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Pookie
07-19-2012, 09:00 AM
Some interesting tidbits this morning.

Best Start to a TFC Coaching Career (10 Games)

Carver - 5-3-2 - 17 points
Preki - 5-4-1 - 16 points
Mariner 4-2-4 - 16 points
Cummins - 4-4-2 - 10 points
Johnston - 3-6-1 - 10 points
Winter - 2-4-4 - 10 points
Dasovic 2-3-1 - 7 points *only had 7 games after Preki fired


Best 10 game stretch ever:

Carver 6-2-2 (April 13 to June 14th 2008) - 20 points


The Sad Bit:

Strong starts never correlated to strong finishes. Winter's 2011 Reds were the exception finishing 2011 strong after a poor start.... followed by a horrendous 2012. Here's where each of those team's finished in that year:

Carver - 5-3-2 - 17 points (last place, east)
Preki - 5-4-1 - 16 points (5th in the east)
Mariner 4-2-4 - 16 points (TBD)
Cummins - 4-4-2 - 10 points (5th in east, closest to playoffs ever)
Johnston - 3-6-1 - 10 points (last place, east)
Winter - 2-4-4 - 10 points (2nd last place, east)
Dasovic 2-3-1 - 7 points *only had 7 games after Preki fired (5th in east)


Maybe we need to be sponsored by Viagara to encourage them to keep it up.

Huyton
07-19-2012, 09:39 AM
So far, Mariner has lost the fewest, and is unbeaten at BMO.

T-boy
07-19-2012, 09:42 AM
Unbeaten at BMO is essential if you ask me. "The majority" of TFC fans don't care much about away games, they just want to see good home form. I watch all the away games on TV (like I'm sure most on this forum do), but the average SSH won't watch all away games. Mariner NEEDS to keep BMO a fortress.

Pookie
07-19-2012, 09:49 AM
Unbeaten at BMO is essential if you ask me. "The majority" of TFC fans don't care much about away games, they just want to see good home form. I watch all the away games on TV (like I'm sure most on this forum do), but the average SSH won't watch all away games. Mariner NEEDS to keep BMO a fortress.

I hear what you are saying but it doesn't appear to correlate to success. Carver's 2008 team remained unbeaten at BMO from April 13 to August 3rd. A record of 6-0-4

They finished 12th (of 14) and missed the playoffs.

Beach_Red
07-19-2012, 09:52 AM
I hear what you are saying but it doesn't appear to correlate to success. Carver's 2008 team remained unbeaten at BMO from April 13 to August 3rd. A record of 6-0-4

They finished 12th (of 14) and missed the playoffs.


Well, it's not going to bring success on its own, but it is one of the keys. That and avoiding the annual mnid-season slump, and as you say, some Viagra near the end of the season.

I have to say, though, for the first time (maybe ever) it feels like we are actually building an MLS team.

T-boy
07-19-2012, 09:52 AM
I hear what you are saying but it doesn't appear to correlate to success. Carver's 2008 team remained unbeaten at BMO from April 13 to August 3rd. A record of 6-0-4

They finished 12th (of 14) and missed the playoffs.

I'm not saying that unbeaten at BMO will lead to success. I'm saying that the team currently owes the fans a good run at home. Unbeaten at home the rest of the season would be a little reward to all of us who go every game.

Huyton
07-19-2012, 10:17 AM
Yeah...that 2008 team was good at home, but truly awful on the road.



Overall

Home

Away



Pld

Pts

W

L

T

GF

GA

GD

W

L

T

GF

GA

GD

W

L

T

GF

GA

GD



30

35

9

13

8

34

43

−9

6

2

7

17

12

+5

3

11

1

17

31

−14

Pookie
07-19-2012, 10:20 AM
I'm not saying that unbeaten at BMO will lead to success. I'm saying that the team currently owes the fans a good run at home. Unbeaten at home the rest of the season would be a little reward to all of us who go every game.

It's a curious concept. Wins at home = value for the fans.

Maybe Maple Leaf Sports and ENTERTAINMENT isn't that far off the mark.

Personally, I need to see a price decrease as the value that I get for going... not measured at all by wins and losses... does not equal the price I am currently paying. That would be my little reward.

Too often, we simply buy what they are selling us. That if the team won, the fans would be happy despite all the price gouging and other off-field issues. It's dangerous to equate performance with prices/support. Clearly, if they can charge this much when losing, imagine what they will charge if they ultimately won?

That's why pricing has to be a function of the market they have... not the one they think they can convert to a higher paying one

T-boy
07-19-2012, 10:46 AM
It's a curious concept. Wins at home = value for the fans.

Maybe Maple Leaf Sports and ENTERTAINMENT isn't that far off the mark.

Personally, I need to see a price decrease as the value that I get for going... not measured at all by wins and losses... does not equal the price I am currently paying. That would be my little reward.

Too often, we simply buy what they are selling us. That if the team won, the fans would be happy despite all the price gouging and other off-field issues. It's dangerous to equate performance with prices/support. Clearly, if they can charge this much when losing, imagine what they will charge if they ultimately won?

