Renewing or Not Renewing

[narduch]

Its a massive mistake to think you are going to open an Academy and make a lot of Edu type sales. Edu is a rare exception.

Guys like Morgan and Henry aren't going to be sold for Edu money.

We sold Edu in 2008. Its 4 years later. We'll be lucky if every 10 years we make a sale like that.

[denime]

You know what... I'm seriously considering supporting my local CSL (CPSL?) team. I'm done with my seasons tix after 6 years of this. Many of us will watch TFC games, I'm sure. But is it time to support another team altogether?

What was up in 112/113 tonight? No one showed up. Did I miss a protest or something?

No,no protest,apathy and lethargy is spreading fast around BMO.

If we are going to protest it wont be in stadium,it will be in front of the GATE 4 and pointed towards the retards in TFC FO.I really hope we will do something about it,but it's up to the group to decide,what and when if at all.

[London]

next years season ticket renewal will include gimp masks so we can be fully involved in the S&M TFC is serving us

[__wowza]

No,no protest,apathy and lethargy is spreading fast around BMO.

If we are going to protest it wont be in stadium,it will be in front of the GATE 4 and pointed towards the retards in TFC FO.I really hope we will do something about it,but it's up to the group to decide,what and when if at all.

i was embarrassed, actually embarrassed, last night to support this team.

all season i've taken advantage of free seats offered up by supporters to bring friends to games and i've done this in hopes that i can get a few more friends interested in the team. well last night i had a friend down who didn't want to sit in the supporters section because she didn't know the chants and wanted to sit (she works shift so she was standing all day). we ended up moving to the prawnies, and never got hassled by security for it.

at the half, she says shes bored and asks if i want to leave.
the only thing that stopped us from going was me saying i wanted to stay. not because we were playing particularly well, or because i was hoping we'd turn it around (i honestly thought we were going to lose by more), but because i felt bad leaving when someone else has offered up their ticket. she decided that it would be more entertaining to browse on her phone then watch the game, and i don't blame her. i wish i could, but i don't.


I will not leave my team or my seats, which at the end of the day will make it that much sweeter when this team turns the corner whenever that ends of being. I love my team and no matter what I can't walk out on them.

i agree with your sentiment, i really do, but in all honesty MLSE banks on people like this.
people who will always be there. people who will always support the team.

this isn't like other leagues that can swap out owners, or have teams with long storied histories. this is about our league, our history, and to be more specific, an unpleasant history. we know how this team was set up, we know the support they fell into, but as long as MLSE are able to find fans who are still willing to make them a profit, nothing is going to change. im not specifically blaming you, or people who do the same, but facts are facts. tickets sold equal bums in seats, and bums in seats equal revenue.



this house was built on a damaged foundation but, instead of repairing the foundation, they keep slapping a fresh coat of paint on it and hoping it'll sell.

[Beach_Red]

Once again Beach you are rambling on about what has happened after the fact. My point was that MLSE built a solid foundation for success before a ball was kicked in the spring of '07.

I know two people within the MLSE organization who were aware of the opportunity to acquire an MLS team nearly two years beforehand. There was extensive research done on how to go about marketing the game here. They looked extensively at the history of "football business" in this market and decisions were made not to fall into the trappings of previous attempts. The correct naming and positioning of the Club was paramount and, IMO, they got it spot on.

The corporate tie-in with BMO (The Bank) was very significant, as was the deal with the City of Toronto to handle BMO Field's operations. This gave them control of the park, regardless of the event taking place, MLSE pulled the strings. They were very opportunistic in the creation of BMO Field and the bargain price of the MLS franchise which dovetailed perfectly.

Their early recognition that working with supporter's groups and allowing/using them to create an atmosphere and a cornerstone marketing feature was something foreign to Toronto sport. But their research months earlier had highlighted the benefits in footy culture and decided to "go with the flow" which was truly out of their comfort zone. I became involved with RPB a couple of weeks after the start of Season One and was shocked at our groups involvement with the Club and the FO.

The leverage and power MLSE have in this city is second-to-none and they used every bit of it with everyone from the City of Toronto, to suppliers and to the Media, who quite frankly couldn't have given a shit about soccer.

Due diligence is when "research and analysis is done in preparation of a business transaction" to minimize risk and create a platform for success. You feel TFC failed to do this, I respect your opinion. I think you're wrong.

You may also feel MLSE didn't do anything that any other corporation would have but they did. And with all of the above they positioned this franchise to do what MLSE does best…MAKE MONEY! That's all that matters to them…everything else is lip service.

What has happened since April of 2007 has been nothing short of a shit show. Any foundation MLSE has built has eroded, they are back to square one. On that, I feel confident we agree.

Okay, I can see that. I just don't agree that a "solid foundation" was built because if it had been solid it wouldn't have crumbled so fast. But, sure, a "foundation" was started. They used their leverage with the local government, they signed a sponsorship agreement and they met with some supporters. It just doesn't seem like all that much of a foundation.

But maybe a thread on here about what was done right in the beginning would be a good thing, a little reminder of why people got involved in the first place.

[London]

someone posted this chant

We never win at home
and we never win away
We lost last week
and we lost today
We don't give a fuck
'Cos we're all pissed up
Toronto FC
OK


i know its all in fun but this chant represents the perfect season ticketholder to TFC FO

[TOBOR !]

Originally Posted by Section 117

I will not leave my team or my seats, which at the end of the day will make it that much sweeter when this team turns the corner whenever that ends of being. I love my team and no matter what I can't walk out on them.

This is Tom Anselmi logic.

Sports is cyclical. Sit in your seats long enough and you'll be watching a winner. Look at the LA Kings - they did it.

The fact of it all is that you can't compare TFC to the LA Kings because they aren't owned by MLSE.

This argument is only correct if you compare TFC to the Leafs or Raptors... and there, my friends, is where I rest my case.

[Section 117]

i agree with your sentiment, i really do, but in all honesty MLSE banks on people like this.
people who will always be there. people who will always support the team.

this isn't like other leagues that can swap out owners, or have teams with long storied histories. this is about our league, our history, and to be more specific, an unpleasant history. we know how this team was set up, we know the support they fell into, but as long as MLSE are able to find fans who are still willing to make them a profit, nothing is going to change. im not specifically blaming you, or people who do the same, but facts are facts. tickets sold equal bums in seats, and bums in seats equal revenue.



This is Tom Anselmi logic.

Sports is cyclical. Sit in your seats long enough and you'll be watching a winner. Look at the LA Kings - they did it.

The fact of it all is that you can't compare TFC to the LA Kings because they aren't owned by MLSE.

This argument is only correct if you compare TFC to the Leafs or Raptors... and there, my friends, is where I rest my case.

Even though I am renewing that does not mean I am satisfied with the product on the pitch. I will continually demand and expect things to be done to change the shit show that we have had over the last 6 years. That being said not everyone in the front office is useless I know many of them and they geniunely care about this team the problem they are not the people in charge....

Marinier needs to get the fuck out of this city and never come back he is a close second to Mo in how full shit and he is a useless piece of shit as a manager. They are both con men and uncle Tom got burned not once but twice. As sad as it sounds hopefully third time is a charm. I can't wait till the town hall I have some great questions to ask them. I will not let off the hook I expect answers and if I don't get them or they skirt around answering i will call them out.

[leafsman]

I voted wait and see but i think im 99% not renewing, games are like watching paint dry and the coach is a joke. I have no tactical knowledge of the game really but at least I would play guys in their correct positions. Why renew when you get no frills football at gourmet prices.

[Toronto_Bhoy]

But maybe a thread on here about what was done right in the beginning would be a good thing, a little reminder of why people got involved in the first place.

What great idea Beach_Red!

At the start, I was invited to an RPB Executive meeting by Canadian_Bhoy and Jack to help with the writing the group's mission statement. I didn't know many but I was so impressed! Meeting Parky, Nature Girl, Flush, Phil…really dedicated, enthusiastic people with only one thing in common…a desire to support a local team like never before. I remember asking them if they had thought to documented the birth of the group and how it would be great if we got the Club's side, what a great story!!!

MLSE is like a bad boyfriend. In your heart, you hope it'll be different this time but regardless of what they say or do, they're the same old douche bags. Only interest in getting into your…errrr…wallet.

I will never forgive them for allowing this whole thing slip away.

Fucking assholes.

[ryan]

I voted wait and see but i think im 99% not renewing, games are like watching paint dry and the coach is a joke. I have no tactical knowledge of the game really but at least I would play guys in their correct positions. Why renew when you get no frills football at gourmet prices.

Good banner idea for Saturday.


NO FRILLS PRICING

[ag futbol]

Okay, I can see that. I just don't agree that a "solid foundation" was built because if it had been solid it wouldn't have crumbled so fast. But, sure, a "foundation" was started. They used their leverage with the local government, they signed a sponsorship agreement and they met with some supporters. It just doesn't seem like all that much of a foundation.

But maybe a thread on here about what was done right in the beginning would be a good thing, a little reminder of why people got involved in the first place.
Exactly.

They got a couple of things bang-on. Namely, the stadium location and the marketing of the team. They basically revolutionized MLS with those... but outside of that, the way this franchise was constructed wasn't exactly conducive to long term thinking. The stadium was built on the cheap, the field surface was wrong, the capacity was wrong, the limited number of concessions and washrooms is bad. Probably a lot more stuff I am forgetting as well...

[jloome]

Exactly.

They got a couple of things bang-on. Namely, the stadium location and the marketing of the team. They basically revolutionized MLS with those... but outside of that, the way this franchise was constructed wasn't exactly conducive to long term thinking. The stadium was built on the cheap, the field surface was wrong, the capacity was wrong, the limited number of concessions and washrooms is bad. Probably a lot more stuff I am forgetting as well...

I've been trying to make the point on these boards for years now, without much success, that Canada is a football supporter bomb waiting to explode and take over the country. We just lack infrastructure.

That's all these ass clowns stumbled into. That's it, that's all. Give fans of the PROFESSIONAL game a half-decent stadium and the highest potential level of the local version and you will sell 10,000 season tickets in ANY city in this country.

Seriously. Our first year team was inept. The league hadn't figured out competitive roster rules yet. We didn't score a goal for the first four games.

AND NO ONE CARED. We were just happy to have what we all wanted, at least on the surface.

That's true ANYWHERE in Canada.

If you accept that proposition, and I obviously do, it stands to reason that the Golden Goose was the game and the level of professionalism it offered over what had come in the past. By logical extent, the guys at the head of it could've been firehydrants and we would've had the same damn result in terms of box office success.

But eventually, they have to provide a product, not just the promise of one to come. For the most part, that hasn't happened. TFC has been like buying a pass to a local art movie series, only to find six of the seven films on offer are Jim Varney Earnest flicks. You're not gonna keep making that mistake, even if you're in a town without no other film series on offer.

[zamperina]

Not only has TFC set the MLS record for missing the playoffs for 6 straight seasons it is also on pace to be actually worse than in its 1st season. Here are the stats. The would need 4 pts. in there next 2 games to equal the expansion season. This may just be the worst TFC has ever been.
Year Points 30 game season
2007 25pts.
2008 35pts.
2009 39pts.
2010 35pts.
2011 33pts. 34 game season
2012 21pts. 28 of 34 games so far

[v00d00daddy]

I've been trying to make the point on these boards for years now, without much success, that Canada is a football supporter bomb waiting to explode and take over the country. We just lack infrastructure.

That's all these ass clowns stumbled into. That's it, that's all. Give fans of the PROFESSIONAL game a half-decent stadium and the highest potential level of the local version and you will sell 10,000 season tickets in ANY city in this country.

Seriously. Our first year team was inept. The league hadn't figured out competitive roster rules yet. We didn't score a goal for the first four games.

AND NO ONE CARED. We were just happy to have what we all wanted, at least on the surface.

That's true ANYWHERE in Canada.

If you accept that proposition, and I obviously do, it stands to reason that the Golden Goose was the game and the level of professionalism it offered over what had come in the past. By logical extent, the guys at the head of it could've been firehydrants and we would've had the same damn result in terms of box office success.

But eventually, they have to provide a product, not just the promise of one to come. For the most part, that hasn't happened. TFC has been like buying a pass to a local art movie series, only to find six of the seven films on offer are Jim Varney Earnest flicks. You're not gonna keep making that mistake, even if you're in a town without no other film series on offer.


I agree somewhat. I just wonder if this would be true in all cities. I doubt very much that Montreal could withstand the type of first two years that TFC has had. Montreal wouldn't stand for it. Luckily for them they have an owner who won't stand for it either.

Here in Toronto they marketed the team very well because they know their audience very well. (or at least they researched it well). They gave us a team that reminded the plethora of ex pats in and around this city of the football clubs they grew up with. Unfortunately I think this was a mistake. And I think that's where we as a whole carry a small portion of the blame for the shit we've been force fed.

Montreal has also tried to cater to a large portion of the football followers in their area.

Difference is clear. Montreal doesn't sell out games. The fans there refuse to pony up until they see a true commitment from the club....not just a fancy crest and smokeshow ploys to pull on their heart strings. Product on the field is paramount. Should have been that way here from day one. Unfortunately TFC had so many people clamouring for pro footy in this city that they could do whatever they wanted and we'd eat it up.

I know I did. I wasn't concerend at first with the product. I knew it was going to suck. I knew that the team was going to play archaic, dead football. I knew that they'd value the "heart and soul" guys way more than any talented guys. (see Jim Brennan vs. Amado Guevara) I knew this cause it was written all over the team. TFC (the onfield product) was built just like any random football club in the GTA. Same mentality of staff and coaching.
Same value system.

But I wanted them nonetheless, because I had faith that they'd evolve.

6 years later and they're back to 2007. In fact, they're worse...because they're still playing the same style and the rest of the leauge (and world) have continued to move forward.

And yet...we still have supporters who overlook ghastly mistakes in favour of heart and soul effort.

For example: Eckersley numerous poorly timed attempts at tackles last night that turned already bad rushes into break aways or two on ones. He also marked poorly in the box on more than one occassion.

Yet...we still here loud cheers when he runs as hard as he can to save a ball from going into touch and giving up a throw in.

We still read supporters talking about him being man of the match.

I just don't get it.

