POSTGAME TFC 1 - Phily 0-Monkey off the back!

[denime]

Monkey is off our back,now what?

[ManUtd4ever]

TFC could have won the match handily. I thought the 1-0 scoreline was flattering to Philadelphia.

Looking forward, I hope that I was wrong about calling for Winter's dismissal, and that this past week will serve as a turning point for the club this season.

[Klinsmann]

Monkey is off our back,now what?

Playoffs here we come!!! just need 8 wins and a row and we are 500....

[TOBOR !]

Everybody's still dancing. Classic DK goal, similar to the one he scored at the end of last season against New England. RJ should've had a hat-trick. And will JDG please stop trying to blast a hole in the net from 30 yards ?

Monkey off our back ? Nah. Not until we're 9-9 at least.

[Red Adder]

Great afternoon and great to get win #1!

Congrats to the lads, and fans!

[SKB]

Is our defence that much better or are Vancouver and Philadelphia just not that strong offensively. Has Brenner made a difference?

[ag futbol]

Good to see the monkey is off our back. Just got back into town today and watched the highlights ... looks like we had the lion's share of the chances.

That being said, this team would have to go on an insane winning streak to post any sort of respectable league record this season. The only reason I would hope Winter sticks around is that the alternative could be jim fucking brennan.

[69Chevy396]

Is our defence that much better or are Vancouver and Philadelphia just not that strong offensively. Has Brenner made a difference?

Yes, it was nice to see the team win, it was going to happen eventually, and playing the next worst team in the league, this had to be it. Do you guys really believe TFC has turned the corner? They were lucky to get the win given all the missed opportunities and given Philly's horrible goal scoring abilities. That header by Cann which left the ball twenty feet in front of the TFC goal, only to be shanked by the philly player would normally have cost us a goal, had they been playing a better club. That is the problem here, TFC barely won a game against a team almost as bad as they are, they gave it their all, no injuries, tried their hardest, and scored one lame goal and played poor defence the entire match....if they don't improve drastically sure they will win a game or two, but they will lose them in buckets.

[Code Red]

Just got in from the game.

Highlights of the day:

-Tailgate event featuring delicious cheese steak
-__Wowza in disguise
-Koevermans goal and the subsequent pile-up in 112 (those who were there know what I'm talking about)

There's probably more to add but heat stroke is affecting my memory. g:D

Finally a win. Hip Hip Hurray!

[Greatest Ripoff]

Just got back from the reserve match and another win for TFC, 3-2 was the final score. Two nicely taken goals by Burgos. He was played out wide on the wing in Plata's spot. The third goal was scored by Cordon.

[UltraSuperMegaMo]

^ What did you think of Boa Morte? Reports have had it that he played pretty good.

[Greatest Ripoff]

Most of the match he looked slow and didn't really have much impact. He did set up the goal for Cordon but didn't really show anything that would improve the team. Most of the people around me weren't impressed either. I'll be really surprised if he gets a contract.

[jabbronies]

Everybody's still dancing. Classic DK goal, similar to the one he scored at the end of last season against New England. RJ should've had a hat-trick. And will JDG please stop trying to blast a hole in the net from 30 yards ?

Monkey off our back ? Nah. Not until we're 9-9 at least.

has that guy ever gotten a shot ON target?
RJ should've scored 3 and had an assist. If anyone on the team is struggling..it's him!

Great game though. I thought they played well overall.
Couple of scary defensive moments luckily they that they came out unscathed. I think a better team might have burned us on them. But again, for the most part, the back line played well.

[jazzy]

Boa Morte gives me the feeling that he has a short fuse a couple of times when he felt he was infracted on he just stopped basically before the whistle....a la Laurent Robert of the past

[mclaren]

Nice to get a win but damn, Philly suck!

[TFC07]

What a fluke goal, but we deserve to win this game though. We should have scored a lot more goals (Johnson wasted chances and Frings not shooting couple of times when he had the chance).

Our defending is improving but there are times we either lose focus or play the ball too much in back which causes us turnovers which usually results in a goal. We were lucky that Philly doesn't have a great offensive player to punish our mistakes in the back today.

Kudos with subs Winter made today, but hopefully next game Danny K and Soolsma start and have Plata come off the bench instead.

[TOBOR !]

has that guy ever gotten a shot ON target?

I think he actually scored an improbable goal once. I seem to recall him clattering into an opposing defender, knocking him over and winning the ball in the process. The resultant shot from 25 yards ended up in the back of the net.

I think it was during CONCACAF action. Perhaps it was Dallas ?

By the way, watching this Vancouver v Portland game right now. Highly unwatchable stuff. And what's with all that smoke ?

[Dkolish3]

I think he actually scored an improbable goal once. I seem to recall him clattering into an opposing defender, knocking him over and winning the ball in the process. The resultant shot from 25 yards ended up in the back of the net.

I think it was during CONCACAF action. Perhaps it was Dallas ?

By the way, watching this Vancouver v Portland game right now. Highly unwatchable stuff. And what's with all that smoke ?

He scored against Columbus when we beat them

[maxpower]

we can't even do futility right.

good win though, hope it carries over the break.

[Cashcleaner]

Finally.

[TORONTO1997]

great game :)

[Greatest Ripoff]

Decoy Williams also played in the reserve match and looked ok. Played about 60 minutes.

[jabbronies]

Decoy Williams also played in the reserve match and looked ok. Played about 60 minutes.

He is the second "CB hope" that Winter keeps speaking about. Cann and Dicoy are who this management have put all of their faith in to lead the back line... Doesn't seem like he'll be back soon though. Maybe End of June? July? before he is first team ready?

[razor787]

Call me crazy, but after seeing Cann back, I think I would go with a Henry-Williams partnership for a couple games. Cann hasn't impressed me much, but Henry has.

He does make his mistakes, and he does seem reckless at times (I believe he clattered with Kocic, almost injuring him, and a game or two later, clattered with Frings, and DID injure him), but he does seem to have skills that we can take advantage of.

[Just One Man]

Glad to finally see a win. And happy Kovermans got the goal after catching flack for expressing his opinion.

One game at a time.

[Alonso]

has that guy ever gotten a shot ON target?
RJ should've scored 3 and had an assist. If anyone on the team is struggling..it's him!

Great game though. I thought they played well overall.
Couple of scary defensive moments luckily they that they came out unscathed. I think a better team might have burned us on them. But again, for the most part, the back line played well.

He got one in DC last year from further out... it was an f'in rocket of a goal.

Here's the link with proof: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2Xpo7kCy60

It actually happened.

[DoubleUp]

Good win.

(finishing is very low)
Still need more goals, lots of goals.(shoot first in the 18)(force the keeper to parry back into the box)(LOts of

Better off the ball movement),(watch everybody else in and around the box during Soolsma's pass to koev.)
our buildup was decent! but is improving, but again smarter decisions with football would serve them well.

As far as Defence I say it looks better, but still needs more gel.
(more compact team)

overall offensively they need to support ball carry better, and try to avoid the long ball being kicked.


Lots of work still to be done but we got a good start.

Good work boys!:scarf:

[Lumpy]

We finished the month of May with a winning record of 3 wins, 2 draws and 2 losses. May was a decent month.

[Abou Sky]

No offence meant but to all the 'it was a good win but...' people, just enjoy the win guys.

We are finding our feet again, we have some players off for international duty for a bit which will be good for them, Williams had a month more to recuperate and Winter obviously thought out the Hall at RB well because he is more defensive than eck, bring in Eck, Soolsma and DK at the end after running down the opposition to pour on offense.

Winter played that well, our boys played that well.

As for JDG's shot, there was a hole, the keeper was out of position and he TOTALLY did the right thing, something few MLS players even see, he just didn't get enough of the ball to rocket it hard enough (that shot was on target and saved iirc)

[tfcleeds]

Well, it's now the day after, and the postgame comments thread hasn't even reached the second page yet. I guess people really do like complaining more when things go bad. I hope it's just a case of everyone who was present at the match still trying to get over their hangovers ;)

[Pinkie]

yesss for once last minute goals happen FOR us instead of AGAINST us.

[Rene Kingsriver]

Forget about a monkey on our back Denime, that was a 600 pound Silverback Gorilla we got rid off. All through this run people have been saying we aren't a 0-9 team well based on yesterday Philly aren't a 2-2-7 team either, they stink bad. It should've been 3-4 but I 'm not complaining.

[ensco]

Is this the first time ever that TFC have won a game with a late goal (ie 85th minute or later)? They have certainly tied a few...

[Auzzy]

He is the second "CB hope" that Winter keeps speaking about. Cann and Dicoy are who this management have put all of their faith in to lead the back line... Doesn't seem like he'll be back soon though. Maybe End of June? July? before he is first team ready?

I don't actually think management have put much faith in Cann & Dicoy to lead the back line. As we know now, they tried hard to get Califf, even delaying his trade to Chivas with further offers & negotiations. They have tried to trade & sign other guys non-stop. They hoped Aceval & Caicedo would be the answers (considering the amount of money they were willing to commit to them). I don't think that they harbour many illusions about Cann & Dicoy, but they haven't done a good job of finding & signing upgrades. Let's see what happens during the upcoming break, and during the summer transfer window.

[ManUtd4ever]

Is this the first time ever that TFC have won a game with a late goal (ie 85th minute or later)? They have certainly tied a few...

In 2008, after losing the first few matches of the campaign, TFC won their first game in LA against Beckham with Cunningham scoring the late winner in a thrilling 3-2 victory.

[ag futbol]

^ Alan Gordon, against LA in LA as well.

I think this might be one of the first times it happened at home though.

[ManUtd4ever]

^ Alan Gordon, against LA in LA as well.

I think this might be one of the first times it happened at home though.

That match ended in a 2-2 draw. But yeah, I believe yesterday was the first time at BMO Field.

[jabbronies]

I don't actually think management have put much faith in Cann & Dicoy to lead the back line. As we know now, they tried hard to get Califf, even delaying his trade to Chivas with further offers & negotiations. They have tried to trade & sign other guys non-stop. They hoped Aceval & Caicedo would be the answers (considering the amount of money they were willing to commit to them). I don't think that they harbour many illusions about Cann & Dicoy, but they haven't done a good job of finding & signing upgrades. Let's see what happens during the upcoming break, and during the summer transfer window.

Cann had a decent game last night. As I said before a couple of scary defensive moments, but it was more of a team breakdown than individual players. But I think those defensive breakdowns happen less or at least with less effect when we have a proper marshal in the back. Here's hoping!

[JuliquE]

^ Alan Gordon, against LA in LA as well.

I think this might be one of the first times it happened at home though.
Was going to say exactly this.

Bit sloppy, at times.. but, the lads had a "never say die" attitude, right to the final whistle -- like it were a cup match, as we've been always wanting.

Let's hope they view this as a chance to go on a tear and defend their streak, like they would the V-cup.

Was nice to have a match end just after midnight, here, for a change.. but, after such a dramatic win, I was wired for quite some time afterwards.

[Waggy]

Cann had a decent game last night. As I said before a couple of scary defensive moments, but it was more of a team breakdown than individual players. But I think those defensive breakdowns happen less or at least with less effect when we have a proper marshal in the back. Here's hoping!

My issue with Cann is his brainfarts. After we scored yest he fouled someone like 4 feet in front of the box when the guy was going 1 on 4. It was needless and stupid. He tends to give away dangerous free kicks for no reason at least once or twice a game. And they lead to goals pretty often. I have no problem fouling to prevent a scoring chance, but when it's just lazy or over-aggressive for no reason it pisses me off.


All in all though, still WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OO

WE DON'T COMPLETELY SUCK!
WE DON'T COMPLETELY SUCK!

[MartinUtd]

Feels good to win but there were some shocking stats from the match:

63% Passing Accuracy
41.7% Possession

[Canary10]

Philly are piss poor. Can't believe they "re-built" into the team we saw yesterday. Have to think Nowak is on the firing line.

So yesterday I woke up feeling lightly nauseous. It was a struggle to make it to the game. I wouldn't have gone except I was sure they would win and I didn't want to miss the one game they actually win. As we got toward the end of the second half I started to feel really sick. In about the 85th minute I had to run from my seat to the bathroom. I just made it to the toilet and vomitted like 5 times. As I had my head in the toilet, I head the crowd go nuts over Koevermans' goal.

Somehow that must be representative of something. And I swear, I had not a drop of alcohol yesterday!

[Yohan]

gah. it'd be so much to accept futility than hope at this point.

just finished watching replay on MDL and man, Philly sucks. though they had a lot of injuries to first team, but no excuse for such a poor showing.

TFC created enough chances, like we do against most teams, but for lack of finishing...

for those Koevermans haters, he is now at 3 goals in 7 games, with only 3 games started in league play. remarkable 18 shoots, 12 of them on the goal

[2mil4dero+santo]

Well, it's now the day after, and the postgame comments thread hasn't even reached the second page yet. I guess people really do like complaining more when things go bad. I hope it's just a case of everyone who was present at the match still trying to get over their hangovers ;)

I thinks it more a case of people have stopped being interested after 6 years of futility. One win at home against the second worst team in the league isn't gonna change that...

[Waggy]

I thinks it more a case of people have stopped being interested after 6 years of futility. One win at home against the second worst team in the league isn't gonna change that...

I've noticed a tendency when it comes to Toronto fans. When a team loses, everything went wrong. We break the game down and critique everything. Nothing worked, nothing went well. And when we win, there's the exact opposite. It was perfect, we played great, on to the next one. People just have less to say after a win I think

[Jcm144]

Feels great to finally get the first win in league play, making it a streak! But I have to say the team has to start to finish their opportunities. Ryan Johnson has been awful at putting it in the net with the amount of chances he gets . I recall in 1st half he was 5 yards away from the net, and took an eternityto not only control the ball but then struck it high and wide to the right

[Blizzard]

^ What did you think of Boa Morte? Reports have had it that he played pretty good.

