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denime
07-27-2012, 05:39 AM
Mornin'




TFC TV (http://www.torontofc.ca/video)




Hassli To Join Toronto Friday (http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2012/07/hassli-join-toronto-friday)


Toronto & Aceval Part Ways (http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2012/07/toronto-aceval-part-ways)


Canadian soccer players left out in the cold (http://www.torontosun.com/2012/07/26/canadian-soccer-players-left-out-in-the-cold)




TFC Related Blogs !!

(http://redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?29582-TFC-MLS-blogs-thread)


SUNSHINE (http://www.torontosun.com/sunshine-girl)

Eastend
07-27-2012, 06:50 AM
Wow, didn't see the Aceval thing coming.....

Thanks for this everyday D....best part of the site...... :)


Dom

Plenty of Trout
07-27-2012, 07:22 AM
NOT a fan of pasty White girls but Lawd the SSG has a rack!

ecospice
07-27-2012, 07:34 AM
NOT a fan of pasty White girls but Lawd the SSG has a rack!


Yes. Good armor, bad helmet!

Dreadlocks
07-27-2012, 08:44 AM
Canadian soccer players left out in the cold (http://www.torontosun.com/2012/07/26/canadian-soccer-players-left-out-in-the-cold)

I guess I don't really understand this 'US immigration rules' thing. How come it causes an issue with Canadian players playing in the MLS and not in the NBA, MLB and especially the NHL where at least 40% of all players are Canadian?

eustacchio
07-27-2012, 08:47 AM
^ that's because it's an MLS rule and not an immigration law.

Why did I think that they did away with this?

EDIT: well, shut my mouth. I just got to that part in the story.

Dreadlocks
07-27-2012, 08:56 AM
It's really puzzling and sounds more like another MLS cover up or something.

Can anyone here shed some light please?

denime
07-27-2012, 09:16 AM
Canadian soccer players left out in the cold (http://www.torontosun.com/2012/07/26/canadian-soccer-players-left-out-in-the-cold)

I guess I don't really understand this 'US immigration rules' thing. How come it causes an issue with Canadian players playing in the MLS and not in the NBA, MLB and especially the NHL where at least 40% of all players are Canadian?

Because NHL does not have International spot quota likes MLS and other soccer leagues around the world.Garber already explain that several times,by US Immigration law if they allowed Canadians to be domestic players than they have to do the same for players from Mexico or England or and other country,other words they would have to strip international quota all together like in NBA or NHL.

By US Immigration law American employers aren’t allowed to give preferential treatment to the citizens of any one nation .

pdogg
07-27-2012, 09:16 AM
My understanding is that they are not allowed to give preferential treatment to one foreign country over another. So if MLS said only Canadian soccer players count as domestic instead of, say Bolivian, it would go against the laws in place. It has more to do with them limiting the number of international spots on a roster than anything else.

As for the NBA, MLB, NHL - they don't have a domestic/international quota, afaik. You could have a team full of europeans, a team full of americans, a team of Canadians, or any mix. If the NHL said that you need to have a minimum of 10 domestic players, then the american teams would have to lump the Canadians in with the Europeans for the remaining 14 spots, too.

Dreadlocks
07-27-2012, 09:46 AM
Ok thanks. That makes sense.

Richard
07-27-2012, 10:11 AM
So how do you solve this issue?

denime
07-27-2012, 10:14 AM
Proclaim that MLS is US/Canadian league and players from both countries are domestic.

Detroit_TFC
07-27-2012, 10:21 AM
Actually NAFTA does create a preference system but only in certain defined job classifications. Too bad professional athletes aren't part of that definition, that would make this issue go away.

joeyjones
07-27-2012, 10:23 AM
if MLS did push for this, i would imagine that the scenario would be something like: up to 3 Canadian players on a US MLS team would be considered domestic. doubt it would be unlimited.

Pookie
07-27-2012, 10:31 AM
if MLS did push for this, i would imagine that the scenario would be something like: up to 3 Canadian players on a US MLS team would be considered domestic. doubt it would be unlimited.

Finally, we are talking about this without folks running to the flag.

The reason they are against changing the program is simply that this is a USA Developmental League. That's what it started as and that is the driving philosophy behind it.

Much like the CFL has a Canadian quota for our purposes, the US fully intends to shut Canucks out.

Which is why, if you step aside and accept the rule as is, it makes no sense for us to stock 1/3 of our roster with players that are less likely to work there. That is unless of course we want TFC to be the developmental arm of the CSA.

For my money though, this is club... not country and to pay the highest ticket prices in the league (in some vantage points) to help Earl and the CSA, sorry... not flying with me. You are either going to compete or not.