We need an attitude adjustment. Our expectations of everyone at the club, from top to bottom, have to rise. Heart, sould, effort, "getting stuck in" are not nearly enough.

Do people really think that if Anselmi is ousted (and I'd love him to be fired) but Mariner remains we'd be a better team? There's no way.

[TOBOR !]

Here in Toronto they marketed the team very well because they know their audience very well.

Can anyone give me an example of this ?

[ensco]

Can anyone give me an example of this ?

The naming of the team (this wasn't trivial, they could easily have messed that up). The logo. The early engagement with supporters. The offer to SSHs to buy seats for $100 in the south end.

They got all that exactly right.

I wish we could be an expansion team again. I would gladly give up 100% of what we have for another expansion draft, with a new management team.

[TOBOR !]

The naming of the team (this wasn't trivial, they could easily have messed that up). The logo. The early engagement with supporters. The offer to SSHs to buy seats for $100 in the south end.

They got all that exactly right.

I wish we could be an expansion team again. I would gladly give up 100% of what we have for another expansion draft, with a new management team.

I believe they were targeting 'Inter Toronto'. Public feedback steered them away from that.

The logo ? Meh. I've grown accustomed to it, but they could have come up with anything, really.

They did have meet and greets with the fans down at the pub.

South End season seats were sold on the cheap, agreed, but that wasn't due to savvy marketing. That was in order to sell tickets. Had they known was about to happen those tickets would've cost more than double.

regarding the South End seating. It truly is a pity that we weren't in the same situation as Seattle or Vancouver. A loose group of 40 people asking for tickets in the same section is hardly the same thing as an established supporters group working with FO to claim an entire stand.

[TFC Cityboy]

someone posted this chant

We never win at home
and we never win away
We lost last week
and we lost today
We don't give a fuck
'Cos we're all pissed up
Toronto FC
OK


i know its all in fun but this chant represents the perfect season ticketholder to TFC FO

here's the tune...btw we've been singing this in 115 for much ofthe season but would love it if it took off in 112/113 - simply change MCFC to Toronto FC and it's perfect 9I should add that us Citeh fans sing it ironically now, but it sustained us during the bad times (80's,90,s,00s....)
:)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9odscgk88yA

[trane]

THis is SOOOOOOO true.

So fucking true.

So utterly, completely, undeniably true.

But I'll go you one further and make an appeal to those going out of love for team or atmosphere: you can get both somewhere else. Not the atmosphere so much, but the people who make up the atmosphere.

Having a good time is always -- ALWAYS, by way of human biochemistry -- grounded in our sense of security. That comes from the people with whom we interact. You can go to the game with same guys, and have a great time ... while being at a bar, watching it on a big screen.

A season of that, with even the most hardcore fans not showing, and we will either get change or a sale. People don't want a money loser. SO make them lose money.

People who go to preserve the culture and tradition are just slowing that change for two hours of biochemical bliss each week, most of which you get from the people, not the environment they're in.


That has been my point since the end of season four. People thought I was jumping off the bandwagon, I just realized that we need changed and that the only way to push for it, was with the $.

Agree with your second post as well. MLSE got the franchise at the right time, and started killing it almost from day one. There were some good moves, but they are way outnumbered by the poor ones.

[Belfast_Boy]

here's the tune...btw we've been singing this in 115 for much ofthe season but would love it if it took off in 112/113 - simply change MCFC to Toronto FC and it's perfect 9I should add that us Citeh fans sing it ironically now, but it sustained us during the bad times (80's,90,s,00s....)
:)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9odscgk88yA

we were singing it last night.... all 9 of us in 112. it was sooo frigging empty. i must say I think we sounded pretty good. too bad the only one that could hear us was the cop at the front of the section.

[CommradePolski]

You guys really seem to forget one thing.

The MAIN reason all the season tickets sold out in season 1 was because of David fucking Beckham.

People bought them because of him.

I got my season seats at least a month or 2 before that signing. Season 1 allocation for season seats was 14000. They had sold 4000 prior to beckhams signing and then the other 10k sold out the day after his signing was official.

A lot of people bought tickets because of that. Just because they wanted to see him. And they didnt get to see him til the all-star game in year 3 or 2, i forget which it was.

I dont have a point with this. I just wanted to point it out since I havent seen anyone else mention this fact.

[Primavera]

I have 2 pairs. Unless I can sell the second pair as an entire package BEFORE I have to put one cent down I will be releasing them.

[ensco]

the only one that could hear us was the cop at the front of the section.

Cops and security are having a ball right now. Half empty stadium, with the people who are there anesthetized by the losing. Collecting a salary for security at TFC games right now is like stealing.

[TOBOR !]

That has been my point since the end of season four

I think this was too early. It's hard to convince myself of that, knowing what I know now, but at the time I had more optimism.

[Oldtimer]

I have 2 pairs. Unless I can sell the second pair as an entire package BEFORE I have to put one cent down I will be releasing them.

You can actually phone the TFC office and have them cut one of the tickets. If you do it over the phone, you don't need to renew both.

[nascarguy]

And they have no stadium planned for all of 2013....ummmm..... there not getting any of my money in till the end of the 2015 season I need to walk around the new stadium before I thown my money away again like I did with TFC

[TOBOR !]

*bump*

So, anybody changed their minds ?

[Auzzy]

^ Still waiting for the official info...

[Alonso]

Still not renewing and convinced 4 others in my area and a friend with two tickets in 105 not to either.

I also had a rep who pulled me over in the concourse after the last game for a survey.

Gave it all poor marks across the board, he said I would get a phone call but I'm still waiting. Don't expect that I'll get one since I left a phone message with my rep, and an email without a response so far. They can't even be bothered to return my messages?!?

[AL-MO]

Was pretty sure that I wasn't renewing, but the news of them keeping Mariner and Cochrane is the nail in the coffin. I'm done.

[London]

Was pretty sure that I wasn't renewing, but the news of them keeping Mariner and Cochrane is the nail in the coffin. I'm done.


now that we know the brand of football that we will be seeing,

if they don't offer deeply discounted ticket package i will stay home next year.

It likely would have been a better idea to release this news after renewals as this will be the deciding factor on renewing or not for alot of people

[TOBOR !]

I think out of towners will be less inclined to go through game day aggro given what's going to be on the menu.

[London]

^^^ took me 4 hours last saturday instead of the regular 1 hour 45 mins it usually takes.

this happens 2-3 times a season due to accidents, traffic, closed roads, etc

[TOBOR !]

I stole this idea from Petor ; :

If you are not going to renew, as you leave the stadium after the last home game tag your own seat(s) as being available for relocation.

Add a note to the sheet if you wish, keep it clean, indicating that you aren't renewing your season seats for 2013 and maybe explain why.

Here's what these relocation events typically look like :

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-aGfEsUXtnPA/TsVivR41NcI/AAAAAAAAAVc/XaLnLNo9sJ8/s912/2011-11-17_14-25-53_741.jpg

I don't doubt that there'll be a lot more seats available this year !

Let's do this !

[TOBOR !]

Duh - Mods, please move this thread to public forum for maximum exposure - thanks.

[__wowza]

or we can just merge this with the protest thread already in process.

[TOBOR !]

whatever.. I guess... you're the mod.

[ryan]

im sure the cleaning staff will just take them post game.

[Gazza]

I stole this idea from @Petor (http://redpatchboys.ca/forums/member.php?u=12229) ; :

If you are not going to renew, as you leave the stadium after the last home game tag your own seat(s) as being available for relocation.

Add a note to the sheet if you wish, keep it clean, indicating that you aren't renewing your season seats for 2013 and maybe explain why.

Here's what these relocation events typically look like :

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-aGfEsUXtnPA/TsVivR41NcI/AAAAAAAAAVc/XaLnLNo9sJ8/s912/2011-11-17_14-25-53_741.jpg

I don't doubt that there'll be a lot more seats available this year !

Let's do this !

I can see my seats!! They will get to enjoy my warm ass two final times.

[__wowza]

whatever.. I guess... you're the mod.

these things are still being actively discussed by members/users, yourself included. i know you made the joke about moving it to the general forum to get more exposure, but that's really no different then bypassing a current discussion and posting your own thread for the very same reason.

[TOBOR !]

im sure the cleaning staff will just take them post game.

of course they will - eventually. They'll be seen, though. People will be curious about it.

It's another tool to use. Another tactic.

Flyers, paper bags, Quote two-sticks, clown wigs, empty seats... all these things combined will be just as effective as one coordinated movement because it drills the dissatisfaction down to an individual level.

It's not just one supporters group making a statement, it's everyone else as well. Doing their own thing.

Choose your method, choose your message.

[TOBOR !]

these things are still being actively discussed by members/users, yourself included. i know you made the joke about moving it to the general forum to get more exposure, but that's really no different then bypassing a current discussion and posting your own thread for the very same reason.

huh ? ... I wasn't joking, I wanted more eyes to see it.

No matter...:drinking:

[Platts]

I too will not forgive these b@stards for ruining the momentum and the buzz that we helped to create based on a quite incredible group of talented people's efforts and a pure joy for the sport.
I think Saturday was the final straw that broke the camel's back. The whole south stands were deserted. They finally cracked us as a group.

I have always treated the Leafs like it was just a TV show, but I was heavily invested into this club...and they have wrecked it, what's really telling ,and it is not just me, but people are just so damn exhausted that it is not even worth getting angry anymore.

my 2 cents (or in TFC lingo my 3DPs) worth
Platts

[trane]

Was pretty sure that I wasn't renewing, but the news of them keeping Mariner and Cochrane is the nail in the coffin. I'm done.

They cannot be serious. They cannot be serious about keeping Mariner and Cochrane. hahahahahahaha if this is true, this is really the worst FO in football ever. How can this be true, what is the justification?????

[C.Ronaldo]

would becks playing in TO save the team?

[Gazza]

They cannot be serious. They cannot be serious about keeping Mariner and Cochrane. hahahahahahaha if this is true, this is really the worst FO in football ever. How can this be true, what is the justification?????

I stay up at night wondering if they really are just joking. I mean, that would be an epic joke or piss take for sure. If they came out and said, "after all these years, sorry toronto fans, we were just fucking with you." I would laugh and say "ya got me!"

But no, every step this FO takes is done with a purpose. Not exactly sold on what that purpose is though.

[tfcleeds]

^No, but apparently there is a statue of Goldenballs at H&M at the Eaton Centre this week. Surprised I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere on these boards. (in response to C. Ronaldos post)

[Gazza]

^No, but apparently there is a statue of Goldenballs at H&M at the Eaton Centre this week. Surprised I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere on these boards. (in response to C. Ronaldos post)

Is he holding a half-empty can of Keith's?

[tfcleeds]

^Haha, you've just given me an idea.

[sully]

You guys really seem to forget one thing.

The MAIN reason all the season tickets sold out in season 1 was because of David fucking Beckham.

People bought them because of him.



I don't agree. I think there is a genuine interest for football in the city and MLSE tapped into this. In any case, Beckham wasn't in the league then.

[Belfast_Boy]

I'm with you Brian. the popularity of football in Toronto had little or nothing to do with Becks. we had real support that is beating beaten to death by the organization.

[tfcleeds]

There was already a groundswell of support for this team before Beckham joined LA. Yes, seasons tix sold increased after his announcement, but those were more casual/corporate seats.

[brad]

There was already a groundswell of support for this team before Beckham joined LA. Yes, seasons tix sold increased after his announcement, but those were more casual/corporate seats.

These people would have come anyway, regardless of Becks. The atmosphere was the draw then, most people had never experienced anything like that, and it was that atmosphere that got them in. They might not have been there for the first few matches - but any seasons left would have been snapped up shortly after. Those that were there in year one creating the atompshere were most likely not there due to Becks.

You could also construct a pretty easy argument that things might have worked out even better without Becks signing. I can't help but wonder how many seasons were snapped up by scalpers due to Becks. Pretty easy money for them when they could by a supporters end seat, recoup the whole cost from a single game, and still have the rest of the season to sell. I bet there were a lot.

[brad]

I will say though - the hype around Becks did start the fear of scarcity.

I bought my seasons after he signed. I had always planned on buying them (I put my initial deposit down but never bought at that time). My plan was to wait until I could see the stadium first hand and decide where I wanted to sit (I never planned on the supporters end as I hate watching football from behind the goal. I wanted to see how much better some of the more expensive seats were over the light grey's on the side to see if it was worth it or not) Once Becks signed though and tickets started selling, I figured I'd better act as I didn't want to get left with the expensive seats as my only option.

I know several others that were in the same boat and did the same.

[Whoop]

Same boat as Brad.

I was debating between 112 and 113, by the time I decided mainly due to some cash situations at the time, I was too late had to settle for some more expensive seats though a) I was able to get into 112/113 in the first season by trading, swapping seats and b) eventually moving my seasons into the south end.

Beckham had no bearing on my decision.

[Pookie]

There was already a groundswell of support for this team before Beckham joined LA. Yes, seasons tix sold increased after his announcement, but those were more casual/corporate seats.

Well, it looks like Beckham was responsible for upwards of 7,000 season tickets sold in Toronto. This is an excerpt from an article in 2007 on the issue: http://www.cbc.ca/sports/soccer/story/2007/01/11/mls-galaxy-beckham.html

Impact felt in Toronto
The ripple effect of Beckham's signing was quickly felt north of the border, where Toronto FC reported 500 calls and 100 ticket sales Thursday morning alone.
And seven TV cameras were on hand to record Toronto FC's reaction to the Beckham deal.
"It's terrific for the league, it's terrific for us. The phones have already been ringing off the hook," Tom Anselmi, chief operating officer of Maple Leaf Sports & Entertainment, told reporters.
The expansion team already has a solid start to its ticket campaign, with about 7,000 season tickets sold.


That said, all we have is a timeline that looks like this:

Pre-Beckham - 7,000 seats
Event: Beckham signs
Post-Signgin - 7,000 more seats.

Maybe some of those 7,000 would have bought with or without Beckham but it is clear he had an influence.

[Suds]

Who cares if Beckham was or was not the reason.

The fact still remains this team had complete sell outs of games and season seats and now thousands are walking away. That's the issue. They were gifted a fanbase and have dropped the ball in the worst way possible.

[ag futbol]

Maybe some of those 7,000 would have bought with or without Beckham but it is clear he had an influence.