It took him a good 30 minutes to get into the flow of the match IMO. Obviously that was in part due to unfamiliarity with teammates. He carried himself as the experienced professional that he is. He did get visibly impatient with his teammates and the referee at times but so does Ecks.

His work on the Cordon goal was very, very good. He had some fine moments. I think he could be a good addition if the cap hit isn't too high. I think he showed enough .... depending on the hit.

[reggie]

winter did say (boa morte) could be had cheap,where did he play,what was his role,was he a #10 type player.

[Blizzard]

winter did say (boa morte) could be had cheap,where did he play,what was his role,was he a #10 type player.

Yes I would say so. Not flashy or explosive as such but very solid and confident. First half he seemed to be playing higher but become more effective and more involved in the second when he pulled back. Good passer. Winter said that? That's encouraging.

[Strans]

For all the haterade that has been (rightly) dumped on our back 4, I thought they played quite well yesterday (granted, Philly's ineptitude helped, but you can't help who you're playing)

The finishing for TFC was shocking though. After creating the lions-share of chances in the first half and having nothing to show for it, it was really starting to feel like another hard-luck, woe-is-me games where Philly would score a garbage goal and come away with an otherwise undeserved win. I guess this is what 0-9 will do to your psyche.

What else can you say though? Glad for the guys to get that W, and it makes 2 weeks off infinitely more palatable. Hopefully RJ remembers how to score, Frings' shoulder heals, and Soolsma gets back into the starting 11.

COYR.

[narduch]

Philly are piss poor. Can't believe they "re-built" into the team we saw yesterday. Have to think Nowak is on the firing line.

They are dreadful. What happened to the team that embarrassed TFC at home last year? While I don't think the playoffs are in order for TFC because of the giant hole we've dug, I'm fairly certain TFC will finish ahead of Philly once the results get rolling in.

That Le Toux trade for allocation money is their De Rosario trade.

That being said, there was a portion of the 2nd half where the Union were taking it to Toronto and I had this overwhelming bad feeling of 'here we go again'.

Hopefully with the 3 week layoff Koevermans can get into the kind of shape where he can go a full 90.


Hopefully RJ remembers how to score

Yesterday was a reminder of why San Jose was so willing to give up on Johnson. Johnson had a break out year in 2009, which he followed with a season and a half of performances like what he's been doing for TFC in MLS games this season. The guy is known for needing a ton of chances to score his goals (very similar to Maicon Santos in a way).

[Roogsy]

I've noticed a tendency when it comes to Toronto fans. When a team loses, everything went wrong. We break the game down and critique everything. Nothing worked, nothing went well. And when we win, there's the exact opposite. It was perfect, we played great, on to the next one. People just have less to say after a win I think

I'm certainly willing to kick in some opinions about the game yesterday but if you don't like what I have to say will you then complain about it? LOL

[Red CB Toronto]

This was a great win for the Reds, wonderful for them to get it before heading into the International Break. It would have been a real downer for them if they had to sit on their asses for the next three weeks thinking about their 0-10 record.

It was just a wonderful day all around, the win plus the weather was beautiful.

[v00d00daddy]

It wasn't a perfectly played game but the result was absolutely perfect.

To those of you shitting on jdg....yes he's overpaid, but do yourself a favour and watch him for 15-20 minutes straight one game.

When the opposition has the ball in their own half and are making their way up the field, watch jdg position wise. Yes...he's waaaay overpaid...but to complain about him missing the net (actually was saved once well by konopka) from distance is dumb.

Ryan Johnson is paid to score and he shit the bed several times yesterday. Those of you wondering why we didn't win by more should be looking in his direction.

Not to mention the play where lambe could have played a ball back into the box for jdg to tap in.

Many Tfc fans have become disgruntled beyond reason.

There's a guy behind me in 115 that boos everything jdg does and was actually bitching out loud that we won yesterday, although I'm not sure if he was serious about that.

Who cares...we were the better team and we won. There are things to be picky about (like ecks play when he came on) and that's fine, but we need to stop minimising the fact that they found a way to win.

That's what we've been demanding from them for 9 games.

[Chris Wren]

Is today really the day for people to turn on Ryan Johnson? The guy has been TFC's best player by far this season. We won yesterday, let's not find reasons to negative.

[Roogsy]

Is today really the day for people to turn on Ryan Johnson? The guy has been TFC's best player by far this season. We won yesterday, let's not find reasons to negative.

I do believe RJ has been integral to both the CCL run and the current ACC title. If people have been forgiving of the whole team in the MLS due to the success in the CCL then forgiveness of RJ is also due.

[v00d00daddy]

I do believe RJ has been integral to both the CCL run and the current ACC title. If people have been forgiving of the whole team in the MLS due to the success in the CCL then forgiveness of RJ is also due.

I agree and I didn't mean to imply I was turning on him.

He was just an example to show how bizzare it can be around here in terms of people getting on jdg for missing the net on a couple shots from distance.

Misdirected hostility based on salary and roles instead of what actually happened during the game.

After all...post game threads are for just that...chats about the game.

I thought it was a great team effort, top to bottom...and I think, with growing confidence will come more clinical finishing from everyone...rj included.

[Brooker]

Thank you Nick Soolsma. Doesn't give up.

[Code Red]

Is today really the day for people to turn on Ryan Johnson? The guy has been TFC's best player by far this season. We won yesterday, let's not find reasons to negative.

This.

It wasn't our best game but a win is a win. In a season where there has been so little to cheer for, let's just enjoy the win and leave the negativity out for a little while.

[pawlukj]

This was good game to go to.. felt like i got my money's worth, watched some decent soccer.. still alot of bad choices but they are getting better... we should have been up at least 2-0 at the half.. johnson's finishing wasnt there.. but yea.. good game

[PopePouri]

Is today really the day for people to turn on Ryan Johnson? The guy has been TFC's best player by far this season. We won yesterday, let's not find reasons to negative.

I love watching him play. He's always running and giving 120% regardless of the results.

[ryan]

I love watching him play. He's always running and giving 120% regardless of the results.

When I look at RJ9 I see this:

Pros:
Will work his tail off when he desires to
Good physical size, speed
Good 1st touch
Powerful shot

Cons:
Worst strike rate in MLS over past 3+ seasons, really, that bad
Easily frustrated
Tunnel vision can happen near the goal sometimes


Perhaps his inability to score routinely with his regular opportunities forces him to be overly aggressive on the shot, missing opportunities to feed his teammates easier goals (see post DK goal in recent match for an example). With his kind of chances he needs to be bagging 10+ goals, but he's continually proven he can't hit the net and that's worrisome. Great talent for MLS, good fit for the league, our team, just needs to find his stroke and master it.

He's been scoring on the international level in recent time (7 in 18 matches), scores in the CCL when we need that goal (5 in 2011/12 CCL, MVP of V's Cup), but in the MLS just zero ability to find mesh. Hard to explain it. He'd be on top of the league if he could get it together. Hopefully someday real soon it just starts to click for him.

[Yohan]

So ppl are going to hate on RJ like they did to Barrett?

[billyfly]

The vibe yesterday was good.

[Auzzy]

RJ's difference in finishing between VC/CCL and MLS is really bizarre. I feel that alone explains a significant portion of the difference in team form -- i.e., a couple of goals more or less in each case would make a big difference in comparative results between CCL & MLS. (But it's certainly not the only factor.)

Another thing to consider: RJ has been playing every minute of every game this year -- I think the only TFC player coming close to that. This is despite the fact that he occasionally looks tired or frustrated -- and the guy takes a massive beating. I can't believe how often he's been fouled or roughed up, and that's not always called.

Hopefully someday we'll have a decent, cost-effective backup striker for Koevermans, and RJ can get a rest when he's not playing on the wing...???

[MartinUtd]

I don't see this overwhelming Ryan Johnson hate that you guys are all pointing to. I've seen some valid criticisms of his finishing (at least when the ball is at his feet), but nothing too outlandish. Yes, I'm frustrated.. but that's only because we saw what he could do in the CCL. Either way I'd still take him over Barret and Santos.

[Rudy]

a couple of comments:
1. RJ cannot score. he needs to be on the bench and re-evaluate for a while.
2. DK and NS should be back on starting 11.
3. JDG shall stop his long range shots. it hasnt worked, and is costing valuable chances.
4. defesne line starting to look better. ashton and doneil are good.
5. eckersely plays passionately, and he did well midfield and even right winger
6. lets give some credit to Kocic. he's a leader on the field.

[QSIM]

RJ not be our best center forward, but he is certainly our best left winger.

RJ --- Koef --- Soolsma

should lead the line.

[tfcfan2011]

Soolsma looks and runs like a Lego man, but he fools the bejesus out of defenders regularly. That goal was a sweet fake-look to cross it then the cheeky pass inside. I wonder if bringing him in later and fresh is a big part of that...

[Huyton]

RJ not be our best center forward, but he is certainly our best left winger.

RJ --- Koef --- Soolsma

should lead the line.

And bring Plata on after 60 minutes.

[Abou Sky]

Don't agree, start:
RJ - DK - Lambe
Sub:
Plata - DK - Soolsma

Or
Plata - RJ - Lambe
Sub
RJ - DK - Lambe
Then:
RJ - DK - Soolsma

Plata IS that perfect 60 min sub though.

[bigredone]

Criticism can be laid against every member of the club during the MLS season so far. Saying one player (not coach) is to blame or another is pointless as all have there faults (except for the injured). Our evaluation from the CCL to now seems like that of a respectable club, even so in our defeats. Koevs was so determined to put that one in, I thought he was going to take off like superman in celebration.

The team has lost the monkey, but not some individuals. The monkey on Winters back is of Kong like proportions. I am seriously concerned about the injury monkey that I feel is hassling Frings. Many looks of pain/strain in his face and movements.

[Huyton]

Kovermans has played 432 minutes in MLS this season. He has 3 goals. This works out to 0.625 goals per game.

In the last two games, he has played 72 minutes, and scored 2 goals.

What more does he have to do to convince Winter that he should be on the field for the entire game?

[PopePouri]

a couple of comments:
1. RJ cannot score. he needs to be on the bench and re-evaluate for a while.
2. DK and NS should be back on starting 11.

Is Nick Soolsma really better in front of goal?

[bigredone]

Koevs + ?RJ? the only ones that can play 80+ effectively upfront.

[Eastend]

Kovermans has played 432 minutes in MLS this season. He has 3 goals. This works out to 0.625 goals per game.

In the last two games, he has played 72 minutes, and scored 2 goals.

What more does he have to do to convince Winter that he should be on the field for the entire game?

Winter said in his post game interview that Koevs has recently come back from injury (again) so they're easing him in. He will start when he's fully ready.

[T.O TILL I DIE]

monkey off the back?! you guys are all crazy! ya we won wooh, but everyone tends to forget what season were in and still dont have a good chance of making the playoffs.

[Blizzard]

Winter said in his post game interview that Koevs has recently come back from injury (again) so they're easing him in. He will start when he's fully ready.

And I'm good with that. Koevs is no spring chicken. This is going to be a a long season including four CCL first round matches.

I was scared stiff he was going to injure himself when he jumped over the signboards after the goal.

Let's go easy on the man. Winter did say that he will be playing as he scores goals and that's good enough for me in this instance.

[Yohan]

Chad Barrett - 65 games, 16 goals. about one goal every 4 games in league play
Ryan Johnson - 22 games, 4 goals. about one goal every 5 games in league play

I'm not hating on RJ, but just saying.

[Roogsy]

monkey off the back?! you guys are all crazy! ya we won wooh, but everyone tends to forget what season were in and still dont have a good chance of making the playoffs.

I am as realistic about this club as you can get, but was indeed a HUGE monkey off their back and that at least is a good thing.

[Shakes McQueen]

monkey off the back?! you guys are all crazy! ya we won wooh, but everyone tends to forget what season were in and still dont have a good chance of making the playoffs.

You don't seem to understand what "getting the monkey off their backs" means. It doesn't mean the season is saved, or suddenly all is right with the team - it means they got a huge psychological weight off themselves by finally grabbing that first win of the season. They can stop sitting in the locker room with their heads down, wondering how much longer the losing streak is going to dog them. You could see it in the absolutely elated celebration from Koevermans after the goal, and the intense energy release from the fans when it went in. Everyone needed this.

From that perspective, we are happy for them. It was a big win. I hardly think anyone has forgotten what position we are in this season.

- Scott

[narduch]

Don't agree, start:
RJ - DK - Lambe
Sub:
Plata - DK - Soolsma

Or
Plata - RJ - Lambe
Sub
RJ - DK - Lambe
Then:
RJ - DK - Soolsma

Plata IS that perfect 60 min sub though.

We are paying Koevermans' way too much to be used as a super-sub.

[Jack]

Chad Barrett - 65 games, 16 goals. about one goal every 4 games in league play
Ryan Johnson - 22 games, 4 goals. about one goal every 5 games in league play

I'm not hating on RJ, but just saying.

He's a winger being played in the middle. He's not part of the problem.

[ryan]

He's a winger being played in the middle. He's not part of the problem.

He's still a forward, he still has many chances to score.

3 years of the same thing. This isn't hating, this is simply facts. 2.7% in 2010, 6.5% in 2011, and 1G in 915mins of play for a 3.2% this year. 31 shots and only 7 on goal! You can't just say "he's a winger" to that kind of play, with those kind of chances. Just about any player on the pitch should be burying the spots he finds himself with the ball.

[Jack]

The stats are pretty bad. I'd like to compare that to other wingers in the league at a similar salary level. What sites do you guys use to dig up MLS stats like that?

[Auzzy]

Chad Barrett - 65 games, 16 goals. about one goal every 4 games in league play
Ryan Johnson - 22 games, 4 goals. about one goal every 5 games in league play

I'm not hating on RJ, but just saying.

How about goals per dollar, especially considering Barrett's time-delayed salary bomb?

