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View Full Version : Who should be the next head coach of TFC?



khso11
08-23-2012, 01:42 AM
Ok, I'm pretty sure that Mariner wouldn't be here any longer then this season or half of next (dispite the 3 year contract). So who should be our next head coach?

TFC_905
08-23-2012, 04:58 AM
Thomas Rongen

[NBF]
08-23-2012, 07:05 AM
Thomas Rongen

Self preservation is the norm around TFC, if any of these coaches like Brennan, Dichio, Bent understand that they should turn down any offers. I think Rongen will not budge or should budge from the security of the TFCA.

Now, if you want a reliable head coach/director of football you gotta look at Paul Peschisolido and his wife Karen Brady, but I think it would take alot of money to move an entire football family.

My second choice would be John Spencer who was let go by the Timbers. Hes the brother-in-law of Billy Davies of most recently Nottingham Forrest. So he has some good connections. Portland is nothing like Toronto so maybe he can bring in some talent from abroad.

jabbronies
08-23-2012, 07:13 AM
Can all of the football talk; this topic requires none of that.

Formations, tactics, player selection, club vision, basically anything that football requires from a manager shouldn't be discussed. You're wasting your time. The next manager of TFC should be willing to take the job for 6 months - year before he gets canned. As long as he can stomach that, I say hire him.

tfcmanu
08-23-2012, 07:52 AM
Tony Fonseca - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/António_Fonseca

http://www.canadasoccer.com/files/is/article/20110601_Fonseca_www.jpg
TFC should hire Tony at some capacity for the organization, Has experience with Canadian soccer and could tap into Portuguese soccer back home and would be a good fit.

Suds
08-23-2012, 07:56 AM
Whoever it is, not one single person who currently works in the TFC front office can be involved in the hiring process.

Pookie
08-23-2012, 07:59 AM
Ok, I'm pretty sure that Mariner wouldn't be here any longer then this season or half of next (dispite the 3 year contract). So who should be our next head coach?

Whomever the next President of the Club decides.

mdc 77
08-23-2012, 08:00 AM
John Spencer? I'd keep Mariner on if thats the case.

Caleb Porter or Carl Robinson. Coaching change needs to happen after a strong and experience president is hired. This needs to happen quickly from the new owners, then said president can put a plan in place for next season. This can't be a classic MLSE executive search that takes months and months. If bogers makes that happen from now till the end of the season then I'll be optimistic.

Fort York Redcoat
08-23-2012, 08:03 AM
Head coach experience in MLS or winning coach in CSL or NASL.

TOBOR !
08-23-2012, 08:15 AM
I just throw my hands up in the air.

Everything about this club is stupid and shit.

This is a conversation not even worth having because it'll be happening again within 2 years, mark my words.

__wowza
08-23-2012, 08:17 AM
if anselmi is still around: brennan.

/thread.

ryan
08-23-2012, 08:18 AM
Since TFC seems to be in the market for cheerleaders as coaches, why not Bobby Brasz.


In all seriousness, it really doesn't matter. No coach can survive with the political backstabbing that goes on in the FO. Mourinho would fail in TFC.

GuelphStorm2007
08-23-2012, 08:19 AM
Thomas Rongon

Pookie
08-23-2012, 08:43 AM
if anselmi is still around: brennan.

/thread.

My wife said the same thing this morning. Brennan and Bent.

I wrote about this before as Anselmi's last season ticket renewal hail mary. A media favourite, local lad, former Captain trying to turn around our club. Makes for a some positive headlines at a time when they are trying to sell hope.

For me, regardless of who it is... what difference is a new coach going to make if they don't have the resources to identify and bring in players? That falls on the VP/President to set budgets and approve plans. Without a new leader it is the same recipe.

iy12l
08-23-2012, 12:12 PM
Adrian Heath

Just look what this guy is doing with Orlando City SC. We can easily hook him up, but i think if Anselmi is still here he will probably hire Brennan lol.

Whoop
08-23-2012, 12:15 PM
John Molinaro just tweeted that he spoke with Anselmi.

Essentially Paul Mariner isn't going anywhere.

Of course not, he signed an extension back in the spring.

Molinaro, like Kurtis Larson, has been going on about giving Mariner time.

Richard
08-23-2012, 12:17 PM
John Molinaro just tweeted that he spoke with Anselmi.

Essentially Paul Mariner isn't going anywhere.

Of course not, he signed an extension back in the spring.

If true then the Bogers takeover is worrisome.

Edit: Nvm, what else is he going to say lol.

Suds
08-23-2012, 12:45 PM
Mariner not going anywhere any time soon so not much point in talking about the next coach.


John Molinaro ‏@JohnMolinaro (https://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro) So for those of you calling for Mariner to be fired and a new coach brought in either now or for start of next season, it won't happen.

Expand (https://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro/status/238685328364412929)
15m (https://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro/status/238684909865168896) https://si0.twimg.com/profile_images/2533043285/j9veg4fdlfuafn0z0wu2_normal.jpeg John Molinaro ‏@JohnMolinaro (https://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro)
... To stabilize team this season, bring in a few more players in off-season and let him really make the club his own next year.

Expand (https://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro/status/238684909865168896)
16m (https://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro/status/238684608282116096) https://si0.twimg.com/profile_images/2533043285/j9veg4fdlfuafn0z0wu2_normal.jpeg John Molinaro ‏@JohnMolinaro (https://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro)
Biggest thing I took away from our chat was Mariner is here to stay. They're pleased with direction he's taken team and will be given time..

Expand (https://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro/status/238684608282116096)
17m (https://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro/status/238684359136272384) https://si0.twimg.com/profile_images/2533043285/j9veg4fdlfuafn0z0wu2_normal.jpeg John Molinaro ‏@JohnMolinaro (https://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro)
... Order to get to know me and hear my take on things.

Expand (https://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro/status/238684359136272384)
18m (https://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro/status/238684199207460864) https://si0.twimg.com/profile_images/2533043285/j9veg4fdlfuafn0z0wu2_normal.jpeg John Molinaro ‏@JohnMolinaro (https://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro)
Just finished meeting with Anselmi. Didn't really interview him, it was more of a chat. Said he'd been meaning to invite me to lunch in...

Fort York Redcoat
08-23-2012, 12:47 PM
Adrian Heath

Just look what this guy is doing with Orlando City SC. We can easily hook him up, but i think if Anselmi is still here he will probably hire Brennan lol.

Not saying his team isn't doing well but I can't say that is all on him. There is a clandestine plan in effect there and money is no object.

Move PDL team from Austin to Orlando where
Host tournament for MLS to
Plan for MLS team in Orlando where

Disney

= Profit

EDIT: Just looked at Heath

So he followed the 3rd place Aztex from the PDL division in Austin to Orlando = Not bad, 3rd place but it's PDL and...

the previous year the Aztex finished 10th and were in the USL. What happened there? He joined the team the year previous in '08 when Austin was awarded an USL expansion team. Not THAT much experience.

If anything he'll stay with Orlando a year or two and see if they can be "promoted".


BUT

I like that we're looking down the pyramid for talented, winning coaches in NA!

golaso.gol
08-23-2012, 12:52 PM
John Molinaro just tweeted that he spoke with Anselmi.

Essentially Paul Mariner isn't going anywhere.

Of course not, he signed an extension back in the spring.

Molinaro, like Kurtis Larson, has been going on about giving Mariner time.

Did molinaro (or anyone else) expect Anselmi to say Mariner is gone already? If he needs to be removed, whether under contract/or not that can be done in off-season. Issue is if management decides to leave him in place only to fire him after another bad start to season (ie scapegoat to buy them more time) then this will be another off-season wasted with no direction/plan.

mdc 77
08-23-2012, 12:52 PM
Until the new owners come out and say everything is status quo then it doesn't matter what Anselmi, Mariner or any poster on this board says. We have no idea what they are thinking about doing with MLSE, let alone TFC.

Ultra & Proud
08-23-2012, 12:59 PM
Said it a few times but Mariner at least deserves the same amount of leeway and time Winter had (2 transfer windows at least instead of Winter's three). Mariner may be a lot of things but it isn't his fault that the entire squad can't string together more than 3 passes this season and couldn't even manage to do it even when Winter was here.

But I see him sticking this year and next and then stepping back from the side lines and letting Dichio or Brennan take over. My prediction anyways.

Fort York Redcoat
08-23-2012, 01:03 PM
Said it a few times but Mariner at least deserves the same amount of leeway and time Winter had (2 transfer windows at least instead of Winter's three). Mariner may be a lot of things but it isn't his fault that the entire squad can't string together more than 3 passes this season and couldn't even manage to do it even when Winter was here.

But I see him sticking this year and next and then stepping back from the side lines and letting Dichio or Brennan take over. My prediction anyways.

Whether Mariner, or the club came out and said it his appointment was for results NOW.

He gets till end of season and I'd like to see a recommitting to our plan from the start of the year with a management accountable for their actions for more than a year at a time and not looking up, down or side to side on who to blame.

golaso.gol
08-23-2012, 01:06 PM
My wife said the same thing this morning. Brennan and Bent.

I wrote about this before as Anselmi's last season ticket renewal hail mary. A media favourite, local lad, former Captain trying to turn around our club. Makes for a some positive headlines at a time when they are trying to sell hope.

For me, regardless of who it is... what difference is a new coach going to make if they don't have the resources to identify and bring in players? That falls on the VP/President to set budgets and approve plans. Without a new leader it is the same recipe.

Re: Brennan/Bent - not sure how giving the reigns to two individuals with no experience and know how to take on head coach role, especially of a club like TFC and the situation they find themselves in will help ticket sales. When will TFC finally get it right in terms of hiring the right guy and having the proper structure in place to provide pathway to future success?

Re: resources- one of the biggest challenges of not only TFC, but in general MLS. Scouting is basically non existent(both domestically and abroad) when it should be a very important component of the club. Has there been anyone accountable for this since TFC began?

Oldtimer
08-23-2012, 01:13 PM
Until the new owners come out and say everything is status quo then it doesn't matter what Anselmi, Mariner or any poster on this board says. We have no idea what they are thinking about doing with MLSE, let alone TFC.

This.

We don't know if Bell/Rogers is going to keep Anselmi. If Anselmi is gone, it doesn't matter what he thinks. His replacement will make the decision.

My choice for a Mariner replacement? Thomas Rongen, although he'd be crazy to take the job if Anselmi is still there.

Blizzard
08-23-2012, 01:34 PM
Adrian Heath

Just look what this guy is doing with Orlando City SC. We can easily hook him up, but i think if Anselmi is still here he will probably hire Brennan lol.

I've heard very good things about Adrian Heath.

We do need to hire a new president first though and it has to be someone with no previous link to MLSE. A recycled executive is not what this club needs.

Auzzy
08-23-2012, 01:34 PM
It's good of John Molinaro to get some quotes from Tom Anselmi. I still hope that someone asks Anselmi to confirm if Mariner got a 3-year extension this spring.

It's clear that Anselmi is starting a PR offensive. Much of what he says makes me sick to the stomach -- even independent of Mariner, Winter, and other recent shenanigans. Wouldn't be surprised if we get more chats between Anselmi (or others from the FO) with other journos.

It could be a PR offensive due to Anselmi trying to save his own job under new ownership. Obviously if Anselmi's future is unclear (at least in terms of TFC) then what he says about Mariner is pretty meaningless.

Unfortunately, I'm afraid it's just the start of a PR push leading to season ticket renewals. I can't imagine Anselmi starting chats with journalists, a day after ownership changed, if his current position wrt. TFC was at all in jeopardy.

WTF are they going to come up with for the SSH renewal push? Anselmi mentioned town halls to Molinaro, ha ha that's funny. Maybe bouncy castles? Chevril half-time shows? Dunk tank for the whole FO?

Blizzard
08-23-2012, 01:46 PM
Not saying his team isn't doing well but I can't say that is all on him. There is a clandestine plan in effect there and money is no object.

Move PDL team from Austin to Orlando where
Host tournament for MLS to
Plan for MLS team in Orlando where

Disney

= Profit

EDIT: Just looked at Heath

So he followed the 3rd place Aztex from the PDL division in Austin to Orlando = Not bad, 3rd place but it's PDL and...

the previous year the Aztex finished 10th and were in the USL. What happened there? He joined the team the year previous in '08. Not THAT much experience.

If anything he'll stay with Orlando a year or two and see if they can be "promoted".


BUT

I like that we're looking down the pyramid for talented, winning coaches in NA!

To complete the story, they finished in first place in both 2011 and 2012 and won the play-off championship in 2011.

Orlando and Rochester are in the semi-finals awaiting the results of the two quarter final series to be played this weekend.

Ya, it's only USL Pro but what better way for a coach to learn his craft. Aron Winter would have benefited from coaching at that level before taking on the MLS challenge. Of course, he probably thought tha MLS was the place for him to learn his craft before heading back to Europe.

Fort York Redcoat
08-23-2012, 02:00 PM
To complete the story, they finished in first place in both 2011 and 2012 and won the play-off championship in 2011.

Orlando and Rochester are in the semi-finals awaiting the results of the two quarter final series to be played this weekend.

Ya, it's only USL Pro but what better way for a coach to learn his craft. Aron Winter would have benefited from coaching at that level before taking on the MLS challenge. Of course, he probably thought tha MLS was the place for him to learn his craft before heading back to Europe.


Cool! Thanks Blizz! Forgot they'd already be in playoffs in USL.

No, don't get me wrong I want us to look to successful experience in USL/NASL. The only glitch for me was when the team went down to PDL. I realize that's not the coaches fault and has to do with $$$ in NA not relegation. I'd look to USL/NASL for talent but PDL is a stretch for me. That's all.

Blizzard
08-23-2012, 02:32 PM
Cool! Thanks Blizz! Forgot they'd already be in playoffs in USL.

No, don't get me wrong I want us to look to successful experience in USL/NASL. The only glitch for me was when the team went down to PDL. I realize that's not the coaches fault and has to do with $$$ in NA not relegation. I'd look to USL/NASL for talent but PDL is a stretch for me. That's all.

They aren't in the PDL, they are in USL Pro, one level above that and one level below NASL.