I don't think anyone would argue the David Beckham signing didn't give this team a huge push at the start. That being said, once we had the spotlight, was the attention on David Beckham or TFC? Did it really matter what got people's attention now that we had it?

Beckham didn't even play in the first scheduled LA game, even though that's what it was billed as. While there were a small number upset fans, I don't think most people cared at that point, it was all about the atmosphere down at BMO and people were hopeful in expecting a decent team down the road. That's a totally different outcome than what happened in other cities where Beckham was marketed. FCD played LA and lost 6-5, it was some of the most entertaining soccer I'd ever seen. The crowd booed at the end of the game because Beckham was out injured and didn't play.

All this will go down in the history of the development of the game in North America. Some of it may be hokey, but it's long lasting. Beckham may have lit the fuse to ignite the market but the conditions were there and the timing was right. Anyways, point being this has all happened now and it's not like things are moving backwards for MLS. And even in Toronto the market for football continues to move forward, even if TFC is stuck in reverse.

[TOBOR !]

I could see people paying more attention to the league because of Beckham, or taking in LA games because of his presence... but to purchase season tickets to see him face your home team once ?

Madness.

[narduch]

I remember TFC reporting a number of 7900 season tickets prior to the Beckham announcement.

The thing is, I think that if I ever stop renewing, I will probably never become a season ticket holder again. I've already grown used to only attending 4-5 home games a season now. I think that may become the new normal for me. That thought would have been insane in 2007.

I was always a big Jays and Leafs fan. I like the Raptors too. I was never a season ticket holder of any of those teams. But I do enjoy watching live sports. TFC was a novelty because it appeared to be affordable. But maybe it was a little insane to be attending about 20 games for one team.

The recent news about the management at TFC will make it easy for me to leave. Probably only 2007 pricing will bring me back, as long as there are no strings attached.

[ensco]

I could see people paying more attention to the league because of Beckham, or taking in LA games because of his presence... but to purchase season tickets to see him face your home team once ?

Madness.

That's not why his signing drove SSH sales. Beckham was validation, was cool. So corporate coolseeker types piled in, and brought some fencesitters along, who thought they might never get tickets.

This is the hand the FO was dealt. Did Beirne et al count their lucky stars, and worry about how to keep these obviously less sticky SSHs? Uh are you kidding?

They created the essentially nonexistent waiting list (given their general practices re attendance, they probably overtstated the numbers in this from the beginning, and it was by definition mostly composed of people who mostly were also cool seekers), did ransom packs to soak whatever hardcores were on that list, cranked pricing for everyone else, and loudly preened about how smart they were. How they must have laughed behind closed doors.

Meanwhile the coolseekers move on. This is what they're into this year, expensive tickets to see big name speakers at for profit book clubs, this outfit started in Toronto this year:
http://www.vancouversun.com/business/Booking+business+helps+Leah+Costello+turn+words+in to+cash/6636206/story.html

Believe me, every last person in the FO thinks that if the team didn't suck so badly, this would all be fine. They really have no idea why people are leaving and not coming back.

[brad]

^^I suspect the coolseekers would have moved on regardless, as that is the nature. But that said, I know a lot of people giving up seasons and all those folks are real, genuine fans of the game that are giving up on the fact that the team is terrible and doing nothing to improve. It's being sick of the mismanagement and constant player turnover. That's another other major complaint I hear - it's impossible to build any sort of emotional attachment to the team and the players because they change everyone out so often.

I actually don't hear complaints about pricing from any other quarters than here. But most people I'm talking to are professionals with a good disposable income, and not in the most expensive seats.

That is a huge problem - when you have people that love the game and just want to watch a decent game of football on the weekend walking away.

[ensco]

it's impossible to build any sort of emotional attachment to the team and the players because they change everyone out so often.



I hear this too.

[Auzzy]

Just got the info announcing the announce date of the info. Or something like that.

2013 season ticket renewal info will be out in the last few weeks of October. Perhaps they're hoping for a few more wins by then.

:noidea:

[trane]

^ I say this every season, for the most part my attachment to this team is for two reasons; 1) I love football. 2) I love this city. The team has done very little else to attach me to this team. Yes, some players I have grown to admire Danny Dichio, being first and foremost, but for the most part, again as I say over and over again, give me another football team in this city, and I will be more then happy to support it. TFC on its own has not given me many reasons to be loyal. At one point I was loyal because I was RPB, but then many in the RPB left, so that changed as well.

[sully]

2013 season ticket renewal info will be out in the last few weeks of October. Perhaps they're hoping for a few more wins by then.

:noidea:

or they don't want to give us the info until after the season ends so nothing will happen in the stands (ie if anyone shows up)

[craz11]

Probably only 2007 pricing will bring me back, as long as there are no strings attached.

I'm of the same mindset. As I highly doubt that will happen, I voted NO in the poll.

edit: let me rephrase that. IF TFC fires Mariner AND hires a replacement that I am confident can actually do a good job, I may actually renew.

But I highly doubt that will happen either, so I still vote NO in the poll.

[Suds]

We have received some questions from Season Seat Holders asking when they will hear about 2013 Season Seats Renewals. We are in the process of finalizing the 2013 Season Ticket Package and putting the finishing touches on the renewal website.

You should expect to receive your 2013 Renewal details in the last two weeks of October. In the meantime, if you have any questions, please don't hesitate to contact your Toronto FC Service Representative at 416-360-GOAL (4625).

Annoucement just sent.

[TOBOR !]

I'm of the same mindset. As I highly doubt that will happen, I voted NO in the poll.

edit: let me rephrase that. IF TFC fires Mariner and Cochrane AND hires a President of soccer operations that I am confident can actually do a good job, I may actually renew.

But I highly doubt that will happen either, so I still vote NO in the poll.

Fixed your post

[ensco]

* slaps head *

(if someone already pointed this out somewhere, sorry ....)

The Mastercard free jersey promotion is not quite what it seems.

Originally I thought, if you're renewing anyway, why not sign up it? And if you are not, why bother? So far as it goes, it's simple.

But the wily genius of the thing is that it is a way in aggregate to test for, and incent, likelihood to renew, without revealing anything about price.

The more people take the card, the higher prices will be next year!

[gomesv]

* slaps head *

(if someone already pointed this out somewhere, sorry ....)

The Mastercard free jersey promotion is not quite what it seems.

Originally I thought, if you're renewing anyway, why not sign up it? And if you are not, why bother? So far as it goes, it's simple.

But the wily genius of the thing is that it is a way in aggregate to test for, and incent, likelihood to renew, without revealing anything about price.

The more people take the card, the higher prices will be next year!



I thought this was there way to gauge interest from the start... I thought everyone suspected this also, it being MLSE and all..... I applied for the card yet have no interest in renewing....just to hopefully screw with them a little bit.

[narduch]

I applied for the card too, just in case I decided to renew. Was planning to put it in my pile of other useless credit cards (Ikea, HBC, Best Buy, etc.). I kind of regret that now if it helps keep prices high.

I'm not sure what to think of this delay.

My one conspiracy theory is that they are actually searching for a new management team and would like to have it in place before they send out the renewal notices. The kind of team that would restore hope. This weeks announcement on CSN about Mariner + Cochrane was a smokescreen, much like the Cochrane + Dasovic rumour weeks before Winter was hired. Of course I think this is too optimistic.

[gomesv]

who really cares any more.... I really hope they shit the bed and get the new renewal pricing all wrong so that thousands give up on these assholes.....its the only way they will learn and even then I doubt it.... so go ahead give us the drunk coach and Cock*** and please by all means hold the line on pricing for three years (woohoo) and throw in a free hot dog....with that line up i will even pay for Marlie tickets again......FU TFC FO......rant over cont proper disc.....

[tfcleeds]

I will be supporting local football next season (in terms of attending in person), but the way things stand now, it will be the Lynx.

[Fort York Redcoat]

I will be supporting local football next season (in terms of attending in person), but the way things stand now, it will be the Lynx.

Yeesh...Mississauga is far.

[London]

so ticket info to be released the last 2 weeks of october????

WTF you cock sucking leaches, you should put your reps on a shorter leash as they were telling people that info was coming out 2 weeks ago.

another clusterfuck TFC FO, just add it to the pile of other fuck ups

[Nuvinho]

They will release it the last 2 weeks in October, and make you have to commit by November 15th. Also by having it done so late, they will probably take away the 5 payment (20% a month) and go back to the old way (4 payments - 25%).

[Technorgasm]

I dont go to BMO for the flops on the pitch.
I go for the lads in the stands.
I relate TFC to STEVENAGE FC, my uncle lives on the same street as the ground.
DECADES of mis-management went on, the most ridiculous bullshit you can think of, and just now they are on the ascendancy.

We are what 6 years old franchise? Yes there are problems, HUGE ones, and we as fans have been mistreated, but think of the abuse some SUPPORTERS have taken over 5, 10, 15, 20 year periods. . . . . we got it easy. Will we ever get back to the experience we helped create in 2008? prob not, but the minging and whining will increase, I have no doubt of that. adn that sucks, it made it more fun to go.

So see you wonderful people in the stands next year 100%.
deserve it or not, TFC will see the FULL FUCKING NORB in the stands for years and years to come.

[narduch]

so ticket info to be released the last 2 weeks of october????

WTF you cock sucking leaches, you should put your reps on a shorter leash as they were telling people that info was coming out 2 weeks ago.

another clusterfuck TFC FO, just add it to the pile of other fuck ups

Even the email from the club, signed by Paul Beirne, shilling for Mastercards, stated that the renewal notices would be out at the end of September.

The delay is really intriguing though. You figure with demand as low as it is, they would want as much time as possible to sell season tickets.

[ensco]

^methinks maybe their Mastercard come on laid an egg

[narduch]

^methinks maybe their Mastercard come on laid an egg

For sure it did. People tend not to add extra credit cards unless they really have to.

If apathy is really as low as the attendance numbers show, a free jersey isn't going to change your mind. The free jersey is a cookie for the few people that haven't given up on this team.

There are lots of people that have credit cards with better points programs that probably just laugh at this promotion.

Plus some fans probably don't even pay attention to the club emails anymore. So sending the news out by email was probably a failure as well.

[London]

they should be like some other clubs who offer payments over a whole season

here are the other clubs

chicago is offering supporter seats for $200 if you buy in before nov 1st

chivas $135 ( and a whole lot of extras)

colorado not released yet (2012 price $238)

columbus $306

DC $378 ( people buy endline and sit sideline)

Dallas $236

houston ( not released yet) (2012 price $250)

LA $400

montreal $295

NE $243

NYRB $320

Phily $324

Portland (i couldn't find)

RSL (i couldnt find)

san jose $280

Seatle ( couldnt find)

SKC $260 (2012 price)

TFC Who the fuck knows

vancity $395

[Joe Kool]

TFC Who the fuck knows



During the renewal period last year there was a 2013 TFC season ticket price of $427 (or thereabouts) on the sheet of paper that was on the seat in the supporter end. I am assuming they may be re-thinking that?...or maybe not. Guess we will see.

[London]

^^^ so supporter tickets for TFC will be the highest in the league ( barring the other teams who have not released raising the prices alot)


in terms of results, TFC should be charging Chivas prices but we all know TFC thinks they are LA

[ryan]

They shouldn't charge for the results, it's just not right. I'm not paying out the ass if this club lucks into a winning season.

They should charge for the quality of their product. Their product is the TFC ORGANIZATION. Not just the players and the results, but the management, the offerings, the stadium, etc.


The entire offering, is not worth what they charge, IMO.

[Oldtimer]

During the renewal period last year there was a 2013 TFC season ticket price of $427 (or thereabouts) on the sheet of paper that was on the seat in the supporter end. I am assuming they may be re-thinking that?...or maybe not. Guess we will see.

That may have been a preliminary idea, but given that they are waiting until the end of October, they probably haven't finalized their approach. I'm sure the price cuts in Montreal and Vancouver, as well as the empty stadium will factor into their thinking.

[nfitz]

WTF you cock sucking leaches, you should put your reps on a shorter leash as they were telling people that info was coming out 2 weeks ago.

another clusterfuck TFC FO, just add it to the pile of other fuck ups2 weeks ago, Paul Beirne himself was tweeting that it would "another monthish".

[narduch]

2 weeks ago, Paul Beirne himself was tweeting that it would "another monthish".

On September 6, on an email signed by Beirne:

"In the next few weeks we will be communicating the 2013 renewal process; in advance of that BMO would like to give all Toronto FC Season Seat Holders a very special offer."

Exactly 2 weeks later, the club sends out an email saying it has been delayed one month.

[cmonyoureds]

That may have been a preliminary idea, but given that they are waiting until the end of October, they probably haven't finalized their approach. I'm sure the price cuts in Montreal and Vancouver, as well as the empty stadium will factor into their thinking.


I think their finalized approach is:

"Dear God please let us put together a victory or two so we can send out these details"

[ag futbol]

Think they are looking for one positive result or two before they release the details. They would be absolutely panned if they sent out renewal notices right now.

But then again, maybe they are positioning themselves to clean house if things continue downhill. They have to sell us some kind of story for next year. "Hey, come watch the new management team that is just as futile as the guy we just fired" isn't exactly a great selling point.

[nfitz]

On September 6, on an email signed by Beirne:

"In the next few weeks we will be communicating the 2013 renewal process; in advance of that BMO would like to give all Toronto FC Season Seat Holders a very special offer."

Exactly 2 weeks later, the club sends out an email saying it has been delayed one month.I've seen no e-mail saying there is a one-month delay. The I got simply said it would be out during the last two weeks of October. It neither mentioned a delay, or a month. If they came out the 4th week of October, that would be a few weeks since the September 6th e-mail. What's a few? At least 3. Probably less than 10. When you say that somebody has "had a few" (drinks), your normally talking a half-dozen or so ...

He clearly said on September 10th that it was another monthish and there was no clear date set. If the complaints to the club are surrounding the definition of "a few" then I guess the club must be doing well that there's nothing serious to complain about. It's good to see everyone so eager about renewals! :)

[narduch]

I've seen no e-mail saying there is a one-month delay. The I got simply said it would be out during the last two weeks of October. It neither mentioned a delay, or a month. If they came out the 4th week of October, that would be a few weeks since the September 6th e-mail. What's a few? At least 3. Probably less than 10. When you say that somebody has "had a few" (drinks), your normally talking a half-dozen or so ...