Assists?

I also don't think Barrett scored as often in VC/CCL.

But I also don't get it -- if RJ is not very effective in league play, why is AW playing him non-stop, especially as other injury concerns have subsided...?

[TOBOR !]

Screw this Johnson to Barrett comparison - these two players are in different classes.

Johnson is a far more skilled player and a better creator than Barrett.

I also think that Johnson is better at getting half-chances on goal than Barrett.

When Barrett had the ball up front as a lone striker, or was bearing down on the keeper, I only ever thought 'how's he going to miss this one ?'. But when Johnson has it, no matter the situation, I only think 'here we go lads !'.

So the personal goal rate is about the same. However, I'd argue that he's a better supplier and creates more overall chances for himself and the team than Barrett did.

all this aside, I think we're looking at the best attack this club has ever had : RJ, DK, Lambe, Nicky Soolz, Plata - any of those guys can start, come on as a sub with effectiveness.

[PopePouri]

The stats are pretty bad. I'd like to compare that to other wingers in the league at a similar salary level. What sites do you guys use to dig up MLS stats like that?

2 out of 4 players earn more than him but this is just a comparison within the team.

Nick Soolsma - 29 games, 3 goals. About one goal every 10 games.
Joao Plata - 36 games, 3 goals. About one goal every 12 games.
Eric Avila - 16 games, 2 goals. One goal every 8 games.
Reggie Lambe - 8 games, 2 games. One goal every 4 games.

Why are we singling out Johnson?

[Joe Kool]

3. JDG shall stop his long range shots. it hasnt worked, and is costing valuable chances.

I complain about this every game. If the goal was 3 feet higher he may have a chance but until that change happens....just stop shooting from distance JDG. Thank you.

[v00d00daddy]

2 out of 4 players earn more than him but this is just a comparison within the team.

Nick Soolsma - 29 games, 3 goals. About one goal every 10 games.
Joao Plata - 36 games, 3 goals. About one goal every 12 games.
Eric Avila - 16 games, 2 goals. One goal every 8 games.
Reggie Lambe - 8 games, 2 games. One goal every 4 games.

Why are we singling out Johnson?

I was just talking about Saturdays game. Where Johnson missed a couple of glorious chances.

Nobody is singling him out or shitting on him. It's just a case of having expectations of him based on his talent and previous performances...and he didn't play up to expectations on Saturday.

Not the end of the world. Just an observation.

I don't understand why so many people get so defensive of the players.

Yes...I know they're trying, but when they make mistakes i think it's acceptable to point them out, wonder why, and expect more.

[PopePouri]

I was just talking about Saturdays game. Where Johnson missed a couple of glorious chances.

Nobody is singling him out or shitting on him. It's just a case of having expectations of him based on his talent and previous performances...and he didn't play up to expectations on Saturday.

Not the end of the world. Just an observation.

I don't understand why so many people get so defensive of the players.

Yes...I know they're trying, but when they make mistakes i think it's acceptable to point them out, wonder why, and expect more.

My post to respond to the Johnson=Barrett comparison and that he should be benched for someone like Soolsma who can't the side of a barn.

[BHTC Mike]

Cons:
Worst strike rate in MLS over past 3+ seasons, really, that bad
Easily frustrated
Tunnel vision can happen near the goal sometimes
You missed "complete unwillingness to use his right foot." Happened again on the weekend in the first half when he was in a good position to shoot right footed from outside the box but tried to check back onto his left foot and ran into two defenders rather than away from them.

Arguably it happened on his miss from the corner. Admittedly, he was getting closed down quickly and (quite reasonably) went with his more natural foot but from that position to the left of the box a right footed shot would have curled back towards the far post rather than away from it like his shot did. In that case it's probably the difference between scoring and missing.

So ppl are going to hate on RJ like they did to Barrett?
Hopefully not. Pointing out a player's deficiencies should be about reseting expectations to a more reasonable level and NOT hating them for not being something they aren't. RJ's been a horse for us this year and deserves praise for his contributions. We're a bad team but we'd be worse without him and his goals have been instrumental in what success we've had.

How about goals per dollar, especially considering Barrett's time-delayed salary bomb?
His "salary bomb" was successfully managed by LA last year on their way to a championship.

Barrett was overpayed but he wasn't half as overpayed as people like to imagine. He's an MLS veteran at this point and, for starters, that doesn't come quite as cheap as people imagine. You're always going to have to overpay for some players on your squad and find value in other places. TFC's problem, particularly under Mo, has been that we're often overpaying nearly everyone; particularly our foreign signings (or domestics with foreign experience like Reda and JDG). I suspect it's another symptom of our Europhilia. We love our cheap Canucks but, like Pookie keeps pointing out, undervalue the journeyman "non-star" Americans who provide the bulk of an MLS roster.


I also don't think Barrett scored as often in VC/CCL.
Has anyone scored as much as RJ in cup play? It's hardly a fair comparison.

Even then, Barrett DID score two game winning goals against Montreal IIRC including the winner in the Miracle. The next year he scored the clincher against Motagua. Those were two of the biggest goals ever for TFC to that point.


Screw this Johnson to Barrett comparison - these two players are in different classes.

Johnson is a far more skilled player and a better creator than Barrett.
Yet Barrett has an MLS Cup ring and got to meet Obama.

[Canary10]

How about goals per dollar, especially considering Barrett's time-delayed salary bomb?

Assists?

I also don't think Barrett scored as often in VC/CCL.

But I also don't get it -- if RJ is not very effective in league play, why is AW playing him non-stop, especially as other injury concerns have subsided...?

Becaue we don't have any other reasonable facsimile of a central striker on the team.

Koevermans will start again in the next set of games I'm sure. But if he's down, or not able to go a full 90, we don't have any real options behind him.

[PopePouri]

Screw this Johnson to Barrett comparison - these two players are in different classes.

Johnson is a far more skilled player and a better creator than Barrett.
Yet Barrett has an MLS Cup ring and got to meet Obama.

Using that wonderful logic, well we beat them and went further in the CCL and Johnson scored twice against them, therefore Johnson is better player.

[TOBOR !]

Using that wonderful logic, well we beat them and went further in the CCL and Johnson scored twice against them, therefore Johnson is better player.

and Barrett didn't see the field of play during the final, so not sure how much he really had to do with it... anyway - another discussion for another thread ?

[bigredone]

Is the Donkey Kong on Cann's back? Did anyone notice any positive congratulatory/celebratory interactions between the Koevs and Cann?

The health and cooperation of our boys must stay intact.

[Chris Wren]

It would be nice to look for poitives after our first win than finding statistics to point out goal scoring futility. Why must the observations about Johnson come out immediately after our best game of the MLS season? In all competitions he has been our best player. He has what statistics don't show. He has heart and brings a physicality to the game that TFC needs. If I'm being defensive it's because I feel the attack, er, "observation" is unwarranted. There have been plenty of things to complain about regarding TFC in 2012. Ryan Johnson is the least of my concerns and the timing of his criticism just seems odd.

[Jack]

Johnson's a serviceable winger/forward, but not a great striker. If he were more clinical, more two-footed or more consistent, he'd be earning a lot more money and probably playing somewhere else.

If if if.

He's not shit, but he's not a clinical scorer and he can't use his off-foot. Welcome to our league :) Most MLS players, even the good ones, have two or three flaws in their game which are what makes them MLS players.

And I'm not trying to defend him, I wish he'd score more, but I'm just trying to be realistic in my expectations from him. Koevermans is the only real goal-scorer we have on our team and it's on management's shoulders that we don't have an effective backup for him.

[ryan]

It would be nice to look for poitives after our first win than finding statistics to point out goal scoring futility. Why must the observations about Johnson come out immediately after our best game of the MLS season? In all competitions he has been our best player. He has what statistics don't show. He has heart and brings a physicality to the game that TFC needs. If I'm being defensive it's because I feel the attack, er, "observation" is unwarranted. There have been plenty of things to complain about regarding TFC in 2012. Ryan Johnson is the least of my concerns and the timing of his criticism just seems odd.

Our best game? I wouldn't agree, we've been better this season. Best result, obviously. Let's not get mixed up here.

Nobody is attacking him, they are talking about what is. To suggest he's unlucky this season, something I used to do, seems incorrect because this is seemingly what he has always done in MLS.

If it doesn't concern you one of our top forwards has such a lengthy period of poor striking, then that is confusing to me. Why would the timing seem odd with the chances he missed in that game...that very easily could have cost us a result? Let's not be ignorant to these events just because we won the game...

[Fort York Redcoat]

Is the Donkey Kong on Cann's back? Did anyone notice any positive congratulatory/celebratory interactions between the Koevs and Cann?

The health and cooperation of our boys must stay intact.

I just noticed the boys coming over to clap us for sticking with them through this losing streak. Cann was sure to be the one to get closest to us. But that's how he rolls.

[bones]

It would be nice to look for poitives after our first win than finding statistics to point out goal scoring futility. Why must the observations about Johnson come out immediately after our best game of the MLS season? In all competitions he has been our best player. He has what statistics don't show. He has heart and brings a physicality to the game that TFC needs. If I'm being defensive it's because I feel the attack, er, "observation" is unwarranted. There have been plenty of things to complain about regarding TFC in 2012. Ryan Johnson is the least of my concerns and the timing of his criticism just seems odd.

I agree with you mostly here Chris. Pointing out stats on how bad RJ's finishing just makes him look worse but I'll have this guy's effort, desire to win on my team always. If we look a the stats of every single player on a team that a) hasn't made the effing playoffs in their history and b) set the new low bar for 9 losses to start a season I'll bet they CAN'T be good what so ever.

Having said that, I felt we finally got some "good luck" here in that Philthy didn't get that Ugly goal that cripples us usually. Kocic's toe save comes to mind here, or that amazing long range strike off the bar (aka, the usual goal of the week candidate we have to be setting a new record for as a team). Then we poached one late. GOD THAT FELT GOOD! So that's what other teams have been feeling vs us all these years.

The monkey is off Winter's back because even he made fun of the fact that now the reporters have to come up with different questions for him.

Where I disagree with this is the "best game of the MLS season". I felt we played well throughout the game but we didn't play a complete game. The RESULT WAS THE BEST! But I think we actually played better as a team in RSL just off the top of my head but all of this is irrelevant. The main thing is we GOT A RESULT.

I have such a tough time selecting a starting front line because RJ's heart earns his spot, DK is a beast when guarded to the man but other teams don't do that and he get's more attention which creates space for other players and this is a huge thing even if he isn't scoring all the time, then RL on the right has been potting his fair share and showed he can and does come back to help defend (VERY WELL I MIGHT ADD) when needed. That leaves Plata and Soolsma out. Plata hasn't played as good as he did last year so far, but bringing him in at 65'-75' with his bursting speed could be good. NS has been slipperier than a greased pig with the ball and is playing better (when fit) than last year. I guess it's nice to have options for a change.

[ManUtd4ever]

Ryan Johnson's enigmatic performance in the Voyageurs Cup/CCL and MLS has been a microcosm of the team's performance as a whole. If he could emulate his finishing ability in the VC/CCL in league play, he would challenge for the golden boot award.

[Canary10]

I think we have a very strong starting front 3 in Johnson, Koevermans and Soolsma. And two very good players to come off the bench in Lambe and Plata. Really need another legitimate central striker to back up Koevermans though. Did Boa Morte play as a striker? Can't really remember exactly what position he played.

[v00d00daddy]

My post to respond to the Johnson=Barrett comparison and that he should be benched for someone like Soolsma who can't the side of a barn.

1. The Barrett comparison is dumb..I agree.

2. Rj wouldn't be subbed for soolsma. Koevermans should replace Johnson because he's the cf and he CAN hit the side of a barn and more lol

3. Soolsma has been one of the only guys on this team that has improved from last year. In case you didn't notice he set up the goal on Saturday. He's been our most effective winger this year (when healthy)

4. I'd sub off plata and let rj start on the left side. Problem solved.

[Auzzy]

RJ's difference in finishing between VC/CCL and MLS is really bizarre. I feel that alone explains a significant portion of the difference in team form -- i.e., a couple of goals more or less in each case would make a big difference in comparative results between CCL & MLS. (But it's certainly not the only factor.)



Ryan Johnson's enigmatic performance in the Voyageurs Cup/CCL and MLS has been a microcosm of the team's performance as a whole. If he could emulate his finishing ability in the VC/CCL in league play, he would challenge for the golden boot award.

Yes.

[Auzzy]

Becaue we don't have any other reasonable facsimile of a central striker on the team.

Koevermans will start again in the next set of games I'm sure. But if he's down, or not able to go a full 90, we don't have any real options behind him.

I realize that. That still doesn't mean RJ always has to play the full 90, e.g., after Koevermans came on Saturday. We've got a bunch of decent players for the wings, e.g., Lambe Soolsma Plata Johnson & a few more who can fill in when needed. If RJ is needed to backup DK, Lambe could play a full game for example, to give RJ an occasional break.

EDIT But to contradict myself -- likely RJ is the most fit of all of them now; maybe that's why he is playing full games. Did you see the picture of him w/o shirt during the trophy celebration? The guy is friggin ripped, likely lots of off-season work & more fit that last year. He was doing some full-field sprints near the end of Saturday's game that would have been unthinkable last season.

And I agree we need a more appropriate backup for DK.

[KRO]

Is the Donkey Kong on Cann's back? Did anyone notice any positive congratulatory/celebratory interactions between the Koevs and Cann?

The health and cooperation of our boys must stay intact.

I noticed Cann and Koevermans give each other a big old man hug as they left the field on Saturday. I don't think there are any problems there.

