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razor787
07-15-2012, 12:25 AM
Any word on him? He certainly looked to be in a lot of pain after jarring his knee in New England. Looked like one that could knock someone out indefinitely. If it turns out we lose him for the season, does that effect the speculated signing of a new DP? If I am not mistaken, this is either Koev's last year, or Frings. So losing Koev could mean we need to look at filling the striker role.

jabbronies
07-15-2012, 12:33 AM
I think we have him through 2013

Alonso
07-15-2012, 12:37 AM
Any word on him? He certainly looked to be in a lot of pain after jarring his knee in New England. Looked like one that could knock someone out indefinitely. If it turns out we lose him for the season, does that effect the speculated signing of a new DP? If I am not mistaken, this is either Koev's last year, or Frings. So losing Koev could mean we need to look at filling the striker role.

I'm pretty sure its both their last year in their contracts.

And yeah, a productive striker would be high on the list if Koevs is out for any long stretch.

But then again, the year is lost as far as playoffs are concerned so maybe they just sign him up for a few more years after he recovers and plan for building up the rest of the teams inadequacies.

Alonso
07-15-2012, 01:16 AM
Nope I was wrong.

We have Koevs through 2013: http://www.thestar.com/sports/soccer/article/1056019--tfc-s-koevermans-soaking-up-toronto-and-scoring

KGH
07-15-2012, 02:29 AM
Well Danny... Thank you for your brief career with us. It's a shame it had to end this way.

So what happens when a DP has a career ending injury and still has a full year and a half left on his contract?

Flipityflu
07-15-2012, 04:44 AM
Well Danny... Thank you for your brief career with us. It's a shame it had to end this way.

So what happens when a DP has a career ending injury and still has a full year and a half left on his contract?

lol, jumping the gun a bit don't you think. he's probably not even had an MRI yet., and i've seen no updates on the injury.

denime
07-15-2012, 05:57 AM
lol, jumping the gun a bit don't you think. he's probably not even had an MRI yet., and i've seen no updates on the injury.

Maybe,but NER plays in NFL stadium and all of them have own MRI and full equipped emergency room.

brad
07-15-2012, 06:50 AM
Maybe,but NER plays in NFL stadium and all of them have own MRI and full equipped emergency room.

I though you usually needed to wait a few days for swelling to go down With knee injuries before you could diagnose.

London
07-15-2012, 07:09 AM
^^^ i also thought the same, you had to wait a day as it could be bad or just a knee knock, you dont realy know, but again, i am definitly not a doctor

69Chevy396
07-15-2012, 07:10 AM
I though you usually needed to wait a few days for swelling to go down With knee injuries before you could diagnose.He also took a kick to the face-does he have concussion issues?

Pookie
07-15-2012, 07:57 AM
I though you usually needed to wait a few days for swelling to go down With knee injuries before you could diagnose.

Swelling in the area wouldn't be immediate. You and I would need to wait in an ER for hours before we were seen at which point swelling would indeed be evident. As denime says, he was likely taken right to the medical examination room and a very high priced one at that considering this is the home of the New England Patriots.

If an ACL tear is suspected, it is probably as a result of a very clear picture from that initial, thorough exam.

v00d00daddy
07-15-2012, 08:20 AM
https://twitter.com/jasondevos/status/224485462708985857

Heading back to Toronto. Concern over Koevermans’ injury is that it could be his ACL. If so, his season (and potentially his career) is over




I fear the worst. It would be heartbreaking for Koevermans and the team.

James17930
07-15-2012, 09:04 AM
Well Labue was able to bend it while Koev was lying on the field . . . would the knee bend if the ACL was torn?

Whoop
07-15-2012, 09:22 AM
Yes, you can still bend your knee if you tear your ACL.

BayernTFC
07-15-2012, 10:42 AM
Some updates on an estimated time frame for additional news concerning Danny:

Kurtis Larson ‏@KurtLarSUN (https://twitter.com/KurtLarSUN) Likely won't get an update on Koev for a few days. Last night Mariner said he "feared th worst" after speaking with medical staff. ‪#TFC (https://twitter.com/search/%23TFC)

Kurtis Larson ‏@KurtLarSUN (https://twitter.com/KurtLarSUN)
@soccercanada (https://twitter.com/soccercanada) Depends. If it's handled like most injuries with TFC they aren't in a huge rush to issue statements on injuries.

John Molinaro ‏@JohnMolinaro (https://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro)
No update from ‪#TFC‬ (https://twitter.com/search/%23TFC) on Koevermans' condition today. Club official says update will come sometime this week when he's been evaluated.

Blizzard
07-15-2012, 10:48 AM
Swelling in the area wouldn't be immediate. You and I would need to wait in an ER for hours before we were seen at which point swelling would indeed be evident. As denime says, he was likely taken right to the medical examination room and a very high priced one at that considering this is the home of the New England Patriots.

If an ACL tear is suspected, it is probably as a result of a very clear picture from that initial, thorough exam.

FYI and for what it's worth, Danny was seen at Boston airport this morning with his leg in a wheelchair with his leg in an immobilizer .... as would be expected I suppose.

brad
07-15-2012, 11:30 AM
Swelling in the area wouldn't be immediate. You and I would need to wait in an ER for hours before we were seen at which point swelling would indeed be evident. As denime says, he was likely taken right to the medical examination room and a very high priced one at that considering this is the home of the New England Patriots.

If an ACL tear is suspected, it is probably as a result of a very clear picture from that initial, thorough exam.

Do you think the medical facilities for the Patriots purpose would be staffed for an MLS game? I'd assume the correct technicians would need to be available.

jloome
07-15-2012, 11:41 AM
Do you think the medical facilities for the Patriots purpose would be staffed for an MLS game? I'd assume the correct technicians would need to be available.

As I pointed out yesterday, it could be a tear, or just a partiail tear, or just a sprained knee. Symptomatically, there's no way we can tell until they release the diagnostics. Bad sprains can feel as bad as breaks or tears, easily.

denime
07-15-2012, 11:42 AM
I though you usually needed to wait a few days for swelling to go down With knee injuries before you could diagnose.

