Doesn't it bother you

[TFC USA]

That after six years, and four of them not even close to playoff-level soccer, we're still relying on moral victories and "possibly improvements heading into next season" yet again? A draw with Portland is "okay" I guess. But we're still easily the worst team in MLS and that little run we had was just our usual unbeaten stretch surrounded by tons upon tons of froggy shit.

Vancouver in two years is better than we've ever been at any point. Seattle has been a success from year one. Philly made the playoffs in year two. Montreal has some potential.

And here we are possibly the worst team in MLS history struggling to compete with even mediocre competition like Portland. We doubled their road goal-scoring total for the season. What the fuck is that shit all about?

I don't want excuses. I want a winning team. Not moral victories. And I see no sign of hope that it's coming. It really sucks.

[Benficachop20]

Don't think a draw against portland is okay. We just tied against the second worst team in the league at home, and quite honestly we really controlled the match for about 20 minutes in the second half and that was it. Something that bothers me is that people still clap at the end of the game, as if to say that the result was good. Don't know about everyone else but i'm tired of the whole not winning thing, it's not much fun. So stop fucking clapping at the end of the matches if it's not a win.

[khso11]

Don't think a draw against portland is okay. We just tied against the second worst team in the league at home, and quite honestly we really controlled the match for about 20 minutes in the second half and that was it. Something that bothers me is that people still clap at the end of the game, as if to say that the result was good. Don't know about everyone else but i'm tired of the whole not winning thing, it's not much fun. So stop fucking clapping at the end of the matches if it's not a win.

they are clapping maybe for the effort, the players could play their best, but we don't have the best players to be a winning team at the moment.

i hate to say this team is like a little kid (no i dont believe mlse bs), it takes time to grow, and of course im annoy from the past 6 years of shit but eventually they will get out of this. Some ppl may back out now, but when they start winning, they will come back, but i consider them as part-time fans (or "bandwagoners"). True fans will not back out from a team; im not saying that not going to games or not buying products are not true fans, but i want to say that at least watch it on tv or follow it and stay positive instead. :scarf:

[narduch]

I just don't know how TFC FO sells the Paul Mariner era to SSH at renewal time.

Most fans seem to have already given up on this team. They can announce 18,000+ attendances all they want. We aren't stupid though. We know the stadium is half empty.

The sad thing is that I think it will be more of the same next year if the current management team remains. How does 7 years with no playoffs in MLS sound?

[OgtheDim]

Many sports teams in no relegation leagues go through decades of incompetency. Look at the Green Bay Packers of the 70's and 80's, the current Leafs, the Pittsburgh Pirates.


Yes it bothered fans.


Doesn't stop you caring.

[TFC_905]

they are clapping maybe for the effort, the players could play their best, but we don't have the best players to be a winning team at the moment.

i hate to say this team is like a little kid (no i dont believe mlse bs), it takes time to grow, and of course im annoy from the past 6 years of shit but eventually they will get out of this. Some ppl may back out now, but when they start winning, they will come back, but i consider them as part-time fans (or "bandwagoners"). True fans will not back out from a team; im not saying that not going to games or not buying products are not true fans, but i want to say that at least watch it on tv or follow it and stay positive instead. :scarf:


If people leave now, I can't say I blame them. But hey, lets be honest, by people dropping their season tickets it at least shows FO that their failures have consequences. Those who drop their season tickets are probably doing more for this club than those of us who are renewing. Anyone who doesn't renew their season seats should NOT be considered "part time supporters."

[brad]

If people leave now, I can't say I blame them. But hey, lets be honest, by people dropping their season tickets it at least shows FO that their failures have consequences. Those who drop their season tickets are probably doing more for this club than those of us who are renewing. Anyone who doesn't renew their season seats should NOT be considered "part time supporters."

For a lot of folks, myself included - not renewing is a financial call. No more, no less. I can't make every game like I used to, and I end up eating the cost of a bunch of tickets. I would have saved a lot of money this year if I'd let them go and just bought below cost secondary market tickets for the games I can make.

I won't have seasons next year, but it won't really change how often I am at BMO.

But I agree - giving up seasons is the single most powerful thing that people can do if they want the current execs gone. This is a corporation running a sports team like a corporation. The success of the execs is being judged on financial results, not on the field results. We could languish in last place for the next decade and set futility record after futility record, but as long as long as the tickets are selling, and jerseys are flying off the shelves our current exec team will be deemed successful by their bosses.

[Heart of Stone]

Toronto is now an event city. There are no real fans here. Unless they are fans of "events".

[Fort York Redcoat]

I'm not stopping my fucking clapping. I clap the effort and the accountability of the players coming over who acknowledge our support and clearly want to do better for us.


If one doesn't renew and one doesn't like the term "part-time supporter" we could always use some other term. How about "At home supporter"?

[Fort York Redcoat]

Toronto is now an event city. There are no real fans here. Unless they are fans of "events".



Sweeping statement much?


Wait- aren't YOU here? You don't have a location I can see.

[brad]

I'm not stopping my fucking clapping. I clap the effort and the accountability of the players coming over who acknowledge our support and clearly want to do better for us.


If one doesn't renew and one doesn't like the term "part-time supporter" we could always use some other term. How about "At home supporter"?

I'm curious - how do you equate not having seasons with being a part time supporter? You can attend every match without seasons. You can go on away trips without seasons, you could support the team in other ways (with things like painting banners).

Assuming you do equate having seasons with supporter vs part time supporter.

There are two sides to the argument. I understand both sides. In my opinion neither is right or wrong. Only different.

One is attend every game, support the boys on the pitch, focus on the now. Do it with seasons, and support MLSE financially. Enough people do this, the rollercoaster will continue because the only thing that matters to them is financial success.

The other is give up your seasons, take money out of MLSE's pockets knowing that the only thing that will truly make a long term change is if their profits are hit enough that they deem it time to make the right changes. This is sacrificing the short term of the potential hope of a better future.

What's happened at United with supporters giving up seasons to protest the Glazers has shaped my view on this issue. Thousands of true reds - folks that have attended matches for years, in many cases decades - folks that used to make the Stretford End one of the most intimidating supporters ends in England - have given their seasons in protest and been replaced by the plastic prawn brigades in droves. By the logic above - those plastics that replaced them are the "full-time supporter

[Phil]

Sure, its bothers me.

They also seem to be quite competitive in CCL matches for the last year or so, I do have value in that.

I also know that being a supporter isn't always easy and I choose to do it anyway.

[Phil]

I'm curious - how do you equate not having seasons with being a part time supporter? You can attend every match without seasons. You can go on away trips without seasons, you could support the team in other ways (with things like painting banners).

Assuming you do equate having seasons with supporter vs part time supporter.

There are two sides to the argument. I understand both sides. In my opinion neither is right or wrong. Only different.

One is attend every game, support the boys on the pitch, focus on the now. Do it with seasons, and support MLSE financially. Enough people do this, the rollercoaster will continue because the only thing that matters to them is financial success.

The other is give up your seasons, take money out of MLSE's pockets knowing that the only thing that will truly make a long term change is if their profits are hit enough that they deem it time to make the right changes. This is sacrificing the short term of the potential hope of a better future.

What's happened at United with supporters giving up seasons to protest the Glazers has shaped my view on this issue. Thousands of true reds - folks that have attended matches for years, in many cases decades - folks that used to make the Stretford End one of the most intimidating supporters ends in England - have given their seasons in protest and been replaced by the plastic prawn brigades in droves. By the logic above - those plastics that replaced them are the "full-time supporter

Seasons tickets are not an indication of supporter or not, you make a very vaild point about contribution coming from all areas regardeless of having that ticket. Your point about dumping them speaks volumes, and it makes finanacial sense for you so no worries Brad.

I think FYR is moreso reacting to *some* of the people who are jumping off based on all the other reasons and swearing they are never coming back. To each their own on that front, but we all know we will continue doing what we have all choosen to do.

[Fort York Redcoat]

I'm curious - how do you equate not having seasons with being a part time supporter? You can attend every match without seasons. You can go on away trips without seasons, you could support the team in other ways (with things like painting banners).

Assuming you do equate having seasons with supporter vs part time supporter.

There are two sides to the argument. I understand both sides. In my opinion neither is right or wrong. Only different.

One is attend every game, support the boys on the pitch, focus on the now. Do it with seasons, and support MLSE financially. Enough people do this, the rollercoaster will continue because the only thing that matters to them is financial success.

The other is give up your seasons, take money out of MLSE's pockets knowing that the only thing that will truly make a long term change is if their profits are hit enough that they deem it time to make the right changes. This is sacrificing the short term of the potential hope of a better future.

What's happened at United with supporters giving up seasons to protest the Glazers has shaped my view on this issue. Thousands of true reds - folks that have attended matches for years, in many cases decades - folks that used to make the Stretford End one of the most intimidating supporters ends in England - have given their seasons in protest and been replaced by the plastic prawn brigades in droves. By the logic above - those plastics that replaced them are the "full-time supporter

brad you're inferring a lot there and helping me make my next point that we're too sensitive about some of these definitions.



