PDA

View Full Version : Message from Mariner



Oldtimer
06-15-2012, 01:08 PM
To SSHs:



Hello Everyone, http://image.mlsefanmail.com/lib/fed316717160047c/m/3/paulma.gif (http://click.mlsefanmail.com/?qs=a6cc2de859c3ec662fb4960ebee1bb177fd4539606f97b ed8411a6ba2bd17980)
Let me start by saying what a great honour it is to be taking on the role of head coach and director of soccer operations for Toronto FC. I care deeply about this club and our supporters and I want you to know this position means the world to me.
I feel that having been a part of this club for over a year and a half, and playing a role in building and changing the way we do things, makes for an easier transition. The club's foundation remains the same based on our 'Four Pillars' of Player Development, Style of Play, Culture, and Results. This will continue to drive every decision we make for the club.
Monday of this week marked my first training session with the squad and our first day moving into our new Kia Training Ground. This facility, once fully completed, is going to be second-to-none in North America and mirrors many of the facilities I've seen across Europe. Our players will benefit from having a facility to call their own and it will allow our Academy program to work and grow in the very same environment.
I can ensure all of you that my goal is to make this club a winner. I cannot promise how long that is going to take and we have to be realistic about our current situation. However, I told the players before the press conference this past Thursday that they are not a 1-9 team and I truly believe that. We have a great group of men that I have a lot of confidence in and I know they are capable of playing winning football.
This confidence comes from having played for a number of different coaches in a number of different systems. I know this league, the teams, the coaches and players quite well. I think in your career as a player or as a coach you pick things up from each manager you work with and that helps to shape the type of manager you are.
In closing, I'd like to thank you for your continued support of this club. We cannot succeed without you. The fans of this club are so important and I truly appreciate your support. We will make you proud to be Red. I look forward to my first match at home but before that we have some work to do on the road.
Here's to brighter days ahead for us all.
Warm Regards,
http://image.mlsefanmail.com/lib/fed316717160047c/m/3/Mariner+Signature.JPG
Paul Mariner

denime
06-15-2012, 01:16 PM
This is actually ANSLEMI'S message to the fans.

if you read between the lines this is what message said;


Dear TFC fans,
Get your Nivea Vaselines ready, because I and my beloved ML$E will :sheep: once again!

Yours truly,
:puke:Uncle Tom

Suds
06-15-2012, 01:39 PM
:Yawn:

Another message from TFC to fans. Yawn.

ManUtd4ever
06-15-2012, 02:44 PM
Tough crowd, LOL.

For once, I will take a public message from TFC with a degree of sincerity. Paul Mariner strikes me as a genuine individual. I sincerely wish him the best of luck, and a long prosperous career with TFC.

Flint
06-15-2012, 02:47 PM
Ugh.. New TIFO "trophies not fan letters"

kodiakTFC
06-15-2012, 02:47 PM
Didn't read, just deleted the email. I've seen enough of these emails, show me results.

Pookie
06-15-2012, 02:51 PM
I like what he had to say. At first glance, he would be a fun coach to play for. When Eckersley talks about an open door for any issue, that's the kind of guy you want.

I hope he can succeed in spite of the organization he is in. That said, there is no lengthy timeline for this to work. No time for them to "gel" or learn something new. Results. Now. End of discussion.

If he doesn't, I don't necessarily want him fired too and we go looking for an 8th coach. Folks need to hold Anselmi accountable before making a decision on him. If there are no results between now and the end of the year... and I'm talking dramatic results like a playoff push and deep into CCL... then Anselmi needs to be accountable before I renew my season tickets.

Win or draw now. There is no lose.

TOBOR !
06-17-2012, 01:11 AM
well I think I've sorted out one mystery. When quizzed on the tactics he'll employ, his reply is 'the players will dictate the style of play'.

Ergo, SHIT.

cmonyoureds
06-17-2012, 08:52 AM
But Paul, do you have a 5 year plan?

