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denime
06-27-2012, 05:38 AM
Mornin'



:drum::scarf:GAME DAY!!:scarf::drum:


TFC TV



(http://www.torontofc.ca/video)Help on its way for TFC? (http://www.torontosun.com/2012/06/26/help-on-its-way-for-tfc)


TFC deal with less than ideal training field (http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/2012/06/26/tfc_training_field/)


Impact ready to unveil Di Vaio against TFC (http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/2012/06/26/montreal_impact_marco_di_vaio/)


Contrite Toronto FC rookie Luis Silva calls arrest in Houston ‘stupid mistake’ (http://www.thestar.com/sports/soccer/mls/torontofc/article/1217020--contrite-toronto-fc-rookie-luis-silva-calls-arrest-in-houston-stupid-mistake)




TFC Related Blogs !!



(http://redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?29582-TFC-MLS-blogs-thread)



SUNSHINE (http://www.torontosun.com/sunshine-girl)




(http://www.torontofc.ca/video)

Fort York Redcoat
06-27-2012, 06:11 AM
Shouldn't they save the "Help coming to TFC?" story for tomorrow after tonight's match? Whatever. I'll be happy for it but it still seems a long way off with 2 games to go before the window's open. Every game counts for Mariner.

Technorgasm
06-27-2012, 06:56 AM
full time kool-aide drinker. .


OH YEAAHHH!

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-BkOG-IjJoBw/Tp5Cux-XSMI/AAAAAAAAAKU/cHLkun6hvD4/s1600/koolaid.jpg

Oldtimer
06-27-2012, 07:21 AM
Toronto FC coach Paul Mariner calls him a "difference-maker." Montreal coach Jesse Marsch marvels at his attacking skills.

The fans will get to see former Italian international Marco Di Vaio for themselves Wednesday night as the Impact (5-8-3) host Toronto (1-10-2).


TFC is gonna get killed.

ManUtd4ever
06-27-2012, 07:25 AM
full time kool-aide drinker. .


OH YEAAHHH!

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-BkOG-IjJoBw/Tp5Cux-XSMI/AAAAAAAAAKU/cHLkun6hvD4/s1600/koolaid.jpg


:lol:

Pookie
06-27-2012, 07:28 AM
Convinced that Mariner is better at spin than Winter's Dutch/Honest approach.

Winter said "we need better players"

Mariner says "we are young"

On that last point, if we are to believe the spin that Winter ruled with an iron fist and Mariner was unable to influence roster, we then have to believe that when Winter said "We need better players" he was essentially throwing himself under the bus.

scooter
06-27-2012, 07:33 AM
mornin d

ManUtd4ever
06-27-2012, 07:33 AM
Convinced that Mariner is better at spin than Winter's Dutch/Honest approach.

Winter said "we need better players"

Mariner says "we are young"

On that last point, if we are to believe the spin that Winter ruled with an iron fist and Mariner was unable to influence roster, we then have to believe that when Winter said "We need better players" he was essentially throwing himself under the bus.

Alternatively, Winter may have had unrealistic expectations regarding the general calibre of players that he and/or Mariner would be able to sign to fill out a MLS roster that would be able to effectively execute his preferred tactical approach on a consistent basis.

denime
06-27-2012, 07:35 AM
Alternatively, Winter may have had unrealistic expectations regarding the general calibre of players that he and/or Mariner would be able to sign to fill out a MLS roster that would be able to effectively execute his preferred tactical approach.

and that's why Mariner in order to help his boss Winter signed Aceval,Caceido and Iro.:facepalm:

DaBandit
06-27-2012, 07:37 AM
Morning..

Oh my god, larson throwing winter under the bus again.. Winter failed in getting a cb in the last 18 months, apparently Mariner had nothing to do with it.. Is Larson on the TFC payroll now? What a joke, now the T.O. Media is spinning things for ML$E..

denime
06-27-2012, 07:43 AM
Morning..

Oh my god, larson throwing winter under the bus again.. Winter failed in getting a cb in the last 18 months, apparently Mariner had nothing to do with it.. Is Larson on the TFC payroll now? What a joke, now the T.O. Media is spinning things for ML$E..

