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Yohan
05-31-2012, 01:40 PM
Kansas City seemed to have shaken off the bit of funk they were in, and now unbeaten in 3 in all competitions. Still not looking as sharp as they did to start the season with 7 game winning streak, but SKC will have US Open Cup games to keep up match fitness while TFC is coming off a long break.

Will be lucky to nick a point, though TFC did manage to pot in two goals last trip to Livestrong

Roogsy
05-31-2012, 01:45 PM
I am somewhat confused as to how TFC have found themselves in this position. We have played the lowest number of games of all teams this season and yet we have a 2+ week break? How is that possible? I fear a tight cluster of games at some point this summer that will wear this team down, especially since our biggest impact players are all 30+.

Coming off a break, the team won't be weighed by the 9 game league losing streak, but could be a bit rusty. It's hard to really peg what team will show up as there hasn't been a team this year that has been more Jekyll and Hyde than TFC...so I could argue that KC will win based on rational reasons and the VC winning TFC team will show up and spank them. I throw up my hands in the air. My projections this year have been crap.

ryan
05-31-2012, 01:53 PM
Aye look at our schedule upon return, it's basically twice a week till the fall.

Could go both ways, if they find what they had at the end of that 1st segment, they could roll with consecutive matches and get into rhythm? The players themselves seemed irritated at winning vs Montreal, then having a week off, then again with the V's cup + Phil win, and another break.

Our depth will be tested, it'll be important for Winter to manage everyone's time so they aren't gassed midway through this stretch as we gear up for CCL.

Yohan
05-31-2012, 01:58 PM
I am somewhat confused as to how TFC have found themselves in this position. We have played the lowest number of games of all teams this season and yet we have a 2+ week break? How is that possible? I fear a tight cluster of games at some point this summer that will wear this team down, especially since our biggest impact players are all 30+.
MLS respecting FIFA int dates. I suspect part of reason why TFC played few league games compared to other teams is due to high number of CCL and VC games TFC played so far


Coming off a break, the team won't be weighed by the 9 game league losing streak, but could be a bit rusty. It's hard to really peg what team will show up as there hasn't been a team this year that has been more Jekyll and Hyde than TFC...so I could argue that KC will win based on rational reasons and the VC winning TFC team will show up and spank them. I throw up my hands in the air. My projections this year have been crap.
isn't TFC fun to watch? lol

Roogsy
05-31-2012, 02:01 PM
isn't TFC fun to watch? lol


FUN???





FUN???








FUN?????????






If you're a masochist maybe. This team is going to put most of us in an early grave... :lol:

Yohan
05-31-2012, 02:05 PM
FUN???





FUN???








FUN?????????






If you're a masochist maybe. This team is going to put most of us in an early grave... :lol:


We all are masochists. We get off on every TFC victory still... and have scars to prove it :p

Roogsy
05-31-2012, 02:21 PM
Sometimes this team makes us feel like this

http://www.lifelounge.com/resources/GALLIMAGE/Funny%20Motivational%20Posters%2038.jpg

Canary10
05-31-2012, 02:28 PM
Just pointing out TFC have actually played more games than every other team. 18 at this point I believe. 8 of which were essentially play-off games. Some teams are starting to complain about fixture congestion now - well TFC is the one team that has had that right from day one. One piece of context behind the losing streak.

cochrdoc
05-31-2012, 03:01 PM
This team is not going to win that many more games in the league.We beat one of the poorer teams by a goal and you think we are back in the thick of it.We need some serious reinforcements.Our goals for and goals against is still one of the poorest in the league.I can`t believe 1-9 has not gotten a coach fired.What are the excuses going to be when we get our next butt kicking.I would be very surprized if we get ang points in KC

prizby
05-31-2012, 05:40 PM
I am somewhat confused as to how TFC have found themselves in this position. We have played the lowest number of games of all teams this season and yet we have a 2+ week break? How is that possible? I fear a tight cluster of games at some point this summer that will wear this team down, especially since our biggest impact players are all 30+.

Coming off a break, the team won't be weighed by the 9 game league losing streak, but could be a bit rusty. It's hard to really peg what team will show up as there hasn't been a team this year that has been more Jekyll and Hyde than TFC...so I could argue that KC will win based on rational reasons and the VC winning TFC team will show up and spank them. I throw up my hands in the air. My projections this year have been crap.

i believe we have 11 games in 35 or 36 days starting June 16th (including the meaningless friendly)

prizby
05-31-2012, 05:44 PM
------------Kocic-----------
Eckersly-Cann-Henry-Morgan
----Frings-----De Guzman---
Lambe-----Avila-----Johnson
---------Koevermans-------

Bench:
Roberts
Williams
Hall
Dunfield
Sooslma
Silva
Plata

David_Oliveira
05-31-2012, 05:57 PM
I just wish that this league went to a more balanced schedule. Playing a giant amount of games in a short period of time isn't good for anyone. Why can't the mls just go to playing games once a week? There's times where teams play three times in the span of a week. That is just way too much no matter how big your squad is

Stouffville_RPB
05-31-2012, 08:28 PM
I just wish that this league went to a more balanced schedule. Playing a giant amount of games in a short period of time isn't good for anyone. Why can't the mls just go to playing games once a week? There's times where teams play three times in the span of a week. That is just way too much no matter how big your squad is

MLS doesn't crowd the schedule other completions combined w/ MLS = schedule congestion.

David_Oliveira
05-31-2012, 10:30 PM
You're 100% right but I really think that only being able to sign 30 players at a low salary cap is detrimental to all the teams that qualify for the tournaments outside the mls.

With the addition of the champions league, the league knows 3 teams will qualify.

I hate to do this but lets compare mls to Portugal. In Portugal, games happen from Friday to Monday. If a team has a cup game, champions league game or Europa league game, they'll play Friday, euro game then again Saturday or Sunday. I know it doesn't exactly work here for broadcasting purposes but these things can easily be planned out.

Mls winner would be decided. Change the voyageurs cup and usoc so that those winners would be decided prior to the end of the season and all three could be known. The mls could then work it so those three would play on Saturdays the following season. This would allow for the same amount of games to be played just more spread out.

It could work but who knows. Either way i expect a 1-0 win for the reds. Goal by fringsy.

MLS doesn't crowd the schedule other completions combined w/ MLS = schedule congestion.

Oranje
05-31-2012, 10:59 PM
MLS doesn't crowd the schedule other completions combined w/ MLS = schedule congestion.

From June 16th to July 18th Toronto plays 10 MLS games (roughly 1 game every 3.5 days), so MLS can be accused of crowding the schedule

Yohan
05-31-2012, 11:27 PM
From June 16th to July 18th Toronto plays 10 MLS games (roughly 1 game every 3.5 days), so MLS can be accused of crowding the schedule

it's what you get when you can't play games in winter. add in CCL, VC, USOC, and retarded friendlies, it is what it is (i so hate that expression). oh, and don't forget FIFA international dates (which was one of the biggest beef people had with MLS FO)

Gazza
06-01-2012, 01:54 PM
FUN???





FUN???








FUN?????????






If you're a masochist maybe. This team is going to put most of us in an early grave... :lol:



The more i watch, the more i drink. It's a lose/win situation!

FUN FUN FUN!

spe18
06-02-2012, 04:33 PM
it's what you get when you can't play games in winter. add in CCL, VC, USOC, and retarded friendlies, it is what it is (i so hate that expression). oh, and don't forget FIFA international dates (which was one of the biggest beef people had with MLS FO)

Now if you're saying this because you didn't like the idea of tfc scheduling that game vs Liverpool, keep in mind they were supposed to play Chicago on that day, so they would've been playing anyways. But because they are now playing jus a friendly that day, chances are the starters now only have to play 45 mins, instead of 90 mins had Chicago not asked the game be moved :)

Yohan
06-02-2012, 04:39 PM
Now if you're saying this because you didn't like the idea of tfc scheduling that game vs Liverpool, keep in mind they were supposed to play Chicago on that day, so they would've been playing anyways. But because they are now playing jus a friendly that day, chances are the starters now only have to play 45 mins, instead of 90 mins had Chicago not asked the game be moved :)

i'm against any mid season friendlies by ANY MLS teams

bigredone
06-02-2012, 11:44 PM
D.K. will put away the only goal in this one. It is up to our 'D' to shut them down. Let them earn the "Canadian Shield" title.

tfcocd
06-03-2012, 12:09 AM
i'm against any mid season friendlies by ANY MLS teams

The class of the league or its flagship clubs may need to participate in an exhibition which can draw more media attention than league play at this point. It may also be the only other opportunity to draw more than BMO capacity.

Roogsy
06-03-2012, 12:19 AM
Except TFC are neither the class of the league nor a flagship club.


Constantly losing to European teams only lines the pockets of MLSE and does little to grow the game in this city. All it does is justify the Eurosnobs who put down MLS.

tfcocd
06-03-2012, 12:34 AM
D.K. will put away the only goal in this one. It is up to our 'D' to shut them down. Let them earn the "Canadian Shield" title.

If the TFC academy can develop a pipeline of MLS starting quality defenders the club could become a flagship club in MLS and CCL hopefully.

