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Yeoman
07-03-2012, 11:40 AM
http://www.prostamerika.com/2012/06/30/rapids-lift-lifetime-ban-for-swearing/66186

Colorado Rapids fan Teddy Montoya received a letter this week advising him of a lifetime ban from the club’s DSG Stadium. The letter was signed by Kroenke Sports Enterprises employee Peggy Miller.
The letter says that the ban will ‘not be lifted at any point in time.’
Following the receipt of the letter, which gave no reason whatsoever for the ban (https://twitter.com/teddy_montoya/status/218138819101331457/photo/1), Montoya began to make inquiries.
As he sought more answers from the club, a story unraveled that will disturb organised supporter groups on a number of levels.
The reason Montoya was given for his lifetime ban was “verbal assault.”
In other words, the Rapids seems to have banned someone for life from their stadium for swearing.
Were he in a family section, a steward may well have warned him that other spectators were offended and he could be told to sit down and keep quiet.
But Montoya was not in a family section. He was standing in the Rapids Supporters Section, an enclave specifically created by the Colorado club to encourage or at least tolerate the rougher edges of supporter culture.
The facts do not seem to be in dispute. After seeing his side concede a late penalty kick to San Jose Earthquakes, Montoya yelled his opinion of the decision, an opinion he concedes was redolent with expletives.
“I said it was a fucking bullshit call. I said it more than once,” he admitted.
A friend of Montoya’s, Angel Accardi, witnessed the ensuing confrontation:

“Teddy said fuck at a bad call, the security dude was like chill out this is a family friendly venue, then this Gabe guy comes and tells him quit being a dick, I was like you’re telling him not to cuss but calling him a dick?? He looked shocked I told him I want a picture of his badge in case it goes further, he said ‘Go ahead here.’ then put it in my face and then took it away when he seen I was taking one for certain.”
A KSE employee named Austin, on behalf of the ban letter’s author Peggy Miller, called Montoya and told him that his ban was not just for the San Jose incident.
Austin told him that multiple incidents had been recorded in a file on him, a file kept unbeknownst to Montoya.
If the thought of a football club keeping secret files on individual supporters is not startling enough, Montoya observed that the secrecy means he has been charged and found guilty on previous occasions without his knowledge.
He says he was deprived of the right to give evidence or even know there was an accusation. Yet these incidents are permitted to contribute to a situation where he is one F-Bomb away from a life time ban.

“If I had known I was on two strikes in a three strikes and you’re out legal system, yeah .. I might have watched my behaviour more. But no-one told me. It’s like a player is one yellow card from being sent off but he doesn’t know. We’ve got a right to know what is being written about us, especially if it’s being used to judge us.”
http://www.prostamerika.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/CRW_0808-240x160.jpg (http://www.prostamerika.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/CRW_0808.jpg)Timbers fans joined in the protest against the ban

Montoya added that the KSE employee, Austin whose surname he didn’t catch, refused to discuss these previous incidents leaving Montoya no idea what he has been accused of, by whom and who delivered the verdict.
They refused to show him the files when he requested them.
The affair certainly has civil liberties implications.
Montayo has been charged, tried and found guilty of these previous incidents with no opportunity to put his case, or defend himself.
The word of his accusers has been taken as fact and their identity hidden. Even the existence of this record of previous offences has been kept from him.
There is not a legal system in any democratic nation where this lack of due process would fly.
Those implications may be felt elsewhere as although the venue may be operated by KSE, it is owned by the municipality Commerce City (http://www.dickssportinggoodspark.com/Stadium/FAQs.aspx).
The affair has begun to spread across social media with sites in the Pacific Northwest referencing the initial story on Rapids fansite Burgundy Wave (http://www.burgundywave.com/2012/6/28/3123161/colorado-rapids-fan-banned-dsgp-verbal-assult).
One poster there wrote:

“I want to be clear and state that this is a very sad situation, but there’s got to be something else to this story…lifetime bans don’t simply occur just because someone verbally assaulted a stadium official.”
Austin told Montoya that he can have a discussion with DSG Park Senior Director of Venue Operations Allison Hamilton about lifting the ban, which seems to directly contradict the letter, making this story even more puzzling.
However Montoya was also told that Ms Hamilton was out of the office on Friday, and he should not expect to hear back from her until next week.
As Montoya points out, this may suit Ms Hamilton’s schedule but not his:

“We play Portland Timbers on Saturday. I have a lot of friends in the Timbers Army. It’s a game I really look forward to. I’m gutted that I’ll miss this one.”
A Rapids spokesman confirmed the existence of the files but told us:

“I dont want to comment on the specifics of one person’s file but yes we do keep files on fan incidents.”
Montoya will regret the ban. His side beat the Portland Timbers 3-0 (http://www.prostamerika.com/2012/06/30/rapids-roll-timid-timbers/66267).

ryan
07-03-2012, 11:57 AM
What in the hell. What a bloody joke.

