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Wooster_TFC
07-15-2008, 09:00 AM
Definitions:
Domestic: Any US citizen (includes Puerto Rico) or another player who has a Green Card or any Canadian citizen, permanent resident, or part of a protected status
International: Any non-domestic.

2011
8 I from league
1 I trade for Huckerby (end of 2013)
1 I trade for allocation order swap (end of 2011)
1 I trade with San Jose (end of 2012)

Current Roster Limits:

30 Spots (33/30)

11 International Spots (14/11)
3 DPs (3/3)

Roster:

Domestic
Canadian (10)

Adrian Cann [SEI]
Oscar Cordon
Julian de Guzman (DP)
Terry Dunfield
Doneil Henry
Nicholas Lindsay [SEI]
Keith Makabuya
Ashtone Morgan
Matt Stinson
Gianluca Zavarise

US (10)

Eric Avila
Danleigh Borman
Kyle Davies
Matt Gold
Ty Harden
Andy Iro
Ryan Johnson
Peri Marosevic
Demetrius Omphroy
Nathan Sturgis

International (13)

Elbekay Bouchiba [SEI]
Richard Eckersley
Stefan Frei [green card?]
Torsten Frings (DP)
Leandre Griffit
Milos Kocic [green card? permanent resident?]
Danny Koevermans (DP)
Javier Martina
Joao Plata
Nick Soolsma
Eddy Viator
Dicoy Williams [SEI]
Mikael Yourassowsky

History of Roster Spots

2007

7 SI from league (3 US only - TFC only)
5 YI from league (2 TFC only - end of 2008)
+1 YI in trade for Cancela (end of 2009)

2008

9 I from league (No more SI/YI designations - 2 TFC Only, end of 2008)
3 US from league
1 I trade for Cancela (end of 2009)

+1 I from league
+2 US from league (end of 2009)

+1 I trade for Phelan (end of 2010)
+1 I trade for Huckerby (end of 2013)

2009

8 I from league
5 US from league (2 end of 2009)
1 I trade for Cancela (end of 2009)
1 I trade for Phelan (end of 2010)
1 I trade for Huckerby (end of 2013)
1 I trade for allocation order swap (end of 2011)

2010

8 I from league
8 US from league
1 I trade for Phelan (end of 2010)
1 I trade for Huckerby (end of 2013)
1 I trade for allocation order swap (end of 2011)


Sources:
League Regulations: http://web.mlsnet.com/about/league.jsp?section=regulations&content=overview
TFC Roster: http://web.mlsnet.com/players/roster.jsp?club=t280
Huckerby Trade: http://www.thescore.ca/blogs/footy/index.asp?name=footy/2008/07/press_release_h_1.html
Phelan Trade: http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/2008/06/04/tfc_trade_phelan/
TFC Whiteboard Picture: http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c141/PhJD/64404.jpg
Cancela Trade: http://njmg.typepad.com/sbi/2007/04/toronto_trades_.html
Barrett Trade: http://www.thescore.ca/blogs/footy/index.asp?name=footy/2008/07/just_another_24_1.html#more
Allocation Swap Trade: http://www.soccerbyives.net/soccer_by_ives/2009/01/clarifying-the-felix-garcia-signing.html
Update of Roster Spots:http://www.24thminute.com/2010/04/tfc-roster-breakdown.html

Wooster_TFC
07-15-2008, 09:03 AM
Some things I'd like to find out (still searching).

1. Who did we trade for the extra SI in 2007, and when does it expire?
2. When does the league donated +3 US and +2 YIs donated in 2007 expire?
3. Does Amado Guevara actually have a green card and therefore count as US? I'm pretty confident on the rest of the roster, just not sure on him.

Nuvinho
07-15-2008, 09:05 AM
this is an excellent post!!!

as for the SI spot in 2007, it was from the rapids I think for Conor Casey. I think also it expires end of this year.

Shaughno
07-15-2008, 09:05 AM
99% sure on Guevara's green card.

Ossington Mental Youth
07-15-2008, 09:06 AM
Defo excellent post.
Itd be nice to get the expiry dates on all those SI spots

noochie
07-15-2008, 09:11 AM
Some things I'd like to find out (still searching).