While it might be a bit of gamble to go for a coach who has been working at the USL Pro level, is it really much below the level of NASL? Not really.

Will ownership take the club up to NASL now is my question. I think they should. They want an MLS franchise for Orlando and have a decent average crowd base of over 5k per match. Take them up a level!

Fort York Redcoat
08-23-2012, 02:49 PM
They aren't in the PDL, they are in USL Pro, one level above that and one level below NASL.

While it might be a bit of gamble to go for a coach who has been working at the USL Pro level, is it really much below the level of NASL? Not really.

Will ownership take the club up to NASL now is my question. I think they should. They want an MLS franchise for Orlando and have a decent average crowd base of over 5k per match. Take them up a level!

Holy Crap following this game here is like trying to grab eels.

Yes, my mistake was when they got 3rd place in 2010 it was in the USSF D2 which is better than PDL. I can't wait till they find a league name and structure to agree on!

My question would be if they even need to go up a level to apply for MLS? Probably not legally and I know it would be sensible but it's not really mandatory to go through a promotion so..

I mean isn't NASL just the haves trying to distance themselves from have nots? I like the fact there's some distinction in level of play of money involved but they've GOT to grow that NASL level quick. It's like a CFL there.

Pookie
08-23-2012, 04:01 PM
Holy Crap following this game here is like trying to grab eels.



I'm not an expert Eel Grabber but the ones that I've seen at the Aquariums hang out in the rocks and generally don't move. Sort of like the sloths of the sea. Now perhaps they have some kind of hidden "stealth gear" but I'm pretty sure that with my nearly 40 year old dexterity, I could grab one of them without much fuss. Even after a couple of Innis and Gunns, I'll bet that I could grab one of those stationary ones... even wrassle one if I had to.

How many eels are you grabbing anyways?

SoccMan
08-23-2012, 04:34 PM
It does not matter until everyone involved with TFC from the receptionist to Anselmi is gone. Clean house in the front office, and yes you included MR. Paul Bernie, everybody fired, bring some fresh people and start again. This is a hopeless situation right now, a new coach only after all of the present staff is gone. TFC right now is one of the worst pro sports organization in North America in all of sports!

Fort York Redcoat
08-23-2012, 04:52 PM
I'm not an expert Eel Grabber but the ones that I've seen at the Aquariums hang out in the rocks and generally don't move. Sort of like the sloths of the sea. Now perhaps they have some kind of hidden "stealth gear" but I'm pretty sure that with my nearly 40 year old dexterity, I could grab one of them without much fuss. Even after a couple of Innis and Gunns, I'll bet that I could grab one of those stationary ones... even wrassle one if I had to.

How many eels are you grabbing anyways?

About a dozen? One for every name change of the league? Maybe I'm doing it with too much Innis and Gunn?

g:D

Great now i'm thirsty. Good taste btw.

Anyway, we should all try and keep up with the lower leagues to try and grow the game. No matter what congers get in the way.

Blizzard
08-23-2012, 05:35 PM
I'm not an expert Eel Grabber but the ones that I've seen at the Aquariums hang out in the rocks and generally don't move. Sort of like the sloths of the sea. Now perhaps they have some kind of hidden "stealth gear" but I'm pretty sure that with my nearly 40 year old dexterity, I could grab one of them without much fuss. Even after a couple of Innis and Gunns, I'll bet that I could grab one of those stationary ones... even wrassle one if I had to.

How many eels are you grabbing anyways?

This is getting tooo Fruedian. :blush:

Gazza
08-23-2012, 05:47 PM
;1522829']Self preservation is the norm around TFC, if any of these coaches like Brennan, Dichio, Bent understand that they should turn down any offers. I think Rongen will not budge or should budge from the security of the TFCA.

Now, if you want a reliable head coach/director of football you gotta look at Paul Peschisolido and his wife Karen Brady, but I think it would take alot of money to move an entire football family.

My second choice would be John Spencer who was let go by the Timbers. Hes the brother-in-law of Billy Davies of most recently Nottingham Forrest. So he has some good connections. Portland is nothing like Toronto so maybe he can bring in some talent from abroad.

The Brady's have a Muskoka summer home.

nonc
08-23-2012, 06:07 PM
Mariner not going anywhere any time soon so not much point in talking about the next coach.


John Molinaro ‏@JohnMolinaro (https://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro) So for those of you calling for Mariner to be fired and a new coach brought in either now or for start of next season, it won't happen.

Expand (https://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro/status/238685328364412929)
15m (https://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro/status/238684909865168896) https://si0.twimg.com/profile_images/2533043285/j9veg4fdlfuafn0z0wu2_normal.jpeg John Molinaro ‏@JohnMolinaro (https://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro)
... To stabilize team this season, bring in a few more players in off-season and let him really make the club his own next year.

Expand (https://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro/status/238684909865168896)
16m (https://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro/status/238684608282116096) https://si0.twimg.com/profile_images/2533043285/j9veg4fdlfuafn0z0wu2_normal.jpeg John Molinaro ‏@JohnMolinaro (https://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro)
Biggest thing I took away from our chat was Mariner is here to stay. They're pleased with direction he's taken team and will be given time..

Expand (https://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro/status/238684608282116096)
17m (https://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro/status/238684359136272384) https://si0.twimg.com/profile_images/2533043285/j9veg4fdlfuafn0z0wu2_normal.jpeg John Molinaro ‏@JohnMolinaro (https://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro)
... Order to get to know me and hear my take on things.

Expand (https://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro/status/238684359136272384)
18m (https://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro/status/238684199207460864) https://si0.twimg.com/profile_images/2533043285/j9veg4fdlfuafn0z0wu2_normal.jpeg John Molinaro ‏@JohnMolinaro (https://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro)
Just finished meeting with Anselmi. Didn't really interview him, it was more of a chat. Said he'd been meaning to invite me to lunch in...

Anselmi admits to not knowing anything about soccer, so i'm not sure why he'd even bother humouring us with comments like "we're pleased with the direction he's taking the team."



John Molinaro just tweeted that he spoke with Anselmi.

Essentially Paul Mariner isn't going anywhere.

Of course not, he signed an extension back in the spring.

Molinaro, like Kurtis Larson, has been going on about giving Mariner time.

his extension wouldn't have been for Head Coach though i don't think? i'm pretty sure they could just demote him into oblivion and he could either take it or walk, that seems ideal but unrealistic.

OgtheDim
08-23-2012, 06:14 PM
Pesch and Brady would cost as much per year as JDG. That and we need a pres who knows MLS>

PopePouri
08-23-2012, 06:41 PM
Mariner.

spe18
08-23-2012, 06:41 PM
What about Sir Alex Ferguson? :D

Soccer Mom
08-23-2012, 07:36 PM
I think we should look for proven talent. Maybe like a Rafa Benitez who is umemployed.

Canary10
08-24-2012, 08:21 AM
"They're pleased with direction he's taken team and will be given time.."

This is the quote that pisses me off more than anything else. Anselmi said at my town hall last year they like the direction the team is going, are really committed to the possession game, they're going to give Winter the time to pull it off, blah, blah, blah. Either that was a complete bald faced lie to the fans or he really is so clueless as to not know the current direction is complete a complete 180 from what they said last year. No one should trust a single word that comes out of his mouth. By the way, I wouldn't be surprised if he legitimately doesn't know he's done a complete about-face. More reason he shouldn't be near the team.

v00d00daddy
08-24-2012, 09:58 AM
"They're pleased with direction he's taken team and will be given time.."

This is the quote that pisses me off more than anything else. Anselmi said at my town hall last year they like the direction the team is going, are really committed to the possession game, they're going to give Winter the time to pull it off, blah, blah, blah. Either that was a complete bald faced lie to the fans or he really is so clueless as to not know the current direction is complete a complete 180 from what they said last year. No one should trust a single word that comes out of his mouth. By the way, I wouldn't be surprised if he legitimately doesn't know he's done a complete about-face. More reason he shouldn't be near the team.


They know exactly what they've said in the past and they know that their actions are the complete opposite of what they said they'd do. (by they I mean Anselmi and Mariner)

Anselmi is no fool. The only fools are us for trying to concoct reasons to explain away out and out lies.

It's one thing to argue about tactics and player selection but to try and argue in favour of men who say one thing and do the complete opposite is tantamount to asking to be kicked in the balls and then saying "please sir may I have some more"

Mariner should be very worried about JMOs Convo with Anselmi because all the utter bullshit that he fed molinaro seems eerily similar to what Anselmi said about Winter. (happy about direction of the club...he's not going anywhere)

Canary10
08-24-2012, 10:21 AM
They know exactly what they've said in the past and they know that their actions are the complete opposite of what they said they'd do. (by they I mean Anselmi and Mariner)

Anselmi is no fool. The only fools are us for trying to concoct reasons to explain away out and out lies.

It's one thing to argue about tactics and player selection but to try and argue in favour of men who say one thing and do the complete opposite is tantamount to asking to be kicked in the balls and then saying "please sir may I have some more"

Mariner should be very worried about JMOs Convo with Anselmi because all the utter bullshit that he fed molinaro seems eerily similar to what Anselmi said about Winter. (happy about direction of the club...he's not going anywhere)

I'm not sure I give him that much credit....

At any rate, we were clearly fed a total lie and he's doing the same now. I agree, Mariner ought to be worried. I actually digitally taped my town hall, I'm going to go back and see if I can find Anselmi saying this.

London
08-24-2012, 10:36 AM
i guess improving on 1 win is an improvment

T-boy
08-24-2012, 11:03 AM
"They're pleased with direction he's taken team and will be given time.."

This is the quote that pisses me off more than anything else. Anselmi said at my town hall last year they like the direction the team is going, are really committed to the possession game, they're going to give Winter the time to pull it off, blah, blah, blah. Either that was a complete bald faced lie to the fans or he really is so clueless as to not know the current direction is complete a complete 180 from what they said last year. No one should trust a single word that comes out of his mouth. By the way, I wouldn't be surprised if he legitimately doesn't know he's done a complete about-face. More reason he shouldn't be near the team.

I don't see where he's lieing, actually! Last season we WERE going in the right direction under Winter. The team WERE improving and the play WAS improving. So, at the town hall, he definitely wasn't lieing! But then Winter and his team took a massive step backwards and lost 9 league games in a row and created a league record low! That is where you lose faith, and I don't blame Anselmi.

And then right now, Mariner HAS had a positive affect on results. It may OR may not be a "new coach bump". But at this moment, there is no reason not to give Mariner time to see what he can do. I'm SURE that if Mariner's team lost all the remaining games this season, Anselmi would probably then change again, and it would be rightfully so. But if Mariner gets some positive results the rest of the season, there is no reason in the world not to keep him to next season and give him a whole off season to see what he can do.

Canary10
08-24-2012, 11:19 AM
I don't see where he's lieing, actually! Last season we WERE going in the right direction under Winter. The team WERE improving and the play WAS improving. So, at the town hall, he definitely wasn't lieing! But then Winter and his team took a massive step backwards and lost 9 league games in a row and created a league record low! That is where you lose faith, and I don't blame Anselmi.

And then right now, Mariner HAS had a positive affect on results. It may OR may not be a "new coach bump". But at this moment, there is no reason not to give Mariner time to see what he can do. I'm SURE that if Mariner's team lost all the remaining games this season, Anselmi would probably then change again, and it would be rightfully so. But if Mariner gets some positive results the rest of the season, there is no reason in the world not to keep him to next season and give him a whole off season to see what he can do.

I think it may have been the "we're really committed to the possession game part."

As Groucho Marx once said, "those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others."

v00d00daddy
08-24-2012, 01:27 PM
I don't see where he's lieing, actually! Last season we WERE going in the right direction under Winter. The team WERE improving and the play WAS improving. So, at the town hall, he definitely wasn't lieing! But then Winter and his team took a massive step backwards and lost 9 league games in a row and created a league record low! That is where you lose faith, and I don't blame Anselmi.

And then right now, Mariner HAS had a positive affect on results. It may OR may not be a "new coach bump". But at this moment, there is no reason not to give Mariner time to see what he can do. I'm SURE that if Mariner's team lost all the remaining games this season, Anselmi would probably then change again, and it would be rightfully so. But if Mariner gets some positive results the rest of the season, there is no reason in the world not to keep him to next season and give him a whole off season to see what he can do.

Out if curiosity...how do you feel about Mariner receiving a contract extension in May and then "helping out the strikers" during practice while Winter was still coach?

Also...what part of the teams failure under Winter do you think Mariner contributed to and do you think he too should have been let go?

Dreadlocks
08-24-2012, 01:32 PM
Since the thread is about who should take over from Mariner IF he was let go, what about Harry Sinkgraven at FC Edmonton?

I don't think he's proven enough and can't build a case for him so I'm just throwing it out there.

Fort York Redcoat
08-24-2012, 01:55 PM
there is no reason in the world not to keep him to next season and give him a whole off season to see what he can do.

He was brought in for immediate improvement. It's up to you if you can quantify his improvement as enough. I daresay you'd be alone to say he has.

Why give him time when he was part of the problem this year. I'd give someone with a vision time. He could still make an improvement on this teams record. That much I'll give him.

Gazza
08-24-2012, 02:00 PM
I think we should look for proven talent. Maybe like a Rafa Benitez who is umemployed.


Fact.

T-boy
08-24-2012, 02:32 PM
Out if curiosity...how do you feel about Mariner receiving a contract extension in May and then "helping out the strikers" during practice while Winter was still coach?

Also...what part of the teams failure under Winter do you think Mariner contributed to and do you think he too should have been let go?

Honestly - there's a lot of information we don't know about this. I can't really speculate. I don't think any of us here can. Mariner's contract may have been renewed for multiply reason's: money, type of contract, clauses in his contract, wording of contract. Lots of reason's why somebody's contract could be extended and changed.
And secondly we also don't really know Mariner's EXACT role under Winter. We "assume" he was asked to find players, and found the ones we all acquired. But we don't know that for sure. We don't know if Winter was actually medling. Or Mariner. Or Cochrane, or anybody else.


He was brought in for immediate improvement. It's up to you if you can quantify his improvement as enough. I daresay you'd be alone to say he has.