Flipityflu
06-17-2012, 09:11 AM
This is actually ANSLEMI'S message to the fans.

if you read between the lines this is what message said;

well, the key to avoiding non-consentual anal sex is to do everything you can to keep your pants up, and not bending over. the most effective way to guarantee this is to stop giving MLSE money. since giving up my season tickets, i no longer feel frightened when it gets dark that Tom is going to jump me. take the money out of the equation, and not only will you feel better about things, but it will also hasten the break up of the front office, which will achieve the short term goal of most people here in seeing Tom's backside for once.

that said, cheers Paul, and best of luck.

maxpower
06-17-2012, 12:53 PM
Is anyone else getting kind of tired of Mariner's name dropping everytime somoene asks him how he is qualified as a coach?

jloome
06-17-2012, 12:59 PM
Subtext of this message:

"I've been told I'm the person who put this squad together, so I've basically got rest of the season to make it work, at which point, my arse is confetti if we're not winning games. So I'm going to be as proactive with the fans and the media as I can be, keep me chin up, and pray like an altar boy at a bishop's convention."

Hitcho
06-18-2012, 08:33 AM
This post/comment is not aimed at Mariner, but I just don't know if I can stomach another ride on the annual TFC regime change. All we do is go round and round in one year cycles of sackings and failures and fresh false starts. There's no soul to this team. We had a little bit of history and pride and then MLSE trampled on it with Dichio-gate. If I renew my season tickets again, then what am I renewing for? Mariner to be fired before the end of next season and another ride on the annual fresh start of regime change?

The only thing that comes and goes faster than coaches at BMO Field is new players. My wife asked me at the weekend to name all the TFC managers in order. I had to think about it for a while to make sure I had them all correct and in the right order. We've completed five seasons of football and yet the TFC manager list is already a taxing question to ask paying season ticket holders.

Don't get me wrong, TFC is very much my team and I will always want to get behind the badge and support them. I just feel like all I am being asked to support at the moment is a chaotic merry-go-round that costs more and more the faster it spins but seems to have less and less clue of what direction it should be going in. I am sitting here struggling to work out why I should keep buying into this.

I was behind Winter and what he was trying to do. Suddenly after five years we had an identity and a direction to travel in - a football club with a football ideology you could stand behind. I don't need fast results to make me a supporter, I just need a team and a club to stand behind and believe in. Winning is a bonus, but not a necessity. We had that identity in 2007 and it was amazing - the supporter ethos more than made up for the results because we had a CLUB and something to believe in. That faded to some extent (perhaps inevitably) but then Winter imposed an identity and we were heading in a pre-determined direction again - a club with an ethos and a plan. Results have gone badly for ten games so MLSE have ditched that and started fresh all over again.

What are we left with? Another ride on the fresh false start carousel with the headless chickens at MLSE still running around the back office in a clueless fashion pushing whichever panic button their flapping chicken wings come to first.

It makes it very, very difficult to get out my credit card and fork over what now amounts to a couple of grand for 4 south end season tickets.

What a depressing scenario. Thanks Tom Anselmi - this is the culmination of five years of clueless, panic-based tinkering with our team.

brad
06-18-2012, 08:59 AM
This post/comment is not aimed at Mariner, but I just don't know if I can stomach another ride on the annual TFC regime change. All we do is go round and round in one year cycles of sackings and failures and fresh false starts. There's no soul to this team. We had a little bit of history and pride and then MLSE trampled on it with Dichio-gate. If I renew my season tickets again, then what am I renewing for? Mariner to be fired before the end of next season and another ride on the annual fresh start of regime change?

Of course not. They will give us some wonderful, can't miss reason to to renew prior to renewal time. Maybe Mariner will get sacked first and we will get another promise of getting the best FO in the league. Or maybe a big name DP signing that will single handledly deliver glory to us.

TOBOR !
06-18-2012, 09:28 AM
I think the drop-off in renewals this year will be precipitous... and if Anselmi somehow survives in charge of this club to the end of this season he won't see the start of next (no matter how it's spun).

