PDA

View Full Version : Pre/In/Post Game: TFC 2 - NER 2



Pages : [1] 2

ensco
06-22-2012, 07:38 AM
The big news is, the weather forecast looks fantastic.

Will Mariner stick with the diamond?
Will the "Houston 3" be available?

DaBandit
06-22-2012, 07:39 AM
Will we have more than three guys on the bench?

Either way 2-1 TFC

Fort York Redcoat
06-22-2012, 07:45 AM
When will the first sub happen?

I think a win is in order.

I like DaBandits prediction 2-1 TFC as well

ensco
06-22-2012, 07:52 AM
The Revs lost to something called the Harrisburg City Islanders in the US Open Cup a couple of weeks back.

I suggest several rousing renditions of "You're worse than Harrisburg!" (sung to Donna e Mobile)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8UerodV2n0

Derko
06-22-2012, 08:29 AM
Just a little more tactical at the back and I think this will be a good win, another 3 goal performance would be exciting, I like the attacking football. Has Ian Holloway now become TFC's manager

KGH
06-22-2012, 08:43 AM
The Revs lost to something called the Harrisburg City Islanders in the US Open Cup a couple of weeks back.

I suggest several rousing renditions of "You're worse than Harrisburg!" (sung to Donna e Mobile)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8UerodV2n0

I don't think we should be calling out any team on their performances this year. Thats a whole lotta pot calling the kettle black.

Yohan
06-22-2012, 09:11 AM
I don't think we should be calling out any team on their performances this year. Thats a whole lotta pot calling the kettle black.
Ya but at least we havent lost to an usl team thos season

ManUtd4ever
06-22-2012, 09:16 AM
I expect our form to continue to improve with every outing as the players become more comfortable with Mariner's tactical approach.



-----------------Kocic-----------------

Hall---Eckersley-----Henry---Morgan

-----------------Frings-----------------

Dunfield--------------------DeGuzman

------------------Avila------------------

------Koevermans-------Johnson------


Subs: Lambe, Plata, Williams, Burgos, ???

DaBandit
06-22-2012, 11:08 AM
Ya but at least we havent lost to an usl team thos season

thats cuz we have been fortunate enough not to have had to play one as of yet.. lol

T-boy
06-22-2012, 11:17 AM
The Revs had the midweek off while TFC sweat it out in Houston, so hopefully the players aren't too drained after their travels. I'm optimistic for points in this one, but it all depends on how the players feel after Wednesday.

ensco
06-22-2012, 11:28 AM
I don't think we should be calling out any team on their performances this year. Thats a whole lotta pot calling the kettle black.

I'm all about seeing some football in the nice weather, and having a few laughs. Which definitely includes taunting the opponent!

KGH
06-22-2012, 12:59 PM
If Emory is healthy could we rock:

-----------------Kocic-----------------

Ecks-------Emory-----Henry---Morgan

-----------------Frings-----------------

Hall-------------------------DeGuzman

------------------Avila------------------

------Koevermans-------Johnson------

CoachGT
06-22-2012, 01:55 PM
Time for a positive result in front of the home fans. They need to play well, not for us, but for themsleves.

Personally, I still hope Harden makes an appearance on the backline. He played well during the early part of the season. He's probably lost most of that form by now, but we need something to shake up the backline.

KGH
06-22-2012, 02:25 PM
OK. There are 22 games remaining in the season. 11 at Home 11 on the road. We need to turn this ship around and start to get hot at home. Back to the Fortress days:

7-0-4 at home = 25 points at home

3-3-5 on the road = 14 points on the road

Finish with a 11-13-10 record and 43 points. Almost a respectable finish to a crappy season.

tfcfan2011
06-22-2012, 03:42 PM
stadium question: what are the current rules for bringing in a 2 stick? as in, what time does one have to enter? thanks in advance couldnt find the info anywhere

Fort York Redcoat
06-22-2012, 04:17 PM
No time limit for 2stix but you need to go in gate 4. The South entrance.

tfcfan2011
06-22-2012, 04:58 PM
No time limit for 2stix but you need to go in gate 4. The South entrance.

awesome, thanks for the help!

denime
06-22-2012, 05:05 PM
No time limit for 2stix but you need to go in gate 4:facepalm:. The South entrance.

You mean GATE 3B ,GATE 4 is west side.


And you call yourself a TFC Supporter:shocked:


:drinking:

Fort York Redcoat
06-22-2012, 11:18 PM
Right. 3B. I got the South entrance part. Hey I just get stuff in the stadium. No time for gate counting.:)

jloome
06-23-2012, 12:28 AM
Dunno, with the exception of his preference for Dunfield, I rather think Mariner's having a positive effect. 2-1 TFC maybe?

MLS editors are nearly all picking TFC.

Oldtimer
06-23-2012, 06:50 AM
Personally, I still hope Harden makes an appearance on the backline. He played well during the early part of the season. He's probably lost most of that form by now, but we need something to shake up the backline.

One of the few times I disagree with you. I hope Harden is firmly nailed to the bench, nails to be removed only in case of injury forcing him to be played. I like the guy, has great character, is a decent backup, but should not be starting. Harden is not the solution to TFC's woeful defense.

ManUtd4ever
06-23-2012, 07:39 AM
I am actually excited about heading down to BMO today for the first time in quite a while.

After a busy week, I hope the boys have enough left in the tank to earn a victory in front of the hometown faithful.

Brookingisking
06-23-2012, 09:49 AM
need 1 ticket ... anyopne selling

bigredone
06-23-2012, 04:19 PM
Gettin' paid while the stream is here. Free A/C, but no beer.
Watchin' the game while on the payroll, all I need is
GOAL GOAL GOAL!!!!!
:scarf:

OgtheDim
06-23-2012, 04:21 PM
Plata not even on the bench while Silva is.

mowe
06-23-2012, 04:21 PM
(https://twitter.com/#%21/torontofc) #TorontoFC (https://twitter.com/#%21/search/%23TorontoFC) XI: Kocic; Hall, Eckersley, Henry, Morgan; Dunfield, Frings, Avila, de Guzman; Koevermans, Johnson

Luanda
06-23-2012, 04:23 PM
http://atdhenet.tv/ shows there will be a stream/

Any others, in case...

dantdot
06-23-2012, 04:28 PM
http://www.thefirstrow.eu/watch/127714/1/watch-toronto-fc-vs-new-england-revolution.html

SirBobSaget
06-23-2012, 04:33 PM
#TorontoFC (https://twitter.com/#%21/search/%23TorontoFC) XI: Kocic; Hall, Eckersley, Henry, Morgan; Dunfield, Frings, Avila, de Guzman; Koevermans, Johnson

Bench
Williams
Lambe
Stinson
Emory
Roberts
Silva
Maund

Notable absences Plata, Aceval, Soolsma.

Plata isn't mentioned in injury list, there were rumours bouncing around earlier this week about a transfer back to Quito ...

dantdot
06-23-2012, 04:41 PM
Koev's is on fire!

bigredone
06-23-2012, 04:45 PM
YEEEAAH DONKEY KONG--Should have been called or Oranje

OgtheDim
06-23-2012, 04:49 PM
Who is that awful colour guy on Gol?

Soccerpro
06-23-2012, 04:58 PM
Thomas Rongen - TFC director is on the Gol TFC broadcast, which is strange. He doesn't know how to lower his voice. He always yells his words.

Doneil with a giveaway which nearly results in a Revs goal.

iy12l
06-23-2012, 05:20 PM
We keep hoofing the ball, this is getting boring to watch.

Richard
06-23-2012, 05:20 PM
Not a bad Goal, good counter attack.

iy12l
06-23-2012, 05:20 PM
Goal 2-0

OgtheDim
06-23-2012, 05:23 PM
Nobody tracking him - 2 defenders doing zonal marking but nobody watches for the run to the middle.

Nice to see that on the other side for once.

AlanO
06-23-2012, 05:24 PM
Both goals were nice. Great crossing from Morgan.

On the second - wonder if that was a dummy by Koev, or if he just missed it by accident? Either way, Johnson finished it off nicely.

dantdot
06-23-2012, 05:24 PM
Super Kocic?

AlanO
06-23-2012, 05:25 PM
Great reaction save from Kocic

Soccerpro
06-23-2012, 05:26 PM
Nice half by TFC. Obvious to see that the Revs suck. We may be up 2-0, but it could easily be 2-2. They hit the crossbar and had an open header that Kocic saved just before half.
This game doesn't make me feel any better about the team when we have to play against a team that doesn't suck.

Richard
06-23-2012, 05:26 PM
Is Ecks playing CB again? Maybe we should stick him there permanently.

iy12l
06-23-2012, 05:27 PM
Morgan made 2 assists

OgtheDim
06-23-2012, 05:35 PM
Is Ecks playing CB again? Maybe we should stick him there permanently.

He steps up well but gets caught 1 out of 3 times doing that.

I'm trying to figure out what Dunfield is doing.

iy12l
06-23-2012, 05:39 PM
Why is Dunfield playing on the wing? Might as well put Plata, Lambe, or Sooslma there.

Redcoe15
06-23-2012, 05:40 PM
Like what I see so far. Morgan's two crosses that lead to goals by Danny K. and RJ were nice. Two goal lead at the half. Now, as Morgan stated, if they can learn from their mistakes in Houston this past Wednesday, three points is in hand. COME ON YOU REDS!

One more thing, ANSELMI OUT!!!

PopePouri
06-23-2012, 05:43 PM
#nastyleftback

Dub Narcotic
06-23-2012, 05:44 PM
Wish TFC could hold possession better.

DoubleUp
06-23-2012, 05:48 PM
Why is Dunfield playing on the wing? Might as well put Plata, Lambe, or Sooslma there.

He is playing RM, not on the wing.

dantdot
06-23-2012, 05:55 PM
Silva in for Avila

Dub Narcotic
06-23-2012, 06:04 PM
I don't want to see Frings back next year. He's too slow and people just run around him in that deep holding role, plus he's on way too much money and that valuable DP slot.

DaBandit
06-23-2012, 06:06 PM
So we took frings out and left dunfield in? Hmmm, not the move I would have made

DoubleUp
06-23-2012, 06:06 PM
I don't want to see Frings back next year. He's too slow and people just run around him in that deep holding role, plus he's on way too much money and that valuable DP slot.

He's def having a problem as the anchor.

iy12l
06-23-2012, 06:06 PM
Frings is more effective in a 4-3-3 or 4-5-1

iy12l
06-23-2012, 06:07 PM
ffs its gonna be 2-2

Dub Narcotic
06-23-2012, 06:10 PM
Damn Kocic is playing well.

dantdot
06-23-2012, 06:11 PM
All I am saying is...close a game.

Dub Narcotic
06-23-2012, 06:11 PM
Kocic is all man.

DoubleUp
06-23-2012, 06:11 PM
I disagree! I would have kept the backline the same and sit emory in front of them.

mowe
06-23-2012, 06:11 PM
I don't want to see Frings back next year. He's too slow and people just run around him in that deep holding role, plus he's on way too much money and that valuable DP slot.

I agree. But since he's signed here through 2013 I just hope we get a better player than Dunfield to play as one of the defensive midfielders. Those two playing together means our midfield is just way too slow.

Dub Narcotic
06-23-2012, 06:12 PM
Need some new midfield legs on here. Is Stinson still in professional soccer? De Guzman has sucked today.

DoubleUp
06-23-2012, 06:14 PM
Need some new midfield legs on here. Is Stinson still in professional soccer? De Guzman has sucked today.

He is also struggling with his new role.

iy12l
06-23-2012, 06:14 PM
TFC is already trying to park the bus at the 77th min

AlanO
06-23-2012, 06:15 PM
Come on, close it out.

OgtheDim
06-23-2012, 06:17 PM
So we now have Dunfield as the only holding midfielder?

AlanO
06-23-2012, 06:20 PM
So we now have Dunfield as the only holding midfielder?
Yeah, this doesn't seem like a good plan..

DaBandit
06-23-2012, 06:20 PM
Really Mariner??? We are trying to protect a lead and you take Frings off, then JDG for Lambe?? Game management has been horrible..

Yes Frings is not the same player he was, but he calm on the ball and reads the game better then anyone on this team. He also can pass the ball. And some here are calling for Stinson, come on...

iy12l
06-23-2012, 06:21 PM
Wow were not even trying to attack... this is why we keep losing, we sit on a 1-0 lead during the 60th min

DaBandit
06-23-2012, 06:22 PM
Btw, we have been on the back foot since the moment Frings came off..

Dub Narcotic
06-23-2012, 06:23 PM
TFC will probably get some points from this, but it can't be called a particularly convincing performance. The midfield is too old and too slow, the central defence is a fullback and a nineteen year old and only a great Kocic performance and bad NER finishing is keeping the team in this. I like that Johnson/Kovermans duo, and Kocic is great, but a lot of work is still needed.

Soccerpro
06-23-2012, 06:23 PM
Anyone who thought TFC was good because we were up on the crappy Revs 2-0 knows better after watching the 2nd half. You try to take away positives, but we are just garbage.

iy12l
06-23-2012, 06:24 PM
FFS!!! try to attack you dicks!!!

Dkolish3
06-23-2012, 06:24 PM
When did we become so lucky?

AlanO
06-23-2012, 06:27 PM
Win, lose or draw - the entire squad owes Milos a beer.

Soccerpro
06-23-2012, 06:29 PM
There is no question this is the worst team ever. TFC ar elucky to only tie 2-2. We should be down 4 or 5-2.

OgtheDim
06-23-2012, 06:29 PM
:facepalm:

iy12l
06-23-2012, 06:30 PM
FUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

AlanO
06-23-2012, 06:30 PM
Fuck this shit

Batman
06-23-2012, 06:31 PM
the curse of Toronto continues.