1. Who did we trade for the extra SI in 2007, and when does it expire?
2. When does the league donated +3 US and +2 YIs donated in 2007 expire?
3. Does Amado Guevara actually have a green card and therefore count as US? I'm pretty confident on the rest of the roster, just not sure on him.

The 2 additional I slots expire at the end of the 2009 season, when the CBA is up for renegotitation. The +3 for US currently don't expire.

Wooster_TFC
07-15-2008, 09:11 AM
this is an excellent post!!!

as for the SI spot in 2007, it was from the rapids I think for Conor Casey. I think also it expires end of this year.

That's what I thought, but all I can find on searching is allocation + 3rd round pick + rights to canadian Riley O'Neill in the trade for Casey.

Nuvinho
07-15-2008, 09:13 AM
That's what I thought, but all I can find on searching is allocation + 3rd round pick + rights to canadian Riley O'Neill in the trade for Casey.


I remember somewhere on this board (old board I think) they posted we got a YI or SI spot.

noochie
07-15-2008, 09:17 AM
That's what I thought, but all I can find on searching is allocation + 3rd round pick + rights to canadian Riley O'Neill in the trade for Casey.

That is where MLS terms play on words... "allocation" can mean roster spot (i.e. International Allocation) OR spot in allocation ranking order for players entering MLS.

Good ol' MLS :rolleyes:

Wooster_TFC
07-15-2008, 09:24 AM
Updated to include Casey trade, and make it clear which ones are league wide and TFC only, as well as adding ? to expirations we don't know.

Wooster_TFC
07-15-2008, 09:28 AM
That is where MLS terms play on words... "allocation" can mean roster spot (i.e. International Allocation) OR spot in allocation ranking order for players entering MLS.

Good ol' MLS :rolleyes:

OR allocation $ towards a signing :P

rocker
07-15-2008, 09:35 AM
this was posted on the old board from one of our spies in the TFC dressing room ;)

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c141/PhJD/64404.jpg

noochie
07-15-2008, 09:37 AM
OR allocation $ towards a signing :P

touche

Wooster_TFC
07-15-2008, 09:44 AM
this was posted on the old board from one of our spies in the TFC dressing room ;)



So based on the picture, the 2 extra YIs expire end of 2009, but no real information on the american slots (actually looks like it's supposed to increase next year.)

Does it also appear the one gained from the Casey trade expires in 2009, or would that reference the +1 added in 2008 to ALL teams?

andyc
07-15-2008, 10:01 AM
That picture was taken back in Feb/Mar this year so it could be a little out of date...

Wooster_TFC
07-15-2008, 10:02 AM
That picture was taken back in Feb/Mar this year so it could be a little out of date...

Which is why I'm using it to add to my information, not to base my information off of. It does confirm that we started the year with 16 non-canadians though, and added 2 through trading Phelan and Huckerby.

Velvet Elvis
07-15-2008, 10:04 AM
Wooster ... thanks !!! I have tripped over these rules several times now.

Fantastic post.


( very BringBacktheBlizzard !!! )

Wooster_TFC
07-15-2008, 11:59 AM
Does anyone know if Killian Elkinson is canadian? I seem to remember reading/hearing something, but can't find it right now.

rocker
07-15-2008, 12:03 PM
he's gotta be, right? because the international thang applies to the whole 28 man roster... I don't think he was taking up one..

Wooster_TFC
07-15-2008, 12:11 PM
he's gotta be, right? because the international thang applies to the whole 28 man roster... I don't think he was taking up one..

That was my understanding (which is why I put him under Canadian in the dev list, but I don't have any source, and the roster lists him as being born in Bermuda although I thought he grew up in Canada?)

He and Guevara were the only two I weren't 100% sure about when I made the list up, so I went with my gut.

Just trying to confirm to be thorough.

koryo
07-15-2008, 12:15 PM
Very informative post Wooster. Thanks to this, I might come across as though I know what I'm on about half the time.

Then again...

oxygenatedbrain
07-15-2008, 12:16 PM
Wow...a thread about all this shit...what a great idea...

Casey trade: undisclosed allocations, 3rd round pick, Riley

Cancela trade: YI spot...

No?

Wooster_TFC
07-15-2008, 12:20 PM
Wow...a thread about all this shit...what a great idea...

Casey trade: undisclosed allocations, 3rd round pick, Riley

Cancela trade: YI spot...

