TFC in-season player movement general discussion/rumours/speculation thread

[Oldtimer]

After polling our members, we are moving to a "one thread per player" method for discussing confirmed or highly likely player movements. General discussion, rumours without sources, and speculation can go in this thread. Feel free to discuss our roster here.

[__wowza]

i'd like to also note in addition to OT's comments, one thread per highly likely player movements IS NOT free reign to post things like "i heard from a friend who spoke with ______ who said he was interested in coming here.."


postings of the sort will result in your immediate rocket propelled ejection into the sun.

[Canary10]

^ At the risk of speeding up my expulsion to the sun......So what was up with all these Emile Heskie to TFC rumours that were bouncing all over EPL website over the weekend?

[Fort York Redcoat]

^ At the risk of speeding up my expulsion to the sun......So what was up with all these Emile Heskie to TFC rumours that were bouncing all over EPL website over the weekend?

It was started by a brand new rumour site, tweeter = unreliable or troll/joke.

[brad]

Personally, I think there should be some judgement here. If reputable (or semi-reputable) sources are reporting rumors like the Heskey situation, then I think threads should be allowed. If they are not, people will just talk about it in another thread.

[T-boy]

Just a suggestion - another forum I'm on has two different "transfer" threads. One is "Transfers - News ONLY (No discussion)", and the other is "Transfer gossip/rumours/discussion".

Would separating the two threads work here also? Mods can then move all non NEWS (rumours gossip etc) to the discussion thread, and keep the news thread tidy.

[brad]

^^I like T-boys suggestion. I personally like hearing the gossip as well as the legit dealings. And some of the legit transfers have been broken here first through inside info.

[Oldtimer]

Just a suggestion - another forum I'm on has two different "transfer" threads. One is "Transfers - News ONLY (No discussion)", and the other is "Transfer gossip/rumours/discussion".

Would separating the two threads work here also? Mods can then move all non NEWS (rumours gossip etc) to the discussion thread, and keep the news thread tidy.

The mod team discussed it a while back. The only way to keep it clean would be to have it moderator posting only... and I think that denime (who handles the news) has enough work as it is. If you look at the daily news, he always puts in actual transfer news that comes from media sources. Anything from reliable inside sources will now have its own thread. Any other stuff/rumours/wish lists should be posted in this miscellaneous thread.

[Oldtimer]

^ At the risk of speeding up my expulsion to the sun......So what was up with all these Emile Heskie to TFC rumours that were bouncing all over EPL website over the weekend?

Actually, this thread is exactly the place to discuss unproven rumours of the sort.

[TOBOR !]

i'd like to also note in addition to OT's comments, one thread per highly likely player movements IS NOT free reign to post things like "i heard from a friend who spoke with ______ who said he was interested in coming here.."


postings of the sort will result in your immediate rocket propelled ejection into the sun.

But what if (say) I work at a downtown hotel (which I don't) and I see a couple of rival MLS execs milling about the lobby (which I didn't) and I surmised that this must mean that player X (at the time out of favour with said rival MLS club) might be on his way here ?

Could I post this *COUGH*Eric Hassli*COUGH* ?

[Fort York Redcoat]

But what if (say) I work at a downtown hotel (which I don't) and I see a couple of rival MLS execs milling about the lobby (which I didn't) and I surmised that this must mean that player X (at the time out of favour with said rival MLS club) might be on his way here ?

Could I post this *COUGH*Eric Hassli*COUGH* ?

If your scanners caught them yourself, robot, absolutely. Now if it was your bf the hoteler that told you about it...not so much.

[TOBOR !]

If your scanners caught them yourself, robot, absolutely. Now if it was your bf the hoteler that told you about it...not so much.

Ah, I see the subtle difference.

On the one hand we have a flimsy, gossamer-like theory, while on the other we have someone else's flimsy, gossamer like theory.

[__wowza]

Ah, I see the subtle difference.

On the one hand we have a flimsy, gossamer-like theory, while on the other we have someone else's flimsy, gossamer like theory.

i'm thinking legit in one thread; speculation in this one.
if someone would like to step up and make a thread based on a sighting, they're free to do so if they understand the consequences of being wrong. lest we forget, we've dragged journalists covering the team through the mud for the exact same thing. here i reckon they'd just get negative rep, thread closure, cries of bullshit and lest we forget.. ejection into the sun.

[nonc]

what are the Ascenso MX salaries like? we should be looking at the young Mexican players who don't quite make Liga MX youth squads.

EDIT: Diego Forlan while we're at it.

[gracos]

I am hoping Maurice Edu, Carlos Bocanegra, or even Clint Dempsey decides to return to the MLS and we can sign them via Allocation, because we would have a 1st pick overall, plus be 1st overall in allocation ranking for next year, just crossing my fingers the opportunity arises

[[NBF]]

I am hoping Maurice Edu, Carlos Bocanegra, or even Clint Dempsey decides to return to the MLS and we can sign them via Allocation, because we would have a 1st pick overall, plus be 1st overall in allocation ranking for next year, just crossing my fingers the opportunity arises

Maurice Edu = Stoke City(done deal)

Carlos Bocanegra = Eintracht Frankfurt (Rumour)

Clint Dempsey = Tottenham or Sunderland(Rumour)

[khso11]

Del Piero and Gattuso's on the free agent list, but maybe there're too old

[West220Side]

Del Piero and Gattuso's on the free agent list, but maybe there're too old

Gennaro Gattuso was signed by FC Sion in Switzerland I believe along with Kyle Lafferty. Gattuso was even awarded the armband at the club I think.
As far as Del Piero goes he's pretty old, but you can't doubt his quality. Read that he wanted to go to China most likely, but he's also a big fan of the NBA.

[Fort York Redcoat]

;1523920']Maurice Edu = Stoke City(done deal)

Carlos Bocanegra = Eintracht Frankfurt (Rumour)

Clint Dempsey = Tottenham or Sunderland(Rumour)

Thanks for info, NBF!
Glad to hear Edu isn't giving up on playing overseas yet. The other two are almost ready to come home heros.

[Yohan]

Thanks for info, NBF!
Glad to hear Edu isn't giving up on playing overseas yet. The other two are almost ready to come home heros.
Dempsey isn't coming back to MLS. Probably not for another 3-4 yrs.