Yohan
06-03-2012, 12:47 AM
The class of the league or its flagship clubs may need to participate in an exhibition which can draw more media attention than league play at this point. It may also be the only other opportunity to draw more than BMO capacity.

has these friendlies really translated to increased attendance for any MLS teams?

bigredone
06-03-2012, 08:41 AM
Although I did not watch the reserve game against Montreal our offence needed an equalizer which was only provided by Montreal mistakes. Our 'D', well, the score was 2 -2 so not sure how they did. Not to great on both ends for us in the reserve match.
The academy teams seem to be doing very well, bright future on the backs of hopeful fans. As for the comment about a flagship club, I think you totally right. Leagues are popping up and expanding in Ontario and N.A. Great times to be a football fan.

jloome
06-12-2012, 02:56 AM
Hmmm... I notice Junior Burgos was wearing the same orange shirt as most of the first teamers in the training vids today. Perhaps a start?

ensco
06-12-2012, 06:20 AM
This is what happens to me. Because it was too depressing, I swore off watching TFC on TV for the rest of the year about 4 weeks ago, figured I would only watch in person.

But I am curious to see what Mariner does.

What should I do?

Oldtimer
06-12-2012, 06:29 AM
This is what happens to me. Because it was too depressing, I swore off watching TFC on TV for the rest of the year about 4 weeks ago, figured I would only watch in person.

But I am curious to see what Mariner does.

What should I do?

Watch the game.

Have a supply of Rolaids on hand in case of sudden indigestion. :D

ensco
06-12-2012, 07:08 AM
Watch the game.

Have a supply of Rolaids on hand in case of sudden indigestion. :D

Your advice should come with a health warning

http://health.nytimes.com/health/guides/poison/calcium-carbonate-with-magnesium-antacid-overdose/overview.html

ManUtd4ever
06-12-2012, 07:18 AM
This is what happens to me. Because it was too depressing, I swore off watching TFC on TV for the rest of the year about 4 weeks ago, figured I would only watch in person.

But I am curious to see what Mariner does.

What should I do?


http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-5RnalAoswDg/T3rGUKYkVQI/AAAAAAAAGg4/tEPjNDr1qOk/s1600/35zuqt.jpg

Oldtimer
06-12-2012, 07:45 AM
Your advice should come with a health warning

http://health.nytimes.com/health/guides/poison/calcium-carbonate-with-magnesium-antacid-overdose/overview.html

I guess an overdose is likely :lol:

Auzzy
06-12-2012, 08:10 AM
This is what happens to me. Because it was too depressing, I swore off watching TFC on TV for the rest of the year about 4 weeks ago, figured I would only watch in person.

But I am curious to see what Mariner does.

What should I do?

Fly down to KC, watch it in person.

T-boy
06-12-2012, 11:56 AM
I don't see TFC doing any better than a two goal loss. If I were Mariner, I would strip apart Winter's system for this one and park the bus "England style" in front of their goal and see if we can stifle them into a draw. I think that's TFC's only hope of anything in this one. I know that's negative - but TFC have been shifting goals away from home - so lets try and get a 0-0 and start from there.

Canary10
06-12-2012, 01:55 PM
I don't see TFC doing any better than a two goal loss. If I were Mariner, I would strip apart Winter's system for this one and park the bus "England style" in front of their goal and see if we can stifle them into a draw. I think that's TFC's only hope of anything in this one. I know that's negative - but TFC have been shifting goals away from home - so lets try and get a 0-0 and start from there.

That's what we did against DC United to no affect. Maybe a 5 man mid instead of a 5 man backline though?

jloome
06-12-2012, 02:49 PM
Frings said in his interview at practice yesterday that they're playing a new system and he hoped they can learn it by then. Doesn't bode well.

Ajax TFC
06-12-2012, 03:19 PM
Are these practices completely closed, or are the reporters just too lazy to tell us that type of system they're practicing? In any case, so much for Anselmi's claim that Mariner would keep Winter's vision, not that I believed it anyways

AlanO
06-12-2012, 05:28 PM
Are these practices completely closed, or are the reporters just too lazy to tell us that type of system they're practicing?
Most of the Toronto soccer press have been attending the CMNT training sessions lately.

Shakes McQueen
06-12-2012, 06:43 PM
Well, a new day, a(nother) new manager, and a new formation for the club... a new chapter in more ways than one, for all of us.

Here's hoping for a surprisingly strong showing from the team, in response to these changes, but jloome's word from Frings doesn't leave me hopeful.

- Scott

ManUtd4ever
06-12-2012, 09:01 PM
At this point, the bottom line is the first team needs results in league play, plain and simple. If TFC plays competent, aggressive, attack minded football and earns positive results for the duration of the season and in the CCL, I honestly couldn't care less what formation Mariner decides to employ for the time being.

Soccerpro
06-12-2012, 09:17 PM
I'm driving from MB to Kansas City for the game. My first TFC game. I booked the trip before I knew they would suck, but looking forward to a fun roadtrip nonetheless.

TFC USA
06-12-2012, 09:50 PM
We beat Philadelphia. That's it. They suck.

So on that note I expect a decent showing but another loss.

DoubleUp
06-13-2012, 02:00 AM
If we dont continue the winning streak we've been on then, this would truely be a debacle.

T-boy
06-13-2012, 09:15 AM
If we dont continue the winning streak we've been on then, this would truely be a debacle.

6 out of the next 8 games are away, with one of the home games V New York - do you really expect a winning streak with those games?!

KGH
06-13-2012, 10:45 AM
Current injury report for both teams:

TORONTO FC -- OUT: DF Ty Harden (R adductor strain); FW Nicholas Lindsay (L knee surgery recovery); GK Stefan Frei (L lower leg); QUESTIONABLE: DF Aaron Maund (R eye hyphema); DF Dicoy Williams (R knee surgery recovery); DF Logan Emory (shoulder subluxation)

SPORTING KANSAS CITY -- OUT: MF Korede Aiyegbusi (R knee sprain); DF Matt Besler (appendicitis); DF Cyprian Hedrick (L fibula fracture); GK Eric Kronberg (lower back strain); MF Luke Sassano (L knee sprain); QUESTIONABLE: FW Bobby Convey (R calf strain); MF Paulo Nagamura (R abductor strain); FW Jacob Peterson (R ankle sprain)

TOBOR !
06-13-2012, 11:14 AM
I predict a bunch more losses as the Submariner attempts to overwrite Winter's programming. Upon the conclusion of the season he will then leave TFC to pursue 'other offers' (last seen packing his anorak, carrying a copy of Fodor's Guide to Dartmoor).

T-boy
06-13-2012, 12:45 PM
I don't care if we lose a few over the next month - but as long as the players look like they are trying and we (the crowd) can see what they are attempting to do. Apart from the Philly game (which also TFC sucked most of and really made a meal out if winning) the players have looked so low on confidence and attitude. Just having some of the players play with confidence would be good at this moment. If Mariner can get players like Plata and Eckersley playing like we KNOW they can - then as long as we see improvement, then the results are irrelevant over the next few games.

jloome
06-13-2012, 04:25 PM
the players have looked so low on confidence and attitude. Just having some of the players play with confidence would be good at this moment.

I have to disagree with this. They've fought like dogs in almost every game this season other than bunker ball in Montreal. They've looked low on confidence in interviews and after games, but they haven't looked lacking in attitude. In half those games they lose, they outshot our competition.

They dominated vs. Columbus and lost; they were entirely competitive against RSL and lost; they fought hard against Seattle, and lost.

This isn't just an issue of motivation. I don't doubt he may be a better communicator, but they hadn't given up playing for Winter.

Shakes McQueen
06-13-2012, 06:07 PM
I have to disagree with this. They've fought like dogs in almost every game this season other than bunker ball in Montreal. They've looked low on confidence in interviews and after games, but they haven't looked lacking in attitude. In half those games they lose, they outshot our competition.

They dominated vs. Columbus and lost; they were entirely competitive against RSL and lost; they fought hard against Seattle, and lost.

This isn't just an issue of motivation. I don't doubt he may be a better communicator, but they hadn't given up playing for Winter.

I certainly think this is true. All we remember in retrospect is that those games were losses, it's hard to forget that at the time we thought the played those games hard, and in at least a couple of them got less than we felt they deserved from the game.

- Scott

Pookie
06-13-2012, 06:12 PM
When players come out and say, "we are better than them" as they did, confidence isn't the issue.

I feel bad for saying this but will anyways. Mariner's timeframe for a turnaround is immediate. We left a long term approach in favour of results over the short term. If they don't come, it should spell the end of Anselmi in charge of this team. If he takes Mariner down with him, so be it.

Win or draw. There is no lose.

Abou Sky
06-13-2012, 09:17 PM
FUN???





FUN???








FUN?????????






If you're a masochist maybe. This team is going to put most of us in an early grave... :lol:


Well, I like doing 100k rides which rock my body, play soccer terribly, looking at boxing and am a TFC fan... Yup, I am most defo a masochist!

Abou Sky
06-13-2012, 09:26 PM
At this point, the bottom line is the first team needs results in league play, plain and simple. If TFC plays competent, aggressive, attack minded football and earns positive results for the duration of the season and in the CCL, I honestly couldn't care less what formation Mariner decides to employ for the time being.

Winter wanted a Dutch style but IMO we are suited to 5-3-2 or 4-1-2-1-2 where we play more defensively and make it on the counter.

