove he is capable.

As for who will play for TFC today:

O'Dea didn't play for Ireland yesterday and returned to Toronto early, so he should be available.

Lambe and Hall didn't play for Bermuda yesterday so they should also be available.

Johnson played a full 90 for Jamaica so I don't see him playing.

I don't think Morgan and Dunfield will make it back from Panama in time.

KGH
09-12-2012, 10:34 AM
Injury Report:

TORONTO FC -- OUT: GK Stefan Frei (L lower leg); FW Danny Koevermans (L knee ACL tear); DF Ty Harden (lower abdominal strain); MF Torsten Frings (L hip); QUESTIONABLE: FW Eric Hassli (rib contusion); DF Doneil Henry (L knee tendinosis)

CHICAGO FIRE -- OUT: DF Cory Gibbs (R knee meniscus repair); DF Steven Kinney (R groin pain); QUESTIONABLE: MF Daniel Paladini (R calf pain)

KGH
09-12-2012, 10:39 AM
Starting Line up:

------------------Kocic-----------------
Hall-----Ecks-------O'Dea------Emory
Lambe---Maund----Avila---Weide---
-----------Silva-------Amerikwa-------

Subs: Hall, Stinson, Cann, Hassli, Henry

jloome
09-12-2012, 11:09 AM
Starting Line up:

------------------Kocic-----------------
Hall-----Ecks-------O'Dea------Emory
Lambe---Maund----Avila---Weide---
-----------Silva-------Amerikwa-------

Subs: Hall, Stinson, Cann, Hassli, Henry

Jesus, Aaron Maund and Eric Avila in central midifield? We're in trouble if that happens.

What am I talking about? We're in trouble no matter what. We had no central midfield when we actually had a central midfield.

EDIT: Just noticed bad grammar. Also notable that even with Jesus in midfield, we'd have no chance.

Canary10
09-12-2012, 11:12 AM
Jesus, Aaron Maund and Eric Avila in central midifield? We're in trouble if that happens.

What am I talking about? We're in trouble no matter what. We had no central midfield when we actually had a central midfield.

Ha, that's funny and very true. I would say, though, that we could have played a reasonable 4-2-3-1 with who we have (or had) up to the transfer deadline. The switch to 4-4-2 moved players into situations they shouldn't have been put into.

Davenport
09-12-2012, 11:48 AM
Jesus, Aaron Maund and Eric Avila in central midifield? We're in trouble if that happens.

What am I talking about? We're in trouble no matter what. We had no central midfield when we actually had a central midfield.

EDIT: Just noticed bad grammar. Also notable that even with Jesus in midfield, we'd have no chance.

Jesus is not a midfielder, he plays in goal.

Jesus saves.

KGH
09-12-2012, 11:53 AM
Jesus, Aaron Maund and Eric Avila in central midifield? We're in trouble if that happens.

What am I talking about? We're in trouble no matter what. We had no central midfield when we actually had a central midfield.

EDIT: Just noticed bad grammar. Also notable that even with Jesus in midfield, we'd have no chance.

I was looking at the roster and trying to figure out who we have that can play today. Dunfield won't be back, Frings is out. Who else do we have? Stinson maybe? Cordon? We're gonna get carved in the midfield tonight.

__wowza
09-12-2012, 11:55 AM
Jesus is not a midfielder, he plays in goal.

Jesus saves.

http://www.thestate.ae/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/olivia-gif-5.gif

Derko
09-12-2012, 12:02 PM
Jesus is not a midfielder, he plays in goal.

Jesus saves.

I hear Jesus does that often.

cmonyoureds
09-12-2012, 12:02 PM
Hmmm, will Boardshorts start a houndstooth pattern, the ever popular large square pattern, something with cargo pockets or go completely off the charts and bring out some capri shorts now the temperature has dropped a little bit?

Derko
09-12-2012, 12:06 PM
Hmmm, will Boardshorts start a houndstooth pattern, the ever popular large square pattern, something with cargo pockets or go completely off the charts and bring out some capri shorts now the temperature has dropped a little bit?

At least they won't be short shorts.

narduch
09-12-2012, 12:28 PM
Starting Line up:

------------------Kocic-----------------
Hall-----Ecks-------O'Dea------Emory
Lambe---Maund----Avila---Weide---
-----------Silva-------Amerikwa-------

Subs: Hall, Stinson, Cann, Hassli, Henry

I will be shocked if Kocic starts.

Mariner will probably find a way to start Avila on the bench too.

TFC07
09-12-2012, 12:36 PM
Wow, I totally forgot TFC were playing today. lol

Anyway, hopefully Mariner plays the kids to give them a chance to prove themselves.

v00d00daddy
09-12-2012, 01:22 PM
I will be shocked if Kocic starts.

Mariner will probably find a way to start Avila on the bench too.

I'll be even more shocked if Kocic WANTS to start.

Bumped in the last important game of the season only to be told he's starting for a game that means nothing with a bunch of other regulars out of the lineup?

And...just had triplets.

I doubt he has any desire to play but I'd think that if he's a professional he'll do what's asked of him....begrudgingly.

ensco
09-12-2012, 02:02 PM
Let's roll some Academy kids out there. Why not?

Richard
09-12-2012, 02:06 PM
Who wants to bet were going to have less than 25% possesion?

narduch
09-12-2012, 02:09 PM
Who wants to bet were going to have less than 25% possesion?

Who wants to bet we don't dress a full bench?

backbeat
09-12-2012, 03:05 PM
Who wants to bet we don't dress a full bench?

who wants to bet we don't dress half the stadium?

habstfc
09-12-2012, 03:25 PM
2 FREE TICKETS TONIGHT 133 row 8. First to respond gets them, make sure you use them. You have til about 4:55 to respond

starter
09-12-2012, 03:25 PM
who wants to bet we don't dress half the stadium?
'No Frills' has free parking

narduch
09-12-2012, 03:26 PM
who wants to bet we don't dress half the stadium?

Ah yes, the famous 18,000 people, most of whom are in the washroom or at the beer and concessions lines.

Oldtimer
09-12-2012, 03:44 PM
With the Anselmi promotion I don't see Mariner going anywhere. He will have next season to prove he is capable.



Unfortunately, I agree with you.
Especially if Earl Cochrane is made president. Earl is part of the "old" CSA cabal, and I'm sure loooves old style longball.

jloome
09-12-2012, 04:13 PM
Unfortunately, I agree with you.
Especially if Earl Cochrane is made president. Earl is part of the "old" CSA cabal, and I'm sure loooves old style longball.

I've never seen anything to suggest the guy knows what the word "longball" even means, or any other tactical suggestion. If there were a definition of having an utterly superficial public persona, he would be it. Who knows what the guy knows, other than how to charm in person, which he's apparently very good at.

That and a quarter still won't buy you a pack of gum any more.

narduch
09-12-2012, 05:15 PM
From the twitters:

#TorontoFC (https://twitter.com/search/?q=%23TorontoFC&src=hash) XI: Kocic; J. Hall, Eckersley, O'Dea, Emory; Lambe, Maund, Silva, Wiedeman; Amarikwa, Hassli .

I guess I was wrong about the keeper. No Avila though.

Bench: F. Hall; Cann, Henry, Morgan, Stinson, Avila

Shortened bench, once again. I guess Makabuya and Cordon aren't good enough to be on our bench, again.

thefreestyla
09-12-2012, 05:16 PM
@JohnMolinaro: #TFC (https://twitter.com/search/?src=hash&q=%23TFC) still technically alive in playoff race and won't be officially eliminated unless they lose or draw vs. Chicago today, MLS told me.

[NBF]
09-12-2012, 05:17 PM
In the pregame show with Serioux and that dude thats not Bonhomme, the lineup was like this:

---------------------------Kocic--------------------------
Hall----------Eckersley--------------O'Dea-----------Emory
----------------------------------------------------------
Avila----------Maund---------------Stinson?----------Silva
----------------------------------------------------------
-------------Amarikwa--------------Hassli?----------------

I dont remember if it Hassli or Stinson.

narduch
09-12-2012, 05:18 PM
@JohnMolinaro: #TFC (https://twitter.com/search/?src=hash&q=%23TFC) still technically alive in playoff race and won't be officially eliminated unless they lose or draw vs. Chicago today, MLS told me.

That's actually wrong. TFC is eliminated because the teams in and around the 5th spot all play eachother and can't all drop points.

[NBF]
09-12-2012, 05:20 PM
From the twitters:

#TorontoFC (https://twitter.com/search/?q=%23TorontoFC&src=hash) XI: Kocic; J. Hall, Eckersley, O'Dea, Emory; Lambe, Maund, Silva, Wiedeman; Amarikwa, Hassli .

I guess I was wrong about the keeper. No Avila though.

Bench: F. Hall; Cann, Henry, Morgan, Stinson, Avila

Shortened bench, once again. I guess Makabuya and Cordon aren't good enough to be on our bench, again.

I hope Cordon, Makubuya find their way to Edmonton FC or somewhere in NASL where they can develop.

ag futbol
09-12-2012, 05:21 PM
Ah yes, the famous 18,000 people, most of whom are in the washroom or at the beer and concessions lines.
Well I mean, when I watch TFC, based on how they play, I either have the urge to drink or go to the bathroom.

narduch
09-12-2012, 05:25 PM
Chicago:

Starters: Johnson; Anibaba, Friedrich, Berry, Segares; Nyarko, Pause (C), Pardo, Fernandez; Rolfe, MacDonald

Bench: Tornaghi, Gargan, Thompson, Bone, Videira, Alex, Oduro

Ajax TFC
09-12-2012, 05:48 PM
Well I mean, when I watch TFC, based on how they play, I either have the urge to drink or go to the bathroom.
I get that urge when I simply see the starting XI.

jloome
09-12-2012, 05:52 PM
From the twitters:

#TorontoFC (https://twitter.com/search/?q=%23TorontoFC&src=hash) XI: Kocic; J. Hall, Eckersley, O'Dea, Emory; Lambe, Maund, Silva, Wiedeman; Amarikwa, Hassli .

I guess I was wrong about the keeper. No Avila though.

Bench: F. Hall; Cann, Henry, Morgan, Stinson, Avila

Shortened bench, once again. I guess Makabuya and Cordon aren't good enough to be on our bench, again.

That's not a shortened bench. It's five subs plus a goalie in MLS; it's seven in Concacaf tourney play, ala ECL, I believe.

Super
09-12-2012, 05:56 PM
Any live stream for this one?

Lennon
09-12-2012, 06:00 PM
If a loss helps get that moron Mariner fired then I'm hoping for a Chicago win....

+1
I want the whole front office gone. Maybe if we lose the rest of our game that will happen ..
PS - Chicago +105 looks like a great bet.

v00d00daddy
09-12-2012, 06:02 PM
This would be my ideal outcome for today's game.

-By some miracle we squeak out a win with Kocic stopping a penalty and having an overall good game.

-after the game Kocic (with the rest of the team) heads to the southeast corner of bmo and claps to the supporters, takes off his jersey, and throws it into the crowd.

-Kocic walks back over to the TFC bench, shakes Mariners hand, and informs him that he's done.

-a close up camera shot on Mariners face

This scenario would be the only reason that I'd regret not using my ticket for the 5th straight time. Lol

Throw in Avila "straining" something when asked to warm up in the 83rd minute while Mariner contemplates using his first sub of the night.

