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jasonbanks
07-26-2012, 11:08 PM
After reading so much negativity towards a team that this board has been dedicated to, I pose a genuine question to ALL... what kind of supporter are YOU?

This in a battlefield, and is not meant for everyone to attack each other.


I am home-town, Toronto for Life, win, lose or draw. I will stand by and support this club through all the turmoil. I will forever be optimistic, and give the team a chance to show improvement in times of change. I sometimes watch with a heavy heart at disappointing results, but I cheer the fact we HAVE a team to cheer FOR. Mistakes have been made, and more will follow. My support, is unconditional.

West220Side
07-26-2012, 11:31 PM
Let me be first. I'm sure this is in everybodys top five with recent times. I'm a heartbroken supporter.
With that said, loyal to this club, does that also make me a stupid supporter?

jasonbanks
07-26-2012, 11:51 PM
Let me be first. I'm sure this is in everybodys top five with recent times. I'm a heartbroken supporter.
With that said, loyal to this club, does that also make me a stupid supporter?

Making an investment with continual loss is stupid. Sports is NOT an investment, a fan is not an investor, and anyone who pays for tickets should not be thinking they are investing in anything. This club will continue to evolve, and I shall be in the stands through it all. I do not follow the belief loyalty is stupidity.

Kevvv
07-27-2012, 12:45 AM
It's absolutely an investment, but of time and emotion, not money. When fans and supporters are not invested in the team (emotionally), the results don't matter - it's a lovely day in the sun, maybe with some beer and some decent soccer to watch. Fans with some investment in the team care about the results and feel the joy and pain of the results.

kodiakTFC
07-27-2012, 01:31 AM
Everything you said except optimistic. We live in Toronto, optimism and sports will get you no one. Instead, I recommend pessimism and any success that comes afterward is a bonus! In all seriousness though, my passion for TFC is borderline dangerous.

narduch
07-27-2012, 05:45 AM
This thread reminds me of this song:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ehwYjuZ6e_Q

Brooker
07-27-2012, 05:54 AM
I really like Toronto FC.

narduch
07-27-2012, 05:55 AM
Only true supporter's don't make fun of official TFC timepieces.

T-boy
07-27-2012, 09:11 AM
Before somebody suggests it, jasonbanks and myself are not the same person! :p

pdogg
07-27-2012, 09:24 AM
Before somebody suggests it, jasonbanks and myself are not the same person! :p

That's exactly what T-Banks would say. You're suspect!

T-boy
07-27-2012, 09:46 AM
That's exactly what T-Banks would say. You're suspect!

Tom Bankselmi?! :p

Dreadlocks
07-27-2012, 10:06 AM
I guess I'd say I am more a supporter/fan of soccer and Toronto than I am of TFC. You could actually say that I follow/support TFC (or any Toronto team be it the Marlies, the Leafs, the Raps, the Rock, the Jays or the Argos) by default since this is my home town. But I do hold TFC closer to my heart than any of the other Toronto teams because I LOVE soccer.

My level of interest usually depends on the success of the team but there is always interest, and there will always be interest regardless of anything.

Detroit_TFC
07-27-2012, 10:17 AM
I sing Toronto Til I Die. So far every year the team has given me plenty of reasons to test whether I am serious about that and yet I am still saying it. No way do I have the same level of enthusiasm as Season I but wins still thrill me and losses devastate me.

trane
07-27-2012, 10:22 AM
I will say this, if I spoke my true feelings on this I would get banned.

I will also say this, I love football, I love Toronto. I do not love MLSE and the current TFC FO. I can thank MLSE for bringing a team to Toronto, and some great moments and some solid players, but not much else. Almost everything else in regard to MLSE management of this club has been an embaracment to football and to the city.

Detroit_TFC
07-27-2012, 10:28 AM
I will say this, if I spoke my true feelings on this I would get banned.

I will also say this, I love football, I love Toronto, I do not love MLSE and the current TFC FO.

Ah, but the key point is that you care what happens, even if you are furious with how things are going. There are tons of people, formerly who did care, who are now indifferent or not paying any attention (those people probably not here to read this). The big question is if those folks will ever come back. Some might say they shouldn't/fuck them, but I'm not of that view.

Gazza
07-27-2012, 10:30 AM
I'm the type of supporter who shouts obscenities at opposing players and when they make eye contact, i act like it was the guy beside me.

Unconditional support for MLSE teams is like having Stockholm Syndrome. It can't be healthy.

trane
07-27-2012, 10:33 AM
Ah, but the key point is that you care what happens, even if you are furious with how things are going. There are tons of people, formerly who did care, who are now indifferent or not paying any attention (those people probably not here to read this). The big question is if those folks will ever come back. Some might say they shouldn't/fuck them, but I'm not of that view.

I think they would if the club changes, but the changes have to be fundamental.

I hope that happens one day.

TOBOR !
07-27-2012, 10:33 AM
Follow along faithfully, blindly, asking no questions, if you care to do so.

That's not for me.

I'll cheer for this club regardless of the situation, but I believe it should be run thoughtfully and intelligently, with the ultimate goal of winning in mind.

While the club accepts my adulations, I think they should also listen to my grievances. More than in any other sport I think there is a two-way relationship between club and supporter.

I think this type of support is especially important with an ownership like MLSE. Without constant reining-in, MLSE will squeeze as much out of this club as it can, while providing nothing significant.

Simply turning up, cheering on the team, and purchasing concessions will only enable this.

jabbronies
07-27-2012, 10:38 AM
I'm a "critical supporter".
I'll watch the games and cheer for the boys when they are playing well. But I have no problems voicing my displeasure with something happening on the pitch.
but I will always try and give credit where it's due.

Fort York Redcoat
07-27-2012, 11:12 AM
I think there are millions of shades of Support and it's an ongoing miracle that any of us come together and agree on any part of it. Sometimes we're quick to place others in a simple pigeonhole of one or the other.

I'm glad this conversation has been civil and hope it remains so.

I'll always try to celebrate the Support we share in common

ALL TOGETHER

trane
07-27-2012, 02:03 PM
Follow along faithfully, blindly, asking no questions, if you care to do so.

That's not for me.

I'll cheer for this club regardless of the situation, but I believe it should be run thoughtfully and intelligently, with the ultimate goal of winning in mind.

While the club accepts my adulations, I think they should also listen to my grievances. More than in any other sport I think there is a two-way relationship between club and supporter.

I think this type of support is especially important with an ownership like MLSE. Without constant reining-in, MLSE will squeeze as much out of this club as it can, while providing nothing significant.

Simply turning up, cheering on the team, and purchasing concessions will only enable this.

This is the view of many supporters, both who are still here or have left, for one reason or the other. DO be honest I stay around in hope that I can be a voice for these, in as positive a manner as possible (for me at least).

Derko
07-27-2012, 03:09 PM
My Dad had season tickets to Toronto Blizzard, him and I would sit at Exhibition Stadium and watch Football and were devestated when that team and league came crashing down.
When TFC were announced as an expansion in the MLS I jumped at the chance to support a team again in Toronto.
I have stuck by them through thick and thin, (more thin), I am a devouted supporter of the team and players, yes I have booed at certain times, but cheered more often than not. I will not give up my support and seats, There are often times I hear supporters saying they will pack it in and get casual tickets as opposed to ST's, that is there choice and respect that.
I wear my jersey around town proudly. I can't wait for game day,I get pissed off if I am late for kick-off, it is a ritual for me.

Upset and disappointed in MLSE ownership and management? I would be lying if I said I was not, TFC needs a passionate ownership.

I hope to hear us loud and proud on game day, let's not give up our passion and stick to our boys on the pitch.
I will always be one of 'THOSE TFC SUPPORTERS' you would always hear talked about, how they were rowdy and ready to take anyone on who would scoff at our team.

dupont
07-27-2012, 03:15 PM
The best damn pet shop (oops, I mean supporter) in town!

Pookie
07-27-2012, 03:34 PM
I'm at a cross roads.

I will not be renewing my season tickets. I'm not prepared to pay a premium to the club to do it. Holding a season ticket holds no value anymore. I am upset that I have allowed them to exploit me and others. From ransom packs to "loyalty pricing policies" to the highest prices by vantage point... I hate it and by buying it, I enable it.

I do intend to get to as many games though as I did/will this year.I will buy tickets from supporters for the games that I can attend, instead of being stuck with tickets for games that are scheduled on days with conflicts (eg. kids' soccer).

I will sing for the players, even Terry Dunfield. However, I am pissed at the lack of resources and vision that will see us only attract, develop and bred middle of the road performance and players.

Not sure where this classifies me.

Jeffro
07-27-2012, 03:45 PM
One word:
Part-time

Relja
07-27-2012, 04:16 PM
Toronto until i die..... but sometimes the Delije can write it so elegantly:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/553494_10151131097768615_1558217497_n.jpg

English Translated to: You (The team) are not deserving of fans like us

Stryker
07-27-2012, 04:46 PM
Love this team to death but hate the people running it. MLSE has been fairly generous in terms of spending on the team (academy grounds, mulitiple DP's) but it infuriates me they let the team be destroyed by the INCOMPETENT LYING SACKS OF SHIT IN THE FRONT OFFICE. YEAH IM TAKING ABOUT YOU ANSELMI COCHRANE AND BEIRNE.

denime
07-27-2012, 05:08 PM
Toronto until i die..... but sometimes the Delije can write it so elegantly:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/553494_10151131097768615_1558217497_n.jpg

English Translated to: You (The team) are not deserving of fans like us

http://i47.tinypic.com/2ecfd6t.jpg

but in the same time see signature ;)

SKB
07-27-2012, 05:35 PM
If you are a supporter by definition you are loyal and in it for the long haul. When things are at their worst you rally around the club. You are not a detractor or they would call you that. I understand as a supporter we are emotionally engaged and we get frustrated, but in the end we are Red's for life. That is me as a supporter.

Chris Wren
07-27-2012, 09:11 PM
I was banned from this board for getting into a debate where my point was to give Mariner a chance (funny, that was before we tied our 2008 best win streak). Once I had three references to getting ass raped by MLSE thrown my way by a moderator I responded somewhat harshly (I don't believe the moderator was so much as told to cool it with the ass rape references, never mind banned).

This board is completely negative, and if you aren't negative you're spoken too like you're an idiot.

Kaz
07-27-2012, 09:49 PM
I will follow TFC, I will not follow another MLS team.
I believe if you live in the GTA and you put on a Becks Jersey at a TFC game you are jerk.
I however also believe in this team and sport as an entertainment, not a life style. Therefore if the team loses game after game, I'm not going to watch as it's not entertaining. To me the game is entertaining when we win, when we are up, when we play well. If we win but the whole game my throat was in my heart that still is not entertaining.

Preki did not entertain me. Winter didn't entertain me beyond a 3 month stretch from July to October. Mariner is hit and miss, but I'm not ashamed of the play.

