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Belfast_Boy
09-07-2012, 01:11 PM
So who's going to pay the piper to do this dance again next year?

Belfast_Boy
09-07-2012, 01:19 PM
In the beginning it was hard to get tickets. as the years went by it becames easier and a lot cheaper. this year I've finally got seasons tickets. I've even found it impossible to give away extras. do I really need to pay out now when I can get them at anytime..... hmmm

DavydMT
09-07-2012, 01:40 PM
i'm out.

eustacchio
09-07-2012, 01:43 PM
A lot of it depends on whether my buddy (the actual owner of the seat that I buy) decides to renew. I only buy the one seat in 112, and I make it to nearly every game...of course, I could get cheaper tickets other ways...

I don't know, but I do like to dance.

Ultra & Proud
09-07-2012, 01:46 PM
I'm in because $360 isn't a lot of cash for me to drop and I think it's not an unreasonable cost for the seat. That being said I think a drop to around $300 per seat would be a decent show of respect to the long suffering supporters because fuck me, they have to do something. But back on topic, the way I see it, I would probably spend just as much if I were to watch all the matches at the Pub anyway and at least down there I know people and they are actually interested in the Match/Sport.

Joe Kool
09-07-2012, 01:52 PM
My financial situation hit me pretty hard this year especially towards the end of the summer so I don't think I will renew even though I love my seat location and all the perks that go with my current location that you don't get in other parts of the stadium. If I could find someone to buy the seasons from me and I keep the rights I would do it to keep the seats because I should have corrected my situation by next year but considering the fact that I couldn't even give away the few pairs that I didn't use this year it doesn't bode well for that plan. If they dropped the price significantly I may be able to manage but I doubt there will be a drop. Sad time for me cause I make it to almost every game right now and will miss having my same seats. I will just have to pick some tickets up next year as the season goes probably if the price is right. I will continue to bug my friends to join in on the season tickets with me in the meantime and you never know, I may be able to convince someone to split them.

__wowza
09-07-2012, 02:00 PM
not.
i'm not going to any games next season.


not because i don't want to.
not because i don't own the seats.
not because it's too expensive.
not because i don't support the team anymore.


im gonna be moving to france as of january g:D
going to theatre school there until august. hooray!


doesn't answer the question one bit, but that'll explain my absence.

TOBOR !
09-07-2012, 02:01 PM
http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS__KKTWlxWFeQ7oydCZk6R5VoHWOd_q iheIamddSYGA8XPl5FPnsV94OzF

Canary10
09-07-2012, 02:09 PM
I'm in the dark greys in section 121 - the ones that Pookie's analysis showed were amongst the most overpriced at BMO compared to most other MLS stadiums. At a minimum I would need to see a price drop comparable to the one Montreal gave its fans. If not, I'll be downgrading for sure, if I keep any seats at all. I'm really on the fence right now.

Razor
09-07-2012, 02:12 PM
nope, i'm out as well.

Auzzy
09-07-2012, 03:08 PM
I'm waiting to vote on this poll, haven't decided yet about renewing my pair of medium-grey season tickets, but I'm not confused. The prospects are looking VERY bleak at the moment. For me it depends partly on the season ticket renewal offer; price freeze definitely isn't enough. The Anselmi reward for failure definitely lowered my chances of renewing. I was also waiting to hear if they hire a respectable team president for TFC, but I can't imagine anyone capable being shoe-horned between Anselmi & Mariner, if it's already been decided that they're both staying. And now the latest rumour that Cochrane might slither into some role like that.... YHGTBFKM!

Things are really hanging by a thread. So sad. Not interested in downgrading my seats -- the only real reason to renew is some nice neighbours in Section 225. I think they will either renew in the same spot, or not renew at all. No reason for me to grab cheaper season tickets though. In that case it's easier to grab cheap seats when I need them, I sometimes only need a single instead of a pair, or none at all. Lately it's been impossible to sell (or sometimes even give away) spare tickets. W/o seasons, I expect I'll be going & watching much less often, life gets in the way when you're not tied in via season tickets. Why bother scheduling everything around TFC games, like my wife & I have been doing for the last couple of years?

So sad...

backbeat
09-07-2012, 03:29 PM
i'm waiting to see if they overhaul the management and put in a real soccer president (i.e. NOT Earl Cochrane) with knowledge of the game and a new coach combined with reduced pricing - ok, what am i thinking, i guess i'm not renewing!!

Oldtimer
09-07-2012, 03:36 PM
It's too early for this thread... we don't even know next year's prices yet!

jabbronies
09-07-2012, 03:36 PM
Kinda early for this poll considering the options haven't been sent out yet. I voted confused as it's the only "I'm on the fence" equivalent

Belfast_Boy
09-07-2012, 03:51 PM
if anyone is waiting for a discount then they are in for a long wait. remember who we are dealing with here.

C.Ronaldo
09-07-2012, 04:09 PM
no for me
the atmosphere is gone and the quality isnt good enough for me.
infact, ive grown impatient with MLS as a whole. I tried supporting it, but its just too mickey mouse.

SuperTCP
09-07-2012, 04:25 PM
Depends on whay my friends and relatives decide. We have 12 seats we share. They are not too happy and it has been hard to give away extra seats this year, etc. Hopefully TFC makes some changes soon and offers STH a crazy deal or else I fear many will leave.

BritSOL
09-07-2012, 04:58 PM
I have 2 dark greys in 224. At over $1900 for both I am now done......

sashavukelich
09-07-2012, 05:36 PM
sat in 114 for YEARS now and i'm out. I'll watch on TV and i enjoy MLS as a league, but fundamentally, the prices are too high for the quality on the field and the players are we watching.

MLS needs to step in and sort out TFC PRONTO, otherwise i bet this team could get moved in 4-5 years time with the incredible drop in attendance and fan excitement.

Parkdale
09-07-2012, 09:08 PM
im gonna be moving to france as of january g:D
going to theatre school there until august. hooray!


what's the French word for "couch for me to crash on" ?


I'm definitely keeping my seats in 112.

I'll probably relocate my expensive seats into somewhere less brutally priced. Certainly there will be options with all the non-renewals.

I still enjoy going to games. The live experience is certainly more enjoyable than watching away games on TV. Those games are the first casualty of someone losing interest

Red CB Toronto
09-07-2012, 10:10 PM
I will be renewing for sure, BMO is a special place to be, cheering on the Reds. It is to each their own on what they decide to do but I think sticking with it through the hard times will make it even sweater when they get better.

123 elite
09-07-2012, 10:14 PM
I'm going to be having a long chat on wednesday with my co holder and number 2 on the list season ticket holder about whether after 6 years... 4 in 123, 1 in 122 and 1 in the north end... do the math... we renew. I'm thinking he's not going for it. I dont blame him. I just want a drinking buddy again :-( I dont see the point. I hated Winter but MAriner is just the opposite of football. He was a shite player and i loved Scotland pumping his England team in the 70s. And Ipswich despite their success were a rubbish bunch of cretins. I cant pay good money to watch a goalie hoof the ball to no-one for 90 mins. I dont see anything changing in the team direction or the backroom direction. Its a shiitshow and i can't believe that its exactly 6 months ago that 47000 of us were enjoying a 2-0 lead at the skydome and 6 months later we are at the absolute clusterfuck we are at now and still going down. Utterly depressing and a colossal waste of money. what is the fucking point.

TOBOR !
09-07-2012, 10:40 PM
I will be renewing for sure, BMO is a special place to be, cheering on the Reds. It is to each their own on what they decide to do but I think sticking with it through the hard times will make it even sweater when they get better.

^ to paraphrase Tom Anselmi.

narduch
09-07-2012, 10:41 PM
I will be renewing for sure, BMO is a special place to be, cheering on the Reds. It is to each their own on what they decide to do but I think sticking with it through the hard times will make it even sweater when they get better.

You must be there for the socco.

TOBOR !
09-07-2012, 10:48 PM
Lol... 'socco' (wipes tear). Man, too right. What a six months it's been. From the highest high to the lowest low, and I don't think we're there yet.

SKB
09-08-2012, 12:16 AM
I am a supporter. TFC till I die. I have been a minor soccer coach for fifteen years and it is important we have 3 strong franchises in Canada to develop the talent. I will continue to be a season ticket holder this year and every year. Tonight I was at the WCQ match between Canada and Panama. We had almost 18k fans watching a very good match, on a world class pitch. That would not have happened without TFC and the strong SSH base.

khso11
09-08-2012, 02:15 AM
unless they give us 50% off, noooooo. but will attend games occasionally and follow the rest on tv.

DOMIN8R
09-08-2012, 07:02 AM
I may drop 2 of my 4. But I'm keeping at least 2. Is it too much to ask for just a little stability next year? Make a plan ML$E and stick to it F***!

Rene Kingsriver
09-08-2012, 07:20 AM
Me and my buddy aren't renewing in 115. Really it's the only worthwhile method I have of showing my disgust at the way this shitshow has been run.

mw83krk
09-08-2012, 10:17 AM
I was on the fence last year, but bit the bullet and renewed... but absolutely NOT this year. ML$E did nothing this year to pursuade me to come back. Like others here, I couldn't get anywhere near face value for the tickets to matches I couldn't attend. If I'm going to support a charity, it surely won't be ML$E.

There just comes a time where it doesn't make any more sense to toss money at ML$E. With general household expenses going up and up ... and us making the trek from Niagara Falls, once you factor in gas, parking etc., the entertainment value just isn't there. Basically, I don't want to spend hard earned money and time watching a team NOT win 75% of the time... and then only have ML$E try to continuously sell me shit. They have done nothing to keep me as a fan... absolutely nothing, other than their marketing department scheming new ways to get more money.

I'll spend my hard earned dollars elsewhere -- somewhere where they appreciate it... or make an attempt to make me feel like they do.

asterix606
09-08-2012, 10:40 AM
My friend and I have two season tickets in the 223.

It's a big NO for both of us. They will not see another dollar from us!

We are taking a break from TFC until they get their house in order.

http://unemployedhelp.net/wp-content/uploads/stop-being-sheep.jpg

DERO, great job last night!!! A legend dearly missed in Toronto.

Belfast_Boy
09-08-2012, 10:49 AM
I am probably going to renew. not 100% sure now. I have one in the cheap seats. it's not much money and I do like hanging out with the boys.

Hal you hit the nail on the head. they have to do something. this shit show has gone on too long.

Wull
09-08-2012, 10:59 AM
I'm in. I'll see those fuckers (the front office) out the door long before me

Mark in Ottawa
09-08-2012, 11:48 AM
It's too early for this thread... we don't even know next year's prices yet!
My thoughts exactly.
If you are in the situation where you could renew ... How can you decide until they have made you an offer and you can then weigh the cost/benefit??

That was what I did this year ... and will do again next season.

It all comes down to whether you feel the cash outlay is good value for the entertainment/experience received.

AL-MO
09-08-2012, 11:59 AM
I'm going to be having a long chat on wednesday with my co holder and number 2 on the list season ticket holder about whether after 6 years... 4 in 123, 1 in 122 and 1 in the north end... do the math... we renew. I'm thinking he's not going for it. I dont blame him. I just want a drinking buddy again :-( I dont see the point. I hated Winter but MAriner is just the opposite of football. He was a shite player and i loved Scotland pumping his England team in the 70s. And Ipswich despite their success were a rubbish bunch of cretins. I cant pay good money to watch a goalie hoof the ball to no-one for 90 mins. I dont see anything changing in the team direction or the backroom direction. Its a shiitshow and i can't believe that its exactly 6 months ago that 47000 of us were enjoying a 2-0 lead at the skydome and 6 months later we are at the absolute clusterfuck we are at now and still going down. Utterly depressing and a colossal waste of money. what is the fucking point.

I don't usually agree with you....ever, but I agree with this.

AL-MO
09-08-2012, 12:01 PM
I am a supporter. TFC till I die. I have been a minor soccer coach for fifteen years and it is important we have 3 strong franchises in Canada to develop the talent. I will continue to be a season ticket holder this year and every year. Tonight I was at the WCQ match between Canada and Panama. We had almost 18k fans watching a very good match, on a world class pitch. That would not have happened without TFC and the strong SSH base.

It will happen in the future, with or without TFC STH's. The men's national team and the support in the stands is on the up swing, TFC not so much.

prizby
09-08-2012, 12:22 PM
I bought 2 tix in 112 this year; between that and CanMNT games and CCL games and Montreal away, I have spent 1100 or 1200 dollars on tickets this year; from selling on extra tickets, I have received $650 that i have put in an envelop and was expecting to use on seasons for 2013.

I dont want to pay to watch hoofball...ill go to a u12 game for free if i wanted to watch that.

In fact, I`ll go watch the academy play; they play with the ball on the ground and are a hell of a lot more entertaining than the first team right now.

The toughest thing is to give up those around you; the supporters section sucks now; too many bloody tourists soaking up the atmosphere; mlse need to fix that; and because of that, im probably leaning to just buy single game tix to games i want to see; voyageurs cup, ccl, night games, derby games...you wont see at another god damn afternoon game with the fucking sun in your eyes for 90 minutes (unless they get a proper roof)

tiberius
09-08-2012, 12:28 PM
It's too early for this thread... we don't even know next year's prices yet!

Hey OT, I like having a poll now - it gives us an idea of who has already made up their mind - who is unlikely to be swayed by mastercard promos, watches, socco and free beer!:)

Having these numbers now will allow everyone to see the effect of the upcoming season ticket holder campaign. It is too early for many to decide "yes or no", but not too early for the poll. The TFC FO appears to be battling for the minds and wallets of the 27% of undecided folk, like yourself!

This poll should be closed off as soon as the Front Office marketing campaign kicks in with pricing, town halls, new philosophies, new coach, new players etc. Then rerun the poll a few days into their ticket flogging extravaganza...

Super
09-08-2012, 12:39 PM
I'll renew one last time, but if Mariner is in charge then I'll probably end up not even using the tickets. I need to see a much improved performance by the club from top to bottom - or I'll officially bow out. It really comes down to management. I don't want to invest any more of my time, money and energy on a team that is destined to fail. I need to at least feel as though we're not in the hands of extreme incompetence. Once we have a proper President of TFC in place (someone who had been in a similar role for min. 3 years at a club in a proper league - and with success) and have a new manager in place (again, someone with actual experience as head coach in a proper league for min. 3 years - and with success) then I'll come back. Until then it's just humiliation for all of us.

Fort York Redcoat
09-08-2012, 12:45 PM
State your cases people but do it without insulting others with backhanded comments.

asterix606
09-08-2012, 04:18 PM
WORST HOME RECORDS

#1 = Chivas @ 3-8-2 (11 points)
#2 = TFC @ 3-7-3 (12 points)
#18 = Impact @ 10-3-2 (32 points)

There is no entertainment value with such a miserable home record.

WORST HOME GOALS

Chivas = 8
TFC = 13
(Note: Montreal = 31)

WOW! We score an average of 1 goal per game at home. Lots of fun for the home fans!

CONCLUSION

There is no price/entertainment value ratio that could make any sense for me with these stats and 6 Seasons of shit results!

London
09-08-2012, 04:26 PM
I'll renew one last time, but if Mariner is in charge then I'll probably end up not even using the tickets. I need to see a much improved performance by the club from top to bottom - or I'll officially bow out. It really comes down to management. I don't want to invest any more of my time, money and energy on a team that is destined to fail. I need to at least feel as though we're not in the hands of extreme incompetence. Once we have a proper President of TFC in place (someone who had been in a similar role for min. 3 years at a club in a proper league - and with success) and have a new manager in place (again, someone with actual experience as head coach in a proper league for min. 3 years - and with success) then I'll come back. Until then it's just humiliation for all of us.


if they name EARL the new man i am likely out but if not i am kinda in the same boat as you, ill likely renew 1 more time to see where it goes. I am not happy at all with anything the front office is doing other then the fact they brought a club to toronto.

Everytime you think, "it cant get worse", well it does somehow.

Fort York Redcoat
09-08-2012, 04:43 PM
WORST HOME RECORDS

#1 = Chivas @ 3-8-2 (11 points)
#2 = TFC @ 3-7-3 (12 points)
#18 = Impact @ 10-3-2 (32 points)

There is no entertainment value with such a miserable home record.

