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View Full Version : Centre Backs - TFC have a few but are they any good?



Pendrith
07-26-2012, 08:34 AM
From the TFC website, http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2012/07/centre-backs-we-have-few . I guess the hunt for center backs are over. We may have lots of centre backs, but TFC have never had an above average center back in this league. This is what's constant with TFC. Back four, and mainly the centre backs have not been to league standards. Until TFC stops with "centre backs we have a few" as an excuse and actually sign an above average centre back, TFC will keep going nowhere in this league. As a season ticket holder for six long years, I think the non signing of a quality centre back this past offseason and this signing period is the last straw for me. There must be a shakeup in the FO (Anselmi and Cochrane) or TFC will just keep on floundering and continue to lose supporters like myself and see their attendance dwindle even further. Anselmi and Cochrane must go.

Stouffville_RPB
07-26-2012, 08:51 AM
Not that I don't agree with you but isn't every thread going right now about either CBs, Season Tickets or blowing up the FO?

:deadhorse:

TOBOR !
07-26-2012, 09:25 AM
Not that I don't agree with you but isn't every thread going right now about either CBs, Season Tickets or blowing up the FO?

:deadhorse:

Don't be fooled.

Hardly any threads on the go today have anything to do with the OP's topic.

T-boy
07-26-2012, 09:54 AM
I see you all rolling your eyes when I reply to a thread, haha! But I'll have a go at replying to this.

I think the proof in the league is that you DON'T need a "quality centre back" to get anywhere in the MLS. Just look at Colorado - won the cup and they had Marvell Wynne playing centre back! No disrespect to the guy, but 1. he isn't even a centre back by trade, and 2. he really isn't that good, especially at CB! Another good example is Columbus - they won the shield AND the cup with....Andy Iro at CB! Again, as we very well know, NOT a very good CB at all!

A average to good MLS side just needs defenders who can work as a unit, the quality of the individual players doesn't need to be that great.

So where does this leave TFC with the current stock of CB's? I would say TFC have more than their fair share of "average" MLS defenders who could definitely work as a unit.

Cann is ok - not the fastest, but he's got an ok footballing brain and his positioning is pretty good.
Harden - love him or hate him, Harden is the epitome of the "average MLS CB". I'm convinced that playing in Mariner's simplified system that Harden would be pretty good. Under Winter he was ok, but Harden's short passing game isn't good enough for the 4-3-3 system. But in 4-4-2 - he could be fine.
Emory - He's again a fair example of a MLS CB. I would say he's better than Marvell Wynne, for sure! His tackling has proved to be pretty good over the last few weeks. He could be better positionally.
Henry - we all think could make it far in the game, especially at his young age. He could be a much better than average MLS defender.
Williams - For me the jury is out, we just didn't see enough of him lats season to judge fully. But Mariner raves about him.
Maund - I'm not convinced his best position is CB, but he's adequate backup for all defensive positions.

I would say TFC have enough strength in depth for success in the MLS. None of the current CB's are "standouts", but as proven by Colorado and Columbus - you really don't need a "star" CB to get anywhere in the MLS, just an average set of defendesr who can work well as a unit.

joeyjones
07-26-2012, 10:27 AM
I think the proof in the league is that you DON'T need a "quality centre back" to get anywhere in the MLS. Just look at Colorado - won the cup and they had Marvell Wynne playing centre back! No disrespect to the guy, but 1. he isn't even a centre back by trade, and 2. he really isn't that good, especially at CB! Another good example is Columbus - they won the shield AND the cup with....Andy Iro at CB! Again, as we very well know, NOT a very good CB at all!

Drew Moor is the other CB for Colorado, and he is considered one of the top defenders in the league, and Chad Marshall was the other CB for the Crew, who is also considered to be a top defender in the league (maybe top 5 at the time). so, although the 2 CB's you mentioned might not have been great, they certainly had a very good CB to partner with. if TFC could get 1 quality CB to pair with any number of guys we have, we would be in decent shape..

arsenal
07-26-2012, 10:30 AM
I see you all rolling your eyes when I reply to a thread, haha! But I'll have a go at replying to this.

