MLS credibility - It doesnt deserve any.

[ExiledRed]

The questionable calls against this club are becoming farcical.

Maurice Edu getting a game suspending yellow, for being pulled down in the box by a goalkeeper? Ibrahim goes over two extended legs and gets the same?

What do MLS refereees think when they see the replays?......whoops? oh well too bad? not my fault?

what?

They should be thinking "Shit, they'll never let me referee again" or at least "Cant slip up like that again or Im gone"

But really, given the pattern of miscalls and non calls against us, that are being proven so by video technology only seconds after the incident on live television, when can we start seeing apologies issued to our team, suspensions overruled and refs held accountable?

[Eastend]

I agree that we've had bad calls called against us but to be honest we're not the only ones. The officiating in this league is a BIG JOKE. The number of bad calls all around is way too high. The RSL coach has now been suspended and fined twice this year for his comments about the refs.

If obviously hurts more when the calls are against us but it's a league wide problem.

[Eastend]

Oh, and I think that Ibrahim was a dive. My opinion only of course.

[ExiledRed]

I agree that we've had bad calls called against us but to be honest we're not the only ones. The officiating in this league is a BIG JOKE. The number of bad calls all around is way too high. The RSL coach has now been suspended and fined twice this year for his comments about the refs.

If obviously hurts more when the calls are against us but it's a league wide problem.

That's why I'm referring to MLS credibility league wide.

Accountability for the refs please, not the coaches and players who are rightly complaining about them.

[ExiledRed]

Oh, and I think that Ibrahim was a dive. My opinion only of course.

It looks to me like both his shins catch the other player's leg at speed, after the player has gotten the ball.

Now I may not understand the term 'diving' after all so let me get clarification on this.

If a tackle that is good, causes the tackled player to lose his footing through speed and momentum or obstruction after the ball has been won, is that a dive? can you dive unintentionally? What was the kid supposed to do float over the top of the guys legs?

It wasnt a foul on Ibrahim, but that doesnt make it a dive.

[trane]

Agree I love TFC, but the MLS needs to step up, the refs are a major concern.

[Blazer]

The questionable calls against this club are becoming farcical.

Maurice Edu getting a game suspending yellow, for being pulled down in the box by a goalkeeper? Ibrahim goes over two extended legs and gets the same?

What do MLS refereees think when they see the replays?......whoops? oh well too bad? not my fault?

what?

They should be thinking "Shit, they'll never let me referee again" or at least "Cant slip up like that again or Im gone"

But really, given the pattern of miscalls and non calls against us, that are being proven so by video technology only seconds after the incident on live television, when can we start seeing apologies issued to our team, suspensions overruled and refs held accountable?


1. Are these refs being paid by FIFA or by MLS?
2. Is there a correlation between quality of officiating and quality of the league? (I.e. presumably the best officials exist in the best footy leagues)

[Bobo]

Oh, and I think that Ibrahim was a dive. My opinion only of course.

Wasn't it outside the box? That's pretty weak, is the ref going to give 20 yellows a game? Shocking to see, especially in a game featuring Quasimodo Blanco.

[Kooper]

They should be thinking "Shit, they'll never let me referee again" or at least "Cant slip up like that again or Im gone"


They are thinking "Sweet if the fired me and all the other bad refs every time we make a mistake there will be none of us left. They have to keep me around."

I like the idea of having a system of accountability but they can't fire bad refs or we would be without any or we would be stuck with their lesser replacements. As sad as it is these guys are probably the best in the US and Canada. What they should be doing is improve the training and qualifications of the refs though clinics and travel to see the best guys work. If they could get Pier Luigi Collina over to teach a class or two then maybe we could get some results.

[rocker]

i don't mind more diving calls, but there is a middle ground between "foul by the player doing the tackle" and "diving". A guy can get knocked down or fall down and it doesn't have to be one or the other.

[ExiledRed]

They are thinking "Sweet if the fired me and all the other bad refs every time we make a mistake there will be none of us left. They have to keep me around."

I like the idea of having a system of accountability but they can't fire bad refs or we would be without any or we would be stuck with their lesser replacements. As sad as it is these guys are probably the best in the US and Canada. What they should be doing is improve the training and qualifications of the refs though clinics and travel to see the best guys work. If they could get Pier Luigi Collina over to teach a class or two then maybe we could get some results.

So what you're saying is, that because the refs over here are rubbish, they shouldnt be held accountable for their mistakes?

Maybe they would get better, or more careful, or pay more attention if they thought repeated poor calls had consequences against them.

If theyre not up to standard, why have them at all? Seriously, let the commentators arbitrate the game, they get a better view and they know more about the rules than the standard MLS ref anyway.