There are all types of support and that's fine. I guess its important to open with that every post that we want to discuss a different aspect. I just think it's funny how someone can not have seasons, not get to every game, not see every game and not be by definition a part time supporter. I don't really care myself. It's not a dick measurement it's just a fact that by definition if you don't see every single game you are NOT full-time, hence you are technically part-time and I have zero implications to go with that.

I'm poking fun, not at you or people who can't get to every game (especially if it's because of real life getting in the way but not exclusively that reason either) I was poking fun at how serious we all sometimes take ourselves about some of these terms. I'm no different.

Hope that clears that up a bit.

[Carefree]

Toronto is now an event city. There are no real fans here. Unless they are fans of "events".

This is not new, it's always been like this. In the early days of TFC when the stadium was full there were never more than about 1000 "real" fans of the team, the rest were just there because it was the cool place to be. The proof being that not a whole lot of people other than those in the south-east corner were paying much attention to the game. I remember one time having to run to the washroom during play, and the concourse was absolutely packed with people just hanging around, chatting around the tables or talking on the phone, not giving two craps about what was going on on the pitch. Now that the buzz has passed, all these people are gone and all that's left is that hard core of supporters and a few hangers on who still don't know that TFC isn't "in" anymore.

[jabbronies]

I'm curious - how do you equate not having seasons with being a part time supporter? You can attend every match without seasons. You can go on away trips without seasons, you could support the team in other ways (with things like painting banners).



Just to add to this and kind of a side note:

You can go to CCL games without season tickets as well.
Don't be sold otherwise when your renewal package comes in!

[Carefree]

Many sports teams in no relegation leagues go through decades of incompetency. Look at the Green Bay Packers of the 70's and 80's, the current Leafs, the Pittsburgh Pirates.


Yes it bothered fans.


Doesn't stop you caring.

There is a big difference here. Before their slumps these teams were around for many decades during which they enjoyed success and built a multi-generational fanbase. This makes it more likely that fans will endure prolonged periods of drought. TFC has sucked from day one. They have never provided us with anything but very small victories (the Canadian Championship, a few individual league or CCL games here and there). TFC have not earned our loyalty. We just gave it to them unconditionally.

[jabbronies]

This is not new, it's always been like this. In the early days of TFC when the stadium was full there were never more than about 1000 "real" fans of the team, the rest were just there because it was the cool place to be. The proof being that not a whole lot of people other than those in the south-east corner were paying much attention to the game. I remember one time having to run to the washroom during play, and the concourse was absolutely packed with people just hanging around, chatting around the tables or talking on the phone, not giving two craps about what was going on on the pitch. Now that the buzz has passed, all these people are gone and all that's left is that hard core of supporters and a few hangers on who still don't know that TFC isn't "in" anymore.

I'd love to know what your definition of "real" fan is.

I spent more time talking to guys in my section about the EPL yesterday than I did on the actual game being played. It had nothing to do with not caring what was happening on the pitch - It's not rocket science to look at the pitch, take in what's going on, realise it's garbage and continue to speak about something more interesting.

I actually didn't give two shits about what the team was doing on the field, but I was there to support the boys. If they did something other than kick the ball hopelessly forward or pass to the opposing team, I clapped in appreciation. But that rarely happened yesterday.

So again I ask, what is your definition of real fan and how should that person act at a match?

[Carefree]

they are clapping maybe for the effort, the players could play their best, but we don't have the best players to be a winning team at the moment.

i hate to say this team is like a little kid (no i dont believe mlse bs), it takes time to grow, and of course im annoy from the past 6 years of shit but eventually they will get out of this. Some ppl may back out now, but when they start winning, they will come back, but i consider them as part-time fans (or "bandwagoners"). True fans will not back out from a team; im not saying that not going to games or not buying products are not true fans, but i want to say that at least watch it on tv or follow it and stay positive instead. :scarf:

I'm sorry but I saw very little effort last night other than a 10-minute spell in the middle of the second half. The first 60 minutes were just brutal to watch, and right before our first goal I had started switching back and forth between this game and the Jays on Sportsnet. I was thinking that the players have just completely given up and don't give a shit anymore. The first goal gave them a bit of hope and then they scored a second, but a few minutes later, as we've seen too often, they just stopped playing and the inevitable happened. I wouldn't say that kind of effort deserved clapping.

[jabbronies]

Anyone who bothered to go to the game yesterday cold be labeled a real fan.
To actually waste your time in traffic/public transit; over spend on food and beer; sit there for 80 - 90 minutes to watch some of the worst soccer the world has to offer; you have to be a fan of the team in some way, shape or form.

To ridicule people for clapping for the team after a draw is blind and ignorant. A result is a result at this point. We're not fighting for anything. No playoffs, CCL is a pipe dream IMO. You are there for that one game and one game only. If they get a result, be happy because they are few and far between.

If you are pissed off at the team and want them to suffer, don't go to the game and don't renew your tickets next season. Don't watch it on TV and don't buy merchandise..as a matter of fact, don't wear any merchandise either. That's the only way to make the team (FO) feel it. Make the team irrelevant by your own actions. Others will follow if they agree with you. Don't jump on others for not doing what you think they should do.

[Carefree]

I'd love to know what your definition of "real" fan is.

People who are there first and foremost to watch the game. People who make an effort to know who the players are. People who follow the team's evolution in the league and other competitions. People who care.


I spent more time talking to guys in my section about the EPL yesterday than I did on the actual game being played. It had nothing to do with not caring what was happening on the pitch - It's not rocket science to look at the pitch, take in what's going on, realise it's garbage and continue to speak about something more interesting.

I actually didn't give two shits about what the team was doing on the field, but I was there to support the boys. If they did something other than kick the ball hopelessly forward or pass to the opposing team, I clapped in appreciation. But that rarely happened yesterday.

So again I ask, what is your definition of real fan and how should that person act at a match?

I'm not trying to start that whole "I'm a better supporter than you" BS. Supporters can support however they want, and I'm not calling out any particular person with my comments. But you have to admit a lot of the people that were coming to the stadium in years 1 and 2 were simply curious about a sport they knew very little about (and I'm including myself in this) and because of the dreadful quality of the team they just didn't get hooked. People like that were never supporters to begin with, nor would they have defined themselves as such.

[cmonyoureds]

Ever considered some people are clapping the final whistle? As in, "thank god you blew that whistle, I'm applauding the fact this painful display is over"?

[jabbronies]

People who are there first and foremost to watch the game. People who make an effort to know who the players are. People who follow the team's evolution in the league and other competitions. People who care.



I'm not trying to start that whole "I'm a better supporter than you" BS. Supporters can support however they want, and I'm not calling out any particular person with my comments. But you have to admit a lot of the people that were coming to the stadium in years 1 and 2 were simply curious about a sport they knew very little about (and I'm including myself in this) and because of the dreadful quality of the team they just didn't get hooked. People like that were never supporters to begin with, nor would they have defined themselves as such.

This isn't about "better supporter than you" BS. We are talking about everyone in the stadium - not just supporters. For the record I don't sit in the south end, so I'd like to think I'm exposed to newbies/tourists/non-real fans more than those in the south end. Sure the loudest mouths in the stadium may be people who don't care about the game, but the other 80% of people are actually watching the game. When majority of the people around me are reacting to all of the small plays on the pitch (not scoring chance, just something simple like a pull down in the middle of the park) that should be enough indication that they are watching the game.

You said the stadium only had about 1000 real fans in the stadium - which is basically the south end. Another poster pointed out that this city is an event city and people are only there for the event.

I'm calling BS on both of those comments. Both of which wreak of "better supporter than you". You may not be calling out anyone on the board here, but you sure sound high and mighty to the 15K other people in the stadium you don't consider real fans.

[Fort York Redcoat]

I'm sorry but I saw very little effort last night other than a 10-minute spell in the middle of the second half. The first 60 minutes were just brutal to watch, and right before our first goal I had started switching back and forth between this game and the Jays on Sportsnet. I was thinking that the players have just completely given up and don't give a shit anymore. The first goal gave them a bit of hope and then they scored a second, but a few minutes later, as we've seen too often, they just stopped playing and the inevitable happened. I wouldn't say that kind of effort deserved clapping.

How do you figure when most of the players on the pitch last night were depth players getting a chance or brand new to the squad? If there was uncreative play ( and at times, there was ) it was down to an irregular squad trying to find out one another.


People who are there first and foremost to watch the game. People who make an effort to know who the players are. People who follow the team's evolution in the league and other competitions. People who care.


-So says carefree.g:D

[Carefree]

-So says carefree.g:D

Oh dear! It took me a minute to get this...

[Carefree]

For the record I don't sit in the south end

Neither do I. And also for the record, I prefer to watch a game sitting down, and my throat rarely hurts at the end of a game. Also, none of this is relevant to what I was talking about in my previous posts.


I'm calling BS on both of those comments. Both of which wreak of "better supporter than you". You may not be calling out anyone on the board here, but you sure sound high and mighty to the 15K other people in the stadium you don't consider real fans.

Sorry you feel that way. That certainly wasn't my intention. I don't think we're communicating very well here so I'm gonna leave this thread for now and get back to work. Cheers!

