Rate Mariner: August 2012

[__wowza]

PLEASE READ BEFORE RATING!
(it'll make everything a hell of a lot easier)

Each category gets a specific rating, from 5 (being the highest) to 1 (being the lowest). To calculate the average rating, just add your total up and divide by 5, if it's got a decimal point at the end of it, you can round either up or down based on the simple question "did Mariner perform up to your expectations for the month"? Afterward, you post your total rating on the poll, from 5 - 1. In addition to that, each game has a link to the official TFC recap in case you need a refresher of what went on. Here's the criteria:

TACTICS
how did you feel about the tactical choices made?
what about his starters? subs? formation?

RESULTS
at the end of the day, how did we do in terms of results? did we tie games we should've lost? lost games we should've won? etc.

EFFICIENCY
how effective was the coach in utilizing the players he has?
did he play some players out of position? did he have a reason to?

COMMUNICATION
how effective was the coach in explaining his outlook and choices in the paper / on torontofc.ca / on TFCtv / in post match interviews?

TRADES & MISC
were the trades made productive or counter-productive?
did he fly off the handle at get a 4 game ban?
was he making eyes at your wife/girlfriend/same-sex partner?


A general guideline: Its how you feel at the moment, not a final assessment. Like a marathon, this is just a snapshot of our support for the month. A low approval rating does not rate him as an overall failure, just like a high approval rating does not mean he's Sir Alex Ferguson. For the sake of context, this is how he / TFC have preformed in August:


LEAGUE PLAY
2 points out of a possible 15
10TH in the East -
19TH out of 19 overall -
GD: -3 (last months +1)

CCL PLAY
3 points out of a possible 6
2ND out of 3 Teams
GD: +2

(http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2012/06/toronto-cant-cope-kc)Toronto FC (http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2012/06/toronto-cant-cope-kc) v CD Aguila (http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2012/06/toronto-cant-cope-kc)
AUGUST 1st : WIN : 5-1

Chicago Fire v Toronto FC (http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2012/08/reds-suffer-difficult-chicago-defeat)
AUGUST 4th : LOSS : 2-1

(http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2012/08/tfc-trades-goals-timbers-draw)Toronto FC v Portland Timbers (http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2012/08/tfc-trades-goals-timbers-draw)
AUGUST 15th : TIE : 2-2

Toronto FC v Sporting KC (http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2012/08/reds-held-scoreless-home)
AUGUST 18th : LOSS : 0-1

Columbus Crew v Toronto FC (http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2012/08/toronto-falls-short-columbus)
AUGUST 22nd : LOSS : 2-1

(http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2012/08/toronto-snatches-away-point)Houston Dynamo v Toronto FC (http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2012/08/toronto-snatches-away-point)
AUGUST 25th : TIE : 1-1

Toronto FC v Santos Laguna (http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2012/08/breakdown-costs-toronto-ccl)
AUGUST 28th : LOSS : 3 - 1


*like always, if there's a category you think i missed please share!

[__wowza]

my apologies for missing last month folks, had a busy start of the month (cottage/wedding/another wedding).

[Wull]

I gave him a one. His lineups and subs are baffling, his signings have been piss poor to adequate at best, results are terrible and it's difficult to watch wave after wave of attack coming at us only to see us kick it back and watch them come again

[brad]

Voted 1 - only because there was no option for 0

TACTICS: He has us playing like a finely oiled part time 70's team from the UK. Long ball isn't going to work

RESULTS: Terrible. One win in all competitions, 2 out of 15 points. The win was against a team that is well below us and flew in on the day of the game. I do give some credit to the draw in Houston though. Tough place to play, and they were 22 games (or so) unbeaten at home. Draw was a good result there.

EFFICIENCY: Terrible. Benching Kocic for Mariner, odd subs for Hassli, players out of position.

COMMUNICATION: Terrible. Frings, our DP and captain goes back to Germany and it's swept under the rug? Calling players out, make flat out wrong statements about the teams quality of play. It goes on.

TRADES: Bad. Hassli on short term loan for a good draft pick - makes no sense when the season was more or less over.