WORST HOME GOALS

Chivas = 8
TFC = 13
(Note: Montreal = 31)

WOW! We score an average of 1 goal per game at home. Lots of fun for the home fans!

CONCLUSION

There is no price/entertainment value ratio that could make any sense for me with these stats and 6 Seasons of shit results!

Your constant comparisons to Montreal, our only rival to some, is getting suspicious. Either you are trolling we Toronto supporters and need to stop using the term "we" or you are trying to support two teams at once.

asterix606
09-08-2012, 04:52 PM
Ha Ha!! You again Fort York!

I'll solve the mystery for you. I was born and raised in a small francophone city in northern Ontario. The francophones in the north of the province both love the Toronto Maple Leafs and Montreal Canadiens.

Same for football, I love TFC and like the Impact! The comparison of both is mostly to show that a 1st year team is killing us!!

Fort York Redcoat
09-08-2012, 04:54 PM
Ha Ha!! You again Fort York!

I'll solve the mystery for you. I was born and raised in a small francophone city in northern Ontario. The francophones in the north of the province both love the Toronto Maple Leafs and Montreal Canadiens.

I also love TFC and like the Impact! The comparison of both is mostly to show that a 1st year team is killing us!!


You like more than one team. Mystery solved.

London
09-08-2012, 05:01 PM
i see where asterix is coming from, i also compare what TFC are doing compared to what the 2 other clubs in Canada are doing.

montreal has 10 wins at home in 1 season, do we even have 10 regular season home wins in 6 years???

Vancouver is in the playoff hunt after a few seasons

TFC management is shit from top to bottom and TFC are being left in the dust

the comparison is valid in my opinion

asterix606
09-08-2012, 05:02 PM
You like more than one team. Mystery solved.

No! Read the message...

I love TFC (Season ticket holder for years (done after this year), own jersey etc..)
I like the Impact (Own nothing)


And to solve another mystery (since you blasted me many times for bad spelling on this board). English is my third language, after French and Spanish.

Please consider it next time, we are not all Redcoats in Ontario.

(NOTE: I respect RPB members and your internet site and do not wish to escalate this, we are off topic. Case closed)

TFC DOVE
http://www.weddingdaydoves.com/images/white on white.jpg

Fort York Redcoat
09-08-2012, 05:09 PM
No! Read the message...

I love TFC (Season ticket holder for years (done after this year), own jersey etc..)
I like the Impact (Own nothing)


And to solve another mystery (since you blasted me many times for bad spelling on this board). English is my third language, after French and Spanish.

Please think twice next time, we are not all Redcoats in Ontario.


I don't correct your grammar. Just your misinformation. I don't see why I would have to think twice about what you're first language is. i care nothing about your background. I care about who supports this team in this league. I can't see how you can support more than one.

asterix606
09-08-2012, 05:25 PM
I don't correct you're grammar. Just your misinformation. I don't see why I would have to think twice about what you're first language is. i care nothing about your background. I care about who supports this team in this league. I can't see how you can support more than one.


Wow! You shot the dove, ha, ha! What are you talking about, my misinformation! Are you talking about TFC and MLS stats! They don't lie!

And yes, you did in past messages (not today) blast my spelling!

Think twice man! Real hard! Us francophones in northern Ontario have an attachment to both English (Ontario) and French (Quebec). Hence the reason to like two teams in MLS, NHL or other leagues!

Strange and scary that you don't seem to understand how someone can enjoy more than one team!

Fort York Redcoat
09-08-2012, 05:28 PM
Wow! You shot the dove, ha, ha! What are you talking about, my misinformation! Are you talking about TFC and MLS stats! They don't lie!

And yes, you did in past messages (not today) blast my spelling!

Think twice man! Real hard! Us francophones in Ontario have an attachment to both English (Ontario) and French (Quebec). Hence the reason to like two teams in NHL or other leagues!

Strange and scary that you don't seem to understand how someone can support more than one team!

I see your excuse. I just don't validate it.

asterix606
09-08-2012, 05:35 PM
I see your excuse. I just don't validate it.

It's not an excuse.

It's a statement!

Mr. Bigby
09-08-2012, 06:01 PM
Depending on the (presumed) "Sorry We Screwed Up" ticket discount that ML$E MUST offer, I will likely renew, because I think it's important to continue to support professional football in Ontario and Canada. This is not meant to support the owners, it's an investment in Henry, Morgan, and all of the other young Canadian players that are being developed through the academy. I will, however, likely be looking to relocate from my expensive seats right behind the players bench.

Pookie
09-08-2012, 06:21 PM
Depending on the (presumed) "Sorry We Screwed Up" ticket discount that ML$E MUST offer, I will likely renew, because I think it's important to continue to support professional football in Ontario and Canada. This is not meant to support the owners, it's an investment in Henry, Morgan, and all of the other young Canadian players that are being developed through the academy. I will, however, likely be looking to relocate from my expensive seats right behind the players bench.

I don't disagree with your sentiment. However, I wanted to add some context to your post. TFC-A will continue regardless of the level of support provided Toronto has an MLS franchise. The league, as a function of its multi-year deal with Adidas mandated all of its franchises to have an Academy. TFC had no choice in the matter but to have one.

The biggest thing you can do to support the development of Canadian players, and in particular those from Ontario, is to get behind the new OPDL that will launch in 2014. Clubs and SAAC (Private Academy) teams will compete starting with the 2001 birth year.

ensco
09-08-2012, 09:12 PM
If the CMNT get into the hex, some of those games (maybe all 5?) will be the 5 biggest games in BMO history. That'll come into it for some people.

billygrieveuk
09-08-2012, 09:28 PM
my interest is gone, and has been since may.

so no, i will not be renewing. i might as well pass them on
to someone on the waiting list...if there still is a list.

anyway, it actually felt special for a couple years there,
didn't miss a game back then... good luck TFC.

nfitz
09-08-2012, 09:32 PM
It's too early for this thread... we don't even know next year's prices yet!It was leaked a while ago. Same as 2011, unless there are some more expensive sections that will see reductions.

supersaint
09-08-2012, 10:38 PM
SSH since day one. Travel to Florida for preseason. I want us to win, but I also want to watch entertaining football. I hated Prekiball, and I am not enjoying the way Mariner has us playing. I think I would rather pick and choose the games I go to next year. Hopefully some more WCQ games. My seats are almost two grand for the pair, and they are not worth it. I can see us winning more games next season, but still being relatively crap, and still playing very boring football. Had a real hard time giving away my tix for the game on Wednesday against Chicago.

NoNameboys
09-08-2012, 10:54 PM
I'm not going to renew. 6 yrs was enough for me. Tickets are so easily available on game day. The only thing that would make me re-new would be a big discount on tickets for 2013. And i mean big.

Cashcleaner
09-08-2012, 11:09 PM
Not entirely sure yet what I'm going to do. I'd say that right now I'm the epitome of an "undecided consumer". I've only been to a handful of games at BMO this year and leased my seat in 112 to another member here on the boards.

There are a variety of reasons for my decline in attendance/participation, but the price by itself is not really an issue. In my mind, much of it boils down to an issue of value (ie: what am I getting for the money I'm spending).

And it's not about expecting a team that magically makes the playoffs each season and is a mainstay in Champions League, but rather demanding a team that can at least compete respectfully and isn't torn apart up by other clubs with a fraction of the financial support that our ownership has and an even shorter tenure in the league.

I don't know what to say. So much of this club infuriates me, yet I love soccer and I love the people in the stands with me. Dropping them and just picking up tickets on a day-to-day basis is looking to be the best option for me.

DangerRed
09-08-2012, 11:14 PM
Let me do a Lehrer from another thread...

My two friends and I bought season tickets last year. We paid even the criminal surcharge of paying for MLS Cup tickets (we didn't mind, it was cold, and all of Chad Barrett, Nana, Maicon Santos, Jake Peterson and others were seated in the row behind us). We bought concessions. Lots of them. Many tipsy, tipsy concessions. We waited with excitement for every time the boys played, regardless whether it was the league or the CCL shitshow (because of the refereeing, you know).

Now?

We dropped our tickets. We boycott and preload at other bars. This year, I've been to 3 games. All tickets bought for less than face from desperate sellers who won't be around next year.

Those of you renewing, enjoy the free MasterCard jerseys.

Belfast_Boy
09-08-2012, 11:55 PM
State your cases people but do it without insulting others with backhanded comments.

agreed Pete.
same as those that think this is too early. if you don't like it then don't take part.

Belfast_Boy
09-09-2012, 12:20 AM
there's something else that interests me that i've heard of over the last few months. the people that are so interested or active on the board but never put their ass in the seat (or stand on it). why are you here? yes, this is a very pointed question.

Cashcleaner
09-09-2012, 12:32 AM
^ Not sure if trolling...

Nodoubtguy
09-09-2012, 12:46 AM
sigh.....will I renew....yes.....why??

Well TFC is my team. I like Barca and follow them, care about them, talk about them.....but they will never be my hometown team, the team I've loved since before they had played a game. TFC has a place in my heart that sadly through good and bad (mainly bad) will always be there. TFC means I get to go see soccer with my dad 17 times a year (even when we lose 154-1, at least I can laugh with him about just how bad we are). I get to make it out to Joe's and see the many, many great people I've met over the last 6 years (yes, that means you!! :drunk:). Heck, I met the person I'm getting married to in 34 days (:willy_nilly:) because of TFC!

Remember Dichio's first goal?? what about being at the Miracle in Montreal? Remember when we almost died in Philly?? or the feeling at the CL game at Rogers? That's why I'm renewing

Call me stupid, or sappy or a sheep willing to pay MLSE for crap.....maybe that's what I am. But end of the day, even without many achievements on the field, TFC is and hopefully will always be a part of my life.

Rene Kingsriver
09-09-2012, 06:48 AM
sigh.....will I renew....yes.....why??

Well TFC is my team. I like Barca and follow them, care about them, talk about them.....but they will never be my hometown team, the team I've loved since before they had played a game. TFC has a place in my heart that sadly through good and bad (mainly bad) will always be there. TFC means I get to go see soccer with my dad 17 times a year (even when we lose 154-1, at least I can laugh with him about just how bad we are). I get to make it out to Joe's and see the many, many great people I've met over the last 6 years (yes, that means you!! :drunk:). Heck, I met the person I'm getting married to in 34 days (:willy_nilly:) because of TFC!

Remember Dichio's first goal?? what about being at the Miracle in Montreal? Remember when we almost died in Philly?? or the feeling at the CL game at Rogers? That's why I'm renewing

Call me stupid, or sappy or a sheep willing to pay MLSE for crap.....maybe that's what I am. But end of the day, even without many achievements on the field, TFC is and hopefully will always be a part of my life.

I'm not having a difg but you could've done all those without a season ticket. Not renewing doesn't equal walking away from TFC, I'll still support the team and attend games.

denime
09-09-2012, 07:24 AM
sigh.....will I renew....yes.....why??

Well TFC is my team. I like Barca and follow them, care about them, talk about them.....but they will never be my hometown team, the team I've loved since before they had played a game. TFC has a place in my heart that sadly through good and bad (mainly bad) will always be there. TFC means I get to go see soccer with my dad 17 times a year (even when we lose 154-1, at least I can laugh with him about just how bad we are). I get to make it out to Joe's and see the many, many great people I've met over the last 6 years (yes, that means you!! :drunk:). Heck, I met the person I'm getting married to in 34 days (:willy_nilly:) because of TFC!

Remember Dichio's first goal?? what about being at the Miracle in Montreal? Remember when we almost died in Philly?? or the feeling at the CL game at Rogers? That's why I'm renewing

Call me stupid, or sappy or a sheep willing to pay MLSE for crap.....maybe that's what I am. But end of the day, even without many achievements on the field, TFC is and hopefully will always be a part of my life.

While I agree with your sentiment,

Rene K. is 100% right ,not renewing doesn't equal walking away from TFC,you can be TFC Supporter attend the game without being STH.


I'm not having a difg but you could've done all those without a season ticket. Not renewing doesn't equal walking away from TFC, I'll still support the team and attend games.

After 20 years of absence I used the opportunity to watch my old club Red Star Belgrade,only few have season tickets holders over there,but jet they still manage to create moments like this:

http://i48.tinypic.com/2u724y1.jpg

http://youtu.be/yyzbBueSaZ4

Who ever does not renew his ST is still TFC supporter as the ones with ST,let's not divide ourselves over this and try to create moments like the one on the picture and video above.

Eastend
09-09-2012, 08:05 AM
For me, not renewing has never been a question. Am I frustrated of where we are, yes, but this is my hometown team.

I am renewing.

Dom

Nodoubtguy
09-09-2012, 09:22 AM
I'm not having a difg but you could've done all those without a season ticket. Not renewing doesn't equal walking away from TFC, I'll still support the team and attend games.

but if you plan on attending every game (which I did say).....why would you not want to renew?

pdogg
09-09-2012, 09:37 AM
but if you plan on attending every game (which I did say).....why would you not want to renew?

Yes, renewing and supporting can be two different things. I may renew just because I intend on attending each game next year. I like my seat location and I find it easier than trying to get ticket trader tix. Even if I miss a few games, the convenience out weighs the cost, *for me*. I understand those who have different reasons for renewing or not. Their value of time, money and entertainment is not mine. Heck, if less people renew and just want to pick up single game tix, it may mean a better chance of my tix being bought up.

Why do we call those who renew, suckers, and those who don't, non supporters? The fighting has lost focus and turned inward.

Nodoubtguy
09-09-2012, 10:05 AM
Why do we call those who renew, suckers, and those who don't, non supporters? The fighting has lost focus and turned inward.

I hope that I'm in no way calling anyone out for non-renewing.

Like you said....I like my seat location, I plan on still going to all games. That combined with the fact that regardless of results, I have reasons I still enjoy going to games.......I don't see why I wouldn't renew

pdogg
09-09-2012, 10:49 AM
I hope that I'm in no way calling anyone out for non-renewing.

Like you said....I like my seat location, I plan on still going to all games. That combined with the fact that regardless of results, I have reasons I still enjoy going to games.......I don't see why I wouldn't renew

No, you're not calling anyone out - you I'd an excellent job of describing why regardless of what was happening in the front office, back office or the pitch why you would continue to be a STH, or not. We (all of us) are supporters because we support the team, whatever that means to each person. Not because X has Seasons, or Y sits in a certain section or Z has been on so many road trips.

Suds
09-09-2012, 11:41 AM
I'd say it's almost 100% certain I will renew. As screwed as this club is at the moment I still get value out of the money I spend. I still look forward to game days and meeting up with friends.

I think if my friends started dropping their seats it would impact my decision.

I will say that after the Canada game on Friday I long for the days it felt like that for TFC games at BMO. I'm enjoying the national team games much more than TFC games. I hope TFC put some real effort into re-engaging the fans.

Sullivan
09-09-2012, 07:15 PM
Not renewing.
Not a financial decision.
I started in season 1 with 10 tickets in the upper deck. Dropped tickets over past 2 seasons.
This season I renewed just 2, but sold them in April at a small loss.

I'm not renewing for three reasons:
1 Maple Leaf Sports Enterprises have no idea how to be competitive in pro sports (pick your team);
2. Tom Anselmi not only remains employed, but gets promoted - his thumbs are all over TFC;
3. Paul Marriner is so far removed and behind modern football, the club remains unable to compete.

If the team were able to compete, and be somewhat entertaining, perhaps I stick around. But I see no sign to this, just more change and more of the same thing.

jazzy
09-09-2012, 10:26 PM
if anyone is waiting for a discount then they are in for a long wait. remember who we are dealing with here.for

^ fraid so,..apparently won't happen , rumour is, it is already decided for next year and too late...............Anselmi , FO, and Mariner ...why us,...cash your cheques and fook #$#.

jazzy
09-09-2012, 10:45 PM
i see where asterix is coming from, i also compare what TFC are doing compared to what the 2 other clubs in Canada are doing.

montreal has 10 wins at home in 1 season, do we even have 10 regular season home wins in 6 years???