[jabbronies]

Neither do I. And also for the record, I prefer to watch a game sitting down, and my throat rarely hurts at the end of a game. Also, none of this is relevant to what I was talking about in my previous posts.



Sorry you feel that way. That certainly wasn't my intention. I don't think we're communicating very well here so I'm gonna leave this thread for now and get back to work. Cheers!

definitely some miscommunication.

[DangerRed]

I'm not stopping my fucking clapping. I clap the effort and the accountability of the players coming over who acknowledge our support and clearly want to do better for us.


If one doesn't renew and one doesn't like the term "part-time supporter" we could always use some other term. How about "At home supporter"?

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaait. So if someone buys every single ticket to every game from scalpers, screams their fucking lungs out every match and boycotts MLSE at the concession, they're a "part-time" or "at home supporter" to you? What if a person buys after-market tickets to half of the games, but goes to all of those games, as opposed to a SSH who has a ticket for each match but goes to just a few?

Man, I've heard you spew out some nonsense before, but this has got to take the cake. How you arrived at your conclusion escapes me entirely.

Edit: and for the record, I had season tickets. Dropped them all after last season. I've been to three matches this year and I probably know more about the dramatic ins and outs of this team than the vast majority of current SSHs.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaait. So if someone buys every single ticket to every game from scalpers, screams their fucking lungs out every match and boycotts MLSE at the concession, they're a "part-time" or "at home supporter" to you? What if a person buys after-market tickets to half of the games, but goes to all of those games, as opposed to a SSH who has a ticket for each match but goes to just a few?

Man, I've heard you spew out some nonsense before, but this has got to take the cake. How you arrived at your conclusion escapes me entirely.

Edit: and for the record, I had season tickets. Dropped them all after last season. I've been to three matches this year and I probably know more about the dramatic ins and outs of this team than the vast majority of current SSHs.

And speaking of crazy conclusions...


brad you're inferring a lot there and helping me make my next point that we're too sensitive about some of these definitions.



There are all types of support and that's fine. I guess its important to open with that every post that we want to discuss a different aspect. I just think it's funny how someone can not have seasons, not get to every game, not see every game and not be by definition a part time supporter. I don't really care myself. It's not a dick measurement it's just a fact that by definition if you don't see every single game you are NOT full-time, hence you are technically part-time and I have zero implications to go with that.

I'm poking fun, not at you or people who can't get to every game (especially if it's because of real life getting in the way but not exclusively that reason either) I was poking fun at how serious we all sometimes take ourselves about some of these terms. I'm no different.

Hope that clears that up a bit.

This is what I posted after what you quoted. Do you still want me to answer your "what-if 's"? Or are we good?:noidea:

[ManUtd4ever]

What's the purpose of threads like this? The last time I checked, nobody was holding a gun to anyone's head to support the club in any capacity.

Yes, our brief history has been abysmal for the most part, and it bothers me that the club is on the verge of yet another season without qualifying for the playoffs, but I will continue to support the club and renew my seasons tickets, with the hope that I will soon be rewarded for my loyalty and resilience.

By the same token, I have stopped buying merchandise and spending excessive amounts at the concessions at BMO Field.

[DangerRed]

And speaking of crazy conclusions...



This is what I posted after what you quoted. Do you still want me to answer your "what-if 's"? Or are we good?:noidea:

You, sir, are too much. This is CLEARLY a dick-measuring contest for you, because you've made an unprompted point of drawing the line between, you (who says he goes to all games) and 99.9 percent of other people everywhere, either on here or everywhere else, who miss at least one or more games each season.

Never mind that support is supposed to be about unity, especially at difficult times like the one the club has been going through pretty much since inception. No, not to you - you must be distinguished, for you are a more serious supporter, one untouchable but the other plebes who -- very ironically -- by their presence and attendance have given you a team to support in the first place.

Anyway, I don't know why I even started this with you because it's a waste of my time. Please, carry on.

[Gazza]

You, sir, are too much. This is CLEARLY a dick-measuring contest for you, because you've made an unprompted point of drawing the line between, you (who says he goes to all games) and 99.9 percent of other people everywhere, either on here or everywhere else, who miss at least one or more games each season.

Never mind that support is supposed to be about unity, especially at difficult times like the one the club has been going through pretty much since inception. No, not to you - you must be distinguished, for you are a more serious supporter, one untouchable but the other plebes who -- very ironically -- by their presence and attendance have given you a team to support in the first place.

Anyway, I don't know why I even started this with you because it's a waste of my time. Please, carry on.

I don't think you're reading his posts clearly. You seem to be calling him out on something he never even stated or implied.

[OgtheDim]

The definition of supporter to me is like the definition of mature.

To each their own.....just don't mess with me so you can dance in your own monkey poo.

Mind you, an internet forum is really just a bunch of people dancing in monkey poo so....

[Fort York Redcoat]

I don't think you're reading his posts clearly. You seem to be calling him out on something he never even stated or implied.

Holy Zombie Jesus Thank You.


Now to answer the OP- Yes. It bothers me. But I'll still go to as many games as I can and support the way I like while other people are free to support the way they like.

[Couchy81]

But I agree - giving up seasons is the single most powerful thing that people can do if they want the current execs gone. This is a corporation running a sports team like a corporation. The success of the execs is being judged on financial results, not on the field results. We could languish in last place for the next decade and set futility record after futility record, but as long as long as the tickets are selling, and jerseys are flying off the shelves our current exec team will be deemed successful by their bosses.

This is my line of thinking as well. I've been to a few games at the start of the year, and by the Chicago game in April was when I decided enough was enough and I wasn't going back to BMO for the rest of the year. Sure I watch every game on T.V. and read this board on a nearly daily basis, but I'm not putting a cent in MLSE's bank account and I hope that this sacrifice eventually leads to Anselmi and Co. being at the very least re-positioned somewhere else in the company and actual soccer professionals brought in to manage our team. I can't stand the garbage being sold to us anymore.

[Carefree]

The definition of supporter to me is like the definition of mature.

To each their own.....just don't mess with me so you can dance in your own monkey poo.

Mind you, an internet forum is really just a bunch of people dancing in monkey poo so....

http://www.n8bitradio.com/photos/01-monkey-poo-for-you.jpg

[TFC USA]

Many sports teams in no relegation leagues go through decades of incompetency. Look at the Green Bay Packers of the 70's and 80's, the current Leafs, the Pittsburgh Pirates.


Yes it bothered fans.


Doesn't stop you caring.

The Packers won two Super Bowls in the 60s and were a force pre-Super Bowl.

The Leafs, even when they weren't winning the Stanley Cup, were in the playoffs pretty much all the time until recently.

The Pirates have some World Series under their belt.

Toronto FC has got what? 824 minutes without a goal. Numerous stoppage time losses. The worst start in MLS history (this season). Only the 2nd team to ever let the GK score in MLS history. And zero success outside the last CCL run and being the best in Canada in the NCC.

MLSE took outstanding support in the first couple of years and tore a fucking hole through it. And as long as they see 18,000 or more show up it'll all seem fine to them. I'm not saying don't go, or don't stop supporting, but this is how they see us. As pawns in their little money game. They're winning and the team isn't.

[Auzzy]

That after six years, and four of them not even close to playoff-level soccer, we're still relying on moral victories and "possibly improvements heading into next season" yet again? A draw with Portland is "okay" I guess. But we're still easily the worst team in MLS and that little run we had was just our usual unbeaten stretch surrounded by tons upon tons of froggy shit.

Vancouver in two years is better than we've ever been at any point. Seattle has been a success from year one. Philly made the playoffs in year two. Montreal has some potential.

And here we are possibly the worst team in MLS history struggling to compete with even mediocre competition like Portland. We doubled their road goal-scoring total for the season. What the fuck is that shit all about?

I don't want excuses. I want a winning team. Not moral victories. And I see no sign of hope that it's coming. It really sucks.

Just to remind everyone, this is what the thread was about. (It's a bit much like a couple of other threads, but whatever.) However, we took this thread & started turning against each other.

[ryan]

MLSE took outstanding support in the first couple of years and tore a fucking hole through it. And as long as they see 18,000 or more show up it'll all seem fine to them. I'm not saying don't go, or don't stop supporting, but this is how they see us. As pawns in their little money game. They're winning and the team isn't.

I agree, because they know Toronto has a good amount of people who will be loyal to the team regardless.

IMO, and to draw a parallel to the Marineland article in yesterdays TorStar, "after a while you have to realize it's hopeless and you're not helping, you're actually part of the problem." Just my opinion and always will be. Ownership has to change, there is no other way. Rogers/Bell have to see this as a losing venture and cut ties...and to see that, it must become that.

Garber knows what Toronto has to offer as a market, we won't be without a club if ownership were to actually bail. Not worried about that happening either.

[ag futbol]

That after six years, and four of them not even close to playoff-level soccer, we're still relying on moral victories and "possibly improvements heading into next season" yet again? A draw with Portland is "okay" I guess. But we're still easily the worst team in MLS and that little run we had was just our usual unbeaten stretch surrounded by tons upon tons of froggy shit.

Vancouver in two years is better than we've ever been at any point. Seattle has been a success from year one. Philly made the playoffs in year two. Montreal has some potential.