Check Larson's twitter from yesterday,not only he is throwing winter under the bus,but he loves Mariner so much that his whole head is in Mariner's ass,that he can't see the reality from fiction anymore.

DaBandit
06-27-2012, 07:49 AM
Check Larson's twitter from yesterday,not only he is throwing winter under the bus,but he loves Mariner so much that his whole head is up his ass.

Well thats apparent.. At the bottom of his column he's justifying Frings being pulled in Saturdays game, calling him 'ineffective'.. Really ineffective? I thought he was pretty effective as the reds were up 2-0 when he got subbed out...

On a side note according to Larson we'll be seeing Emory in for Henry tonight.. I don't think that will help our chances tonight either..

__wowza
06-27-2012, 07:57 AM
With each successive meeting more intense than the last, chemistry and unity could play a big role in shaping the outcome of the fourth edition of the “401 Derby.”

whose calling it the 401 derby?
i much prefer the plains of abraham!

backbeat
06-27-2012, 08:09 AM
Shouldn't they save the "Help coming to TFC?" story for tomorrow after tonight's match? Whatever. I'll be happy for it but it still seems a long way off with 2 games to go before the window's open. Every game counts for Mariner.

i thought i heard the window opened earlier this year - today in fact.

Can someone confirm the window date?

brad
06-27-2012, 08:10 AM
Haven't seen Di Vaio play in a few years. How is he these days, has he dropped off a lot with age yet?

Auzzy
06-27-2012, 08:11 AM
Isn't the window opening today, and that's why MDV can play for Montreal today?

backbeat
06-27-2012, 08:13 AM
whose calling it the 401 derby?
i much prefer the plains of abraham!

the 401 is only in Ontario so it would be the Macdonald–Cartier derby or the 401-20 derby!!

Joe Kool
06-27-2012, 08:15 AM
Can't believe they are not happy with the pitch at their $20M facility. You would think that is one thing they would get right with all the press about it and how they are going to be leading edge. Maybe they need better workers....or maybe they are just young....depends who you talk to I guess around TFC.

Phil
06-27-2012, 08:18 AM
Isn't the window opening today, and that's why MDV can play for Montreal today?

Yup:

27 June – 27 July

1 Month for the chase.

Chase of our tails mayble, hahaha.

Fort York Redcoat
06-27-2012, 08:20 AM
Yup:

27 June – 27 July

1 Month for the chase.

Chase of our tails mayble, hahaha.

Well then announce away, TFC. Now is the time...

Red CB Toronto
06-27-2012, 08:31 AM
Shouldn't they save the "Help coming to TFC?" story for tomorrow after tonight's match? Whatever. I'll be happy for it but it still seems a long way off with 2 games to go before the window's open. Every game counts for Mariner.

I agree, focus on the next two games, at least out in the public, then come Sunday try to make something happen with some additions to the roster.

Canary10
06-27-2012, 08:56 AM
When Winter and Mariner were hired this is what the press release said:

"Paul will be responsible for our club’s scouting, player acquisition, player development and our Academy,”

Larson is giving him a complete free ride on the player acquisition, saying this job description sounded like a catch-all and he wasn't really responsbile for it. If that were the case, given that Rongen was responsbile for the academy for quite a while, Mariner I guess was doing nothing. He obviously wasn't scouting either, or he may have known Aceval is shit.

Auzzy
06-27-2012, 09:24 AM
^ Just a totally wild guess here. Maybe Mariner was more in charge of player acquisitions early during the Winter/Mariner era..? But after he found us Andy Iro and some other early failures, his responsibilities were reduced..?

For the life of me, I can't imagine that Winter or BDK would have been the ones to find Andy Iro.

Ajax TFC
06-27-2012, 09:25 AM
I read the Larson article to see what the reaction in the comments would be. I was satisfied.

and anyone who's freaking out about Montreal's new striker needs to be reminded that we have the best player in the league :scarf:
http://www.mlssoccer.com/castrol/index

denime
06-27-2012, 09:30 AM
Well thats apparent.. At the bottom of his column he's justifying Frings being pulled in Saturdays game, calling him 'ineffective'.. Really ineffective? I thought he was pretty effective as the reds were up 2-0 when he got subbed out...

