Pre/In/Post-Game Thread: TFC vs Santos Laguna Tuesday, Aug.28 @ 8:00PM EDT

[Yohan]

Just walked through tfc defence

[Suds]

what a let down, that comes down to mental lapse

that guy beat both Frings and Dunfield

[DaBandit]

Ok time to bring on Maund, we can salvage something still.. :facepalm:

[Soccerpro]

Anyone else see Torsten Frings get absolutely burned to give up that goal.

Please retire.

[Chevy]

Somewhere, in a basement apartment in Ohio, Bill Archer is smiling.

[Alonso]

Frings got undressed.

[gracos]

I cannot believe the black cat cross our path tonight, I guess we are cursed for life, time to find a new team, lol

[Yohan]

Hall didnt even try to make an effort to catch the santos player

[DoubleUp]

Frings thought he was at "Sleep country" on that one:picard:

[iy12l]

fire mariner now!!!!!!!!!!!

[Richard]

LOL.

[Alonso]

Officially over. And Typical TFC crash and burn in the end.

[gracos]

kids cheering on TFC, dont know TFC are completely done for this season, just about to figure out

[Soccerpro]

Predictions for Mexico? 5-0, 6-1?

[Suds]

where the hell was Hall (defender) on that one??

[Couchy81]

the black cat jinxed us.... oh wait no it didn't. par for the course.

[Dkolish3]

Hall fucked up on that one.

[iy12l]

Freddy hall nice goalkeeping you fucker! Thanks mariner for this shit season!!

[DaBandit]

And that's what happens when you get cursed by a black cat.

This organization is cursed. The Black Cat just proved it.

Organization is not cursed just poorly run since day 1

[ryan]

I felt our 1-1 draw under the old form was a game we deserved better, 2-1 if not 3-1. A game we were the better team without doubt, an exciting game.

This 3-1 loss under our new form, should have been worse, 4-1..maybe not even deserving of a goal. We weren't the better team by a mile, a boring game.




Sigh.

[Dkolish3]

We keep crossing to Amarikwa, reminds me of crossing to Plata

[iy12l]

Someone must of performed kabalah on tfc franchise

[nonc]

Jeremy Hall is as big as jokes get..aside from Mariner of course.

[Gazza]

That cat had been hiding out at BMO since '07

[Alonso]

Even Amerikwa couldn't save us.

[Wingback6]

Well... deck the Halls with shit play.

Freddie Hall was at fault for the first goal, flapping about like he's Ricketts for fuck sakes. Entirely saveable.

2nd, a bit of bad luck, but Jeremy Hall is an absolute shit defender, and entirely to blame for the last one. Neither one of them should see the field for a while. Henry is twice as fast as Hall, and at least plays defense properly.

And Freddy Hall is just terrible, has not business on the field. Kocic would have at least kept it a draw.

Not to blame it all on those two, there were mistakes all around. But they were bad when it mattered.

[Alonso]

That cat had been hiding out at BMO since '07


Took a 3'5" Mexican running into him under the bleachers to finally scare him out into the open!

The curse is now lifted!!!

[SoccMan]

And that is why there is nobody in the stands, fold this shit, give BMO to the Argos for who it was really built for and call it a day!

[Suds]

In the end no real surprise. Santos has much better quality and speed all over the field.

[DaBandit]

I felt our 1-1 draw under the old form was a game we deserved better, 2-1 if not 3-1. A game we were the better team without doubt, an exciting game.

This 3-1 loss under our new form, should have been worse, 4-1..maybe not even deserving of a goal. We weren't the better team by a mile, a boring game.

Sigh.

So true Ryan.. As much as I wasn't a winter fan, we played much better football then.. I absolutely hate the direction of this team

[reggie]

not bad for a usl club that charges epl prices.

[gracos]

Honestly now that the black cat has been released can we play better, highly doubt it

[DoubleUp]

Organization is not cursed just poorly run since day 1


You must admit the black cat was fairly strange, out all the different coloured cats in the world.

[[NBF]]

We keep crossing to Amarikwa, reminds me of crossing to Plata

Yes, agreed. Its giving up and throwing a hail mary to someone that says, "Who me?"

The black cat is lucky he scaped from someone's drawers. We're bound to end up on CNN with that stunt.

[Suds]

Honestly now that the black cat has been released can we play better, highly doubt it

notice how the black cat ran up the stairs to the MLSE box?

I guess he knew exactly where to go g:D

[Alonso]

Much like our season, and 6 years in existence, it's technically not over guys!

Remember the miracle in Montreal?

We can go down to Torreon, win 3-0 and take this round!

[ryan]

So true Ryan.. As much as I wasn't a winter fan, we played much better football then.. I absolutely hate the direction of this team

We were going in the right direction under him, without a doubt. We've set ourselves back 2 if not 3 years with this shit.


I hate RJ for not being able to head the ball into the fucking net to win us a few games. Wonder where we'd be if not for that wretched run.

Oh well.

[T-boy]

Well... deck the Halls with shit play.

Freddie Hall was at fault for the first goal, flapping about like he's Ricketts for fuck sakes. Entirely saveable.

2nd, a bit of bad luck, but Jeremy Hall is an absolute shit defender, and entirely to blame for the last one. Neither one of them should see the field for a while. Henry is twice as fast as Hall, and at least plays defense properly.

And Freddy Hall is just terrible, has not business on the field. Kocic would have at least kept it a draw.

Not to blame it all on those two, there were mistakes all around. But they were bad when it mattered.

Not hot on Freddy Hall are we?! I would say that Kocic probably wouldn't have saved ANY of those goals! All very well struck goals. The first was a bullet. I doubt hardly any goally would have saved that.

The only thing I agree with is Jeremy Hall's fault on the third goal, got sucked way out of position.

[nonc]

this Freddy Hall hate is honestly insane. 1st goal is savable but was a great strike from close range. 2nd and 3rd he had zero chance, Kocic wouldn't have done any better. He also made some excellent saves.

[nonc]

TFC is completely outclassed by Santos, it's not even remotely close, to blame your goalkeeper is beyond the realm of reason.

[ManUtd4ever]

Although TFC was poised to salvage a draw in the dying minutes, the questionable decision to start Freddy and Jeremy Hall ahead of Kocic and Henry ultimately came back to bite us in the ass. There goes the the last remnant of hope for this season. Sigh.

[reggie]

jus no talent,nothing on the bench,one striker on the roster,hall gets beat like a rented mule every game, johnson playing left
PM pet boy weedman playing every min(i think dunfield may get jealous)wtf.

[Chevy]

Much like our season, and 6 years in existence, it's technically not over guys!

Remember the miracle in Montreal?

We can go down to Torreon, win 3-0 and take this round!


I love your spirit, but we would need a bus load of mexican-hating black cats to get that result down there.

[FIAF]

What sucks is we don't actually have a chance like last year. Thanks to the new pro-USA and $$$ format from Concarupt. :(

[Suds]

Not hot on Freddy Hall are we?! I would say that Kocic probably wouldn't have saved ANY of those goals! All very well struck goals. The first was a bullet. I doubt hardly any goally would have saved that.

The only thing I agree with is Jeremy Hall's fault on the third goal, got sucked way out of position.

Have to agree. Our goals against had more to do with a really good shot and two really poor defensive efforts. I don't think we can put 100% fault of these goals on Hall.

The first goal may have been savable, but it was a bullet so I'll cut him a little bit of slack. It was not the deciding factor in the game.

[wesvahr]

Would love to hear from the perspective of a Santos player what they think about the TFC they played against in March and the team that they faced tonight.

I am willing to bet they would say it was like playing two completely different teams in a 5 month span, and that they were much more threatened by the team from March.

[Alonso]

We were going in the right direction under him, without a doubt. We've set ourselves back 2 if not 3 years with this shit.


I hate RJ for not being able to head the ball into the fucking net to win us a few games. Wonder where we'd be if not for that wretched run.

Oh well.

Seriously.

We should have stuck with Winter.

We should have stuck to a plan for once in this horrible fucked up 6 years of existence.

Any fucking coach, person, or troglodyte would have done the trick. Just give someone the reigns for 3 years minimum and better results are sure to follow.

But no.

We fire, hire, recycle, give away the future for great players that we turn around and throw away next season anyway....

Can we keep Mariner and build something over the next three years? (I'd rather have had Winter but Mariner will do.)

I doubt it. He will be lucky to make it out of next spring. Our management has the attention span of a three year old and the loyalty of Judas.

[nonc]

Although TFC was poised to salvage a draw in the dying minutes, the questionable decision to start Freddy and Jeremy Hall ahead of Kocic and Henry ultimately came back to bite us in the ass. There goes the the last remnant of hope for this season. Sigh.

a draw wouldn't have been that useful, it would still likely have required us to win in Mexico to advance. MLS league games are never meaningless, we want to climb out of the bottom. yeah thanks for the F. Hall thread... :rolleyes:

[DaBandit]

We were going in the right direction under him, without a doubt. We've set ourselves back 2 if not 3 years with this shit.


I hate RJ for not being able to head the ball into the fucking net to win us a few games. Wonder where we'd be if not for that wretched run.

Oh well.

Your bang on with your assessment..

I know I'm going to get shit on for saying this but I'm kind of glad TFC will not make it out of the group stage.. For the simple reason I don't want any type of credit given to this management team when bell/Rogers takes over. I don't want them to be able to save their jobs by say 'well we tied Liverpool and beat out Santos, so we must be headed in the right direction.' I want to see PM and ABC on the next flight out of town.. Let's start new with fresh faces and fresh ideas because it's quite obvious that this management team has lost the plot...