That's why pricing has to be a function of the market they have... not the one they think they can convert to a higher paying one

You have to remember the the people that chat on this forum are NOT the average TFC/Toronto sports fan. We are all the exception - people who care SO much about TFC that we are compelled to take time out of our work day and type on a forum, to look up stats and reports, and take big parts of our day out to think about our team. The AVERAGE SSH is not somebody who comes to this forum. The average SSH just cares about the home games, and seeing the team do well at BMO.

That's why I'm saying that the "average TFC SSH" needs to see a fortress BMO. NOT because of us or any RPB, but for the average fan who just cares to watch the games at BMO and see a result there.

I totally agree with you that the hardcore fans (people on this forum) are owed MUCH more than just home wins. But the average SSH just cares about what they see at home games, and nothing more. WE, hereon the RPB forum, are well above average fans.

Pookie
07-19-2012, 11:32 AM
You have to remember the the people that chat on this forum are NOT the average TFC/Toronto sports fan. We are all the exception - people who care SO much about TFC that we are compelled to take time out of our work day and type on a forum, to look up stats and reports, and take big parts of our day out to think about our team. The AVERAGE SSH is not somebody who comes to this forum. The average SSH just cares about the home games, and seeing the team do well at BMO.

That's why I'm saying that the "average TFC SSH" needs to see a fortress BMO. NOT because of us or any RPB, but for the average fan who just cares to watch the games at BMO and see a result there.

I totally agree with you that the hardcore fans (people on this forum) are owed MUCH more than just home wins. But the average SSH just cares about what they see at home games, and nothing more. WE, hereon the RPB forum, are well above average fans.

I think you sell the current SSH base short. There was a time when this board was hopping with members and non-members alike. Much of the early SSH's came from grass roots support, like you and I but also from soccer clubs and those who understand the game or at least are motivated to learn it.

Then MLSE sold out the stadium and got the idea that we, like Leaf fans, would want to pool our money together to afford to go to games. The exact wording an MLSE Exec used with me was "like the Leafs, most fans don't go to every game so if you have to split with 3 friends and get to 6 each, it's just the way the demand is going."

The same seat at triple the price. It's why, I believe, they didn't act on scalpers and the like because if they could get a robust, for-profit secondary ticket market going, fans might look the other way on tickets if you sell for a profit. They didn't count on SGs taking a stand.

They actually talked about a "Membership fee" which would give you access to walk up, single game tickets. The concept of a Personal Seat License was discussed.

Ultimately, the fans that buy those are not the ones that are going. These fans have long since left TFC because the "atmosphere" was neat but it was like going to a movie. They saw it once, no need to go again.

TFC current has a strong support base made up of "grass roots" followers but if the effort goes into making a great "home show", (eg. Caribbean night, etc) then they will lose this. That's why the bulk of us are upset about the long term direction. Wins are nice. The feeling is that we have missed the boat and will continue to do as long as we have a professional engineer in charge... with all due respect to professional engineers.

T-boy
07-19-2012, 11:57 AM
I knew a lot of people who got tickets the first couple of season just because it was the new thing in town. And you are right, some came, and went, and never came back.

But I also know a lot of people who are NOW SSH (and have gotten them since 2008) who got them just cos they want to go see live football. I know two guys who were on the waiting list for 3 seasons and eventually got a partial season ticket last year, and now got a full SSH this season as their first full season. They LOVE going to games...but no disrespect to them, they know NOTHING about TFC and the MLS! But they still go, and will go next season I'm certain. They just love going to see live football and love the atmosphere.

I'm just saying that there will be, and always will be, those people who just don't care "enough" about the overall picture and FO politics, and will renew season tickets anyways, and those people just care about home games and home results, and probably don't even KNOW the team plays away from home sometimes!

Pookie
07-19-2012, 12:10 PM
^ well with all those wonderful broadcasts in stunning Standard Definition tucked away on GolTV, who could blame 'em? ;)

Shakes McQueen
07-19-2012, 12:15 PM
It was always a well-known problem with TFC - we would get off to a hot start, then cool off rapidly during the summer months, and then by the time we returned to mediocre (or better), we were on the fringes of the playoff picture at best.

Of course, this year that tendency has been turned on it's head. We were cold as a fish out of the gate, and suddenly now the team is rattling off wins, coinciding with the manager change.

- Scott

Shakes McQueen
07-19-2012, 12:19 PM
The casuals were always eventually going to stop coming. TFC was a fashionable hot ticket in town for a couple of years, and the casuals came to take in the novelty of an "authentic" soccer atmosphere, like they'd heard about in Europe. Once the party was over, they left, save for the minority that might have been turned into genuine fans of the team and the sport, by the experience.

Perhaps if TFC had immediately been a playoff powerhouse for several years, that party could have lasted longer, but it was always a party - meaning not sustainable.

The real problem has been pushing away genuine soccer fans with the poor on-field product.

- Scott

TOBOR !
07-19-2012, 12:57 PM
Wait.. What ? Oh, Season Ticket renewals... that was confusing !