What do you think of our future, in general

[Doucet3]

Well with new ownership coming in and it seems like we have an actual core of players, the new ownership said that wins will matter so what I'm getting at is do you think well get back some of the lost feeling of a fortress at home the European supportive feeling?

Guts me a little that we don't have that support, and I've notice on this board some of us bitch or are overly critical of some pretty ridiculous things, so can we stop finding things wrong an just enjoy our football a bit more (like really is the bmo field announcer THAT big of a deal..., does it matter if I hold my scarf for the anthem or not ...), the way I see it is if we are more united it would help the atmosphere, I knw when I'm in the north end it's effective, when I see RPB's section going all out I get going in the north end and that in turn gets ppl going in the north. Please don't want to kill me lol but come on guys lets tone down the bullshit and bickering

:canada::scarf::flare::drum:

[Soccerpro]

More bleak than promising

[OgtheDim]

3 years from now we will be better off. Mariner leaving will be a minor part of a much bigger change.

[TOBOR !]

What is it Lassie ? It's as though you're trying to tell me something.

[brad]

As long as MLSE owns us, the future is grim.

[sully]

It's hard to see a good future having been beaten down so much for so long.

I think the academy may be a success in the long term, but that will only benefit the team if the league gets better and the academy doesn't just become a means of developing then selling players.

Toronto I think needs the league to go in the direction of more autonomy for the clubs and less control from the league. I think that there's a lot of sincerity in trying to make the club great in the FO but that will be unfulfilled as long as the players are playing for /contracted to people sitting in an office in New York then thus club will not reach its potential or come even close.

As for the new arrangement re ownership, I hope they realise they have to start from zero again and bring down the prices significantly to reflect that.

[Abou Sky]

I try to be an optimist, but I really do beleive the future is bright. Even if the supporters aren't terribly... :-D

I beleive we will make it to CONCACAF finals.

I beleive Mariner is the man for the job in this league.

I beleive the academy is turning out some rock stars.

I beleive Bell & Rogers will redirect all of MLSE because MLSE can make less money while Bell & Rogers make more as a whole due to the vertical integration.

I beleive in our current roster.

I beleive in Terry D.

I beleive in a pit bull on the sidelines who looks like he is going to get us penalized one day for jumping into the game.

In short, I BELEIVE!

[Abou Sky]

Disclaimer to above, I wasn't into TFC until my son got me into TFC so I have near two seasons under my belt instead of 6 so I get that some of you need more sugar to get rid of the bitter flavor in your mouthes.

[Pookie]

For me, the future hinges on a new President with his own vision. He can then make the decision as to whether Mariner is the man to lead us towards it and can allocate resources towards fulfillment of that goal. If that President gets to report directly into the Board, then I am hopeful.

I don't see much reason for optimism under the current (lack of) leadership. Each new coach apparently sets their own vision and none seem to take a long term view. We had a plan, developed by the guy that gave the plan to US Soccer and now most MLS teams are following. We couldn't stand the pain so abandoned it and let one of the guys hired to implement it, change it to suit his own strengths. It's nuts.

Folks above have referenced the Academy as producing rock stars.

Every MLS team has one. Unless ours is the number 1 ranked Academy in North America, at best it will produce talent on par with what other Academies are producing. Which means it will promote parity unless it can be the best in the league.

Given that the talent pool and development model in the US is deeper than what we have in Canada through our current OSA pathways and geographic limitations, it will have a hard time producing the best. Many MLS Academies are set up to produce prospects that are more talented than we can.

Further, under MLS roster rules, the players that come out of our Academy have a very difficult time finding jobs in the USA because of MLS' Roster Rules (CDNs count as Internationals). Therefore, we are producing assets that have little to no trade market value.

Until such time as we become serious, through a vision, that roster management in Canada includes a robust scouting network to ensure that we uncover the best American players out there, utilize the Superdraft and stop trading first round picks (we have traded 3 in 5 years), and ensure that our International players are top of the heap... we will continue to muddle around the bottom of the table. I don't mean to piss on anyone's cornflakes here. Reality is what it is though.

All of the crap comes from the top. Only a change at the top will change our fortunes. If that happens, I'm optimistic.

[ecospice]

The team's core group of players is not bad and pretty young. There is loads of upside and for the first time in 6 years I want to cheer for every player in the starting 11. So that's good for the future. What's bad is the FO does not appear set to change.

[Dkolish3]

I try to be an optimist, but I really do beleive the future is bright. Even if the supporters aren't terribly... :-D

I beleive we will make it to CONCACAF finals.

I beleive Mariner is the man for the job in this league.

I beleive the academy is turning out some rock stars.

I beleive Bell & Rogers will redirect all of MLSE because MLSE can make less money while Bell & Rogers make more as a whole due to the vertical integration.

I beleive in our current roster.

I beleive in Terry D.

I beleive in a pit bull on the sidelines who looks like he is going to get us penalized one day for jumping into the game.

In short, I BELEIVE!


http://youtu.be/9N2tLfGUPwU

Drink that Kool-aid

[[NBF]]

For me, the future hinges on a new President with his own vision. He can then make the decision as to whether Mariner is the man to lead us towards it and can allocate resources towards fulfillment of that goal. If that President gets to report directly into the Board, then I am hopeful.

I don't see much reason for optimism under the current (lack of) leadership. Each new coach apparently sets their own vision and none seem to take a long term view. We had a plan, developed by the guy that gave the plan to US Soccer and now most MLS teams are following. We couldn't stand the pain so abandoned it and let one of the guys hired to implement it, change it to suit his own strengths. It's nuts.

Folks above have referenced the Academy as producing rock stars.

Every MLS team has one. Unless ours is the number 1 ranked Academy in North America, at best it will produce talent on par with what other Academies are producing. Which means it will promote parity unless it can be the best in the league.

Given that the talent pool and development model in the US is deeper than what we have in Canada through our current OSA pathways and geographic limitations, it will have a hard time producing the best. Many MLS Academies are set up to produce prospects that are more talented than we can.

Further, under MLS roster rules, the players that come out of our Academy have a very difficult time finding jobs in the USA because of MLS' Roster Rules (CDNs count as Internationals). Therefore, we are producing assets that have little to no trade market value.

Until such time as we become serious, through a vision, that roster management in Canada includes a robust scouting network to ensure that we uncover the best American players out there, utilize the Superdraft and stop trading first round picks (we have traded 3 in 5 years), and ensure that our International players are top of the heap... we will continue to muddle around the bottom of the table. I don't mean to piss on anyone's cornflakes here. Reality is what it is though.

All of the crap comes from the top. Only a change at the top will change our fortunes. If that happens, I'm optimistic.

Solid points.

As far as the TFC Academy goes, some of these young players might find it more convinient for them to attend NCAA Universities for four years than to meddle around in MLS Reserves for a year or two. They might be better off going to school in the states (get 4/5 years needed to get citizenship) and possibly upping their value in a draft.

Trading away the top Superdraft picks have hurt this team. Even if the players are on the bench on other MLS teams right now, it would be hard to imagine TFC having that luxury to sit decent young players. The Canadian teams need the Superdraft more than the American teams. As far as the International player slots, this team needs to spend their money wisely on offensive players rather than on a right back. Goal scorers can be traded more easily than the rest.

[Phil]

I don't mind Mariner. I think he is showing basically what we have all wanted for some time now - a manager that knows the leauge, seems to put focus on the opposition and generating a gameplan that is effective and uses our strengths. Its not pretty football but it is better than the defensive bullcrap and it generates better results than we have seen in a while.