[Auzzy]

BHTC Mike, why do my comments about the comparison between Johnson & Barrett (which I think is a joke to begin with) lead to a comparison between LA & TFC? I was trying to add some context to a problematic comparison between players. LA is much better than TFC at managing almost everything. However, one way they "managed" Barrett's salary bomb on the way to the cup last year, was by having TFC pay a good part of that salary. He was often a bench player in LA last year, they didn't expect too much from him, and they paid him like a bench player, with TFC paying the rest. This year, where they have to pay his full salary, they aren't managing much of anything so far. Chad's started 5 games this year; played an equivalent of 5.3 full games; has 10 shots, 0 shots on goal, & 0 goals scored; and 3 assists. (Johnson has double the starts & almost double the playing time, and his stats are 31, 7, 1 goal, and 2 assists. But both Chad's & Ryan's stats are only for league play; and both don't look too great by those numbers alone.)


However, even mentioning Barrett in the context of LA's success last year, and lack of success so far this year, is a joke: he's a tiny cog in a very big machine there. It seems they were built (successfully) as a cup team for last year, with allocation, a number of aging stars, some side deals like Barrett with TFC, etc. -- but are now showing a lack of resiliency, and lack of depth in some key positions. They are struggling at the moment, but still doing better than TFC. If past management success is any guide, they will also likely rebound & excel again much quicker than TFC.


Why is Johnson's scoring in VC/CCL a more or less fair comparison than anything else? Barrett makes $253k now, fully paid by LA; Johnson makes $138k; both are 27 years old so it's not really a matter of veteran or not. The issue is that Mo couldn't manage his day-to-day roster & cap, and built in all kinds of time bombs, from verbal promises to multiple players RE future salary increases; written time bomb contracts like Barret; blowing wads of allocash etc etc etc all in hopes of "winning now" a couple of years ago, but totally failing. Like other guys, too much was expected of Barrett as evidenced by his playing time & salary at TFC, but it's not the right role for him & he often wilts under pressure. As a backup, 2nd striker, supplier, or "room maker" for other players, and paid accordingly, he's decent. I've never had any hate for Barrett; only occasional frustration - mostly about the role he was thrust into. And can you imagine if Cann was now actually making the full amount that Mo had verbally promised him? It would be more "fair" to Cann based only on Mo's promise -- but not really fair to the team, to the fans, or to reasonable expectations for Cann, who is decent but not stellar.


I certainly don't have any hate for RJ either -- and I'm especially trying to counter some of the overwrought negativity towards RJ that I heard from a few guys. When Johnson is playing striker: strikers are streaky, especially ones that are paid $138k. (He's worth that much for VC/CCL alone.) However, likely too much is expected of RJ as well -- he shouldn't have to play 100% of minutes in both league & CCL; while working as a backup of DK, a primary winger, and an occasional attacking midfielder.

[v00d00daddy]

Not sure if it has been mentioned but I liked the lambe substitution for eckersley.

Ecks drops back to RB and Hall moves up to the right side of midfield. It was the 4-3-3 logic that bdk explained earlier in the season.

Hall able to play two positions on the right side.

Nice to see

[T-boy]

I love watching him play. He's always running and giving 120% regardless of the results.

It's funny that you see RJ that way. I see him the opposite. He gives up way too easily, sulks for a bit, tries again, and then gives up again. He's probably my least liked TFC player right now (I even prefer Harden and Dunfield over him!).

[T-boy]

My view of the game.

1. Philly were AWEFUL! That's why I'm not running away with any idea of greatness for TFC right now! They were one of the worst teams I've seen at BMO - and yet we could only beat them by a single goal.
2. It was a very strange tactical decision by Winter to sub Lambe for Ecks - and then move Hall (a full back) into the wing position. Before that time all TFC's offense was going through Lambe - and as soon as he came off, the right hand side became inneffective for TFC. I don't really know why Winter did that - it almost cost us the game! If Winter wanted Lambe off, he should have done a direct swap for Soolsma.
3. Good to get a win - but without Koev's TFC look blunt up front. Johnson isn't the answer to the number 9 position, and we really need a backup number 9 for Koev's if he can't play every game. Koev's is a real "sniffer" and gets those 6 yard goals - he has the instinct to be in the right position at the right time, and you can't teach that to anybody.
4. The next two away games are VERY important for TFC and Winter. I really worry that if we start losing again, its going to take a while to get the team back on track again. We all need to know that Winter can pick up a team, as well as keep a winning team going.

[Chris Wren]

How could that not be our best game of the season? It's the only game we won, which is all that really matters. Losing is worse than winning, so you can play all the fancy ball you like and look good, but if you lose it's not a good game. I'll take a 1-0 win over losing 2-1, or 3-2. It really is ahead scratcher the way this thread has gone. Don't people ever get tired of complaining? Now 1-0 isn't good enough?

[Red Rat]

getting a BJ after a year in Jail!!!
You know what I'm saying?

[v00d00daddy]

My view of the game.

1. Philly were AWEFUL! That's why I'm not running away with any idea of greatness for TFC right now! They were one of the worst teams I've seen at BMO - and yet we could only beat them by a single goal.
2. It was a very strange tactical decision by Winter to sub Lambe for Ecks - and then move Hall (a full back) into the wing position. Before that time all TFC's offense was going through Lambe - and as soon as he came off, the right hand side became inneffective for TFC. I don't really know why Winter did that - it almost cost us the game! If Winter wanted Lambe off, he should have done a direct swap for Soolsma.
3. Good to get a win - but without Koev's TFC look blunt up front. Johnson isn't the answer to the number 9 position, and we really need a backup number 9 for Koev's if he can't play every game. Koev's is a real "sniffer" and gets those 6 yard goals - he has the instinct to be in the right position at the right time, and you can't teach that to anybody.
4. The next two away games are VERY important for TFC and Winter. I really worry that if we start losing again, its going to take a while to get the team back on track again. We all need to know that Winter can pick up a team, as well as keep a winning team going.

Isn't Hall a midfielder by trade?

I haven't watched the game on tv but from my perspective at the game I found that nothing was happening on the right side. Hall wasn't pushing up and lambe seemed out of it most of the game. I thought most of the play was on the left side.

I couldn't tell if Hall was doing a good job on the right side or if Philly avoided that side or the field cause they don't have effective left side players.

[Fort York Redcoat]

2. It was a very strange tactical decision by Winter to sub Lambe for Ecks - and then move Hall (a full back) into the wing position. Before that time all TFC's offense was going through Lambe - and as soon as he came off, the right hand side became inneffective for TFC. I don't really know why Winter did that - it almost cost us the game! If Winter wanted Lambe off, he should have done a direct swap for Soolsma.

4. The next two away games are VERY important for TFC and Winter. I really worry that if we start losing again, its going to take a while to get the team back on track again. We all need to know that Winter can pick up a team, as well as keep a winning team going.

Lambe was gassed. Hall doubles as a wingback/MF. Bringing on Eckers was successful last match and it was successful this game.

As for the next league games, KC away is going to be challenging to say the least. Houston I'd hope at least a draw before they come home.

[Auzzy]

Chris, head-scratcher why you still react! Most people are happy; a few are not too happy; so I wouldn't exaggerate. About what is to be expected with a 1-9 record & a last-minute win over a poor team. Plus, unhappy people are always more likely to comment than happy people. Finally, we're discussing the performance of a few individual players, roster decisions, etc. in order to keep this conversation interesting.

Would you be "happier" if the thread went something like this?

"Yeah we finally won a game although it was a bit close."

"^ I agree +1"

"^^ +2"

"^^^ +3 !!1!1!one!!! ;)"

[v00d00daddy]

How could that not be our best game of the season? It's the only game we won, which is all that really matters. Losing is worse than winning, so you can play all the fancy ball you like and look good, but if you lose it's not a good game. I'll take a 1-0 win over losing 2-1, or 3-2. It really is ahead scratcher the way this thread has gone. Don't people ever get tired of complaining? Now 1-0 isn't good enough?

It's obviously the best result of the season but I'd agree that it wasn't our best played game.

Probably our best player defensive game but not nearly the best game in terms of:

-movement off the ball
-finishing around goal
-set plays

There's lots of room for improvement which is nice to see. It didn't take a perfect game on TFCs part to get a result. That's encouraging.

[WestStandGeoff]

I hope you mean after being released from a year in jail!!!

g:D

[ryan]

Aye it would be nice not to have all that scruff down there for a change....

[Red Rat]

^^ well 13 months
and I must add, my hands were tingling the day after

[Auzzy]

I hope you mean after being released from a year in jail!!!

g:D

context really missing after getting merged in here...

[Jack]

How could that not be our best game of the season? It's the only game we won, which is all that really matters. Losing is worse than winning, so you can play all the fancy ball you like and look good, but if you lose it's not a good game. I'll take a 1-0 win over losing 2-1, or 3-2. It really is ahead scratcher the way this thread has gone. Don't people ever get tired of complaining? Now 1-0 isn't good enough?

You don't have to be the best team to win the game. You don't have to play your best game to win the game. So I'd agree that, while it was our best result of the season, it was far from our best-played match.

The Salt Lake game was a much better showing, but we were up against a much better opponent.

[TOBOR !]

I thought when we won our first game of the season it would be exactly like it was when Dichio scored our first ever goal... well, it wasn't.

It wasn't even the same as when Canizalez ended our longest scoring drought.

It wasn't so much a feeling of elation as it was more one of relief.

[ryan]

How could that not be our best game of the season? It's the only game we won, which is all that really matters. Losing is worse than winning, so you can play all the fancy ball you like and look good, but if you lose it's not a good game. I'll take a 1-0 win over losing 2-1, or 3-2. It really is ahead scratcher the way this thread has gone. Don't people ever get tired of complaining? Now 1-0 isn't good enough?

I think our 2-0 win over Montreal in the V's cup was a better performance by far, probably our best look of this season.

Nobody is complaining mate, they just don't see "win = greater performance" like you're expressing. I don't think anyone said 1-0 isn't good enough either...

Everyone is happy with the win, just don't think you'll win as often as you'll lose when you fail to score those shots. Sure we've played better and lost this year, but I think a larger sample size will see the better performances getting you more points in the long run. Excluding ourselves, you don't get an easier match than Philly at home right now, lets not forget that.

[Roogsy]

How could that not be our best game of the season? It's the only game we won, which is all that really matters. Losing is worse than winning, so you can play all the fancy ball you like and look good, but if you lose it's not a good game. I'll take a 1-0 win over losing 2-1, or 3-2. It really is ahead scratcher the way this thread has gone. Don't people ever get tired of complaining? Now 1-0 isn't good enough?

I don't really hear anyone making big complaints of the win (therefore complaining about the "complaints" is somewhat of a headscratcher), but some (like myself) were not overly impressed by the way TFC played. Personally, I believe we definitely played better on Wednesday against Vancouver and played better even in a couple of the losses we suffered where luck didn't go our way earlier in the season. This was truly the case of two bad teams where one team was just worse than the other, in this case Philly was the lesser of the two. Had we been facing even a middle-of-the-table team, I think there is a good possibility we would have lost. Philly was just awful and we looked barely interested in taking the 3 points from them. Going into the final minutes of the game, this looked to be going into a well-deserved draw for both teams as neither deserved the win. I doubt few would disagree with that. Therefore, the analysis automatically turns to whether the win means we are improving and will get better results coming up? Or does it mean our league form is still pretty much the same and we will get more of the usual this year? That's why the discussion hasn't turned into a TFC fellatio festival...

[Jack]

I delighted we got an ugly win. It's better than a pretty loss, but I'm not going to blow sunshine up anyone's ass and say that was our best performance of the year. Against most other MLS teams, we'd have had a different result.

But I'll take it. And another dozen like it.

[Roogsy]

You don't have to be the best team to win the game. You don't have to play your best game to win the game. So I'd agree that, while it was our best result of the season, it was far from our best-played match.

The Salt Lake game was a much better showing, but we were up against a much better opponent.

Agreed...and a bit of bad luck as I think we could have squeezed a draw out of that RSL game.

[Jack]

Agreed...and a bit of bad luck as I think we could have squeezed a draw out of that RSL game.
Two posts and a missed penalty :facepalm: :(

That game was a real kick in the balls as I think they could have turned a bit of a corner there.

[Canary10]

I don't really hear anyone making big complaints of the win (therefore complaining about the "complaints" is somewhat of a headscratcher), but some (like myself) were not overly impressed by the way TFC played. Personally, I believe we definitely played better on Wednesday against Vancouver and played better even in a couple of the losses we suffered where luck didn't go our way earlier in the season. This was truly the case of two bad teams where one team was just worse than the other, in this case Philly was the lesser of the two. Had we been facing even a middle-of-the-table team, I think there is a good possibility we would have lost. Philly was just awful and we looked barely interested in taking the 3 points from them. Going into the final minutes of the game, this looked to be going into a well-deserved draw for both teams as neither deserved the win. I doubt few would disagree with that. Therefore, the analysis automatically turns to whether the win means we are improving and will get better results coming up? Or does it mean our league form is still pretty much the same and we will get more of the usual this year? That's why the discussion hasn't turned into a TFC fellatio festival...

Ha! Lol.

[Jack]

I mean, it's been a fun week. The Vancouver post-game memes were awesome and then we get a win. I'm happy, but still realistic.

[Auzzy]

Two posts and a missed penalty :facepalm: :(

That game was a real kick in the balls as I think they could have turned a bit of a corner there.

And penalty missed by Frings, who had scored on over 20 consecutive penalty kicks before that... :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:

[Fort York Redcoat]

It would be nice to look for poitives after our first win than finding statistics to point out goal scoring futility. Why must the observations about Johnson come out immediately after our best game of the MLS season? In all competitions he has been our best player. He has what statistics don't show. He has heart and brings a physicality to the game that TFC needs. If I'm being defensive it's because I feel the attack, er, "observation" is unwarranted. There have been plenty of things to complain about regarding TFC in 2012. Ryan Johnson is the least of my concerns and the timing of his criticism just seems odd.