I think the proof in the league is that you DON'T need a "quality centre back" to get anywhere in the MLS. Just look at Colorado - won the cup and they had Marvell Wynne playing centre back! No disrespect to the guy, but 1. he isn't even a centre back by trade, and 2. he really isn't that good, especially at CB! Another good example is Columbus - they won the shield AND the cup with....Andy Iro at CB! Again, as we very well know, NOT a very good CB at all!


The 2 examples you just gave are perfect examples on why you DO need a "quality CB". Both Marvell Wynne and Andy Iro were the secondary CB to a much better CB partner (two of the best in MLS - Drew Moor for COL and Chad Marshall for CLB). You can make do with the cast of characters we have @ CB as long as they are paired with a great CB.

oops ... see joeyjones beat me to it

MartinUtd
07-26-2012, 10:41 AM
I'm curious if the Melberg deal is dead, does that increase the likelihood that we'll go for McKenna?

T-boy
07-26-2012, 10:41 AM
Good points boys, for sure. The two CB partners were "better than average", agreed.

I'd say we have better than average FB's at the club tho - I believe Ecks to be one of the best FB's in the league. And Morgan on his day is as good as most. If we can just have a steady CB partnership then I think you can do well in the MLS.

Couchy81
07-26-2012, 10:58 AM
If we can just have a steady CB partnership then I think you can do well in the MLS.

I think we can do well with Henry + an experienced above average CB. Ecks-Henry-Melberg/Nesta-Morgan could have been that steady backline we've been sorely lacking forever. Now that those deals are behind us, our backline will still remain leaky for the remainder of the season and beyond, getting us nowhere in MLS. It seems like Mariner is hoping that Williams will solidify it, but that doesn't have my vote of confidence.

Richard
07-26-2012, 11:04 AM
I still say our midfield is in worse shape, but i do agree with you we need a solid cb(does not need to be a dp). Our midfield though is where most of our problems start, not enough speed,physicality and skill.

[NBF]
07-26-2012, 11:12 AM
I see you all rolling your eyes when I reply to a thread, haha! But I'll have a go at replying to this.

1.
I think the proof in the league is that you DON'T need a "quality centre back" to get anywhere in the MLS. Just look at Colorado - won the cup and they had Marvell Wynne playing centre back! No disrespect to the guy, but 1. he isn't even a centre back by trade, and 2. he really isn't that good, especially at CB! Another good example is Columbus - they won the shield AND the cup with....Andy Iro at CB! Again, as we very well know, NOT a very good CB at all!

2.
A average to good MLS side just needs defenders who can work as a unit, the quality of the individual players doesn't need to be that great.

3.
So where does this leave TFC with the current stock of CB's? I would say TFC have more than their fair share of "average" MLS defenders who could definitely work as a unit.

Cann is ok - not the fastest, but he's got an ok footballing brain and his positioning is pretty good.
Harden - love him or hate him, Harden is the epitome of the "average MLS CB". I'm convinced that playing in Mariner's simplified system that Harden would be pretty good. Under Winter he was ok, but Harden's short passing game isn't good enough for the 4-3-3 system. But in 4-4-2 - he could be fine.
Emory - He's again a fair example of a MLS CB. I would say he's better than Marvell Wynne, for sure! His tackling has proved to be pretty good over the last few weeks. He could be better positionally.
Henry - we all think could make it far in the game, especially at his young age. He could be a much better than average MLS defender.
Williams - For me the jury is out, we just didn't see enough of him lats season to judge fully. But Mariner raves about him.
Maund - I'm not convinced his best position is CB, but he's adequate backup for all defensive positions.

I would say TFC have enough strength in depth for success in the MLS. None of the current CB's are "standouts", but as proven by Colorado and Columbus - you really don't need a "star" CB to get anywhere in the MLS, just an average set of defendesr who can work well as a unit.

1. STOP! GODAMN! If you want to make the argument that you dont need a Rafael Marquez in the defense thats fine but you have to admit that your team is automatically a playoff contender maybe even a championship team with a DP defender.