Vancouver is in the playoff hunt after a few seasons

TFC management is shit from top to bottom and TFC are being left in the dust

the comparison is valid in my opinion

^100% the sooner tfc gets off their high horse and faces reality the sooner,..change can happen

Fort York Redcoat
09-10-2012, 08:07 AM
i see where asterix is coming from, i also compare what TFC are doing compared to what the 2 other clubs in Canada are doing.

montreal has 10 wins at home in 1 season, do we even have 10 regular season home wins in 6 years???

Vancouver is in the playoff hunt after a few seasons

TFC management is shit from top to bottom and TFC are being left in the dust

the comparison is valid in my opinion

A comparison is valid in context. If one is comparing Canadian teams it's very different than comparing ones second favourite team to their biggest rival even if it is ones first favourite team on their supporters site.

Context is everything, P.

rowjimi
09-10-2012, 08:36 AM
I am torn about renewing or not renewing this coming year. I have been a STH since the beginning and love attending home games. The supporters are top notch and really make for a great game day experience. I guess it comes down to that I would gladly renew if I felt this club had direction and focus. I was afraid to admit on these boards that I thought Winter was doing a good job. My concern was his player choices. I just did not think he was putting the right players in and/or at a position advantageous to the club. There were some injury issues as well.

With the appointment of Mariner as manager and not interim manager I was concerned (to put it mildly) but open minded. Now I am just concerned.

My biggest challenge is that if the club does not soon discover a direction and the proper focus how are we ever going to attract and keep quality players. What player would feel comfortable in this environment. They will always play with one foot out the door mentality.

Sorry for rambling. I realize my post could go on 8 different threads. Bottom line show direction and I will renew.

Also, I totally respect people's decision on this topic. For me it has been a struggle.

DangerRed
09-10-2012, 08:50 AM
but if you plan on attending every game (which I did say).....why would you not want to renew?

For strictly monetary reasons? Because there's a huge and desperate aftermarket for tickets, and you could attend every single game and pay less than the comparable (averaged out) season ticket would cost you. Buying seasons also effectively gives MLSE an interest-free loan which ammortizes over the course of the season as your services are provided to you by them. Why you'd want to do this with a front office that has so repeatedly spat in your face is beyond me.

TOBOR !
09-10-2012, 09:10 AM
In order to experience the highest high, you must first suffer the lowest low - is that why some of you are renewing ? I wonder about that.

For when the day comes - and it will, Tom Anselmi has said as much (without disclosing how) - that TFC is flying it's flag from the highest summit, you will be able to say you were there during the darkest hours. You will have a certain nobility that no others can claim. Perhaps this is part of your decision.

Just wondering.

gcolacci
09-10-2012, 09:31 AM
In order to experience the highest high, you must first suffer the lowest low - is that why some of you are renewing ? I wonder about that.

For when the day comes - and it will, Tom Anselmi has said as much (without disclosing how) - that TFC is flying it's flag from the highest summit, you will be able to say you were there during the darkest hours. You will have a certain nobility that no others can claim. Perhaps this is part of your decision.

Just wondering.

I have always said to myself. The day i go to a game and don't have fun is the day i have lost my love for this team. I have made incredible friends over thea year going to the game. as heartbreaking as these past few seasons have been i still have a passion for this game/team.

However my big sticking point is what Tobor said above. When this team started i decided i would love it till the end. and i will. Now i agree not going to games does not mean you are not a fan. But i chose that my way of showing support for this game is being there in the best times and the worst.

I grew up a Red Wings fan in the NHL and i have only been to maybe 10 games in my lifetime.(since i am from toronto) Do i feel that makes me less of a fan than someone born and raised from detroit? No. I still feel we are equals. However every fan shows there passion in different ways.

I believe that people should support the team they way they feel best. If you feel your patience has run out and you want to watch from the sidelines till the boat turns around. Thats fine. But don't take anything away from the fans that are there trying to help that boat out. Nor will we take anything away from you from helping us when we need that strength to get over a hump.

We are all Fans of this team, hence why we are on this forum. If we dont have each other we dont have anything.

TFC .

David_Oliveira
09-10-2012, 09:31 AM
In order to experience the highest high, you must first suffer the lowest low - is that why some of you are renewing ? I wonder about that.

For when the day comes - and it will, Tom Anselmi has said as much (without disclosing how) - that TFC is flying it's flag from the highest summit, you will be able to say you were there during the darkest hours. You will have a certain nobility that no others can claim. Perhaps this is part of your decision.

Just wondering.

To me its a loyalty thing. Its like nationality. You might not always agree with the pm or president. It does mean you are just gonna pick up and leave.

And just so people know, Im not calling anyone out for not doing so. Everyone is entitled to do whatever they want.

Fort York Redcoat
09-10-2012, 09:44 AM
For strictly monetary reasons? Because there's a huge and desperate aftermarket for tickets, and you could attend every single game and pay less than the comparable (averaged out) season ticket would cost you. Buying seasons also effectively gives MLSE an interest-free loan which ammortizes over the course of the season as your services are provided to you by them. Why you'd want to do this with a front office that has so repeatedly spat in your face is beyond me.

Yes but all these aftermarket businesses are a better cause for your loonies? These basically legal scalpers are the future it seems.

It's your choice if you want to scramble for tickets game to game. I wouldn't say that those companies are any better to support than this spitting FO that represents the club.

TOBOR !
09-10-2012, 09:44 AM
To me its a loyalty thing. Its like nationality. You might not always agree with the pm or president. It does mean you are just gonna pick up and leave.

And just so people know, Im not calling anyone out for not doing so. Everyone is entitled to do whatever they want.

right - no-one's being judged here - I'm trying to understand the motivations on either side.

So far I'm seeing a lot of the decision to renew has to do with the social aspect. People have grown accustomed to the routine and enjoy the company of others. It seems it's more about that and any reason to cheer is gravy.

No matter how unhappy with the organisation you become, you have the most to lose by not renewing.

Fort York Redcoat
09-10-2012, 09:53 AM
In order to experience the highest high, you must first suffer the lowest low - is that why some of you are renewing ? I wonder about that.

For when the day comes - and it will, Tom Anselmi has said as much (without disclosing how) - that TFC is flying it's flag from the highest summit, you will be able to say you were there during the darkest hours. You will have a certain nobility that no others can claim. Perhaps this is part of your decision.

Just wondering.

And I'm wondering why you're comparing loyal support to elitism when you who are not renewing believe you're doing so for the betterment of the clubs future. This is still a pissing contest that doesn't have to be.

Here's what I'd like to touch on:

The acceptance for other people's opinion and decisions NOW decide on what it will be like if what we ALL want happens- This team turns around and people want to come back -

I'm not going to damn people who leave for a reason they think helps. Will you do the same for those who stay?

:EDIT

I appreciate your above post

DangerRed
09-10-2012, 10:29 AM
Yes but all these aftermarket businesses are a better cause for your loonies? These basically legal scalpers are the future it seems.

It's your choice if you want to scramble for tickets game to game. I wouldn't say that those companies are any better to support than this spitting FO that represents the club.

If by "scrambling" you mean walking up to the window or clicking on a ticketmaster equivalent, then yes, I guess I'll have to scramble.

As for scalpers, I like to chat with them sometimes about how business is going and I've heard from several that they're dropping seats by the pound because they're losing significant amounts of money. If someone around here can't GIVE tickets away, how do you think the scalpers are doing?

Gonna be a very different BMO next season...

TOBOR !
09-10-2012, 10:34 AM
And I'm wondering why you're comparing loyal support to elitism when you who are not renewing believe you're doing so for the betterment of the clubs future. This is still a pissing contest that doesn't have to be.

Here's what I'd like to touch on:

The acceptance for other people's opinion and decisions NOW decide on what it will be like if what we ALL want happens- This team turns around and people want to come back -

I'm not going to damn people who leave for a reason they think helps. Will you do the same for those who stay?

:EDIT

I appreciate your above post

Okay, well, I'm not comparing reasons for renewing... rather simply taking note of what they may be.

I wouldn't have labelled what I said about enduring the darkest days 'Elitism'. It can be a personal thing, can't it ? It doesn't have to be a badge you flash when your authenticity is brought into question.

I cropped one of my previous posts due to it's rambling nature.

A strong sense of loyalty to the club is obviously a reason to renew, as much as a strong desire for success is to not to.

Fort York Redcoat
09-10-2012, 10:34 AM
If by "scrambling" you mean walking up to the window or clicking on a ticketmaster equivalent, then yes, I guess I'll have to scramble.

As for scalpers, I like to chat with them sometimes about how business is going and I've heard from several that they're dropping seats by the pound because they're losing significant amounts of money. If someone around here can't GIVE tickets away, how do you think the scalpers are doing?

Gonna be a very different BMO next season...

The scalpers are hurting. My heart bleeds...

Fort York Redcoat
09-10-2012, 10:41 AM
Okay, well, I'm not comparing reasons for renewing... rather simply taking note of what they may be.

I wouldn't have labelled what I said about enduring the darkest days 'Elitism'. It can be a personal thing, can't it ? It doesn't have to be a badge you flash when your authenticity is brought into question.

I cropped one of my previous posts due to it's rambling nature.

A strong sense of loyalty to the club is obviously a reason to renew, as much as a strong desire for success is to not to.

I'm happy their can be a mutual respect found in the different opinions

But c'mon manbot...

"Claiming nobility" not elitism? That's where my response came from.

C.Ronaldo
09-10-2012, 11:09 AM
"A strong sense of loyalty to the club is obviously a reason to renew"

A strong sense of loyalty to badge is exactly why I am not renewing. MLSE has to fail immensely before we see proper change in this organization.

its simple, you buy tickets MLSE thinks you agree with them
you dont buy tickets, they know you disagree.

$$ is all they know thus $$ is our only weapon

nascarguy
09-10-2012, 11:11 AM
I'm not renewing in till mlse is gone and I'm thinking about getting season tickets for the CFL 500$ gets you the centre field 1st row and you have 8 months to pay it off.

TOBOR !
09-10-2012, 11:13 AM
I'm happy their can be a mutual respect found in the different opinions

But c'mon manbot...

"Claiming nobility" not elitism? That's where my response came from.

Okay - I see that now after rereading my post.
You will have a certain nobility that no others can claim

The inference, though, is that this nobility will be inherent. Not something sought after and flaunted, but a by-product of having done something. No doubt there would be some who would flaunt it, but my meaning was that inside you would know you were there, and had suffered, and this ultimate success would be so much sweeter, etc, for having done so (effectively living out the bits of 'the impossible dream' where one is to 'follow the star, no matter how hopeless, no matter how far', etc).

ensco
09-10-2012, 11:15 AM
Obviously a personal decision. My 2 cents:

Sometimes being a smart fan, and being a true fan, is not the same thing. This caught my eye yesterday
http://www.rantsports.com/chicago-bears/2012/09/09/jay-cutler-kindly-asks-that-you-quiet-down-when-the-bears-are-in-the-red-zone/

True Fan does not want to hear this, but imho only Smart Fan helps his team.

TOBOR !
09-10-2012, 11:15 AM
"A strong sense of loyalty to the club is obviously a reason to renew"

A strong sense of loyalty to badge is exactly why I am not renewing. MLSE has to fail immensely before we see proper change in this organization.

its simple, you buy tickets MLSE thinks you agree with them
you dont buy tickets, they know you disagree.

$$ is all they know thus $$ is our only weapon

and that's the bit after the comma
as much as a strong desire for success is to not to spun slightly differently.

Nodoubtguy
09-10-2012, 11:24 AM
Obviously a personal decision. My 2 cents:

Sometimes being a smart fan, and being a true fan, is not the same thing. This caught my eye yesterday
http://www.rantsports.com/chicago-bears/2012/09/09/jay-cutler-kindly-asks-that-you-quiet-down-when-the-bears-are-in-the-red-zone/

True Fan does not want to hear this, but imho only Smart Fan helps his team.

All I've ever seen from our players towards the fans is the "waving arms" lets get loud/pumped up action.

Pookie
09-10-2012, 11:36 AM
Yes but all these aftermarket businesses are a better cause for your loonies? These basically legal scalpers are the future it seems.

It's your choice if you want to scramble for tickets game to game. I wouldn't say that those companies are any better to support than this spitting FO that represents the club.

The scalper angle is an interesting one. The greater the demand, the better the scalpers do. Which is a reason as to why the FO allegedly looked the other way (as it does for the Leafs) when it came to known scalpers.

When BMO was full, scalper prices ensured that you bought any ticket package (Seasons, Half Seasons, Marlies) because scarcity was an issue. If you didn't buy the packages you weren't guaranteed access and to get access you paid a premium to a scalper.

It appears to me that a scalper market is what keeps Leaf ticket prices as high as they are. Fans/Corporations can pay $10,000 for a pair of seats because they know if they don't go, they can make back their money and then some. The net cost of a pair of Leaf tickets to the owner is likely 50-75% less than the sticker price. Without that secondary ticket demand, I think you'd see people think long and hard about whether a Leaf season ticket is worth it. And as far as I'm aware, MLSE isn't necessarily making it a number one priority to ensure that you and I don't pay $150 for a pair of aftermarket purples.

When I think about buying tickets for 2013 on this secondary ticket market for TFC, I'm thinking about the net value to fan that I am buying from. That and if I buy from him, I'm not buying from the box office. In essence where they could have had 2 ticket sales... his and mine... they only get the cash from one... his. If this is what you mean by "legal scalpers" then I'm all for supporting my fellow supporter.

Yohan
09-10-2012, 11:49 AM
Whitecaps seasons ticket pricing
http://www.canadiansoccernews.com/content.php?3724-Early-birds-have-cheap-Whitecaps-season-tickets-to-catch

they offer a 12% discount if you renew between 22 Sept to 3 Oct

Toronto_Bhoy
09-10-2012, 11:50 AM
I remember Tom Anselmi making a statement justifying ticket prices with the pharse "market value".

While I understand the term, I don't know what he meant by "Market" or "Value"? In the local football market, the cost to watch the best in the world is extremely reasonable and accessible. MLSE's own market research proved that the GTA had the largest coverage of football in the world, with live games shown weekly from every major league on the face of the planet. Surely if they expected individuals to pony up their hard earned cash the "market value", for footy supporters, would be compared to the reasonable cost of watching the best? The NHL, NBA and MLB are the greatest leagues in the world at their respected sports, only a fool would compare the MLS to them, no?

TFC's cost to value ratio is totally out of proportion. I don't even believe the TFC product is equal to the other MLSE sister, the Marlies. The AHL has a realistic value proposition that MLSE has recognized and done a good job of identifying and positioning.

Not that this was the last straw but I just purchased tickets to see Celtic play Barcelona in the Champions League, arguably football's best competition. Those tickets are cheaper than my TFC tickets to see the mighty Chicago Fire on Wednesday evening.

No more money from me.

Sorry Tom, I will not be renewing next season.

ensco
09-10-2012, 11:53 AM
All I've ever seen from our players towards the fans is the "waving arms" lets get loud/pumped up action.

II wasn't really speaking to the specifics of that example (although I vividly recall some chants from the good ol days from the south end that seemed totally obliviously to game situation! but like I say, not my point).

True Fan who renews no matter what is doing the team no favours. I say that as someone who may renew.

narduch
09-10-2012, 11:56 AM
Yes but all these aftermarket businesses are a better cause for your loonies? These basically legal scalpers are the future it seems.


Legal scalpers like the Stub Hub type sites are one thing.

That does't include season ticket holders trying to sell tickets themselves.

People should go to Craigslist or Kijiji and do a search for 'Toronto FC'. That will give you a good idea of the value of Toronto FC season tickets.

TFC Cityboy
09-10-2012, 12:03 PM
I am in it for the long haul and while I have fallen out of love with the club to an extent, my almost 40 years of supporting Manchester City teaches me that when the good days come they are so so sweet to those who stand by their shitty team in bad times. Anyone who witnessed me at BMO that day in May 2011 when City ended 35 years of futility will attest to what it meant to me.