What some of the "supporters" on this board forget is that in the stands there are more of me then of them. More people come because they want to be entertained, and have a good day out. They come to watch the game. Not chant.

Many of the supporters have shown through on this board and their hate of MLSE, that to them being a TFC supporters means two things... being elitist and going to games because it's their life style. Of course they aren't there to watch, they are there to sing and chant, the game is their stage, the team playing only matters on paper and in the press. At least that is what I've come to see year in and year out.

heck I may make this statement every years at this point... I may two or three times already.

joeyjones
07-27-2012, 09:49 PM
I was banned from this board for getting into a debate where my point was to give Mariner a chance (funny, that was before we tied our 2008 best win streak). Once I had three references to getting ass raped by MLSE thrown my way by a moderator I responded somewhat harshly (I don't believe the moderator was so much as told to cool it with the ass rape references, never mind banned).

This board is completely negative, and if you aren't negative you're spoken too like you're an idiot.

yes, i haven't been banned yet, but i received negative rep points from the moderator that i called BS on his "i can see the future" post.....in my opinion, RPB is falling apart...splintered support, hate at every turn, conspiracy theorists...when i look over at 112, i don't see that much IMO...if you are not a hater, you are a fool..apparently

narduch
07-27-2012, 10:13 PM
I was banned from this board for getting into a debate where my point was to give Mariner a chance (funny, that was before we tied our 2008 best win streak). Once I had three references to getting ass raped by MLSE thrown my way by a moderator I responded somewhat harshly (I don't believe the moderator was so much as told to cool it with the ass rape references, never mind banned).

This board is completely negative, and if you aren't negative you're spoken too like you're an idiot.

I'm surprised they allow that moderator to continue to be belligerent to posters who disagree with him.

I got an infraction from that same moderator and when I tried to bring it up to other moderators they didn't seem interested.

__wowza
07-27-2012, 10:44 PM
supported this team in my own special way, on a budget.

first years of this club i picked up the odd ticket if it was affordable, made it out to the pubs/away games/events i could spend money on and helped out the RPBs when i could.
love the team to death, but that death is normally marked with a $ sign. i had absolutely no problem picking up tickets to games i could shell out the extra cash for, and no problem watching the games via stream when i couldn't. i haven picked up any of the latest TFC merch (or the new jerseys) simply because i didnt like them. i don't consider myself "less" of a supporter as a result of any of this.

as of right now, i can easily find myself falling back into this previous model in the next two seasons (im moving to france for a year, shit ain't cheap yo).
the RPBs need voices in the stands, but MLSE doesn't make it easy on the wallet by any means.. and that's a hard statement because frankly i love going to games.

TOBOR !
07-27-2012, 11:45 PM
I was banned from this board for getting into a debate where my point was to give Mariner a chance (funny, that was before we tied our 2008 best win streak). Once I had three references to getting ass raped by MLSE thrown my way by a moderator I responded somewhat harshly (I don't believe the moderator was so much as told to cool it with the ass rape references, never mind banned).

This board is completely negative, and if you aren't negative you're spoken too like you're an idiot.

I don`t think mods should be allowed to participate in threads at all.

I think they should punch in and moderate. ID Moderator 1, Moderator 2, etc. Observe without commenting, stepping in as required.

Want to participate in the thread ? Log in as yourself.

Doing both at the same time lends power and authority to an opinion, regardless of it's merit.

I think the two should be separated.

Anyway, Chris Wren ; joeyjones ; narduch ; you guys with issues with mods that can't be resolved directly should take it to Phil ; or Wagner ;.

Pookie
07-28-2012, 06:47 AM
I am not sure what the word is to describe what I feel when I read Chris and others comments about the board being overly negative.

Many of those that are less than enthusiastic about the future direction of this team were some of the more vocal ones in support of maintaining a positive outlook. On a personal level, I would challenge those that waded into post game threads after losses, I took issue with a former member/moderator who would berate Registered Users who offered something positive on a supporters website of all places.

However, the team has changed its course and it is both proper and necessary for each of us who care about the club to understand what those changes mean. N you aren't going to get that in the local media who simply offer up the quotes that the club wants to spin to us like having one of the best strikers of the modern era coming in from FC Dallas or progressing to the point that we are level with Liverpool FC. Sheesh

Looking deeper into the MLS roster rules, which Kurtis Larson of the mainstream media finally did recently is important. I've been sounding the alarms in blogs and posts here for months now on that subject.

Looking deeper into MLS ticket prices and questioning why we pay the highest prices in the league is valid. This is a single entity leage after all. I paid less to see the MLS All Stars v Chelsea this week than many of you did to see TFC v Liverpool. Take that game by game in the MLS and it's unforgivable.

Looking deeper into the future, the Academy is valid. This is what the organization is selling us for hope. Developing players in a mold that doesn't fit the way the game is going is bad for both the club and your kids' futures. When an insider says that parents are leaving, that should be cause for concern. Coming off the back of stories like Aleman, this is worth questioning.

Looking into the Hassli trade and the price of a 1st round pick is the kind of stuff we should do. If the Leafs traded for a veteran and currently injured player that would have been an unrestricted free agent at season's end with less than half the schedule remaining in a season that is essentially a write off, that would be big news. So too would their possible improvement in the table in this current season in relation to how it hurt their draft standing next year.

Looking deeper into why Plata was loaned back to the same team is valid. Why he left after Winter did is a pressing question. Knowing denime's source, the whole idea that no one called Nesta back is a huge issue. Our lack of understanding of MLS contracts may have hurt us with Mellberg, and regardless of who you think is to blame, certainly the lack of a Plan B is inexcusable.

And the fact that all of this continues to be overseen by a failure of a VP who escapes accountability needs to be called out.

You say it's negative. I say it's negative because it is negative and we say it because we care.

Shakes McQueen
07-28-2012, 06:56 AM
Doing both at the same time lends power and authority to an opinion, regardless of it's merit.

Moderators have been instructed NOT to do both at the same time. If you participate in a thread, you aren't supposed to be directly moderating exchanges you're invovled in, because it can lead to pretty obvious power abuse issues. If a mod is doing this, then you should take your complaint to another moderator. Failing any action on that level for some reason, take it to Phil or Wagner. It should be noted that getting no direct response to your complaint from a moderator does not mean it wasn't brought up.

Your "punching in" idea would make more sense in a world where we do this as a paid job with work hours, and not on a volountary basis here and there when we have the time.

Anyway, back to topic. We can continue this discussion via PMs, if you desire.

- Scott

ensco
07-28-2012, 07:05 AM
Let's see who the new CEO of MLSE is. That will give me more optimism, or more pessimism, than anything else could.

I come on here because I like the chatter, but in truth, I am way less engaged than I used to be. Some of TFC's games, I haven't even realized they were on until the day after, this would NEVER happen before this year. I'm probably only going to two more games this year. I have spent about 20K on TFC seats lifetime, but I really think I may give them up next year.

Twenty thousand dollars.I just feel like such a putz as an SSH.

Glad TFC have won a few games, but don't really care about the on field results right now. These are all exhibition games. Ex the CCL I guess, but even then, really?

Suds
07-28-2012, 07:13 AM
I'm an athletic supporter!


Uh, wait a minute :confused:

:leaving:

Cashcleaner
07-28-2012, 08:53 AM
I'm a supporter of the team's 28 players, coaches, trainers, and support staff. This group, collectively, is called the team. However, I distrust and have very little regard for the parent corporation which owns and oversees the team.

Unfortunately, due to work and family commitments I haven't been to a live game in over a year, whereas for the first two seasons I was at BMO Field for every home game. Luckily, I've been able to watch most games on tv with friends and family, so it's not a total loss. If anything I guess you could classify me as a Supporter-On-Remote.

tiberius
07-28-2012, 11:48 AM
After reading so much negativity towards a team that this board has been dedicated to, I pose a genuine question to ALL... what kind of supporter are YOU?


I am a 6 year fan/supporter who is currently in recovery. I am taking each day, one day at a time. I was looking for a strong, positive relationship with a soccer organization and I have had to settle for a relationship with an extremely high turnover set of players. I am a numbed, shell shocked victim of Anselmi, Bierne and Cochrane. I have not fully recovered from the shock and awe produced from the staggering abusive clusterfuck these guys have produced.

I am a 75 mile bastard who held seasons for quite a few years and went to most games. I'm still a bastardg:D, but I watch most games on TV and computer, and only catch a few games at BMO, at really great discount prices. For me, as Kevv said above, the investment is about emotion and time, not the price of tickets. Pricing became a factor for me as seat prices rose, and Anselmi & Co. blundered in and inadvertently wiped out the aftermarket for tickets. After a while, I simply couldn't justify to myself, or to my CEO (wife:)), having to continually eat the whole (high) cost for games I could not attend.

I am a fan who was forced by Anselmi & Co. to switch my focus from enjoying the team and the soccer, to trying to figure out how not to lose $100's of dollars in tickets that I couldn't use or recycle. It was an emotional and traumatic time as I parted with my season tickets - something I didn't want to do, and something that I thought would change, in a bad way, my identity as a strong fan/supporter of the team. I had a dependency problem - I didn't see how I could make it without my season tickets. I was wrong. By creating some emotional distance from the clusterfuck organization, it has done wonders for me. I still love the team, see almost every game and go to any game I want to at at least half the price. (my favourite is $12 for a pair of reds in 124 - you just can't beat it!) I have no tickets to get rid of, and no regret from dollars wasted on tickets I have to eat. I sit where ever the hell I want at BMO field. Anselmi & Co. used to have their greasy, filthy fingers in my pockets, firmly wrapped around my conjones. I am am free now! In your face MoFo Anselmi!

I am a fan who has yet to have a Toronto player I didn't like (...except Mista..) I do enjoy the odd rant targeted on the plumbers and prima donnas of the team. I think it is OK for us to moan a bit about the Garcia's, the Barrett's, the Harden's, the Dunfields and the DeGuzmans. I think it is OK to put a pirate hat on Mariner's head and laugh at his antics on the sideline. (Giving a big fuck you gesture to the whole west stands is my favouriteg:D) The humour and rants on this forum are coping mechanisms to help us through an extraordinarily pathetic, unnecessary and certainly undeserved situation that we have been handed. Underneath, the player rants are mostly about being pissed at the situation of being overly reliant on the plumber, or the negative effects that the prima donna's contract is having on the team - the guys themselves are fine - they are family. Just like we might mumble a bit about what the dopey brother-in-law has done this time, or what your snippy mother-in-law said last weekend - it is normal and natural - its family.

I am a recovering season ticket holder who will get seasons again, but there is no need right now - I will buy back in, in a few years, if and when it becomes necessary to do so.