You play to win the game. You play to win a title, if TFC doesnt want to win the title or games in MLS than all it has to do is continue to ignore the fact that you need experience in the backline.

2. That is what a defense is suppose to do anyway, you dont give credit for things you are suppose to do. This is a non-issue. They are suppose to work together at keeping goals out of the net and right now they cant keep up with the average MLS team without an injection of pace and minimal marking skills from Eckersley.

3. They currently work together at getting hammered because they are slow and the current system is the same system in 2010 that made Ty Harden and Nana Attakora/ Adrian Cann regular starters on the first team.

The young players you've listed at best should be considered backups on any team, because they show potential for improvement, but right now you cant tell me that a young group that has no more than 1 year in MLS is suppose to stop experienced MLS strikers and international team players from scoring on them. Its like asking League 2 defenders to stop experienced Premier League strikers from scoring on them.

*Harden and Cann are defenders that should be available on a need basis, these players are the type you want for cheap and use on a limited basis due to injury or lack of depth.

Red I
07-26-2012, 11:12 AM
Don't be fooled.

Hardly any threads on the go today have anything to do with the OP's topic.http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/23996394.jpg

Detroit_TFC
07-26-2012, 11:19 AM
I'm sure RBNY would be glad to ship Rafa M off to us or anybody who would pay his wage. If he would actually play, it might be worth it.

T-boy
07-26-2012, 11:28 AM
;1515994']1. STOP! GODAMN! If you want to make the argument that you dont need a Rafael Marquez in the defense thats fine but you have to admit that your team is automatically a playoff contender maybe even a championship team with a DP defender.

You play to win the game. You play to win a title, if TFC doesnt want to win the title or games in MLS than all it has to do is continue to ignore the fact that you need experience in the backline.

2. That is what a defense is suppose to do anyway, you dont give credit for things you are suppose to do. This is a non-issue. They are suppose to work together at keeping goals out of the net and right now they cant keep up with the average MLS team without an injection of pace and minimal marking skills from Eckersley.

3. They currently work together at getting hammered because they are slow and the current system is the same system in 2010 that made Ty Harden and Nana Attakora/ Adrian Cann regular starters on the first team.

The young players you've listed at best should be considered backups on any team, because they show potential for improvement, but right now you cant tell me that a young group that has no more than 1 year in MLS is suppose to stop experienced MLS strikers and international team players from scoring on them. Its like asking League 2 defenders to stop experienced Premier League strikers from scoring on them.

*Harden and Cann are defenders that should be available on a need basis, these players are the type you want for cheap and use on a limited basis due to injury or lack of depth.

You're saying that we need a quality centre back, not necesarrily an experienced one, right? We definitely don't need a Nick Garcia, that's for sure! All the experience in the world doesn't necesarily make you a good defender.

I always said we definitely should sign Mellberg if we can. So, I'm fairly pissed that TFC pulled the plug on that and instead got Hassli, for sure. Having said that, I'm with the philosaphy that a team needs to out SCORE an opponent, and not out defend them. I'm all for attacking football, that's why I always like my team to play with 2 flair wingers! So, I'm actually happy with getting Hassli given the choice between bolstering our attack for the rest of the season of bolstering the defence.

If we can't get Mellberg or another class CB, I'd fairly satisfied with the defenders we have at the club right now, at least for this season. I would definitely work on getting a quality CB this winter though. But this season is lost as far as play offs is concerned - so I would rather wait and get the best defender we can, rather than snap at a defender now and just end up with just another Cann, Harden, or Williams. We might as well just play what we have, rather than take a gamble on somebody.

T-boy
07-26-2012, 11:29 AM
I'm sure RBNY would be glad to ship Rafa M off to us or anybody who would pay his wage. If he would actually play, it might be worth it.

Good point - he's played what, 5 games this season so far?! That's not a good enough return for a DP, they aren't getting their money's worth so far this season.

Detroit_TFC
07-26-2012, 11:41 AM
Our back line is likely to improve a bit so we could probably live without a quality CB (DP or not) but my concern is that Frings will continue to be tied up at the back covering gaps.

ag futbol
07-26-2012, 12:28 PM
Logic of article:

1) TFC tied Liverpool
2) TFC used 7 players in the game who can play CB
3) TFC must have really good defenders!