No?

You are quite correct, and now I have a source to prove it. Updated.

brad
07-15-2008, 12:20 PM
99% sure on Guevara's green card.

Correct, assuming you trust wikipedia as the source:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amado_Guevara


He received his green card (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_card) in March 2006 and no longer counts as a foreign player in MLS.

Wooster_TFC
07-15-2008, 12:25 PM
Correct, assuming you trust wikipedia as the source:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amado_Guevara

Thanks for the update, but for now I'm going to avoid trying to provide source information from wikipedia, considering it's a little volatile sometimes.

Also, I've decided I'm not going to post sources for every player that is US/Canadian since that would fill up my sources majorly. Anything that's somewhat of a question mark though (duration of I spots for example) I will be sourcing.

Thanks!

Razcle
07-15-2008, 02:14 PM
Thanks for the update, but for now I'm going to avoid trying to provide source information from wikipedia, considering it's a little volatile sometimes.

Also, I've decided I'm not going to post sources for every player that is US/Canadian since that would fill up my sources majorly. Anything that's somewhat of a question mark though (duration of I spots for example) I will be sourcing.

Thanks!

Wooster....where in Waterloo are you? Working or going to school?

Wooster_TFC
07-15-2008, 03:06 PM
Wooster....where in Waterloo are you? Working or going to school?

Already done the school thing at UW, then for some reason decided to stick around and do the work thing.

Wooster_TFC
07-25-2008, 03:25 PM
Does anyone know if the I and US slots mean anything? As in, do we have to declare a certain player as I, or is it just a limit set?

For example, if Cunningham was using a US spot, and Velez was using an I spot, does that mean trading Cunningham allows us to slot Velez into the US spot, and bring in another I player?

I'm assuming that this is the case, but just curious.

professor
07-26-2008, 10:01 AM
Does anyone know if Killian Elkinson is canadian? I seem to remember reading/hearing something, but can't find it right now.

He is not a Canadian.
He is in Canada as a student, on a visa, which facilitates a "domestic" or Canadian interpretation for MLS/TFC purposes. He attends or did attend UCC in Toronto. Although his mother & father are Irish, the family calls Bermuda home. His legal guardian here in Canada is in Mississauga, where he also "lives".

professor
07-26-2008, 11:04 AM
deleted as per a request

Wooster_TFC
07-26-2008, 01:09 PM
He is not a Canadian.
He is in Canada as a student, on a visa, which facilitates a "domestic" or Canadian interpretation for MLS/TFC purposes. He attends or did attend UCC in Toronto. Although his mother & father are Irish, the family calls Bermuda home. His legal guardian here in Canada is in Mississauga, where he also "lives".


When I refer to "Canadian" or "American" they can generally be substituted for "counts as canadian" and "counts as american" :)

Thanks for the email. I might see about emailing him once I have some this all sorted in my head, and I have specific questions.

professor
08-15-2008, 09:48 PM
Don't know if this is totally accurate, but close

the Allocation list

1. Colorado (Cory Gibbs signed officially????)
2. Toronto
3. New York
4. Dallas
5. Chivas USA
6. D.C.
7. Kansas City
8. Chicago
9. Columbus
10. Houston
11. RSL
12. San Jose
13. New England
14. Los Angeles

Wooster_TFC
08-17-2008, 10:42 AM
Don't know if this is totally accurate, but close

the Allocation list

1. Colorado (Cory Gibbs signed officially????)
2. Toronto
3. New York
4. Dallas
5. Chivas USA
6. D.C.
7. Kansas City
8. Chicago
9. Columbus
10. Houston
11. RSL
12. San Jose
13. New England
14. Los Angeles


I thought Toronto used the revs number 2 to get Johann Smith. Doesn't that mean we move back down to the bottom?

Wooster_TFC
01-16-2009, 09:50 AM
Anyone know what our international spot status is?

Based on the information I have in the original post, we should lose two I spots for this coming year.

Nuvinho
01-16-2009, 11:58 AM
I saw somewhere 16?

Wooster_TFC
01-16-2009, 12:59 PM
I saw somewhere 16?

16!?!?!

I don't know how that would work. We had 13 at the end of last season, and were supposed to lose two that were given to us as an expansion team. I seriously doubt the league would be upping the number of international players league-wide by 5 per team...