I am a Toronto FC fan that believes, and has experienced, that every dog has his day, and what goes around comes around. I think the judgment day is almost upon us - when seat renewals arrive (finally!). I do not believe that TFC's desperate marketing to soccer moms, valley girls, flying pigs and travelzooers is going to end well for them. I am a Toronto FC fan who firmly believes that the four horses of the apocalypse will ride in within a year or so, and carry off the three stooges, all of their baggage and all the effing useless minions. How is that for positive thinking!!
:hump::drum:

tiberius
07-28-2012, 12:26 PM
After reading so much negativity towards a team that this board has been dedicated to, I pose a genuine question to ALL... what kind of supporter are YOU?

This in a battlefield, and is not meant for everyone to attack each other.

I am home-town, Toronto for Life, win, lose or draw. I will stand by and support this club through all the turmoil. I will forever be optimistic, and give the team a chance to show improvement in times of change. I sometimes watch with a heavy heart at disappointing results, but I cheer the fact we HAVE a team to cheer FOR. Mistakes have been made, and more will follow. My support, is unconditional.

Jason points out an unusual situation - even when things have turned around with several wins in a row, there appears to be a disproportionate amount of negativity on the forum. Usually winning takes the heat off players and coaches... and the FO. Why hasn't this happened? Why is everyone (me) still picking on poor "sunshine" T-boy? Are RPB's and the non-member guest posters just a bunch of negative, downbeat folk? A bunch of Eeyore's? Debbie Downers? Does the RPB membership kit need to include Prozac? Does the season ticket package need to come with a big warning label, saying that membership may/will cause depression?

Kaz
07-28-2012, 04:04 PM
The Issue Pookie is that there is no thought about benefit of the doubt, it's assumed instantly that the FO screwed up.

We don't know the whole story most of the time, and we are relying on sources that may have accurate out come but no so much accurate reasons.

Look at Plata. He left, was in Ecuador, and Earl was saying as of today he is still a TFC player.

Thus Earl is a joke, and he doesn't know what is happening and the deal is obviously is being done.

Instead of, The deal clearly hasn't be finalized, Plata hasn't been cleared to leave, and what he has done is wrong. But we aren't looking to kill the kids career, and we think he may have been given bad advise and we don't want to penalize him for his mistake so we are still finishing the deal, and we still think he could be a valuable asset down the road.

Earl's statement was a very diplomatic way of saying Plata is acting on his own, and we aren't happy. Mariners comments were less diplomatic but still not so bad. Yet the board went into a frenzy and I don't think I saw a single comment that maybe this is Plata's peoples error and the FO is trying to be diplomatic.

And I think that is what most of us mean by the negativity. So many aren't supporters any more they are critics, who go to the game to be seen.

tiberius
07-28-2012, 06:30 PM
The Issue Pookie is that there is no thought about benefit of the doubt, it's assumed instantly that the FO screwed up.

Look at Plata....

Earl's statement...

Mariners comments...

You are absolutely right Kaz - the benefit of the doubt is long, long gone - in fact reasonable doubt is gone too. Look at the scorecard over 5 1/2 years. How many players has spit out a pile of lies? Now, how many times have we been fed a pile of horseshit by management and the FO? Second, look at the motivation of players vs. management and F.O. Who has better motive to lie, twist the truth, hide behind politics? Third, who has the better opportunity to feed spin, party line, bs etc??

Lets recap - we have motive, opportunity and a criminal record as long as your arm. So... the next time someone steals your lunch, who's door are you going to knock on to see if they are inside eating your lunch?

From the way you worded you post, you clearly swallowed the FO's spin. I'd be the first to admit that it is a judgment call, as to who to believe, but most of us have learned (over time) to spit out dogshit rather than swallow it. You will get there too... it just takes time...

[NBF]
07-28-2012, 08:39 PM
I'm surprised no one has made the correlation between this thread and this English classic:

Z_8JLkwzpd0

Now that I have your attention, I'm going to mention that I am a disenfranchised fan, because we need a better squad but the team is being held hostage by people who are absent minded. Its comical how this team has better support than New York and L.A. combined and yet the team is ran so arrogantly that you cant help but think it resembles a circus show.

narduch
07-28-2012, 08:52 PM
Jason points out an unusual situation - even when things have turned around with several wins in a row, there appears to be a disproportionate amount of negativity on the forum. Usually winning takes the heat off players and coaches... and the FO. Why hasn't this happened? Why is everyone (me) still picking on poor "sunshine" T-boy? Are RPB's and the non-member guest posters just a bunch of negative, downbeat folk? A bunch of Eeyore's? Debbie Downers? Does the RPB membership kit need to include Prozac? Does the season ticket package need to come with a big warning label, saying that membership may/will cause depression?

My theory is that we are a damaged and broken down fanbase. 6 years of this bullshit has left most of us cynical and jaded. That's not going to change over night.

So the team goes on a decent run, and a lot of us have seen this same story before. And so we are tempering our expectations.

This team will have to go on a long sustained run of excellence now to even have a chance to win back its 2007 level fanbase. Even that is a question mark, in my opinion.

Kaz
07-28-2012, 09:15 PM
You are absolutely right Kaz - the benefit of the doubt is long, long gone - in fact reasonable doubt is gone too. Look at the scorecard over 5 1/2 years. How many players has spit out a pile of lies? Now, how many times have we been fed a pile of horseshit by management and the FO? Second, look at the motivation of players vs. management and F.O. Who has better motive to lie, twist the truth, hide behind politics? Third, who has the better opportunity to feed spin, party line, bs etc??

Lets recap - we have motive, opportunity and a criminal record as long as your arm. So... the next time someone steals your lunch, who's door are you going to knock on to see if they are inside eating your lunch?

From the way you worded you post, you clearly swallowed the FO's spin. I'd be the first to admit that it is a judgment call, as to who to believe, but most of us have learned (over time) to spit out dogshit rather than swallow it. You will get there too... it just takes time...


I didn't swallow anything. The whole period seemed to be odd. Mariner isn't a spin guy and so I trust his responses, particularly when he's caught off guard like that. His comments seems to be very honest. There has since been talk that Plata didn't seem to feel he should have to fight that he was a starter no matter what. (I don't know how much truth is in that, I'm sure people need to fight in South America too). Plata cleared out his locker said goodbye, and Mariner seemed caught of guard.

MLSE has in recent years not announced things before they are totally finished.

Everything that happened in that seemed to suggest that there was a two way issue.


The Nesta issue seemed to be almost all MLSE, the Centre Back issues are MLSE.

I see a different in the way different people do things, I don't hold Mariner to the same suspicion that I did Preki. I give the coach the benefit of the doubt, because I support the team. Mariner has not done anything to suggest he's done anything underhanded. Only conspiracy theorist are out there thinking other wise.

jazzy
07-28-2012, 09:55 PM
[QUOTE=TOBOR THE GREAT !;1516501]I don`t think mods should be allowed to participate in threads at all.

I think they should punch in and moderate. ID Moderator 1, Moderator 2, etc. Observe without commenting, stepping in as required.

Want to participate in the thread ? Log in as yourself.

Doing both at the same time lends power and authority to an opinion, regardless of it's merit.

I think the two should be separated.

^this is so simple and well thought out ,...it's getting way to logical around here.....where's the negativity......?.....talk about hijacking a thread ,...lol.......give me a moment to remember the boring team I was watching today, to bring the thread back to it's naturally negative tone and to remember Mariner's FO puckering "no comment" on thurs soccer show about the Mellberg incident and I'll insert the expected negativity......said the tired of been taken as a lemming ,...supporter. ( or shall I say PAYING supporter )....I pay so I demand transparency in how my club is run....and a reason our team is basically minor league,....if I am expected to PAY for the privileged!

tiberius
07-28-2012, 10:06 PM
...I don't hold Mariner to the same suspicion that I did Preki. I give the coach the benefit of the doubt, because I support the team. Mariner has not done anything to suggest he's done anything underhanded. Only conspiracy theorist are out there thinking other wise.

Agreed. Mariner's situation is only guilt by association, at this point. Just because you hang out with gangsters, doesn't mean you are a gangster, yourself.

I gotta admit, Capt. Jack is slowly growing on me - I kinda like the fella so far. His signature black shorts are making Angus jealous!

http://api.ning.com/files/DsCKyZTEAox-oubsBF5zwmFjgjCvguWIfpxEg3KBK3DKiiKu0bOucWgJyUoSWc UnBrQk*hQFnRG0dro*W5ouuOzR2n-XyO6j/acdc.jpg

narduch
07-29-2012, 09:23 AM
I see you have been banned now. That's how this place seems to work.

I agree with what you say. In my opinion RPB is falling apart. Too much hostility towards the people who made them relevant in the first place.

The funny thing is if you read his most recent posts, he appears to be a positive contributor to the discussions he is involved with.

But I guess if you cross one certain rogue mod you get banned.

Shakes McQueen
07-29-2012, 09:27 AM
He requested to be banned from the site. He wasn't banned reactively, for saying anything.

- Scott

Shakes McQueen
07-29-2012, 09:43 AM
The funny thing is if you read his most recent posts, he appears to be a positive contributor to the discussions he is involved with.

But I guess if you cross one certain rogue mod you get banned.

If you have a complaint, take it to another moderator, or up the food chain to the executive, as has already been pointed out twice by myself and TOBOR. Keep the public passive aggressive swipes at Denime to either yourself, or private messages.

And Chris Wren, I suggest checking your PMs, if you haven't already.

- Scott

narduch
07-29-2012, 09:54 AM
If you have a complaint, take it to another moderator, or up the food chain to the executive, as has already been pointed out twice by myself and TOBOR. Keep the public passive aggressive swipes at Denime to either yourself, or private messages.

And Chris Wren, I suggest checking your PMs, if you haven't already.

- Scott

I have, and no one seems to care.

That's it for me on this issue.

It is what it is. The rest of us that want to discuss the team need to learn to live with it.

Shakes McQueen
07-29-2012, 10:05 AM
I have, and no one seems to care.

No, I recall a few months ago, you multi-addressing a PM to a bunch of moderators about a warning you received from Denime. I then recall myself saying I would inquire about the reason for the warning, which I did. It was discussed, and nothing was "rescinded", because warnings aren't actual infractions to begin with - they are literally just a warning.

If you were unsatisfied with this, then you should go higher up the chain, which you have not. It does not entitle you to take passive-aggressive swipes at the moderators. You are ultimately a guest here, as a non-member.

If you desire to discuss this further, then I suggest PMing me.

- Scott

narduch
07-29-2012, 10:10 AM
No, I recall a few months ago, you multi-addressing a PM to a bunch of moderators about a warning you received from Denime. I then recall myself saying I would inquire about the reason for the warning, which I did. It was discussed, and nothing was "rescinded", because warnings aren't actual infractions to begin with - they are literally just a warning.

If you were unsatisfied with this, then you should go higher up the chain, which you have not. It does not entitle you to take passive-aggressive swipes at the moderators. You are ultimately a guest here, as a non-member.

If you desire to discuss this further, then I suggest PMing me.

- Scott

I just want to know that the mod in question isn't allowed be be belligerent to other posters anymore, which obviously isn't the case from the stories of other posters.