Very odd year for allocation draft, as normally you don't get this many players end up on allocation list. Well, let's see if anyone else falls to MLS in next two weeks or so.

[West220Side]

As I posted in the Carlos Bocanegra thread, it seems he'll be moving to Spain.

http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/2012/08/31/american-exports-all-eyes-dempsey-transfer-day


Carlos BocanegraThere's continuing interest from England and France, but a source told MLSsoccer.com that the negotiating table was still waiting to see offers with nine hours left in the market.
Meanwhile, on Friday morning, a Spanish report claimed that second flight Racing Santander was on the verge of bringing Bocanegra to Spain.
The US captain has already spurned Eintracht Frankfurt and Olympiakos this summer. Bocanegra also entertained interest from at least two MLS clubs.

[narduch]

The roster freeze is coming up on the 15th. Is TFC going to be making any more moves? Particularly with Frings out.

Or are we destined to finish the season with a shortened bench most games.

[ryan]

The roster freeze is coming up on the 15th. Is TFC going to be making any more moves? Particularly with Frings out.

Or are we destined to finish the season with a shortened bench most games.

Short bench, long bench...does it matter?

[narduch]

Short bench, long bench...does it matter?

If you are going to make zero subs, I guess not.

[moralis]

Paul Mariner are you paying attention: Sign Kevin McKenna.

Kurtis Larson ‏@KurtLarSUN (https://twitter.com/KurtLarSUN) McKenna: 'We'll see' about potential MLS move in 2013.

https://twitter.com/KurtLarSUN/status/243749118437122049

[Ultra & Proud]

The roster freeze is coming up on the 15th. Is TFC going to be making any more moves? Particularly with Frings out.

Or are we destined to finish the season with a shortened bench most games.
I'd rather us just let our young players have the chance to get in there, live with the results, and evaluate them for next season.

Unless we can lock up a player like McKenna for this season and beyond and give him some time to get settled. I wouldn't get any short term, temp players though.

[MartinUtd]

With Frings out, it's time to start some rumours. How about...

Nigel Reo-Coker to TFC!?

If West Ham don't take him, he won't be in the premier league.

[moralis]

TFC was close to signing Kevin McKenna this summer:

http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/2014-world-cup/2012/09/06/gerry_dobson_canada_panama_kevin_mckenna/

[TOBOR !]

I'm prepared to say that this has been the worst season evar.

[Ultra & Proud]

I'm prepared to say that this has been the worst season evar.

I was ready to say that after week 9.

Anyone know if this Ugandan kid is actually trialling with TFC? Read a few articles about it. I am pretty sure it won't pan out but I'm just curious.

[gracos]

I was ready to say that after week 9.

Anyone know if this Ugandan kid is actually trialling with TFC? Read a few articles about it. I am pretty sure it won't pan out but I'm just curious.

Which Ugandan player are you talking about, I believe TFC sits still, and does nothing but who knows anymore, it is MLSE afterall

[gracos]

Wells Thompson has requested a trade, because he feels he hasnt have enough time, would it be wise to see if Toronto could pick him up on the cheap, and see what he could give to us, and then decide if he should look for another club at the end of the season http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/2012/09/09/rapids-thompson-requests-trade-seeks-more-time

[Yohan]

I kinda think of Wells Thompson as slightly better passer than Dunfield. He'll give you 100% all the time, but frankly is a depth player in MLS.

[khso11]

Apearently Luke Boden (from Orlando City, ex-Sheffield Wednesday) is trying out today, Paul Stalteri also came to "visit Jimmy B". Would Paul be a good pick-up considering he's just back from injury and 34 years-old?

[gracos]

lol, what a twist of fate, Wells Thompson will be at the next game just not for us, he signed with Chicago

http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/2012/09/10/pt-scant-colorado-thompson-knew-it-was-time-go

[Pint]

Marcus tracy has signed with MLS and will be assigned via lottery according the MLS twitter

[Yohan]

Marcus tracy has signed with MLS and will be assigned via lottery according the MLS twitter
http://www.soccerbyives.net/soccer_by_ives/2012/09/tracy-signs-with-mls.html

Kinda reeks like another OBrian White to me. Pass

[gracos]

We have to figure out if MLS will resign any other players within the next 4 days, so I would consider signing Marcus Tracy, and them trade him if he doesnt work into our plans, but we need to use the Allocation Ranking sooner than later due to the deadline being on September 15th

[Yohan]

We have to figure out if MLS will resign any other players within the next 4 days, so I would consider signing Marcus Tracy, and them trade him if he doesnt work into our plans, but we need to use the Allocation Ranking sooner than later due to the deadline being on September 15th

lottery is different player acquisition mechanism than allocation

[[NBF]]

O.B.White would be decent right now. Build a team around three guys, Wiedeman, Amarikwa, and O.B.White.

[ensco]

*whiling away the time during blackout in Panama City*

Does allocation order reset after Sep 15? I think so, which means "use it or lose it" ...

[prizby]

marcus tracy was thought to be someone who'd be drafted ahead of steve zakuani in 2009, before people knew he had signed in Denmark


*whiling away the time during blackout in Panama City*

Does allocation order reset after Sep 15? I think so, which means "use it or lose it" ...

no after sept 15, no more roster additions; meaning it will revert to the season ending standings (still us as of right now)

[West220Side]

Do we have ANOTHER goalkeeper on trial? During todays Darren O'Dea interview I noticed somebody wearing the #1 shirt approach Mariner. Seemed to young to be a coach.
http://www.torontofc.ca/video/2012/09/10/darren-odea-september-10-2012
5.26 to be exact.

[KGH]

Looks super young. Could be an academy kid?

[ag futbol]

^ Maybe a former one?

Looks like what's his face that was connected to TFC way back in years one and two. Name escapes me, he left to pay in Scandinavia and that was the last I ever heard of him... Somebody must know who I'm talking about here

[narduch]

^ Maybe a former one?

Looks like what's his face that was connected to TFC way back in years one and two. Name escapes me, he left to pay in Scandinavia and that was the last I ever heard of him... Somebody must know who I'm talking about here

Monsalve? Isn't he with Edmonton?

[ag futbol]

That's the one... I guess that rules him out of the equation.

[gracos]

we decided to sit out of a lottery to recieve a free player bought and contract on the MLS, it frustrates me even management dont take a chance and do something to improve the chances of TFC, I believe anyone could and would manage TFC better than the current situation

[narduch]

After signing O'Dea, we probably don't have the cap space to even win this lottery.

