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View Full Version : ........new direction?



coisty1966
07-15-2008, 11:03 AM
realizing that Carver and Mo both have close ties with europe particularly the UK. I find it fruitless looking over to europe for old players in the twilight of there careers to try and come over here to make an impact. Dickov, Suker, Huckerby etc.....are these the players that we should be looking at? there are younger players all over Mexico, central america and South America that might be willing to come up here for a payday?? players like Buonanotte at River or Palacio at Boca? maybe the trick is to try and get these guys "before" they make the jump to Europe? I think it would be a wise investment to expand the scouting staff to these areas of the Globe...Thoughts?

Loyal
07-15-2008, 11:06 AM
Let's stay away from all "aging" strikers, unless they are on one year deals. Nothing worse than being forced to play, or carry, somone with a big ticket that can not contribute any more!

Pachuco
07-15-2008, 11:09 AM
Well, we'll know once Huckerby finishes the season with SJ. Whether he would've been worth it or not. I personally think he'll make an impact in the MLS. And that's without a midfield that can feed him, except maybe Ronnie O.

Ossington Mental Youth
07-15-2008, 11:09 AM
give it time, just signed that scout this year.
We are in our second year so our scouting system is far from strong.

noochie
07-15-2008, 11:10 AM
I dunno... is there any proof that they aren't looking there?

Pachuco
07-15-2008, 11:11 AM
By the way, I agree with getting younger players from south/central and North America. Problem is, if these guys show potential, they are swept up by European teams. So we have to go with the ones who have fallen through the scouts. For example, Caraccio on Houston. Who has made 0 impact in the MLS.

noochie
07-15-2008, 11:12 AM
In fact, I seem to recall that Mo spent a good deal of time in South America before the pre-season really got under way.

The biggest problem with Europe granted is that offering a USD contract, you are already at a disadvantage given the exchange.

noochie
07-15-2008, 11:12 AM
By the way, I agree with getting younger players from south/central and North America. Problem is, if these guys show potential, they are swept up by European teams. So we have to go with the ones who have fallen through the scouts. For example, Caraccio on Houston. Who has made 0 impact in the MLS.

Add Niell to the list.

coisty1966
07-15-2008, 11:14 AM
give it time, just signed that scout this year.
We are in our second year so our scouting system is far from strong.

granted...just stating that these southern countries should be a priority to scout.....look at all the brazilians playing in eastern europe....places like poland, croatia, russia.......Wagner Love comes to mind...scores about a goal every other game for CSKA....i am sure some of these guys would come to North america.......lets get them to look at us first....

olegunnar
07-15-2008, 11:15 AM
Add Niell to the list.

And the Argie RSL released

Pachuco
07-15-2008, 11:18 AM
granted...just stating that these southern countries should be a priority to scout.....look at all the brazilians playing in eastern europe....places like poland, croatia, russia.......Wagner Love comes to mind...scores about a goal every other game for CSKA....i am sure some of these guys would come to North america.......lets get them to look at us first....

That's the point. They won't look here first. If our own youth wouldn't look here first why would someone from abroad? the league perception has to change before these guys even listen to our scouts.

coisty1966
07-15-2008, 11:18 AM
By the way, I agree with getting younger players from south/central and North America. Problem is, if these guys show potential, they are swept up by European teams. So we have to go with the ones who have fallen through the scouts. For example, Caraccio on Houston. Who has made 0 impact in the MLS.

there will always be busts....whether from europe, soth america, mexico, whatever.....if they we get a couple good years out of them and they are swept away to europe so be it....get more.....teams like Ajax are like this....they make there name there and move on to bigger things.....works for them...we are afterall , Not a big club in a big league...

coisty1966
07-15-2008, 11:22 AM
That's the point. They won't look here first. If our own youth wouldn't look here first why would someone from abroad? the league perception has to change before these guys even listen to our scouts.

we need someone down there that can convince them......double edge sword i know as we need the "name players" from europe to as you say change the league perception and i realize that....i just think we should be the first to make a "real" push down there and not just tag along when other teams start doing it

noochie
07-15-2008, 11:23 AM
And the Argie RSL released

Ah yes, Cordoba.

I understand the direction. But MLS is going to run into this problem wherever they try and scout. If is going to be very tough to compete with scouting organizations from around the world for a number of reasons. Not the least of which is that TFC off-season for scouting lands smack dab in the middle of just about every other countries regular season.

Couple that with cheap contracts as a by-product of a salary cap, and a cheap dollar compared to the Euro or Pound... and you are scraping the bottom of the barrel wherever you go.

That being said you have the option of a) going with unproven youngsters that you hope the world forgot about or missed or b) sign old, proven players from Europe ;)

Broadview
07-15-2008, 11:28 AM
Maybe we should all ask our friends and neighbors if they're related to any awesome soccer players.

I'm only half joking here. Look at Ibby and Ricketts, I'm sure part of the draw of Toronto was having family nearby.