15 years ago in Germany I torn ACL during the game on Sunday night,Tuesday arthroscopic examination was done to make sure how much was the damage and Friday I was operated,6 months later started practicing with my team.

Considering that Koef is DP and he was at Foxborough stadium,I'm sure they know already what's the deal,what TFC FO doesn't know is how to deal with it in the media.

What's the next step for Koef and club,can TFC acquire another DP while he is on injury list,how about CAP hit,do we get another forward or hope our academy kids and "the best scorer of modern times" can do it for us?

69Chevy396
07-15-2012, 11:44 AM
As I pointed out yesterday, it could be a tear, or just a partiail tear, or just a sprained knee. Symptomatically, there's no way we can tell until they release the diagnostics. Bad sprains can feel as bad as breaks or tears, easily.

Either way, he won't be playing soccer again this year...sprains can take 3 months or longer to heal properly

69Chevy396
07-15-2012, 11:47 AM
15 years ago in Germany I torn ACL during the game on Sunday night,Tuesday arthroscopic examination was done to make sure how much was the damage and Friday I was operated,6 months later started practicing with my team.

Considering that Koef is DP and he was at Foxborough stadium,I'm sure they know already what's the deal,what TFC FO doesn't know is how to deal with it in the media.

What's the next step for Koef and club,can TFC acquire another DP while he is on injury list,how about CAP hit,do we get another forward or hope our academy kids and "the best scorer of modern times" can do it for us?

Perhaps the Wideman finisher expertise is related to an car washing stint the guy had as a kid

Corpand
07-15-2012, 11:50 AM
Stupid goddamn piece of synthetic good-for-nothing field turf shit.

tfcleeds
07-15-2012, 11:56 AM
Geez, just when things look to be turning the corner for this club, we just may have lost our top goalscorer for good. This club is truly cursed. My best wishes go out to Danny, hope he can recover from this.

ouderwien
07-15-2012, 02:11 PM
I hope all the best for Danny. I think best case scenerio we have him ready for next March.

However, this just frustrates me. MLS needs Soccer Specific Stadiums, or at the least grass pitches. Frings in Seattle and now Koevs in Boston. There cannot be a step forward for the league until these stadiums like Gilette are removed. Henry on the Redbulls didn't play there last week and this would be why.

jloome
07-15-2012, 02:28 PM
I hope all the best for Danny. I think best case scenerio we have him ready for next March.

However, this just frustrates me. MLS needs Soccer Specific Stadiums, or at the least grass pitches. Frings in Seattle and now Koevs in Boston. There cannot be a step forward for the league until these stadiums like Gilette are removed. Henry on the Redbulls didn't play there last week and this would be why.

I think he may have had the wrong studs on. If you watch the slow motion replay, his leg sort of bows as if his foot is partially caught on the turf; and if you back to a couple of strides before he went down, it does it as well. It almost looks like his studs were getting caught in the artificial turf.

bigredone
07-15-2012, 02:33 PM
Beterschap Koning Koevs!

Pookie
07-15-2012, 03:42 PM
Do you think the medical facilities for the Patriots purpose would be staffed for an MLS game? I'd assume the correct technicians would need to be available.

Sure. I would assume that either TFC or the Revs had a team doctor on site, usually someone with a background in orthopedic surgery or sports medicine as well as a technician that could operate the equipment. If Dr Ira Smith, our team doctor, was with the team then he has a background in sports medicine and is more than capable of providing the diagnosis.

tfc2008
07-15-2012, 04:08 PM
When it must be over for Danny then you guys can say in 6 years MLS this was the BEST guy TFC had.
But Danny you gone come back WE DUtch people are strong.

AmherstNY_TFC
07-15-2012, 04:39 PM
Assuming it is an ACL tear, he'd probably have surgery on it ASAP, and be back at full training just after the start of the next season. Even then, he wouldn't be fully fit for the balance of 2013.

In any event it sucks on two levels. First, now what do they do for scoring? Johnson misses as many chances as he makes. Is there roster space/cap room to bring in a temporary replacement?

Second, TFC finally has a franchise player. The past few weeks, he has been the guy who put the team on his shoulders and dragged them across the line. A guy who is automatic in the penalty area is hard enough to find as it is. The fact that he became a team leader was a bonus. He clearly relishes being "The Man." Guys of that kind of talent and character are irreplaceable. Whatever happens, speedy recovery, Danny. You have become a TFC legend in a very short time.

supersaint
07-15-2012, 06:16 PM
agreed

Assuming it is an ACL tear, he'd probably have surgery on it ASAP, and be back at full training just after the start of the next season. Even then, he wouldn't be fully fit for the balance of 2013.

In any event it sucks on two levels. First, now what do they do for scoring? Johnson misses as many chances as he makes. Is there roster space/cap room to bring in a temporary replacement?

Second, TFC finally has a franchise player. The past few weeks, he has been the guy who put the team on his shoulders and dragged them across the line. A guy who is automatic in the penalty area is hard enough to find as it is. The fact that he became a team leader was a bonus. He clearly relishes being "The Man." Guys of that kind of talent and character are irreplaceable. Whatever happens, speedy recovery, Danny. You have become a TFC legend in a very short time.

69Chevy396
07-15-2012, 07:18 PM
agreed

Bit early to be calling him a legend. It took him a long time to begin scoring, and many of his goals were in losing efforts after the game was already done as far at the team goes...so in many ways he was just as much the problem leading up to an 0-9 start as he was the leader in pulling the club out of that mire. I think the transfer window is still open, there are comparable, even better options available to the team if they want to open the bank a little.

Huyton
07-15-2012, 10:14 PM
Respectfully, I have to disagree.

Koevermans made his debut for Toronto in a 1-0 home defeat to Dallas on July 20, 2011. Koevermans scored his first goal for Toronto on a cross from Ryan Johnson three days later against Kansas City in a 4-2 away loss.

