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denime
07-26-2012, 05:36 AM
Mornin'




TFC TV (http://www.torontofc.ca/video)




Things to watch in MLS's second half (http://www.torontosun.com/2012/07/25/top-5-things-to-look-forward-to-in-mlss-second-half)


Canada has to be much better (http://www.sportsnet.ca/olympics/2012/07/25/molinaro_canada_down/)


EJ's injury-time goal lifts All-Stars past Chelsea (http://www.mlssoccer.com/all-star/2012/news/article/2012/07/25/recap-ejs-injury-time-goal-lifts-all-stars-past-chelsea)




TFC Related Blogs !!


(http://redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?29582-TFC-MLS-blogs-thread)


SUNSHINE (http://www.torontosun.com/sunshine-girl)

Auzzy
07-26-2012, 06:51 AM
Referee of the MLS all-star game: Baldomero Toledo

:picard:

TFC07
07-26-2012, 06:57 AM
Canada has to be much better (http://www.sportsnet.ca/olympics/2012/07/25/molinaro_canada_down/)

quote from article:


The Japanese used their Barcelona-like ability to hold onto the ball and dominate proceedings, forcing the Canadians to chase shadows.


While Japan was always moving off the ball and pressed furiously to regain possession when it was lost, Canada remained stagnant as though they had feet of clay. For all the talk about Canada needing to establish its physical presence, it's clear they lack the basic technical skills of elite women's soccer nations such as Japan.

That was painful game to watch. Seeing how Japanese played makes me think if TFC ever stuck to 4-3-3, how much better we will be in the long haul.


Indeed, one of the longstanding criticisms of this Canadian team is that it relies far too much on forward Christine Sinclair to supply the goals. Opponents know that if you shut down the Canadian captain, Canada's attack grinds to a halt.

Kind of like current TFC team under Mariner that relies on Danny K before he went down? lol

Women's team and TFC (under Mariner) are so alike. Getting results from mediocre and bottom tier teams, but fail to take it to next level and beat a top tier team. While majority of fans are happy remaining mediocre instead of demanding better soccer.

You can seriously change word "Canadian women team" to TFC in the article.

Huyton
07-26-2012, 07:05 AM
quote from article:

Kind of like current TFC team under Mariner that relies on Danny K before he went down? lol



Like the second half against Colorado last week?

TFC07
07-26-2012, 07:12 AM
Like the second half against Colorado last week?

Colorado is a shit team. Second half was impressive for TFC standards, but nothing special to brag about.

joeyjones
07-26-2012, 07:16 AM
Colorado is a shit team. Second half was impressive for TFC standards, but nothing special to brag about.

at least we are beating shit teams, unlike the AW era where we couldn't beat shit

Auzzy
07-26-2012, 07:35 AM
^ If we continue comparing everything to the absolutely dismal results under Winter, especially at the beginning of this season in MLS... then even shit will look golden. We shall see how things look longer term especially against top teams -- and does the team keep improving or is this just a new-manager bounce.

TFC07
07-26-2012, 07:42 AM
at least we are beating shit teams, unlike the AW era where we couldn't beat shit

True, but we should be beating shit teams based on our payroll and resources alone (TFC has 3rd highest payroll in MLS). TFC is currently under-performing and type of soccer TFC is playing now isn't going to work in long term and help TFC to become MLS and CONCACAF champions. If you watch women game yesterday, you can see why AW tried to establish 4-3-3 possession game. It's hard to beat! AW wasn't right coach for the team, but it doesn't mean we need to restore to typical 4-4-2 and get rid of some of your best technical players.

scooter
07-26-2012, 07:43 AM
mornin d

Yagbod
07-26-2012, 08:17 AM
Paul Mariner will be on the The Soccer Show with Nigel Reed tonight at 8 on the Fan, later on SNW. fyi.

Technorgasm
07-26-2012, 08:21 AM
mornin d

#Marinergetsshitdone!!

Fookin LOVE it Scooter !!!

question. . . thinking about opening a strip joint called
THE PELT ROOM.

I assume I can count on the RPB for support?

denime
07-26-2012, 08:32 AM
^ If we continue comparing everything to the absolutely dismal results under Winter, especially at the beginning of this season in MLS... then even shit will look golden. We shall see how things look longer term especially against top teams -- and does the team keep improving or is this just a new-manager bounce.

Well according to Big Stooge we are ready for EPL.



Tom Anselmi (@TomAnselmiMLSE (https://twitter.com/TomAnselmiMLSE))
2012-07-23 9:42 AM (https://twitter.com/tomanselmimlse/status/227398305473232896)
What a great weekend. Proving ourselves to be on a par with Liverpool Soccer Club. Shows how far we've come under Paul Mariner.:picard:


Can someone please get him(Anselmi) out and far away from TFC,ASAP?

Huyton
07-26-2012, 08:34 AM
question. . . thinking about opening a strip joint called
THE PELT ROOM.

I assume I can count on the RPB for support?