[ryan]

TACTICS
how did you feel about the tactical choices made?
He doesn't understand tactics to even have choices. What tactics are there in a guy who tells the boys to "when in doubt, get it out". We're fucking PRO? REALLY?
what about his starters? subs? formation?
Terry D is a legend in his eyes, the whole Freddy Hall starting vs Santos fuckery, putting fullbacks at centre and vice versa, not making subs in matches when we should, skilled possession players are non existent to him....fuck I'll just stop here and give this section negative 8 starsbefore it gets too bad for him.

RESULTS
at the end of the day, how did we do in terms of results? did we tie games we should've lost? lost games we should've won? etc.
Well we beat a horrible team from Central America and got almost nothing in the rest of our games, but we're not very good so I'll be fair here. Negative 2 stars.

EFFICIENCY
how effective was the coach in utilizing the players he has?
He's not utilizing the players he has.
did he play some players out of position? did he have a reason to?
Yes and there is no reason to. Negative 4 stars here.

COMMUNICATION
how effective was the coach in explaining his outlook and choices in the paper / on torontofc.ca / on TFCtv / in post match interviews?
He's fucking speaking crazy. Everything he says is utter shit. Between Weedman being a god, us playing well in games where we don't even touch the ball. For fuck's sake I don't even want to remember it all. Negative 6 stars.

TRADES & MISC
were the trades made productive or counter-productive?
Hassli probably doesn't want to be here and will play the injured card till he can get out, no doubts here. Cost us a fucking 1st rounder for that. Well done dickhead.
did he fly off the handle at get a 4 game ban?
I wish he would get a ban, certainly fly's off the handle for 90 minutes every match. Negative 3 stars.


There needs to be a lower rating than 1 star, but that's the closest I can get to his Overall of Negative 4 stars (rounded up from Negative 4.6 because I'm a fuckin nice guy)

[Oldtimer]

Voted 1. I personally have known rep team/CSL coaches who would do better than him.

[Shakes McQueen]

This is just sadistic.

- Scott

[Ageroo]

UNO.......and not the card game.

[trane]

I gave him 2 just because this is TFC, its kind of the same old same old.

[Ageroo]

I gave him 2 just because this is TFC, its kind of the same old same old.

very true trane......it seems like every coach is basically destined for the same poor showing.......maybe one day. We can dream though.... :)

[trane]

^ I keep on dreaming, but the reality has been somewhat of a nightmare.

[Auzzy]

Don't worry folks, it's all cyclical, between shite & utter shite.

[__wowza]

I gave him 2 just because this is TFC, its kind of the same old same old.

i gave him a 2 as well, for the most part i agree with everything brad/ryan has said.
the only reason, and i mean the ONLY reason, this man gets a 2 is because we've had a tough schedule this month.

[TFC Tifoso]

Tactics.............fail
Results.............fail
Efficiency..........fail
Communication...fail
Trades & Misc....fail
Glasses.............epic fail
Pants...............still none.........

[bigredone]

24 votes for 1 star....Mariners motto - "All for One".

Harry Nilsson would be proud.

[jabbronies]

I gave him 1 star.

TACTICS
Booting the ball forward at the first sign of trouble is not a tactic, it's a last resort, and we seem to be using it far too often.
Ball possession is down. For those who don't think it's a big deal, this usually means we don't have the ball and are not in control of the game more often than not. Chasing the ball and hoping the offense losses control in order to attack is not a strong tactic.

RESULTS
Same old story. Too many lost points in the 85+ minute.
Out of the playoffs
Out of Champions League before we even hit Mexican soil.

EFFICIENCY
Terry Dunfield is one of the few players that seems to be benefiting from his coaching. I can't point to any other player who has benefited positively for both themselves and the team.
Frings effectiveness been diminished to scapegoat
Avila is less effective under Mariner
Eckersley is being used inefficientlyJeremy Hall...well...he can play hoof ball pretty well

COMMUNICATION
He's "Mo'ing" the place up. Lots of smoke and mirrors with his post game reviews of the game.


TRADES & MISC
Hassli trade was desperation. I don't like giving up a first round pick for an aging player who may not be here in a year. It's very "Maples Leafs" IMO.
Got rid of Soolsma - one of our most efficient ball movers on the wing and was literally games/days away from stepping up his game to that mature level this team currently lacks.
Botched the Olof Mellberg deal



As a side note: A lot of people were calling for immediate results at all costs. Mariner got 4 wins and all we had to give up was everything the clubs future stood for.