Damn...I'm a miserable fuck right now. Hahahahaha

nonc
09-12-2012, 06:09 PM
J Hall and Emory can literally be as bad as they want and Henry will sit on the bench, that specific situation is even more sickening than Avila sitting, which is saying a lot. MARINER ERA.

Nerepis
09-12-2012, 06:10 PM
Jesus saves.
...and Dichio scores on the rebound!

nonc
09-12-2012, 06:12 PM
how many times does Hall have to get burned before he doesn't insist on playing CB when he's supposed to be playing RB?

jloome
09-12-2012, 06:18 PM
how many times does Hall have to get burned before he doesn't insist on playing CB when he's supposed to be playing RB?

Typo. You meant Eckersley, as Jeremy Hall can't play at the MLS level in any position, as far as I can tell.

Why is a guy who was a midfielder in college and quite obviously can't man mark playing fullback?

TFC07
09-12-2012, 06:19 PM
Wow, BMO field is so empty and quiet. :(

acorn34
09-12-2012, 06:21 PM
Stream? My usual ones not working....

TFC07
09-12-2012, 06:22 PM
LMAO! Awful defending! 1-nil for Fire

ag futbol
09-12-2012, 06:22 PM
Well thus caps off a pathetic start to the game.

[NBF]
09-12-2012, 06:23 PM
Hall didnt mark his man, and O'Dea looked like gave up.

Super
09-12-2012, 06:23 PM
Stream: http://www.usagoals.com/live/191027-toronto-fc-vs-chicago-fire/watch/stream/online/free/feed/p2p/en/vivo/tv/gratis/

Wingback6
09-12-2012, 06:24 PM
Maund is brutal, can see why Winter never gave him a sniff of first team football. Don't know why Henry isn't on. Mariner is a fool.

Glad he had the sense to put Kocic in though, finally.

nonc
09-12-2012, 06:24 PM
Maund is simply awful, probably 3 of the worst 5 TFC players ever on the field and Mariner loves it.

DoubleUp
09-12-2012, 06:25 PM
Mariner is terrible no doubt about it. This looks like house league.

Corpand
09-12-2012, 06:26 PM
Haven't watched a game in 2 weeks, tuned into this shitshow today and its embarrassing.
Why is he playing Maund? He is so slow on the ball and he is ABSOLUTELY not a defensive midfielder. Poor distribution, very poor reading of the game. Not only responsible for the stupid goal, but for 2 other almost-chances Chicago had.

This team is a disaster. Wiedeman also playing? Why was he picked up? Terrible player.

nonc
09-12-2012, 06:26 PM
;1527889']Hall didnt mark his man, and O'Dea looked like gave up.

O'Dea's game and flight schedule has been ridiculous and this current XI is hopeless, i'm gonna give him a pass until next year.

TFC07
09-12-2012, 06:26 PM
Mariner isn't getting shit done and making things worse in long term for TFC.

How in the world did this man get a contact extension is a mystery to me.

TFC07
09-12-2012, 06:27 PM
Mariner is terrible no doubt about it. This looks like house league.

Feels like one as well....plus crowd looks dead.

Super
09-12-2012, 06:27 PM
Mariner isn't getting shit done and making things worse in long term for TFC.

How in the world did this man get a contact extension is a mystery to me.

He'll be gone in end of May 2013 ... when we're 0-9 again.

DoubleUp
09-12-2012, 06:29 PM
luis Silva is the closest thing to a footballer we have in the midfield.

TFC07
09-12-2012, 06:29 PM
He'll be gone in end of May 2013 ... when we're 0-9 again.

Aren't we winless like 9 straight games now?

ag futbol
09-12-2012, 06:31 PM
Aron Maund makes Tery Dunfield look like Xavi Hernandez.

He has very little skill and he's lazy. Stinson must be thinking "should have stayed in school!"

TFC07
09-12-2012, 06:31 PM
It's hard to watch this game especially after watching WCQ games. Quality is really bad.

ag futbol
09-12-2012, 06:34 PM
Jason DeVos: "It's much easier to throw a dry ball"

thanks for clearing that up for us.

maxpower
09-12-2012, 06:37 PM
Jason DeVos: "It's much easier to throw a dry ball"

thanks for clearing that up for us.

And to think that he was the only half-decent pundit during the euros.

DoubleUp
09-12-2012, 06:38 PM
Mariner doesnt have a clue, the players cant even hold their position.....this is really bad. jumbleball:facepalm:

DaBandit
09-12-2012, 06:39 PM
Cant believe that Mariner picked up all these MLS rejects and stubbornly starts all of them despite their obvious lack of talent.. Obvious to most I guess, but Mariner is a clueless fool.. This is by far the WORST team we have ever had, thanks Mariner...

DoubleUp
09-12-2012, 06:46 PM
What formation are we playing???......is it free form or the total football we were promised???

[NBF]
09-12-2012, 06:46 PM
Hall telling Friedrich what he should be doing.lololol

[NBF]
09-12-2012, 06:47 PM
Whats formation our we playing???......is it free form or the total football we were promised???

Obviously the formation they've been practicing in the last two weeks.

[NBF]
09-12-2012, 06:50 PM
Wow, exposed badly.

DoubleUp
09-12-2012, 06:50 PM
;1527913']Obviously the formation they've been practicing in the last two weeks.

since I cant see one, cant be that obvious.:rolleyes:

DaBandit
09-12-2012, 06:51 PM
What formation are we playing???......is it free form or the total football we were promised???

No Frills!!!

TFC07
09-12-2012, 06:52 PM
LMAO! This is becoming a comedy fest. Thanks for laugh TFC

ag futbol
09-12-2012, 06:52 PM
I have to say I'm impressed with the improvements Mariner has made to this team. After this game we'll be winless in the last eight league games??? it took Winter over a year to achieve those kind of results, while Mariner has done it within his first half year in charge.

Corpand
09-12-2012, 06:54 PM
This match is so embarrassing. I'm really trying to pull out positives here. Ecks is playing decent (keeps going from CB to RW though with no cover, interesting.....). Hassli doesn't freak out under pressure. Umm....that is literally it.

The worst is after the second goal when they cut to the Chicago bench. They aren't smiling from the good goal, they are smirking at how easy that goal was scored. Fucking terrible.

DoubleUp
09-12-2012, 06:54 PM
No Frills!!!

LMAO !thanks for that one:cheers:

DaBandit
09-12-2012, 06:55 PM
feel bad for mills.. left out to dry..

Brooker
09-12-2012, 06:56 PM
Barely even boo's at halftime. The crowd doesn't even care anymore.

DoubleUp
09-12-2012, 06:58 PM
feel bad for mills.. left out to dry..
I feel bad for any decent footballer in this club, this is a disgrace...really!!!

nonc
09-12-2012, 06:58 PM
Aron Maund makes Tery Dunfield look like Xavi Hernandez.

He has very little skill and he's lazy. Stinson must be thinking "should have stayed in school!"

kind of highlights why there should be no 2nd round of superdraft, because it's a waste of time for everyone.

[NBF]
09-12-2012, 06:58 PM
Jeremy Hall has a big mouth. I can hear him screaming at people on tv and getting in Freiderich's face is just proof theres a lot of tension there.

DaBandit
09-12-2012, 07:03 PM
I feel bad for any decent footballer in this club, this is a disgrace...really!!!

Your so right about that.. sadly i'm tuning out at halftime and watching Big Brother with the wife.. Yes that how sad thing have become..

jazzy
09-12-2012, 07:05 PM
J Hall and Emory can literally be as bad as they want and Henry will sit on the bench, that specific situation is even more sickening than Avila sitting, which is saying a lot. MARINER ERA.

^this x1000

ag futbol
09-12-2012, 07:10 PM
"Said all the right things before the game"

Yes, clearly you are a tactical masterclass.

DoubleUp
09-12-2012, 07:11 PM
finally removed wiedeman!

leafsman
09-12-2012, 07:11 PM
why did i come to the game, shouldve stayes home and played nhl 13. Making it easier to not renew now. The TSN monkey could pick a better lineup than mariner.

Couchy81
09-12-2012, 07:12 PM
Just tuned it, what'd I miss? heard Mariner say it was the worst half of football he's seen, so I assume it was bad.

jazzy
09-12-2012, 07:13 PM
why did i come to the game, shouldve stayes home and played nhl 13. Making it easier to not renew now. The TSN monkey could pick a better lineup than mariner.

I simply hate it when I'm glad I didn't make it to the game.......sad

aptone
09-12-2012, 07:14 PM
Mariner just called that the most embarrassing half of football he's ever been associated with. I'm just going to leave that there...

DoubleUp
09-12-2012, 07:17 PM
maund is in no mans land ! mariner is not tactically astute enough to teach that kid to play that position properly.

Eastend
09-12-2012, 07:20 PM
I guess there's always next year.....again.

This is just sad.....Sigh!!!

Dom

p.s. Not sure why I'm still watching though.

v00d00daddy
09-12-2012, 07:23 PM
Poor Morgan. Plays the ball back to Kocic and waits for the return because he's got miles of space....and Kocic hoofs it up for a 50/50 ball.

Morgan looks frustrated and dumbfounded.

ag futbol
09-12-2012, 07:30 PM
It's like a practice game for them out there.

Eckersley is really starting to show some weakness at CB

Couchy81
09-12-2012, 07:30 PM
Those chants of who are ya are directed at Mariner right???

Nerepis
09-12-2012, 07:31 PM
Please make it stop!

iy12l
09-12-2012, 07:32 PM
Those chants of who are ya are directed at Mariner right???

What chants,?

Just got here, is it true Mariner said this is the worst half he ever saw?

TFC07
09-12-2012, 07:33 PM
Yeah it's true that Mariner said that during half time.

Couchy81
09-12-2012, 07:41 PM
What chants,?



Those two 8 year olds behind the bench

TFC07
09-12-2012, 07:44 PM
goool! Hassli with the goal.

Couchy81
09-12-2012, 07:46 PM
nice goal by Hassli

ag futbol
09-12-2012, 07:47 PM
I don't understand why we wasted our time with Amarikwa playing behind the striker when it should have been Silva the entire time. Sure enough he created that chance for Hassli.

Couchy81
09-12-2012, 08:04 PM
well that was a waste of time. we need an overhaul. keep lambe, silva, hassli, kocic, morgan, o'dea and ecks, cut the rest.

[NBF]
09-12-2012, 08:07 PM
The goal came after the Pardo and Fernandes, substitutions. So its a shit goal.

Eastend
09-12-2012, 08:07 PM
Well........

denime
09-12-2012, 08:12 PM
well that was a waste of time. we need an overhaul. keep lambe, silva, hassli, kocic, morgan, o'dea and ecks, cut the rest.

The fish always stinks from the head downwards

I would start with Anselmi,Cochrane,Mariner,Brennan,Bernie, and than deal with players.

Retards like them would be chased out of town anywhere else in the world,they should be thanking god they are in North America.:hulk:

DoubleUp
09-12-2012, 08:27 PM
The fish always stinks from the head downwards

I would start with Anselmi,Cochrane,Mariner,Brennan,Bernie, and than deal with players.

Retards like them would be chased out of town anywhere else in the world,they should be thanking god they are in Toronto.:hulk:
Edit:

front office needs to be blown up. The losing is becoming a culture.:tfc:

Soccerpro
09-12-2012, 08:30 PM
Aaron Maund DM - He's not a DM - case in point, Fire's first goal. Should have started Stinson who IS a DM.