On a side note according to Larson we'll be seeing Emory in for Henry tonight.. I don't think that will help our chances tonight either..

And I if you go to that page again you will see some guys already replied to his shit article,very funny.

denime
06-27-2012, 09:35 AM
Can't believe they are not happy with the pitch at their $20M facility. You would think that is one thing they would get right with all the press about it and how they are going to be leading edge. Maybe they need better workers....or maybe they are just young....depends who you talk to I guess around TFC.

That pitch complain is just lame excuse.

The field they practiced is Downsview park field not TFC 1st team grass field,Downsview park field is on the east side of the complex and totally exposed,and beside the landing strip,new and still not finished 1st team grass pitch will be finished by august.
TFC 1st team grass pitch is south from new facility and will be partially protected from North winds,south from that field is Bombardier hangar.

So our TFC 1st team is PRACTICING ON THAT FIELD ALMOST 2 MONTHS and now all of the sudden it's the problem?

It is a problem if you practice looooong balls all the time,but if you teach your team possession game,wind doesn't matter,ball is on the ground anyway.

Suds
06-27-2012, 09:35 AM
full time kool-aide drinker. .


OH YEAAHHH!

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-BkOG-IjJoBw/Tp5Cux-XSMI/AAAAAAAAAKU/cHLkun6hvD4/s1600/koolaid.jpg

I'm guessing it's not just kool-aid in that glass of yours. g:D

:drinking:

ManUtd4ever
06-27-2012, 09:39 AM
Well thats apparent.. At the bottom of his column he's justifying Frings being pulled in Saturdays game, calling him 'ineffective'.. Really ineffective? I thought he was pretty effective as the reds were up 2-0 when he got subbed out...


I like Frings, but he was was absolutely brutal on Saturday.

Canary10
06-27-2012, 09:43 AM
And I if you go to that page again you will see some guys already replied to his shit article,very funny.

Hmmm. Who is "Legioen?"

Pookie
06-27-2012, 10:21 AM
Alternatively, Winter may have had unrealistic expectations regarding the general calibre of players that he and/or Mariner would be able to sign to fill out a MLS roster that would be able to effectively execute his preferred tactical approach on a consistent basis.

Not sure I follow.

If Winter had exclusive control over roster, then to claim that they need better players (when he said this in 2012) after a massive roster overhaul would be a damning comment on his ability to sign the right guys. I know he is Dutch and honest but I don't think he is naive.

I don't know if Larson is in Mariner's camp. What it sounds like to me is that Mariner and those associated with him are feeding a number of lines for the media to distance themselves from the truth. He may simply be reporting what he has heard.

To me, it just doesn't add up.

At the end of the day that's unacceptable. Not because I want him fired. For the record, 100% I don't want that to happen. It's unacceptable because it tries to erase the line that connects the previous 19 months from the previous 5 years and in doing so attempts to erase the line to our leadership.

We need to be vigilant and not allow pressure to be relieved simply because of the fact he is a "new coach" and "needs time." He had time. 19 months. Anselmi had even more time. Almost 6 years. Not working. Change it.

DaBandit
06-27-2012, 10:23 AM
I like Frings, but he was was absolutely brutal on Saturday.

I'm not saying that Frings was great on Saturday. All I'm saying is that I didn't find him ineffective, we were leading up until he got subbed. Which leads me to believe that he filled is role quite effectively. Even if he was ineffective, an ineffective Frings is still better then ANYONE sitting on the bench for TFC when we are trying to protect a 2 goal lead.

cheers,

yellowfellow
06-27-2012, 10:27 AM
We need to put 90 minutes together. I was preaching that to (the team) today ... Ninety-three minutes isn’t good enough.”

So, we need to put together 90 minutes because 93 is not enough? No wonder our players are lost out there...

FreekAce
06-27-2012, 10:31 AM
Hmmm. Who is "Legioen?"

*cough*

Rudi
06-27-2012, 10:49 AM
and that's why Mariner in order to help his boss Winter signed Aceval,Caceido and Iro.:facepalm:
So Mariner signed those three on his own?

Phil
06-27-2012, 10:59 AM
Everyone needs to remember that Winter had final say. So Mariner could work all he wanted to bring in X players and at the end of the day Aron had the final say.