I recognise that we have owners that do not have a clue how to run a football club. I have missed more games in 2012 than in the previous 5 years combined as I have prioritised my kids' games and holidays over TFC but I love the friendships and cameraderie we have in 115 and would miss that if I no longer belonged in there.

Yes I feel abused and taken for granted at times by the club, but my football club is a huge part of who I am and you will take me out of 115 in a pine box.

turnbr
09-10-2012, 12:17 PM
I'm going to be having a long chat on wednesday with my co holder and number 2 on the list season ticket holder about whether after 6 years... 4 in 123, 1 in 122 and 1 in the north end... do the math... we renew. I'm thinking he's not going for it. I dont blame him. I just want a drinking buddy again :-( I dont see the point. I hated Winter but MAriner is just the opposite of football. He was a shite player and i loved Scotland pumping his England team in the 70s. And Ipswich despite their success were a rubbish bunch of cretins. I cant pay good money to watch a goalie hoof the ball to no-one for 90 mins. I dont see anything changing in the team direction or the backroom direction. Its a shiitshow and i can't believe that its exactly 6 months ago that 47000 of us were enjoying a 2-0 lead at the skydome and 6 months later we are at the absolute clusterfuck we are at now and still going down. Utterly depressing and a colossal waste of money. what is the fucking point.

+ 1 !!!
except for that bit about your season's tickets and your sections.
and except that part about Scotland pumping the Brits.
or the bit about Ipswich cretins.
Other than that, I agree with you 100% ;-)

I have had seasons seats for 3 years now and was 1 of the 47,000.
With the birth of our first baby, I will not be renewing. I'd rather use the money to buy my lad a good kit and a ball.

Pookie
09-10-2012, 12:18 PM
Whitecaps seasons ticket pricing
http://www.canadiansoccernews.com/content.php?3724-Early-birds-have-cheap-Whitecaps-season-tickets-to-catch

they offer a 12% discount if you renew between 22 Sept to 3 Oct

So, when you throw taxes back on... a North Stand vantage point costs a TFC fan $105 more... or $210 for a pair.... than in Vancouver based on TFC's 2012 prices and VAN's 2013 offer

Fort York Redcoat
09-10-2012, 12:28 PM
Obviously a personal decision. My 2 cents:

Sometimes being a smart fan, and being a true fan, is not the same thing. This caught my eye yesterday


True Fan does not want to hear this, but imho only Smart Fan helps his team.

TL; DR (IMHO);)

Why? I guess I didn't want to hear it. Proving your point- but try to tell me that you didn't just insult your True Fan backhandedly be inferring he isn't Smart.

Still with the insults...

Respect, people, respect.

ensco
09-10-2012, 12:33 PM
try to tell me that you didn't just insult your True Fan backhandedly be inferring he isn't Smart.

True Fan can't handle the Truth :drinking:

Ultra & Proud
09-10-2012, 12:55 PM
Whitecaps seasons ticket pricing
http://www.canadiansoccernews.com/content.php?3724-Early-birds-have-cheap-Whitecaps-season-tickets-to-catch

they offer a 12% discount if you renew between 22 Sept to 3 Oct

Maybe I'm looking at this all wrong but aren't their seats the same in some similar spot or even more expensive than ours? That 12% there doesn't look like a good deal but it's something.

I really think TFC needs to address the price drops by Montreal & Vancouver and match or beat those prices. Especially with what's been happening with the club and to the support this season. A roll back to year 2 or 3 pricing seems doable. They'll never roll back to year one pricing. No way. I am probably an idiot but I think that's what they are mulling over now. Seems to me that the whole renewal thing has been pretty hush hush these days whereas in the past they'd have had those PA announcements and that booth set up by gate 1 already. I am expecting something from them in this regard but I guess I should prepare myself for some level of disappointment.

nfitz
09-10-2012, 01:01 PM
So, when you throw taxes back on... a North Stand vantage point costs a TFC fan $105 more... or $210 for a pair.... than in Vancouver based on TFC's 2012 prices and VAN's 2013 offerTrue - but a South Stand vantage point costs a TFC fan $34 less than VAN's 2013 offer.

There's certainly differences in the pricing ... some seats are more expensive compared to BMO Field, some are less. Keep in mind that both Vancouver and Montreal advertise their pricing not including taxes, unlike Toronto pricing that includes taxes.

For those angling for price reductions ... if they do happen, it's very unlikely that that they'd be much discount to the cheaper yellow and light-grey seats. For 2012 we only saw price reductions for some of the more expensive seats, and I'd expect similar this year, if there are to be any reductions.

Best one could probably hope for is some kind of promotion like this ... pay early and get a discount. Perhaps something similar to what TFC did for the 2011 sales.

Derko
09-10-2012, 01:02 PM
I just remember NYRB being the shite they were a few years ago, and now they are not a bad team, this can happen in MLS. Optimistic I suppose. I will renew.

TOBOR !
09-10-2012, 01:35 PM
I just remember NYRB being the shite they were a few years ago, and now they are not a bad team, this can happen in MLS. Optimistic I suppose. I will renew.

NYRB aren't operated by MLSE.

Fort York Redcoat
09-10-2012, 02:15 PM
True Fan can't handle the Truth :drinking:

Now you're complicating things...Is True Fan not smart OR drunk OR...BOTH g:D.

trane
09-10-2012, 02:18 PM
You like more than one team. Mystery solved.

What does that have to do with anything? the numbers are the numbers, and Montreal in year one is a much better team then we were in the first several years, and is still a better team then us today, whether you like Montreal and I do like Montreal, because of the Italian connection, those numbers are clear. But I am a Torontonian and I am not comfortable with supporting teams from other cities, even if it is a city that I have a great affinity for. I just wish TFC was much different then it is, or that we had another MLS team to support.

The only thing that I have to say for Montreal and Vancouver, is that I expected them to be better then we were because they already has a solid base to build on, but six year in it is no longer a viable excuse.

C.Ronaldo
09-10-2012, 02:18 PM
NYRB aren't operated by MLSE.

agreed, NYR has other sports clubs/ events that prove that can do this

MLSE has others sports clubs that prove they cant

simple as that.


This isnt just a TFC thing for me, its an MLSE thing.


My money will not go towards the
Leafs
Raptors
Marlies
TFC.

My money will go towards:
The Rock
Argos
CSL & NASL
vacations
even musicals & the circus

OgtheDim
09-10-2012, 02:22 PM
True Fan can't handle the Truth :drinking:

If I had 10 cents for every time I saw that line of reasoning on the internet, I'd be able to buy TFC and run em proper.

Pookie
09-10-2012, 02:29 PM
True - but a South Stand vantage point costs a TFC fan $34 less than VAN's 2013 offer.

There's certainly differences in the pricing ... some seats are more expensive compared to BMO Field, some are less. Keep in mind that both Vancouver and Montreal advertise their pricing not including taxes, unlike Toronto pricing that includes taxes.

For those angling for price reductions ... if they do happen, it's very unlikely that that they'd be much discount to the cheaper yellow and light-grey seats. For 2012 we only saw price reductions for some of the more expensive seats, and I'd expect similar this year, if there are to be any reductions.

Best one could probably hope for is some kind of promotion like this ... pay early and get a discount. Perhaps something similar to what TFC did for the 2011 sales.

I do agree that angling for a discount in Supporters seats is not likely to happen. That said, prices there are well above the league average so there is certainly a case to be made.

That said, one thing VAN and Montreal do is offer youth/student rates. If you are a student in VAN you can sit at the back of what would be equivalent to the south end and/or north stand for $199 plus taxes. Montreal offers a similar youth rate for its family section.

All other sections though are deserving of massive roll backs in the hundreds of dollars. They are simply overpriced and the sales patterns reflect this.

Carts
09-10-2012, 02:37 PM
I'm renewing... I love this team - I feel they are MY team...

I know, I know - by doing so, MLSE has no reason to change...

When I talk about TFC, I say things like "...wow, WE really suck..." or "...well WE blew a lead yet again..."

When I'm talking about others its "...damn the Leafs suck..." even though I am a big Leaf fan...

I love going to the games, and I love being at BMO... Also, my tickets are like real estate. I love the location of them, they have been mine forever, and I don't want someone else owning them... Weird I know...

If I was to not renew, I know I could make any game. I know I could get to playoff games and even an MLS Cup if that miracle occurred - but they wouldn't be my seats...

I love this club, and love having a piece of it and a 'home' at BMO...

It is what it is...

Carts...

TOBOR !
09-10-2012, 02:40 PM
the poll results are intriguing. I wonder how reflective they are over the ST population overall ?
Can we extrapolate the numbers to say 60% of all holders (if polled today) would say that they aren't going to renew ?

It would also be interesting to see where the responders are located within BMO. Read : are most of the renewers in the supporter sections ?

C.Ronaldo
09-10-2012, 02:49 PM
the poll results are intriguing. I wonder how reflective they are over the ST population overall ?
Can we extrapolate the numbers to say 60% of all holders (if polled today) would say that they aren't going to renew ?

It would also be interesting to see where the responders are located within BMO. Read : are most of the renewers in the supporter sections ?
is a sub poll possible? lol

im a west side greyer

Ultra & Proud
09-10-2012, 02:52 PM
the poll results are intriguing. I wonder how reflective they are over the ST population overall ?
Can we extrapolate the numbers to say 60% of all holders (if polled today) would say that they aren't going to renew ?

It would also be interesting to see where the responders are located within BMO. Read : are most of the renewers in the supporter sections ?
I expect that when it actually comes time to renew a good amount of people, including some who complain a lot, will renew. Happens every year. I imagine this year will be the lowest renewing total ever but nowhere near the numbers on that poll. I bet something like 70% renew.

backbeat
09-10-2012, 03:02 PM
I expect that when it actually comes time to renew a good amount of people, including some who complain a lot, will renew. Happens every year. I imagine this year will be the lowest renewing total ever but nowhere near the numbers on that poll. I bet something like 70% renew.

i wonder - there are 16,000 STH and nowhere near that many that visit any boards - i think you're right that probably 70% of the people who frequent this site may renew but i think a far smaller % of the mass will renew.

Ultra & Proud
09-10-2012, 03:14 PM
i wonder - there are 16,000 STH and nowhere near that many that visit any boards - i think you're right that probably 70% of the people who frequent this site may renew but i think a far smaller % of the mass will renew.

I say about 65 to 70% total will renew. I know people, not in these groups, who said for 3 years they would never renew but each year all of them did. Of course much will depend on what TFC does and what they offer. If they do something nuts and raise the price then this is all out the window. I think they are smarter than that. I think they will do something. What and how much, we'll have to wait and see.

bones
09-10-2012, 03:14 PM
I'm not renewing in till mlse is gone and I'm thinking about getting season tickets for the CFL 500$ gets you the centre field 1st row and you have 8 months to pay it off.

And they have no stadium planned for all of 2013....ummmm.....

cementhead
09-10-2012, 03:27 PM
All be back,but number of ticket will depend on price and what they do with this team.

Fort York Redcoat
09-10-2012, 03:47 PM
What does that have to do with anything? the numbers are the numbers, and Montreal in year one is a much better team then we were in the first several years, and is still a better team then us today, whether you like Montreal and I do like Montreal, because of the Italian connection, those numbers are clear. But I am a Torontonian and I am not comfortable with supporting teams from other cities, even if it is a city that I have a great affinity for. I just wish TFC was much different then it is, or that we had another MLS team to support.

The only thing that I have to say for Montreal and Vancouver, is that I expected them to be better then we were because they already has a solid base to build on, but six year in it is no longer a viable excuse.

This. Even with all we disagree on, we agree on this. Your liking a style a play or cultural affiliation does not make you a Montreal supporter anymore than my Scottish link makes me a Portland or Vancouver supporter. Big difference having a TFC supporter point out how far we have to go. At least we want the improvement.

Rene Kingsriver
09-10-2012, 06:26 PM
I say about 65 to 70% total will renew. I know people, not in these groups, who said for 3 years they would never renew but each year all of them did. Of course much will depend on what TFC does and what they offer. If they do something nuts and raise the price then this is all out the window. I think they are smarter than that. I think they will do something. What and how much, we'll have to wait and see.

65-70% of 16,000 is only 9,600 to 11,200. The likelihood is those would be more expensive seats too, I think the FO would rightly see that as a catastrophe.

Suds
09-10-2012, 06:42 PM
65-70% of 16,000 is only 9,600 to 11,200. The likelihood is those would be more expensive seats too, I think the FO would rightly see that as a catastrophe.

Is 16k what they sold last year for season seats? I seem to recall it was higher. Anyway, a drop of 30%-45% of their ticket base would be a catastrophe. I don't think it will be that drastic. Just my gut feeling. Even though the 14k number was used as a target I think it will be a serious hit to TFC if the SSH number dropped below 16k from where they once were.

Carts
09-10-2012, 07:01 PM
I don't think you can take this poll and relate it to the entire crowd at all...

There are plenty of season tickets out there attached to companies, who will renew no matter how bad the team is - to have them for business...

There are corporate seats attached to sponsor deals and such that are renewed automatically as part of those deals...

Those are all counted in the 'renewal rate' I'm sure, as they are sold seats that are sold again...

Of all the people willing to not-renew based on the performance of the club, its the "fans"... Not the hardcore supporters, not the billionaire company or sponsor deal - but the fan who goes, wants to see a win, wants to be entertained, wants to have hope...

They're first, and they are starting / have started to leave - but there are still plenty of companies, plenty of deals, and plenty supporters who just can't pull the cord, that will keep renewal rate "decent"... Not "great" (those days are gone) but there's still enough to keep them going...

Like I said, I am renewing, I'm one of those people who just can't / don't want to pull the cord...

Just my 2-cents...

nfitz
09-10-2012, 07:12 PM
Paul tweeted that renewals are still being planned. Doesn't know when they'll start, but he guesses it would be a monthish.

Good to see so many people excited about renewals though ... if people weren't interested, they wouldn't be so keen to discuss it! :hide:

Derko
09-10-2012, 07:12 PM
NYRB aren't operated by MLSE.

How true is that

Initial B
09-10-2012, 07:14 PM
Oh crap, I just realized... MLSE isn't going to worry about the fans - they're just going to sell the season tickets to the Corporations by selling them on summer games nights to entertain clients when there are no other events going on. The Corps will use them as tax write-offs and we'll be just like the Leafs, but on grass. :(

TOBOR !
09-10-2012, 07:23 PM
Is 16k what they sold last year for season seats? I seem to recall it was higher. Anyway, a drop of 30%-45% of their ticket base would be a catastrophe. I don't think it will be that drastic. Just my gut feeling. Even though the 14k number was used as a target I think it will be a serious hit to TFC if the SSH number dropped below 16k from where they once were.

The exact number of renewals is unimportant really. It'll be lower than last year, guaranteed. They may have sold all 16,000 season tickets last year, but I'm sure they had to be creative to do it... and it took longer than previous years.

I doubt they'll accomplish it this year, and we'll start to see a trend.

tiberius
09-10-2012, 08:26 PM
http://redpatchboys.ca/forums/images/styles/AnimatedArena/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by ensco http://redpatchboys.ca/forums/images/styles/AnimatedArena/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?p=1527174#post1527174)
True Fan can't handle the Truth :drinking:



Now you're complicating things...Is True Fan not smart OR drunk OR...BOTH g:D.


Unfortunately Ensco's original link is password protected, so I have to speculate a bit on this for you York...
I think what Ensco is clearly saying is that that Smart Fan drinks a lot:drunk:, which allows him to handle the truth. The (wisely inebriated) Smart Fan is far too busy ordering more beer to get overly upset about the route 1 hoof-ball, the two faced corporate bureaucracy, the three wise men, the four DPs, the five price increases, the six seasons of futility, the seven coaches, the eight FO ticket "executives", the nine FO "coordinators", the ten... etc.. etc... the 132 players, etc, etc... In fact smart fan eventually just passes out and forgets to renew...:sleep:

On the other hand (sober) True Fan has to deal with all this shit without the aid of his friend, John Barleycorn:crazy::crazy::crazy: . In this case, the only hope for the pain to go away is to renew and pray for a winning season that will allow the painful memories to fade to a distant memory...:hurray::hurray:

jazzy
09-10-2012, 08:34 PM
I'm renewing... I love this team - I feel they are MY team...