[Alonso]

I love your spirit, but we would need a bus load of mexican-hating black cats to get that result down there.


And I was being "internet style" (sneakily facetious).

But I would obviously claim credit if it happened! And be really obnoxious about it too....

[T-boy]

I actually thought TFC played fairly well! Kept it close, had some good possession in parts actually.

Let's face it realiastically - hardly any MLS team is going to be Laguna in two legs - not even Kansas or RSL on their best day would beat Laguna consistently. So, we really had no chance of getting through this round of the CCL. If we had drawn this game, "at least" would have something to look forward to for the end of the season (only to be thrashed off the park in the away game in Mexico). So, this game was ONLY about hope, nothing more than that.

I would definitely take some positives. I thought TFC pressured well high up the field on occassions tonight, and kept Laguna on their toes. There was a bit more hustle going forward so that Laguna couldn't pass the ball freely between their defenders so much. I thought Weideman looked ok tonight, probably our best player actually! Excellent work to create the chance for Amerikwa. Talking of which, I think Amerikwa continues to vastly improve every game. Jeremy Hall still needs some work, but at least his long throws create problems going forward.

This was never going to end well anyways. The hope is gone - but we wouldn't have beaten them in Mexico (and I don't think we will). So, it would be false hope anyway. Onwards to try and move up the league table.

[reggie]

PM" that was the best half we played all season,dunny and weedman were fantastic"and "i need a new pair of glasses.

[DoubleUp]

Winter was undermined by his better english speaking staff. He wasnt perfect but he had the knowledge to teach this team how to play football.

Like I said! this would be a debacle and now it has come to pass.



Mariner is the worst coach tactically and technically we've ever had.

[nonc]

What sucks is we don't actually have a chance like last year. Thanks to the new pro-USA and $$$ format from Concarupt. :(

tell me about it! the drawing system for the new CCL format is practically legalized rigging.

[boban]

Although TFC was poised to salvage a draw in the dying minutes, the questionable decision to start Freddy and Jeremy Hall ahead of Kocic and Henry ultimately came back to bite us in the ass. There goes the the last remnant of hope for this season. Sigh.
As opposed to getting bitten in the ass with letting in a goal when Kocic and Henry are on???

[v00d00daddy]

I thought there were actually some positives in this game.

Freddy Hall played well. Could have had the first goal but would have taken a pretty big save to get it. Made some really good stops but I don't see the distribution that is supposed to be significantly better than Kocic.

Wiedemans, Frings, Morgan, Silva and even Dunfield all played well.

RJ was invisible.

O'Dea was okay.

Eckersley was okay.

Amerikwa stinks LOL

Meh...the tie would have been nice but it is what it is with this team.

On to next season I guess.

If I go to another game this year I'm bringing Mariner a brand new pair of Clark Kent glasses. LOL

Shorts, cleats, running around like a lunatic AND broken black rimmed glasses. It's almost too comical to actually laugh at.

[boban]

Ahhh gone are the days when CBC and Rogers fought for these games.
Now they bring in an American feed to broadcast our home games - another testament to how colossally MLSE fucked things up with TFC!!!!!!!!!!

[DaBandit]

PM" that was the best half we played all season,dunny and weedman were fantastic"and "i need a new pair of glasses.

He certainly does, plus he needs a clue.. :facepalm:

[reggie]

2 good things about tonights game,i didnt pay a penny to watch and dobson and forrest did not do the play by play,

[Alonso]

Would love to hear from the perspective of a Santos player what they think about the TFC they played against in March and the team that they faced tonight.

I am willing to bet they would say it was like playing two completely different teams in a 5 month span, and that they were much more threatened by the team from March.

Completely agree.

Winter's team threatened their open style way more.

TFC played in Santos' class. Quick breaks and crisp passing.

This time. Not so much.

[DaBandit]

Winter was undermined by his better english speaking staff. He wasnt perfect but he had the knowledge to teach this team how to play football.

Like I said! this would be a debacle and now it has come to pass.



Mariner is the worst coach tactically and technically we've ever had.

Yes and double yes!

[asterix606]

Wow! I cant believe so many people showed up for this game! Wasting their money and time. Don't get me wrong, it was pretty empty but its still lots of money burned for nothing.

Just took a look at MLS standings.

[Alonso]

Your bang on with your assessment..

I know I'm going to get shit on for saying this but I'm kind of glad TFC will not make it out of the group stage.. For the simple reason I don't want any type of credit given to this management team when bell/Rogers takes over. I don't want them to be able to save their jobs by say 'well we tied Liverpool and beat out Santos, so we must be headed in the right direction.' I want to see PM and ABC on the next flight out of town.. Let's start new with fresh faces and fresh ideas because it's quite obvious that this management team has lost the plot...

I can sign onto this.

This is the silver lining in the first 6 years of fuckery.

Now we can hire a management team consisting of baboons, and reasonably expect better results.

[reggie]

I thought there were actually some positives in this game.

Freddy Hall played well. Could have had the first goal but would have taken a pretty big save to get it. Made some really good stops but I don't see the distribution that is supposed to be significantly better than Kocic.

Wiedemans, Frings, Morgan, Silva and even Dunfield all played well.

RJ was invisible.

O'Dea was okay.

Eckersley was okay.

Amerikwa stinks LOL

Meh...the tie would have been nice but it is what it is with this team.

On to next season I guess.

If I go to another game this year I'm bringing Mariner a brand new pair of Clark Kent glasses. LOL

Shorts, cleats, running around like a lunatic AND broken black rimmed glasses. It's almost too comical to actually laugh at.
at this rate the games may be on the comedy network next season.

[ManUtd4ever]

As opposed to getting bitten in the ass with letting in a goal when Kocic and Henry are on???

Kocic is a better reflex keeper than F. Hall in close, and he's had a penchant for making tremendous saves late in matches to preserve a result. Henry is a quicker defender than J. Hall and is more adept at tight marking, which is crucial against South American opponents.

Tactically, there's no guarantee that we would have faired any better with a different starting lineup. That being said, I don't think Mariner played our best available starting lineup in the most crucial match of the season.

As for those stating that a draw probably wouldn't have been a good enough result tonight, I agree, but at least we would have had a sliver of hope going forward.

[DaBandit]

I can sign onto this.

This is the silver lining in the first 6 years of fuckery.

Now we can hire a management team consisting of baboons, and reasonably expect better results.

Well we have a baffoon on the sidelines, so a baboon must be a step in the right direction.. Lol

[T-boy]

Kocic is a better reflex keeper than F. Hall in close, and he's had a penchant for making tremendous saves late in matches to preserve a result. Henry is a quicker defender than J. Hall and is more adept at tight marking, which is crucial against South American opponents.

Tactically, there's no guarantee that we would have faired any better with a different starting lineup. That being said, I don't think Mariner played our best available starting lineup in the most crucial match of the season.

As for those stating that a draw probably wouldn't have been a good enough result tonight, I agree, but at least we would have had a sliver of hope going forward.

Yeah exactly, this game was only about hope. It was about having something to look foward to at the end of the season (even it if ended up in a loss eventually in Mexico). Those who thought we could win this game handsomly need a reality check, that was never going to happen! A draw would have at least given a "sliver" of hope between now and October for this season.

[Pookie]

I was impressed with the play of Freddy Hall. Not saying he is a number 1 but his play was the highlight for me.

When you are outshot 15-7 it is hard to expect the result. I genuinely feel for these guys.

Hassli getting subbed at 45' in the biggest game of the year sure makes it worthwhile giving up that 1st round Superdraft pick, eh?

[Alonso]

I actually thought TFC played fairly well! Kept it close, had some good possession in parts actually.

Let's face it realiastically - hardly any MLS team is going to be Laguna in two legs - not even Kansas or RSL on their best day would beat Laguna consistently. So, we really had no chance of getting through this round of the CCL. If we had drawn this game, "at least" would have something to look forward to for the end of the season (only to be thrashed off the park in the away game in Mexico). So, this game was ONLY about hope, nothing more than that.

I would definitely take some positives. I thought TFC pressured well high up the field on occassions tonight, and kept Laguna on their toes. There was a bit more hustle going forward so that Laguna couldn't pass the ball freely between their defenders so much. I thought Weideman looked ok tonight, probably our best player actually! Excellent work to create the chance for Amerikwa. Talking of which, I think Amerikwa continues to vastly improve every game. Jeremy Hall still needs some work, but at least his long throws create problems going forward.

This was never going to end well anyways. The hope is gone - but we wouldn't have beaten them in Mexico (and I don't think we will). So, it would be false hope anyway. Onwards to try and move up the league table.


No offence T-Boy.

But this is rose coloured glasses to the very extreme.

[DaBandit]

I was impressed with the play of Freddy Hall. Not saying he is a number 1 but his play was the highlight for me.

When you are outshot 15-7 it is hard to expect the result. I genuinely feel for these guys.

Hassli getting subbed at 45' in the biggest game of the year sure makes it worthwhile giving up that 1st round Superdraft pick, eh?

Did he come off because of an injury? Seriously why on earth are we taking off our only legit striker? He must have been injured, maybe his ankle took a knock from that challenge in the 1st half..

[Alonso]

Winter was undermined by his better english speaking staff. He wasnt perfect but he had the knowledge to teach this team how to play football.

Like I said! this would be a debacle and now it has come to pass.



Mariner is the worst coach tactically and technically we've ever had.


In my opinion that is a bit overstated.