As for the future, I have to be optimistic that the ownership change may yeild some postivie results but time will tell. I am still happy to go to BMO and support the team and see everyone in the stands.

Bottom line is I am trying really hard to not let the negativity affect my expereince and support for the team. I acknowlege it and deal with it but I still have a high value and belief in this team and in this group of supporters.

[Oldtimer]

Too soon to tell. Mariner is doing somewhat better than Winter, but not good enough to make the playoffs, let alone make TFC a contender. Only a change brought on by Bell/Rogers can bring hope of better days ahead. Given the priority they've given to ML$E, I don't think that's at all impossible.

[[NBF]]

I don't mind Mariner. I think he is showing basically what we have all wanted for some time now - a manager that knows the leauge, seems to put focus on the opposition and generating a gameplan that is effective and uses our strengths. Its not pretty football but it is better than the defensive bullcrap and it generates better results than we have seen in a while.

As for the future, I have to be optimistic that the ownership change may yeild some postivie results but time will tell. I am still happy to go to BMO and support the team and see everyone in the stands.

Bottom line is I am trying really hard to not let the negativity affect my expereince and support for the team. I acknowlege it and deal with it but I still have a high value and belief in this team and in this group of supporters.

Cough....Cough .......Preki 2.0

[Mr. Bigby]

I believe that children are our future.
Treat them well and let them lead the way.
I believe...

Oh wait...sorry...wrong song...wait, I've got it here somewhere.....

[Greatest Ripoff]

Well with new ownership coming in and it seems like we have an actual core of players

I don't think we have a core at all. Other than Silva, Morgan and Kocic, who do you see being on this team and preforming well 3 years from now? Are there any other standout players for Toronto that offer value to this team in a salary capped league? Will O'Dea offer the team stability at the back end for the right price? Because Eckersley is costing way too much for what he brings to the team.

There are a bunch american players in their mid 20s who careers have stalled that are getting unlimited chances with this team (Amarikwa, Emory, Hall, and Wiedeman) while some of the academy graduates have not been given a chance at all (stinson, cordon and makubuya). If the Academy is the future why not give these players a run out in a lost season to see what they can offer or if they need to be let go?

[Brooker]

On the bright side.... our bleak future as a team did get rid of a lot of part timers, glory hunters and drunken college kids...

That's a reason to celebrate, isn't it?

[Canary10]

I don't mind Mariner. I think he is showing basically what we have all wanted for some time now - a manager that knows the leauge, seems to put focus on the opposition and generating a gameplan that is effective and uses our strengths. Its not pretty football but it is better than the defensive bullcrap and it generates better results than we have seen in a while.

As for the future, I have to be optimistic that the ownership change may yeild some postivie results but time will tell. I am still happy to go to BMO and support the team and see everyone in the stands.

Bottom line is I am trying really hard to not let the negativity affect my expereince and support for the team. I acknowlege it and deal with it but I still have a high value and belief in this team and in this group of supporters.

Are you kidding me? He does the exact opposite of this. His gameplan tweaks are whether to run a flat 4-4-2 or a really flat 4-4-2. He uses players out of position all the time (Silva in particular, who is great in the middle, invisible on the wing). He runs the most basic, text book 4-4-2 with no tactical adjustment.

As for the thread question, we recently made the exact same mistake we've made almost on a yearly basis since we came in the league; we abandoned a playing style before it could ever really get up and running, and started rebuilding a team to match the new style. I can't see us progressing as long as we stay in this cycle of constant change.

[Fort York Redcoat]

I believe in starting a post with "I believe".

I believe in what I can see for the rest of the year.

I believe that Mariner helped the teams results.

I believe the season will look better than it would have without the change in Coach.

I believe that the only constant is change and we all will disagree on how much patience we should have, how much time to give.

I believe the key in the future is knowing we can disagree on points and still agree on the team we support.

Cynic, optimist, supporter.

Enjoy your week off everyone then see you in the stands on Wed.

[TFC07]

I don't think we have a core at all. Other than Silva, Morgan and Kocic, who do you see being on this team and preforming well 3 years from now? Are there any other standout players for Toronto that offer value to this team in a salary capped league? Will O'Dea offer the team stability at the back end for the right price? Because Eckersley is costing way too much for what he brings to the team.

There are a bunch american players in their mid 20s who careers have stalled that are getting unlimited chances with this team (Amarikwa, Emory, Hall, and Wiedeman) while some of the academy graduates have not been given a chance at all (stinson, cordon and makubuya). If the Academy is the future why not give these players a run out in a lost season to see what they can offer or if they need to be let go?

Agreed with this post.

Future doesn't look good right now outside of TFC academy; TFC needs to establish a FO that isn't divided by getting rid of current FO (Mariner and Co) and get a new president (hopefully someone with experience). When that happens, then I would say future will look bright. Players on this team are okay, there some good players with upside while some of other players should have no business playing soccer at all. But I think key factor here is the FO who have been problem since day one. 6 years of their BS (politics) and greed has killed TFC brand in this city. Hopefully new owners see that, make some serious changes (example: reduce ticket prices) win soccer fans back.

[__wowza]

slices are overpriced for what you're getting, they're all previously frozen stuff anyways and not baked on site. the ambiance is pretty laid back, it's a good place to bring people who're new to the city or if you're on a first date and they've never been there or something..

http://www.blogto.com/upload/2009/01/20090121-futures-2.jpg


oh, i'm sorry, were we done making future jokes? g:D

[T-boy]

Future is fine for TFC. Every soccer club has peaks and troughs. TFC will get success eventually, probably within the next 2 or 3 seasons. It would only take 1 season of success (reaching the play offs, for example) for TFC to be a huge club and a very marketable assett for MLSE once again. The GTA has a massive reachable audience, and even if the original hardcore supporters all vanished, there would be enough people to replace them if TFC found success. I've "been there done that" with my English team - had years where you think it will never change - but it does. That's football for you!

The academy will continue to produce players - even if they aren't playing 4-3-3 or whatever fancy football people like them to, so the future is good in those regards. The future is also good for Canadian football in general with all the Canadian MLS clubs producting academy players. Toronto will benefit from all of this. The stronger Canadian soccer builds at youth level, the more TFC will benefit over the next few years. The best players will still go to Europe - but not even player can due to visa rules - so TFC, Whitecaps, and Montreal will all benefit from improvements in their academies and in youth football in Canada overall.

[Canary10]

slices are overpriced for what you're getting, they're all previously frozen stuff anyways and not baked on site. the ambiance is pretty laid back, it's a good place to bring people who're new to the city or if you're on a first date and they've never been there or something..

http://www.blogto.com/upload/2009/01/20090121-futures-2.jpg


oh, i'm sorry, were we done making future jokes? g:D

Lol. Nice!

[Phil]

Are you kidding me? He does the exact opposite of this. His gameplan tweaks are whether to run a flat 4-4-2 or a really flat 4-4-2. He uses players out of position all the time (Silva in particular, who is great in the middle, invisible on the wing). He runs the most basic, text book 4-4-2 with no tactical adjustment.

As for the thread question, we recently made the exact same mistake we've made almost on a yearly basis since we came in the league; we abandoned a playing style before it could ever really get up and running, and started rebuilding a team to match the new style. I can't see us progressing as long as we stay in this cycle of constant change.