Don't feel the need to take this to PMs because people should now that one mod is allowed to be a dick to other posters, with the tacit approval of the rest of the moderating team.

Wagner
07-29-2012, 04:08 PM
If anyone wants to PM me or Phil with any questions about behind the scenes stuff, do it up.

Chris Wren
07-29-2012, 04:24 PM
I just want to know that the mod in question isn't allowed be be belligerent to other posters anymore, which obviously isn't the case from the stories of other posters.

Don't feel the need to take this to PMs because people should now that one mod is allowed to be a dick to other posters, with the tacit approval of the rest of the moderating team.

Exactly. Why should this sort of stuff be hidden?

Chris Wren
07-29-2012, 04:29 PM
No, I recall a few months ago, you multi-addressing a PM to a bunch of moderators about a warning you received from Denime. I then recall myself saying I would inquire about the reason for the warning, which I did. It was discussed, and nothing was "rescinded", because warnings aren't actual infractions to begin with - they are literally just a warning.

If you were unsatisfied with this, then you should go higher up the chain, which you have not. It does not entitle you to take passive-aggressive swipes at the moderators. You are ultimately a guest here, as a non-member.

If you desire to discuss this further, then I suggest PMing me.

- Scott


So sick of this guest B.S. You want to have an iron fist on this forum? Make it members only. You don't want to make it members only? Then enough with the passive aggressive establishment of hierarchy.

Shakes McQueen
07-29-2012, 05:37 PM
So sick of this guest B.S. You want to have an iron fist on this forum? Make it members only. You don't want to make it members only? Then enough with the passive aggressive establishment of hierarchy.

Our decision to open certain sections of the forum to the public does not change your "guest" status here, nor does it allow you to abuse the rules. It has nothing to do with "iron fist" ruling, or "establishment of hierarchy". so spare me the dramatics.

If you want to actually address your concerns, you've been told what to do. If you want to be a self-appointed, completely ineffectual, martyr for perceived injustices, please continue.

- Scott

TFCknw
07-29-2012, 05:51 PM
Just close this board to your members. I come on here to read about TFC but every few pages all I am reading is threats from mods to registered users that they will get banned. You can't have it both ways. It's like a police state. A few years ago there was a group of Man U people that were on here all the time. I had the opportunity to read that a certain mod "baited" them and now they were to be banned for good. It's gone downhill since then. There is no humour here. If it's open to the public, great. Less moderation is better. iTS THE INTERNETS lol. Otherwise, this place has become the most uninviting place to read about TFC.

Shakes McQueen
07-29-2012, 06:34 PM
Just close this board to your members. I come on here to read about TFC but every few pages all I am reading is threats from mods to registered users that they will get banned. You can't have it both ways. It's like a police state. A few years ago there was a group of Man U people that were on here all the time. I had the opportunity to read that a certain mod "baited" them and now they were to be banned for good. It's gone downhill since then. There is no humour here. If it's open to the public, great. Less moderation is better. iTS THE INTERNETS lol. Otherwise, this place has become the most uninviting place to read about TFC.

Every few pages? With the exception of this thread (which also, coincidentally, does not feature any "threats"), we barely even discuss bannings or infractions publicly

"It's like a police state" is just insulting to people who live in actual police states. Since I joined the mod team, we've averaged about one permanent ban every 1.5 months, one of which was an advertising account for Samsung, and we've averaged about the same for temporary (1 week/30 day) bans. We issue MAYBE 3-4 infractions a month, sometimes less.

Discuss football without being a disagreeable asshole, and while respecting our rules, and we don't have a problem. If someone threatens you with a ban despite observing the rules, then come to me, and I will do whatever it takes to get the situation resolved.

Reminding people that they are guests here - meaning they aren't members, and don't pay for the upkeep or administration of our forum - is not the same as threatening them with a ban. We have plenty of well-known registered users who are able to conduct themselves just fine, and have been for years. It isn't exactly a high bar to get over.

Public tirades against the moderators/executive are a violation of Article 7, and grounds for a temporary ban. If you have a complaint, go through the appropriate channels, and it will be handled. No one should feel bullied or trolled by a moderator, and if you are, calmly PM myself or someone else the details, and I will see that it gets to the right eyes.

As for your Man Utd story - I vaguely recall that stuff, but it was a couple of years ago, and long before I was ever a mod, so I'm in no position to comment.

Being repeatedly called an authoritarian dictator when I do my best behind the scenes to represent users and members alike, gets really old.

- Scott

TFCknw
07-29-2012, 06:46 PM
You would be the last person I would PM. Being politcally correct gets very old too.

CLOSE MY ACCOUNT.

Thanks

kitty

Shakes McQueen
07-29-2012, 06:51 PM
Yes, that's the reasonable response to everything I said above. You seem to be confusing an attempt at civility and understanding with "political correctness".

At any rate, your request is obliged.

- Scott

Pookie
07-29-2012, 06:58 PM
I may not have learned what kind of supporter I am but I did learn that moderating is a tough gig.

Keep the faith.

Chris Wren
07-29-2012, 08:15 PM
Close my account too.

This place has become a bunch of angry, humourless, self important snobs.

I'm quite content to cheer for my team and be a "casual".

tiberius
07-29-2012, 10:42 PM
Close my account too.

This place has become a bunch of angry, humourless, self important snobs.

I'm quite content to cheer for my team and be a "casual".

Thank you lord - this guy was like a tone deaf gnat, drumming in my ear!

jasonbanks
07-29-2012, 11:37 PM
Close my account too.

This place has become a bunch of angry, humourless, self important snobs.

I'm quite content to cheer for my team and be a "casual".

Amazing. I was so hopeful that this thread world remain civil. I really wanted to find out where people stood, as everyone knows the unbalanced level of negativity around here.

I believe I misunderstood what this supporters board is all about, and I have only myself to blame for that. Its one thing for the team to be the butt of jokes, I am used to that, I am a Leafs fan after all. However, I have found myself entering a world/culture all its own. I know who owns the Leafs, TFC, but I don't dwell on who the management is, as I am fan of the team, not the business.

Those who have chosen to not renew already, thank you. I would love to have some good options for relocation. I also thank you in that I will not have to listen to your overbearing negativity. If you are non-renewing because of your displeasure in management, you are flat out abandoning the team. You are abandoning those guys who are out there busting their asses to give you results. You are turning your back to Kosic, a man making a disgusting salary, to keep us even IN the standings. You are turning your back on all the academy kinds coming up. You are turning your back on all everyone to spite guys in suits. Do you really thing that when our guys take the field, that your empty seat is going to IMPROVE the situation?

I know its hard to be jovial when things look grim, but this place has become so spiteful, the negativity has become a disease. This thread alone has caused two board participants to request banishment. The way words come from the group itself as we are simply visitors, allowed to participate, comes off as absolutely elitist whether you want to admit it or not. You might as well break out some RPB Members Only jackets.

With all due respect, I can no longer endure the bickering, negativity, resentment, and feeling of entitlement that this group appears to represent. I no longer wish to associate, or be associated with an environment that has itself become more negative that the issues with the team. You guys are the face of the fans, but when you turn your backs on the team, you do no one justice. You all complain how dysfunctional management is, yet the support the team is receiving is equally broken, perhaps more so because even with positive results, the environment remained negative. If you are only going to be a fan if the team is a top eight, turn in your scarf at the front gate, because the team does not need conditional fans.

The environment and attitude this forum represents does not represent me, and I feel does a disservice and casts an even more negative shadow on the team. So, with all due respect, I request my account be terminated.

- A Fan.

Jeffro
07-30-2012, 12:20 AM
Amazing. I was so hopeful that this thread world remain civil. I really wanted to find out where people stood, as everyone knows the unbalanced level of negativity around here.

I believe I misunderstood what this supporters board is all about, and I have only myself to blame for that. Its one thing for the team to be the butt of jokes, I am used to that, I am a Leafs fan after all. However, I have found myself entering a world/culture all its own. I know who owns the Leafs, TFC, but I don't dwell on who the management is, as I am fan of the team, not the business.

Those who have chosen to not renew already, thank you. I would love to have some good options for relocation. I also thank you in that I will not have to listen to your overbearing negativity. If you are non-renewing because of your displeasure in management, you are flat out abandoning the team. You are abandoning those guys who are out there busting their asses to give you results. You are turning your back to Kosic, a man making a disgusting salary, to keep us even IN the standings. You are turning your back on all the academy kinds coming up. You are turning your back on all everyone to spite guys in suits. Do you really thing that when our guys take the field, that your empty seat is going to IMPROVE the situation?

I know its hard to be jovial when things look grim, but this place has become so spiteful, the negativity has become a disease. This thread alone has caused two board participants to request banishment. The way words come from the group itself as we are simply visitors, allowed to participate, comes off as absolutely elitist whether you want to admit it or not. You might as well break out some RPB Members Only jackets.

With all due respect, I can no longer endure the bickering, negativity, resentment, and feeling of entitlement that this group appears to represent. I no longer wish to associate, or be associated with an environment that has itself become more negative that the issues with the team. You guys are the face of the fans, but when you turn your backs on the team, you do no one justice. You all complain how dysfunctional management is, yet the support the team is receiving is equally broken, perhaps more so because even with positive results, the environment remained negative. If you are only going to be a fan if the team is a top eight, turn in your scarf at the front gate, because the team does not need conditional fans.

The environment and attitude this forum represents does not represent me, and I feel does a disservice and casts an even more negative shadow on the team. So, with all due respect, I request my account be terminated.

- A Fan.

I would give it some more time Jason, I relate to a lot of what you say in your post, and there are many members here who are not on the front lines of this board day in, day out, bickering about petty things. I get annoyed with the crap on here too, but you learn to sift through it and ignore the trolls. If you came to this board looking for likeminded supporters, they are here, you might find a lot of us at Shoeless, or tailgates, or in 112, it can be difficult to see anything but negativity on the boards sometimes.

__wowza
07-30-2012, 12:40 AM
So sick of this guest B.S. You want to have an iron fist on this forum? Make it members only. You don't want to make it members only? Then enough with the passive aggressive establishment of hierarchy.

iron fist? police state? if you even knew the state of some of the other forums i've been around on. i was banned on bigsoccer for giving my side of a TFC traveling supporters tussle (which simply stated that it was a clusterfuck, we had drunken fans and the security let us out too early). i was then threatened with a ban after signing up again trying to organize hosting the dallas/colorado fans for the MLS cup because they thought i was organizing an ambush. the victory forum will ban you if you disagree with a mod because a moderator to them means that youre pretty much attacking an unpaid volunteer. i spent a great deal of time on this board under a separate account and not once was i threatened or given an infraction for speaking my mind because i was civil about it. i dont know, i dont get any of this.