We also seem to be trying to get more canadians, I would assume it has to do with this.

If I don't find anything good in the next couple of days, I'll update the list with the assumption we have 11 I spots and 5 US spots.

Sigh, which of course makes 16 :P

rocker
01-28-2009, 03:29 PM
add another INT roster spot:

the Houston Dynamo completed a trade with Toronto FC to swap places in the MLS allocation order. Houston sent Toronto an international player slot for two years in exchange for moving up from No. 10 to the No. 3 spot in the league's allocation order.

http://www.soccerbyives.net/soccer_by_ives/2009/01/clarifying-the-felix-garcia-signing.html

Wooster_TFC
01-28-2009, 03:31 PM
Interesting, thanks for the update!

Shway
02-09-2009, 08:05 PM
please can someone tell me how many spots we have left now that vitti is signed?

rocker
02-09-2009, 08:12 PM
according to the list above recently edited by Wooster TFC, it looks like with the addition of Vitti we have 18 of 20 spots filled with trialists like Hall, Richardson, McGlinchey and Kenton fighting for the last 2 spots.

Shway
02-09-2009, 08:17 PM
^thanks mate

Ossington Mental Youth
02-09-2009, 08:47 PM
Gotta love that,
"fighting for hte last two spots"

Wooster_TFC
02-24-2009, 01:09 PM
Updated with Rosenlund gone and Serioux signed.

Wooster_TFC
03-04-2009, 01:09 PM
Updated with the new Gambians, as well as the updated TFC site.

According to the roster on the site, the only dev players are Frei, Ibrahim and the new gambian fellow, so it looks like we are full up on senior roster spots, although I highly doubt Gala would have gotten a senior roster spot at this stage, if they wouldn't give one to Rosenlund.

Wooster_TFC
06-23-2009, 11:20 AM
Updated to include release of Ricketts and signing of Gerba.

Brooker
07-28-2009, 09:28 PM
is there a reason US teams draw so poorly for the CCL and US Cup?

are they just sick of these tournys?

Wooster_TFC
01-21-2010, 04:00 PM
Updated to add the Peterson trade.

Can anyone confirm that my numbers for 2010 season are correct?

prizby
02-05-2010, 10:43 AM
any updates?

where are we on the allocation pecking list

Nuvinho
02-05-2010, 10:48 AM
any updates?

where are we on the allocation pecking list

I think we are 4th.

San Jose
KCW
Dallas
TFC

Wooster_TFC
02-05-2010, 02:11 PM
I haven't been keeping up with the allocation order, but I can try and find an updated list and post it. It's one of the inner workings of MLS that isn't communicated very well as far as I can tell.

EDIT: found the updated allocation list here: http://wvhooligan.com/2010/01/29/update-mls-allocation-order/

Wooster_TFC
03-11-2010, 12:55 PM
Updated to add Harden, Herold remove Serioux, Robinson.

Does anyone know the status of Gomez and Gala? They were supposedly Dev last year, but with 3 GAs they both can't be Dev anymore. Also with the rumour of signing a guy from the academy to a Dev contract, I'm guessing neither of them are Dev.

Wooster_TFC
04-05-2010, 05:55 PM
Alrighty then, people with more contacts than I will have to try and figure this one out. According to what we have here, we are now over our american/international limit with the release of Gerba and signing of Joseph.

Anyone know anything?

Oldtimer
04-06-2010, 02:51 PM
All MLS teams get eight international slots. TFC has been given an additional eight slots that must be used on Americans (it was five, but that was bumped up without notice this year.

http://www.24thminute.com/2010/04/tfc-roster-breakdown.html

Wooster_TFC
04-06-2010, 05:13 PM
http://www.24thminute.com/2010/04/tfc-roster-breakdown.html

Great catch! Thread updated.

Wooster_TFC
07-07-2010, 12:20 PM
Does anyone know if Joseph and Frei actually count as international spots? Not that it matters in the current context, but I'd rather have it right.

jabbronies
07-07-2010, 12:34 PM
Does anyone know if Joseph and Frei actually count as international spots? Not that it matters in the current context, but I'd rather have it right.

Frei is a Swiss player. He is wants to get capped by the Swiss team, so i'm going to say he's an international.