As long as it's not The Twisted Pelt, I'd be OK with that.

And...if TFC ever jumps the shark and gets cheerleaders, that you put in a competitive bid to provide them.

After all, it's completely legal for a woman to go topless in public in Ontario.

YSA would be the least of Don Garbers problems.

London
07-26-2012, 08:36 AM
^^^ ohhh Tom, your comments just continue to prove you know jack shit about anything

Canary10
07-26-2012, 08:39 AM
quote from article:





That was painful game to watch. Seeing how Japanese played makes me think if TFC ever stuck to 4-3-3, how much better we will be in the long haul.



Kind of like current TFC team under Mariner that relies on Danny K before he went down? lol

Women's team and TFC (under Mariner) are so alike. Getting results from mediocre and bottom tier teams, but fail to take it to next level and beat a top tier team. While majority of fans are happy remaining mediocre instead of demanding better soccer.

You can seriously change word "Canadian women team" to TFC in the article.

I was going to say the same thing yesterday. You're bang on. Canada's women's team has relied on being physical. Now that the world has caught on to women's football, the technical aspect of a lot of countries men's teams is transferring to their women's teams too. Already Canada looks like a laggard here. Same thing is going on in MLS. TFC are already being left behind in terms of style and formation because we hired this guy whose best results (as an assistant coach) came when the league had 10 teams and 8 of them made the playoffs.

Joe Kool
07-26-2012, 08:54 AM
I figured I would post this in here instead of creating a thread for a simple question. TFC is advertising their Community Practices and I want to take my kids on Monday. Does anyone know what time they start? They seem to have left that little tidbit off the advertisement on the TFC website. Thanks.

Auzzy
07-26-2012, 09:10 AM
Can someone please get him(Anselmi) out and far away from TFC,ASAP?


^^^ ohhh Tom, your comments just continue to prove you know jack shit about anything

REMINDER: That Tom Anselmi Twitter account is still fake.


EDIT: But yes Tom Anselmi should be as far away from TFC as possible.

joeyjones
07-26-2012, 09:35 AM
True, but we should be beating shit teams based on our payroll and resources alone (TFC has 3rd highest payroll in MLS). TFC is currently under-performing and type of soccer TFC is playing now isn't going to work in long term and help TFC to become MLS and CONCACAF champions. If you watch women game yesterday, you can see why AW tried to establish 4-3-3 possession game. It's hard to beat! AW wasn't right coach for the team, but it doesn't mean we need to restore to typical 4-4-2 and get rid of some of your best technical players.

first off, TFC isn't currently underperforming, point to me where that is the case. second, how do you know that PM's way of playing won't work in the long term...you have a fucking crystal ball too?

jabbronies
07-26-2012, 09:37 AM
question. . . thinking about opening a strip joint called
THE PELT ROOM.

I assume I can count on the RPB for support?

Depends on the quality of ladies

jabbronies
07-26-2012, 09:41 AM
first off, TFC isn't currently underperforming, point to me where that is the case. second, how do you know that PM's way of playing won't work in the long term...you have a fucking crystal ball too?

there is always a chance is could work, but if you look at football around the globe and watch teams that are playing a more possession style game, they are the ones that are dominating the sport.
Not saying dump and chase won't win a game or two, but possession based game is what is winning more often all around the world.

joeyjones
07-26-2012, 09:47 AM
there is always a chance is could work, but if you look at football around the globe and watch teams that are playing a more possession style game, they are the ones that are dominating the sport.
Not saying dump and chase won't win a game or two, but possession based game is what is winning more often.

this is a different league than any around the world...i think PM has a grasp of what type of player and what type of soccer style it takes to win in MLS.

Derko
07-26-2012, 09:50 AM
first off, TFC isn't currently underperforming, point to me where that is the case. second, how do you know that PM's way of playing won't work in the long term...you have a fucking crystal ball too?

Joey you naughty boy, the I hate 4-4-2/Mariner thugs will get you, just kidding on the thugs bit.
I think TFC are performing better because they are scoring goals and winning games as compared to not scoring goals and losing, that is kind of a Black and White analogy, but that is how I see it right now, will it continue? I don't have a crystal ball, let's see what happens. Roll on TFC, see all on Saturday, cheering for another win, and enjoying as always!!

TFC07
07-26-2012, 09:53 AM
this is a different league than any around the world...i think PM has a grasp of what type of player and what type of soccer style it takes to win in MLS.

MLS teams are adopting possession game as well. Same can be said about top NCAA soccer teams.

Eastend
07-26-2012, 09:59 AM
#Marinergetsshitdone!!

Fookin LOVE it Scooter !!!

question. . . thinking about opening a strip joint called
THE PELT ROOM.

I assume I can count on the RPB for support?

New rules on stripper work permits will make this a hard start up.
:)

Dom

T-boy
07-26-2012, 10:00 AM
Well according to Big Stooge we are ready for EPL.


