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__wowza
07-06-2012, 03:20 PM
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/soccer/opinion/2012/07/canadian-soccer-association-to-bid-for-2026-world-cup.html

it's a bold declaration what with the distance that would be between the venues, but with the women's world cup being held here (including the U-20 WC) it could end up being considered in a joint bid with the states perhaps?

Greatest Ripoff
07-06-2012, 03:31 PM
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/soccer/opinion/2012/07/canadian-soccer-association-to-bid-for-2026-world-cup.html

[/b]it's a bold declaration what with the distance that would be between the venues[/b], but with the women's world cup being held here (including the U-20 WC) it could end up being considered in a joint bid with the states perhaps?

The next world cup is being held in Bazil which is only slightly smaller than Canada and the one after than is in Russia which is almost twice the size of Canada. Both will have large distances between venues.

Richard
07-06-2012, 03:33 PM
The next world cup is being held in Bazil which is only slightly smaller than Canada and the one after than is in Russia which is almost twice the size of Canada. Both will have large distances between venues.

The difference being is both those countires have 10+ world class stadiums to host games. Brazil i believe has the biggest football stadium in the world, it will definitely be a joint bid.

__wowza
07-06-2012, 03:42 PM
i'd love to see this. we've proved ourselves with the U-20 world cup (the most profitable U20WC in terms of ticket sales), and we will try and do it again with the women's world cup in 2015. unfortunately, the world cup is an entirely different breed of cat. i don't think it'll happen for a few reasons:




the stadium infrastructure: we'd need to build, rebuild, and renovate stadiums which will serve no purpose after completion (FIFA requires each stadium to at least seat 30k+)

we lack the strength in CSA to put forth a proper bid.

the distance teams would have to travel to reach a suitable venue would be too great (it's a 6 hour flight between vancouver and toronto).



i believe if they launched a joint bid with the US, it'd sweeten the deal. you could run them on separate coasts so all they would have to do is hop the border, during the group stage into the knockout round. you wouldn't have to worry about venue infrastructure, and FIFA has always had a sweet spot for "developing the game" (ie: Canada and a revisit to the US).

if you look at the trend it goes: wildcard, standard, wildcard, standard
(US 94/France 98/Korea and Japan 02/Germany 06/South Africa 10/Brazil 14).

after Qatar, they're due to go back to England, Spain, Italy, Argentina, etc. OR they could pair the wildcard with the standard and do Canada/US. although, after the issues they had with Japan/Korea they might be soured from joint bids from now on, even though our countries are on good terms.

mowe
07-06-2012, 03:46 PM
Where are the stadiums going to come from? I don't think Canada has one grass 5-star stadium. There definitely isn't going to be enough demand for that many stadiums to be built.

A joint bid with the USA would almost make sense, except for the fact that the US can comfortably hold a World Cup on their own (and have done in the past). And Canada would still need to build at least two 40k+ stadiums.

I don't know what Montagliani is trying to accomplish by putting this out there, that he's aiming high? Women's and U-20 World Cups are tournaments on Canada's level, and that's fine. The CSA needs to focus on getting a national D-3 league up and running and build up from there.

kodiakTFC
07-06-2012, 03:50 PM
Joint bid please. At least we'd stand a chance.

Ajax TFC
07-06-2012, 04:18 PM
This would take a shitload of planning and a shitload of money. The CSA would have to convince the government to build several new stadiums and upgrade all the existing stadiums. No way that happens unless they also create a good long term plan to advance soccer in this country to the point where the stadiums would actually be put to full use afterwards. That means they'll need a plan to professionalize soccer in this country, because lets be honest, three MLS teams doesn't give us a real professional level. to really professionalize soccer in this country we need to be at the level where kids that are good have ambition to be pro. Right now I know quite a few kids who play rep soccer who've probably never even thought twice about the possibility of making it a career.
There's no reason why a country with 32 million people can't have a professional league for it's most played sport, other than lack of ambition.

bigredone
07-06-2012, 04:37 PM
AFC and UEFA are out of the bid. CONMEBOL will have recently hosted. Leaves CAF v.s. CONCACAF v.s. OFC. Canada to host still seems unlikely though even with a joint bid. U.S. may not want to share. A joint bid in Central America would be different, but pending how Mexico does at the Olympics with there tough young squad they could try again to host.

Greatest Ripoff
07-06-2012, 04:39 PM
The difference being is both those countires have 10+ world class stadiums to host games. Brazil i believe has the biggest football stadium in the world, it will definitely be a joint bid.

Ok stadium infrastructure is a lot different than talking about the distance between cities.

How many stadia built/renovated for South Africa?

PopePouri
07-06-2012, 05:55 PM
Ok stadium infrastructure is a lot different than talking about the distance between cities.

How many stadia built/renovated for South Africa?

South Africa already had a great infrastructure with regard to Stadia due to Rugby.