Why give him time when he was part of the problem this year. I'd give someone with a vision time. He could still make an improvement on this teams record. That much I'll give him.

Mariner was clearly brought in to change around results of a team that just broke an all time record low for the league. He HAS clearly got better results. It remains to be seen if it is just a "new coach bump" or whether he can have longer term success. TFC have not had good results in the last 5 games, but then again, we played Houston (unbeaten in 8 games prior to playing us), away at Chicago and Columbus (away games are always difficult in the MLS), and home games against Portland (with half our first team squad missing) and against top of the table Kansas. I would suggest that the majority of managers would struggle to get many points out of those games!

Personally, I would take substance over style for TFC right now (results over good looking football). I never "bought into" the Winter 4-3-3 Ajax system and never thought it would work in the MLS. So, I don't particularly care that Mariner has changed to a basic style of football - if the results are positive, they could play Preki style for all I care! When I was watching Oxford for years and years - and they were freefalling through the divisions - they had a new manager called Ian Atkins. The guy was a knob, and they played VERY defensive football. Everybody complained to start with - but is his first season he got into the play-offs (highest finish for Oxford in YEARS). Everybody loved Atkins just cos of the results. As TFC have NEVER had success, I would take a season of success playing Mariner-ball than a season struggling to adapt to a pretty style of play. I may be the only one to see it that way, but I will always give my opinion, even if nobody else agrees.

Wull
08-24-2012, 06:32 PM
He was brought in for immediate improvement. It's up to you if you can quantify his improvement as enough. I daresay you'd be alone to say he has.

Why give him time when he was part of the problem this year. I'd give someone with a vision time. He could still make an improvement on this teams record. That much I'll give him.

This ^^^^

and I think it's time we, as a group, decided on a position to be taken regarding it. I dont care about meetings with the front office and wringing concessions for the supporters groups from them, I'd rather save my club before they completely kill it

Rene Kingsriver
08-26-2012, 01:32 PM
I was willing to give Mariner a chance but in my experience a coach's touchline appearance and behaviour say a lot about them. Frankly Mariner looks a mess, Paul you're not going to get a game you don't need to be in shorts. His constant shouting of instructions and ridiculous antics are so embarrassing when you look at the likes of say Martin Rennie or Jessie Marsch who just look so much more calm, authoritative and downright classy. Obviously a coach needs to be animated at time during a game but not cartoonishly so. Having said all that he's still an improvement on Winter but that is feint praise indeed.
Anyway next coach? has to be someone with absolutely no British connections, I say this because there is so much baggage associated with being an English coach amongst TFC's non-Anglo fans that they won't get any benefit of the doubt whatsoever.

Cashcleaner
08-27-2012, 02:15 AM
Said it a few times but Mariner at least deserves the same amount of leeway and time Winter had (2 transfer windows at least instead of Winter's three). Mariner may be a lot of things but it isn't his fault that the entire squad can't string together more than 3 passes this season and couldn't even manage to do it even when Winter was here.

But I see him sticking this year and next and then stepping back from the side lines and letting Dichio or Brennan take over. My prediction anyways.

Yep, I agree. Between Mariner and Winter, Mariner is the superior manager and deserves a similar time span to right things with the club. In all honesty, I don't know if it will work out, but we have to give him a fair chance to do so.

*sigh* There's just...there's just so much wrong with this club. I don't even know if anything can get turned around right now.

Oldtimer
08-27-2012, 07:37 AM
Mariner was clearly brought in to change around results of a team that just broke an all time record low for the league. He HAS clearly got better results.

Yeah, he got better results than the worst results in the world. Still behind Portland, last place in MLS, about to get creamed in the CCL, no real prospects for improving enough to make the playoffs, dubious player selections, terrible strategy (like put on an extra defender when you are losing to defend the loss?), a lost dressing room (Mariner complains that the players don't listen to his strategy). Let's just be a little realistic here, his record is not going to be significantly better next year even if Bell/Rogers leave Anselmi and him in place instead of a thorough housecleaning like needs to be done.

In the meantime Thomas Rongen, an MLS Cup winning coach, who did wonders with American Samoa is always available and already under contract, and should already be coaching this team, but is left doing wonders with the academy instead of doing wonders with the first team.

nonc
08-27-2012, 07:40 AM
I'm not a real proponent of Mariner, though I've kinda resigned myself to him being around next year. Can't see a change being made. There is an endless amount of criticism I could dictate towards him but it's been said in one form or another before. I just hope the 'positive' quotient increases...stuff like Lambe locked up at 60k/4 years, O'Dea signing, shoving minutes down Silva's throat.

Ultimately, my biggest desire is to see TFC sign even more Academy players for the bench. It saturates your starting XI and key subs with more of the budget and thus more talent. How can team directors around MLS complain about the cap with 80-90k (and higher) bench warmers everywhere. Signing Academy on the cheap and having them train with pros and play in the ever-improving reserve game system is win-win.

There is a difference between squad depth and squad parity. TFC have a history of squad parity on level with mediocrity, to put it kindly.

ryan
08-27-2012, 08:44 AM
He was brought in for immediate improvement. It's up to you if you can quantify his improvement as enough. I daresay you'd be alone to say he has.

Why give him time when he was part of the problem this year. I'd give someone with a vision time. He could still make an improvement on this teams record. That much I'll give him.

Further to this, I believe this immediate improvement was for ticket sales, not footballing reasons. Making this hire even bloody worse.

I strongly believe he backstabbed Winter throughout the whole process, I'm a firm believer in the phrase "when there's smoke, there's fire" and MLSE is a freakin coal factory when it comes to smoke fumes. I wouldn't want this guy in charge, much like I don't want that Brennan on the bench either.

Neither one of these guys strike me as men of integrity and class, which I think are key requirements for the manager who can lead us from this disaster.

Of course any manager is dead to rights until all front office management is incinerated, but enough's been said about that. I think the OP is a terrible question, there's no manager that can survive under these circumstances.

Canary10
08-27-2012, 08:54 AM
Meanwhile, unfortunately, rumour is Caleb Porter is going to Portland. He would be amongst my top choices to lead TFC.

TOBOR !
08-27-2012, 09:08 AM
I was willing to give Mariner a chance but in my experience a coach's touchline appearance and behaviour say a lot about them. Frankly Mariner looks a mess, Paul you're not going to get a game you don't need to be in shorts. His constant shouting of instructions and ridiculous antics are so embarrassing when you look at the likes of say Martin Rennie or Jessie Marsch who just look so much more calm, authoritative and downright classy. Obviously a coach needs to be animated at time during a game but not cartoonishly so. Having said all that he's still an improvement on Winter but that is feint praise indeed.
Anyway next coach? has to be someone with absolutely no British connections, I say this because there is so much baggage associated with being an English coach amongst TFC's non-Anglo fans that they won't get any benefit of the doubt whatsoever.

The demeanor of a coach during a game is telling.

During the week you train, run drills, and prepare for the upcoming match.

On gameday, you watch it unfold, and make 'tweaks' as required.

Sit back, take notes, make adjustments as required, address any issues afterwards.

This man is a fool.

reggie
08-27-2012, 09:28 AM
i will not renew if PM is running this club next season,frankly his antics on the sidelines are embarrassing.

Yohan
08-27-2012, 09:34 AM
i will not renew if PM is running this club next season,frankly his antics on the sidelines are embarrassing.
I'd understand if you don't renew because you think Mariner is a crap coach, but because he's eccentric? because he doesn't fit the typical mould of a manager?

reggie
08-27-2012, 09:50 AM
i wasnt going renew anyway..i dont like the style of play and the direction this club is going at the top and the manager,eccentric is one thing,he is jus a clown.

v00d00daddy
08-27-2012, 10:11 AM
I'd understand if you don't renew because you think Mariner is a crap coach, but because he's eccentric? because he doesn't fit the typical mould of a manager?

Oh he fits the mold of a manager...unfortunately his tactics, player selection and sideline behaviour make me believe he's a a house league manager. Lol

When a coach yells loud enough to hear him clearly on tv and physically mimics what he wants his players to do (ie the patented Mariner long throw herky jerky throw in motion) it's embarrassing.

Even winning every game he would look like a buffoon. But playing as poorly as we are and as unattractive as it is...it makes him look much worse than a buffoon. Lol

Yagbod
08-27-2012, 10:13 AM
I love his antics on the sidelines. Much better than standing stoicly like you don't care at all.

I am not sure of his tactics though. Too many players played out of their natural position.

Super
08-27-2012, 10:14 AM
I'll definitely renew, but I think if I had to pay more than south-end cost I'd likely drop out. The quality and the overall experience of following TFC has become a depressing chore, quite frankly. Every off-season I have hope for better, but I must admit that even the hope will be gone if Mariner stays on as manager. I've missed more games in this 6th season than I did in 1-5 total, and I don't know how I would react to another failed season.

TFC Tifoso
08-27-2012, 10:37 AM
The demeanor of a coach during a game is telling.

During the week you train, run drills, and prepare for the upcoming match.

On gameday, you watch it unfold, and make 'tweaks' as required.

Sit back, take notes, make adjustments as required, address any issues afterwards.

This man is a fool.

exactly!!....this bozo is out there carrying on like he is giving the players tactics for the first time......

I wonder how many still think that it was Winter's system which was too complicated, when it seems like the players - players who Mariner acquired, by and large during his time here by the way - can't even get wins under Mariner's kick and run......get this guy outta here.......the whole lot of them.......gotta keep De Klerk though.......he's a dude.......

invictusTFC
08-27-2012, 10:46 AM
Mariner is just the latest in what has been a myriad of shitty, useless or lame duck coaches thanks to MLSE. Mariner has very little tactical acumen and we are beginning to see this game in and game out (flashback to the days of MoJo). Carver, Cummins and Preki never really had the horses to take this team anywhere. Winter had a plan, but had no clue how to implement it in any effective way. 4-3-3 is great if you have the right mix of players which TFC never did (plus you need to play defense and not concede goals which was a concept that Winter struggled to comprehend). I think next to Mo, Mariner will be the worst manager yet. MLSE has managed to create a culture of losing and losers in the short history of this club. Somer very good players have made it here over the years only to be consumed by this pervasive and isidious atmosphere. It is trully sad to see what this team has become especially with the feaverish support it had in those first few seasons. The only way to fix it is to purge those at the very top of the TFC hierarchy who have presided over this mess from the very beginning.

Oldtimer
08-27-2012, 11:20 AM
Now look at who Portland are trying to sign, Caleb Porter.

He's an NCAA coach who has coached the US U-23's. Guess what, to get them out of the dumper, they are hiring a coach who plays a possession-based game.

http://www.oregonlive.com/timbers/index.ssf/2012/08/caleb_porter_next_head_coach_o.html

He's been trying to move up to MLS for some time, the Fire interviewed him a while back. For some reason, TFC didn't take him.

Canary10
08-27-2012, 11:25 AM
Now look at who Portland are trying to sign, Caleb Porter.

He's an NCAA coach who has coached the US U-23's. Guess what, to get them out of the dumper, they are hiring a coach who plays a possession-based game.

http://www.oregonlive.com/timbers/index.ssf/2012/08/caleb_porter_next_head_coach_o.html

He's been trying to move up to MLS for some time, the Fire interviewed him a while back. For some reason, TFC didn't take him.

Yeah, I posted that above. He's been my preferred guy since before Winter was fired. We were idiots for not going after him at about game 5 of the losing streak.

Oldtimer
08-27-2012, 11:34 AM
Yeah, I posted that above. He's been my preferred guy since before Winter was fired. We were idiots for not going after him at about game 5 of the losing streak.

If you're not going to get an established MLS Coach (and honestly, who would ever want to come here?), a top NCAA Coach is often a good bet.

Having someone who coaches a possession game might mean some tweaking from the Dutch style, but not a total re-write to hoofball.

Canary10
08-27-2012, 11:51 AM
I really believe we should hire an American-based coach who plays a possession game. I don't think we (by "we" I mean TFC) are steeped enough in American football to really know and identify talent, and that's where the bulk of MLS players come from. Also think an American coach is better positioned than Winter was to understand where the league is in terms of transitioning to a more skilled, tactical game.

T-boy
08-27-2012, 12:23 PM
Agree canary - but who would this coach be? I don't think I can name one that is available that we could get.

Canary10
08-27-2012, 12:37 PM
Agree canary - but who would this coach be? I don't think I can name one that is available that we could get.

Well Caleb Porter would be at the top of my list. Sonny Silooy might be another one (currently assistant at DC United). There are a few NCAA programs playing and teaching possession football. Any of those coaches might be worth it. Anyone in the USMNT chain might be worth a shot too, as that's what they are playing.

Are any "availablable." Not an effing clue. I can't think Toronto's reputation is too high in coaching circles at the moment so who knows who would actually want to come here. Might need to see Anselmi out of the picture first.

Section 117
08-27-2012, 12:42 PM
Agree canary - but who would this coach be? I don't think I can name one that is available that we could get.

The point is it is not our job to figure out who is available to implement or maintain what Winter started with a possession based attacking style of play. Bottom line is if TFC wants to continue what Klinsman and Winter attempted to bring in and our academy plays that way, those are the characteristics which we need in a coach period. The understanding of attacking football and the stupid rules that MLS has. If the coach does not have the understanding of the MLS bring in someone who will not try and steal his job and undermine him at every oppurtunity.

I have had coaches like Mariner all emotional and ranting and raving on the sidelines and you know what it gets old quickly especially when the results stop coming as they have in the past 6 games. Mariner's trade for Hassil and moves he has made reek of trying to get short term results with no vision or commitment to the future.

I hope they toss his ass at the end of the year and I don't ever want to see him again. His tactics or lack there of reek of desperation and stuck in a game that went out of style 30 years ago. I guess people are starting to come to a realization why he or Nichol were never offered another job in the MLS, cause their tactics were only good for MLS v1.0

trane
08-27-2012, 12:59 PM
Mariner not going anywhere any time soon so not much point in talking about the next coach.


John Molinaro ‏@JohnMolinaro (https://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro) So for those of you calling for Mariner to be fired and a new coach brought in either now or for start of next season, it won't happen.