Can someone please get him(Anselmi) out and far away from TFC,ASAP?

haha that's definitely a fake account "eah"! :D

joeyjones
07-26-2012, 10:07 AM
MLS teams are adopting possession game as well. Same can be said about top NCAA soccer teams.

still doesn't indicate how TFC ends up in the future under PM, or whether PM has the ability to adjust the style of play based on necessity. possession game does not = 4-3-3, you can play possession game in many different configurations...fact is, TFC is currently performing at a reasonable ppg avg, not to say that will last forever but it is a good start. if results wane and PM can't figure out how to adjust, then you have an argument...for right now, your assumption that PM's style of play won't work in the future is baseless..

London
07-26-2012, 10:08 AM
New rules on stripper work permits will make this a hard start up.
:)

Dom


just head to your local high school and hand out flyers on "how to pay for your college education" just like the other clubs did

Jack
07-26-2012, 10:08 AM
LOL you guys got trolled by the fake Anselmi Twitter g:D

TFC07
07-26-2012, 10:15 AM
still doesn't indicate how TFC ends up in the future under PM, or whether PM has the ability to adjust the style of play based on necessity. possession game does not = 4-3-3, you can play possession game in many different configurations...fact is, TFC is currently performing at a reasonable ppg avg, not to say that will last forever but it is a good start. if results wane and PM can't figure out how to adjust, then you have an argument...for right now, your assumption that PM's style of play won't work in the future is baseless..

PM has shown he can't adjust and his tactics have been questionable (why play Henry as a RB while Eck plays a CB?) while failing to get a CB which he had 18 months to do.

Well have fun watching and enjoying short term success playing type of soccer that isn't going to win championships. If you watch women game yesterday (as an example), you would understand why there are people like me questioning direction where TFC is going in long term. (Candian women teams plays similar style to what current TFC team plays while Japan plays type of soccer that MLSE sold us before firing AW that they wanted us to play and build a culture around it).

FYI: TFC hasn't done a good job playing possession game beside Colorado game.

T-boy
07-26-2012, 10:36 AM
PM has shown he can't adjust and his tactics have been questionable (why play Henry as a RB while Eck plays a CB?) while failing to get a CB which he had 18 months to do.

Well have fun watching and enjoying short term success playing type of soccer that isn't going to win championships. If you watch women game yesterday (as an example), you would understand why there are people like me questioning direction where TFC is going in long term. (Candian women teams plays similar style to what current TFC team plays while Japan plays type of soccer that MLSE sold us before firing AW that they wanted us to play and build a culture around it).

FYI: TFC hasn't done a good job playing possession game beside Colorado game.

Just like how Colorado played and WON the cup 2 years ago?

A Stick
07-26-2012, 10:43 AM
It doesn't matter if TFC or the Canadian WNT team play 4-3-3 or 4-4-2. They need to control the fucking ball and not hoof it up the park aimlessly. The formation is not the problem, it's the mentality! Sticking with a British way of playing that predates the 90's is hopeless in the long term and proof is in the pudding during England's Euro Cup campaign. TFC management will see that these short term results will not equal the same amount season ticket holders next year. Our fan base is not that stupid. I hope you are reading this Tom Anselmi.

jabbronies
07-26-2012, 10:46 AM
Just like how Colorado played and WON the cup 2 years ago?

LA won last year with a 4-4-2 as well.

joeyjones
07-26-2012, 11:10 AM
since 2007, head coaches who have won the MLS Cup:

2007 - Kinnear
2008 - Schmid
2009 - Kreis
2010 - Gary Smith
2011 - Arena

since 2007, head coaches who have won the Supporter's Shield:

2007 - Soehn
2008 - Schmid
2009 - Warzycha
2010 - Arena
2011 - Arena

all of these coaches (except Gary Smith), have extensive MLS experience. coincidence? i don't think so. all of these coaches knew (know) how to put together MLS teams and win. whatever the style of play or formation they use, they win.

TFC07
07-26-2012, 11:13 AM
Just like how Colorado played and WON the cup 2 years ago?

Aren't they currently on 5 game losing streak?

TFC07
07-26-2012, 11:15 AM
It doesn't matter if TFC or the Canadian WNT team play 4-3-3 or 4-4-2. They need to control the fucking ball and not hoof it up the park aimlessly. The formation is not the problem, it's the mentality! Sticking with a British way of playing that predates the 90's is hopeless in the long term and proof is in the pudding during England's Euro Cup campaign. TFC management will see that these short term results will not equal the same amount season ticket holders next year. Our fan base is not that stupid. I hope you are reading this Tom Anselmi.

Agreed. Well said. Too bad some of supporters here don't see it that way.

joeyjones
07-26-2012, 11:15 AM
Aren't they currently on 5 game losing streak?

yes, and the new head coach is trying to employ a possession style game....brush up on your facts, your making a case for the other side..

TFC07
07-26-2012, 11:17 AM
yes, and the new head coach is trying to employ a possession style game....brush up on your facts, your making a case for the other side..