How could that not be our best game of the season? It's the only game we won, which is all that really matters. Losing is worse than winning, so you can play all the fancy ball you like and look good, but if you lose it's not a good game. I'll take a 1-0 win over losing 2-1, or 3-2. It really is ahead scratcher the way this thread has gone. Don't people ever get tired of complaining? Now 1-0 isn't good enough?

Our best game? Close. Our best result this season in the league. I share your sentiment when seeing people tempering themselves over this kind of win. It's that first one that puts the losing streak to bed but I think this is a case of people not wanting to get too excited for it being taken as naive.

It was an important win regardless if you look at from the half full or half empty mentality the first step has been taken and the first win has been won. Now we can carry that for the weeks to come and look to improve to hope to get something out of KC next.

[Chris Wren]

I never said that was the most beautiful, well executed, precision passing game. Is that what people care about? I care about wins and loses. I care that we scored the late goal rather than conceded it. I'm saying it was our best game because we won and showed some heart. I'm not asking for a "TFC fellacio festival", but the fact that people are so into focusing on the negatives is sad. I'm not trying to fool myself or anyone else into thinking we're a contender all of a sudden, I just don't always need to be pessimistic.

[Abou Sky]

I thought when we won our first game of the season it would be exactly like it was when Dichio scored our first ever goal... well, it wasn't.

It wasn't even the same as when Canizalez ended our longest scoring drought.

It wasn't so much a feeling of elation as it was more one of relief.

Speak for yourself :p

I for one was ELATED!

[Greatest Ripoff]

Barret = $253K

Johnson = $137K

[swansea_afc]

hi everyone

not a regular on here but my 2 cents on the game. in attending, what i saw live seemed different from what i have seen on tv. in the past, lots of blame has been put on the defence for being disorganized. on saturday i thought cann and the defence was pretty solid for the most part. i suppose the fact they they aren't leaking goals over the past few games is proof?

however, i thought there was a HUGE open space in the middle of the field, especially in the 2nd half. silva seemed pretty invisible. de guzman wasn't too strong either. he seemed to be a step off his marker...and fouled a lot out of desperation. that surprised me a bit. i thought he'd find his task a bit easier with his pedigree....frings is great but cannot be both offensive and defensive. he needs to play off of someone directly. a real work horse who wins balls and lets him do the rest.

so back to the defenders... it is hard to defend when the opponent is running at you at and has space to knock it around. win the middle and the defence has it easy. so maybe it was a different scenario on saturday, but i find it hard to criticize the defenders for their play when their opponents seemed to find so much room.

also, regarding style of play....the union seemed to work more as a unit, moving the ball upfield cohesively. no, they weren't too successful, but they did apply pressure as a team (as evident in the second half). toronto seems much more eager to "spring" their forwards (i.e. plata). again, a bit more of a central midfield presence will really help this team. a bit more size and SPEED here is, to me at least, what they need. i think this style of play really stretches the field and is pretty dangerous for a counter attack.

lastly....i am surprised that a midfielder is what is seemingly needed! i would have never thought this until i saw what i saw on saturday. but i'd be looking for one more key person in the middle of the park to dominate. i am sure many will disagree.....but as long as the pitch is so stretched out, it will be chaotic.

[Auzzy]

I never said that was the most beautiful, well executed, precision passing game. Is that what people care about? I care about wins and loses. I care that we scored the late goal rather than conceded it. I'm saying it was our best game because we won and showed some heart. I'm not asking for a "TFC fellacio festival", but the fact that people are so into focusing on the negatives is sad. I'm not trying to fool myself or anyone else into thinking we're a contender all of a sudden, I just don't always need to be pessimistic.

Wow. A number of "people" took time to respond to your message, with a couple of different opinions & nuances. Did you even read the responses? Did you read mine?

I give up, not worth it, can't make progress in a conversation if it's not a conversation.

[ryan]

Wow. A number of "people" took time to respond to your message, with a couple of different opinions & nuances. Did you even read the responses? Did you read mine?

I give up, not worth it, can't make progress in a conversation if it's not a conversation.

I don't think anyone is being pessimistic really, just very levelheaded and honest about the situation at hand...which I think is good for us rather than having our usual pro/anti winter wars all the bloody time. :D

[Auzzy]

I don't think anyone is being pessimistic really, just very levelheaded and honest about the situation at hand...which I think is good for us rather than having our usual pro/anti winter wars all the bloody time. :D

Agreed! IMO a few people may be a bit too pessimistic about Ryan Johnson or whatever -- but that's just my opinion & that's OK as well!

[bigredone]

I noticed Cann and Koevermans give each other a big old man hug as they left the field on Saturday. I don't think there are any problems there.

Toooo sweeeeeeet!!!! I didnt notice that, thanks!!!

[bigredone]

I'm glad Koevs took his spanking graciously!

[BHTC Mike]

Screw this Johnson to Barrett comparison - these two players are in different classes.

Johnson is a far more skilled player and a better creator than Barrett. Yet Barrett has an MLS Cup ring and got to meet Obama.

Yet Barrett has an MLS Cup ring and got to meet Obama.


Using that wonderful logic, well we beat them and went further in the CCL and Johnson scored twice against them, therefore Johnson is better player.
Point to where I said Barrett was better. The point is that both he AND RJ can both be useful contributors to an MLS team.

And for the record Tobor, Barrett would have started in the final if he hadn't injured his ankle in training in the week leading up to the game. He started all of the Galaxy's previous playoff games before being substituted in the second half. Suggesting that Ryan Johnson is in a radically different class of player is hyperbole. Jack nails it in post #98.

[BHTC Mike]

BHTC Mike, why do my comments about the comparison between Johnson & Barrett (which I think is a joke to begin with) lead to a comparison between LA & TFC?

[...]

I certainly don't have any hate for RJ either -- and I'm especially trying to counter some of the overwrought negativity towards RJ that I heard from a few guys. When Johnson is playing striker: strikers are streaky, especially ones that are paid $138k. (He's worth that much for VC/CCL alone.) However, likely too much is expected of RJ as well -- he shouldn't have to play 100% of minutes in both league & CCL; while working as a backup of DK, a primary winger, and an occasional attacking midfielder.
Honestly, I don't think we disagree on much.

I'd rather have RJ on $138K than Barrett on ~$250K too. He's very, very good value for that level of money. But $250K for a guy who, most times, can get you 6-8 goals a year as a consistent starter with a "good year" being closer to 10 while also doing a ton of running to stretch and pressure defenses? That's not an unmanagable "salary bomb" in MLS.

Your point about Barrett being a cog in a bigger machine is perfect. But we need more cogs (like him an RJ)! I remember making a statement, back in '08 after he first arrived and actually scored some goals, to the effect that "with a team of 11 Chad Barrett's you could win the league." I spent all of 2009 regretting that statement! But the more and more I watch MLS the more that seems closer to the truth.

[A Stick]

hi everyone

not a regular on here but my 2 cents on the game. in attending, what i saw live seemed different from what i have seen on tv. in the past, lots of blame has been put on the defence for being disorganized. on saturday i thought cann and the defence was pretty solid for the most part. i suppose the fact they they aren't leaking goals over the past few games is proof?

however, i thought there was a HUGE open space in the middle of the field, especially in the 2nd half. silva seemed pretty invisible. de guzman wasn't too strong either. he seemed to be a step off his marker...and fouled a lot out of desperation. that surprised me a bit. i thought he'd find his task a bit easier with his pedigree....frings is great but cannot be both offensive and defensive. he needs to play off of someone directly. a real work horse who wins balls and lets him do the rest.

so back to the defenders... it is hard to defend when the opponent is running at you at and has space to knock it around. win the middle and the defence has it easy. so maybe it was a different scenario on saturday, but i find it hard to criticize the defenders for their play when their opponents seemed to find so much room.

also, regarding style of play....the union seemed to work more as a unit, moving the ball upfield cohesively. no, they weren't too successful, but they did apply pressure as a team (as evident in the second half). toronto seems much more eager to "spring" their forwards (i.e. plata). again, a bit more of a central midfield presence will really help this team. a bit more size and SPEED here is, to me at least, what they need. i think this style of play really stretches the field and is pretty dangerous for a counter attack.

lastly....i am surprised that a midfielder is what is seemingly needed! i would have never thought this until i saw what i saw on saturday. but i'd be looking for one more key person in the middle of the park to dominate. i am sure many will disagree.....but as long as the pitch is so stretched out, it will be chaotic.


Very good observation Swansea and I think you've nailed. It is the system that is killing this team. On Wednesday they played a 4-4-1 formation after DeGuzman got kicked out and they looked like a totally different team. They controlled the ball very well and had a lot of possession. I really think they need to pack the midfield (4-5-1 or play a more traditional 4-4-2). DeGuzman and Frings are slow and when you only play with only 3 midfielders and the wingers don't track back, space for the opposition to counter attack is wide open. Caan is also too slow and his distribution is shocking. He is pretty good in the air though. Henry has really improved (still only 19) and he has made a difference in the back four. I agree that they need a dominating midfielder but they also need another dominating central defender.

[T.O TILL I DIE]

You don't seem to understand what "getting the monkey off their backs" means. It doesn't mean the season is saved, or suddenly all is right with the team - it means they got a huge psychological weight off themselves by finally grabbing that first win of the season. They can stop sitting in the locker room with their heads down, wondering how much longer the losing streak is going to dog them. You could see it in the absolutely elated celebration from Koevermans after the goal, and the intense energy release from the fans when it went in. Everyone needed this.

From that perspective, we are happy for them. It was a big win. I hardly think anyone has forgotten what position we are in this season.

- Scott


truee true, but the way the fans on this board are reacting to ONE win in the MLS season is a bit crazy. Last week everyone wanted Tfc's heads,"protesting, leaving the match, Tifos of showing your ass to the club lol.. like this is what im more getting at, not the fact the the players "got the monkey off there back"

[denime]

truee true, but the way the fans on this board are reacting to ONE win in the MLS season is a bit crazy. Last week everyone wanted Tfc's heads,"protesting, leaving the match, Tifos of showing your ass to the club lol.. like this is what im more getting at, not the fact the the players "got the monkey off there back"

What do you expect from fans it wasn't the ONE win it was the FIRST win in 10 league games,FFS.

3-4 people are not everyone on this board,if you were reading the board lately you should know by now that majority(not everyone) wanted to do nothing,just because few people suggested to do something that's far from everyone.

[Abou Sky]

You have to admit, TFC fans have the attention span of a goldfish...

CONCACAF semi finals, V-Cup, pretty decent play. 4 of 9 losses really were hard luck.

Anyway, I am still gunning for playoffs and NOT writing them off!

[__wowza]

not a regular on here but my 2 cents on the game. in attending, what i saw live seemed different from what i have seen on tv. in the past, lots of blame has been put on the defence for being disorganized. on saturday i thought cann and the defence was pretty solid for the most part.

i gotta agree. our defense has been looking a hell of a lot more capable as of late. smarter is another word for it. you midfield point is a funny one, last year we were overflowing with midfield possibilities, this year it's our standard two with a rotating third, and god forbid, dunfield stepping in for someone.

also, id like to thank PD and everyone who gave me a shot on the capo stand, i was sick as fuck so it was an uphill battle (on top of the teams performance), PD was a big help. you never know how hard it is until you actually take try to do it youself, so kudos go out to him, FLuSH and everyone else that's been up there during a game. i broke out the lucha mask again (which i hadn't done since the 4th season) for luck and it looks like we got it, now excuse me while i gloat..

*ahem* did i not predict that we'd score in the dying embers of the game?

[ryan]

Start calling our backline the Canadian Shield if they keep their recent form going strong.

[trane]

^ Seriously? You do not find it premature? A couple of clean sheets and we are talking about the "Canadian Shield"?

I have to say that the fact that you are getting props for your posts, does say allot about the nature of the support around here. Goldfish is about right.

How about just saying good job, now lets get some wins in a row.

[__wowza]

^ Seriously? You do not find it premature? A couple of clean sheets and we are talking about the "Canadian Shield"?

I have to say that the fact that you are getting props for your posts, does say allot about the nature of the support around here. Goldfish is about right.

How about just saying good job, now lets get some wins in a row.

if you read ryans post, you'll see that he said "if they keep their recent form going" not, "hey let's pin the moniker on them right away! we won one!

in fact, if you go back and read the majority of posts around here, you'll find a more realistic take on the "nature of support" than the one you have. im not saying the statements incorrect, but, wait, yeah.. yeah i am. no one was happy with losing that many games. not one person on here. most of the stuff that can be read is said in jest, or simply because we're blowing off steam and having a chance to say it. no one can post a "are TFC the best time in canadian history?" thread if we didnt win, just like i couldnt post a "pablo vitti goal appreciation thread" after him scoring 11 games into his run here without him netting one.



it's like not shooting a load for awhile and then when you finally do, it's miraculous, even if it's shortlived.

[TOBOR !]

Wow. A number of "people" took time to respond to your message, with a couple of different opinions & nuances. Did you even read the responses? Did you read mine?

I give up, not worth it, can't make progress in a conversation if it's not a conversation.

... but this simply follows standard thread formulae :

Person A states position / opinion
Person B refutes Person A's position, and offers their own opinion.
Person A bunkers down and defends postion
Person C arrives in the form of the Cavalry to support Person B's effort
Person A attempts to better explain their thoughts
Persons B and C are now joined by Person D
Person A may feel there has been an interpretive error somewhere at this time

Person A probably didn't expect the Spanish Inquisition (but then, nobody ever does).

[Gazza]

... but this simply follows standard thread formulae :

Person A states position / opinion
Person B refutes Person A's position, and offers their own opinion.
Person A bunkers down and defends postion
Person C arrives in the form of the Cavalry to support Person B's effort
Person A attempts to better explain their thoughts
Persons B and C are now joined by Person D
Person A may feel there has been an interpretive error somewhere at this time

Person A probably didn't expect the Spanish Inquisition (but then, nobody ever does).

Give it a sec, John Cleese will be charging through your door soon.