[JuliquE]

LAUL 1, unbedingt.

[__wowza]

TRADES & MISC
Botched the Olof Mellberg deal

oh fuck me. you just got me thinking..

we could've potentially had a back four that consisted of:
eckersley / o'dea / mellberg / morgan.


:facepalm:

[reggie]

oh fuck me. you just got me thinking..

we could've potentially had a back four that consisted of:
eckersley / o'dea / mellberg / morgan.


:facepalm:

that wouldnt look too bad,but the prob is that he would put mellberg at RB and ecks at CB:facepalm:

[Northern Soul]

I voted 2, only because of the tough schedule and injuries to an already thin squad.

[bigredone]

Since majority went with 1 star I am dying to know that if half star was an option would majority have given Mariner a half?

[West220Side]

"2 points out of possible 15" says it all. I'll give him what he gave us. Two points, when all he deserves is a one at best.

[narduch]

Since majority went with 1 star I am dying to know that if half star was an option would majority have given Mariner a half?

I would have voted zero if it was an option.

[Voodooman]

Agreed with others..it was an awful month to say the least

[ryan]

I would have voted zero if it was an option.

I stand by my negative 4.6 Stars if that's how we're playing it.

[boozilla]

Conceding all those late goals, reveals a lack of physical and mental fitness in the last 10 min.
A good coach should be able to mitigate this weakness through smart substitutions and tactical adjustments.
Without a Paul Winsper to keep them fit, Mariner's limitations are exposed.
He'd make a great rodeo clown.

[CoachGT]

Awful month. Poor results. Can't blame him for the injuries. Disappointed that we now appear to be in "reset" mode again, starting from scratch. What happened to "tweeking" the roster?

I'm rating him a 2, mainly because the coach gets way too much credit and way too much blame. I don't think Sir Alex could have done better with this lot and with the injuries we experienced. From a tactics standpoint, he is correct in saying that when you are under pressure in your own third, you need to get the ball out of the area. But that doesn't mean kick it out for a corner, nor does it mean give it away.

I think that the players need to shoulder a portion of this - fitness does appear to be a problem, as we've seen in prior years.

I'm not giving him flack for Mellberg, I think that was a problem at the league's end, but it'll be a long time before we know for sure. And O'Dea looks to be an okay acquisition - better than most made by his predecessors. I'll give him credit for Hassli - healthy, he'd be a good fit into this team, although I'm not sure that you want both him and Danny K. A hole appeared and he filled it quickly.

Scratch my head at some of the substitutions, but last game, I think the proof came out - he (rightly) has no faith in any of them to get the job done. The roster is just too thin.

2 for now. I just can't see this team going through the transition of another coach in such short order.

[Oldtimer]

One person voted 5 star (I knew T-Boy would show up sooner or later)!

95% voting one or two star is the lowest rating any TFC coach has received, by far.

[brad]

The late goals thing is a classic problem. The other team presses forward more near the end when they need a goal. We don't maintain possession - We give the ball straight back to them again and again. Eventually we tire and then conceed.

Same problem has plagued every TFC team. Want to stop the late goals - learn how to keep posession of the football when trying to kill a game off

[Super]

One person voted 5 star (I knew T-Boy would show up sooner or later)!

95% voting one or two star is the lowest rating any TFC coach has received, by far.

Good thing then that Anselmi gave Mariner his vote of confidence and the keys to our next season.

[ManUtd4ever]

Awful month. Poor results. Can't blame him for the injuries. Disappointed that we now appear to be in "reset" mode again, starting from scratch. What happened to "tweeking" the roster?

I'm rating him a 2, mainly because the coach gets way too much credit and way too much blame. I don't think Sir Alex could have done better with this lot and with the injuries we experienced. From a tactics standpoint, he is correct in saying that when you are under pressure in your own third, you need to get the ball out of the area. But that doesn't mean kick it out for a corner, nor does it mean give it away.

I think that the players need to shoulder a portion of this - fitness does appear to be a problem, as we've seen in prior years.