Being politcally correct gets very old too.

you'd think so, but there's so many of us who play by that rule.
tobor, i know you think the mods should log in and switch into work mode, but if you guys only knew the number of times i had purposely held my tongue.. that is.. purposely denied speaking my mind on a subject i actually cared about and had something to say about, all because it would look like i was "abusing my authority" or participating in a "mod pile-on" it would blow your mind.

if anything, i feel like i've had less freedom and more cause for putting myself in a positions i honestly don't want to be in (i never used to look in post-game threads after a loss) since becoming a mod, but i do it to the best of my ability so i can make this board a more friendly and inviting place. if i, or any of the mods don't fit that criteria for you, take it up with the rest of us.


Close my account too.

This place has become a bunch of angry, humourless, self important snobs.

i've always felt it weird that people decide to make a statement like "close my account, this place fucking sucks!"
if you want to close your account, just PM a mod. i think i find it weird because you're using a board provided to you as a service by a bunch of people who work hard and are never thanked only to turn around and publicly declare that you no longer wish to be given this service for free by telling us what a bunch of assholes we are. not my way of handling things but to each their own.


Amazing. I was so hopeful that this thread world remain civil. I really wanted to find out where people stood, as everyone knows the unbalanced level of negativity around here.

I know its hard to be jovial when things look grim, but this place has become so spiteful, the negativity has become a disease. This thread alone has caused two board participants to request banishment. The way words come from the group itself as we are simply visitors, allowed to participate, comes off as absolutely elitist whether you want to admit it or not. You might as well break out some RPB Members Only jackets.

With all due respect, I can no longer endure the bickering, negativity, resentment, and feeling of entitlement that this group appears to represent. I no longer wish to associate, or be associated with an environment that has itself become more negative that the issues with the team. You guys are the face of the fans, but when you turn your backs on the team, you do no one justice.

The environment and attitude this forum represents does not represent me, and I feel does a disservice and casts an even more negative shadow on the team. So, with all due respect, I request my account be terminated.

- A Fan.

it was civil until a few people started chirping away about their thoughts of the way this group was run.
look, i don't know what to say to any of this. whenever i hear someone play the visitor card, it's normally by someone whose been spoken to by a mod and it's normally by a mod reminding them that they're using a forum for free that's being paid for by members of this group. no RPBs = no RPB forum. if you feel like going over to bigsoccer and dealing with their mod team, be my guest. you'll find it a lot harsher than the ship we're running here.

as for the whole just make it members only talk.. you may think that this we're elitist but the idea that you have no voice with us, as opposed to the allusion that you have no voice with us, is ridiculous. the fact that you wouldn't even have a place to post this if we made it members only is more elitist than anything, know that. you say we turn our backs on the fans, but i know at least 30 people by name that still show up to each game gripping their seasons seats hoping for better days. we're turning our backs on no one and if you'll watch the replays you'll find that the less and less vocal we are come gameday, the more the FO decides to flip to something more "interesting", like families, after we score.

the environment and attitude this forum represents doesn't represent you, nor does it represent the group (see that handy little blurb at the top about the stuff on here not reflecting the thoughts/feelings of the RPBs).. but if you feel like closing down your account because something here is so bad that you don't even want a screen name to be associated with you, then we can't stop you. i don't know. i just got in from a 4 hour flight which spent an hour taxi-ing on the runway, im too spent to post coherently.

TOBOR !
07-30-2012, 12:51 AM
OMG, the drama. People are committing message board suicide all over the place. Who cares ? Imagine I'm playing the violin... something melancholy. Get a grip, folks.

Shakes McQueen
07-30-2012, 03:23 AM
OMG, the drama. People are committing message board suicide all over the place. Who cares ? Imagine I'm playing the violin... something melancholy. Get a grip, folks.

A board-wide policy of "getting a grip" would certainly make my job a lot easier.

Anyway, to bring this thread back to it's actual title, I disagree with something you said jasonbanks:


If you are non-renewing because of your displeasure in management, you are flat out abandoning the team. You are abandoning those guys who are out there busting their asses to give you results. You are turning your back to Kosic, a man making a disgusting salary, to keep us even IN the standings. You are turning your back on all the academy kinds coming up. You are turning your back on all everyone to spite guys in suits.

Frankly, I think you're just wrong. Professional sports are ultimately a business, and all fans have is their wallets. If we had 100% ST renewal every year, despite the extreme cynicism about the front office, then what incentive do they have to listen to complaints?

It isn't turning your back on the players, to vote with your wallet. They will keep getting paid either way. We pay the highest ticket prices in the league, despite being a poor team pretty much since our inception. You don't have a "duty" as a fan, to keep paying them.

That said, I won't begrudge anyone who wants to keep going to games to support the team, regardless of results. I understand that viewpoint, even if I don't share it.

- Scott

khso11
07-30-2012, 03:40 AM
Close my account too.

This place has become a bunch of angry, humourless, self important snobs.

I'm quite content to cheer for my team and be a "casual".

Idk why are these ppl such trouble-makers, at the end of the day we are all here to support TFC, we are all here trying to get the news first, but do you know why we're here, it's because of these supporter groups!!! So pls, for ppl who is trying to act like its their right to be here, think again, it's like driving, it's a privilage!!!! And can we go back to the topic pls!!!!

tiberius
07-30-2012, 06:28 AM
I believe I misunderstood what this supporters board is all about, ...,

... This thread alone has caused two board participants to request banishment... The way words come from the group itself as we are simply visitors, allowed to participate, comes off as absolutely elitist whether you want to admit it or not. You might as well break out some RPB Members Only jackets.

I can no longer endure the ... feeling of entitlement that this group appears to represent...

I no longer wish to associate, or be associated with an environment that has itself become more negative that the issues with the team.

The environment and attitude this forum represents does not represent me...

So, with all due respect, I request my account be terminated.

- A Fan.

[WARNING: Going off topic...]

I couldn't figure out why there was something resonating with me about what Jason posted, since I disagreed with almost all of it. In the end, I figured it out...

When a poster has stepped over the civility line and is being chastised by fellow posters, RPB members or mods I think it is extremely important to never, ever (publicly or privately) play the members/guest card. The intervention by others is intended to impose civility, build a sense of community, and not let things descend into chaos - that is at the root of a moderated forum. Although factually true, pulling out the private board/membership trump card thingy adds nothing to the discussion and only sends most folk right over the edge. In fact, I would go so far as to suggest that introducing that power dynamic is uncivil, unnecessary, counter-productive and in the future should be frowned upon.

Please note that this is not meant as a criticism of what anyone has done in the past - I am not trying to open a discussion on this point. I am merely attempting to offer what I believe to be a positive suggestion to run up the pole to mods and RPB members to possibly consider (offline).

Overall mods are doing a good job on this forum - I have grown to appreciate the work they do - it is a challenging job, and the pay scale really sucks. These are challenging and difficult times for Toronto FC supporters and fans - we need to cut the moderators some slack, not slag them.

Many thanks to the RPB organization and the mods in particular for keeping the lights on, when it often seems like some idiot is trying to turn the lights off at the other end of the tunnel!

A JOB WELL DONE - THANK YOU!!

[back on topic...]

ensco
07-30-2012, 06:33 AM
I wonder if there is a "support group" for people who profess to hate the board, but can't stop coming here.

I hereby declare this condition to be "RPB Eff You Very Much Syndrome".

Shakes McQueen
07-30-2012, 07:07 AM
I appreciate your comments tiberius, but I would just clarify that the reminder that registered users are "guests" here is not utilized as a trump card of any sort. It's a reminder that this place exists first and foremost for the members of the RPB, and while we welcome non-member TFC fans to come and be part of the community, they inherently have less rope when it comes to slagging the executive, the moderators, or the group.

If someone comes into your home and starts slagging the decor, I don't think it's out of line to politely remind them that they are a guest. If it sends them over the edge.. whose problem is that?

The aim is never to wield that reminder as a cudgel, and if it comes off that way, I apologize.

- Scott

Shakes McQueen
07-30-2012, 07:13 AM
I wonder if there is a "support group" for people who profess to hate the board, but can't stop coming here.

I hereby declare this condition to be "RPB Eff You Very Much Syndrome".

I know of a few people who have been banned for a while now, that still occasionally tweet or facebook about this place. It's an obsession.

- Scott

Pookie
07-30-2012, 08:12 AM
Calling folks out that decide to not renew is one of the strangest things I have read. Not many of these people that aren't renewing are saying they are turning their back on the team. The fact that many of us continue to put our money, time and effort into the Red Patch Boys whose Charter is to promote Football/TFC and encourage like minded individuals to join shows where our alliances are.

Season tickets for me has become a logical decision. A STH doesn't buy them to be a "better fan" than the guy next to him. He buys them because he has the time and means to to go to every game. He wants to guarantee a seat at all events and wants to buy in bulk to ensure that he is saving some money along the way.

In the world that MLSE has created, is there a concern about ticket scarcity? If you wanted to go to every game and didn't have season tickets, you could. Not just this year. Not since the year before. For 3 seasons now, I have picked up extra tickets, to add to the season tickets I had, to any game I wanted and not one was above face value.

So, the motivation or value in holding season tickets is gone. I can get to every game and based on Tom's Supply and Demand theory, supply outpaces demand and therefore prices fall. I can get to every game. I can do it cheaper than I can by buying from the Front Office and if ticket scarcity ever becomes an issue again, I can opt back in for season tickets since there is no wait list.

To those calling me, or others out for that decsion, why should I renew my season tickets? I'm not talking about not going. I'm talking about not having season tickets?

On many nights, that corner of the South Stand is the voice during CCL runs and hopeless regular season games. How many of those that are calling out the RPBs start chants in their sections? Make a banner? Organize and lead a march? You might not be happy with the direction, so great. Join in. Get involved and do something about it.

Shakes McQueen
07-30-2012, 08:23 AM
Calling folks out that decide to not renew is one of the strangest things I have read. Not many of these people that aren't renewing are saying they are turning their back on the team. The fact that many of us continue to put our money, time and effort into the Red Patch Boys whose Charter is to promote Football/TFC and encourage like minded individuals to join shows where our alliances are.

Season tickets for me has become a logical decision. A STH doesn't buy them to be a "better fan" than the guy next to him. He buys them because he has the time and means to to go to every game. He wants to guarantee a seat at all events and wants to buy in bulk to ensure that he is saving some money along the way.

In the world that MLSE has created, is there a concern about ticket scarcity? If you wanted to go to every game and didn't have season tickets, you could. Not just this year. Not since the year before. For 3 seasons now, I have picked up extra tickets, to add to the season tickets I had, to any game I wanted and not one was above face value.

So, the motivation or value in holding season tickets is gone. I can get to every game and based on Tom's Supply and Demand theory, supply outpaces demand and therefore prices fall. I can get to every game. I can do it cheaper than I can by buying from the Front Office and if ticket scarcity ever becomes an issue again, I can opt back in for season tickets since there is no wait list.

To those calling me, or others out for that decsion, why should I renew my season tickets? I'm not talking about not going. I'm talking about not having season tickets?

Amen.