Oldtimer
09-12-2012, 08:32 PM
Cleaning out the FO like RSL did is beyond necessary. However, since the guy in charge of the mess just got promoted, don't expect changes soon enough. But will there be anyone left in the stands after season 7 goes belly up as well?

Suds
09-12-2012, 08:55 PM
First time ever since year one I've left early from a game. Just could not stay and feel like crap in the stands any longer.

I still stand by my my comments many months ago that nothing will change until the people who have presided over years of losing are replaced with people with years of experience winning. Some people know how to win and some do not. The culture is that of losing. Until the lead of this organization is replaced with winners it will be the same.

As for the tactics and play, it's just as bad as it has ever been. There has been zero improvement in style, play, ability as a team or individually, or passion. That lies with the coaching staff in place. A few tweaks my ass.

v00d00daddy
09-12-2012, 09:16 PM
As for the tactics and play, it's just as bad as it has ever been. There has been zero improvement in style, play, ability as a team or individually, or passion. That lies with the coaching staff in place. A few tweaks my ass.

What happened to all the good feelings of optimism from the first few games under Mariner?

Do the current crop of players look more positive tonight than during the last game under Winter?

It was so obvious that this would happen. This style of play will not work. It was never going to yield the results that were supposed to get this team feeling better about themselves.

Promoting Mariner was supposed to be the stop gap and the u turn to get us going in the right direction.

Instead, it's alienated some good players, flat out lost us others and lost us way more supporters than we ever would have lost without the promotion.

Mariner staying and being promoted could turn out to be the worst thing that this club has ever done....and they've done some terrible things.

narduch
09-12-2012, 09:22 PM
That's not a shortened bench. It's five subs plus a goalie in MLS; it's seven in Concacaf tourney play, ala ECL, I believe.

Nope. You are wrong.

It is a shortened bench.

You get to dress 7 subs. It has always been this way since I started following MLS.

Chicago dressed one more player than TFC did.

http://www.mlssoccer.com/matchcenter/2012-09-12-tor-v-chi/rosters

Thomas
09-12-2012, 09:25 PM
Maund, Hall and Emory are a joke. The first half was anemic for TFC. Our mid field sucks. Once the clown (Paul Mariner) brought on Morgan, Avila and Stinson things improved a little. I am glad we got our goal keeper back on the pitch. I really miss Soolsma on the wing.

pawlukj
09-12-2012, 09:28 PM
worst soccer game i have ever watched, i dont know whether to be sad or just laugh at it at this point.. the only guy i see out there who deserves a spot next year is eckersley.. and i'd keep kovermanns and kocic as well, could care less about the rest


seriously getting sick of this losing reputation and money goin down the drain maybe i will just stick to watching my epl on the internet

Mak
09-12-2012, 09:29 PM
I felt bad for missing the game...missed watching too....actually have not attended since July....protesting. My tix are going unused...protesting. Shit show...period. The crowd has to get at Mariner. People on the board have said all the right things tonight. Shitty MLS reject players replaced some decent players...good players have given up...some have been benched. I hope we lose very game we have left....and supporters go over the top at the townhall meetings this year. Mariner has begun to blame the players openly. Winter stated repeatedly that the team lacked quality...nothing was done about it. Mariner claims he had nothing to do with player trades or signings under Winter....fucken bullshit. How would Winter knwo about Andy Iro???? Mariner replaced some good players we rejects....results have been catastrophic. We need to protest.

Mak
09-12-2012, 09:33 PM
I can't believe Stinson hasn't received much playing time under Mariner. I thought he played well under Winter last year. Instead Lambe, Hall, Maund,Amrikwa, Makubya, etc....have all played in front of him. Fucken clown Mariner. The only guy who should have received more playing time under Winter was Silva....everyone else that've mariner has played or brought in are shittier than shit. We would lose to NASL or CSL sides for certain.

crozack
09-12-2012, 09:35 PM
Is it time to bring out the green shirts we wore to protest MLSE again?

69Chevy396
09-12-2012, 09:36 PM
I felt bad for missing the game...missed watching too....actually have not attended since July....protesting. My tix are going unused...protesting. Shit show...period. The crowd has to get at Mariner. People on the board have said all the right things tonight. Shitty MLS reject players replaced some decent players...good players have given up...some have been benched. I hope we lose very game we have left....and supporters go over the top at the townhall meetings this year. Mariner has begun to blame the players openly. Winter stated repeatedly that the team lacked quality...nothing was done about it. Mariner claims he had nothing to do with player trades or signings under Winter....fucken bullshit. How would Winter knwo about Andy Iro???? Mariner replaced some good players we rejects....results have been catastrophic. We need to protest.
The best part of this game was how so few people attended. Beautiful night, perfect conditions, a population of over 5 mill in the gta, and, what, 10k show up? Perfect. This, more than any amount of whining by the media or supporters will help the new owners take a second look at this mess, either by selling it, or improving the product. Has MLSE ever lost money before? The suits will have to use their brains for a change.
The sooner the better or we will see this club move to another city within five years.

West220Side
09-12-2012, 09:36 PM
It's like a practice game for them out there.

Eckersley is really starting to show some weakness at CB

What are you Mariners brother in law? Thats because he's a GOD DAMN RIGHT BACK.
No offence, its just frustrating seeing this talented boy being played out of position with other healthy options at centre back.

narduch
09-12-2012, 09:38 PM
Announced attendance: 14623

I'm pretty sure that's a record low for TFC in a MLS regular season game.

asterix606
09-12-2012, 09:42 PM
It's not all bad! At least we are keeping up with tradition.

As the "Worst team in the world"


I say stop spending your dollars there. Shut the lid on the garbage can for a year!

Open it up for Season 8 and see if it still stinks. If it does wait another year and see.

The smell is already unbearable!

tiberius
09-12-2012, 09:52 PM
Announced attendance: 14623

I'm pretty sure that's a record low for TFC in a MLS regular season game.

"attendance" at BMO includes all tickets sold - this means that at most, there are 14623 season ticket holders, assuming KIA didn't buy a few thousand for this game, or there was some grope-on promotion... or somebody walked up and bought a ticket... Sooo.. it appears that they lied about the 16,000 season tickets sold. Am I missing something?

sully
09-12-2012, 09:55 PM
well that was a waste of time. we need an overhaul. keep lambe, silva, hassli, kocic, morgan, o'dea and ecks, cut the rest.

Agreed (with exception of Morgan maybe). Plus addition of Frings, Frei, Johnson and everyone else out.

narduch
09-12-2012, 09:57 PM
"attendance" at BMO includes all tickets sold

I believe the club claims they announce tickets scanned.

Either way, the numbers always seem to be inflated.

Chevy
09-12-2012, 10:05 PM
That can't be, unless they take some extra tickets into the back room and scan the shit out of them.

Tiberius' post is interesting - if there are 16k season's tickets, you COULDN'T have an announced attendance of lower than that figure. Hmmm.....

TFC07
09-12-2012, 10:06 PM
Wow! A game thread combine with pre/in/post game with only 4 pages of posts? I remember we use to have separate threads for one game now we got one game thread with 4 pages only.

This thread is just proof that TFC is losing interest among hardcore soccer fans.

narduch
09-12-2012, 10:11 PM
That can't be, unless they take some extra tickets into the back room and scan the shit out of them.

Tiberius' post is interesting - if there are 16k season's tickets, you COULDN'T have an announced attendance of lower than that figure. Hmmm.....

In an article a year ago, the club claimed they announce tickets scanned. See linked article:

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/soccer/story/2011/04/18/sp-mls-tfc-attendance.html

Suds
09-12-2012, 10:16 PM
In an article a year ago, the club claimed they announce tickets scanned. See linked article:

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/soccer/story/2011/04/18/sp-mls-tfc-attendance.html

In that article they brush off the low number of +16k in attendance as a one off due to cold weather etc.

One off, eh?

narduch
09-12-2012, 10:21 PM
In that article they brush off the low number of +16k in attendance as a one off due to cold weather etc.

One off, eh?

Until today I think that game was the previous lowest attendance for an MLS regular season game for TFC.

TFC hasn't sold out a single game at BMO Field this season.

Soccerpro
09-12-2012, 10:38 PM
Mariner stated this week he expects all 3 DP's back next year.

TFC is a lot closer to missing the playoffs already next year with that announcement.

I'm sure Mariner will sign more players that other clubs are desperate to unload/waive (ala Hall, Quincy A, Weiner, Hassli), play already crappy players out of position (Maund) overpay to the moon for certain players (Ecks) and continue to lean on the "hustle players" (Dunfield) or just go for players that no MLS team would ever sign (Emory)

Our roster is an absolute disaster. How many of our players, on their current contracts, would other teams pick up? 5? Maybe?

ag futbol
09-12-2012, 10:43 PM
What are you Mariners brother in law? Thats because he's a GOD DAMN RIGHT BACK.
No offence, its just frustrating seeing this talented boy being played out of position with other healthy options at centre back.
Only to the extent I'd be the guy telling my sister to dump the loser. I agree, he should be played in his natural position.

Auzzy
09-12-2012, 10:44 PM
Wow Mariner went nuts on the players in the post-game presser. Tomorrow was supposed to be a day off for the team, instead he's called a practice. So will that motivate them? Maybe he'll have them run laps all day? Should really help with their formation, off-the-ball movement, first touch, awareness, finishing, etc....

So Dear Paul Mariner, after blasting the players, were you at all at fault for any of that shit show? Or are you just the perfect coach, and it's 100% the players' fault?

I'm not prepared to say this & that player should be dropped. We've tried that over 130 times already, it hasn't worked. Sure some of them are probably not good enough, or at least should be subs or reserve players & shouldn't be starting in the first team. But nobody in our current management team should be deciding that. The players REALLY aren't the biggest problem here!

ag futbol
09-12-2012, 10:55 PM
So Dear Paul Mariner, after blasting the players, were you at all at fault for any of that shit show? Or are you just the perfect coach, and it's 100% the players' fault?

My favorite part of today's game was when he was interviewed at the start of the second half and said something to the extent of "the pre-game plan was spot on" or whatever. WTF is that supposed to mean other than him covering his own ass?

The more I think about it, the more he seems like the English version of Mo Johnston. It's always someone else's fault, his tactics are illogical, he's a good drafter but sketchy on everything else signing wise, and he was even given an extension prematurely. Our only saving grace will be when next season starts and we absolutely fall flat on our face. Anybody who consistently rates players who are this terrible is just going to dig a deeper hole.

__wowza
09-12-2012, 11:25 PM
http://www.torontofc.ca/video/2012/09/12/paul-mariner-september-12-2012

reporter: you said we were four players away from a full squad?
mariner: yup.
reporter: what positions? would you care to elaborate on that?
mariner: no. not tonight.

are you fucking kidding me? 4 players away from a full squad? i dont even think he's lying anymore, i think he actually believes that. i can't tell which is worse.

jloome
09-13-2012, 12:54 AM
http://www.torontofc.ca/video/2012/09/12/paul-mariner-september-12-2012

reporter: you said we were four players away from a full squad?
mariner: yup.
reporter: what positions? would you care to elaborate on that?
mariner: no. not tonight.

are you fucking kidding me? 4 players away from a full squad? i dont even think he's lying anymore, i think he actually believes that. i can't tell which is worse.

That whole presser is disgraceful. He doesn't take any responsibility. At all.

He signed these players. He was the director of player personnel who advised the last coach. He built this piece of shit team.

WE don't lack technique. We lack composure, and intelligence. We have a group who are too young and inexperienced to step up, and we have a group that are inexperienced but will never be smart enough to win. And then we have a handful who are good enough.