Nane is from Cameroon and there's no indication he's looking at the US or CDN squad. Safe to say he is one as well.

deltox
07-07-2010, 12:38 PM
currently, Frei is considered a Generation Adidias player and does not count as an INTL spot

JonO
07-07-2010, 12:39 PM
I think you are right that they count as internationals (except maybe Frei - see above), but the national team on which they play has little bearing as to whether they count as internationals for MLS rules.

For example, Guevara could count as a US player, rather than international, because he had a green card (I believe). Similarly, Canadians with dual citizenship could swing both ways, regardless of which national teach they choose to play for (if any)

deltox
07-07-2010, 12:41 PM
like when dichio applied to become a CDN citizen. he turned from an intl player to domestic...but he would not be allowed to play for Canada

JonO
07-07-2010, 12:54 PM
^ I think it may have even been permanent resident (rather than citizenship) status, but it's all changed since I went through it...

Wooster_TFC
07-07-2010, 12:57 PM
I wondered if they were, regardless of their nationalities, because they both came through the NCAA that they had American permanent resident status to qualify as Americans.

Gen Adidas has nothing to do with domestic/american/international designation, and only has to do with the salary cap.

Wooster_TFC
07-14-2011, 04:24 PM
I have no idea how this adds up, unless Frei/Tchani have green cards. There have always been rumours about Frei, but never found anything concrete.

Anyone know if Kocic counts as canadian or something?

Voodooman
07-14-2011, 10:33 PM
He played for the Serbian U21 squad, so I dont think he is classified as Canadian.

CSO_BBTB
07-15-2011, 01:41 AM
The key on that isn't who you play for in national team terms but whether you have the right of permanent residence in either Canada (landed immigrant status) or the United States (green card). Odds on Kocic does qualify somehow as domestic in that regard because I seriously doubt Mariner/Winter would use an international roster spot on a rarely used backup when they could have replaced him with somebody like Monsalve but I've not seen anything definitive on that.
___________
Any reference to "we" means the same thing it did on Simon's board five years ago (i.e. TFC in general or the entire TFC support).

ryan
07-15-2011, 07:40 AM
TSN reported that the SJ Int'l spot is till January 2013.

Ageroo
07-15-2011, 07:48 AM
I have no idea how this adds up, unless Frei/Tchani have green cards. There have always been rumours about Frei, but never found anything concrete.

Anyone know if Kocic counts as canadian or something?


I am pretty sure Frei and Tchani have green cards....i don't think they qualify as internationals. Ryan Johnson may have a green card as well......but I could be wrong.

Wooster_TFC
07-15-2011, 08:12 AM
I am pretty sure Frei and Tchani have green cards....i don't think they qualify as internationals. Ryan Johnson may have a green card as well......but I could be wrong.

As far as I'm aware Johnson is American (or counts as one) considering he moved there when he was a kid.

You'd assume so, but the link I found about Borman last year showed Borman with a green card, and Tchani without (it was a NYRB thing). Haven't found anything definitive about Frei or Kocic either.

It wouldn't surprise me if Kocic has landed immigrant or whatever because he's from Yugoslavia originally. Also, I'm convinced that Bouchiba has been placed on long term injury, meaning his int spot clears up I believe.

CSO_BBTB
07-15-2011, 09:01 AM
Maybe Eckersley was shoehorned in as Bouchiba's injury replacement? Having to trade for an extra international roster spot to fit in one of the DP signings would have been risky because other teams would potentially have been able to drive a hard bargain. The exact details of who got signed using which mechanism are difficult to follow sometimes.
___________
Any reference to "we" means the same thing it did on Simon's board five years ago (i.e. TFC in general or the entire TFC support).

Wooster_TFC
07-15-2011, 09:08 AM
Correct. We have no idea who's on long or short term injury list, and technically until today we didn't have to fit Frings and Koevermans on our contract list, so while the INT spot may not have been required to fit Frings or Koevermans, the roster space might have been.

That said, I don't believe it would be a guy on a re-callable loan that would have been signed as an injury replacement. More likely is that Frings was signed as Bouchiba's "injury replacement" with respect to INT spots.