Koevermans MLS record:
2011
Kansas 4 TFC 2 1st goal
Portland 2 TFC 2 2nd goal (tying)
DC United 3 TFC 3 3rd goal (tying)
Columbus 2 TFC 4 4th goal (insurance)
TFC 2 Colorado 1 Both goals
TFC 1 New York 1 Go ahead goal
TFC 2 New England 2 2nd goal (tying)

2012
Montreal 2 TFC 1 Only goal
DC United 3 TFC 1 Only goal
TFC 1 Philadelphia 0 Winning goal
Houston 3 TFC 3 Last two TFC goals
TFC 2 New England 2 1st goal
Montreal 0 TFC 3 3rd goal
TFC 1 New York 1 Tying goal
Dallas 1 TFC 1 Tying goal

In the 15 games where he has scored, TFC has won 4, tied 8 and lost 3 of them.

Canary10
07-16-2012, 07:29 AM
I doubt he would even have been playing in the game if we had any reasonabe depth at forward. He was already coming into the game listed as doubtful because of a knee problem. Putting any player out on turf who has any knee issue is just asking for trouble.

__wowza
07-16-2012, 09:02 AM
Respectfully, I have to disagree.
In the 15 games where he has scored, TFC has won 4, tied 8 and lost 3 of them.

jesus tap dancing christ, remind me never to ask you back up your stance with stats!!
i would be on the losing end of an argument in a heartbeat.

it's funny that around the same time we started talking about who on the squad could possibly replace danny (ie: NO ONE) if he got injured.. this shit happens. no one can argue that this isn't a serious knock to our attack. we released soolsma, loaned out plata, and brought in someone we've not formed an opinion on. combined with silva moving up the pitch into an attacking role, and johnson not being able to find the back of the net, things look cloudy just when they started to brighten up.

T-boy
07-16-2012, 09:10 AM
"IF" Koev's is out for the season (and that would be totally worst case scenario) does anybody know how it work work with the long term injury list and his DP slot? If he is taken off the roster on the season long injury list, does that mean his DP slot is taken away so we can sign another one? Or does he stay a DP even though he can't play? I know we could sign players last season after Cann and Williams were out for the season, but is that the same for a DP?

SirBobSaget
07-16-2012, 09:28 AM
"IF" Koev's is out for the season (and that would be totally worst case scenario) does anybody know how it work work with the long term injury list and his DP slot? If he is taken off the roster on the season long injury list, does that mean his DP slot is taken away so we can sign another one? Or does he stay a DP even though he can't play? I know we could sign players last season after Cann and Williams were out for the season, but is that the same for a DP?

An International slot gets freed up if the player being replaced was International, so would be consistent if DP status behaves same.

International player limits still apply at the time a season-ending replacement is made (with the player being replaced not counting against those limits).

PS the wording of the MLS Roster Rules is truely awkward at times.

T-boy
07-16-2012, 09:29 AM
An International slot gets freed up if the player being replaced was International, so would be consistent if DP status behaves same.

International player limits still apply at the time a season-ending replacement is made (with the player being replaced not counting against those limits).

PS the wording of the MLS Roster Rules is truely awkward at times.

Thanks for the answer!

Stryker
07-16-2012, 11:18 AM
Getting the international slot doesn't do us much good when we're still responsible for his salary on the cap.
IF he torn his ACL MLSE would have the option of buying him out at the end of the season but we're pretty much screwed this year unless we came up with a shitload of allocation.

T-boy
07-16-2012, 11:20 AM
Getting the international slot doesn't do us much good when we're still responsible for his salary on the cap.
IF he torn his ACL MLSE would have the option of buying him out at the end of the season but we're pretty much screwed this year unless we came up with a shitload of allocation.

I think what the rules are stating, is that we "assume" that if taking Danny off the roster means giving us his international spot, it will also give us his DP slot. Anybody agree?

Stryker
07-16-2012, 11:25 AM
I think what the rules are stating, is that we "assume" that if taking Danny off the roster means giving us his international spot, it will also give us his DP slot. Anybody agree?
Yes it does give us the DP slot back. So we'd have 2 DP slots with Frings in the 3rd.
Now we need to come up with 700,000 againest the cap. Then theres the question of do we have to pay the 250 000 fee AGAIN for using the 3rd DP slot. We had already paid it once.

BayernTFC
07-16-2012, 11:33 AM
For those interested:

Kurtis Larson ‏@KurtLarSUN (https://twitter.com/KurtLarSUN) Nothing from the club today on Koev. Hoping to learn tomorrow how bad the damage is. ‪#TFC (https://twitter.com/search/%23TFC)

T-boy
07-16-2012, 11:35 AM
Yes it does give us the DP slot back. So we'd have 2 DP slots with Frings in the 3rd.
Now we need to come up with 700,000 againest the cap. Then theres the question of do we have to pay the 250 000 fee AGAIN for using the 3rd DP slot. We had already paid it once.

This is where the wording of the rules in MLS loses me a little bit. And....I'm sure would be defined differently for LAG! I'm sure if THEY lost Beckham, they would be able to to sign Ronaldinho in a flash! TFC.....not so much! :(

Red I
07-16-2012, 11:47 AM
Getting the international slot doesn't do us much good when we're still responsible for his salary on the cap.
IF he torn his ACL MLSE would have the option of buying him out at the end of the season but we're pretty much screwed this year unless we came up with a shitload of allocation.

The wording says the team is on the hook for the salary, but it doesn't mention its effect on the cap... Gawd, the Roster Rules are so unclear

SirBobSaget
07-16-2012, 11:50 AM
There's nothing specific in the rules about long term injury to a DP.

But since it does mention that you get an International slot back (if an Int player suffers season ending injury) I am assuming/guessing the same would apply to DP slot ... though another question is does the cap hit for season ending injured player free up? if not then its a moot point because no way can a team carry 4 DP cap hits.

