TFC players jailed for Public Intoxication and Suspended by TFC

[TOBOR !]

Toronto FC Signs Danish Star (http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2011/10/toronto-fc-signs-danish-star)

looks like he's the guy behind all the questionable marketing decisions of late...

[ManUtd4ever]

toronto
football
convicts

[Couchy81]

I wouldn't put my money on any of the details in the papers, they get that stuff wrong all the time. I'm thinking it was more likely there was an altercation, they got mouthy when Police intervened, and since they had a few beers (I highly doubt they were all tanked) the Cops booked them for whatever they could because first of all its TEXAS and second of all cops power trip all the time.

In any case who cares, worst team in the league, worst owners in North America, if you are seriously offended stop spending money on this shit until they clean house and start over.

[C.Ronaldo]

i agree, houston police probably blew this out of proportion.
I bet he didnt even run, he probably just told the cops to F off and walked off.

still stupid situation to be in, but not impossible to imagine

[Oldtimer]

Toronto FC Signs Danish Star (http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2011/10/toronto-fc-signs-danish-star)

looks like he's the guy behind all the questionable marketing decisions of late...

love his quote:



I can only imagine what our city will be like when we lift MLS Cup.”

I think it's not only the players who have been drinking. :) :drinking:

[Red CB Toronto]

The Toronto Star has reported Luis's father died Saturday, which might suggest some of the cause behind this with a few too many drinks being consumed.

[Dv23]

Shit man, that's harsh. Poor Luis.

[Auzzy]

^ Yup.

https://twitter.com/dgtorstar 25 minutes ago:


Daniel Girard ‏@dgtorstar
(https://twitter.com/dgtorstar)Doing follow to ‪#TFC‬ (https://twitter.com/search/%23TFC) Houston mess. Have been told Luis Silva's dad died Saturday am in Calif and Luis chose to stay with club for road trip.

Ugh...

[Huyton]

Can the club sink any lower? Someone tell me we have hit the bottom please.

Having hit bottom, TFC starts digging...

http://i.thestar.com/images/a1/31/dd52ef2e41d9a87cb94385c7f58f.jpeg

[Blizzard]

Who the fuck is that?

http://www.torontofc.ca/sites/toronto/files/imagecache/620x350/image_nodes/2011/10/Preben1.JPG

[ryan]

They could have very well been out drinking in memory of his pops, of course that'll twist you up a bit emotionally, and would react in a disagreeable fashion.

Would explain things.

[__wowza]

i agree, houston police probably blew this out of proportion.
I bet he didnt even run, he probably just told the cops to F off and walked off.

still stupid situation to be in, but not impossible to imagine

this, i completely forgot the fact (im sure most of us are/were pretty riled up). paper's dont necessarily get all the facts straight. i'd provide a personal anecdote but it'd be off topic.

i imagine if he was placed under arrest and fled on foot, then that would constitute resisting arrest and a slew of other charges. certainly no slap on the wrist. he may have just been told he was under arrest and drunkenly mentioned that they wouldn't get any further trouble and that he was leaving. not justifying the original behaviour, but you never know.

[Blizzard]

The Toronto Star has reported Luis's father died Saturday, which might suggest some of the cause behind this with a few too many drinks being consumed.

Damn. :(

[__wowza]

^ Yup.

https://twitter.com/dgtorstar 25 minutes ago:



Ugh...

awwwh fuck. i dont know what's worse:

- the fact that his father passed away.
- the fact that this shit happened while he was dealing with it.
- the fact that he stayed on the road or
- the fact that this news had to break like this.


either way, arrested or not, let's try to remember that this guy lost his dad at the age of 23.

[Oldtimer]

... puts a totally different spin on things. May explain why they haven't been suspended.

[McBrace]

Seems odd that you would stay with your team on a road trip when your father dies. Especially when you're on a 1 - 10 team and not a regular starter..

[Lumpy]

Seems odd that you would stay with your team on a road trip when your father dies. Especially when you're on a 1 - 10 team and not a regular starter..

Grief is a private thing. Each person handles it differently. I doubt he looked at the standings before he made a decision to stay.

[Toronto]

... puts a totally different spin on things. May explain why they haven't been suspended.

Still unprofessional. Hold on. I'm holding these guys to a professional standard when in fact they're really a semi-pro outfit. But with 20,000 fans.

[Whoop]

Sounds like they keep JDG around to bail guys out.

[Red I]

Still unprofessional. Hold on. I'm holding these guys to a professional standard when in fact they're really a semi-pro outfit. But with 20,000 fans.

... Too soon, buddy

[Code Red]

Not sure of his relationship with his dad but it was his uncle who attended the draft with him last year. Still, your dad is your dad and I'm sure the news had a big effect on him. This does indeed put a different spin on things.

[brad]

Not sure of his relationship with his dad but it was his uncle who attended the draft with him last year. Still, your dad is your dad and I'm sure the news had a big effect on him. This does indeed put a different spin on things.

Very close - I think. I recall some re-tweets from his dad around his debut that implied it.

[flamehawk]

Still unprofessional. Hold on. I'm holding these guys to a professional standard when in fact they're really a semi-pro outfit. But with 20,000 fans.

Give the guy a break. A 23 year old lost a close relation, I am willing to see it in that context

[denime]

The Toronto Star has reported Luis's father died Saturday, which might suggest some of the cause behind this with a few too many drinks being consumed.


... puts a totally different spin on things. May explain why they haven't been suspended.

True,and as far I'm concern they should not be suspended.

Kid needed to went out,got drunk, shit happens,move on.

[denime]

The Toronto Star has reported Luis's father died Saturday, which might suggest some of the cause behind this with a few too many drinks being consumed.


Still unprofessional. Hold on. I'm holding these guys to a professional standard when in fact they're really a semi-pro outfit. But with 20,000 fans.

WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU?

Put yourself in his situation,his father died and decided to stay with team instead to go back home for funeral,and you are calling him unprofessional.

[Richard]

Well my only complaint now is the choice of club/bar.

[Auzzy]

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/sports/soccer/toronto-fc-looks-to-take-focus-off-police-blotter-and-deliver-on-the-pitch-159625375.html



Word around the club was that Mariner, Toronto's former director of player development, was going to grant the players more freedom than under Aron Winter's reign as coach. That meant more time for the players, fewer team meals and less rigid dress codes.

While the arrested players have not had a chance to tell their side of the story, making the police blotter after yet another loss is hardly the start Mariner will have wanted to his tenure as Toronto's seventh coach in six seasons.