I am not saying its perfect, but when we were 0-9 we were all scrambling and questioning things. The big game for me was home to Chicago when their forwards slammed in and scored so early. Alarm bells went off in my head that it *looks* like Winter is not doing any scouting or has any idea of the indivdual and team dangers each side in the MLS brings.

Mariner has demonstrated a knowlege of the league and opposition - that has been something that pre-dates the Preki era - it was something most in this group and outside of it placed a high value on.

Mistakes continue to happen but that is sports and football in particular. We have to give Mariner some rope (maybe to hang himself) but at this point I think he has achived enough in the short term to warrent so patience from me at least.

I certainly think there is some value in being critical of the team, and being a supporter makes it all that more important. However I do think the constant negativity has long term damage on supporters and I am just trying to point out some of the silver linings I see.

[Canary10]

I certainly think there is some value in being critical of the team, and being a supporter makes it all that more important. However I do think the constant negativity has long term damage on supporters and I am just trying to point out some of the silver linings I see.

That's totally fair, and you're right. The constant negativity is a drain on the enthusiasm for the team.

[Redcoe15]

You have a very difficult job as Fearless Leader, Phil. I commend you for all the hard work you do for this group while maintaining a positive attitude.

[Phil]

You have a very difficult job as Fearless Leader, Phil. I commend you for all the hard work you do for this group while maintaining a positive attitude.

Hey when you are as low as we have been for 6 years there is nowhere to go but up!

Right!

Right?!

Ummmmm, okay its Friday :D

Once I lose that positivity something will be broken in my soul.

[Redcoe15]

Hey when you are as low as we have been for 6 years there is nowhere to go but up!

Right!

Right?!

Right! g:D

[Gazza]

I am optimistic that one day in the near future, Terry Dunfield will be wearing a TFC "Greatness Has Been Found" t-shirt.

[Oldtimer]

I am optimistic that one day in the near future, Terry Dunfield will be wearing a TFC "Greatness Has Been Found" t-shirt.

Maybe he'll be on the wall of honour!!!!! :D

[Jack]

I believe...that my future as a season seat holder is on the line.

[Derko]

On the bright side.... our bleak future as a team did get rid of a lot of part timers, glory hunters and drunken college kids...

That's a reason to celebrate, isn't it?

Yes, at least supporters who care are starting to be the majority

[Jack]

Yeah. It's great that we were shit and now our stadium is half-empty every game.

[Brooker]

Yeah. It's great that we were shit and now our stadium is half-empty every game.

That's not really fair. We didn't say that at all.

[Huyton]

Yeah. It's great that we were shit and now our stadium is half-empty every game.

I like it! Without a shit team, I wouldn't have season tickets.

So many people have promised not to renew if Mariner is in charge that I may actually be able to make it in to the South Stands at the next Relocation Event!!

[narduch]

Unless the front office structure is changed (purge Anselmi, Cochrane, Beirne and Mariner) I will continue to believe that the future of this club is bleak.

I look at the players on TFC, and I look at what other MLS teams have, and I get this depressed feeling that its going to take a while to fix this mess. And I don't believe that Mariner is the man to fix it, considering that he helped create it. The recent transfer window hasn't changed my mind on that. If we go into 2013 with Mariner in charge, I'm expecting more of the same.

I will always be a fan and follow this team, but I'm saddened to see what the idiots who run this team have done considering all that hope we had in 2007.


Well with new ownership coming in and it seems like we have an actual core of players, the new ownership said that wins will matter so what I'm getting at is do you think well get back some of the lost feeling of a fortress at home the European supportive feeling?


The new owners never said that. That was the theory from a journalist in a poorly written news article recently.

If anything we should expect more of the same from the new ownership structure. Just replace the teachers with Bell/Rogers.

[Jack]

Yes, at least supporters who care are starting to be the majority
The supporters who care are starting to be the majority not because their ranks are growing, but because attendance is going down. That is not a good thing.



That's not really fair. We didn't say that at all.
From a certain point of view, you did. The attitude, which has been around for a long time, that these other attendees to the games are somehow inferior, or a detriment to atmosphere and support, is a dangerous one. The bottom line is, hardcore supporters will always be a vocal minority, which requires us to lead and channel the energy of those who you disparaged in your post.

To this day, one of the most successful stadium-wide chants was "This is Our House". Yet that chant was shit on extensively as a hockey, basketball, fratboy chant. The building blocks were there, but they ended up being knocked down by the attitude of looking down our noses at these people instead of helping and channelling their energy. This is Our House was just a first step. Same with TFC Clap Clap Clap. Same with many other "lame" chants.

15,000 people chanting "This is Our House" is much more impressive for me than 1,000 singing the Bounce. In terms of atmosphere, intimidation and pumping things up. Not that the Bounce is bad, it's awesome, but you won't get the rest of the stadium to evolve to that level without the simple chants first. Things take time to catch on and we supporters have been guilty of deeming a chant "stale" or "overused" when it starts to be chanted by these "party animal fratboys" and "bandwagoneers". Our own impatience with bringing the rest of the stadium on board has ultimately been a factor in the current situation in terms of atmosphere, compounded immensely by the pile of shit that the team continues to foist off on us.

Start with simple, build and be patient. Gave over game, season over season, more people will learn the songs and chants and be more likely to join in. But when it's something they can't begin to fathom, something totally different from what they're used to doing at a sporting event, then it needs to be introduced slowly. We didn't do that.

So I find your statement particularly troublesome because, in the end, that vision of a whole stadium (or even half) getting on board and bringing the atmosphere, is never going to be realized when people are satisfied with losing willing, if misguided, participants in the support of the team.

[trane]

I like it! Without a shit team, I wouldn't have season tickets.

So many people have promised not to renew if Mariner is in charge that I may actually be able to make it in to the South Stands at the next Relocation Event!!

That is realy great for you. The fact that for 7 years, the team that has represented this city has been pretty much an embarasment is no biggie as long as you get to feel like a real supporter. The fact that countless of passionate supporters have been driven out, because of the shit on the field and between supporters, that is no biggie, as long as the few stay MLSE for live. That you feel like talking down to Jack one of the key people responsible for the RPB, and the only success that this club has had ( the success in the stands) tells it all, the fact that countless of key original supporters (roogsy being one of the last) having been marginalized, is all good as long as a bunch of self proclaimed true supporters stay.

[trane]

The supporters who care are starting to be the majority not because their ranks are growing, but because attendance is going down. That is not a good thing.



From a certain point of view, you did. The attitude, which has been around for a long time, that these other attendees to the games are somehow inferior, or a detriment to atmosphere and support, is a dangerous one. The bottom line is, hardcore supporters will always be a vocal minority, which requires us to lead and channel the energy of those who you disparaged in your post.

To this day, one of the most successful stadium-wide chants was "This is Our House". Yet that chant was shit on extensively as a hockey, basketball, fratboy chant. The building blocks were there, but they ended up being knocked down by the attitude of looking down our noses at these people instead of helping and channelling their energy. This is Our House was just a first step. Same with TFC Clap Clap Clap. Same with many other "lame" chants.

15,000 people chanting "This is Our House" is much more impressive for me than 1,000 singing the Bounce. In terms of atmosphere, intimidation and pumping things up. Not that the Bounce is bad, it's awesome, but you won't get the rest of the stadium to evolve to that level without the simple chants first. Things take time to catch on and we supporters have been guilty of deeming a chant "stale" or "overused" when it starts to be chanted by these "party animal fratboys" and "bandwagoneers". Our own impatience with bringing the rest of the stadium on board has ultimately been a factor in the current situation in terms of atmosphere, compounded immensely by the pile of shit that the team continues to foist off on us.