VoxPopuliCosmicum
07-03-2012, 12:13 PM
The affair certainly has civil liberties implications.
Montayo has been charged, tried and found guilty of these previous incidents with no opportunity to put his case, or defend himself.
The word of his accusers has been taken as fact and their identity hidden. Even the existence of this record of previous offences has been kept from him.
There is not a legal system in any democratic nation where this lack of due process would fly.

I have to call BS on the above. The US is clearly on the road to becoming a police state, but to say this incident has anything to do with civil liberties is ridiculous. It's a private company, not a government. There's nothing illegal about a business keeping records of its customers for its own use. And there's nothing illegal about a business banning someone from its premises as long as the reasons for doing so are not racism/sexism/homophobia etc.

By the same token, there's nothing to prevent the customers from boycotting the business if they don't like what the business has done.

flatpicker
07-03-2012, 12:16 PM
Yikes! That's just wrong.

What are the odds that MLSE keeps files on us?

__wowza
07-03-2012, 12:36 PM
what else can you say? this is ridiculous.


Yikes! That's just wrong.

What are the odds that MLSE keeps files on us?

methinks i smell the next "scenes from a hat" thread in this..

Phil
07-03-2012, 12:42 PM
Yikes! That's just wrong.

What are the odds that MLSE keeps files on us?

With all the turnover that happens I highly doubt they keep much on us.

That being said, I might have a horse head in my bed tonight. LOL

[NBF]
07-03-2012, 01:13 PM
The files are kept in a computer for safe keeping.

http://splitsider.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/jerry_stiller_zoolander_001.jpg

Beach_Red
07-03-2012, 01:14 PM
I have to call BS on the above. The US is clearly on the road to becoming a police state, but to say this incident has anything to do with civil liberties is ridiculous. It's a private company, not a government. There's nothing illegal about a business keeping records of its customers for its own use. And there's nothing illegal about a business banning someone from its premises as long as the reasons for doing so are not racism/sexism/homophobia etc.

By the same token, there's nothing to prevent the customers from boycotting the business if they don't like what the business has done.

That "etc" leaves things kind of vague, doesn't it?

Derko
07-03-2012, 01:16 PM
This is a shame and a farce, Sounds like 1984 thought police!

http://glenmontgroup.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/thoughtpolice1.jpg

TOBOR !
07-03-2012, 01:17 PM
with all the unwanted attention this is going to get I'd wager we'll see a climbdown soon enough and Teduardo will receive a conditional discharge.

Yeoman
07-03-2012, 02:40 PM
this is not the first time the bulldogs and other groups in colorado have had issues. this won't be the last. this guy is a terrible owner, almost as bad as what we have to deal with.
if i am not mistaken, they also have the same security as new england does. so some of us are aware how bad they are.
i am intending to do a free teddy two stick and am currently in discussions with people over the for avenues of approach on this. if anyone wants to help, feel free to give me a hollar.

Phil
07-03-2012, 02:42 PM
For those wondering, this is the same event currently being discussed in the members area.

111_DrummerBoy
07-03-2012, 03:20 PM
Yikes! That's just wrong.

What are the odds that MLSE keeps files on us?

I remember it was either the first or second season (maybe third, they've all blended together now), where a cop had a list and was pointing out people from the list to another cop. To be honest I am not sure what was on that list, but it looked like they had a list of people they were keeping an eye on. This was around the era of excessive use of flairs / beer cups / objects and streakers on the field. And I haven't seen this practice since. But it wouldn't surprise me if they knew who the trouble makers are.

VoxPopuliCosmicum
07-03-2012, 03:24 PM
That "etc" leaves things kind of vague, doesn't it?

It's actually meant to be somewhat precise while at the same time allowing for jurisdictional differences. Perhaps, rather than "racism/sexism/homophobia", I should have written "prohibited grounds of discrimination in the jurisdiction in question". Canadian courts call them "personal, immutable characteristics", although that phrase is not favoured in the US (especially in re: sexual orientation) for obvious reasons.

In any event, getting banned from a stadium for swearing (which appears to be a stupid decision by the club, IMO) cannot be said to be "discriminatory" in the civil rights/civil liberties sense of the word.