DaBandit
06-23-2012, 06:32 PM
Absolutely disgraceful... This is on Mariner and his incompetent subs, and his whole HOOF BALL mentality.. Did we even have 20% possession in the 2nd half?

ryan
06-23-2012, 06:32 PM
Same thing twice in a row. You guys thought Winter was a bad tactician? This is awful. Subbing out JDG for Lambe is a fucking disaster idea. What the fuck is with the hoofball for 10 minutes+? Utterly pathetic.

rowjimi
06-23-2012, 06:32 PM
these goltv announcers are drinking the kool-aid. They are horrible. Tough second half.

OgtheDim
06-23-2012, 06:32 PM
Call Frings slow but he knows what to do with the ball if he gets it and we are trying to close the game out.

Dunfield?

JuliquE
06-23-2012, 06:33 PM
Same thing twice in a row. You guys thought Winter was a bad tactician? This is awful. Subbing out JDG for Lambe is a fucking disaster idea. What the fuck is with the hoofball for 10 minutes+? Utterly pathetic.

Absolutely disgraceful... This is on Mariner and his incompetent subs, and his whole HOOF BALL mentality.. Did we even have 20% possession in the 2nd half?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

leafsman
06-23-2012, 06:34 PM
what a brutal team. why do we keep bring off defensive mids for attackers when defending a lead

Batman
06-23-2012, 06:34 PM
these goltv announcers are drinking the kool-aid. They are horrible. Tough second half.

definitely Rongen with all his predictions that we were destined to win it.. was really bs..
frankly, having a TFC coaching member as a colour guy is a bit suspect too. Would he ever criticize anything?

AlanO
06-23-2012, 06:35 PM
Terrible. It's New England, for crying out loud. Not a difficult team to shut down.

Last 30 minutes were completely amateur. My beer league team could have closed out that game. Emory was hoofing the ball to a white shirt, EVERY FREAKING TIME.

What the hell was Mariner thinking with those subs?

SirBobSaget
06-23-2012, 06:36 PM
Every TFC sub made the Revs more powerful. Mariner slowly replaced a dominant midfield of Avila-DeGuz-FRings with a midfield that should have given up 6 goals but thankfully only let in 2.

rowjimi
06-23-2012, 06:36 PM
holy shite!!!

DaBandit
06-23-2012, 06:36 PM
Sorry but after 3 games with Mariner I have seen enough, this guy is utterly clueless.. Let's take off all the midfield that can put two passes together (Avila, Frings & JDG) and just hoof the ball up the field non stop... I mean look at Spain they hold on to the ball and have so little success.. What a complete Joke!!! Fire everyone!! Rant over

Batman
06-23-2012, 06:37 PM
shots in 2nd half were 6-0 NE... wow

jloome
06-23-2012, 06:37 PM
Good first 45, sad second.

We lack heart. Players who lack work ethic naturally cheat back further defensively as the game progresses; that's not a tactical error, it's the players being unwilling to be caught up the pitch. But you can't pressure unless you stay high on the field.

He should rip them a new one.

OgtheDim
06-23-2012, 06:38 PM
Media loves Mariner. He isn't going anywhere.

All comes down to the same thing:

Anselmi out at the end of this season or we are doomed again.

ryan
06-23-2012, 06:42 PM
I don't think I ever want to see Emory in a red shirt again after that shit. Most of the time he wasn't even pressured, just firing line drives to the bloody feet of Rev's. Good grief.

Soccerpro
06-23-2012, 06:43 PM
There isn't a single thing that isn't wrong with this team right now.

OgtheDim
06-23-2012, 06:44 PM
Can somebody do a bit of research with Plymouth fans to see if Mariner was just as clueless tactics wise and substitutes wise back then?

This is beginning to be a trend.

OgtheDim
06-23-2012, 06:45 PM
There isn't a single thing that isn't wrong with this team right now.

Kocic?

TorontoFC11
06-23-2012, 06:45 PM
Horrible second half for us. We stopped playing after the 70th minute and Mariner's substitution choices sucked!!!

DoubleUp
06-23-2012, 06:46 PM
Didnt pressurize the ball from the top properly when we decide to go defensive. dunfield, frings, and de guzman are struggling with there new roles especially de guzman.

Forwards not closing down/pressurizing properly.

ChrisLav
06-23-2012, 06:47 PM
There isn't a single thing that isn't wrong with this team right now.

I don't know, the ball kids seem pretty stellar right now. And you can't beat the placement of the water bottles along the sidelines.

SirBobSaget
06-23-2012, 06:49 PM
Lets also keep in mind this was a Shalrie Joseph-less Revs team. And they lost their veteran defender Alston in 1st and they had a 17yo starting and they had a CM making his first start after 6 week injury.

Yohan
06-23-2012, 06:53 PM
Lets also keep in mind this was a Shalrie Joseph-less Revs team. And they lost their veteran defender Alston in 1st and they had a 17yo starting and they had a CM making his first start after 6 week injury.
To be fair alston has like 3 yrs in mls and his replacement used to play in bundesliga. Joseph is shadow of himself.

J18
06-23-2012, 06:53 PM
Can somebody do a bit of research with Plymouth fans to see if Mariner was just as clueless tactics wise and substitutes wise back then?

This is beginning to be a trend.

He was out of his depth at Plymouth.

Yohan
06-23-2012, 06:53 PM
Game was like carbon copy of houston game

AlanO
06-23-2012, 06:54 PM
Didnt pressurize the ball from the top properly when we decide to go defensive. dunfield, frings, and de guzman are struggling with there new roles especially de guzman.
Nope. The problems started with the subs, and got worse with each subsequent subtitution.

When TFC had a midfield of JDG-Avila-Frings-Dunfield, things were composed, possession was pretty good, and a number of scoring chances were created.

After the three substitions, the midfield was Hall-Silva-Dunfield-Lambe. (I have no idea where anybody was supposed to be playing. It looked totally disorganized.)

Subbing Avila for Silva? Okay, that's understandable. The other subs were baffling.

Redcoe15
06-23-2012, 06:57 PM
Did they lern from their mistakes? NNNNN NO!

They took out Frings, then dug their heels in. They were playing with fire and then got burned with 30 seconds left in FOUR! EXTRA! FUCKING! MINUTES! I felt sick. I fear this is only going to get worse. FIRE ANSELMI!!!

And Dan Dunleavy and Thomas Rongen are the two worst television commentators in soccer. I wanted to smother Rongen with a pillow so he'd shut the fuck up. Please come back soon Luke Wileman.

TFC USA
06-23-2012, 06:58 PM
I hope you all realize this is still a bad soccer team and that Winter's "wins" did nothing. The organization blows and I would welcome three levels of relegation right now. We aren't MLS quality.

Eastend
06-23-2012, 06:58 PM
Well deserved boos. Unfuckingbelievable.

Dom

v00d00daddy
06-23-2012, 07:02 PM
Perfect example of our garbage tactics.

Attack and get up and then go into a shell and kick the ball away like fucking idiots for the last half hour and pretend like we're capable of absorbing pressure for the better part of a half.

Idiotic.

So much for MLS pragmatism. Lol

Btw...new England were garbage.

We made them look decent.

Richard
06-23-2012, 07:04 PM
I wonder how we would fair in the NASL/USL.

SirBobSaget
06-23-2012, 07:04 PM
If it wasn't for Koevermans coming back into form the last 3 games would have been an even bigger disaster.

OgtheDim
06-23-2012, 07:07 PM
He was out of his depth at Plymouth.

And so the trend continues...

pawlukj
06-23-2012, 07:09 PM
Goal at the 4th minute or so was nice.. great cross.. the following 25-30 minutes was volleyball with legs and some sort of karate or martial arts out there..
Johnson played great he has gained alot of confidence and he should of produced at least another goal or two...
Kocic played amazing made some great stops..
How nice would it be to see Deguzman finally score? (Have i ever seen that?)
Kovermanns is great, its funny to see him run though for some reason

PROS:
Johnson working hard playing great
Kovermann's cashing In
Eckersley great defending
Kocic nice stops

CONS:
Terrible midfield passing selection.. slowed play down on a few occasions when a simple forward pass coudl of produced a break
Frings looked lazy out there
Too much Volleyball with feet


At least the games are funner to watch, and Mariner has made a signifcant change to the team in such a short time.. i think they like playing for him..

TFC!!

DoubleUp
06-23-2012, 07:11 PM
Nope. The problems started with the subs, and got worse with each subsequent subtitution.

When TFC had a midfield of JDG-Avila-Frings-Dunfield, things were composed, possession was pretty good, and a number of scoring chances were created.

After the three substitions, the midfield was Hall-Silva-Dunfield-Lambe. (I have no idea where anybody was supposed to be playing. It looked totally disorganized.)

Subbing Avila for Silva? Okay, that's understandable. The other subs were baffling.

Iam not asking, iam telling! when it comes to the diamond I know what I am talking about! and yes the subs were head scratchers but because we have moved to a new system we dont have subs that can come on do the job the first team is being asked to do.

deguzman,frings and dunfield are technical and experienced but they do not know how to conduct themselves properly in a diamond midfield. Diamond works best with true Box 2 box midfielders playing alongside your anchor not 3dms.

That being said, they looked good because they were the most skilled mids on the pitch not because they were playing there respective roles properly.

Furtado91
06-23-2012, 07:12 PM
my mind still draws a blank as to why we start duncefield. hes useless and just plain sucks at the game. i loved the Anselmi out banner by the way, great start but we have to continue to voice our displeasure.

SirBobSaget
06-23-2012, 07:13 PM
Iam not asking, iam telling! when it comes to the diamond I know what I am talking about! and yes the subs were head scratchers but because we have moved to a new system we dont have subs that can come on do the job the first team is being asked to do.

deguzman,frings and dunfield are technical and experienced but they do not know how to conduct themselves properly in a diamond midfield. Diamond works best with true Box 2 box midfielders playing alongside your anchor not 3dms.

That being said, they looked good because they were the most skilled mids on the pitch not because they were playing there respective roles properly.


Isn't Mariner letting the players dictate the formation? So much for that.

Kooper
06-23-2012, 07:14 PM
Does anyone have any photos of the display at the game??

billyfly
06-23-2012, 07:19 PM
Did anyone not really see when it was 2-0, that somehow, someway, NER would tie if not win it?

OgtheDim
06-23-2012, 07:22 PM
Iam not asking, iam telling! when it comes to the diamond I know what I am talking about! and yes the subs were head scratchers but because we have moved to a new system we dont have subs that can come on do the job the first team is being asked to do.

deguzman,frings and dunfield are technical and experienced but they do not know how to conduct themselves properly in a diamond midfield. Diamond works best with true Box 2 box midfielders playing alongside your anchor not 3dms.

That being said, they looked good because they were the most skilled mids on the pitch not because they were playing there respective roles properly.

Ummm......so the difference between playing a 4-3-3 that certain people couldn't play and this formation is that now even the most experienced guys don't fit?

Who brought in these players again?

And, don't forget, we went defensive and left in two strikers.


Mariner

Out

of

His

depth

DoubleUp
06-23-2012, 07:33 PM
Ummm......so the difference between playing a 4-3-3 that certain people couldn't play and this formation is that now even the most experienced guys don't fit?

Who brought in these players again?

And, don't forget, we went defensive and left in two strikers.


Mariner

Out

of

His

depth


I am not supporting Mariner, I am just stating what we is not going our way in the diamond mainly because our midfielders on the defensive end dont no where to be yet. De guzman is the worse of the 3, dunfield is playing the role fairly well because of his grit which deguzman doesnt have. Frings is pushing up to much for his role and is getting caught behind the play because of it. subs killed us but better organization defensively from our mids and we walk away comfortable.

Oh and like somebody else said far to much volley ball especially in the attacking third, bring the ball out of the air so you can possess it.

boozilla
06-23-2012, 07:33 PM
Even the 10 year old ball girl knew it was coming. Hard to get too upset.
At this point even a win would feel like a loss.

ryan
06-23-2012, 07:36 PM
De Guzman...worse than Dunfield? That's why both the Houston and NE matches turned drastically upon his sub out of the match am i right?

DoubleUp
06-23-2012, 07:40 PM
De Guzman...worse than Dunfield? That's why both the Houston and NE matches turned drastically upon his sub out of the match am i right?

I know that people dont like dunfield but in the new role he is out playing de guzman especially in the defensive phase of the position, because he is more of a box 2 box mid than julian its just julian has more ability. Put it this way, if terry had julians ability he would still be in europe because he reads the game better.

ryan
06-23-2012, 07:42 PM
Have another drink.

v00d00daddy
06-23-2012, 07:51 PM
I know that people dont like dunfield but in the new role he is out playing de guzman especially in the defensive phase of the position, because he is more of a box 2 box mid than julian its just julian has more ability. Put it this way, if terry had julians ability he would still be in europe because he reads the game better.

I couldn't disagree more.

There was a play in the second half where we put a ball into the box and it was cleared to space and a NE
Player was on the ball. Dunfield had the opportunity to close him down and force him to move the ball.

What did he do?

Back peddle all the way into his own 18 and never engaged the ball carrier who walked (literally walked) the ball 40 yards upfield and put a dangerous ball into the box.

His sense of the game is abysmal. He's lucky he gets paid to play. He's fucking terrible and I feel bad saying that cause he works hard and means well.

He should never ever play.

ensco
06-23-2012, 07:52 PM
We increased our season point total 67% in 3 days.

Not bad!!

TorontoGooner
06-23-2012, 08:04 PM
Can somebody do a bit of research with Plymouth fans to see if Mariner was just as clueless tactics wise and substitutes wise back then?

This is beginning to be a trend.

They really didn't like him. Went down there for a game when he was running the show and there was a lot of discontent from the locals. The difference is, the fans there got off their arses and did something instead about it (like forcing him out). I have an Argyle mate who laughed hysterically when I told him Mariner was in charge. "You lot over there really must be shit", he said

He's tactically naive and makes poor decisions, as today so evidently showed

pawlukj
06-23-2012, 08:05 PM
Mariner just needs to really get these guys in better form with some rigourous training regiment

ManUtd4ever
06-23-2012, 08:06 PM
On a positive note, TFC has managed put itself in a position to win the last 2 games, which was an extreme rarity earlier this season. I think that demonstrating the ability to build a lead is a sign of improvement in of itself.