Unfortunately as with many of the MLS rules we can only assume/guess.

jabbronies
07-16-2012, 01:37 PM
Irfaan Gaffar ‏@IrfaanGaffar (https://twitter.com/IrfaanGaffar) Eric Hassli in crutches and a walking boot. #WhitecapsFC (https://twitter.com/#%21/search/%23WhitecapsFC)

moralis
07-16-2012, 02:11 PM
This is NOT GOOD: Danny could be out 6 to 9 months because of a torn ACL:

According to Dutch media who spoke to Danny today or yesterday

http://translate.google.ca/translate?hl=en&sl=nl&u=http://www.elfvoetbal.nl/nieuws/200167_koevermans-scheurt-kruisband-tranen-zijn-geweest&prev=/search%3Fq%3DKoevermans%2Bscheurt%2Bkruisband:%2B% 2527Tranen%2Bzijn%2Bgeweest%2527%26hl%3Den%26clien t%3Dfirefox-a%26hs%3DMBX%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26channel%3Drcs%26prmd%3Dimvns&sa=X&ei=RGYEUK3yCsH26AHKruCABw&ved=0CE8Q7gEwAA

Fuckin Shit.

T-boy
07-16-2012, 02:17 PM
If Koev's has torn his ACL, it would be the end of his career, not just 6 to 9 months out, IMO :(

Red I
07-16-2012, 02:21 PM
This is NOT GOOD: Danny could be out 6 to 9 months because of a torn ACL:

According to Dutch media who spoke to Danny today or yesterday

http://translate.google.ca/translate?hl=en&sl=nl&u=http://www.elfvoetbal.nl/nieuws/200167_koevermans-scheurt-kruisband-tranen-zijn-geweest&prev=/search%3Fq%3DKoevermans%2Bscheurt%2Bkruisband:%2B% 27Tranen%2Bzijn%2Bgeweest%27%26hl%3Den%26client%3D firefox-a%26hs%3DMBX%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26channel%3Drcs%26prmd%3Dimvns&sa=X&ei=RGYEUK3yCsH26AHKruCABw&ved=0CE8Q7gEwAA

Fuckin Shit.

Man, this turf stuff is brutal! Even after I play a game on the stuff, my knees and back are so fuct... and that's a pick-up game!!

One of the best strikers in the league goes down; Can MLS please force teams to adopt grass in all new stadiums? I doubt NE has the cash, though

AmherstNY_TFC
07-16-2012, 02:21 PM
And seeing that the Red Bulls acquired Sebastien Le Toux for Dane Richards hurts as well. Le Toux would have been a solid temporary replacement.

Let's assume that TFC will sign Mellberg and another defender. Is it beyond the realm of possibility that TFC may work a trade to get some temporary help up top? Could they move Ecks, the rights to Plata, or some other asset to bring in a striker with at least some consistency?

T-boy
07-16-2012, 02:24 PM
And seeing that the Red Bulls acquired Sebastien Le Toux for Dane Richards hurts as well. Le Toux would have been a solid temporary replacement.

Let's assume that TFC will sign Mellberg and another defender. Is it beyond the realm of possibility that TFC may work a trade to get some temporary help up top? Could they move Ecks, the rights to Plata, or some other asset to bring in a striker with at least some consistency?

Why move Ecks, one of our best players this season? That would be slightly counter productive! You get a replacement for Koev's but make the defense weaker!

I think just the fact that roster space "should" be open up if Koev's was on a season long injury list should be enough cap space to find a replacement. I say we get Kenny Cooper from NY, seeing as they may not need him now with Le Toux there. Any takers on that one? Cooper does have the knack of scoring at BMO! (against us!).

Auzzy
07-16-2012, 02:28 PM
OMFG crap news about Danny.

You do not get any cap space back for this season for a season-ending injury, only the roster spot. That was clarified in previous seasons. However, MLS can do whatever they want with the magic allocation money, who knows.

BTW, Ecks is good but overpriced for this league, no other MLS team is going to take that cap hit from us.

Stryker
07-16-2012, 02:29 PM
And seeing that the Red Bulls acquired Sebastien Le Toux for Dane Richards hurts as well. Le Toux would have been a solid temporary replacement.

Let's assume that TFC will sign Mellberg and another defender. Is it beyond the realm of possibility that TFC may work a trade to get some temporary help up top? Could they move Ecks, the rights to Plata, or some other asset to bring in a striker with at least some consistency?
Fucking up our team (even more) in the long run to try and score meaningless goals in a season written off long ago is pointless.

Furtado91
07-16-2012, 02:37 PM
what about carvalho? chances are he will be out of madrid? or is that just wishful thinking?

brad
07-16-2012, 02:39 PM
Feel bad for Danny, bad luck for the team as well.

Also illustrates the dangers of the DP, especially when used on an aging player though...

sashavukelich
07-16-2012, 02:40 PM
As a nurse who has some experience with Orthopedic injuries i fear a complete ACL (or PCL) tear would likely be the end for danny. Think of the situation
1) Surgical Recovery
2) Infection evasion
3) Muscoskeletal rehab (to baseline, not even pro athlete levels)
4) Cardio rehab and weight management (which danny has struggled with as he gets older).

Danny will be what...34/35 in 9 Months time? Although i love the big dutchy, i think we are forced to explore options and to buy out his contract.

I believe 1/2 of his salary would still count towards the cap if he was put on 'season ending injury' list right?

Stryker
07-16-2012, 02:41 PM
Not sure how MLS would look at this but what I'd try to do is buy out Koev at the end of the season for 90% of his salary with an understanding he will be resigned when he recovers.
This frees up the DP spot and his cap space for next season. When he recovers this time next year, sign him again for 150,000 for the half year which is when his contract would have expired anyway (I think). This could put us in a really good position this time next year and the Koev gets his money in full regardless.
We could actually have 3 DP's + Koev this time next year.

T-boy
07-16-2012, 02:41 PM
OMFG crap news about Danny.

You do not get any cap space back for this season for a season-ending injury, only the roster spot. That was clarified in previous seasons. However, MLS can do whatever they want with the magic allocation money, who knows.