Yeoman
07-03-2012, 03:28 PM
well considering the US just struck down the stolen valour case due to freedom of speech, i don't see how this is all that much different. but i know this is your area and will promptly school me

London
07-03-2012, 03:49 PM
didnt the police have a list of 40 people on radar 3-4 years ago??

also you often see security writing on pads and sometimes other security coming by, pointing up and discussing things.

you never know if they are doing the same thing to us??

ryan
07-03-2012, 05:29 PM
didnt the police have a list of 40 people on radar 3-4 years ago??

also you often see security writing on pads and sometimes other security coming by, pointing up and discussing things.

you never know if they are doing the same thing to us??

Security/Police takes notes for everything, it's part of doing that kind of work. They all have notepads that they write in every short bit (like 20 mins) or if they see something of note to write about.

sidvan
07-03-2012, 06:01 PM
yes like...that guy in 115 is waving a flag..throw him out.

Phil
07-03-2012, 07:04 PM
yes like...that guy in 115 is waving a flag..throw him out.

I hate to say it but Marco gets a fair bit of confrontation on a regular basis from security. Usually its a new guard in the south who thinks the supporter 'zone' is only in 112, 113 and 127. The re-education process is a tormenting one, I can tell you from experience.

Code Red
07-03-2012, 09:46 PM
I hate to say it but Marco gets a fair bit of confrontation on a regular basis from security. Usually its a new guard in the south who thinks the supporter 'zone' is only in 112, 113 and 127. The re-education process is a tormenting one, I can tell you from experience.

And there lies part of the reason why our support is dwindling. In fact, I'm willing to wager that the reason you only see flags in 112 and some in 113 is because the supporters in other sections think that they are prohibited. With new security guards coming over and giving individuals hassles over flags that have every right to be there, the supporters sections will continue to see a decline to unprecedented levels.

#MakeTheSouthStandGA

VoxPopuliCosmicum
07-03-2012, 09:50 PM
well considering the US just struck down the stolen valour case due to freedom of speech, i don't see how this is all that much different. but i know this is your area and will promptly school me

That case involved a law aimed at limiting free speech (specifically, the freedom to falsely claim to be a military vet). The difference between that case in the Crapids fan is that the Crapids are a private "person" (i.e. a corporation), not a government. The Bill of Rights (in the US) / Charter of Rights (in Canada) does not apply to actions taken by persons, only actions taken by or on behalf of governments (such as the passage of laws).

Kaz
07-03-2012, 11:09 PM
That case involved a law aimed at limiting free speech (specifically, the freedom to falsely claim to be a military vet). The difference between that case in the Crapids fan is that the Crapids are a private "person" (i.e. a corporation), not a government. The Bill of Rights (in the US) / Charter of Rights (in Canada) does not apply to actions taken by persons, only actions taken by or on behalf of governments (such as the passage of laws).

But wouldn't being banned from a city own stadium for actions in the heat of a moment at a football game, have implications should he want to by tickets to another event at the stadium that isn't run by the owners of the team?

If I do something stupid at a Blue Jays game, I may be banned from the games but would I be banned from the boat show too?

VoxPopuliCosmicum
07-04-2012, 06:21 PM
Ownership of the stadium is almost certainly irrelevant. It is most likely leased to a company that manages it and has the capacity to refuse admission to people that it wishes to refuse (provided the refusal is not based on the prohibited grounds of race, etc.).

As for your boat show example, it all depends on who issued the ban and which events they get to control access to the stadium for.

Technorgasm
07-05-2012, 06:17 AM
im pretty sure the majority of the people who post here should be on life time bans from BMO if you use this 'swearibng' incident as a gauge.

I cant point to a few people in this thread that have said, screamed, yelled FAR worse than "fuck, bullshit call'

I am in shock.
cant believe this is real.
Has anyone ever been to a college football game? jeebus!!

Yeoman
07-18-2012, 03:30 AM
http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/7005/image0095l.jpg

okay so you don't see all of it
but this will be in the south stand somewhere.

bones
07-18-2012, 12:21 PM
http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/7005/image0095l.jpg

okay so you don't see all of it
but this will be in the south stand somewhere.


we should pass this baby up from Row 1 to the top then back down so it gets media attention.

OfficeGuy
07-18-2012, 01:54 PM
I hate to say it but Marco gets a fair bit of confrontation on a regular basis from security. Usually its a new guard in the south who thinks the supporter 'zone' is only in 112, 113 and 127. The re-education process is a tormenting one, I can tell you from experience.


Same goes for the 75 Mile Bastards in their section at the top - not all areas with supporters that have flags have been properly designated and does add to confusion since ushers/security are moved around from game to game