Unfortunately, squandering 2 goal leads in back to back games is also a clear indication that Mariner needs to adjust his approach to tactical adjustments and substitutions late in games.

Hopefully, Mariner and the boys will get over the hump and learn how to close out games moving forward.

And yeah, watching these last few games definitely feels like 2009 again, for better or worse.

Pookie
06-23-2012, 08:14 PM
Can we all agree that "hoof it out" means "it is coming back" ? To go from watching Spain defend a lead by keeping possession to that shit-show was ridiculous.

Youngest backline in the league... yep. Nice to use that as an excuse when you helped build it. And if you didn't have a hand in building it, what the hell we you collecting a paycheck for?

Under Winter 2.1 goals against per game. Under Mariner 2.3

Roster mis-management, lead by ineffective managers is the reason this team is where they are.

Notes outside of the game itself:

Rongren on the color commentary is more than deficient. Trying to tell me what I am seeing isn't what I'm seeing. Praising TFC's back line for be "impenetrable" while I am watching Kocic (and a post) bail them out time and time again. Not sure what the possession was in the 2nd half but I'd be surprised if it was over 30%.

MLSE continuing to offer its games on GolTV is an absolute fail. Abandon the idea of a soccer channel and get the games on the network of your owners... you know, like Montreal and Vancouver have done.

Ajax TFC
06-23-2012, 08:17 PM
I couldn't disagree more.

There was a play in the second half where we put a ball into the box and it was cleared to space and a NE
Player was on the ball. Dunfield had the opportunity to close him down and force him to move the ball.

What did he do?

Back peddle all the way into his own 18 and never engaged the ball carrier who walked (literally walked) the ball 40 yards upfield and put a dangerous ball into the box.

His sense of the game is abysmal. He's lucky he gets paid to play. He's fucking terrible and I feel bad saying that cause he works hard and means well.

He should never ever play.
He does that a lot. It's why I've always been confused when people rave about his work rate. He stays out of his opponents' way and points to the spot where he should be and expecting someone who's actually where they should be to move into that spot. He does close players down, but it's usually only when he's behind them and it usually results in him plowing through from behind

tfc2008
06-23-2012, 08:23 PM
WINTER gone SOCCER gone

tfc2008
06-23-2012, 08:28 PM
Worst team in the leauge steal a point from new england shame shame shame bytheway maybe we have to buy a ticket for frings then he can go back home,he fill up his bank account and nothing more in Toronto.

DoubleUp
06-23-2012, 08:29 PM
I couldn't disagree more.

There was a play in the second half where we put a ball into the box and it was cleared to space and a NE
Player was on the ball. Dunfield had the opportunity to close him down and force him to move the ball.

What did he do?

His sense of the game is abysmal. He's lucky he gets paid to play. He's fucking terrible and I feel bad saying that cause he works hard and means well.

He should never ever play.




Watch the game over and watch how terry spreads the ball around, he knows what he is doing. But again 3dms is not what this system is about.

Yohan
06-23-2012, 08:36 PM
3 games in 7 days really took its toll. Not the only excuse but a factor. Hoofball is result of fatigue, lack of confidence and tactical naivety.

I could understand frings and jdg subs as they didnt have a good game.

ryan
06-23-2012, 08:42 PM
Watch the game over and watch how terry spreads the ball around, he knows what he is doing. But again 3dms is not what this system is about.

Chalkboard doesn't really back that up.

DoubleUp
06-23-2012, 08:55 PM
Chalkboard doesn't really back that up.




What does that mean???

DOMIN8R
06-23-2012, 08:58 PM
I'll have more to post tomorrow.

But my initital impressions aren't pretty. I'm angry at the decision makers who think that these tactics are going to make us a winning team. The tactics were atrocious. Our goals came from players knowing each other's movements better and not from the right formations and executing insightful tactics. Ryan, Koevs, et all have gelled enough to know how to anticipate each others movements. Twice. And now - Mariner will take credit for that?

We couldn't sew 6-8 passes together. Opposition pressure = TFC hoof ball. This was note a pleasant game to watch. The joke in my section, once the second half started, was that the team was playing for a tie. They were talking about TFC.

The tactics were either all wrong or the coaching directions weren't being followed. Either way, Mariner has some serious work to do.

ryan
06-23-2012, 09:06 PM
What does that mean???

Chalkboard is a feature on MLS website, showing the player heatmaps, passes, fouls, etc.

DaBandit
06-23-2012, 09:06 PM
Watch the game over and watch how terry spreads the ball around, he knows what he is doing. But again 3dms is not what this system is about.

What?? Spread the ball?? This guy can not make a pass if his life depended on it, he maybe the worst ball distributor TFC has ever had.. The only time he seems to find a player with a pass is when he plays it back.. His work ethic and desire is there he's just not skilled enough. Yet some how under mariner he plays 90 mins game in and game out, this tells me everything I need to know about mariner..

TheEdge
06-23-2012, 09:08 PM
Speaking of Kocic, some idiot threw a beer in his crease in his crease after the 2nd goal. Totally classless. Kocic was pissed off.

TorontoGooner
06-23-2012, 09:09 PM
Terry Dunfield is one of the worst professional football players I have ever seen, without a shred of over exaggeration. Bear in mind, as an Arsenal season ticket holder in the early 2000s I watched Igor Steponovs week in, week out.

He's slow, can't pass to feet and has absolutely no creativity on the ball. Plus if watch a number of goals against us this year, they all start with him casually giving the ball away. I appreciate this is a poor league, but someone who is paid to play football for a living must be able to consistently pass the ball to feet from twelve yards away.

tiberius
06-23-2012, 09:11 PM
Horrible second half for us. We stopped playing after the 70th minute and Mariner's substitution choices sucked!!!

Mariner looks like an idiot - takes our captain out - what a move - from there... downhill. Winter made some unusual subs, but taking Frings out was idiocy. Avila out? Julian B. Guzman? What the fuck is Mariner doing - arguably his three best players - what a fuckin bonehead. I cannot explain Mariner's mistakes... sorry... TAKE FUCKING DUNFIELD OUT - now that would be a substitution. Winter was not great - but this is sad....:facepalm:

TorontoGooner
06-23-2012, 09:18 PM
Mariner looks like an idiot - takes our captain out - what a move - from there... downhill. Winter made some unusual subs, but taking Frings out was idiocy. Avila out? Julian B. Guzman? What the fuck is Mariner doing - arguably his three best players - what a fuckin bonehead. I cannot explain Mariner's mistakes... sorry... TAKE FUCKING DUNFIELD OUT - now that would be a substitution. Winter was not great - but this is sad....:facepalm:

Agreed!!

__wowza
06-23-2012, 09:33 PM
Mariner looks like an idiot - takes our captain out - what a move - from there... downhill. Winter made some unusual subs, but taking Frings out was idiocy. Avila out? Julian B. Guzman? What the fuck is Mariner doing - arguably his three best players - what a fuckin bonehead. I cannot explain Mariner's mistakes... sorry... TAKE FUCKING DUNFIELD OUT - now that would be a substitution. Winter was not great - but this is sad....:facepalm:

yeah, you'll be hard up to find someone who doesn't agree with this.

v00d00daddy
06-23-2012, 09:34 PM
Oh look...montreal just beat Houston 4-2.

I'm sure we softened them up for Montreal. Lol

I wonder what portion of this game mariner will call fantastic or sensational.

Good thing we changed coaches and playing style in order to get better results.

I was so happy in the first half at bmo. 10 minutes into the 2nd half I said to a buddy...:

"we can't play like this. We're asking them to score on us"

Never did I think we'd concede twice.

Turns out we're lucky we didn't concede three.

Fuck this team.

wesvahr
06-23-2012, 09:39 PM
I must say TFC did slightly better than I expected. I was at the game with my dad and turned to him in the 70th minute and told him NE would tie it in the 87th (exactly when they hit the post). So TFC was able to hold on for an amazing 7 more minutes.

I would have to say that was the worst game that I have attended yet this year. Like was mentioned above both goals were scored off of our two strikers gelling and receiving decent crosses from Morgan against the run of play.

Our formation was useless and terrible on the eye. I sit in 114 and even with a 2-0 lead most of our section was dis-interested in the game being played in front of them.

Passes were terrible, marking on defense was even worse and kicking back to the Rev's defenders at half will not get you anywhere.

Not impressed with Marnier at all and already long for the days of Winter.

Rudy
06-23-2012, 09:42 PM
Did they lern from their mistakes? NNNNN NO!

They took out Frings, then dug their heels in. They were playing with fire and then got burned with 30 seconds left in FOUR! EXTRA! FUCKING! MINUTES! I felt sick. I fear this is only going to get worse. FIRE ANSELMI!!!

And Dan Dunleavy and Thomas Rongen are the two worst television commentators in soccer. I wanted to smother Rongen with a pillow so he'd shut the fuck up. Please come back soon Luke Wileman.

what on earth was mariner thinking sub'ing his key players with 25min left??.??. how many times are we going to allow goals in extra time??.?? have we not learned time after time after time?.?.?? what a sick fucking feeling when u know and predict that there will a goal in extra time. have they not learned that it's now 93rd minute, hold the ball, pass around, and if u cant line up all 11 along the goal line to avoid a disaster in the 94th minutes??.?.

what the f was mariner thinking?.?.? 25 f'n minutes left, and lets worry about resting players for wednesdays game. verybfucking brilliant.

T-boy
06-23-2012, 09:44 PM
My 10 cents about the game.

The first half TFC did ok, good to go in at the break with the lead. I thought RJ and DK looked VERY good and dangerous going forward and looked like a proper striker pairing that we have been missing in the 4-3-3 formation. TFC kept the ball well and looked to play football, not much long ball going on. Excellent crosses for the goals.

The second half started pretty well. Excellent run by Morgan at the start. But then it went completely wrong. It looked, to me, like a lot of the players were completely out of gas by the 60th minute. I think Mariner's subs were dictated by how the players were looking - Frings, and JDG looked liked they were totally exhausted. JDG in particular started kicking the ball all over the place, couldn't put a pass together to save his life after the 60th minute! I don't blame Mariner for keeping Dunfield on, as he did look like he had more legs than the other two. I personally would have put Plata on in place of JDG, and got the little guy to run and at least keep the NE backline on their toes. Stinson would have also been a better sub than Lambe.

So it really WAS a game of two halves, as the old adage goes. Good first half from TFC, poor second half.

Mind you, that's better than games earlier in the season, where it was two poor halves! So, I'll give Mariner the benefit of the doubt still right now.

TFC are severaly missing somebody over the age of 23 in defence! An old head would calm those young boys down in moments like the second half. Ecks, Henry, Morgan, Hall, and then Emory all took it in turns to bash the ball to nobody in the second half. They weren't doing in the first half, they were calmly playing the ball out of defence to a red shirt. The second half they all had a bit of a nightmare!

First job fo Mariner come July 1st is to find an experience CB from somewhere.....anywhere!!!!

T-boy
06-23-2012, 09:49 PM
what on earth was mariner thinking sub'ing his key players with 25min left??.??. how many times are we going to allow goals in extra time??.?? have we not learned time after time after time?.?.?? what a sick fucking feeling when u know and predict that there will a goal in extra time. have they not learned that it's now 93rd minute, hold the ball, pass around, and if u cant line up all 11 along the goal line to avoid a disaster in the 94th minutes??.?.

what the f was mariner thinking?.?.? 25 f'n minutes left, and lets worry about resting players for wednesdays game. verybfucking brilliant.

It looked like Frings and JDG were going to die around the 20 minute mark! The last play Frings had was when he was through on goal...he didn't even get to touch the ball and missed it completely - he looked gassed as hell! And JDG was having a horrible second half, couldn't hardly kick the ball in any direction! I don't blame Mariner for taking them out at this stage. But it showed that we are totally lacking in depth that we don't have a replacement for either that isn't a 20 year old boy on the bench!

T-boy
06-23-2012, 09:51 PM
I must say TFC did slightly better than I expected. I was at the game with my dad and turned to him in the 70th minute and told him NE would tie it in the 87th (exactly when they hit the post). So TFC was able to hold on for an amazing 7 more minutes.

I would have to say that was the worst game that I have attended yet this year. Like was mentioned above both goals were scored off of our two strikers gelling and receiving decent crosses from Morgan against the run of play.

Our formation was useless and terrible on the eye. I sit in 114 and even with a 2-0 lead most of our section was dis-interested in the game being played in front of them.

Passes were terrible, marking on defense was even worse and kicking back to the Rev's defenders at half will not get you anywhere.

Not impressed with Marnier at all and already long for the days of Winter.

So you long for the days where we had no hope of winning games, and had poor defence AND attack?

At least we are scoring goals now and the games are exciting! I can't complain about that!

Now we just have to change the league rules and make games 45 minute long! :p

Rudy
06-23-2012, 09:51 PM
i know people dont like hearing this, buy Frings cant shoot, cant play, cant run. i do mot see value.
why wasnt Plata on the line up???.? silva useless.
kocic, if it wasnt for him, NER wud have another 3 goals easy.

v00d00daddy
06-23-2012, 09:55 PM
My 10 cents about the game.

The first half TFC did ok, good to go in at the break with the lead. I thought RJ and DK looked VERY good and dangerous going forward and looked like a proper striker pairing that we have been missing in the 4-3-3 formation. TFC kept the ball well and looked to play football, not much long ball going on. Excellent crosses for the goals.