On many nights, that corner of the South Stand is the voice during CCL runs and hopeless regular season games. How many of those that are calling out the RPBs start chants in their sections? Make a banner? Organize and lead a march? You might not be happy with the direction, so great. Join in. Get involved and do something about it.

Or sit in the peanut gallery, and insult or belittle the people who ARE involved. Seems to be a popular choice.

- Scott

Phil
07-30-2012, 08:27 AM
Well, we all have to look ourselves in the mirror and decide on what direction we want to go in.

I personally would never call anyone out for not renewing for the obvious reasons that Pookie has laid out. I do know that I will continue to go to the games and do everything in my power to have people singing, chanting, drumming, waving flags, and making banners to support the team on the field.

Its a shame people have to put so much judgement and finger pointing into all this, it really isn't that complicated unless you want it to be. Along with that, I don't get the piont of trying to ruin everyone elses experience just because they may have made the decision to walk away.

jasonbanks
07-30-2012, 09:33 AM
Well, we all have to look ourselves in the mirror and decide on what direction we want to go in.

I personally would never call anyone out for not renewing for the obvious reasons that Pookie has laid out. I do know that I will continue to go to the games and do everything in my power to have people singing, chanting, drumming, waving flags, and making banners to support the team on the field.

Its a shame people have to put so much judgement and finger pointing into all this, it really isn't that complicated unless you want it to be. Along with that, I don't get the piont of trying to ruin everyone elses experience just because they may have made the decision to walk away.


To clarify, I am not intending to call out people. I am addressing the idealism about dropping seasons out of spite, out of protest. But, I don't wish to attack a person for their beliefs and feelings, and that is why I asked my account be closed as I feel I have crossed that line (or others feel I have, which is the same to me). Phil you said something very to the point, those who are choosing to walk away (or threats thereof) seemingly are so infuriated, they seem like they are trying to take others with them, salt the grounds.

I am a reasonable guy (I think), obviously we all do not share the same opinions and no group of individuals ever will.

Let me turn this around, because there has been enough f'ing negativity to last a lifetime.... as a commoner, I look up to you guys and the environment you create at the game. YOU GUYS are one of the biggest reasons I took on season tickets, because of the atmosphere YOU created. A Leafs game will never have the spark that a Toronto FC game has. Perhaps for us commoners, it was/is a mistake to look behind the curtain. The organized supporters are to me 50% (or more?) of the BMO experience. Even though this topic has gone to shit, let me say something that probably does not get said very often.. in addition to the guys on the field, I SUPPORT YOU and the efforts YOU take to make the BMO experience what it is. Going to BMO is more then watching soccer.. it's about being part of of it all.


So with great humbleness, I say THANK YOU to ALL OF YOU who have made the experience what it is. I shall be in my seats for as long as I can afford them.. and I will always look to the South, to the guys who have made BMO what it is.

Shakes McQueen
07-30-2012, 09:39 AM
I don't think you've crossed any line Jason. Far from it.

As I said in an earlier post - we can disagree, without being disagreeable. That is the crux of being a positive contributor to our conversations here, and your polite demeanor despite this minor difference of opinion epitomizes that.

Everything else you said, I more or less agree with.

- Scott

Dreadlocks
07-30-2012, 10:05 AM
So I posted earlier in the thread actually answering the question of the thread topic last week. Now I've come back this morning to see what everyone else has to say and the one thing that I have learned is that loosing really, really breeds negativity on all fronts!

I wonder how this thread would have turned out had the team been in first place.

Parkdale
07-30-2012, 07:32 PM
A few years ago there was a group of Man U people that were on here all the time. I had the opportunity to read that a certain mod "baited" them and now they were to be banned for good. It's gone downhill since then.


As for your Man Utd story - I vaguely recall that stuff, but it was a couple of years ago, and long before I was ever a mod, so I'm in no position to comment.

for the record, one of those guys hacked into a mod's account (mine, to be specific) and let the rest of their gang into to look around. Imagine their surprise when they found that there wasn't a big conspiracy! Everyone who broke in got banned, and in the end it led to their mass exodus (along with the closing of their self-declared 'moderation-free' gossip thread.)

in the end, they went and found somewhere more suited to their tastes. The ones who broke the rules were banned outright. Let's not try to paint that chapter as one that was brought on because a mod baited them - it just didn't happen that way

OgtheDim
07-31-2012, 09:25 PM
People bother to hack into an online message board just to see what is going on?

Some people really need to get a life.

brad
07-31-2012, 10:05 PM
for the record, one of those guys hacked into a mod's account (mine, to be specific) and let the rest of their gang into to look around. Imagine their surprise when they found that there wasn't a big conspiracy! Everyone who broke in got banned, and in the end it led to their mass exodus (along with the closing of their self-declared 'moderation-free' gossip thread.)

in the end, they went and found somewhere more suited to their tastes. The ones who broke the rules were banned outright. Let's not try to paint that chapter as one that was brought on because a mod baited them - it just didn't happen that way

I was on that thread. I'm not familiar with the hacking bit - but there was a seperate issue where a mod that frequented the thread of a rival team did stir the pot up a lot. Defiantly crossed the line from what I recall.

And some of those folks, including one of the founding members of this group left for reasons related to real world issues with the group - not message board drama.

AL-MO
07-31-2012, 10:52 PM
Figures a thread about the kind of Supporter you are turns into a discussion about this message board. LOL

I am a supporter for 90 minutes of every game. I don't think I need to explain much more, especially to those who know me.

I try to worry about shit that I can actually control. (us as supporters in the stands)

Wull
08-02-2012, 10:10 AM
I'm the kind of supporter that shows up with 5000 other hardy souls and loses his voice cheering them on to one of the biggest scorelines in club history!

Technorgasm
08-02-2012, 10:14 AM
I'm the kind of supporter that shows up with 5000 other hardy souls and loses his voice cheering them on to one of the biggest scorelines in club history!

fuck ya. . . .
you know its not all doom and gloom, I would say the majority of the major contributors here are positive, supportive, welcoming folks.

I support TFC sure. . . but I support the lads more than them, thats my philosophy.
Being a footy supporter all my life its easy to see. . the team changes, the supporters stay the same.
Its an abusive relationship.
So suck it up, and share some constructive insight. . . there are plenty of areas of the internet far better suited to flame wars.
I'm here to talk footy, to talk TFC and stay connected to soem of my favorite peeps.

ps
#MARINERGETSSHITDONE!

Super
08-02-2012, 10:36 AM
I honestly do not understand people who will go and watch, and support, the team NO MATTER WHAT. It makes absolutely no sense to me. To me there is a difference between the CLUB and the TEAM. How many different line-ups have we had since day one? Tons! Still the same club, though. I don't go to BMO to support Dunfield. I go to support Toronto FC - because it's my club. The players are playing for our club. When they are shit it's important that we make it known. We need to tell the team, and the FO, to not humiliate our jersey. Simple as that.

I admit that I'm weak against local football, so I go to the games, but I understand that the only way to truly force through change with this club is by NOT GOING. By not giving TFC any money - until they stop humiliating the club and its supporters. Don't forget: the FO will stay in power as long as the club is profitable, so I'm happy to see low attendance right now. May they continue to drop until the humiliation stops. I remember being 0-8 at home and still hearing people chant love songs to the team that quite frankly fucked up our entire season with their embarrassingly poor performance. Let's not idolize the players like we're 12 year old girls at a Backstreet Boys concert, please. Let's live the game, and react to the game, and to the players, as supporters of this club who DEMAND heart and effort. I can't blame people for not wanting to sit through more humiliation. Things have improved under Mariner, yes, but the FO fucked up the entire season by reacting to Winters incompetence waaaaay too late. So the nice results as of late are meaningless. Much like the seasons have been since day one.

__wowza
08-02-2012, 11:23 AM
Let's not idolize the players like we're 12 year old girls at a Backstreet Boys concert, please. Let's live the game, and react to the game, and to the players, as supporters of this club who DEMAND heart and effort. I can't blame people for not wanting to sit through more humiliation. Things have improved under Mariner, yes, but the FO fucked up the entire season by reacting to Winters incompetence waaaaay too late. So the nice results as of late are meaningless. Much like the seasons have been since day one.

i'd like to counter this argument, not necessarily because i disagree with it, but because it's something i myself have been on the fence about. players react differently to different situations. sometimes it fires them up, sometimes it shatters their confidence.

take a player like ryan johnson for example, there's two routes you can go..
it's either we cheer him on and give him a "you'll do better next time" or
we can say "give us one reason why you should be on this team!"

it's up to him how he'll react, but as far as i'm concerned, i'm not going to games to be pissed off. i'll react when appropriate, but i'll always try and do it proactively. as of late, i haven't seen too many players hotdogging on the field. it's not like JDG where they aren't giving their full effort. the players seem to be reacting positively to the changes as of late (ie: more points and goals). we should react with them on a game-by-game basis and as a whole as it pertains to the future, not the past. i won't hound them retroactively for the 0-8 start, because the second they start thinking the line i just bolded, is the second they shouldn't even take to the pitch.

Super
08-02-2012, 11:57 AM
i'd like to counter this argument, not necessarily because i disagree with it, but because it's something i myself have been on the fence about. players react differently to different situations. sometimes it fires them up, sometimes it shatters their confidence.

take a player like ryan johnson for example, there's two routes you can go..
it's either we cheer him on and give him a "you'll do better next time" or
we can say "give us one reason why you should be on this team!"

it's up to him how he'll react, but as far as i'm concerned, i'm not going to games to be pissed off. i'll react when appropriate, but i'll always try and do it proactively. as of late, i haven't seen too many players hotdogging on the field. it's not like JDG where they aren't giving their full effort. the players seem to be reacting positively to the changes as of late (ie: more points and goals). we should react with them on a game-by-game basis and as a whole as it pertains to the future, not the past. i won't hound them retroactively for the 0-8 start, because the second they start thinking the line i just bolded, is the second they shouldn't even take to the pitch.

All I'm saying is that I don't want to be a useful idiot for this club. I'm not going to get slapped in the face, say thank you, and then ask for more. At the end of the day we're paying customers, and TFC treats us as such, and personally I've rarely seen crowd support translate into results. Support may equal a 12th man, but only if the team (read: players) give a shit. I remember thousands of us going to Columbus, and the lads just dropped the game with little to no effort with 3000 supporters backing them. At this point the season is over (even though, yes, we still have Champs to play for) but I want it seriously understood by FO and the players that we're VERY upset with the way they fucked up the season. To me it's sort of like a cheating wife that's been forgiven expects there to be love, love, love right around the corner when they don't cheat for a few months. Nope. Not gonna happen. TFC needs to earn our respect back, and they can start doing that by not humiliating us again. I'm not expecting titles here, just don't humiliate us time and time again.