Start with simple, build and be patient. Gave over game, season over season, more people will learn the songs and chants and be more likely to join in. But when it's something they can't begin to fathom, something totally different from what they're used to doing at a sporting event, then it needs to be introduced slowly. We didn't do that.

So I find your statement particularly troublesome because, in the end, that vision of a whole stadium (or even half) getting on board and bringing the atmosphere, is never going to be realized when people are satisfied with losing willing, if misguided, participants in the support of the team.

100% agreed. The over reality is that support, as in standing and chating has been discourged through out most of the stadium. I almost got kicked out for standing on two occasions, at least.

[trane]

I have to say that this discussion, while I think one that should be had, is one that is not resolved, will kill not only the chore supporters, but the club, as all it ever had is supporters.

Clearly most that think that the club should be held to task for failing to deliver over and over again, have left or have gone to the sidelines, if this continues, even the supporters section will be half empty.

[Gazza]

Maybe he'll be on the wall of honour!!!!! :D

Oh...now you're just teasing. Dunfield before De Rosario? Maybe they'll have a joint ceremony.

[gate7]

At this pace I think our future will consist of more empty seats.......which speaks for itself.

[tiberius]

I will watch almost all future games, I will attend quite a few games each year (I'm outside GTA), I will continue to think highly of, and support the players on the field. I believe the only hope for salvation is a completely new FO structure, from the top down (and way, way lower ticket prices). I believe the likelihood of this is small (say 20%). Therefore I believe we are headed into a desolate, nuclear winter where only the strong will survive. 50/50 that 5 years down the road we go the way of Toronto Blizzard. Call me a Roogsie if you must, but these are the COLD HARD FACTS IMHO.

[tfcocd]

Folks above have referenced the Academy as producing rock stars.

Every MLS team has one. Unless ours is the number 1 ranked Academy in North America, at best it will produce talent on par with what other Academies are producing. Which means it will promote parity unless it can be the best in the league.

Given that the talent pool and development model in the US is deeper than what we have in Canada through our current OSA pathways and geographic limitations, it will have a hard time producing the best. Many MLS Academies are set up to produce prospects that are more talented than we can.

Further, under MLS roster rules, the players that come out of our Academy have a very difficult time finding jobs in the USA because of MLS' Roster Rules (CDNs count as Internationals). Therefore, we are producing assets that have little to no trade market value.

Until such time as we become serious, through a vision, that roster management in Canada includes a robust scouting network to ensure that we uncover the best American players out there, utilize the Superdraft and stop trading first round picks (we have traded 3 in 5 years), and ensure that our International players are top of the heap... we will continue to muddle around the bottom of the table. I don't mean to piss on anyone's cornflakes here. Reality is what it is though.


Academy rankings would be very interesting and I wonder what the criteria would be? I think it would be valuation of graduating players. I am not sure what the oldest academy is in MLS but it would be interesting to see a list of graduates and there valuation. For TFC we have a handful to measure success and they must have a transfer value so we can sum it up for TFC. I disagree with an earlier post that it would be bad if the academy sells its best players. To me that is a good sign. If the academy is developing players of a quality that can play in a top league than the training is working and the second tier players should add good depth to the first team and ideally a few starters. That kind of success would more breed success.

For what it is worth on 'transfer market' site:
Morgan is 175,000 euros, Henry at 125,000 euros according to the site.... (Stinson 175,000 !?!)

http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/doneil-henry/profil/spieler_157907.html

[Huyton]

That is realy great for you. The fact that for 7 years, the team that has represented this city has been pretty much an embarasment is no biggie as long as you get to feel like a real supporter. The fact that countless of passionate supporters have been driven out, because of the shit on the field and between supporters, that is no biggie, as long as the few stay MLSE for live. That you feel like talking down to Jack one of the key people responsible for the RPB, and the only success that this club has had ( the success in the stands) tells it all, the fact that countless of key original supporters (roogsy being one of the last) having been marginalized, is all good as long as a bunch of self proclaimed true supporters stay.

Hi, Trane...

Firstly, I was astonished at what I perceived to be Jacks tone in his statment. He sounded really down and depressed...not the more upbeat guy that I have come to respect. What I said was an attempt at trying to point out a silver lining.

Secondly, I'm not that happy with the on-field performance either, but I've been on a waiting list for seasons tickets since before the first game at BMO Field. I had massively under-rated the demand for football in Toronto. Having been to all sorts of games over the years, from Toronto Metros-Croatia, to the Blizzard and the Lynx, with the occasional CMNT game thrown in for good measure, I blew it big time.

So, I went through the torture of the ransom packs, and partial packs. I attended all the Nutralite and CCL games, getting in to the South Stand as often as I could. With the waiting list as long as it was reputed to be, and working for considerably less than before the economic collapse, all I could afford would be seats in a Supporters Section, and there was little hope of that unless the team was shit.

So, for me, finally being able to afford seasons tickets is the silver lining to the dark cloud that is the team being shit.

Was I talking down to Jack? I don't think so, and it certainly wasn't my intent. If it came across that way, then I hope that you, and he, will accept my apologies for my obviously poor communication.

With respect,

Huyton.

[Jack]

I freely admit to being a bit down, Huyton. I had a bit of an extended break, then was at the game last Saturday and was shocked at the apathy. I admit, I am not around as much as I used to be, given time demands from a growing family and increasing responsibility at work, but I have seen a decline in the support of TFC that does concern me profoundly, something I am not going to hide. I still believe in this group, this team and the future of the sport in the city, but I think we all need to make something happen to keep the dream alive. Phil is doing a great job of working toward this and I think he has a great vision in place. Hopefully, TFC's management can be on board enough to make it happen. We've seen many MLS teams go through a trough and come out stronger and I believe we need to do the same. It's funny, when Connie and I walked into Barra Brava's tailgate in the first year, as the first ever opposing supporters to do so, we were told to "wait and see". We naively answered that we were going to be fine and continue to have the energy and support we had at that time. Little did we know that we would be where we are in year 6. There is still ample opportunity to rebuild the rapport that made supporters feel like part of the club, so I hope that the new initiatives our execs are taking on will make that happen. The BB guys look like prophets right now.

And in response to Trane's comments, I don't think he was talking down, I think he was trying to inject some levity into the situation, which is all good in my books. I think we often take ourselves too seriously and, when the chips are down, supporters need to keep our sense of humour and humility above all else.

[Brooker]

The supporters who care are starting to be the majority not because their ranks are growing, but because attendance is going down. That is not a good thing.



From a certain point of view, you did. The attitude, which has been around for a long time, that these other attendees to the games are somehow inferior, or a detriment to atmosphere and support, is a dangerous one. The bottom line is, hardcore supporters will always be a vocal minority, which requires us to lead and channel the energy of those who you disparaged in your post.

To this day, one of the most successful stadium-wide chants was "This is Our House". Yet that chant was shit on extensively as a hockey, basketball, fratboy chant. The building blocks were there, but they ended up being knocked down by the attitude of looking down our noses at these people instead of helping and channelling their energy. This is Our House was just a first step. Same with TFC Clap Clap Clap. Same with many other "lame" chants.