[CretanBull]

The Ibrahim call was questionable...On one hand, it did look like he went down a little easy. On the other, he was clearly hit. We should also keep in mind that it was a grown man hitting a 16 year old kid - so what looked like a dive could have been caused by the force and weight of an adult taking out a somewhat gangly teenager. Ibrahim *may* have also been thinking that Edu was robbed in the box and if he went down the ref (if he'd realized his mistake) might be looking for an opportunity for a "make up" call.

[Dunc]

The Ibrahim call was questionable...On one hand, it did look like he went down a little easy. On the other, he was clearly hit. We should also keep in mind that it was a grown man hitting a 16 year old kid - so what looked like a dive could have been caused by the force and weight of an adult taking out a somewhat gangly teenager. Ibrahim *may* have also been thinking that Edu was robbed in the box and if he went down the ref (if he'd realized his mistake) might be looking for an opportunity for a "make up" call.

His youth and size are what's making me reconsider it. First I thought it was a dive. I also thought an earlier foul committed against Ibrahim was a dive too. But now I'm sure there was contact and Abbe just doesn't have the strength of older players. And then there's the point ER brought up too that it was a good tackle so just because it wasn't a foul doesn't mean it was a dive that he went down.

In any case a booking was fucking dumb. Even if it was a dive, it's marginal. In this league it's ridiculous what known divers like Schelotto and Blanco get away with, or even if they don't draw the foul they just get told to get up and aren't booked for simulation. Referees never err on the side of booking for diving, why did he do it to us twice in one match.

I stopped trying to defend the MLS when it got bashed in discussions with fans of European football or people who are ignorant of football entirely long ago. Now I just educate them about the specific reasons why it's shit.

Fuck the MLS, come on you irons (just for a day though, then go back to being scum)

[CretanBull]

I'm (for one day) blowing bubbles...

[Roogsy]

It looks to me like both his shins catch the other player's leg at speed, after the player has gotten the ball.

Now I may not understand the term 'diving' after all so let me get clarification on this.

If a tackle that is good, causes the tackled player to lose his footing through speed and momentum or obstruction after the ball has been won, is that a dive? can you dive unintentionally? What was the kid supposed to do float over the top of the guys legs?

It wasnt a foul on Ibrahim, but that doesnt make it a dive.

Best explanation I have heard of the Ibrahim fall. Not a dive, not a yellow, end of.

[Roogsy]

In any case a booking was fucking dumb. Even if it was a dive, it's marginal. In this league it's ridiculous what known divers like Schelotto and Blanco get away with, or even if they don't draw the foul they just get told to get up and aren't booked for simulation. Referees never err on the side of booking for diving, why did he do it to us twice in one match.


Exactly! We get two DUBIOUS calls against us...and nothing gets called against the infamous game against the Crew or last night against Quasimodo.

[Azerban]

If the ref believed that Ibrahim embellished the fall, to make it look worse than it was, then that's also a dive.

[Roogsy]

That I can understand...but then no card for Blanco?

That's the issue. Consistency.

[Sonny Cheeba]

1. Are these refs being paid by FIFA or by MLS?
2. Is there a correlation between quality of officiating and quality of the league? (I.e. presumably the best officials exist in the best footy leagues)

re: 2.

i believe there is definitely a correlation. but what it comes down to is money. for example, Refs in the SPL are basically part-time employees, they are paid like part-timers and probably don't care so much about their performance as part timer's might. that is to say, if they're not looking for another job in a better league. but i'm guessing for the most part, they don't really care. the result in scotland has been shitty officiating. and i feel somewhat the same about the MLS. but not for the part time employment reason, i don't know how it works for MLS officials. however, the money part does make sense. right now the league seems to be putting more money into appealing to a wider audience rather than satisfying its existing fans and teams alike by having a system of accountability for officials. this would definitely cost money to run: hiring and firing people costs money. but suspending coaches makes money, so maybe they can suspend a few more people and put the money into a system to keep the officials on their toes.

MLS is the next league to have a drunk official on youtube.

[ilikemusic]

Im sorry but anybody who expected credibility from MLS didnt really know what they were getting themselves into when they started supporting this team.

MLS is not, and never has been a credible football league. Take the team for what its worth but do not, I repeat do not, take it seriously. I can assure the guys running this league arent.

[giambac]

The questionable calls against this club are becoming farcical.

Maurice Edu getting a game suspending yellow, for being pulled down in the box by a goalkeeper? Ibrahim goes over two extended legs and gets the same?

What do MLS refereees think when they see the replays?......whoops? oh well too bad? not my fault?

what?

They should be thinking "Shit, they'll never let me referee again" or at least "Cant slip up like that again or Im gone"

But really, given the pattern of miscalls and non calls against us, that are being proven so by video technology only seconds after the incident on live television, when can we start seeing apologies issued to our team, suspensions overruled and refs held accountable?