Greatest Ripoff
07-06-2012, 06:08 PM
I was just curious how many they built and how many they renovated, I wasn't trying to prove a point. Does anyone know the answer to this? Just want to see how Canada would have to stack up against that. I guess the same goes for Qatar.

ensco
07-06-2012, 06:14 PM
US has 75 suitable stadiums (ie that seat over 60,000 people). Canada has zero. US will have no interest in a joint bid.

This topic is a waste of time.

Redcoe15
07-06-2012, 06:54 PM
This has much of a chance as me getting into a hot, sweaty three way with Natalie Portman and Scarlett Johansson. Translation: NO FUCKING WAY IT'LL HAPPEN!!!

TOBOR !
07-06-2012, 08:25 PM
US has 75 suitable stadiums (ie that seat over 60,000 people). Canada has zero. US will have no interest in a joint bid.

This topic is a waste of time.

Correct. Tell him what he wins, Johnny.

Ask yourself this question : who will the president of FIFA be when 2026 is awarded, and will Montagliani be interested in stuffing their pockets with $$$$$ ?

It all comes down to how much money those corrupt bastards on the FIFA Executive Committee can score from selling the various rights.

Fuck it. Totally against this.

greatwhitenorf
07-06-2012, 09:20 PM
Done deal.

FIFA will love this kind of football missionary work after rolling around in the smell of the corrupt World Cups in Russia and Qatar.

Their benevelonce would extend to not requiring us to have a complete set of 60,000 seat stadiums, but in 14 years time, we could easily have 8-10 suitable stadiums. Canada would get away with a few smaller grounds.

New NFL stadium in Toronto hosts the final. Montreal gets new stadium. Vancouver dome already purtied up. Edmonchuk and Calgary get their stadiums upgraded. There's five stadiums that range from 50,000(Calgary) to 75,000(Toronto, maybe Montreal) and three in between. These will host the bulk of the big games.

Ottawa will get enough money to grow Lansdowne Park to at least 50,000 for WC games. Winnipeg has a new 30-something-thousand stadium and surely it will be offered games if it can flex to add another 10,000 seats. Regina has a new CFL stadium in the works and it could be configured to make additional seats feasible. Not sure what the new layout of Ivor Wynne in Hamilton would offer, but if it's expandable, add it to the list.

We'd need to have something new built in Halifax and Quebec City. Something with permanent seating of 25,000 with the ability to add at least 15,000 temporary seats. They'd get the lower seed games from groups in Ottawa or Montreal.

Might be a bit of a boutique World Cup, but there's no doubt FIFA like what's happened here before and want to keep it going. A healthy Canadian soccer scene helps prevent the rise of any further Jack Warners from occurring.

Don't have to look too hard to see where the initiative and money would come from. This country has made it a mandate to attract the brightest and best from around the world to come and live here. This is a huge public relations move to stir a new generation of potential immigrants. The federal and provincial money for BMO Field came from this sort of thinking. And Harper's Tories would love to steal momentum away from the Liberal's traditional appeal to immigrants.

Boom. Done. Starting planning how you're going to rent out your basement.

Cashcleaner
07-06-2012, 10:02 PM
I used to think that a joint US/Canada bid would work, but looking at the HUNDREDS of stadiums they have in the US, why would they be interested in sharing the glory? If Canada has a hope of hosting we need to do it alone. The only snag is that at the moment, we've only got 4 stadiums that can seat over 50,000 (Olympic, Commonwealth, BC Place, and Rogers Centre). Not sure how/if we can go about building or upgrading so many venues, but I'm sure it would be essential to secure a bid.

The kicker is, if we can sort out venues and put forward a bid, we would get it.

Flipityflu
07-06-2012, 10:51 PM
where is the FIFA Official bribe money coming from? CSA seems to be under funded at the best of times.

denime
07-07-2012, 05:51 AM
Good Luck!!

Whoop
07-07-2012, 06:35 AM
Ok stadium infrastructure is a lot different than talking about the distance between cities.

How many stadia built/renovated for South Africa?


South Africa already had a great infrastructure with regard to Stadia due to Rugby.

South Africa had new stadiums rebuilt or renovated even though they had a 1-2 stadiums built for rugby. Now these stadiums are white elephants.

There are white elephants in Japan/South Korea from 2002 and white elephants in Portugal from 2004.

75,000 seat stadium for CFL? LOL Unless there is a lot of temporary seating. Will the Canadian public want to front the money for all these stadiums to be built and renovated for an event they really don't care that much about? People are fighting against hosting the Olympics which has more of a positive effect through legacy than a singular World Cup.

The only people who really want to see a World Cup in Canada are soccer fans. Sure I'd love to see a World Cup in Canada but I don't think it's feasible.

Though I wonder if no one else bids if FIFA will lower the standards needed to bid.

TFC07
07-07-2012, 04:41 PM
South Africa had new stadiums rebuilt or renovated even though they had a 1-2 stadiums built for rugby. Now these stadiums are white elephants.