He clearly said on September 10th that it was another monthish. If the complaints to the club are surrounding the definition of "a few" then I guess the club must be doing well that there's nothing serious to complain about. It's good to see everyone so eager about renewals! :)

LOL.

Can I get a job working for you?

Only the most ardent apologist can turn a few weeks from Sep. 6 into the end of October.

A few is 2-3. Do we really need to define another word for you? Or is that just hearsay?

[Whoop]

The best part is the further they delay the further it creeps into holiday season during which payment is required.

So do you buy Christmas presents or your season tickets if you're on a limited budget?

[ryan]

LOL.

Can I get a job working for you?

Only the most ardent apologist can turn a few weeks from Sep. 6 into the end of October.

A few is 2-3. Do we really need to define another word for you? Or is that just hearsay?



The British dictionary defines...


Oh I just can't even bother to finish this joke. ugh.

[narduch]

That's not why his signing drove SSH sales. Beckham was validation, was cool. So corporate coolseeker types piled in, and brought some fencesitters along, who thought they might never get tickets.

The coolseekers all left for the Jays. Although with the Escobar fiasco and the mid season tank, they are starting to show cracks in that. Jays fans are starting to get impatient.

[ryan]

The coolseekers all left for the Jays. Although with the Escobar fiasco and the mid season tank, they are starting to show cracks in that. Jays fans are starting to get impatient.

Starting to?

The "crack" became a solid break once the term "payroll parameter" started being thrown around by AA. Look up the the SSH pre-season discussion from a couple years ago.

"We can spend 120M on a roster!"

lol.

They Jays won't crack 100M anytime soon and attendance will waver next year without something of substance done in the offseason. As put in the TSN article today "Worst Jays Season, EVER" Nothing cool about this situation.

[Canary_canuck]

^^I suspect the coolseekers would have moved on regardless, as that is the nature. But that said, I know a lot of people giving up seasons and all those folks are real, genuine fans of the game that are giving up on the fact that the team is terrible and doing nothing to improve. It's being sick of the mismanagement and constant player turnover. That's another other major complaint I hear - it's impossible to build any sort of emotional attachment to the team and the players because they change everyone out so often.

I actually don't hear complaints about pricing from any other quarters than here. But most people I'm talking to are professionals with a good disposable income, and not in the most expensive seats.

That is a huge problem - when you have people that love the game and just want to watch a decent game of football on the weekend walking away.

That is me and my son Brad. I love soccer and have followed it for over 50 years, in the UK and here. Two years ago we bailed, offended by the FO's attitude of " if you don't like it, you can be replaced ". The rotation was also a big issue with players like Carl Robinson, Jim Brennan, de Rosario etc moving on and good coaches like Cummins. It is hard to bond with a team you don't know and a club which seems so greedy. What a shame...I still support TFC but from a safe distance.

[craz11]

Think they are looking for one positive result or two before they release the details. They would be absolutely panned if they sent out renewal notices right now.

What exactly would they be hoping to gain from a positive result?

Next week we are either "Winless in 10" or we will have JUST GOTTEN OUT OF A "9-game winless streak"

And even if we win all of our remaining matches (which won't happen) we'll still probably be the last place team in MLS.

[nfitz]

We might be reading way too much into the schedule.

Presumably if they are going to do something out of the ordinary they would need approval from the MLSE board.

Anyone know the schedule of the MLSE board? This is what governed the timing of Winter's removal.

[Dave67]

I had seasons for the first 5 years, dropped them this year. I contacted the club almost 2 weeks ago to see about going on the 'list' for next year (mainly I want to go and see what's available). No one ever got in touch with me. Odd front office this team has.

[123 elite]

That is me and my son Brad. I love soccer and have followed it for over 50 years, in the UK and here. Two years ago we bailed, offended by the FO's attitude of " if you don't like it, you can be replaced ". The rotation was also a big issue with players like Carl Robinson, Jim Brennan, de Rosario etc moving on and good coaches like Cummins. It is hard to bond with a team you don't know and a club which seems so greedy. What a shame...I still support TFC but from a safe distance.

:hump:

[123 elite]

I had seasons for the first 5 years, dropped them this year. I contacted the club almost 2 weeks ago to see about going on the 'list' for next year (mainly I want to go and see what's available). No one ever got in touch with me. Odd front office this team has.

I still get regular emails from the Crew front office from the game in Columbus 3 (? is it that long) years ago based on me buying away tickets through them

[supersaint]

As you continue to wear your rose coloured glasses or maybe fiddle while Rome burns I would like to remind you that there is a serious problem this year. I am a ssh since day one I love the game, but this is it for me. It is not money, it is the terribly boring football that your man Mariner has the team playing. A lot of people have just had enough, and attendance is going to be a real issue next year, even as you insist all is well. I just laugh when I read your tripe about Mariners ability as a manager, his player selection, and his tactical ability. You must have supported some really shite teams in your day. You know what, a problem can never be remedied until you first of all acknowledge there is a problem. And trust me Mariner and the Front Office are killing off the game in this city. Within a couple of years this team is going to have no relevance in the media or to the average Torontonian. So please try and dig your head out of the sand!!! Cos if a lover of the game like me is packing it in, then I am sure a lot of others are too!!! Maybe you, Mariner, Anselmi, and Cochrane can all sit around the campfire singing Everything is Beautiful!!!

[Nestease]

Maybe the NHL lockout is delaying MLSE's announcement on ticket prices. I'd imagine they are waiting to see what happens there. If there's no hockey, I don't see how this company can stand it's ground on these prices and afford to have a half full stadium. If the hockey season continues, i'd expect to see the same old prices.

[Alonso]

Maybe the NHL lockout is delaying MLSE's announcement on ticket prices. I'd imagine they are waiting to see what happens there. If there's no hockey, I don't see how this company can stand it's ground on these prices and afford to have a half full stadium. If the hockey season continues, i'd expect to see the same old prices.


This makes a lot of sense.

I could see this as being a huge factor as well.

Perhaps as SSH keeping this in mind could provide us all with more leverage than we might have originally thought.

[Ajax TFC]

I hope Mariner starts calling the people who don't renew so they can give him a piece of their minds

[Auzzy]

I hope Mariner starts calling the people who don't renew so they can give him a piece of their minds

Ha! He would start swearing after the first negative word is said, and scream through the phone "Well if that's what you think, I'm going to force you to watch the worst team in the league!"

[brad]

I told them I wasn't renewing by responding to the renewals email. Got a call from a ticket rep promptly - asked lots of pretty targeted questions like "Do you think Mariner should be replaced", asked me what players I like, that sort of thing.

[flatpicker]

I told them I wasn't renewing by responding to the renewals email. Got a call from a ticket rep promptly - asked lots of pretty targeted questions like "Do you think Mariner should be replaced", asked me what players I like, that sort of thing.

I wonder if the answers from those questions are collected, reviewed, and affect team operations in any way. It's almost like those clubs (ie. Seattle) that actually give STH's a vote on management. No doubt the club has received a lot of heated feedback from fans. I certainly hope they do their best to make amends for the crap we've had to go through since Day One.

[ensco]

Maybe the NHL lockout is delaying MLSE's announcement on ticket prices. I'd imagine they are waiting to see what happens there. If there's no hockey, I don't see how this company can stand it's ground on these prices and afford to have a half full stadium. If the hockey season continues, i'd expect to see the same old prices.

TFC revenue isn't even the gnat on the elephants ass, compared to the Leafs revenue.

No, the issue is, imho, that the MLSE CEO thing hasn't played out, and Anselmi is trying to figure out desparately how to keep the TFC balloon inflated for one more year. A big drop in prices or SSH count will cause the new landlords to start asking questions he doesn't want to answer. (Face it, how many people know or care about TFC? Right now it's just a line item.)

The other reason could be a big name is coming in (Klinsy Part Deux) to pump people up. Seems unlikely, though.

[TFC John]

I told them I wasn't renewing by responding to the renewals email. Got a call from a ticket rep promptly - asked lots of pretty targeted questions like "Do you think Mariner should be replaced", asked me what players I like, that sort of thing.

Holy shit! Are they so clueless that they are asking random people (sorry Brad - no offense) how to run the team? No wonder they can't win a game or attract real talent.

[Pookie]

^ don't worry brad, I value your opinion

Way to go TFCJohn, now he might get a complex

[Yeoman]

http://imageshack.us/a/img138/4952/blamecanada.jpg

[brad]

I wonder if the answers from those questions are collected, reviewed, and affect team operations in any way. It's almost like those clubs (ie. Seattle) that actually give STH's a vote on management. No doubt the club has received a lot of heated feedback from fans. I certainly hope they do their best to make amends for the crap we've had to go through since Day One.


Holy shit! Are they so clueless that they are asking random people (sorry Brad - no offense) how to run the team? No wonder they can't win a game or attract real talent.

She said she was collecting feedback to pass to upper management. It was definatley a preset list of questions.

Honestly, I think they are collecting info from folks that are not renewing, and will act based on what people have told them they want, as opposed to acting on what is actually needed in an attempt to retain STH's.

Same old, same old....

[Auzzy]

She said she was collecting feedback to pass to upper management. It was definatley a preset list of questions.

Honestly, I think they are collecting info from folks that are not renewing, and will act based on what people have told them they want, as opposed to acting on what is actually needed in an attempt to retain STH's.

Same old, same old....

They probably figure, asking random disgruntled folks is cheaper than hiring another con$ultant.

I didn't even complete the survey a few weeks ago. I thought about it, but couldn't be arsed. I really don't want to talk to some hapless ticket sales rep. I can't even imagine going to a town hall, although I doubt they're holding them this year anyway. Most of all, I don't want to be promised anything, I don't even want to think about getting my hopes up, it would just make me sick.

[KGH]

They probably figure, asking random disgruntled folks is cheaper than hiring another con$ultant.

I didn't even complete the survey a few weeks ago. I thought about it, but couldn't be arsed. I really don't want to talk to some hapless ticket sales rep. I can't even imagine going to a town hall, although I doubt they're holding them this year anyway. Most of all, I don't want to be promised anything, I don't even want to think about getting my hopes up, it would just make me sick.

At least you got one. I've been a ssh for 2 years and a ransom pack holder before that. Guess my opinion doesn't count.

[brad]

At least you got one. I've been a ssh for 2 years and a ransom pack holder before that. Guess my opinion doesn't count.

I think they sent the survey's out randomly. I've been a SSH since the beginning and I didn't get one this year. It wasn't until I said I wasn't renewing that I got the call.

[ensco]

Anybody else get this call/email? I got this today ....

As a follow up to my voicemail, I wanted to let you know that I will be managing your season seat account going forward. I would like to take a few minutes to introduce myself and clear up some of the account details when you are available. Let me know when would be a better time to speak and I will give you a call.

[SamK]

^ I also got the call/survey today.

[Red CB Toronto]

Anybody else get this call/email? I got this today ....

As a follow up to my voicemail, I wanted to let you know that I will be managing your season seat account going forward. I would like to take a few minutes to introduce myself and clear up some of the account details when you are available. Let me know when would be a better time to speak and I will give you a call.

It looks like their has been a turnover in terms of account reps. It looks to me like they know there will be some work in moving tickets in 2013 as it appears to me they have loaded up on sales people.

http://www.torontofc.ca/team-staff

[jloome]

It looks like their has been a turnover in terms of account reps. It looks to me like they know there will be some work in moving tickets in 2013 as it appears to me they have loaded up on sales people.

http://www.torontofc.ca/team-staff

Well, I notice their manager of public relations is a kid five years out of Loyola's PR program with amateur hockey experience and bugger all else:
Manager, Public Relations & Ticket SalesMississauga St. Michael's Majors
September 2008 – December 2010 (2 years 4 months)


PR InternMississauga IceDogs
:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm: :facepalm:

[Parkdale]

It looks like their has been a turnover in terms of account reps. It looks to me like they know there will be some work in moving tickets in 2013 as it appears to me they have loaded up on sales people.

http://www.torontofc.ca/team-staff


I blame it all on that crooked accountant.


actually no, their accounting seems to be doing just fine.

[narduch]

Well, I notice their manager of public relations is a kid five years out of Loyola's PR program with amateur hockey experience and bugger all else:
Manager, Public Relations & Ticket Sales

Mississauga St. Michael's Majors


September 2008 – December 2010 (2 years 4 months)


PR Intern

Mississauga IceDogs


:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm: :facepalm:



You are giving this guy way too much credit. He is a graduate of Loyalist College (out of Belleville, ON), not Loyola (the American University based out of Chicago).

[TFC John]

Call me a merchandise whore but I just activated my new TFC BMO Mastercard in case I decide to renew. If a free jersey is all they're offering it will be a tough decision.

[glaze]

Call me a merchandise whore but I just activated my new TFC BMO Mastercard in case I decide to renew. If a free jersey is all they're offering it will be a tough decision.

As others have mentioned, I don't trust them on giving an actual official 120 dollar value addidas jersey as advertised. I imagine it will be some cheap knock off. Which actually will have its use next year. If they extend Mariner, we'll all have some cheapa-s jerseys to toss on the field if they miss the playoffs again.

I think any of us in the cheap seats are being delusional to think that ML$E cares if we renew or not. They know they can always find a buyer for the lowest price level. The issue for them is the premium seats and the suites.

[brad]

As others have mentioned, I don't trust them on giving an actual official 120 dollar value addidas jersey as advertised. I imagine it will be some cheap knock off. Which actually will have its use next year. If they extend Mariner, we'll all have some cheapa-s jerseys to toss on the field if they miss the playoffs again.

I'd be surprised if it was anything else. Their actual cost on these will be quite low. Also, don't forget the main driver of credit card carrots is to get you to sign up for the card and hopefully start using it, not paying it off in full and paying interest to the bank. The cost of said jersey is trivial compared to potential profits from this.

Was it ever established of MLSE or BMO are actually paying for the jerseys?


I think any of us in the cheap seats are being delusional to think that ML$E cares if we renew or not. They know they can always find a buyer for the lowest price level. The issue for them is the premium seats and the suites.