ExiledRed
07-15-2008, 11:42 AM
And the Argie RSL released

And don't forget Cancela and Nagamura

Jack
07-15-2008, 11:44 AM
Problem is, guys who are not quite good enough for the top European leagues can go to Mexico (way more money and prestige than MLS), J-League (again, mo' money) and a lot of the smaller European leagues.

So we would end up with the third tier. I mean, if we can get MLS to the point where it can compete financially and in terms of prestige with the Mexican league, we'll really be somewhere.

coisty1966
07-15-2008, 11:46 AM
Ah yes, Cordoba.

Not the least of which is that TFC off-season for scouting lands smack dab in the middle of just about every other countries regular season.



they should be scouting All year not just in the off season.....at any rate i just dont agree with following the status quo....there are major obstacles which you point out well but someone is always the first to change things and the rest are followers....

believe me, grew up on a heavy dose of Rangers so i do have a soft spot for the europeans too;)...

coisty1966
07-15-2008, 11:51 AM
Problem is, guys who are not quite good enough for the top European leagues can go to Mexico (way more money and prestige than MLS), J-League (again, mo' money) and a lot of the smaller European leagues.

So we would end up with the third tier. I mean, if we can get MLS to the point where it can compete financially and in terms of prestige with the Mexican league, we'll really be somewhere.

i'd like to see what wages are like in these countries (smaller european leagues) do places like denmark, poland, hungary, scotland (other than old firm) pay that much more then MLS? not sure....Mexico you are right for sure.....one day the cap will be gone and i think if they started the ball rolling now they would be in a better position than the other teams in MLS when it does.....

jrober38
07-15-2008, 11:51 AM
I completely agree that TFC needs to be looking in South America for talent to solve our scoring problem. There is an enormous pool of talent down there who might not get scooped up by big Euro clubs, but are definitely good enough to contribute in a big way in the MLS.

Players down there don't make much money and for the right price I'm sure that many of them would be willing to come to Toronto. We don't need the next great prospect from Brazil who is destined for European greatness, all we need is someone who is relatively young, has upside and can score goals.

I backpacked South America last summer catching a few games along the way, and I can honestly say that every stiker I saw would be a huge upgrade over the players we currently have up front. I caught a Boca Juniors vs Argentinos Juniors game and obviously Boca's Palacio and Palermo are very good, but even the players for Argentinos were much better than what we have. I also caught a Internacional vs Botafogo game in Rio and any of the attacking players from either of these teams would immediately make us a contender for the MLS Cup. Their speed and touch was unlike anything I've seen in MLS.

Considering how many players there are in South America, I'm sure we can find someone willing to come up here for a reasonable price. Personally I'd rather see TFC pursue someone down there instead of a player no one wants in Europe.

noochie
07-15-2008, 12:10 PM
Considering that the floor for a senior contract is 33K, there is no way that we can compete. The ceiling is ~350K and with 2.4mil on a salary cap you can only have a couple of those guys on a roster at any given point.

I think we need some patience in all of this. Wait and see what happens with the CBA in 2010 and from there, if there are significant changes in what teams can spend (and by significant, I mean a couple more million perhaps) then scouting will follow suit.

Personally, I still think the recipe for success in this league is to find the best kids coming out of US schools that have played this style of game from the beginning. Teams have shown that you can be successful in this league with very few internationals on the roster at all.

TicTacTabarnack
07-15-2008, 01:14 PM
Considering that the floor for a senior contract is 33K, there is no way that we can compete. The ceiling is ~350K and with 2.4mil on a salary cap you can only have a couple of those guys on a roster at any given point.

I think we need some patience in all of this. Wait and see what happens with the CBA in 2010 and from there, if there are significant changes in what teams can spend (and by significant, I mean a couple more million perhaps) then scouting will follow suit.

Personally, I still think the recipe for success in this league is to find the best kids coming out of US schools that have played this style of game from the beginning. Teams have shown that you can be successful in this league with very few internationals on the roster at all.

I agree ... $2.4M for an entire team is a drop in the bucket for teams over in Europe. We honestly can't compete right now so people thinking we'll sign a young up and coming player that hasn't been poached by the big teams in Europe is almost a pipe dream. As such, we have to rely on what noochie said about getting kids out of US schools like Adu and Edu to build an OK foundation for a team and do whatever you can with the remaining limited cap room and the DP slot.

Mo and Carver are quickly realizing that this what they have to do to make a championship team in the MLS and going after proven 30-somethings who are willing to relocate to Canada for "family reasons" like Sukur is as good as we'll get right now until the CBA is renegotiated.

This is the best way for us to compete right now and ~fingers crossed~ make the playoffs by the end of this year and if all goes to plan win the Championship. The standings are so tight right now... It's almost the only strategy available for us to be contenders in year 2. I'd rather have a winning team right now than going through the "maybe next year" blues that most people in Toronto expect from their sports teams.