We have some very fast RB and LB, as well as speed up top and good distributors in the mid.

It seems to make sense.

Ajax TFC
06-13-2012, 09:33 PM
Winter wanted a Dutch style but IMO we are suited to 5-3-2 or 4-1-2-1-2 where we play more defensively and make it on the counter.

We have some very fast RB and LB, as well as speed up top and good distributors in the mid.

It seems to make sense.
I curious about how you think we would look when lined up in a 4-1-2-1-2

Abou Sky
06-13-2012, 09:54 PM
I curious about how you think we would look when lined up in a 4-1-2-1-2

Kocic
Hall/Eck*-Cann-Henry-Morgan
Frings
Avila - Soolsma
JDG
Lambe/DK - RJ/Plata

Another option is to put Lambe in Mid, Hall is a defensive RB, Eck is offensive, I think bringing him on after 55-60 he gets to run around the opponent on fresh legs.

5-3-2 is a bit odd, but workable.

Kocic
Eck-Hall-Cann-Henry-Morgan
Lambe-Frings-Avila
DK - RJ

Oldtimer
06-14-2012, 05:31 AM
Mariner said in the Fan that he will play a 4-5-1 or a 4-4-2. Any speculations?

Abou Sky
06-14-2012, 06:27 AM
Mariner said in the Fan that he will play a 4-5-1 or a 4-4-2. Any speculations?

I would guess the 4-4-2 would be a diamond mid which some people (including me) call 4-1-2-1-2

My GUESS at 4-5-1 would be:

Hall/Eck - Cann - Henry - Morgan
Lambe - Avila - Frings - JDG - RJ
DK

Pookie
06-14-2012, 08:32 AM
Curious as to why there is no thought being expressed as to how to defend against SKC's version of the 4-3-3.

Seems to me that this style has been very effective for them. Even with our record, the 4-3-3 tended to break down more on set pieces and our inability to convert a decent shot total to goals. Our play, for the most part, is not reflective of the record.

So, how do you counter a team that is doing a better job of executing a system that can dominate a game with a line up that is still prone to set piece challenges and missed shots?

Canary10
06-14-2012, 08:44 AM
Curious as to why there is no thought being expressed as to how to defend against SKC's version of the 4-3-3.

Seems to me that this style has been very effective for them. Even with our record, the 4-3-3 tended to break down more on set pieces and our inability to convert a decent shot total to goals. Our play, for the most part, is not reflective of the record.

So, how do you counter a team that is doing a better job of executing a system that can dominate a game with a line up that is still prone to set piece challenges and missed shots?

Also 4-3-3s are quite good for ripping apart 4-4-2s. I bet he goes the 5 midfielder option and tries to gum up the centre of the pitch.

For those calling for 4-4-2, I'm still perplexed who would play the second striker. We still only have one striker. I can't see why any of the pairings people are talking about would work. All involve playing someone out of their preferred position. Would also like to know who people think are wide midfielders on this team. Soolsma is the only one I can see.

Beach_Red
06-14-2012, 09:02 AM
Also 4-3-3s are quite good for ripping apart 4-4-2s. I bet he goes the 5 midfielder option and tries to gum up the centre of the pitch.

For those calling for 4-4-2, I'm still perplexed who would play the second striker. We still only have one striker. I can't see why any of the pairings people are talking about would work. All involve playing someone out of their preferred position. Would also like to know who people think are wide midfielders on this team. Soolsma is the only one I can see.

This is refreshing, there's almost never talk on here about the other team and what they might try to do to win.

Did anyone actually call for 4-4-2? Didn't most people just want to win a game or two before the season ended? We know the line-up won't get overhauled during the season, so weren't people just asking for whatever would give these guys the best chance at winning?

Canary10
06-14-2012, 09:08 AM
This is refreshing, there's almost never talk on here about the other team and what they might try to do to win.

Did anyone actually call for 4-4-2? Didn't most people just want to win a game or two before the season ended? We know the line-up won't get overhauled during the season, so weren't people just asking for whatever would give these guys the best chance at winning?

Some people have been calling for that for a while now - check out some of the pregame formation stuff. And the rumour is that Mariner is going to play 4-4-2.

I have to honestly say, if Mariner plays 4-4-2 then all the talk about "playing to the type of players you have" stuff is BS, because we have a lot of gaps in the kind of players you need to play that system. Tells me he doesn't know the players very well.

Ajax TFC
06-14-2012, 09:46 AM
Has anyone considered playing Silva as a shadow striker?

SirBobSaget
06-14-2012, 09:48 AM
Were going to see Mariner play "his" players. Eckersley will be starting even though Hall has earned the start. Probably Silva also over Avila, and Soolsma will stay on the bench.

ManUtd4ever
06-14-2012, 09:56 AM
Mariner said in the Fan that he will play a 4-5-1 or a 4-4-2. Any speculations?

I think our current roster is more condusive to playing a 4-5-1 effectively.

Phil
06-14-2012, 09:58 AM
The past few subs have made it pretty clear tome that Ecks should be starting over Hall.

The good thing about Hall is he seems to be adaptable and may find some playing time in other roles.


Were going to see Mariner play "his" players. Eckersley will be starting even though Hall has earned the start. Probably Silva also over Avila, and Soolsma will stay on the bench.

ManUtd4ever
06-14-2012, 10:06 AM
Were going to see Mariner play "his" players. Eckersley will be starting even though Hall has earned the start. Probably Silva also over Avila, and Soolsma will stay on the bench.


Mariner was responsible for acquiring Avila and Hall as well.

If Mariner was to play "his" players over others, does that insinuate that the likes of JDG, Frings, Koevermans, and Cann are at risk of not starting?

I think Mariner is competent enough to start players based solely on merit.

Blizzard
06-14-2012, 10:21 AM
Mariner was responsible for acquiring Avila and Hall as well.

If Mariner was to play "his" players over others, does that insinuate that the likes of JDG, Frings, Koevermans, and Cann are at risk of not starting?

I think Mariner is competent enough to start players based solely on merit.

That would depend on whether or not he had personally brought in alternatives to those players that he feels are better. Only Cann would be in jeapordy but only if there is an alternative to him. Aceval would be that guy under this theory but, as we know, he isn't the guy to do that.

As for JDG, Frings and Koevermans, Mariner's not a blithering idiot. The three best players on the team will, of course, be starting.

For exmaple, it's long been speculated that Mariner is not a Soolsma fan. He brought in Lambe. If Lambe is fit and in reasonable form, he will start and Soolsma will gather splinters until late in the game when Lambe is legless.

Yohan
06-14-2012, 10:49 AM
Some people have been calling for that for a while now - check out some of the pregame formation stuff. And the rumour is that Mariner is going to play 4-4-2.

I have to honestly say, if Mariner plays 4-4-2 then all the talk about "playing to the type of players you have" stuff is BS, because we have a lot of gaps in the kind of players you need to play that system. Tells me he doesn't know the players very well.im going to give the guy who sees playets at training everyday the benefit of doubt

Canary10
06-14-2012, 11:06 AM
im going to give the guy who sees playets at training everyday the benefit of doubt

I'm not feeling predisposed to give Chuggers the benefit of anything. We've seen some of these guys play 30-40 games. If you can't form an informed opinion on their strengths and weaknesses over that time you're not being too observant.

Auzzy
06-14-2012, 11:48 AM
Kurtis Larson tweeting a bunch of stuff from training today: http://twitter.com/KurtLarSUN

Interviews & articles probably to follow. Mariner just mentioned, the way the team is setup today may be different from Saturday. Three WCQ guys partially back, and may or may not be playing Saturday yet. In any case, Larson wonders if Morgan may have lost his starting spot to Hall. Silva playing up front with Danny for now. Peri Marosevic looks to be gone from the team again.

Larson guesses this as a 4-4-2 lineup for Sat: Kocic, Hall, Henry, Cann, Ecks, Avila, Frings, Dunfield, Lambe, Johnson, Koevermans

Dunfield? Ugh...

Yohan
06-14-2012, 12:27 PM
RJ and JDG need a break

Pookie
06-14-2012, 12:53 PM
Dunfield? Ugh...

I like when he plays. I can point out to my son what happens when you don't develop skill with your left foot

T-boy
06-14-2012, 12:58 PM
I like when he plays. I can point out to my son what happens when you don't develop skill with your left foot

I have a feeling that Dunfield would be a much more effective player in a simpler system. Just like Iro would have been last season.

Canary10
06-14-2012, 01:08 PM
I have a feeling that Dunfield would be a much more effective player in a simpler system. Just like Iro would have been last season.

Are you calling him stupid?

Red I
06-14-2012, 01:15 PM
Kurtis Larson tweeting a bunch of stuff from training today: http://twitter.com/KurtLarSUN

Wow, from the tweets, it sounds like a night and day difference from Winter to Mariner. If a change was needed, i'm glad it's not a subtle one.

ManUtd4ever
06-14-2012, 01:27 PM
Kurtis Larson tweeting a bunch of stuff from training today: http://twitter.com/KurtLarSUN


Wow. Either Kurt Larson is a MLSE shill (which I seriously doubt based on his exemplary track record as a TFC journalist) or he is genuinely impressed with the direction, professionalism, and enthusiasm that has been apparent throughout Paul Mariner's training sessions. He notes a stark contrast in comparison to the sedate nature of Winter's methods in the past.