I know, I know - by doing so, MLSE has no reason to change...

When I talk about TFC, I say things like "...wow, WE really suck..." or "...well WE blew a lead yet again..."

When I'm talking about others its "...damn the Leafs suck..." even though I am a big Leaf fan...

I love going to the games, and I love being at BMO... Also, my tickets are like real estate. I love the location of them, they have been mine forever, and I don't want someone else owning them... Weird I know...

If I was to not renew, I know I could make any game. I know I could get to playoff games and even an MLS Cup if that miracle occurred - but they wouldn't be my seats...

I love this club, and love having a piece of it and a 'home' at BMO...

It is what it is...

Carts...

^in many ways I agree,...although I'm strongly disappointed with next years outlook....lost ALL respect for Mr. M and above ...heartfelt acknowledgement to the boys on the team who still care...my wife however treats her visits to bmo as a duty and loves everyone around her..(ok there is one drunk pisser and of course he'll renew) lol...plus side there are so many people whether i agree with or not that are part of our world with which we would never have come into contact..and are the better for it.....you ALL know the negative side..............let me expand on that (just kidding)....hate it that I feel so disrespected by FO and would love some team decisions to have a little more class/family side to them hello Milos, Soolsma,..Dero...Mr. Frings Mr Winter...blah blah...would love a classy tradition win or lose to be the norm....I can dream can't I......we are on the limb but the wife will as usual win out..lol...all it would take for me is for Mariner to leave........say no more.....on the credit card promo ha anyone who gives me a credit card is nuts.....DaveyT..we'll miss ya ..class act and real supporter

lips
09-10-2012, 09:19 PM
My financial situation hit me pretty hard this year especially towards the end of the summer so I don't think I will renew even though I love my seat location and all the perks that go with my current location that you don't get in other parts of the stadium. If I could find someone to buy the seasons from me and I keep the rights I would do it to keep the seats because I should have corrected my situation by next year but considering the fact that I couldn't even give away the few pairs that I didn't use this year it doesn't bode well for that plan. If they dropped the price significantly I may be able to manage but I doubt there will be a drop. Sad time for me cause I make it to almost every game right now and will miss having my same seats. I will just have to pick some tickets up next year as the season goes probably if the price is right. I will continue to bug my friends to join in on the season tickets with me in the meantime and you never know, I may be able to convince someone to split them.Hey we will talk at the next game. It will all work out I can't lose my neighbour:)

tiberius
09-10-2012, 09:22 PM
^ ...heartfelt acknowledgement to the boys on the team who still care...
... and would love some team decisions to have a little more class/family side to them
...would love a classy tradition win or lose to be the norm....
... I can dream can't I......

Yes Jazzy you can dream - in fact I share the same dream... Isn't that all we are really asking for? A little class? Some high quality behaviour, some integrity, honesty, dignity... some style? That also helps to build a storied club...

It grates to pay high class prices to a low class organization for a poor product. A high class organization that fields a mediocre team would be AOK in my books...

When your dream comes true jazzy, I will be first in line to get season tickets again, until then... meh. I don't like to do business with, nor have a relationship with, those who do not have integrity.

Alonso
09-10-2012, 09:30 PM
Yes Jazzy you can dream - in fact I share the same dream... Isn't that all we are really asking for? A little class? Some high quality behaviour, some integrity, honesty, dignity... some style? That also helps to build a storied club...

It grates to pay high class prices to a low class organization for a poor product. A high class organization that fields a mediocre team would be AOK in my books...

When your dream comes true jazzy, I will be first in line to get season tickets again, until then... meh. I don't like to do business with, nor have a relationship with, those who do not have integrity.

Yes. Oh God yes.

This is sorely lacking in this organization, and perhaps would make the difference.

And totally agreed on participating with an organization/company that has no class in how it treats its players and coaches, both past and present.

If I had to guess, Milos will be the next casualty of this depravity.

123 elite
09-10-2012, 09:41 PM
+ 1 !!!
except for that bit about your season's tickets and your sections.
and except that part about Scotland pumping the Brits.
or the bit about Ipswich cretins.
Other than that, I agree with you 100% ;-)

.

Eh? Is that a wind up?

tiberius
09-10-2012, 09:41 PM
Yes. Oh God yes.

I thought for a minute there, that you were having a Meg Ryan moment...

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/09/04/article-1052409-0038532600000258-967_468x307.jpg



If I had to guess, Milos will be the next casualty of this depravity.

Lets hope not - sometimes bad organizations can make the right decisions, for the wrong reasons, and everything works out OK...

narduch
09-10-2012, 09:41 PM
Is 16k what they sold last year for season seats?

In an interview at the start of this season, Paul Berine stated that season tickets were sold out at 16,000 for this season.

This is despite the fact that at this time last year they set the goal of 18,000 for season tickets.

So they lowered their target by 2,000 and than claimed it was a sell out.

Classic MLSE.

tiberius
09-10-2012, 09:47 PM
In an interview at the start of this season, Paul Berine stated that season tickets were sold out at 16,000 for this season.

This is despite the fact that at this time last year they set the goal of 18,000 for season tickets.

So they lowered their target by 2,000 and than claimed it was a sell out.

Classic MLSE.

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/images/1030-02.jpg

narduch
09-10-2012, 09:50 PM
George Bush's presidency reminds me a lot of the leadership at MLSE and TFC FO.

CretanBull
09-10-2012, 09:58 PM
George Bush's presidency reminds me a lot of the leadership at MLSE and TFC FO.

TFC FO, George Bush and the word "leadership" all used in the same sentence, proving there's a first time for everything!

ensco
09-10-2012, 10:22 PM
http://redpatchboys.ca/forums/images/styles/AnimatedArena/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by ensco http://redpatchboys.ca/forums/images/styles/AnimatedArena/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?p=1527174#post1527174)
True Fan can't handle the Truth :drinking:





Unfortunately Ensco's original link is password protected, so I have to speculate a bit on this for you York...
I think what Ensco is clearly saying is that that Smart Fan drinks a lot:drunk:, which allows him to handle the truth. The (wisely inebriated) Smart Fan is far too busy ordering more beer to get overly upset about the route 1 hoof-ball, the two faced corporate bureaucracy, the three wise men, the four DPs, the five price increases, the six seasons of futility, the seven coaches, the eight FO ticket "executives", the nine FO "coordinators", the ten... etc.. etc... the 132 players, etc, etc... In fact smart fan eventually just passes out and forgets to renew...:sleep:

On the other hand (sober) True Fan has to deal with all this shit without the aid of his friend, John Barleycorn:crazy::crazy::crazy: . In this case, the only hope for the pain to go away is to renew and pray for a winning season that will allow the painful memories to fade to a distant memory...:hurray::hurray:

Very good!

Not what I was saying, actually better. :hump:

Joe Kool
09-11-2012, 07:42 AM
Hey we will talk at the next game. It will all work out I can't lose my neighbour:)

Ok Mike. I was going to talk to you about it next game anyhow. See you then.

TOBOR !
09-11-2012, 08:29 AM
hypothetical situation :

Your favourite band puts out a new album.

You've listened to all the sample tracks online.

It's pure crap. You can't stand it.

Do you still buy the album ?

Fort York Redcoat
09-11-2012, 08:59 AM
hypothetical situation :

Your favourite band puts out a new album.

You've listened to all the sample tracks online.

It's pure crap. You can't stand it.

Do you still buy the album ?

LOVE THESE...

NO.

I buy a ticket to their concert while they're in town and make a sign saying "YOU SOLD OUT".

:)

Initial B
09-11-2012, 09:02 AM
^ Yes - Maybe it will grow on me and I'll learn to appreciate their new sound. :D

C.Ronaldo
09-11-2012, 09:07 AM
This saturday is "my" last BMO game of the year, and the last game that I will hold my season ticket seats.

I planned on having a heart felt ceremony with my seats on saturday, I will trully miss the good ol'days.


Anyone else that's not renewing have anything planned.


I feel like Im breaking up with a long time GF.


I plan on leaving a single red rose on each of my seats as my last gesture as a season ticket holder to MLSE

David_Oliveira
09-11-2012, 09:11 AM
hypothetical situation :

Your favourite band puts out a new album.

You've listened to all the sample tracks online.

It's pure crap. You can't stand it.

Do you still buy the album ?

True story. I bought St. Anger

London
09-11-2012, 09:13 AM
NO- i download it at best

Fort York Redcoat
09-11-2012, 09:13 AM
:violin:

Where's that "Burn your tickets on Youtube" thread.

jabbronies
09-11-2012, 09:14 AM
we have two more home games in October

London
09-11-2012, 09:15 AM
you wont be able to bring in roses, security will claim they are dangerous and make you check them


and i think your bieng a bit overdramatic over dropping your seats, it was your choice to break up the abusive relationship

TOBOR !
09-11-2012, 09:19 AM
okay, so before we get too far off-topic (and the mods shut us down), the idea here is to try and figure out what type of comsumer people are.

Will we purchase something that we don't like, and if we do, under what circumstances, and to what degree ?

Fort York Redcoat
09-11-2012, 09:20 AM
we have two more home games in October


LOL


And a Canada game thank God.

jabbronies
09-11-2012, 09:21 AM
this premature thread is just as bad as the "Renewing / Not Renewing" thread.

C.Ronaldo
09-11-2012, 09:21 AM
I don't think you can take this poll and relate it to the entire crowd at all...

There are plenty of season tickets out there attached to companies, who will renew no matter how bad the team is - to have them for business...

There are corporate seats attached to sponsor deals and such that are renewed automatically as part of those deals...

Those are all counted in the 'renewal rate' I'm sure, as they are sold seats that are sold again...

Of all the people willing to not-renew based on the performance of the club, its the "fans"... Not the hardcore supporters, not the billionaire company or sponsor deal - but the fan who goes, wants to see a win, wants to be entertained, wants to have hope...

They're first, and they are starting / have started to leave - but there are still plenty of companies, plenty of deals, and plenty supporters who just can't pull the cord, that will keep renewal rate "decent"... Not "great" (those days are gone) but there's still enough to keep them going...

Like I said, I am renewing, I'm one of those people who just can't / don't want to pull the cord...

Just my 2-cents...


I use to work with a company that has box seats in section 120. (huge massive company)

They have not renewed due to lack of interest

TFC Tifoso
09-11-2012, 09:21 AM
as a last gesture to MLSE, im gonna fart on mine.........

C.Ronaldo
09-11-2012, 09:22 AM
we have two more home games in October

ooops

I meant "my" last game...our being the other seat.

Although, I imagaine october will be a write off for the TFC games at BMO field for most people aswell


Just like a bad relationship though, I will be coming back everything now and then hoping for change

TOBOR !
09-11-2012, 09:24 AM
LOVE THESE...

NO.

I buy a ticket to their concert while they're in town and make a sign saying "YOU SOLD OUT".

:)

I like this. You're restricting revenue to the artist, while showing support and expressing displeasure at the same time.

ryan
09-11-2012, 09:27 AM
That is killer for MLSE.

For the average joe a box is like 4K a game.

Fort York Redcoat
09-11-2012, 09:28 AM
I like this. You're restricting revenue to the artist, while showing support and expressing displeasure at the same time.

It's not a strategy reserved for the artists I follow, not surprisingly.

C.Ronaldo
09-11-2012, 09:29 AM
you wont be able to bring in roses, security will claim they are dangerous and make you check them


and i think your bieng a bit overdramatic over dropping your seats, it was your choice to break up the abusive relationship


Im "sad" with the organisation. And it really isnt just a money thing! g:D (im here all night folks)

TOBOR !
09-11-2012, 09:29 AM
It's not a strategy reserved for the artists I follow, not surprisingly.

Obviously :)

London
09-11-2012, 09:31 AM
I like this. You're restricting revenue to the artist, while showing support and expressing displeasure at the same time.

restricting revenue how??

by not buying a $15 cd and then paying $60 or more to go see the band so you can hold up a sign?????

its just like the guy who isn't renewing and will spend the money on TFC gear next year instead

TOBOR !
09-11-2012, 09:48 AM
restricting revenue how??

by not buying a $15 cd and then paying $60 or more to go see the band so you can hold up a sign?????

its just like the guy who isn't renewing and will spend the money on TFC gear next year instead

Hopefully the overall sales of this CD will be poor, and the band will revert back to the music their fans like.

You buy the concert ticket because you still like the band, they'll probably play some of the old stuff you enjoy, and you can tell them their new stuff sucks.

To me this is akin to not renewing season tickets, but showing up at the odd game next year, perhaps with a sign to express your opinion.

Belfast_Boy
09-11-2012, 09:53 AM
I wonder if MLSE really gives a crap about what we think or if we are renewing. I don't think they do. we've been given a crap product and told many lies. we pay too much for tickets, beer and merch. our numbers are dwindling and the support isn't what it used to be. why would they give a shit? it's not like we'll do anything.

__wowza
09-11-2012, 10:00 AM
I wonder if MLSE really gives a crap about what we think or if we are renewing. I don't think they do. we've been given a crap product and told many lies. we pay too much for tickets, beer and merch. our numbers are dwindling and the support isn't what it used to be. why would they give a shit? it's not like we'll do anything.

they do, at least, i think they do.
it's a threshold. it's math.

if they sold tickets off of the atmosphere supporters groups provided, surely they'd want to hold on to that. 4k box seats are great when you'd like to bring a client out to a winning team, but what about a losing team? what about a team where your diehards are starting to say "fuck this"? if they were selling the atmosphere to the casual fans, then they're going to be losing a lot of revenue next season at the gate. what does that leave then? selling tickets based off of results?

Fort York Redcoat
09-11-2012, 10:01 AM
restricting revenue how??

by not buying a $15 cd and then paying $60 or more to go see the band so you can hold up a sign?????

its just like the guy who isn't renewing and will spend the money on TFC gear next year instead


It's not about how much money goes to the "band" it's about feeling as though you have a voice. This action, regardless of effect is positive and personal.

This growing popularity of voice through consumerism (or lack thereof) is impersonal and until the explanation is known, anonymously apathetic.

TOBOR !
09-11-2012, 10:04 AM
I wonder if MLSE really gives a crap about what we think or if we are renewing. I don't think they do. we've been given a crap product and told many lies. we pay too much for tickets, beer and merch. our numbers are dwindling and the support isn't what it used to be. why would they give a shit? it's not like we'll do anything.

they care enough to read these boards.

London
09-11-2012, 10:05 AM
it is nice you feel you can effect things

Belfast_Boy
09-11-2012, 10:26 AM
they do, at least, i think they do.
it's a threshold. it's math.

if they sold tickets off of the atmosphere supporters groups provided, surely they'd want to hold on to that. 4k box seats are great when you'd like to bring a client out to a winning team, but what about a losing team? what about a team where your diehards are starting to say "fuck this"? if they were selling the atmosphere to the casual fans, then they're going to be losing a lot of revenue next season at the gate. what does that leave then? selling tickets based off of results?

that's the worst part. they have a very good business model that works without being competitive and has high prices.
TFC is minor compared with the Leaves. (yes I meant that). when they all meet up at ML$E to talk about making more money (I'm sure there's little or few meeting about winning) the TFC boys have to sit in the corner and keep quite.

TOBOR !
09-11-2012, 10:29 AM
it is nice you feel you can effect things

The only thing MLSE needs to continue to fill their pockets, is for good fans to do nothing.

Fort York Redcoat
09-11-2012, 10:38 AM
it is nice you feel you can effect things

Again, it's the attempt that's important to me personally.

The flip side of it is

It's nice people not renewing with a reason have this thread and forums to say so. Otherwise it's just walking away.

London
09-11-2012, 10:38 AM
The only thing MLSE needs to continue to fill their pockets, is for good fans to do nothing.


good fans could also say no to the relationship that they are in, giant companies see dollars and dollars, when someone makes a sign the only thing the company cares about is the fact that the person paid the admission fees

Beach_Red
09-11-2012, 10:47 AM
I wonder if MLSE really gives a crap about what we think or if we are renewing. I don't think they do. we've been given a crap product and told many lies. we pay too much for tickets, beer and merch. our numbers are dwindling and the support isn't what it used to be. why would they give a shit? it's not like we'll do anything.