But 2 years ago in MLS is a long time. A lot of teams are adopting possession style of game in MLS. Why don't you look at that facts?

FYI: Didn't TFC play more possession game against Colorado to beat them?

PopePouri
07-26-2012, 11:19 AM
Aren't they currently on 5 game losing streak?

Guess the system that Pereja was trying to implement...

http://www.goal.com/en-us/news/1110/major-league-soccer/2012/05/07/3086794/monday-mls-breakdown-colorado-continues-to-adapt-to-a-new

Technorgasm
07-26-2012, 11:19 AM
New rules on stripper work permits will make this a hard start up.

ya, the more time I spend with stippers the harder it gets. . .

PELT ROOM Thursdays at SHOELESS JOES.
Inquire within. . .

TFC07
07-26-2012, 11:21 AM
Guess the system that Pereja was trying to implement...

http://www.goal.com/en-us/news/1110/major-league-soccer/2012/05/07/3086794/monday-mls-breakdown-colorado-continues-to-adapt-to-a-new

That's great, but why not look rest of MLS teams?

Colorado is going through same thing what TFC went through last season until they got their players.

Technorgasm
07-26-2012, 11:22 AM
it doesn't matter if tfc or the canadian wnt team play 4-3-3 or 4-4-2. They need to control the fucking ball and not hoof it up the park aimlessly.

thank you !

joeyjones
07-26-2012, 11:22 AM
But 2 years ago in MLS is a long time. A lot of teams are adopting possession style of game in MLS. Why don't you look at that facts?

FYI: Didn't TFC play more possession game against Colorado to beat them?

you just indicated that Colorado is on a 5 game losing streak, what was your point there? then you say that TFC played more of a possession game against Colorado to win, and you insisted that PM can't adjust. doesn't that indicate that PM can adjust style, as he has won playing both ways? and weren't you inferring that Colorado was on a losing streak because thay play more direct. not understanding your argument at all guy...

Beach_Red
07-26-2012, 11:24 AM
MLS teams are adopting possession game as well. Same can be said about top NCAA soccer teams.

And so TFC will play that way, too, once those playes are the norm. TFC's problem has always been player aquisition - and it's still the biggest problem. Putting Mariner "in charge" of player aquisition doesn't mean much if there's no infrastructure to be in charge of.

All Mariner did was pick the style that would be the most successful with the players he has - and is likely to get - in the next two years (he has a three-year contract, right? Why would he be worried about anything past that now?).

TFC07
07-26-2012, 11:26 AM
you just indicated that Colorado is on a 5 game losing streak, what was your point there? then you say that TFC played more of a possession game against Colorado to win, and you insisted that PM can't adjust. doesn't that indicate that PM can adjust style, as he has won playing both ways? and weren't you inferring that Colorado was on a losing streak because thay play more direct. not understanding your argument at all guy...

Point was someone bought out about them winning a championship in couple of years ago. That's whole point. Not their style of game! TFC won because they didn't hoof the ball.

PM adjust? It had to do more with Colorado were protecting their lead (you know like how TFC usually do when they're up) by sitting back than Mariner making adjustments that cost Colorado the game.

Whoop
07-26-2012, 11:29 AM
Good blog post about Canada's women's team and how emphasis on skill and tactics has allowed Japan to pass Canada in the women's game.

http://www.canadakicks.com/?p=123



The stagnation of the women’s game in Canada and growth in Japan is reflected perfectly by the much maligned FIFA rankings. In 2003 Japan was ranked 14th in the world and has since shown steady almost constant annual progression to their current ranking of third.
On the other hand Canada’s progression from 11th in 2003 to their current ranking of seventh has had more ups and downs than a new couple’s toilet seat. In 2003 Canada was ranked 11th, fell to 13th two years later, moved back to 11th the following year then reached ninth in 2007, fell again two years later to 12th…. reached as high as sixth and as low as ninth in 2011 and has most recently settled at 7th.

Japan is currently ranked 3rd in the world and are reigning World Cup champions.

joeyjones
07-26-2012, 11:29 AM
Point was someone bought out about them winning a championship in couple of years ago. That's whole point. Not their style of game! TFC won because they didn't hoof the ball.

PM adjust? It had to do more with Colorado were protecting their lead (you know like how TFC usually do when they're up) by sitting back than Mariner making adjustments that cost Colorado the game.

what was the point of bringing up the 5 game losing streak? and, TFC has only 1 win since PM took over, when he played more possession?

TFC07
07-26-2012, 11:30 AM
And so TFC will play that way, too, once those playes are the norm. TFC's problem has always been player aquisition - and it's still the biggest problem. Putting Mariner "in charge" of player aquisition doesn't mean much if there's no infrastructure to be in charge of.

All Mariner did was pick the style that would be the most successful with the players he has - and is likely to get - in the next two years (he has a three-year contract, right? Why would he be worried about anything past that now?).