15,000 people chanting "This is Our House" is much more impressive for me than 1,000 singing the Bounce. In terms of atmosphere, intimidation and pumping things up. Not that the Bounce is bad, it's awesome, but you won't get the rest of the stadium to evolve to that level without the simple chants first. Things take time to catch on and we supporters have been guilty of deeming a chant "stale" or "overused" when it starts to be chanted by these "party animal fratboys" and "bandwagoneers". Our own impatience with bringing the rest of the stadium on board has ultimately been a factor in the current situation in terms of atmosphere, compounded immensely by the pile of shit that the team continues to foist off on us.

Start with simple, build and be patient. Gave over game, season over season, more people will learn the songs and chants and be more likely to join in. But when it's something they can't begin to fathom, something totally different from what they're used to doing at a sporting event, then it needs to be introduced slowly. We didn't do that.

So I find your statement particularly troublesome because, in the end, that vision of a whole stadium (or even half) getting on board and bringing the atmosphere, is never going to be realized when people are satisfied with losing willing, if misguided, participants in the support of the team.

I think you misunderstood what I was saying... or more likely I didn't say it properly.

I wasn't looking down on the average fan. I was bashing the folks who spend more time on their cellphone or drinking their face off while barely paying attention to the game.

[Super]

I have completely lost faith in TFC's ability to turn things around. I just don't see it happening any time soon. I'll likely go ahead and renew for next year, but I see no reason why I should be optimistic going into our 7th season. Mariner was able to win a few games for us, and certainly is better than Winter, but lack of possession will kill us in the end. I think we'll continue to be shit until we actually hire a guy with head-coaching experience who doesn't have warning signs all over him (like Preki). Until that time we'll continue to make horrible mistakes, over and over again.

No wonder BMO is empty. Who wants to watch shit football at a shit stadium? Let's be honest here. TFC is not a good team. We've never been good. We've either been bad or shit. Now we're somewhere in between. Horrible to watch, though, so that'll never bring people to the game. I'll continue to go, but I think next year is the last chance for TFC to retain me as a customer. Stadium is bad, team is bad and atmosphere is bad. Still we're paying top dollar compared to other MLS teams. I feel that I have to stop this madness at one point. Certainly my support never helped this team - so won't matter if I'm there or not.

[tfc2008]

Is there a future?....

[asterix606]

I have also lost faith in TFC! Had our club been owned by a rich businessman who loves football, things would have been different.

TFC is unfortunately married to MLSE and there is no divorce coming up.

Following this brutal team for the past 6 long years has taken a toll on all of us! It's not fun anymore!

If you want a future, try fixing these problems below, feel free to add more!!!!

- Highest priced tickets in league.
- Brutal team for the past 6 seasons.
- Presently in last place in MLS with 19 points.
- No playoffs in all their history.
- Boring football to watch.

- No stable and quality coaching staff.
- Beat records this year for worst team in MLS history.
- Average players stay at TFC is way too short.

- STH get no freebies, just a cheap scarf.
- Hard to resale ST on market.
- MLSE taking 35% of your resale tickets on TFC website.
- Sections are now full of kids and soccer moms, real fans are gone.
- Game day atmosphere not as intense as it used to be.

- Bad stadium design.
- Expensive food and beer.
- Not treated like adults with beer cutoff.
- Insane bathroom lineups

- Idiotic FO
- Bad scouting network
- Trading away SuperDraft picks

[Alixir]

I have also lost faith in TFC! Had our club been owned by a rich businessman who loves football, things would have been different.

TFC is unfortunately married to MLSE and there is no divorce coming up.

Following this brutal team for the past 6 long years has taken a toll on all of us! It's not fun anymore!

If you want a future, try fixing these problems below, feel free to add more!!!!

- Highest priced tickets in league.
- Brutal team for the past 6 seasons.
- Presently in last place in MLS with 19 points.
- No playoffs in all their history.
- Boring football to watch.

- No stable and quality coaching staff.
- Beat records this year for worst team in MLS history.
- Average players stay at TFC is way too short.

- STH get no freebies, just a cheap scarf.
- Hard to resale ST on market.
- MLSE taking 35% of your resale tickets on TFC website.
- Sections are now full of kids and soccer moms, real fans are gone.
- Game day atmosphere not as intense as it used to be.

- Bad stadium design.
- Expensive food and beer.
- Not treated like adults with beer cutoff.
- Insane bathroom lineups

- Idiotic FO
- Bad scouting network
- Trading away SuperDraft picks

***TOM ANSELMI***
I added the biggest part of the problem.

[jazzy]

I like it! Without a shit team, I wouldn't have season tickets.

So many people have promised not to renew if Mariner is in charge that I may actually be able to make it in to the South Stands at the next Relocation Event!!

there's ' a glass full ' attitude .....refreshing.....as much as I am disheartened by my feelings of total ineffectiveness and unimportance to present FO,..and the need of such a

big ass overhaul to improve our game 'atmosphere' that realistically I'm probably dreaming.......but good on ya....true enough the ONLY reason now we're still there is the

amazing friends and fans we've met!......but it this duality can't go on forever...love the game . love my home team players..(ya some not so much, but they are 'my'

team)..love my friends .....is this just life as a Toronto sports fan ??..lol....as many have said when a profiteering bunch of A-holes....kill your HOPE,..then whats left....??..but

to those positive soccer lovers keep the faith!

[Mark in Ottawa]

I think we often take ourselves too seriously and, when the chips are down, supporters need to keep our sense of humour and humility above all else.
Sounds like a cue for the 75 Mile Bastards g:D

[burlington Red]

I have completely lost faith in TFC's ability to turn things around. I just don't see it happening any time soon. I'll likely go ahead and renew for next year, but I see no reason why I should be optimistic going into our 7th season. Mariner was able to win a few games for us, and certainly is better than Winter, but lack of possession will kill us in the end. I think we'll continue to be shit until we actually hire a guy with head-coaching experience who doesn't have warning signs all over him (like Preki). Until that time we'll continue to make horrible mistakes, over and over again.

No wonder BMO is empty. Who wants to watch shit football at a shit stadium? Let's be honest here. TFC is not a good team. We've never been good. We've either been bad or shit. Now we're somewhere in between. Horrible to watch, though, so that'll never bring people to the game. I'll continue to go, but I think next year is the last chance for TFC to retain me as a customer. Stadium is bad, team is bad and atmosphere is bad. Still we're paying top dollar compared to other MLS teams. I feel that I have to stop this madness at one point. Certainly my support never helped this team - so won't matter if I'm there or not.

I think we'll continue to be shit until we actually hire a guy with head-coaching experience- be careful what you wish for Mo Jonston had head coaching experience

Who wants to watch shit football at a shit stadium- I honestly haven't heard in 6 yrs of attending games anyone complain about the stadium, am I out of touch or is this an actual genuine compliant fans have. I have issues in that the supporters section is in the wrong place, I have issues with the time of certain games and times of trains back to the burbs, but I don't have an issue with the actual stadium, I actually like it.

[Suds]

I think we'll continue to be shit until we actually hire a guy with head-coaching experience- be careful what you wish for Mo Jonston had head coaching experience

Who wants to watch shit football at a shit stadium- I honestly haven't heard in 6 yrs of attending games anyone complain about the stadium, am I out of touch or is this an actual genuine compliant fans have. I have issues in that the supporters section is in the wrong place, I have issues with the time of certain games and times of trains back to the burbs, but I don't have an issue with the actual stadium, I actually like it.