BTW, Ecks is good but overpriced for this league, no other MLS team is going to take that cap hit from us.

I can't see the MLS wanting to loose one of their star assets for the season and not try and find a solution to replace him.

And agree on Ecks, he is expensive for sure. But he's also been one of our best performers of late, so you can argue that he's slightly worth it, maybe?

T-boy
07-16-2012, 02:44 PM
Not sure how MLS would look at this but what I'd try to do is buy out Koev at the end of the season for 90% of his salary with an understanding he will be resigned when he recovers.
This frees up the DP spot and his cap space for next season. When he recovers this time next year, sign him again for 150,000 for the half year which is when his contract would have expired anyway (I think). This could put us in a really good position this time next year and the Koev gets his money in full regardless.

It depends if Koev's thinks he will continue his career, or be able to. The other option is to declare retirement due to injury, and get the insurance to cover the rest of his contract?! That would be the end of his pro career, but would mean that he would get all of his final salary covered. (assuming that's the way insurance works with MLS players....like it would in Europe).

117
07-16-2012, 02:45 PM
This will come as a surprise to absolutely nobody, but PM is currently having lunch on Front Street, and my buddy is sitting beside him. PM just mentioned Danny has a torn ACL

jrober38
07-16-2012, 02:48 PM
We shouldn't be doing anything to the defense until the end of the season.

Our biggest problem in that spot is our youth and inexperience. With more game time, the replacements we need for next year might already be on the roster. The guys we have have shown flashes that they can play at a high level; the issue is consistency which can be improved with more experience on the field.

At striker, we have one reliable player and no one else. Past DK we don't have any other reliable offense, and there's zero talent waiting in the wings being developed. We should be investing our resources into finding goal scorers and creative midfielders now, and waiting to get a complete picture of what we have at the back.

The season is over. Might as well let the kids take their lumps and get experience at defense. However, for the team to be worth watching, they need to find players who can put the ball in the net.

bigredone
07-16-2012, 02:49 PM
This is NOT GOOD: Danny could be out 6 to 9 months because of a torn ACL:

According to Dutch media who spoke to Danny today or yesterday

http://translate.google.ca/translate?hl=en&sl=nl&u=http://www.elfvoetbal.nl/nieuws/200167_koevermans-scheurt-kruisband-tranen-zijn-geweest&prev=/search%3Fq%3DKoevermans%2Bscheurt%2Bkruisband:%2B% 27Tranen%2Bzijn%2Bgeweest%27%26hl%3Den%26client%3D firefox-a%26hs%3DMBX%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26channel%3Drcs%26prmd%3Dimvns&sa=X&ei=RGYEUK3yCsH26AHKruCABw&ved=0CE8Q7gEwAA

Fuckin Shit.

We all want you to "return to the plow".

Stryker
07-16-2012, 02:49 PM
We shouldn't be doing anything to the defense until the end of the season.

Our biggest problem in that spot is our youth and inexperience. With more game time, the replacements we need for next year might already be on the roster. The guys we have have shown flashes that they can play at a high level; the issue is consistency which can be improved with more experience on the field.

At striker, we have one reliable player and no one else. Past DK we don't have any other reliable offense, and there's zero talent waiting in the wings being developed. We should be investing our resources into finding goal scorers and creative midfielders now, and waiting to get a complete picture of what we have at the back.

The season is over. Might as well let the kids take their lumps and get experience at defense. However, for the team to be worth watching, they need to find players who can put the ball in the net.
Ugly as it will be, I have to agree with this.

T-boy
07-16-2012, 02:52 PM
We shouldn't be doing anything to the defense until the end of the season.

Our biggest problem in that spot is our youth and inexperience. With more game time, the replacements we need for next year might already be on the roster. The guys we have have shown flashes that they can play at a high level; the issue is consistency which can be improved with more experience on the field.

At striker, we have one reliable player and no one else. Past DK we don't have any other reliable offense, and there's zero talent waiting in the wings being developed. We should be investing our resources into finding goal scorers and creative midfielders now, and waiting to get a complete picture of what we have at the back.

The season is over. Might as well let the kids take their lumps and get experience at defense. However, for the team to be worth watching, they need to find players who can put the ball in the net.

It really depends how Mariner wants to set up his team. It's common for a new coach to work from the back to the front while looking at his new squad. You can sure up the back line quicker than finding a goalscorer. Even with losing Koev's possibly, I would personally still work back to front, sort out the defense, then look at attackers later on. Others might take a different approach, mind you.

Canary10
07-16-2012, 02:56 PM
It really depends how Mariner wants to set up his team. It's common for a new coach to work from the back to the front while looking at his new squad. You can sure up the back line quicker than finding a goalscorer. Even with losing Koev's possibly, I would personally still work back to front, sort out the defense, then look at attackers later on. Others might take a different approach, mind you.

In general I agree with you, but Mariner's system more than most needs a target man. We saw Saturday what happens when we lose that. TFC were under constant attack from the point Koevermans (or Koever-MANS as Luke Wileman would say) went out and possession was truly non-existent. For the sake of the defence, we need a central forward stat!

ManUtd4ever
07-16-2012, 02:56 PM
Fuck me. At the very least, I hope Koevs can make it back in time for the pre-season next year.

jrober38
07-16-2012, 02:58 PM
It really depends how Mariner wants to set up his team. It's common for a new coach to work from the back to the front while looking at his new squad. You can sure up the back line quicker than finding a goalscorer. Even with losing Koev's possibly, I would personally still work back to front, sort out the defense, then look at attackers later on. Others might take a different approach, mind you.

This team has scored 22 goals this season. 9 were by DK, with several of them being created out of thin air.

If this team loses him and doesn't find an adequate replacement, they'll be the worst team in the league again next year.

Scoring goals in MLS is extremely difficult because of the salary cap. If you don't have a guy or guys who can score, you can't win in this league.

Auzzy
07-16-2012, 02:58 PM
I can't see the MLS wanting to loose one of their star assets for the season and not try and find a solution to replace him.