A handful, at best.

Poorly prepared, poor intelligence on the pitch, tactically inept. He may have all the technical experience and he may motivate reasonably well. But he can't build a team.

jloome
09-13-2012, 12:56 AM
I"m pretty steamed listening to this. He's suggesting it's all down to a lack of "fight", without being honest: when you play people out of position, shift tactics on them halfway through a season and play inexperienced players, they're going to get beaten a lot. And that sucks the fight out of anyone.

He has no self-awareness or humility, is a douchebag, and should fuck off.

narduch
09-13-2012, 05:58 AM
So... what is the winless streak at now?

8 games (2 ties, 6 losses).


My favorite part of today's game was when he was interviewed at the start of the second half and said something to the extent of "the pre-game plan was spot on" or whatever. WTF is that supposed to mean other than him covering his own ass?

The more I think about it, the more he seems like the English version of Mo Johnston. It's always someone else's fault, his tactics are illogical, he's a good drafter but sketchy on everything else signing wise, and he was even given an extension prematurely. Our only saving grace will be when next season starts and we absolutely fall flat on our face. Anybody who consistently rates players who are this terrible is just going to dig a deeper hole.

And the results are getting so bad, that Mariner might have to pull a Mo Johnston and promote himself up to GM (or whatever tittle you want to use) and let someone else coach.

Wouldn't surprise me at all if that happens (might even be the reason why season ticket renewal news is so delayed, maybe they are looking for the new coach).

denime
09-13-2012, 06:21 AM
I want to make two stick for next game(if I find some time),MARINER GTFO

This drunk should be removed from TFC ASAP,it boggles my mind that he got this job extension in the first place,everything I was told about him, proved to be truth.
Great guy to have a pint with,and that's about it.


"Players coach"just throw the whole team under the bus last night,what a drunk douchebag he is.

narduch
09-13-2012, 06:23 AM
The worst part is that all the media are cheerleaders for him.

During the TSN broadcast yesterday it was nauseating to hear Jason De Vos sing Mariner's praises. Saying the team is going in the right direction.

denime
09-13-2012, 06:30 AM
The worst part is that all the media are cheerleaders for him.

During the TSN broadcast yesterday it was nauseating to hear Jason De Vos sing Mariner's praises. Saying the team is going in the right direction.

If the direction is self destruction,than yeah TFC is going in the right direction.
Jason is TSN/BELL employee and he has to say what NEW Owners want him to say,I expect more of that BS as ST renewals are coming.

narduch
09-13-2012, 06:43 AM
If the direction is self destruction,than yeah TFC is going in the right direction.
Jason is TSN/BELL employee and he has to say what NEW Owners want him to say,I expect more of that BS as ST renewals are coming.

He's also a big Earl Cochrane supporter.

__wowza
09-13-2012, 08:11 AM
That whole presser is disgraceful. He doesn't take any responsibility. At all.

He signed these players. He was the director of player personnel who advised the last coach. He built this piece of shit team.

WE don't lack technique. We lack composure, and intelligence. We have a group who are too young and inexperienced to step up, and we have a group that are inexperienced but will never be smart enough to win. And then we have a handful who are good enough.

A handful, at best.

Poorly prepared, poor intelligence on the pitch, tactically inept. He may have all the technical experience and he may motivate reasonably well. But he can't build a team.

what upsets me about this is that a lot of people on the board gave winter shit for "throwing players under the bus". say what you will about winter, but at least he was throwing players under the bus WHILE THEY WERE PLAYING IN THEIR POSITIONS. he can't say that a player didnt do well when he's playing them out of position. that's his fault, not theirs.

to chalk it up to injuries and international duty is a complete write off. other teams have injuries, other teams have players away for international duty. all i've ever heard out of his mouth is a complete failure to accept responsibility for his decisions. when he says that players are being called up and that this should be their time to shine, whose he talking about? hall? emory? maud? we were 3 players off from the starting lineup that he normally dresses!!

i honestly don't know what more to say about mariner.
i think this is the first time that im actually at a loss for words.

Oldtimer
09-13-2012, 08:18 AM
i honestly don't know what more to say about mariner.
i think this is the first time that im actually at a loss for words.

I have some words, "he's by far the worst coach Toronto FC have ever had. The fact that he still is working there is a travesty."

This was obvious to me the first game that he coached that he had no idea what he was doing, he was making basic mistakes that better youth coaches don't make. People called me out on it (after all, I had even given Mo and Winter time), but the truth is now obvious to almost all here.

narduch
09-13-2012, 08:27 AM
to chalk it up to injuries and international duty is a complete write off.

They can't use international duty as an excuse, they moved the goddam game to this date.

If they were ever really concerned about the outcome of this match, they would have left it on July 21, when all our players were available.

Greatest Ripoff
09-13-2012, 08:30 AM
The formation and tactics for the last 20 minutes were odd. It was as if Mariner had a bet with Brennan to see how many players he could have playing out of position. it was interesting and I enjoyed trying to figure out what was going on but did they acquire O'dea to be a centre back or a centre forward? I will also have a mental breakdown if Maund starts ahead of Stinson on Saturday.

rowjimi
09-13-2012, 08:38 AM
I could not make the game last night. I don't like the current management of this team but will always hope for a good result for the team. That being said the presser solidified why I don't think Mariner is the right manager for this team. He will throw anyone under the bus as long as they don't look at him. These players have lost complete faith in this organization and they are in a no win situation. Changing and adding players will not solve what ails this team.

Ultra & Proud
09-13-2012, 08:42 AM
The players REALLY aren't the biggest problem here!
But they are a big part of it. Not like they were lighting it up under Winter either. Typical case of getting a lot of players, some for too much money, with zero MLS experience and negligible levels of skill.

I did not like the Aron Winter world record squad overhaul of last season and hate massive turnover but with this roster I think we need to dump near half of it and add some veteran MLS players to get it competitive. Wouldn't make much difference if Jose Mourinho or Sir Alex were running it. Still wouldn't make the playoffs.

The brass better get on their scouting hats and start looking for players and hit that re-entry waiver draft hard.

Auzzy
09-13-2012, 09:02 AM
But they are a big part of it. Not like they were lighting it up under Winter either. Typical case of getting a lot of players, some for too much money, with zero MLS experience and negligible levels of skill.

I did not like the Aron Winter world record squad overhaul of last season and hate massive turnover but with this roster I think we need to dump near half of it and add some veteran MLS players to get it competitive. Wouldn't make much difference if Jose Mourinho or Sir Alex were running it. Still wouldn't make the playoffs.

The brass better get on their scouting hats and start looking for players and hit that re-entry waiver draft hard.

People have said that almost every year for the past 5 years. We've gotten many MLS veterans that didn't do well here. Lots of players got dumped from TFC & did well elsewhere. The rot sits much deeper.

Which brass? Earl Cochrane?

Suds
09-13-2012, 09:21 AM
The formation and tactics for the last 20 minutes were odd. It was as if Mariner had a bet with Brennan to see how many players he could have playing out of position. it was interesting and I enjoyed trying to figure out what was going on but did they acquire O'dea to be a centre back or a centre forward? I will also have a mental breakdown if Maund starts ahead of Stinson on Saturday.

At this stage I'd like to see many of the young players get some significant minutes. Even if we lose every single game at least I might see a glimmer of hope that we have some young talent on the roster that may come good in the near future. That at the very least may keep me engaged for the rest of the season.

Now that we're officially out it's time to cut loose the dead weight and give the kids some minutes. Reward some of the academy kids who have worked hard and shown promise with some minutes.

Ultra & Proud
09-13-2012, 09:35 AM
People have said that almost every year for the past 5 years. We've gotten many MLS veterans that didn't do well here. Lots of players got dumped from TFC & did well elsewhere. The rot sits much deeper.

Which brass? Earl Cochrane?

We haven't had many MLS veteran players here over the years with proven MLS experience on winning teams who were still good. Guevara would be one and he was good. You look at our roster now and how many MLS vets are we starting? Johnson is one and that's it. Hall isn't what I would call a veteran (or good). We always have a mix mash of players from all over the place who need time to learn what it takes to play MLS football. The ones we get usually flounder here for a while and the team results suffer and then we dump them during a roster overhaul and then they succeed elsewhere. If we did that and stuck with them in years 1 or 2 fine but we keep doing it again and again and it's time to stop. Forget the magical quest to discover this amazing untapped, cheap talent from South America, Bermuda, or lower level African footballing nations and actually sign up some players who everyone knows will succeed straight away. No more rolling the dice with 3/4 of our roster on this type of stuff, DPs included.

And I guess Cochrane is the honcho if all those secret reports are true. I hope not but it seems that way.

reggie
09-13-2012, 09:36 AM
a usl club that charges epl prices..
my seats were empty last night and will be empty the rest of the season.

nfitz
09-13-2012, 09:59 AM
"attendance" at BMO includes all tickets sold - this means that at most, there are 14623 season ticket holders, assuming KIA didn't buy a few thousand for this game, or there was some grope-on promotion... or somebody walked up and bought a ticket... Sooo.. it appears that they lied about the 16,000 season tickets sold. Am I missing something?What you are missing is that attendance doesn't include all tickets sold. Enough people with inside information at the club have said this over the years.

There seemed to be a fair number of tickets sold in the non-season ticket areas. Clearly there were more than 14,623 tickets sold.

cmonyoureds
09-13-2012, 10:07 AM
It's like a practice game for them out there.

Eckersley is really starting to show some weakness at CB

WHOAH...hey now. This guy was close to man of the match out there for many standing around me. He can't play all 4 spots across the back at the same time!!!!! Oh, and the small matter of he's a RB.

The worrying thing is............ok one of the 5 billion worrying things is........after the game he's just sitting on the pitch with a "what do i gotta do" look on his face. Then shuffles out like a dejected, beaten, finished footballer.

We can pay big $'s to have DP's show up to collect a paycheque, but how the hell do we get anyone decent to come here below that DP level? When we can't just throw $'s at them??????
Sure ain't gonna come here to play attractive football.
Won't be to work with a reputable manager.
Not gonna be coming here to play in front of sold out crowds and a good atmosphere.

You'd have to be a moron to sign for this team, so good luck getting those "4" (?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?) players you need Mr. Boardshorts.

Auzzy
09-13-2012, 10:19 AM
We haven't had many MLS veteran players here over the years with proven MLS experience on winning teams who were still good. Guevara would be one and he was good. You look at our roster now and how many MLS vets are we starting? Johnson is one and that's it. Hall isn't what I would call a veteran (or good). We always have a mix mash of players from all over the place who need time to learn what it takes to play MLS football. The ones we get usually flounder here for a while and the team results suffer and then we dump them during a roster overhaul and then they succeed elsewhere. If we did that and stuck with them in years 1 or 2 fine but we keep doing it again and again and it's time to stop. Forget the magical quest to discover this amazing untapped, cheap talent from South America, Bermuda, or lower level African footballing nations and actually sign up some players who everyone knows will succeed straight away. No more rolling the dice with 3/4 of our roster on this type of stuff, DPs included.

And I guess Cochrane is the honcho if all those secret reports are true. I hope not but it seems that way.

So what do you say to the quote from Mariner's post-game presser, that this team is only 4 players away from being a good team?

4 players, that's easy. Nathan Sturgis, there's an MLS veteran, he's playing for Houston now. Maybe Cochrane can re-sign him via the re-entry draft. Or maybe trade another first-round draft pick for him. Mariner can easily pick up another 3 players in his happiest hunting ground, Bermuda. Next season will be truly glorious.