TOBOR !
07-27-2012, 11:09 AM
transfer window closes today :facepalm:

ManUtd4ever
07-27-2012, 11:19 AM
The transfer window closes for foreign players under contract.

TFC can still sign foreign free agents and trade within MLS after today.

Fort York Redcoat
07-27-2012, 11:26 AM
Finally, we are talking about this without folks running to the flag.

The reason they are against changing the program is simply that this is a USA Developmental League. That's what it started as and that is the driving philosophy behind it.

Much like the CFL has a Canadian quota for our purposes, the US fully intends to shut Canucks out.

Which is why, if you step aside and accept the rule as is, it makes no sense for us to stock 1/3 of our roster with players that are less likely to work there. That is unless of course we want TFC to be the developmental arm of the CSA.

For my money though, this is club... not country and to pay the highest ticket prices in the league (in some vantage points) to help Earl and the CSA, sorry... not flying with me. You are either going to compete or not.

One note (or "run to the flag" if you want) There is a time and place for that strategy you are damning. This is not it, I agree. Toronto is still a toddler when it comes to growth of recognizing talent and making the team better. I can try and leave the flag out of it for you. Player aquisition is so local because its easier( read lazier). My endgame would see a team actually competing at the top of the league table with a local squad falling over themselves to do their best here before moving on.

I don't care if the CSA has a better relationship with our team. Of course I don't want that to hurt us developing as a team as it has but I think the point should be that the people involved should see that a heavily local stocked side that struggles doesn't do that country any good either.

Nutshell: I agree with you even though I'm coming from a country not club POV.

(flag run over :canada:)

Pookie
07-27-2012, 11:40 AM
One note (or "run to the flag" if you want) There is a time and place for that strategy you are damning. This is not it, I agree. Toronto is still a toddler when it comes to growth of recognizing talent and making the team better. I can try and leave the flag out of it for you. Player aquisition is so local because its easier( read lazier). My endgame would see a team actually competing at the top of the league table with a local squad falling over themselves to do their best here before moving on.

I don't care if the CSA has a better relationship with our team. Of course I don't want that to hurt us developing as a team as it has but I think the point should be that the people involved should see that a heavily local stocked side that struggles doesn't do that country any good either.

Nutshell: I agree with you even though I'm coming from a country not club POV.

(flag run over :canada:)

I could even come at this from a country point of view.

If this MLS quota rule is ever made reciprocal (Canadians count as Domestics in USA), then I would suggest that we can develop and maintain players without regard to nationality. Of course, it would be completely foolish to not scout all markets and in particular the USA very heavily but keeping a player like Stinson wouldn't hurt the club. And in fact, it would benefit the national program. So, that's win-win.

The issue in keeping Stinson isn't that Stinson can't be as good as Dan Gargan. It's that Stinson has to be better than an International Roster player in order to take Dan Gargan's job. This hurts Stinson's opportunities incredibly.

Canucks don't have to be better than available yankees under these rules. They have to be better than available Internationals.

moralis
07-27-2012, 12:01 PM
I think we can put the Olof Mellberg to TFC to rest as it seems he will sign with Belgium club Anderlecht:

https://twitter.com/#!/search/realtime/Olof%20Mellberg

http://translate.google.ca/translate?hl=en&sl=nl&u=http://www.voetbalnieuws.be/news/31677/34-jarige_Zweed_naar_Anderlecht_om_verdediging_te_ver sterken&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dhttp://www.voetbalnieuws.be/news/31677/34-jarige_Zweed_naar_Anderlecht_om_verdediging_te_ver sterken%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26hs%3DEe9%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26prmd%3Dimvns&sa=X&ei=-cYSUKz5JYy20QHN8oDgCw&ved=0CCgQ7gEwAA

denime
07-27-2012, 12:14 PM
I think we can put the Olof Mellberg to TFC to rest as it seems he will sign with Belgium club Anderlecht:

https://twitter.com/#!/search/realtime/Olof Mellberg (https://twitter.com/#%21/search/realtime/Olof%20Mellberg)

http://translate.google.ca/translate?hl=en&sl=nl&u=http://www.voetbalnieuws.be/news/31677/34-jarige_Zweed_naar_Anderlecht_om_verdediging_te_ver sterken&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dhttp://www.voetbalnieuws.be/news/31677/34-jarige_Zweed_naar_Anderlecht_om_verdediging_te_ver sterken%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26hs%3DEe9%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26prmd%3Dimvns&sa=X&ei=-cYSUKz5JYy20QHN8oDgCw&ved=0CCgQ7gEwAA

Maybe now we can loan him from Anderlecht.