The second half started pretty well. Excellent run by Morgan at the start. But then it went completely wrong. It looked, to me, like a lot of the players were completely out of gas by the 60th minute. I think Mariner's subs were dictated by how the players were looking - Frings, and JDG looked liked they were totally exhausted. JDG in particular started kicking the ball all over the place, couldn't put a pass together to save his life after the 60th minute! I don't blame Mariner for keeping Dunfield on, as he did look like he had more legs than the other two. I personally would have put Plata on in place of JDG, and got the little guy to run and at least keep the NE backline on their toes. Stinson would have also been a better sub than Lambe.

So it really WAS a game of two halves, as the old adage goes. Good first half from TFC, poor second half.

Mind you, that's better than games earlier in the season, where it was two poor halves! So, I'll give Mariner the benefit of the doubt still right now.

TFC are severaly missing somebody over the age of 23 in defence! An old head would calm those young boys down in moments like the second half. Ecks, Henry, Morgan, Hall, and then Emory all took it in turns to bash the ball to nobody in the second half. They weren't doing in the first half, they were calmly playing the ball out of defence to a red shirt. The second half they all had a bit of a nightmare!

First job fo Mariner come July 1st is to find an experience CB from somewhere.....anywhere!!!!

Sorry but it wouldn't matter if we got John terry to play cb.

We're not good enough to relinquish possession over and over again for 30 minutes straight and not concede goals. Theres nothing that a new cb would fix when that's our game plan.

When your team decides that proper defending of a lead is kicking the ball as far away, back to the other team...well your team is fucked.

There's nothing one player can do to undo the other 9 players idiocy and encouragement of such idiocy by an idiotic coach.

tfc2008
06-23-2012, 09:57 PM
i know people dont like hearing this, buy Frings cant shoot, cant play, cant run. i do mot see value.
why wasnt Plata on the line up???.? silva useless.
kocic, if it wasnt for him, NER wud have another 3 goals easy.

Rudy iam happy to here this it is 200% true and i dont understand that people who typ here everyday nonsens dont she this.

spark
06-23-2012, 10:04 PM
^ I'm no detective but something in my gut is saying you two are the same person

T-boy
06-23-2012, 10:06 PM
i know people dont like hearing this, buy Frings cant shoot, cant play, cant run. i do mot see value.
why wasnt Plata on the line up???.? silva useless.
kocic, if it wasnt for him, NER wud have another 3 goals easy.

Apparently Plata did something to his hamstring in training yesterday. I didn't actually realise he wasn't on the bench today until now.

T-boy
06-23-2012, 10:09 PM
Sorry but it wouldn't matter if we got John terry to play cb.

We're not good enough to relinquish possession over and over again for 30 minutes straight and not concede goals. Theres nothing that a new cb would fix when that's our game plan.

When your team decides that proper defending of a lead is kicking the ball as far away, back to the other team...well your team is fucked.

There's nothing one player can do to undo the other 9 players idiocy and encouragement of such idiocy by an idiotic coach.


I think having a couple of experienced centre backs would make a massive difference actually.

NE changed their shape at the start of the second half, and TFC just couldn't cope with their extra attacker. They closed down our defense quickly and then the young and experienced backline just panicked and started kicking in any direction. It didn't look like it was the official "game plan" to do that, and Mariner pretty much says so in the post match interview. Young defenders just played naively in the second half while the aging midfield was totally out of gas. Neither helped the other out at all in the second half.

TOBOR !
06-23-2012, 10:10 PM
Meh. Can't be bothered to comment.

T-boy
06-23-2012, 10:11 PM
The Revs had the midweek off while TFC sweat it out in Houston, so hopefully the players aren't too drained after their travels. I'm optimistic for points in this one, but it all depends on how the players feel after Wednesday.

I'm going to reply to my own pre game post. And I was right, TFC were definitely gassed and NE had the legs in the second half when TFC were out on their feet.

And it won't get any easier for TFC right now with yet another midweek game coming up!

DoubleUp
06-23-2012, 10:15 PM
What?? Spread the ball?? This guy can not make a pass if his life depended on it, he maybe the worst ball distributor TFC has ever had.. The only time he seems to find a player with a pass is when he plays it back.. His work ethic and desire is there he's just not skilled enough. Yet some how under mariner he plays 90 mins game in and game out, this tells me everything I need to know about mariner..

Its clear Dumping on Dunfield is the cool thing around here. My intial argument is that dunfield in this system comprehends his role more accurately than de guzman, now I find myself defending a player I dont even really like.

v00d00daddy
06-23-2012, 10:16 PM
I think having a couple of experienced centre backs would make a massive difference actually.

NE changed their shape at the start of the second half, and TFC just couldn't cope with their extra attacker. They closed down our defense quickly and then the young and experienced backline just panicked and started kicking in any direction. It didn't look like it was the official "game plan" to do that, and Mariner pretty much says so in the post match interview. Young defenders just played naively in the second half while the aging midfield was totally out of gas. Neither helped the other out at all in the second half.

Maybe but under winter we had the same young naive defenders and the same midfielders (except frings was hurt for a stretch and Winter didn't have him at his disposal) AND earlier in the season they didn't have an in form Koevermans scoring every game but....

You weren't hearing those excuses then. They were horseshit to you then.

So tell me...why does mariner get a pass now....despite having the same team (if not more with Koev in form) and still getting the same ludicrous results?

I'm genuinely interested to hear you defend Mariners choices.

Btw...you forgive Mariner saying that it wasn't his actual "game plan" to have the players kick the ball away to nobody and excuse him for that.

But you know, for a fact, that Winter never wanted his players to kick the ball away aimlessly cause he said so explicitly in post game interviews.

But again, you had no patience for those excuses then.

Why now?

SirBobSaget
06-23-2012, 10:30 PM
I'm going to reply to my own pre game post. And I was right, TFC were definitely gassed and NE had the legs in the second half when TFC were out on their feet.

And it won't get any easier for TFC right now with yet another midweek game coming up!

TFC is getting gassed at half because of they're new kick + run, no possession style. They spend the first 45 mins going all out chasing down wayward long balls and trying to take the ball away from the other teams feet. Sure its getting them some goals in first half but theyre toast for the 2nd.

Just One Man
06-23-2012, 10:31 PM
This is bullshit! Bring back the guy who lost every game!

Initial B
06-23-2012, 10:34 PM
This is depressing. Perhaps Mariner is making sure we get first pick in the draft next year?

ensco
06-23-2012, 10:48 PM
Meh. Can't be bothered to comment.

I liked it better when NE had the 2-0 lead, and we tied the game late.

Ajax TFC
06-23-2012, 10:55 PM
subbing three of four midfielders including a straight swap at AM despite Avila not being out of gas, and leaving in both strikers who were completely gassed already early in the second, that's what bugs me. Koevermans and Johnson ran around pressuring NE's defense, then dropped deep into the midfield and defense when NE was on the attack all first half. That was our first line of defense in that half and it worked. In the second half we completely lost that defensive line because they were tired out and neither of them were subbed.

Also, does it seem kind of unwise to anyone else to play all your depth at one position at the same time? Right now we have zero defensive midfield depth because all our DMs get played at the same time.

Ajax TFC
06-23-2012, 10:58 PM
TFC is getting gassed at half because of they're new kick + run, no possession style. They spend the first 45 mins going all out chasing down wayward long balls and trying to take the ball away from the other teams feet. Sure its getting them some goals in first half but theyre toast for the 2nd.
^this
They basically work their asses off to get the ball and then kick it to the other team so they can start again

Pookie
06-23-2012, 11:19 PM
^this
They basically work their asses off to get the ball and then kick it to the other team so they can start again

Not to worry. Jim Brennan has now been on board with the Backline for a month now. I'm sure things will improve in no time.

Ajax TFC
06-23-2012, 11:26 PM
^You're being sarcastic right? (it's hard to tell in writing)

DaBandit
06-23-2012, 11:26 PM
Its clear Dumping on Dunfield is the cool thing around here. My intial argument is that dunfield in this system comprehends his role more accurately than de guzman, now I find myself defending a player I dont even really like.

Lol... Ya dumping on him is the cool thing to do, but personally I like dunfield to an extent. I think he's a decent guy coming off the bench to try and help close out a game. But i certainly think JDG is a better player all around including defensively.. Wow, now you have me defending a player that I don't really like.. Lol

ensco
06-23-2012, 11:39 PM
Can't be bothered to post detail about it now, but how about the Paul Mariner show? His act on the touch line is unbelievable.

ensco
06-23-2012, 11:40 PM
Also, what the hell is the ridiculous colour of Reis' uniform? I couldn't concentrate because of that thing.

spark
06-23-2012, 11:54 PM
I liked it better when NE had the 2-0 lead, and we tied the game late.

And were scoring goals from 50 yards!!

Greatest Ripoff
06-24-2012, 12:12 AM
Why was De Guzman (holding midfielder) replaced by Lambe (winger and one of Mariner's boys) when we were trying to protect the lead? Why wouldn't he bring Stinson on?

And if the players are so tired form playing so many games on the road, then why no use some of the other players on the roster? Look at the job Soolsma did in closing out some of the games before Winter was fired. Is he getting the shaft because he is a Winter player? It can't be the arrest because Silva got to play today.

Auzzy
06-24-2012, 12:38 AM
Well, I hope that Mariner buys each lad a beer for each time they boot the ball looooooonnnng. Guys need to be rewarded for executing his genius tactics perfectly.

Total garbage. Tripe. Bullshit. Idiots. Crap. Embarrassing. Painful to watch for a good part of the game.

Someone said above that TFC was doing well in the first half, "TFC kept the ball well." Sorry that's incorrect. The goals were nice, but for a good part of the 1st half, especially towards the end of the half, NE was already controlling the play for the vast majority of time. TFC's 2nd goal really came against the run of play, before that I was getting very worried that NE would level the score before halftime.

Nice to see Mariner already throwing guys under the bus, he keeps harping about the "young backline." Sure that's part of the problem, but TFC had 35.3% possession today. I don't think there's a back line in all of MLS that can safely defend against that. NE had 64.7% possession, that's a woeful stat for TFC especially against NE. Only twice this season (before this game), NE have had a possession % in the high 50s, generally it's much lower for them, and their average possession % (before today) was 47%. NE is 7th in the East. To let a team like that run around in your home field with 65% possession is a disgrace & doomed to fail.

Kocic had some awesome saves, but he actually was one of the worst at giving the ball away. So many long kicks to nowhere, and the ball kept coming back & back again. "Guys, play TFC to be guaranteed a great learning experience, we will let you run target practice at us non-stop for close to 90 minutes per game." :facepalm:

Pookie
06-24-2012, 06:36 AM
^You're being sarcastic right? (it's hard to tell in writing)

Yes sir. Sarcasm indeed

Pookie
06-24-2012, 06:41 AM
Can't be bothered to post detail about it now, but how about the Paul Mariner show? His act on the touch line is unbelievable.

This may be a minor thing to some but I liked that Winter was trying to bring some respect to the club and for the players themselves. Suits and ties required for players and for coaches on the sidelines for the most part.

Mariner is bringing in a relaxed dress code. I guess looking like a WalMart shopper says "professional".

Noticed in post game interviews the cameras caught Soolsma wearing the suit and red tie. Good on him for sticking with the "respect for yourself and club" mantra Winter instilled.

brad
06-24-2012, 06:47 AM
Can't be bothered to post detail about it now, but how about the Paul Mariner show? His act on the touch line is unbelievable.

It is quite amusing. Good thing the fourth official is lax about managers leaving their technical area. He was even on the field at times.

narduch
06-24-2012, 06:50 AM
At this pace, Mariner won't be around next season. The better teams in this league will embarrass TFC. This has the same feel as the Dasovic coaching era.

I'm hoping that Bell/Rogers can take over soon. The sooner TFC can hire the next regime the better. 2013 will also be a right off season if the new management team isn't in place in a timely manner.

Sort of off topic, but Aceval and Soolsma didn't take part in the reserve match either. Kurt Larson is speculating that the club is trying to move them.

Chris Wren
06-24-2012, 07:32 AM
Nothing is going to change when Bell/Rogers take over. They are going to be about making money, just like now. Also, there is no guarantee a rich passionate owner is going to mean results. Look at Dan Snyder who owns the Washington Redskins as a prime example. Jerry Jones, who owns the Dallas Cowboys, won when he bought the team but hasn't won in 20 years despite wanting it so bad. Don't hold out hope that new owners are going to make things better.

Every person in the damn stadium could see that goal coming. It's absolutely sick to have to see that happen time and time again. I wanted to run on the field and slap the players and tell them to wake up. Unfortunately I had to stand and watch the inevitable happen.

If my season ticket prices aren't slashed I am absolutely not renewing. Out of principle I just can't give this team my money any more with results like that.

TOBOR !
06-24-2012, 07:34 AM
I bumped into Soolsma after the game. He couldn't say why he wasn't dressed for the game, but he has a meeting with Mariner coming up on Monday. I guess that's when he'll learn his fate.

Auzzy
06-24-2012, 07:37 AM
At this pace, Mariner won't be around next season. The better teams in this league will embarrass TFC. This has the same feel as the Dasovic coaching era.

I'm hoping that Bell/Rogers can take over soon. The sooner TFC can hire the next regime the better. 2013 will also be a right off season if the new management team isn't in place in a timely manner.

Sort of off topic, but Aceval and Soolsma didn't take part in the reserve match either. Kurt Larson is speculating that the club is trying to move them.

Oh great, dump Soolsma, a guy on this team who can calmly control the ball, maintain a bit of possession, decent coming back to defend, supplies a fair number of assists, and an occasional goal. I guess Mariner feels our possession stats are still too high, not happy until we're below 30%?

RE coaching choice: why don't we try something new? TFC already holds the record for the most players in a season. Why don't we go for most coaches in a season? And boost the entertainment value at the same time? The answer is "TFC Coaching Idol." Mariner has three "X's" (vs. KC, Houston, New England), he's outta the show, next one! A few folks off this board would be good contenders.