[Toronto_Bhoy]

Whilst the dust is still to settle on this, it doesn't alter the end result. Laws were broken…blah, blah, blah.

Here's a rookie who, sadly, looses a family member and he winds up shitfaced and subsequently arrested.

Where's the new management in this? Head coach? Team leader? Teammates?

I now find this story even more disturbing in light of the latest circumstances.

How many of you on the board would take a buddy to a place like "EscoBar 4" 24 hours after the death of his father?

[OgtheDim]

...

How many of you on the board would take a buddy to a place like "EscoBar 4" 24 hours after the death of his father?


I'd put up my hand to that one.

Its not a strip joint. Its a well known club in a town where they are away from home.

The guy wants a beer, you take him somewhere.

[Gringo Starr]

In addition to being a good thread for laughs I now also know who is responsible for my luke warm overpriced Carlsberg. Fire Ganzhorn!

Feel bad for Silva, tough week for the kid, maybe the team will rally round this incident...

[ag futbol]

^ Yeah, well I mean we all joke and the timing sucks for TFC, but I could not pass on any blame to the players on this one without hearing some solid evidence.

[tiberius]

Whilst the dust is still to settle on this, it doesn't alter the end result. Laws were broken…blah, blah, blah.

Here's a rookie who, sadly, looses a family member and he winds up shitfaced and subsequently arrested.

Where's the new management in this? Head coach? Team leader? Teammates?

I now find this story even more disturbing in light of the latest circumstances.

How many of you on the board would take a buddy to a place like "EscoBar 4" 24 hours after the death of his father?

Please, this righteous stuff is really hard to take - quit looking for someone to blame. As far as anyone knows NO LAWS WERE BROKEN!!! Nothing, until proven in court. Where do you get off convicting our players??? For all you know, these cops should be charged with racism, obstruction of justice, fabrication of sworn statements, conspiracy, etc. etc. You know jack-shit. Even if they plead out doesn't mean broke any laws... Go read what happened to the Houston players - you think they made that shit up? Unlikely. Perhaps you think Rodney King made everything up too... man.

My hand is up - if anything the only question would be what kind of teammate are you, not to take him out? EscoBar is a high end place - you want them to take him to some skid-row joint? I suppose getting knifed or killed is better than a trumped up arrest charge? We do not even know who was intoxicated, or even drinking, who instigated what. Did the team even practice on Monday? What time? Shit happened that evening, but just stop with the righteous conviction...

[narduch]

I think it is a valid argument to question whether professional athletes should be out partying late into the night days before a game.

That has nothing to do with the morality of it and everything to do with how serious you take your profession. The partying can be saved for the off-season. Not while the team is in the midst of a shit load of games in the next few weeks.

[ensco]

I think it is a valid argument to question whether professional athletes should be out partying late into the night days before a game.

That has nothing to do with the morality of it and everything to do with how serious you take your profession. The partying can be saved for the off-season. Not while the team is in the midst of a shit load of games in the next few weeks.

You are making assumptions about causality that aren't knowable. It's different for everyone. I could easily make the case that Tiger Woods' performance has badly declined because he hasn't been partying the night before tournaments.

I would agree that, in the long run, partying shortens your career (not always, there was George Best!). But that again is between the athlete and his own conscience.

[tfcleeds]

I'd put up my hand to that one.

Its not a strip joint. Its a well known club in a town where they are away from home.

The guy wants a beer, you take him somewhere.

I would have figured a nice quiet pub would suffice in a case like that, but that's besides the point.

[Carts]

I would have figured a nice quiet pub would suffice in a case like that, but that's besides the point.

You're thinking in your age group :rolleyes:
At his age, he wants a club...
Yes, even to drink away the thought of someone extremely close passing...

[Huyton]

Would it be possible to get a large-ish banner made in time? Something like "Luis Silva...our condolences - RPB".

Sunday was Fathers Day, as well.

Some slack needs to be cut.

[tfcleeds]

You're thinking in your age group :rolleyes:
At his age, he wants a club...
Yes, even to drink away the thought of someone extremely close passing...

Hey! Just what are you implying with that comment?! I'm a young 'un!

[ManUtd4ever]

In light of all the information that has been made public thus far, I hope TFC and MLS go easy on them.

[KGH]

Looks like the 3 of them have been sent home. My guess is Aceval and Soolsma end up let go and Silva given a suspension. Convenient right at the window to free up some cap room.

[brad]

Looks like the 3 of them have been sent home. My guess is Aceval and Soolsma end up let go and Silva given a suspension. Convenient right at the window to free up some cap room.

Would it free up cap space?

[Auzzy]

Mariner speaks to the issue:

http://www.torontofc.ca/video/2012/06/19/paul-mariner-june-19-2012 (http://www.torontofc.ca/video/2012/06/19/paul-mariner-june-19-2012)


Obviously nobody has been let go at this point. The three players are not with the team at this moment, likely sent back to Toronto, while the league office and the player's union investigate the situation. The players are also giving their side of the story. Mariner can't say anything more while the investigation in ongoing.

Likely they're discussing exactly what happened, as well as possible sanctions (length of suspension etc).

Other's (e.g., Prizby) have suggested that these players contracts are not guaranteed under the CBA as they have not been in the league for a long time, i.e., perhaps they could be released (and their salary cap hit freed up). Not sure if that's true -- e.g., maybe individual contracts can have further guarantees. In any case, who knows if Mariner wants to dump any of these guys, it's just speculation at this point. We shall see.

[jabbronies]

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/sports/soccer/toronto-fc-looks-to-take-focus-off-police-blotter-and-deliver-on-the-pitch-159625375.html

I'd love to know the details of this and how lax Mariner is getting with the players.

[denime]

Please, this righteous stuff is really hard to take - quit looking for someone to blame. As far as anyone knows NO LAWS WERE BROKEN!!! Nothing, until proven in court. Where do you get off convicting our players??? For all you know, these cops should be charged with racism, obstruction of justice, fabrication of sworn statements, conspiracy, etc. etc. You know jack-shit. Even if they plead out doesn't mean broke any laws... Go read what happened to the Houston players - you think they made that shit up? Unlikely. Perhaps you think Rodney King made everything up too... man.

My hand is up - if anything the only question would be what kind of teammate are you, not to take him out? EscoBar is a high end place - you want them to take him to some skid-row joint? I suppose getting knifed or killed is better than a trumped up arrest charge? We do not even know who was intoxicated, or even drinking, who instigated what. Did the team even practice on Monday? What time? Shit happened that evening, but just stop with the righteous conviction...