Section 117
09-13-2012, 10:27 AM
I want to know where everyone that bashed Winter and his answers at the pressers are now? They longed to get rid of Winter and now it is silence all I hear is crickets.... I would like for Mariner to explain his tactics or the justification of playing players out of their positions and justify the trade for Hassil. He is a fucking clown, I wish players would throw him under the bus like he throws them under the bus. That would be gold.

I glad that most of the intelligent soccer minds (sarcastic comment) are no longer posting on here as if we listen to them when Preki was tossed we would have been force fed this shit for two years instead of the 6 months that we got. I can't wait till this year ends TFC hits reset for the 7 time.

Beach_Red
09-13-2012, 10:29 AM
So what do you say to the quote from Mariner's post-game presser, that this team is only 4 players away from being a good team?

4 players, that's easy. Nathan Sturgis, there's an MLS veteran, he's playing for Houston now. Maybe Cochrane can re-sign him via the re-entry draft. Or maybe trade another first-round draft pick for him. Mariner can easily pick up another 3 players in his happiest hunting ground, Bermuda. Next season will be truly glorious.

It's really funny when they say that kind of thing. The whole point of MLS is that every team is 4 players away from being the top of the league. That's what the whole single-entity, salary cap, draft - every weird roster rule they have - is for.

MLSE seem to think that parity means every team will take turns being a top team, not that every team has the same opportunities and some will simply be better at it.

Auzzy
09-13-2012, 10:37 AM
"4 players away"

Groundhog Day

Mo Johnston (and a few other guys since then)

ag futbol
09-13-2012, 11:03 AM
So what do you say to the quote from Mariner's post-game presser, that this team is only 4 players away from being a good team?

4 players, that's easy. Nathan Sturgis, there's an MLS veteran, he's playing for Houston now. Maybe Cochrane can re-sign him via the re-entry draft. Or maybe trade another first-round draft pick for him. Mariner can easily pick up another 3 players in his happiest hunting ground, Bermuda. Next season will be truly glorious.
The funny part of it is: look at what other MLS teams did in the window and look what we did. Who improved their team more: TFC or Columbus? Seattle or TFC? LA or TFC? New England or TFC?

That's the ironic thing about the way guys like DeVos and all the rest of Mariner's cheerleader squad cover this team. They just look at what we do in isolation without comparing to anyone else, because when you do, it's not flattering.

FreekAce
09-13-2012, 11:12 AM
The funny part of it is: look at what other MLS teams did in the window and look what we did. Who improved their team more: TFC or Columbus? Seattle or TFC? LA or TFC? New England or TFC?

That's the ironic thing about the way guys like DeVos and all the rest of Mariner's cheerleader squad cover this team. They just look at what we do in isolation without comparing to anyone else, because when you do, it's not flattering.

think thats the problem with the press right there. they only cover the team. nobody other then a couple of good writers we all know through the forums, actually follows the rest of the league.

narduch
09-13-2012, 11:14 AM
Its not even that they only follow the team, they only follow the team when they are at home. Most of their papers just recycle the Associated or Canadian Press articles for our road games.

I wonder if they even watch TFC's road games on TV.

Ultra & Proud
09-13-2012, 11:20 AM
So what do you say to the quote from Mariner's post-game presser, that this team is only 4 players away from being a good team?

4 players, that's easy. Nathan Sturgis, there's an MLS veteran, he's playing for Houston now. Maybe Cochrane can re-sign him via the re-entry draft. Or maybe trade another first-round draft pick for him. Mariner can easily pick up another 3 players in his happiest hunting ground, Bermuda. Next season will be truly glorious.

Well when Sturgis arrived here he had played 61 games previous in MLS. That isn't really what I meant by veteran. He is also isn't what I meant when I said 'good' either. I am thinking of guys who have a solid 5+ years in the league and have played on some playoff teams. Guys like Ned Grabavoy, Chris Wingert, Brad Evans, etc. These guys aren't all flashy like DPs and these exotic signings we get (Lambe, Vitti, etc) but I say you fill out the roster with guys like this and they can certainly help.

And I would say we are realistically 6-7 players away. We at least need 2 proven forwards, 2-3 midfielders (including a solid playmaking AM for sure), and another quality CB.

Out of our roster, the only set in stone returnees for me would be Morgan, Henry, Dunfield, Frei, Silva, Stinson, O' Dea, Ecks, and maybe Johnson depending on how the hunt for forwards go. Also Koevermans if healthy.

jloome
09-13-2012, 11:40 AM
What you are missing is that attendance doesn't include all tickets sold. Enough people with inside information at the club have said this over the years.

There seemed to be a fair number of tickets sold in the non-season ticket areas. Clearly there were more than 14,623 tickets sold.

Football teams that are struggling at the gate traditional comp a TON of tickets to sponsors, so you can't go by the official number, because scanned tickets includes giveaways.

The Columbus Dispatch did a study a few years ago when the Crew were claiming in excess of 14,000 per game, and figured out that fewer than 9,000 were paid.

Rene Kingsriver
09-13-2012, 11:41 AM
I want to know where everyone that bashed Winter and his answers at the pressers are now? They longed to get rid of Winter and now it is silence all I hear is crickets.... I would like for Mariner to explain his tactics or the justification of playing players out of their positions and justify the trade for Hassil. He is a fucking clown, I wish players would throw him under the bus like he throws them under the bus. That would be gold.

I glad that most of the intelligent soccer minds (sarcastic comment) are no longer posting on here as if we listen to them when Preki was tossed we would have been force fed this shit for two years instead of the 6 months that we got. I can't wait till this year ends TFC hits reset for the 7 time.

Winter was a crap coach and shouldn't have got the job in the first place. Mariner is a crap coach and shouldn't have replaced him. Simple, see?

jloome
09-13-2012, 11:42 AM
"4 players away"

Groundhog Day

Mo Johnston (and a few other guys since then)

Translation: "I signed or recommended four starters who aren't good enough."

Any coach who admits nearly half the team he fields isn't competent is admitting, by default, that his own choices aren't competent. But this isn't about logic; I'm not sure anyone above him pays enough attention to even make that connection, and if they do, they figure it reflects badly up the line.

Fucking disgraceful behavior.

ensco
09-13-2012, 11:44 AM
The funny part of it is: look at what other MLS teams did in the window and look what we did. Who improved their team more: TFC or Columbus? Seattle or TFC? LA or TFC? New England or TFC?

That's the ironic thing about the way guys like DeVos and all the rest of Mariner's cheerleader squad cover this team. They just look at what we do in isolation without comparing to anyone else, because when you do, it's not flattering.

Watched Pardo closely last night. What an elegant player. He still has it at 36.

Man, team after team brings in good, non-DP, veteran help on the attack, without giving up assets, let alone first round draft picks, to do it.

Rene Kingsriver
09-13-2012, 11:46 AM
"4 players away"

Groundhog Day

Mo Johnston (and a few other guys since then)

I think Mariner's right we are only 4 players away, that's if the opposition starts with 7 or we start with 15

Derko
09-13-2012, 11:50 AM
TFC Coaches:
http://withfriendship.com/images/h/39010/Wives-of-Henry-VIII-wallpaper.gif


https://encrypted-tbn2.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT_loRXNbf4nHS_RHaQN0BDBY-VqQ9kaIspoosoMh2vkXm02cEH



TFC Management :
http://photos.geni.com/p13/e1/58/ea/e7/5344483a0145b19b/henry_viii_large_t2.jpg

Derko
09-13-2012, 11:55 AM
^ Who was the bad one in this wedding?

craz11
09-13-2012, 11:57 AM
Can we hire Jurgen Klinsmen to tell us to hire more clowns again?

Ajax TFC
09-13-2012, 11:59 AM
I"m pretty steamed listening to this. He's suggesting it's all down to a lack of "fight", without being honest: when you play people out of position, shift tactics on them halfway through a season and play inexperienced players, they're going to get beaten a lot. And that sucks the fight out of anyone.

He has no self-awareness or humility, is a douchebag, and should fuck off.
The players did have fight. But fight only gets you so far. Fight gets you through tournaments, not every game of the season. At some point you have to back that fight up with some skill.



That whole presser is disgraceful. He doesn't take any responsibility. At all.

He signed these players. He was the director of player personnel who advised the last coach. He built this piece of shit team.

WE don't lack technique. We lack composure, and intelligence. We have a group who are too young and inexperienced to step up, and we have a group that are inexperienced but will never be smart enough to win. And then we have a handful who are good enough.

A handful, at best.

Poorly prepared, poor intelligence on the pitch, tactically inept. He may have all the technical experience and he may motivate reasonably well. But he can't build a team.
We had a lot more players who were good enough, but he chased almost all of them away, and benched the rest.

The players he got rid of who were good enough, or better than their replacements are:
Soolsma
de Guzman
Plata
and the one everyone forgets about, but is still better than what we currently have: Burgos Jr.

The players we have who are good enough and not over paid are:
Avila, Silva, Lambe, Morgan (maybe O'dea depending on his salary). IMO those are the only players that could play on another MLS team. Henry is also a good player with a huge upside in that he's really young. Oddly Silva is the only one of those players that starts. Avila is the most skilled player and has the best eyes on the team, and he rides the bench

jloome
09-13-2012, 11:59 AM
You know, he's technically right. We do have seven decent starters for this league's level.

The problem is, the four players missing are all KEY positions. And beyond that, we have no depth. In this league, the guy behind the starter has to be as competent, or almost as competent, because he's going to play a lot.

We're not just missing four players, we're missing three players and ANY depth.

I'd also argue he doesn't know who the players are, as I will again state unequivocably that Terry Dunfield is not a starter in this league, but Mariner thinks he is.

If we started with these players in position and the 'x's filled by genuine starters, we'd be very competitive .... until internationals, an injury or any other depth issue derailed it.

-------------frei/kocic------------
Eck---NEW CB-----O'Dea--Morgan
-----------NEW HOLDER-------------
Lambe---------------------NEW WINGER
------------Silva-----------------
-----Hassli----Koevermans---------------

That's a really good team, by MLS standards, depending on who fills those holes. Lambe is badly underrated by fans, I think.

Johnston is good depth, but doesn't play defence and isn't a striker.
Dunfield is decent depth
Stinson is decent depth
Cann is decent depth

But we need another two-way mid for depth, another winger (preferably two-footed) for depth, a fullback for depth (get rid of Jeremy Hall, who is atrocious) and at least two strikers for depth who are hungry, as both Koevermans and Hassli are at a fragile age.

In one respect, Mariner is right. It's fixable. But the problem is, they look unprepared as a team, and it's not just because of a few poor role players, it's because there is no drive to win. We saw modicums of skill in the second half against Chicago. But Mariner couldn't get that out of them before the game started, and then anchored them down by playing Aaron Maund as our starting DM and Hall at fullback. As suspected, both were violated like a POW.

If he can't see that, he's just not the guy. Besides, he built this pile of shit.

ensco
09-13-2012, 12:07 PM
^I don't think a winning MlS team plays and pays both Hassli and Koevermans.

Terrible use of 2 DP slots. They are so similar. No system works with two big target men. It doesn't make sense.

ag futbol
09-13-2012, 12:07 PM
^ Jloome I agree with most of what you have there but I still think we'll require a few extra tweaks. I think it's easy to forget that Lambe is 21 and he should improve quite a bit year-to-year. That being said, I'd push him to the bench for now and look for someone who is more consistent game-to-game. As Lambe gets better or hits form he can probably replace whoever is starting on a permanent basis. Also get the sneaking suspicion that Koevermans will not want to come back.