Indirectly, I think they do care. People moving out of the cheap seats open up an avenue for those in the more expensive seats to move into during relocation (although I suspect they might make this more difficult to do if overall numbers are down - I don't see them giving an open path for those in the higher end seats into the lower end ones in this scenario).

[narduch]

People moving out of the cheap seats open up an avenue for those in the more expensive seats to move into during relocation (although I suspect they might make this more difficult to do if overall numbers are down - I don't see them giving an open path for those in the higher end seats into the lower end ones in this scenario).

That's a big risk to take, renewing expensive tickets in hopes of getting cheaper ones.

Considering this organization, I wouldn't take that risk.

[London]

You are giving this guy way too much credit. He is a graduate of Loyalist College (out of Belleville, ON), not Loyola (the American University based out of Chicago).

a word to the wise


DO NOT stay at the hostel at loyola U in chicago, just dont do it.

[Fort York Redcoat]

That's a big risk to take, renewing expensive tickets in hopes of getting cheaper ones.

Considering this organization, I wouldn't take that risk.

There will be a relocation event this year. They realize how busy it may be this year.

[TFC John]

I'd be surprised if it was anything else. Their actual cost on these will be quite low. Also, don't forget the main driver of credit card carrots is to get you to sign up for the card and hopefully start using it, not paying it off in full and paying interest to the bank. The cost of said jersey is trivial compared to potential profits from this.




This card will get used once and then be trashed. They hope I'll spend more money with them in the future. I hope our team will start winning. I think we're both deluding ourselves.

[brad]

There will be a relocation event this year. They realize how busy it may be this year.

I wonder how easy it will be this year for people in more expensive seats to downgrade? If there is a lot of cheaper seats available, and little interest in the more expensive ones, they could look at a lot of lost revenue if they allowed a bunch of folks to downgrade with no-replacements for the expensive seats.

[Red CB Toronto]

At the end of the day it is up to each their own if they shall decide to renew or not and they should not take any flack for whatever route they pick. Having season tickets, attending 5 or so games a season or watching on TV shall not dictate what type of supporter you and suggest the level of interest you have in this team, especially the 11 that take the field each outing.

I for the record will be renewing, but understand where those who choose not too are coming from.

[Abou Sky]

I wonder how easy it will be this year for people in more expensive seats to downgrade? If there is a lot of cheaper seats available, and little interest in the more expensive ones, they could look at a lot of lost revenue if they allowed a bunch of folks to downgrade with no-replacements for the expensive seats.

Here is the rub, they want 25% deposit on your current seasons for you to be part of relocation.

I was planning on renewing BUT if I have to put out $450 for two tix (currently around $900/ea for season) and get there and there are no cheaper seats I am kind of stuck choosing between spending another $1350 or kissing my $450 goodbye.

I am going to take the risk, because I think that even if I can't get yellows I can get light grey. Also the order in which the allocation goes is from who has had tix longest so long term it helps to hold onto them because otherwise you go to the back of the line again.

[TFC John]

I think they'll drop the prices at the high end but keep the low end the same. They don't care about renewals in the yellow sections because they can always sell those seats. The waiting list is a joke unless they are offering supporter seats. Then people jump onboard. So the challenge they face is how do they keep people in the expensive seats? They drop the price to make them a little more attractive but keep the cheap seats at the current level. They could probably fill the stadium again if every seat was $20. (That may be an over statement considering what we've seen in our ticket exchange section this year but the general public doesn't really know how to access those tickets.) ML$E are doing the math on where and by how much they need to drop their prices to maintain there SSH numbers. If they lose those pre-sold tickets they're screwed. Anytime in the last two years that they had to sell tickets starting from zero we've seen that they are lucky to get the stadium half full. Of course the Rogers Centre was an exception but they also had months to promote that game.

[glaze]

Anytime in the last two years that they had to sell tickets starting from zero we've seen that they are lucky to get the stadium half full. Of course the Rogers Centre was an exception but they also had months to promote that game.

And that game had Beckham, and Toronto treated it as "an event'" which means people were going because it seemed like a cool thing to do, much like the Jays opening day gong show each year.

I think there are many creative options the club could do with ticketing. Why not rewards opening day SSH's with the ability to move to a better section at a discounted price? This could clear up some yellow seats as people upgrade to dark grey, etc. An across the board price cut is needed to get in line with the other franchises, as are more added value incentives to being an SSH. Right now we're saving money on face value, problem is face value is ridiculously overpriced to begin with. Otherwise they are trying to win us over with a scarf.

A winning team and a return to the atmosphere of 3 years ago and all of this becomes meaningless. They could get back to doing what MLSE does best price high and make it seem like theya re doing us a favour buy letting us have seasons tix. But realistically with PM running the show, next year will see a few more wins, but no chance of playoffs yet again.

[Yohan]

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/blog/_/name/espnfcunited/id/704?cc=5901

Someone send this article to Anselmi and MLSE board

[trane]

^ This is what I have been saying for a long time. Therefore any cachet this club has is due to us its supporters, they owes us lots of better butter.

[Beach_Red]

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/blog/_/name/espnfcunited/id/704?cc=5901

Someone send this article to Anselmi and MLSE board

It's okay, MLSE didn't buy a club, they bought a franchise. In my utopian dreams I picture an entire league of community-owned clubs.

[DangerRed]

Last Rememberance Day, Winter called me to ask why I wasn't renewing. Very curious to see if Mariner will be taking part in a similar bit of marketing this year.

Anyone else get the email about TFC paying your ticketmaster fees if you buy tickets to the October/Nov (cant remember which) games? Desperate times.

[v00d00daddy]

Anyone else get the email about TFC paying your ticketmaster fees if you buy tickets to the October/Nov (cant remember which) games? Desperate times.

I did. I giggled out loud when I read it and my wife asked why. I said "nevermind...it's not worth mentioning"....and promptly deleted the email.

[narduch]

Anyone else get the email about TFC paying your ticketmaster fees if you buy tickets to the October/Nov (cant remember which) games? Desperate times.

I got that too.

Tickets will still be cheaper on the aftermarket though, so why would anyone buy direct from the club.

A few weeks back they were running radio ads stating that tickets were available staring at $17. That is actually below the south end season ticket price per game.

[DangerRed]

I got that too.

Tickets will still be cheaper on the aftermarket though, so why would anyone buy direct from the club.

A few weeks back they were running radio ads stating that tickets were available staring at $17. That is actually below the south end season ticket price per game.

That's bananas. Unless that seat is in Mariner's lap! Although, that would be bananas too!

[narduch]

Just to add to the comedy, the game against Montreal on October 20th is a 'premium' game. That means tickets start at $41. Who the hell in their right mind would pay that much for a south end ticket to see TFC play?

[TOBOR !]

Last Rememberance Day, Winter called me to ask why I wasn't renewing. Very curious to see if Mariner will be taking part in a similar bit of marketing this year.

Anyone else get the email about TFC paying your ticketmaster fees if you buy tickets to the October/Nov (cant remember which) games? Desperate times.

Isn't this the type of shit they have to do in places like Phoenix to move hockey tickets ?

Pretty soon they'll offer free parking as well... which might not be such a bad deal : buy a cheap ticket, get free parking, leave your car on the lot, throw your ticket away and go for a nice walk along the waterfront.

[narduch]

Isn't this the type of shit they have to do in places like Phoenix to move hockey tickets ?

Pretty soon they'll offer free parking as well... which might not be such a bad deal : buy a cheap ticket, get free parking, leave your car on the lot, throw your ticket away and go for a nice walk along the waterfront.

They will never offer free parking, they don't own or run any lots around the stadium.

Just checked craigslist and you can get decent tickets for the Montreal game for $20 per seat. Why would you pay the club $41+ for the same ticket?

Edit: My bad, the Marlies offer 50% off parking for their season ticket holders. So the possibility does exist for the club to do something on the parking front.

http://www.marlies.ca/userfiles/image/seasonseatpostcard_updated%20copy.jpg

[TOBOR !]

nevermind

[Canada72]

They will never offer free parking, they don't own or run any lots around the stadium.

Just checked craigslist and you can get decent tickets for the Montreal game for $20 per seat. Why would you pay the club $41+ for the same ticket?

Edit: My bad, the Marlies offer 50% off parking for their season ticket holders. So the possibility does exist for the club to do something on the parking front.

http://www.marlies.ca/userfiles/image/seasonseatpostcard_updated%20copy.jpg

I got free parking to the MLS Cup final because I drove a VW so your right the possibility does exsit

[ensco]

I seriously doubt there'll be free parking or food discounts, or for that matter actual price cuts, because all of those moves are nearly irreversible - they're probably stuck with that forever once they bring it in.

We already know what they'll likely do - "free games". It's a lot easier to take back "free games" (as they did in 2012, remember, the opener was "free" in 2011) than it is to raise prices.

This methodology also helps them do differentiated pricing (ie more expensive seats get more free games). If I was to guess, south end will get one free game, but reds will get 4-5 games. Most people here aren't in them, but the better tickets are where the real problem is, reds trade for only $20 or less on ebay, but cost over $60. There will be carnage in the renewals in the prawn sandwich sections if they don't get real.

What the TFC marketing geniuses probably won't understand is, that when it takes the customer 3 hours to even understand whatever it is they propose, they're probably losing people right there.

[Oldtimer]

Just checked craigslist and you can get decent tickets for the Montreal game for $20 per seat. Why would you pay the club $41+ for the same ticket?



It's better to wait for the Groupon fire sales. It may go even lower.

One thing for sure, if you can get cheaper prices than SSH through Groupon/Craiglist/whatever, the rational for buying season tickets disappears, unless you like the convenience/particular seat.

[Oldtimer]

I seriously doubt there'll be free parking or food discounts or any of that because it's irreversible - they're stuck with that forever once they bring it in.

Any price drop, no matter how small, will be designed to be "temporary". My guess is they will do what they did in 2011 -use "free games" (remember, the opener was "free"). It's a lot easier to take back "free games" (as they did in 2012) than it is to raise prices.

This methodology also helps them do differentiated pricing (ie more expensive seats get more free games).

Given that they won't sell out the SSH packages this time, that strategy won't work. Why? Because they will actually need to lower the price of individual tickets in order to move them.

[nonc]

i think we all know that any compromises made are going to be far from meaningful, in fact it will probably be insulting (i.e a price freeze and merch grab). can't imagine why anyone would renew.

[Ben - D.O.W.]

The fact that they're calling this 'deal' the No Free Frenzy is a joke. I don't know if selling 10 more tickets (if they're lucky) qualifies as

fren·zy (frhttp://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/ebreve.gifnhttp://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/prime.gifzhttp://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/emacr.gif) n. pl. fren·zies 1. A state of violent mental agitation or wild excitement.
2. Temporary madness or delirium.
3. A mania; a craze.

It just shows how much our marketing department has zero clue - the problem here is not the TM fees.

[ensco]

Given that they won't sell out the SSH packages this time, that strategy won't work. Why? Because they will actually need to lower the price of individual tickets in order to move them.

Based on ebay and ticket trader observation, I don't think there have been any single game ticket sales the last 3 years. So I doubt it is coming into their thinking. I don't think walkup is as price sensitive as SSH, I just think they've disappeared for now. When they come back, they'll pay whatever it takes. So I doubt lowering single game tickets much will happen. SSHs are the whole enchilada now, with some mopping up done on travelzoo or whatever.

[narduch]

What the TFC marketing geniuses probably won't understand is, that when it takes the customer 3 hours to even understand whatever it is they propose, they're probably losing people right there.

You are talking about the marketing geniuses behind this epic campaign:

http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2010/09/tickets-2011-v-2010

[Ben - D.O.W.]

I was (I have no idea why) feeling sort of optimistic that the front office might actually get how bad things are and how much better they'll need to do with season ticket packages this year. This latest marketing brainstorm makes me think that no, no they have no clue what the issues are or what they need to do.

The chances of me not renewing are definitely up.

[DangerRed]

Yikes. "No Fee Frenzy" bringing out a different kind of frenzy on Facebook -- lots of pissed off people. One guy even questioned whether they'd be able to fill the stadium for the last two home games if they flat out gave away the tickets. I kind of agree too..

[narduch]

Its actually kind of comical watching the TFC marketing department in action these days.

As for season ticket renewals, I have no idea what they are planning, but going by the history of this club in all aspects of the business, I bet it will be underwhelming.

[Auzzy]

I for one hope they don't offer any kind of free parking or parking discount for season ticket holders. Exhibition Place parking is limited and hard to get to; often even non-existent or impossible to access due to special events. As a result, many people park off-site; even more take transit/walk/bike etc. I wouldn't be too pleased about a deal that will only be good for a certain percentage of supporters. If they have an available budget to spend on price drops/ marketing/ retention/ good will etc., I hope they will offer deals that more people can take advantage of.

It's different for other stadiums where a larger percentage drive, where ample parking exists on-site, and where few reasonable alternatives exist to get to the stadium for the majority of supporters, i.e., stadium in the boonies.

[Phil]

Given that they won't sell out the SSH packages this time, that strategy won't work. Why? Because they will actually need to lower the price of individual tickets in order to move them.

Sorry, but can I see your crystal ball? Apparently you know for a fact that prices won't decline?

[ryan]

Yikes. "No Fee Frenzy" bringing out a different kind of frenzy on Facebook -- lots of pissed off people. One guy even questioned whether they'd be able to fill the stadium for the last two home games if they flat out gave away the tickets. I kind of agree too..

I just had a total laugh on that FB chain, it's off the hook right now. Bloody comedy.

[Pookie]

Just to add to the comedy, the game against Montreal on October 20th is a 'premium' game. That means tickets start at $41. Who the hell in their right mind would pay that much for a south end ticket to see TFC play?

(-- insert adjective here --) minds think alike. I just tweeted that same. To sit in 109 will set you back $134 for the pair.

[narduch]

To sit in 109 will set you back $134 for the pair.

And then the club wonders why it so difficult to sell single game tickets.

With their 'frenzy' you probably save the additional $15-20 on that $134. Big deal. I've seen tickets on kijiji in 108 for $25 each.

[Oldtimer]

Sorry, but can I see your crystal ball? Apparently you know for a fact that prices won't decline?

I'm saying the opposite. I think they will lower prices, in particular for the more expensive tickets. And no, I don't have a crystal ball and predicting anything that ML$E will do can drive one insane (although predicting poor results seems to be fairly consistent, regardless of the sport).