[jloome]

we decided to sit out of a lottery to recieve a free player bought and contract on the MLS, it frustrates me even management dont take a chance and do something to improve the chances of TFC, I believe anyone could and would manage TFC better than the current situation

My understanding on these lotteries is they ask the player in advance where he'd be willing to play.

[Ultra & Proud]

My understanding on these lotteries is they ask the player in advance where he'd be willing to play.
This is true. Also this guy wouldn't be a good answer anyway. Would want too much cash and would be a huge risk for a player with blown out knees. We did that whole taking risks on potential thing and it rarely worked out. I hope we're smart enough to look at established and/or MLS proven players for next season.

[Greatest Ripoff]

^ Maybe a former one?

Looks like what's his face that was connected to TFC way back in years one and two. Name escapes me, he left to pay in Scandinavia and that was the last I ever heard of him... Somebody must know who I'm talking about here

It's hard to see but it could be Adam Street. Former U23 Canadian keeper who used to be with West Ham. Was training with the team this summer.

[deschamp86]

Definitely not Adam Street

http://www.whufc.com/javaImages/ba/85/0,,12562~3769786,00.jpg

[ag futbol]

This is true. Also this guy wouldn't be a good answer anyway. Would want too much cash and would be a huge risk for a player with blown out knees. We did that whole taking risks on potential thing and it rarely worked out. I hope we're smart enough to look at established and/or MLS proven players for next season.
I don't think his asking price would be that high considering his injuries. He's already signed a deal with MLS and probably wasn't negotiating from a position of strength.

Maybe it works out for both parties, but considering we're thin up top and he fits in up there it's odd we'd take a pass.

[gracos]

Toronto FC traded allocation ranking for a conditional pick, lol, TFC could of instantly improved somewhat, and now we arent even guaranteed to even sign any players, it just frustrates me the mentality management has for this team

[Yohan]

Toronto FC traded allocation ranking for a conditional pick, lol, TFC could of instantly improved somewhat, and now we arent even guaranteed to even sign any players, it just frustrates me the mentality management has for this team
highly doubt TFC could have signed any players using allocation ranking due to lack of cap space. At least TFC got a pick out of allocation order.

[nfitz]

Doesn't allocation order reboot at the end of the season, with us getting the number 1 spot (based on our current ranking)?

What would we have done with a 40-year old keeper?

How long has it been since players were even allocated this late in the season? Seems like an excellent move to me. Something for nothing.

[narduch]

Doesn't allocation order reboot at the end of the season, with us getting the number 1 spot (based on our current ranking)?

What would we have done with a 40-year old keeper?

How long has it been since players were even allocated this late in the season? Seems like an excellent move to me. Something for nothing.

The point is that TFC had a high allocation spot all season and didn't use it until the last day.

TFC always poorly uses its assets, and then some wonder why our roster is so awful.

[denime]

highly doubt tfc could have signed any players using allocation ranking due the fact that no player wants to come here. at least tfc got a pick out of allocation order.

Fixed ;)

[gracos]

Doesn't allocation order reboot at the end of the season, with us getting the number 1 spot (based on our current ranking)?

What would we have done with a 40-year old keeper?

How long has it been since players were even allocated this late in the season? Seems like an excellent move to me. Something for nothing.

We are not guaranteed anything even if we took a player from them, or released a contract to them with our allocation order we could be guaranteed usage, but we recieved a conditional draft pick meaning they dont have to give us a pick unless they meet their conditions, which is completely out of our hands, even some extra money would of been useful for our allocation order but management, just doesnt understand the way the MLS works

[nfitz]

The point is that TFC had a high allocation spot all season and didn't use it until the last day.High? We were number 4. Only 6 players have been allocated. Kamani Hill back in March was not picked up by the number 2 through 10 spots, so Winter was hardly alone in rejecting him. Perhaps a mistake with 20/20 hindsight, but no one else was jumping up to take him. The only other player Toronto could have taken (other than the 40-year old keeper) was keeper Luis Robles on August 8th, who was also not picked up quickly, going to the 13th spot. What would we have done with a 5th keeper?


TFC always poorly uses its assets, and then some wonder why our roster is so awful.That might well be true, but I don't think the 2012 allocation is evidence of that.

[ag futbol]

Was reading the V's board, TFCA grad Skylar Thomas seems to be having a good season, he's on the short-list of top draw soccer's player of the year voting (and currently leads the pole). We could turn this guy into a GA signing without using a draft pick on him.

http://www.topdrawersoccer.com/the91stminute/2012/09/5v5-college-season-review-poll/

Add it to the potentially long list of assets TFC can use to get better next year.

[golaso.gol]

Skylar Thomas is not a TFCA grad, he played for a local club for many years. This past summer he trained for a while with TFC, but that would not afford him home grown status. Glad to see he is doing well at Syracuse.

[[NBF]]

Skylar Thomas is not a TFCA grad, he played for a local club for many years. This past summer he trained for a while with TFC, but that would not afford him home grown status. Glad to see he is doing well at Syracuse.

Since we're talking young Canadians, whats the future of the following:


Are they planning on going to University or College?

GK- Quinlan Roberts
DF- Nikola Paunic
DF- Tyler Pasher
MF- Sergio Camargo
FW- Omari Morris
FW- Jordan Hamilton
Are these two planning on staying with the team?

MF- Josh Janniere?
MF- Alberto Giuliatto?

[Greatest Ripoff]

;1533349']Since we're talking young Canadians, whats the future of the following:


Are they planning on going to University or College?

GK- Quinlan Roberts
FW- Omari Morris


Morris is currently at Akron and Roberts had committed to a school (can't remember which) but i am guessing he decided to stay with TFC as he was on the bench for the last game. Roberts is also going with the Canadian U20 for a tournament in Spain later this month.

[deschamp86]

Morris is currently at Akron and Roberts had committed to a school (can't remember which) but i am guessing he decided to stay with TFC as he was on the bench for the last game. Roberts is also going with the Canadian U20 for a tournament in Spain later this month.

Roberts can't play for a school as he is a professional.

[denime]

Roberts can't play for a school as he is a professional.

He can not get to school?

He can not play for school or get scholarship,but he definitely can go to school for his education and diploma.

[deschamp86]

He can not get to school?