Pookie
06-14-2012, 01:52 PM
Wow. Either Kurt Larson is a MLSE shill (which I seriously doubt based on his exemplary track record as a TFC journalist) or he is genuinely impressed with the direction, professionalism, and enthusiasm that has been apparent throughout Paul Mariner's training sessions. He notes a stark contrast in comparison to the sedate nature of Winter's methods in the past.

Sounds encouraging. The task is clear. Win or draw. There is no lose.

Oldtimer
06-14-2012, 02:10 PM
Kurtis Larson @KurtLarSUN

When you watch a Mariner training session, you realize Winter had no clue how to coach in a pro environment. #TFC#SportingKC


hmmmm... like maybe Winter was too inexperienced?

If Mariner can turn things around, hats off to him, and I'll be cheering him on.

Ajax TFC
06-14-2012, 03:04 PM
Dunfield? Ugh...
:banghead:

I like when he plays. I can point out to my son what happens when you don't develop skill with your left foot
Or your right foot

I have a feeling that Dunfield would be a much more effective player in a simpler system. Just like Iro would have been last season.
maybe, but that doesn't make him a better player. Mariner said that the system is dictated by the players, but I have a hard time believing that Dunfield is one of the best players and needs a certain system to preform. If Dunfield starts, I will evaluate the team by the first half. If they play like shit, ill be done

Yohan
06-14-2012, 03:55 PM
:banghead:

Or your right foot

maybe, but that doesn't make him a better player. Mariner said that the system is dictated by the players, but I have a hard time believing that Dunfield is one of the best players and needs a certain system to preform. If Dunfield starts, I will evaluate the team by the first half. If they play like shit, ill be done
Im going to guesd dunfield starts to givr jdg a rest

iy12l
06-14-2012, 07:19 PM
i'd like to see this

-----------Kocic------------
-Ecks-Cann-Henry-Morgan-
-------JDG-Frings----------
---Lambe-Avila-Johnson----
-------Koevermans---------

Ajax TFC
06-14-2012, 07:43 PM
Im going to guesd dunfield starts to givr jdg a rest
I still refuse to believe that Dunfield is our third best central midfielder after Frings and JDG. There's no reason why we can't play with Frings and Avila or even Burgos. It's not like we have a shortage of wingers so it's not like Avila is filling in for anyone out there.

we should play:
Kocic
Eckersley - Cann - Henry - Morgan/Hall
Soolsma - Frings - Avila - Lambe
-------Koevermans - Silva
IMO playing Dunfield is a signal of kick and run football.

ManUtd4ever
06-14-2012, 07:58 PM
If Mariner goes with a traditional 4-5-1...


-----------------Kocic-----------------

------------Henry----Cann-----------

Eckersley---------------------Morgan

----------------Frings-----------------

---------JDG-----------Avila----------

Lambe------------------------Johnson

-------------Koevermans-------------

ManUtd4ever
06-14-2012, 08:12 PM
If Mariner goes with a traditional 4-4-2...


------------------Kocic-------------------

------------Henry------Cann-------------
Eckersley-------------------------Morgan

-------------JDG-------Frings-------------
Lambe----------------------------Johnson

------------Avila---------------------------
--------------------Koevermans-----------

Auzzy
06-14-2012, 08:58 PM
Some possibly useful info about the KC game & beyond in the videos posted today on the TFC website: http://www.torontofc.ca/video

Including first interview with Danny K since Winter left.

19Barrett19
06-15-2012, 08:25 AM
--------------kocic--------------
Eks------Cann-----Henry----Morgan
------------Frings----JDG--------
Lambe------------------------Avila
---------koev-----Johnson-------
This would be my 4-4-2 with some attacking flair!
Subs:
Roberts
Williams
Hall
Soolsma
Plata
Silva
Dunfield

Soolsma used as ST in this formation and plata as a LM hall as RB or RM sub Silva as a second ST or MF Williams is the obvious CB needs minutes dunfield as a last resort if we are leading take off a ST and play with 5 man MF
Score 2-2 tie

Red I
06-15-2012, 09:04 AM
If Mariner goes with a traditional 4-5-1...


-----------------Kocic-----------------

------------Henry----Cann-----------

Eckersley---------------------Morgan

----------------Frings-----------------

---------JDG-----------Avila----------

Lambe------------------------Johnson

-------------Koevermans-------------

I would prefer JDG in a more defensive role, ahead of the back four, over Frings. While he has some speed, i'm not convinced he can strike well from distance.

maninb
06-15-2012, 11:51 AM
If Dunfield starts I'm turning it off....he has NO BUSINESS being a starter...

T-boy
06-15-2012, 11:55 AM
If Dunfield starts I'm turning it off....he has NO BUSINESS being a starter...

Why is everybody jumping on the bandwagon that they think Mariner is going to start Dunfield in every game (if everyone is available and fit)? I'm sure Mariner isn't stupid! As long as TFC's prefered central midfield of Frings, JDG, and one of Avila/Silva/Johnson is available, then Dunfield won't be playing.

Unfortunately as JDG has played and traveled a load of Canada games, and Silva has been away with his ailing father, the chances of Dunfield playing are higher. But I'm still sure he'd be 3rd or 4th in the pecking order under Mariner (or any other coach).

T-boy
06-15-2012, 11:58 AM
--------------kocic--------------
Eks------Cann-----Henry----Morgan
------------Frings----JDG--------
Lambe------------------------Avila
---------koev-----Johnson-------
This would be my 4-4-2 with some attacking flair!
Subs:
Roberts
Williams
Hall
Soolsma
Plata
Silva
Dunfield

Soolsma used as ST in this formation and plata as a LM hall as RB or RM sub Silva as a second ST or MF Williams is the obvious CB needs minutes dunfield as a last resort if we are leading take off a ST and play with 5 man MF
Score 2-2 tie

With our current squad of players, I would LOVE to see this version of 4-4-2. I think we have the players to play this, and do it well. Plata and Lambe need to hug the touchline and be proper wingers (and not running inside like under Winter). Frings and JDG don't need to be fancy with the ball, they need to get it to the wings and let the wingers be penetrative with their runs.

PopePouri
06-15-2012, 12:03 PM
--------------kocic--------------
Eks------Cann-----Henry----Morgan
------------Frings----JDG--------
Lambe------------------------Avila
---------koev-----Johnson-------
This would be my 4-4-2 with some attacking flair!
Subs:
Roberts
Williams
Hall
Soolsma
Plata
Silva
Dunfield

Soolsma used as ST in this formation and plata as a LM hall as RB or RM sub Silva as a second ST or MF Williams is the obvious CB needs minutes dunfield as a last resort if we are leading take off a ST and play with 5 man MF
Score 2-2 tie

This.

Dortmund plays a 4-4-1-1 direct brand of football. I'd be a fan of that if we go that route, so in the end Johnson would play behind Koev.

Oldtimer
06-15-2012, 01:06 PM
Why is everybody jumping on the bandwagon that they think Mariner is going to start Dunfield in every game (if everyone is available and fit)? I'm sure Mariner isn't stupid! As long as TFC's prefered central midfield of Frings, JDG, and one of Avila/Silva/Johnson is available, then Dunfield won't be playing.



You may regret those words some day.

arbogast
06-15-2012, 03:42 PM
According to Kurt Larsun who was at practice - it will be a 4-4-1-1 with Frings and Dunfield in the middle, Silva playing in behind Koev:
http://blogs.canoe.ca/reds/

denime
06-15-2012, 04:17 PM
Why is everybody jumping on the bandwagon that they think Mariner is going to start Dunfield in every game (if everyone is available and fit)? I'm sure Mariner isn't stupid! As long as TFC's prefered central midfield of Frings, JDG, and one of Avila/Silva/Johnson is available, then Dunfield won't be playing.

Unfortunately as JDG has played and traveled a load of Canada games, and Silva has been away with his ailing father, the chances of Dunfield playing are higher. But I'm still sure he'd be 3rd or 4th in the pecking order under Mariner (or any other coach).


You may regret those words some day.


According to Kurt Larsun who was at practice - it will be a 4-4-1-1 with Frings and Dunfield in the middle, Silva playing in behind Koev:
http://blogs.canoe.ca/reds/


LOL,Dunfield is starting.

T-boy I guess Mariner is either stupid, or he prefers players with 0 soccer IQ and even less skill, which one is it?

I can see it already, Frings back to Cann, boot ball back to opponent, Frings wins another ball, pass to Dunfield, hoof,ball back to opponent. Next thing you know Frings is in airplane to Werder Bremen to start his coaching career year and half earlier than planned. ;)

.

ManUtd4ever
06-15-2012, 04:37 PM
LOL,Dunfield is starting.

T-boy I guess Mariner is aether stupid,or he prefers players wihh 0 soccer IQ and even less skill,wich one is it?


Or maybe JDG and Johnson aren't starting because they just came back from international duty, and Mariner will bring them on in the second half.

Derko
06-15-2012, 06:20 PM
Denime. please fix your spell check and grammer, it makes it difficult to read your valid points

Derko
06-15-2012, 06:25 PM
As much as I value what the posters on this thread say, I am quite sure that Mariner will start players based on merit, after all he is the one getting paid to make those decisions.

