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denime
06-15-2012, 05:36 AM
Mornin'




TFC TV (http://www.torontofc.ca/video)




Paul Mariner looking to turn around Toronto FC (http://www.thestar.com/sports/soccer/mls/torontofc/article/1211577--paul-mariner-looking-to-turn-around-toronto-fc)


Hart reflects on state of Canadian soccer (http://www.sportsnet.ca/590/2012/06/14/stephen_hart_blair/)


CDN soccer taking momentum into break (http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/2012/06/14/team_canada_soccer_world_cup_qualifying/)


Canadians love affair with national soccer team growing (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/soccer/canadians-love-affair-with-national-soccer-team-growing/article4264760/)




TFC Related Blogs !!


(http://redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?29582-TFC-MLS-blogs-thread)


SUNSHINE (http://www.torontosun.com/sunshine-girl)

denime
06-15-2012, 06:12 AM
FROM TFC TV

"if you get in trouble kick it long":facepalm:

Danny's interview- http://www.torontofc.ca/video/2012/06/14/danny-koevermans-june-14-2012




Adrian Cann's interview- http://www.torontofc.ca/video/2012/06/14/adrian-cann-june-14-2012



Brace yourself boys and girls, hoofball is back in town.

Furtado91
06-15-2012, 06:27 AM
"if you get in trouble kick it long":facepalm:

I take it this tactic did not work the first time........... well im excited for the next coach :P

Oldtimer
06-15-2012, 07:21 AM
FROM TFC TV

"if you get in trouble kick it long":facepalm:


Brace yourself boys and girls, hoofball is back in town.


Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That's worth a Matt Reis facepalm:

http://redpatchboys.ca/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=3014&d=1339181850

Darlofletch
06-15-2012, 07:57 AM
I think the key words there are 'if you get in trouble' it's not being suggested as plan A, or the ideal situation, it's just saying if you have to, get it out of there, don't take risks.

how many goals have we given up through sloppy mistakes over the last year and a half? a lot. mainly due to players trying to be fancy at the wrong time, or players cracking under the pressure of trying to play a way they're not comfortable with.

it's nowhere near facepalm worthy, i'd give that attitude, if and when the 'if you get in trouble' caveat applies, a standing ovation.

Darlofletch
06-15-2012, 08:03 AM
it's not in the linked star article, but in the paper version, there's a few other quotes from mariner

"the number 1 thing....we must stop conceding goals" - on the need to tighten up defensively

"if all of a sudden we get the money to sign Messi in the next couple of weeks, then we might change the philosophy, but I can't see that happening. what I'm a firm believer in is a firm base" - on the need to protect your own goal.

Thank fucking god for that is what I'd say, and if that means it's 'hoofball' then bring on 'hoofball'. I'm very happy to use my 3,000th post to endorse this.

Chevy
06-15-2012, 08:08 AM
it's not in the linked star article, but in the paper version, there's a few other quotes from mariner

"the number 1 thing....we must stop conceding goals" - on the need to tighten up defensively

"if all of a sudden we get the money to sign Messi in the next couple of weeks, then we might change the philosophy, but I can't see that happening. what I'm a firm believer in is a firm base" - on the need to protect your own goal.

Thank fucking god for that is what I'd say, and if that means it's 'hoofball' then bring on 'hoofball'. I'm very happy to use my 3,000th post to endorse this.


Isn't it a shame that after 3,000 posts we're supporting the merits of Hoofball? :(

Darlofletch
06-15-2012, 08:10 AM
having said all that, and then watched the videos, danny k looks really unenthused to the point of being uncomfortable when they're asking him about the changes.

Darlofletch
06-15-2012, 08:13 AM
I'm supporting the merits of a tight and solid defence. of making sure we can walk before we try all sorts of fancy running. of 'playing really badly and winning' as koevermans might say.

let's become a competent mls team first, before we start talking about grand visions again, and of being something better than mls. that's all I'm saying.

that was in reply to chevy's comment. haven't got the hang of the new board yet.

Auzzy
06-15-2012, 08:19 AM
As mentioned before, when under pressure, goalies & defense started hoofing it long under Winter a while ago to limit those risks. Maybe now they're supposed to get past the opposing end line?