Earl can you look into it,maybe you can work some magic here.:banghead:

Phil
07-27-2012, 12:52 PM
Maybe now we can loan him from Anderlecht.

Earl can you look into it,maybe you can work some magic here.:banghead:

Almost every reporter is saying that the MLS killed the deal, not TFC & not Mellberg.

TOBOR !
07-27-2012, 01:24 PM
^ curiously, Seattle has been allowed to sign a 4th DP - go check the 'non-TFC' transfer thread if you like.

Phil
07-27-2012, 01:32 PM
Ya, its wierd. I have been hearing a lot of bullcrap lately between the league and TFC. Larson just tweeted that JDG is not a DP on Dallas payroll, so it begs the question if the league considers him on us?

Yohan
07-27-2012, 02:27 PM
^ curiously, Seattle has been allowed to sign a 4th DP - go check the 'non-TFC' transfer thread if you like.alvaro fernandez got sold to a teamin south america.

TOBOR !
07-27-2012, 02:33 PM
^ that was fast.

joeyjones
07-27-2012, 02:46 PM
alvaro fernandez got sold to a teamin south america.

are you sure?

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/soundersfcblog/2018753108_alvaro_fernandez_addresses_rum.html

arsenal
07-27-2012, 02:49 PM
Ya, its wierd. I have been hearing a lot of bullcrap lately between the league and TFC. Larson just tweeted that JDG
is not a DP on Dallas payroll, so it begs the question if the league considers him on us?

I believe you have hit the nail on the head here. Looking up article for WV Hooligan (reliable) at time of DeGuzman trade mentions


"Toronto FC has sent Designated Player Julian de Guzman to FC Dallas in exchange for Generation adidas midfielder/forward Andrew Wiedeman.Yeah, a DP for a GA. That’s it. My sources also tell me that Toronto will be picking up the majority of de Guzman’s hefty $1.9 million contract as well, so for Dallas this is merely a rental for six months. Not bad."


http://wvhooligan.com/2012/07/13/14051/toronto-sends-de-guzman-to-dallas/

I can't see how trading him away but still paying most of his contract would free up DP spot.

BayernTFC
07-27-2012, 03:11 PM
I can't see how trading him away but still paying most of his contract would free up DP spot.

This is from the bottom of the wvhooligan link you provided:


What it means for Toronto:

This deal for Toronto is fairly simple.

They pick up a GA contract that doesn’t go on the books this season and unload a DP slot and a good chunk of cap space. If anything this signifies that they will be going on the open market for another DP, likely someone to man the back line. If they are smart, they could be setting their sights on someone like Carlos Bocanegra.


Without gaining salary cap relief and a DP spot, how does the deal make sense for TFC? Under such a scenario, Mariner would be responsible for TFC paying to improve FC Dallas while essentially making Wiedeman TFC's new DP. :facepalm:

joeyjones
07-27-2012, 03:21 PM
Without gaining salary cap relief and a DP spot, how does the deal make sense for TFC? Under such a scenario, Mariner would be responsible for TFC paying to improve FC Dallas while essentially making Wiedeman TFC's new DP. :facepalm:

Dallas is paying the cap hit, but probably not the DP money

BayernTFC
07-27-2012, 03:24 PM
are you sure?

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/soundersfcblog/2018753108_alvaro_fernandez_addresses_rum.html

There's also this:


It would appear that reports of Alvaro Fernandez's (http://www.sbnation.com/soccer/fifa/players/110948/alvaro-fernandez) imminent departure may have been a bit premature. While the rumor wire was all abuzz over Fernandez joining Colombian side Deportivo Cali last week, El Pais is now reporting (http://www.elpais.com.co/elpais/deportes/noticias/nunca-pense-renunciar-julio-comesana-tecnico-deportivo-cali) that the deal has fallen through.

It's not entirely clear why this happened, but it does seem to indicate that Fernandez will at least be finishing out the MLS season with the Sounders.
http://www.sounderatheart.com/2012/7/25/3187114/sounders-transfer-rumor-alvaro-fernandez-deportivo-cali

arsenal
07-27-2012, 03:28 PM
This is from the bottom of the wvhooligan link you provided:


Without gaining salary cap relief and a DP spot, how does the deal make sense for TFC? Under such a scenario, Mariner would be responsible for TFC paying to improve FC Dallas while essentially making Wiedeman TFC's new DP. :facepalm:

Well perhaps we gained the ability to use the DP spot .... but no actual cap relief since we still pay most fo his salary. I think we were all just happy to see DeGuzman gone and did not question the circumstances. But it makes very little sense for MLS to allow for a team to trade a DP to another team and pay all (or the vast majority) of his salary and then regain the DP spot and the whole cap hit. That would essentially be circumventing the rule that does not allow anotehr team to acquire a 4th DP.