So yeah, let's not be useful idiots. Let's expect something from this team. Let's not pack BMO and TFC's wallet (players get the same salary regardless). A win in Chicago is up next - and I EXPECT a win! Or at the very least for our guys to be so fired up that they'll bloody well near die trying. That's how professionals act. If any player is upset that we're not packing the house when they've fucked up the year, then BYE BYE. Don't let the door hit you on the way out. Play with pride. Give all. And own up to the responsibility of fucking up the season - and don't expect to be treated like champs because we won 3 in a row (when it's meaningless anyway). We couple expectation with our dollars and maybe, just maybe, we'll actually get a proper football team out of TFC in the next couple of years. Maybe even compete for a play-off spot. Maybe.

Fort York Redcoat
08-02-2012, 12:15 PM
I'm not sure if you have to convince a lot of people to not go to games. Our teams attendance looks plenty responsive. There is room for those that will go regardless.

I don't see the hurt you intend to put on TFC's pockets. They're pretty deep and have a surplus running from years gone by. And that's just from a Toronto perspective. Look at the league. Look at Dallas. The numbers can go pretty low and the results can come back without the fairweather fans returning.

I'm not going to try to keep anyone from going to games. It's not the type of support I like and doesn't help IMO.

Super
08-02-2012, 12:31 PM
I'm not sure if you have to convince a lot of people to not go to games. Our teams attendance looks plenty responsive. There is room for those that will go regardless.

I don't see the hurt you intend to put on TFC's pockets. They're pretty deep and have a surplus running from years gone by. And that's just from a Toronto perspective. Look at the league. Look at Dallas. The numbers can go pretty low and the results can come back without the fairweather fans returning.

I'm not going to try to keep anyone from going to games. It's not the type of support I like and doesn't help IMO.

No, you are correct that supporters shouldn't try and keep people from going to the games. I'm always working hard to bring guys to the field, but it's hard to get them to go again when TFC continues to disappoint. It's humiliating quite frankly. All I'm saying is that we shouldn't be disappointed with the attendance last night. It's a natural result of a poor season. Personally it makes a lot more sense than packing the house when we're losing. But having said that, I said earlier in this thread that I'm weak in the face of local football, so I continue to go. But I understand why a lot of people don't - and I'm not going to call them fairweather fans or part-time supporters. They've just had enough with the amateur FO that runs this club, and I certainly can't blame them. Wouldn't be any different anywhere else in the world. Some places you'd have riots after the sort of years we've had.

ag futbol
08-02-2012, 12:37 PM
I honestly do not understand people who will go and watch, and support, the team NO MATTER WHAT. It makes absolutely no sense to me. To me there is a difference between the CLUB and the TEAM. How many different line-ups have we had since day one? Tons! Still the same club, though. I don't go to BMO to support Dunfield. I go to support Toronto FC - because it's my club. The players are playing for our club. When they are shit it's important that we make it known. We need to tell the team, and the FO, to not humiliate our jersey. Simple as that.

I admit that I'm weak against local football, so I go to the games, but I understand that the only way to truly force through change with this club is by NOT GOING. By not giving TFC any money - until they stop humiliating the club and its supporters. Don't forget: the FO will stay in power as long as the club is profitable, so I'm happy to see low attendance right now. May they continue to drop until the humiliation stops. I remember being 0-8 at home and still hearing people chant love songs to the team that quite frankly fucked up our entire season with their embarrassingly poor performance. Let's not idolize the players like we're 12 year old girls at a Backstreet Boys concert, please. Let's live the game, and react to the game, and to the players, as supporters of this club who DEMAND heart and effort. I can't blame people for not wanting to sit through more humiliation. Things have improved under Mariner, yes, but the FO fucked up the entire season by reacting to Winters incompetence waaaaay too late. So the nice results as of late are meaningless. Much like the seasons have been since day one.
I agree with this. I’ll always be inclined to support the local team, but my degree of support (or rather spending) will depend on how the team is managed over the long run. That’s not to say I expect to make the playoffs every year or not suffer some setbacks, but overall I’d just like to see things handled in a professional and straightforward manner.

Basically my lowered set of expectations for this team is for us to occasionally be competitive and be stuck somewhere around midtable. Kind of sad considering we are capable of a lot more, but when you’ve been locked in the basement and fed nothing but bread crumbs for 6 years, being average starts to sound pretty good.

Shakes McQueen
08-02-2012, 12:46 PM
All I'm saying is that I don't want to be a useful idiot for this club. I'm not going to get slapped in the face, say thank you, and then ask for more. At the end of the day we're paying customers, and TFC treats us as such, and personally I've rarely seen crowd support translate into results. Support may equal a 12th man, but only if the team (read: players) give a shit. I remember thousands of us going to Columbus, and the lads just dropped the game with little to no effort with 3000 supporters backing them. At this point the season is over (even though, yes, we still have Champs to play for) but I want it seriously understood by FO and the players that we're VERY upset with the way they fucked up the season. To me it's sort of like a cheating wife that's been forgiven expects there to be love, love, love right around the corner when they don't cheat for a few months. Nope. Not gonna happen. TFC needs to earn our respect back, and they can start doing that by not humiliating us again. I'm not expecting titles here, just don't humiliate us time and time again.

So yeah, let's not be useful idiots. Let's expect something from this team. Let's not pack BMO and TFC's wallet (players get the same salary regardless). A win in Chicago is up next - and I EXPECT a win! Or at the very least for our guys to be so fired up that they'll bloody well near die trying. That's how professionals act. If any player is upset that we're not packing the house when they've fucked up the year, then BYE BYE. Don't let the door hit you on the way out. Play with pride. Give all. And own up to the responsibility of fucking up the season - and don't expect to be treated like champs because we won 3 in a row (when it's meaningless anyway). We couple expectation with our dollars and maybe, just maybe, we'll actually get a proper football team out of TFC in the next couple of years. Maybe even compete for a play-off spot. Maybe.

I think this is a fantastic rant, Super. Completely sums up my own feelings, too.

- Scott

Pookie
08-02-2012, 12:53 PM
I'm with some of you.

I don't believe in the management of this team and I want that changed.

That said, my decision to go or not go, is somewhat independent of whether Anselmi spends money on scouts. It does contribute to apathy however, the game day decision for me has come down to value.

In realizing that I am getting hosed on prices, relative to the MLS average, I am more critical about the decision to go. Throw in extra $ on CLL tickets, half a tank of gas, $20 for parking and modest concessions, I have to decide if it is worth it. To support TFC through both CCL games that's another $200+ . In previous years, I may have. Hell, I spent more in a single weekend to travel to road games with the team.

Now that I know how much they are overcharging me on a regular basis, I just can't help but feeling that I'm a sucker for dropping this cash on a continual basis. Not to mention the regular season MLS games that I haven't been able to resell when we couldn't go because of kids' soccer tournaments etc. Every game we miss is like another $100 out the window because you can't resell your ticket. Throw in the headaches of parking down there at this time of year and the decision to stay home, crack open a beer, have an evening swim with the kids and watch it on TV becomes the one that the financial analyst in me is very comfortable with.

Sort of like my decision with the Leafs. We used to go to a couple of games every year. Last year, we still got to a couple of games but they were all road games (Montreal, Tampa and Buffalo). The cost was less overall and the value and experience was much better.

It really has nothing to do with the players or "club". I'll still go to the Pub Crawls. I'll still sing and chant when we do go. I'll still contemplate road games.

We all have to live with our finances at the end of the day. Which I why I continually say that winning should not excuse high ticket prices. They are independent and very much in need of a price correction.

Drop my 2 North End seats by $450 which would bring them to the MLS average and then I would renew.

__wowza
08-02-2012, 01:03 PM
I think this is a fantastic rant, Super. Completely sums up my own feelings, too.

- Scott

agreed, but where i'm on the fence about this lies in the fact that if our boys on the pitch are like this WITH support, imagine how they'd be doing without it. i'd imagine a lot of the teams in the league would feel grateful to know that fans are sticking with them through thick and thin (although thick/thin probably means they've had as many winning seasons as they've had horrible ones).

Super
08-02-2012, 01:16 PM
agreed, but where i'm on the fence about this lies in the fact that if our boys on the pitch are like this WITH support, imagine how they'd be doing without it. i'd imagine a lot of the teams in the league would feel grateful to know that fans are sticking with them through thick and thin (although thick/thin probably means they've had as many winning seasons as they've had horrible ones).

I honestly don't think it matters either way. Maybe to the ego of the player, but at the end of the day most players will tell you that once the game is ON they block out all sounds. Danny Dichio didn't even know his own song for a looong time. Why? Because he didn't pay attention. You focus on the ball and what you need to do, and not if the bounce is rocking the south end. Heck, look at when we bring out massive banners. It's funny to me every time because not a SINGLE player will look at them. NOT ONE! We like to think that it matters to the players, but it doesn't really - unless the team is doing REALLY well and then getting the reward with amazing atmosphere. Amazing atmosphere and a packed house when you're shit is embarrassing to the players and more than a little confusing as well. This is not a case of "you only sing when you're winning" - let's sing songs to push the team forward when we're shit, and not love songs. That's just, like I said before, being a useful idiot.

Shakes McQueen
08-02-2012, 01:19 PM
agreed, but where i'm on the fence about this lies in the fact that if our boys on the pitch are like this WITH support, imagine how they'd be doing without it. i'd imagine a lot of the teams in the league would feel grateful to know that fans are sticking with them through thick and thin (although thick/thin probably means they've had as many winning seasons as they've had horrible ones).

As you say - it'd be one thing to show a team loyalty during a rough patch. It's another thing to just keep saying "please sir, can I have another?" when they repeatedly slap you in the face, for years.

They (meaning not just the management, but the players) owe us more than we owe them. They get paid to do this. We fork over our own money to come and watch them do their job. Our reward from the FO and players for this commitment has too often been abject mediocrity, or failure. There's a price for too many years of that, and you're seeing it now.

I don't come down 100% firmly on either side of the "don't go and send a message vs. do go and don't let the boys on the field down" divide. I see both angles, and I don't think there's a clear "winning" answer. But at the end of the day, while the team gets your cheers, it's the guys in the private boxes who collect all of your money. And if you aren't willing to vote with your wallet, what is left? Protest? Protests can become impotent if you're still selling out every weekend, because they are essentially anger not backed up with action.

I turned down season tickets this year, because I wanted to be part of the clear wave of resentment towards the TFC FO. I still buy single tickets from time to time, work permitting, but I don't buy anything else - no shirts, no beers, no food. Not even parking. They get my voice when I'm available, and as little of my money as humanly possible. With that said, I understand the people who don't approach it this way.

The "right thing" to do, in response to this team's repeated failures, isn't an easy question to answer - if there's an answer at all.

- Scott

__wowza
08-02-2012, 01:36 PM
^shakes and super, you guys have pretty much summed up both sides of the spectrum perfectly.
it's a shame that sometimes these sides consider themselves factions at war with one another on the boards.

EDIT: add pookie into that mix as well, he's been making the same point about prices vs. wins for quite some time. when this club does turn it's fortunes around you'd better believe the FO will think they can raise ticket prices.