Technorgasm
06-15-2012, 08:20 AM
se deserve butter. . . . but not the ssg's butter face

Oldtimer
06-15-2012, 08:22 AM
Interview with Mariner on the Fan:

http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/FanAudioOnDemand/~3/PIcOT4LWWAU/Paul-Mariner-on-the-Soccer-Show-SS-20120614-Interview.mp3 (http://feedproxy.google.com/%7Er/FanAudioOnDemand/%7E3/PIcOT4LWWAU/Paul-Mariner-on-the-Soccer-Show-SS-20120614-Interview.mp3)

In some ways he seems like the anti-Mo: honest, straightforward, direct. That can only be a good thing.

jabbronies
06-15-2012, 08:23 AM
I won't go on a huge rant on hoofball until I see it being played on Saturday, but in my experience, it's never a plan B. We already have guys who seek glory with hoofball from defense to forward. Now that it's being endorsed by the manager, good luck seeing the ball come through the ranks and played on the ground. CSL soccer here we come!

T-boy
06-15-2012, 08:26 AM
"if you get in trouble kick it long":facepalm:

I take it this tactic did not work the first time........... well im excited for the next coach :P

As opposed to "if you get in trouble, stick with the short passing game, make a mistake and kick it to an opponent, who then puts us under pressure"?

I'm looking forward to some more direct football for a change, and TFC stop passing the ball straight to the opposition in the middle of the pitch!

All this fear of more direct football is crazy!

T-boy
06-15-2012, 08:27 AM
I think the key words there are 'if you get in trouble' it's not being suggested as plan A, or the ideal situation, it's just saying if you have to, get it out of there, don't take risks.

how many goals have we given up through sloppy mistakes over the last year and a half? a lot. mainly due to players trying to be fancy at the wrong time, or players cracking under the pressure of trying to play a way they're not comfortable with.

it's nowhere near facepalm worthy, i'd give that attitude, if and when the 'if you get in trouble' caveat applies, a standing ovation.

Totally agreed.

Furtado91
06-15-2012, 08:33 AM
As opposed to "if you get in trouble, stick with the short passing game, make a mistake and kick it to an opponent, who then puts us under pressure"?

I'm looking forward to some more direct football for a change, and TFC stop passing the ball straight to the opposition in the middle of the pitch!

All this fear of more direct football is crazy!

It was a joke hence the Smiley face with the tongue sticking out ahaha. Im willing to see how it works out though i can't say im behind PM 100% yet.

Gringo Starr
06-15-2012, 08:38 AM
Must be a misprint in the Canadian love affair article, Fort York Redcoat and socceronly should get mentioned ahead of the rest of em in term of the growing support

ag futbol
06-15-2012, 09:01 AM
As opposed to "if you get in trouble, stick with the short passing game, make a mistake and kick it to an opponent, who then puts us under pressure"?

I'm looking forward to some more direct football for a change, and TFC stop passing the ball straight to the opposition in the middle of the pitch!

All this fear of more direct football is crazy!
You never know how it plays out in practice, each side of this argument might be going off the deep end.

On the one hand I agree that defense needs to tighten up and sometimes safety is a key principal. We aren't exactly blessed with a team of gifted players, so if they have to kick the ball away from danger at times maybe that's a good thing.

On the other hand, if 'kicking the ball away' becomes a crutch I don't think anyone will be happy. Lazy football, counter-logical to the way the game is played today, and bad for development of young players.


I won't go on a huge rant on hoofball until I see it being played on Saturday, but in my experience, it's never a plan B. We already have guys who seek glory with hoofball from defense to forward. Now that it's being endorsed by the manager, good luck seeing the ball come through the ranks and played on the ground. CSL soccer here we come!
Yeah good point, and to add to that I don't think it's really been the loss of possession and playing out of tight areas that has hurt this team and much as it is meat-and-potatoes defending where guys have lost their mark on set pieces, blown assignments, pinched too far up field, etc...

v00d00daddy
06-15-2012, 09:02 AM
Somebody already brought this up but I'll reiterate.

There is no problem with clearing the ball when under pressure. Te problem is that it becomes a crutch. And defenders feel like they're doing their job as long as they keep the ball as far away from their goal as possible.

That's when you get defenders under minimal pressure hoofing the ball up field because it's easier to do than actually use their brain and find a man in the mid that can get the play going the other way.

The biggest problem with direct football is that you're constantly under attack. You just keep givin the opposition opportunities to figure out how to break you down.

Now...if you're a defensive juggernaut like Italy then maybe it works (but yesterday's second half against croatia proved that all it takes is one mistake and it can cost you).

But does anyone actually think that the TFC back like being told to hoof the ball out when under a bit of pressure automatically makes this team some kind of good defensive squad? Lol

All it does is negates your midfield and overworked your strikers who get frustrated and will eventually tune out.