SSHs that didn't renew this year were more than likely tired of the continuing losing, but the majority who did renew in spite of it all did so because they saw a bright future (or hoped they did, and were prepared to give it time).

Now, though, we know we were duped. There was no five year plan. No three year plan. There was just the same old shit wrapped up in new paper.

Brooker
06-18-2012, 10:26 AM
The joys of supporting shitty sports teams. Separates the men from the boys.

Redcoe15
06-18-2012, 11:16 AM
http://i815.photobucket.com/albums/zz74/victor_the_crab/IdiotAnselmi.jpg?t=1340033282

Hitcho
06-18-2012, 01:10 PM
I think the drop-off in renewals this year will be precipitous...

The "expected drop off in SSH sales" issue comes up every year. I think this year the trickle will become a steady stream. The flood can't be too much farther away if the headless chicken approach to running a football club keeps up.

colman1860
06-18-2012, 06:06 PM
tl;dr

DangerRed
06-18-2012, 06:17 PM
Two things: you take out Mariner's face, replace it with Winter's, rearrange the words a little, and you've got the exact same message we received from the previous coach.

Second: there is actually a three-step, surefire way to prove you're an idiot, and I'll argue it applies in the level-above-Mariner case:

1. You think you're smart.
2. You think everyone else is stupid.
3. Everyone else thinks you're stupid.

If all these three hold true for you, you are positively, certainly and irrefutably an idiot.

sully
06-18-2012, 06:21 PM
The "expected drop off in SSH sales" issue comes up every year. I think this year the trickle will become a steady stream. The flood can't be too much farther away if the headless chicken approach to running a football club keeps up.

I'm at the end of my rope. I'm not even sure if a 50 to 70% reduction in tickets price would make me come around at this point.

Code Red
06-18-2012, 07:08 PM
Lee Godfrey: Paul, let's get your thoughts overall on this match, your first game at the helm of Toronto FC.
Paul Mariner: What do I think about it? I thought the first 20 was a bit ropey but I thought the rest of the game was sensational.

FFS, this man is delusional if he thinks we outplayed KC the rest of the game. All we did was hoof the ball upfield and got a couple of chances on goal, none of which found the back of the net. KC outplayed us from start to finish yet he believes we played "sensationally".

ARON WINTER PART DEUX :banghead:

MartinUtd
06-18-2012, 07:28 PM
The reports aren't asking the important questions that fans want... no, NEED to know. I'm talking about his thoughts on the forthcoming Liverpool friendly.

69Chevy396
06-18-2012, 08:47 PM
The Kia training facility could double as the Kia Detention Centre to save police from having to drive the drunken players all the way to 32 or 12 division.

Red Rat
06-19-2012, 10:18 AM
is is a joke one big fricking joke

brad
06-19-2012, 10:26 AM
The more I think about it, the more I realize this is a smart play from Anselmi (from a political standpoint).

Sack Winter now, appease the masses now. Put Mariner in place. If he succeeds, great. If he fails, sack him before renewals and make some big promise to try and sucker people in again.

ensco
06-19-2012, 10:35 AM
The more I think about it, the more I realize this is a smart play from Anselmi (from a political standpoint).

Sack Winter now, appease the masses now. Put Mariner in place. If he succeeds, great. If he fails, sack him before renewals and make some big promise to try and sucker people in again.

Unless new owners see it for what it is: shifting deck chairs on the Titanic. Which I think they will.

Redcoe15
06-19-2012, 10:38 AM
Unless new owners see it for what it is: shifting deck chairs on the Titanic. Which I think they will.

And if they don't - if they are of the same mindset as Anselmi - then we got long term problems.

Just One Man
06-19-2012, 10:38 AM
Two things: you take out Mariner's face, replace it with Winter's, rearrange the words a little, and you've got the exact same message we received from the previous coach.

Second: there is actually a three-step, surefire way to prove you're an idiot, and I'll argue it applies in the level-above-Mariner case:

1. You think you're smart.
2. You think everyone else is stupid.
3. Everyone else thinks you're stupid.

If all these three hold true for you, you are positively, certainly and irrefutably an idiot.