Who's fault is that? Mariner had 18 months to address all these issues. There shouldn't be no excuses when comes to this issue. Looks like we are not going to get our CB we desperately need. You're not going to hold Mariner accountable for that as well? Who's responsible of building infrastructure?

T-boy
07-26-2012, 11:34 AM
Who's fault is that? Mariner had 18 months to address all these issues. There shouldn't be no excuses when comes to this issue. Looks like we are not going to get our CB we desperately need. You're not going to hold Mariner accountable for that as well? Who's responsible charge of building infrastructure?

I think if Koev's had not got injured, we would definitely have signed Mellberg. But given that Koev's got injured and left us with JUST Johnson as our only striker, the bigger need was with the forwards rather than defence.

TFC07
07-26-2012, 11:34 AM
what was the point of bringing up the 5 game losing streak? and, TFC has only 1 win since PM took over, when he played more possession?

It was show that Colorado isn't a good team anymore.

T-boy
07-26-2012, 11:34 AM
It doesn't matter if TFC or the Canadian WNT team play 4-3-3 or 4-4-2. They need to control the fucking ball and not hoof it up the park aimlessly. The formation is not the problem, it's the mentality! Sticking with a British way of playing that predates the 90's is hopeless in the long term and proof is in the pudding during England's Euro Cup campaign. TFC management will see that these short term results will not equal the same amount season ticket holders next year. Our fan base is not that stupid. I hope you are reading this Tom Anselmi.

Yes, I'm reading! :p

(joke, obviously.....).

TFC07
07-26-2012, 11:36 AM
I think if Koev's had not got injured, we would definitely have signed Mellberg. But given that Koev's got injured and left us with JUST Johnson as our only striker, the bigger need was with the forwards rather than defence.

TFC didn't have a back up plan to acquire CB?

Whoop
07-26-2012, 11:42 AM
Problem between 4-3-3 and 4-4-2 is that most NA players don't have the technical skill, football IQ to play a 4-3-3 which is why MLS teams alternate between a 4-3-3 and 4-4-2.

Until players in NA improve their skill, they will struggle.

But there is hope for the future.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DThjb_XyyoU

(Though you can hear the typical NA parent going nuts in the crowd.)

joeyjones
07-26-2012, 11:45 AM
It was show that Colorado isn't a good team anymore.

correct, and they now are trying to play a more possession type game...

Beach_Red
07-26-2012, 11:47 AM
Who's fault is that? Mariner had 18 months to address all these issues. There shouldn't be no excuses when comes to this issue. Looks like we are not going to get our CB we desperately need. You're not going to hold Mariner accountable for that as well? Who's responsible of building infrastructure?

The people writing the cheques. Maybe it's like this, maybe after 18 months at MLSE Mariner figured out how the place worked - who was going to keep their jobs nop matter what because of who they were loyal to - and he realized how much of their "vision" was bullshit PR and how much they were really willing to do. Sure, we can say they have the third highest payroll because they overpaid DPs but maybe they're really only willing to spend money when it can be seen, when they can have a press conference and announce a big signing. Or the way they use the academy for PR. Every cent they spend is for PR and in public.

Maybe Mariner, like some guys before him, saw the way this place is run behind the scenes and saw the limitations.

TFC07
07-26-2012, 11:58 AM
correct, and they now are trying to play a more possession type game...

Maybe they realize their "old ways" don't work anymore?

joeyjones
07-26-2012, 12:00 PM
Maybe they realize their "old ways" don't work anymore?

and their new way is working like a charm :facepalm:

TFC07
07-26-2012, 12:03 PM
The people writing the cheques. Maybe it's like this, maybe after 18 months at MLSE Mariner figured out how the place worked - who was going to keep their jobs nop matter what because of who they were loyal to - and he realized how much of their "vision" was bullshit PR and how much they were really willing to do. Sure, we can say they have the third highest payroll because they overpaid DPs but maybe they're really only willing to spend money when it can be seen, when they can have a press conference and announce a big signing. Or the way they use the academy for PR. Every cent they spend is for PR and in public.

Maybe Mariner, like some guys before him, saw the way this place is run behind the scenes and saw the limitations.

Well we don't know what exactly is happening in TFC FO.

I am sure if they wanted good PR then they would try to sign a big name DP that brings a lot of people to the games and media coverage. If Nesta (big name CB) rumours are true, then blame has to go to Mariner not people writing the cheques.

TFC07
07-26-2012, 12:04 PM
and their new way is working like a charm :facepalm:

Because they don't have right players?

Beach_Red
07-26-2012, 12:10 PM
Well we don't know what exactly is happening in TFC FO.

I am sure if they wanted good PR then they would try to sign a big name DP that brings a lot of people to the games and media coverage. If Nesta (big name CB) rumours are true, then blame has to go to Mariner not people writing the cheques.

Well, assigning blame isn't really going to help - nor is it possible when we don't know how the decision-making breaks down. We know that Winter had to make presentations to the MLSE board of directors, we know that Anselmi needed board approval to make a coaching change and we know (though admittedly, it's been denied) that they need board approval to sign a DP.