EDIT: Although if we go by entertainment value alone, Mariner should stay of course. Next home game, I should ONLY watch PM on the sideline, forget about watching the game. More entertaining, less depressing.

tfc007
06-24-2012, 07:56 AM
After they fire Mariner which should takes to the middle of next season,we will have a new coach and back in the loop of cycle of shit we call the TFC! FUCK THIS ORGANIZATION THEY NOT ABOUT WINNING, ONLY ABOUT SCAMMING YOUR MONEY! WAKE UP PEOPLE

gomesv
06-24-2012, 08:55 AM
I was at a neighbours backyard swimming party with my family, having a good time....then it was time to leave for the game.....after the game It was surprising to me to have made the decision quite easily that I WILL NOT be renewing next year......such a shame but I'm not putting up with this garbage anymore!!!!!

TFC Cityboy
06-24-2012, 09:05 AM
Posted this on TFC's facebook page (post match) https://www.facebook.com/#!/torontofc

I should preface that I wasn't there yesterday but have only missed about 6 home games in TFC history, and I don't need to have seen all 95 mins yesterday to know what I missed.

how do you allow a free header in the box in the last 30 seconds of injury time? If JDG was knackered, why not bring Stinson on as a like for like midfielder instead of Reggie Lambe? Why do we sit so deep and invite wave after wave of pressure when holding a lead? Why does Mariner get a promotion when he is responsible for signing many of the players who are obv not good enough? And most critically, why, after SIX BLOODY YEARS, have MLSE not put in place a football manangment structure at this damned club? There is no Director of Football/ knowlegable management between coaches and Anselmi and for this reason , after 6 years of futility, Anselmi must pay with his job. ANSELMI OUT

[NBF]
06-24-2012, 09:10 AM
I cant believe Soolsma, Harden, Dunfield are still with the team. For what they're being paid you could have kept a player like Yourassowsky who was versatile and had plenty of pace to do all three of their jobs.

Auzzy
06-24-2012, 09:16 AM
^ Ha ha ha that's a good laugh! Yourassowsky over Soolsma, YHGTBFKM!!

cmonyoureds
06-24-2012, 09:27 AM
Gotta give some credit to Danny K. From what I saw, the ONLY player to even look in the fans direction and acknowledge after the game. Walked all the way over to us. You can tell the guy was upset....again. Anyone know who he went into the stands to talk to/ what that was about?

cmonyoureds
06-24-2012, 09:36 AM
It looked like Frings and JDG were going to die around the 20 minute mark! The last play Frings had was when he was through on goal...he didn't even get to touch the ball and missed it completely - he looked gassed as hell! And JDG was having a horrible second half, couldn't hardly kick the ball in any direction! I don't blame Mariner for taking them out at this stage. But it showed that we are totally lacking in depth that we don't have a replacement for either that isn't a 20 year old boy on the bench!

Ummm isn't that what Mariner was supposed to be fixing the last......ohhh.........18 months or so?

Canary10
06-24-2012, 09:49 AM
That was probably the most trashed I was for a game this year. Thankfully. My observations: Mariner is a buffoon on the sidelines. The players have tuned him out already from what I could see. And Plata wasn't even in the lineup. As I said before, there's no place for him in this formation. Mariner has marginalized the most creative player we have on the ball. I suspsect the rumours are true that he's on his way back to Quito.

narduch
06-24-2012, 09:51 AM
The Plata exclusion may be injury related.

Auzzy
06-24-2012, 09:52 AM
That was probably the most trashed I was for a game this year. Thankfully. My observations: Mariner is a buffoon on the sidelines. The players have tuned him out already from what I could see. And Plata wasn't even in the lineup. As I said before, there's no place for him in this formation. Mariner has marginalized the most creative player we have on the ball. I suspsect the rumours are true that he's on his way back to Quito.

Agreed about the buffoon part. I also agree it's hard to fit Plata (also Soolsma) into this lineup. (Others like Frings & JDG are also worse fits than they were before -- more about that another time.) As a result Mariner's comments "the players decide the formation" are total BS. But Plata wasn't on the bench yesterday because he was injured in training on Friday.

denime
06-24-2012, 09:53 AM
Absolutely disgraceful... This is on Mariner and his incompetent subs, and his whole HOOF BALL mentality.. Did we even have 20% possession in the 2nd half?
Yes he is.



Same thing twice in a row. You guys thought Winter was a bad tactician? This is awful. Subbing out JDG for Lambe is a fucking disaster idea. What the fuck is with the hoofball for 10 minutes+? Utterly pathetic.
Get use to it more of this is coming.



Sorry but after 3 games with Mariner I have seen enough, this guy is utterly clueless.. Let's take off all the midfield that can put two passes together (Avila, Frings & JDG) and just hoof the ball up the field non stop... I mean look at Spain they hold on to the ball and have so little success.. What a complete Joke!!! Fire everyone!! Rant over
Yes he is and knew that the day they introduced him,442hooooooooooooof from the '80 is all he can coach.



Perfect example of our garbage tactics.
Attack and get up and then go into a shell and kick the ball away like fucking idiots for the last half hour and pretend like we're capable of absorbing pressure for the better part of a half.

Idiotic.

So much for MLS pragmatism. Lol
Btw...new England were garbage.
We made them look decent.
Agree 100% and
BTW we did made NER look decent,we made them look like Barcelona FFS



Can we all agree that "hoof it out" means "it is coming back" ? To go from watching Spain defend a lead by keeping possession to that shit-show was ridiculous.

Youngest backline in the league... yep. Nice to use that as an excuse when you helped build it. And if you didn't have a hand in building it, what the hell we you collecting a paycheck for?

Under Winter 2.1 goals against per game. Under Mariner 2.3

Roster mis-management, lead by ineffective managers is the reason this team is where they are.

Notes outside of the game itself:

Rongren on the color commentary is more than deficient. Trying to tell me what I am seeing isn't what I'm seeing. Praising TFC's back line for be "impenetrable" while I am watching Kocic (and a post) bail them out time and time again. Not sure what the possession was in the 2nd half but I'd be surprised if it was over 30%.

MLSE continuing to offer its games on GolTV is an absolute fail. Abandon the idea of a soccer channel and get the games on the network of your owners... you know, like Montreal and Vancouver have done.
YES on all of the above



WINTER gone SOCCER gone
Almost,while Winter was wrong choice for Head coach,he was on the right track to get this club to play soccer instead ofwhateever the fu*k we are playing now.



I'll have more to post tomorrow.

But my initital impressions aren't pretty. I'm angry at the decision makers who think that these tactics are going to make us a winning team. The tactics were atrocious. Our goals came from players knowing each other's movements better and not from the right formations and executing insightful tactics. Ryan, Koevs, et all have gelled enough to know how to anticipate each others movements. Twice. And now - Mariner will take credit for that?

We couldn't sew 6-8 passes together. Opposition pressure = TFC hoof ball. This was note a pleasant game to watch. The joke in my section, once the second half started, was that the team was playing for a tie. They were talking about TFC.

The tactics were either all wrong or the coaching directions weren't being followed. Either way, Mariner has some serious work to do.
Can't wait for your today's longer post my friend,this one you nailed it.:smash:



Mariner looks like an idiot - takes our captain out - what a move - from there... downhill. Winter made some unusual subs, but taking Frings out was idiocy. Avila out? Julian B. Guzman? What the fuck is Mariner doing - arguably his three best players - what a fuckin bonehead. I cannot explain Mariner's mistakes... sorry... TAKE FUCKING DUNFIELD OUT - now that would be a substitution. Winter was not great - but this is sad....:facepalm:
No one can,I'm sure even he can't aether.



On a positive note, TFC has managed put itself in a position to win the last 2 games, which was an extreme rarity earlier this season. I think that demonstrating the ability to build a lead is a sign of improvement in of itself.

Unfortunately, squandering 2 goal leads in back to back games is also a clear indication that Mariner needs to adjust his approach to tactical adjustments and substitutions late in games.

Hopefully, Mariner and the boys will get over the hump and learn how to close out games moving forward.

And yeah, watching these last few games definitely feels like 2009 again, for better or worse.
Only positive note is that we did not lost the game 5-2,we had 3 shots on the net and scored twice,while Kocic heroics stopped NER to tie the game in first 45 minutes.



Well, I hope that Mariner buys each lad a beer for each time they boot the ball looooooonnnng. Guys need to be rewarded for executing his genius tactics perfectly.

Total garbage. Tripe. Bullshit. Idiots. Crap. Embarrassing. Painful to watch for a good part of the game.

Someone said above that TFC was doing well in the first half, "TFC kept the ball well." Sorry that's incorrect. The goals were nice, but for a good part of the 1st half, especially towards the end of the half, NE was already controlling the play for the vast majority of time. TFC's 2nd goal really came against the run of play, before that I was getting very worried that NE would level the score before halftime.

Nice to see Mariner already throwing guys under the bus, he keeps harping about the "young backline." Sure that's part of the problem, but TFC had 35.3% possession today. I don't think there's a back line in all of MLS that can safely defend against that. NE had 64.7% possession, that's a woeful stat for TFC especially against NE. Only twice this season (before this game), NE have had a possession % in the high 50s, generally it's much lower for them, and their average possession % (before today) was 47%. NE is 7th in the East. To let a team like that run around in your home field with 65% possession is a disgrace & doomed to fail.

Kocic had some awesome saves, but he actually was one of the worst at giving the ball away. So many long kicks to nowhere, and the ball kept coming back & back again. "Guys, play TFC to be guaranteed a great learning experience, we will let you run target practice at us non-stop for close to 90 minutes per game." :facepalm:
Mariner like to have a pint with boys and that is the reason why TFC does not have curfew and dress code,FFS look at him,his red nose tells me he likes Pint more that anyting else and the way he dress is wallmart writeen all over it,good job ANSELMI and now would you please GTFO.



Oh great, dump Soolsma, a guy on this team who can calmly control the ball, maintain a bit of possession, decent coming back to defend, supplies a fair number of assists, and an occasional goal. I guess Mariner feels our possession stats are still too high, not happy until we're below 30%?

RE coaching choice: why don't we try something new? TFC already holds the record for the most players in a season. Why don't we go for most coaches in a season? And boost the entertainment value at the same time? The answer is "TFC Coaching Idol." Mariner has three "X's" (vs. KC, Houston, New England), he's outta the show, next one! A few folks off this board would be good contenders.

EDIT: Although if we go by entertainment value alone, Mariner should stay of course. Next home game, I should ONLY watch PM on the sideline, forget about watching the game. More entertaining, less depressing.
Yeah, I heard the comment after the game that TFC Circus is back in town next Staurday vs NYRB,and thought myselfs circus,how approriate.



After they fire Mariner which should takes to the middle of next season,we will have a new coach and back in the loop of cycle of shit we call the TFC! FUCK THIS ORGANIZATION THEY NOT ABOUT WINNING, ONLY ABOUT SCAMMING YOUR MONEY! WAKE UP PEOPLE
True



Posted this on TFC's facebook page (post match) https://www.facebook.com/#!/torontofc (https://www.facebook.com/#%21/torontofc)

I should preface that I wasn't there yesterday but have only missed about 6 home games in TFC history, and I don't need to have seen all 95 mins yesterday to know what I missed.

how do you allow a free header in the box in the last 30 seconds of injury time? If JDG was knackered, why not bring Stinson on as a like for like midfielder instead of Reggie Lambe? Why do we sit so deep and invite wave after wave of pressure when holding a lead? Why does Mariner get a promotion when he is responsible for signing many of the players who are obv not good enough? And most critically, why, after SIX BLOODY YEARS, have MLSE not put in place a football manangment structure at this damned club? There is no Director of Football/ knowlegable management between coaches and Anselmi and for this reason , after 6 years of futility, Anselmi must pay with his job. ANSELMI OUT

agree ANSELMI OUT

Canary10
06-24-2012, 10:05 AM
Agreed about the buffoon part. I also agree it's hard to fit Plata (also Soolsma) into this lineup. (Others like Frings & JDG are also worse fits than they were before -- more about that another time.) As a result Mariner's comments "the players decide the formation" are total BS. But Plata wasn't on the bench yesterday because he was injured in training on Friday.

Thanks, hadn't heard that he was injured.

The irony of the Soolsma situation is that I think he's the only player we have who fits the wide midfielder role in a 4-4-2. And Mariner's shitting all over him? Idiot.

denime
06-24-2012, 10:42 AM
My 10 cents about the game.

The first half TFC did ok, good to go in at the break with the lead. I thought RJ and DK looked VERY good and dangerous going forward and looked like a proper striker pairing that we have been missing in the 4-3-3 formation. TFC kept the ball well and looked to play football, not much long ball going on. Excellent crosses for the goals.

The second half started pretty well. Excellent run by Morgan at the start. But then it went completely wrong. It looked, to me, like a lot of the players were completely out of gas by the 60th minute. I think Mariner's subs were dictated by how the players were looking - Frings, and JDG looked liked they were totally exhausted. JDG in particular started kicking the ball all over the place, couldn't put a pass together to save his life after the 60th minute! I don't blame Mariner for keeping Dunfield on, as he did look like he had more legs than the other two. I personally would have put Plata on in place of JDG, and got the little guy to run and at least keep the NE backline on their toes. Stinson would have also been a better sub than Lambe.

So it really WAS a game of two halves, as the old adage goes. Good first half from TFC, poor second half.

Mind you, that's better than games earlier in the season, where it was two poor halves! So, I'll give Mariner the benefit of the doubt still right now.

TFC are severaly missing somebody over the age of 23 in defence! An old head would calm those young boys down in moments like the second half. Ecks, Henry, Morgan, Hall, and then Emory all took it in turns to bash the ball to nobody in the second half. They weren't doing in the first half, they were calmly playing the ball out of defence to a red shirt. The second half they all had a bit of a nightmare!

First job fo Mariner come July 1st is to find an experience CB from somewhere.....anywhere!!!!