:lol:


The more I think about it, the more I realize this is a smart play from Anselmi (from a political standpoint).

Sack Winter now, appease the masses now. Put Mariner in place. If he succeeds, great. If he fails, sack him before renewals and make some big promise to try and sucker people in again.

Did sacking Winter really appease anybody? Hell, I hated Winter, but even I was the point where I knew it didn't matter if he was fired.

And at this point I don't think another "we promise we'll do better" letter from Anselmi is going to actually sway opinions. This franchise has jumped the shark. It is a laughing stock to the point where promises of improvement just sound funny.

TOBOR !
06-19-2012, 10:58 AM
Sacking Winter didn't appease anybody. Hell, I'd wager 'the masses' were pissed that he was fired because it meant scrapping a 3/5 year plan after 18 months.

here we go again.

Face it - the ONLY way the club will be able to slow the SSH exodus is if they replace Anselmi - I'll be shocked if he lasts out the year.

brad
06-19-2012, 10:58 AM
Did sacking Winter really appease anybody? Hell, I hated Winter, but even I was the point where I knew it didn't matter if he was fired.

I know a few people that were happy by it and though it was a good move. Remember, the bulk of people in that stadium don't hang out on message boards and pay attention to the internal workings of MLSE or over-analyze things to the level we do.

Beach_Red
06-19-2012, 11:58 AM
I know a few people that were happy by it and though it was a good move. Remember, the bulk of people in that stadium don't hang out on message boards and pay attention to the internal workings of MLSE or over-analyze things to the level we do.

But even to casual fans the timing was terrible - the team had just won the Canadian Championship and finally won an MLS game.

Canary10
06-19-2012, 12:06 PM
But even to casual fans the timing was terrible - the team had just won the Canadian Championship and finally won an MLS game.

Yeah I agree. I heard quite a few people question why they would do it immediately after their first win and a little undefeated streak if you include Canadian Championship games.

ryan
06-19-2012, 12:09 PM
Sacking Winter didn't appease anybody. Hell, I'd wager 'the masses' were pissed that he was fired because it meant scrapping a 3/5 year plan after 18 months.

here we go again.

Face it - the ONLY way the club will be able to slow the SSH exodus is if they replace Anselmi - I'll be shocked if he lasts out the year.

I'll be shocked if he's sacked. He makes them money despite us being shit, he is therefore a fucking genius to the board I'm sure.


I'm certain the general board thought on Anselmi is

"He's hated by the fans, the club is terrible, he can act like a total dickfuck in the billionth new coach presser, YET we're making more money than before and he's got all the fans having the mindset of supporting through it all. He keeps raising the prices, they still come, he charges $15 for beer, they still drink! Imagine how much money he'll make us if this club lucks out and finally wins? Someone give this man a raise! He can turn literal shit into profits!!"

brad
06-19-2012, 12:18 PM
But even to casual fans the timing was terrible - the team had just won the Canadian Championship and finally won an MLS game.

I'm not defending them or anything, but I know a few people that really care about that sort of stuff. To them, TFC suck in the league, are worse than we ever were, and thought the coach needed to go.

brad
06-19-2012, 12:19 PM
I'll be shocked if he's sacked. He makes them money despite us being shit, he is therefore a fucking genius to the board I'm sure.


I'm certain the general board thought on Anselmi is

Unfortunately, this is likely to be true. The swing factor will be how bad renewals are though.

Beach_Red
06-19-2012, 02:05 PM
Yeah I agree. I heard quite a few people question why they would do it immediately after their first win and a little undefeated streak if you include Canadian Championship games.

The mechanics of this move go a long way to explaining what's wrong with TFC. There was a line buried in the middle of an article weeks ago in which Anselmi admitted he needed board approval to make a coaching change. The day Winter was fired he first met with the board at a regularly scheduled meeting, so what likely happened was that Anselmi put 'coaching change' on the agenda weeks before the meeting. Remember when Winter had to meet with the board on a gameday because that's when the meeting was scheduled and the board doesn't bend. John Ferguson Jr., complained about waiting for board meetings for decisions, too.