I preferred Winter, and his style. But in my opinion it's all the same really. A team needs to identify what it wants to do and stick with it. Not switch back and forth from each style (including over 130 players and 7 coaches in 6 years) and expect everyone to fall in line and perform.

Schizophrenia is TFC's nemisis! Brought to you by ML$E!

[asterix606]

MLS Goal leaders 2012-2013

#7 Alan Gordon, 11 goals
#15 Danny Koevermans 9 goals
#17 Maicon Santos 7 goals
#20 Dwayne DeRosario 6 goals
#30 Ryan Johnston 5 goals
#57 Luis Silva 4 goals

Our three departed players have scored 24 goals combined. TFC has 29 all season!!


MLS Assist leaders 2012-2013

#3 Dwayne DeRosario 11 assists

[jloome]

Somewhere, in a basement apartment in Ohio, Bill Archer is smiling.

Yeah, but once his mom gets off her knees, he'll still be the biggest cocksucker in the room.

[Alonso]

Did he come off because of an injury? Seriously why on earth are we taking off our only legit striker? He must have been injured, maybe his ankle took a knock from that challenge in the 1st half..

Honestly, I'm not sure what was wrong with Hassli, but he wasn't hustling in my opinion. The substitution was the right call. We got way more out of Amerikwa in the attacking half then Hassli.

Hassli had to have had a knock or injury. At least I hope that's the reason why he wasn't fighting for every ball.

[jloome]

I actually thought TFC played fairly well! Kept it close, had some good possession in parts actually.

Let's face it realiastically - hardly any MLS team is going to be Laguna in two legs - not even Kansas or RSL on their best day would beat Laguna consistently. So, we really had no chance of getting through this round of the CCL. If we had drawn this game, "at least" would have something to look forward to for the end of the season (only to be thrashed off the park in the away game in Mexico). So, this game was ONLY about hope, nothing more than that.

I would definitely take some positives. I thought TFC pressured well high up the field on occassions tonight, and kept Laguna on their toes. There was a bit more hustle going forward so that Laguna couldn't pass the ball freely between their defenders so much. I thought Weideman looked ok tonight, probably our best player actually! Excellent work to create the chance for Amerikwa. Talking of which, I think Amerikwa continues to vastly improve every game. Jeremy Hall still needs some work, but at least his long throws create problems going forward.

This was never going to end well anyways. The hope is gone - but we wouldn't have beaten them in Mexico (and I don't think we will). So, it would be false hope anyway. Onwards to try and move up the league table.

Good grief. That's all I can say to this sunshiny garbage. Seriously, is the front office sending you a fucking cheque, man? In case you missed it, we at least got a tie out of them the last time they were here.

[reggie]

No offence T-Boy.

But this is rose coloured glasses to the very extreme.
a broken pair to boot..

[Oldtimer]

...ended up missing the game in the end, no loss.

I am totally not surprised to see this result, I never thought that PM's hoofball could manage against a technically superior team, home or away.

T-Boy, you need to judge by the results, not by feelings that the team "did well." The score doesn't lie. Mariner is crap.

/SEASON

[69Chevy396]

MLS Goal leaders 2012-2013

#7 Alan Gordon, 11 goals
#15 Danny Koevermans 9 goals
#17 Maicon Santos 7 goals
#20 Dwayne DeRosario 6 goals
#30 Ryan Johnston 5 goals
#57 Luis Silva 4 goals

Our three departed players have scored 24 goals combined. TFC has 29 all season!!


MLS Assist leaders 2012-2013

#3 Dwayne DeRosario 11 assists


Moving Gordon was fucking stupid

[DaBandit]

Honestly, I'm not sure what was wrong with Hassli, but he wasn't hustling in my opinion. The substitution was the right call. We got way more out of Amerikwa in the attacking half then Hassli.

Hassli had to have had a knock or injury. At least I hope that's the reason why he wasn't fighting for every ball.

Sorry bud, but I disagree with this.. As I stated early he got no service what so ever in the 1st half, other then long balls out of our own end. I thought he held up the ball nicely a few times but it takes forever for our guys to show for the ball when he did because they are all pinned back in our 3rd of the field. A player can only hold up the ball for so long. He had some nice touches and was linking well with silva a few times. My point is that when you have a guy with hassli's skill level you don't take him out in the biggest game of the year for an MLS reject unless of course he is injured. As Pookie mentioned we gave up a 1st round pick for this guy, basically because we wanted to salvage something out of this season. The season was tonight and we subbed him out after 45 mins, we have all seen that he doesn't need to have a great game to make a big impact on a game (ex. Game against us in vancouver with that wonder strike).. I say we should have rolled with him for the entire game unless of course he was injured. Saying that Amerikwa did score but that was on the goalie more than anything and I'm pretty sure hassli would have buried that chance he put of the post with basically an empty net.

[69Chevy396]

Oddly enough, he won't think of this as an insult (Archer)

[Ryan1984]

what was the announced attendance tonight?

[Alonso]

Yeah, but once his mom gets off her knees, he'll still be the biggest cocksucker in the room.


OOOHHHHHH!!!!

Dice has nothing on you!

Baddabing!

[ryan]

what was the announced attendance tonight?

10K and change.

[gracos]

at this point I think the black cat could manage a winning team without ABCs and Mariner, and he doesnt even speak English, lol

[Jpexxx]

Sorry bud, but I disagree with this.. As I stated early he got no service what so ever in the 1st half, other then long balls out of our own end. I thought he held up the ball nicely a few times but it takes forever for our guys to show for the ball when he did because they are all pinned back in our 3rd of the field. A player can only hold up the ball for so long. He had some nice touches and was linking well with silva a few times. My point is that when you have a guy with hassli's skill level you don't take him out in the biggest game of the year for an MLS reject unless of course he is injured. As Pookie mentioned we gave up a 1st round pick for this guy, basically because we wanted to salvage something out of this season. The season was tonight and we subbed him out after 45 mins, we have all seen that he doesn't need to have a great game to make a big impact on a game (ex. Game against us in vancouver with that wonder strike).. I say we should have rolled with him for the entire game unless of course he was injured. Saying that Amerikwa did score but that was on the goalie more than anything and I'm pretty sure hassli would have buried that chance he put of the post with basically an empty net.

I'm with Alosno.

Hassli spent too much time dancing around trying to look pretty. Was not effective at all.

Amerikwa added much needed speed in the final 3rd, and a goal. Hassli was either hurt (so sub him) or not hussling becuase he didnt give a fuck (so sub him)

I'm sick of hearing about the first round pick. We has a game time desicison going into the match becuase of his back spasms, played like shit for a half and was taken out for a more effective player. But we are actually still bitching about the 2014 draft pick? jeses.


Edit: Hassli would have never even found himself with that near post chance because he is possibly the slowest player TFC has ever had. I don't think you can use that in the argument.

[Alonso]

Sorry bud, but I disagree with this.. As I stated early he got no service what so ever in the 1st half, other then long balls out of our own end. I thought he held up the ball nicely a few times but it takes forever for our guys to show for the ball when he did because they are all pinned back in our 3rd of the field. A player can only hold up the ball for so long. He had some nice touches and was linking well with silva a few times. My point is that when you have a guy with hassli's skill level you don't take him out in the biggest game of the year for an MLS reject unless of course he is injured. As Pookie mentioned we gave up a 1st round pick for this guy, basically because we wanted to salvage something out of this season. The season was tonight and we subbed him out after 45 mins, we have all seen that he doesn't need to have a great game to make a big impact on a game (ex. Game against us in vancouver with that wonder strike).. I say we should have rolled with him for the entire game unless of course he was injured. Saying that Amerikwa did score but that was on the goalie more than anything and I'm pretty sure hassli would have buried that chance he put of the post with basically an empty net.


Look Bandit, I agree with you on all fronts here.

Just don't call me bud. I find it condescending. Also, we aren't buds. Right?

... So. after agreeing with you on all fronts, there isn't much to say except that I don't think Mariner would have subbed Hassli ( His prime real estate. For anyone, unless it was a physical injury)

That's all I was trying to convey with my previous posts. Obviously without much success.

[nonc]

hopefully we don't make Torsten travel to the final two legs.

[flamehawk]

this Freddy Hall hate is honestly insane. 1st goal is savable but was a great strike from close range. 2nd and 3rd he had zero chance, Kocic wouldn't have done any better. He also made some excellent saves.

Ya, agreed. Kocic definitely should be starting, but I have not found Hall too disappointing. It's good to keep him as a sub. It's not his fault that Mariner is an idiot.

[Alonso]

hopefully we don't make Torsten travel to the final two legs.


After watching him get undressed by smaller, younger, and quicker opposition. I don't think that it would be wise at all.

[narduch]

hopefully we don't make Torsten travel to the final two legs.

What for? What are we saving him for?

[nonc]

Ya, agreed. Kocic definitely should be starting, but I have not found Hall too disappointing. It's good to keep him as a sub. It's not his fault that Mariner is an idiot.

I think Hall will be a great backup for Frei next year. He seems to have a very good attitude and would be thankful for the contract. Competition makes some goalies better quite frankly I always thought it made Frei uncomfortable.

[Dkolish3]

Torsten has had problems with the heat in Houston, he'd die in Torreon.

[nonc]

What for? What are we saving him for?

nothing, i just thought it would minimize whatever level of frustration he already has with the organization. maybe he'll want to go though, i can't say.

[mowe]

Man, there goes the last thing to look forward to during this season (as expected).