I blame Coach carver for all the questionable bad calls. He must have pissed off all the refs in the league with his constant bickering.:taz:

[Kooper]

So what you're saying is, that because the refs over here are rubbish, they shouldnt be held accountable for their mistakes?

Maybe they would get better, or more careful, or pay more attention if they thought repeated poor calls had consequences against them.

If theyre not up to standard, why have them at all? Seriously, let the commentators arbitrate the game, they get a better view and they know more about the rules than the standard MLS ref anyway.

No I am just suggesting that there needs to be other ways to reprimand the refs, financial, sent down to the USL for a few games?

Having the commentators arbitrate is dubious because you always have the homers calling the games. Gary and Craig are pretty good and seem to offer a fair review of the game but there are times that they root for TFC more than they should if they are to be seen as unbiased.

[jloome]

We should all be aghast at the level of officiating in North America in general, not just MLS. This is now four games in a row -- four in a row -- where replays showed we had a clear penalty and it wasn't called. Even if you assume we only got draws out of three of those games, that's a lot when you consider how close this league is.

Bizarre.

[mclaren]

I HATE diving with a passion but Ibrahim definetely DID NOT dive - he was simply running fast and fell over with momentum. I hope the ref gets to see a video of Ronaldo to see what a real dive is.

[Northern Soul]

I blame Coach carver for all the questionable bad calls. He must have pissed off all the refs in the league with his constant bickering.:taz:

Of course you do.

[ExiledRed]

I blame Coach carver for all the questionable bad calls. He must have pissed off all the refs in the league with his constant bickering.:taz:

Carver knows that these refs are useless, and he's being punished for saying so. The same is happening to Jason Kreis on a worse scale.

Because this league is a single entity, they can come down on coaches for criticising it's inner workings. This doesnt happen in other leagues, where the club managers are free to criticise and expose major concerns, and farcical officiating is met with suspensions of refs, because so much is at stake for the clubs involved.

If that were a semi-final in the champions league, the cards would be rescinded for Edu and Ibby, and the ref would be let go. That's because the robbed team would have just lost millions and is powerful enough as it's own entity to challenge UEFA. This is certainly true of the Vancouver match at home as well.

[Shakes McQueen]

I don't think Ibrahim dove, but I think he embellished, as all footballers do. Shouldn't have been carded for it. I was dumbfounded that the ref basically blew the same call twice with Edu and Ibrahim.

Except in Edu's case, he should have been taking a penalty, not getting carded.

- Scott

[Nuvinho]

Does MLS have an appeal process for cards? similiar to the EPL and FA, where on many occassions a ref's decision is reversed after looking at tape, etc.

[Dirk Diggler]

I personally think that they should stop giving yellows for simulation. More often than not, the refs seem to get it all wrong. They end up calling legitimate fouls as dives and dives as fouls. If you want to punish the divers, set up a panel that reviews the match after it has concluded and hand out fines and such afterwards (if someone is found guilty of clear cut simulation, that is).

[BigLou]

I personally think that they should stop giving yellows for simulation. More often than not, the refs seem to get it all wrong. They end up calling legitimate fouls as dives and dives as fouls. If you want to punish the divers, set up a panel that reviews the match after it has concluded and hand out fines and such afterwards (if someone is found guilty of clear cut simulation, that is).

1.Bang on with this one with one exception.....Performances like Schelotto's at BMO field earlier this year. Sometimes, there has to be a line.
2. I have an idea about the bad calls against us ( specifically at BMO) I feel the officials come in with this idea the crowd is going to encourage them to make wrong calls so they try to compensate. Other officials I feel just want to piss off the BMO faithful so they make these disasterous calls like the shite ref we had when we hosted the new york shite-y shite-s earlier this year. Maybe I just over think things.

[ensco]

I didn't see this before (maybe everyone else did) but here's something interesting that Jimmy Conrad wrote about the refs after the first KC-TFC game. It really is a big problem.

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/print?id=537110&type=story&cc=%25

[ExiledRed]

I'll even forgive you for issuing me the first body language yellow card in Major League Soccer history if you give Houston Dynamo midfielder Dwayne DeRosario one for his terrifying funky chicken dance after he scores. Based on your strict church-like views of bodily function, it only seems fair. Think about it.


Oh I like this Conrad guy.....

[JonO]

How about the next time you issue me a yellow card for doing the electric boogaloo, could you please just kick me in the crotch, as well, just to round out the absurdity?

I like him too :)

[ensco]

How about his opening line?

Dear Kevin Stott.... To fill in the uneducated, i.e., your point of view, about the incident.....