It looked like Frings and JDG were going to die around the 20 minute mark! The last play Frings had was when he was through on goal...he didn't even get to touch the ball and missed it completely - he looked gassed as hell! And JDG was having a horrible second half, couldn't hardly kick the ball in any direction! I don't blame Mariner for taking them out at this stage. But it showed that we are totally lacking in depth that we don't have a replacement for either that isn't a 20 year old boy on the bench!


Makes me wonder WTF was Mariner doing last 18 months that we have to wait until July 1st.
What makes you think he will be able to do that now when he is a head coach when he couldn't do it when that was his only job?

tfc2008
06-24-2012, 10:45 AM
I think Mariner dont like Soolsma,so you can see he isnt a coach but a clown on the side line

ag futbol
06-24-2012, 11:17 AM
So I’m watching the highlights to the game and the first thing I start to notice is Ashton Morgan seems to be suffering from Marvell Wynn syndrome. Supreme athleticism, but nobody has ever bothered to break this kid of bad habits that ultimately threaten the TFC defense.

In one clip you can see where there’s an attacking player advancing up his flank, rather than move out to cover the space, he pinches too far inward which pretty much guarantees if the ball goes out wide that N.E. will get a cross in. I think to myself: “where’d he learn to do that?”. Then it dons on me that our defense is being ‘coached’ by a former shit LB who had a lot of those same crappy habits.

Let’s hope the kid puts some work in during the offseason and rounds out his game. He has the opportunity to be quite good actually, but someone has to impress on him that if he wants to maximize his career potential, relying on your superior speed won’t be enough.

This also shows the problem with youth development when you have no depth. If we had a proper team, mistakes like this would be punished and he’d be sent to the bench. As it stands, the other options are soo poor that he can get away with these mistakes week after week.

T-boy
06-24-2012, 11:28 AM
Maybe but under winter we had the same young naive defenders and the same midfielders (except frings was hurt for a stretch and Winter didn't have him at his disposal) AND earlier in the season they didn't have an in form Koevermans scoring every game but....

You weren't hearing those excuses then. They were horseshit to you then.

So tell me...why does mariner get a pass now....despite having the same team (if not more with Koev in form) and still getting the same ludicrous results?

I'm genuinely interested to hear you defend Mariners choices.

Btw...you forgive Mariner saying that it wasn't his actual "game plan" to have the players kick the ball away to nobody and excuse him for that.

But you know, for a fact, that Winter never wanted his players to kick the ball away aimlessly cause he said so explicitly in post game interviews.

But again, you had no patience for those excuses then.

Why now?


Mariner gets a pass right now because:

1. He's only had a handful of training sessions with the players. And of those handful of sessions, a lot of the key players were away on international duty. He's had hardly any time to instill "his" gameplan on the players. Meanwhile Winter had all off season to get the players playing his way. I think Mariner needs more than 4 or 5 full training sessions.
2. TFC have been constantly traveling since the international players came back to the club. In thursday they were traveling for 8 hours. Meanwhile NE had a by week and didn't play a game.

By both accounts, Mariner needs more time than a handful of traning sessions with the players. I'm not sure how people aren't realising this fact? If you want to get rid of Mariner after 3 games, where, may I say, I have seen improvement over the early part of the season, then you are very impatient!

You really have to look at the team with a fresh outlook since Mariner has taken over. Winter didn't get ANY points in his first 9 games, whereas Mariner has 2 points. That's 100% better than Winter! So, really that IS an improvement.

TFC clearly played a good first half in both the Houston and NE games. I saw a lot of positive things in those first half's. So, this IS improvement over Winter, so Mariner definitely needs more than just a handful of training sessions and some difficult games and grueling away trips.

ag futbol
06-24-2012, 11:31 AM
Terry Dunfield is one of the worst professional football players I have ever seen, without a shred of over exaggeration. Bear in mind, as an Arsenal season ticket holder in the early 2000s I watched Igor Steponovs week in, week out.

He's slow, can't pass to feet and has absolutely no creativity on the ball. Plus if watch a number of goals against us this year, they all start with him casually giving the ball away. I appreciate this is a poor league, but someone who is paid to play football for a living must be able to consistently pass the ball to feet from twelve yards away.
I could not agree more, what is this guy doing in MLS? His play is atrocious.

T-boy
06-24-2012, 11:32 AM
But you know, for a fact, that Winter never wanted his players to kick the ball away aimlessly cause he said so explicitly in post game interviews.

But again, you had no patience for those excuses then.

Why now?


Winter wanted his players to play it short ALL THE TIME. That was getting TFC into a heap of trouble in the defence over and over again earlier this season AND last season. I don't blame Mariner for telling his players "if in trouble kick it long". That's extremely sensible if you ask me!

Yesterday NE changed their shape, I saw it about ten minutes into the second half, and it changed the game. You have to remember that there are TWO teams playing and TWO teams and managers dictating the play. The shuffle in NE's pack meant that they overloaded TFC in defence (their attack) and the young TFC defenders just couldn't cope. That's why I'm argueing that a more experience defender would be extremely useful in that type of situation.

T-boy
06-24-2012, 11:36 AM
I don't understand people on this forum sometimes or TFC fans in general.

Winter lost 9 games in a row and everybody was defending him.

Mariner now gets two draws in a row, and everybody hates him.

I honestly don't understand! Two draws is clearly better than 9 straight losses! I'm fully behind Mariner at this point as its clearly better than earlier this season when we didn't ever look like winning a game. Having half games of decent football and winning parts of games is better than 9 games of utter tripe.

iy12l
06-24-2012, 11:39 AM
If Mariner gets rid of Soolsma and Plata im gonna be really pissed off, this guy keeps playing Terry fucking duncefield who keeps hoofing the ball to the other team. Hes not even a winger, so why play him on the wing?!?

Auzzy
06-24-2012, 11:42 AM
I don't understand people on this forum sometimes or TFC fans in general.

Winter lost 9 games in a row and everybody was defending him.

Mariner now gets two draws in a row, and everybody hates him.

I honestly don't understand! Two draws is clearly better than 9 straight losses! I'm fully behind Mariner at this point as its clearly better than earlier this season when we didn't ever look like winning a game. Having half games of decent football and winning parts of games is better than 9 games of utter tripe.

"Everybody." Oh I love those generalizations.

Stryker
06-24-2012, 12:01 PM
I'm done with this loser organization. Five years of a front office full of clueless accountants, coaches who have the tactical edge of a loaf of bread and a constant revolving door of players who ethier lack skill, heart or both.
The passion is dead only to be replaced with jaded empathy. Not gonna waste another moment or penny on TORONTO FC.

P.S. - Fuck you Anselmi, you and that other weasel Beirne can sure run an instant success into the ground.

Up The TFC
06-24-2012, 12:07 PM
Winter lost 9 games in a row and everybody was defending him.

Mariner now gets two draws in a row, and everybody hates him.

I honestly don't understand! Two draws is clearly better than 9 straight losses! I'm fully behind Mariner at this point as its clearly better than earlier this season when we didn't ever look like winning a game. Having half games of decent football and winning parts of games is better than 9 games of utter tripe.

Are you ignoring the Cup competitions on purpose or by accident? A season involves more than just the league, as far as I'm concerned. And if you want to play selective math, Winter had 18 wins. Mariner has zero.

Ajax TFC
06-24-2012, 12:14 PM
Bunch of random opinions about Mariner, the team, etc.
Mariner is a complete joke. I found it hilarious how all the sports media guys were raving about how much better he was than Winter after they saw one training session. They all raved about how upbeat the players were in training which clearly meant that Mariner was the greatest. Of course they could just completely forget about how upbeat the team was under Winter When he first took over, at the end of his first season, and for the first month or two of this season.

The only thing I had against Winter was his player selections. IMO his system and everything were fine, he would often just select the wrong players. You can't play possession football on any level when you play Terry Dunfield in midfield, yet he played in almost every game. Mariner claimed he was going to tweak a few things, and IMO one of the only things he had to tweak was finding an alternate to Dunfield *cough* Burgos *cough* as the backup DM. But instead Mariner moved Dunfield up in the pecking order and made him a starter when no one was injured, and moved good footballers out of the starting XI

Mariner has no idea what he's supposed to do as a coach. He hops around on the sidelines waving and yelling like a maniac expecting the players to respond. He looks like he's trying to coach a kids team (and sucking the fun out of it). Remember how Winter was trying to build a professional environment? Now everything about the team seems amateur. I guess professionalism doesn't go along with his model of "having fun". Is it a coincidence that within the first couple of weeks of this unprofessional, slack approach we have three players out drinking at 2:45AM? and how do we know that there weren't more? all we know is that three were arrested.

so far Mariner's "small tweaks" to make the team better have been
- run it like an amateur club rather than a professional one
- drop footballers for grinders
- get rid of the ball as much as possible rather than trying to keep it as much as possible
- isolate other footballers completely
we'll see how that list grows in future games

denime
06-24-2012, 12:24 PM
I don't understand people on this forum sometimes or TFC fans in general.

Winter lost 9 games in a row and everybody was defending him.

Mariner now gets two draws in a row, and everybody hates him.

I honestly don't understand! Two draws is clearly better than 9 straight losses! I'm fully behind Mariner at this point as its clearly better than earlier this season when we didn't ever look like winning a game. Having half games of decent football and winning parts of games is better than 9 games of utter tripe.

What you don't get is that TFC was improving after shit start ,so how about we drop that where we were at the begining and look where we were before his gray eminence Mariner with his uncle Tom fired Winter.Winter was 3-2-2 in May,Mariner is 0-1-2 in June,Mariner has to win 3 in next 4 games to be on the same level were Winter was before he got fired ,only if we win next 4 games you can call that result improvment,game wise we are now ,2 years behind or even worst, if Preki had this roster he would do it better after only 3 weeks than Mariner' the sideline clown'.
You can give Mariner another year wont matter,Mariner's 800 years old 442 booooooootball can not win the games,period.

Fort York Redcoat
06-24-2012, 12:30 PM
voodoo and T-boy, you're both making great points but realize that "everybody" ie most people here are going to fall into somewhere in between the 2 extremes you're representing.

I understand your frustration since both opinions are born from wanting the best direction for the team.


One thing I'd like to highlight is that we've chosen an "Anselmi Out" message that isn't directly involving the of placement of Mariner as head coach. Mariner has time to impress, just not a lot of it.

reggie
06-24-2012, 12:39 PM
PM..is a clown and im embarrassed that he is our coach.

ag futbol
06-24-2012, 12:54 PM
What you don't get is that TFC was improving after shit start ,so how about we drop that where we were at the begining and look where we were before his gray eminence Mariner with his uncle Tom fired Winter.Winter was 3-2-2 in May,Mariner is 0-1-2 in June,Mariner has to win 3 in next 4 games to be on the same level were Winter was before he got fired ,only if we win next 4 games you can call that result improvment,game wise we are now ,2 years behind or even worst, if Preki had this roster he would do it better after only 3 weeks than Mariner' the sideline clown'.
You can give Mariner another year wont matter,Mariner's 800 years old 442 booooooootball can not win the games,period.
I'm not sure how much that matters. That improvement was microscopic in the grand scheme of things. More than likely it was just a small uptick in form for a team that has always been bad, but not bad enough to go winless an entire season.

As far as I'm concerned, the team made the right decision to fire Winter, although it was done at a bad time. As far as PM goes, I'll accept him as intern manager until the end of the season, at which point TFC better have a good plan to put someone new in place.

T-boy
06-24-2012, 01:06 PM
voodoo and T-boy, you're both making great points but realize that "everybody" ie most people here are going to fall into somewhere in between the 2 extremes you're representing.

I understand your frustration since both opinions are born from wanting the best direction for the team.


One thing I'd like to highlight is that we've chosen an "Anselmi Out" message that isn't directly involving the of placement of Mariner as head coach. Mariner has time to impress, just not a lot of it.


I realise that generalisations aren't a way of winning an argument. But at least I'm not jumping on the bandwagon of a few people saying "I hate TFC, I'm not going anymore" and things like that. I'm trying to make an argument rather than petulantly throwing toys out of my pram. Plus, a forum isn't really the place to make many of the arguments most of us are making. I could write a 10,000 word essay on the current issues with the team and what the manager could do (and not mention anything about the fron office or Anselmi, as that would push my essay to 100,000!. I'm trying to state my case and argument in a few words, which is extremely difficult, so making generalisations is a lot easier and quicker than typing 10,000 words (that nobody will read!).

T-boy
06-24-2012, 01:07 PM
I'm not sure how much that matters. That improvement was microscopic in the grand scheme of things. More than likely it was just a small uptick in form for a team that has always been bad, but not bad enough to go winless an entire season.

As far as I'm concerned, the team made the right decision to fire Winter, although it was done at a bad time. As far as PM goes, I'll accept him as intern manager until the end of the season, at which point TFC better have a good plan to put someone new in place.


what if PM starts getting results by the end of the season? Would you give him the start of next season to continue? Or are you only looking at PM as interim, no matter how the results go?

T-boy
06-24-2012, 01:13 PM
Bunch of random opinions about Mariner, the team, etc.
Mariner is a complete joke. I found it hilarious how all the sports media guys were raving about how much better he was than Winter after they saw one training session. They all raved about how upbeat the players were in training which clearly meant that Mariner was the greatest. Of course they could just completely forget about how upbeat the team was under Winter When he first took over, at the end of his first season, and for the first month or two of this season.