The thing that gets me most is that there's no hope anymore. I hate to bring up Winter because I did want him gone by the end but at least under him there was a clear plan. We were building something worthwhile, even if the man in charge wasn't capable. Now with Mariner we're going backwards. We've given up all hope of playing a technical style of football, the players we're bringing in are sub par, and apparently the academy is going back to archaic teachings. As long as Anselmi is in charge Mariner will sure get another full year and us lucky fans get to watch agonizingly ugly football till the end of 2013.

What's needed is for the new ownership to come in and make wholesale changes in management. Whether they're up to it remains to be seen.

[nonc]

After watching him get undressed by smaller, younger, and quicker opposition. I don't think that it would be wise at all.

:) at this stage in his career i don't think Liga MX players are ideal opposition

[narduch]

I love Mariner's roster management. Essentially he had 4 defenders on the bench. The only real attacking options were Amerikwa and Avila.

So in TFC's last important match of the season, we only make 1 sub in a game we badly need to win.

Why not bring on fresh legs in attack to try to steal a win?

[nonc]

I love Mariner's roster management. Essentially he had 4 defenders on the bench. The only real attacking options were Amerikwa and Avila.

So in TFC's last important match of the season, we only make 1 sub in a game we badly need to win.

Why not bring on fresh legs in attack to try to steal a win?

i'm surprised he didn't bring on Maund @ 2-1...

[gracos]

sign anyone of us up and we would do a better job than Mariner, you should use full advantage of your substitutes, and just a simple game of possesion ball and take a few shots when you get the chance, how is it the players just dont understand the simple game of football, they hoof it and make it harder for themselves to excel, i believe until we make it a simple north american style soccer, we will never amount to much

[TFC USA]

This is a good loss. These CCL runs only mask how bad we are.

End this season and fire MLSE. I want them out.

[narduch]

i'm surprised he didn't bring on Maund @ 2-1...

LOL. He ran out of time!

Nobody protects a loss better than Mariner!

[DaBandit]

I'm with Alosno.

Hassli spent too much time dancing around trying to look pretty. Was not effective at all.

Amerikwa added much needed speed in the final 3rd, and a goal. Hassli was either hurt (so sub him) or not hussling becuase he didnt give a fuck (so sub him)

I'm sick of hearing about the first round pick. We has a game time desicison going into the match becuase of his back spasms, played like shit for a half and was taken out for a more effective player. But we are actually still bitching about the 2014 draft pick? jeses.


Edit: Hassli would have never even found himself with that near post chance because he is possibly the slowest player TFC has ever had. I don't think you can use that in the argument.

Dancing with the ball because he generally had no one to play the ball too, should he hold up the ball for a second and then play it back to our own end were his teammates are?

You don't generally need to be speedy to be a good striker, many a striker have made a living without blazing speed, like I don't know pippo inzaghi.. Amirekwa scored so great on him, but I still don't rate him. And is speed didn't allow him to put the ball into an empty net so your speed point is actually moot..

As for the first rounder I think it's justifiable to moon about that, considering 1. Vancouver was desperate to unload hassli and we over paid 2. We could have gotten him for nothing in the off season 3. That 2014 pick will most likely be a top 5 pick unless there are sweeping changes in this organization..

Anyways we agree to disagree on things this evening..

[T-boy]

There suddenly seems a lot of hate for Frings on this board. He seems to have gone from hero to zero in a matter of a couple of weeks! :o

[gracos]

Eric Hassli Ryan Johnson
Terry Dunfield Luis Silva Eric Avila Reggie Lambe
Ashtone Morgan Adrian Cann Darren O'Dea Richard Eckersley
Milos Kocic

Bench
FWD Quincy Amarikwa
MID Matt Stinson
MID Nicholas Lindsay
DEF Aaron Maund
DEF Dicoy Williams
GK Freddy Hall

[__wowza]

There suddenly seems a lot of hate for Frings on this board. He seems to have gone from hero to zero in a matter of a couple of weeks! :o

to be perfectly honest, i took a lot of heat for mentioning that dunfield has had a consistently better pass total/accuracy rating than frings weeks ago. i think we should be dropping him back down into the sweeper role he was in before, lord knows it helped organize a shitty(er) backline than the one we have now.

[aptone]

Just a quick question-

Why didn't we see a sub besides the Hassli/Amerikwa swap? TFC was gassed after the 70th. If PM didn't want to make a switch to merely protect the tie, fine. I can appreciate that, but RJ was gassed from tracking back on the wing all night. Wouldn't Avila have been useful there?

Failing that, was it not clear to see that the d line was spent, and that a goal against was almost inevitable?

How can someone with PM's pedigree demonstrate virtually 0 capacity for rational thought? It seems like he's completely out of his depth. Like he's operating on a whim.

I guess there several questions there, but hey. If anyone has some insight on the above, please do let me know. I think I may be more adept at coaching this team than the head coach. My CV consists of having watched lots of soccer and kicking the ball around in the park. And fifa.

[DaBandit]

There suddenly seems a lot of hate for Frings on this board. He seems to have gone from hero to zero in a matter of a couple of weeks! :o

T-boy, I agree.. As Alonso mentioned the santos player put his jock strap into row three late in the game and he looked old and slow in that instance. However I think the issue is that the style of football mariner is playing does not suit a guy who is what 36?. he needs a more structured approached to the game to really shine.. You cant expect him to be good in this system where we are hoofing the ball over his head constantly and asking him to go get it back for 90 mins.. He definetly looked a whole lot better in winter system then how he looks now..

[jazzy]

Did he come off because of an injury? Seriously why on earth are we taking off our only legit striker? He must have been injured, maybe his ankle took a knock from that challenge in the 1st half..

thats what happenned and strangely he seemed to give up a bit...

[jloome]

to be perfectly honest, i took a lot of heat for mentioning that dunfield has had a consistently better pass total/accuracy rating than frings weeks ago. i think we should be dropping him back down into the sweeper role he was in before, lord knows it helped organize a shitty(er) backline than the one we have now.

You need to look at Dunfield's distribution pattern to get the whole picture. Most of his passes were going backwards and were short, so yeah, he was gonna have a high passing percentage.

[jazzy]

we were simply over our heads from midfield up......our passing at times ( mr. dunfield ) was when on attack passed way off to the side out of trouble ????....Frankly I missed Soolsma who never hesitated too attack and take men on....we just didn't have that in us...R.Johnson either missed passed or held the ball far too long and Silva was really out of step,..a step behind the action through-out the game.....Weedman had a chance to score the same goal as their first but that shows the difference of skill right there.Santos beat us to the majority of headed balls yet we always do it and they are basically shorter........Their speed at every position was visible. who we kidding they tried very hard but there wasn`t a hope in hell we could win 2 games against such a superior team. Frankly Next year starts today...and it doesn`t look even the least bit promising...A team even without hope , formula , or honour....man it could be worse,...we could playing on it.....I feel big time for any player with a heart on this team....cause the dumbest coach and mgmt with no future is at the helm....seriously thinking at renewal ....saying is Mariner the coach...Anselmi the boss .....yes ,..then by... GFY...

[Code Red]

What a fucking shitshow. For the love of God, I hope Garber introduces promotion/relegation at some point so that we may finally start putting in a fucking effort into our games, or at the very f'ing least get relegated and have a deserving club take our position.

As for Mariner, he needs to GTFO. This club is NOT any better under his helm. In fact, it's WORSE. Perhaps one day we'll have a coach like P. Vermes or J. Kreis, coaches who actually get the job done instead of a coach who gives wonderful hugs on the sidelines.

Fuck this shit.

[Jeff s]

Hall should not be starting at all. Ever. The guy is one of the worst defenders I've ever seen.

Dunfield needs to know that you're allowed to pass the ball forward.

Frings thought he was playing for Santos.

Johnson needs to be taught how to "pass and move". Johnson seriously, when you pass the ball back to Morgan, DONT JUST STAND THERE!

How does Weedman get a full 90? Come on Mariner, open your eyes. He's not even NASL material.


The only real positive thing I can say is that this is probably the most possesion we've kept with Mariner. We actually controlled the ball at times in Santos' area.

[DoubleUp]

What a fucking shitshow. For the love of God, I hope Garber introduces promotion/relegation at some point so that we may finally start putting in a fucking effort into our games, or at the very f'ing least get relegated and have a deserving club take our position.

As for Mariner, he needs to GTFO. This club is NOT any better under his helm. In fact, it's WORSE. Perhaps one day we'll have a coach like P. Vermes or J. Kreis, coaches who actually get the job done instead of a coach who gives wonderful hugs on the sidelines.

Fuck this shit.


:grouphug: :tfc:

[ag futbol]

I'm with Alosno.

Hassli spent too much time dancing around trying to look pretty. Was not effective at all.

Amerikwa added much needed speed in the final 3rd, and a goal. Hassli was either hurt (so sub him) or not hussling becuase he didnt give a fuck (so sub him)

I'm sick of hearing about the first round pick. We has a game time desicison going into the match becuase of his back spasms, played like shit for a half and was taken out for a more effective player. But we are actually still bitching about the 2014 draft pick? jeses.


Edit: Hassli would have never even found himself with that near post chance because he is possibly the slowest player TFC has ever had. I don't think you can use that in the argument.
I think people are perfectly within their rights to complain about that pick. We gave up an asset for a player who would have been available basically for free in 6 months that was unwanted by his former club. The entire point of it was short term results which aren't materializing.

Not only that, there have been some DP's signed in the window that are having a greater impact. So basically we give up assets because our FO is lazy and can't do their own homework.

[ag futbol]

this Freddy Hall hate is honestly insane. 1st goal is savable but was a great strike from close range. 2nd and 3rd he had zero chance, Kocic wouldn't have done any better. He also made some excellent saves.
A real question though is whether someone like Kocic who has been with the team longer would of had a more active line of communication with the back line and prevented our defenders from making a few mistakes.