He can not play for school or get scholarship,but he definitely can go to school for his education and diploma.

Yes. I said he can't play for a school

[Red CB Toronto]

He can not get to school?

He can not play for school or get scholarship,but he definitely can go to school for his education and diploma.

He could play for a Canadian University as the CIS has different rules.

[mcolvy]

Honestly, what direction should the team take? If Mariner might be gone and we have a new coach, do we go back to the 4-3-3 like everyone in the academy is learning? Do you change it up again? What players do you bring in? Where do you start, even if you have a new front office? I didnt think TFC was that far off in bringing in two different piece in Mariner and Winter to build the club. One to coach and that has international connections. And another with MLS experience. I would have liked to see a "coach" and a "GM" set up, like other NA sports, with the GM being the man in complete control. One man cannot manage the detailed finances of the teams cap, while also keeping up with the day to day managing of the club. I think that leaves TWO spots to fill and here is no other choice but to bring in a proven MLS guy to be the GM. The coach can then be chosen based pun whoever is chosen.

[[NBF]]

Honestly, what direction should the team take? If Mariner might be gone and we have a new coach, do we go back to the 4-3-3 like everyone in the academy is learning? Do you change it up again? What players do you bring in? Where do you start, even if you have a new front office? I didnt think TFC was that far off in bringing in two different piece in Mariner and Winter to build the club. One to coach and that has international connections. And another with MLS experience. I would have liked to see a "coach" and a "GM" set up, like other NA sports, with the GM being the man in complete control. One man cannot manage the detailed finances of the teams cap, while also keeping up with the day to day managing of the club. I think that leaves TWO spots to fill and here is no other choice but to bring in a proven MLS guy to be the GM. The coach can then be chosen based pun whoever is chosen.

I dont think Mariner or Winter agreed on working together and Mariner was willing to let Winter fail so that he could get the three year extension and ultimate control of a team, which incidently means being your own boss and not being held accountable to noone.

Where do you start? In MLS I think it comes down to hiring a Manager first who is in charge of the players coming and going, and then a Head Coach who is literally that, a trainer.

[mcolvy]

;1534622']I dont think Mariner or Winter agreed on working together and Mariner was willing to let Winter fail so that he could get the three year extension and ultimate control of a team, which incidently means being your own boss and not being held accountable to noone.

Where do you start? In MLS I think it comes down to hiring a Manager first who is in charge of the players coming and going, and then a Head Coach who is literally that, a trainer.

Exactly. And the Manager is in charge. The coach can be like we need some depth at cb or need a spark on the offensive end, but all decisions are the managers.. Gms..

[ag futbol]

;1534622']I dont think Mariner or Winter agreed on working together and Mariner was willing to let Winter fail so that he could get the three year extension and ultimate control of a team, which incidently means being your own boss and not being held accountable to noone.

Where do you start? In MLS I think it comes down to hiring a Manager first who is in charge of the players coming and going, and then a Head Coach who is literally that, a trainer.
+1. I think that model makes a lot of sense for this league.

[brad]

So long as the manager hires their own coach. If left to MLSE, they'll hire a manager and a coach that are not on the same page, and it will be more of the same.

[JayMolly]

So long as the manager hires their own coach. If left to MLSE, they'll hire a manager and a coach that are not on the same page, and it will be more of the same.

I agree. The manager should hire the coach, but unfortunately MLSE doesn't use common sense!

[sashavukelich]

Boa-Morte Signs with Chesterfield (league 2)

http://www.teamtalk.com/news/2483/8155726/Chesterfield-deal-for-Boa-Morte

[mcolvy]

But this isn't as unfamiliar territory as you make it out to be. The system described above is the same as a Maple Leafs, Raptors set up. Except they happen to have the GM also in charge as the president.. which isn't actually good (but they both do have very involved Assistant Gms and I'm not at all for having a GM/President in the same role). But thats a typical NHL set up and surely MLSE knows how to run a hockey tea... oh wait.... nvm.


I think there will always be guys in the back doing the grunt work. I mean we have assistants to the GM. To Cochrane to PM. There will always be those guys assisting. its not like Mariner literally has too many jobs to do to complete them all. He just can't be on top of everything as well as he should.

I think you get a proven MLS mind in there ASAP as your GM and let him pick a coach of his choosing from there. But, at the same time this isn't like hockey where coaches are seemingly interchangeable. Soccers a more tactical sport. The GM obviously has familiar styles and he obviously will choose a coach that will give him the brand he wants.

On a side note. I do see a place for Bob de Klerk, as I personally love the guy. What a character. He's also a hardass and I think thats a solid coaching style.

I support the team playing possession football. Forget formations and crap, a 4-4-2, 4-3-3, and 4-2-3-1 are actually just variations of the same format and based on the coaching tactics and player positioning they can look the same or different. Playing style is what matters for me.

[mcolvy]

I would like to explain my formations brainchild. Prove how 4-4-2 4-3-3 and 4-2-3-1 can be the same thing.

Ill break each one down to satisfy the 4-2-3-1 because it has a four part _-_-_-_ breakdown

All three have a back 4. Easy. Still following?

If we take the 2 central midfielders of the 442 and put them in as playing shallower then it satisfies.
If our 443 plays with a "point forward" midfield, which Winter always used then that 2 is satisfied.

If we take our 2 outside midfielders from the 442 and get them to play a more attacking style (think Man U) then they can be the outside wingers of the "3" in a 4231.
If we assume the 4-4-2 isn't playing hoof ball with two target men, then we can identify that they play with one target man and a second, support striker, a #10?
He will fall in behind the striker. Kind of where the wingers would be pushing up to, correct?

If we take the 443 midfielder who is at the top of the "point forward", and the one who is generally regarded as the #10, and then tell our Wing Strikers (of the 433) to play a shallower game, in which they sit back to help defend high pressure style and also receive the ball further down the field. The 3 in the 4231 is satisfied.

The 442 is now left with its single target man to represent the 1 in the 4231.
The 433 has the Central Striker who is not drifting down to support as the 1 in the 4231.

Point proven.
(Winters system looked more like a 4-2-3-1 with Johnson in the #10 slot anyways... just saying.)