The only thing I had against Winter was his player selections. IMO his system and everything were fine, he would often just select the wrong players. You can't play possession football on any level when you play Terry Dunfield in midfield, yet he played in almost every game. Mariner claimed he was going to tweak a few things, and IMO one of the only things he had to tweak was finding an alternate to Dunfield *cough* Burgos *cough* as the backup DM. But instead Mariner moved Dunfield up in the pecking order and made him a starter when no one was injured, and moved good footballers out of the starting XI

Mariner has no idea what he's supposed to do as a coach. He hops around on the sidelines waving and yelling like a maniac expecting the players to respond. He looks like he's trying to coach a kids team (and sucking the fun out of it). Remember how Winter was trying to build a professional environment? Now everything about the team seems amateur. I guess professionalism doesn't go along with his model of "having fun". Is it a coincidence that within the first couple of weeks of this unprofessional, slack approach we have three players out drinking at 2:45AM? and how do we know that there weren't more? all we know is that three were arrested.

so far Mariner's "small tweaks" to make the team better have been
- run it like an amateur club rather than a professional one
- drop footballers for grinders
- get rid of the ball as much as possible rather than trying to keep it as much as possible
- isolate other footballers completely
we'll see how that list grows in future games

I see PM quite the opposite to you. I LOVE that he runs up and down the touchline looking like he's teaming an under 11 team. I love his passion! Winter was dour and boring to watch and didn't look like he could motivate anybody to do anything at all! I hope Mariner keeps up his animated sideline coaching!

As for chosing Dunfield. I think I can appreciate why PM is picking him right now. TFC have an exceptionally inexperienced defence at the moment, so to pick an equally inexpererienced midfield would be suicide. PM is picking his 4 most experienced midfielders to counterbalance the backline. I would love to see Stinson playing, but that would make the average age of the starting 11 way too low. Dunfield isn't classy at all, but he brings a bit more experience than the young midfieldesr than we have on the bench. You also hear everybody in the squad/team saying how Dunfield is such a great guy in the dressing room. We don't see the players in training each day, so its hard for fans to see who is training hard and who isn't. Dunfield is probably the guy that is a pleasure to train as he works his butt off (probably cos he needs to!!!) so that's probably why Mariner is picking him at this moment in time.

Chris Wren
06-24-2012, 01:13 PM
What you don't get is that TFC was improving after shit start ,so how about we drop that where we were at the begining and look where we were before his gray eminence Mariner with his uncle Tom fired Winter.Winter was 3-2-2 in May,Mariner is 0-1-2 in June,Mariner has to win 3 in next 4 games to be on the same level were Winter was before he got fired ,only if we win next 4 games you can call that result improvment,game wise we are now ,2 years behind or even worst, if Preki had this roster he would do it better after only 3 weeks than Mariner' the sideline clown'.
You can give Mariner another year wont matter,Mariner's 800 years old 442 booooooootball can not win the games,period.


How can you continue to defend Winter? It's crazy. Mariner might not be the answer, but to continue to talk like Winter was doing good work is ludicrous. I get that you don't like English football, but to say a system like the 4-4-2 can't win games, period, is just plain silly.

Chris Wren
06-24-2012, 01:20 PM
I don't understand people on this forum sometimes or TFC fans in general.

Winter lost 9 games in a row and everybody was defending him.

Mariner now gets two draws in a row, and everybody hates him.

I honestly don't understand! Two draws is clearly better than 9 straight losses! I'm fully behind Mariner at this point as its clearly better than earlier this season when we didn't ever look like winning a game. Having half games of decent football and winning parts of games is better than 9 games of utter tripe.

I don't know if I'm a Mariner fan, but I'll give him to the end of the year to see what he can do.

I too am baffled by the support Winter is getting. Just saying that you're playing a system doesn't make it so. I could say my shitbox car is a Cadillac, but that doesn't make it true either.

ag futbol
06-24-2012, 01:22 PM
what if PM starts getting results by the end of the season? Would you give him the start of next season to continue? Or are you only looking at PM as interim, no matter how the results go?
He'd have to do really, really, well to win my confidence. I'd also be looking for some sign that he can actually scout talent effectively and bring in players that we need. Depending how this transfer window goes, it will change my opinion significantly.

starter
06-24-2012, 01:22 PM
The second half was utter 'hard to watch' garbage.
The MLS season by the time AW was let go was a write-off anyways, but bringing PM brand of 442 destroys a lot of continuity, while doing little to attract casual fan. ( btw, I would even choose either BDC or TR at that point. )
I do not wish yet for PM to fail, but I do believe TFC is wrong to leave 433 at this point.
And yes, I like both Soolsma and Plata to stay!

denime
06-24-2012, 01:49 PM
How can you continue to defend Winter? It's crazy. Mariner might not be the answer, but to continue to talk like Winter was doing good work is ludicrous. I get that you don't like English football, but to say a system like the 4-4-2 can't win games, period, is just plain silly.

I do not defend Winter I disagree with Anselmi's decision to hire Mariner,who has less games as Head Coach than Winter(Mariner 14,now 17 Games as HC,Winter when fired 66),who is total opposite from what TFC(Winter) was doing for the last 18 months,Mariner who is directly responsible that we don't have good CB,and that roster is the way it is,why should I give him more than one month to show me improvement on and off the field.

Winter in May 3-2-2,outplayed Montreal with 10 players,was better than Shitcaps in both games,and played soccer that was enjoyable,both teams are better in standings than NER,HD,off the field no problems.

Mariner in June 0-1-2,TFC was outplayed in all 3 games,booting the ball annoying,ugly and not enjoyable at all,off the field?well, we all know,no curfew,long nights in bars and few arrests,and why not when Mariner is nothing better,he likes the pint more than anything.


I wrote in post before it was right thing to fire Winter,timing and new coach was/is 100% wrong and just another Anselmi's spin to save his us,and it's sad to see supporters are actuality buying that BS from ML$E again.

Mariner has one month,and not only result has to improve but the game on the pitch,since he is a part of problem that we are in for the last 18 months,giving him one month to "tweak" is more than enough time.

cmonyoureds
06-24-2012, 02:15 PM
Winter wanted his players to play it short ALL THE TIME. That was getting TFC into a heap of trouble in the defence over and over again earlier this season AND last season. I don't blame Mariner for telling his players "if in trouble kick it long". That's extremely sensible if you ask me!

Yesterday NE changed their shape, I saw it about ten minutes into the second half, and it changed the game. You have to remember that there are TWO teams playing and TWO teams and managers dictating the play. The shuffle in NE's pack meant that they overloaded TFC in defence (their attack) and the young TFC defenders just couldn't cope. That's why I'm argueing that a more experience defender would be extremely useful in that type of situation.

Sorry, in my books, if we play this card, then Mariner should have done something to deal with this through substitutions. Taking off a midfield that was performing well, and putting in what he did...............he doesn't pass this test. And that was a direct manager influence on this game. I think your argument has just indicated he was outmanaged.

Oldtimer
06-24-2012, 02:29 PM
Winter lost 9 games in a row and everybody was defending him.



I was calling for him to go, as were others.



Mariner has no idea what he's supposed to do as a coach. He hops around on the sidelines waving and yelling like a maniac expecting the players to respond. He looks like he's trying to coach a kids team (and sucking the fun out of it). Remember how Winter was trying to build a professional environment? Now everything about the team seems amateur. I guess professionalism doesn't go along with his model of "having fun". Is it a coincidence that within the first couple of weeks of this unprofessional, slack approach we have three players out drinking at 2:45AM? and how do we know that there weren't more? all we know is that three were arrested.


I really don't get this "having fun" business. Sure we want people to enjoy their work, but what is this, house league? All we want is for the boys to "have fun?" When fun means lifting a few pints and getting arrested instead of professionally preparing for an important away match? These guys are professionals... they should be acting like professionals, Mariner included. It's completely shameful... but when you're the worst team in the world with one of the worst coaches at this level, I guess we shouldn't expect anything better than for everyone to goof off and "have fun."

At the Revs, people often wondered if it was Nicol or Mariner who was the real brains behind turning that team into a winner... I think it's now pretty clear that it was Nicol. Who knows what Mariner did during that time? He clearly can't coach at this level, and his player acquisition record is crap.

BTW, Nicol is still available....

Oldtimer
06-24-2012, 02:43 PM
The second half was utter 'hard to watch' garbage.
The MLS season by the time AW was let go was a write-off anyways, but bringing PM brand of 442 destroys a lot of continuity, while doing little to attract casual fan. ( btw, I would even choose either BDC or TR at that point. )
I do not wish yet for PM to fail, but I do believe TFC is wrong to leave 433 at this point.
And yes, I like both Soolsma and Plata to stay!

I was calling for TR... at least we would be playing consistently under an MLS Cup-winning coach. However, I don't blame TR for not wanting the poisoned goblet that is working directly under Anselmi.

Yohan
06-24-2012, 03:44 PM
One big positive: Danny Koevermans has 6 goals in 10 starts. 5 goals in last 5 league games.

Chris Wren
06-24-2012, 04:15 PM
I do not defend Winter I disagree with Anselmi's decision to hire Mariner,who has less games as Head Coach than Winter(Mariner 14,now 17 Games as HC,Winter when fired 66),who is total opposite from what TFC(Winter) was doing for the last 18 months,Mariner who is directly responsible that we don't have good CB,and that roster is the way it is,why should I give him more than one month to show me improvement on and off the field.

Winter in May 3-2-2,outplayed Montreal with 10 players,was better than Shitcaps in both games,and played soccer that was enjoyable,both teams are better in standings than NER,HD,off the field no problems.

Mariner in June 0-1-2,TFC was outplayed in all 3 games,booting the ball annoying,ugly and not enjoyable at all,off the field?well, we all know,no curfew,long nights in bars and few arrests,and why not when Mariner is nothing better,he likes the pint more than anything.


I wrote in post before it was right thing to fire Winter,timing and new coach was/is 100% wrong and just another Anselmi's spin to save his us,and it's sad to see supporters are actuality buying that BS from ML$E again.

Mariner has one month,and not only result has to improve but the game on the pitch,since he is a part of problem that we are in for the last 18 months,giving him one month to "tweak" is more than enough time.

Saying ridiculous things like now under Mariner there are long nights in bars, as if that's part of his strategy or something, is just being antagonistic. It's just stupid. You say you aren't defending Winter, but then in the next sentence defend him! Read your post again, it's right there in black and white.

Again, what was the attractive soccer that I didn't see? This year we scored 8 goals in league play while conceding 21, how is that attractive play? It was ugly most games. We wanted to play attractive soccer, but we didn't.

You say Mariner is directly responsible for no CB. What do you think Winter was doing for the past 18 months, just saying yes to whatever Mariner told him to do? Another absurd suggestion to wash Winter's hands of any of the personnel on this team.

I'm not buying any BS from MLSE, but unlike you I'm being reasonable. Again, I'm no Mariner supporter, but I'm not going to base his tenure on 3 games (which got TFC more points than Winter had all season) or spew hatred towards him while trying to pretend that Winter was building something great.

narduch
06-24-2012, 04:46 PM
I think Mariner is a dead man walking. I realize its only been three games and some people want to give him more time (which he is going to get regardless for now), but he looks to be way out of his depth.

I can't help but think he was Anselmi's last hail mary pass. The ownership change at MLSE can't come soon enough.

Its too bad a real new management team couldn't be installed now, so that 2013 isn't a right off too. I'm starting to worry about that season.

Ajax TFC
06-24-2012, 04:52 PM
I was of the opinion that Winter should go, but not unconditionally. I wanted them to hire someone that would be more effective at playing possession football. I also didn't want him fired until Anselmi was replaced because I knew that Anselmi wouldn't know how to hire a proper replacement. Neither of those conditions were met, so for me firing Winter was the wrong move, especially after the team started to find form
At 1-10 the season was already lost, so the least they could do was take some time to find a manager that could pick up where Winter left off and build onto it. I'd take Winter's teaching with game day inability over Mariner's undoing everything that Winter did while still making poor game day decisions and not getting results.

Hiring Mariner was for short term results, so I will judge him on his ability to do something better than Winter NOW. I won't give him the long term because his style should not be our goal. If kick and run is TFC's "new direction" than I'm done at least until an intelligent football person is put in charge of this organization

denime
06-24-2012, 04:58 PM
Saying ridiculous things like now under Mariner there are long nights in bars, as if that's part of his strategy or something, is just being antagonistic. It's just stupid. You say you aren't defending Winter, but then in the next sentence defend him! Read your post again, it's right there in black and white.

Again, what was the attractive soccer that I didn't see? This year we scored 8 goals in league play while conceding 21, how is that attractive play? It was ugly most games. We wanted to play attractive soccer, but we didn't.

You say Mariner is directly responsible for no CB. What do you think Winter was doing for the past 18 months, just saying yes to whatever Mariner told him to do? Another absurd suggestion to wash Winter's hands of any of the personnel on this team.

I'm not buying any BS from MLSE, but unlike you I'm being reasonable. Again, I'm no Mariner supporter, but I'm not going to base his tenure on 3 games (which got TFC more points than Winter had all season) or spew hatred towards him while trying to pretend that Winter was building something great.

YES he is directly responsible,it was his job,he was paid to do that and nothing else and he is responsible not because Winter was saying yes,but Mariner was saying no and stalling negotiations with players that Winter wanted here until players and their agents would tell TFC to get lost,and again I know this from a player agents,two not one.
It was Mariners only job to look after new players acquisitions during the off season,if he thought he will find them on the bottom of every pint he drunk during that time,than I have to say yes Mariners really tried hard.
Why did we have to wait until late February to get some players to tryouts when he had all winter to the job and find players,why we have to sign two player Bourgos Jr.and Emory on March 21 just few days before CCL semis and BTW both p;ayers were suggested by Thomas Rongen,since he knew them from U20 US program .

and I don't want to go into details here but last time I checked Mariner took over with TFC having 3 point,now we have 5,you do the math.

Canary10
06-24-2012, 05:00 PM
I was of the opinion that Winter should go, but not unconditionally. I wanted them to hire someone that would be more effective at playing possession football. I also didn't want him fired until Anselmi was replaced because I knew that Anselmi wouldn't know how to hire a proper replacement. Neither of those conditions were met, so for me firing Winter was the wrong move, especially after the team started to find form
At 1-10 the season was already lost, so the least they could do was take some time to find a manager that could pick up where Winter left off and build onto it. I'd take Winter's teaching with game day inability over Mariner's undoing everything that Winter did while still making poor game day decisions and not getting results.