I'm not giving him flack for Mellberg, I think that was a problem at the league's end, but it'll be a long time before we know for sure. And O'Dea looks to be an okay acquisition - better than most made by his predecessors. I'll give him credit for Hassli - healthy, he'd be a good fit into this team, although I'm not sure that you want both him and Danny K. A hole appeared and he filled it quickly.

Scratch my head at some of the substitutions, but last game, I think the proof came out - he (rightly) has no faith in any of them to get the job done. The roster is just too thin.

2 for now. I just can't see this team going through the transition of another coach in such short order.

This.

[DaBandit]

Voted 1. I personally have known rep team/CSL coaches who would do better than him.

I honestly think there are a few guys on this board that have more knowledge of the game and would do a much better job.

PS. I rate him a zero even though it's not an option..

[DaBandit]

Conceding all those late goals, reveals a lack of physical and mental fitness in the last 10 min.
A good coach should be able to mitigate this weakness through smart substitutions and tactical adjustments.
Without a Paul Winsper to keep them fit, Mariner's limitations are exposed.
He'd make a great rodeo clown.

In fairness to Mariner this has always been an issue even when Winsper was here..

[ag futbol]

I don't care how fit your team is, when you are sub 30% possession for the game you will be gassed late in the match. There's being pragmatic and conceding some of the ball and then there's what we've been doing which is just not smart

[greatwhitenorf]

That Big Red Beezer he's sportin' sez he drinks a fair few, don't it? Another Mo Johnson, then?

[Rene Kingsriver]

That Big Red Beezer he's sportin' sez he drinks a fair few, don't it? Another Mo Johnson, then?

glad someone else has mentioned it, had suspicions of this myself

[prizby]

Conceding all those late goals, reveals a lack of physical and mental fitness in the last 10 min.
A good coach should be able to mitigate this weakness through smart substitutions and tactical adjustments.
Without a Paul Winsper to keep them fit, Mariner's limitations are exposed.
He'd make a great rodeo clown.

we had loads of injuries when Winsper was here



In fairness to Mariner this has always been an issue even when Winsper was here..

Winsper wasn't here when Mariner came

[CoachGT]

I don't care how fit your team is, when you are sub 30% possession for the game you will be gassed late in the match. There's being pragmatic and conceding some of the ball and then there's what we've been doing which is just not smart

I was thinking about it last game. If we had about 45% possession, we wouldn't be running around chasing as much and amazingly, I believe our results would improve.

[ryan]

I was thinking about it last game. If we had about 45% possession, we would be running around chasing as much and amazingly, I believe our results would improve.

I presume you mean 'wouldn't'?

And I agree. 29% possession and we're complaining about fitness? Well...duh.

[Ajax TFC]

I'm not giving him flack for Mellberg, I think that was a problem at the league's end, but it'll be a long time before we know for sure.
I don't believe for a second that this was the league's fault. TFC had one DP spot available and they used it to get Hassli instead of Melberg. If the league was involved in any way it was probably a case of TFC expecting to get allocation to sign him and the league not giving it to them.

And O'Dea looks to be an okay acquisition - better than most made by his predecessors.
This is true.

I'll give him credit for Hassli
he gave up a first round draft pick for a fucking DP - the type of player that he could have otherwise signed free of charge. Hassli is an inconsistent striker who scores some nice goals and gets suspensions and was available for free at the end of the season.

- healthy, he'd be a good fit into this team, although I'm not sure that you want both him and Danny K
he was injured already when we got him. you don't have to worry about him playing with Koevermans since his contract is up at the end of the season.

.
A hole appeared and he filled it quickly.
Has he really filled that hole?

We gave up a first round pick for half a season of an inconsistent striker, whereas we could have signed our own DP striker without giving up a first rounder, or we could have signed Mellberg, or we could have signed Nesta for less than DP wages

[CoachGT]

I presume you mean 'wouldn't'?

And I agree. 29% possession and we're complaining about fitness? Well...duh.


Correct - thanks for picking it up

[Pookie]

AjaxTFC - I share your sentiment on a number of things but I am now convinced that it was the league that nixed the Mellberg deal. I'm also convinced that unless they change their stance we will never have a DP CB.