[brad]

I for one hope they don't offer any kind of free parking or parking discount for season ticket holders. Exhibition Place parking is limited and hard to get to; often even non-existent or impossible to access due to special events. As a result, many people park off-site; even more take transit/walk/bike etc. I wouldn't be too pleased about a deal that will only be good for a certain percentage of supporters. If they have an available budget to spend on price drops/ marketing/ retention/ good will etc., I hope they will offer deals that more people can take advantage of.

It's different for other stadiums where a larger percentage drive, where ample parking exists on-site, and where few reasonable alternatives exist to get to the stadium for the majority of supporters, i.e., stadium in the boonies.

Free parking is also an incentive for people to drive to games instead of taking transit.

[brad]

Based on ebay and ticket trader observation, I don't think there have been any single game ticket sales the last 3 years. So I doubt it is coming into their thinking. I don't think walkup is as price sensitive as SSH, I just think they've disappeared for now. When they come back, they'll pay whatever it takes. So I doubt lowering single game tickets much will happen. SSHs are the whole enchilada now, with some mopping up done on travelzoo or whatever.

Walk up is also just as likely (if not more so) to buy off scalpers - which is currently under face most of the time.

[ryan]

Free parking is also an incentive for people to drive to games instead of taking transit.

Well Toronto's transit system sucks. From Yonge & Eg I can drive to lamport and park in under 20 minutes. I can't get there via TTC in under an hour and the destination station is a 2 minute walk away.

Transit issues aren't MLSE's issue, but this is a driver's city because of it. They could at least work with it.

[DangerRed]

Sorry, but can I see your crystal ball? Apparently you know for a fact that prices won't decline?

Do you know for a fact they will?

[maninb]

I can be at the game from Main & Danforth in under 20 minutes using transit...it's a 45 minute drive...so it's all relative...

[Auzzy]

Free parking is also an incentive for people to drive to games instead of taking transit.

Well, yes, but I didn't want to get any car fans all rev'd up. Decided to stick to arguments that more people can agree with. I'm not expecting MLSE to think about or help Toronto transportation planning issues, they have trouble frying MUCH smaller fish.

MLSE making parking cheaper & more popular at BMO isn't going to help anyone in the big picture either, unless they are also planning to pay to increase the road capacity all around the Ex grounds & Liberty Village. Traffic is already precarious in the whole area, adding hundreds more cars will make it worse for everyone in all modes. If somebody finds a good way to make it through with their vehicle & a good place to park at a reasonable price, more power to them. But no need to entice a portion of fans with lower parking costs, since they couldn't handle increased car demand anyway, and the other fans get nothing from it (other than possibly a harder time getting to the stadium themselves).

[craigtfc]

Desperate times calls for desperate measures!:facepalm: Got this e-mail just now.

TFC - No Fee Frenzy!

No Fee Frenzy! For 48 hours starting Thursday, September 27th at 10:00 a.m., we're removing all ticketing fees for the last two Toronto FC home games of the season. Join us at BMO Field and witness the authentic football experience, the atmosphere & share the passion and the chants.
http://www.ticketmaster.ca/promo/ejx87e?brand=torontofc

















http://image.mlsefanmail.com/lib/fed316717160047c/m/2/TFC_EmailHeader_Generic.jpg












http://image.mlsefanmail.com/lib/ffcf14/m/1/spacer.gif




http://image.mlsefanmail.com/lib/ffcf14/m/1/spacer.gif










http://image.mlsefanmail.com/lib/fed316717160047c/m/3/48NoFeeFrenzy.jpg (http://click.mlsefanmail.com/?qs=bb30fcc33f0fef734ccd57bdb95ca4c568aed6e305e88f 94b44c9504c16c24a13726d3873c13db33)You buy the tickets Craig, we cover all of the fees!

The No Fee Frenzy is only available for 48 hours . When you purchase tickets for the last two home games of the season during this timeframe, we'll cover all service and ordering fees.

Your No Fee Frenzy begins Thursday, September 27th at 10:00 a.m. through to Saturday, September 29th at 10:00 a.m.

Use the password SAVE to claim this offer.

http://image.mlsefanmail.com/lib/fed316717160047c/m/3/TFC_PURCHASE.jpg (http://click.mlsefanmail.com/?qs=bb30fcc33f0fef730ba3116033c09060f1a97859c909e6 c0254239fe27f45156844508f46327facd)


Take in the action at BMO Field with the last two remaining matches this season. Come early for our pre-game party and cheer on your Reds as they wrap up the season.

http://image.mlsefanmail.com/lib/fed316717160047c/m/3/48HourOffer.jpg (http://click.mlsefanmail.com/?qs=bb30fcc33f0fef73d35b6a9e7580e496d30c4e8dbc243c b1ebe38f20b418311a7215bffcd31bade2)

Toronto FC
//ALL FOR ONE

[trane]

If I here this shit again, from MLSE

"Join us at BMO Field and witness the authentic football experience, the atmosphere & share the passion and the chants"

I will obliage them and go down to give them an "authentic football experience, the atmosphere & share the passion and the chants" experience as in Grobari v Delije.

[Couchy81]

For a second I thought they were making the last two games free when I first saw this advertised on FB. Even then I didn't think they could fill the stadium. This promotion won't work, it's too little.

[Thomas]

You mean direct via GO, right?


I can be at the game from Main & Danforth in under 20 minutes using transit...it's a 45 minute drive...so it's all relative...

[Ajax TFC]

we should all file a class action lawsuit against MLSE for false advertising

[trane]

^ For five seasons at least they have been selling the atmosphere that the supporters create as the reason for the supporters to come down. Its fraud. We should just do it in the parking lot next to the stadium.

FOR THE TWO LAST GAMES STADIUM SHOULD BE EMPTY AND THE SUPPORTERS SHOULD SURROUND THE STADIUM.

[tfcleeds]

Yay! No ticketing fees from TicketBastard! That's it, sign me up for 100 tickets.

[PAOK17]

^ For five seasons at least they have been selling the atmosphere that the supporters create as the reason for the supporters to come down. Its fraud. We should just do it in the parking lot next to the stadium.

FOR THE TWO LAST GAMES STADIUM SHOULD BE EMPTY AND THE SUPPORTERS SHOULD SURROUND THE STADIUM.
I actually like this idea. It's unprecedented in Toronto sports. The media would be all over...oh wait. Larson would just right a piece about us being ungrateful and whiny. Whatever, I'd still participate! We could even make up our own mock-ads "Come experience a true Football atmosphere at BMO's Field's...parking lot! Tickets as high as $0!"

[tfcleeds]

There is so much wrong with this promotion, I don't know where to begin - I just find it hilarious that they actually think people are gullible enough to be excited about this.

[DangerRed]

Don't want to be "that guy" and pseudomoderate, but already being discussed here just FYI: http://redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?32655-Renewing-or-Not-Renewing/page14

[nfitz]

You mean direct via GO, right?He said direct via transit. GO Transit is transit.

Though it's a 22-minute train ride, so 25-minutes via transit is more reasonable.

That's my route too ... plus a 15-20 minute walk to Danforth station, quicker if I jump on a 506.

But when I miss the train, it's not exactly the end of the world to just take the subway to Ossington, and then the Ossington bus down. It's only 40 minutes to Atlantic/Liberty.

I think there's some exaggeration from those saying it takes 60 minutes on transit from Yonge/Eglinton. If it's really taking that long, they are not taking the best route for a particular time of day, or considering the various construction projects going on around the city. 45-minutes is more reasonable ... though it's only about 20-minutes from Eglinton station to Ossington station, and about 15-minutes from Ossington to Liberty/Atlantic ... so hard to see how it would take an hour.

Personally if I was starting at Eglinton station I'd be tempted (say for the next 1 pm kickoff) to simply take the subway to Union, and jump on the 12:43 train that arrives at Exhibition at 12:49. It's 15-minutes travel time on the subway from Eglinton to Union ... so that's a total travel time of 21 minutes. Say 30-35 minutes by the time you wait for the GO train, walk to the stadium, etc. Sure, you have to pay an extra $4.15 ... but cheaper than parking, and less frustrating than the bus/streetcar.

[TFC Tifoso]

TFC.....no fees, no wins, no pants.........

[narduch]

TFC.....no fees, no wins, no pants.........

No Frills!

[ag futbol]

If I here this shit again, from MLSE

"Join us at BMO Field and witness the authentic football experience, the atmosphere & share the passion and the chants"

I will obliage them and go down to give them an "authentic football experience, the atmosphere & share the passion and the chants" experience as in Grobari v Delije.
Why don't we make it like Genoa, except instead of forcing the players to take their shirts off, we can get the finance department to toss out their pocket calculators.

[Yagbod]

Sorry, off of the general topic, but: is Ossington Bus better than Dufferin? The Duff bus is a massive pain, but drops off at king/dufferin. Thanks.

[TFC Tifoso]

No Frills!

yes I forgot about that......

no fees, no wins, no frills, no pants.......forza TFC!........

[TOBOR !]

Well, yes, but I didn't want to get any car fans all rev'd up. Decided to stick to arguments that more people can agree with. I'm not expecting MLSE to think about or help Toronto transportation planning issues, they have trouble frying MUCH smaller fish.

MLSE making parking cheaper & more popular at BMO isn't going to help anyone in the big picture either, unless they are also planning to pay to increase the road capacity all around the Ex grounds & Liberty Village. Traffic is already precarious in the whole area, adding hundreds more cars will make it worse for everyone in all modes. If somebody finds a good way to make it through with their vehicle & a good place to park at a reasonable price, more power to them. But no need to entice a portion of fans with lower parking costs, since they couldn't handle increased car demand anyway, and the other fans get nothing from it (other than possibly a harder time getting to the stadium themselves).

How about this, then :

Renew your season tickets by [dd/mm] and select from the following list of rewards :


complimentary jersey
free parking / parking discount
2 seat upgrades
concessions discounts / coupons
tickets to Marlie games
tickets to Raptor games

[Auzzy]

yes I forgot about that......

no fees, no wins, no frills, no pants.......forza TFC!........

That would look good in that TFC Facebook thread!

[Auzzy]

How about this, then :

Renew your season tickets by [dd/mm] and select from the following list of rewards :


complimentary jersey
free parking / parking discount
2 seat upgrades
concessions discounts / coupons
tickets to Marlie games
tickets to Raptor games



The man's gotta plan! Err, I mean the robot.

In addition, for lots of European sport events, even for concerts etc, the ticket includes the transit fare to the stadium. But considering TTC's lack of capacity, difficulty organizing service, need to recover over 80% at the fare box, etc... not sure how well that would work here. Maybe after Queens Quay has been rebuilt & they have the new higher-capacity streetcars on the 509 route.

[Dave67]

If you really want to gauge how fans feel outside of the supporter groups I would strongly suggest you go here https://www.facebook.com/torontofc and read the comments posted under the announcement of this deal. There are some exceptionally well written posts from fans about this offer.

I like this post, I don't know this person but they could be on any of the boards.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

This is just a hollow 'victory'. Some may call us fans 'spoiled' or 'brats'. Others may say that we are a bunch of silver spooned children. But this is just pointless. What marketing did they do, to determine that the service fee was the deciding factor on buying tickets to a TFC game???

There is a long list of things that MLSE could do to improve the fan experience to draw people into games that mean nothing for the squad, the city or the sport. How about subsidizing the costs of parking at the lot on the CNE ground, so that everyone parks for free (turn OFF the meter) or pre-buy passes for all the parking spots around the stadium for these games. They SURELY have done research to see how much of the fan base walks there, drives there, takes transit there or even BIKES to BMO so they can pre pay for enough spots...or maybe that's asking too much that they KNOW the fans. I digress, getting off point here.

The next step would be to offer tickets that are not held by season ticket holder, FOR FREE. Yes, I know this creates a small issue with us folks that already bought the tickets. Solution: How about a MASS credit to all of the accounts, so that we have INCENTIVE to pony up for 2013 since we'll have those dollars sitting on account to put more money into LOWER 2013 season ticket prices.

You are still going to make concession money on beer, snacks, food and merchandise (one would hope) and the people that are suffering from the low attendance and put up with the crowds (when we had them) the heat and the cold...the concession staff, have a chance to make tips and a few extra bucks. Lord help them for trying to make an honest wage at a place that once was a shrine and a goldmine.

I also, truly feel sorry for the folks that update this page as well as the Twitter account. The bile that is being spat in TFC's direction must be biblical....but the fact of the matter is, it's all deserved, as long as we, the fans and paying public remain constructive towards how to IMPROVE the situation at this time. The amount of people that actually CARE about the drivel that gets posted and all the nonsensical and fabricated meaning it has in the grand scheme of things is probably neigh on zero.

I implore and DARE MLSE and TFC to create a dedicated fan board of directors, made up of the general public (season ticket holders, supporter groups and the like) that has influence, sway and a direct line of communication to sympathetic, passionate and ACCOUNTABLE owners, that will produce immediate results with the team. Not duck behind walls of silence, or perched in ivory towers high above things...

The fan base is shrinking. The fans are speaking. Toronto Football Club...are you prepared to invest financially now or suffer financially shortly?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


This one too.


"The problem Gary, is that despite how bad this club has performed in all areas, they've made bank. That's why Tom goes up the food chain, he's making money off literal garbage.

Stop paying for this crap. If you absolutely must attend then do the poor souls stuck with tickets a favour and buy it from them, don't fuel this beast any further and help someone out.

MLSE doesn't care much for the pennies TFC makes in comparison to their other assets. They just think eventually they'll luck into wins and everything will be okay. Oblivious to the fact that supporter culture is dead because the south end is infected with families and scalpers. Then again, that's what they want, families spend more on concessions and demand less in terms of performance."

[narduch]

I think there's some exaggeration from those saying it takes 60 minutes on transit from Yonge/Eglinton.

I could totally see it taking that long for a weekday game. You aren't accounting for transfer wait times and rush hour traffic.

Driving vs. public transit is different for everyone.

I live in Vaughan, for weekend games, I can drive to the stadium in about 30 minutes (45 if there's construction), but it takes me around an hour and a half to use the TTC (drive to Yorkdale, subway down).

[brad]

The man's gotta plan! Err, I mean the robot.