There are white elephants in Japan/South Korea from 2002 and white elephants in Portugal from 2004.

75,000 seat stadium for CFL? LOL Unless there is a lot of temporary seating. Will the Canadian public want to front the money for all these stadiums to be built and renovated for an event they really don't care that much about? People are fighting against hosting the Olympics which has more of a positive effect through legacy than a singular World Cup.

The only people who really want to see a World Cup in Canada are soccer fans. Sure I'd love to see a World Cup in Canada but I don't think it's feasible.

Though I wonder if no one else bids if FIFA will lower the standards needed to bid.

I don't know about that!

World Cup is big deal in Canada. Based on TV ratings, it's hard to say Canadians wouldn't welcome World Cup in their own back yard.

I feel if Canada has will and money to build stadiums for World Cup then they'll get it. Canada has proven they can host big international sporting events and they never hosted World Cup (which is a huge plus when comes to decide which country should host World Cup). As long stadiums are there (or going to be there when World Cup starts), then it's hard for FIFA to turn down Canada especially since it has been a while a CONCACAF nation hosted World Cup.

Yohan
07-07-2012, 04:43 PM
I don't know about that!

World Cup is big deal in Canada. Based on TV ratings, it's hard to say Canadians wouldn't welcome World Cup in their own back yard.

I feel if Canada has will and money to build stadiums for World Cup then they'll get it. Canada has proven they can host big international sporting events and they never hosted World Cup (which is a huge plus for FIFA to decide which country should host World Cup). As long stadiums are there (or going to be there when World Cup starts), then it's hard for FIFA to turn down Canada especially since it has been a while a CONCACAF nation hosted World Cup.
and due to multicultural immigrant population, most games in major cities will sell tix. even minnows games most likely

TFC07
07-07-2012, 04:45 PM
and due to multicultural immigrant population, most games in major cities will sell tix. even minnows games most likely

Don't forget Canada is a safe country to visit and open to drinking (and getting high lol) which will attract a lot of tourists around the world to Canada.

TFC07
07-07-2012, 04:50 PM
Last and future World Cup locations:

2010 - South Africa (CAF/Africa)
2014 - Brazil (CONMEBOL/South America)
2018 - Russia (UEFA/Europe)
2022 - Qatar (Asia/AFC)
2026 - CONCACAF nation? (It should be our region's turn).

Whoop
07-07-2012, 06:35 PM
The issue isn't that Canada can't... it's the cost.

The size of the stadiums will also preclude a lot of it too.

I'd like to see mock ups of 70,000+ stadiums with 35,000+ temporary seating. Because really that's what's needed outside of Toronto.

Wagner
07-07-2012, 07:41 PM
we need someone to fund our bribes.
Are the Thomsons into soccer?

is there some tarsands money earmarked for this? (would the final be played in Calgary?)

I think Canada could do it. And it would be awesome.

How many stadiums do we need to have?

The Big "Owe" in Montreal could host. in 1994 the silverdome in detroit hosted indoor games on those hexagons of sod, so the precedent is there.

It is kind of funny that a lot of us on the message board are have been against pointy-ball at BMO, but it would likely be a new NFL stadium that would be the cornerstone of a Canadian Bid.

Didn't commonwealth stadium in edmonton just switch to field turf? (as in the last couple of years)

McMahon in Calgary would need some sod too.
the new BC place could also roll the sod out.

Toronto (Skydome or new NFL, or BMO with temp seating????)
MTL
Van
Calgary and/or Edmonton (would they have 2 that close together?)

wildcards:
Ottawa with new Lansdowne/CFL field.
New Winnipeg looks nice.
New Ivor Wynne in Hamilton coming soon.

Are they Renovating the CFL stadium in Regina??

I believe every CFL field is "FieldTurf" so every stadium would need sod brought in. 14 years to plan and implement new technology isn't too far fetched.

boban
07-07-2012, 10:09 PM
US has 75 suitable stadiums (ie that seat over 60,000 people). Canada has zero. US will have no interest in a joint bid.

This topic is a waste of time.
This. AT least its a waste of time thinking US would have an interest in sharing.
If properly planned Canada can host on its own.
First world country, with 1st rworld ev=cenomy. The money is there. We just need leadership and planning to make this happen.
Also, a new finals stadium woul need to be built.
And with our governments more than eager to build one for the Olympics (if we ever get it) I don't see how a new one in TO for a WC can't be built.

Cashcleaner
07-08-2012, 12:15 AM
What we really need to do is think outside the box for venues. We could take a few existing CFL sites (McMahon is a good example for this) and really go all-out with temporary modular stands. We could then ship the stands to schools, colleges, or community centres all over the country when we are finished with them. They've done that sort of stuff for the olympics and other big events - this would be the same sorta thing, just maybe done on a larger scale.