While I agree with your post,I would like to warn you to argue the opinion and without calling out user/poster.

What bothers me is where the fook was TFC in all of that?

Why did not they buy the airplane ticket and sent Silva home for few days,who gives a damn if he wants to stay with team,fathers funeral is more important than few minutes for TFC,if we are depending on Silva's playing time,then we are fooked more then we think.
It is Mariners and TFC FO responsibility to take care of their players in situations like this,it's a shock and decision making for him is not an easy task right now, and of course as rookie he wants to stay with club, he is fighting for playing time.

As someone who lost father and his funeral at the age of 19, I'm very much sure how he feels and what is going trough his head,what was a "right" decision(stay with team instead go to funeral)yesterday,looks like huge fuckup today,fuckup that he might regret for the rest of his life,this is why I'm pissed on TFC management and their people skills.

[Auzzy]

Hmmm, RPB forum quoted in this new article:

http://www.thestar.com/sports/soccer/mls/torontofc/article/1213940--toronto-fc-player-arrests-latest-embarrassment-in-sad-sack-season

[DaBandit]

Hmmm, RPB forum quoted in this new article:

http://www.thestar.com/sports/soccer/mls/torontofc/article/1213940--toronto-fc-player-arrests-latest-embarrassment-in-sad-sack-season

Hey they quoted one of my posts without my authorization, where are my royalties.. Lol

PS. My deepest condolences to Luis and his family.

PSS. Heard another good one this morning. TFC now has the same number of players arrested as they have points for the season, 3.. Bada bing... Too soon?

[ag futbol]

this is why I'm pissed on TFC management and their people skills.
I think we're about to learn a lot about how TFC operates. Even if they are guilty as it gets, I don't think they've done anything that warrants any more than a one or two game suspension.

Is management going to take action that tries to send some sort of message to the fan base? That'd be the wrong decisions IMO, and it really only serves as a cover for their own shortcomings. Aceval and Soolsma aren't likely to be with TFC for much longer with Mariner in charge, at least wrap things up quietly and show some class.


Hmmm, RPB forum quoted in this new article:

http://www.thestar.com/sports/soccer/mls/torontofc/article/1213940--toronto-fc-player-arrests-latest-embarrassment-in-sad-sack-season
"journalism" at it's finest.

[mowe]

I needed to quote this from the Star article:

Gwendolyn Goins, a spokesperson for the Municipal Courts Department in Houston, said in an email that “Julian B. Guzman,” no doubt a typo for midfielder Julian de Guzman, posted $267 (all figures U.S.) bail for each of his teammates.

[Auzzy]

Much more detail from the interview here: http://metronews.ca/sports/269776/toronto-fc-sends-arrested-players-home/


“Everybody’s got the respective reports, eyewitness reports and so on and so forth,” said Mariner. “It’s up to the league and the CBA (collective bargaining agreement) to do a thorough investigation and then we’ll find out what we need to do.”


“I think it doesn’t matter whether it’s basketball, ice hockey or whatever sport,” said Mariner, a former England international. “I’ve been a professional athlete myself and you’re held to a higher level of order because you’re in the spotlight and you’re living in a privileged position of being a so-called elite athlete.

“But sometimes people make poor choices and we’ve got to get to the bottom of it. I don’t want to jump to any conclusion myself but obviously there was something going on because the police were involved. So I just took the action that I did so that we could just concentrate on something that was going on (Wednesday) night at 8 o’clock.”

Mariner said there was no curfew Sunday because it was a day off.

“I just told the players about the following day (of training). I just thought that they would respond to that. And most of them did. But it looks like we had — well, I’m not going to use the words that just came into my mind, but some people chose not to be on their best behaviour, let’s put it that way.”

[Auzzy]

So they didn't break any team curfew, but it looks like they will still get the book thrown at them.

Ugh, the whole escapade and the whole team and the coach and the whole organization just make me sick.

[jabbronies]

Jullian to the rescue!

[jabbronies]

"journalism" at it's finest.

Not the first time it's happened. It's an easy way to get a "fans" reaction without actually going on the street to find one that suites the story being written.

[denime]

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/sports/soccer/toronto-fc-looks-to-take-focus-off-police-blotter-and-deliver-on-the-pitch-159625375.html

Word around the club was that Mariner, Toronto's former director of player development, was going to grant the players more freedom than under Aron Winter's reign as coach. That meant more time for the players, fewer team meals and less rigid dress codes.

Winter was teaching them how to be professionals ,there is nothing wrong with that,why change.Mariner is whoring with his own players,hoping they will give some extra effort and play for him,and we all know results of easy going with players.

[jabbronies]

Winter was teaching them how to be professionals ,there is nothing wrong with that,why change.Mariner is whoring with his own players,hoping they will give some extra effort and play for him,and we all know results of easy going with players.

Agreed. I'm not sure about the extent of what Winter did and what Mariner is undoing, but this is suppose to be a professional club. As I said before, I'd love to see what was undone.

[RedRum]

Sending the trio home - especially Silva is a huge mistake by Mariner or whatever FO hack made that call. 1-9-0, "worst team in the world" - the season is a clusterfuck of monumental proportions already. As someone posted earlier, start all 3. Nothing to lose, everything to gain morale-wise.

Thought that has not been posted in this thread yet as best I can surmise. What are the chances that more TFC players were in the club as well that evening but didn't get popped? I think quite likely. I'd start everyone in attendance and milk the bee in the bonnet for all it's worth.

Fuck you TFC for sending Silva home after he opted to stay with the team instead of attending his dad's funeral. Classless, on top of your obvious incompetence.

[Alonso]

WTF IS WRONG WITH YOU?

Put yourself in his situation,his father died and decided to stay with team instead to go back home for funeral,and you are calling him unprofessional.

What the fuck is wrong with you?!? You're supposed to be a Moderator.

As far as I can tell the job description doesn't include berating posters for their honest opinion.

[ag futbol]

Agreed. I'm not sure about the extent of what Winter did and what Mariner is undoing, but this is suppose to be a professional club. As I said before, I'd love to see what was undone.
I don't see anything about that either way. Some guys will offer players more flexibility, some will offer less.

MLS being a scrappy league and all, things work a little differently. I'd guess Mariner is a little closer to league standard with his policies.

[Alonso]

What a fucking prick. Sack this mans ass back to South America .