This is why so many of us on this board want TFC to have a president who actually runs the team - and has a set budget to work with. The structure they have now with some decisions being made by the GM and some that need board approval isn't working. Plus, there's the adding layer of the GM making presentations to the board and telling them what they want to hear in order to keep his job. It kind of looks like Winter told them the truth and got fired...

T-boy
07-26-2012, 12:32 PM
TFC didn't have a back up plan to acquire CB?

I think ALL plans are scuppered when you lose your number one player. :(

ag futbol
07-26-2012, 12:34 PM
I think ALL plans are scuppered when you lose your number one player. :(
Poor planning at it's finest if that's the case.

Huyton
07-26-2012, 12:40 PM
At 4 wins, 4 draws and 2 losses, Paul Mariner is doing something right.

For this group of players, at this time, he's got them playing a style which is effective. When the players deviate from it, as they did in the first half against Colorado, they get (rightly) the hair-dryer treatment. In the second half, they played the way Mariner wanted them to play, which is much more of a possession game.

As the team has been winning more games, and getting their confidence back, they are starting to play with the ball more. It's not surprising that going W0-D0-L9 would make a defence believe that the ball is their enemy, not their friend.

Will Mariners TFC always play this way? Maybe, and maybe not, this remains to be seen. Can it win? Quite possibly. Another Ipswich Alumnus, Frank Yallop, has San Jose playing 442. They're in 1st place overall.


Another point. A lot of people are stating that the US is moving toward 443, and that is, indeed, their stated objective. It remains to be seen, though, if they can actually do it. As others have pointed out, it takes a lot of dedication and training, from a very early age to do it. Unfortunately, the NCAA, the team academies, and others don't actually get hold of the kids until they're in their teens. It has been noted that this is too late.

It would be ironic indeed if the US has as much success getting players to play 433 as Winter did...in which case Mariner and Yallop will be happily winning games.


Finally, a point about playing players "out of position". It just might be within the bounds of possibility that Mariner has seen something in the way that Eckersley and Henry play that warrants switching them. The history of the game is littered with examples of players growing up in one position and finding happiness at another. Ray Kennedy was a very good forward for the very good Arsenal team in the early '70's. Yet, when he went to play for Liverpool, Bob Paisley converted him to an attacking midfielder, where he flourished. In fact, Jimmy Greaves called him "the player of the Decade".

Derko
07-26-2012, 12:44 PM
Poor planning at it's finest if that's the case.

You do have to have some sort of back up plan

ManUtd4ever
07-26-2012, 12:51 PM
At 4 wins, 4 draws and 2 losses, Paul Mariner is doing something right.

For this group of players, at this time, he's got them playing a style which is effective. When the players deviate from it, as they did in the first half against Colorado, they get (rightly) the hair-dryer treatment. In the second half, they played the way Mariner wanted them to play, which is much more of a possession game.

As the team has been winning more games, and getting their confidence back, they are starting to play with the ball more. It's not surprising that going W0-D0-L9 would make a defence believe that the ball is their enemy, not their friend.

Will Mariners TFC always play this way? Maybe, and maybe not, this remains to be seen. Can it win? Quite possibly. Another Ipswich Alumnus, Frank Yallop, has San Jose playing 442. They're in 1st place overall.


Another point. A lot of people are stating that the US is moving toward 443, and that is, indeed, their stated objective. It remains to be seen, though, if they can actually do it. As others have pointed out, it takes a lot of dedication and training, from a very early age to do it. Unfortunately, the NCAA, the team academies, and others don't actually get hold of the kids until they're in their teens. It has been noted that this is too late.

It would be ironic indeed if the US has as much success getting players to play 433 as Winter did...in which case Mariner and Yallop will be happily winning games.


Finally, a point about playing players "out of position". It just might be within the bounds of possibility that Mariner has seen something in the way that Eckersley and Henry play that warrants switching them. The history of the game is littered with examples of players growing up in one position and finding happiness at another. Ray Kennedy was a very good forward for the very good Arsenal team in the early '70's. Yet, when he went to play for Liverpool, Bob Paisley converted him to an attacking midfielder, where he flourished. In fact, Jimmy Greaves called him "the player of the Decade".

Good post.

When Mariner was initially promoted, his harshest critics on this board seemed to unilaterally agree that he should not be given a grace period, and was expected to produce immediate results based on his tenure with the club. He has fulfilled those expectations after his first ten games at the helm, and yet he is still being scrutinized.


#Marinergetsshitdone g:D

denime
07-26-2012, 12:57 PM
Problem between 4-3-3 and 4-4-2 is that most NA players don't have the technical skill, football IQ to play a 4-3-3 which is why MLS teams alternate between a 4-3-3 and 4-4-2.

Until players in NA improve their skill, they will struggle.

But there is hope for the future.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DThjb_XyyoU

(Though you can hear the typical NA parent going nuts in the crowd.)