In addition, for lots of European sport events, even for concerts etc, the ticket includes the transit fare to the stadium. But considering TTC's lack of capacity, difficulty organizing service, need to recover over 80% at the fare box, etc... not sure how well that would work here. Maybe after Queens Quay has been rebuilt & they have the new higher-capacity streetcars on the 509 route.

When the team first started playing and was super popular, the TTC ran express buses to and from BMO from Bathurst station just for TFC games. It was fantastic.

[Oldtimer]

Don't want to be "that guy" and pseudomoderate, but already being discussed here just FYI: http://redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?32655-Renewing-or-Not-Renewing/page14

merged threads.

[brad]

this comment is great as well

"call the ticket reps or buy on the day at the stadium and there is no fee anyway- wow - great promo, TFC. How is that 'hottest party in town" marketing spin going?"

Sleight of hand promotion.

[Oldtimer]

^ buy from a desperate SSH and get it even cheaper, also no Ticketmaster fees involved!

[ensco]

I think there's some exaggeration from those saying it takes 60 minutes on transit from Yonge/Eglinton.

I live near there.

TTC: It takes about 45-50 minutes either way once you get on the train at Eglinton, 25 mins to Union, 5 minute wait, 15-20 mins on LRT, walk to BMO. If you have a 10 min walk to Yonge and Eglinton, it's an hour, any time of day or week.

Driving: 25-30 mins there (longer on weeknights, more like 40-45 mins). 30-40 mins back, depending on traffic in and around BMO. The drive home was close to an hour in the early years (as getting out of Ex grounds or Liberty Village was much worse with a full stadium)

[Whoop]

I drive to BMO because from where I live (near Downsview Park) I can make it in about 25-30 minutes tops. Given that transit isn't the best in the area, it would take me an hour or more to get to BMO via TTC.

As for parking, given that TFC games aren't as popular these days you have a lot of parking options. I haven't parked on CNE grounds in about 6 years now.

If it's a night game say 7:30, you can park on King Street for example, and just pay up to 9 p.m. After 9 p.m. parking is free. The 8 pm CCL starts are fantastic for this as parking ends up being even cheaper.

The Liberty parking lot is also inexpensive but fills up fast, especially on weekends.

Lamport used to be great because for night games it used to be like $2 for parking, they've jacked up the prices now.

[nfitz]

Sorry, off of the general topic, but: is Ossington Bus better than Dufferin? The Duff bus is a massive pain, but drops off at king/dufferin. Thanks.It's almost as frequent, but much more reliable, and less crowded - and less traffic jams. Liberty/Atlantic is closer to BMO than King/Dufferin - and still not far from Shoeless. And with the current construction on Dufferin, I thought most of the Dufferin buses were short-turning at Queen.

I'm always shocked how few people board the Ossington bus after a game - you might get there faster occasionally on the Dufferin bus, but your more likely to get their faster consistently on the Ossington bus.


I live near there.

TTC: It takes about 45-50 minutes either way once you get on the train at Eglinton, 25 mins to Union[45 minutes total I could believe. But 25 minutes on the subway train to go 11 stations? Perhaps in the heart of rush-hour, when the system is failing because of crowding. I've found the TTC's old travel time calculator - http://web.archive.org/web/20070930014632/http://www.toronto.ca/ttc/pdf/subway_travel_time_chart.pdf very accurate, and it says 15 minutes. Going home, I'd think you'd be faster to take the Ossington bus to the Bloor subway, given the line-ups for the 509 (which is a bus these days ...)

Sure, could probably drive faster ... but that does preclude drinking ... and is so stressful in comparison. The one time I tried it (because I was out-of-town until game-time, and driving past the stadium, it took me about 45 minutes just to get from the stadium, to the parking lot at Lamport, and drive from there down King to Bathurst Street (as I recall, I looked at the clock, and realized that I'd have long been home by then if I'd taken GO home). Might have been better parking at the Ex, but I've been stuck around the Ex in traffic before, and spent 30 minutes just parked on Lakeshore.

Now, driving home at midnight from the same location, I often drive instead of taking transit, as I can do it in 15 minutes or so, and parking is a breeze.

[ag futbol]

I lived within a few minutes of eglinton station for a while. To get to work at yonge - king during the morning rush my ballpark was usually 35 min. door to door. 20 to union on the weekend is probably reasonable.... If everything goes perfectly

For home to BMO it was easily 50 minutes with the odd WTF time when TTC would operate as advertised and I'd get there in 40 flat. If the travel times of actually taking the TTC matched the trip adviser 50% of the time I'd be shocked. The other thing is there is once in a while a real crap day when your trip time just explodes for some unknown reason.

My estimate: probably 50 min avg. range of trip times between 40 and 1:15 min ( excluding the real disaster days)

[69Chevy396]

For a second I thought they were making the last two games free when I first saw this advertised on FB. Even then I didn't think they could fill the stadium. This promotion won't work, it's too little.
Even free, they would have trouble attacting new fans.

[Chevy]

Unless they are talking about the action in front of our keeper from 80 minutes onward the term Frenzy would hardly apply. How about the "Never Free Fuckup"?

[nonc]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


This one too.


"The problem Gary, is that despite how bad this club has performed in all areas, they've made bank. That's why Tom goes up the food chain, he's making money off literal garbage.

Stop paying for this crap. If you absolutely must attend then do the poor souls stuck with tickets a favour and buy it from them, don't fuel this beast any further and help someone out.

MLSE doesn't care much for the pennies TFC makes in comparison to their other assets. They just think eventually they'll luck into wins and everything will be okay. Oblivious to the fact that supporter culture is dead because the south end is infected with families and scalpers. Then again, that's what they want, families spend more on concessions and demand less in terms of performance."


aside from overpaying on a worthless product, this person describes exactly why renewing seems so radically incoherent to me. it's like giving money to a meth addict thinking they won't spend it on meth.

not renewing does not = disowning TFC.

[tiberius]

Based on ebay and ticket trader observation, I don't think there have been any single game ticket sales the last 3 years. So I doubt it is coming into their thinking. I don't think walkup is as price sensitive as SSH, I just think they've disappeared for now. When they come back, they'll pay whatever it takes. So I doubt lowering single game tickets much will happen. SSHs are the whole enchilada now, with some mopping up done on travelzoo or whatever.

I'm not quite sure I understand - there are about 35 tix on Stubhub under $40 for the last game of the season, and nobody puts tickets up for auction on ebay anymore because there is zero demand - you put your tickets up for auction you may be lettinga pair go for $5-$10, so nobody bothers...

[ensco]

But 25 minutes on the subway train to go 11 stations? Perhaps in the heart of rush-hour, when the system is failing because of crowding. I've found the TTC's old travel time calculator - http://web.archive.org/web/20070930014632/http://www.toronto.ca/ttc/pdf/subway_travel_time_chart.pdf very accurate, and it says 15 minutes. Going home, I'd think you'd be faster to take the Ossington bus to the Bloor subway, given the line-ups for the 509 (which is a bus these days ...)



I do it 25-50 times a year. It takes 25 minutes. There are usually delays at Davisville, Bloor and King (sometimes). Bloor is often a 5 minute stop. Take it to the bank.

Plus the frequency is not good enough - 6 minutes in rush hour, 8 minutes midday. It should be 90-120 seconds in rush hour (and is on major lines in most cities in the world)

[Auzzy]

So when you read the offer: "TFC - No Fee Frenzy!" you might have thought, um, that there would be "no fee" to purchase these tickets, right?

Well.... actually..... if you try to complete the purchase, you find that they will charge you a "$5.25 Order Processing Fee" right at the end when you enter the payment details --- ah ha ha ha ha that's awesome!!!

No I wasn't even thinking of purchasing these tickets, just figured there might be some extra fee at the end so I decided to give it a try. I hate Ticketmaster anyway, but this is just delicious.

[ensco]

I'm not quite sure I understand - there are about 35 tix on Stubhub under $40 for the last game of the season, and nobody puts tickets up for auction on ebay anymore because there is zero demand - you put your tickets up for auction you may be lettinga pair go for $5-$10, so nobody bothers...

I'm saying since the single game market doesn't really exist any more, MLSE won't lower pricing for it, because it doesn't matter where pricing is set, the single gamers aren't coming regardless.

[Alonso]

Tiberius, I think your account has been hacked by King Dave!

You need to log in and change your password immediately!

PM'ing right now to make sure you get this ASAP....

[tiberius]

Tiberius, I think your account has been hacked by King Dave!

You need to log in and change your password immediately!

PM'ing right now to make sure you get this ASAP....

Ah Alonso - I will cherish your last response before my ultimate ban... Long live King Dave, long live Roogsie and a ton of others... ... you just can't let MLSE continuously screw with this board. Call a spade a spade. Enough is enough - this guy should have been long gone as a troller - MLSE wins! Carry on boys! Long live T-boy and Nfitz!!!! Sheeesh.

The definition of a troll is:

a term used to describe any Internet user behavior that is meant to intentionally anger or frustrate someone else

An individual who chronically trolls in regularly posts specious arguments,

Trolls are recognizable by the fact that they have no real interest in learning about the topic at hand - they simply want to utter flame bait. Like the ugly creatures they are named after, they exhibit no redeeming characteristics, and as such, they are recognized as a lower form of life on the net, as in, “Oh, ignore him, he's just a troll.

Rest assured, I love debate and difference of opinion - that is not what this is about...

[T-boy]

You called?! :p

[tiberius]

I'm saying since the single game market doesn't really exist any more, MLSE won't lower pricing for it, because it doesn't matter where pricing is set, the single gamers aren't coming regardless.

Ah - so true - if there are no walk ups - why worry? They might a well leave the walk up price high because random walk-ups will pay the going price. I wonder what kind of volume the BMo ticket office and Ticketmonster have had this year? I can"t imagine many folk paying the full Monty - especially with the hungry scalpers already talking a huge bath... Surely they would intercept most walkups with a more attractive priced ticket...

[tiberius]

You called?! :p

T-boy - Thank God you are back - please debate nfitz for a while - he has blown my brains out!

[T-boy]

T-boy - Thank God you are back - please debate nfitz for a while - he has blown my brains out!

Oh man, I just can't do it right now! I put so much enthusiasm into posting for most of this season, and it just got so negative around here, it was too painful to post. I try and be positive and find the positive aspects of games/play/management/players - but it got to the point about a month ago that if I posted *anything* positive at all, I was laughed at, poked fun at, and usually picked on, often by a mod. So, I haven't been here in a while, as even the most positive fan out there (like myself) can't deal with so much negativity.

I'm beginning to think I am the bad luck around here though - not only are TFC on a "games without a (league) win" streak again, but my Oxford United are now 5 games lost in a row! I'll keep trucking though. I'm off to England this weekend and I'll catch 2 Oxford games next week (against Wimbledon and top-of-the-table Gillingham). My father told me "not to expect to see much good football or a win", and I said "don't worry, I'm used to that watching TFC!". He laughed. I'll be back in Toronto for the Montreal game. I hope we win that one, local derby and all.

That's all I have to say. I can't debate somebody, tiberius, if all my enthusiasm for trying to be positive has been beaten out of me by my fellow supporters :( I come here to read the news, but not post right now. When the mood, and the in-fighting between supporters, lets up, I will post again. But otherwise its like posting against a wave of hate.

[tiberius]

Oh man, I just can't do it right now! ... I'll be back in Toronto for the Montreal game. I hope we win that one, local derby and all...


Travel safe - see you at the last home game...

[T-boy]

Travel safe - see you at the last home game...

Cheers man. We may be the only two at the game. At least it will be easy to spot each other! :p

[TOBOR !]

LOL tiberius ; loses it !

nfitz ; is the patron saint of lost arguments... the funny thing is he starts
most of them.

edit : [notices tiberius has been banned] ah, well... he was probably driven to madness by the combined effects of tiny doses of nfitz ; and TFC ineptitude.

I'm surprised it doesn't happen to more of us, to be honest.

[TFC07]

Free parking?

Screw that! Put a winning and exciting team and reduce ticket prices. That will be enough to win fans back! Free parking isn't good enough and besides, who drives to downtown Toronto? That is traffic nightmare unless we're talking about driving during weeknights.

Why did TTC stop 509 streetcar service? 509 Buses are too slow because they're always caught in traffic (especially around Bathurst and Lakeshore intersection)

[tfcleeds]

^509 streetcar service hasn't been discontinued - just temporarily replaced by buses until 2013 while the Queen's Quay revitalization project is being done. I agree that the Bathurst/Lakeshore intersection is a nightmare though with the buses.

[narduch]

I'm saying since the single game market doesn't really exist any more, MLSE won't lower pricing for it, because it doesn't matter where pricing is set, the single gamers aren't coming regardless.

This is similar to the Blue Jays ticketing policy. (Although they do get a lot of single game buyers, mostly driven by the fact there are so many damn games).

But ever since Paul Beeston took over the Jays again, they started implementing a policy of not discounting tickets. For example, they stopped running Toonie Tuesdays. There policy is to not devalue the product.

The Jays didn't want to devalue their product.

Now the Jays owners are part owners of TFC. One of the reason for the season ticket renewal delay may be a fight between the existing TFC front office and the new owners over price point.

[ag futbol]

This is similar to the Blue Jays ticketing policy. (Although they do get a lot of single game buyers, mostly driven by the fact there are so many damn games).

But ever since Paul Beeston took over the Jays again, they started implementing a policy of not discounting tickets. For example, they stopped running Toonie Tuesdays. There policy is to not devalue the product.

The Jays didn't want to devalue their product.

Now the Jays owners are part owners of TFC. One of the reason for the season ticket renewal delay may be a fight between the existing TFC front office and the new owners over price point.
Oh man, I hope that’s not the argument that is playing out behind the scenes. The jays are just backstopped by so many things TFC is not. They have more history, two world championships, a large TV audience, out of town fans from division rivals who will attend in large numbers, as well as a location that makes it easier for walk-up sales. Not only that, but of the four Toronto sports team’s playing under the umbrella of rogers, they are the only one not playing in the #1 global league or in a half decent facility. It’s hard to sell the “come to BMO field and get horizontal rain in the face” story compared to sitting in the ACC or Rogers centre where you can be more easily distracted by other things.