Expand (https://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro/status/238685328364412929)
15m (https://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro/status/238684909865168896) https://si0.twimg.com/profile_images/2533043285/j9veg4fdlfuafn0z0wu2_normal.jpeg John Molinaro ‏@JohnMolinaro (https://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro)
... To stabilize team this season, bring in a few more players in off-season and let him really make the club his own next year.

Expand (https://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro/status/238684909865168896)
16m (https://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro/status/238684608282116096) https://si0.twimg.com/profile_images/2533043285/j9veg4fdlfuafn0z0wu2_normal.jpeg John Molinaro ‏@JohnMolinaro (https://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro)
Biggest thing I took away from our chat was Mariner is here to stay. They're pleased with direction he's taken team and will be given time..

Expand (https://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro/status/238684608282116096)
17m (https://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro/status/238684359136272384) https://si0.twimg.com/profile_images/2533043285/j9veg4fdlfuafn0z0wu2_normal.jpeg John Molinaro ‏@JohnMolinaro (https://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro)
... Order to get to know me and hear my take on things.

Expand (https://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro/status/238684359136272384)
18m (https://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro/status/238684199207460864) https://si0.twimg.com/profile_images/2533043285/j9veg4fdlfuafn0z0wu2_normal.jpeg John Molinaro ‏@JohnMolinaro (https://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro)
Just finished meeting with Anselmi. Didn't really interview him, it was more of a chat. Said he'd been meaning to invite me to lunch in...

Anselmi prooving once again that he knows shit all about football. The most he should say about Mariner is that he will be assessed at the end of the season, anything more is bullshit. If we keep on the road we are on if Mariner starts the season, it is likely that he will not finish it, meaning that we just lost season 7.

brad
08-27-2012, 07:47 PM
If they did sign him to a 3 year extension - turfing him will mean yet another payout.

You can bet that is factoring into Anselmi's reasoning here.

Canary10
08-28-2012, 01:05 PM
Portland will be announcing their new head coach tomorrow apparently. Owner said the rumours are wrong. I guess we'll see tomorrow if it's Caleb Porter.

Blowing Bubbles
08-29-2012, 07:07 PM
I only have a 1/2 season ticket but if Mariner returns next year I'm 100% not renewing. Have gifted the last 2 matches anyway, I frankly have no desire to watch his style of play and tactics combined with bizarre player personnel decisions. There isn't anything to look forward to right now, not even watching a bunch of academy kids play out the string.

narduch
08-29-2012, 09:00 PM
Portland will be announcing their new head coach tomorrow apparently. Owner said the rumours are wrong. I guess we'll see tomorrow if it's Caleb Porter.

Its now official:

http://www.portlandtimbers.com/news/2012/08/timbers-name-caleb-porter-head-coach-2013-season

Pookie
08-29-2012, 09:06 PM
Well Caleb Porter would be at the top of my list. Sonny Silooy might be another one (currently assistant at DC United). There are a few NCAA programs playing and teaching possession football. Any of those coaches might be worth it. Anyone in the USMNT chain might be worth a shot too, as that's what they are playing.

Are any "availablable." Not an effing clue. I can't think Toronto's reputation is too high in coaching circles at the moment so who knows who would actually want to come here. Might need to see Anselmi out of the picture first.

Interestingly, DC United have modeled their player development after Ajax.

I love that folks are finally talking about the importance of understanding the US influence on our ability to be competitive.

Pookie
08-29-2012, 09:10 PM
Mariner not going anywhere any time soon so not much point in talking about the next coach.


John Molinaro ‏@JohnMolinaro (https://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro) So for those of you calling for Mariner to be fired and a new coach brought in either now or for start of next season, it won't happen.

Expand (https://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro/status/238685328364412929)
15m (https://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro/status/238684909865168896) https://si0.twimg.com/profile_images/2533043285/j9veg4fdlfuafn0z0wu2_normal.jpeg John Molinaro ‏@JohnMolinaro (https://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro)
... To stabilize team this season, bring in a few more players in off-season and let him really make the club his own next year.

Expand (https://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro/status/238684909865168896)
16m (https://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro/status/238684608282116096) https://si0.twimg.com/profile_images/2533043285/j9veg4fdlfuafn0z0wu2_normal.jpeg John Molinaro ‏@JohnMolinaro (https://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro)
Biggest thing I took away from our chat was Mariner is here to stay. They're pleased with direction he's taken team and will be given time..

Expand (https://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro/status/238684608282116096)
17m (https://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro/status/238684359136272384) https://si0.twimg.com/profile_images/2533043285/j9veg4fdlfuafn0z0wu2_normal.jpeg John Molinaro ‏@JohnMolinaro (https://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro)
... Order to get to know me and hear my take on things.

Expand (https://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro/status/238684359136272384)
18m (https://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro/status/238684199207460864) https://si0.twimg.com/profile_images/2533043285/j9veg4fdlfuafn0z0wu2_normal.jpeg John Molinaro ‏@JohnMolinaro (https://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro)
Just finished meeting with Anselmi. Didn't really interview him, it was more of a chat. Said he'd been meaning to invite me to lunch in...


It's funny, I have an email from Anselmi from the end of 2011 in which he basically says the same thing about Aron Winter.

Suds
08-29-2012, 09:10 PM
Its now official:

http://www.portlandtimbers.com/news/2012/08/timbers-name-caleb-porter-head-coach-2013-season

Lot's of hope around Porter. He's proven himself at the NCAA level and there is no doubt he can churn out MLS prospects. It will be interesting to see his transition to coaching in the MLS.

Fort York Redcoat
08-30-2012, 06:18 AM
Well Caleb Porter would be at the top of my list. Sonny Silooy might be another one (currently assistant at DC United). There are a few NCAA programs playing and teaching possession football. Any of those coaches might be worth it. Anyone in the USMNT chain might be worth a shot too, as that's what they are playing.

Are any "availablable." Not an effing clue. I can't think Toronto's reputation is too high in coaching circles at the moment so who knows who would actually want to come here. Might need to see Anselmi out of the picture first.


Interestingly, DC United have modeled their player development after Ajax.

I love that folks are finally talking about the importance of understanding the US influence on our ability to be competitive.


That's not proper football! ;)

Availability of the Orlando coach we mentioned elsewhere? Adrian Heath.

Canary10
08-30-2012, 08:34 AM
Interestingly, DC United have modeled their player development after Ajax.

I love that folks are finally talking about the importance of understanding the US influence on our ability to be competitive.

Sonny Silooy might be a TFC head coach candidate now that Caleb Porter is out. He's the assistant coach at DC and has been deeply involved in setting up their academy for people that don't know him.

maxpower
08-30-2012, 09:11 AM
Fucking hell. I can't believe we didn't offer the job to Porter. Although I doubt he would have come -he turned down DC 2 years ago When they really wanted him.


But either Adrian Heath or any big name MLS coach (Schmidt, Arena, Yallop, Vermees) would be my choice. although again, Unless we are willing to pay top dollar it's highly unlikely we will be luring away any top coaching talent, and even then...


Oh, and for our next president/ General manager, my choice would have to be Peter Wilt. He is exactly the type of guy that we need right now.

http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/35747/the-designated-player-the-curious-case-of-peter-wilt

Fort York Redcoat
08-30-2012, 09:18 AM
But either Adrian Heath or any big name MLS coach (Schmidt, Arena, Yallop, Vermees) would be my choice. although again, Unless we are willing to pay top dollar it's highly unlikely we will be luring away any top coaching talent, and even then...

Can't see Arena here. You can cross Yallop off while MLSE are here.

Detroit_TFC
08-30-2012, 10:27 AM
Clearly it's not the particular coach that is the problem, it's coaches in general. This team should be run as a workers' collective. Forward to the Fulfillment of the 5 Year Goal Production Plan!

[NBF]
08-30-2012, 10:58 AM
Man there's just too many similarities here to justify keeping this bozo. The post match interview with the busted glasses just makes this seem a bit disfunctional. Glasses get broken but his interview is very mo johnston beer glasses-like. IDK, if anyone has seen this movie:

JQANbc7nPjY

Pookie
08-30-2012, 03:23 PM
Sonny Silooy might be a TFC head coach candidate now that Caleb Porter is out. He's the assistant coach at DC and has been deeply involved in setting up their academy for people that don't know him.

In my opinion, to bring in an "Ajax" friendly coach, you'd need to gut the "pragmatic MLS crew" and I'm not sure it would happen.

Remember that when Mariner earned his 3 year extension, weeks before Winter was actually fired, they moved de Klerk out and Brennan in. Currently, "Ajax minded thinkers" occupy the Academy and de Klerk's contract looks to expire at the end of the season. The first team management, including the office support from Cochrane, would all need to be removed for a person like Silooy to have a fighting chance.

Shakes McQueen
08-30-2012, 06:13 PM
Better question to ask would be - who wants the job?

- Scott

ensco
08-30-2012, 06:36 PM
^Anyone who doesn't have one. No one who does.

What else is new?

Shakes McQueen
08-30-2012, 06:43 PM
I think anyone without a job, but with prospects for one, would also steer clear of TFC - a franchise with a history of burning through coaches/GMs quickly, and with no proven foundation in place. We've yet to have a manager last two full seasons - I don't think any person looking for their first job wants to potentially hurt their "big chance" by walking into that environment, nor does a "big name" manager want to tie themselves to that legacy.

- Scott

jimiv
08-30-2012, 07:01 PM
I really don't think it's the coach that needs to be replaced every year (or less) just get someone who knows football to replace Anselmi. Give him a budget to do what he wants, and have him choose a new head coach not.

Honestly, The instability of this team is more embarrassing than the modern dance recital by PM on the sidelines.

ensco
08-30-2012, 07:14 PM
I think anyone without a job, but with prospects for one, would also steer clear

- Scott

Can you give me an example of someone in this situation? I have no idea who this would be

Shakes McQueen
08-30-2012, 07:38 PM
Can you give me an example of someone in this situation? I have no idea who this would be

Every year, in every sport, there are coaches and managers fired, or out of contract, who are widely expected to land somewhere else.

So someone just desperate for a job might take TFC's offer, but someone out of a job but with actual suitors for a new one, would steer clear. I couldn't name any names off the top of my head, simply because the "market" for soccer coaches essentially spans the entire globe.

- Scott

Super
08-30-2012, 08:08 PM
MLSE has enough money. TFC is dying. They desperately need a proper, experienced head coach to turn around this sinking ship. You can get ANY coach out there if you're willing to pay big bucks. I remember reading that TFC paid Preki around a million bucks a year.

nonc
08-30-2012, 08:25 PM
while Mariner was getting a 3-year extension for no reason, our dream coach Ange Postecoglou was getting a 3-year deal of his own.

Suds
08-30-2012, 08:30 PM
check out the poscast by De Vos and Wileman from today. De Vos talks about what he thinks TFC need to fix the problems they are having.

http://iphone.tsn.ca/tsnpodcasts/TSNFC_083012.mp3

It's basically what many of us have been saying. We need an experienced football person as president or technical director. Someone between TommyA and the Manager. He also shares a story about someone who is a very experienced person from a well known club who would take such a role at TFC. The point being, there are good people out there who think there is a great opportunity to build something in Toronto. MLSE/TFC would have no shortage of good candidates to choose from - if the money and opportunity were right.

ensco
08-30-2012, 09:28 PM
Every year, in every sport, there are coaches and managers fired, or out of contract, who are widely expected to land somewhere else.

So someone just desperate for a job might take TFC's offer, but someone out of a job but with actual suitors for a new one, would steer clear. I couldn't name any names off the top of my head, simply because the "market" for soccer coaches essentially spans the entire globe.

- Scott

I guess, the only guy I could think of might be Preki when he came here, but I doubt it, I don't think there was that much interest in him. It's a theoretical construct that doesn't happen in reality, in a minor league where specific local rules limit the number of candidates. Caleb Porter had a job. Frank Yallop, when he was supposedly approached by MLSE in 2006, had a job.

Who are we talking about now? Peter Nowak or John Spencer?

Shakes McQueen
08-30-2012, 10:37 PM
I guess, the only guy I could think of might be Preki when he came here, but I doubt it, I don't think there was that much interest in him. It's a theoretical construct that doesn't happen in reality, in a minor league where specific local rules limit the number of candidates. Caleb Porter had a job. Frank Yallop, when he was supposedly approached by MLSE in 2006, had a job.

Who are we talking about now? Peter Nowak or John Spencer?

But what I mean is - if you're a highly respected candidate for a coaching or GM job, why would you want to throw your lot in with our team right now? Especially if it's your first gig? Our history is only filled with guys who lasted around one season, then had to go back to lesser gigs, or none at all. We are where managing careers and aspirations go to die (at least so far).

Unless we are willing to overpay to an astronomical degree, I don't see how we attract anything other than the desperate ones, which are not what we need.

- Scott

ag futbol
08-31-2012, 03:04 AM
But what I mean is - if you're a highly respected candidate for a coaching or GM job, why would you want to throw your lot in with our team right now? Especially if it's your first gig? Our history is only filled with guys who lasted around one season, then had to go back to lesser gigs, or none at all. We are where managing careers and aspirations go to die (at least so far).

I agree, overpaying is one way to do it... Another is to allow the person to bring more of their own staff, that's something that often gets negotiated in more big-time leagues.

Might be a good chip for us to use, considering we all have our doubts about the various characters around the TFC FO.

There are still plenty of soft terms that can be negotiated as well. Goals and other such things. I think that's been a problem in the past, especially where they are probably saying one thing publicly and another privately. Our memories aren't as short as the marketing department might hope..

gate7
08-31-2012, 11:28 PM
I just throw my hands up in the air.

Everything about this club is stupid and shit.

This is a conversation not even worth having because it'll be happening again within 2 years, mark my words.



less than 2yrs and we both know it! ..I love football, and the idea of pro-soccer in Toronto but TFC = horse shit

Soccer Mom
09-01-2012, 10:02 AM
less than 2yrs and we both know it! ..I love football, and the idea of pro-soccer in Toronto but TFC = horse shit

"Part-time supporter clap clap clap clap clap"

bigredone
09-01-2012, 10:15 AM
B. van M. :facepalm:

TFC07
09-01-2012, 10:38 AM
Now look at who Portland are trying to sign, Caleb Porter.