But that possession style is to complicated for our professionals,just because 10 years old kids in California can do it ,it doesn't mean our players can,not to mention you need someone who is going to teach them how. ;)

Detroit_TFC
07-26-2012, 12:58 PM
It's going to take longer to build a 4-3-3 playing style for US nats than anybody (and Klinsi) expects, not unlike how we found out how difficult it is. It's going to be fits and starts. Caleb Porter uses it at Univ of Akron with great success, but when he tried to do it with US U-23s it was a disaster. Players didn't have it ingrained and were trying to play as instructed instead of naturally, which led to lapses and positional errors, again not unlike TFC.

Richard
07-26-2012, 01:11 PM
Problem between 4-3-3 and 4-4-2 is that most NA players don't have the technical skill, football IQ to play a 4-3-3 which is why MLS teams alternate between a 4-3-3 and 4-4-2.

Until players in NA improve their skill, they will struggle.

But there is hope for the future.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DThjb_XyyoU

(Though you can hear the typical NA parent going nuts in the crowd.)

I think some of those kids have better first touches than a handfull of our players.

Beach_Red
07-26-2012, 01:14 PM
Poor planning at it's finest if that's the case.

Well yeah, that's what we mean by infrastructure. This team has been run in a kind of scramble mode from the very beginning and never put together the kind of FO that can actually do any planning.

ManUtd4ever
07-26-2012, 01:15 PM
It's going to take longer to build a 4-3-3 playing style for US nats than anybody (and Klinsi) expects, not unlike how we found out how difficult it is. It's going to be fits and starts. Caleb Porter uses it at Univ of Akron with great success, but when he tried to do it with US U-23s it was a disaster. Players didn't have it ingrained and were trying to play as instructed instead of naturally, which led to lapses and positional errors, again not unlike TFC.

Stop trying to sound so logical.

sashavukelich
07-26-2012, 01:27 PM
I think some of those kids have better first touches than a handfull of our players.


without a doubt. Sign that #10 up! :)

T-boy
07-26-2012, 01:29 PM
Well yeah, that's what we mean by infrastructure. This team has been run in a kind of scramble mode from the very beginning and never put together the kind of FO that can actually do any planning.

But what team can actually PLAN for losing their key, and number one player? Man Utd struggled horribly without Rooney 2 seasons ago. Look at how Chelsea struggle without John Terry in defence. Some players are just irreplaceable. And Koev's is that man for TFC right now! All the planning in the world can't make up for you losing your key player and the guy who's scored as many goals as him.

I don't think even the best clubs in the world can make up for the loss of their key player. No planning can make up for that loss.

Beach_Red
07-26-2012, 01:46 PM
But what team can actually PLAN for losing their key, and number one player? Man Utd struggled horribly without Rooney 2 seasons ago. Look at how Chelsea struggle without John Terry in defence. Some players are just irreplaceable. And Koev's is that man for TFC right now! All the planning in the world can't make up for you losing your key player and the guy who's scored as many goals as him.

I don't think even the best clubs in the world can make up for the loss of their key player. No planning can make up for that loss.

Sure, but look, some teams are just run better than TFC, that's all there is to it. We haven't had a winning season since joining this league, we haven't a coach for more than a season and a half, we haven't... well, you know, it goes on and on.

v00d00daddy
07-26-2012, 01:51 PM
It's going to take longer to build a 4-3-3 playing style for US nats than anybody (and Klinsi) expects, not unlike how we found out how difficult it is. It's going to be fits and starts. Caleb Porter uses it at Univ of Akron with great success, but when he tried to do it with US U-23s it was a disaster. Players didn't have it ingrained and were trying to play as instructed instead of naturally, which led to lapses and positional errors, again not unlike TFC.


It's not just about the 4-3-3. But even then, there are teams in MLS that are finding success with the 4-3-3. How long did it take them? Would it have taken TFC longer? The same amount of time?

For me it's less about formation (my other favourite team plays a christmas tree formation of a 4-4-2) and more about a mentality.

I don't think that things like long throws or long balls down field or even defenders kicking the ball out of play when under pressure are things that should never be done. There is a time and a place for it all.

But when a coach decides to tell his players that if under any pressure at all...kick it up field....or instructs his players to put long throw throws in to the box everytime we have a throw in the offensive half...or when the main build up of almost every attacking play is one where a long ball is played up to a striker to hold the ball....then it becomes frustrating to watch and support.

Not JUST because I don't like that style (and never have) but also because I think that style is limited in how far it can get a team. It's not going to build champions.

So what was the point? Why not stay the course with the style of play....replace Winter with a coach to continue with the mentality but try to get better results and NOT go to a coach who thinks the exact opposite way of what we were told was going to be brought in to build a long term winning team?

I refuse to accept it. I'm stuck this year but if we continue to build towards playing the current style next year and for some time to come the club will lose me as a supporter and I'm sure lots more will follow.

This club made a decision from day one of it's creation to exclude a huge section of football supporters in Toronto. They didn't cater to those of us who were willing to accept a bad team if it meant building a team that plays in a style that falls in line with what the rest of the world is doing and winning with. The rest of the world including MLS.