The great thing about that sort of plan is that you're not just building venues for a bunch of millionaire athletes to be used for only a short period. Instead, you get the seating you need for the big event, then providing permanent facilities for cities and towns all over the country.

Whoop
07-08-2012, 07:17 AM
While the government has been interested in hosting an Olympics in Toronto for example, the people aren't as willing. So how will the people of Canada support a World Cup where most of the new stadiums will have to be built with public money, where the facilities will have less legacy than Olympic facilities? The Olympics bring big TV ratings, and legacy features, to its citizens but if the appeal isn't there for an Olympics where is it for a World Cup, outside of soccer fans?

You'll need a new 75,000 seat stadium for Toronto. This will likely depend on getting a NFL team. Where do you build it? The best spot within Toronto would be by Woodbine as the space is there. Or do you raze BMO and build at the Ex? If so, does TFC play in a 75,000 seat stadium, share with a NFL team? Does TFC still exist? What happens to SkyDome? Do 3-4 teams (NFL, MLB, MLS, CFL) share the one new stadium? If SkyDome still stays, does only the NFL team play in the new NFL stadium?

Olympic Stadium would be okay, but capacity would have to be increased a slight bit, but it should be adequate. But by then the stadium will be 50 years old so it will definitely need upgrades.

BC Place has been upgraded to an extent so it should be okay for now.

Commonwealth will need to be upgraded.

McMahon will need to be expanded/upgraded.

The new stadium in Winnipeg is out because it's too small. Even with temporary seating it still comes in around 45,000.

Even with the new upgrades to Ivor Wynne, the stadium would fall short.

Taylor Field in Regina is too small so that will need to be upgraded or rebuilt.

Will need a new stadium in Halifax, or somewhere in Eastern Canada. Highly unlikely to see a 60,000 seat stadium built there.

That still gives you 8-10 stadiums when you should have a pool of at least 12-16 stadiums to choose from.

You're looking at billions of dollars for infrastructure for stadia alone, let alone for the infrastructure needed in a city like Toronto for the necessary upgrades for example for transportation.

Since the TV era (post 1970) of the World Cup, no country as small as Canada (in terms of population) has hosted the World Cup, save Qatar and we know what went on there. Would the Canadian government drop as much money as the Qatari government to get a WC bid even if a 1/5 is needed?

Or given the size of some of the smaller Qatari stadiums, will the CSA drop a ton of money to ensure guaranteed profits to FIFA?

I'd love to see a World Cup in Canada, but I'm not getting my hopes up.

Whoop
07-08-2012, 07:19 AM
What we really need to do is think outside the box for venues. We could take a few existing CFL sites (McMahon is a good example for this) and really go all-out with temporary modular stands. We could then ship the stands to schools, colleges, or community centres all over the country when we are finished with them. They've done that sort of stuff for the olympics and other big events - this would be the same sorta thing, just maybe done on a larger scale.

The great thing about that sort of plan is that you're not just building venues for a bunch of millionaire athletes to be used for only a short period. Instead, you get the seating you need for the big event, then providing permanent facilities for cities and towns all over the country.

How much daily use do big stadiums get? I could argue that an Olympic bid would do more for a local community with the new facilities than a big, monolith stadium would do.

I agree with mowe, there are bigger issues to fix with Canadian soccer and the CSA than whether or not Canada should host a men's World Cup.

narduch
07-08-2012, 07:46 AM
I don't think its that insane of an idea. Besides I like it when people dream big, plus I think Canada can pull it off.

Look at the stadium sizes for South Africa - 84,490 - 64,100 - 62,760 - 55,686 - 42,858 - 42,486 - 41,733 - 40,929 - 40,911 - 38,646

The existing CFL stadiums alone can get you the bulk of those 40,000 seat stadiums.

Obviously you would need to build an 80,000 seat stadium in Toronto. That stadium could then be used for an NFL team and larger TFC friendlies.

With the new world economic realities, I don't think you need to have 10 80,000 seat stadiums to host an event like the World Cup.

Edit: Even the Brazil event will have 5 stadiums under 44,000 capacity.

Whoop
07-08-2012, 10:16 AM
Well if you're talking the size of stadiums if I'm FIFA I just go back to the US where I'm licensed to print money upon money.

Stadium size, TV, marketing... it's all there.

TFCRegina
07-08-2012, 11:01 AM
Hey idiots (Endearing term for everyone here, myself included...god knows i say stupid shit)

The smallest stadium in South Africa had 38,000 seats. Over half the stadiums had 42,000 or less.

You don't need a bunch of 60k plus stadiums.

You just need 1, with ones in the 50-60k range for semi finals.

Mulder
07-08-2012, 11:13 AM
The NFL is not coming to Toronto full time so everyone here can keep dreaming about that magical new 'nfl' stadium.