Ajax TFC
06-15-2012, 06:54 PM
Or maybe JDG and Johnson aren't starting because they just became from international duty, and Mariner will bring them on in the second half.
But Avila is available, as is Soolsma. But Mariner will be playing Avila out on the wing and leaving Soolsma on the bench so he can play Mr. useless Terry Duncefield

SirBobSaget
06-16-2012, 01:02 AM
But Avila is available, as is Soolsma. But Mariner will be playing Avila out on the wing and leaving Soolsma on the bench so he can play Mr. useless Terry Duncefield

Following the Rogers Centre game I saw Mariner, Ecks, Dunfield, Harden and a few others (plus their girls) leaving the stadium as a group. Team Mariner has won the political battle, his players will be favored. Goodbye Soolsma, good luck Koevs.

DoubleUp
06-16-2012, 01:18 AM
Following the Rogers Centre game I saw Mariner, Ecks, Dunfield, Harden and a few others (plus their girls) leaving the stadium as a group. Team Mariner has won the political battle, his players will be favored. Goodbye Soolsma, good luck Koevs.

:grouphug:

denime
06-16-2012, 07:08 AM
Denime. please fix your spell check and grammer, it makes it difficult to read your valid points

Sorry,that post was from my phone.

Dv23
06-16-2012, 09:16 AM
Dare I say it... TFC wins 2-1? Maybe 2-2.

ManUtd4ever
06-16-2012, 10:05 AM
But Avila is available, as is Soolsma. But Mariner will be playing Avila out on the wing and leaving Soolsma on the bench so he can play Mr. useless Terry Duncefield

If JDG isn't starting due to fatigue, then Dunfield or Stinson are really the only other options at DM.

As for Soolsma, I agree that he is very effective on the wing and deserves to see playing time, but even Winter was using him as a late game substitute over the last several games.

TFCwestcan
06-16-2012, 10:10 AM
After a long long break punctuated with a firing a job change and the sometimes wonderful displays at the Euros, it is good to be back to the MLS. With the momentum of the two wins a distant memory, as is the 4-4-3, todays's game holds some genuine interest. What will Mariner bring, will they be better defensively. Who plays and who does not. What will the new system look like?

Ajax TFC
06-16-2012, 10:21 AM
If JDG isn't starting due to fatigue, then Dunfield or Stinson are really the only other options at DM.
I thought formation was determined by the players? If that's the case then we shouldn't be playing with two DMs since that's not where we have quality. Avila's defensive qualities are an underrated thing IMO. No he doesn't run around like a chicken with his head cut off making rash sliding tackles and fouling people left right and center like Dunfield does, but what he does do is fill passing lanes and close down space. IMO he's more than capable of playing as a central midfielder along side Frings


As for Soolsma, I agree that he is very effective on the wing and deserves to see playing time, but even Winter was using him as a late game substitute over the last several games.
He was also just coming back from injury. He's now had plenty of time to fully recover and get in shape.

ManUtd4ever
06-16-2012, 10:33 AM
I thought formation was determined by the players? If that's the case then we shouldn't be playing with two DMs since that's not where we have quality. Avila's defensive qualities are an underrated thing IMO. No he doesn't run around like a chicken with his head cut off making rash sliding tackles and fouling people left right and center like Dunfield does, but what he does do is fill passing lanes and close down space. IMO he's more than capable of playing as a central midfielder along side Frings


He was also just coming back from injury. He's now had plenty of time to fully recover and get in shape.

TFC has a very congested schedule over the next several weeks. I'm sure that everyone on the roster will get a fair opportunity to earn playing time.

ManUtd4ever
06-16-2012, 10:44 AM
According to Kurt Larsun who was at practice - it will be a 4-4-1-1 with Frings and Dunfield in the middle, Silva playing in behind Koev:
http://blogs.canoe.ca/reds/

Therefore, I assume we'll see something along these lines tonight...


-----------------Kocic-----------------

------------Henry----Cann------------
Eckersley----------------------Morgan

----------Frings-----Dunfield----------
Lambe----------------------------Avila

-----------------Silva------------------

-------------Koevermans--------------


Subs: JDG, Johnson, Soolsma, Plata, Hall, Aceval, Harden

Ajax TFC
06-16-2012, 10:55 AM
TFC has a very congested schedule over the next several weeks. I'm sure that everyone on the roster will get a fair opportunity to earn playing time.
I'm not concerned about people getting their fair share of playing time, I'm concerned because Dunfield is still considered our #1 depth option in midfield. That's a big deal when one of De Guzman or Frings are out so much

ManUtd4ever
06-16-2012, 11:00 AM
I'm not concerned about people getting their fair share of playing time, I'm concerned because Dunfield is still considered our #1 depth option in midfield. That's a big deal when one of De Guzman or Frings are out so much

By MLS standards, Dunfield may not be considered a regular starter, be he's a solid option as a 3rd DM on the depth chart in my opinion.

jloome
06-16-2012, 11:20 AM
By MLS standards, Dunfield may not be considered a regular starter, be he's a solid option as a 3rd DM on the depth chart in my opinion.

He's so inconsistent, I'd make him the fourth option. He has maybe one good game in five or six, and his bad ones? Serious dude, check the opta stats for Dunfield; his passing percentage runs from weak to mediocre, 80% of his passes go backwards and he is tackled 6:1 more of often than he makes one.

If he's our third option, Paul Mariner could be the second coming of Guus Hiddink and we're still going to get run over.

However, tactically, I understand where Mariner's coming from. KC plays a 4-3-3 with all the play wide except in the offensive end, so he's going to drop two DMs right in front of the defence and double up on their strikers whenever they're in the box, make it too crowded for them to get space for headers. Then they'll headman through Luis or Danny, flip the play to our wide guys and have options for them at the top of the box and in the six-yard area.

Tactically, I see it. That's a lot of space and movement adjustment for 10 days, though.

And really, Junior Burgos looked great as a two-way mid in preseason. I'd prefer him over Dunfield.

Richard
06-16-2012, 12:37 PM
Why not Stinson over Dunfield? He deserves a chance like Henry or Morgan last year.

Yohan
06-16-2012, 12:50 PM
Why not Stinson over Dunfield? He deserves a chance like Henry or Morgan last year.
Stinson did get a few games this season. He didn't impress. He didn't do well during Canada u23 games either

ManUtd4ever
06-16-2012, 02:53 PM
He's so inconsistent, I'd make him the fourth option. He has maybe one good game in five or six, and his bad ones? Serious dude, check the opta stats for Dunfield; his passing percentage runs from weak to mediocre, 80% of his passes go backwards and he is tackled 6:1 more of often than he makes one.

If he's our third option, Paul Mariner could be the second coming of Guus Hiddink and we're still going to get run over.

However, tactically, I understand where Mariner's coming from. KC plays a 4-3-3 with all the play wide except in the offensive end, so he's going to drop two DMs right in front of the defence and double up on their strikers whenever they're in the box, make it too crowded for them to get space for headers. Then they'll headman through Luis or Danny, flip the play to our wide guys and have options for them at the top of the box and in the six-yard area.

Tactically, I see it. That's a lot of space and movement adjustment for 10 days, though.

And really, Junior Burgos looked great as a two-way mid in preseason. I'd prefer him over Dunfield.

I would like to see Burgos get an opportunity as well. He could very well prove to be a better option. That being said, I think Dunfield has been adequate defensively, and while he has made his share of errors, he isn't necessarily deserving of the level of scrutiny he has received.

pawlukj
06-16-2012, 04:26 PM
hopefully theres a good stream for htis game.. i hate how i cant watch games when their on GOLTV they should all be on tsn

BHTC Mike
06-16-2012, 04:33 PM
Therefore, I assume we'll see something along these lines tonight...


-----------------Kocic-----------------

------------Henry----Cann------------
Eckersley----------------------Morgan

----------Frings-----Dunfield----------
Lambe----------------------------Avila

-----------------Silva------------------

-------------Koevermans--------------


Subs: JDG, Johnson, Soolsma, Plata, Hall, Aceval, Harden
That sort of shape wouldn't surprise me either with the players available if Julian and RJ are rested.

Which once again reiterates that the freak out (from some quarters) over changing formations is an over reaction. Move Lambe and Avila a little more forward and Silva a little back and you'd call that a 4-2-3-1. Move Lambe and Avila further forward and Silva further back and you'd call it a (point forward) 4-3-3. Formations are fluid and 4-4-1-1 is a step between 4-4-2 and 4-2-3-1. As soon as you drop an out and out centre forward into the hole and play with two holders you're most of the way there. The famous Guardian article by Jonathon Wilson pretty much made exactly that argument: http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2008/dec/18/4231-442-tactics-jonathan-wilson So Mariner might call his formation a 4-4-2 but with two holders, a playmanker, and Koevermans up top it's practically a 4-2-3-1. What he asks the players to do in the formation will probably have far more significance than how we number the system and how the commentators and press refer to it.

(As an aside a switch to a diamond 4-4-2 (4-1-2-1-2) would be a much more radical change from what we've been playing. THAT would surprise me greatly even though it's a popular formation in the league and played by sides like RSL, Seattle, Chicago, and sometimes LA.)

ManUtd4ever
06-16-2012, 04:56 PM
That sort of shape wouldn't surprise me either with the players available if Julian and RJ are rested.