[denime]

Toronto has Brazilian twins Paulo and Pedro Mendes in on trial. Mariner heard about them from Eric Wynalda, a friend and former U.S. striker who had them at the Atlanta Silverbacks. "They've not done bad," said Mariner. "I think we need to see them in full battle dress. Obviously training is much different. But you get an idea of what they've got." Any further exposure will wait until next season, he said. The twins play forward and midfield. ..

http://www.cp24.com/sports/cupboard-almost-bare-for-tfc-in-home-finale-1.1002774#ixzz29m7L8oIH

[ag futbol]

Looks like they play for Atlanta silverbacks

[Heepster]

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/league-of-ireland/zayed-set-to-stay-abroad-3287973.html
Eamon Zayed ... appears on the brink of severing his ties with his Iranian club Persepolis ... likely he'll continue his foreign odyssey.
Offers from two MLS clubs, one believed to be Darren O'Dea's Toronto, and outfits in the Gulf nations such as Qatar ...

[Alonso]

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/league-of-ireland/zayed-set-to-stay-abroad-3287973.html


I wonder if they could get him on a non-DP contract?

His career stats seem pretty good, he might have a good go here... and em... tear the league apart of course.

[narduch]

I wonder if they could get him on a non-DP contract?

His career stats seem pretty good, he might have a good go here... and em... tear the league apart of course.

Would we need to even pay DP wages for this player? Most of his career is in Ireland.

[Alonso]

Would we need to even pay DP wages for this player? Most of his career is in Ireland.


I'm assuming no. And I guess what I meant was could they bring him in under the max salary cap hit.

I think O'dea and Eckersley are over paid for example.

[sully]

My guess is he's be in the $100,000 to $150,000 range.

[Ajax TFC]

Would we need to even pay DP wages for this player? Most of his career is in Ireland.
no, just 450k:facepalm:

[Yohan]

This guy should be trialing. Though gotta wonder if ODea has anything to do w this

[SirBobSaget]

He's only played in weak leagues, mostly Ireland which is no better than Blue Square. Any decent Irish player gets developed by teams in England and whats gets left in Ireland are semi-pros. Waste of time, international slot and discovery signing to drag this guy over. He's 29 so cant imagine much upside.

So this is what we have to look forward to this off season.

[Suds]

I wonder if JM has heard some rumours on who is on their way out??


John Molinaro ‏@JohnMolinaro (https://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro) Expect #TFC (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23TFC&src=hash) to start cutting players next week when Mariner is back from Europe scouting trip. Some interesting decisions will be made.



https://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro

[SirBobSaget]

Not that I agree with this, but these are my cut players predictions based on the logic of a mad man:
Kocic
Roberts
Harden
Cann
Avila
Stinson
Cordon
Makayuba
Lindsay

[narduch]

I wonder if JM has heard some rumours on who is on their way out??



https://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro

So his scouting trip was only what, 2 weeks?

Like I said, this sounds more like a vacation than a scouting trip.

[reggie]

no worries...PM has got the big 4 wks scouting trip to bermuda lined up over the holidays..
the bermuda soccer fed jus put a fresh coat of paint on his beach front soccer office....

[Suds]

So his scouting trip was only what, 2 weeks?

Like I said, this sounds more like a vacation than a scouting trip.

It's an assumption, I know, but I would guess they have been tracking players prior to his trip and this is the opportunity to see them play live and meet their agents.

[sashavukelich]

It's an assumption, I know, but I would guess they have been tracking players prior to his trip and this is the opportunity to see them play live and meet their agents.

suds, that's not an assumption. you're 100% right that's what they're doing as PM intimated during his end-of-season interview. :)

[soccer]

Under the Mo Jo regime, TFC was getting players from a select group of agents. You could count the size of the group on one hand. The agents, and the regime, would receive kickbacks. You think its a coincidence Mo Jo is no longer involved with the league? Its still going on today, hence the Bermuda gold mine of players and the south american players that were recommended by Cochrane to Winter.

[West220Side]

He's on his way out of Chelsea, so i've got to say it!

Lets get fat Frank Lampard! :)

[Connon_1991]

He's on his way out of Chelsea, so i've got to say it!

Lets get fat Frank Lampard! :)

Lets not disrespect super Frank like that.... Even he wouldnt lower his standard to this pish.

[ag futbol]

Under the Mo Jo regime, TFC was getting players from a select group of agents. You could count the size of the group on one hand. The agents, and the regime, would receive kickbacks. You think its a coincidence Mo Jo is no longer involved with the league? Its still going on today, hence the Bermuda gold mine of players and the south american players that were recommended by Cochrane to Winter.
Wouldn't shock me, these rumors have floated around for a while.

Others have pointed this out before, but the way TFC has set itself up (inexperienced front office, lack of oversight from a president) they are potentially vulnerable to cheap hucksters.

[Section 117]

Wouldn't shock me, these rumors have floated around for a while.

Others have pointed this out before, but the way TFC has set itself up (inexperienced front office, lack of oversight from a president) they are potentially vulnerable to cheap hucksters.


The thing is that agents call all the time trying to get players try outs or contracts... The problem is that between Mo, Preki and Mariner they all go out of their way to sign players where they will get kick backs period. Putting a competitive team on the pitch is secondary to lining their pockets. Just go through the rosters and you can easily pick out which players which our FO was getting a kick back.

[Initial B]

The thing is that agents call all the time trying to get players try outs or contracts... The problem is that between Mo, Preki and Mariner they all go out of their way to sign players where they will get kick backs period. Putting a competitive team on the pitch is secondary to lining their pockets. Just go through the rosters and you can easily pick out which players which our FO was getting a kick back.
That's a pretty serious allegation - especially with all the corruption probes going on right now. Do you have hard evidence to back up your statements? I prefer to think of the FO as simply incompetent rather than corrupt.

[brad]

The thing is that agents call all the time trying to get players try outs or contracts... The problem is that between Mo, Preki and Mariner they all go out of their way to sign players where they will get kick backs period. Putting a competitive team on the pitch is secondary to lining their pockets. Just go through the rosters and you can easily pick out which players which our FO was getting a kick back.

An interesting article for the blogsphere would be a look at our past players and what agents represented them. Paging Pookie :)

[narduch]

That's a pretty serious allegation - especially with all the corruption probes going on right now. Do you have hard evidence to back up your statements? I prefer to think of the FO as simply incompetent rather than corrupt.


Mista was a prime example.

But I think the Bermudan's and Aceval and Caicedo are pretty good speculations.