And here we are possibly the worst team in MLS history struggling to compete with even mediocre competition like Portland. We doubled their road goal-scoring total for the season. What the fuck is that shit all about?

I don't want excuses. I want a winning team. Not moral victories. And I see no sign of hope that it's coming. It really sucks.
I hear you. What really grinds my gears is having to read shit from people like Paul Attfield about our "surprise" draw at home vs a fellow last place team. Stay tuned for TFC rolling out of bed and being given full praise.


Toronto is now an event city. There are no real fans here. Unless they are fans of "events".
Hmmm .. no.

The difference here is that I’m sure the bar you are setting for TFC in terms of attendance is in comparison to clubs that have been around for 100 years with shit loads of goodwill. No different than the leafs, they could shit the bed for decades and the drop in attendance is backstopped by their history and people’s long standing commitment to the team. TFC has basically showed up and taken a dump on us for six years and provided very little in return, we have nothing to fall back on. Call me crazy, but I think given the circumstances the fans in this city deserve a fucking medal for still coming out. BMO was reasonably full on a Wednesday night, to watch two last place teams battle it out for the grand prize of nothing. If most cities in MLS went through what we have their attendance would be like Chivas USA / FCD.

[prizby]

does it bother you that mls still plays matches on fifa calendar days?

[Benficachop20]

they are clapping maybe for the effort, the players could play their best, but we don't have the best players to be a winning team at the moment.

i hate to say this team is like a little kid (no i dont believe mlse bs), it takes time to grow, and of course im annoy from the past 6 years of shit but eventually they will get out of this. Some ppl may back out now, but when they start winning, they will come back, but i consider them as part-time fans (or "bandwagoners"). True fans will not back out from a team; im not saying that not going to games or not buying products are not true fans, but i want to say that at least watch it on tv or follow it and stay positive instead. :scarf:

bah. so we can just put 11 random guys out there and we'll applaud anything just as long as they tried. Leafs fans don't do anything so they've been stuck with shit for many years and we're doing the same thing. People here say they want change but no one is willing to do anything or show displeasure, i mean there would be a couple of fire anselmi chants that only 5-6 people will be chanting it for about a minute than stop because it couldn't catch on. U cant boo at the team because that automatically means u hate them and aren't a supporter, when really the booing and whistles is to show displeasure for the situation.


To ridicule people for clapping for the team after a draw is blind and ignorant. A result is a result at this point. We're not fighting for anything. No playoffs, CCL is a pipe dream IMO. You are there for that one game and one game only. If they get a result, be happy because they are few and far between.

come on now we we're clapping even through that ridiculous losing streak, people clap for everything. effort? wat effort yesterday? we were outplayed for the most part by the second worst team in the league, but hey as long as u guys are happy with this keep clapping and pretend everything is ok. btw u can boo based on result and not on the actual players independently.

[Brooker]

Leafs fans don't do anything so they've been stuck with shit for many years and we're doing the same thing.

Broadbrushing Leafs fans never gets old. "They don't do anything! They all put up with it!" I know far more Leafers who refuse to give them any more $ than people who go to their games... It's just there's waaaay to many Leafs fans around.

Off topic I know but just had to say something as I see that line spewed all over this board.

*Calmy waits for the MLSE doesn't care if they win comment*

[khso11]

If people leave now, I can't say I blame them. But hey, lets be honest, by people dropping their season tickets it at least shows FO that their failures have consequences. Those who drop their season tickets are probably doing more for this club than those of us who are renewing. Anyone who doesn't renew their season seats should NOT be considered "part time supporters."

No, i didn't say that not renewing their season tickets are part-time fans, as I also said in my previous post "im not saying that not going to games or not buying products are not true fans, but i want to say that at least watch it on tv or follow it and stay positive instead."

[khso11]

I'm sorry but I saw very little effort last night other than a 10-minute spell in the middle of the second half. The first 60 minutes were just brutal to watch, and right before our first goal I had started switching back and forth between this game and the Jays on Sportsnet. I was thinking that the players have just completely given up and don't give a shit anymore. The first goal gave them a bit of hope and then they scored a second, but a few minutes later, as we've seen too often, they just stopped playing and the inevitable happened. I wouldn't say that kind of effort deserved clapping.

Well, in my opinion, I think we don't have all the starters on our lineup yesterday, they played the best of their ability, nobody gave up, we scored TWO GOALS, if they don't give a shit, we wouldn't of gotten the goals, the problem is still our defence line, we get caught out too easily, and that's why we conceded the second goal. The first goal was just a show of poor set-piece defending again.

So maybe people were clapping for Kocic when he made the point-blank save in the second half, maybe people were clapping for Frings for holding the midfield yesterday, maybe people were clapping for young Luis Silva for playing so well at his age, maybe people were clapping for Hassli's first goal for the club, maybe they were clapping because of the entertaining fight at the end at 110 lol.........

[Toronto]

Of course it bothers me. It's why I've stopped banging Tom Asnselmi's wife. He can do his own dirty work from now on.

[Fort York Redcoat]

bah. so we can just put 11 random guys out there and we'll applaud anything just as long as they tried. Leafs fans don't do anything so they've been stuck with shit for many years and we're doing the same thing. People here say they want change but no one is willing to do anything or show displeasure, i mean there would be a couple of fire anselmi chants that only 5-6 people will be chanting it for about a minute than stop because it couldn't catch on. U cant boo at the team because that automatically means u hate them and aren't a supporter, when really the booing and whistles is to show displeasure for the situation.

come on now we we're clapping even through that ridiculous losing streak, people clap for everything. effort? wat effort yesterday? we were outplayed for the most part by the second worst team in the league, but hey as long as u guys are happy with this keep clapping and pretend everything is ok. btw u can boo based on result and not on the actual players independently.

So you want to save your clapping for a winning record. Fine. I go game by game like the ones clapping with me. And it's not for losses. It's for points. There will always be boobirds. If that's the best you can do to voice displeasure and your comfortable with it so be it. You even bring up Anti Anselmi chants so try to keep them going. If people choose not to keep it up that's up to them.

[khso11]

This is my line of thinking as well. I've been to a few games at the start of the year, and by the Chicago game in April was when I decided enough was enough and I wasn't going back to BMO for the rest of the year. Sure I watch every game on T.V. and read this board on a nearly daily basis, but I'm not putting a cent in MLSE's bank account and I hope that this sacrifice eventually leads to Anselmi and Co. being at the very least re-positioned somewhere else in the company and actual soccer professionals brought in to manage our team. I can't stand the garbage being sold to us anymore.

this i have to agree

[Toronto]

"How many teams in MLS can have five starters out and put in a performance like that?" he asked. "We're nowhere near where we want to be but I'm delighted with camaraderie, the togetherness that is in that locker-room....."

I clap for the camaraderie that the lads show. They really look like their having a blast this year. Getting shit faced on road trips it's that kind of togetherness that I clap for.

[khso11]

bah. so we can just put 11 random guys out there and we'll applaud anything just as long as they tried. Leafs fans don't do anything so they've been stuck with shit for many years and we're doing the same thing. People here say they want change but no one is willing to do anything or show displeasure, i mean there would be a couple of fire anselmi chants that only 5-6 people will be chanting it for about a minute than stop because it couldn't catch on. U cant boo at the team because that automatically means u hate them and aren't a supporter, when really the booing and whistles is to show displeasure for the situation.

Well, i guess we were forced to play them, because our starters were at international duties.

[jabbronies]

Well, i guess we were forced to play them, because our starters were at international duties.

The fact that we had to play Ty Harden is a true indication of this. The guy has been a bench warmer for two managers now. The only reason he played was because we have no one else! 5 guys who would be ahead of him were out of action for one reason or another. I guess we should be happy he was there to fill the spot.

[asterix606]

POINTS PER GAME:

YEAR*TFC*VAN*MTL

2007 0.83 -- --
2008 1.16 -- --
2009 1.30 -- --
2010 1.16 -- --
2011 0.97 0.82 --
2012 0.86 1.48 1.27


There has to be a revolt from the fans. Its been 6 seasons of crap!!

TFC is worst year after year since our top of 1.30 PPG in 2009.

PATHETIC!!!

[Fort York Redcoat]

POINTS PER GAME:

YEAR*TFC*VAN*MTL

2007 0.83 -- --
2008 1.16 -- --
2009 1.30 -- --
2010 1.16 -- --
2011 0.97 0.82 --
2012 0.86 1.48 1.27


There has to be a revolt from the fans. Its been 6 seasons of crap!!

TFC is worst year after year since our top of 1.30 PPG in 2009.

PATHETIC!!!

You posted this already elsewhere didn't you?

Do you call not giving the club any money a revolt?

[Richard]

POINTS PER GAME:

YEAR*TFC*VAN*MTL

2007 0.83 -- --
2008 1.16 -- --
2009 1.30 -- --
2010 1.16 -- --
2011 0.97 0.82 --
2012 0.86 1.48 1.27


There has to be a revolt from the fans. Its been 6 seasons of crap!!

TFC is worst year after year since our top of 1.30 PPG in 2009.

PATHETIC!!!