The players did have fight. But fight only gets you so far. Fight gets you through tournaments, not every game of the season. At some point you have to back that fight up with some skill.

We're working really hard at rubbing two sticks together while the other teams are using matches. Mariner in a nutshell.

Oldtimer
09-13-2012, 12:08 PM
Can we hire Jurgen Klinsmen to tell us to hire more clowns again?

I don't blame him at all for this mess. For all we know, Winter and Mariner were #29 and #30 on his list of coaches to hire.

Anselmi is the only constant in the 6 years of failure and ripping off fans.

ag futbol
09-13-2012, 12:09 PM
^I don't think a winning MlS team plays and pays both Hassli and Koevermans.

Terrible use of 2 DP slots. They are so similar. No system works with two big target men. It doesn't make sense.
I'm not sure how it would play out, but Hassli has many features that make him less of a traditional big guy who plays up top.

I agree though, it would be hard to have both these guys on the field at the same time. We would be much better off spending that money on a left sided midfielder or a striker who plays off the target man.

Ultra & Proud
09-13-2012, 12:14 PM
^I don't think a winning MlS team plays and pays both Hassli and Koevermans.

Terrible use of 2 DP slots. They are so similar. No system works with two big target men. It doesn't make sense.

I wouldn't even think about bringing Hassli back as a DP. Maybe $220k tops. Preferably less than $200k. His numbers reflect that pay level.

And I also don't think Koevermans and Hassli are alike at all minus being big. One uses a lot of movement off the ball and stays in a poaching position when we are on the offensive while the other likes to have his back to goal and plays much deeper than Koevermans. They could work well together but I would in no way eat up almost $700k in cap space to do it.

v00d00daddy
09-13-2012, 12:14 PM
Watched Pardo closely last night. What an elegant player. He still has it at 36.

Man, team after team brings in good, non-DP, veteran help on the attack, without giving up assets, let alone first round draft picks, to do it.


Thought the same thing.

Unfortunately this coaching staff (and the majority of the hardcore fanbase here) wouldn't appreciate a player like him.

TFC Tifoso
09-13-2012, 12:15 PM
I don't blame him at all for this mess. For all we know, Winter and Mariner were #29 and #30 on his list of coaches to hire.

Anselmi is the only constant in the 6 years of failure and ripping off fans.

I've been reading and agreeing with you a lot lately, but you're wrong here.....Anselmi is not the only one.....................................can't forget Earl Cochrane and Paul Beirne :yesnod::wink:

zamperina
09-13-2012, 12:17 PM
Not only has TFC set the MLS record for missing the playoffs for 6 straight seasons it is also on pace to be actually worse than in its 1st season. Here are the stats. The would need 4 pts. in there next 2 games to equal the expansion season. This may just be the worst TFC has ever been...

Year Points 30 game season
2007 25pts.
2008 35pts.
2009 39pts.
2010 35pts.
2011 33pts. 34 game season
2012 21pts. 28 of 34 games so far

Ultra & Proud
09-13-2012, 12:23 PM
Not only has TFC set the MLS record for missing the playoffs for 6 straight seasons it is also on pace to be actually worse than in its 1st season. Here are the stats. The would need 4 pts. in there next 2 games to equal the expansion season. This may just be the worst TFC has ever been...

Year Points 30 game season
2007 25pts.
2008 35pts.
2009 39pts.
2010 35pts.
2011 33pts. 34 game season
2012 21pts. 28 of 34 games so far
Realistically finishing with less than 25 points would probably be for the best. We'd get assured of that league loser allocation money, we get the 1st Superdraft pick, and we get to hear/see what spin the brass can put on this to make season tickets sell. Honestly, who cares what points we end with? Last year I gave up on following the standings in September and I gave up this year in August. Having a late surge (not that we could manage that) would give the talking heads a carrot to wag for next year and insist that little changes need to be made. This happens for the Jays and Leafs all the time. Play good when eliminated or close to elimination and then the management sells how that run will continue next year and it never does. I would prefer to not give the FO an easy out on this.

Beach_Red
09-13-2012, 12:23 PM
I don't blame him at all for this mess. For all we know, Winter and Mariner were #29 and #30 on his list of coaches to hire.

Anselmi is the only constant in the 6 years of failure and ripping off fans.


It would be really interesting to see that report, see what we got for our money.

ag futbol
09-13-2012, 12:38 PM
It would be really interesting to see that report, see what we got for our money.
Something definitely went on there. Remember how long it took to get the process done and how there were a bunch of rumors mid way?

If I had to guess, I'd say that Klinsman came in and Anselmi was probably set with the idea of having Dasovic and Cochrane run the show. At that point it was probably consulting 101: getting paid to provide the solution that the dumb client wants, rather than what's right. Klinsman brings in a bunch of other realistic candidates just to do diligence, but TFC doesn't pay much attention because they are set with the idea they started with. Cochrane fucks up the Dero / Celtic episode and Anselmi has a re-think about what to do. TFC is in the awkward position of either re-approaching the candidates they rejected previously or finding someone new on short notice. Winter / De Clerk / Mariner get put together on short notice and the marketing department takes it from there.

Pure speculation, but I just have a really hard time believing they went through an extensive process start to finish and that's what they came up with. Better names were being tossed around the rumor mill previously and they eventually went away... You have to wonder why things turned out the way they did.

Ajax TFC
09-13-2012, 12:38 PM
-------------frei/kocic------------
Eck---NEW CB-----O'Dea--Morgan
-----------NEW HOLDER-------------
Lambe---------------------NEW WINGER
------------Silva-----------------
-----Hassli----Koevermans---------------

IMO Henry can be that other CB to partner O'Dea. Also I think if Avila could take a more defensive approach to his game, he would be a class DM. I think with Morgan you could play without a left winger and play with a more central midfielder instead

denime
09-13-2012, 12:41 PM
Realistically finishing with less than 25 points would probably be for the best. We'd get assured of that league loser allocation money, we get the 1st Superdraft pick, and we get to hear/see what spin the brass can put on this to make season tickets sell. Honestly, who cares what points we end with? Last year I gave up on following the standings in September and I gave up this year in August. Having a late surge (not that we could manage that) would give the talking heads a carrot to wag for next year and insist that little changes need to be made. This happens for the Jays and Leafs all the time. Play good when eliminated or close to elimination and then the management sells how that run will continue next year and it never does. I would prefer to not give the FO an easy out on this.

Did we(Mariner) traded that pick for Haslli?

Ultra & Proud
09-13-2012, 12:44 PM
Did we(Mariner) traded that pick for Haslli?

Nope 2014 superdraft. That's why I never got why people freaked out about that so much. Unless of course we're here next September doing the same talk.

Ajax TFC
09-13-2012, 12:44 PM
^no, we traded the 2014 first overall pick. not that it matters since Mariner will just pick the hardest working player at the draft with the first pick

denime
09-13-2012, 12:45 PM
Something definitely went on there. Remember how long it took to get the process done and how there were a bunch of rumors mid way?

If I had to guess, I'd say that Klinsman came in and Anselmi was probably set with the idea of having Dasovic and Cochrane run the show. At that point it was probably consulting 101: getting paid to provide the solution that the dumb client wants, rather than what's right. Klinsman brings in a bunch of other realistic candidates just to do diligence, but TFC doesn't pay much attention because they are set with the idea they started with. Cochrane fucks up the Dero / Celtic episode and Anselmi has a re-think about what to do. TFC is in the awkward position of either re-approaching the candidates they rejected previously or finding someone new on short notice. Winter / De Clerk / Mariner get put together on short notice and the marketing department takes it from there.

Pure speculation, but I just have a really hard time believing they went through an extensive process start to finish and that's what they came up with. Better names were being tossed around the rumor mill previously and they eventually went away... You have to wonder why things turned out the way they did.

Try this,Mariner got hired by Cochrane before Klinsman idea came around,since they are stuck with Mariner they go for the cheap one and out of contract and hire Winter,that way they can afford two coaches/Technical directors/players managers/input title here.

Pookie
09-13-2012, 12:46 PM
Did we(Mariner) traded that pick for Haslli?


No, that's 2014.

In 2013, we traded the 2nd round pick to Dallas for Jeremy Hall. We also traded an unspecified draft pick (round and year) to NYRB for Amerikwa. That could be in 2013.

Derko
09-13-2012, 01:02 PM
Thought the same thing.

Unfortunately this coaching staff (and the majority of the hardcore fanbase here) wouldn't appreciate a player like him.

I don't know about that, how can any football fan not appreciate an elegant, sublime, gifted player.

Smokecell
09-13-2012, 01:07 PM
yesterday was possibly the worst game I watched all season. It baffles me that this team apparently doesn't get the concept of passing and running into space. Everyone is stationary and afraid to move it seems. HORRIBLE football on display. I don't know if the tactics dictate such play or whatnot but it was absolute garbage. I'd much rather still be watching Winter try to build something than Mariner put out a sluggish side that is painful to watch. I'd love to renew but I just don't see any direction for this team and it's gotten to the point where it's just plain ridiculous and I'm unable to justify the cost and time spent on this anymore. I may be better suited supporting from a television next season...sad really.

Canary10
09-13-2012, 01:15 PM
Try this,Mariner got hired by Cochrane before Klinsman idea came around,since they are stuck with Mariner they go for the cheap one and out of contract and hire Winter,that way they can afford two coaches/Technical directors/players managers/input title here.

I wouldn't be surprised if Cochrane hired Mariner to be the head coach before Klinsmann reported. Then through the Klinsmann process they found Winter, hired him and overruled Cochrane, and found a new title for Mariner. Also wouldn't be surprised if, in finding Mariner a new title, they promised him he was the coach in waiting if it went bad with Winter.

In reading about Mariner's time at Plymouth, I always wondered why he left an assistant coaching position (even if he was demoted to it), to take a player development position. That's really a backward move if what he wanted was to be a head coach (which is clearly what he wanted). And remember, there were rumours he was the head coach prior to the announcement of Winter. I really don't think he was initially hired to be director of player development. Pure speculation though.

v00d00daddy
09-13-2012, 01:22 PM
I don't know about that, how can any football fan not appreciate an elegant, sublime, gifted player.

Look at the wall of fame.

LOL

Derko
09-13-2012, 01:25 PM
Look at the wall of fame.

LOL

True

Ultra & Proud
09-13-2012, 01:28 PM
I don't know about that, how can any football fan not appreciate an elegant, sublime, gifted player.
There are a whole lot of people who just like style and/or name over substance.

Example - best technical player we had this year - Soolsma. Lots of people liked him but more than a fair share went on about him being slow as hell, can't score, being useless. He was on plenty of threads where folks talked about who to dump from TFC. He is exactly what any team in this league can use, especially ours. Great moves, smart, and almost always beat his man on the wing despite being slower than pretty much any fullback he'd line up against.

On the other side of the coin you have Frings and Ecks/RJ.

Frings, who played very poorly all season, possibly due to injury but people still go on about him being the best player we have and chant Frings, Frings, Frings, Frings over and over and go on about how he is awesome and how his free kicks are our best chance to score, etc. All due to his name.

And Eckersley or Johnson, both similar in the fact that they give 110% every match and make their fair share of errors. They will provide a moment or two of flash each per match and that little bit of flash will override some people's objectivity and make the errors, no matter how costly, go unnoticed.