A few years back there was a scandal over this in England. With our limp media I doubt anything like this will ever be uncovered here.

But considering how this team is run, I don't doubt for a second that it is and was happening at TFC. The rumours of this happening here (escpecially under Mo Johnston) have been circulating for years. This isn't the first time that I've seen it mentioned that it still goes on.

[19Barrett19]

If i was managing this team i would keep the following players
4-4-2 Diamond Formation

----------------------Frie------------------------------
(Roberts)
Eks-----------(?)------------O'Dea-----------Morgan
(?) Henry Emo (Pasher)
thats what the back line should look like Get rid of Cann, Harden, Williams, and Hall<---the worst defender ever at TFC!

----------------------?----------------------------
(Dunfield)
(Maund)
Frings is old, Dunfiled a good sub, maund is learning. If you can't get quality to replace our Capt. then keep him.

Lambe---------------------------------------Avial
(Amerikwa) (Plata)
Lambe will be better next year, Avila is technically gifited. I really hope plata comes back and is not sour.

---------------------Silva-----------------------
(?)
(Avila)
Silva is a good player for the money he makes. Avila can fill in but we need a natural AMid to back up silva.

------------Koef--------------(?)-----------------
(?) (Lindsey)
Best finisher in MLS in Keof!!! Lindsey should be in the fold as spare parts.


Johnson won't come back to TFC but neither should Hasli at his salary and DP Lable! We need 2 more strikers one of those should be a Starter. Keep in mind there is still Makabuya behind Lindsey.

Starting CB to pair with O'Dea and to teach Henry how to handle and the young defenders how to handle late game situations. Back up for Eks at low cost.
Sign Pasher the kid is awsome!

So thats 6 players we need to have a chance to compete properly in the MLS. Kinda what Mariner said at the press conference.

What do you guys think? I will try to post Salaries and see where we would stand in next years cap system.

[gracos]

I cannot wait till December 1st to see the free agent list, for MLS, with each season passing the crop of players will improve and we might be able to do something

[MG42]

Not that I agree with this, but these are my cut players predictions based on the logic of a mad man:
Kocic
Roberts
Harden
Cann
Avila
Stinson
Cordon
Makayuba
Lindsay

You were not too far off lol

http://www.torontosun.com/2012/11/15/tfc-releases-adrian-cann-five-others

[prizby]

Not that I agree with this, but these are my cut players predictions based on the logic of a mad man:
Kocic
Roberts
Harden
Cann
Avila
Stinson
Cordon
Makayuba
Lindsay

why would roberts get cut?

[Oranje]

why would roberts get cut?

because he is a young canadian

[19Barrett19]

is it possible that mariner wants to bring in another ginger from what im hearing he was scouting in Scandinavia (Denmark,Sweden,Norway,Iceland)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Eckersley_(footballer) is this our Eks' brother?

[SirBobSaget]

is it possible that mariner wants to bring in another ginger from what im hearing he was scouting in Scandinavia (Denmark,Sweden,Norway,Iceland)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Eckersley_(footballer) is this our Eks' brother?

He is a Left Back. R Eckersley is a Right Back. Wouldn't it be neat to have the brothers line up side by side in the middle of D? Adam at LCD, Richard at RCD (O'Dea can play FullBack).

[cmonyoureds]

He is a Left Back. R Eckersley is a Right Back. Wouldn't it be neat to have the brothers line up side by side in the middle of D? Adam at LCD, Richard at RCD (O'Dea can play FullBack).

Given the way Mariner runs this team........

How about the brothers lining up a strikers in a 4-4-2 :facepalm:

Speaking of roster, after the cuts, how many players do we have under contract for 2013? We've gotta be seriously short handed right now? And with Mariner's apparent disdain for playing kids from the academy, do we even have a starting 11?

[ryan]

Speaking of roster, after the cuts, how many players do we have under contract for 2013? We've gotta be seriously short handed right now? And with Mariner's apparent disdain for playing kids from the academy, do we even have a starting 11?

Be amusing if we don't.

Then players refuse to come to shitshow FC run by the clown in shorts, and opening day we can't field a team.

[19Barrett19]

Buy out Frings get hassli on a non Dp contract . Wait on koevermas to get healthy. So koev would be our only DP sign Frings to a normal salary and bring in 2 young DPs on cheaper cap hits who need some min. I beleieve the cap hit is cheaper for younger DPs. Although this sounds doable I think it's circumventing the cap. Frings is after surgery and would give us an excuse on that one. We would save more money that way to make a future move if koev is not the same man when he comes back. One can only dream but it can be done. Cochrane is a bum and mariner is the clown so dream

[reggie]

according to larsen on twitter,E H will be back has DP next season...
now we have 3 broken down older DPs.
STOP THE MADDNESS PLEASE NEW MANAGEMENT.

[ManUtd4ever]

If Hassli can remain relatively healthy, he should be able to score 10-12 goals next season. TFC's placement in the overall standings next season will determine if it was worth giving up a first round pick in 2014. If TFC makes the playoffs next season and Hassli is a solid contributor to that effect, it will make the optics of the deal much easier to digest. If TFC fails to make the playoffs and Hassli has an injury plagued season, then the deal will have been a waste of an asset.

[CommradePolski]

Its ok guys.

This is what'll happen:

PM will have a team meeting while wearing a suit. Hassli jokingly says "ou est your shorts?" (because he's french and his anglais is no good yet) and everyone giggles.
PM laughs almost condescendingly and looks at Hassli and says "the same place you are going to start from now on"

3 games go by and no starts from Hassli as he sits on the bench and gets subbed in once for 2minutes before the final whistle. TFC still losing.

Hassli then gets traded to, oh say Portland. At the press conference PM says he thanks Hassli for the contribution blah blah blah. Then he goes on to say "In return we will be getting the most natural soccer ball of the modern era."

Another 2 days go by and TFC signs a new DP, 35 year old James Prema of Bermuda. Coincidentally PM is now announced as the Bermudan national team coach.

Prema gets here and the next days he's starting and promptly gets injured, lets say ACL tear requiring surgery. Prema retires and says he's going back home to fulfill his life long dream of becoming a gardener.

PM then goes to Bermuda to prep the national team and in the background you see Prema gardening at PM's new (as someone mentioned above I think) beachfront soccer coaching office.

[starter]

Its ok guys.