And agree on Ecks, he is expensive for sure. But he's also been one of our best performers of late, so you can argue that he's slightly worth it, maybe?

Plenty of MLS stars have had season-ending injuries. The league will have a protocol for that, Danny won't be anything more special. I think we get no cap space back for this year. However, perhaps TFC gets some extra allocation (dressed up as whatever they want) to cover part of his cap hit for this season. We won't ever know for sure. We will just see who (if anyone) is brought in as a replacement, and then we can try to guess.

Sadly, Ecks is worth around $100-200k in this league. (That's more a comment on the league than on Ecks.) He's getting $210k base, $390k guaranteed. As many have said, we don't really know what that means in terms of cap hit anyway. Ecks is a good tackler, tenacious, big heart, fast, ok dribbling with the ball at his feet (he uses his speed for dribbling more than close ball control); but his positional sense isn't great (at FB or as CB); he only passes well over short distance; he can't put a good shot on net even when he's all the way up at the edge of the opposing penalty area. He only has a single assist in over a year since he came here -- not great considering how much he moved forward when playing RB. There are some very good fullbacks around the league who are paid much less.

T-boy
07-16-2012, 02:59 PM
In general I agree with you, but Mariner's system more than most needs a target man. We saw Saturday what happens when we lose that. TFC were under constant attack from the point Koevermans (or Koever-MANS as Luke Wileman would say) went out and possession was truly non-existent. For the sake of the defence, we need a central forward stat!

I agree. I'd still take Mellberg if that signing is possible though, he would still be best CB n the league. We can then try and trade for a MLS striker for this season. I'd suggest Cooper, but I doubt NYRB would want to lose him, unless they don't think he will fit with Le Toux and Henry?

Whoop
07-16-2012, 02:59 PM
http://www.telegraaf.nl/telesport/voetbal/buitenlands/12573221/__Drama_voor_Danny_Koevermans__.html

From the horse's mouth.

Like most who tear their ACLs, Koevermans says he knew right away it was his ACL.

flatpicker
07-16-2012, 03:00 PM
Really sad about Danny. I really hope the club uses all possible resources to strengthen the team. I would still like to see a solid veteran defender join the team to help out the young guys. But hopefully they can do that as well as bringing in some goal scoring help.

It's one thing after another with this club.
It's painful being a sports fan in this city.

Whoop
07-16-2012, 03:01 PM
It seems someone has the full report. Kudos.

At his age, his career is likely done.

brad
07-16-2012, 03:01 PM
We shouldn't be doing anything to the defense until the end of the season.

Our biggest problem in that spot is our youth and inexperience. With more game time, the replacements we need for next year might already be on the roster. The guys we have have shown flashes that they can play at a high level; the issue is consistency which can be improved with more experience on the field.

At striker, we have one reliable player and no one else. Past DK we don't have any other reliable offense, and there's zero talent waiting in the wings being developed. We should be investing our resources into finding goal scorers and creative midfielders now, and waiting to get a complete picture of what we have at the back.

The season is over. Might as well let the kids take their lumps and get experience at defense. However, for the team to be worth watching, they need to find players who can put the ball in the net.

You don't think that the kids would benefit from playing next to an experienced defender like Mellberg?

T-boy
07-16-2012, 03:02 PM
Sadly agreed Whoop :(

Canary10
07-16-2012, 03:02 PM
Just once it would be nice if TFC could get ahead of the twittersphere and tell us what the hell is going on.

T-boy
07-16-2012, 03:03 PM
Just once it would be nice if TFC could get ahead of the twittersphere and tell us what the hell is going on.

I'm sure they will have to wait for swelling to come down to make a full assessment. It could be a partial tear or full tear. That would make a big difference. I'm sure they won't make any kind of press relsease until they have done a full scan on the knee.

Blizzard
07-16-2012, 03:07 PM
Why move Ecks, one of our best players this season? That would be slightly counter productive! You get a replacement for Koev's but make the defense weaker!



Who is going to take Ecks at $395K anyway? Moving Ecks wouldn't make sense or in fact be possible.

Canary10
07-16-2012, 03:08 PM
I'm sure they will have to wait for swelling to come down to make a full assessment. It could be a partial tear or full tear. That would make a big difference. I'm sure they won't make any kind of press relsease until they have done a full scan on the knee.

It's a bit annoyingto have Dutch newspapers reporting on the extent of the injury before TFC puts out an announcement. At any rate, shitty, shitty news.

razor787
07-16-2012, 03:11 PM
What is wrong with Toronto Sports media? Reporters from the Netherlands were able to get a hold of Danny and get interviews, but there has been nothing (that I have seen) coming from Toronto media. That is piss poor and unacceptable. If the dutch reporters can get him on the phone, then the Toronto ones can as well. This isn't even the first time foreign reporters beat them to the punch.

As for the injury, that is a huge blow. Happened at the worst possible time too. Ship out 2 attacking players, then lose your best attacker to injury. Mariner needs to look into bringing a new Striker in, because the odds of Koevermans returning and being as prolific as he has been are very slim (and thats saying he will even be able to return).

ArmenJBX
07-16-2012, 03:11 PM
Time to play the assets.

--------------------Kocic---------------------
-----------------------------------------------
Eckersley----Frings------Emory--------Hall
-----------------------------------------------
Lambe---Avila---Dunfield---Silva---Morgan
-----------------------------------------------
------------------Johnson---------------------

Stryker
07-16-2012, 03:14 PM
I'm going to predict a 4-2-3-1

Ecks---Hall---Emory---Morgan
------Frings----Dunfield------
Lambe------Silva-------Avila
----------Johnson-----------

Stouffville_RPB
07-16-2012, 03:18 PM
This is sad news. One of the few things TFC did right and The Powers That Be strike him down. How MLS allows teams to continue to play with turf fields is beyond stupid. If Koevermans was Beckham what would MLS offices be doing right now?

Best wishes DK.