Even if it happens after the initial glitz and glamore has worn off, they'll struggle to sell tickets. And the only reason they'll stay afloat after that is because some media company has a stake in it and can subsidize it by paying an enormous amount for TV rights, who will intern sell advertising spots at an enormous rate to a different division within the same company, which intern will cause your cable/cell phone/internet bill to rise.

Oh wait, that's already happening with one Toronto team.

But if that's what it takes for people in this city to realize that the CFL has a more entertaining brand of football, so be it. Otherwise enjoy the 9-6 games.


As for Stadia.

Most here are correct,

BC Place
Edmonton has just undergone some renovations. They are replacing the seats this season. From what I remember it IS possible to add temps to the north endzone above the existing seats near the video board.
Calgary is in the beginning stages of looking at a new stadium. Since the ownership also owns the Flames, they are looking at a joint stadium/arena project.
Regina IS building a new facility. It was going to be a dome, but I think they decided it's not worth it. Open air facility and probably something similar to what Winnipeg is building, They are aiming for a total capacity of 50,000+ for Grey Cups from what I've heard. (Temp seats)
Winnipeg's new stadium will be done late this year. 45,000 ish with temps
Hamilton new stadium will start out to seat 22,000. I've seen the drawings. The way they are rebuilding it will allow for a second deck in the future on one sideline.
London is a possibility.
Ottawa's new stadium will be done for 2014. 24,000 capacity expandable to 50,000 with temps.
Montreal is looking at replacing Big-O's roof (again) with a retractable roof that actually works.
After that, you have Quebec City, and Moncton with stadiums that can work with temps/expansion

And Halifax has had a desire to build a stadium but can never seem to come up with the funding for it.

Cashcleaner
07-08-2012, 12:15 PM
Kinda makes you wonder about the York stadium that could have been. What if BMO Field was constructed on it's original intended location? http://stadiumdb.com/pic-projects/york_university_stadium/york_university_stadium01.jpg

Going by the designs I've seen, expansion at this site wouldn't be too difficult. It was built with 25,000 originally but the north and south ends have room to grow, as does the west side.

jabbronies
07-08-2012, 12:31 PM
While the government has been interested in hosting an Olympics in Toronto for example, the people aren't as willing. So how will the people of Canada support a World Cup where most of the new stadiums will have to be built with public money, where the facilities will have less legacy than Olympic facilities? The Olympics bring big TV ratings, and legacy features, to its citizens but if the appeal isn't there for an Olympics where is it for a World Cup, outside of soccer fans?

You'll need a new 75,000 seat stadium for Toronto. This will likely depend on getting a NFL team. Where do you build it? The best spot within Toronto would be by Woodbine as the space is there. Or do you raze BMO and build at the Ex? If so, does TFC play in a 75,000 seat stadium, share with a NFL team? Does TFC still exist? What happens to SkyDome? Do 3-4 teams (NFL, MLB, MLS, CFL) share the one new stadium? If SkyDome still stays, does only the NFL team play in the new NFL stadium?



Woodbine Beaches? or Woodbine North?

Stryker
07-08-2012, 01:37 PM
ROFLMFAO!

We'd be lucky to have a team good enough to qualify for the world cup on its own merits by 2026.

bigredone
07-08-2012, 02:33 PM
^Well than hosting SHOULD be our goal if we can't qualify through a tournament.

(shh, I don't think we can host either)

Whoop
07-08-2012, 04:51 PM
Woodbine Beaches? or Woodbine North?

Woodbine racetrack

Whoop
07-08-2012, 04:55 PM
Just have to be careful this kind of stuff doesn't happen.

South Africa's 'white elephant stadium should be converted into housing'

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/southafrica/9373324/South-Africas-white-elephant-stadium-should-be-converted-into-housing.html

Hunting White Elephants: New Study Questions Mega-Event Stadium Legacy

http://www.stadiumbusinesssummit.com/hunting-white-elephants-new-study-questions-mega-event-stadium-legacy/

(I went to the stadium in Leiria in 2004. It's no longer being used.)

THE UNWANTED LEGACY OF EURO 2012 (http://www.upflund.se/utrikesperspektiv/2012/6/4/the-unwanted-legacy-of-euro-2012.html)

http://www.upflund.se/utrikesperspektiv/2012/6/4/the-unwanted-legacy-of-euro-2012.html

Japanese stadiums turn into white elephants

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2002/jul/02/worldcupfootball2002.sport4

Hopefully the CFL will be in existence in 2026.

Just a different perspective in relation to a country that will need to build or upgrade its stadiums in order to host.

Toronto
07-08-2012, 11:31 PM
This is probably the worst idea to come out the CSA in decades. Like we need to spend 19 billion dollars of tax payer cash on this. Just give every soccer fan 100,000 dollars each to cover the cost of attending the next 3 WC's.

TOBOR !
07-09-2012, 07:11 AM
This totally has to be a smoke screen by the CSA. A little sleight of hand and misdirection.