Canary10
06-19-2012, 02:12 PM
The mechanics of this move go a long way to explaining what's wrong with TFC. There was a line buried in the middle of an article weeks ago in which Anselmi admitted he needed board approval to make a coaching change. The day Winter was fired he first met with the board at a regularly scheduled meeting, so what likely happened was that Anselmi put 'coaching change' on the agenda weeks before the meeting. Remember when Winter had to meet with the board on a gameday because that's when the meeting was scheduled and the board doesn't bend. John Ferguson Jr., complained about waiting for board meetings for decisions, too.

Yeah, for sure.

We all know he should have been fired the day they made Brennan his assistant. I'm sure they had made the decision by that point. Instead they embarrassed him by taking away his assistant coach, then fired him anyway weeks later. Not a way to treat a guy as accomplished in the game as Winter.

Initial B
06-19-2012, 09:46 PM
I don't know if anyone has listened to the MLS Extratime radio program today, but Mariner gets interviewed starting at 30:00. Some interesting quotes include him mentioning that he wants to make it "hard to beat TFC", though that doesn't necessarily mean "to win". He also says he bluntly told the players "if you don't want to buy into the new program, let me know now so we can find some other pasture's green". It seems he sincerely wants to fix the team, so I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt for the rest of the season.

But I still want Anselmi gone.

Auzzy
06-19-2012, 09:52 PM
^ Hmmm, doesn't sound like "little tweaks" to me.

denime
06-19-2012, 09:57 PM
I don't know if anyone has listened to the MLS Extratime radio program today, but Mariner gets interviewed starting at 30:00. Some interesting quotes include him mentioning that he wants to make it "hard to beat TFC", though that doesn't necessarily mean "to win". He also says he bluntly told the players "if you don't want to buy into the new program, let me know now so we can find some other pasture's green". It seems he sincerely wants to fix the team, so I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt for the rest of the season.

But I still want Anselmi gone.

We have that under Preki,we were hard to beat,and boring to death.

ANSELMI GTFO !!!!

DaBandit
06-19-2012, 10:22 PM
Yeah, for sure.

We all know he should have been fired the day they made Brennan his assistant. I'm sure they had made the decision by that point. Instead they embarrassed him by taking away his assistant coach, then fired him anyway weeks later. Not a way to treat a guy as accomplished in the game as Winter.

Your absolutely right, if they were going to fire him it should have been on that day. Instead they embarrassed him, which is sad because he was a classy man. Not a great coach, at least not in this type of league, but he was classy. Which brings up the question, if Mariner fails, how do they get a top guy to come in to this type of environment? My guess is that they don't, as no one in their right mind would want to be employed here and that's sad for all of us.

Auzzy
06-19-2012, 10:22 PM
We have that under Preki,we were hard to beat,and boring to death.

ANSELMI GTFO !!!!

^ Hard to beat, hard to watch, yet they still missed the playoffs.

jabbronies
06-19-2012, 10:37 PM
I don't know if anyone has listened to the MLS Extratime radio program today, but Mariner gets interviewed starting at 30:00. Some interesting quotes include him mentioning that he wants to make it "hard to beat TFC", though that doesn't necessarily mean "to win". He also says he bluntly told the players "if you don't want to buy into the new program, let me know now so we can find some other pasture's green". It seems he sincerely wants to fix the team, so I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt for the rest of the season.

But I still want Anselmi gone.

I wonder who he was talking about here?

Ajax TFC
06-19-2012, 11:18 PM
I'll be shocked if he's sacked. He makes them money despite us being shit, he is therefore a fucking genius to the board I'm sure.