I think this type of reaction is a bit much really...

These guys don't even look proper drunk in these photos. I call bullshit. This was a few cops that got their knickers in a knot and decided to "lay down the law" with the usual "respect my a-tor-ity!" shit that some of them like to pull.

These guys were cutting loose a bit and I don't see anything wrong with that.

Edit: all the more so since I found out that Silva lost his father...

[Auzzy]

Winter was teaching them how to be professionals ,there is nothing wrong with that,why change.Mariner is whoring with his own players,hoping they will give some extra effort and play for him,and we all know results of easy going with players.

Agreed, I really liked that there was less of the soap opera drama over the past 1 1/2 years, which previously was so prevalent in TFC. I wasn't happy with everything that Winter did & especially the league results, but that had been a positive change. I don't know why Mariner had to change that.

[tiberius]

While I agree with your post,I would like to warn you to argue the opinion and without calling out user/poster.

What bothers me is where the fook was TFC in all of that?

Why did not they buy the airplane ticket and sent Silva home for few days,who gives a damn if he wants to stay with team,fathers funeral is more important than few minutes for TFC,if we are depending on Silva's playing time,then we are fooked more then we think.
It is Mariners and TFC FO responsibility to take care of their players in situations like this,it's a shock and decision making for him is not an easy task right now, and of course as rookie he wants to stay with club, he is fighting for playing time.

As someone who lost father and his funeral at the age of 19, I'm very much sure how he feels and what is going trough his head,what was a "right" decision(stay with team instead go to funeral)yesterday,looks like huge fuckup today,fuckup that he might regret for the rest of his life,this is why I'm pissed on TFC management and their people skills.

I agree with you on how Mariner/FO should have approached it, recognizing that Silva's head would have been in a muddle. The only question is if Mariner knew of the situation - he might not have known - Sunday was a day off for the players...

[tiberius]

Sending the trio home - especially Silva is a huge mistake by Mariner or whatever FO hack made that call. 1-9-0, "worst team in the world" - the season is a clusterfuck of monumental proportions already. As someone posted earlier, start all 3. Nothing to lose, everything to gain morale-wise.

Thought that has not been posted in this thread yet as best I can surmise. What are the chances that more TFC players were in the club as well that evening but didn't get popped? I think quite likely. I'd start everyone in attendance and milk the bee in the bonnet for all it's worth.

Fuck you TFC for sending Silva home after he opted to stay with the team instead of attending his dad's funeral. Classless, on top of your obvious incompetence.

If they have sent the three home, they really did miss an opportunity to show grace under fire and at the same time pull the team together. Mariner could have rallied the team around Luis - saying fuck Houston PD, fuck the press, fuck what MLS FO is going to do - it is us against the world. A monumental Toronto FC Front Office clusterfuck - Mariner covering his ass instead of managing the team. Bravo Mariner for sticking up for the players - Bravo! What a dweeb. I no longer need to see a second game to know that Mariner is the wrong kinda coach we need for this team.

[Doucet3]

http://www.torontosun.com/2012/06/19/bar-brawlin-tfc-trio-suspended-by-team

All three suspended.

Personally I'm only disappointed to see Sools and silva out, Sools is a good winger that we could use in this 2 game in 4 day stretch.

Whats this mean for our trio

I think this could be our "out" for aceval, Silva and Soolsma hopefully will get it together wake up a bit and get playing regularly again
:drinking:

[Petor]

This would probably never happen in Canada, and if it did we could get Ricky to defend them.
I know that I'm making light of the situation, but after what we have been through this season we just have to laugh then keep on going.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sW4JRSzPJQo

[tfcleeds]

Aceval can be sent back on the first flight to Chile for all I care...what a disastrous signing that's been.

[Oldtimer]

Jullian to the rescue!

I worked it out, if you divide $1.9 million by his minutes of playing time, the bail money equals about 2 minutes of playing time. :D

In other words, spare change found under the seat cushions of his exotic car.

[Oldtimer]

fuck what MLS FO is going to do - it is us against the world.

You don't stand up to the FO in this league, you politely request. They own all of the players (except for the DPs), all of the intellectual rights, and a majority of the voting rights in your club. You have no choice but to do what they say.

I also don't blame Mariner for refusing to take a stand one way or the other. It's not like he has all of the facts.

[ensco]

Still not enough info available to judge what happened, or how TFC is handling it.

[Phil]

Still not enough info available to judge what happened, or how TFC is handling it.

I would have to agree. We have some info but all of us are filling in a lot of gaps with our own emotion.

[flamehawk]

If they have sent the three home, they really did miss an opportunity to show grace under fire and at the same time pull the team together. Mariner could have rallied the team around Luis - saying fuck Houston PD, fuck the press, fuck what MLS FO is going to do - it is us against the world. A monumental Toronto FC Front Office clusterfuck - Mariner covering his ass instead of managing the team. Bravo Mariner for sticking up for the players - Bravo! What a dweeb. I no longer need to see a second game to know that Mariner is the wrong kinda coach we need for this team.

Agree completely. What a shame, can this club get anything right?

[tfcmanu]

http://metronews.ca/sports/269776/toronto-fc-sends-arrested-players-home/

Toronto FC sends arrested players home
Three Toronto FC players arrested for public intoxication in Houston have been sent home.

[ryan]

Hey they quoted one of my posts without my authorization, where are my royalties.. Lol

PS. My deepest condolences to Luis and his family.

PSS. Heard another good one this morning. TFC now has the same number of players arrested as they have points for the season, 3.. Bada bing... Too soon?

I was the first quote. LOL

[CoachGT]

Soolsma is coming back from an injury and may not be in game shape. Aceval is not likely to see much playing time. Silva is young enough and would appear to have been following two more experienced players. At least it looks like they stood up for each other, even if it wasn't the smartest thing to do.

I'm not overly concerned about it from a personnel standpoint, but the optics are poor and we really don't know much about the circumstances. If this room is as tight as some of the players have seemed to indicate, I'd suspect the players in the room will deal with this more effectively than any suspension could.

I'm still aware of how we (RPB) were painted with the brush of poor behaviour in Columbus and I'm willing to give the players at least the same benefit of the doubt that we should have had in that situation.

[ryan]

We're Red!
We're White!
We're getting drunk tonight!
TFC! TFC!


It's quite catchy, try it!

[Phil]

Soolsma is coming back from an injury and may not be in game shape. Aceval is not likely to see much playing time. Silva is young enough and would appear to have been following two more experienced players. At least it looks like they stood up for each other, even if it wasn't the smartest thing to do.