That is just embarrassing.

[bigredone]

Toronto is now an event city. There are no real fans here. Unless they are fans of "events".

Toronto is an event city now, sadly. The people of this city, though, are not all the same. There are some awsome, hardcore, diehard fans here. However, with them, come the event fans you mentioned and they will always be here to follow an advertisment to a game. And the city is only growing.

[asterix606]

You posted this already elsewhere didn't you?

Do you call not giving the club any money a revolt?


Not really, I had just posted the PPG for TFC in 2012.

This time I added all seasons and the other two Canadian teams.

Other intersting info:

SEATTLE PPG

2009 = 1.56
2010 = 1.60
2011 = 1.85
2012 = 1.60

[West220Side]

I'm getting sort of bothered that every thread on this board is filled with the same whining. Honestly the group thats just complaining non-stop on the SUPPORTERS forum should just go ahead and make their own forum dedicated to flinging shit at the club. How about just you guys elect one guy, and he can stand outside of BMO Field with a megaphone and read out comments, yeah? Seriously. Can we not just have one thread for this? Its getting sort of played out. When your transfer rumor thread is filled with nonsense about how shit the club is, the pre/post match filled with how shit the club is, I bet if I started up a thread for a fun-run campaign a bunch of the negative posters would jump on saying they can't run they're to depressed because the clubs shit. Lets dial it back a little? I know I can't be the only one getting a bit annoyed by those stating the obvious over-and-over again.

[asterix606]

I think that many TFC fans would make great suicide prevention councelors.

Even after 6 dreadful, depressing, mind numbing seasons, you still cheer, stay positive and see the bright side of TFC.

We could definetly use you guys on our phones!

http://www.suicidehotlines.com/canada.html

[khso11]

I'm getting sort of bothered that every thread on this board is filled with the same whining. Honestly the group thats just complaining non-stop on the SUPPORTERS forum should just go ahead and make their own forum dedicated to flinging shit at the club. How about just you guys elect one guy, and he can stand outside of BMO Field with a megaphone and read out comments, yeah? Seriously. Can we not just have one thread for this? Its getting sort of played out. When your transfer rumor thread is filled with nonsense about how shit the club is, the pre/post match filled with how shit the club is, I bet if I started up a thread for a fun-run campaign a bunch of the negative posters would jump on saying they can't run they're to depressed because the clubs shit. Lets dial it back a little? I know I can't be the only one getting a bit annoyed by those stating the obvious over-and-over again.

there's just some negative people here trying to instigate, that's why every thread contains some negative comments, i guess you can tell who those people are.

[Toronto]

I'm getting sort of bothered that every thread on this board is filled with the same whining. Honestly the group thats just complaining non-stop on the SUPPORTERS forum should just go ahead and make their own forum dedicated to flinging shit at the club. How about just you guys elect one guy, and he can stand outside of BMO Field with a megaphone and read out comments, yeah? Seriously. Can we not just have one thread for this? Its getting sort of played out. When your transfer rumor thread is filled with nonsense about how shit the club is, the pre/post match filled with how shit the club is, I bet if I started up a thread for a fun-run campaign a bunch of the negative posters would jump on saying they can't run they're to depressed because the clubs shit. Lets dial it back a little? I know I can't be the only one getting a bit annoyed by those stating the obvious over-and-over again.

If it shits like a duck and shits like a duck and continues to continues to shit itself. It's duck who shits allot. I pay my money, so I'll point out every time that ducks shits. And every time that ducks shits at BMO, the crowds grow smaller and smaller. I think it has to do with the stench of all that duck shit.

[Brooker]

If it shits like a duck and shits like a duck and continues to continues to shit itself. It's duck who shits allot.

If I had a signature, this would be it.

[Fort York Redcoat]

If it shits like a duck and shits like a duck and continues to continues to shit itself. It's duck who shits allot. I pay my money, so I'll point out every time that ducks shits. And every time that ducks shits at BMO, the crowds grow smaller and smaller. I think it has to do with the stench of all that duck shit.

I think Rohan Ricketts would've responded well to this.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3035/2522355521_d77eee0c50.jpg



Meanwhile I think I'll concentrate more on the talking and walking, no matter how poor it is. That's what I pay for.

[maninb]

There is a big difference here. Before their slumps these teams were around for many decades during which they enjoyed success and built a multi-generational fanbase. This makes it more likely that fans will endure prolonged periods of drought. TFC has sucked from day one. They have never provided us with anything but very small victories (the Canadian Championship, a few individual league or CCL games here and there). TFC have not earned our loyalty. We just gave it to them unconditionally.

Very well said sir.... I dropped mine after S4...and still enjoy going but a whole lot less frequently...

[gate7]

Just to add to this and kind of a side note:

You can go to CCL games without season tickets as well.
Don't be sold otherwise when your renewal package comes in!


This is true, yet if I can recall correctly the Amway games are forced down your throat and are more expensive than CCL games...

Amway games should be free for ssh IMO as they do in Europe for qualifying games.

[Fort York Redcoat]

This is true, yet if I can recall correctly the Amway games are forced down your throat and are more expensive than CCL games...

Amway games should be free for ssh IMO as they do in Europe for qualifying games.

Disagree. The Voyageurs Cup is more important than a league game to me.

Lower regular season games and make the Vcup and CCL special pricing.

[Dave67]

Disagree. The Voyageurs Cup is more important than a league game to me.

Lower regular season games and make the Vcup and CCL special pricing.

This would make you (most likely) the only person alive with this viewpoint. The V Cup should have been a freebie from day one.

[gate7]

i agree Vcup is more important, but make it special pricing like you said or make it free for ssh as a perk. It feels wrong being forced into it. btw i've never missed a Vcup or ccl game and cant understand how I was one of only a few that went to the Aguila game..

[jabbronies]

i agree Vcup is more important, but make it special pricing like you said or make it free for ssh as a perk. It feels wrong being forced into it. btw i've never missed a Vcup or ccl game and cant understand how I was one of only a few that went to the Aguila game..

It very simple actually. People are tired of paying premium prices for bottom feeder football. 6 years on has taught us that this team isn't an MLS contender - they are bottom feeders / pillions / scrimmage team for the top teams in the league. They are in the league to make money - not play football. Proof is in the results and the pricing vs. other MLS teams.

[Fort York Redcoat]

This would make you (most likely) the only person alive with this viewpoint. The V Cup should have been a freebie from day one.

For 3 years it was the only time we played Vancouver.
For 4 years the V Cup was the only way to see our biggest (and arguably only true) rival city Montreal.

Both opposing teams proved they were more talented than their USL/NASL league level in competition and made it more exciting than most league matches I've attended with minimal emotion between teams.

This tournament should be in a spotlight and making it a freebie degrades it.

Again I say if you want a lower overall season ticket, fine. Don't do it by making the VCup an also-ran.

[TFC_Allez]

Drop prices across the board. Period. Whether its for season tickets, or VCup games, or regular season games or for champions league game, the prices are too high based on the product on the field. How else do you think you're going to get more butts into the glorified bleachers that make BMO after 6 losing seasons, and winning a cup (VCup) over and over again that no one else besides true supports cares about, without dropping the prices on everything?
Also, It's obvious that this city doesn't understand the importance of cup matches that aren't classified as "playoff games", so why not include some, if not all, of these tickets in a SSH package so at least the SSH's might feel compelled to go? Seems pretty simple to me, but we all know ML$E will find a way to blow it.

[Technorgasm]

I love minging and bitching on the interwebs, thats what its for.
we are fucking aweful, a COMPLETE joke in every sense of the word.
We need to have some stability and a clear idea of wher we want to go. . maybe we have that now? who knows.

but please.
please for the love of GOD and all that is holy NO PROTESTS!!
they solve absolutely nothing and make us look like a bunch of fucking wankers . . . . . . . . . .

[Pookie]

For 3 years it was the only time we played Vancouver.
For 4 years the V Cup was the only way to see our biggest (and arguably only true) rival city Montreal.

Both opposing teams proved they were more talented than their USL/NASL league level in competition and made it more exciting than most league matches I've attended with minimal emotion between teams.

This tournament should be in a spotlight and making it a freebie degrades it.

Again I say if you want a lower overall season ticket, fine. Don't do it by making the VCup an also-ran.

It's all a matter of optics, IMO.

LA Galaxy include 3 "Bonus" games in the season ticket package. In the past, those games have included friendlies and believe it or not, MLS Cup playoff games. They aren't downgrading their games against Chelsea or the MLS Cup Playoffs. They are simply providing "value" for owning season tickets. Fans don't have to fork out more money to see those "Bonus" games and that establishes a bit of a connection. If the team does well, I will be there to support them.

A simple strategy like that would go along way.

[Fort York Redcoat]

This would make you (most likely) the only person alive with this viewpoint. The V Cup should have been a freebie from day one.


Drop prices across the board. Period. Whether its for season tickets, or VCup games, or regular season games or for champions league game, the prices are too high based on the product on the field. How else do you think you're going to get more butts into the glorified bleachers that make BMO after 6 losing seasons, and winning a cup (VCup) over and over again that no one else besides true supports cares about, without dropping the prices on everything?
Also, It's obvious that this city doesn't understand the importance of cup matches that aren't classified as "playoff games", so why not include some, if not all, of these tickets in a SSH package so at least the SSH's might feel compelled to go? Seems pretty simple to me, but we all know ML$E will find a way to blow it.