EDIT: If Koevermans is still out come March is there any way for TFC to get his DP spot back?

reggie
07-16-2012, 03:24 PM
What is wrong with Toronto Sports media? Reporters from the Netherlands were able to get a hold of Danny and get interviews, but there has been nothing (that I have seen) coming from Toronto media. That is piss poor and unacceptable. If the dutch reporters can get him on the phone, then the Toronto ones can as well. This isn't even the first time foreign reporters beat them to the punch.

As for the injury, that is a huge blow. Happened at the worst possible time too. Ship out 2 attacking players, then lose your best attacker to injury. Mariner needs to look into bringing a new Striker in, because the odds of Koevermans returning and being as prolific as he has been are very slim (and thats saying he will even be able to return).

because the media here are too busy blowing BB AA BC...this site breaks more news then the so callled media.

__wowza
07-16-2012, 03:48 PM
next game..

DANNY! DANNNYYY KOOOOEF!!
DANNY! DANNNYYY KOOOOFFFF!!

i wanna hear this.

Mark TFC
07-16-2012, 03:54 PM
next game..

DANNY! DANNNYYY KOOOOEF!!
DANNY! DANNNYYY KOOOOFFFF!!

i wanna hear this.

YES!

Detroit_TFC
07-16-2012, 03:57 PM
Even though I knew this was a possibility, this is still profoundly upsetting. I don't even know what to say.

Northern Soul
07-16-2012, 03:58 PM
Suspected as much based on how he reacted and was stretchered off. Still very disappointing for him and TFC.

Mark TFC
07-16-2012, 03:58 PM
I knew something was wrong right away. Danny's not one to drop and roll around for no reason. This injury is such a shame for so many reasons and it hurts. Another reminder to this league to do away with the bullshit turf surfaces. Get well soon Danny!

Dave67
07-16-2012, 04:15 PM
This blows. You made a stretch of unbearable games bearable. Repair yourself Danny!

Whoop
07-16-2012, 04:29 PM
For what it's worth, club confirms the news.

Torn ACL, needs surgery, out for the year.

Whoop
07-16-2012, 04:40 PM
And you can't replace the DP hit even with a season ending injury.

Yeoman
07-16-2012, 04:44 PM
that's fucking stupid move by mls for putting that kind of rule in place then
i could maybe see if for that younger DP slot thing they have, but i mean odds are this guy is done playing at a true level.
get well danny it was great to talk to you in my horrid german and you just pretending to smile nod and laugh as you almost understood what i said.

T-boy
07-16-2012, 05:06 PM
And you can't replace the DP hit even with a season ending injury.

that rule means we are officially fucked! We have 335k handcuffed out of our cap and we can't do anything about it. The rule stinks! Even for the MLS, how would they want a team weakened THAT much from that hit?!

Auzzy
07-16-2012, 05:26 PM
FaAAAAAACK!!!!!

leafsman
07-16-2012, 05:31 PM
im hoping they change the rules for next season, should be like the NHL where you can replace a player with a long term injury at the same cap hit

Derko
07-16-2012, 05:42 PM
Start the kids and hope for the best. Get well Danny, my wife would always say you had that infectious grin when your scored a goal and made it a joy.

Cheers to Danny,

That's 2 Danny's that are truly TFC Icons.

Redcoe15
07-16-2012, 05:44 PM
:frown5: :banghead:

jimiv
07-16-2012, 05:52 PM
And you can't replace the DP hit even with a season ending injury.

What if he retires, does TFC get the cap space back this season? Then they could offer to resign him when he decides to "come out of retirement" after the rehab is complete?

(and as a retirement gift, pay out his contract and his medical expenses)

Richard
07-16-2012, 05:58 PM
And you can't replace the DP hit even with a season ending injury.

Thats fucking retarded. TFC need to pull some strings on this rule, players with longterm injuries should not count against cap and were fucked because were already over the cap anyway.

ensco
07-16-2012, 06:09 PM
Thats fucking retarded. TFC need to pull some strings on this rule, players with longterm injuries should not count against cap and were fucked because were already over the cap anyway.

This risk, of the older DPs breaking down, was "discussed" quite a bit last year in all those acrimonious "Winter has spit the bit!/No he hasn't, it's too soon to say!" threads.

As much as we love the guy, it's not THAT big a shock. In fact, it's predictable. Both managers beat on Danny like a rented mule. No off days at all.

What's not likely is that these guys come back strong - Milan have a lot of egg on their face now for letting Pirlo walk for nothing, but that didn't seem so dumb when they did it a year ago, and he was coming off two injury-plagued seasons.

Brooker
07-16-2012, 06:34 PM
"Gentleman, we can rebuild him. We have the technology."

GET WELL, DANNY!

Couchy81
07-16-2012, 06:37 PM
I'd say there goes the season but it was gone long before now. I hope our best player recovers and is able to continue his career here.

reggie
07-16-2012, 06:40 PM
lets see if PM can work his magic without DK,you think it was boring before,jus wait.

Gazza
07-16-2012, 06:46 PM
The season was over months ago.

I just feel bad for the man himself.

He was the only bright spot in 2 god-awful years.

Auzzy
07-16-2012, 07:20 PM
I'm so upset for Danny. And here's an article from a few days ago, that highlights what a loss this is to the team: "Danny Koevermans’ Incredible Strike Rate" http://www.mlsreserves.com/2012/07/danny-koevermans-incredible-strike-rate.html

Auzzy
07-16-2012, 09:08 PM
You know what would be really INTERESTING?!?! If another TFC player were to be seriously injured, in the friendly game next Saturday -- god forbid. Like say, Ryan Johnson, Torsten Frings, Milos Kocic, or just about anyone on the remaining roster. AFAIK, that game is not being played on plastic turf, but on a temporary grass field. Normally better than plastic, but can be quite bumpy, with noticeable seams, chunks coming up, etc.... :facepalm:

razor787
07-16-2012, 09:47 PM
The season was over months ago.

I just feel bad for the man himself.

He was the only bright spot in 2 god-awful years.