I'm directly behind the net in the south end and every time one of our defenders hoofs the ball
Out unnecessarily they will hear it from me.

Shway
06-15-2012, 09:13 AM
Man i got hear a lil mention of "Nicholas Lindsay".....man I hope hes able to come back strong, he showed a lot of potential

Pookie
06-15-2012, 09:23 AM
The fun part in all of this is that the quotes highlight dysfunction and lack of vision.

Pillars of the "Vision Book" from 2011 (Approved by Anselmi)

Style of Play


Play a possession based, attacking style that forces the issue and lets us control games
Play our own style that denies our "on pitch identity" and drives all personnel decisions
Always be entertaining, make it difficult for our opponent, and always play to win



Mariner June 2012

“What do you want to do, play great football and get beat 3-0 or do you want to be really smart tactically because it’s part of the game … and come out with a trophy in your hands,” he said. “If you ask the fans, it’s a no-brainer.”

"If you get in trouble kick it long"



Somewhere Preki is smirking.

C.Ronaldo
06-15-2012, 09:26 AM
this is going to be hard to watch after euro

jabbronies
06-15-2012, 09:30 AM
Yeah good point, and to add to that I don't think it's really been the loss of possession and playing out of tight areas that has hurt this team and much as it is meat-and-potatoes defending where guys have lost their mark on set pieces, blown assignments, pinched too far up field, etc...

Lots of people saying that this was due to the 4-3-3 we were playing.
4-4-2 is a lot more basic in terms of what each player is required to do. We'll see if this change corrects these problems.

It's going to take about a month to transition into this game fully..urrgh

Pookie
06-15-2012, 09:35 AM
Lots of people saying that this was due to the 4-3-3 we were playing.
4-4-2 is a lot more basic in terms of what each player is required to do. We'll see if this change corrects these problems.

It's going to take about a month to transition into this game fully..urrgh

Why?

If the players weren't capable of playing the possession minded, movement oriented 4-3-3 then what would be so difficult about adapting to something they are more comfortable with? This is the MLS' 3rd most expensive payroll after all. Clearly they are capable of playing a simple system they have been playing most of their lives?

I'm sorry but I am expecting immediate results. Anything less requires Tom Anselmi to step down before I renew my season tickets and even then I still might not renew.

Win or draw now. There is no lose.

jabbronies
06-15-2012, 09:38 AM
Why?

If the players weren't capable of playing the possession minded, movement oriented 4-3-3 then what would be so difficult about adapting to something they are more comfortable with? This is the MLS' 3rd most expensive payroll after all. Clearly they are capable of playing a simple system they have been playing most of their lives?

I'm sorry but I am expecting immediate results. Anything less requires Tom Anselmi to step down before I renew my season tickets and even then I still might not renew.

Win or draw now. There is no lose.

I agree with you, these guys are professionals and should be able to adapt quickly and get results now. But I made that mistake in assume as much in the past and the confidence in the players overall isn't there for me.

ManUtd4ever
06-15-2012, 09:40 AM
I think the key words there are 'if you get in trouble' it's not being suggested as plan A, or the ideal situation, it's just saying if you have to, get it out of there, don't take risks.

how many goals have we given up through sloppy mistakes over the last year and a half? a lot. mainly due to players trying to be fancy at the wrong time, or players cracking under the pressure of trying to play a way they're not comfortable with.

it's nowhere near facepalm worthy, i'd give that attitude, if and when the 'if you get in trouble' caveat applies, a standing ovation.

This.

denime
06-15-2012, 09:56 AM
Somebody already brought this up but I'll reiterate.

There is no problem with clearing the ball when under pressure. Te problem is that it becomes a crutch. And defenders feel like they're doing their job as long as they keep the ball as far away from their goal as possible.

That's when you get defenders under minimal pressure hoofing the ball up field because it's easier to do than actually use their brain and find a man in the mid that can get the play going the other way.

The biggest problem with direct football is that you're constantly under attack. You just keep givin the opposition opportunities to figure out how to break you down.

Now...if you're a defensive juggernaut like Italy then maybe it works (but yesterday's second half against croatia proved that all it takes is one mistake and it can cost you).

But does anyone actually think that the TFC back like being told to hoof the ball out when under a bit of pressure automatically makes this team some kind of good defensive squad? Lol

All it does is negates your midfield and overworked your strikers who get frustrated and will eventually tune out.

I'm directly behind the net in the south end and every time one of our defenders hoofs the ball
Out unnecessarily they will hear it from me.


