Toronto Front Office - Who's In Charge of Recruiting Players?

[Pendrith]

I know theat Paul Mariner is the coach and Paul Cochrane is also involved in the front office but who is ultimatelly responsible to sign and negotiate with possible new players?

[Whoop]

Isn't it Mariner?

[MartinUtd]

What's BDK doing now?

[cmonyoureds]

in order to answer that question, we need to find out who spcifically you are looking for.
are you looking for the person who has that in his job description? OR the person who can take the recommendations of that person and sign off on them? OR the person who can disregard both those options and veto the signing anyway? OR perhaps T.A who can apparently put his fingers into anything for approval/disapproval?

sadly, this convoluted matrix is quite possibly the actual scenario.......

[ManUtd4ever]

I'm not sure who this Paul Cochrane character is...perhaps he's been the primary culprit all along. g:D

[Beach_Red]

Isn't it Mariner?

Negotiate and sign? It's one thing to identify a player it's another to negotiate the contract details. It just always seems this stage of player aquisition takes TFC a lot longer than any other team.

[T-boy]

It's always been a little vague. Cochrane said it was "himself and Mariner" in charge of player acquisitions. But - that doesn't necessarily mean they are in charge of 1. scouting the player, 2. approaching a club for a trade, AND 3. negotiating the trade with the club and MLS. It could mean they were just doing parts 2 and 3. Or could mean all 3. I'm not sure, and I don't think anybody knows for sure.

[Pookie]

Don't the first few, all legitimate replies, to this simple question tell you all that you need to know about the structure Tom Anselmi has created/let fester?

[TOBOR !]

the real answer to the OP's question is 'the brain trust'.

[Phil]

Anyone ever watch the movie 'Moneyball'?

Welcome to North American sports, its all run that way IMO. Everyone has titles, but its about connections.

[Fort York Redcoat]

We all need ONE person to blame. NA is full of these ethereal brain trusts that can hold their hands up when it comes time for accountability.

[ag futbol]

Don't the first few, all legitimate replies, to this simple question tell you all that you need to know about the structure Tom Anselmi has created/let fester?
Agreed. I think it might be time for a formalized sporting director / manager structure.

When it comes to TFC scouting: I think the league office gets used quite a bit (as it does for all teams). What I would like to know is how much does does TFC look on their own accord and how does the way we look for players compare to other teams. Something definitely seems off... or at least it always has previously.

[ag futbol]

We all need ONE person to blame. NA is full of these ethereal brain trusts that can hold their hands up when it comes time for accountability.
Legitimate question: how many managers in MLS have we seen go down on account of poor scouting? I think part of the problem is the quality of press for the league is still really poor and the non-disclosure of contract terms by the league makes it difficult to criticize. We'd probably look at the Aceval deal a lot differently if we found out he was making 60k instead of 200k.

Has anybody covering TFC ever written an article about the front office's relationship with First Wave / Santio Sports? or our continued problems in the area?

[TOBOR !]

Hey - since everyone's in this thread (well, mostly), does anyone know what's going on with our Thursday / Friday Press Conference to announce a new signing ?

Or do you think someone read these forums and thought better of parading Quincy in front of the meeja ?

[Phil]

I would suggest the ownership change is creating havok. Total speculation, but with the Liverpool friendly and all that is going on, I can totally see them sitting on things.

[Fort York Redcoat]

^Phil are you saying we're signing a Liverpool player! That's amazing! I'm tweeting it right now as fact.;)

[Pookie]

Well, 7 shopping days left till the window closes. I guess we'll see if Mariner likes the guys that Winter, er, Cochrane, er, that he, um, maybe de Klerk identified and signed or whether there are new ones on the way.