This is what'll happen:

PM will have a team meeting while wearing a suit. Hassli jokingly says "ou est your shorts?" (because he's french and his anglais is no good yet) and everyone giggles.
PM laughs almost condescendingly and looks at Hassli and says "the same place you are going to start from now on"

3 games go by and no starts from Hassli as he sits on the bench and gets subbed in once for 2minutes before the final whistle. TFC still losing.

Hassli then gets traded to, oh say Portland. At the press conference PM says he thanks Hassli for the contribution blah blah blah. Then he goes on to say "In return we will be getting the most natural soccer ball of the modern era."

Another 2 days go by and TFC signs a new DP, 35 year old James Prema of Bermuda. Coincidentally PM is now announced as the Bermudan national team coach.

Prema gets here and the next days he's starting and promptly gets injured, lets say ACL tear requiring surgery. Prema retires and says he's going back home to fulfill his life long dream of becoming a gardener.

PM then goes to Bermuda to prep the national team and in the background you see Prema gardening at PM's new (as someone mentioned above I think) beachfront soccer coaching office.
:)
The call from Bermuda MNT can not come soon enough.

[Yohan]

TFC picks up option on Hassli.

Apparently Mariner thinks TFC is picking up Avila's option?

[brad]

TFC picks up option on Hassli.

Apparently Mariner thinks TFC is picking up Avila's option?

Avila should have trade value, no? If he does, it would make no sense not to pick up his option.

[notthesun]

TFC picks up option on Hassli.

Apparently Mariner thinks TFC is picking up Avila's option?

Where did he say that? That would be a real shocker (unless they plan on just trading him after). Thought he was out of the picture for sure.

Hassli was always going to come back considering what we gave up for him. Was hoping as a non-DP but oh well. If he can produce I'm all right with it.

[Yohan]

Where did he say that? That would be a real shocker (unless they plan on just trading him after). Thought he was out of the picture for sure.

Hassli was always going to come back considering what we gave up for him. Was hoping as a non-DP but oh well. If he can produce I'm all right with it.
http://www.wakingthered.com/2012/11/24/3683228/toronto-fc-top-31-countdown-number-13-eric-avila

[moralis]

Earl Cochrane told me at last weeks town hall that Eric Avila is a free agent and is not on an option year. I don't think he will be signed. He didn't play a lot while Mariner was coach.

[19Barrett19]

Eric Avila is party animal not a professional soccer player. I remember seeing him at Cobra at collage st and he didn't look so good to me he was there with eks. I noticed eks and approached him he took the time to exchange a few words with me. Avila on the other hand put his finger on his lips and signaled shhhhhh WTF! He defenetly looked wacked to me. He's not dedicated no wonder he's so skinny.

[jazzy]

Eric Avila is party animal not a professional soccer player. I remember seeing him at Cobra at collage st and he didn't look so good to me he was there with eks. I noticed eks and approached him he took the time to exchange a few words with me. Avila on the other hand put his finger on his lips and signaled shhhhhh WTF! He defenetly looked wacked to me. He's not dedicated no wonder he's so skinny.

he's talented simple as that!.......what? he was on a day off relaxing , and he didn't want to talk to you, esp with the way he was ignored here in TO??.....oh my! I'm surprised he was so obliging at the year -end party esp ....when he knew he wouldn't be back, and maybe being told to show up~..I wouldn't ala Cann

[CommradePolski]

I got Avila to sign something at the year end party. No words were exchanged and he seemed content no one was really "flocking" to him.

[Benficachop20]

he's talented simple as that!

Am i the only one here that thinks Avila is crap? and please don't say things like playing out of position because i think he looked crap playing in his position as well. Offers very little offensively and defensively and most of the time is non existent. Can't wait for him to leave.

[19Barrett19]

It's not about him not wanting to talk with a fan but as for being shit faced is another. Question is would you want a player like that on the squad who loves to party and get messed up next to a young kid like plata? From what I figure they got along quite well before plata went off on loan. I know one thing this player Avila has talent but if he is a party animal which I think he is get rid of him we need football players on tfc.

[T-boy]

This talk of Avila being a party animal is bizarre and yet interesting. It reminds me of a young player Oxford had a few years ago called Bobby Ford. He was CLASS on the field and all the fans thought he would go onto play in the premiership. He was being scouted for a while from various big clubs. Then it all went quiet. I used to go to the Oxford supporters club during reserve games and Ford was always at the bar. I mean literally *always*. Somebody then told me that Ford was a drunk and a chain smoker. I didn't believe it at first, but then realised it was totally true and Ford used to smoke constrantly while at the bar, and I watched as he drank beer after beer after games. It turns out he was a complete boozer and Oxford used to nurse him through pre season every year as he was so gassed from the smoke and drink. He eventually left for Sheffield United but his career fizzled out and he never reached the heights he should have.

so, you don't know with some players - we don't see what happens behind closed doors. Could be true about Avila, you never know!

[19Barrett19]

George Best is the only footballer I would want to play on my team boozing and everyday. At least he can score hatricks and braces while being drunk on the pitch.

[jloome]

I think assuming Eric Avila is a disruptive "party animal" because he MAY have had one too many one night and is skinny is about the dumbest fucking thing I've ever seen posted on a board, anywhere.

Jeez, what a nasty-ass, low thing to say about someone you don't know. Hell, about someone you DO know.

[Canary10]

Am i the only one here that thinks Avila is crap? and please don't say things like playing out of position because i think he looked crap playing in his position as well. Offers very little offensively and defensively and most of the time is non existent. Can't wait for him to leave.

He's not been consistent for 90 minutes, but he's the only one on the team that can handle the ball in tight quarters. Every game he came in under Mariner he set something up and/or otherwise had some influence on the game. He may not be a starter but he's a quality player.

[West220Side]

I'm calling it right now. Ready?

Toronto FC trade/release Andrew Weidemann, Freddy Hall, and Jeremy Hall, and possibly Eric Avila to make place for another BIG NAME attacking midfielder.
Toronto FC acquire american centreback (unnamed) on a $180,000+ salary
Toronto FC acquire veteran leftback to mentor Ashtone Morgan, and provide depth as Pasher remains in the Academy system.
Toronto FC acquire various other foreign + mls local midfield talent on $80,000 - $128,000 contracts
After a nail biting winter, fans are still waiting for a 'big name' player with signs of promise, whats this? We all spend the day on the forums as Brad Davis + Dwayne De Rosario unfold their new Toronto FC Jersey.