He's an NCAA coach who has coached the US U-23's. Guess what, to get them out of the dumper, they are hiring a coach who plays a possession-based game.

http://www.oregonlive.com/timbers/index.ssf/2012/08/caleb_porter_next_head_coach_o.html

He's been trying to move up to MLS for some time, the Fire interviewed him a while back. For some reason, TFC didn't take him.

Caleb Porter? Didn't get outcoached by Tony Fonseca and failed to qualify for Olympics?

I would rather hire Tony Fonseca (nice to have a Canadian manager for once).

Mark in Ottawa
09-01-2012, 04:58 PM
Time to dust off "the five year plan"??? .... again?

gate7
09-01-2012, 11:59 PM
"Part-time supporter clap clap clap clap clap"

I'm more of a loser for being ssh since day one.. of the first 200 to reserve season seats long before Beckham was rumored to play in the MLS. We once
had 11 seats. Down to 2 this season. looks like 0 for next year...

gate7
09-02-2012, 12:09 AM
fire Mariner. Dichio as interm. clean house in off season. new coaching staff bye bye Koev, frings, ekersley.

bigredone
09-02-2012, 10:48 AM
I'm more of a loser for being ssh since day one.. of the first 200 to reserve season seats long before Beckham was rumored to play in the MLS. We once
had 11 seats. Down to 2 this season. looks like 0 for next year...


Well said rebuttal!

nfitz
09-02-2012, 02:12 PM
fire Mariner. Dichio as interm. That's the oddest idea I've ever heard! Mariner only just took over. I don't think anyone would advocate firing him before he's even had a chance. He's done reasonably well with what he's had. Why would we even want to consider getting rid of him at this stage.

It's going to be a long winter, if the incessant whining is going to start already.

azorean19
09-02-2012, 02:27 PM
That's the oddest idea I've ever heard! Mariner only just took over. I don't think anyone would advocate firing him before he's even had a chance. He's done reasonably well with what he's had. Why would we even want to consider getting rid of him at this stage.

It's going to be a long winter, if the incessant whining is going to start already.

Huh???...hahha, I get it, sarcasm. FIRE his ass, what a baffoon ! and the fact that he is a sneaky lying bastard does'nt help....LOL

JuliquE
09-02-2012, 02:55 PM
That's the oddest idea I've ever heard! Mariner only just took over. I don't think anyone would advocate firing him before he's even had a chance. He's done reasonably well with what he's had. Why would we even want to consider getting rid of him at this stage.

It's going to be a long winter, if the incessant whining is going to start already.
http://www.eastbaypen.org/sites/eastbaypen.org/files/forum/illustrations/underrock.gif

MG42
09-02-2012, 03:04 PM
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6b/Sigi_Schmid.jpg

asterix606
09-02-2012, 03:09 PM
It takes a special man to be a TFC coach!

Word is this guy will be out of the psy hospital in a few months. Could be our guy!

http://img.escapade.co.uk/SALEHIRE/Medium/49369.jpg

azorean19
09-02-2012, 03:10 PM
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6b/Sigi_Schmid.jpg


great choice, but what would it take? Don't see him leaving. maybe another early exit from the playoffs?

[NBF]
09-02-2012, 04:19 PM
Here's two names of unemployed managers if money is not a problem:

John Toshack, formerly of Real Madrid CF, Catania, Wales, and so on, this guys been around. He would be the guy to just throw the keys to and say build me a quality team.

Walter Smith, formerly of Glasgow Rangers, Scotland, its not a bad idea. It wouldnt hurt to have him be a consultant.

Super
09-02-2012, 04:59 PM
;1525628']Here's two names of unemployed managers if money is not a problem:

John Toshack, formerly of Real Madrid CF, Catania, Wales, and so on, this guys been around. He would be the guy to just throw the keys to and say build me a quality team.

Walter Smith, formerly of Glasgow Rangers, Scotland, its not a bad idea. It wouldnt hurt to have him be a consultant.

Fine coaches. But I bet there's a ton of guys out there. I'd take most coaches from the Danish league - they're all massively experienced. Same can be said about Swedish, Norwegian, Dutch, Polish, whatever. Tons of coaches with lots of experience being at the top of the game. And I bet you we wouldn't have to pay them much more than we did Preki (at around 900k per year). It really shouldn't be that hard to find a solid coach with 3+ years at the top somewhere out there.

ag futbol
09-02-2012, 06:05 PM
;1525628']Here's two names of unemployed managers if money is not a problem:

John Toshack, formerly of Real Madrid CF, Catania, Wales, and so on, this guys been around. He would be the guy to just throw the keys to and say build me a quality team.

Walter Smith, formerly of Glasgow Rangers, Scotland, its not a bad idea. It wouldnt hurt to have him be a consultant.
Great names and they’d probably be good managers for someone, but for us I think it sounds a lot like we’d be hiring an F1 driver to get behind the wheel of our Taxi. I’d be very hesitant on anyone who doesn’t have experience in North America or at the very least managing a league that is resource constrained. Very different culture here and the foreign coach graveyard for MLS is vast. Seems like a lot of guys feel like they can break the system as opposed to learn it, and it just ends badly.

For the manager, I’d like to see someone who’s tactically astute and good at handling the day-to-day issues of the North American player. Has to know how they operate, what their level of motivation is and the type of off-field issues they deal with. Should be pragmatic when it comes to contract terms, but seeks to keep people happy wherever possible (doesn’t bench players based on contract talks *cough*).

Overall, the management team needs to be able to do the things I listed above plus have the ability to scout talent. NCAA without question, and but also give us a window into Central / South America. We continue to lag in these markets without good reason.

ensco
09-02-2012, 07:20 PM
Disagree strongly with names like Toshack and Smith. Obviously they have top credentials. But no more MLS rookies here. We have been the most arrogant and ignorant franchise in MLS. That has to stop.

Canary10
09-02-2012, 11:59 PM
Disagree strongly with names like Toshack and Smith. Obviously they have top credentials. But no more MLS rookies here. We have been the most arrogant and ignorant franchise in MLS. That has to stop.

Dom Kinnear. He can coach any which way. There is no one more adaptable in the league.

TFC07
09-03-2012, 01:34 PM
Disagree strongly with names like Toshack and Smith. Obviously they have top credentials. But no more MLS rookies here. We have been the most arrogant and ignorant franchise in MLS. That has to stop.

Perki was an experience MLS coach and look how that turn out?

What TFC needs an experience soccer coach (North American or not) who had success with limited resources (this is important because of MLS salary cap limited teams to spend to buy/sign players).

But right now, we need a soccer president first before talking about GM, coaches and players so we know what type of coach we need to play type of soccer we want to play.

nfitz
09-03-2012, 03:34 PM
Huh???...hahha, I get it, sarcasm. FIRE his ass, what a baffoon ! and the fact that he is a sneaky lying bastard does'nt help....LOLNot sarcastic at all. I haven't been following the board as much lately ... but I'm suprised anyone here would suggest firing a coach who's only just started.

It just seems like an extremely dumb idea. We need some stability here, not tossing the coach out, because they've only got a 50% record.

jloome
09-03-2012, 03:37 PM
Not sarcastic at all. I haven't been following the board as much lately ... but I'm suprised anyone here would suggest firing a coach who's only just started.

It just seems like an extremely dumb idea. We need some stability here, not tossing the coach out, because they've only got a 50% record.

They haven't won in six. And before engaging in lengthy thread, perhaps the better thing to do would be to read the pages, and pages, and pages, and pages, of comments over the last three weeks about why everyone wants him gone. The reasons are numerous.

nfitz
09-03-2012, 03:44 PM
They haven't won in six. And before engaging in lengthy thread, perhaps the better thing to do would be to read the pages, and pages, and pages, and pages, of comments over the last three weeks about why everyone wants him gone. The reasons are numerous.The reasons are so numerous that you can't actually name them! LOL. Haven't won in seven I believe ... and likely going to be 8, given how many international players we are missing going into Chicago. And with 3 DPs on the injured list (what was the last team to have 3 DPs on the injured list ... has that ever happened before).

It's just plain a dumb idea, and will only guarantee that 2013 will be yet another bottom of the table year. I'm not going to sit and read multiple threads of incessant bitching by the same people who always bitch here about absolutely anything, bitching yet again ... it's the same old "Toronto until they lose" attitude all over again.

Auzzy
09-03-2012, 03:52 PM
Well if you don't want to read what other people have to say, why don't you just zip it & stay away?

nfitz
09-03-2012, 04:22 PM
Well if you don't want to read what other people have to say, why don't you just zip it & stay away?Why don't those that whinge, whine, and say they won't come to games any more, won't stay away ...

I'm quite willing to listen to an coherent, simple, argument about why Mariner should be replaced (and presumably Anselmi kept ...). I'm not willing to dig through drivel, or read painfully long posts, which haven't been edited into a coherent thought.

tfc2008
09-03-2012, 04:29 PM
Guys nobody listend to your guys,this Toronto you forgot.

Richard
09-03-2012, 04:41 PM
Why don't those that whinge, whine, and say they won't come to games any more, won't stay away ...

I'm quite willing to listen to an coherent, simple, argument about why Mariner should be replaced (and presumably Anselmi kept ...). I'm not willing to dig through drivel, or read painfully long posts, which haven't been edited into a coherent thought.

That is pretty insulting, there are many posters on this board who post well thought out coherent arguments. You should perhaps take the time and actually exert some effort into reading these instead of bitching about noone posting an argument in response to you.

How about you giving a well thought out argument for Mariner staying to start with.

narduch
09-03-2012, 04:45 PM
How about you giving a well thought out argument for Mariner staying to start with.

Agreed.

And if the only reason is stability, that is the most bullshit of all reasons.

If you have the wrong guy in charge, keeping him in place for the sake of stability is a massive mistake. He will only set you back even further.

TFC needs to be completing an exhaustive search for the next management team. The quicker they can put new management in place the quicker TFC can start to improve.

Mariner is destroying this team further. He needs to be stopped.

Couchy81
09-03-2012, 04:56 PM
Agreed.

And if the only reason is stability, that is the most bullshit of all reasons.

If you have the wrong guy in charge, keeping him in place for the sake of stability is a massive mistake. He will only set you back even further.

TFC needs to be completing an exhaustive search for the next management team. The quicker they can put new management in place the quicker TFC can start to improve.

Mariner is destroying this team further. He needs to be stopped.


To further add to this, the reason people are so upset with Mariner is because Winter had actually improved the playstyle of the team if not the record. There was stability in the roster with the exception of some solid CB's. Now due to the change in playstyle, and philosophy, we are at ground zero. There is no stability. We are losing, and losing looking like a bunch of losers. Remember the RSL game away? That team tried to win and almost pulled it off. Haven't seen effort like that under Mariner yet. It's an out of control spiral right now.

Benficachop20
09-03-2012, 04:56 PM
That is pretty insulting, there are many posters on this board who post well thought out coherent arguments. You should perhaps take the time and actually exert some effort into reading these instead of bitching about noone posting an argument in response to you.

How about you giving a well thought out argument for Mariner staying to start with.

the problem is that he can't think of any reason lol.

jazzy
09-03-2012, 05:10 PM
Agreed.

And if the only reason is stability, that is the most bullshit of all reasons.

If you have the wrong guy in charge, keeping him in place for the sake of stability is a massive mistake. He will only set you back even further.

TFC needs to be completing an exhaustive search for the next management team. The quicker they can put new management in place the quicker TFC can start to improve.

Mariner is destroying this team further. He needs to be stopped.

^this seems to be it...I for one have to idea what the future holds for TFC......and next year NO hope whatsoever.....sports franchises have to at least have hope.......All common sense seems to have disappeared. And will it get better? ..not necessarily.....look at the leafs...I at least understood what Winter had in mind successful or not.....It now just seems like personal grudge match with Mariner.....and Mr.Anselmi .......it's all about his personal rise and riches....so as mentioned the necessity is to clean up; top thru bottom....

v00d00daddy
09-03-2012, 05:38 PM
That is pretty insulting, there are many posters on this board who post well thought out coherent arguments. You should perhaps take the time and actually exert some effort into reading these instead of bitching about noone posting an argument in response to you.

How about you giving a well thought out argument for Mariner staying to start with.

1. Poor Coaching

He plays guys out of position
He plays an archaic brand of football that asks so little from his players that they literally are learning nothing (Doneil Henry and Ashtone Morgan)
His system is so simple that it's been figured out and when you give teams 60% of the ball, more often than not they're gonna burn you.
He doesn't use substitutions properly and sometimes not at all.

2. Poor Player Selection

He can't find a mix of grinders and technical players and leaves some guys rotting on the bench while other (who some believe shouldn't even play) play a lot and often start.
He traded a DP (JDG) which was a good thing to free up space, only to pick up another DP in a trade. A guy that is injured and inconsistent (Hassli) and not well suited to the type of game Mariner wants to play with long balls launched up to a lone strikers head.

3. Poor Results.

5 wins. 8 losses. 6 ties (in all competitions)
Winless in 7. Last win was against Aguila on Aug. 1st.
Still at the bottom of the table. Just where we were when he came on. All but eliminated from the CCL.

4. He's a liar.

Told us, flat out, that he would only make minor tweaks and then proceeded to change everything, including players, formations and tactics.

5. He (in his own words) is a players coach but is showing that he isn't.

Kocic plays all season and just when the last meaningful game of the season is upon us, he sits him and starts a guy with no experience in MLS or CCL. Classy move
Frings is named captain, is asked to play as a sweeper, is asked to mentor the young players....and Mariner singles him out and calls him out in a press conference (with the help of his minion Larsson). Next game Frings is not with the team and Mariner explains it by saying that Frings is in Germany getting treatment for a season ending hip injury that he managed to play on for 90 minutes in the previous game. Darren O'Dea is named captain after a handful of games with the team. Classy.

6. He's not new to TFC and shouldn't be afforded the same amount of time that a new hire gets.

He's been here for 2 years and was originally tasked to bring in players to help this team succeed. Failed at that.
Failed while being GM and is now failing as coach.