I'm not overly concerned about it from a personnel standpoint, but the optics are poor and we really don't know much about the circumstances. If this room is as tight as some of the players have seemed to indicate, I'd suspect the players in the room will deal with this more effectively than any suspension could.

I'm still aware of how we (RPB) were painted with the brush of poor behaviour in Columbus and I'm willing to give the players at least the same benefit of the doubt that we should have had in that situation.

This is a VERY good point.

[__wowza]

We're Red!
We're White!
We're getting drunk tonight!
TFC! TFC!


It's quite catchy, try it!

im down!

[Phil]

Sending the trio home - especially Silva is a huge mistake by Mariner or whatever FO hack made that call. 1-9-0, "worst team in the world" - the season is a clusterfuck of monumental proportions already. As someone posted earlier, start all 3. Nothing to lose, everything to gain morale-wise.

Thought that has not been posted in this thread yet as best I can surmise. What are the chances that more TFC players were in the club as well that evening but didn't get popped? I think quite likely. I'd start everyone in attendance and milk the bee in the bonnet for all it's worth.

Fuck you TFC for sending Silva home after he opted to stay with the team instead of attending his dad's funeral. Classless, on top of your obvious incompetence.

Hang on, before you get too riled up. When I read the reasons posted for sending the players home, it seems the club has to comply with the CBA, players union and the MLS.

As much as the team really wants these guys it seems they are forced to take this action.

[Canary10]

Apparently we now have 3 subs for the game tonight.

[Toronto_Bhoy]

While I agree with your post,I would like to warn you to argue the opinion and without calling out user/poster.

What bothers me is where the fook was TFC in all of that?



No offence taken but I think Tiberius misunderstood my point.

Like I said charges/arrests were laid..blah...blah...blah. They may be dropped at a later date but they were laid nonetheless and the ensuing shit storm is now reality.

But Denime has nailed it, where was the team leadership? The boy's father dies and the whole thing ends like this? There wasn't anyone in management or on the team that thought "let's keep an eye for the kid"?

The term "professional/professionalism" has been knocked about is this thread, in particular reference to the players. In light of the (sad) personal side of this story, I think the "TFC management" failed even more.

[TOBOR !]

None of this goes down this way with Winter in charge.

[ManUtd4ever]

None of this goes down this way with Winter in charge.

How can you make such a definitive statement?

Would Luis Silva's father (RIP) have lived beyond this past weekend if Winter wasn't fired?

Did Winter impose a strict curfew on days off?

Jesus, the venom being spewed in Paul Mariner's direction is downright pathetic around here. It's not his fault that the organization has beaten some of us down to the point where cynicism supercedes objectivity.

[PookyP]

Can't wait for Anselmi to act all moral and drive these three prospects out of town (Why am I fondly remembering the treatment DeRo got). I can take that MLSE suits don't know their arse from their elbow when to comes to soccer, but they are incompetent at Public Relations, warm and fuzzies with their supporters and anything other than return on investment. TFC=R.I.P till Bell/Rogers #FireAnselmi

[johntv]

Can't wait for Anselmi to act all moral and drive these three prospects out of town (Why am I fondly remembering the treatment DeRo got). I can take that MLSE suits don't know their arse from their elbow when to comes to soccer, but they are incompetent at Public Relations, warm and fuzzies with their supporters and anything other than return on investment. TFC=R.I.P till Bell/Rogers #FireAnselmi

Don't forget that soccer is still a game that the cops are brainwashed in believing it is a foreign and even dangerous sport.They will overeact and protect the US. from these foreigners.

[CoachGT]

How can you make such a definitive statement?

Would Luis Silva's father (RIP) have lived beyond this past weekend if Winter wasn't fired?

Did Winter impose a strict curfew on days off?

Jesus, the venom being spewed in Paul Mariner's direction is downright pathetic around here. It's not his fault that the organization has beaten some of us down to the point where cynicism supercedes objectivity.

Some of the stuff we're seeing now suggests that Mariner did away with the curfew and dress codes that Winter had put into place. Most teams do have curfews even on non-game days, and I've worked with coaches that have checked up on every individual player.

I'd suspect that curfews now come back into the equation while the team is on the road.

[TOBOR !]

How can you make such a definitive statement?

Did Winter impose a strict curfew on days off?


Down Boy... perhaps I should've said "it is my belief that none of this goes down etc.".

The point is that Winter brought class to the club and .. wait... I think that Winter brought class to the club and even a certain level of respect and professionalism.

I doubt that this would have happened on his watch.


Would Luis Silva's father (RIP) have lived beyond this past weekend if Winter wasn't fired?

Possibly the stupidest thing I've ever read on these boards.


Jesus, the venom being spewed in Paul Mariner's direction is downright pathetic around here. It's not his fault that the organization has beaten some of us down to the point where cynicism supercedes objectivity.

I think you've overstated it a bit there. I think Mariner has a more relaxed approach. He might have to tighten the reins a bit.

[Pigfynn]

This would probably never happen in Canada, and if it did we could get Ricky to defend them.
I know that I'm making light of the situation, but after what we have been through this season we just have to laugh then keep on going.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sW4JRSzPJQo

Holy shit that was funny. Like wow. lol!!!!

[TOBOR !]

Don't forget that soccer is still a game that the cops are brainwashed in believing it is a foreign and even dangerous sport.They will overeact and protect the US. from these foreigners.

YES !

[ManUtd4ever]

Down Boy... perhaps I should've said "it is my belief that none of this goes down etc.".

The point is that Winter brought class to the club and .. wait... I think that Winter brought class to the club and even a certain level of respect and professionalism.

I doubt that this would have happened on his watch.



Possibly the stupidest thing I've ever read on these boards.



I think you've overstated it a bit there. I think Mariner has a more relaxed approach. He might have to tighten the reins a bit.

You're entitled to your opinion, however unjustified it may be in this particular case.

As for my remark regarding Luis Silva, I mentioned it because it seems that the tragic situation he is dealing with may have played a large part in what transpired, regardless of who was in charge at the time.

[ManUtd4ever]

Some of the stuff we're seeing now suggests that Mariner did away with the curfew and dress codes that Winter had put into place. Most teams do have curfews even on non-game days, and I've worked with coaches that have checked up on every individual player.

I'd suspect that curfews now come back into the equation while the team is on the road.

Fair enough, but we still don't have all the facts to reach any definitive conclusions. This could have happened under Winter's watch as well, or anyone else for that matter.