The fun part in all of this is that the quotes highlight dysfunction and lack of vision.

Pillars of the "Vision Book" from 2011 (Approved by Anselmi)

Style of Play


Play a possession based, attacking style that forces the issue and lets us control games
Play our own style that denies our "on pitch identity" and drives all personnel decisions
Always be entertaining, make it difficult for our opponent, and always play to win



Mariner June 2012

“What do you want to do, play great football and get beat 3-0 or do you want to be really smart tactically because it’s part of the game … and come out with a trophy in your hands,” he said. “If you ask the fans, it’s a no-brainer.”

"If you get in trouble kick it long"



Somewhere Preki is smirking.


This sums it up for me!Thanks

Beach_Red
06-15-2012, 09:58 AM
The fun part in all of this is that the quotes highlight dysfunction and lack of vision.

Pillars of the "Vision Book" from 2011 (Approved by Anselmi)

Style of Play


Play a possession based, attacking style that forces the issue and lets us control games
Play our own style that denies our "on pitch identity" and drives all personnel decisions
Always be entertaining, make it difficult for our opponent, and always play to win



Mariner June 2012

“What do you want to do, play great football and get beat 3-0 or do you want to be really smart tactically because it’s part of the game … and come out with a trophy in your hands,” he said. “If you ask the fans, it’s a no-brainer.”

"If you get in trouble kick it long"



Somewhere Preki is smirking.

Preki and every other coach in the league - the arrogance of, "lets us control the games," from a team that could never make the playoffs is hilarious, it sounds like something from "The Office." MLSE really has no concept of the need to earn a statement like that. It's what happens when you're the only game in town.

pekduck
06-15-2012, 09:58 AM
^
yeah.. no kidding.. what voodoo, pookie and denime said...

saves me from a whole lot of typing.. lol

ag futbol
06-15-2012, 10:11 AM
Lots of people saying that this was due to the 4-3-3 we were playing.
4-4-2 is a lot more basic in terms of what each player is required to do. We'll see if this change corrects these problems.

It's going to take about a month to transition into this game fully..urrgh
Agreed, the attack minded 4-3-3 we played certainly played a role in that.


Why?

If the players weren't capable of playing the possession minded, movement oriented 4-3-3 then what would be so difficult about adapting to something they are more comfortable with? This is the MLS' 3rd most expensive payroll after all. Clearly they are capable of playing a simple system they have been playing most of their lives?
.
This would have to come back to the way we've allocated pay to different players no? I remember scanning through the numbers, and while TFC has three big money DP's they have a lot of regular roster players who earn in the low end of the range. I think when I compared TFC to RSL or some of the other teams out there, we had something like 5 or 6 less players who earned over 150k or so. I think that explains part of our problems.

Richard
06-15-2012, 10:26 AM
Agreed, the attack minded 4-3-3 we played certainly played a role in that.


This would have to come back to the way we've allocated pay to different players no? I remember scanning through the numbers, and while TFC has three big money DP's they have a lot of regular roster players who earn in the low end of the range. I think when I compared TFC to RSL or some of the other teams out there, we had something like 5 or 6 less players who earned over 150k or so. I think that explains part of our problems.

I was just going to mention what you said. We have the 3rd highest payroll in the league and should be passing the ball like RSL or seatle. I dont understand how TFC cant find a hapy medium that may be pragmatic but does not become longball, it is exactly what you mention about we dont have a lot of mid tier players on our roster but a huge gap from to bottom.

T-boy
06-15-2012, 12:00 PM
this is going to be hard to watch after euro

if you watch ANY MLS game, its hard to watch after Euro games! Not just TFC games, and NOT just games under Mariner. It's like going from a high end restaurant to a greasy spoon!

VoxPopuliCosmicum
06-15-2012, 04:12 PM
^
yeah.. no kidding.. what voodoo, pookie and denime said...

saves me from a whole lot of typing.. lol

Ditto + add you to the list.

Ajax TFC
06-15-2012, 07:19 PM
I think the key words there are 'if you get in trouble' it's not being suggested as plan A, or the ideal situation, it's just saying if you have to, get it out of there, don't take risks.
If it's just a plan B for when you get into trouble, then why is it that so much emphasis has been put on it in interviews? Kicking the ball away isn't something that has to be drilled into players, its something that you tell them once and from then on they gladly do it. Why is it that when asked about how they'll be playing the players talk about a risk free game where they kick it away? If that's just the backup plan, then why has no one said anything about their Plan A?