7. (this one is just my opinion and speculation) He's a snake.

He was hired two years ago to help this team succeed by bringing in players for the new philosophy which he presumably bought into upon being hired. It's obvious that his views on the game were the complete opposite of the style of play that was announced to the supporters when he and Winter and Co. were hired. So why accept the job in the first place if you're not going to buy in and do your best? If he did do his best, then he sucks at his job.

Then....in May it is announced that he's going to go down on to the training pitch to "help with the strikers" LOL
Shortly thereafter Winter parts ways with TFC....Mariner is PROMOTED....and Jim Brennan is named assistant, while BDK is sent down to the academy. (He'll be gone real soon too)

Then we hear that Mariner signed a 3 year extension BEFORE Winter was fired. It's not confirmed but Molinaro sits down with Anselmi for lunch and we're told that Mariner isn't going anywhere anytime soon. Safe to say that the contract talk has legs.

So....it leaves some questioning just how hard Mariner worked to help Winter and Co. succeed, and what his motives were, are, and will continue to be?

So there you have my reasons. Not my reasons to fire him...because at this point I don't give a shit if they fire him. While he's around I won't be around. Not as a season ticket holder at least.

I tried to keep it somewhat short cause I know you don't want to sift through painfully long posts but there are just too many reasons to support my argument.

Rene Kingsriver
09-03-2012, 05:50 PM
To further add to this, the reason people are so upset with Mariner is because Winter had actually improved the playstyle of the team if not the record. There was stability in the roster with the exception of some solid CB's. Now due to the change in playstyle, and philosophy, we are at ground zero. There is no stability. We are losing, and losing looking like a bunch of losers. Remember the RSL game away? That team tried to win and almost pulled it off. Haven't seen effort like that under Mariner yet. It's an out of control spiral right now.

Why is it that people find it so hard to accept the fact that maybe both Winter AND Mariner are shit coaches and neither of them should've been given the job

v00d00daddy
09-03-2012, 06:00 PM
Why is it that people find it so hard to accept the fact that maybe both Winter AND Mariner are shit coaches and neither of them should've been given the job

I don't think you'll find too many people disagreeing with the idea that they're both failures.

For me it's much less to do with getting rid of Winter the coach and much more to do with getting rid of what Winter (and others) were trying to do.

Add to that the fact that they kept a part of the problem in Mariner AND that I despise his type of football and it's easy for me to give up my season seats.

asterix606
09-03-2012, 06:03 PM
Completly agree with v00d00!

On a side note. Here are the two dumbest financial moves that anyone could do right now.

1. Buying Facebook shares.
2. Renewing TFC season tickets.

Lennon
09-03-2012, 07:08 PM
Guys, I found our man!

Co Adriaanse (https://scoreboardjournalism.wordpress.com/2012/08/28/why-scoreboard-journalism-the-background/)


Honours



1986: Promoted to the Eredivisie (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eredivisie) with PEC Zwolle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PEC_Zwolle);
1989: Promoted to the Eredivisie with FC Den Haag (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FC_Den_Haag);
2004: Winner of the Rinus Michels Award (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rinus_Michels_Award) (for best Dutch coach of the year) with AZ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AZ_(football_club));
2006: Winner of the Portuguese Liga (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portuguese_Liga) with Porto (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FC_Porto);
2006: Winner of the Portuguese Cup (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portuguese_Cup) with Porto (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FC_Porto);
2006: Manager of the year in Portugal with Porto.
2009: Winner of the Austrian Football Bundesliga (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austrian_Football_Bundesliga) with Red Bull Salzburg.
2011: Winner of the Johan Cruijff Shield (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johan_Cruijff-schaal_XVI) with FC Twente (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FC_Twente).


Tactical approach

Adriaanse gained a lot of fame in the Netherlands after qualifying for the Champions League with the average Dutch club Willem II (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willem_II_Tilburg). It was even more impressive, because Willem II often played attacking football. Throughout his whole manager career he always stuck to playing attacking football. His game approach is in many ways similar to that of Louis van Gaal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_van_Gaal), who eventually succeeded him at AZ.

Training

Adriaanse is famous for his controversial training approach. At Willem II, he once ordered his whole squad to follow him by car, while they drove 13 km away from their training ground. At a remote spot, all players had to give their car keys to Adriaanse. Then he drove back to town, while the squad had to run in front of his car. Back at the training ground, the players got their car keys back. However, since their cars were still parked far from the training ground, they all had to walk back another 13 km.[6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Co_Adriaanse#cite_note-5)At AZ Alkmaar he once ordered the whole squad to search for Easter eggs during a training session. They looked for an hour until Co Adriaanse finally revealed there were no eggs hidden.[7] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Co_Adriaanse#cite_note-6) Adriaanse already had these strange training methods at the start of his career, because when he was a youth trainer at Ajax, he sometimes ordered his players to lay on the ground. Then a teammate (with football boots on) would run over the bodies.[8] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Co_Adriaanse#cite_note-7) Because of all these infamous incidents, Adriaanse is sometimes nicknamed "Psycho Co"

:D

Blizzard
09-03-2012, 07:09 PM
I agree with this!

Overall, Mariner has actually weakened this team. He got rid of players with skill such as Plata, Soolsma and JDG replacing them with Amerikwa and Weideman. O'Dea will probably be solid enough. He'd better be if he's making the $300k plus that we've heard rumoured. Meanwhile, Avila (who Winter did have some time for even though Silva pushed him out of the starting 11 and into a 30 min subs role), can't get a second on the pitch.

I don't trust Mariner. I didn't trust him when he worked for Winter and I do not rate him as a coach.




1. Poor Coaching

He plays guys out of position
He plays an archaic brand of football that asks so little from his players that they literally are learning nothing (Doneil Henry and Ashtone Morgan)
His system is so simple that it's been figured out and when you give teams 60% of the ball, more often than not they're gonna burn you.
He doesn't use substitutions properly and sometimes not at all.

2. Poor Player Selection

He can't find a mix of grinders and technical players and leaves some guys rotting on the bench while other (who some believe shouldn't even play) play a lot and often start.
He traded a DP (JDG) which was a good thing to free up space, only to pick up another DP in a trade. A guy that is injured and inconsistent (Hassli) and not well suited to the type of game Mariner wants to play with long balls launched up to a lone strikers head.

3. Poor Results.

5 wins. 8 losses. 6 ties (in all competitions)
Winless in 7. Last win was against Aguila on Aug. 1st.
Still at the bottom of the table. Just where we were when he came on. All but eliminated from the CCL.

4. He's a liar.

Told us, flat out, that he would only make minor tweaks and then proceeded to change everything, including players, formations and tactics.

5. He (in his own words) is a players coach but is showing that he isn't.

Kocic plays all season and just when the last meaningful game of the season is upon us, he sits him and starts a guy with no experience in MLS or CCL. Classy move
Frings is named captain, is asked to play as a sweeper, is asked to mentor the young players....and Mariner singles him out and calls him out in a press conference (with the help of his minion Larsson). Next game Frings is not with the team and Mariner explains it by saying that Frings is in Germany getting treatment for a season ending hip injury that he managed to play on for 90 minutes in the previous game. Darren O'Dea is named captain after a handful of games with the team. Classy.

6. He's not new to TFC and shouldn't be afforded the same amount of time that a new hire gets.

He's been here for 2 years and was originally tasked to bring in players to help this team succeed. Failed at that.
Failed while being GM and is now failing as coach.

7. (this one is just my opinion and speculation) He's a snake.

He was hired two years ago to help this team succeed by bringing in players for the new philosophy which he presumably bought into upon being hired. It's obvious that his views on the game were the complete opposite of the style of play that was announced to the supporters when he and Winter and Co. were hired. So why accept the job in the first place if you're not going to buy in and do your best? If he did do his best, then he sucks at his job.

Then....in May it is announced that he's going to go down on to the training pitch to "help with the strikers" LOL
Shortly thereafter Winter parts ways with TFC....Mariner is PROMOTED....and Jim Brennan is named assistant, while BDK is sent down to the academy. (He'll be gone real soon too)

Then we hear that Mariner signed a 3 year extension BEFORE Winter was fired. It's not confirmed but Molinaro sits down with Anselmi for lunch and we're told that Mariner isn't going anywhere anytime soon. Safe to say that the contract talk has legs.

So....it leaves some questioning just how hard Mariner worked to help Winter and Co. succeed, and what his motives were, are, and will continue to be?

So there you have my reasons. Not my reasons to fire him...because at this point I don't give a shit if they fire him. While he's around I won't be around. Not as a season ticket holder at least.

I tried to keep it somewhat short cause I know you don't want to sift through painfully long posts but there are just too many reasons to support my argument.

Yohan
09-03-2012, 07:15 PM
. Meanwhile, Avila (who Winter did have some time for even though Silva pushed him out of the starting 11 and into a 30 min subs role), can't get a second on the pitch.
Avila can't get mins because he's a very talented, but one dimensional player who can only play one position, AM, which has very little use in Mariner's system.

Blizzard
09-03-2012, 08:07 PM
Avila can't get mins because he's a very talented, but one dimensional player who can only play one position, AM, which has very little use in Mariner's system.

I'd put him in at the top of the diamond behind the two striker's at around the one hour mark replacing whomever has been in that role previous, probably Silva.

He's being wasted while Mariner keeps dropping in players like Maund into the line-up. We do need to try and actually win games after all. More often then not, PM seems to be playing to preserve a one goal loss.

jloome
09-03-2012, 08:24 PM
Why don't those that whinge, whine, and say they won't come to games any more, won't stay away ...

I'm quite willing to listen to an coherent, simple, argument about why Mariner should be replaced (and presumably Anselmi kept ...). I'm not willing to dig through drivel, or read painfully long posts, which haven't been edited into a coherent thought.

Yes, that's it. I'm unwilling to waste my time keeping you informed, an therefore am unable to do so. Everyone, given our track record .... I'd like to present the next manager of Toronto FC.

v00d00daddy
09-03-2012, 09:18 PM
Apologies to Richard. My long post was meant to be a response to nfitz.

Rene Kingsriver
09-03-2012, 09:27 PM
I don't think you'll find too many people disagreeing with the idea that they're both failures.

For me it's much less to do with getting rid of Winter the coach and much more to do with getting rid of what Winter (and others) were trying to do.

Add to that the fact that they kept a part of the problem in Mariner AND that I despise his type of football and it's easy for me to give up my season seats.

I'm not renewing either, its quite liberating really. I have no idea where this idea that unless you're a STH you aren't a real supporter comes from I watches my team countless times in England and never ever held a season ticket.

ryan
09-03-2012, 09:41 PM
What v00d00 said. /TFC

nfitz
09-03-2012, 09:43 PM
the problem is that he can't think of any reason lol.I already laid out reasons.

I haven't bumped into anyone advocating that we fire a manager who has only just gotten here. It's embarrassing. Not sure why all the whiners congregate here.

3. Poor Results.

5 wins. 8 losses. 6 ties (in all competitions)That's a poor result? What, as opposed to 0-0-9?


4. He's a liar.

Told us, flat out, that he would only make minor tweaks and then proceeded to change everything, including players, formations and tactics.He's barely changed anything. Compare to the whole-scale changes Winter made during the summer transfer period. Those were minor tweaks. You call that lying?


Then we hear that Mariner signed a 3 year extension BEFORE Winter was fired. It's not confirmed but Molinaro sits down with Anselmi for lunch and we're told that Mariner isn't going anywhere anytime soon. Safe to say that the contract talk has legs. Isn't that a good thing? Gives us our well-needed stability.

The whiners and whingers are going to do what they do. It's sad really ... kind of like the mentally-ill who always see the glass mostly empty while drowning.

Anyway, I'm dumb on this. I'm sure that most fans aren't ready to stick the knife in the back of another coach already. Though the rest seem to have seen the futility of debating it with those that will always be so negative.

Blizzard
09-03-2012, 09:58 PM
I already laid out reasons. Simply because you can't read is no reason to be rude.

Only a half-wit would be advocating that we fire a manager who has only just gotten here. It's embarrassing.

And that is where TFC screwed up. Mariner should have been named interim coach which would have given the club the opportunity to walk away from him without the appearance of firing him. The interesting thing about our coaches is that up until Preki, the club hadn't actually fired a coach. Mo promoted himself, Carver quit, Cummins turned down a contract and went home because his family couldn't get work permits, Daso was interim and stayed on Winter's staff and then left by mutual agreement. Only Preki and Aron were actually fired as such.

Portland seems to have done it right. The GM came downstairs temporarily (and yes, disastrously) but now they have their man in Caleb Porter for 2013. Sadly we have nobody at the top with this type of vision.

Of course, TFC screwed up twice with Mariner. The totally undeserved three year contract extension was the first major mistake unless one wants look at his initial hiring as a mistake. Some would.

In any case, we are stuck with him unless the new owners decide to clean house and in this regard, we can only hope.

nonc
09-03-2012, 10:48 PM
Isn't that a good thing? Gives us our well-needed stability.

The whiners and whingers are going to do what they do. It's sad really ... kind of like the mentally-ill who always see the glass mostly empty while drowning.

Buuut wouldn't seeing the glass half-full while drowning constitute being delusional? i.e. you?

What good is "stability" with a newb coach who has won less than 25% of the games he has coached as a pro, and continuously underwhelms in every technical aspect of his job?

I'm not advocating for Winter, he had to be fired, but using his loss streak to rationalize Mariner's debauchery of incompetence and regression just doesn't cut it. The reason you and Larson and Rollins are so maddening is because you ignore negative aspects of the present and assume progress as being inevitable, whereas others of us see sh*t and expect sh*t to continue unless we're given reason to believe otherwise. Which one is more "irrational"?...

Yohan
09-03-2012, 11:02 PM
Take out Mariner's record with Koevermans and lo and behold, his record is very similar to Winter's.

I never got this. It's like saying Yallop's record would suck if Wondolowski's goals are taken away. Just don't make any sense.

Yohan
09-03-2012, 11:19 PM
Portland seems to have done it right. The GM came downstairs temporarily (and yes, disastrously) but now they have their man in Caleb Porter for 2013. Sadly we have nobody at the top with this type of vision.