Ticket prices are such a farce in general.

We have a season tickets package that should be lowered in price. That's it. It's ridiculous that they price different teams at different "Premium" prices (apart from Becks and Henry no team generates extra hype)

To add value with "free" games for season ticket holders is an unnecessary carrot. Just lower the overall price of every game.

It's a headshaker that we talk incessantly about renewing and look at our tix that are priced so outrageously higher than what we pay per ticket for real and THEN...

The club turns around and sell these ridiculously priced ticket to scalpers like groupon etc. for a fraction.

[Dave67]

I sure agree that the prices are a farce, it was one of my reasons for bailing on seasons this year. Of the many reasons I dropped seasons is I saw no value beyond sitting with the same people (and they were great people).

By making the VCup a freebie for season ticket holders they could have started a process of adding value to season ticket holders. They could have achieved this by blending the extra games into the season ticket package when the number of games went up. They could have achieved it by holding more meaningful events for free for the season ticket holders. They could have done it by building a respected winning organization. There are so many things they could have done, but they have done almost nothing.

I really hope 2013 brings some real signs of a turnaround for us all. No matter if you are a hardcore supporter, a soccer mom or a person who just likes to catch a few minutes of the game in a bar, nothing about this team is pretty this year.

[Joe Kool]

Price is my number one sticking point too when it comes to renewal. There is just no incentive to be a season ticket holder. Let's look at the benefits as outline by the TFC FO:

1. Your own dedicated Account Representative - Big deal. If you call the GOAL line you can talk to one if needed.

2. Access to Account Manager - Not really a benefit in my opinion. I can forward my softcopy tickets purchased from variety of methods by email if I need to.

3. Ticket Exchange feature inside Account Manager - So what? You can buy full priced tickets? Don't make me laugh. People were trying to get rid of tickets for as low as $10 on our Ticket Trader. Lots of tickets available without needing Ticket Exchange.

4. First Access to Playoff Tickets - If we ever made it, could be a good thing but right now I don't know the feeling.

5. Discount Card for Toronto FC Merchandise - 15% off for STH's but then shortly into the season they offer everyone 30% off for most of the year and you can't use your STH card so why do we have one?

6. E-mail Subscription - Whoopee!!...anyone on the their mailing list gets an email. I don't know of any special "season ticket holder" emails I have ever received.

Summary....there is no benefit. They also used to have listed "special season ticket holder events" but those never happened during any year so I guess they felt they had to remove that item from the list. I think we should add a few more to the list.

7. Inability to sell unused tickets due to extremely low demand.

8. Price guarantee - You will receive one of the highest prices in the league and if they continue to do bad they will freeze the prices (maybe) until they can figure out how to get out of the basement of the standings and bring back support. Tom A. figures we are one good winning streak away from doing it so why change.

9. Relocation guarantee - With dwindling support and a sure to be pathetic renewal percentage they can guarantee you a great chance to move your seats to a better location to watch just how bad the soccer is at the same great prices of 2012 (maybe).

I am sure others can add more to this list. One thing they should have done from the start of this downturn in tickets sales/renewals, in my opinion, is a loyalty discount. The more years you hold season seats you should receive a percentage off the price and it shouldn't just be a fixed renewal price. At least this would encourage and reward those of us that have stuck it out through so many years. The STH card should have been good for concessions all along and not just merchandise. They should add "season ticket holder events" back to the list and actually hold them for all season ticket holders. I know that may be a feat with 16000 STH's but six people taste testing BMO food at the beginning of the year doesn't count as a STH event to fulfill that commitment in my opinion.

I love my seats. I love hanging out with the people around me. I just don't know if I can pay the same again for another year. I will decide on the last day or the renewal period.

[Fort York Redcoat]

^Joe those points are bang on but for one.

The relocation has always been about finding a cheaper ticket for me. I know I'm not alone and I'd think I'm in the majority for once.

This feature alone is one point I'd stress as a measure to anyone saying that pricepoint is an issue.

[ryan]

I can't imagine any "loyalty" is coming our way. New owners, why are they going to "eat it" and give us "loyalty rewards" when it was the previous owner who did the gouging?

We've given nothing to Bogers, they won't be throwing us any bones for the OTPP rape we've endured.

[Joe Kool]

^Joe those points are bang on but for one.

The relocation has always been about finding a cheaper ticket for me. I know I'm not alone and I'd think I'm in the majority for once.

This feature alone is one point I'd stress as a measure to anyone saying that pricepoint is an issue.

I agree with you actually and I did the same each year until I got into the supporter section and now I can't go any lower in price. Maybe I didn't word it right. When I said same prices (if they freeze) I meant they are not going to change the price of the tickets for each section if moving in the same price level. For an individual you definitely will be able to downgrade what you were paying this year by moving to cheaper sections. I bet this year will be the best opportunity to relocate and pay less than ever before for those renewing and are currently paying more.

Unfortunately in my personal situation the renewal price I paid last year, even though cheapest in the stadium, may be too much for me to hold onto my tickets this time around so pricepoint is still an issue. If TFC were doing well I could get enough interest in friends/family to split my seats with me to keep them but the team is in the tank so bad as far as they are concerned that they wouldn't bother putting any money down with me. All the people I know that I used to sell pairs to when I couldn't go or needed some money won't buy them anymore and people on Ticket Trader are looking for below STH cost these days, and usually get it, so I can't recoup anything if needed there. I used to park at Ontario Place for the cheaper parking ($5-$12) but now that is $20 all year round. $16-20 at the stadium. I can't park further than that because my wife has an illness and can't make the walk. I know there are more people are in my position with me and trying to justify the benefit of owning seats despite loving to be at the game. I just wish TFC and the FO would create some actual benefit other than what they listed on their website.

[ryan]

I agree with you actually and I did the same each year until I got into the supporter section and now I can't go any lower in price. Maybe I didn't word it right. When I said same prices (if they freeze) I meant they are not going to change the price of the tickets for each section if moving in the same price level. For an individual you definitely will be able to downgrade what you were paying this year by moving to cheaper sections. I bet this year will be the best opportunity to relocate and pay less than ever before for those renewing and are currently paying more.

Unfortunately in my personal situation the renewal price I paid last year, even though cheapest in the stadium, may be too much for me to hold onto my tickets this time around so pricepoint is still an issue. If TFC were doing well I could get enough interest in friends/family to split my seats with me to keep them but the team is in the tank so bad as far as they are concerned that they wouldn't bother putting any money down with me. All the people I know that I used to sell pairs to when I couldn't go or needed some money won't buy them anymore and people on Ticket Trader are looking for below STH cost these days, and usually get it, so I can't recoup anything if needed there. I used to park at Ontario Place for the cheaper parking ($5-$12) but now that is $20 all year round. $16-20 at the stadium. I can't park further than that because my wife has an illness and can't make the walk. I know there are more people are in my position with me and trying to justify the benefit of owning seats despite loving to be at the game. I just wish TFC and the FO would create some actual benefit other than what they listed on their website.

You can usually park just on the other side of the tracks in those really long lots, for like $5, and that's probably the same distance as the OP lots. Many times I park at lamport 15 mins before kickoff and when I walk by those lots, they still have room and I kick myself for not going for em.

[ag futbol]

We've given nothing to Bogers, they won't be throwing us any bones for the OTPP rape we've endured.
You are probably right, but in business terms there are plenty of reasons why they might be well advised to.

There is a lot of research out there showing that it's easier to retain your present customers, rather than attract new ones. This club has ground a lot of people into indifference, which is pretty scarey considering they might never come back regardless of what the future holds.

[Joe Kool]

You can usually park just on the other side of the tracks in those really long lots, for like $5, and that's probably the same distance as the OP lots. Many times I park at lamport 15 mins before kickoff and when I walk by those lots, they still have room and I kick myself for not going for em.

Thanks dude. Maybe I will try that next time.

[ryan]

You are probably right, but in business terms there are plenty of reasons why they might be well advised to.

There is a lot of research out there showing that it's easier to retain your present customers, rather than attract new ones. This club has ground a lot of people into indifference, which is pretty scarey considering they might never come back regardless of what the future holds.

That is true and nobody will know that better than Rogers/Bell, but they certainly know price gouging better than OTPP could have ever dreamed.

We'll see I guess.

[London]

^^^ shit, it's gonna be "bundle this" or "add on that", this could get realy ugly

[TFC Tifoso]

using the thread title "Doesn't it bother you?", I'll use a line from Tupac......."and I can't even trip, coz I'm just laughing at you"........kinda sums up my feelings about this team right now.........

[cmonyoureds]

^^^ shit, it's gonna be "bundle this" or "add on that", this could get realy ugly

Only for existing customers. You should see the deals they offered me this week when I switched my internet/phone/tv to a new provider. "Please come back loyalty team" called me TWICE in one week!!! I can't even get an answer within a month when I call them.....