I think they really do feel that it's cyclical and that they will someday be a winning team and they will sell out the stadium. They understand that now that the novelty of having the team has worn off when the team is winning they'll sell lots of tickets and when they aren't winning they won't sell as many. They accept that.

The problem is, there are other teams in the league that also want to be winning teams and MLSE isn't as good at running a team as most of the other ownership groups. It's not really cyclical and for all the talk of parity it isn't inevitable that this team ever makes the playoffs.

Belfast_Boy
09-11-2012, 10:49 AM
good fans could also say no to the relationship that they are in, giant companies see dollars and dollars, when someone makes a sign the only thing the company cares about is the fact that the person paid the admission fees


you're probably right. I'd like to have a more active protest. something a lot more noticeable. but it's not going to happen. this group, tfc fans and people that live here aren't like that. we're too polite. we're the people that say sorry when somebody else steps on our foot.

TOBOR !
09-11-2012, 11:00 AM
good fans could also say no to the relationship that they are in, giant companies see dollars and dollars, when someone makes a sign the only thing the company cares about is the fact that the person paid the admission fees

What I'm saying is that as long as no-one does anything, nothing will change.

Doing nothing = maintaining status quo.

Not renewing is doing something. It's not abandoning the team, it's trying to affect change.

Belfast_Boy
09-11-2012, 11:03 AM
I think they really do feel that it's cyclical and that they will someday be a winning team and they will sell out the stadium. They understand that now that the novelty of having the team has worn off when the team is winning they'll sell lots of tickets and when they aren't winning they won't sell as many. They accept that.

The problem is, there are other teams in the league that also want to be winning teams and MLSE isn't as good at running a team as most of the other ownership groups. It's not really cyclical and for all the talk of parity it isn't inevitable that this team ever makes the playoffs.


I really hope you are right. but all evidence, the leafs and TFC to date, say something very different.

London
09-11-2012, 11:05 AM
I think they really do feel that it's cyclical and that they will someday be a winning team and they will sell out the stadium. They understand that now that the novelty of having the team has worn off when the team is winning they'll sell lots of tickets and when they aren't winning they won't sell as many. They accept that.

The problem is, there are other teams in the league that also want to be winning teams and MLSE isn't as good at running a team as most of the other ownership groups. It's not really cyclical and for all the talk of parity it isn't inevitable that this team ever makes the playoffs.


parity was the idea for MLs but that is clearly not the case, more often than not teams like La and NY are given special treatment for roster spots because they are high profile teams. also other teams have started to think beyond the next season and are developing for the long term which will pay off over time, TFC is not doing any of this.


you're probably right. I'd like to have a more active protest. something a lot more noticeable. but it's not going to happen. this group, tfc fans and people that live here aren't like that. we're too polite. we're the people that say sorry when somebody else steps on our foot.


your correct, we are too polite from top to bottom

Wull
09-11-2012, 11:11 AM
Given that they've mostly had to use the atmosphere as the main selling point, I'd hope it is a concern that people in the cheaper seats are walking away

TOBOR !
09-11-2012, 11:12 AM
parity was the idea for MLs but that is clearly not the case, more often than not teams like La and NY are given special treatment for roster spots because they are high profile teams. also other teams have started to think beyond the next season and are developing for the long term which will pay off over time, TFC is not doing any of this.


MLS didn't take into account MLSE's inability to competently run a professional sports team.

You've overlooked the TFC Academy, but perhaps you're inferring that they'll make a cockup of any graduates anyway, rendering the entrire enterprise pointless.

Pookie
09-11-2012, 11:15 AM
Here's the question of the day for me. Why does MLSE NEED to have prices where they are? This is a revenue shared league after all. Are we financing a new stadium? Going to spend more on DPs next year? Investing in the league's best coaches, scouts and Academy staff?

Because they can is not an answer that I am prepared to accept and endorse with my wallet.

London
09-11-2012, 11:22 AM
^^^ i haven't forgot about the academy, something that they had to do because of the adidas deal.


I hope TFc turns it around but i kinda feel we are going down the road like the EPL where only a handfull of teams will be contending every season and TFC will not be one of them

bones
09-11-2012, 11:26 AM
Want to do something with impact then? How much $$$ do we have in the RPB coffers stashed for making statement banners etc? How about a full page Ad in one of the Toronto news papers? State the decline of price and improvement in product in Montreal and Vancouver and state clearly that the fans and Supporters don't like what ML$E is doing. Or maybe we can persuade one of the many Media types on our boards to "interview" RPB and get their collective opinion of the state of TFC BEFORE ML$E sets the price of tickets. Either way we need to get the media involved to get the word out. It's no shocker that they haven't released their scheme yet. They're pounding away at a "spin" to make things look good for renewals.

Fort York Redcoat
09-11-2012, 11:34 AM
What I'm saying is that as long as no-one does anything, nothing will change.

Doing nothing = maintaining status quo.

Not renewing is doing something. It's not abandoning the team, it's trying to affect change.

Or it's walking away because it's easier. Just because your reducing yourself to $$$ that MLSE sees doesn't mean we all have to. I don't want to see anyone feel taken advantage of so I advise they get out but honestly, people have been doing this since year two.

This soapbox ain't new. It's just new for you.

(And obviously, not just you, Robot.)

Toronto_Bhoy
09-11-2012, 11:42 AM
This franchise was a "cash cow" for MLSE. With a relatively small investment, the ROI has been tremendous, greatly exceeding even their own predictions. However, if you refuse to maintain the consumer's expectations of the product with continued investment, improvement and change, the cash cow begins to erode. Slowly at first but if not corrected, it quickly evaporates, resulting in free fall.

If you work in the TFC STH Retention Department the numbers in this poll are extremely disturbing.

This poll reflects the sentiment of the "most engaged" consumer TFC has. People who live and die with every kick of the ball and 75% of those asked are prepared or are contemplating of walking away. 75%!!!

One would think that the percentage of TFC's STHs who don't consider themselves "hardcore" would be even higher, albeit hard to believe it could be greater.

Next year the South End will be full but the remainder of BMO will be half empty.

I honestly believe average attendance of about 10 or 11k next season, reminiscent of CL crowds.


How MLSE have thrown this away is beyond belief. They have indeed killed the Golden Goose.

TOBOR !
09-11-2012, 11:44 AM
Or it's walking away because it's easier. Just because your reducing yourself $$$ that MLSE sees doesn't mean we all have to. I don't want to see anyone feel taken advantage of so I advise they get out but honestly, people have been doing this since year two.

This soapbox ain't new. It's just new for you.

(And obviously, not just you, Robot.)

I was just trying to explain the point to London.

No soapbox here. Just discussion.

I'm not advocating that anyone does one thing or the other. Obviously it's a personal decision that we all have to make for our own reasons.

Fort York Redcoat
09-11-2012, 11:50 AM
This franchise was a "cash cow" for MLSE. With a relatively small investment, the ROI has been tremendous, greatly exceeding even their own predictions. However, if you refuse to maintain the consumer's expectations of the product with continued investment, improvement and change, the cash cow begins to erode. Slowly at first but if not corrected, it quickly evaporates, resulting in free fall.

If you work in the TFC STH Retention Department the numbers in this poll are extremely disturbing.

This poll reflects the sentiment of the "most engaged" consumer TFC has. People who live and die with every kick of the ball and 75% of those asked are prepared or are contemplating of walking away. 75%!!!

One would think that the percentage of TFC's STHs who don't consider themselves "hardcore" would be even higher, albeit hard to believe it could be greater.

Next year the South End will be full but the remainder of BMO will be half empty.

I honestly believe average attendance of about 10 or 11k next season, reminiscent of CL crowds.


How MLSE have thrown this away is beyond belief. They have indeed killed the Golden Goose.

Not as disturbing when you factor in how many people don't feel they need to say or more likely, justify, why they are renewing. This poll, on the other hand, doesn't take into account the many who are already to the point they walked away from the stadium and talk of the team.


I was just trying to explain the point to London.

No soapbox here. Just discussion.

I'm not advocating that anyone does one thing or the other. Obviously it's a personal decision that we all have to make for our own reasons.

Appreciate that, Robot.

Beach_Red
09-11-2012, 11:59 AM
parity was the idea for MLs but that is clearly not the case, more often than not teams like La and NY are given special treatment for roster spots because they are high profile teams. also other teams have started to think beyond the next season and are developing for the long term which will pay off over time, TFC is not doing any of this.



It's another thing that I'm disappointed about - Toronto could have been one of the teams given special treatment if MLSE had asked for it. The league talked about how important Toronto was - and really what they were talkng about back then were the supporters. It would have been a lot better for the league if Toronto had done well and they would have done the same kinds of things they did for LA and NY. But these arrogant guys blew it.

Belfast_Boy
09-11-2012, 12:27 PM
Want to do something with impact then? How much $$$ do we have in the RPB coffers stashed for making statement banners etc? How about a full page Ad in one of the Toronto news papers? State the decline of price and improvement in product in Montreal and Vancouver and state clearly that the fans and Supporters don't like what ML$E is doing. Or maybe we can persuade one of the many Media types on our boards to "interview" RPB and get their collective opinion of the state of TFC BEFORE ML$E sets the price of tickets. Either way we need to get the media involved to get the word out. It's no shocker that they haven't released their scheme yet. They're pounding away at a "spin" to make things look good for renewals.

that's not happening. the furthest we'll go is to paint a banner. every year we talk about doing "something" because of the state of the club. it's either "too early" or "too late", the "coach hasn't had enough time", "prices were frozen", now "they gave us a shirt". .......we sat down in green once and got lip service. and not the kind that we all enjoy....

personally I'd like to hurt them at home, their home, front office. where they count all our money. slow down their production for a few hours. that would get attention and the media. but that, or anything like that, won't happen. in true Canadian fashion.... sorry for suggesting it.

Toronto_Bhoy
09-11-2012, 12:32 PM
Not as disturbing when you factor in how many people don't feel they need to say or more likely, justify, why they are renewing. This poll, on the other hand, doesn't take into account the many who are already to the point they walked away from the stadium and talk of the team.

True.

I still bump into STHs who walked away, some after Season One. It's not like they don't enjoy a day at the ground or that they refuse to follow the team. They just are no longer prepared to commit to the funds and time. I'm at that point myself.

As a side note, I doubt I'd ever give up my RPB Membership. I get fair more out of this than I get at BMO.

Belfast_Boy
09-11-2012, 12:42 PM
to get back on topic I'm probably renewing.

I still love going to the games and seeing all the boys. it makes it hard when they suck year after year. but for now I'm still going.

Oldtimer
09-11-2012, 01:01 PM
This poll reflects the sentiment of the "most engaged" consumer TFC has. People who live and die with every kick of the ball and 75% of those asked are prepared or are contemplating of walking away. 75%!!!

One would think that the percentage of TFC's STHs who don't consider themselves "hardcore" would be even higher, albeit hard to believe it could be greater.


My own take: Don't read too much into this poll. Only 140 people have voted, and it's in the general section, not the members-only section, so it's not just the die-hard supporters. MOST people are waiting for the pricing details before they decide.

Belfast_Boy
09-11-2012, 01:12 PM
My own take: Don't read too much into this poll. Only 140 people have voted, and it's in the general section, not the members-only section, so it's not just the die-hard supporters. MOST people are waiting for the pricing details before they decide.

you think MOST people haven't already decided? do you really think a discount will change their minds? at best we'll get a price freeze.
and just an FYI, it's in the general section because some supporters aren't members.

Toronto_Bhoy
09-11-2012, 01:19 PM
My own take: Don't read too much into this poll. Only 140 people have voted, and it's in the general section, not the members-only section, so it's not just the die-hard supporters. MOST people are waiting for the pricing details before they decide.

I get your point Oldtimer but short of guys who have TFC tattoos and paint their faces on game day I would consider MOST of 140 people, regardless of RPB membership, amongst the most loyal supporter.

If you visit this board, you're engaged more than the average TFC fan.

TOBOR !
09-11-2012, 01:58 PM
My own take: Don't read too much into this poll. Only 140 people have voted, and it's in the general section, not the members-only section, so it's not just the die-hard supporters. MOST people are waiting for the pricing details before they decide.

This isn't even being discussed in the members section (spoilarz ?).

I think 140 responses is a significant number.

These 140 people represent RPB and non-RPB alike. They represent frequent posters and lurkers, as well as die hards and indifferents.

As it is now, 44% of responders have said they aren't renewing, with 33% on the fence.

I'd think this is enough cause for concern for FO.

Oldtimer
09-11-2012, 02:15 PM
It's still only 140... and yes it isn't being discussed at this time in the members section.

TOBOR !
09-11-2012, 02:25 PM
Well, I'm no actuarian, nor do I play one on TV, but I've a feeling that even if you take partial numbers here there's a reason for concern.

In any case, it's early days, yet. Plenty of time for things to go in one direction or t'other.

The important thing is that there's always enough beer.

jabbronies
09-11-2012, 03:45 PM
I get your point Oldtimer but short of guys who have TFC tattoos and paint their faces on game day I would consider MOST of 140 people, regardless of RPB membership, amongst the most loyal supporter.

If you visit this board, you're engaged more than the average TFC fan.

agree with this.

Members status has nothing to do with anything IMO.
I think the above numbers is a decent indication of the state of supporters in general. Split on all fronts.

Richard
09-11-2012, 05:25 PM
Here's the question of the day for me. Why does MLSE NEED to have prices where they are? This is a revenue shared league after all. Are we financing a new stadium? Going to spend more on DPs next year? Investing in the league's best coaches, scouts and Academy staff?

Because they can is not an answer that I am prepared to accept and endorse with my wallet.


Supply and Demand.

As long as there are individuals willing to pay those prices it is kept high. Pretty simple to me, this city just has a lot of well off people who dont mind paying high prices. You can also add in the fact many diehards believe they got to attend every game or spend money on the team, as if supporting a team cannot be done without shelling out cash.

Pookie
09-11-2012, 06:06 PM
Supply and Demand.

As long as there are individuals willing to pay those prices it is kept high. Pretty simple to me, this city just has a lot of well off people who dont mind paying high prices. You can also add in the fact many diehards believe they got to attend every game or spend money on the team, as if supporting a team cannot be done without shelling out cash.

True to some extent although the most expensive seats are the ones that people are migrating from. People are willing to give up sightlines in favour of (relatively) lower prices. BMO sits approx 3,000 seats short of capacity on most nights... CCL games see it well into the 5 digits short. The additional expense relative to the perceived value of the games impacting demand significantly.

The real renewal number will be extremely interesting. I'm not really convinced that there is a large market at the higher price points.

Richard
09-11-2012, 07:23 PM
True to some extent although the most expensive seats are the ones that people are migrating from. People are willing to give up sightlines in favour of (relatively) lower prices. BMO sits approx 3,000 seats short of capacity on most nights... CCL games see it well into the 5 digits short. The additional expense relative to the perceived value of the games impacting demand significantly.

The real renewal number will be extremely interesting. I'm not really convinced that there is a large market at the higher price points.

I agree with you that the higher STH price points will drop, i think though we will see them move to the middle of the spectrum. I too will be very interested in the numbers as well, for some reason i get this feeling its not going to be as bad as some will predict. I guess my concern is the FO wont get the message about the current prices being not in line with the offered product.

I also wonder how much prices would rise if TFC had made the playoffs, i can only imagine how much more this organization will push the boundries once this team sneaks into the tournament.

asterix606
09-11-2012, 07:23 PM
I heard that MLSE will create a special hot dog promotion to thank its fans and help boost renewal rates.

The hot dog will cost 25$. Once paid, your bun is thrown on the ground.

As you bend down to pick it up, F.O staff ram the wiener where the sun don't shine.

You can then proceed to pick your toppings for your bun, which all cost extra money.