I don't get all this Caleb Porter love. He's got sexy appeal because he plays attacking style, but let's face it. Success in NCAA level is like winning PDL championship. There is a reason why not many NCAA coaches can make the jump to MLS level.

Shakes McQueen
09-04-2012, 05:50 AM
Point being the wins that TFC got after the coaching change were likely more attributed to an in-form Koevermans than any coaching acumen of Mariner.

Completely impossible to know as one man of eleven on the field, and hence not really worth debating. And I say that as someone who has probably seen enough of Mariner at this point.

- Scott

Shakes McQueen
09-04-2012, 06:02 AM
The whiners and whingers are going to do what they do. It's sad really ... kind of like the mentally-ill who always see the glass mostly empty while drowning.

Anyway, I'm dumb on this. I'm sure that most fans aren't ready to stick the knife in the back of another coach already. Though the rest seem to have seen the futility of debating it with those that will always be so negative.

If the best you can do is compare your intellectual opponents to the mentally-ill, and offer some extremely short, vague arguments that mainly circle around calling every "whingers" - perhaps it's best that you just stay out of this thread. I don't know what you expected to see in a thread titled "Who should be the NEXT coach of TFC?".

- Scott

ryan
09-04-2012, 07:08 AM
I never got this. It's like saying Yallop's record would suck if Wondolowski's goals are taken away. Just don't make any sense.

It makes sense when you're comparing to Winter's early season streak and lack of in-form Koevermans. ;)

Oldtimer
09-04-2012, 07:10 AM
I don't get all this Caleb Porter love. He's got sexy appeal because he plays attacking style, but let's face it. Success in NCAA level is like winning PDL championship. There is a reason why not many NCAA coaches can make the jump to MLS level.

The majority of the good coaches in MLS got their start in NCAA. That doesn't mean, of course, that all NCAA coaches can jump to MLS, but NCAA coaches have a better record overall than hiring ex-players without NCAA coaching experience or hiring coaches from abroad.

Yohan
09-04-2012, 07:17 AM
Point being the wins that TFC got after the coaching change were likely more attributed to an in-form Koevermans than any coaching acumen of Mariner.


It makes sense when you're comparing to Winter's early season streak and lack of in-form Koevermans. ;)
Speculation.
If we are going to speculate this way, how about from from July 8 till July 18 when Koevermans did not score/did not play, but TFC had a record of 3 wins and 1 loss? Fluke?

Yohan
09-04-2012, 07:29 AM
The majority of the good coaches in MLS got their start in NCAA. That doesn't mean, of course, that all NCAA coaches can jump to MLS, but NCAA coaches have a better record overall than hiring ex-players without NCAA coaching experience or hiring coaches from abroad.

Very debatable. Of current MLS coaches, Hyndman, Arena, Hackworth and Schmid, soon Porter have NCAA experience. Hyndman, Arena and Schmid spent 15-20 yrs with NCAA before making the jump, so they were vastly experienced (like old geezer experienced) before jumping to MLS. Hackworth had 3 yrs in NCAA. Porter, 6 yrs.
Other good coaches like Kinnear, Yallop, Vermes, have no NCAA experience at all. Currently, 4 out of 19 (soon to be 5) coaches have any NCAA experience. I think the trend is that NCAA experience is not a prerequisite to be an MLS manager. Certainly the trend in hiring does not look that way. (Otherwise, more NCAA coaches would get a chance in MLS?)

Oldtimer
09-04-2012, 07:44 AM
Very debatable. Of current MLS coaches, Hyndman, Arena, Hackworth and Schmid, soon Porter have NCAA experience. Hyndman, Arena and Schmid spent 15-20 yrs with NCAA before making the jump, so they were vastly experienced (like old geezer experienced) before jumping to MLS. Hackworth had 3 yrs in NCAA. Porter, 6 yrs.
Other good coaches like Kinnear, Yallop, Vermes, have no NCAA experience at all. Currently, 4 out of 19 (soon to be 5) coaches have any NCAA experience. I think the trend is that NCAA experience is not a prerequisite to be an MLS manager. Certainly the trend in hiring does not look that way. (Otherwise, more NCAA coaches would get a chance in MLS?)

I'd agree that there is a trend away from NCAA coaches. So in your example, it's still better than 50% for the NCAA coaches. Anyway, I don't think it really is a necessity, I was just explaining why people like Porter. They think of guys like Arena and Sigi and would love to have "the next" one like them. Certainly I'd rather take a flyer on Porter than some youth coach from Europe.

Canary10
09-04-2012, 08:21 AM
I don't get all this Caleb Porter love. He's got sexy appeal because he plays attacking style, but let's face it. Success in NCAA level is like winning PDL championship. There is a reason why not many NCAA coaches can make the jump to MLS level.

He's made a fairly insignificant university into one of the top soccer programs in the US, brought up a lot of very good young players (Mattocks, Nagbe to name a few). He played in the league, he's strongly connected to US soccer through his coaching of the under 23s. And he plays the kind of game TFC launched a major marketing campaign to sell to the fans, only to ditch it and hire George Costanza as head coach.

Also, there are quite a few NCAA coaches who made the jump to MLS and have become the most respected coaches in the league. Bruce Arena, Siggi Scmid, Shellas Hyndman to name a few. (oops, I see this has been covered. Should have read back through the thread before responding...)

He obviously could fail, no one is guaranteed. But he comes with a hell of lot of upside. While TFC dithers with the tactical equivalent to the Liberal Party of Canada's election advisor, good coaches who play our supposed philosophy are scooped up.

jabbronies
09-04-2012, 08:29 AM
Completely impossible to know as one man of eleven on the field, and hence not really worth debating. And I say that as someone who has probably seen enough of Mariner at this point.

- Scott

I have to agree with Whoop on this one. Without Koevs, Mariners record looks a lot worse. We are seeing now how guys can't finish to save their lives. Koevs could finish and was a much stronger presence up front than anything we have now - including Hassli. Without his scoring touch or his presence in front of the net, that team is pretty much the same as what you see now - nothing up front.

Fort York Redcoat
09-04-2012, 08:31 AM
All this NCAA coach love comes from the fact its an avenue we've not explored.

Shakes McQueen
09-04-2012, 08:41 AM
I have to agree with Whoop on this one. Without Koevs, Mariners record looks a lot worse. We are seeing now how guys can't finish to save their lives. Koevs could finish and was a much stronger presence up front than anything we have now - including Hassli. Without his scoring touch or his presence in front of the net, that team is pretty much the same as what you see now - nothing up front.

Barcelona without Messi look worse. Arsenal without Van Persie look worse.

Any team without it's best players looks worse. My point is it's impossible to concretely attribute any betterment of results on "Koevermans being in-form", unless he dribbled past everyone on his own while the rest of the team was at the pub. When we won those three games in a row, the third game actually came without Koevs (or Hassli) in the lineup.

I think saying "take away our awesome player(s) and our manager is crap!" is a fundamentally faulty starting point, especially with the added qualifier of "in-form" - which is usually just a euphemism for "playing well". And it would logically follow that you could just as easily excuse the manager for bad results, because the players (or one key player) were "out of form", then.

And yeah, I think our formation, tactics, and player choices have been pretty bad for weeks now. There are plenty of really good vantage points from which to criticize Mariner, that don't require us to rely on the above, impossible to prove or disprove, hypothesis.

- Scott

Yohan
09-04-2012, 09:04 AM
He's made a fairly insignificant university into one of the top soccer programs in the US, brought up a lot of very good young players (Mattocks, Nagbe to name a few). He played in the league, he's strongly connected to US soccer through his coaching of the under 23s. And he plays the kind of game TFC launched a major marketing campaign to sell to the fans, only to ditch it and hire George Costanza as head coach.

Also, there are quite a few NCAA coaches who made the jump to MLS and have become the most respected coaches in the league. Bruce Arena, Siggi Scmid, Shellas Hyndman to name a few. (oops, I see this has been covered. Should have read back through the thread before responding...)

He obviously could fail, no one is guaranteed. But he comes with a hell of lot of upside. While TFC dithers with the tactical equivalent to the Liberal Party of Canada's election advisor, good coaches who play our supposed philosophy are scooped up.

I really hope Porter does better with Portland than what he did with US U23 Olympic squad. He blew it with such a stacked team.

Yohan
09-04-2012, 09:07 AM
Barcelona without Messi look worse. Arsenal without Van Persie look worse.

Any team without it's best players looks worse. My point is it's impossible to concretely attribute any betterment of results on "Koevermans being in-form", unless he dribbled past everyone on his own while the rest of the team was at the pub. When we won those three games in a row, the third game actually came without Koevs (or Hassli) in the lineup.

I think saying "take away our awesome player(s) and our manager is crap!" is a fundamentally faulty starting point, especially with the added qualifier of "in-form" - which is usually just a euphemism for "playing well". And it would logically follow that you could just as easily excuse the manager for bad results, because the players were "out of form", then.

And yeah, I think our formation, tactics, and player choices have been pretty bad for weeks now. There are plenty of really good vantage points from which to criticize Mariner, that don't require us to rely on the above, impossible to prove or disprove, hypothesis.

- Scott

Just to stir the pot a little, is Hyndman a bad MLS coach? Because it seems like he rides on 'in form' player a lot. First it was Cunty, now David Ferreira (who is primary reason Dallas is doing well lately after such an abysmal season)

[NBF]
09-04-2012, 09:09 AM
Team

Head Coach

Captain

School





Chicago Fire (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_Fire_Soccer_Club)



Frank Klopas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Klopas)


Logan Pause (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logan_Pause)


Quaker (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quaker_Oats_Company)


Colorado Rapids (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colorado_Rapids)

Óscar Pareja (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%93scar_Pareja)
Pablo Mastroeni (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pablo_Mastroeni)
n/a


Columbus Crew (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbus_Crew)

Robert Warzycha (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Warzycha)
Chad Marshall (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chad_Marshall)
Barbasol (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbasol)



D.C. United (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D.C._United)

Ben Olsen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Olsen)
Dwayne De Rosario (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dwayne_De_Rosario)
Volkswagen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen)


FC Dallas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FC_Dallas)
Schellas Hyndman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schellas_Hyndman)
Ugo Ihemelu (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ugo_Ihemelu)
AdvoCare (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AdvoCare)


Houston Dynamo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houston_Dynamo)

Dominic Kinnear (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominic_Kinnear)

Brian Ching (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Ching)
Greenstar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenstar)


Los Angeles Galaxy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Angeles_Galaxy)
Bruce Arena (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruce_Arena)
Landon Donovan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landon_Donovan)
Herbalife (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbalife)


Montreal Impact (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montreal_Impact)

Jesse Marsch (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesse_Marsch)
Davy Arnaud (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Davy_Arnaud)
Bank of Montreal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bank_of_Montreal)


New England Revolution (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_England_Revolution)

Jay Heaps (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jay_Heaps)
Matt Reis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matt_Reis)
UnitedHealthcare (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UnitedHealthcare)


New York Red Bulls (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_Red_Bulls)
Hans Backe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Backe)
Thierry Henry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thierry_Henry)
Red Bull (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Bull)


Philadelphia Union (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philadelphia_Union)
John Hackworth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Hackworth)
Carlos Valdés (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlos_Vald%C3%A9s_%28footballer%29)
Bimbo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bimbo_Bakeries_USA)


Portland Timbers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portland_Timbers)
Gavin Wilkinson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gavin_Wilkinson)
Jack Jewsbury (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Jewsbury)
Alaska Airlines (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alaska_Airlines)


Real Salt Lake (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_Salt_Lake)

Jason Kreis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jason_Kreis)
Kyle Beckerman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyle_Beckerman)
XanGo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XanGo)


San Jose Earthquakes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Jose_Earthquakes)

Frank Yallop (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Yallop)

Ramiro Corrales (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramiro_Corrales)
n/a


Seattle Sounders FC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seattle_Sounders_FC)
Sigi Schmid (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sigi_Schmid)
Mauro Rosales (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mauro_Rosales)
Xbox (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xbox)


Sporting Kansas City (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sporting_Kansas_City)

Peter Vermes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Vermes)
Jimmy Nielsen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Nielsen)
n/a


Toronto FC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toronto_FC)

Paul Mariner (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Mariner)
Torsten Frings (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torsten_Frings)
Bank of Montreal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bank_of_Montreal)


Vancouver Whitecaps FC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vancouver_Whitecaps_FC)

Martin Rennie (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Rennie)
Jay DeMerit (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jay_DeMerit)
Bell Canada (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_Canada)





I have a funny feeling that Jim Brennan will either become the assistant head coach to someone with MLS playing experience or Jim Brennan will become the new head coach of TFC.

Shakes McQueen
09-04-2012, 09:17 AM
I'm not opposed to Brennan becoming a head coach one day - it's not like you have to be a star player to be a good coach - but I've seen nothing to suggest that he's ready any time soon. If he were named Mariner's replacement or something, I may just throw the keys on the table and say I'm done with this team, until major upheaval takes place.

- Scott

ag futbol
09-04-2012, 09:18 AM
@Yohan's last post

Debatable. But Fereira is his player, he identified him a long time ago and when he’s not injured, he’s pretty much always in form. Castillo has been pretty hot too as of late. When their team is healthy they have a lot of different parts that click.

The interesting thing about Porter is that at the NCAA level he has a reputation of recruiting the players that do well in the NCAA and subsequently do well at the pro level. Not every NCAA coach fits that mold, so I’m sure that’s part of the appeal.

Yohan
09-04-2012, 09:20 AM
I'm not opposed to Brennan becoming a head coach one day - it's not like you have to be a star player to be a good coach - but I've seen nothing to suggest that he's ready any time soon. If he were named Mariner's replacement or something, I may just throw the keys on the table and say I'm done with this team, until major upheaval takes place.

- ScottJimmy B is going to be head coach of TFC... probably sooner than later. He's clearly being groomed by MLSE for whatever reason

Canary10
09-04-2012, 09:27 AM
I really hope Porter does better with Portland than what he did with US U23 Olympic squad. He blew it with such a stacked team.


If I'm hiring a manager, I'd view that experience as a positive. I'm sure he learned a lot more from that than he does thrashing teams and losing only 4 games a season as he does in NCAA.