Now Mariner has more control.

How that all works out, who knows?

The window might be fun, but I don't think we have too much money to play with.

Greatest Ripoff
06-27-2012, 11:16 AM
So Mariner signed those three on his own?

Most likely not but his job was to scout the players and help acquire them. So assuming he did his job, part of the blame should have fallen on him. And when Toronto chose to replace Winter he should have gone as well instead of getting promoted.


If he really had nothing to with player acquisition then what was he doing for the past year and a half?

Rudi
06-27-2012, 11:29 AM
Most likely not but his job was to scout the players and help acquire them. So assuming he did his job, part of the blame should have fallen on him. And when Toronto chose to replace Winter he should have gone as well instead of getting promoted.


If he really had nothing to with player acquisition then what was he doing for the past year and a half?
My thoughts are in line with what Phil wrote above.

Mariner probably holds claim to some of the blame for the mess that TFC is in now, but as the top boss he can affect change far more than what he was able to up until a few weeks ago. Only time will tell if he's the right man to untangle everything, but IMO it's far too early to be crucifying him for every little move he makes (or moves he may or may not have made in his old role).

The bigger picture will be revealed by the end of the season, for better or for worse. Even that might not be enough to truly judge, but it will at least give a more realistic glimpse of the direction the club is headed.

ManUtd4ever
06-27-2012, 11:37 AM
Not sure I follow.

If Winter had exclusive control over roster, then to claim that they need better players (when he said this in 2012) after a massive roster overhaul would be a damning comment on his ability to sign the right guys. I know he is Dutch and honest but I don't think he is naive.

I don't know if Larson is in Mariner's camp. What it sounds like to me is that Mariner and those associated with him are feeding a number of lines for the media to distance themselves from the truth. He may simply be reporting what he has heard.

To me, it just doesn't add up.

At the end of the day that's unacceptable. Not because I want him fired. For the record, 100% I don't want that to happen. It's unacceptable because it tries to erase the line that connects the previous 19 months from the previous 5 years and in doing so attempts to erase the line to our leadership.

We need to be vigilant and not allow pressure to be relieved simply because of the fact he is a "new coach" and "needs time." He had time. 19 months. Anselmi had even more time. Almost 6 years. Not working. Change it.

But that's just it. Winter constantly threw the players under the bus before and after the roster was overhauled because they were obviously incapable of executing his system effectively.

I am of the opinion that both Winter and Mariner have their fingerprints on the current roster, and I believe the collective skillset of the players is good enough to comprise an above average squad by MLS standards. Therefore, I believe that Winter may have miscalculated regarding his ability to integrate his version of the 4-3-3 with the first team within a reasonable timeframe, based on the general calibre of players available within a salary capped league that is still in it's infancy stages.

FreekAce
06-27-2012, 11:40 AM
My thoughts are in line with what Phil wrote above.

Mariner probably holds claim to some of the blame for the mess that TFC is in now, but as the top boss he can affect change far more than what he was able to up until a few weeks ago. Only time will tell if he's the right man to untangle everything, but IMO it's far too early to be crucifying him for every little move he makes (or moves he may or may not have made in his old role).

The bigger picture will be revealed by the end of the season, for better or for worse. Even that might not be enough to truly judge, but it will at least give a more realistic glimpse of the direction the club is headed.

yup, getting rid of mariner along with winter would also rid us of the last bit of stability.
don't think i'll ever be a fan of mariner's style of play, but at this point i just want something to function in this squad.

ManUtd4ever
06-27-2012, 11:45 AM
I'm not saying that Frings was great on Saturday. All I'm saying is that I didn't find him ineffective, we were leading up until he got subbed. Which leads me to believe that he filled is role quite effectively. Even if he was ineffective, an ineffective Frings is still better then ANYONE sitting on the bench for TFC when we are trying to protect a 2 goal lead.

cheers,

Understood. I think the larger issue is that Mariner made a mistake by bringing in 2 offensive substitutes at the expense of Frings and JDG. They were both exhausted, but he should have replaced them with defensive reinforcements instead. Williams and Stinson were available.