And when, after 4 years of garbage, they decided enough was enough and it was time to get into the 21st century, they held that thought for a year and a half.

And they've gone back to pandering to the same old football supporters in this city. Those who were brought up watching and loving football of a style that is DEAD now. That wins nothing. And that many find horrible to watch.

And why?

To ensure that people renew their Season tickets.

PopePouri
07-26-2012, 02:06 PM
It's not just about the 4-3-3. But even then, there are teams in MLS that are finding success with the 4-3-3. How long did it take them? Would it have taken TFC longer? The same amount of time?

All those teams play a direct version of the 4-3-3 not the Ajax system.

Initial B
07-26-2012, 03:12 PM
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/soccer/story/2012/07/26/sp-toronto-fc-part-ways-with-aceval.html

Well, it looks like the other shoe has finally dropped. I guess Silva was the only convict they felt worth keeping, proving that fast legs are not a factor for Mariner's system.

Richard
07-26-2012, 03:37 PM
without a doubt. Sign that #10 up! :)

Honestly, it boggles my mind when I see hoofball being played. There is so much ignorance its unbelievable, its like the advocators think you have to be god when infact all that is needed is the right training focus when the kids are young.

sashavukelich
07-26-2012, 05:10 PM
Honestly, it boggles my mind when I see hoofball being played. There is so much ignorance its unbelievable, its like the advocators think you have to be god when infact all that is needed is the right training focus when the kids are young.

totally. Give this man a medal. playing 'hoofball' is just so much more work, i don't see what the incentive is for the players to play that way. It's crazy.

Alonso
07-26-2012, 06:56 PM
#Marinergetsshitdone!!

Fookin LOVE it Scooter !!!

question. . . thinking about opening a strip joint called
THE PELT ROOM.

I assume I can count on the RPB for support?

The Pelt Room = sold!

Alonso
07-26-2012, 07:15 PM
ya, the more time I spend with stippers the harder it gets. . .


Gold.

greatwhitenorf
07-26-2012, 07:17 PM
#Marinergetsshitdone!!

Fookin LOVE it Scooter !!!

question. . . thinking about opening a strip joint called
THE PELT ROOM.

I assume I can count on the RPB for support?

Have you thought about getting start up capital by approaching Dragon's Den?

Their lovely and talented hostess, Diane Buckner, once worked as an undercover peeler during her student days at Ryerson J-Skule. The piece she wrote appeared in Toronto Life. She's still the business.

Alonso
07-26-2012, 07:25 PM
And so TFC will play that way, too, once those playes are the norm. TFC's problem has always been player aquisition - and it's still the biggest problem. Putting Mariner "in charge" of player aquisition doesn't mean much if there's no infrastructure to be in charge of.

All Mariner did was pick the style that would be the most successful with the players he has - and is likely to get - in the next two years (he has a three-year contract, right? Why would he be worried about anything past that now?).


Any length of contract is meaningless when it comes to TFC and MLSE because they don't honour them.

When has a coach with this club ever coached the actual length of the contract?!?

ML$E are douche bags, who throw their coaches under the bus every chance they get!

Oldtimer
07-26-2012, 07:34 PM
All those teams play a direct version of the 4-3-3 not the Ajax system.

It's more direct than Ajax, but is more possession-oriented than Mariner's hoofball. The Ajax system is probably too complex for your NCAA journeyman graduate, but what I wanted to see with Winter gone was a simpler possession-based system. That's the real future in MLS, not some variation on Dutch football, or MLS 1.0 circa 1998 hoofball.

Blizzard
07-26-2012, 08:09 PM
Any length of contract is meaningless when it comes to TFC and MLSE because they don't honour them.

When has a coach with this club ever coached the actual length of the contract?!?

ML$E are douche bags, who throw their coaches under the bus every chance they get!


Honouring the contract means continuing to pay your coach after you've let him go that's why Preki and Winter are still being paid by TFC.

As for the throwing under the bus thing, ya, that happens.

Auzzy
07-26-2012, 08:15 PM
^ I thought Preki was paid until the end of 2011.

Winter was "offered a different position" with TFC but declined. Not surprised if that let's them meet in the middle RE a settlement, e.g., pay him until the end of 2012 (rather than the end of 2013 as per contract).

Alonso
07-27-2012, 12:56 AM
Honouring the contract means continuing to pay your coach after you've let him go that's why Preki and Winter are still being paid by TFC.

As for the throwing under the bus thing, ya, that happens.

Semantics.

Legally, you're right, but neither of these situations meet any criteria that I know of for being honourable.

What I meant was the fact that not a single coaches contract has been seen through to completion for the original agreed to length of term.

Am I wrong here?

ag futbol
07-27-2012, 01:47 AM
Technically, wasn't Chris Cummins non-renewed? Although, from his press conference I think he had an idea of where he wanted them to stick their coaching job.