I used to think that it was because of the DP slot but the info that I have indicated that the deal was nixed before Hassli. If TFC wanted Mellberg, they had to do it like Nesta. On a non-DP contract and using allocation money if available.

(Of the 53 DPs that have been approved by the league, only 1 was a defender and that was Marquez in a deal that has a number of angles to it with FC Barcelona and MLS interests)

[ryan]

Correct - thats for picking it up

I presume you mean 'thanks'?

No problem!

[Rene Kingsriver]

I don't want to spark another SG war but I'm amazed at the contrast between here and the U-Sector forum. They don't have a poll but based on various threads I think Mariner would be averaging 3 stars over there

[Fort York Redcoat]

I personally think Mariner stinks .. I go by results !!!!


This is a rating thread. Try using the OP to rate him.

Most people are frustrated with his results.

[bigredone]

Who gave him 5 stars? Whats the deal with that? Where have you been? When did he deserve it? Why did he deserve it?

Does Mariner have an account here?

[Oldtimer]

I don't want to spark another SG war but I'm amazed at the contrast between here and the U-Sector forum. They don't have a poll but based on various threads I think Mariner would be averaging 3 stars over there

U-Sector's site has a different demographic from the RPB site. They are much more inclined to give him time (not that they like the current results any more than we do). If you see PM stll at TFC with similar results in a year, the two results will converge to some extent.

I have friends in both groups and appreciate the unique differences (and the similarities) between them.

The RPB site also has many casual users who are not members of the group. That is much less the case with the U-Sector site. That also sways any result of any poll in the general area to more represent those of the average interested fan rather than the die-hard supporter.

[brad]

we had loads of injuries when Winsper was here

We also had turf instead of grass - which likely played a role in the injuries.

[Pookie]

I don't think anyone is interested in another coach. That said, keeping Mariner for the sake of not having another coach is ridiculous.

We didn't entertain a coaching search and his mandate (as evidenced by things like the Hassli trade) has been to win now. He has failed in that regard and without a proper search there is no evidence to suggest that he is the best available.

If there is to be a new TFC President to replace and then ultimately report to Anselmi (sigh), that person needs to have every flexibility to hire a coach he believes can implement his vision. Rallying around Mariner with a new leader in charge would make no sense. A new leader cannot be handcuffed to the past.

[Ajax TFC]

I don't think anyone is interested in another coach. That said, keeping Mariner for the sake of not having another coach is ridiculous.

We didn't entertain a coaching search and his mandate (as evidenced by things like the Hassli trade) has been to win now. He has failed in that regard and without a proper search there is no evidence to suggest that he is the best available.

If there is to be a new TFC President to replace and then ultimately report to Anselmi (sigh), that person needs to have every flexibility to hire a coach he believes can implement his vision. Rallying around Mariner with a new leader in charge would make no sense. A new leader cannot be handcuffed to the past.
Except that new TFC President will be Cockrane :(

[Pookie]

Except that new TFC President will be Cockrane :(

Stop reading my mind :)

I actually wrote those words but deleted them as I didn't want to jinx it.

[CoachGT]

I presume you mean 'thanks'?

No problem!

Damned auto correct on the cellphone!

[TFC07]

Where's zero star option?

[Suds]

I was thinking about it last game. If we had about 45% possession, we wouldn't be running around chasing as much and amazingly, I believe our results would improve.

Holy Crap! I JUST HAD AN EPIPHANY!!

It seems to me, that if your team has the ball it kind of makes it hard for the other team to score because they do not have the ball.

Did everyone else know this or is just new to Mariner and I?? :rolleyes:

[DaBandit]

we had loads of injuries when Winsper was here




Winsper wasn't here when Mariner came

i realize that, sorry if i wasn't clear. i was just trying to point out that late goals and injuries are something that has plagued this team long before mariner came aboard and was an issue even when we had winsper here.. :)

[Ajax TFC]

Holy Crap! I JUST HAD AN EPIPHANY!!

It seems to me, that if your team has the ball it kind of makes it hard for the other team to score because they do not have the ball.

Did everyone else know this or is just new to Mariner and I?? :rolleyes:
Just new to you. Mariner still doesn't know :facepalm:

[Nerepis]

Soulless, passionless football. Where is the joy, where is the love?