I think when your team has been crap as long as ours has and you feel TFC has abused their relationship with the fans all the little things that can bother people become that much more heightened. I'm in agreement with your post about BMO. Other than on message boards, I do not hear anyone actually complaining about the stadium at the games. They have tried to address a number of things like the long washroom line-ups with getting access to the food building.

[Pookie]

I think when your team has been crap as long as ours has and you feel TFC has abused their relationship with the fans all the little things that can bother people become that much more heightened. I'm in agreement with your post about BMO. Other than on message boards, I do not hear anyone actually complaining about the stadium at the games. They have tried to address a number of things like the long washroom line-ups with getting access to the food building.

I think that the stadium is starting to see its share of complaints.. that said it is what it is. A barebones stadium that isn't protected from the elements but has a terrific grass surface.

I do have an issue with BMO and its location given the endless number of events in the area that take away from parking and add to the congestion. TTC simply doesn't have convenient options for folks north of the City. If a Casino ever goes into the area, I'd hate to see how that would impact an already difficult to access location.

[trane]

I freely admit to being a bit down, Huyton. I had a bit of an extended break, then was at the game last Saturday and was shocked at the apathy. I admit, I am not around as much as I used to be, given time demands from a growing family and increasing responsibility at work, but I have seen a decline in the support of TFC that does concern me profoundly, something I am not going to hide. I still believe in this group, this team and the future of the sport in the city, but I think we all need to make something happen to keep the dream alive. Phil is doing a great job of working toward this and I think he has a great vision in place. Hopefully, TFC's management can be on board enough to make it happen. We've seen many MLS teams go through a trough and come out stronger and I believe we need to do the same. It's funny, when Connie and I walked into Barra Brava's tailgate in the first year, as the first ever opposing supporters to do so, we were told to "wait and see". We naively answered that we were going to be fine and continue to have the energy and support we had at that time. Little did we know that we would be where we are in year 6. There is still ample opportunity to rebuild the rapport that made supporters feel like part of the club, so I hope that the new initiatives our execs are taking on will make that happen. The BB guys look like prophets right now.

And in response to Trane's comments, I don't think he was talking down, I think he was trying to inject some levity into the situation, which is all good in my books. I think we often take ourselves too seriously and, when the chips are down, supporters need to keep our sense of humour and humility above all else.


I am overlly sensitve, to the topic, as I said this was all a dream come true, that has turned into something of a nightmare, I am a glass half full dude in general, but I am also a realist, and all too often my attempts at a positive outlook, have been met by the reality of the stupidity of the FO. I would hate to see more passionate supporters leave or be marginalized, as I do not think it is a positive at all.

[trane]

Someone said that it is hard to still believe that this management/ownership group will be able to turn it around, and while I keep hope alive, I have to say that logic, and 6 years, tells me the same. I will say that I thuoght that the 4-3-3 direction and visiion, seemed to be the step in the right direction, [I am not for or against a 4-3-3-but I believe that there is a need for a indentity/system for a club on the pitch to build around] but the execution was poor. Sure hiring Winter, seemed like a inteligent gamble, no first team coaching experience, but a great pedegree, but how long it took them to understand that he was not going to deliver, and that they then replaced not only him but the entire concept is incredible. ( well in the case of MLSE realy credible and expected, but otherwise incredible). Now Mariner has delivered an improvemnt, and I think that the team on the pitch is more tallented, but still I am not blown away.

HOWEVER,

On the otherhand while I have boycotted the stadium for most of the year, I have to say that I realy miss it, greatly, and I hope that I am given a reason, however small that I pick up seasons again. [I HOPE THAT THE POINT HAS BEEN MADE TO MLSE THIS YEAR]

[ryan]

I don't foresee the future being positive any time soon for this club. Too many problems, no real solutions. No need to rehash the list of issues already gone over.


This song popped up on my mp3 player when I was at the gym this morning and made me think of this situation

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Mn1WN5yeag

From the east coast to the west coast
MLSE's gotta go
True sounds of a revolution
MLSE's gotta go
In our hearts in our souls
MLSE's gotta go
United we stand, divided we fall
MLSE's gotta go

Or you could sub in Anselmi for MLSE. /shrug.

[Abou Sky]

LOVE the Murphys, love the song.

Oh... and I still believe, if that makes me a kool-aid drinker, so be it.

[trane]

^ Dude, we would all love to believe, but honestly ( and I do not mean this as an attack) 6 years in, what reason is there to believe that the MLSE will get it right?


At some point optimism has to be tempered by realism.

[trane]

1) Keep shape 2) Pass the ball efficienlty 3) Defend.


Those are the three things that I believe are the first building blocks to a good side, and they are related to one another. I have to say that we have been keeping shape better, for the most part, in the past 1-1 1/2. (althought individual players still get caught our of posission to often). The passing efficiency has also been better durring this period, but posession, which is offcourse directly realted has been down. DEFENDING, has always, and continues to be our weakness, we defend for streches, but almost never play 90 minutes of solid defensive football. I do think we are improving but the pace has been beyong snail like. We are now were I would have hoped to be no later then year two.

[Super]

I think we'll continue to be shit until we actually hire a guy with head-coaching experience- be careful what you wish for Mo Jonston had head coaching experience

Who wants to watch shit football at a shit stadium- I honestly haven't heard in 6 yrs of attending games anyone complain about the stadium, am I out of touch or is this an actual genuine compliant fans have. I have issues in that the supporters section is in the wrong place, I have issues with the time of certain games and times of trains back to the burbs, but I don't have an issue with the actual stadium, I actually like it.

Mo Johnston had very little head coaching experience. And he lost most of his games. And got fired. Not the sort of head coach I'd put in charge of my club. You wouldn't hire a mover who keeps dropping things either, would you?

The stadium is honestly one of the major issues I hear from people who visit this city - football fans who are used to a very different stadium "feel". Ours is mainly ugly because east, west, north and south-end all look different. We've got gaps here and there, and it feels and looks cheap. Aluminium stadium. Nah, that's not a proper stadium. It's not the worst I've seen, but it's close. It just doesn't feel like football at all. Scratch that. It feels and looks exactly like an American high school football stadium.

[Auzzy]

Mo Johnston had very little head coaching experience. And he lost most of his games. And got fired. Not the sort of head coach I'd put in charge of my club. You wouldn't hire a mover who keeps dropping things either, would you?

The stadium is honestly one of the major issues I hear from people who visit this city - football fans who are used to a very different stadium "feel". Ours is mainly ugly because east, west, north and south-end all look different. We've got gaps here and there, and it feels and looks cheap. Aluminium stadium. Nah, that's not a proper stadium. It's not the worst I've seen, but it's close. It just doesn't feel like football at all. Scratch that. It feels and looks exactly like an American high school football stadium.

Kinda like this American high school football stadium? g:D

http://headblitz.com/unbelievable-texas-high-school-get-a-60-million-football-stadium/

[brad]

I really can't see the aesthetics of a stadium being a big deal for the vast majority of potential fans. I'm sure some are affected by it, but I have a hard time believing that makes any significant dent in people going to the game.

I can see location and lack of protection from the elements being an issue for much larger segment of people. But then for others, the location is fantastic.