Don't worry about results people. Sure, 2014 is beyond us and chances don't look good for 2018, but 2026 is only 8 years beyond that and we'll be there !

Fort York Redcoat
07-09-2012, 07:46 AM
This totally has to be a smoke screen by the CSA. A little sleight of hand and misdirection.

Don't worry about results people. Sure, 2014 is beyond us and chances don't look good for 2018, but 2026 is only 8 years beyond that and we'll be there !

Maybe misdirection but you skipped past the initial "Look at us! We're looking to improve our reputation!" mentality in the announcement.

This has the same likelihood to it as MLS teams talking of poaching the best players of the year (Messi, in previous years, Ronaldinho). It's desperation. You want my serious attention? Tell me plans to create a nation wide league at the Div3 level.

GabrielHurl
07-09-2012, 07:47 AM
Hamilton new stadium will start out to seat 22,000. I've seen the drawings. The way they are rebuilding it will allow for a second deck in the future on one sideline.

Not sure what plans you've seen - because all three proposed designs have second decks on both East and West Stands

TOBOR !
07-09-2012, 08:14 AM
Maybe misdirection but you skipped past the initial "Look at us! We're looking to improve our reputation!" mentality in the announcement.

This has the same likelihood to it as MLS teams talking of poaching the best players of the year (Messi, in previous years, Ronaldinho). It's desperation. You want my serious attention? Tell me plans to create a nation wide league at the Div3 level.

I must admit I didn't actually read the article. I didn't want to look any further after having read the headline for fear that the complete inanity of the idea would have me curling up into a facepalm.

Beach_Red
07-09-2012, 08:22 AM
Just have to be careful this kind of stuff doesn't happen.

South Africa's 'white elephant stadium should be converted into housing'

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/southafrica/9373324/South-Africas-white-elephant-stadium-should-be-converted-into-housing.html

Hunting White Elephants: New Study Questions Mega-Event Stadium Legacy

http://www.stadiumbusinesssummit.com/hunting-white-elephants-new-study-questions-mega-event-stadium-legacy/

(I went to the stadium in Leiria in 2004. It's no longer being used.)

THE UNWANTED LEGACY OF EURO 2012 (http://www.upflund.se/utrikesperspektiv/2012/6/4/the-unwanted-legacy-of-euro-2012.html)

http://www.upflund.se/utrikesperspektiv/2012/6/4/the-unwanted-legacy-of-euro-2012.html

Japanese stadiums turn into white elephants

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2002/jul/02/worldcupfootball2002.sport4

Hopefully the CFL will be in existence in 2026.

Just a different perspective in relation to a country that will need to build or upgrade its stadiums in order to host.


Oh sure, all those stadiums, but in this country a big sporting event could no more lose money than a man could have a baby... ;)

PopePouri
07-09-2012, 10:22 AM
Just have to be careful this kind of stuff doesn't happen.

South Africa's 'white elephant stadium should be converted into housing'

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/southafrica/9373324/South-Africas-white-elephant-stadium-should-be-converted-into-housing.html

Hunting White Elephants: New Study Questions Mega-Event Stadium Legacy

http://www.stadiumbusinesssummit.com/hunting-white-elephants-new-study-questions-mega-event-stadium-legacy/

(I went to the stadium in Leiria in 2004. It's no longer being used.)

THE UNWANTED LEGACY OF EURO 2012 (http://www.upflund.se/utrikesperspektiv/2012/6/4/the-unwanted-legacy-of-euro-2012.html)

http://www.upflund.se/utrikesperspektiv/2012/6/4/the-unwanted-legacy-of-euro-2012.html

Japanese stadiums turn into white elephants

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2002/jul/02/worldcupfootball2002.sport4

Hopefully the CFL will be in existence in 2026.

Just a different perspective in relation to a country that will need to build or upgrade its stadiums in order to host.

This is the thing. If they're going to take on this type of bid, a plan is required for use after the event which should then drive the design of the stadia. South Africa was poorly done. They should have consulted with Rugby SA to get an indication if the club teams could have taken occupation, or they could have worked with Cricket SA who were thinking of creating an IPL-like tournament and then design each stadia with T20 type dimensions. For Canada, they can work with CFL, design numerous 40 000 capacity stadia with temporary seating at the end zones that would be removed after the WC. They can also work with the MLS teams to get better facilities in the end with Vancouver getting their own Soccer-specific stadium.

stugautz
07-09-2012, 02:23 PM
A new stadium in Toronto doesn't have to be a football stadium. In Atlanta for the 1996 Olympics, the main stadium was temporary, and then converted to a baseball specific park after the games. Also, by 2026 skydome will be 37 years old. That could be old enough to require replacing by then.

GabrielHurl
07-09-2012, 02:28 PM
Is there still talk of a 2024 Olympics bid by the city? If so, there's your new stadium.

Beach_Red
07-09-2012, 02:35 PM
Is there still talk of a 2024 Olympics bid by the city? If so, there's your new stadium.