Parkdale
09-11-2012, 08:29 PM
This franchise was a "cash cow" for MLSE. With a relatively small investment, the ROI has been tremendous, greatly exceeding even their own predictions. However, if you refuse to maintain the consumer's expectations of the product with continued investment, improvement and change, the cash cow begins to erode. Slowly at first but if not corrected, it quickly evaporates, resulting in free fall.

If you work in the TFC STH Retention Department the numbers in this poll are extremely disturbing.

This poll reflects the sentiment of the "most engaged" consumer TFC has. People who live and die with every kick of the ball and 75% of those asked are prepared or are contemplating of walking away. 75%!!!

One would think that the percentage of TFC's STHs who don't consider themselves "hardcore" would be even higher, albeit hard to believe it could be greater.

Next year the South End will be full but the remainder of BMO will be half empty.

I honestly believe average attendance of about 10 or 11k next season, reminiscent of CL crowds.


How MLSE have thrown this away is beyond belief. They have indeed killed the Golden Goose.

short answer:

they never built their success, they got lucky and had a gold mine handed to them.
Then they never had to learn how to do things properly, simply because they felt responsible for their good fortune.

You never learn how to solve a problem when you just throw money at it. You don't build solutions (or experience) - you just buy time. Time is almost up.

It's like a kid inheriting the family business - sure the company is stable enough to survive the first few years, but what happens when the kid is really put to the test? We're going to find out really soon.

Parkdale
09-11-2012, 08:31 PM
I heard that MLSE will create a special hot dog promotion to thank its fans and help boost renewal rates.

The hot dog will cost 25$. Once paid, your bun is thrown on the ground.

As you bend down to pick it up, F.O staff ram the wiener where the sun don't shine.

You can then proceed to pick your toppings for your bun, which all cost extra money.



are you 12?

there are grownups talking here.

let's keep this discussion on track, and on topic (whatever that may be, it's not about hotdogs in the butt)

tiberius
09-11-2012, 08:54 PM
... If you work in the TFC STH Retention Department the numbers in this poll are extremely disturbing.

This poll reflects the sentiment of the "most engaged" consumer TFC has. People who live and die with every kick of the ball and 75% of those asked are prepared or are contemplating of walking away. 75%!!!

One would think that the percentage of TFC's STHs who don't consider themselves "hardcore" would be even higher, albeit hard to believe it could be greater.

Next year the South End will be full but the remainder of BMO will be half empty.

I honestly believe average attendance of about 10 or 11k next season, reminiscent of CL crowds.

Whoa - T-Bhoy - I don't think average attendance this year is 10 or 11K - sure people paid for seats, but have 11K really showed up? I don't think so - BMO is pretty empty overall - south end maybe 2500-3000 (being generous) - the rest is pretty pathetic. If TFC gets 11K in actual attendance next year - I will eat my jersey!! The 3 stooges (aka wisemen) will thank their lucky stars to get 11K in paid seats - but actual attendance - will not be 5 figures...

shimsha2005
09-11-2012, 09:22 PM
are you 12?

there are grownups talking here.

let's keep this discussion on track, and on topic (whatever that may be, it's not about hotdogs in the butt)

His or her comment was the first to make me laugh and I appreciated his comment. Relax mate.

Alonso
09-11-2012, 09:23 PM
short answer:

they never built their success, they got lucky and had a gold mine handed to them.
Then they never had to learn how to do things properly, simply because they felt responsible for their good fortune.

You never learn how to solve a problem when you just throw money at it. You don't build solutions (or experience) - you just buy time. Time is almost up.

It's like a kid inheriting the family business - sure the company is stable enough to survive the first few years, but what happens when the kid is really put to the test? We're going to find out really soon.


This is it, and I don't think they know yet.

I think they assume that they built the success.

I have no doubt in my mind that if they nurtured what was handed to them they could easily fill a 35,000 seat stadium with standing singing fans.

Instead they shat on it.

123 elite
09-11-2012, 09:38 PM
short answer:

they never built their success, they got lucky and had a gold mine handed to them.
Then they never had to learn how to do things properly, simply because they felt responsible for their good fortune.

You never learn how to solve a problem when you just throw money at it. You don't build solutions (or experience) - you just buy time. Time is almost up.

It's like a kid inheriting the family business - sure the company is stable enough to survive the first few years, but what happens when the kid is really put to the test? We're going to find out really soon.

This is quite possibly the smartest thing ever said on these boards

ensco
09-11-2012, 09:58 PM
This is quite possibly the smartest thing ever said on these boards

Agree

Toronto_Bhoy
09-11-2012, 10:22 PM
short answer:

they never built their success, they got lucky and had a gold mine handed to them.
Then they never had to learn how to do things properly, simply because they felt responsible for their good fortune.

You never learn how to solve a problem when you just throw money at it. You don't build solutions (or experience) - you just buy time. Time is almost up.

It's like a kid inheriting the family business - sure the company is stable enough to survive the first few years, but what happens when the kid is really put to the test? We're going to find out really soon.

Great post Parky but let's keep this in perspective.

We know for a fact that MLSE did a ton of research before making the decision to invest in the football and the MLS. This didn't fall out of the sky into their lap. True, they had no idea how this thing would catch fire but they are certainly not fools when it comes to making money and they make money…lots of it. Their investors are very, very happy with their performance, ask retired Ontario teachers.

The MLS franchise they purchased was not an "inherited family business", they made some very shrude decisions and alliances that put TFC is a position to be a success before a ball was every kick. They didn't get lucky, this market was busting for a professional football team. MLSE built a foundation for success and it worked very, very well.

However, it was never maintained and now we're seeing the results of neglect.

Hamilton_Red
09-11-2012, 10:27 PM
TFC needs to apologize to the fans for this season and then offer at least a 20% reduction for renewals. Anything less then I will pre pretty UN-likely to renew.

Furtado91
09-11-2012, 10:32 PM
I heard that MLSE will create a special hot dog promotion to thank its fans and help boost renewal rates.

The hot dog will cost 25$. Once paid, your bun is thrown on the ground.

As you bend down to pick it up, F.O staff ram the wiener where the sun don't shine.

You can then proceed to pick your toppings for your bun, which all cost extra money.

This made me LOL hard. I just had to say that. thanks for laugh bud.

Ultra & Proud
09-12-2012, 09:20 AM
Great post Parky but let's keep this in perspective.

We know for a fact that MLSE did a ton of research before making the decision to invest in the football and the MLS. This didn't fall out of the sky into their lap. True, they had no idea how this thing would catch fire but they are certainly not fools when it comes to making money and they make money…lots of it. Their investors are very, very happy with their performance, ask retired Ontario teachers.

The MLS franchise they purchased was not an "inherited family business", they made some very shrude decisions and alliances that put TFC is a position to be a success before a ball was every kick. They didn't get lucky, this market was busting for a professional football team. MLSE built a foundation for success and it worked very, very well.

However, it was never maintained and now we're seeing the results of neglect.
I disagree that it had anything to do with neglect. Incompetence yes, neglect no.

If from day 1, the FO was strong enough to just say 'F¤ck you guys and your ideas. We know what we're doing' to the supporters and average fans and just stuck with a non-Mo direction and lived with shitty results instead of trying to win ASAP, then we'd be much better off now. We'd have suffered through 3-5 years of RSL level crap and then reaped the rewards of that patience. Instead we tossed too much money at a whole list of players who didn't deserve it and that crippled us cap and continuity-wise.

Now we have a manager doing what should have happened in year one but once again people are demanding wins and other things ASAP.

Who's to blame for our woes is simple; us for feeling too entitled and that we deserved to win immediately because we were the most awesomest supporters ever and FO for listening to us.

Rene Kingsriver
09-12-2012, 09:34 AM
I disagree that it had anything to do with neglect. Incompetence yes, neglect no.

If from day 1, the FO was strong enough to just say 'F¤ck you guys and your ideas. We know what we're doing' to the supporters and average fans and just stuck with a non-Mo direction and lived with shitty results instead of trying to win ASAP, then we'd be much better off now. We'd have suffered through 3-5 years of RSL level crap and then reaped the rewards of that patience. Instead we tossed too much money at a whole list of players who didn't deserve it and that crippled us cap and continuity-wise.

Now we have a manager doing what should have happened in year one but once again people are demanding wins and other things ASAP.

Who's to blame for our woes is simple; us for feeling too entitled and that we deserved to win immediately because we were the most awesomest supporters ever and FO for listening to us.

What a load of 'blame the victim' crap, only thing you got right in that whole paragraph was MLSE's incompetence

ReuvenK
09-12-2012, 09:45 AM
Ive been a SSH since day one with 2 in 111 and 4 more in 105. I love the game and LOVE the fact that I can go see it in our great city and have the oppertunity to see other teams from around the world play at BMO. The problem is that MLSE cannot and will NEVER change its attitude towards our teams and/or pricing cause we, the stupid fans, keep buying tickets, jerseys, beer and food. SO MUCH MONEY IS BEING MADE, who cares if anyone is winning at the end of the day. I will be looking to move my 105 seats to a cheaper section for sure. I spend WAY too much for a failing team. GO TFC GO !!!

spark
09-12-2012, 10:13 AM
Now we have a manager doing what should have happened in year one but once again people are demanding wins and other things ASAP.

Sorry if I've missed some of your posts and you've laid this out already but what exactly is he doing that is so revolutionary (heyhooo) that we haven't seen in the last six years/managers?

narduch
09-12-2012, 10:27 AM
Who's to blame for our woes is simple; us for feeling too entitled and that we deserved to win immediately because we were the most awesomest supporters ever and FO for listening to us.

LOL.

Sorry, this isn't on the fans.

This is all about incompetent managment.

What a bs excuse for the state of this club.

Suds
09-12-2012, 10:34 AM
I disagree that it had anything to do with neglect. Incompetence yes, neglect no.

If from day 1, the FO was strong enough to just say 'F¤ck you guys and your ideas. We know what we're doing' to the supporters and average fans and just stuck with a non-Mo direction and lived with shitty results instead of trying to win ASAP, then we'd be much better off now. We'd have suffered through 3-5 years of RSL level crap and then reaped the rewards of that patience. Instead we tossed too much money at a whole list of players who didn't deserve it and that crippled us cap and continuity-wise.

Now we have a manager doing what should have happened in year one but once again people are demanding wins and other things ASAP.

Who's to blame for our woes is simple; us for feeling too entitled and that we deserved to win immediately because we were the most awesomest supporters ever and FO for listening to us.

Going to have to call bullshit on this one. There were many discussions on here talking about how it would take a few years before we would see any significant results. We had patience and preached patience for the first few years. Then we were told there was a 5 year plan. But then we had a continued revolving door of players, coaches, ticket increases, security issues, ticket bundles skimming fans for more money, constantly hearing players leaving on bad terms, continued lack of professionalism that all happened. People only really started to get inpatient when year 4 went south. Then 5 was crap and 6 was worse. This all done in a league designed for parity. Add the fact that some feel we are still not going in the right direction and we are where we are.

People are not frustrated because we were crap in year 1 & 2. They're frustrated because at the end of 6 years we are no better than year one.

narduch
09-12-2012, 10:37 AM
People are not frustrated because we were crap in year 1 & 2. They're frustrated because at the end of 6 years we are no better than year one.

If the current trends continue, we will end up with a worse record than season 1 (on a points per game basis).

asterix606
09-12-2012, 10:37 AM
Sorry if I've missed some of your posts and you've laid this out already but what exactly is he doing that is so revolutionary (heyhooo) that we haven't seen in the last six years/managers?

I think he is trying to say that we now have a coach who wears shorts.

Pookie
09-12-2012, 11:06 AM
Now we have a manager doing what should have happened in year one but once again people are demanding wins and other things ASAP.


When a manager trades 2 draft picks, including a 1st round pick for an aging, oft injured short term solution to replace Koevermans... is he not signally that winning now is the objective?

I'm not sure I follow how this course of action relates to successful team building.

mastermixer
09-12-2012, 11:12 AM
When a manager trades 2 draft picks, including a 1st round pick for an aging, oft injured short term solution to replace Koevermans... is he not signally that winning now is the objective?

I'm not sure I follow how this course of action relates to successful team building.

Worst part is, who is in charge of ensuring our manager is doing a good job?

TOBOR !
09-12-2012, 11:20 AM
this thread has suddenly gone LOL !

Canary10
09-12-2012, 11:21 AM
I disagree that it had anything to do with neglect. Incompetence yes, neglect no.

If from day 1, the FO was strong enough to just say 'F¤ck you guys and your ideas. We know what we're doing' to the supporters and average fans and just stuck with a non-Mo direction and lived with shitty results instead of trying to win ASAP, then we'd be much better off now. We'd have suffered through 3-5 years of RSL level crap and then reaped the rewards of that patience. Instead we tossed too much money at a whole list of players who didn't deserve it and that crippled us cap and continuity-wise.

Now we have a manager doing what should have happened in year one but once again people are demanding wins and other things ASAP.

Who's to blame for our woes is simple; us for feeling too entitled and that we deserved to win immediately because we were the most awesomest supporters ever and FO for listening to us.

I think you're better to see who in MLSE management has been there the entire 6 years and demand some change than taking aim at supporters.

Suds
09-12-2012, 11:23 AM
Worst part is, who is in charge of ensuring our manager is doing a good job?

As the Director of Soccer Operations - he is. (I get your question was rhetorical)

Auzzy
09-12-2012, 11:33 AM
I too am really really sick of this "blame the fans" bullshit. If management listens to random suggestions made by supporters & others, then it's still incompetent management. Competent management knows when there's more likely a good reason to listen to fans. E.g., stuff like keeping pricing & increases reasonable; avoiding tied-selling shakedowns; avoiding money-grubbing friendlies if they jeopardize your regular season; working with supporter's groups about stuff like keeping the supporters sections well-organized & fanatical, minimizing unnecessary hassles for supporters & everyone else, etc. etc. etc.

You need some competent management to decide about hiring or firing players, managers, coaches, how much to pay all those guys, general direction of the club, style of play, and anything else related to on-field issues (and even most off-field issues as well). WE HAVE NEVER HAD THAT COMPETENT MANAGEMENT, especially at the upper level. Sure you might let supporters bend your ear if you've made a knowledgeable assessment, and things being more or less equal, you need to decide between a couple of reasonable alternatives.

But if you cruise supporter's boards or town-halls and seriously listen to suggestions for DPs, other hires, when to hire or fire -- especially to save your own job for another season; or to save season-ticket renewals in the short-term -- then IT'S YOUR FAULT, YOU'RE INCOMPETENT, AND YOU SHOULD RESIGN IF NOBODY HAS THE CLUE AND THE BALLS TO FIRE YOU FIRST.

Even so, supporters didn't tell TFC to hire Mo to start & coach a club all alone; they didn't tell TFC to keep Mo long beyond the time when it was obvious that there were serious problems with his management abilities; they didn't tell the club to outsource scouting to player's agents; they didn't tell TFC to over-pay for lots of the mediocre talent that has spent their time in our revolving door; there are many other examples of dumb-ass decisions made by the club all by themselves.

Belfast_Boy
09-12-2012, 11:37 AM
I disagree that it had anything to do with neglect. Incompetence yes, neglect no.

If from day 1, the FO was strong enough to just say 'F¤ck you guys and your ideas. We know what we're doing' to the supporters and average fans and just stuck with a non-Mo direction and lived with shitty results instead of trying to win ASAP, then we'd be much better off now. We'd have suffered through 3-5 years of RSL level crap and then reaped the rewards of that patience. Instead we tossed too much money at a whole list of players who didn't deserve it and that crippled us cap and continuity-wise.

Now we have a manager doing what should have happened in year one but once again people are demanding wins and other things ASAP.

Who's to blame for our woes is simple; us for feeling too entitled and that we deserved to win immediately because we were the most awesomest supporters ever and FO for listening to us.


what are you talking about? we're to blame? really?
have you seen how MLSE runs their other teams? they all suck.
we didn't expect the cup in the first few years. we still don't. wanting to make the playoffs in year 5 or beyond isn't a sense of entitlement. IMO the fans were realistic about how the team would improve. unfortunately the organization didn't give a crap and screwed it up.