I just think that to blame Mariner either directly or indirectly for what transpired is extremely unfair given the information that is available.

[Redcoe15]

We're Red!
We're White!
We're getting drunk tonight!
RPB! RPB!


Fixed for accuracy. :drinking::drunk:g:D

[TOBOR !]

You're entitled to your opinion, however unjustified it may be in this particular case.

As for my remark regarding Luis Silva, I mentioned it because it seems that the tragic situation he is dealing with may have played a large part in what transpired, regardless of who was in charge at the time.

Sure, but the implication was that if Winter was still in charge Silva may have indeed been with his family (a far more likely circumstance than the one you suggested).

[Brooker]

None of this goes down this way with Winter in charge.

LOL. I stubbed my toe going to the shower today. If Winter was still around it wouldn't have happened. MARINER OUT!

[ManUtd4ever]

Sure, but the implication was that if Winter was still in charge Silva may have indeed been with his family (a far more likely circumstance than the one you suggested).

Listen, I think you are generally one of the most objective posters on this forum. I don't mean any disrespect, but your initial statement was somewhat of an indictment of Mariner without just cause.

As for Silva, was it not his decision to remain with the club? How can we be certain that Winter would have sent him home against his personal wishes?

All I'm saying is that what happened was an unfortunate convergence of circumstances, and to blame current management is to unnecessarily scrutinize Paul Mariner moreso than he already has been after only one game at the helm.

[TOBOR !]

Fair enough, but we still don't have all the facts to reach any definitive conclusions. This could have happened under Winter's watch as well, or anyone else for that matter.

I just think that to blame Mariner either directly or indirectly for what transpired is extremely unfair given the information that is available.

You're mixing up the presence of Mariner with the absence of Winter. They're different things.

Brooker - If Winter was still here it's possible that Silva would have been sent home to be with his family, Soolsma wouldn't have been having a night on the town (that we heard about, anyway), but you probably would still have stubbed your toe.

[TOBOR !]

Listen, I think you are generally one of the most objective posters on this forum. I don't mean any disrespect, but your initial statement was somewhat of an indictment of Mariner without just cause.

As for Silva, was it not his decision to remain with the club? How can we be certain that Winter would have sent him home against his personal wishes?

All I'm saying is that what happened was an unfortunate convergence of circumstances, and to blame current management is to unnecessarily scrutinize Paul Mariner moreso than he already has been after only one game at the helm.

I believe that Winter would have sent Silva home against his wishes. This is not a criticism of Paul Mariner.

[Brooker]

You're mixing up the presence of Mariner with the absence of Winter. They're different things.

Brooker - If Winter was still here it's possible that Silva would have been sent home to be with his family, Soolsma wouldn't have been having a night on the town (that we heard about, anyway), but you probably would still have stubbed your toe.

It's possible Winter could have been arrested, too. :D

[Lucky Strike]

So a Chilean, an American and a Dutchman walk into a bar...

[CoachGT]

Fair enough, but we still don't have all the facts to reach any definitive conclusions. This could have happened under Winter's watch as well, or anyone else for that matter.

I just think that to blame Mariner either directly or indirectly for what transpired is extremely unfair given the information that is available.

Agreed. I don't think this has anything to do with manager, but there is at least a basis for saying that it would have been less likely.

[Abou Sky]

Fixed for accuracy. :drinking::drunk:g:D

So true, I can't believe any TFC supporter is upset at people drinking... IN PUBLIC!

And THEN to top it all off, these boys got rowdy and mouthy?

WON'T SOMEBODY THINK OF THE CHILDREN!?!

Really guys, that describes everyone I know except my son, he is rowdy and mouthy without the beer.

[FreekAce]

So true, I can't believe any TFC supporter is upset at people drinking... IN PUBLIC!

And THEN to top it all off, these boys got rowdy and mouthy?

WON'T SOMEBODY THINK OF THE CHILDREN!?!

Really guys, that describes everyone I know except my son, he is rowdy and mouthy without the beer.

do all those people get a pay cheque for being professional athletes? ;)

[lobo]

So true, I can't believe any TFC supporter is upset at people drinking... IN PUBLIC!

And THEN to top it all off, these boys got rowdy and mouthy?

WON'T SOMEBODY THINK OF THE CHILDREN!?!

Really guys, that describes everyone I know except my son, he is rowdy and mouthy without the beer.


yep. who here has NOT been arrested for being drunk in public? c'mon! or did you run? lol

seriously, on a winning team, these 3 guys would be considered 'colourful' characters .... on a losing team, they are just undisciplined bums

[Abou Sky]

Ok, not ARRESTED, but really man. They were trashed, some shit went down, poor luck.

IMO the only rule they didn't follow was rule #1: "DON'T GET CAUGHT"

[Oldtimer]

Courtesy of U-Sector member huginho, Aceval's version to Chilean radio:

Google's translation:


The version of Aceval

The former defender of Colo Colo, told Punjab Sports that after the incident versions are not as they were released.

"What they said is not true. Obviously we had drunk something, but we were not intoxicated as they said. What happened was that a friend started an argument with a taxi driver and hit him in the car. Then we see that the driver comes with a stick to the expectation of the people. We went for not sticking to my partner and told him it was not for more. Characters who were assaulted in the room was that my partner and no more. It was a great fight as stated in the newspapers and on the news, "he said.

"We were in the car and the cops told me to come down and arrest me. The reason I said because we were drunk and not fight. If it had been for a fight was OK but did not. It was over and they took all three, "said the Chilean.

http://deportes.biobiochile.cl/notas/2012/06/20/miguel-aceval-aclara-detencion-sufrida-en-estados-unidos-tras-incidente-con-taxista.shtml

[ManUtd4ever]

Leave it to google translate to confuse the situation even more, LOL.

In any case, it appears as though the story has been overblown by the media because of the state of disarray of the organization.

[flamehawk]

Did Aceval just publicly admit that Soolsma or Silva hit the cabbie? Any spanish-speakers here? Seems to bring more questions than answers?


Courtesy of U-Sector member huginho, Aceval's version to Chilean radio:

Google's translation:



http://deportes.biobiochile.cl/notas/2012/06/20/miguel-aceval-aclara-detencion-sufrida-en-estados-unidos-tras-incidente-con-taxista.shtml

[sully]

Did Aceval just publicly admit that Soolsma or Silva hit the cabbie? Any spanish-speakers here? Seems to bring more questions than answers?