TO loves two types of players; big name flashy types and lunch bucket types who work their asses off. Everyone else is just filler.

FreekAce
09-13-2012, 01:29 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if Cochrane hired Mariner to be the head coach before Klinsmann reported. Then through the Klinsmann process they found Winter, hired him and overruled Cochrane, and found a new title for Mariner. Also wouldn't be surprised if, in finding Mariner a new title, they promised him he was the coach in waiting if it went bad with Winter.

In reading about Mariner's time at Plymouth, I always wondered why he left an assistant coaching position (even if he was demoted to it), to take a player development position. That's really a backward move if what he wanted was to be a head coach (which is clearly what he wanted). And remember, there were rumours he was the head coach prior to the announcement of Winter. I really don't think he was initially hired to be director of player development. Pure speculation though.

if that is indeed the case then Winter never stood a chance to begin with. tough when you have to rely on a person to teach you the ropes of a league, and obtain the players you need when that same person is gunning for your job.
that makes one wonder if Mariners plan at any point was to have things succeed under Winter.
im not one for conspiracy theories, but its hard to imagine Mariner not going for the top spot if this was indeed the case.

spark
09-13-2012, 02:13 PM
Try this,Mariner got hired by Cochrane before Klinsman idea came around,since they are stuck with Mariner they go for the cheap one and out of contract and hire Winter,that way they can afford two coaches/Technical directors/players managers/input title here.

Haha I've pretty much thought that since day one. Look it pretty much already happened with the Dasovic/Cummins debacle - so we already know at the 11th hour they can change their minds and turn what looked to be a lock upside down. People were convinced it was Mariner who was going to be the head coach - 100% - but as many thought, it was probably Cochrane who pulled that gem together and after the De Ro biz Tom was probably not feeling good about the situation (and likely on the hook for a Mariner contract) whipped this Dream Team together. Money well spent.

jloome
09-13-2012, 02:45 PM
I think San Jose would argue that. Size and athleticism count for a lot in this league, and they've been very effective late in games with lengart and Gordon on together.

Besides a) Hassli is a poacher, not a target man. He's an opportunist who is better with feet than head, and b) depending on allocation allowance I'm not sure he'd have to be a dp.

I think Hassli is underrated and any time a team inbaleague of MLS' calibre can put two guys of that quality out there together, they should.

The problem I see with it is their relative frailty.

Ultra & Proud
09-13-2012, 03:02 PM
b) depending on allocation allowance I'm not sure he'd have to be a dp.
Probably not but I would want him to take a significant pay cut and save the allocation. His numbers over the past two seasons, combined with his age and health, to me say he is no more than a $200K player. Maybe $250 tops. I don't want us dumping allocation and cap space around to magically become competitive for a season and then have it all crumble when the allocation meter runs out ala Mo.

Ajax TFC
09-13-2012, 03:08 PM
I think he would demand a raise if anything to stay here. Why would any player with no connection to the team take a pay cut to play here. I doubt he even wanted to come here in the first place. De Guzman was a player that wwe had a chance of signing for sub-DP money and instead they gave him away for Weideman

nonc
09-13-2012, 03:32 PM
notice who created our goal, again. Lambe and Silva. respect this duo.

Ultra & Proud
09-13-2012, 03:33 PM
I think he would demand a raise if anything to stay here. Why would any player with no connection to the team take a pay cut to play here. I doubt he even wanted to come here in the first place. De Guzman was a player that wwe had a chance of signing for sub-DP money and instead they gave him away for Weideman
If he wants to still play profession football he may have no choice. Who's gonna pay him near $1m to play? No one because he isn't worth it.

v00d00daddy
09-13-2012, 04:02 PM
Finally got around to watching Mariners post game press conference.

For the love of God. Can a reporter please ask him a simple question:

"Paul, do you think your tactical approach will win you games...and if so, why?"

He complains that the link up play was poor. No fucking kidding bud. You're forcing your team to do all they're creating in a 30 yard space from midfield to the top of the box. You're asking a guy to fight for 50/50 balls while his teammates have to flat out guess where they should be because it's near impossible to expect guys to win balls against central defenders and defensive midfielders AND make a proper first decision when the players they should have as outlets have no idea where the ball is going to go. They have no clue where to be. They spend the whole game running back into their own half and then having to run back to midfield and knock down balls with players all over them.

The opposition never has to worry. The opposition is happy to see TFC playing this way. It's soooooo easy. And when Chicago won the ball they knew exactly where it was going...two and three moves ahead.

We win the ball and guys put their heads down and run towards goal. NOBODY supports their teammate when he's won the ball.

I can't believe how much this looks like a BAD rep youth team.

Then he drones on about seizing your opportunity when given the chance.....wow. If I were a player like Avila I'd tell him to fuck off. Flat out. Avila is supposed to sit there, totally marginalized and then you expect him to want to play for you? Are you joking?

Guys...when he talked about wanting the players to play balls into the "channel", whats he referring to?

Lastly, he needs to STFU with his Ipswich this, and Highbury that. I don't give a fuck what he'd do if he was out there. He's a dinosaur. He has no credibility with me. He talks about being a professional.....pfff.

There is almost nothing professional about this guy....except maybe the studs he wears on the touch line. He rants and raves.....makes decisions for the players out there (and they're shitty decisions at that) and he can't even try and be objective about what he sees out there.

We "dominated the play after conceding the first goal"?????

What?

It's funny that he says that everybody has to be accountable....but never once mentions himself.

Please journalists....grow a pair and ask him if he thinks he's doing a good job.

ag futbol
09-13-2012, 04:38 PM
If he wants to still play profession football he may have no choice. Who's gonna pay him near $1m to play? No one because he isn't worth it.
Maybe not a million, but with an EU passport and playing in the spot he does he can easily earn low-mid hundreds in one of the peripheral leagues in Europe. He's going to be out of our price range if we don't offer up a DP slot.

There are a lot of guys who are on their last stop before not playing professional football on TFC, but Hassli isn't one of them.

nonc
09-13-2012, 04:52 PM
Finally got around to watching Mariners post game press conference.

For the love of God. Can a reporter please ask him a simple question:

"Paul, do you think your tactical approach will win you games...and if so, why?"

He complains that the link up play was poor. No fucking kidding bud. You're forcing your team to do all they're creating in a 30 yard space from midfield to the top of the box. You're asking a guy to fight for 50/50 balls while his teammates have to flat out guess where they should be because it's near impossible to expect guys to win balls against central defenders and defensive midfielders AND make a proper first decision when the players they should have as outlets have no idea where the ball is going to go. They have no clue where to be. They spend the whole game running back into their own half and then having to run back to midfield and knock down balls with players all over them.

The opposition never has to worry. The opposition is happy to see TFC playing this way. It's soooooo easy. And when Chicago won the ball they knew exactly where it was going...two and three moves ahead.

We win the ball and guys put their heads down and run towards goal. NOBODY supports their teammate when he's won the ball.

I can't believe how much this looks like a BAD rep youth team.

Then he drones on about seizing your opportunity when given the chance.....wow. If I were a player like Avila I'd tell him to fuck off. Flat out. Avila is supposed to sit there, totally marginalized and then you expect him to want to play for you? Are you joking?

Guys...when he talked about wanting the players to play balls into the "channel", whats he referring to?

Lastly, he needs to STFU with his Ipswich this, and Highbury that. I don't give a fuck what he'd do if he was out there. He's a dinosaur. He has no credibility with me. He talks about being a professional.....pfff.

There is almost nothing professional about this guy....except maybe the studs he wears on the touch line. He rants and raves.....makes decisions for the players out there (and they're shitty decisions at that) and he can't even try and be objective about what he sees out there.

We "dominated the play after conceding the first goal"?????

What?

It's funny that he says that everybody has to be accountable....but never once mentions himself.

Please journalists....grow a pair and ask him if he thinks he's doing a good job.

some rants are unreadable but i enjoyed this one.

narduch
09-13-2012, 04:57 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if Cochrane hired Mariner to be the head coach before Klinsmann reported. Then through the Klinsmann process they found Winter, hired him and overruled Cochrane, and found a new title for Mariner. Also wouldn't be surprised if, in finding Mariner a new title, they promised him he was the coach in waiting if it went bad with Winter.

In reading about Mariner's time at Plymouth, I always wondered why he left an assistant coaching position (even if he was demoted to it), to take a player development position. That's really a backward move if what he wanted was to be a head coach (which is clearly what he wanted). And remember, there were rumours he was the head coach prior to the announcement of Winter. I really don't think he was initially hired to be director of player development. Pure speculation though.

Just to add to your theory, I think the 3-year extension was written into his contract. Making him head coach triggered the 3-year extension.

v00d00daddy
09-13-2012, 05:38 PM
some rants are unreadable but i enjoyed this one.

Haha thanks. I need to stop with the stream of consciousness stuff.

Do you happen to know what Mariner means by asking the players to "play the ball into the channel"?

Is he referring to a particular part of the field? It's not a term I've heard before

Ajax TFC
09-13-2012, 05:40 PM
If he wants to still play profession football he may have no choice. Who's gonna pay him near $1m to play? No one because he isn't worth it.
my point isn't that he wouldn't accept a smaller contract, my point is that he might not accept a smaller contract from TFC. If a team with any sort of a reputation (and it's not hard to have a better rep than TFC) offers him the same amount as TFC, he would have no reason to stay here. To put it into perspective, you play in europe for 500k for a team that barely survived relegation. That team then offers you a 200k contract. meanwhile, a team that was competing at the top of the league and secured a EL spot offers you the same 200k. Would you not go to the more competitive team in a heartbeat? I sure as hell would.

jloome
09-13-2012, 05:43 PM
Yeah, it's the open space designed to be played into with long passes, usually by wingers, forwards and fullbacks, although tactically there should be channels created in every area of the pitch. Open space by design, basically, to take advantage of holes in coverage or mismatches in speed .

Rene Kingsriver
09-13-2012, 05:52 PM
Haha thanks. I need to stop with the stream of consciousness stuff.

Do you happen to know what Mariner means by asking the players to "play the ball into the channel"?

Is he referring to a particular part of the field? It's not a term I've heard before

The channel was always the gap between the central defenders and the full-back when I played but having seen Mariner's tactics he probably means the English channel

v00d00daddy
09-13-2012, 06:18 PM
Yeah, it's the open space designed to be played into with long passes, usually by wingers, forwards and fullbacks, although tactically there should be channels created in every area of the pitch. Open space by design, basically, to take advantage of holes in coverage or mismatches in speed .

Oh okay. That makes sense. Seems like football 101...given a name. I thought exploiting space and match ups was elementary football. It's not something you should have to teach pros.


The channel was always the gap between the central defenders and the full-back when I played but having seen Mariner's tactics he probably means the English channel

This is more specific. Might be an issue with TFC considering they have a bad midfielder playing at RB and central defenders that treat the ball like a grenade. Lol

It's no surprise that Morgan looks so frustrated. One of the youngest guys on the team seems like the only defender who understands his role in advancing the ball and linking with the creative players in the midfield (of which we only have 1.5 in Silva and sometimes Lambe)

tfc2008
09-13-2012, 06:56 PM
You guys complain complain complain, and good reason but you guys are still so stuppid to go and watch the games.

TorontoGooner
09-13-2012, 07:01 PM
You guys complain complain complain, and good reason but you guys are still so stuppid to go and watch the games.

I love the irony that "stupid" is spelled wrong here

ryan
09-13-2012, 07:08 PM
Finally got around to watching Mariners post game press conference.