I believe (although it's never in writing) that MLS frowns on an injury replacement signing not being like for like, so you have to kind of sign a midfielder to replace a midfielder, and a forward to replace a forward.

rocker
07-15-2011, 10:19 AM
I thought people were saying that Dicoy Williams was on the long term injury list? I always wondered where the official information was posted.

Wooster_TFC
07-15-2011, 10:21 AM
I thought people were saying that Dicoy Williams was on the long term injury list? I always wondered where the official information was posted.

It isn't.

DichioTFC
07-15-2011, 10:24 AM
I have no idea how this adds up, unless Frei/Tchani have green cards. There have always been rumours about Frei, but never found anything concrete.

Anyone know if Kocic counts as canadian or something?

I get the feeling if they've been in the US for longer than 5 years, they'll have a green card.

4 years max for a US study permit, upon expiry the person must apply for green card or work permit - and there's no way MLS-level soccer players can get a work permit because of the ad hoc nature of their work (never guaranteed).

So if they played soccer in the NCAA (study permit), and are still in the US years later, odds are that they have a green card now.

DichioTFC
07-15-2011, 10:26 AM
I thought people were saying that Dicoy Williams was on the long term injury list? I always wondered where the official information was posted.

It isn't posted, but he is on the long term injury list. He tore his MCL, that takes three months to recover from.

The earliest we could hope to have him back is if playoffs were on the line in our last match of the year, but even then, he wont be match fit.

Wooster_TFC
07-15-2011, 01:20 PM
Update with new trades, we are now over both the roster limit and the international limit, but technically I think we were over the roster limit before the trade yesterday (3 for 2) and would two over when Stefanovic was sent back.

So I'm guessing that Bouchiba and Lindsay are definitely on long term injured reserve, with the possibility of Cann and Williams being added soon.

oxygenatedbrain
07-16-2011, 07:28 PM
I think I mentioned this to you somewhere before; the Ives link on the Felix Garcia switch in January 2009 states that the slot is for the next two years...which would have been 2009 and 2010.

CSO_BBTB
07-17-2011, 04:58 AM
I believe (although it's never in writing) that MLS frowns on an injury replacement signing not being like for like, so you have to kind of sign a midfielder to replace a midfielder, and a forward to replace a forward.

Any sources on that like an Ives Galarcep blog entry or something? The following signings happened in chronological order during the winter window that were not homegrown players, draft picks or trades within the league:

1 Elbekay Bouchiba
2 Nick Soolsma
3 Javier Martina
4 Gianluca Zavarise
5 Mikael Yourassowsky
6 Alex Stevanovic
7 Dicoy Williams
8 Richard Eckersley

I think the first five plus Williams were probably the six 2011 discovery signings. I don't think there is a separate loan category so Stevanovic was probably based on the use of allocation money received for missing the 2010 playoffs and I think by process of elimination that means Eckersley must have been an injury replacement effectively taking Bouchiba's international roster spot in the process and that also explains why there can be 31 rather than 30 players on the roster right now. Inquiring minds like to know basically so posting my rationale to see what insights others can provide.

Shway
07-17-2011, 11:59 AM
QUICK QUESTION:

:When players are loaned out to a D2 or D3 squad, does their roster spot still count towards the cap?

CSO_BBTB
07-17-2011, 12:02 PM
Here's the link to check:

http://www.mlssoccer.com/2011-mls-roster-rules

Shway
07-18-2011, 12:44 PM
I have checked that before,but it really doesnt explain if so....

I know in the past it has

CSO_BBTB
07-18-2011, 12:56 PM
Given loans are listed alongside transfers under "Methods of releasing players" looks to me like the roster spot and cap hit are probably cleared. The need for the player's approval would probably be seen as the safeguard against abuse of the system.

Wooster_TFC
07-18-2011, 01:47 PM
Given loans are listed alongside transfers under "Methods of releasing players" looks to me like the roster spot and cap hit are probably cleared. The need for the player's approval would probably be seen as the safeguard against abuse of the system.

I'm betting that there's a cap hit equal to the amount of time they were on their MLS team, so loaning out Sutton didn't suddenly give them 100k to work with, more like 50k or something.

Wooster_TFC
07-20-2011, 02:17 PM
Added Viator, further complicating the international roster spot issue.

Wooster_TFC
10-20-2011, 09:43 AM
Bump. Since there appears to be some confusion on who counts as an international.