I plan on renewing nothing and picking up tix with "special deals" and "new customer pricing" that I'm sure will be implemented!!!!

[Joe Kool]

Only for existing customers. You should see the deals they offered me this week when I switched my internet/phone/tv to a new provider. "Please come back loyalty team" called me TWICE in one week!!! I can't even get an answer within a month when I call them.....

I plan on renewing nothing and picking up tix with "special deals" and "new customer pricing" that I'm sure will be implemented!!!!

So you are saying if we switch from being Vancouver Whitecaps or Montreal Impact supporters we will get a better deal than existing TFC season ticket holders? If we leave as a TFC season ticket holder they will call us back and offer us 6 months free if we say we will keep the season tickets on a contract for 2 years? Hahaha...sounds about right. I dealt with all that stuff switching to Bell from Rogers earlier in the year.

[Fort York Redcoat]

So you are saying if we switch from being Vancouver Whitecaps or Montreal Impact supporters we will get a better deal than existing TFC season ticket holders? If we leave as a TFC season ticket holder they will call us back and offer us 6 months free if we say we will keep the season tickets on a contract for 2 years? Hahaha...sounds about right. I dealt with all that stuff switching to Bell from Rogers earlier in the year.

I know this is a joking line of thought but seriously speaking on this-

If I were to walk away there is plenty of local live football to see and it wouldn't be a team in some far away city. Actually, it would cut down on my travel to see local footy.

[T-boy]

did anybody notice on the (US internet feed) during the game last night that the Crew were offering "19% off 2012 season ticket price for 2013"? That's a good offer from a much better team than TFC. And great marketing!

MLSE have a lot to learn!

[C.Ronaldo]

using the thread title "Doesn't it bother you?", I'll use a line from Tupac......."and I can't even trip, coz I'm just laughing at you"........kinda sums up my feelings about this team right now.........

while we are quoting the greatest lyricist of all time...."they dont give a f*ck about us!"

playoffs, yah right
paying till we die
lookn in their supporters eyes
they dont give a f*ck about us

[__wowza]

Price is my number one sticking point too when it comes to renewal. There is just no incentive to be a season ticket holder. Let's look at the benefits as outline by the TFC FO:

1. Your own dedicated Account Representative - Big deal. If you call the GOAL line you can talk to one if needed.

2. Access to Account Manager - Not really a benefit in my opinion. I can forward my softcopy tickets purchased from variety of methods by email if I need to.

3. Ticket Exchange feature inside Account Manager - So what? You can buy full priced tickets? Don't make me laugh. People were trying to get rid of tickets for as low as $10 on our Ticket Trader. Lots of tickets available without needing Ticket Exchange.

4. First Access to Playoff Tickets - If we ever made it, could be a good thing but right now I don't know the feeling.

5. Discount Card for Toronto FC Merchandise - 15% off for STH's but then shortly into the season they offer everyone 30% off for most of the year and you can't use your STH card so why do we have one?

6. E-mail Subscription - Whoopee!!...anyone on the their mailing list gets an email. I don't know of any special "season ticket holder" emails I have ever received.

Summary....there is no benefit. They also used to have listed "special season ticket holder events" but those never happened during any year so I guess they felt they had to remove that item from the list. I think we should add a few more to the list.

7. Inability to sell unused tickets due to extremely low demand.

8. Price guarantee - You will receive one of the highest prices in the league and if they continue to do bad they will freeze the prices (maybe) until they can figure out how to get out of the basement of the standings and bring back support. Tom A. figures we are one good winning streak away from doing it so why change.

9. Relocation guarantee - With dwindling support and a sure to be pathetic renewal percentage they can guarantee you a great chance to move your seats to a better location to watch just how bad the soccer is at the same great prices of 2012 (maybe).

I am sure others can add more to this list. One thing they should have done from the start of this downturn in tickets sales/renewals, in my opinion, is a loyalty discount. The more years you hold season seats you should receive a percentage off the price and it shouldn't just be a fixed renewal price. At least this would encourage and reward those of us that have stuck it out through so many years. The STH card should have been good for concessions all along and not just merchandise. They should add "season ticket holder events" back to the list and actually hold them for all season ticket holders. I know that may be a feat with 16000 STH's but six people taste testing BMO food at the beginning of the year doesn't count as a STH event to fulfill that commitment in my opinion.

I love my seats. I love hanging out with the people around me. I just don't know if I can pay the same again for another year. I will decide on the last day or the renewal period.


i'm quoting your entire post because everyone should read it.
last year, i made it out to 8 games. 8 games, by spending a whopping total of $40.

i got them for free, from someone unloading tickets on the board (in exchange for beer), or from hard up scalpers willing to make $5 instead of nothing. you're telling me that i should pay $50 for a ticket in the north end when i can get a ticket for $15 or less and sit wherever i want in a half empty stadium?

[ryan]

i'm quoting your entire post because everyone should read it.
last year, i made it out to 8 games. 8 games, by spending a whopping total of $40.

i got them for free, from someone unloading tickets on the board (in exchange for beer), or from hard up scalpers willing to make $5 instead of nothing. you're telling me that i should pay $50 for a ticket in the north end when i can get a ticket for $15 or less and sit wherever i want in a half empty stadium?

I think we need to be cautious about boasting how we can sit where we want. They will start locking down on checking tickets when we come out in the sections, I just know it.

[eustacchio]

I think we need to be cautious about boasting how we can sit where we want. They will start locking down on checking tickets when we come out in the sections, I just know it.

This isn't something new to us or them. Considering that there are days when I can have an entire row to myself in 112, I don't think they're overly concerned.

(Although, your point remains valid.)

[ryan]

This isn't something new to us or them. Considering that there are days when I can have an entire row to myself in 112, I don't think they're overly concerned.

(Although, your point remains valid.)

I know it's not new. I've never sat in my SSH seats, ever. No point. But to get people to pay for where they want to sit....they could enforce.

[__wowza]

I think we need to be cautious about boasting how we can sit where we want. They will start locking down on checking tickets when we come out in the sections, I just know it.

honestly, there's games where the entire supporters section can uproot and sit at midfield during our CCL, or voyagers cup matches. they should encourage this, it'd look fantastic on camera.

[eustacchio]

I know it's not new. I've never sat in my SSH seats, ever. No point. But to get people to pay for where they want to sit....they could enforce.

Do you usually go up a price point or do you head into the supporter's section?

[ryan]

honestly, there's games where the entire supporters section can uproot and sit at midfield during our CCL, or voyagers cup matches. they should encourage this, it'd look fantastic on camera.

I agree it would look amazing, but they won't. Undermines the value of those seats and those who did end up buying there.


Do you usually go up a price point or do you head into the supporter's section?

Depends on how I'm feeling, the weather, which way we go, who I'm with. I'll move at half to stay at our attacking end usually. Might settle in at midfield if I'm tired. Might come crush into the empty spaces of rows 8-11 in 112, or sit front row in the north stand. I just go with wherever the feeling takes me.

[Whoop]

Gone from the days where 112 was over flowing with capacity to now where 112 is sometimes the emptiest section in the south end.

[eustacchio]

Gone from the days where 112 was over flowing with capacity to now where 112 is sometimes the emptiest section in the south end.

sigh

[asterix606]

did anybody notice on the (US internet feed) during the game last night that the Crew were offering "19% off 2012 season ticket price for 2013"? That's a good offer from a much better team than TFC. And great marketing!

MLSE have a lot to learn!


We as fans also have a lot to learn! Stop supporting this shit franchise financially!

http://www.best-of-web.com/_images_300/Greedy_Businessman_Standing_in_Money_110315-191859-557042.jpg

[james]

In Europe soccer leagues some big clubs fans think if they don't win there League tittle then it was an awful season even if they finnish 2nd or 3rd. Other clubs think if they can qualify to Europa League or top half the league think it as a fantastic season. Other clubs think as long as they don't get relegated from top division its a good season, while others say like West Ham for example being in the 2nd division is awful, while another smaller club might think 2nd division is a great place to be and the club most likely will never make it any higher and fans are fine with that.

In North America i think all fans exspect there teams whether its NBA, NFL, NHL or MLS to make the playoffs or else its a bad season, and us being in North America i can say thats how just about all TFC fans feel, and doing that 6 years in a row is extremely bad, and i think most fans do care and are sick of it!

[Suds]

We will probably finish the season with 26 points in 34 games.

This would equal to 0.76 Points Per Game average! (Could be the worst PPG average in our history)

Ohhh yeahhh MLSE, I see lots of progression after 6 years.


But, but, but .... Anselmi says he sees that we are heading in the right direction. :rolleyes:

[asterix606]

It is obvious for all of us (except MLSE) that we are getting worst and worst and worst.....

*2012 numbers are my estimate of 26 points in 34 games. Which could very well happen!


TFC Points per game average

2007 0.83 (first year)
2008 1.16 (+0.33 PPG = +39.7% more than 2007)
2009 1.30 (+0.14 PPG = +12.0% more than 2008)
2010 1.16 (-0.14 PPG = -12.0% less than 2009)
2011 0.97 (-0.19 PPG = -16.3% less than 2010)
2012 0.76 (-0.21 PPG = -21.6 % less than 2011)

NOTE: Montréal is presently at 1.33 PPG with 7 games left. We never even got that high in our history!!