For the love of God. Can a reporter please ask him a simple question:

"Paul, do you think your tactical approach will win you games...and if so, why?"

He complains that the link up play was poor. No fucking kidding bud. You're forcing your team to do all they're creating in a 30 yard space from midfield to the top of the box. You're asking a guy to fight for 50/50 balls while his teammates have to flat out guess where they should be because it's near impossible to expect guys to win balls against central defenders and defensive midfielders AND make a proper first decision when the players they should have as outlets have no idea where the ball is going to go. They have no clue where to be. They spend the whole game running back into their own half and then having to run back to midfield and knock down balls with players all over them.

The opposition never has to worry. The opposition is happy to see TFC playing this way. It's soooooo easy. And when Chicago won the ball they knew exactly where it was going...two and three moves ahead.

We win the ball and guys put their heads down and run towards goal. NOBODY supports their teammate when he's won the ball.

I can't believe how much this looks like a BAD rep youth team.

Then he drones on about seizing your opportunity when given the chance.....wow. If I were a player like Avila I'd tell him to fuck off. Flat out. Avila is supposed to sit there, totally marginalized and then you expect him to want to play for you? Are you joking?

Guys...when he talked about wanting the players to play balls into the "channel", whats he referring to?

Lastly, he needs to STFU with his Ipswich this, and Highbury that. I don't give a fuck what he'd do if he was out there. He's a dinosaur. He has no credibility with me. He talks about being a professional.....pfff.

There is almost nothing professional about this guy....except maybe the studs he wears on the touch line. He rants and raves.....makes decisions for the players out there (and they're shitty decisions at that) and he can't even try and be objective about what he sees out there.

We "dominated the play after conceding the first goal"?????

What?

It's funny that he says that everybody has to be accountable....but never once mentions himself.

Please journalists....grow a pair and ask him if he thinks he's doing a good job.

I oft find myself just nodding in agreement at all your posts. Slight bro crush developing here.


As for your last comment, paging Mr Molinaro. Where is my favourite TFC reporter? I know he'll do it. The rest of the media is so far up TFC's ass you can't expect anything legit from them.

tiberius
09-13-2012, 07:09 PM
In an article a year ago, the club claimed they announce tickets scanned. See linked article:

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/soccer/story/2011/04/18/sp-mls-tfc-attendance.html

I see no claim by TFC of tickets scanned in this article? The article makes an unattributed claim that 20,000 tickets were sold, while "attendance" was announced at 16,300.


What you are missing is that attendance doesn't include all tickets sold. Enough people with inside information at the club have said this over the years.

There seemed to be a fair number of tickets sold in the non-season ticket areas. Clearly there were more than 14,623 tickets sold.

Enough inside people??? Just open your eyes and look at the stands!!! I have no idea what you are talking about - last night there is no way BMO was 1/2 full - 1/3 full? 8000 bums in seats was the absolute tops - look at the game in six - there is more empty than full by far - take your time to review - I bet there were not 8K there last night. If there are 8000 bums in the seats, that leave 6600 tickets unaccounted for - that is the season ticket holders who paid for the game and didn't show up - pretty easy to see what they are up to, with their "attendance" numbers. I stand by my math - there are only about 14,000 Season tickets (if that!) sold for last night's game , plus the folk in 104 and the odd giveaway. If someone has a better number for season ticket holders, please make sure you somehow account for at least 6000 ghosts who magically got counted for last nights game, but some how got lost on the way to their seats. Washroom line ups???

Auzzy
09-13-2012, 07:24 PM
You guys complain complain complain, and good reason but you guys are still so stuppid to go and watch the games.

Thanks for your valuable contribution to this conversation. Stuppid is as stuppid writes.

nonc
09-13-2012, 07:36 PM
Oh okay. That makes sense. Seems like football 101...given a name. I thought exploiting space and match ups was elementary football. It's not something you should have to teach pros.



This is more specific. Might be an issue with TFC considering they have a bad midfielder playing at RB and central defenders that treat the ball like a grenade. Lol

It's no surprise that Morgan looks so frustrated. One of the youngest guys on the team seems like the only defender who understands his role in advancing the ball and linking with the creative players in the midfield (of which we only have 1.5 in Silva and sometimes Lambe)

Eckersley being stuck at CB is SO annoying.

v00d00daddy
09-13-2012, 08:36 PM
I oft find myself just nodding in agreement at all your posts. Slight bro crush developing here.


As for your last comment, paging Mr Molinaro. Where is my favourite TFC reporter? I know he'll do it. The rest of the media is so far up TFC's ass you can't expect anything legit from them.

Thanks for the kind words. I definitely need to streamline my thoughts a lot more though. This team just brings out the worst in me these days. LOL

And yeah. Molinaro is probably the only mainstream media guy that I put faith in when it comes to asking the tough questions.


Eckersley being stuck at CB is SO annoying.

Agreed. Not that I like him all that much at RB either but the reasons for him being in at CB don't cut it for me. His compete level is off the charts but he is lacking in so many other departments that I'd rather see somebody else in there (even if they're not great) as opposed to a player that I don't think has the necessary skills to ever be an effective CB.

nfitz
09-14-2012, 11:49 AM
Just open your eyes and look at the stands!!!I was at the games. I saw what I saw. I guestimated there was about 14,000 attending, and wondered how they would get away with the 18,000 announcement, and was surprised that the announced number matched about what I was seeing.

We know season tickets peaked at about 16,000. There'd be another 1,000 more in the partials, and at least another 1,000 sold to this - probably more. To believe that the 14,000 announced number was sold tickets, would imply that season ticket sales are below 12,000. And there weren't enough flagged seats at the last season seat redistribution to believe that there were 4,000 unsold season tickets this year.

I'm not saying that I'm 100% sure the number announced is the actual attendance (though there is some evidence of this over the years). I'm only saying that the number announced is clearly less than the ticket sales.

tiberius
09-14-2012, 02:39 PM
I was at the games. I saw what I saw. I guestimated there was about 14,000 attending, and wondered how they would get away with the 18,000 announcement, and was surprised that the announced number matched about what I was seeing.

Being at the game does not mean you can count. I reiterate - you did not see 14000 people - your crowd counting abilities are not very good - look at the game in 6 and look at the many, many crowd shots at different times in the game - for every two people in the stands, there are 3-4 empty seats accompanying them - plus wide gaps with NO PEOPLE. BMO capacity is only 22K or so. Even the supporter areas were severely under populated. There is no way that last Friday's Panama game (17K actual real attendance) can begin to compare to Wednesday's game - come on, not even close.


We know season tickets peaked at about 16,000. There'd be another 1,000 more in the partials, and at least another 1,000 sold to this - probably more. To believe that the 14,000 announced number was sold tickets, would imply that season ticket sales are below 12,000.

You are finally getting it - you were lied to again - what a surprise!:facepalm: You don't "know" anything - you are "told" things by marketers who have a vested interest in fooling you, creating hype, projecting scarcity of their product. Or perhaps you were told from a friend of a friend of a friend who works at MLSE - in other words you got the marketing hype through the MLSE telephone game... I think your "partial pack" and "walk up numbers are a bit high, but even if they are in the ballpark, it pegs Season Ticket holder count at 12,000-13,000 - it looks like we at least agree on the final number...g:D



And there weren't enough flagged seats at the last season seat redistribution to believe that there were 4,000 unsold season tickets this year.

You make a mistake going by flagged seats.... again, it is in MLSE interest to project scarcity, even during redistribution - if they have 8-10 tickets in a row, or area, available, it would not hurt them a bit to leave six of them unflagged, until the other 4 are taken... smoke and mirrors my friend... smoke and mirrors


I'm not saying that I'm 100% sure the number announced is the actual attendance (though there is some evidence of this over the years). I'm only saying that the number announced is clearly less than the ticket sales.

Actual sold and attendence look about the same when the stadium is close to full - hence the impression that announced attendance is what goes through the gate... The proof of the pudding on what is really going on is when the stadium is empty... then you get to see how they play with numbers and what actual season ticket counts looks like.

nfitz
09-14-2012, 03:15 PM
You make a mistake going by flagged seats.... again, it is in MLSE interest to project scarcity, even during redistribution - if they have 8-10 tickets in a row, or area, available, it would not hurt them a bit to leave six of them unflagged, until the other 4 are taken... smoke and mirrors my friend... smoke and mirrorsAnd yet there were sections of the stadium where there many seats available.

You've succumbed to tin-hat syndrome, I'm afraid.

tiberius
09-14-2012, 03:54 PM
And yet there were sections of the stadium where there many seats available.

You've succumbed to tin-hat syndrome, I'm afraid.

https://encrypted-tbn1.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSE8TbOw1issVIr5hpu7gSYEMIqqdFH-pWHrwe0yqKnElZaA00S

Is that the best reply you have nfitz? Tin-foil hats? Just explain the attendance numbers, account for the 1000's of missing folk from the game viv-a-vis announced vs. actually attended, and reconcile it with Season ticketholder count. Tin-hats... Meh.

Or explain how you "know" there are 16,000 season ticket holders - you certainly are not great at estimating crowds, I certainly wouldn't feel on solid ground with your estimates from MLSE reallocation... Do you have anything we can take to the bank?

I am not sure you have the hang of a "tin foil hat" reference...:)

https://encrypted-tbn1.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTIky8lQ2ajL2KmnHtEZNGo-fWYmh72FlXKEUlxv2DkIB6-XMFp

nfitz
09-14-2012, 05:00 PM
Is that the best reply you have nfitz?Not at all. I'm completely disgusted by the Toronto when they win attitude ...

Toronto when they win,
I’m Toronto when they win,
I know I am,
I’m sure I am,
I’m Toronto when they win.

Your complete inability to estimate a crowd, and put together a chain of logic without getting into conspiracy theories, makes any rational discussion a waste of time.

tiberius
09-14-2012, 05:54 PM
Your complete inability to estimate a crowd, and put together a chain of logic without getting into conspiracy theories, makes any rational discussion a waste of time.

??? Please layout your chain of logic - you have not done so. Once you have set out a train of thought, then perhaps it seems fair that you can toss hats at people. Just cuz somebody told you there were 16,000 season tickets holders, and you believed it, doesn't make it so - no matter how hard you wish for it....

nfitz
09-14-2012, 06:01 PM
??? Please layout your chain of logic - you have not done so. Once you have set out a train of thought, then perhaps it seems fair that you can toss hats at people. Just cuz somebody told you there were 16,000 season tickets holders, and you believed it, doesn't make it so - no matter how hard you wish for it....That was the number of season seats years ago, before they built the North Stand. Surely you aren't implying that MLSE was lying about this back in Season 2, when they were 100% sold out.

I've never said there were 16,000 season ticket holders ... most hold more than 1 seat.

tiberius
09-14-2012, 06:52 PM
That was the number of season seats years ago, before they built the North Stand. Surely you aren't implying that MLSE was lying about this back in Season 2, when they were 100% sold out.

I've never said there were 16,000 season ticket holders ... most hold more than 1 seat.

The number of season ticket seats that MLSE were striving to sell, and the number they have actually sold, as of today, are two completely different matters - how many "sold" season ticket holder seats do you think there are? Please share this number with us. Then, reconsile whatever number you make up, with the "attendance" for the Wednesday night game. Then reconsile the "attendance number" for the game with the several thousand "ghosts" who were counted in the attendance total, but clearly were not at the game. Just make the numbers work - somehow...