Seen it before... Sometimes a GK that can organize his defenders can plug some holes. Doubt a guy who has been with the team this shortly is getting on everyone's ear enough. But that's down to coaching decisions more than Freddy Hall though

[khso11]

-it was a predicted loss i cant lie, even i was trying to give 100% to the team
-STOP PUTTING ECK AT CB, HE'S WAY BETTER AT RB!!!!
-please keep F.HALL on the bench, cant stop close shots, only acrobatic at times, good for the bench
-please put J. Hall on the bench, inconsistant, weak offensively, weak defensively at times, ECK at a wrong position and Hall is why the right side is completly destroyed at times
-Amarikwa is a good super-sub, but not a starter, i think he has some flair AT TIMES
-Im happy I didn't see Maund this game, no doubt on the youngster, but not yet to play any competitive games
-Stop yelling at Frings, he's why the midfield is still consistant most of the time, the last goal made him looked bad, but J.Hall should of defend that. I still think Frings is important to our midfield!!! Despite our midfield is already fucked up by PM
-Can't blame the team 100% for losing, the ref occasionally helped Santos, for instance Amarikwa was pulled and grabbed by the Santos defender but the ref called it the other way and a fk for Santos, this happened a few times too
-All i could say, if Mariner just doesn't step up and make better decisions to make us think he deserve a spot for next year, then GOOD LUCK to his fucking spot as head coach.
-I wonder what would happen in Torreon???? The "Torreon Miracle" lol.
-At the end of the day, the black cat proves that our curse has departed.........or just arrived :reddevil:

[Technorgasm]

Shit.
The.
Bed!!

[OgtheDim]

Wow! I cant believe so many people showed up for this game! Wasting their money and time. ...


Cause it was Efin fun doofus. Sorry, but people show up, sing their guts out, and you rag on them on a site for supporters?

[OgtheDim]

A few quick things

a) We should embrace the cat as a mascot.

TuF Cat


b) Ratio of Santos supporters to TFC supporters was way down from earlier in the season and way less then the El Salvador team.


c) First half we played well. Second half, we had nobody to hold the ball up....and they outcoached us by bringing in speed in the middle at halftime.


d) I'd still rather be in this position then be Vancouver or Montreal looking in.


e) Not sold on Hall as keeper. Hall as defender is a liability (good going forward - should be a winger?)

[Froshler]

The `black cat' pitch invasion should be embraced a a good sign...

Oshawa's own Ontario Regiment RCAC "The Black Cats"

http://archive.gg.ca/heraldry/pub-reg/ProjectPics/iv161_ub922_badge_ontariore.jpg

[asterix606]

I guess I no longer see the "fun" after 6 miserable years and a money whoring MLSE, doofus. If you want to sing your guts out try a karaoke bar, you might see more results.

I wish I could be as optimistic and unrealistic as some on these boards. I just don't see how Season 7 will be any different from Season 1 to 6. (W 45 L 82 T 53)

Note to MLSE: You will never see another dollar from me.

[maninb]

Fred Hall and Wiedmann actually played quite well...Our RB Hall was absolutely abysmal!!! Worst TFC defender since Garcia.....I have been willing to give Mariner some time but this was the last straw...his evaluation of talent seems non-existent, and his long ball tactics are so easy to defend it's embarrassing...

[nonc]

Lambe being out is not good for Silva's game. They are pretty much the only TFC players who look to make passes in and around the top of the box.

[Fort York Redcoat]

I guess I no longer see the "fun" after 6 miserable years and a money whoring MLSE, doofus. If you want to sing your guts out try a karaoke bar, you might see more results.

I wish I could be as optimistic and unrealistic as some on these boards.


We sing to support. Winning or losing. It's not about us. It's not about entertaining the crowd.

Sorry, where's all this optimism you're reading?

[__wowza]

You need to look at Dunfield's distribution pattern to get the whole picture. Most of his passes were going backwards and were short, so yeah, he was gonna have a high passing percentage.

from the writeup i did in my "dunfield under mariner" thread:


HOUSTON: 32 completed / 79% / better than silva & frings, tied with lambe
COLORADO: 43 completed / 87% / better than silva, frings & lambe
REVOLUTION: 29 completed / 66% / better than silva, frings & lambe
VANCOUVER: 29 completed / 69% / better than JDG & avila
PHILLY: 16 completed / 69% / better than frings.

these stats were calculated from forward passes only.
in 4 out of 5 of league matches (in the month of july) dunfield consistently did better than frings, and was one of our top midfielders in terms of distribution. im not going to even get into the irony of saying someone can be a distributing midfielder with the current formation, but you get the point. i kinda wanna do a pass comparison in terms of how many passes our midfield made under winter vs. under mariner, but it's nothing we don't already know.

[__wowza]

Wow! I cant believe so many people showed up for this game! Wasting their money and time. Don't get me wrong, it was pretty empty but its still lots of money burned for nothing.

Just took a look at MLS standings.

obvious troll is obvious.
watch the game, but rag on the people who showed up.
give people shit for supporting the team, but do it on a supporters site.


are we just about done here?

[brad]

nothing, i just thought it would minimize whatever level of frustration he already has with the organization. maybe he'll want to go though, i can't say.

It would have the opposite effect. Leaving a player behind for a game that actually has potential meaning is only going to piss him off.

[brad]

This is a good loss. These CCL runs only mask how bad we are.

End this season and fire MLSE. I want them out.

Getting knocked out oft he CCL will help us in the MLS next year as well. We have no squad depth, the extra games and the travel takes it's toll.

Still, I'd rather be in the CCL next year.

[__wowza]

also like to give a shout out to the guy in 112 last night who said i was blocking his view.

cause.. you know.. the reason i spent the entire second half away from my girlfriend and another friend i brought was because i wanted to ruin your fucking view.

:facepalm:

[brad]

I think people are perfectly within their rights to complain about that pick. We gave up an asset for a player who would have been available basically for free in 6 months that was unwanted by his former club. The entire point of it was short term results which aren't materializing.

I never worried too much about the picks until Pookie (I think) put together of a list of players we could have acquired with the picks we gave away - which would be a solid core to an MLS team. Our scoffing at the MLS/US style of play in an attempt to be more European in style of play has burned us big.

[brad]

People have been mentioning changes to the CCL format that favors US teams - and makes it tougher for us to qualify after this loss. What are those changes?

[brad]

from the writeup i did in my "dunfield under mariner" thread:


HOUSTON: 32 completed / 79% / better than silva & frings, tied with lambe
COLORADO: 43 completed / 87% / better than silva, frings & lambe
REVOLUTION: 29 completed / 66% / better than silva, frings & lambe
VANCOUVER: 29 completed / 69% / better than JDG & avila
PHILLY: 16 completed / 69% / better than frings.

these stats were calculated from forward passes only.
in 4 out of 5 of league matches (in the month of july) dunfield consistently did better than frings, and was one of our top midfielders in terms of distribution. im not going to even get into the irony of saying someone can be a distributing midfielder with the current formation, but you get the point. i kinda wanna do a pass comparison in terms of how many passes our midfield made under winter vs. under mariner, but it's nothing we don't already know.

I find criticisms of Dunfield not playing enough passes forward interesting, especially when those come along side with criticisms of playing direct football instead of maintaining possession. Lateral passes from the CM are critical to the possession game. Nobody ever criticizes that Xavi guy for padding his passing stats with so many easy, short lateral passes... (disclaimer - yes, I am aware Xavi does a lot more than that)

[T-boy]

No offence T-Boy.

But this is rose coloured glasses to the very extreme.


Good grief. That's all I can say to this sunshiny garbage. Seriously, is the front office sending you a fucking cheque, man? In case you missed it, we at least got a tie out of them the last time they were here.


a broken pair to boot..

So, do any of you REALLY think that we were going to get past Laguna in two legs? Honestly? No Toronto team EVER, so far, could have beaten Laguna. Very few MLS teams can beat Laguna. Even the most hardcore TFC fan has to admit that getting out of this CCL group was nigh on impossible for TFC. And this has nothing to do with Anselmi, Winter, Mariner, or anything else to do with the club. Laguna are far better than nearly ALL (if not ALL) MLS teams.

This isn't rose coloured glasses. This is realism. We lost.

And I'll also remind you that we also lost over two legs 7-3 to Laguna last time. So, no matter if we held them to a draw in the first game, over two legs they can score over double the goals than TFC can! If anybody thinks that suddenly we can go from a team 7-3 worse, to beating this team, then you really need to think about it!

We can either take some positives out of last night, or call the team shit for losing to a team they were never going to beat. I'd rather take the positives, thanks!

[Oldtimer]

S

We can either take some positives out of last night, or call the team shit for losing to a team they were never going to beat. I'd rather take the positives, thanks!

Last year TFC tied Santos at home, so obviously we are seeing a regression under your favourite coach. Win in Mexico.... probably not, but with better coaching and player management we should win the home game.

Mariner will win neither.

[Canary10]

We actually held the advantage going into the second half of the away leg you might remember as well.

[Carefree]

http://fut24siete.com/news/get_image/baloy-convocado-contra-portugal

This guy was an absolute beast at CB. Nothing got past him. I wonder how much he makes and whether he'd be open to move to Canada...

He's Panamanian so we'll probably see him again in Toronto in September.