Hiring Mariner was for short term results, so I will judge him on his ability to do something better than Winter NOW. I won't give him the long term because his style should not be our goal. If kick and run is TFC's "new direction" than I'm done at least until an intelligent football person is put in charge of this organization


I totally agree. Doubly so if we end up losing Plata and Soolsma.

denime
06-24-2012, 05:01 PM
I was of the opinion that Winter should go, but not unconditionally. I wanted them to hire someone that would be more effective at playing possession football. I also didn't want him fired until Anselmi was replaced because I knew that Anselmi wouldn't know how to hire a proper replacement. Neither of those conditions were met, so for me firing Winter was the wrong move, especially after the team started to find form
At 1-10 the season was already lost, so the least they could do was take some time to find a manager that could pick up where Winter left off and build onto it. I'd take Winter's teaching with game day inability over Mariner's undoing everything that Winter did while still making poor game day decisions and not getting results.

Hiring Mariner was for short term results, so I will judge him on his ability to do something better than Winter NOW. I won't give him the long term because his style should not be our goal. If kick and run is TFC's "new direction" than I'm done at least until an intelligent football person is put in charge of this organization

Thanks,this is the way I see it too.

denime
06-24-2012, 05:20 PM
I totally agree. Doubly so if we end up losing Plata and Soolsma.

From what I heard,TFC is working with MLS on releasing the Winter's boy Soolsma and Mariner's bust up signup Aceval.

Aceval gone,I can live with that ,I think idiot who brought him here should go too,but Soolsma gone is just another proof that Mariner is not the right man for this job,if he can't find a spot for Soolsma but gives Dunfield to start what can we excpect for next year if he and Anslemi are still around,more Dunfields and less skilled players?

Ajax TFC
06-24-2012, 05:29 PM
From what I heard,TFC is working with MLS on releasing the Winter's boy Soolsma and Mariner's bust up signup Aceval.

Aceval gone,I can live with that ,I think idiot who brought him here should go too,but Soolsma gone is just another proof that Mariner is not the right man for this job,if he can't find a spot for Soolsma but gives Dunfield to start what can we excpect for next year if he and Anslemi are still around,more Dunfields and less skilled players?
I think we can also expect that Winter's staff will be slowly let go the way their predecessors were. If Soolsma is being let go, then it's a clear sign that Mariner is trying to rid the organization of everything related to Winter. I just hope that he doesn't have the power to do anything with the academy. He shouldn't be allowed anywhere near it. If he is, I imagine de Klerk and Rongen will be the next two guys to go

jazzy
06-24-2012, 05:39 PM
I bumped into Soolsma after the game. He couldn't say why he wasn't dressed for the game, but he has a meeting with Mariner coming up on Monday. I guess that's when he'll learn his fate.

Great Pity.........and if let go Mariners , over his head

Chris Wren
06-24-2012, 05:45 PM
YES he is directly responsible,it was his job,he was paid to do that and nothing else and he is responsible not because Winter was saying yes,but Mariner was saying no and stalling negotiations with players that Winter wanted here until players and their agents would tell TFC to get lost,and again I know this from a player agents,two not one.
It was Mariners only job to look after new players acquisitions during the off season,if he thought he will find them on the bottom of every pint he drunk during that time,than I have to say yes Mariners really tried hard.
Why did we have to wait until late February to get some players to tryouts when he had all winter to the job and find players,why we have to sign two player Bourgos Jr.and Emory on March 21 just few days before CCL semis and BTW both p;ayers were suggested by Thomas Rongen,since he knew them from U20 US program .

and I don't want to go into details here but last time I checked Mariner took over with TFC having 3 point,now we have 5,you do the math.

You are right, 2 points is less than 3. It's unfortunate it took Winter 10 games to get those 3 points. We have results in 2 out of 3 games with Mariner, but yes, one win is more points.

Your ignorant comments about Mariner and his drinking discredit you. It's clear you'll just say anything to try and defend your view point. Are you actually trying to say that Winter has no responsibility for the personnel on this team? That's just nonsensical.

Once again we have the typical inside knowledge that can't be argued. You know somebody who knows somebody. Right.

I can't debate someone who doesn't use logic. You seem to have a personal beef with Mariner, have fun with that.

CoachGT
06-24-2012, 05:45 PM
Gotta give some credit to Danny K. From what I saw, the ONLY player to even look in the fans direction and acknowledge after the game. Walked all the way over to us. You can tell the guy was upset....again. Anyone know who he went into the stands to talk to/ what that was about?

He went over to check on a kid that got hit with a ball and hurt. He was going to give up his jersey. Class act.

Canary10
06-24-2012, 05:53 PM
You are right, 2 points is less than 3. It's unfortunate it took Winter 10 games to get those 3 points. We have results in 2 out of 3 games with Mariner, but yes, one win is more points.

Your ignorant comments about Mariner and his drinking discredit you. It's clear you'll just say anything to try and defend your view point. Are you actually trying to say that Winter has no responsibility for the personnel on this team? That's just nonsensical.

Once again we have the typical inside knowledge that can't be argued. You know somebody who knows somebody. Right.

I can't debate someone who doesn't use logic. You seem to have a personal beef with Mariner, have fun with that.

If Soolsma is released will you be in support of that?

Richard
06-24-2012, 05:56 PM
From what I heard,TFC is working with MLS on releasing the Winter's boy Soolsma and Mariner's bust up signup Aceval.

Aceval gone,I can live with that ,I think idiot who brought him here should go too,but Soolsma gone is just another proof that Mariner is not the right man for this job,if he can't find a spot for Soolsma but gives Dunfield to start what can we excpect for next year if he and Anslemi are still around,more Dunfields and less skilled players?

Lets hope this is not Preki part 2.

jazzy
06-24-2012, 05:57 PM
Winter wanted his players to play it short ALL THE TIME. That was getting TFC into a heap of trouble in the defence over and over again earlier this season AND last season. I don't blame Mariner for telling his players "if in trouble kick it long". That's extremely sensible if you ask me!

Yesterday NE changed their shape, I saw it about ten minutes into the second half, and it changed the game. You have to remember that there are TWO teams playing and TWO teams and managers dictating the play. The shuffle in NE's pack meant that they overloaded TFC in defence (their attack) and the young TFC defenders just couldn't cope. That's why I'm argueing that a more experience defender would be extremely useful in that type of situation.

so then the more experienced defender can stand back with the rest of them for the final 45 mins,...continuously kicking the ball back the opponents ...anyone can do that.....it's the coaches failure to react to NE's changed tactics ....AND his ridiculous substitutions ,... his mismanagement of players is beyond believe....if ruining tfc even more, is your idea of success, then maybe you've found your coach.....are you Anselmi by any chance?

Chris Wren
06-24-2012, 06:25 PM
If Soolsma is released will you be in support of that?

No, I like Soolsma. Why do you ask if I would support that?

jazzy
06-24-2012, 06:25 PM
I don't know if I'm a Mariner fan, but I'll give him to the end of the year to see what he can do.

I too am baffled by the support Winter is getting. Just saying that you're playing a system doesn't make it so. I could say my shitbox car is a Cadillac, but that doesn't make it true either.

we all saw how the english system was lacking today against italy,...passing/attack anyone???, and I don't understand how if one feels Mariner is wrong for the job , it means one supports Winter??.....but the 2 final halfs of the last two games were horrendous football,...funny saw that today with england also,...stiil how do you reconcile that winter could only use the players mariner got for him......and was rumoured to have no upper mgmy support...then amazingly winter's is fired and his job joyfully taken over by Mariner..........as a man I respect winter....., he tried tactics that poorer players could never manage....and found out the hard way,....we don't have the talent for his style and we definitely didn't have the mgr to support winter....more importantly I am very afraid that the tfc era is changing , for the worse , forever,...I sincerely hope not ...that my friend is my and many other supports real fear...cause we love the GAME..........ps just watched portland and seattle......are we in the same league?,...pure excitement...............

Canary10
06-24-2012, 06:34 PM
No, I like Soolsma. Why do you ask if I would support that?

That's what Denime's "insider knowledge" was about. I was just curious whether, if he's right, you support the move.

ryan
06-24-2012, 06:39 PM
Again, what was the attractive soccer that I didn't see? This year we scored 8 goals in league play while conceding 21, how is that attractive play? It was ugly most games. We wanted to play attractive soccer, but we didn't.

The problem when you get into these arguments is illustrated here. You define attractive football in terms of scoring, when that's not really what is meant. Then disregard anything that isn't proven via a trial, jury and 3 exhibits of evidence, which then apparently gives you grounds to claim people are unreasonable and illogical.

The same rumours suggested here have been openly commented on by media and analysts of the game, but I guess everyone is just full of shit until you see it in writing yourself.

narduch
06-24-2012, 06:48 PM
We usually weren't playing attractive soccer under Winter though.

denime
06-24-2012, 07:00 PM
You are right, 2 points is less than 3. It's unfortunate it took Winter 10 games to get those 3 points. We have results in 2 out of 3 games with Mariner, but yes, one win is more points.

Your ignorant comments about Mariner and his drinking discredit you. It's clear you'll just say anything to try and defend your view point. Are you actually trying to say that Winter has no responsibility for the personnel on this team? That's just nonsensical.

Once again we have the typical inside knowledge that can't be argued. You know somebody who knows somebody. Right.

I can't debate someone who doesn't use logic. You seem to have a personal beef with Mariner, have fun with that.


All you have to do is look at Mariners face to know he is a drinker,and you know when someone from Boston College tells you from the time he was in NER all he was good for was having a pint with,and than you hear it here from totally different person that dealt with him in last 18 months for me that is enough to get the picture,no need to go into details,he likes to drink no big deal.

As far personal beef,yes I do have,I don't like when people look me in the eyes and lie to me,he lied to me and 100 plus parents and academy players 4 months ago.

I asked him in front of everyone,what will happen with academy once Winter is gone,(month or 3 years for now)and we hire 442 coach and kids are learning 433 what then,Rongen did not want to answer that he asked Mariner who represented FO as Players Development Manager,and guess what Mariner LIED to all of us by answering that question how TFC will ONLY hire a Head coach who can/will coach and play 433 because this is the TFC philosophy and they will stick with it.

Well, 4 months later,Mariner is head coach forcing 442boot and getting rid of one of the most skilled players in our team,now you tell me would you like to have a vessel like that leading your team,who is turning upside down club philosophy and everything what was build in last 18 months just in order to satisfy his sugar daddy Ansemli so they can sell more ST next year/

I definitely don't,however I do wish him to have success with TFC for the sake of all TFC fans who are suffering for so long,as far Mariner and Anslemi goes as persons they both can go f...themself !!

ANSLEMI GTFO !!

TFC07
06-24-2012, 07:02 PM
From what I heard,TFC is working with MLS on releasing the Winter's boy Soolsma and Mariner's bust up signup Aceval.

Aceval gone,I can live with that ,I think idiot who brought him here should go too,but Soolsma gone is just another proof that Mariner is not the right man for this job,if he can't find a spot for Soolsma but gives Dunfield to start what can we excpect for next year if he and Anslemi are still around,more Dunfields and less skilled players?

Soolsma going to get released? He's was probably our best player this season so far. Unless TFC getting rid of him to sign a better international player, then I will truly want Mariner gone as long with Tommy Boy.

Chris Wren
06-24-2012, 07:16 PM
The problem when you get into these arguments is illustrated here. You define attractive football in terms of scoring, when that's not really what is meant. Then disregard anything that isn't proven via a trial, jury and 3 exhibits of evidence, which then apparently gives you grounds to claim people are unreasonable and illogical.

The same rumours suggested here have been openly commented on by media and analysts of the game, but I guess everyone is just full of shit until you see it in writing yourself.

No, I watched the games. I didn't see attractive football despite being told we were playing it. When you look at the numbers, it backs it up. What was attractive about it, I don't get it? I saw ugly play more often than not. I saw a defense in shambles and no defined roles for anyone. It was a mess. We could hardly string 5 passes together. I think it's illogical and unreasonable to tell me we were playing attractive soccer when I was watching a historically bad team.

I'm not denying any rumours. What rumour are you referring to? Denime claims that Mariner was sabotaging negotiations with players that Winter wanted. This is what he claims. I'm just supposed to believe that? It's just the same old song, I know somebody who told me something. That may work for you, but not for me. Even if somebody did tell him something, I just don't accept every off the record statement as fact. In my experience people often spin a story to better reflect their view of it.

tfc2008
06-24-2012, 07:17 PM
Maybe we have to stand up before it go to far

tfc2008
06-24-2012, 07:19 PM
We usually weren't playing attractive soccer under Winter though.


No now we play attractive soccer hahaha

Chris Wren
06-24-2012, 07:23 PM
That's what Denime's "insider knowledge" was about. I was just curious whether, if he's right, you support the move.


I don't know if that's insider knowledge. It seems like many are speculating the same thing. His being right or wrong has nothing to do with whether or not I would support the decision.

I think Soolsma is a fairly solid player. I don't know why he hasn't played more in his time with TFC.

cmonyoureds
06-24-2012, 07:24 PM
He went over to check on a kid that got hit with a ball and hurt. He was going to give up his jersey. Class act.

Just keeps getting a better and better reputation in my books! Good on ya Danny.

Canary10
06-24-2012, 07:43 PM
I don't know if that's insider knowledge. It seems like many are speculating the same thing. His being right or wrong has nothing to do with whether or not I would support the decision.

I think Soolsma is a fairly solid player. I don't know why he hasn't played more in his time with TFC.

I just wanted to know if you supported it. So if/when it happens I can use that to turn you into a fellow Mariner hater...:)

tiberius
06-24-2012, 07:46 PM
I think Mariner is a dead man walking. I realize its only been three games and some people want to give him more time (which he is going to get regardless for now), but he looks to be way out of his depth.

I can't help but think he was Anselmi's last hail mary pass...

Mariner is an Anselmi hail mary pass, but not his last... Brennan will be Anselmi's last Hail Mary...