Auzzy
07-27-2012, 03:36 PM
That Larson tweet makes some sense to me. Another way to put it: just because Garber is lying, doesn't mean TFC FO didn't fuck up. Perhaps TFC thought: we'll send JDG to Dallas, free that DP spot up, Dallas takes the cap hit, but TFC keeps paying JDG's salary that is above the cap. They agree on financial details with Mellberg etc. & say the deal is done.

Then perhaps MLS says: if you're still paying JDG's salary above the cap, then he's still your DP. That would make some sense under the league's parity rules; Asif & others from TFC have been harping about MLS parity rules in the last few days. The league's view would be: we don't want a rich team like MLSE/TFC to give away DPs, still pay their DP salary, and sign new DPs at the same time -- something that a less wealthy MLS team would not be able to do. For the next half year, TFC would potentially be paying DP salaries to 5 players: JDG; Frings; Koevermans; Hassli; Mellberg.

EDIT or approximately what arsenal said above ;)

Pookie
07-27-2012, 03:46 PM
auzzy, your explanation makes sense to me.

It is also plausible that TFC made the deal thinking that they would be relieving themselves of the DP only to have the league weigh in after the fact. It's not uncommon for TFC to not understand the nature of contracts (see, Plata, DeRo)

One also has to look at what's plausible.

The league has shown time and time again that it is willing to make exceptions. For his years here, DeRo was paid more than the league max and only counted $335k against the cap. He resigned in DC for close to $700k, has a $335k cap hit and isn't a DP.

To think that they just don't want Mellberg because he isn't the right type of DP is just foolish. There have been many "unknown" DPs that have little added value for the league. Even MLS promotions like Joseph to DP to other players that aren't "name brands." They don't care about Mellberg's ability to sell tickets. If ticket selling is a concern, it's related to MLSE's operation of their franchise.

Ultimately, this is a "lesson" to TFC that you have to get your shit together. Let's not forget how foolish TFC made them look during the Celtic fiasco. That stuff sticks.

BayernTFC
07-27-2012, 03:48 PM
That would essentially be circumventing the rule that does not allow anotehr team to acquire a 4th DP.
Seattle didn't even have to pay a penny to circumvent the rule:


Seattle Sounders FC has traded midfielder Alvaro Fernandez to the Chicago Fire in exchange for allocation money.
http://www.soundersfc.com/news/articles/2012/07-july/fernandez-traded-to-fire.aspx


Seattle is even going to get magical "allocation" $ to improve their team even more. LMFAO.

arsenal
07-27-2012, 03:51 PM
Seattle didn't even have to pay a penny to circumvent the rule:


http://www.soundersfc.com/news/articles/2012/07-july/fernandez-traded-to-fire.aspx


Seattle is even going to get magical "allocation" $ to improve their team even more. LMFAO.

I must have missed in the article where is says that Seattle is still paying all (or most) of his salary :)

Auzzy
07-27-2012, 03:53 PM
^ Pookie, I agree. There have been plenty of bizarre DP signings. I can't imagine MLS stopping the signing of a guy who just played well in the Euros, just because he's a defender -- especially with TFC's obvious defensive problems, and TFC's financial importance for the league.

Perhaps it's also the case that one exception to the DP rule (replacing JDG; or replacing the injured DP Danny K) would have been OK, but replacing two while still paying their DP salaries was too much for the league. I only did the math now & realized that we would essentially have five DP salaries to cover for the rest of the year if Mellberg came as a DP.

Also a colossal screw up if TFC can't find a good non-DP CB. There are plenty around the league; why can't TFC find any after 5.5 years? Well except Tebily who was good for 4 games... ;)

BayernTFC
07-27-2012, 03:54 PM
I must have missed in the article where is says that Seattle is still paying all (or most) of his salary :)

Only TFC does things like that. ;) Seatlle gets allocation for their surplus DPs.

arsenal
07-27-2012, 03:57 PM
Only TFC does things like that. ;) Seatlle gets allocation for their surplus DPs.

LOL ..... well it helps when the DP you are trading away is actually good and being paid accordingly.

BayernTFC
07-27-2012, 04:05 PM
LOL ..... well it helps when the DP you are trading away is actually good and being paid accordingly.
It certainly does. It's also a good thing Seattle wasn't forced to accept any contracts in return for Alvaro Fernandez either. A good deal all around. I wish TFC had Seattle's management team.