And just in case you didn't buy that it says at the bottom that Paul Mariner is looking for a "bossman" anyway.

Anyone who thinks our current set of CBs are going to get us anywhere, pass the bong. We could run a practical highlight reel of these guys getting embarrassed on a weekly basis.

OgtheDim
07-26-2012, 01:09 PM
Not that we would get one, but a stud experienced GK with a Frings like stare could do something to resolve our defensive lapses.


**

Truth be told we need an experienced CD to tell the young kids off when they make mistakes. Not sure our current d coach is enough of a hard ass.

Canary10
07-26-2012, 03:51 PM
Hours till the end of the transfer window are ticking..........Unless we're really busy tomorrow, and even though I like the Hassli deal and think that was the new priority with Koef going down, we're looking at an "F" grade in my opinion.

T-boy
07-26-2012, 08:54 PM
I still say, unless we can get "mr right" right now, I would prefer not to just sign anybody or a mr "right now". If we sign Mellberg or McKenna tomorrow, that would be great. If we get some unheard of South American defender, or an our of favour MLS CB (like Iro), I'd prefer not to tie up any resources going forward, and find the right CB in the winter. Give Henry, Emory, and Maund as much game time as possible to get them experience. We've seen what signing a big resource DP can do to tie your hands if you get the wrong player (JDG!), so lets not jump at just anyone. I'm saying Mellberg or McKenna, or nobody. Going anywhere in between right now is not going to gain us anything than short term benefits, if any at all!

narduch
07-26-2012, 09:01 PM
Not going to read an article by Asif Hossain. No thanks.

TOBOR !
07-26-2012, 09:23 PM
Not going to read an article by Asif Hossain. No thanks.

Careful. You`ll have him on here demanding reparations.

narduch
07-26-2012, 10:10 PM
Careful. You`ll have him on here demanding reparations.

Maybe he can teach me how to be a 'real' fan.

Auzzy
07-26-2012, 10:17 PM
I still say, unless we can get "mr right" right now, I would prefer not to just sign anybody or a mr "right now". If we sign Mellberg or McKenna tomorrow, that would be great. If we get some unheard of South American defender, or an our of favour MLS CB (like Iro), I'd prefer not to tie up any resources going forward, and find the right CB in the winter. Give Henry, Emory, and Maund as much game time as possible to get them experience. We've seen what signing a big resource DP can do to tie your hands if you get the wrong player (JDG!), so lets not jump at just anyone. I'm saying Mellberg or McKenna, or nobody. Going anywhere in between right now is not going to gain us anything than short term benefits, if any at all!

So there's only two good CBs available in the whole world? I don't think so.

Mariner says in the interview that they're still looking for that backline bossman. So despite all the prevaricating comments here, they still find that to be important -- and I would therefore also see it as a failure if they don't manage to sign that guy. Important also that Mariner said: "at this moment in time" he has no comment about Garber's comments. Hopefully there's still a possibility of signing someone, that would be a reason to not comment about it now. Hopefully they will still find someone who provides an upgrade at CB -- and at some point, when that dust has settled, we may hear more about the background.

T-boy
07-26-2012, 10:33 PM
So there's only two good CBs available in the whole world? I don't think so.

Mariner says in the interview that they're still looking for that backline bossman. So despite all the prevaricating comments here, they still find that to be important -- and I would therefore also see it as a failure if they don't manage to sign that guy. Important also that Mariner said: "at this moment in time" he has no comment about Garber's comments. Hopefully there's still a possibility of signing someone, that would be a reason to not comment about it now. Hopefully they will still find someone who provides an upgrade at CB -- and at some point, when that dust has settled, we may hear more about the background.

Well obviously! I mean "Mellberg or McKenna OR somebody of their quality".

Soccerpro
07-26-2012, 10:38 PM
Careful. You`ll have him on here demanding reparations.

Or promising to make academy coverage "a priority" again like he did at the start of the season.