And Super - many of the things you describe about our stadium fit a large number of stadiums around the world - outside the big new uber-stadiums that many clubs play in now. Different stands looking different - common because a large number of stadiums went up one stand at a time, over a period of time. Gaps here and there - again, totally common. Actually, a lot of football fans preferred 4 stand stadiums with the open corners over the full wrap around style of today. It's a common effect. I will give you that it looks cheap though.

[Pookie]

Aside from aesthetics and parking, I am sure that the bulk of the folks in the 200's would offer a comment on the joys of watching the game in the Spring with the bugs.

[brad]

I think getting blasted by the sun or soaked by the wind would be the prime concerns.

[Canary10]

I really can't see the aesthetics of a stadium being a big deal for the vast majority of potential fans. I'm sure some are affected by it, but I have a hard time believing that makes any significant dent in people going to the game.

I can see location and lack of protection from the elements being an issue for much larger segment of people. But then for others, the location is fantastic.

And Super - many of the things you describe about our stadium fit a large number of stadiums around the world - outside the big new uber-stadiums that many clubs play in now. Different stands looking different - common because a large number of stadiums went up one stand at a time, over a period of time. Gaps here and there - again, totally common. Actually, a lot of football fans preferred 4 stand stadiums with the open corners over the full wrap around style of today. It's a common effect. I will give you that it looks cheap though.

I would have agreed with you until I went to a game at Red Bull Arena. Sorry to anyone that's sick of hearing me say this, but that stadium does make a big difference to the enjoyment of the game. You actually feel like you're in a European stadium there, much closer to the action. Waayyy louder, even when not full. I was surprised at how much it makes a difference.

[Super]

Kinda like this American high school football stadium? g:D

http://headblitz.com/unbelievable-texas-high-school-get-a-60-million-football-stadium/

Yup - that's our stadium right there.

http://headblitz.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/allenstadium-580x386.jpg

[brad]

I would have agreed with you until I went to a game at Red Bull Arena. Sorry to anyone that's sick of hearing me say this, but that stadium does make a big difference to the enjoyment of the game. You actually feel like you're in a European stadium there, much closer to the action. Waayyy louder, even when not full. I was surprised at how much it makes a difference.

I agree with you on the stadium adding to the enjoyment. But my question/point is, how many of the 15-20k that are going to games are making the same direct comparison? I bet it's not that many. And of those, how many are deciding not to go because the stadium isn't nice/doesn't have a European feel.

I'm not saying the games wouldn't be more enjoyable in nicer surrounding, but I don't think that is a factor for the majority.

Also - I would say "big team" feel, not European ones. Lots of European stadiums are small, open and crappy as well. I've been to places in England that make BMO look like a palace.

[Super]

And Super - many of the things you describe about our stadium fit a large number of stadiums around the world - outside the big new uber-stadiums that many clubs play in now. Different stands looking different - common because a large number of stadiums went up one stand at a time, over a period of time. Gaps here and there - again, totally common. Actually, a lot of football fans preferred 4 stand stadiums with the open corners over the full wrap around style of today. It's a common effect. I will give you that it looks cheap though.

It looks terribly cheap, and it doesn't really look and feel like a football stadium. I can't think of one. Maybe it's the lack of roof that is mainly throwing me off. You're correct though that a lot of stadiums (here I'm just thinking overseas) do indeed have different stands because each of them were built at different times. What's our excuse? NYRB's stadium is nice. That's the sort of stadium I personally would like to see. We're supposed to be a big club - so why do we still have this cheapo place to call home? Regardless, I'd probably feel a bit better about BMO if I had better experiences there - other than 6 years of poor/losing football.


I've been to places in England that make BMO look like a palace.

BMO will never be a palace in the footballing world. It's true that there are some terrible stadiums in England, but they probably had a lot of charm because they were built before the war. World War I even. It adds to the atmosphere. BMO is just another thing for TFC fans to be embarrassed about - that and our list of negative records.

[brad]

We used to have a packed stadium, and thousands of people waiting to snap up tickets when they were not available. That is no longer the case. The stadium is pretty empty most games, and you can't give tickets away.

Does anyone really think that having a crappy stadium is a key issue, or even a major one for the majority of the thousands of people that no longer go to games? If we replaced BMO field with Red Bull Arena but changed nothing else with the team tomorrow do you think that we'd be back to a packed house thousands lining up to get in?

On the counter point, if we stayed in BMO as is, put together a competitive, entertaining team, started treating the fans/supporters with respect, and shifted the price equation back to a reasonable one, that people would still say - meh, I'm not going, I want a nice stadium?

I really don't.

[brad]

It looks terribly cheap, and it doesn't really look and feel like a football stadium. I can't think of one. Maybe it's the lack of roof that is mainly throwing me off. You're correct though that a lot of stadiums (here I'm just thinking overseas) do indeed have different stands because each of them were built at different times. What's our excuse? NYRB's stadium is nice. That's the sort of stadium I personally would like to see. We're supposed to be a big club - so why do we still have this cheapo place to call home? Regardless, I'd probably feel a bit better about BMO if I had better experiences there - other than 6 years of poor/losing football.

Don't get me wrong - I'd love a nicer stadium. I just don't think it's a key issue for most people, or even something that they give thought to.

Our excuse is we had a stadium built through politics and threw up the cheapest thing that we could.

[Canary10]

Don't get me wrong - I'd love a nicer stadium. I just don't think it's a key issue for most people, or even something that they give thought to.

Our excuse is we had a stadium built through politics and threw up the cheapest thing that we could.

I agree, it's not THE thing, but it's part of it. I think the average fan would be blown away coming into a RBA type stadium for the first time, especially with our supporters groups going full tilt.

[Super]

Don't get me wrong - I'd love a nicer stadium. I just don't think it's a key issue for most people, or even something that they give thought to.

Our excuse is we had a stadium built through politics and threw up the cheapest thing that we could.

That's my only point. It's a cheap looking stadium, and I can't be very happy with that - especially when TFC is owned by a billion dollar corporation. Just another thing for this city to be embarrassed about in sports. But I will agree with you that it's not a key issue with most people who go to BMO - and so we're stuck with it. Worst team in the league. One of the worst stadium in the league. TFC needs to learn how to think big.

[Phil]

That's my only point. It's a cheap looking stadium, and I can't be very happy with that - especially when TFC is owned by a billion dollar corporation. Just another thing for this city to be embarrassed about in sports. But I will agree with you that it's not a key issue with most people who go to BMO - and so we're stuck with it. Worst team in the league. One of the worst stadium in the league. TFC needs to learn how to think big.

Well the city owns the stadium, MLSE operates it.

When it was built, it was pretty much the starter stadium. Now when you look around the MLS at the creative and new facilities it certainly doesnt measure up well.

[Super]

I agree, it's not THE thing, but it's part of it. I think the average fan would be blown away coming into a RBA type stadium for the first time, especially with our supporters groups going full tilt.

Lack of roof is a HUGE factor. It's virtually impossible to get any atmosphere going unless you have 3000 EXCITED supporters taking part. Put a roof on the south end and the few that's still there will sound like 10 times more people. But we won't get it because the original design fucked us over, and that the TFC FO don't really care about GREAT atmosphere - even though they try to sell it to the masses. That's what you get when you put non-football people in charge of a football club. From top to bottom we have people with lack of proper experience. Anselmi had no experience in football, Paul Beirne didn't either. All the way down to our list of head coaches with no head coaching experience (except for Preki). Bunch of amateurs! No wonder this club has been shit for 6 years.