(Do I have you smiling yet?)

We win the Mickey Mouse cup and as the team heads home to Toronto on their flight Terry Dunfield looks around and mutters 'Wait... Did we forget Aaron Maund?' as Maund is still so unaware of his surroundings that he's parked in the middle of the pitch confused as to what to do. He remains unseen for the entire 2013 season on the missing persons list.


Our starting squad hits the pitch in montreal made up of Frei minding the net with an impressive defensive line infront of him in Eckersley, (unnamed american centreback), O'dea, and Morgan. Infront of them a holding midfielder in (I guess..) Frings, but of course most would prefer Dunfield, left of midfield free-kick genius Brad Davis stars, followed up by Reggie Lambe on the right and Dwayne De Rosario sporting the captains arm band centre attacking midfield. (Havn't quite worked out the brilliant strike force yet.)

The list of the bench hits the screen it reads out with names such as pacey Jaoa Plata, former academy players Matt Stinson and Doneil Henry, don't forget the talented 2012 draft pick Luis Silva.

/end fantasy

[19Barrett19]

I think assuming Eric Avila is a disruptive "party animal" because he MAY have had one too many one night and is skinny is about the dumbest fucking thing I've ever seen posted on a board, anywhere.

Jeez, what a nasty-ass, low thing to say about someone you don't know. Hell, about someone you DO know.

You don't have to like my post and yes it is kinda nasty but I can't deny what I saw that night and the man looked trashed. As for the skinny comment he looked like my uncle who died of alcoholism 2 years ago. But then again your untitled to your own opinion. Enjoy reading your posts!

[backbeat]

You don't have to like my post and yes it is kinda nasty but I can't deny what I saw that night and the man looked trashed. As for the skinny comment he looked like my uncle who died of alcoholism 2 years ago. But then again your untitled to your own opinion. Enjoy reading your posts!

so what if he looked trashed 'that' night - who the f@#k cares?? let him have a night or 2 on his off-nights....and 50% on your yours...as it were...:wink:

[Ajax TFC]

Avila's the best ball distributer we have (or likely "had"). He doesn't defend in the traditional way of going shoulder to shoulder and putting in big tackles, but if that's what defending means than Xavi doesn't defend either. Avila can pressure, and he worked really well during that one month or so at the end of last season that we were actually playing high pressure football. Payne wants to play high pressure football and he's pretty much the only player on our roster currently capable of doing that.

[ag futbol]

You don't have to like my post and yes it is kinda nasty but I can't deny what I saw that night and the man looked trashed. As for the skinny comment he looked like my uncle who died of alcoholism 2 years ago. But then again your untitled to your own opinion. Enjoy reading your posts!
Dude, I'm not trying to pile on here but you're going waaay too far down the road with your assumptions.

There are plenty of professional soccer players who are slight of frame like Avila, not everyone can accommodate a lot of muscle mass while meeting cardiovascular (for the lack of a better word) requirements. As for being an alcoholic, just because you saw him at the bar once getting shitfaced doesn't mean he does it all the time and it gets in the way of his job as a full time athlete.

[Jpexxx]

You don't have to like my post and yes it is kinda nasty but I can't deny what I saw that night and the man looked trashed. As for the skinny comment he looked like my uncle who died of alcoholism 2 years ago. But then again your untitled to your own opinion. Enjoy reading your posts!

Sorry, the only person you're allowed to assume is an alchoholic around here is Mariner.

[VoxPopuliCosmicum]

^If it quacks like a duck...

[DOMIN8R]

Not to take sides....but Mariner did say that he thought that the city (Toronto) had gotten to Eric. He added that he has known Eric since his early college years and he was not playing up to his potential in the later part of the season. He also said that Eric didn't have his head in the game and had lost his focus and he has told him as much.

For what it's worth......

[Ultra & Proud]

Well I'm in the Avila sucks crowd and never saw much of anything from him other than being the decent with the ball in comparison to what we had at the end of last season when our roster was a total nightmare. On any decent MLS side Avila does not start, perhaps doesn't play regularly at all. The fact that he didn't play enough here means nothing because if we intend to move forward and be a decent MLS we shouldn't settle for negligible bench players who make $130k+. Take Avila's salary and compare it to others on good MLS teams and see what better players can be had for less. I'm done settling for the 'he is technically good and a great passer of the ball and sometimes makes a flashy play' types and expect guys who do the job day in and day out and get results in the end. Avila's been around a while, played for a few managers, and hardly distinguished himself as a dependable $100k+ player.

[Yohan]

Avila I think is not mentally tough enough, and needs to work on his confidence.

Also, he's not effective in a 4-4-2 set up. He needs to play AM in 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3 or any formation that uses AM

[mcolvy]

moving in another direction, why on earth would a team exercise an option on a DP (Hassli) a week before they bring in a new president..... Surely any intelligence dictates to wait and see if this aligns with their beliefs and keep as much flexibility as possible before locking up a chunk of salary.


What if KP is just like hmmm.. I wouldn't have advised that.....

awkward...

Its laughable that TFC management has over 1 million worth of salary cap locked up on three players who are all question marks regarding health.

This organization is a joke.....

And we have no flexibility to get out of the mess, nor do we really have young options on the team who could quickly grow into difference makers, and even so nor do we have a coach who is confident enough in his security to give any chance to up and comers.....

[jazzy]

He's not been consistent for 90 minutes, but he's the only one on the team that can handle the ball in tight quarters. Every game he came in under Mariner he set something up and/or otherwise had some influence on the game. He may not be a starter but he's a quality player.

bang on....esp in our limited league...........

[19Barrett19]

Just a suggestion what do you guys and gals think of maybe bringing in CB/RB Marcin Wasilewski polish international
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcin_Wasilewski
Love the way he plays and would fit MLS well. Physical and strong good passer

[West220Side]

Just a suggestion what do you guys and gals think of maybe bringing in CB/RB Marcin Wasilewski polish international
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcin_Wasilewski
Love the way he plays and would fit MLS well. Physical and strong good passer

With Darren O'dea willing to 'run through brick walls' and Marcin Wasilewski apparently being super-human? Sounds decent enough.

His drive to return was rewarded with a new contract until the summer of 2013, with the club talking about him as "a club monument, who had to deliver an inhuman battle"