[trane]

^ Wowza,

I do not give a shit whether you say I am wrong. The truth is the truth, and Ryan's post is to put it simply is "silly" and yet people will love it.


How about " We have won two games in a row, a couple of more and lets call Winter the next SAF"? How about that?

I read and understood what Ryan wrote and my statement stands. Talking about a Canadian shield after two clean sheets is ridiculous, as is the nature of the support for TFC.

I have given up on debate, there is nothing miraculous about winning one game out of 10, against a team that is about as shit as you are. Is it good yes, but enough already.

I will not say what I really want to say, because I am trying to be reasonable. But Ryan statement is about as silly a statement that can be made and yet it will be roundly applauded.

I say to TFC, good job, now keep it going, and maybe this season is not over, otherwise this win means shit, and these season will be like all others so far.

[Dreadlocks]

^ Wow....

Some people need to lighten up around here. It was just a simple comment made by Ryan eluding to the idea that IF the back line continues to play better, we could call them the Canadian Shield since 3 out of the 4 are Canadian!

C'mon really?:facepalm:

[trane]

^ Yes after all it is all good. We have not problems as a club.

[Auzzy]

^ Wowza,

I do not give a shit whether you say I am wrong. The truth is the truth, and Ryan's post is to put it simply is "silly" and yet people will love it.

How about " We have won two games in a row, a couple of more and lets call Winter the next SAF"? How about that?

I read and understood what Ryan wrote and my statement stands. Talking about a Canadian shield after two clean sheets is ridiculous, as is the nature of the support for TFC.

I have given up on debate, there is nothing miraculous about winning one game out of 10, against a team that is about as shit as you are. Is it good yes, but enough already.

I will not say what I really want to say, because I am trying to be reasonable. But Ryan statement is about as silly a statement that can be made and yet it will be roundly applauded.

I say to TFC, good job, now keep it going, and maybe this season is not over, otherwise this win means shit, and these season will be like all others so far.

You're not being reasonable.


Start calling our backline the Canadian Shield if they keep their recent form going strong.

Trane, you're not being reasonable either. Did you read only the first 7 words, and not read the rest of of the statement? The defense looked a bit better and has gotten two clean sheets. If (if if if IF) they continue doing well & getting clean sheets, well then "people" can call them whatever the hell they want. Since Philly is bad & Vancouver didn't play too well against us either, our defense is likely not going to continue doing that well (unless they get some better players or improve even more), and then people won't be calling them the Canadian Shield or anything more or less ridiculous than that.

What are these "people" that you speak of, as if there's one uniform opinion here? Nobody even followed up or supported or quoted Ryan's statement, other than you, so why are you saying "and yet it will be roundly applauded" & "and yet people will love it"? I read the statement, thought it was a bit over the top & silly (as it was likely meant by him), and not worth a reply either way.

I did not read anybody saying, winning one game out of 10 is "miraculous" and even if one or two individuals were to say that, are you going to equate that with all "people"?

It is a freaking relief to have finally won a game -- that's what most "people" around here are saying, no more & no less. Other than that, there's some discussion of individual players etc, some jokes in this thread & in others, maybe some individuals are a bit over the top with their excitement, so what? Call them out if you want, but stop throwing all "people" in the same pile, "as is the nature of support for TFC" etc etc. We heard plenty of individuals at the Philly game ranting about TFC's players even when they were doing well -- those are also "people," that's also part of the "nature of support" at the other extreme.

[Auzzy]

Looking at TFC's 5 league games in June: KC away; Houston away; NE at BMO; Montreal away; New York at BMO -- that's all within the last 2 weeks of June. Those are mostly very tough games. The guys are going to have to step it up & play like they did at the very best of times, but do that consistently and w/o last minute collapses like vs. RSL away. The guys have shown they can do it for short stretches which gives me some hope; it is yet to be seen if they can string together anything positive. And if Winter can manage the roster within & between games in order to support them.

I'm still hoping for 1 or 2 better players to be added -- but that may not be until the summer transfer window: too late for June, and unless the boys dig deep & June turns out good, it will be too late for the season as well.

But I still feel better now than I did 10 days ago...

[PopePouri]

^ Yes after all it is all good. We have not problems as a club.

That's not what he said. Jesus.

[ryan]

^ Seriously? You do not find it premature? A couple of clean sheets and we are talking about the "Canadian Shield"?

I have to say that the fact that you are getting props for your posts, does say allot about the nature of the support around here. Goldfish is about right.

How about just saying good job, now lets get some wins in a row.

I guess you missed where I said "if they keep their form"

Read what you want to read bro. I'll do the same, hate trane goes choo choo on yet another thread!

[ryan]

You're not being reasonable.



Trane, you're not being reasonable either. Did you read only the first 7 words, and not read the rest of of the statement? The defense looked a bit better and has gotten two clean sheets. If (if if if IF) they continue doing well & getting clean sheets, well then "people" can call them whatever the hell they want. Since Philly is bad & Vancouver didn't play too well against us either, our defense is likely not going to continue doing that well (unless they get some better players or improve even more), and then people won't be calling them the Canadian Shield or anything more or less ridiculous than that.

What are these "people" that you speak of, as if there's one uniform opinion here? Nobody even followed up or supported or quoted Ryan's statement, other than you, so why are you saying "and yet it will be roundly applauded" & "and yet people will love it"? I read the statement, thought it was a bit over the top & silly (as it was likely meant by him), and not worth a reply either way.

I did not read anybody saying, winning one game out of 10 is "miraculous" and even if one or two individuals were to say that, are you going to equate that with all "people"?

It is a freaking relief to have finally won a game -- that's what most "people" around here are saying, no more & no less. Other than that, there's some discussion of individual players etc, some jokes in this thread & in others, maybe some individuals are a bit over the top with their excitement, so what? Call them out if you want, but stop throwing all "people" in the same pile, "as is the nature of support for TFC" etc etc. We heard plenty of individuals at the Philly game ranting about TFC's players even when they were doing well -- those are also "people," that's also part of the "nature of support" at the other extreme.

That's basically what I would have said if I was here sooner. We're far too much alike I'm noticing.

I'm gonna go ahead and put a production halt on my Canadian Shield Tifo cause clearly that's not going over too well! lol!

[Auzzy]

That's basically what I would have said if I was here sooner. We're far too much alike I'm noticing.

I'm gonna go ahead and put a production halt on my Canadian Shield Tifo cause clearly that's not going over too well! lol!

Just put "Worst Team in the World" on the other side of the tifo & you're ready for anything!

[Shakes McQueen]

You're not being reasonable.



Trane, you're not being reasonable either. Did you read only the first 7 words, and not read the rest of of the statement? The defense looked a bit better and has gotten two clean sheets. If (if if if IF) they continue doing well & getting clean sheets, well then "people" can call them whatever the hell they want. Since Philly is bad & Vancouver didn't play too well against us either, our defense is likely not going to continue doing that well (unless they get some better players or improve even more), and then people won't be calling them the Canadian Shield or anything more or less ridiculous than that.

What are these "people" that you speak of, as if there's one uniform opinion here? Nobody even followed up or supported or quoted Ryan's statement, other than you, so why are you saying "and yet it will be roundly applauded" & "and yet people will love it"? I read the statement, thought it was a bit over the top & silly (as it was likely meant by him), and not worth a reply either way.

I did not read anybody saying, winning one game out of 10 is "miraculous" and even if one or two individuals were to say that, are you going to equate that with all "people"?

It is a freaking relief to have finally won a game -- that's what most "people" around here are saying, no more & no less. Other than that, there's some discussion of individual players etc, some jokes in this thread & in others, maybe some individuals are a bit over the top with their excitement, so what? Call them out if you want, but stop throwing all "people" in the same pile, "as is the nature of support for TFC" etc etc. We heard plenty of individuals at the Philly game ranting about TFC's players even when they were doing well -- those are also "people," that's also part of the "nature of support" at the other extreme.

Really well said, Auzzy. One of my major pet peeves, on here, and in life in general, is when folks throw around "people" non-specifically, in order to criticize while maintaining plausible deniability should they be called out on it (oh I wasn't referring to YOU -- just PEOPLE), or to levy broad criticisms that may not even be based in reality. We aren't the Borg, and singling out a comment or two to draw larger conclusions about "people" is not fair.

- Scott

[ryan]

^ Wowza,

I do not give a shit whether you say I am wrong. The truth is the truth, and Ryan's post is to put it simply is "silly" and yet people will love it.


How about " We have won two games in a row, a couple of more and lets call Winter the next SAF"? How about that?

I read and understood what Ryan wrote and my statement stands. Talking about a Canadian shield after two clean sheets is ridiculous, as is the nature of the support for TFC.

I have given up on debate, there is nothing miraculous about winning one game out of 10, against a team that is about as shit as you are. Is it good yes, but enough already.

I will not say what I really want to say, because I am trying to be reasonable. But Ryan statement is about as silly a statement that can be made and yet it will be roundly applauded.

I say to TFC, good job, now keep it going, and maybe this season is not over, otherwise this win means shit, and these season will be like all others so far.

Mate you're way off base here. You could call them the silly nickname based on the sole fact of their nationality and being defenders, that's it. It's just a nickname, it doesn't imply much else. Like calling a player a nickname because of physical attributes, or whatever.

Your comparison to suggesting Winter is SAF (cause you just want to bring some anti Winter into this) is not even in the same realm of what I said, because that's to imply he's equal to an excellent world class manager. Not quite the same kind of comparison, but I imagine you've already stopped reading by now.

If it makes you feel any better, I didn't get any reputation points for it.

[Fort York Redcoat]

^ Wowza,

I do not give a shit whether you say I am wrong. The truth is the truth, and Ryan's post is to put it simply is "silly" and yet people will love it.


How about " We have won two games in a row, a couple of more and lets call Winter the next SAF"? How about that?

I read and understood what Ryan wrote and my statement stands. Talking about a Canadian shield after two clean sheets is ridiculous, as is the nature of the support for TFC.

I have given up on debate, there is nothing miraculous about winning one game out of 10, against a team that is about as shit as you are. Is it good yes, but enough already.

I will not say what I really want to say, because I am trying to be reasonable. But Ryan statement is about as silly a statement that can be made and yet it will be roundly applauded.


Nope. Wait for it...


^ Yes after all it is all good. We have not problems as a club.


There it is.

Your sarcasm doesn't help your case at all. Neither does your hyperbole.

[Dreadlocks]

^ Yes after all it is all good. We have not problems as a club.

Wow! I didn't even say anythi......

Anyway, I'm looking forward to seeing how the team will respond after the break. The first game back regardless of who it's against will be HUGE.

Will they pick up any new players like a number 10 type who doesn't just drift in behind the target man and disappear? I know most will say a big CB or a proven goal scorer is what's needed, but to me, the games that have been lost were mostly lost in the midfield imho.

[bigredone]

Ryans statement seem to be based in his heart and I agree. Though my gut, and probably others on here, is telling me the winds have switched direction. Statements on here seem to reflect that. Along with the team, we all have a little more confidence and feel like spreading the feeling. It is great!

If the defence is becoming the Canadian Shield than shall we call Plata the Canadian Tire. Wears out quickly and doesn't work well in Winter.

[__wowza]

^ Wowza,
I do not give a shit whether you say I am wrong. The truth is the truth, and Ryan's post is to put it simply is "silly" and yet people will love it.

im glad that you don't care if i think your wrong, i don't imagine you waking up with a sense of accomplishment because someone agreed with you over the internet, nor do i expect you to jump on your kitchen table and start punching the ceiling because someone doesnt.. but i'd like you to observe something:


do you notice the number of people who have immediately jumped down your throat about all of this?


maybe.. just maybe.. if there's that many people telling you to lighten up, re-read his comment, take it with a grain of salt, etc. then the issue here doesn't lie with us. the worst part about this is that i think you're right here. his statement IS silly, and that's why people love it. we'd be more than happy to bestow that moniker on them, but they have to give us a reason to propose it, and then earn it, until then, it's keeping the mood light after a victory, highlighted by the word IF.

"people", never get tired of hearing that one. i have one final point to make, and if you care to read it i'd like to drop a little irony on you.. in all of the posts since ryan's, not one person has said we need to bestow this nickname on them. everyone's been clarifying his post, or telling you to lighten up..

oh, and in case you hadn't noticed, YOU were the first person to respond to the nickname.

[Furtado91]

What a twist this thread has become. __Wowza glad you got on the capo stand today (Though i have a feeling me jumping on there maybe convinced you to try ;)) ahahah im just kidding good on ya bud. we now have replacements should anyone get sick or not be able to make it to the game or need a break.


Now that we have gotten the first win under our belt. we have to keep it up

COME ON YOU REDS!!!!!!!.

[__wowza]

What a twist this thread has become. __Wowza glad you got on the capo stand today (Though i have a feeling me jumping on there maybe convinced you to try ;)) ahahah im just kidding good on ya bud. we now have replacements should anyone get sick or not be able to make it to the game or need a break.


Now that we have gotten the first win under our belt. we have to keep it up

COME ON YOU REDS!!!!!!!.

wanted to try it on for size since the season started, it helped that the capo stand was empty at the beginning of the game. sad that you missed it though. first win of the season, my first time on the stand, and the very real possibility of the first time a capo has ever thrown up during a match, needless to say i had a couple handfuls of tums and a lot of water. plus i got to throw in "4 time canadian cups!" just for kurt.

[Furtado91]

^^^ I know i was just joking about the me convincing you part ahahahhah. hopefully im free next game ahahah i hate missing games.

[Macksam]

^ Wowza,

I do not give a shit whether you say I am wrong. The truth is the truth, and Ryan's post is to put it simply is "silly" and yet people will love it.


How about " We have won two games in a row, a couple of more and lets call Winter the next SAF"? How about that?

I read and understood what Ryan wrote and my statement stands. Talking about a Canadian shield after two clean sheets is ridiculous, as is the nature of the support for TFC.