There would have to be some serious changes in the way this city thinks.

From an article in the Star today:

"The truth is that Toronto has reached an awkward stage in its evolution where it can no longer control or even keep up with the forces it has unleashed. It has become a big city; but still thinks like a small town. The advent of Rob Ford is about exactly this. Toronto’s ambivalence about having become a metropolis has never been more obvious."

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/1223406--hume-steve-nash-only-the-latest-to-refuse-toronto

Until this city can figure out a subway, it's far from an Olympic city.

TOBOR !
07-09-2012, 02:53 PM
Fuck me - even Toronto City Hall is run by MLSE ???

GabrielHurl
07-09-2012, 03:03 PM
Well - it's an article from The Star after all

prizby
07-09-2012, 03:24 PM
the stadium infrastructure: we'd need to build, rebuild, and renovate stadiums which will serve no purpose after completion (FIFA requires each stadium to at least seat 30k+)



many of the CFL stadiums need renovating in the next few years.






we lack the strength in CSA to put forth a proper bid.



CSA is reforming and bidding for the games is still a few years away (2019 at the latest)






the distance teams would have to travel to reach a suitable venue would be too great (it's a 6 hour flight between vancouver and toronto).



obviously you would regionalize the groups and then align the knockout stages




i believe if they launched a joint bid with the US, it'd sweeten the deal. you could run them on separate coasts so all they would have to do is hop the border, during the group stage into the knockout round. you wouldn't have to worry about venue infrastructure, and FIFA has always had a sweet spot for "developing the game" (ie: Canada and a revisit to the US).


the thing is the US don't need us for a bid and joint bids are frowned upon
if you look at the trend it goes: wildcard, standard, wildcard, standard



This would take a shitload of planning and a shitload of money. The CSA would have to convince the government to build several new stadiums and upgrade all the existing stadiums. No way that happens unless they also create a good long term plan to advance soccer in this country to the point where the stadiums would actually be put to full use afterwards. That means they'll need a plan to professionalize soccer in this country, because lets be honest, three MLS teams doesn't give us a real professional level. to really professionalize soccer in this country we need to be at the level where kids that are good have ambition to be pro. Right now I know quite a few kids who play rep soccer who've probably never even thought twice about the possibility of making it a career.
There's no reason why a country with 32 million people can't have a professional league for it's most played sport, other than lack of ambition.

you are going the wrong way about it. Building/renovating a stadium in cities like Quebec City/Halifax do not have to go the soccer route...in fact the CSA should be working with the CFL on that part. The stadiums could very well help bring expansion in the CFL and also not make the stadiums into white elephants.

As for the government, I believe a few years ago the government said something along the lines that they were committed to backing the hosting of two marquee sporting events a decade.



The issue isn't the stadia...thats a possiblity.

The issues come around the other aspects of hosting the tournament.

Airports (Doable).

Do cities like Regina, Winnipeg, Halifax/Moncton, and Hamilton have enough "FIFA" standard hotel rooms?

Are there enough quality training facilities for 32 teams to make a "base" at. Those will be two of the tougher tasks that need addressing for hosting the world cup

__wowza
07-09-2012, 03:59 PM
many of the CFL stadiums need renovating in the next few years.

the thing is the US don't need us for a bid and joint bids are frowned upon
if you look at the trend it goes: wildcard, standard, wildcard, standard


1. don't quote me against me jackass! :lol:
2. from this legit-ass document i found online (http://www.playthegame.org/fileadmin/documents/World_Stadium_Index_4_FIFA_WC.pdf), apparently we would need 12 stadiums all exceeding 40k.
60k for the knockout, and 80k for the final.

going from this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_stadiums_in_Canada, we'd have 4 stadiums that'd be ready to go at current capacity, not including only 2 ready to host the knockout round. none big enough to host the final. even with the addition of seating, we'd need to renovate 8 stadiums to fit at least another 6 with at least 10K worth of seats.

that's what i mean in terms of stadia problems. yes the CFL stadiums do need a revamp, but unless we're going the temporary seating route (even with the games fixed for soccer adding at least an extra 2k) i doubt they'd be able to find this affordable. having said that, its quite a ways off, so im not discounting the thought. we just have a big ass hill to climb.

Whoop
07-09-2012, 05:14 PM
Oh sure, all those stadiums, but in this country a big sporting event could no more lose money than a man could have a baby... ;)

LOL ah the legacy of Drapeau!

Whoop
07-09-2012, 05:17 PM
There would have to be some serious changes in the way this city thinks.

From an article in the Star today:

"The truth is that Toronto has reached an awkward stage in its evolution where it can no longer control or even keep up with the forces it has unleashed. It has become a big city; but still thinks like a small town. The advent of Rob Ford is about exactly this. Toronto’s ambivalence about having become a metropolis has never been more obvious."