London
09-12-2012, 11:43 AM
parkdale was correct, and to add to it this "ship" doesn't have a "captain", everyone is just along for the ride until it hits the iceberg, we haven't seen the lowest lows yet


TFC FO= the titanic

Beach_Red
09-12-2012, 11:46 AM
Great post Parky but let's keep this in perspective.

We know for a fact that MLSE did a ton of research before making the decision to invest in the football and the MLS. This didn't fall out of the sky into their lap. True, they had no idea how this thing would catch fire but they are certainly not fools when it comes to making money and they make money…lots of it. Their investors are very, very happy with their performance, ask retired Ontario teachers.

The MLS franchise they purchased was not an "inherited family business", they made some very shrude decisions and alliances that put TFC is a position to be a success before a ball was every kick. They didn't get lucky, this market was busting for a professional football team. MLSE built a foundation for success and it worked very, very well.

However, it was never maintained and now we're seeing the results of neglect.

Is the bolded part supposed to be in the 'sarcastica' font? What decisions did they make? The league said, "Hey, we have this guy under contract who's coached a few MLS games, why don't you hire him," and they said, "Okay, but not just as a coach, we'll let him run the whole thing." And what alliances? Are you talking about sponsorships?

You are joking, right?

cmonyoureds
09-12-2012, 11:54 AM
I disagree that it had anything to do with neglect. Incompetence yes, neglect no. If from day 1, the FO was strong enough to just say 'F¤ck you guys and your ideas. We know what we're doing' to the supporters and average fans and just stuck with a non-Mo direction and lived with shitty results instead of trying to win ASAP, then we'd be much better off now. We'd have suffered through 3-5 years of RSL level crap and then reaped the rewards of that patience. Instead we tossed too much money at a whole list of players who didn't deserve it and that crippled us cap and continuity-wise.Now we have a manager doing what should have happened in year one but once again people are demanding wins and other things ASAP. Who's to blame for our woes is simple; us for feeling too entitled and that we deserved to win immediately because we were the most awesomest supporters ever and FO for listening to us.You're right!! The fans are most assuredly to blame.In fact, I now demand that in addition to Mr. Cufflinks and Sir Boardshorts, the fans now immediately tender their resignation from this team and vacate the premises.

TOBOR !
09-12-2012, 11:59 AM
Guys, guys... easy on the <CTRL B>, man...

Richard
09-12-2012, 12:06 PM
parkdale was correct, and to add to it this "ship" doesn't have a "captain", everyone is just along for the ride until it hits the iceberg, we haven't seen the lowest lows yet


TFC FO= the titanic

Except the Titanic had good entertainment unlike TFC.......

spark
09-12-2012, 12:29 PM
I think he is trying to say that we now have a coach who wears shorts.

Haha hope this doesn't come across shameless but funny nonetheless

Not a good manager? Wear shorts to stay in your job longer. (http://www.rednationonline.ca/RouseWearshortstostayinyourjoblonger.aspx)

Belfast_Boy
09-12-2012, 12:45 PM
this is slightly related to this thread.

we have a free ticket thread in the members section. has this ever happened before? I know a few tickets have been given away over the years, but a thread dedicated to free tickets for a game?
can't help but think that this is another sign attendance is going down like the aforementioned ship. which I will add was built by Irishmen and sunk by an Englishman... and Mariner is English!

http://getfile2.posterous.com/getfile/files.posterous.com/import-ptvo/hHaBwEbJfifCszplnxbEIfABmggcJxzdholfDjFbHFsCrqAsie artGgvcmhe/media_httpelessarblog_HrIII.jpeg.scaled500.jpg

Belfast_Boy
09-12-2012, 12:49 PM
^^^ if only mojo were irish lol


if he was irish he wouldn't have made if off the island alive!

London
09-12-2012, 12:51 PM
^^^ lol i just cant believe how bad its turned, i just gave tfc a headshake while sittin at the computer

Belfast_Boy
09-12-2012, 01:05 PM
I think it says a lot when guys like Pat, Davyd and Alex are stepping back and there's many more too. if MLSE really believes in this then they need to step up their game.

http://www.theaircanadacentre.com/assets/default/vision_values120610.gif

TOBOR !
09-12-2012, 01:28 PM
this is slightly related to this thread.

we have a free ticket thread in the members section. has this ever happened before? I know a few tickets have been given away over the years, but a thread dedicated to free tickets for a game?
can't help but think that this is another sign attendance is going down like the aforementioned ship. which I will add was built by Irishmen and sunk by an Englishman... and Mariner is English!


He was Jewish.

...Iceberg

Geddit ?

TOBOR !
09-12-2012, 01:33 PM
oh, and there's another reason to join up :
we have a free ticket thread in the members section

Toronto_Bhoy
09-12-2012, 01:37 PM
Is the bolded part supposed to be in the 'sarcastica' font? What decisions did they make? The league said, "Hey, we have this guy under contract who's coached a few MLS games, why don't you hire him," and they said, "Okay, but not just as a coach, we'll let him run the whole thing." And what alliances? Are you talking about sponsorships?

You are joking, right?

No Beach, not joking.

I was talking about decisions and alliances that MLSE leveraged before a ball was kicked.

The concept that Garber called them and said, "Want a franchise?" and MLSE said "Hell ya!" is ridiculous. The due diligence involved in purchasing a professional sports team is a long, calculated process.

Was hiring Mo a mistake? I could have told you that, trust me, "I know MO!".

Did it stop you from buying in? Didn't think so.

Knowing what you knew then (not now) what caused you to throw your hard earned money at them? List the reasons.

Belfast_Boy
09-12-2012, 01:39 PM
ohhhh that's a groaner!

Section 117
09-12-2012, 03:08 PM
I know I am going to take a lot of flack for what I am about to say, but here goes anyways.

I will be renewing my 4 tickets in the supporters section, at the end of the day it avergaes out to $20 a game per seat (which is split between my brother and I). To me that is a fair price for a seat. What I feel sorry for is the people in the 'prawn' sections that pay a ridiculous amount of money to watch this team year in and year out for the last 6 years. I do not blame anyonefor walking away. Also, I am not condoning people that are leaving due to financial concerns or lack of results. This is just my reasoning on my I am staying.

As sad is this sounds I love this team no matter what, I have been around the club long enough to understand certain things will not change i.e. MLSE (Rogers/Bell) selling the club and getting a roof or a proper stadium. The one thing that would make me estatic is the annoucement of Mariner's resignation or firing that is all I want. The thing I miss the most is the atmosphere at the game part of it is the people that have left and the other half is the results on the pitch. (Side note I was at the Canada vs Panama game last Friday and it was amazing, but made me sad as I remeber the old days and how I miss buzz at the game) What I do know is that we are at rock bottom and the only way is up. Are we going to go through another purge and reset of the team probably...

I will not leave my team or my seats, which at the end of the day will make it that much sweeter when this team turns the corner whenever that ends of being. I love my team and no matter what I can't walk out on them.

Toronto_Bhoy
09-12-2012, 03:26 PM
^^A noble post.

trane
09-12-2012, 03:34 PM
short answer:

they never built their success, they got lucky and had a gold mine handed to them.
Then they never had to learn how to do things properly, simply because they felt responsible for their good fortune.

You never learn how to solve a problem when you just throw money at it. You don't build solutions (or experience) - you just buy time. Time is almost up.

It's like a kid inheriting the family business - sure the company is stable enough to survive the first few years, but what happens when the kid is really put to the test? We're going to find out really soon.

That is exactly it. If anything we ( the supporters) were responsible more then them, for we created an atmopshere which is about the only thing that they could sell to the general public, other then the occasional DP type player and "marquee" game.

I understand why people are keeping on buying tickets, but I have said since the end of season 4 that the only thing that MLSE will understand would be $, and when revenues start drying up they would understand the need for change. Sure enough between seaons 4 and season 5 they tried to make a change, one that seemed positive, but once it started to stray off course, they once again took too long to re-act, and then made the most short term, ill thought out move they could make. Hence season 7 seems to be doomed as well, and that seems apparent before seaons 6 has finished. However, I will keep my options open as far as getting seasons again.

Beach_Red
09-12-2012, 04:01 PM
No Beach, not joking.

I was talking about decisions and alliances that MLSE leveraged before a ball was kicked.

The concept that Garber called them and said, "Want a franchise?" and MLSE said "Hell ya!" is ridiculous. The due diligence involved in purchasing a professional sports team is a long, calculated process.

Was hiring Mo a mistake? I could have told you that, trust me, "I know MO!".

Did it stop you from buying in? Didn't think so.

Knowing what you knew then (not now) what caused you to throw your hard earned money at them? List the reasons.

What do you mean by due dilligence? BMO was built for the U20 and the Argo owners expressed some interest in MLS. And that's when MLSE stepped in and bought the franchise - the last "cheap" franchise MLS sold. They had very low projections for potential ticket sales so you could say their due dilligence was very conservative - or you could say it was wrong. Either way, from very early on it blew up far bigger than they expected.

And, to be honest, bigger than I expected. At first BMO looked like a great place to spend a Saturday afternoon having a beer with my friends. And it was something new and I was looking for something that said "Toronto" that didn't have any baggage.

Mo not being qualified for the job wasn't personal for me, I'd never heard of the guy before they introduced him. He had a little MLS experience and I could see where the league owed him because he signed with KC when they were called the Wiz and wore possible the worst uniforms in pro sports (and I remember the California Golden Seals white skates ;)).

But the first sign of trouble came at the end of the first season when the assistant coaches that came from KC with Mo didn't like the contract offers for season two and left. Why had they only been signed to one year contracts? How far off was the due dilligence that resulted in such conservative decisions?

Then they moved Mo upstairs (likely because he was desperate for a job and would do anything his boss told him to - and because he had no other edxperience to fall back on so he could never say, "Look, I've done this before, I know what to do...") and one decision after another went wrong.

What decisions did they make before a ball was kicked that wasn't what anyone in their position would have done?

jloome
09-12-2012, 04:18 PM
The only thing that MLSE will understand would be $.


THis is SOOOOOOO true.

So fucking true.

So utterly, completely, undeniably true.

But I'll go you one further and make an appeal to those going out of love for team or atmosphere: you can get both somewhere else. Not the atmosphere so much, but the people who make up the atmosphere.

Having a good time is always -- ALWAYS, by way of human biochemistry -- grounded in our sense of security. That comes from the people with whom we interact. You can go to the game with same guys, and have a great time ... while being at a bar, watching it on a big screen.

A season of that, with even the most hardcore fans not showing, and we will either get change or a sale. People don't want a money loser. SO make them lose money.

People who go to preserve the culture and tradition are just slowing that change for two hours of biochemical bliss each week, most of which you get from the people, not the environment they're in.

TorCanSoc
09-12-2012, 09:10 PM
You know what... I'm seriously considering supporting my local CSL (CPSL?) team. I'm done with my seasons tix after 6 years of this. Many of us will watch TFC games, I'm sure. But is it time to support another team altogether?

What was up in 112/113 tonight? No one showed up. Did I miss a protest or something?

Suds
09-12-2012, 09:18 PM
Just had the people next to me who own 4 seats in the +$1k range per seat say they were done with it. Not sure if they were just frustrated or meant they are done with their season seats. Either way, they left after the second goal none too happy.

Toronto_Bhoy
09-13-2012, 12:14 AM
But the first sign of trouble came at the end of the first season when the assistant coaches that came from KC with Mo didn't like the contract offers for season two and left. Why had they only been signed to one year contracts? How far off was the due dilligence that resulted in such conservative decisions?

Then they moved Mo upstairs (likely because he was desperate for a job and would do anything his boss told him to - and because he had no other edxperience to fall back on so he could never say, "Look, I've done this before, I know what to do...") and one decision after another went wrong.



Once again Beach you are rambling on about what has happened after the fact. My point was that MLSE built a solid foundation for success before a ball was kicked in the spring of '07.

I know two people within the MLSE organization who were aware of the opportunity to acquire an MLS team nearly two years beforehand. There was extensive research done on how to go about marketing the game here. They looked extensively at the history of "football business" in this market and decisions were made not to fall into the trappings of previous attempts. The correct naming and positioning of the Club was paramount and, IMO, they got it spot on.

The corporate tie-in with BMO (The Bank) was very significant, as was the deal with the City of Toronto to handle BMO Field's operations. This gave them control of the park, regardless of the event taking place, MLSE pulled the strings. They were very opportunistic in the creation of BMO Field and the bargain price of the MLS franchise which dovetailed perfectly.

Their early recognition that working with supporter's groups and allowing/using them to create an atmosphere and a cornerstone marketing feature was something foreign to Toronto sport. But their research months earlier had highlighted the benefits in footy culture and decided to "go with the flow" which was truly out of their comfort zone. I became involved with RPB a couple of weeks after the start of Season One and was shocked at our groups involvement with the Club and the FO.

The leverage and power MLSE have in this city is second-to-none and they used every bit of it with everyone from the City of Toronto, to suppliers and to the Media, who quite frankly couldn't have given a shit about soccer.

Due diligence is when "research and analysis is done in preparation of a business transaction" to minimize risk and create a platform for success. You feel TFC failed to do this, I respect your opinion. I think you're wrong.

You may also feel MLSE didn't do anything that any other corporation would have but they did. And with all of the above they positioned this franchise to do what MLSE does best…MAKE MONEY! That's all that matters to them…everything else is lip service.

What has happened since April of 2007 has been nothing short of a shit show. Any foundation MLSE has built has eroded, they are back to square one. On that, I feel confident we agree.

BeachTory
09-13-2012, 01:44 AM
Once again Beach you are rambling on about what has happened after the fact. My point was that MLSE built a solid foundation for success before a ball was kicked in the spring of '07.

I know two people within the MLSE organization who were aware of the opportunity to acquire an MLS team nearly two years beforehand. There was extensive research done on how to go about marketing the game here. They looked extensively at the history of "football business" in this market and decisions were made not to fall into the trappings of previous attempts. The correct naming and positioning of the Club was paramount and, IMO, they got it spot on.

The corporate tie-in with BMO (The Bank) was very significant, as was the deal with the City of Toronto to handle BMO Field's operations. This gave them control of the park, regardless of the event taking place, MLSE pulled the strings. They were very opportunistic in the creation of BMO Field and the bargain price of the MLS franchise which dovetailed perfectly.

Their early recognition that working with supporter's groups and allowing/using them to create an atmosphere and a cornerstone marketing feature was something foreign to Toronto sport. But their research months earlier had highlighted the benefits in footy culture and decided to "go with the flow" which was truly out of their comfort zone. I became involved with RPB a couple of weeks after the start of Season One and was shocked at our groups involvement with the Club and the FO.

The leverage and power MLSE have in this city is second-to-none and they used every bit of it with everyone from the City of Toronto, to suppliers and to the Media, who quite frankly couldn't have given a shit about soccer.

Due diligence is when "research and analysis is done in preparation of a business transaction" to minimize risk and create a platform for success. You feel TFC failed to do this, I respect your opinion. I think you're wrong.

You may also feel MLSE didn't do anything that any other corporation would have but they did. And with all of the above they positioned this franchise to do what MLSE does best…MAKE MONEY! That's all that matters to them…everything else is lip service.

What has happened since April of 2007 has been nothing short of a shit show. Any foundation MLSE has built has eroded, they are back to square one. On that, I feel confident we agree.

MLSE people travelled so much to the UK before they came to terms with MLS there were rumours that MLSE was to buy a middling UK team (not the Leeds rumours - those came after)
i dont have a copy of the one the reports any longer, but i recall MLSE were very interested in value proposition of having the one large name academy in a population base of 5-7m people that could generate 18 and 19 year olds on first pro contracts that would be re-sold to europe. The team would give you the academy which would be more profitable than the team long term. They saw this when they studied Reading (i think).

Can not think that locking up Morgan and Henry was done to allow TFC to loan them, trial them in Europe this winter with sale as a plan.
No long term contract that pins the 19 year old down, no approval for loans or trials. One sale like Morgan will put stars in the eyes of hopefuls GTA wide.

i will renew and hold my nose. But down to one seat from 4 - i could not give my tickets away last night. It was also my first missed game in a couple years. I just want to feel like i did on friday with the pride and hope every time.