Dreadlocks
06-27-2012, 11:45 AM
So, we need to put together 90 minutes because 93 is not enough? No wonder our players are lost out there...

^^

:willy_nilly::willy_nilly::willy_nilly:

LMFAO

Pookie
06-27-2012, 12:01 PM
But that's just it. Winter constantly threw the players under the bus before and after the roster was overhauled because they were obviously incapable of executing his system effectively.

I am of the opinion that both Winter and Mariner have their fingerprints on the current roster, and I believe the collective skillset of the players is good enough to comprise an above average squad by MLS standards. Therefore, I believe that Winter may have miscalculated regarding his ability to integrate his version of the 4-3-3 with the first team within a reasonable timeframe, based on the general calibre of players available within a salary capped league that is still in it's infancy stages.

Interesting words in your reply, "reasonable timeframe". Fans in SKC are glad they stuck with it for 5 years and may now enjoy the spoils of a new 4-3-3 system which is tactically better than anything a traditional MLS model can offer (that applies to more than just TFC of course). I am very interested to see how many teams will eventually try to copy SKC in the years ahead, if they end up winning.

Anyways, AW is gone and we have PM now. I wish him well and I am pulling for him to do well.

However, I am also not willing to give him a "grace period" in the traditional sense. We abandoned a vision because we wanted better results. That is what needs to be delivered and it needs to be delivered tonight and then again on Saturday.

Never lose sight of the fact that results are connected to the Exec's office. A grace period for PM is a grace period for TA

arsenal
06-27-2012, 12:07 PM
Understood. I think the larger issue is that Mariner made a mistake by bringing in 2 offensive substitutes at the expense of Frings and JDG. They were both exhausted, but he should have replaced them with defensive reinforcements instead. Williams and Stinson were available.

Frings looked gassed and needed to be subbed. But instead of simply swapping out Frings ..... Mariner felt the need to bring in Emory @ LCB .... which moved Henry from LCB to RCB, Eckersley from RCB to RB, and moved Hall up to midfield (and possibly required Dunfield or DuGuzman to switch midfield roles for Hall). This to me has poisoned my view on Mariner as a coach. Truly out of touch to force that many players to adjust to new position/responsibilities 60-70 minutes into a game that we had the lead and had at least been performing adequately on defense.

Pookie
06-27-2012, 12:16 PM
To say something positive though, I really like the play of Hall. Lots of hustle and compete in that guy. Was also very surprised to see how Dan Gargan/Adrian Serioux-esque his throw ins are.

denime
06-27-2012, 12:28 PM
So Mariner signed those three on his own?

No he did not,it was team work and both of them are at fault that we have roster as it is,but let's not forget that Mariner was hired to "help" Winter with MLS rules,players,trades etc and he FAILED 100%.

Mariner and Cochrane did not know about $500K we paid for Plata will go against the cap,really?
Iro was Mariners trade for Tchani,remember Winter can sign only players that Mariner brings to tryouts,right?

What Winter can do if his "helper and main scout" Mariner brings him beginning of March 2 months into a preseason and a week or two before CCL game Aceval and Caceido and no one else that can play that position,say fook off and go without any CBs or try your luck,believing your scout did his job properly when he scouted those two players.

starter
06-27-2012, 12:45 PM
Frings looked gassed and needed to be subbed. But instead of simply swapping out Frings ..... Mariner felt the need to bring in Emory @ LCB .... which moved Henry from LCB to RCB, Eckersley from RCB to RB, and moved Hall up to midfield (and possibly required Dunfield or DuGuzman to switch midfield roles for Hall). This to me has poisoned my view on Mariner as a coach. Truly out of touch to force that many players to adjust to new position/responsibilities 60-70 minutes into a game that we had the lead and had at least been performing adequately on defense.

That was really dumb!

ManUtd4ever
06-27-2012, 12:54 PM
Frings looked gassed and needed to be subbed. But instead of simply swapping out Frings ..... Mariner felt the need to bring in Emory @ LCB .... which moved Henry from LCB to RCB, Eckersley from RCB to RB, and moved Hall up to midfield (and possibly required Dunfield or DuGuzman to switch midfield roles for Hall). This to me has poisoned my view on Mariner as a coach. Truly out of touch to force that many players to adjust to new position/responsibilities 60-70 minutes into a game that we had the lead and had at least been performing adequately on defense.