The Chilean defender Toronto FC in Canada, Miguel Aceval, told Punjab Sports version of the events that ended with his arrest along with two other teammates after starring in an incident where they were accused of being 'poisoned' after alcohol intake.
On the occasion, according to a spokesman for the Houston Police in dialogue with a local newspaper said that "there were riots outside the club. Nuestos officers tried to disperse the fight, although they rejected the police action and began to undertake them verbally with them. "
"They were given multiple chances to withdraw" All quiet until "one of them ran away, an officer chased him and took him prisoner" completed the source.
Aceval Soolsma and Silva were in town to face the Houston Dynamo of Major League Soccer on Wednesday.
The version of Aceval
The former defender of Colo Colo, told Punjab Sports that after the incident versions are not as they were released.
"What they said is not true. Obviously we had drunk something, but we were not intoxicated as they said. What happened was that a friend started an argument with a taxi driver and hit him in the car. Then we see that the driver comes with a stick to the expectation of the people. We went for not sticking to my partner and told him it was not for more. Characters who were assaulted in the room was that my partner and no more. It was a great fight as stated in the newspapers and the news, "said

"We were in the car and the cops told me to come down and arrest me. The reason I said because we were drunk and not fight. If it had been for a fight was OK but did not. It was over and they took all three, "said the Chilean.

[Suds]

Leave it to google translate to confuse the situation even more, LOL.

In any case, it appears as though the story has been overblown by the media because of the state of disarray of the organization.

Fair assessment of the situation. The organization is in total disarray and the slightest screw up will only be magnified.

God knows this team is causing severe damage to my liver on a regular basis. :drinking:

[Jack]

Google Translate is, in short, a horrible source and easily twists things around. Here's my quick and dirty translation. If I were doing this for someone who was paying, I'd use my dictionary and stuff, but you guys can't afford me g:D



“Lo que dijeron no es verdad. Obviamente habíamos bebido algo, pero no estábamos intoxicados como dijeron. Lo que pasó fue que un compañero comenzó una discusión con un taxista y le dio un golpe al auto. Después vemos que el chofer viene con un palo ante la expectación de la gente. Nos metimos para que no le pegaran a mi compañero y le dijimos que no era para más. Los personajes que estaban adentro del local agredieron a mi compañero y fue eso no más. No fue una gran pelea como se dijo en los diarios y en las noticias”, aseveró.



What they said is not true. Obviously, we had had a few drinks, but we weren't intoxicated the way they said. What happened was, one of my buddies was arguing with a taxi-drive and he hit the car. Then we saw the driver coming out of the car with a stick while people egged him on. We jumped in so he wouldn't hit our buddy and told him it was nothing. The people who were inside the place were going after my friend and that was it. It wasn't a big fight like everyone in the news was saying.



“Estábamos en el auto y los policías me dijeron que me bajara y me detuvieron. La razón que me dijeron porque estábamos bebidos y no por la pelea. Si hubiese sido por una pelea estaba bien, pero no fue así. Ya había pasado todo y nos llevaron a los tres”, agregó el chileno.

We were in the car and the police told me to get out and they detained me. The reason that they gave me was that it was because we were drunk, not because of the fight. If it had been for the fight, fine, but it wasn't. All of that had already ended and they still took the three of us in.

[jabbronies]

Google Translate is, in short, a horrible source and easily twists things around. Here's my quick and dirty translation. If I were doing this for someone who was paying, I'd use my dictionary and stuff, but you guys can't afford me g:D


What they said is not true. Obviously, we had had a few drinks, but we weren't intoxicated the way they said. What happened was, one of my buddies was arguing with a taxi-drive and he hit the car. Then we saw the driver coming out of the car with a stick while people egged him on. We jumped in so he wouldn't hit our buddy and told him it was nothing. The people who were inside the place were going after my friend and that was it. It wasn't a big fight like everyone in the news was saying.


We were in the car and the police told me to get out and they detained me. The reason that they gave me was that it was because we were drunk, not because of the fight. If it had been for the fight, fine, but it wasn't. All of that had already ended and they still took the three of us in.

I'm liking the Google Translate version better. Seemed like there was more drama with the cabbie getting hit and then Aceval arresting himself after a great fight.

[ag futbol]

Courtesy of U-Sector member huginho, Aceval's version to Chilean radio:

This begs the question: were the TFC players gagged from speaking to the local press? Did they think it was against their best interest given what happened?

Or most likely: were the reporters who cover TFC in this city lazy as usual and jumped to conclusions so they could write their usual crap.

[pawlukj]

Man seriously what is this team up to? Acting like a bunch of losers, alcoholics, and scumbags. this isnt what a winning team with their minds set on winning do

[joeyjones]

Man seriously what is this team up to? Acting like a bunch of losers, alcoholics, and scumbags. this isnt what a winning team with their minds set on winning do

really? tell that to Mickey Mantle and Whitey Ford...or the 82 Cardinals...or Bernie Carbo before he hit a huge homer in the 75 World Series

[pawlukj]

being part of a professional team, means that you behave and act as a professional. I dont know why they were drinking in the first place, i guess thats up to them. But even a normal person wouldnt do stuff like that let alone a pro that is playing a game ina few days.

They can go ahead and join Hedo Turkoglu in my category of disgrace.

[nlsanand]

I'm letting this one slide. Cops can be assholes sometimes, and these aren't Canadian cops either (who are bad enough). So that explains the arrest, coupled with the story from Aceval. The Silva running away part...haven't got a clear story yet. But I'm almost willing to assume it was something like "Fuck off officer, we're leaving anyways." situation.

In terms of being out on Sunday night. Well, Luis's situation kinda explains that. I can live with it. My brother died a couple of years ago, and I went and got drunk a couple of nights later (though I went to my local, not some club downtown). People deal with that shit differently.

[tiberius]

So a Chilean, an American and a Dutchman walk into a bar...

I am starting to see a pattern here - the last big aggravating dust-up we had was when a bus full of Chileans stirred the pot at BMO in 2007 for the U20... We should have known that we would get indigestion if we tried Chili again this year... :D

[MG42]

The Legend Wade Boggs


We’ve had a few questions come up about Boggs, and why we refer to tasty Miller Lites as Boggs. Well my friends, open your ears and I’ll pour in a tale.