[__wowza]

I find criticisms of Dunfield not playing enough passes forward interesting, especially when those come along side with criticisms of playing direct football instead of maintaining possession. Lateral passes from the CM are critical to the possession game. Nobody ever criticizes that Xavi guy for padding his passing stats with so many easy, short lateral passes... (disclaimer - yes, I am aware Xavi does a lot more than that)

i agree, this is a very different sport than most, sometimes the easiest way to go forward is by moving backwards. for the most part though, when we're playing this formation it's about moving forward and getting the ball upfield as quickly as possible. if we're looking at last nights game, excluding the backpasses, we're still left with:




TOTAL

SUCCESSFUL

UNSUCCESSFUL

%



FRINGS

57

32

25

56



DUNFIELD

41

33

8

81

[Jpexxx]

I never worried too much about the picks until Pookie (I think) put together of a list of players we could have acquired with the picks we gave away - which would be a solid core to an MLS team. Our scoffing at the MLS/US style of play in an attempt to be more European in style of play has burned us big.

I understand that.
But everytime we cry becuase we see somebody we could have had (ie. Brek Shea) are making assumptions that

A) TFC would have been smart enough to even select that player in the first place
B) that player would still develop and make the exact same impact on Toronto's roster

I don't trust Toronto's drafting ability, and i would rather trade picks away for proven MLS players anyday.

Also the pick for Hassli is in 2014. Who is to say we can't get our hands on a 2014 first rounder in the meantime (that draft a year and a half away). I'd like to think when either Kocic or Frei leaves we will be getting good compensation for one of them.

[Canary10]

I understand that.
But everytime we cry becuase we see somebody we could have had (ie. Brek Shea) are making assumptions that

A) TFC would have been smart enough to even select that player in the first place
B) that player would still develop and make the exact same impact on Toronto's roster

I don't trust Toronto's drafting ability, and i would rather trade picks away for proven MLS players anyday.

Also the pick for Hassli is in 2014. Who is to say we can't get our hands on a 2014 first rounder in the meantime (that draft a year and a half away). I'd like to think when either Kocic or Frei leaves we will be getting good compensation for one of them.

You're dreaming on that. LA didn't get much for Donovan Ricketts who most would say (at the time at least) was a top keeper in the league.

[Gazza]

I find criticisms of Dunfield not playing enough passes forward interesting, especially when those come along side with criticisms of playing direct football instead of maintaining possession. Lateral passes from the CM are critical to the possession game. Nobody ever criticizes that Xavi guy for padding his passing stats with so many easy, short lateral passes... (disclaimer - yes, I am aware Xavi does a lot more than that)

He was only "that Xavi guy" when he played for Liverpool ;)

[Couchy81]

So, do any of you REALLY think that we were going to get past Laguna in two legs? Honestly? No Toronto team EVER, so far, could have beaten Laguna.
...
This isn't rose coloured glasses. This is realism. We lost.



No Mexican team has ever beaten us at BMO until last night. This is also realism. We had a shot. We blew it. Big time.

[ryan]

This guy was an absolute beast at CB. Nothing got past him. I wonder how much he makes and whether he'd be open to move to Canada...

He's Panamanian so we'll probably see him again in Toronto in September.



His value on transfermarkt is 1.5M GBP.

[Yagbod]

also like to give a shout out to the guy in 112 last night who said i was blocking his view.

cause.. you know.. the reason i spent the entire second half away from my girlfriend and another friend i brought was because i wanted to ruin your fucking view.

:facepalm:

Another reason why we need control over tickets in our section. It takes huge courage to go up there like Wowza did. And for these two crackberry obsessed idiots who don't sing a lick to be in the first row of our section is a disgrace. That they complained about their view being blocked by the capo is just disgusting.

I challenged them on their whining and offered them a seat anywhere else in the stadium and the first thing they did was call me a dickhead. No civility at all, just straight in to name calling. No respect. They should be shamed out of our section.

[Furtado91]

Another reason why we need control over tickets in our section. It takes huge courage to go up there like Wowza did. And for these two crackberry obsessed idiots who don't sing a lick to be in the first row of our section is a disgrace. That they complained about their view being blocked by the capo is just disgusting.

I challenged them on their whining and offered them a seat anywhere else in the stadium and the first thing they did was call me a dickhead. No civility at all, just straight in to name calling. No respect. They should be shamed out of our section.

Yeah that was totally uncalled for last night. I think his friend should have informed him about the rules. Its sad howthis guy whines about the capo and nobody told him what section he was at and just let him ramble on. Had this been any other sg say in europe or anywhere else. They would be casted out or even worse.

Not that im condoning violence. But really it should be if your in 112 you sing. If you dont want to sing dont get ss in 112. It seems some ppl are members just for the scarf and status. Im sorry if i sound like an asshole. But i cant help but feel this group is being pushed around sometimes.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Yeah that was totally uncalled for last night. I think his friend should have informed him about the rules. Its sad howthis guy whines about the capo and nobody told him what section he was at and just let him ramble on. Had this been any other sg say in europe or anywhere else. They would be casted out or even worse.

Not that im condoning violence. But really it should be if your in 112 you sing. If you dont want to sing dont get ss in 112. It seems some ppl are members just for the scarf and status. Im sorry if i sound like an asshole. But i cant help but feel this group is being pushed around sometimes.

Casting him out of his season ticket spot will not happen.

This isn't Europe and I'm happy for it.

There was no need for the name calling that occurred but we carried on to finish the game. This is an issue we have to live with and work together until the section is in our hands alone.

[DoubleUp]

http://fut24siete.com/news/get_image/baloy-convocado-contra-portugal

This guy was an absolute beast at CB. Nothing got past him. I wonder how much he makes and whether he'd be open to move to Canada...

He's Panamanian so we'll probably see him again in Toronto in September.



The Cb fetish continues, When our midfield is getting overrun and has been for the whole season. When your possesion numbers are as low as our's your backline can only take so much punishment before it cracks, but why dont we play Cb's at all 11 positions then we'll be able to win.:rolleyes:

[ryan]

The Cb fetish continues, When our midfield is getting overrun and has been for the whole season. When your possesion numbers are as low as our's your backline can only take so much punishment before it cracks, but why dont we play Cb's at all 11 positions then we'll be able to win.:rolleyes:

Our mid's only get the ball by mistake. :)

[Derko]

Wow! I cant believe so many people showed up for this game! Wasting their money and time. Don't get me wrong, it was pretty empty but its still lots of money burned for nothing.

Just took a look at MLS standings.

You do realize this was NOT an MLS game, I enjoyed the game, the better team won.

[Carefree]

His value on transfermarkt is 1.5M GBP.

OK then. I guess that takes care of that. :(

[Carefree]

The Cb fetish continues, When our midfield is getting overrun and has been for the whole season. When your possesion numbers are as low as our's your backline can only take so much punishment before it cracks, but why dont we play Cb's at all 11 positions then we'll be able to win.:rolleyes:

Um, no. When we have two solid CBs in the line-up, then that will be one less thing to worry about. TFC have many issues that need to be dealt with, and lack of quality CBs has always been one of them. I never said we should ignore all the other issues and I certainly never said we should ONLY look for a CB and that it would solve ALL our problems. :facepalm:

[Derko]

I guess I no longer see the "fun" after 6 miserable years and a money whoring MLSE, doofus. If you want to sing your guts out try a karaoke bar, you might see more results.

I wish I could be as optimistic and unrealistic as some on these boards. I just don't see how Season 7 will be any different from Season 1 to 6. (W 45 L 82 T 53)

Note to MLSE: You will never see another dollar from me.

Good, then Fuck-off and stop wasting your time and breath, Will I get in trouble for calling him a sphincter of the anal kind.

I have one more post.

[Ajax TFC]

Can we keep Mariner and build something over the next three years? (I'd rather have had Winter but Mariner will do.)
Building a winning team isn't as simple as giving any person the keys for three years and magically having a winning team. The person actually has to be capable in the first place. We've already seen what his ideal players look like (Wiedeman, Amarikwa, Dunfield), and he's already gotten rid of two draft picks including a first rounder for a rental player. At this point I'd like to see some damage control and a coach who's actually shown on some level that they know how to coach and are tactically competent. Mariner is neither.

[jloome]

Doesn't address the issue of where those passes are going, or his inability to read space.

[jloome]

If we were talking about lateral play I'd agree. But he plays a ton of safe back passes and is often behind the play or just plainly badly positioned.

Dunfield is not starting quality in this league.

[__wowza]

Doesn't address the issue of where those passes are going, or his inability to read space.


If we were talking about lateral play I'd agree. But he plays a ton of safe back passes and is often behind the play or just plainly badly positioned.