On the scouting front, it is a bit of a mystery. I can't confirm all of this but my belief in talking with various writers and some ex folks directly is that we have 6 part time scouts looking at the region of Ottawa through London in order to "identify" kids for the Academy. I also know from various Clubs and more than 1 SAAC member that the feeling is that they are "very disorganized"

I do believe that they have 5 individuals that scout for them in the US. What isn't clear is whether they are independent, exclusive to TFC or part of a pool of scouts. At one point, with Tim Regan, we had one of the more respected scouts in NA but he wasn't able to be retained. My belief is that he was the main guy who received info from part-timers, agents etc.

In keeping with the made up position tradition that is TFC, Regan was replaced by Nick Dasovic as the North American Scout. Nick, who had no scouting experience, tweeted once that he was more of a frequent flyer than a scout.

I do know that many MLS teams are part of a broader international scouting network called wyscout.com. Big name clubs belong to this like FC Barcelona and hundreds of others. LA, Vancouver, Seattle, and without looking it up again about 8 other MLS clubs belong to it. The goal here is to bring video and reports together and allow teams to review available international talent.

TFC does not participate in this.

[Whoop]

TFC has never had a proper scouting system/network.

I remember asking Mariner that at the town hall and it sounded like they had all their attention focused solely on the NCAA.

Don't know what kind of network/relationships they have with people in the rest of the world.

[Whoop]

Pookie - that's an extensive list at wyscout.com

I see Montreal in there but no Toronto FC.

[CoachGT]

I know that TFC have as many as 6 or 7 scouts, most of whom are part time. I've met a couple of them. The last full time scout on the staff was Tim Regan (at least, that I'm aware of). If I hear correctly, Tim was offered more responsibility here (meaning relocate here) but wanted to stay in the US for personal reasons. The US national team offered him a position and that's where he is now. But I'd be surprised if he doesn't still connect with the TFC folks.

Few teams in many sports have a full staff of full time scouts. Most NHL scouts I've ever known had a day job. A few were full time, but not many - usually former players.

Phil's reference to Moneyball is pretty close to the picture I've been invovled in with a few hockey teams. Ultimately, the GM/Head Coach is responsible for the ultimate decision, but the opinions of a bunch of people are taken into consideration. And usually players are identified through contacts (sometimes through other players - Mista for example). In North America, that may mean minor league coaches or school/university connections. In Europe, I'd suspect it means personal connections with players (a friend of a friend). Add to that any "affiliations", like ours with the Bermuda club - that ends up being a source of info about players (both their own and guys they play against). I'd be very surprised if there are not still connections with Carver and Cummins within TFC, and that both would help out in the right situation.

If you read through Frings' blog (yes, he does one) he mentions that he came to Toronto at the request of Klinsmann. I'd suspect that Klinsmann still has a connection here and is willing to use his considerable influence.

Toronto is not much different than other clubs in this regard, not better, not worse. The difference is with the direction of the academy structure. It will take years for that to pan out (despite a handful of recent successes) and develop players according to a model that the team wants. But TFC has something that others didn't - modeling yourself after some of the bigger European clubs (Ajax, Barcelona, and some of the EPL academies) is okay - most of those had nobody to use as a model and it took them a lot longer to build their academies to the levels that they are today. And for those that have come to some of the coaching sessions we've held in the past, you would know that TFC has in fact had discussions with some of those clubs about their academy structures.

[Whoop]

I can only speak in regards to NHL teams but a large number of them have at least 6 full-time scouts, some more, and usually about a dozen part-timers, the guys with the day jobs.

Usually the breakdown is, at mininum, one guy covering Eastern Canada/US, two in the central/midwest, two in the west, one in Europe. Other teams break it down differently, one in Quebec, one or two in Toronto, two in the west, one or two in the US, one or two in Europe. These guys also do cross-overs. These numbers don't only include management.

These are usually supplemented by various part-timers who stick to one area.

Football is relatively the same you have about 8-12 guys who cover the US. Baseball is nuts where you have very large staffs. Some teams have about 20 guys each responsible for a state or various states.

The soccer community is a little different because usually European teams rely on their local network to build up their youth teams and then rely on various agents/contacts in various parts of the world, be it agents, former players, etc.