Which once again reiterates that the freak out (from some quarters) over changing formations is an over reaction. Move Lambe and Avila a little more forward and Silva a little back and you'd call that a 4-2-3-1. Move Lambe and Avila further forward and Silva further back and you'd call it a (point forward) 4-3-3. Formations are fluid and 4-4-1-1 is a step between 4-4-2 and 4-2-3-1. As soon as you drop an out and out centre forward into the hole and play with two holders you're most of the way there. The famous Guardian article by Jonathon Wilson pretty much made exactly that argument: http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2008/dec/18/4231-442-tactics-jonathan-wilson So Mariner might call his formation a 4-4-2 but with two holders, a playmanker, and Koevermans up top it's practically a 4-2-3-1. What he asks the players to do in the formation will probably have far more significance than how we number the system and how the commentators and press refer to it.

(As an aside a switch to a diamond 4-4-2 (4-1-2-1-2) would be a much more radical change from what we've been playing. THAT would surprise me greatly even though it's a popular formation in the league and played by sides like RSL, Seattle, Chicago, and sometimes LA.)

Agreed on all points.

Auzzy
06-16-2012, 06:48 PM
Starting lineup: Kocic; Eckersley, Cann, Henry, Hall; Lambe, Dunfield, Frings, Avila; Koevermans, Johnson


Hmm, looks pretty familiar in terms of personnel, but different formation. JDG & Morgan getting rested after CMNT (although Morgan may generally be playing 2nd fiddle from now on). Also, Soolsma on the bench despite having recovered.

DaBandit
06-16-2012, 07:01 PM
Starting lineup: Kocic; Eckersley, Cann, Henry, Hall; Lambe, Dunfield, Frings, Avila; Koevermans, Johnson


Hmm, looks pretty familiar in terms of personnel, but different formation. JDG & Morgan getting rested after CMNT (although Morgan may generally be playing 2nd fiddle from now on). Also, Soolsma on the bench despite having recovered.

So hall playing LB? Has he ever played there before?

Would have like to see soolsma in the starting 11, but it's hard to justify taking Lambe out with his recent play.

Auzzy
06-16-2012, 07:05 PM
So hall playing LB? Has he ever played there before?

Would have like to see soolsma in the starting 11, but it's hard to justify taking Lambe out with his recent play.

From Wiki:

On October 21, 2010 Hall started at left back helping New York to a 2-0 victory over New England Revolution (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_England_Revolution) which helped New York clinch its second regular season Eastern Conference (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Major_League_Soccer) title.

razor787
06-16-2012, 07:05 PM
does anyone have a link to a stream?

ryan
06-16-2012, 07:12 PM
I'm sure the firstrow stream will be up soon enough.

DaBandit
06-16-2012, 07:15 PM
From Wiki:

Thx Auzzy.. He's played well in his limited minutes this year at LB, so hopefully his play carries over

Dkolish3
06-16-2012, 07:28 PM
I wonder who the club will hire to manage us next season.

dantdot
06-16-2012, 07:29 PM
http://www.thefirstrow.eu/watch/127064/1/watch-kansas-city-vs-toronto-fc.html

Alonso
06-16-2012, 07:31 PM
Game time bitches!

Jeff s
06-16-2012, 07:32 PM
This is already a bad sign.
Benches Morgan, imo one of our best defenders atm for freaking Hall. Of course he plays "his" player Eckersly, which I don't agree with.

Dunfield starts over JDG?....

I don't think he's benching for "rest" cause Johnson is playing. He played international games too. On top of that, Morgan didn't even play, and JDG was here in Toronto for a while, so no travel.

I'm already losing hope.

Alonso
06-16-2012, 07:32 PM
I know it`s been said before but that stadium looks great.

Richard
06-16-2012, 07:39 PM
Whats with the mist?

Looks so hazy.

iy12l
06-16-2012, 07:40 PM
the steam is lagging a lot

Dkolish3
06-16-2012, 07:40 PM
Hall gets his ankles broken

maxpower
06-16-2012, 07:41 PM
so, jacob Peterson, our worst ever player ( imo towards the end), managed to get himself a roster spot on a potential first place team? how the hell did that happen?


EDIT: There are way too many people in that stadium to be in KC.

Richard
06-16-2012, 07:41 PM
Haha, we got lucky.

Alonso
06-16-2012, 07:41 PM
Hall didn`t look so good on that one on one

Yohan
06-16-2012, 07:41 PM
oh dear. Hall gets raped and that should have been 1-0 KC

Yohan
06-16-2012, 07:42 PM
so, jacob Peterson, our worst ever player ( imo towards the end), managed to get himself a roster spot on a potential first place team? how the hell did that happen?

KC has a lot of injuries and Kamara away on int duty

DoubleUp
06-16-2012, 07:43 PM
just turned it on and it already doesnt look pleasing. I really hope we get the win.

Alonso
06-16-2012, 07:43 PM
Dunfield didn`t look so good on that one on one

Dkolish3
06-16-2012, 07:45 PM
If we don't make the playoffs I'll be very disappointed.

DoubleUp
06-16-2012, 07:46 PM
right footed lambe at left back???

iy12l
06-16-2012, 07:47 PM
were not even pressuring their defenders

Auzzy
06-16-2012, 07:47 PM
^Playoffs? Ha that's kinda funny.

After seeing the start here, it kinda looks like 4-0 for KC will be the score.

Blowing Bubbles
06-16-2012, 07:48 PM
That sort of shape wouldn't surprise me either with the players available if Julian and RJ are rested.

Which once again reiterates that the freak out (from some quarters) over changing formations is an over reaction. Move Lambe and Avila a little more forward and Silva a little back and you'd call that a 4-2-3-1. Move Lambe and Avila further forward and Silva further back and you'd call it a (point forward) 4-3-3. Formations are fluid and 4-4-1-1 is a step between 4-4-2 and 4-2-3-1. As soon as you drop an out and out centre forward into the hole and play with two holders you're most of the way there. The famous Guardian article by Jonathon Wilson pretty much made exactly that argument: http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2008/dec/18/4231-442-tactics-jonathan-wilson So Mariner might call his formation a 4-4-2 but with two holders, a playmanker, and Koevermans up top it's practically a 4-2-3-1. What he asks the players to do in the formation will probably have far more significance than how we number the system and how the commentators and press refer to it.



This is the big thing - what he asks the players to do makes a big difference between a 4231 and a bastardized 4231 that's really a 4411 with slight positional differences.

A true 4231 has different responsibilities than a 4411. The wide forwards in the 3 up front play much higher up the pitch than "wingers" with 4 across midfield. The have less defensive duties. The fullbacks are relied on for most of the width instead. The wide forwards of the front 3 are expected to press. The center 2 play as a true double pivot not box to box responsibilities.

Gazza
06-16-2012, 07:48 PM
Jagoff Peterson a menace at set pieces. Haha, think i just threw up a little.

iy12l
06-16-2012, 07:49 PM
they almost made it 2-0... mariner looks worse than winter

Oldtimer
06-16-2012, 07:49 PM
No happy with what I'm seeing from TFC. Next coach please.

KC should have scored.

Yohan
06-16-2012, 07:50 PM
this is so ugly

Suds
06-16-2012, 07:50 PM
My god. We look like a pub team in the first 10 against KC.

DoubleUp
06-16-2012, 07:51 PM
All the possesion we used to play with is gone,Sorry but this football is terrible.:facepalm:

Richard
06-16-2012, 07:52 PM
No happy with what I'm seeing from TFC. Next coach please.

KC should have scored.

Not sure if your serious? So soon?

Anyway at some point it comes down to players not being good enough.

Oldtimer
06-16-2012, 07:52 PM
Preki was better. :facepalm:

Alonso
06-16-2012, 07:52 PM
Is it too late to get Winter to reconsider?

maxpower
06-16-2012, 07:53 PM
These commentators really have no idea what the difference between a cross and a set piece is. I have heard them Mix those up 3 or 4 times now.

Yohan
06-16-2012, 07:53 PM
KC's 4-3-3 destroying TFC... bah

Initial B
06-16-2012, 07:54 PM
Is it me, or do the TFC players look a little disorganized? I was afraid of this - they seem to have forgotten how to play a 4-4-2 and want to play a 4-3-3 and aren't adjusting. We're screwed.

Dkolish3
06-16-2012, 07:54 PM
I don't know the GOL TV guys seem knowledgeable

Lumpy
06-16-2012, 07:54 PM
Turn the plane around heading to the Netherlands. Winter can be back in Toronto in a couple of hours.

Auzzy
06-16-2012, 07:55 PM
Not sure if your serious? So soon?

Anyway at some point it comes down to players not being good enough.

Our current coach found almost all of these players. Now what?

Win or tie. Losses are not acceptable.

iy12l
06-16-2012, 07:55 PM
worst team in the world

Yohan
06-16-2012, 07:56 PM
lulz. going to be a long night boys

maxpower
06-16-2012, 07:56 PM
That was coming. Really bad from both Henry and especially Cann.

Suds
06-16-2012, 07:56 PM
That is brutal defending again. Two players missed blocking that ball across.

Alonso
06-16-2012, 07:56 PM
Anselmi is a moron. We win two in a row THEN he fires the coach to make sure we stamp out any possible hint of momentum by changing the style of play....