I also feel for the man. That injury bring with it a great deal of pain, and a lot of work to get himself life fit, letalone back into match shape. I would have taken a loss every game for the rest of the season, rather than have him go down with that injury.

bigredone
07-16-2012, 09:57 PM
I was at D.K's intro game vs. Vancouver and remember seeing him, and wondering how it was going to be. The rest of the story is obvious. Thanks for keeping us afloat!

TFC The Hague
07-17-2012, 04:37 AM
Don't know if this one was posted yet, but here's a full story on DK's injury: http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=nl&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fweb10.elfvoetbal.nl%2Fnieuws%2F2001 67_koevermans-scheurt-kruisband-tranen-zijn-geweest.

Huyton
07-17-2012, 05:46 AM
CBC Radio guy in Toronto is reporting that Koevermans is gone for the season.

Huyton
07-17-2012, 05:49 AM
TFC reporting the same thing on their web site:
Toronto FC announced Tuesday that forward and Designated Player Danny Koevermans will undergo surgery to address a torn ACL in his left knee. The date of the surgery has yet to be determined. He will be out of the lineup for the remainder of the 2012 Major League Soccer (MLS) season.

He sustained the injury in the first half of Saturday night’s match against the New England Revolution.

Doucet3
07-17-2012, 06:20 AM
Just read the same thing, oh well, good luck in your recovery Danny, let's not get all fucking doom and gloom here yea hea gone, but loss but really like we were battling hard for a playoff spot ?, call up makuyba or however you spell his name lol get him some matches along with cordon and Stinson and just write this year off as a "development season", its not the end of DK so let's shelf the talk of ripping the jersey off his back and running with it to the nearest do and giving it to them.

brad
07-17-2012, 07:36 AM
im hoping they change the rules for next season, should be like the NHL where you can replace a player with a long term injury at the same cap hit

Seems like a tricky proposition in the MLS, though - doesn't it? You'd have to balance the cap based on total expenditure when that DP returns to ensure you are not over the cap then. I'm thinking that would lead to only allowing for short term contracts (like signing a player for the rest of the season) which would severely limit options I'd think.

How does this work in the NHL? Is it easier due to the larger cap? (keeping in mind I know little to nothing about the NHL)

brad
07-17-2012, 07:37 AM
that rule means we are officially fucked! We have 335k handcuffed out of our cap and we can't do anything about it. The rule stinks! Even for the MLS, how would they want a team weakened THAT much from that hit?!

The problem with the DP (or any high wage salary really). It's a risky proposition building a team around aging DP's.

brad
07-17-2012, 07:40 AM
What if he retires, does TFC get the cap space back this season? Then they could offer to resign him when he decides to "come out of retirement" after the rehab is complete?

(and as a retirement gift, pay out his contract and his medical expenses)

Didn't Dichio's retirement open up the cap space to sign JDG?

TFC The Hague
07-17-2012, 08:16 AM
And another story from Holland on DK's injury. More of the same, though; http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=nl&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.vi.nl%2Fnieuws%2F224421%2FKoeve rmans-Enorm-balen-dus-dat-ik-nu-moet-afhaken.htm

Initial B
07-17-2012, 08:29 AM
Who could possibly take Koev's place on this team? Nooooooooo-body!

Get well soon Danny!

ryan
07-17-2012, 08:41 AM
The same day TFC announces Danny is done for the year, the Jays best player has his wrist destroyed.

This city is fucking cursed.

__wowza
07-17-2012, 08:43 AM
What if he retires, does TFC get the cap space back this season? Then they could offer to resign him when he decides to "come out of retirement" after the rehab is complete?

i like the idea, but something tells me this reeks of the "re-entry draft".
if someone would like to explain how this would be possible that would be great. i assume if he retires we'd still own his rights? and that when he comes back he wouldnt be able to come back mid-season and have to go through that?

fuck this leagues confusing..

Furtado91
07-17-2012, 09:04 AM
^^^^^ and that's why I don't think MLS will ever really attract European players or make the league attractive, unless they clean up the rules, as there are so many rules and rules that seem to intertwine with other rules.

Derko
07-17-2012, 09:09 AM
I am of the belief that those rules are so gray, that if this were to happen to Garber's 'Precious' LAG or NYRB, a loophole would be found and everything would be roses!!!

ryan
07-17-2012, 09:46 AM
I am of the belief that those rules are so gray, that if this were to happen to Garber's 'Precious' LAG or NYRB, a loophole would be found and everything would be roses!!!

If this was Henry or Goldenballs on the injury shelf, every team would have natural grass for 2013 first kick.


I'm for Toronto, but MLS is a stupid as hell league with all this shit. Then again, footie is corrupt so I guess it makes sense to have that sort of thing.

Fort York Redcoat
07-17-2012, 10:02 AM
I'm not too quick to place this entirely on the league. Look at that NE stadium and ownership. That's not an SSS. It's very difficult to maintain natural turf for a multi use stadium.

lobo
07-17-2012, 11:49 PM
Start the kids and hope for the best. Get well Danny, my wife would always say you had that infectious grin when your scored a goal and made it a joy.

Cheers to Danny,

That's 2 Danny's that are truly TFC Icons.

Yes. This.
Cheers to Danny.

Koef, hope to see you next year.

http://www.torontofc.ca/sites/toronto/files/imagecache/620x350/image_nodes/2011/09/Koevermans2.jpg

tfc2008
07-24-2012, 03:10 PM
Danny Koevermans is only mid-August surgery on a torn anterior cruciate ligament. The doctors in North America want the striker his first knee can bend 120 degrees.

Koevermans ran his severe injury ten days ago. "I am this morning at the doctor and he expects me about three weeks so far are," says the 33-year-old attacker on the website of Sports Promotion.

Koef can not be bothered. "The important thing for me is that I will one hundred percent fit again can return to the field. This year is over for me anyway. I focus on the new season in Toronto."

The veteran was with nine goals in sixteen races in good shape for the Canadian formation, but is now long on the side. "The estimate is six to nine months. But everything that I can shorten grab. That seems logical to me