2007 to 2012
http://rlv.zcache.co.uk/walking_alone_in_desert_postcard-p239480284591257741baanr_400.jpg


TFC fan base 2013

http://imagecache6.allposters.com/LRG/28/2811/1FJOD00Z.jpg

[kodiakTFC]

There are a lot of things about this team that bother me. One of them being its obvious to me that MLSE wants to win (see third highest payroll, academy, etc.) but has no clue how apparently. For parity's sake, we should've been competitive atleast once by now.

[Fort York Redcoat]

It is obvious for all of us (except MLSE) that we are getting worst and worst and worst.....



*worse

One can't get worse than worst.

[Suds]

*worse

One can't get worse than worst.

MLSE will figure out a way. g:D

[ryan]

*worse

One can't get worse than worst.

We can start losing V's cups. There is another low.

[Blizzard]

We can start losing V's cups. There is another low.


All things considered, it's a miracle that we won it this year.

[Libra_60]

Here is the email I sent after I read the Impact lowered their SSH tickets by 15%. It just shows you that their President and owner is someone how understands his business but more importantly his customers.

Good afternoon Mr. Beirne,

I am sure you have seen the link to the Montreal Impacts2013 SSH ticket renewal prices. MLSE & TFC’s management and front officebetter take a look at this prior to sending out TFC’s renewal package andpricing.

If I am to renew my Seasons seats for 2013, there better bea price reduction. If the Impact who are a more talented bunch and have a waymore sound management structure than TFC can reduce SSH tickets TFC betteralso.

The product you put on the field is atrocious, just look atlast night’s performance against Santos Laguna. Until you start putting aproduct on the field that deserves everyone’s money, right pricing SSH ticketsshould be MLSE’s 1st priority.

Personally, I would like to renew but the cost plus thegetting in and out of the game on weekdays (can’t stand weekday games) plus theproduct and dysfunction on & off the field doesn’t give me any incentive torenew.

Kind Regards,
SSH - Section 105 Row 22

[maninb]

Here is the email I sent after I read the Impact lowered their SSH tickets by 15%. It just shows you that their President and owner is someone how understands his business but more importantly his customers.

Good afternoon Mr. Beirne,

I am sure you have seen the link to the Montreal Impacts2013 SSH ticket renewal prices. MLSE & TFC’s management and front officebetter take a look at this prior to sending out TFC’s renewal package andpricing.

If I am to renew my Seasons seats for 2013, there better bea price reduction. If the Impact who are a more talented bunch and have a waymore sound management structure than TFC can reduce SSH tickets TFC betteralso.

The product you put on the field is atrocious, just look atlast night’s performance against Santos Laguna. Until you start putting aproduct on the field that deserves everyone’s money, right pricing SSH ticketsshould be MLSE’s 1st priority.

Personally, I would like to renew but the cost plus thegetting in and out of the game on weekdays (can’t stand weekday games) plus theproduct and dysfunction on & off the field doesn’t give me any incentive torenew.

Kind Regards,
SSH - Section 105 Row 22

Well said sir.....

[ArmenJBX]

http://www.sportsclubstats.com/USA/TorontoFC.html

In case there was any shred of hope, even if Toronto FC go 8-0-0 in their next eight games, they are still out of playoff contention.

[__wowza]

i'd put the chances of us winning our last 8 games on par with beating santos laguna at home and on GD.

[Fort York Redcoat]

http://www.sportsclubstats.com/USA/TorontoFC.html

In case there was any shred of hope, even if Toronto FC go 8-0-0 in their next eight games, they are still out of playoff contention.

Ya there wasn't.

But 8 wins would have a lot of people turned around on Mariner.

[Oldtimer]

i'd put the chances of us winning our last 8 games on par with beating santos laguna at home and on GD.

I'd put the chance of winning 4 games on par with that.

[bigredone]

Many posts about what to look forward to next season. Is a new leaf possible? Mariner, MLSE goons, still around. Uncertain roster playing for the "worst team in the world". Torsten's life line? D.K.s recovery time? who knows. All I did after the Santos game was sigh. I am finding it harder these days. Harder to go to games and spend the cash, harder to buy gear. The disconnect from the team caused by a lack of appreciation for the fans is killing me. Someone please help me stay the course.

With the CCL being a routine thing now the only highlight of this year is Dunfield.

[Fort York Redcoat]

First I was all like...

http://i.thestar.com/images/a1/bf/aa320e074c869f1500fe65a8ef46.jpeg

Then I went to this place...

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5261/5789276830_7d12bf7b40.jpg

[Fort York Redcoat]

...And now I'm like...

http://lolmls.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/LOLMLS_305.jpg

[bigredone]

^Amazing^ I need his jersey!

[TorontoGooner]

Haha. Dunfield is a terrible player. For me he optimizes what little quality the club has. But, I guess people love that "0% skill, 100% hear" shit. Mariner included. Unless there are significant price reductions and/or a player worth signing added to the team, I won't be spending my hard earned cash on this shite anymore.

By the way, this isn't a dig at Redcoat, I found those posts quite funny :)

[bigredone]

Just a little fun taken from all this chaos.

From the ashes of TFC arises Terence Dunfield. Now that must bother you.

[newb]

From the ashes of TFC arises Terence Dunfield. Now that must bother you.

I think the thing that bothers me most about TFC is that even if someone recognizes that there is a problem I have 0 confidence in their (MLSE) ability to fix the problem.

I've seen a lot of people calling for a complete re-org of the FO but my problem with that (and don't get me wrong, I 100% want to see that re-org happen) is this: I have complete faith that MLSE will do the re-org wrong and nothing will improve.

Sadly my mantra for TFC has been this lately: I love TFC, I'll always watch and support TFC...But I kinda hate TFC right now.

[bigredone]

"I'm happy and angry" - Ralph Wiggum

This sums up my TFC thoughts. Even better if happy is replaced with sad.

[Redcoe15]

http://i815.photobucket.com/albums/zz74/victor_the_crab/SadTFCGirl.jpg?t=1342207429

STOP MAKING TFC GIRL SAD, YOU DOUCHES!!!!!

[bigredone]

^I am back to deeply loving TFC now, for some reason^:yum:^^^some strange reason.

[ParadymeTFC]

http://i916.photobucket.com/albums/ad9/thinsperger/RetroWallpapers/ShibaTFCFinal.jpg

Looks like TFC may have to hire us for some damage control.

[JuliquE]

http://i815.photobucket.com/albums/zz74/victor_the_crab/SadTFCGirl.jpg?t=1342207429

STOP MAKING TFC GIRL SAD, YOU DOUCHES!!!!!
Russian supermodel: All this yelling is taking away my horny.
Moe Saint Cool: Ih-is it?! Alright, THAT'S it!

[bigredone]

TFC's limp and weak balls have nothing to do with it?

[Redcoe15]

http://i916.photobucket.com/albums/ad9/thinsperger/RetroWallpapers/ShibaTFCFinal.jpg


Nice view! :ihih:

[Furtado91]

soon this will be a tfc hentai thread ahahahah.

[__wowza]

Russian supermodel: All this yelling is taking away my horny.
Moe Saint Cool: Ih-is it?! Alright, THAT'S it!

Russian Supermodel: after chernobyl my penis is falling off..
Moe Saint Cool: and penis is russian for..?

[JuliquE]

Russian Supermodel: after chernobyl my penis is falling off..
Moe Saint Cool: and penis is russian for..?
xD Wanted to post that one, but I didn't want to offend anyone.

[Alonso]

That after six years, and four of them not even close to playoff-level soccer, we're still relying on moral victories and "possibly improvements heading into next season" yet again? A draw with Portland is "okay" I guess. But we're still easily the worst team in MLS and that little run we had was just our usual unbeaten stretch surrounded by tons upon tons of froggy shit.

Vancouver in two years is better than we've ever been at any point. Seattle has been a success from year one. Philly made the playoffs in year two. Montreal has some potential.

And here we are possibly the worst team in MLS history struggling to compete with even mediocre competition like Portland. We doubled their road goal-scoring total for the season. What the fuck is that shit all about?

I don't want excuses. I want a winning team. Not moral victories. And I see no sign of hope that it's coming. It really sucks.


It totally bothers me.

We are the worst run team in the league for 6 years now. I think we'll most likely set futility records going into the next few seasons and the organization responds by promoting the guy in charge. And it sounds like Cochrane will get promoted as well, which completely boggles the mind.

I'm not renewing my seasons, hopefully many other in my section won't as well. At $1,000 per seat, that would be the only message ML$E will likely listen to.

[asterix606]

It totally bothers me.

We are the worst run team in the league for 6 years now. I think we'll most likely set futility records going into the next few seasons and the organization responds by promoting the guy in charge. And it sounds like Cochrane will get promoted as well, which completely boggles the mind.

I'm not renewing my seasons, hopefully many other in my section won't as well. At $1,000 per seat, that would be the only message ML$E will likely listen to.


You are absolutely right!!

6 Seasons X Highest price tickets in MLS + Last place team = F.U MLSE