Well the city owns the stadium, MLSE operates it.

When it was built, it was pretty much the starter stadium. Now when you look around the MLS at the creative and new facilities it certainly doesnt measure up well.

That is correct, but MLSE got involved and now it's our home - and probably will be for years. I'm just tired of this lazy attitude towards making this club a success on and off the field. Took us years to get grass. WTF was up with that? Didn't want to invest in DP's until it was pretty much too late - and now we're spending like drunken sailors, but management doesn't know how to make it work.

I want the best for TFC - always. That includes a proper stadium. I won't accept mediocrity. We should be a big club - and look good at the same time!

[Canary10]

Lack of roof is a HUGE factor. It's virtually impossible to get any atmosphere going unless you have 3000 EXCITED supporters taking part. Put a roof on the south end and the few that's still there will sound like 10 times more people. But we won't get it because the original design fucked us over, and that the TFC FO don't really care about GREAT atmosphere - even though they try to sell it to the masses. That's what you get when you put non-football people in charge of a football club. From top to bottom we have people with lack of proper experience. Anselmi had no experience in football, Paul Beirne didn't either. All the way down to our list of head coaches with no head coaching experience (except for Preki). Bunch of amateurs! No wonder this club has been shit for 6 years.

Definitely agree. The CSA has some role here too, as, I believe, the stadium was actually their design. They clearly weren't looking too closely at soccer stadium design when they drafted it. And as others have said, the city was putting in money too. It's too bad they all didn't have the foresight to do what RBA did. RBA is like a hockey arena built around a soccer pitch. Everything is really tight to the pitch, the slope is steep so you feel right over top of the field, the roof keeps all the noise in. Really well done.

[Suds]

That's my only point. It's a cheap looking stadium, and I can't be very happy with that - especially when TFC is owned by a billion dollar corporation. Just another thing for this city to be embarrassed about in sports. But I will agree with you that it's not a key issue with most people who go to BMO - and so we're stuck with it. Worst team in the league. One of the worst stadium in the league. TFC needs to learn how to think big.

BMO is what it is because of many factors. There was no overwhelming desire to have another stadium built in Toronto at the time. We were fortunate to have a Mayor, MLSE, and the CSA work together to come up with what they did. Not one party at the time was willing to foot a massive bill to build a $100+ million dollar stadium for soccer. Tax payers have been burnt before on stadium projects and the climate at the time did not have many willing to back a massive investment. Even MLSE looked at it as a bit of a gamble at the time. And yes, MLSE may lots of cash and be worth a lot, but TFC is its own business unit. MLSE would not move tens of millions from one business unit to fund another. No business would.

For all the negatives about BMO, at least it came in on budget and on time.

[Super]

BMO is what it is because of many factors. There was no overwhelming desire to have another stadium built in Toronto at the time. We were fortunate to have a Mayor, MLSE, and the CSA work together to come up with what they did. Not one party at the time was willing to foot a massive bill to build a $100+ million dollar stadium for soccer. Tax payers have been burnt before on stadium projects and the climate at the time did not have many willing to back a massive investment. Even MLSE looked at it as a bit of a gamble at the time. And yes, MLSE may lots of cash and be worth a lot, but TFC is its own business unit. MLSE would not move tens of millions from one business unit to fund another. No business would.

For all the negatives about BMO, at least it came in on budget and on time.

MLSE spent on TFC before they saw the first dime come in - so clearly they have available funds to spend on new projects. It's an investment. No different than building condos or restaurants - a business MLSE is also focused on. But they certainly won't even entertain it UNLESS fans demand it. Same with the grass. Same with our first DP. We make serious demands, and they usually cave.

[Canary10]

It would be nice if they had a long-term infrastructure/capital improvement plan for the stadium. What's done is done with the basic stadium plan. I'm sure a good architect could figure out a way to improve on what we have now. If MLSE is willing to spend the money that is. Not sure they are.

[prizby]

It would be nice if they had a long-term infrastructure/capital improvement plan for the stadium. What's done is done with the basic stadium plan. I'm sure a good architect could figure out a way to improve on what we have now. If MLSE is willing to spend the money that is. Not sure they are.

all comes down to ROI...every move by MLSE is calculated in a way where they'll go forward with it, if they think/project a positive Return On Investment

[brad]

^^It's about ROI. How much will it cost, and how much will it make them. Will investing an additional tens of millions of dollars make them more money? That is the question.

And Super - in the business world - using funds from an existing venture to launch a new one is very different than funneling funds from one existing venture into another existing one.

[cmonyoureds]

I could care less about the looks of the seat I don't sit on, the concession stands I don't use, and the corporate boxes I don't sit in. (although I do use the bathrooms on occasion)
The atmosphere was pretty amazing the first few years. Blaming the lack of voices and atmosphere on the building doesn't add up. I'd wish for an improved product on field before I even gave a damn about improving the stadium.

More on topic - I think it's slowly moving from "OUR" future to "THEIR" future for the vast majority of people.

[TFC_Allez]

From the looks of things on the pitch and the constant politics that's been causing problems since day one...there isn't much of a future. The one saving grace for this team is the academy system. The unfortunate thing about that is that the academy will take some time to develop the players into starting XI quality. Time is definitely working against this team...the decline in attendance is proof of that. Six years of failure and zero forethought into the future in all facets of the team as a whole (besides the academy) has left even the most die-hard fans feeling disenfranchised. The optimism surrounding this team and the hope that some manager would come along and transform us into a winning team has disappeared. It's been 6 years. In the grand scheme of things, 6 years isn't that long. But when a fan base has known nothing but losing season after season, how can one be optimistic for the future. Unless there's a total change of philosophy and a group of players playing under a system that is both fun to watch, and competitve vs other MLS squads...I'm sorry to say, we won't just be bottom of the league in points, as we've all become a custom to; attendance will follow shortly thereafter. Then what?

[Torontotonto]

Based on the past...Not Much!

:facepalm:

[SoccMan]

BMO Field is not a proper soccer stadium, the east stands need to be steeper, they built this lousy stadium with CFL fucking football in mind, it looks like a CFL football stadium it's a perfect stadium for the Argos not for soccer, stands need to be steep in a soccer stadium, the people who designed this sorry excuse of a soccer stadium had no clue what a soccer stadium looks like. All it would have taken was for whoever designed this piece of crap to have a look on the internet of what a proper soccer stadium looks like,however, they looked at an old drawing of a CFL stadium when they designed BMO field what a joke of a field. One of the reasons I'm not renewing my seasons next year is that I can't take watching a game from that CFL stadium anymore!

[Fort York Redcoat]

BMO Field is not a proper soccer stadium, the east stands need to be steeper, they built this lousy stadium with CFL fucking football in mind, it looks like a CFL football stadium it's a perfect stadium for the Argos not for soccer, stands need to be steep in a soccer stadium, the people who designed this sorry excuse of a soccer stadium had no clue what a soccer stadium looks like. All it would have taken was for whoever designed this piece of crap to have a look on the internet of what a proper soccer stadium looks like,however, they looked at an old drawing of a CFL stadium when they designed BMO field what a joke of a field. One of the reasons I'm not renewing my seasons next year is that I can't take watching a game from that CFL stadium anymore!

Gridiron stadiums have steep stands as well. Especially on the ends. And the design was clearly never for CFL or it would've been made to fit a CFL team. It's a cookie cutter stadium, granted, but past soccer they only had "special events" in mind. Not gridiron.