I heard the legendary story over my car radio as I was heading down I-5 to work about a year ago, listening to Mitch in the Morning on 950 KJR, as usual. For some reason or another, Mitch was gone that day so Steve Sandmeyer was hosting the show, and former Mariners and Yankees pitcher Jeff Nelson was sitting in as his sidekick.
Sandmeyer was killing some time by making small talk about baseball and about Nelly’s career and exploits as a major leaguer. The conversation turned to some of the funniest things Nelly had seen in his career when Sandy asked something like “who was the best with the ladies out of everyone you were around in baseball?” Nelson said that it was tough to say for sure, but that he figured it was probably Andre Dawson, the former Expos, Cubs, Red Sox, and Marlins slugger.

The two shared a laugh about the Hawk’s game, and then Sandmeyer stumbled upon the most compelling question ever articulated in an interview: “who would you say drank the most beer out of everyone you ever played with?” The following colloquy sheds some light on one of drinking’s biggest stars and on one of the greatest drinking feats of all time.

Sandy: Who would you say drank the most beer out of everyone you ever played with?

Nelson: Easy, Wade Boggs…..easy

Sandy: (laughing) Really!? Wade Boggs?

Nelson: Oh, yeah, without a doubt. I’ve never seen anyone drink as much beer as he did in my life:

Sandy: (laughing) Get outta here, alright, give me an example, like how much did he drink?

Nelson: Oh, I’d say, on a typical road trip, east coast to west coast [Nelly played with Boggs on the Yankees], say a road game to Seattle……Wade would drink anywhere between 50 and 60 beers.

Sandy: NO WAY!! 50 or 60 beers. That is impossible.

Nelson: No, I know…I know how crazy that sounds, and I wouldn’t believe it myself unless I saw him do it…..numerous times. And he drank nothing but Miller Lite.

Sandy: How in the hell did he have time to drink that many beers. For God’s sake, how many times did he have to go to the bathroom?

Nelson: I’m not kidding you Steve. Seriously. Wade was the kind of guy who was always the first one at the club house. So, he’d get to the clubhouse, and he’d bring a six pack with him. He’d be there drinking a beer when someone showed up, and as we were all packing our stuff up out of our lockers and getting our bags ready for the trip, Wade would sit there and drink that whole six pack.
Now, at the time, we were flying out of New Jersey, so it was somewhat of a drive from Yankee stadium to the airport in New Jersey. Wade would drink another couple of beers on the bus to the airport. At the time, we were flying this older airplane, it couldn’t make it across the country without refueling, and it wasn’t the fastest airplane in the sky. So we would stop in North Dakota or something. Wade would drink about a half rack between New Jersey and North Dakota, and it would take about a half-hour to an hour to refuel once we got there, so he’d have a few more beers while we were grounded in North Dakota.
Once we got back up in the air, Wade would drink another 10, 11, 12 beers on the way out to the west coast. The whole flight from coast to coast ususally took us well over 7 hours. We’d touch down at Sea-Tac, hop on the bus headed to the Kingdome, and Wade would have another beer or two on the bus. Then, all of us would get to the Kingdome and unpack our bags and sit around and BS with eachother, and Wade would have a beer in his hand the entire time. He was always one of the last people to leave the club house too. So I’d say that all in all, he drank over 50 beers on the trip, and this wasn’t just an isolated incident, he did that almost every time.

Sandy: Unbelievable. That’s absolutely unbelieveable.

Nelson: Yeah, I know, I’m not kidding though, let’s call up somebody and they’ll tell you man, they’ll tell you I’m not lying.

Sandy: Alright, who should we call up. Let’s take a commercial break, and then we’ll call up somebody and see if we can’t get to the bottom of this….This is absolutely amazing.
[commercial break: When the commercial end, Paul Sorrento, a former Mariner and Devil Ray, and Boggs’s and Nelly’s former teammate, is on the phone]

Nelly: Hey Paul, good to hear from you man, I haven’t talked to you in a while.

Sorrento: Yeah, what’s it been like, two, three years?

Nelly: Yeah. Hey, Paul, just to clarify now, I didn’t speak to you over the commercial break, and I haven’t talked to you about anything since we last talked a few years ago right?

Sorrento: Yeah, right.

Nelly: Alright Paul, we’ve been talking about Wade Boggs up here today in Seattle.

Sorrento: (laughing) Yeah, ole Wade huh.

Nelly: Yeah, alright Paul, I need you to answer one question for me, truthfully now….How many beers would Wade Boggs drink on an east coast to west coast road trip?

Sorrento: Oh, jeez, (exhaling like a flat tire) I don’t know, like 70.

Nelly, Sandberg, Sorrento, Hank: (Rolling on the ground laughing)

So there you have it, that’s the wonderful tale of Wade Boggs’ incredible drinking feats. So one day when a few of us at tasty booze were hanging around crushing some ice cold Miller Lites, and after I told them the story of Wade Boggs, we decided from then on that we would call a Miller Lite a Boggs in honor of the man who drank ‘em the best.

[ochos]

Finally getting around to reading this story - and frankly I have to laugh at all the people on this board who come on here to judge and criticize just about anybody like they're paid to give their opinion. It's actually kind of sad the way people just jump right into passing judgement, without really thinking about how certain situations play out. These kinds of things can happen out of nowhere - I've seen my fair share of bar/club brawls and things can escalate very quickly.

First off, for three players to get arrested all at once is not common. Definitely would seem that they were all dragged in - it doesn't necessarily mean that they all did something bad. When cops arrive on the scene of a conflict, they don't care to listen to stories. They'll arrest first and ask questions later (and rightly so in many cases). But once you're in cuffs, that's it, your fucked. Regardless of innocence, be prepared to spend the night in the clink.

I could really give a rat's ass if these guys even got in a good old fashioned fisticuffs - hell we all found it entertaining in Cool Runnings, no? But seriously, I hope this snaps some sort of sense into them and we see a resurgence in form. I'm sure the organization will deal with this pretty sternly, in the modern, politically correct 'holier than thou' era where everyone is perfect. But to act disgraced by the players as if they beat up a school kid is just silly. I've heard some pretty sad stories about pro athletes getting away with all sorts of crazy bar brawls - the kind that make this look like child's play. And these guys are worshiped like gods because they're often untouchable.

So to end rant - who really gives a fuck? Let's get on with it and get a W

[Auzzy]

Possibly a bit of context about PI arrests in Texas, an article from Mother Jones magazine in the US: http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2010/03/texas-racist-laws-drinking-while-brown

Not saying this necessarily applied in the case of the TFC 3, but just something to keep in mind. (Duane Rollins posted the link to Twitter.)