Suds
09-04-2012, 09:30 AM
As for Brennan, I'm in agreement in not wanting him heading the team in the next few years. But I will keep an open mind about the future. You can never extrapolate a players career and figure out how they will do as a head coach/manager. Many examples of good players being poor coaches and vice versa.

I think Brennan and Dichio should both keep honing their coaching skills. Maybe even leave TFC for a while to mentor under some other systems and people. Then one day in the future they could be a good manager for us. I do like the idea of TFC investing in coaches to build continuity within the club. I'm just a little concerned who are mentoring these newer coaches.

ag futbol
09-04-2012, 09:34 AM
I'm not opposed to Brennan becoming a head coach one day - it's not like you have to be a star player to be a good coach - but I've seen nothing to suggest that he's ready any time soon. If he were named Mariner's replacement or something, I may just throw the keys on the table and say I'm done with this team, until major upheaval takes place.

- Scott
I don't know, he never struck me as the guy who had head coaching qualities. Agreed, you don't have to be the best player to be a good coach, but the way Jimmy handles himself and played the game... I'd have a tough time believing he'd get anywhere with it.

Struck me as too entitled, technically poor but also positionally poor, you'd see him call people out on the field when he was consistently blowing his own marking assignments etc.. Hell if we want to get speculative some people around here posted that he was actually Mo Johnston's nark. And that whole "I'm more of a front office guy as opposed to a field coach" episode... just more garbage. I can't see someone like that having an attitude that players would respect, I also can't see him actually putting his head down and doing the grunt work to become a good coach.

To me, I'd think someone like Ante Jasic, Pat Onstad, etc... would likely bets to be good managers. They have / had good careers and it's not like they are naturally gifted. You don't play that long unless you work hard and have a real desire to stick around the sport. I think they'd understand the league inside and out, plus really understand the game tactically, because without that understanding they would have been out of the league early.

Oldtimer
09-04-2012, 09:36 AM
I'm just a little concerned who are mentoring these newer coaches.

...or who has so far...

http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/2009/11/18/johnston_mo_big_381.jpg

Beach_Red
09-04-2012, 09:48 AM
...or who has so far...

http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/2009/11/18/johnston_mo_big_381.jpg


Well, keep in mind, the guy who mentored him in management is still running the show. Until that changes...

jabbronies
09-04-2012, 10:02 AM
Barcelona without Messi look worse. Arsenal without Van Persie look worse.

Any team without it's best players looks worse. My point is it's impossible to concretely attribute any betterment of results on "Koevermans being in-form", unless he dribbled past everyone on his own while the rest of the team was at the pub. When we won those three games in a row, the third game actually came without Koevs (or Hassli) in the lineup.

I think saying "take away our awesome player(s) and our manager is crap!" is a fundamentally faulty starting point, especially with the added qualifier of "in-form" - which is usually just a euphemism for "playing well". And it would logically follow that you could just as easily excuse the manager for bad results, because the players (or one key player) were "out of form", then.

And yeah, I think our formation, tactics, and player choices have been pretty bad for weeks now. There are plenty of really good vantage points from which to criticize Mariner, that don't require us to rely on the above, impossible to prove or disprove, hypothesis.

- Scott

That's not what is being said at all. People seem to point to those 3-4 wins at the start of his tenure and credit Mariner for those results.
What is being said is his record - including that initial win streak - would be worse without Koevs. The argument is being made against those who point to Mariners record as being something to hold his coaching abilities towards. Mariner is shit with or without Koevs in the lineup, but those wins are clouding the real situation of him being manager.

We all know the team is shit with or without Koevs in the lineup.

As for the Barca/Arsenal comparisons - different thing altogether than what we are talking about. You can't honestly say that without Messi - Barca wouldn't lose games the way TFC are without Koevs. TFC's whole game plan seemed to revolve around a target man like Koevs - hence why we ran out and got a replacement Koevs. TFC have shown to be nothing without that single player in that one position. I doubt a Barca or Arsenal would be nothing without 1 player.

Shakes McQueen
09-04-2012, 10:40 AM
But again - "Mariner's record would be worse without Koevermans" is a completely empty statement, because it doesn't matter, and is impossible to confirm. I suspect a lot of MLS teams would be worse without what is ostensibly their best player/striker. And as I said - the team managed to win the first game AFTER Koevermans went down injured.

I'm with you guys on pretty much every criticism you have or the job Mariner is doing, but it doesn't change the fact that I dislike logical fallacies and specious claims - particularly when they aren't even necessary.

Also, I accept that my Barca/Arsenal comparisons were kind of weak, mostly because their lineups are star-studded enough to easily survive losing one player, as big, top-tier teams.

- Scott

jabbronies
09-04-2012, 10:45 AM
But again - "Mariner's record would be worse without Koevermans" is a completely empty statement, because it doesn't matter, and is impossible to confirm. I suspect a lot of MLS teams would be worse without what is ostensibly their best player/striker. And as I said - the team managed to win the first game AFTER Koevermans went down injured.

I'm with you guys on pretty much every criticism you have or the job Mariner is doing, but it doesn't change the fact that I dislike logical fallacies and specious claims - particularly when they aren't even necessary.

Also, I accept that my Barca/Arsenal comparisons were kind of weak, mostly because their lineups are star-studded enough to easily survive losing one player, as big, top-tier teams.

- Scott

One day when we have time traveling capabilities, it will be possible to confirm this statement.

narduch
09-04-2012, 06:27 PM
This thread is pretty much moot now that Anselmi has been promoted. No way is Mariner out with Anselmi having even more power.

Suds
09-04-2012, 06:45 PM
^^
Yeah, but it's still interesting to discuss different coaches out there and what each if them could bring to the table even if it is just a theoretical discussion.

Alonso
09-06-2012, 06:53 PM
Ok, I'm pretty sure that Mariner wouldn't be here any longer then this season or half of next (dispite the 3 year contract). So who should be our next head coach?


:banghead:

Canary10
09-06-2012, 07:15 PM
Just thought I'd put on the table Stephen Hart. I'm willing to bet this (long) qualification run will be his last. I think he could be an excellent TFC coach. The only one who regularly gets the best out of JDG.

Greatest Ripoff
09-06-2012, 07:28 PM
How about this guy:

-played and coached in North America as well as Europe
-won a domestic Cup
-coached in the uefa champions league

http://u.goal.com/192100/192104hp2.jpg

mowe
09-06-2012, 09:18 PM
But again - "Mariner's record would be worse without Koevermans" is a completely empty statement, because it doesn't matter, and is impossible to confirm. I suspect a lot of MLS teams would be worse without what is ostensibly their best player/striker. And as I said - the team managed to win the first game AFTER Koevermans went down injured.

I'm with you guys on pretty much every criticism you have or the job Mariner is doing, but it doesn't change the fact that I dislike logical fallacies and specious claims - particularly when they aren't even necessary.

Statement: Mariner's not completely terrible record in his first 10 games happened to coincide with Koevermans breaking out of his slump.

Under Winter this season Koevermans scored one goal in the first eight games (all losses). Then he scored in the record-breaking loss to DC and again in the next game (a win!) against Philly.

At this point Mariner took over. TFC went 3-2-4 and Koevermans had six goals and two assists in those nine games before getting injured. It was a glorious era. Since then TFC is 1-5-2.

Those were the facts, now allow me to introduce some personal analysis. You can look at the above say two things: 1) Mariner knew how to use Koevermans more effectively explaining the better results, or 2) Koevermans returning to form was a bigger factor than the coaching change during that period of "success".

I don't think there's much to 1) because we've seen Koevermans perform at a high level under Winter last year. His career strike rate proves that he performs his role very well wherever he's played.

2) is what I think a lot of people believe. Koevermans missed a lot of chances during that 9 game losing streak. It's natural for a striker to have a scoring slump but unfortunately for us no one picked up the slack. He was starting to figure it out and scored in the last two games with Winter in charge (including the game-winner for the first win of the season). Mariner came in, rode the hot striker, and fell back to the familiar futility after he got injured.

All people are trying to say is that Koevermans, not Mariner, deserves the lion's share of the credit for that brief spurt of mediocrity. Those eight or nine games are sometimes cited as an indication that Mariner is the right coach for TFC and he just needs more time. In reality, it's the same shit repackaged.

Shakes McQueen
09-08-2012, 06:01 AM
All people are trying to say is that Koevermans, not Mariner, deserves the lion's share of the credit for that brief spurt of mediocrity. Those eight or nine games are sometimes cited as an indication that Mariner is the right coach for TFC and he just needs more time. In reality, it's the same shit repackaged.

And I'll I'm trying to say is that strikers are paid to score goals, and you can't essentially give a single player all of the credit when the team is playing well, any more than you can absolve a manager of 100% of the blame when the team is playing poorly.

Nor can you even begin to state with any authority what "would have" happened if Koevermans wasn't in the lineup.

And as I've been saying all along - I'm more or less with you guys about Mariner. I suspected he probably wasn't our future when he was handed the reins, and I'm convinved of it now. He'll likely be left to play out the string this season, and then given his walking papers.

- Scott

Wull
09-08-2012, 11:01 AM
And as I've been saying all along - I'm more or less with you guys about Mariner. I suspected he probably wasn't our future when he was handed the reins, and I'm convinved of it now. He'll likely be left to play out the string this season, and then given his walking papers.

- Scott

Don't bet on it, he's well in with the right snakes in the pit. He'll be there next season unless there's enough pressure applied (season seat numbers, banners etc.)

SKB
09-08-2012, 08:09 PM
Just thought I'd put on the table Stephen Hart. I'm willing to bet this (long) qualification run will be his last. I think he could be an excellent TFC coach. The only one who regularly gets the best out of JDG.

An excellent suggestion. A very competent coach.

Chevy
09-08-2012, 08:37 PM
Statement: Mariner's not completely terrible record in his first 10 games happened to coincide with Koevermans breaking out of his slump.

Under Winter this season Koevermans scored one goal in the first eight games (all losses). Then he scored in the record-breaking loss to DC and again in the next game (a win!) against Philly.

At this point Mariner took over. TFC went 3-2-4 and Koevermans had six goals and two assists in those nine games before getting injured. It was a glorious era. Since then TFC is 1-5-2.

Those were the facts, now allow me to introduce some personal analysis. You can look at the above say two things: 1) Mariner knew how to use Koevermans more effectively explaining the better results, or 2) Koevermans returning to form was a bigger factor than the coaching change during that period of "success".

I don't think there's much to 1) because we've seen Koevermans perform at a high level under Winter last year. His career strike rate proves that he performs his role very well wherever he's played.

2) is what I think a lot of people believe. Koevermans missed a lot of chances during that 9 game losing streak. It's natural for a striker to have a scoring slump but unfortunately for us no one picked up the slack. He was starting to figure it out and scored in the last two games with Winter in charge (including the game-winner for the first win of the season). Mariner came in, rode the hot striker, and fell back to the familiar futility after he got injured.

All people are trying to say is that Koevermans, not Mariner, deserves the lion's share of the credit for that brief spurt of mediocrity. Those eight or nine games are sometimes cited as an indication that Mariner is the right coach for TFC and he just needs more time. In reality, it's the same shit repackaged.


I can't disagree with anything you have stated, but it's absolutely sad that we refer to a 3-2-4 stretch as a glorious era. I suspect it was meant sarcastically, but even so we're just so f**king pathetic. I'm dropping my six seats as I can't take it any more.

gracos
09-08-2012, 08:50 PM
I would love to see Mariner step back down, and be able to be coach when Stephen Hart would have international duty, it would definitely put us at an advantage both for Canada and TFC

jloome
09-12-2012, 08:11 PM
I would love to see Mariner step back down, and be able to be coach when Stephen Hart would have international duty, it would definitely put us at an advantage both for Canada and TFC

Former MLS coaches with winning records who are currently unemployed or under-employed (i.e. we'd pay more)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Sarachan


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octavio_Zambrano

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobby_Houghton

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colin_Clarke_%28footballer_born_1962%29

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_Hudson

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Nicol

denime
09-12-2012, 08:20 PM
I would suggest my son U13 Coach,he can teach our professionals basic skills needed to play competitive soccer and he has definitely more coaching knowledge than drunken monkey we have right now on the sideline.

Seriously,Sigma FC academy Technical director and head coach with UEFA License,Bobby Smyrniotis.Player connection in Holland,Belgium,Greece and Spain.

DoubleUp
09-12-2012, 08:37 PM
Former MLS coaches with winning records who are currently unemployed or under-employed (i.e. we'd pay more)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Sarachan


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octavio_Zambrano

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobby_Houghton

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colin_Clarke_(footballer_born_1962)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_Hudson

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Nicol


I Like the octavio guy, Would allow us to scout south america and knows the league.

but wouldnt mean anything if we kept the same FO, they`ll just find a way to fuck it up.

narduch
09-12-2012, 09:26 PM
Personally I would try to sway Bob Bradley away from Egypt. I realize how impossible that sounds.

Mariner isn't going anywhere, not with the Anselmi promotion that just occured.

But if the results get really bad, I could see Mariner 'promoting' himself to GM (Mo Johnston style) and we hire someone similar to Mariner.

ensco
09-13-2012, 07:17 AM
^Bobby Houghton. Some of us oldtimers would get a huge charge out of that.

While we're at it, how about Bettega for GM?

tfcmanu
09-14-2012, 04:01 PM
Former MLS coaches with winning records who are currently unemployed or under-employed (i.e. we'd pay more)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Sarachan


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octavio_Zambrano

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobby_Houghton

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colin_Clarke_(footballer_born_1962)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_Hudson

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Nicol

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Gansler - Coached as an assistant with TFC in 2007

tfcmanu
09-14-2012, 04:02 PM
^Bobby Houghton. Some of us oldtimers would get a huge charge out of that.

While we're at it, how about Bettega for GM?

Coached Colorado in MLS (1996)

tfcmanu
09-14-2012, 04:05 PM
^Bobby Houghton. Some of us oldtimers would get a huge charge out of that.

While we're at it, how about Bettega for GM?

Oltimer??? I'm only 38 and I remember the Blizzard and going down to Exhibition Stadium to support the team.