I have given up on debate, there is nothing miraculous about winning one game out of 10, against a team that is about as shit as you are. Is it good yes, but enough already.

I will not say what I really want to say, because I am trying to be reasonable. But Ryan statement is about as silly a statement that can be made and yet it will be roundly applauded.

I say to TFC, good job, now keep it going, and maybe this season is not over, otherwise this win means shit, and these season will be like all others so far.
His post was anything but silly.

[eustacchio]

wanted to try it on for size since the season started, it helped that the capo stand was empty at the beginning of the game. sad that you missed it though. first win of the season, my first time on the stand, and the very real possibility of the first time a capo has ever thrown up during a match, needless to say i had a couple handfuls of tums and a lot of water. plus i got to throw in "4 time canadian cups!" just for kurt.

well, the first to mention it as their rallying cry at the beginning of the second half:

My name is _wowza and I just threw up in the bathroom. Oh, when the reds...

[__wowza]

well, the first to mention it as their rallying cry at the beginning of the second half:

My name is _wowza and I just threw up in the bathroom. Oh, when the reds...

hey, if i could sing after that, the rest had no excuse not to!!
sidenote.. you ever wanna see a bathroom line part like the red sea, you announce that youre going to throw up. you'll see people change their tune in a heartbeat.

guy in line: hey.. HEY.. (grabs my collar) line starts back there!!
me: im gonna puke, and im not doing it in the concourse..
guy in line: faaaaaair nuuuuff.. (moves to the side)

[mcolvy]

I honestly love Johnson and him upfront is a better option then Koevs, who really only excels within the 18 yard box. Its nice to have someone who can get the ball into the net in low % chances, but Johnson does a better job getting involved and holding the ball up. I also love Henry and his game right now. He is real strong and looks great at CB. Eckersley is good, but not the best defender in the MLS. Mariner should be sacked for the terrible deal. I mean if we bring in a solid CB, and then have the experienced Cann switching in with Henry, (Both lefties, and both need rest. Cann because he is older and just still getting his knee back to full strength and Henry because he is young and can't be relied on 100%). Thats not half bad.

Deploy Frings in a box to box role and we bring in a motor of a DM and a creative AM and were in business....

Easier said then done.

[Yohan]

urm. Cann and Henry are right footed

[Code Red]

well, the first to mention it as their rallying cry at the beginning of the second half:

My name is _wowza and I just threw up in the bathroom. Oh, when the reds...

lol That was classic! I was dying of laughter when I heard that, although now that I think about it, I probably should have been more sympathetic.

[Jack]

I honestly love Johnson and him upfront is a better option then Koevs, who really only excels within the 18 yard box. Its nice to have someone who can get the ball into the net in low % chances, but Johnson does a better job getting involved and holding the ball up. I also love Henry and his game right now. He is real strong and looks great at CB. Eckersley is good, but not the best defender in the MLS. Mariner should be sacked for the terrible deal. I mean if we bring in a solid CB, and then have the experienced Cann switching in with Henry, (Both lefties, and both need rest. Cann because he is older and just still getting his knee back to full strength and Henry because he is young and can't be relied on 100%). Thats not half bad.

Deploy Frings in a box to box role and we bring in a motor of a DM and a creative AM and were in business....

Easier said then done.

How many goals does Koevermans have in his TFC career? How many does Johnson have? We need a guy who can bang 'em in. Johnson and Koevs should coexist happily, pushing Plata to the bench.

[ag futbol]

^ You're right, if they're both playing well they should be able to co-exist.

Johnson, for all his work ethic, is really not that effective as a central striker. He's better off out wide in a 4-3-3

[Yohan]

^ You're right, if they're both playing well they should be able to co-exist.

Johnson, for all his work ethic, is really not that effective as a central striker. He's better off out wide in a 4-3-3
what I like, and dislike about Johnson is his tendencies to drift wide to left. now this can cause gaps to appear in centre defence for plata to cut in, or avila/silva to exploit the space, but TFC really haven't been able to take advantage of Johnson properly IMO

[Huyton]

How many goals does Koevermans have in his TFC career? How many does Johnson have? We need a guy who can bang 'em in. Johnson and Koevs should coexist happily, pushing Plata to the bench.

Danny the K has 3 goals in 432 minutes of play for a 0.625 goals per game this year in MLS...that's 5 goals every 8 games. This year in MLS play, he has done that rarest of things for a Toronto team: He scored the winning goal in a match.

[Richard]

Koevermans is our #1 striker, he would be leading the league in goals if his fitness was a bit better at the start of the year. Johnson should play wide and actually looks like he can cross a ball as he did for Soolsma perfectly(forget which game).

[ryan]

Koevermans is our #1 striker, he would be leading the league in goals if his fitness was a bit better at the start of the year. Johnson should play wide and actually looks like he can cross a ball as he did for Soolsma perfectly(forget which game).

He did also feed Lambe the winner vs Vancouver.

[trane]

Really well said, Auzzy. One of my major pet peeves, on here, and in life in general, is when folks throw around "people" non-specifically, in order to criticize while maintaining plausible deniability should they be called out on it (oh I wasn't referring to YOU -- just PEOPLE), or to levy broad criticisms that may not even be based in reality. We aren't the Borg, and singling out a comment or two to draw larger conclusions about "people" is not fair.

- Scott

You have read my shit long enough to know that I do not give a shit about being critisized, and this place is just about 80 % kool aid drinking borg. The posts after support this, I new exactly how people would react and answer.

Ryan, again I read your post, and I understood that your said if they keep their form, but it all still stands, it is all premature, they had two cleans sheets and two reasonable performances, there is hardly any form to speak off to keep up.

I do not like reading it because once again the supporters are going to let an under performing club of the hook after being thrown a few crumbs. Again I used to think we deserved better (or butter) but I have come to understand that we are getting the club we deserve. As supporters we lose focus on the goal vis a vis the present reality, which still remains bleak in terms of the MLS.

[ManUtd4ever]

How many goals does Koevermans have in his TFC career? How many does Johnson have? We need a guy who can bang 'em in. Johnson and Koevs should coexist happily, pushing Plata to the bench.

Agreed.

Koevermans has also demonstrated the rare ability (by TFC standards) to score clutch goals late in matches, albiet only one of them led to victory. I can recall him scoring late goals against Portland, New England, Montreal, and recently against Philadelphia.

[__wowza]

You have read my shit long enough to know that I do not give a shit about being critisized, and this place is just about 80 % kool aid drinking borg. The posts after support this, I new exactly how people would react and answer. Ryan, again I read your post, and I understood that your said if they keep their form, but it all still stands, it is all premature, they had two cleans sheets and two reasonable performances, there is hardly any form to speak off to keep up.

and this is the part that gets me.. instead of taking constructive criticism and really taking a look at why so many people have the opposite understanding, you brush it off entirely. then you come back with one of the lamest generalizations i've ever heard on the boards where anyone that disagrees is now part of a hive-mid of "RA RA RA!" support. everyone one of the posts after yours is about the fact that you've blown it outt've proportion and you're saying "no i'm not, and if i am i don't care because it's how i understood it". you and my ex would get along great.

again, if so many people disagree, maybe it's not us. maybe it's you.
maybe we're not kool-aid drinking borg, and you're using that as a "im not crazy, it's everyone else whose crazy" defense. maybe you just don't know what you're talking about and some of the borg are making a fruitless attempt to try and talk some sense into you anyway.


Again I used to think we deserved better (or butter) but I have come to understand that we are getting the club we deserve.

ladies and gentlemen, the rally cry for everyone who is disillusioned by the club and it's supporters. one of the most open-ended and ridiculous statements in history.. :facepalm:


welcome to the other side of your 80%, i'm sure there's plenty of kool-aid in the back of the bandwagon. quote the mantra, etc, etc, welcome to the collective.

[TOBOR !]

lulZ - 'Canadian Shield comment Argy-Bargy'

[Auzzy]

You have read my shit long enough to know that I do not give a shit about being critisized, and this place is just about 80 % kool aid drinking borg. The posts after support this, I new exactly how people would react and answer.

Ryan, again I read your post, and I understood that your said if they keep their form, but it all still stands, it is all premature, they had two cleans sheets and two reasonable performances, there is hardly any form to speak off to keep up.

I do not like reading it because once again the supporters are going to let an under performing club of the hook after being thrown a few crumbs. Again I used to think we deserved better (or butter) but I have come to understand that we are getting the club we deserve. As supporters we lose focus on the goal vis a vis the present reality, which still remains bleak in terms of the MLS.

You. Do. Not. Get. It.

[Lumpy]

You have read my shit long enough to know that I do not give a shit about being critisized, and this place is just about 80 % kool aid drinking borg. The posts after support this, I new exactly how people would react and answer.

Ryan, again I read your post, and I understood that your said if they keep their form, but it all still stands, it is all premature, they had two cleans sheets and two reasonable performances, there is hardly any form to speak off to keep up.

I do not like reading it because once again the supporters are going to let an under performing club of the hook after being thrown a few crumbs. Again I used to think we deserved better (or butter) but I have come to understand that we are getting the club we deserve. As supporters we lose focus on the goal vis a vis the present reality, which still remains bleak in terms of the MLS.

Do you really believe whining will force TFC to suddenly get a good team ???? What's wrong with fans supporting their team despite losing?? Part of the magic of the Red Patch Boys was that a group of crazies supported a shitty team. Look at Portland, thats what fans and the magic is about. Don't drag everyone down into a cesspool of despair. It's ugly. Toronto finished the month of May with 3 wins 2 draws and 2 losses. Now that is some good news.

[trane]

and this is the part that gets me.. instead of taking constructive criticism and really taking a look at why so many people have the opposite understanding, you brush it off entirely. then you come back with one of the lamest generalizations i've ever heard on the boards where anyone that disagrees is now part of a hive-mid of "RA RA RA!" support. everyone one of the posts after yours is about the fact that you've blown it outt've proportion and you're saying "no i'm not, and if i am i don't care because it's how i understood it". you and my ex would get along great.

again, if so many people disagree, maybe it's not us. maybe it's you.
maybe we're not kool-aid drinking borg, and you're using that as a "im not crazy, it's everyone else whose crazy" defense. maybe you just don't know what you're talking about and some of the borg are making a fruitless attempt to try and talk some sense into you anyway.



ladies and gentlemen, the rally cry for everyone who is disillusioned by the club and it's supporters. one of the most open-ended and ridiculous statements in history.. :facepalm:


welcome to the other side of your 80%, i'm sure there's plenty of kool-aid in the back of the bandwagon. quote the mantra, etc, etc, welcome to the collective.


Oh, believe me I get it, and I know what I am talking about. What is ridicolous is this club and its supporters. I am just tiered of trying to be nice and reasonable, when this club is ridicolous.


Yes, Lumpy, you know what is better news, if you only count the last 2 games we have won all our games. Yeahhhaa. What is wrong with "supporting" the team despite lossing??? It breads more lossing. If you as supporters have not learned this, in the past six year you never will.


I am not a glass half empty kind of person, but this shit after 6 years of being told, who shit smell like roses, I am fucking tiered. This is shit, and it smells like shit, and we are about the silliest supporters in the fucking world, being raped year after year, and blaming ourselves for it. Fuck it.

[ryan]

I wonder if he's just trolling at this point?

You can't be serious mate. If not, this is becoming a rather humorous display of utter thickheaded foolishness.

All this utter nonsense over a freakin' nickname suggested in jest, to be given with future success of course..., albeit apparently not welcome to suggest for the future. Apparently nicknames can't be awarded unless you're playing like Gods season after season? What are the requirements to earn a nickname then?

Anywho, you have some absolute pent up rage and some real issues with it if you're really not just having a laugh with us. Your rant threads and "I'm so depressed" and "throw my jersey on the pitch" raging comments are really something...

Basically, you're bloody mental and completely unaware to it.

[trane]

^ The foolishness is not mine. I am not trolling. I made a comment, and there were numerous angry reply's, I knew there would be. I have been supporting this club from day one, and for some time I have started to believe that the "supporters" culture around here supports the lossing culture of this club. I am angry, but not ragging, and yes I do want to kill this mentality, which I think is wrongheaded, and is reading this club to new levels of incompetance year after year, before a full decade has passed and we are still the laughing stock of the league.

I know that in this culture you have a hard time rocking the boat, but sometimes rocking the boat is needed. Hence throwing the jersey on the pitch suggestion.


[ On a side note, I see my reputation points going down and down. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. ]

[__wowza]

I know that in this culture you have a hard time rocking the boat, but sometimes rocking the boat is needed. Hence throwing the jersey on the pitch suggestion.

you threw your jersey on the pitch?

[ryan]

Who supports losing?

Those that say "I think Winter can do it" or those that say "off with his head" ? I don't think either support losing but that's basically what this board has been for the past 2 months. You have some whacked out illusion of what this board is, really.


Yeah and your comment was to slight me for making a not all that serious suggestion on what to call our backline if they continue to perform well. So basically, the culture you want to promote is shitting on other members for making these kind of comments? I'd love to continue coming here under that circumstance! That's exactly what we need, more member vs member bickering!

You just continue to use ANYTHING to promote your rage agenda. Keep on chugging along trane!

[trane]

Wowza,

No. I suggested that at some point, WE, I think I was still officialy an RPB, do it as a group. There was some support but not enough.

And yes, I would if this continous. But doing it by myself is hardly meanigfull.

[trane]

Who supports losing?

Those that say "I think Winter can do it" or those that say "off with his head" ? I don't think either support losing but that's basically what this board has been for the past 2 months. You have some whacked out illusion of what this board is, really.


Yeah and your comment was to slight me for making a not all that serious suggestion on what to call our backline if they continue to perform well. So basically, the culture you want to promote is shitting on other members for making these kind of comments? I'd love to continue coming here under that circumstance! That's exactly what we need, more member vs member bickering!