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/1223406--hume-steve-nash-only-the-latest-to-refuse-toronto

Until this city can figure out a subway, it's far from an Olympic city.

This.

Currently in Lisbon, which has a population of over 500,000 and a metro pop of 2mil, and their subway system/suburban train system kicks Toronto's ass.

boban
07-09-2012, 06:45 PM
Fuck me - even Toronto City Hall is run by MLSE ???
How else do you think the Majors got run out of town?

prizby
07-09-2012, 07:59 PM
1. don't quote me against me jackass! :lol:
2. from this legit-ass document i found online (http://www.playthegame.org/fileadmin/documents/World_Stadium_Index_4_FIFA_WC.pdf), apparently we would need 12 stadiums all exceeding 40k.
60k for the knockout, and 80k for the final.

going from this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_stadiums_in_Canada, we'd have 4 stadiums that'd be ready to go at current capacity, not including only 2 ready to host the knockout round. none big enough to host the final. even with the addition of seating, we'd need to renovate 8 stadiums to fit at least another 6 with at least 10K worth of seats.

that's what i mean in terms of stadia problems. yes the CFL stadiums do need a revamp, but unless we're going the temporary seating route (even with the games fixed for soccer adding at least an extra 2k) i doubt they'd be able to find this affordable. having said that, its quite a ways off, so im not discounting the thought. we just have a big ass hill to climb.

re: 1. i'd agree with you, but there is no point in both of us being wrong :p

u can get away with temp seating and follow qatar's idea of donating it, but instead donate it to other towns in Canada that want a 5000 seat field and stuff like that

TOBOR !
07-09-2012, 11:07 PM
These multi-quote /reply posts do my head in. Can we not make an effort to edit these before posting ?

Whoop
07-10-2012, 03:50 AM
As for the government, I believe a few years ago the government said something along the lines that they were committed to backing the hosting of two marquee sporting events a decade.



The issue isn't the stadia...thats a possiblity.

The issues come around the other aspects of hosting the tournament.

Airports (Doable).

Do cities like Regina, Winnipeg, Halifax/Moncton, and Hamilton have enough "FIFA" standard hotel rooms?

Are there enough quality training facilities for 32 teams to make a "base" at. Those will be two of the tougher tasks that need addressing for hosting the world cup

1) I remember that but I believe that was mentioned before the world's economy collapsed in 2008.

2) You may be right on that point. (hotels/training grounds) That part kind of blows my mind that it's actually mandated by FIFA.

__wowza
07-10-2012, 08:11 AM
These multi-quote /reply posts do my head in. Can we not make an effort to edit these before posting ?

what he said, no use posting the entire thing if you're only going to cite one specific point. just a personal gripe i have.

prizby
07-10-2012, 09:19 AM
These multi-quote /reply posts do my head in. Can we not make an effort to edit these before posting ?

in what sense...i don't get it?


1) I remember that but I believe that was mentioned before the world's economy collapsed in 2008.

2) You may be right on that point. (hotels/training grounds) That part kind of blows my mind that it's actually mandated by FIFA.

1) I believe you are correct; it was before 2008 and I think it might have even been before Harper was in power.

2) Hotels not so much, but adaquete training grounds for the teams to be based at should be necessary...hate to see a team at a disadvantage due to poor training fields

TOBOR !
07-10-2012, 09:38 AM
^lulz

GabrielHurl
07-10-2012, 11:48 AM
2) You may be right on that point. (hotels/training grounds) That part kind of blows my mind that it's actually mandated by FIFA.

FIFA have a 420-page booklet that mandate a lot of things for a new stadium

boban
07-11-2012, 05:40 PM
FIFA have a 420-page booklet that mandate a lot of things for a new stadium
True, but nothing is edged in stone.
It's the whole package that has to be sold, not if one is short in one stadium or two.

Whoop
07-17-2012, 04:18 PM
You should see the debate going on in Edmonton over the building of a new rink.

If you think the Canadian appetite for funding sports facilities still exists in order to build/renovate a number of new stadiums in order to host the World Cup then I can see it. Otherwise, it's going to be tough sledding.

Whoop
07-17-2012, 04:23 PM
Here's a story from last year about Cincinnati's Paul Brown Stadium.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704461304576216330349497852.html

Similar situation to ours in Toronto with the SkyDome.

Keep in mind when a new stadium in Toronto will be needed whether for the NFL/Olympics/World Cup, you're going to be looking at bare minimum $500m+.

SilverSamurai
07-17-2012, 04:59 PM
This is a baaad idea.
How about we host the Gold Cup before something insane like the World Cup...

Fort York Redcoat
07-18-2012, 08:16 AM
How about we host the Gold Cup before something insane like the World Cup...

:iagree: FTW :iagree:

Said like a boss.


http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQswhb1bzkR4KMqPgKcvdmBShPKO8VmU ECEhO3_uXrjR-8TJxP8


You, Sir, have been repped.