Shakes McQueen
08-02-2012, 01:43 PM
As cliched and pedantic as this sounds, it's fundamentally true - we all want the same thing for this team, and just differ by endlessly varying degrees on how to get there. That's worth some spirited conversation, and even the occasional sparks flying, but not nearly as much fan-on-fan acrimony as we've seen. At least on the internet, where social mores tend to be a lot looser, if they apply at all.

- Scott

Super
08-02-2012, 01:44 PM
^shakes and super, you guys have pretty much summed up both sides of the spectrum perfectly.
it's a shame that sometimes these sides consider themselves factions at war with one another on the boards.

Cheers! At the end of the day we all want TFC to do well, and I think a lot of people feel guilty by not going to a game because they think it means they're part-time supporters. I'm not sure where that mentality came from, but I can guarantee you it's not shared by football supporters all over the world. Growing up in Denmark I was used to very low attendance and seriously pissed off supporters when the team disappointed, and often this even lead to serious harassment of players (or worse) on and off the pitch. Rarely did they continue to shit the bed simply because it was not an option - unless you want to lead the club into bankruptcy. Maybe Torontonians are just too nice. :)

Cashcleaner
08-03-2012, 01:03 AM
As you say - it'd be one thing to show a team loyalty during a rough patch. It's another thing to just keep saying "please sir, can I have another?" when they repeatedly slap you in the face, for years.

They (meaning not just the management, but the players) owe us more than we owe them. They get paid to do this. We fork over our own money to come and watch them do their job. Our reward from the FO and players for this commitment has too often been abject mediocrity, or failure. There's a price for too many years of that, and you're seeing it now.

I don't come down 100% firmly on either side of the "don't go and send a message vs. do go and don't let the boys on the field down" divide. I see both angles, and I don't think there's a clear "winning" answer. But at the end of the day, while the team gets your cheers, it's the guys in the private boxes who collect all of your money. And if you aren't willing to vote with your wallet, what is left? Protest? Protests can become impotent if you're still selling out every weekend, because they are essentially anger not backed up with action.

I turned down season tickets this year, because I wanted to be part of the clear wave of resentment towards the TFC FO. I still buy single tickets from time to time, work permitting, but I don't buy anything else - no shirts, no beers, no food. Not even parking. They get my voice when I'm available, and as little of my money as humanly possible. With that said, I understand the people who don't approach it this way.

The "right thing" to do, in response to this team's repeated failures, isn't an easy question to answer - if there's an answer at all.

- Scott

Couldn't agree more with you on this. Everything really, but especially the remarks I highlighted.

Derko
08-03-2012, 09:08 AM
What kind of supporter am I?

One that supports TFC in the Champions League as well as the MLS. I guess that means I am a better supporter than the 1000's whom don't seem to give a f@#$* about Champions League, as displayed on Wednesday Night. You poor supporters you are.

Furtado91
08-03-2012, 09:57 AM
What kind of supporter am I?

One that supports TFC in the Champions League as well as the MLS. I guess that means I am a better supporter than the 1000's whom don't seem to give a f@#$* about Champions League, as displayed on Wednesday Night. You poor supporters you are.

I don't know if you are aiming that at the regular joes and/or rpb who werent there for that game on wednesday. However in the offchance you are aiming towards the rpb who didnt make it, i will say this, I love the team with all my heart, i try to be there as often as possible, but when you dont have a job like in my situation (Ive been applying but to no avail) its a little hard to go to games. its a little unfair to say those fans dont give a fuck, you dont know many peoples situations. My situation is i cant afford it, others may have kids to watch on that day, or others may have relatives in the hospital etc. in my opinion its unfair to question someones loyalty or support for a team without knowing the circumstances.

trane
08-03-2012, 11:35 AM
Holly shit, I have not seen as much discussion about "what kind of supporter" are you/am I, in the first 27 years of following footy, as I have in the last 7 of supporting this fucking club. Too be honest I do not think it is the supporters, its the club, it really is. If they took the support that was here in year one and did something half positive, this would be a very different group. Maybe we were too blind in out dedication early and are paying the price now.

First year we had nothing and we supported them like they were a hundred year old storied club, we were made fun off, but now we are in year 7 and we have almost nothing and it is hard to justify supporting them like they were a hundred year old storied club, when at almost every turn you get a shit thrown at you by ownership.

Shakes McQueen
08-03-2012, 11:38 AM
Holly shit, I have not seen as much discussion about "what kind of supporter" are you/am I, in the first 27 years of following footy, as I have in the last 7 of supporting this fucking club. Too be honest I do not think it is the supporters, its the club, it really is. If they took the support that was here in year one and did something half positive, this would be a very different group. Maybe we were too blind in out dedication early and are paying the price now.

First year we had nothing and we supported them like they were a hundred year old storied club, we were made fun off, but now we are in year 7 and we have almost nothing and it is hard to justify supporting them like they were a hundred year old storied club, when at almost every turn you get a shit thrown at you by ownership.

I think there's a lot of truth to this as well.

- Scott

Derko
08-03-2012, 11:38 AM
I don't know if you are aiming that at the regular joes and/or rpb who werent there for that game on wednesday. However in the offchance you are aiming towards the rpb who didnt make it, i will say this, I love the team with all my heart, i try to be there as often as possible, but when you dont have a job like in my situation (Ive been applying but to no avail) its a little hard to go to games. its a little unfair to say those fans dont give a fuck, you dont know many peoples situations. My situation is i cant afford it, others may have kids to watch on that day, or others may have relatives in the hospital etc. in my opinion its unfair to question someones loyalty or support for a team without knowing the circumstances.

The regular Joe's the support by RPB's is always outstanding, I was just dissapointed that most of section 110 was filled with Aguila Supporters and Camp Kids.

Derko
08-03-2012, 11:39 AM
Holly shit, I have not seen as much discussion about "what kind of supporter" are you/am I, in the first 27 years of following footy, as I have in the last 7 of supporting this fucking club. Too be honest I do not think it is the supporters, its the club, it really is. If they took the support that was here in year one and did something half positive, this would be a very different group. Maybe we were too blind in out dedication early and are paying the price now.

First year we had nothing and we supported them like they were a hundred year old storied club, we were made fun off, but now we are in year 7 and we have almost nothing and it is hard to justify supporting them like they were a hundred year old storied club, when at almost every turn you get a shit thrown at you by ownership.

That is true Trane

Furtado91
08-03-2012, 11:50 AM
Trane, I think you hit the nail on the head with that comment. I do not know really what to think anymore. who knew Ml$e could create such a clusterfuck with tfc (Sarcasm). i personally think they should just close shop, and reopen when they have new backing and someone who has their fucking head on properly, like those restaurant remodeling shows.

Furtado91
08-03-2012, 11:52 AM
The regular Joe's the support by RPB's is always outstanding, I was just dissapointed that most of section 110 was filled with Aguila Supporters and Camp Kids.

fair enough bud, just wanted to throw that comment out there nothing personal.

Derko
08-03-2012, 12:31 PM
fair enough bud, just wanted to throw that comment out there nothing personal.

Cheers

eustacchio
08-03-2012, 12:48 PM
The regular Joe's the support by RPB's is always outstanding, I was just dissapointed that most of section 110 was filled with Aguila Supporters and Camp Kids.

I did enjoy pointing directly at some of them and making eye contact while doing the massive. (Though I certainly shouldn't have been able to do that.)

Toronto
08-05-2012, 09:37 PM
I'm a Heavily Discounted Group-On Supporter. As a HDGOS I always enjoy sitting next to suckers who've paid full price for ticket when I've paid 23% of my tickets value.

Kidding of course. But I won't be renewing next year. I'll buy my ticket on stubhub. Deals galore!

jabbronies
08-06-2012, 08:15 AM
The regular Joe's the support by RPB's is always outstanding, I was just dissapointed that most of section 110 was filled with Aguila Supporters and Camp Kids.

FWIW - My seasons are in 110 and until this year I haven't missed a game. However, I haven't been to any CCL or NCC games this season and a lot of guys around me (some RPB, some lurkers on the forum and many who are not part of any supporter group) are doing the same thing. MLSE have squeezed enough cash out of us for the crappy product on the pitch. A good nmber of us won't be spending another dime on them this season. Has nothing to do with not wanting to support the club, but it has a lot to do with being treated like suckers with regards to value of the tickets.

Huyton
08-06-2012, 09:17 AM
Buy the game tickets ($17 each...it's a good deal), but don't buy the food, don't spend money on the beer, don't purchase a shirt or other team logo'ed item. Take the TTC or park off-site.

If you must buy food at the stadium, then get it from one of the independant vendors, like the pie guys ,or the poutine people.

However, please come on out and support the team. They can use the extra voice, and the CONCACAF games, along with the Amway Canadian Championship, have been some of the high spots this year.

narduch
08-06-2012, 09:24 AM
The funny thing is, IF the season seat renewals go down dramatically, the secondary market filled with cheap tickets will disappear as well.

I'm not saying that is a reason to renew. Just saying don't expect cheap last minute tickets forever. This is a 2 or 3 year anomaly until things settle down.

Super
08-06-2012, 09:38 AM
The funny thing is, IF the season seat renewals go down dramatically, the secondary market filled with cheap tickets will disappear as well.

I'm not saying that is a reason to renew. Just saying don't expect cheap last minute tickets forever. This is a 2 or 3 year anomaly until things settle down.

No need to worry. There'll be plenty of cheap TFC tickets on dealfind and other similar sites in the coming season. We already saw that happen this year.

BFin
08-07-2012, 07:24 PM
I was saying Boo-urns...

narduch
08-07-2012, 08:28 PM
No need to worry. There'll be plenty of cheap TFC tickets on dealfind and other similar sites in the coming season. We already saw that happen this year.

Those tickets still aren't as cheap as the deals you can get on craigslist or kijiji.

Super
08-07-2012, 08:37 PM
Those tickets still aren't as cheap as the deals you can get on craigslist or kijiji.

That is true, but that is only because the market is oversaturated with tickets due to all the season ticket holders. I don't think that will be the case next year. People know that if they buy seasons they won't be able to get rid of single tickets (can't even give them away for free) - so why bother? Much cheaper to just pick up singles when you can go, unless you go to every single game - and most people don't. So I bet those dealfind tickets will get a lot cheaper still.

Pryu
08-09-2012, 10:16 AM
I love Toronto, I love Canada. I loved TFC for the first 4 season,... now i'm a grumpy supporter. I buy my seasons tickets in hopes that they will become a team that I can be proud of. So at the moment, I'a a grumpy, part time supporter.

TearsForCheers
08-27-2012, 12:29 PM
As Mariner is going on about "what the measure of the man" Terry Dunfield is in his latest post match interview (Houston Aug 25) blah, blah, blah..., I am made aware of the measure of my enthusiasm for this team right now, as I find myself more captivated by the Houston audience rather than what's happening on the field (at around the 2:10 mark, right behind Jeremy Hall)...