Dunfield is not starting quality in this league.

as i addressed before, frings was worse off than he was.

the majority of fring's failed passes were the ones he tried to push up straight through the center (11) while the majority of the ones that landed were towards the right wing (weidemans domain). he sent in several unsuccessful crosses, i'd say maybe half of those were decent. in addition to that, both silva and frings had more backpasses than he did (frings:10/silva:6/dunfield:5/) last night.

the majority of dunfields failed passes were the ones he tried to push up the center (4), while the majority of the successful ones were the ones pushed out towards the left wing (johnson/morgan).

i'm not ragging on the lateral passing, yes, it does sometimes create meaningless possession, but i maintain that any possession is good possession (unless it's in the defensive third). you have to look for space, and in the case of last nights game he found a winning combination with johnson and morgan (whose a beast getting up the pitch). now, you can take that to mean that the johnson/morgan combo were the reason dunfields passes are hitting players in red, or you can say that our forwards were the ones letting frings down by not creating space, but at the end of the day, terry's passes were the ones that got the ball upfield. johnson/morgan worked, so he put the ball on them (and im not just talking about short, lateral passes). frings playing it down the center didn't work, yet he kept trying it.

again, you can look at a number of X factors, players failing to create space, not enough movement off the ball, etc. but if the dunfield playing the ball out to the wing kept working, and frings playing the ball up the center didn't.. why did frings persist on playing the ball up the center? even in terms of tackles resulting in loss of possession, frings had it happen 26 times, while dunfield only had it happen 9 times.

so based off of the opta chalkboard, frings gave up possession through tackles and unsuccessful passes 41 times to dunfields 17. from what i saw in re-watching the game, it's not like dunfield wasn't in space for a pass from frings, that's just not the way frings was going. im not making that shit up!

i understand that under mariner, dunfield wasn't doing that hot. he was shit.
but i honestly believe that this sentiment has transcended over to the new regime when it's completely unwarranted. the guy gave us a game tying goal, a game winning goal, and has persistently outperformed frings on a distribution based off of every statistic out there.




if dunfield isn't starting quality in the squad right now, then by all logic a guy whose given up more possesion than any of our other midfielders shouldn't be either. what more do the dunfield haters want?

[Benficachop20]

The Cb fetish continues, When our midfield is getting overrun and has been for the whole season. When your possesion numbers are as low as our's your backline can only take so much punishment before it cracks, but why dont we play Cb's at all 11 positions then we'll be able to win.:rolleyes:

lol agreed. We have to many cb's as it is. Before bringing anymore in should be letting some of the go first. I've been saying for awhile now that even though our defence isn't great, their the hardest working defence in the league because of how bad the midfield is. If ur midfield doesn't hold possession or win any tackles ever, ur leaving ur defence exposed for 90 mins. A good example is look at Santos second goal and watch Frings and Dunfield getting completely burned, this happens all the time. I like Frings but sadly i think he's done and dunfield should not be starting ever.

[OgtheDim]

Maybe Dunfield and Frings had so many bad passes up the middle because in the second half we had no height there anymore? Amerikwa can jump well but with a 50/50 ball vs. a wily better trained CD, its more like 10/90.

[ag futbol]

Well I think some of the commentary here points to the obvious: Frings and dunfield are hurting the team more often than not.

Frings looks like he has little left in the tank, dunfield ... I think we'd all agree he's not a starter in this league.

Certainly there is some problems with our system that hurts the passing game, but at the same time...

[brad]

If we were talking about lateral play I'd agree. But he plays a ton of safe back passes and is often behind the play or just plainly badly positioned.

Dunfield is not starting quality in this league.

This much I agree with. Good depth player, but not a starter.

[OgtheDim]

Other random stuff from last night:

The Bermudian CONCACAF rep who asked for a measurement of the penalty spot and 18 yard box measurements before the game. I saw him walk the spot off manually and shake his head....like his walking strides would be exact. That led to 3 BMO grounds staff coming back with him to measure and argue/discuss - with 2 guys on hand as well with paint cans if necessary. Maybe he doesn't like Mariner? (Only one of us 250 or so people in the south end around 7:25 would have seen that)

Gosh that was colder then expected - half the people were wearing shorts. TFC must have made a mint on the blankets last night. Oh...and a tea at BMO is dirt cheap in comparison to other venues.

The ref giving a yellow card to Dunfield for coming on early from his injury...even though it was the fourth official that let him on. Hope that card can be rescinded.

Santos really wanted that win last night and they know they had to work for it. The relief on Sanchez' face when the 3rd goal went in was partly because he was let off the hook from that bad punch out, but I think it was also because they knew they had a tough game.

Why was Santos support sold as a block behind our bench? (I know the answer - incompetence in the FO)

Nothing beats speed in this game....except guile. And Santos has a lot of speed and a lot of guile.

Is Mariner trying to look like one of the Hanson Bros. from SlapShot?

[Richard]

Other random stuff from last night:

The Bermudian CONCACAF rep who asked for a measurement of the penalty spot and 18 yard box measurements before the game. I saw him walk the spot off manually and shake his head....like his walking strides would be exact. That led to 3 BMO grounds staff coming back with him to measure and argue/discuss - with 2 guys on hand as well with paint cans if necessary. Maybe he doesn't like Mariner? (Only one of us 250 or so people in the south end around 7:25 would have seen that)
?

For real? He walked the distance and not used a measuring device? Thats just idiotic.

[RC8]

also like to give a shout out to the guy in 112 last night who said i was blocking his view.

cause.. you know.. the reason i spent the entire second half away from my girlfriend and another friend i brought was because i wanted to ruin your fucking view.

:facepalm:

Thanks for stepping up there. It was badly needed to get the atmosphere going.

It escapes me why someone would sit/stand in the south section, let alone 112, and refuse to join in chants. Usually in most parts of the world those who stand up are inherently willing to get singing. Here many people stand up but keep quiet... it's baffling.

[brad]

Thanks for stepping up there. It was badly needed to get the atmosphere going.

It escapes me why someone would sit/stand in the south section, let alone 112, and refuse to join in chants. Usually in most parts of the world those who stand up are inherently willing to get singing. Here many people stand up but keep quiet... it's baffling.

Probably bought it off a scalper not knowing.

[v00d00daddy]

So...anyone watch Mariners post game presser?

"Players making the same mistakes over and over is a problem. Not professional"

He also complained about Frings diving in on the second goal and said that it's irresponsible.

So....is it okay for Mariner to "throw his players under the bus"?

Cause I don't see it that way at all. I see it as a coach holding players accountable and admitting where there are issues. It's a good thing if you ask me.

Problem is....some people here see it as making excuses. Or at least they did when it was the dutch guy saying it.

Near the end with Winter there was a lot of talk about how he used poor individual performances as an excuse and when Mariner was appointed everybody gushed about him being "a players coach".

So which is it? Which coach is the good guy and which is the bad guy....because both have openly said that individual mistakes cost us points. And with that...I can not disagree.

[OgtheDim]

For real? He walked the distance and not used a measuring device? Thats just idiotic.

Yeah, I watched him. He was with the 3 match officials who were all in suits. He paced off the distance, shook his head and remarked on things. BMO staff used the measuring thing later to prove him wrong.

[jloome]

as i addressed before, frings was worse off than he was.

the majority of fring's failed passes were the ones he tried to push up straight through the center (11) while the majority of the ones that landed were towards the right wing (weidemans domain). he sent in several unsuccessful crosses, i'd say maybe half of those were decent. in addition to that, both silva and frings had more backpasses than he did (frings:10/silva:6/dunfield:5/) last night.

the majority of dunfields failed passes were the ones he tried to push up the center (4), while the majority of the successful ones were the ones pushed out towards the left wing (johnson/morgan).

i'm not ragging on the lateral passing, yes, it does sometimes create meaningless possession, but i maintain that any possession is good possession (unless it's in the defensive third). you have to look for space, and in the case of last nights game he found a winning combination with johnson and morgan (whose a beast getting up the pitch). now, you can take that to mean that the johnson/morgan combo were the reason dunfields passes are hitting players in red, or you can say that our forwards were the ones letting frings down by not creating space, but at the end of the day, terry's passes were the ones that got the ball upfield. johnson/morgan worked, so he put the ball on them (and im not just talking about short, lateral passes). frings playing it down the center didn't work, yet he kept trying it.

again, you can look at a number of X factors, players failing to create space, not enough movement off the ball, etc. but if the dunfield playing the ball out to the wing kept working, and frings playing the ball up the center didn't.. why did frings persist on playing the ball up the center? even in terms of tackles resulting in loss of possession, frings had it happen 26 times, while dunfield only had it happen 9 times.

so based off of the opta chalkboard, frings gave up possession through tackles and unsuccessful passes 41 times to dunfields 17. from what i saw in re-watching the game, it's not like dunfield wasn't in space for a pass from frings, that's just not the way frings was going. im not making that shit up!

i understand that under mariner, dunfield wasn't doing that hot. he was shit.
but i honestly believe that this sentiment has transcended over to the new regime when it's completely unwarranted. the guy gave us a game tying goal, a game winning goal, and has persistently outperformed frings on a distribution based off of every statistic out there.




if dunfield isn't starting quality in the squad right now, then by all logic a guy whose given up more possesion than any of our other midfielders shouldn't be either. what more do the dunfield haters want?

Look, you're not going to get an argument from me that Frings hasn't been horrible, because he's been pretty dire lately. But look at the passing percentages you posted and they're not much better than under Winter. Dunfield routinely passed in the high 60% range back then, too.

Now compare that to any of the starting tandem on any winning team in this league, and you'll find they're ALL over 70% consistently, and quite typically 80%.

How awful Frings has been does not change the fact that Dunfield is also awful. He picks the safest pass EVERY time, so if the guy coming back to him on the wing is the safe outlet, that's where the ball goes.

The fact that we have HALF the pass attempts of most teams we play demonstrates that no one is trying to force anything; Frings, for all his problems of age, is passing poorly because he's actively trying through balls, balls into space, balls that might actually open the other team up. Simply "Not fucking up because you haven't tried anything" is not a solid basis for being a starter.

I'm happy for the two goals; I'd be happier if he regularly dictated the pace, movement and play of the offense, ala Kyle Beckerman or Gershon Koffie or Juninho. That's what we need to compete.

Terry Dunfield? The guy couldn't start at Bury in League Two, and Barry Robson, who's now in the role at Vancouver that Dunfield was originally supposed to fill, is hardly making a go of it at this level. Barry Robson = much much much > Terry Dunfield.