I'm certain the general board thought on Anselmi is
The board is brainless if they see a financial chart that looks like:
http://www.scrumalliance.org/system/resource_files/0000/0024/Mar_Partii_graph1.png
And they respond by saying "hey look, we still managed to make ten Million dollars, great job Anselmi!
I prey that Rogers and Bell actually know how to read one of these things, cause clearly the current guys don't

Ajax TFC
06-19-2012, 11:22 PM
I don't know if anyone has listened to the MLS Extratime radio program today, but Mariner gets interviewed starting at 30:00. Some interesting quotes include him mentioning that he wants to make it "hard to beat TFC", though that doesn't necessarily mean "to win". He also says he bluntly told the players "if you don't want to buy into the new program, let me know now so we can find some other pasture's green". It seems he sincerely wants to fix the team, so I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt for the rest of the season.

But I still want Anselmi gone.
my fear is that a lot of the more skilled guys won't accept kick-n-run-around-like-headless-chickens football, and rightfully so. Remember Avila's interview at halftime? "I think we need to get more possession of the ball" which pretty much goes against Mariner's style of "get it as far away as possible and then try to win it again later"

boozilla
06-20-2012, 12:30 AM
Klinsmann's attempt to force "attacking football" into a kick and run league, was well intended, but naive. MLS has miles to go.

T.O. is a football savvy market and it's time to realize that, our stoic tolerance for the present and hope for the future, just enables MLSE's corporate greed.
Won't be renewing next season.

Pookie
06-20-2012, 05:50 AM
Klinsmann's attempt to force "attacking football" into a kick and run league, was well intended, but naive. MLS has miles to go.

T.O. is a football savvy market and it's time to realize that, our stoic tolerance for the present and hope for the future, just enables MLSE's corporate greed.
Won't be renewing next season.

SKC seems to be doing well with an attacking 4-3-3. Took them awhile but I wouldn't be surprised to see the bulk of MLS teams start to copy this system... the one we have just abandoned. Success attracts copycats.

Oldtimer
06-20-2012, 07:12 AM
SKC seems to be doing well with an attacking 4-3-3. Took them awhile but I wouldn't be surprised to see the bulk of MLS teams start to copy this system... the one we have just abandoned. Success attracts copycats.

But KC does 4-3-3 in a much simpler and more physical manner.

In other words, in a manner much more suited to this league.

I would have much rather seen a refinement of Toronto's 4-3-3 to look more like KC's than a total abandonment of our supposedly long-term plan and a switch to 4-4-2 longball. My problem with Winter was that he inflexibly insisted on playing an excessively technical game. My problem with Mariner is that he's gone to kick and run. Why can't we have a happy medium? grrrrrrrrr.

TOBOR !
06-20-2012, 07:19 AM
Klinsmann's attempt to force "attacking football" into a kick and run league, was well intended, but naive. MLS has miles to go.

T.O. is a football savvy market and it's time to realize that, our stoic tolerance for the present and hope for the future, just enables MLSE's corporate greed.
Won't be renewing next season.

That doesn't make sense to me... is "Kick and Run" that hard to break down ?

jrober38
06-20-2012, 07:46 AM
But KC does 4-3-3 in a much simpler and more physical manner.

In other words, in a manner much more suited to this league.

I would have much rather seen a refinement of Toronto's 4-3-3 to look more like KC's than a total abandonment of our supposedly long-term plan and a switch to 4-4-2 longball. My problem with Winter was that he inflexibly insisted on playing an excessively technical game. My problem with Mariner is that he's gone to kick and run. Why can't we have a happy medium? grrrrrrrrr.

Sporting KC are doing what we were supposed to do. The big difference is that they have quality players while we have garbage who can barely string 3 passes together. They play with great skill, tons of pace up front and their movement off the ball is fantastic.

They're taking what Klinsmann suggested and executing the plan because they've got quality ownership, great coaching and high quality players. We have none of those things, which is why it didn't work here...

Beach_Red
06-20-2012, 08:21 AM
But KC does 4-3-3 in a much simpler and more physical manner.

In other words, in a manner much more suited to this league.