This fucking yo-yo merri-go-round ass backwards god damn approach to team building has been killing us for 6 fucking years! Keep a coach, ANY COACH, and some of the same players around for a year or two and that alone will improve the results.

#fireanselmi !

Richard
06-16-2012, 07:56 PM
worst team in the world

Looks like were going to hit the iceberg pretty soon by the looks of it.

Auzzy
06-16-2012, 07:56 PM
New coach. Same shit.

Anselmi out now, find a soccer president, he can start looking for a new coach.

Gazza
06-16-2012, 07:56 PM
My god. We look like a pub team in the first 10 against KC.

Take that back, my pub team takes offense!

Brooker
06-16-2012, 07:56 PM
Yeah, blame Mariner.. Jesus christ our players are shit. How did nobody get that?

Dkolish3
06-16-2012, 07:57 PM
Come on guys every one knows that you can't win in MLS with a high pressure possession based style the only way is the 4-4-2 didn't you guys know that. :facepalm:

Oldtimer
06-16-2012, 07:57 PM
Is it too late to get Winter to reconsider?

Just looks terrible, the worst I've seen from TFC in years.
They are a really terrible 4-4-2 team. Everything that was good about the team is gone.

ryan
06-16-2012, 07:57 PM
all we heard all break was...

"You could tell Winter had no experience as a coach"
"Mariner clearly knows how to coach a pro team"


This team doesn't look like they have a clue. Not one.

DoubleUp
06-16-2012, 07:57 PM
Is it too late to get Winter to reconsider?

Yes!

TFC07
06-16-2012, 07:57 PM
Bring back 4-3-3!!!!

EDIT: Where's Morgan?

LesH
06-16-2012, 07:58 PM
What the fuck is playing TFC?
I never ever remember they have played a worst first 18 minutes of any game.
Almost zero position.

What the fucking hell????

Gazza
06-16-2012, 07:59 PM
Oh my eyes! Watching a full week of the euros just ruined this game for me.

Richard
06-16-2012, 07:59 PM
I think the announcer said 80% possesion for KC.

Brooker
06-16-2012, 07:59 PM
They look like they have no idea what they're doing or where they're supposed to be. Professionals my ass.

v00d00daddy
06-16-2012, 08:00 PM
To all the 4-4-2 direct football/4-3-3 is too complicated people out there:

This is what an MLS team playing an effective 4-3-3 looks like. Take note.

Eckersley and Mariner look like to idiotic peas in a pod after that goal. Both of them showing their "passion" while blaming other people for their mistakes.

Gongshow FC

ryan
06-16-2012, 08:00 PM
Yeah, blame Mariner.. Jesus christ our players are shit. How did nobody get that?

Who helped build this roster?

Lumpy
06-16-2012, 08:01 PM
They look like they have no idea what they're doing or where they're supposed to be. Professionals my ass.

They didn't look like that under Winter.

Dkolish3
06-16-2012, 08:01 PM
Commentator said "Toronto is applying some pressure, I know that Mariner wanted them to not sit back all game and take it."

Auzzy
06-16-2012, 08:01 PM
Yeah, blame Mariner.. Jesus christ our players are shit. How did nobody get that?

Mariner found almost all these players. We're all out of excuses.

Seems even for 4-4-2 you need decent central defenders. Surprise surprise.

Suds
06-16-2012, 08:01 PM
lulz. going to be a long night boys

Maybe I should have starting drinking earlier.

We are getting beat in just about every aspect of the game right now.

Oldtimer
06-16-2012, 08:01 PM
The only change is the coach. I'm not even giving him one game. Fire Mariner!

Brooker
06-16-2012, 08:01 PM
all we heard all break was...

"You could tell Winter had no experience as a coach"
"Mariner clearly knows how to coach a pro team"


This team doesn't look like they have a clue. Not one.

It's Mariner's fault we can't make a simple pass.... or they hoof it directly to the KC defenders....?

Am I missing something?


Mariner found almost all these players. We're all out of excuses.

Seems even for 4-4-2 you need decent central defenders. Surprise surprise.

You guys gave Mariner all of 20 minutes during a road game after a 2 week break until you said fire him. Seems rational.

iy12l
06-16-2012, 08:02 PM
Cann wtf was that??????

Lumpy
06-16-2012, 08:03 PM
The only change is the coach. I'm not even giving him one game. Fire Mariner!

Fire him at halftime.

DoubleUp
06-16-2012, 08:03 PM
They look like they have no idea what they're doing or where they're supposed to be. Professionals my ass.

Is that you mariner???:stogey:

Gazza
06-16-2012, 08:03 PM
It's Mariner's fault we can't make a simple pass.... or they hoof it directly to the KC defenders....?

Am I missing something?

This has always been Mariner's team, he brought the players in...seems like the best part was Winter's coaching.

iy12l
06-16-2012, 08:04 PM
Morgan is muuuuuuuuch better at left back than Hall, his speed was a huge contribution to our team.

ryan
06-16-2012, 08:05 PM
Morgan is muuuuuuuuch better at left back than Hall, his speed was a huge contribution to our team.

You don't need speed to sit around and watch the ball.

Furtado91
06-16-2012, 08:06 PM
Its gonna be a loooooooooooooonnnnnnggggggg season. *sigh*. sometimes I wonder why. You find something that works, only to fuck it up after we start to see results............ and now we see another 3 points leave us, and one less game to potentially finish the season on a higher note. I know this is the first game, but the way PM was selling it, We were gonna see a better, a more organized squad and the right players in the right positions.

TorontoGooner
06-16-2012, 08:07 PM
Fucking shite. Mariner was even shit at Plymouth (Plymouth! FFS) What a joke we are

Brooker
06-16-2012, 08:07 PM
Is that you mariner???:stogey:

We're not playing shitty teams like L.A, Montreal, or Vancouver here. We're playing KC. 4 points out of 1st in the league with only 12 games played.

v00d00daddy
06-16-2012, 08:07 PM
It's Mariner's fault we can't make a simple pass.... or they hoof it directly to the KC defenders....?

Am I missing something?



You guys gave Mariner all of 20 minutes during a road game after a 2 week break until you said fire him. Seems rational.

Did you afford Winter the "our players are shit excuse"?

Richard
06-16-2012, 08:07 PM
Does anyone know who is on the bench?

Gazza
06-16-2012, 08:07 PM
Its gonna be a loooooooooooooonnnnnnggggggg season. *sigh*. sometimes I wonder why. You find something that works, only to fuck it up after we start to see results............ and now we see another 3 points leave us, and one less game to potentially finish the season on a higher note. I know this is the first game, but the way PM was selling it, We were gonna see a better, a more organized squad and the right players in the right positions.

It's already been a long season.

Auzzy
06-16-2012, 08:08 PM
It's Mariner's fault we can't make a simple pass.... or they hoof it directly to the KC defenders....?Am I missing something?You guys gave Mariner all of 20 minutes during a road game after a 2 week break until you said fire him. Seems rational."Rational" & TFC have absolutely nothing to do with each other. I have exactly 0 games patience for this shit. Yes I'm fine with them firing Mariner after one game, as long Anselmi is fired or at least has nothing to do with TFC any more.

Oldtimer
06-16-2012, 08:08 PM
My stream froze... that may be merciful...

Alonso
06-16-2012, 08:08 PM
It's Mariner's fault we can't make a simple pass.... or they hoof it directly to the KC defenders....?

Am I missing something?



You guys gave Mariner all of 20 minutes during a road game after a 2 week break until you said fire him. Seems rational.

I'm saying #FIREANSELMI not Mariner.

Richard
06-16-2012, 08:08 PM
:drinking:

Yohan
06-16-2012, 08:08 PM
oh my god.

Torontotonto
06-16-2012, 08:09 PM
two posts
bad luck again

Brooker
06-16-2012, 08:09 PM
Those posts were Mariners fault. Fucking bum.


Did you afford Winter the "our players are shit excuse"?

When they played like this I sure did.

Auzzy
06-16-2012, 08:09 PM
Subs: Roberts; Aceval, Morgan, de Guzman, Silva, Plata, Soolsma

Suds
06-16-2012, 08:10 PM
My stream froze... that may be merciful...

Link 2 on first row is working

Furtado91
06-16-2012, 08:10 PM
anyone got a good stream? mine keeps freezing. and Im link 2 on first row.

DoubleUp
06-16-2012, 08:10 PM
We're not playing shitty teams like L.A, Montreal, or Vancouver here. We're playing KC. 4 points out of 1st in the league with only 12 games played.

If you cant see that mariner has made the football worse then I dont know what else to say.

Beach_Red
06-16-2012, 08:11 PM
We're not playing shitty teams like L.A, Montreal, or Vancouver here. We're playing KC. 4 points out of 1st in the league with only 12 games played.

Don't look at what Montreal and Vancouver are doing today....

But you are right, we've known for a long time the problem with this team isn't at the middle-management level of coach. Did anyone really expect anything to be very different tonight?

Dkolish3
06-16-2012, 08:11 PM
What min is it?

Gazza
06-16-2012, 08:12 PM
Wait, doesn't everyone have gol tv???? Come on...adrian serioux and dan dunleavy? worth the extra few bucks.

iy12l
06-16-2012, 08:12 PM
Brennan will be head coach next half

DoubleUp
06-16-2012, 08:12 PM
what a joke !!!!