You just continue to use ANYTHING to promote your rage agenda. Keep on chugging along trane!

I do not have a rage agenda kid. I do not mean to make anyone unwelcome. This is the place I come to talk football. PERIOD. When man talk football it can get passionate. But do not take it personal. I do not. [As I said you are Mr. Popular I am lossing reputarion points by the minute-who cares?] My club is shit. That is what I give a shit about.

I would like the supporters to put pressure on this club, to turn all of it around NOW.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Wowza,

No. I suggested that at some point, WE, I think I was still officialy an RPB, do it as a group. There was some support but not enough.

And yes, I would if this continous. But doing it by myself is hardly meanigfull.


http://redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?31587-NEXT-HOME-GAME-If-we-do-not-win-I-am-going-to-throw-a-TFC-jersey-back-onto-the-pitch&highlight=throw+jersey

This looks more like an announcement more than a suggestion to me and your membership renewal had lapsed. Just so you know.

But yes, there was little support for it. I'd say throwing your jersey on your own would have stood out more to others of the same mind but whatever..

[ryan]

What pressure do you want us to put?

Ask them to do things with the roster they simply cannot do? Fire the coach? Demand they stay the course? Who's to say what is the right answer?

Or just throw away our jerseys and give MLSE more money for new ones when the wins start coming? lolz. I'm sure they'll look at building a club that goes up and down then to boost kit sales then, it is MLSE.
Or should we walk out or not show up, for the tickets we've already paid for, that'll show them! We give you money, you give us nothing! MLSE will get the message with free money tactics like that!

[Richard]

LOL. I dont know how somone can get so offended from such a nickname.

I smiled when i read it because i thought it was a good. I never once thought poster meant it seriously, i saw it as a posting of what they thought atm and what could become if the play continued. I dont get how you think fans are delusional and drinking kool aid from a non serious post that was meant half heartedly or as a joke.

[trane]

http://redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?31587-NEXT-HOME-GAME-If-we-do-not-win-I-am-going-to-throw-a-TFC-jersey-back-onto-the-pitch&highlight=throw+jersey

This looks more like an announcement more than a suggestion to me and your membership renewal had lapsed. Just so you know.

But yes, there was little support for it. I'd say throwing your jersey on your own would have stood out more to others of the same mind but whatever..


That is how it started;
"I think that if we do not win the next home game I am not asking for them to take of their jersey, I am throwing it back at them."
,
Followed by a discussion. After which I thought what is the bloody point, when the group is led by people like you an Oldtimer???? And people like Yeoman, Roogsy, London, ect. ect. ect. have left. Believe you me, if the group was throwing its jersey on the pitch in a sign of defiance and lack of acceptance for this shit, it would not have the problems it has today.

Give me another infraction for this, I am waiting for it. Again I am not angry, I am just speaking the truth. This group has been the pawn of the MLSE willingly or not. In a group with little discipline or leadership the only people who get punished are the ones that speak up against the status qua that has lead us here.

Again, Ryan, you are being silly, the argument is silly, and yet, I am the crazy one.

[ryan]

So to win football matches you throw your kit on the pitch and you don't have an agenda despite turning "me giving our backline a nickname" into yet another "we're shit and we need to protest my way or else you're a kool aid drinker" rant thread.

Oh and you're not crazy, we all are.

That about sum it up? :)

[Beach_Red]

That is how it started;
"I think that if we do not win the next home game I am not asking for them to take of their jersey, I am throwing it back at them."
,
Followed by a discussion. After which I thought what is the bloody point, when the group is led by people like you an Oldtimer???? And people like Yeoman, Roogsy, London, ect. ect. ect. have left. Believe you me, if the group was throwing its jersey on the pitch in a sign of defiance and lack of acceptance for this shit, it would not have the problems it has today.

Give me another infraction for this, I am waiting for it. Again I am not angry, I am just speaking the truth. This group has been the pawn of the MLSE willingly or not. In a group with little discipline or leadership the only people who get punished are the ones that speak up against the status qua that has lead us here.

Again, Ryan, you are being silly, the argument is silly, and yet, I am the crazy one.

It has always been a little strange how we pick favourites and goats. It took almost six years for people to start looking at the top of the organization as the problem.

Even now in another thread we're asking so little of the Klinsmann consultancy and accepting that senior management didn't implement his plan properly - which we could say of everyone who's tried to run this team from the day it started. And yet, still, after every loss we pick a player or two and a coach and blame them for everything.

Maybe that's changed now.

[trane]

^ I wish you were right, but the leadership is the "status qua" leadership so nothing will change. More members will leave, or be pushed out, or simply marginalized, but the leadership will take on nothing.

I cannot blame them in some way, they truly believe that not-quite blind but almost support is the way to go. As I said before it is almost like we speak different languages. [ My spelling and syntax also seems a different language, I give you that]

[trane]

So to win football matches you throw your kit on the pitch and you don't have an agenda despite turning "me giving our backline a nickname" into yet another "we're shit and we need to protest my way or else you're a kool aid drinker" rant thread.

Oh and you're not crazy, we all are.

That about sum it up? :)

You are right. Keep on doing what you are doing. It has worked wonders.

[trane]

^Honestly, I do not want to keep on going on about this. It was not my intention to get into it, but I cannot help but respond.

[ryan]

You are right. Keep on doing what you are doing. It has worked wonders.

Please throw your kit on the pitch and make it rain wins then. What are you waiting for?

[trane]

^ It is called a sign of protest/frustration saying enough of this, you are not worthy to carry the name of our city.


I know why would you do that at our Fortress in which our Canadian Shield plays, coached by our soon to be SAF?


Listen, kid, I am rely not interested in going on all day.


On the positive side, Ryan I see a future as the RPB president for you.

[__wowza]

You are right. Keep on doing what you are doing. It has worked wonders.

mighty big call out.. if i remember correctly. i read you making the declaration that you were throwing you shirt onto the pitch, only to re-neg on it, only to have OTHERS do it. keep doing what you're doing, absolutely nothing. i told you. i told roogs. i told everyone whose disillusioned with the club.. if you're going to protest, start a protest. if the RPB doesn't support it, then fuck it, do it anyway.


until then.. keep claiming martyrdom for calling out the exec and then saying you don't care about getting an infraction. if you really didn't care, you wouldn't mention it, and if you actually did care, you'd bring it up to the exec instead of airing out your shit on a public forum.

[ryan]

I'm not the one disrespecting the badge, but I'm not worthy eh? Outstanding response.

You still can't wrap your head around a meaningless nickname to comparing to an actual physical person. Dear lord this has to be trolling, it's too bloody dumb not to be.

Oh and if I'm a kid you have to be one old dude, which would explain your bitterness.



You can take your hate trane wherever you want, it's obvious your intent here. you're looking for attention and loving it.

[Thomas]

We are off topic a fair bit. This sounds like some kind of a crazed soap opera. This is a supporters club, right?

[Huyton]

Oh and if I'm a kid you have to be one old dude, which would explain your bitterness.

Now that's not fair...some of us old dudes are really nice guys.

Just because we'd rather rest on our seats at half time than stand in line for a beer, or hate the noise by the food building steps after a game.


It's easy to support a team when it's winning. Supporting it when it's not takes dedication. That's why the chant "You only sing when you're winning" is such an insult.

[__wowza]

Oh and if I'm a kid you have to be one old dude, which would explain your bitterness.


Now that's not fair...some of us old dudes are really nice guys.

Just because we'd rather rest on our seats at half time than stand in line for a beer, or hate the noise by the food building steps after a game.

agreed with huyton.

[TOBOR !]

RAT-A-TAT-TAT... Trane's down... MEDIC !

[Oldtimer]

RAT-A-TAT-TAT... Trane's down... MEDIC !

For the record, I was not involved in the trane ban discussion amongst the mods. Not that I disagree that he was asking for it by trolling.

Also for the record, contrary to what trane posted, although I'm a mod, I don't lead the group in any way. I'm no different than the member who grills hot dogs for the tailgate, or paints a banner. We all serve in our own way.

[TOBOR !]

^ I just think if he doesn't get ganged up on he doesn't get his back up... cooler heads prevail, and all that.

Perhaps he brought it on himself, but sometimes you have to walk away (on both sides), else this type of thing happens.

So, great, now everyone can get back to agreeing with each other - another victory for Utopia.

[bigredone]

Can the monkey be lifted off some of our backs?

[ryan]

Now that's not fair...some of us old dudes are really nice guys.

Just because we'd rather rest on our seats at half time than stand in line for a beer, or hate the noise by the food building steps after a game.

hahaha I know.

I did mention it to you once before that we basically sat/stood/sung beside each other all 2011....and you're in my hometown to boot!


It's easy to support a team when it's winning. Supporting it when it's not takes dedication. That's why the chant "You only sing when you're winning" is such an insult.

Essentially he's promoting bandwagoning then i guess? :)

Reminds me of that video Roogsy posted a short while ago of the old fella breaking into tears over (i think) CL qualification. You don't get to that moment without being there. It's all about the journey.

"THROUGH ALL OF THE HIGHS AND LOWS!!"

[Fort York Redcoat]

^ I just think if he doesn't get ganged up on he doesn't get his back up... cooler heads prevail, and all that.

Perhaps he brought it on himself, but sometimes you have to walk away (on both sides), else this type of thing happens.

So, great, now everyone can get back to agreeing with each other - another victory for Utopia.

The issue is not whether we agree. It is the tone in which we disagree with one another. If we are civil and respectful no one feels as if they are ganged upon or needs to walk away.

See, I'm disagreeing with you. Feel free to do the same.



Now we race to see who's right.g:D (inside joke. (Inside the Running thread FYI))

[Roogsy]

Now that Trane is banned, you don't think it's a little more mature if you guys stop dissecting his points? After all, he can't respond.

[Yohan]

just close this thread already

[Oldtimer]

It can stay open if everyone gets back to topic, which was TFC1, Philly 0, in case anyone lost track.

[TOBOR !]

The issue is not whether we agree. It is the tone in which we disagree with one another. If we are civil and respectful no one feels as if they are ganged upon or needs to walk away.


Fair enough, but I think if two or three people take up a position against you and (as Roogs says) continue to dissect your posts, you're bound to get agitated and your tone is going to change.

Perhaps he was uncivil, but I think he was drawn out.

[Shakes McQueen]

Fair enough, but I think if two or three people take up a position against you and (as Roogs says) continue to dissect your posts, you're bound to get agitated and your tone is going to change.

Perhaps he was uncivil, but I think he was drawn out.

He was the one who initially came in wielding the flaming internet sword of vengeance, directed at Ryan's post. Having multiple people point out to you how over the top and ridiculous that was, doesn't give you free license to ratchet up the hostility. And he knew full well what he was doing when he started taking direct public shots at the RPB exec, too.

Civility doesn't mean anything if you ditch it as soon as it gets "hard". I'm getting tired of "truth tellers" with persecution complexes.

Back to topic.

- Scott

[TFCknw]

^ It is called a sign of protest/frustration saying enough of this, you are not worthy to carry the name of our city.


I know why would you do that at our Fortress in which our Canadian Shield plays, coached by our soon to be SAF?


Listen, kid, I am rely not interested in going on all day.


On the positive side, Ryan I see a future as the RPB president for you.



OMG, that is sooo funny Trane.

[Pookie]

1-0 was the score and Danny Koevermans got one.

Incidentally, De Rosario is considered our best goal scorer ever. He scored a goal for every 179 minutes played.

Danny Koevermans scores a goal every 106 minutes played.

I'll bet Dichio would have scored every minute he played..... if he wanted to.

[Shakes McQueen]

I think Koevermans might be my favourite ever TFC player, or in the top three, because he has that same fiery demeanor that Dichio had on the pitch. He's basically a Dutch Danny Dichio. It's a shame that he has to be here during such a tumultuous time for the team.

3D.

- Scott

[Pookie]

3D

I like that

Better than Rohan Ricketts + Danny Dichio (R2D2)

[Oldtimer]

Incidentally, De Rosario is considered our best goal scorer ever. He scored a goal for every 179 minutes played.

Danny Koevermans scores a goal every 106 minutes played.



That's an amazing stat... the one thing is that the stats don't lie.

[Pookie]

^ I found it really interesting If you just look at this year's runaway Golden Boot favourite Chris Wondolowski, he has 11 goals in 12 Appearances. He is scoring at a rate of 1 every 98 minutes played.

Goes to show that Danny K is in great company but also goes to show that if he was able to play a full 90, we might be in a much different spot.

[Auzzy]

I wonder, if DK had been on the field early in the Philly game, when TFC was building up & pressing so nicely, getting chances in waves, but not finishing...

[Canary10]

I wonder, if DK had been on the field early in the Philly game, when TFC was building up & pressing so nicely, getting chances in waves, but not finishing...

I think he would have netted a few more times if he had played the whole game. Philly's defence were atrocious, especially in the first half.

[ryan]

Yep. Danny wouldn't waste those chances I don't think. He's done it too many times at a higher level to let so many get by. Can't wait for him to play more minutes and I agree with Scott in terms of becoming a favourite player of mine.

Depending on how he holds up, wouldn't mind seeing him stay another year beyond his deal....or playing for us as long as he's scoring like he is. Finish as a red DK!

[habstfc]

I had no doubts TFC would win against Philly as it was the only game I've missed so far.

[Fort York Redcoat]

^ I found it really interesting If you just look at this year's runaway Golden Boot favourite Chris Wondolowski, he has 11 goals in 12 Appearances. He is scoring at a rate of 1 every 98 minutes played.

Goes to show that Danny K is in great company but also goes to show that if he was able to play a full 90, we might be in a much different spot.

Ugh. And we get to see Wondo on Sun vs Canada. Not to mention Donovon, Beckerman et al the haters I love to hate.

[TOBOR !]

There are players suited for leagues and I think Wondolowski is suited for MLS. Transplant him onto another team in another country and his production drops.