I would have much rather seen a refinement of Toronto's 4-3-3 to look more like KC's than a total abandonment of our supposedly long-term plan and a switch to 4-4-2 longball. My problem with Winter was that he inflexibly insisted on playing an excessively technical game. My problem with Mariner is that he's gone to kick and run. Why can't we have a happy medium? grrrrrrrrr.

If a happy medium is our goal (or a style of play that will get wins in MLS, which is what the happy medium seems like), then this might not be a terrible way to work towards it - going from simpler to more complex is easier than the other way around. And for all our talk of long-term goals, the team has to win some games this year - it's tough enough to sign people to TFC, but the further the rest of the league seems to be moving away from us the harder it will be.

As lame as it sounds, we might as well give him a chance and see if Mariner remains inflexible or if he has some kind of plan he's working towards.

Canary10
06-20-2012, 08:35 AM
Well, he'll either look like a savvy tactician who is able to set a gameplan to exploit the team he's playing and make the most of the players he has or a dinosaur leading us to the Stone Ages of long balls to big men up front. I'm personally afraid its the latter, and any foundation Winter built (and I think he did) will be lost.

brad
06-20-2012, 08:39 AM
But KC does 4-3-3 in a much simpler and more physical manner.

In other words, in a manner much more suited to this league.

I would have much rather seen a refinement of Toronto's 4-3-3 to look more like KC's than a total abandonment of our supposedly long-term plan and a switch to 4-4-2 longball. My problem with Winter was that he inflexibly insisted on playing an excessively technical game. My problem with Mariner is that he's gone to kick and run. Why can't we have a happy medium? grrrrrrrrr.

I didn't see the match on Saturday. Did we play 4-4-2 longball?

Canary10
06-20-2012, 08:40 AM
Yeah. When we had the ball. Which wasn't much.

jrober38
06-20-2012, 08:46 AM
Well, he'll either look like a savvy tactician who is able to set a gameplan to exploit the team he's playing and make the most of the players he has or a dinosaur leading us to the Stone Ages of long balls to big men up front. I'm personally afraid its the latter, and any foundation Winter built (and I think he did) will be lost.

Based on the way we played Saturday, when we did nothing but kick the ball long to Koevermans who must have gone offside 4-5 times, that's how we're going to play. Avila's double post miss was also the result of a long ball played over the top.

And as for the 'foundation' Winter built, I don't see one. The system he tried to employ didn't work because we didn't have players with enough talent to run it. Although it was a nice idea to introduce his attacking, possession style of play, based on the results we've had over the past 1.5 years, it's pretty hard to argue any foundation was actually built.

I'll agree that there has to be a medium. To be an effective team in this league you need to be able to adapt to your opponent's weaknesses. To do that, it would be nice to be able to both pass our way into scoring chances and create them through the air. Only problem is neither of those things look like they're going to materialize anytime soon.

Beach_Red
06-20-2012, 08:49 AM
Well, he'll either look like a savvy tactician who is able to set a gameplan to exploit the team he's playing and make the most of the players he has or a dinosaur leading us to the Stone Ages of long balls to big men up front. I'm personally afraid its the latter, and any foundation Winter built (and I think he did) will be lost.

I'm trying to stay optimistic (or delusional, if you prefer ;)) but maybe after a year and a half with the organization Mariner realized that there simply isn't the senior management in place to ride out the building of a foundation that looks on the surface like, "the worst team in the world." This may be an organization that needs to hear pragmatic plans even if they sometimes get excited by more, let's say, grandiose, sounding plans if they come from a Klinsmann - once he left the building it's likely their fortitude to stay the course left with him. Somewhere in that boardroom someone was saying, "We spent millions on two European players, we want results now."

Canary10
06-20-2012, 09:05 AM
I'm trying to stay optimistic (or delusional, if you prefer ;)) but maybe after a year and a half with the organization Mariner realized that there simply isn't the senior management in place to ride out the building of a foundation that looks on the surface like, "the worst team in the world." This may be an organization that needs to hear pragmatic plans even if they sometimes get excited by more, let's say, grandiose, sounding plans if they come from a Klinsmann - once he left the building it's likely their fortitude to stay the course left with him. Somewhere in that boardroom someone was saying, "We spent millions on two European players, we want results now."