Brooker
06-16-2012, 08:12 PM
Look at that. ALL ALONE back post. Nobody even knows he's there. How is that Mariner's fault? This is just as much to blame on our players doing fuck all.


If you cant see that mariner has made the football worse then I dont know what else to say.

I don't judge a coach based on 20 minutes of play on the road against basically the best team in the league after a 2 week break.

So no, I can't see it. We've played just as bad under Winter.

Richard
06-16-2012, 08:12 PM
anyone got a good stream? mine keeps freezing. and Im link 2 on first row.

http://atdhenet.tv/47822/watch-kansas-city-wizards-vs-toronto-fc

kodiakTFC
06-16-2012, 08:13 PM
Can't say I've ever seen both posts before.

We're in the 34th minute

Lumpy
06-16-2012, 08:13 PM
Maybe we can tell Winter its an old Canadian custom to fire the coach and bring him back the next week.

TFC07
06-16-2012, 08:13 PM
2-nil for KC

Yohan
06-16-2012, 08:13 PM
ahahahahaha

Initial B
06-16-2012, 08:13 PM
Don't look away, Mariner. This is what you wanted, this is your team.

I want to hit something...

Dkolish3
06-16-2012, 08:13 PM
Well then how can a guy be that open on a corner?

iy12l
06-16-2012, 08:14 PM
MARINER: thats how i roll

Suds
06-16-2012, 08:14 PM
Well, the two week break did not help our defending. Fucks sakes!! There's guys from KC completely unmarked.

Gazza
06-16-2012, 08:14 PM
KC, that's what our stadium could look like. If we had some competence in management.

MLSE...how to ruin a sure thing.

Furtado91
06-16-2012, 08:15 PM
http://atdhenet.tv/47822/watch-kansas-city-wizards-vs-toronto-fc

thanks Richard appreciate the help.

Alonso
06-16-2012, 08:16 PM
Don't look at what Montreal and Vancouver are doing today....

But you are right, we've known for a long time the problem with this team isn't at the middle-management level of coach. Did anyone really expect anything to be very different tonight?

I certainly hoped. But its same missed chances coupled with shit defence.

DoubleUp
06-16-2012, 08:16 PM
Look at that. ALL ALONE back post. Nobody even knows he's there. How is that Mariner's fault? This is just as much to blame on our players doing fuck all.



I don't judge a coach based on 20 minutes of play on the road against basically the best team in the league after a 2 week break.

So no, I can't see it. We've played just as bad under Winter.


So you dont see that the things we were doing well, we are no longer doing at all.

ag futbol
06-16-2012, 08:17 PM
To all the 4-4-2 direct football/4-3-3 is too complicated people out there:

This is what an MLS team playing an effective 4-3-3 looks like. Take note.

Eckersley and Mariner look like to idiotic peas in a pod after that goal. Both of them showing their "passion" while blaming other people for their mistakes.

Gongshow FC
Reminds me of Jim Brennan. Guy reamed people out constantly but was an awful player top to bottom. They should take his jersey off the wall.

Furtado91
06-16-2012, 08:18 PM
the streams know TFC is done for thats why they dont like to work ahahaha.

Dkolish3
06-16-2012, 08:18 PM
Frings has completed 10 passes so far pause for a moment and think about that.

69Chevy396
06-16-2012, 08:19 PM
ahahahahaha

I have said it before, and I will say it again. The Three designated players on TFC are utter shit, the team would be better off increasing the overall team quality, paying a little extra to sign above average mls players, then utilize the three highly paid stooges and a bunch of good for nothing bums. Instead of watching the TFC players like they were your kid at his first house league hockey game, where you cannot take your eyes off him for a minute, watch the opposition...they are routinely better at every position......every game, every position.

Brooker
06-16-2012, 08:19 PM
So you dont see that the things we were doing well, we are no longer doing at all.

Are you saying we didn't have performances this shit under Winter? Look at the circumstances, too. The break, the opponent, on the road.... We played like this all the time under Winter.

I'm taking this with a grain of salt and not slitting my wrist.

Oldtimer
06-16-2012, 08:19 PM
Watching again. My eyes hurt. Just terrible. Fire Anselmi.

gracos
06-16-2012, 08:20 PM
same old, same old, no difference if its Mariner or Winter, the problem is not with the coach, its the management, and unless we have a few million to spend on a new team in Toronto, we will not see anything different

iy12l
06-16-2012, 08:20 PM
we suck

Oldtimer
06-16-2012, 08:21 PM
Frings has completed 10 passes so far pause for a moment and think about that.

If I were Frings I'd be on the next flight to Germany to start that coaching career.

2-0 and KC should have made it 4-0.

Shakes McQueen
06-16-2012, 08:21 PM
jloome pointed out a quote from Frings this week, where he said they were essentially learning a whole new system under Mariner. That did not bode well for this game, and might contribute to some of the terrible mistakes on marking players.

I'm not going to jump down Mariner's throat yet. Like it or not he's the new manager, and we should give him a chance to instill his own method into the team.

I will add this is entirely aside from the calls for Anselmi's job, which I continue to agree with.

- Scott

Yohan
06-16-2012, 08:21 PM
it'd be icing on the cake if Bunbury scores

Donald Duck
06-16-2012, 08:23 PM
If I were Frings I'd be on the next flight to Germany to start that coaching career.

2-0 and KC should have made it 4-0.



Or we should just let him to be our coach..... :michael:

ryan
06-16-2012, 08:23 PM
jloome pointed out a quote from Frings this week, where he said they were essentially learning a whole new system under Mariner. That did not bode well for this game, and might contribute to some of the terrible mistakes on marking players.

I'm not going to jump down Mariner's throat yet. Like it or not he's the new manager, and we should give him a chance to instill his own method into the team.

I will add this is entirely aside from the calls for Anselmi's job, which I continue to agree with.

- Scott

Yeah lets give him more time...like a year...then fire him.

Richard
06-16-2012, 08:23 PM
jloome pointed out a quote from Frings this week, where he said they were essentially learning a whole new system under Mariner. That did not bode well for this game, and might contribute to some of the terrible mistakes on marking players.

I'm not going to jump down Mariner's throat yet. Like it or not he's the new manager, and we should give him a chance to instill his own method into the team.

I will add this is entirely aside from the calls for Anselmi's job, which I continue to agree with.

- Scott

I agree but these are professional players. These players should know how to mark "Man on Man", no system involved there.

Gazza
06-16-2012, 08:24 PM
#firemefromwatchingthis

Auzzy
06-16-2012, 08:24 PM
I cannot believe how crap the positioning is on defense. Not just the defenders, also the midfielders. It's 4-4-2. Two lines of 4 each when defending. It's not that fucking hard.

Koevermans is not the right striker for a 4-4-2

Alonso
06-16-2012, 08:24 PM
Maybe we can tell Winter its an old Canadian custom to fire the coach and bring him back the next week.


This.

Haha. New style brought in just made this team look worse. I hope they can turn it around just like everyone else but how does making them get adjusted to yet another system 1/3 into the season help? How does firing yet another god damn coach 1/3 into the season help stability? I'm sick of this revolving door and the product that results from it on the field.

Stick with a building plan, any building plan, for however long you plan to, FOR ONCE! Anselmi has the attention span of a two year old and the loyalty of Judas.

Brooker
06-16-2012, 08:24 PM
If I were Frings I'd be on the next flight to Germany to start that coaching career.

2-0 and KC should have made it 4-0.

Should be 4-2 actually so we're pretty much where we should be. ;)

Chevy
06-16-2012, 08:25 PM
http://ts1.mm.bing.net/th?id=I4851685832196372&pid=1.5

Richard
06-16-2012, 08:25 PM
We should all go down to Rogers/Bell HQ and bring a large "Fire Anselmi Banner".

Oldtimer
06-16-2012, 08:25 PM
Yeah lets give him more time...like a year...then fire him.

...but do it mid-season to guarantee that the team can't make the playoffs.

Brooker
06-16-2012, 08:26 PM
Yeah lets give him more time...like a year...then fire him.

Some people are simply saying give him more than 45 friggin minutes.

How come nobody is calling the players out? Saying they're playing terrible would be an understatement.

Suds
06-16-2012, 08:27 PM
That was a shit show if I ever saw one.

This fucking team better respond with something in the second half. For starters, let's try stringing 4 passes together before giving it away.

Eastend
06-16-2012, 08:28 PM
That was fucking painful. It's like watching real life Bad News Bears. No more excuses.

New coach = who cares
New system = who cares

This is not the first professional game for any of these players. We support this club so give us a reason to want to continue.

Dom.

maxpower
06-16-2012, 08:28 PM
When do we get #FIREANSELMI trending?

TFC07
06-16-2012, 08:29 PM
Hoofing the ball to Danny K isn't going to win a lot of games for us. We need to hold on the ball a lot more and build up a bit in offensive end.

Alonso
06-16-2012, 08:29 PM
Some people are simply saying give him more than 45 friggin minutes.


I'll give him three years if only to see a single coach coach this team for any notable period of time instead of the schizophrenic "go right!" "no, go left!" "no, fire the coach!" that the team management seems to favour.