Mariner needs to adjust his tactical approach towards protecting the lead and late game substitutions without question. On the other hand, at least TFC was in a position to win against Houston and New England, and that in of itself is somewhat of a step in the right direction compared to earlier in the season.

Oldtimer
06-27-2012, 01:20 PM
Mariner needs to adjust his tactical approach towards protecting the lead and late game substitutions without question. On the other hand, at least TFC was in a position to win against Houston and New England, and that in of itself is somewhat of a step in the right direction compared to earlier in the season.

... but not better than the second half of last season.

I would have expected similar results from Winter.

BTW, I'm a little confused why you like Mariner so much as a coach. I understand Gunners fans love for him period (he was a legend as a player), but as a coach for a United fan he is about the antithesis to Sir Alex.

__wowza
06-27-2012, 01:23 PM
When Winter and Mariner were hired this is what the press release said:

"Paul will be responsible for our club’s scouting, player acquisition, player development and our Academy,”

Larson is giving him a complete free ride on the player acquisition, saying this job description sounded like a catch-all and he wasn't really responsbile for it. If that were the case, given that Rongen was responsbile for the academy for quite a while, Mariner I guess was doing nothing. He obviously wasn't scouting either, or he may have known Aceval is shit.

see, it's shit like this i rep for.

ManUtd4ever
06-27-2012, 01:32 PM
... but not better than the second half of last season.

I would have expected similar results from Winter.

BTW, I'm a little confused why you like Mariner so much as a coach. I understand Gunners fans love for him period (he was a legend as a player), but as a coach for a United fan he is about the antithesis to Sir Alex.

LOL, I can understand the confusion. I don't necessarily like or dislike Mariner, I'm just willing to give him the benefit of the doubt for the time being and allow him the rest of the season in order to accurately pass judgement. I also think that despite his limited experience as a head coach, he has the appropriate pedigree in MLS in particular to succeed in his new role. Moreover, I think the players have responded well to his approach.

I also think that this organization has beaten many of us down (understandably so) to the point that cynicism has taken a firm hold, and people find it difficult to be patient or objective.

Phil
06-27-2012, 01:40 PM
LOL, I can understand the confusion. I don't necessarily like or dislike Mariner, I'm just willing to give him the benefit of the doubt for the time being and allow him the rest of the season in order to accurately pass judgement. I also think that despite his limited experience as a head coach, he has the appropriate pedigree in MLS in particular to succeed in his new role. Moreover, I think the players have responded well to his approach.

I also think that this organization has beaten many of us down (understandably so) to the point that cynicism has taken a firm hold, and people find it difficult to be patient or objective.

This is becoming more and more apparent.

Rudi
06-27-2012, 01:48 PM
Mariner and Cochrane did not know about $500K we paid for Plata will go against the cap,really?
According to the latest MLSPU salary numbers, Plata isn't costing TFC anywhere near that amount.

Pookie
06-27-2012, 02:06 PM
This is becoming more and more apparent.

Think you have to define "patient" with whom.

For me, I have no patience for TA.

And in expecting immediate results from PM, I think that is fair given his 19 month connection to the team. I also don't think that failure on PM's part for the remainder of this season needs to result in him being fired. Clearly though, changes are needed at TA's level and there is no interest on my part in being patient for that to happen. In fact, my season ticket renewal decision is resting on TA's removal from the org structure and a price decrease. Regardless of what PM does or does not do.

TOBOR !
06-27-2012, 02:32 PM
Game Day = jokes

spark
06-27-2012, 04:56 PM
also think that this organization has beaten many of us down (understandably so) to the point that cynicism has taken a firm hold, and people find it difficult to be patient or objective.

That could be the case some of the time, however, you could also say that there have been pretty clear patterns and mistakes made over the last 5-6 years that appear to not be remedied or learned from. Big mistakes and bad decisions and bad advice that continue to this very day. IMO Mariner is one, as so many things about his arrival to this point has too many similarities to what we've already gone through and at least for me is why there will be no patience. Guilty until proven innocent at this point! Haha!