I would seriously question whether the tactics he's employing now will actually get the immediate results people want. For example, 4-4-2s are a pretty easy formation for a 4-3-3 to pick apart, especially one like KC's that is firing on all cylinders. It wasn't tactically smart to go with that in that game. I also question why guys we put a lot of stock into (and money to get) like Plata are now spare parts on this team. I challenge anyone to figure out where Plata will play in a 4-4-2. We've made one of our more exciting players totally redundant. There are a few other guys that are in the same place as him. I'm not sure a complete break from the past 1 1/2 years is the way to get results.

Oldtimer
06-20-2012, 09:14 AM
I would seriously question whether the tactics he's employing now will actually get the immediate results people want. For example, 4-4-2s are a pretty easy formation for a 4-3-3 to pick apart, especially one like KC's that is firing on all cylinders. It wasn't tactically smart to go with that in that game. I also question why guys we put a lot of stock into (and money to get) like Plata are now spare parts on this team. I challenge anyone to figure out where Plata will play in a 4-4-2. We've made one of our more exciting players totally redundant. There are a few other guys that are in the same place as him. I'm not sure a complete break from the past 1 1/2 years is the way to get results.

Exactly. It's looking like Mariner may be a wrong choice just as Winter was.

If no experienced coach is available (and frankly, why would one even think of coming here?), one of the more progressive NCAA coaches would be a good choice to move things forward. That's where most of the good MLS coaches have come from. Surely we could find one who understands 4-3-3, 4-5-1 and its variants in a reasonably technical system.

They would understand the North American player, and also probably have good connections to the player pool.

Foreign coaches tend not to do so well because these league is so different from any other league.

Canary10
06-20-2012, 09:19 AM
Exactly. It's looking like Mariner may be a wrong choice just as Winter was.

If no experienced coach is available (and frankly, why would one even think of coming here?), one of the more progressive NCAA coaches would be a good choice to move things forward. That's where most of the good MLS coaches have come from. Surely we could find one who understands 4-3-3, 4-5-1 and its variants in a reasonably technical system.

They would understand the North American player, and also probably have good connections to the player pool.

Foreign coaches tend not to do so well because these league is so different from any other league.

Caleb Porter.

Oldtimer
06-20-2012, 09:31 AM
Caleb Porter.

Good resume. Does he play a more technical (but not overly technical) style? What kind of formation does he use?

Canary10
06-20-2012, 09:59 AM
Good resume. Does he play a more technical (but not overly technical) style? What kind of formation does he use?

He plays 4-3-3 generally at Akron. Has been implementing it with the US under 21s as well.

Beach_Red
06-20-2012, 10:05 AM
He plays 4-3-3 generally at Akron. Has been implementing it with the US under 21s as well.

How well does he work with idiot bosses?

Detroit_TFC
06-20-2012, 10:07 AM
http://i815.photobucket.com/albums/zz74/victor_the_crab/IdiotAnselmi.jpg?t=1340033282


Bullseye. That perfectly captures it.

Greatest Ripoff
06-20-2012, 11:32 AM
Caleb Porter.

He used to be name I was interested in but he did a pretty poor job with a pretty good US u23 team in Olympic qualifying.

Canary10
06-20-2012, 01:55 PM
He used to be name I was interested in but he did a pretty poor job with a pretty good US u23 team in Olympic qualifying.

Anyone you look at will have examples of something that didn't go right. Question is how you learn from that. The fact that he had the experience to me is a positive. But I hear you.

Technorgasm
06-21-2012, 07:15 AM
Was and is the guy we shoudl have had from the start.
Fucking love the man.

A: Rodney Marsh (Fulham)
B: Derek Hales (Charlton Ath.)
C: Paul Mariner (Ipswich Town)
D: Kenny Stroud (Swindon Town)
E: Alan Taylor (West Ham)
F: Ronnie Goodlass (Everton)


http://youtu.be/pTMsFfkTWaA