[Ajax TFC]

Probably bought it off a scalper not knowing.
jeez, how hard can it really be to relocate yourself to an empty seat somewhere else when the stadium is empty?

[narduch]

The guy couldn't start at Bury in League Two

Just like Eckersley.

[Rene Kingsriver]

i agree, this is a very different sport than most, sometimes the easiest way to go forward is by moving backwards. for the most part though, when we're playing this formation it's about moving forward and getting the ball upfield as quickly as possible. if we're looking at last nights game, excluding the backpasses, we're still left with:




TOTAL
SUCCESSFUL
UNSUCCESSFUL
%


FRINGS
57
32
25
56


DUNFIELD
41
33
8
81




You'll never convince the haters.

[glaze]

Probably bought it off a scalper not knowing.

I don't want to get off topic here, but this is a serious issue that needs to be addressed going forward. While losing has alot to do with the decrease in atmosphere this season, the supporters corner from 110-113 is starting to get a really mixed crowd due to people dumping their tickets, and others wanting to be where the atmosphere is (thanks to tfc's marketing strategy) yet not willing to take part in it.
I have spent the whole season in 110-113, as well as the two dome games in the supporters corner. The liverpool game has been discussed previously, when skydome refused to honor the supporters section rules, and forced people to sit. I fear this will happen at BMO.
In the "ex" game against KC, there were many families in 112/113, and many people sitting down. If this continues, I fear MLSE will just start catering to the soccer mom crowd and outlaw the standing, singing and banners altogether.

[TFC Tifoso]

So...anyone watch Mariners post game presser?

"Players making the same mistakes over and over is a problem. Not professional"

He also complained about Frings diving in on the second goal and said that it's irresponsible.

So....is it okay for Mariner to "throw his players under the bus"?

Cause I don't see it that way at all. I see it as a coach holding players accountable and admitting where there are issues. It's a good thing if you ask me.

Problem is....some people here see it as making excuses. Or at least they did when it was the dutch guy saying it.

Near the end with Winter there was a lot of talk about how he used poor individual performances as an excuse and when Mariner was appointed everybody gushed about him being "a players coach".

So which is it? Which coach is the good guy and which is the bad guy....because both have openly said that individual mistakes cost us points. And with that...I can not disagree.

great post!.........Mariner is not a players' coach......he's a screaming buffoon........

[__wowza]

Look, you're not going to get an argument from me that Frings hasn't been horrible, because he's been pretty dire lately. But look at the passing percentages you posted and they're not much better than under Winter. Dunfield routinely passed in the high 60% range back then, too.

fair nuff, stats can be read any way people would like, that's just the way i've chosen to interpret them.

[__wowza]

Thanks for stepping up there. It was badly needed to get the atmosphere going.

It escapes me why someone would sit/stand in the south section, let alone 112, and refuse to join in chants. Usually in most parts of the world those who stand up are inherently willing to get singing.


Another reason why we need control over tickets in our section. It takes huge courage to go up there like Wowza did. And for these two crackberry obsessed idiots who don't sing a lick to be in the first row of our section is a disgrace. That they complained about their view being blocked by the capo is just disgusting.


Yeah that was totally uncalled for last night. I think his friend should have informed him about the rules. Its sad howthis guy whines about the capo and nobody told him what section he was at and just let him ramble on. Had this been any other sg say in europe or anywhere else. They would be casted out or even worse.


thanks for the support. anyone that's ever taken the stand knows how fucking hard it can be.
having someone get in your face when you're sacrificing watching 3/4ths of the game to get an atmosphere going is pretty fucking weak. thanks to you and your misses for sticking up for me during the match yags, there was no reason for them to talk to you guys like that. it was funny hearing their response when you guys got into it with them, like they were so offended that someone didn't appreciate being sworn at.

[eustacchio]

Probably bought it off a scalper not knowing.

nope, dude's there all the time.

[Yagbod]

I got a tweet yesterday from a guy called @CaptainFC or 111. He said people were sitting in 111 and complaining about the standing folks. It really is getting quite ridiculous.

[lerxst]

I got a tweet yesterday from a guy called @CaptainFC or 111. He said people were sitting in 111 and complaining about the standing folks. It really is getting quite ridiculous.

I can definitely vouch for that. Section 110 here. I had a group of degenerates telling me to sit down. I'm 6'4" 280lbs (need to lose a few...I know...stop looking at my gut).

Snarky bitch - "Gee. Sounds like a great game out there. Too bad I can't see it."
Me thinking, "Well aren't you fucking clever."

Yeah; that really brought my piss to a boil. I fucking hate being told what to do in my section by a group of asshats who I've never seen before. I basically told her that this was a standing supporters' section and that they should do the same. I got booed.

Me - "I've spent over $6k on these seats since day 1. Who are you anyway?"

Internally I was raging; like nuking-Barrie-for-no-reason raging.

Bitch - "Oh right. I stand and I still can't see over you."

Me - "Un-fucking-believable. Are you seriously telling me that you - three rows behind me - won't be able to see over me if you stand up? What are you, 2? Thanks for killing my night. You're awesome."

[lerxst]

Another reason why we need control over tickets in our section. It takes huge courage to go up there like Wowza did. And for these two crackberry obsessed idiots who don't sing a lick to be in the first row of our section is a disgrace. That they complained about their view being blocked by the capo is just disgusting.

I challenged them on their whining and offered them a seat anywhere else in the stadium and the first thing they did was call me a dickhead. No civility at all, just straight in to name calling. No respect. They should be shamed out of our section.

Fuck me. I hold this whole planet in fucking contempt after reading that.

[lerxst]

I guess I no longer see the "fun" after 6 miserable years and a money whoring MLSE, doofus. If you want to sing your guts out try a karaoke bar, you might see more results.

I wish I could be as optimistic and unrealistic as some on these boards. I just don't see how Season 7 will be any different from Season 1 to 6. (W 45 L 82 T 53)

Note to MLSE: You will never see another dollar from me.

Ok bye.

[ag futbol]

Near the end with Winter there was a lot of talk about how he used poor individual performances as an excuse and when Mariner was appointed everybody gushed about him being "a players coach".

So which is it? Which coach is the good guy and which is the bad guy....because both have openly said that individual mistakes cost us points. And with that...I can not disagree.
I've never thought Mariner was a players coach, but I can admit I was a critical of Winter's actions at the time. At the least, you have to appreciate the irony: the guy who was in charge while TFC turned over 80% of its roster then said the players aren't performing. Clearly the manager who was picking those players wasn't performing either. That being said, I can appreciate that he was at the end of his rope and that is a card you can play to try and fire up the players a bit. This is actually part of my problem with the disciplinarian types... all they do is hit that button. At first the players respond, but after a while they just tone it out.. You rip the players too often they no longer see it as a useful message and they start to question the managers authority.

[starter]

I've never thought Mariner was a players coach, but I can admit I was a critical of Winter's actions at the time. At the least, you have to appreciate the irony: the guy who was in charge while TFC turned over 80% of its roster then said the players aren't performing. Clearly the manager who was picking those players wasn't performing either. That being said, I can appreciate that he was at the end of his rope and that is a card you can play to try and fire up the players a bit. This is actually part of my problem with the disciplinarian types... all they do is hit that button. At first the players respond, but after a while they just tone it out.. You rip the players too often they no longer see it as a useful message and they start to question the managers authority.

I am sure Winter ( and Mariner ) went to much greater lengths behind closed doors to point out mistakes to the players, which were substantiated to make them take notice. What said in public is just PR moves. Winter projected much more civilized approach on sidelines, and expected players to act as professionals without public show of affection. Not in Mr. Mariner circus though...

[JuliquE]

Look, you're not going to get an argument from me that Frings hasn't been horrible, because he's been pretty dire lately. But look at the passing percentages you posted and they're not much better than under Winter. Dunfield routinely passed in the high 60% range back then, too.

Now compare that to any of the starting tandem on any winning team in this league, and you'll find they're ALL over 70% consistently, and quite typically 80%.

How awful Frings has been does not change the fact that Dunfield is also awful. He picks the safest pass EVERY time, so if the guy coming back to him on the wing is the safe outlet, that's where the ball goes.

The fact that we have HALF the pass attempts of most teams we play demonstrates that no one is trying to force anything; Frings, for all his problems of age, is passing poorly because he's actively trying through balls, balls into space, balls that might actually open the other team up. Simply "Not fucking up because you haven't tried anything" is not a solid basis for being a starter.

I'm happy for the two goals; I'd be happier if he regularly dictated the pace, movement and play of the offense, ala Kyle Beckerman or Gershon Koffie or Juninho. That's what we need to compete.

Terry Dunfield? The guy couldn't start at Bury in League Two, and Barry Robson, who's now in the role at Vancouver that Dunfield was originally supposed to fill, is hardly making a go of it at this level. Barry Robson = much much much > Terry Dunfield.
Such a breath of fresh air, this post.

I would only disagree with you re: Frings; I don't think a whole lot has changed with his fitness or ability, over the course of one year. He wasn't bagging goals under Winter and isn't now, under Mariner. I think it's obvious that in order for a player long in tooth to have continued success, he has to play a more cerebral brand of football and have a system in support of this. In absence of the latter, you expose his shortcomings; I don't think Frings would have signed up if he thought he would have to be bombing down the pitch, going after long balls or being bypassed, in the midfield, altogether.

Also: #MarinerGetsShitDone (I've always wanted to say that)

[jazzy]

I got a tweet yesterday from a guy called @CaptainFC or 111. He said people were sitting in 111 and complaining about the standing folks. It really is getting quite ridiculous.

it's mainly in the concacaff games where newbies get sth's tickets