If I am doing ticket sales for TFC next season, I probably have this feeling of a noose tightening around my neck. I don’t see what story they have left to sell to fans, they’ve tried just about everything already. Anselmi is probably trotting out his “sports is cyclical” line with regularity.

[nfitz]

I do it 25-50 times a year. It takes 25 minutes. There are usually delays at Davisville, Bloor and King (sometimes). Bloor is often a 5 minute stop. Take it to the bank.I don't believe it. I frequently get on this train at Bloor station. I've NEVER seen a southbound train sit in Bloor station for 5 minutes. Even in rush-hour.


Plus the frequency is not good enough - 6 minutes in rush hour, 8 minutes midday. It should be 90-120 seconds in rush hour (and is on major lines in most cities in the world)The frequency isn't 6-minutes in rush hour. It's scheduled as 2.4 minutes in morning rush-hour and 2.5 minutes in afternoon rush-hour - might see the occasional 5-minute gap, but then other trains would move through quickly. I've stood there many times in rush-hour, and as soon as one train pulls out, another pulls into Bloor station. Mid-day is less than 4-minutes.

LOL @tiberius (http://redpatchboys.ca/forums/member.php?u=41336) ; loses it !

@nfitz (http://redpatchboys.ca/forums/member.php?u=338) ; is the patron saint of lost arguments... the funny thing is he starts
most of them.What are you talking about?

[spark]

nfitz you really need to drop it.

To further bury your ridiculous argument - I rode that line every day M-F for five years (2006-2011) and can say unequivocally that's how long it takes. I HAVE seen a train sit at bloor (and pretty much every other station along the line) for five minutes (often might be an exaggeration but it does happen with regularity) - delays happen all the time if you ride the TTC everyday. Even without them - 25 mins up and down from Eglinton is how long it takes, that is reality of actually doing it, not looking at a TTC timetable.

[DangerRed]

nfitz, not calling you out for being an idiot, because you're probably more stubborn than stupid, but I rode that line for more than 10 years (early 1990s to 2003) every single fucking day. And the train stood at Bloor station. For 5 minutes. Sometimes more. Often.

[DangerRed]

Ah Alonso - I will cherish your last response before my ultimate ban... Long live King Dave, long live Roogsie and a ton of others... ... you just can't let MLSE continuously screw with this board. Call a spade a spade. Enough is enough - this guy should have been long gone as a troller - MLSE wins! Carry on boys! Long live T-boy and Nfitz!!!! Sheeesh.

The definition of a troll is:

a term used to describe any Internet user behavior that is meant to intentionally anger or frustrate someone else

An individual who chronically trolls in regularly posts specious arguments,

Trolls are recognizable by the fact that they have no real interest in learning about the topic at hand - they simply want to utter flame bait. Like the ugly creatures they are named after, they exhibit no redeeming characteristics, and as such, they are recognized as a lower form of life on the net, as in, “Oh, ignore him, he's just a troll.

Rest assured, I love debate and difference of opinion - that is not what this is about...
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41h7hgzOVBL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

[Fort York Redcoat]

I don't believe it. I frequently get on this train at Bloor station. I've NEVER seen a southbound train sit in Bloor station for 5 minutes. Even in rush-hour.

The frequency isn't 6-minutes in rush hour. It's scheduled as 2.4 minutes in morning rush-hour and 2.5 minutes in afternoon rush-hour - might see the occasional 5-minute gap, but then other trains would move through quickly. I've stood there many times in rush-hour, and as soon as one train pulls out, another pulls into Bloor station. Mid-day is less than 4-minutes.
What are you talking about?


The persons asking for travel information have it. This conversation is now becoming off topic. Let's move on before it becomes a flame war and infractions are given. Thanks.

[Richard]

Im gonna miss Tiberius, atleast for his avatar.

[Oldtimer]

Im gonna miss Tiberius, atleast for his avatar. But seriously he shouldnt be banned.

He's not permanently banned (yet), he just accumulated enough bad points to be off the board for a while.

Any discussions about moderating should be done via PM to any of the moderators, not by posting in thread, per board rules.

[Whoop]

One day TFC will be, if not already, a case study of how not to run a business.

And to think after the first two years it was seen as a model, though a lot of people were already seeing holes in their business model.

[james]

2 years ago i went to West Ham vs Burnley FA Cup 5th round i bleive. It was 15 pounbds for all ticekts at upton park (roughly $23 canadian)

i just checked some recent prices of this season and this is what i see.

On september 22nd,2012 League Cup 3rd round match, West Ham vs Wigan at Upton Park. Tickets 15 pounds (roughly $23 Candian) to sit anywhere in the stadium. Kids 8 pounds (roughly $12.50 Canadian).

Southampton vs West Ham United October 20th,2012 at Upton Park......special deal, kids are 1 pound a ticket or roughly about $1.60 Canadian. Thats a premiership game.

As comparisson to tickets at BMO field, some games only our south end ticekts are cheaper then going to west ham games. And only just by a few dollars. I never see special deals for kids close to what West Ham some times offer. I know it's a different country different league and all, but as we all know just another comparison to show how ripped of TFC fans get.

[TFC07]

To be fair, West Ham (or any premier team) can afford to sell tickets for very low price because huge TV money contracts teams in Premier league get. Plus, I am sure money they get from their sponsors are a lot too. TFC (and MLS in general) get most of their revenue from tickets since TV contracts and sponsorship money is low.

I think it's better to compare TFC to other MLS teams.

[TOBOR !]

To be fair, West Ham (or any premier team) can afford to sell tickets for very low price because huge TV money contracts teams in Premier league get. Plus, I am sure money they get from their sponsors are a lot too. TFC (and MLS in general) get most of their revenue from tickets since TV contracts and sponsorship money is low.

I think it's better to compare TFC to other MLS teams.

Do that at your own peril.

MLSE compares it to the cost of the Leafs and Raptors, and whatever else is going on in the marketplace.

[Ben - D.O.W.]

MLSE compares it to the cost of the Leafs and Raptors, and whatever else is going on in the marketplace because they're idiots.

Helped with your post.

[TOBOR !]

Helped with your post.

LOL. Indeed... but that's always implied :)

[tfcleeds]

Just noticed Paul Beirne lurking in the renewal thread over on U-Sector's board. Generally speaking, I'd say he isn't playing to as tough a crowd over there....

[mlsintoronto]

lurk. lurk.

[TOBOR !]

lurk. lurk.

Lol !

[ensco]

lurk. lurk.

So .... wazzup? Care to run anything up the flagpole and see who salutes?

[PAOK17]

nfitz you really need to drop it.

To further bury your ridiculous argument - I rode that line every day M-F for five years (2006-2011) and can say unequivocally that's how long it takes. I HAVE seen a train sit at bloor (and pretty much every other station along the line) for five minutes (often might be an exaggeration but it does happen with regularity) - delays happen all the time if you ride the TTC everyday. Even without them - 25 mins up and down from Eglinton is how long it takes, that is reality of actually doing it, not looking at a TTC timetable.

I don't agree with nfitz on anything. But all I know is that I have been riding the TTC in rush hour, morning and evening for years and I would go from Sheppard to College in about 30 mins. Actually, I would get from my house to U of T (College side) in 40 mins. Sure there are delays but that's the same as everywhere. Also after living in the UK for a year, I have to say that our subway system, though not nearly as many lines, is far more comfortable than the London Tube. They don't even have air conditioning on their trains. And they are way smaller and cramped.

Also nfitz is right. During rush hour there are trains less than every 3 minutes. And the platform delays are not that frequent. Five minutes is a bit of an exaggeration for a regular length delay. A train idling even for a minute on a platform should feel like an eternity since doors are open usually for no more than 15 seconds, if that.

[TOBOR !]

I never ride the subway. I drive my car everywhere, so I have no idea how long a train sits at a station.

I can, however, regale you with stories of driving along the 403-QEW-427-401-400 and sometimes 407.

Would anyone like to read about my daily commute ? ... or can we just keep this thread on the general topic of whether you are renewing your season tickets or not ?

No more posts about train delays.

[Suds]

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/13103711.jpg

[james]

I don't agree with nfitz on anything. But all I know is that I have been riding the TTC in rush hour, morning and evening for years and I would go from Sheppard to College in about 30 mins. Actually, I would get from my house to U of T (College side) in 40 mins. Sure there are delays but that's the same as everywhere. Also after living in the UK for a year, I have to say that our subway system, though not nearly as many lines, is far more comfortable than the London Tube. They don't even have air conditioning on their trains. And they are way smaller and cramped.

Also nfitz is right. During rush hour there are trains less than every 3 minutes. And the platform delays are not that frequent. Five minutes is a bit of an exaggeration for a regular length delay. A train idling even for a minute on a platform should feel like an eternity since doors are open usually for no more than 15 seconds, if that.

i lived in the UK for 2 years, only got back in June. I lived just on the outskirts of London. Now that i am back in Canada living in Oakville i can tell you my personal exsperience of the transit in the GTA is a joke. Yes the GO trains are nicer, more confortable and the subway is cleanner and less cramed. But the London trains are not always packed and are not that dirty. Also look at our subway, it covers the smallest of areas in Toronto. London it covers the whole dam city. The above ground train rails are everywhere as well. If you want to get to the center, North, East, West, South sides of the city there is a rail and underground and ways to get to any of these places. Trains even on non peak hours are never more then 10-15 mins apart. If i want to get to B'ham, Liverpool, Manchester there are loads of trains and options to take every hour. If i want to get to Portsmouth or Brighton , there are umpting train rides an hour as well to get to these cities from London. i want to get to Gatwick or Heathrow Airport, well there are trains running all the time as well. Now the GO Train unless its rush hour they are 1 train an hour. I want to get to Hamilton, it is only waht 30km away??? nope train service is not there, have to get a bus at Burlington or aldershot to get there. Want a train to Niagra Falls, nope only in the summer time at certain hours of the day, winter this service doesn't even exsist. I want to get to North missasauga ...nope i i would have to go to Union first. I want to get to Peaarson Airport? nope got to take a cab.

There has been to many times i miss a train and am left waitting for 40-50 minutes for the next dam train. Many times its watch the end of TFC game and wait 50mins for next train or leave at 80min and time it just right to get the train home without waitting. Our system is shit and it is only made to get people to and from Downtown Toronto, and it is not even good at doing that. it is not really made to get people else where in the city and GTA area. I would rather take a cramed train or less comfortable train any day if it saves me waitting around for up to an hour for the next train sometimes even waitting in the cold, rain or in some shitty bus shelter waitting for the next GO Train. Subway needs to cover more of the central, North West and North East ends of the city. A subway to Pearson construction needs to start construction NOW!

[PAOK17]

I agree with the inefficiencies with our train systems. I was just saying that the subway system getting you from station A to station B is not as bad as we think. The lack of stations is an entirely different debate and would fall into Toronto's extremely inefficient overall commute time.

Anyway, back to the topic (that I contributed to deviating from - I'm sorry!). I'm not renewing and it has nothing to do with transit. No direction/vision alone is enough to make anyone renew. Add in the high school dramas we've been experiencing since 2007 and it's hard to convince people to reconsider. Though I am waiting for that phone call from a ticket rep to convince me otherwise. I feel sorry for those guys the most. They're going to be treated worse than telemarketers.

[Auzzy]

Um, back on topic: Daniel Girard has an article about the TFC "No Fee" promotion on the Star website -- especially about the angry fan response on Facebook: http://www.thestar.com/sports/soccer/mls/article/1264206--toronto-fc-s-facebook-ticket-promotion-riles-season-ticket-holders

Good that the negative reaction is getting some press. Sadly, he has an error in the article: he said both the $8.50 per ticket fee, and the $5.25 per order fee were waived. I just checked again: they still want to charge you the $5.25 "Order Processing Fee." What an effin joke.

[tfcfan2011]

Just noticed Paul Beirne lurking in the renewal thread over on U-Sector's board. Generally speaking, I'd say he isn't playing to as tough a crowd over there....

I dont want to incite a riot, but isnt their capo on the TFC payroll? It certainly would explain the soft stance and pro-FO comments on twitter... strikes me as a 'conflict of interest', but hey, who am I to judge?

[tfcleeds]

I dont want to incite a riot, but isnt their capo on the TFC payroll? It certainly would explain the soft stance and pro-FO comments on twitter... strikes me as a 'conflict of interest', but hey, who am I to judge?

I don't know anything about that, and certainly won't speculate. In any event my comment wasn't meant as a slight against U-Sector in any way - just an observation that most of the people that posted on that thread certainly plan on renewing. Whereas many here are still undecided.

[PAOK17]

Um, back on topic: Daniel Girard has an article about the TFC "No Fee" promotion on the Star website -- especially about the angry fan response on Facebook: http://www.thestar.com/sports/soccer/mls/article/1264206--toronto-fc-s-facebook-ticket-promotion-riles-season-ticket-holders

Good that the negative reaction is getting some press. Sadly, he has an error in the article: he said both the $8.50 per ticket fee, and the $5.25 per order fee were waived. I just checked again: they still want to charge you the $5.25 "Order Processing Fee." What an effin joke.
For once someone in the media actually giving it to TFC. It's so strange that they haven't done any of this during the Mariner era.

Ha Bierne can empathize?

[Phil]

I dont want to incite a riot, but isnt their capo on the TFC payroll? It certainly would explain the soft stance and pro-FO comments on twitter... strikes me as a 'conflict of interest', but hey, who am I to judge?

His contract ended. No longer is he a part of TFC FO.

During the whole wear green campaign they remained loyal to TFC. Read deeper.

[tfcfan2011]

I don't know anything about that, and certainly won't speculate. In any event my comment wasn't meant as a slight against U-Sector in any way - just an observation that most of the people that posted on that thread certainly plan on renewing. Whereas many here are still undecided.

yes, not trying to associate you with my opinion sorry about that. just something i've possibly observed along the way...

[tfcfan2011]

His contract ended. No longer is he a part of TFC FO.

During the whole wear green campaign they remained loyal to TFC. Read deeper.

ah... so I am out to lunch... fair enough. ignore and continue on.

edit: wait, i just re-read that... yeah.

[Belfast_Boy]

please check this out

http://redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?32815-Let-s-send-a-message!

[ensco]

^Paul B says he has "empathy" for the season ticket holders.

Thank god. I feel better now.