Though I still don't understand why a team like TFC couldn't have one or two guys in Europe (one based in London and one based in Frankfurt/Munich for travel ease or in Scandinavia which has similar leagues to MLS) or one or two in South America (one in Brazil and one in Argentina again for travel ease) to supplement the guys they have covering players locally or in the States. Or you can take one guy out of Europe due to the high cost of getting a player out of Europe and place him in Africa perhaps, likely South Africa. The compensation would be a drop in the bucket for an organization like MLSE and could have significant financial impact down the road if they find the right players.

Relying on outside parties you're subjecting yourself to people who have their own agendas and not the interests of the team at heart.

[Damien]

What about Tim Regan? I remember he was installed as a scout a few years back.
Dunno if he's still around with the massive turnover we've had.

[Pookie]

If you read through Frings' blog (yes, he does one) he mentions that he came to Toronto at the request of Klinsmann. I'd suspect that Klinsmann still has a connection here and is willing to use his considerable influence.



Good insight on Frings' arrival. Question for you (or the group here), on the connection to TFC part of your statement.

What would make you think that Klinsmann has any interest in or a connection to TFC now that he has accepted his role with the US program? TFC definitely has an apparent aim to help the CSA/CMNT. Klinsmann got involved with us prior to accepting the role with the US.

Further, considering TFC has abandoned his plan with the first team, what would be his incentive to help a Canadian MLS club succeed?

[CSO_BBTB]

What's BDK doing now?

Unless he is genuinely involved with the Academy odds on he is very much in limbo probably in the hope he will resign and go back to the Netherlands so they can get him off the payroll.

[Shakes McQueen]

If I had to guess, I'd say Mariner decides who he wants the club to target, or what type of player he's looking for. I suspect Cochrane takes care of the actual nitty gritty of the contracts, though I wouldn't be shocked if Mariner is there for all of it as well.

- Scott

[Brooker]

---> insert conspiracy theory here <---

[ManUtd4ever]

---> insert conspiracy theory here <---

LOL

BTW, it looks like your avatar was ahead of it's time. g:D

[Huyton]

I can only speak in regards to NHL teams but a large number of them have at least 6 full-time scouts, some more, and usually about a dozen part-timers, the guys with the day jobs.

Usually the breakdown is, at mininum, one guy covering Eastern Canada/US, two in the central/midwest, two in the west, one in Europe. Other teams break it down differently, one in Quebec, one or two in Toronto, two in the west, one or two in the US, one or two in Europe. These guys also do cross-overs. These numbers don't only include management.

These are usually supplemented by various part-timers who stick to one area.

Football is relatively the same you have about 8-12 guys who cover the US. Baseball is nuts where you have very large staffs. Some teams have about 20 guys each responsible for a state or various states.

The soccer community is a little different because usually European teams rely on their local network to build up their youth teams and then rely on various agents/contacts in various parts of the world, be it agents, former players, etc.

Though I still don't understand why a team like TFC couldn't have one or two guys in Europe (one based in London and one based in Frankfurt/Munich for travel ease or in Scandinavia which has similar leagues to MLS) or one or two in South America (one in Brazil and one in Argentina again for travel ease) to supplement the guys they have covering players locally or in the States. Or you can take one guy out of Europe due to the high cost of getting a player out of Europe and place him in Africa perhaps, likely South Africa. The compensation would be a drop in the bucket for an organization like MLSE and could have significant financial impact down the road if they find the right players.

Relying on outside parties you're subjecting yourself to people who have their own agendas and not the interests of the team at heart.

I wonder if Mariner would slip Steve Nicol a few bucks every now and then to go and check on a guy.

[billyfly]

I volunteer to scout the Portuguese league. Pay me enough to have a car and toll road fees.

[gm-tfc]

According to the Scout7 wesbite, TFC is one of their clients and they use this service. See second last row.
http://info.scout7.com/Clients.aspx?lang=en