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Yohan
05-17-2012, 12:37 PM
Because you're bored. Well, I'm bored

Ranking TFC CBs (IMO)
1. Adrian Cann: After a long injury lay off, seems to have gotten match fitness back.
2. Doneil Henry: Solid partner to Cann and has a lot of heart.
3. Logan Emory: I think a lot of people are harsh on him, considering his limited appearance. A versatile defender who can also play LB, and has good first touch and passing.
4. Miguel Aceval: If it wasn't for his ability on set pieces, he'd be ranked lower.
5. Ty Harden: Tough luck and some poor mistakes means he'll be sitting on the bench for a long time.
6. Aaron Mound: Youngster who looks just about good as when Henry started to play for TFC. Needs first team mins on loan if possible for development.
? Dicoy Williams: Question is where he fits in once he returns from injury. He'll be at least a month away from full match fitness and that's with a lot of game mins. I think he'll be ranked somewhere between Emory and Aceval, but then again, he didn't play that many games for TFC before he got injured last year.

So question is, does TFC go look for another CB? Or hope that whatever we got right now jells enough, and stay healthy. I think we can agree that Cann-Henry partnership is what Winter will ride on until one of them drops form hugely.

Nuvinho
05-17-2012, 12:42 PM
Cann, Henry, Williams, Maund can stay. The rest are expendible.

We do still need a #1 CB - a leader. This will help Henry, Maund, and Williams develop.

Yohan
05-17-2012, 12:48 PM
Cann, Henry, Williams, Maund can stay. The rest are expendible.

We do still need a #1 CB - a leader. This will help Henry, Maund, and Williams develop.

The biggest thing I want to see is consistent starters in every game. That's how most MLS teams develop a half decent backline.
I think Eck-Henry-Cann-Morgan is pretty much set in stone, and I want to see how this works out at least until 26th (Philly game). Use the break to retool the backline if required

PopePouri
05-17-2012, 12:56 PM
The biggest thing I want to see is consistent starters in every game. That's how most MLS teams develop a half decent backline.
I think Eck-Henry-Cann-Morgan is pretty much set in stone, and I want to see how this works out at least until 26th (Philly game). Use the break to retool the backline if required

Well it's certainly the best so far. 2 of 3 games with a clean sheet with the Vancouver game requiring a moment of brilliance.

T-boy
05-17-2012, 12:58 PM
The biggest thing I want to see is consistent starters in every game. That's how most MLS teams develop a half decent backline.
I think Eck-Henry-Cann-Morgan is pretty much set in stone, and I want to see how this works out at least until 26th (Philly game). Use the break to retool the backline if required


AGREED!

Whoever the decided "best back 4" is - Winter needs to stick to those 4 for at LEAST 4 games in a row. They have to get used to playing together. Defending is all about co-ordination and relying on each other. No matter what he back 4 is - play them consistently!

Also agreed with somebody above, Emory has been given a hard time by fans so far, but for no real reason. He looks like a very tidy player, and he is strong going forward and dangerous from corners too, we need to give the guy a chance. He's new to the league also, so he needs time to adapt, just like any other new player.

backbeat
05-17-2012, 01:04 PM
i really liked Williams before the injury - i'd like to see a back line of Eck-Williams-Henry-Morgan. I liked the ball at Williams feet, much better than Cann - I think he would work well in the system if he can come back to form but i still think TFC need/require a strong #1 CB that can organize the line

MartinUtd
05-17-2012, 01:05 PM
Pretty much agree with your rankings. Have we seen Aceval play out wide yet? I seem to recall him being touted as a versatile defender but have only seen him playing CB.

Yohan
05-17-2012, 01:13 PM
AGREED!

Whoever the decided "best back 4" is - Winter needs to stick to those 4 for at LEAST 4 games in a row. They have to get used to playing together. Defending is all about co-ordination and relying on each other. No matter what he back 4 is - play them consistently!
Another key to a good MLS defence is a solid DM to shield the back line. JDG just don't have the physical tools to be a good MLS DM. Dunfield is too rash and erratic positioning. Stinson needs to bulk up more and more consistent.


Also agreed with somebody above, Emory has been given a hard time by fans so far, but for no real reason. He looks like a very tidy player, and he is strong going forward and dangerous from corners too, we need to give the guy a chance. He's new to the league also, so he needs time to adapt, just like any other new player.
I'd rate Emory over Williams, if people are looking for good technical CB.

T-boy
05-17-2012, 01:26 PM
Another key to a good MLS defence is a solid DM to shield the back line. JDG just don't have the physical tools to be a good MLS DM. Dunfield is too rash and erratic positioning. Stinson needs to bulk up more and more consistent.

I'd rate Emory over Williams, if people are looking for good technical CB.

I don't completely agree. How about Alonso? He's not a big guy in any way, but he covers ground and makes himself physical, even though he isn't built in any way. JDG does have the physique to be a good DM, but just hasn't proven it in the league yet!

Also, I don't think we have seen enough of either Williams OR Emory to really judge them fully yet. They both look capable, for sure.

backbeat
05-17-2012, 01:27 PM
Another key to a good MLS defence is a solid DM to shield the back line. JDG just don't have the physical tools to be a good MLS DM. Dunfield is too rash and erratic positioning. Stinson needs to bulk up more and more consistent.

I'd rate Emory over Williams, if people are looking for good technical CB.

Frings as DM

Emory over Williams? why? i thought williams was quite technical, great with the ball and coming into his own just before he got injured. Jamaica called him up around that time, actually i think that's when he got injured

Yohan
05-17-2012, 01:31 PM
I don't completely agree. How about Alonso? He's not a big guy in any way, but he covers ground and makes himself physical, even though he isn't built in any way. JDG does have the physique to be a good DM, but just hasn't proven it in the league yet!
Alonso is the best DM in the league right now, and have been pretty much since he signed for Sounders. The next DM on rapid rise is Perry Kitchen for DC. He's going to be really good DM for DC.

JDG just gets pushed off the ball so easily. I don't know whether it's desire, or just lack of physical attributes, but JDG just don't have it to constantly win balls for TFC.


Also, I don't think we have seen enough of either Williams OR Emory to really judge them fully yet. They both look capable, for sure.
Agreed. But I've watched Emory closely since preseason and he's got just as good touch as Adrian Serioux and better passer. Cool as cucumber when being pressured by opposition.

Yohan
05-17-2012, 01:33 PM
Emory over Williams? why? i thought williams was quite technical, great with the ball and coming into his own just before he got injured. Jamaica called him up around that time, actually i think that's when he got injured
I just have a huge doubt on Williams's recovery and after so much time out. It's like a year since Williams last played, and I don't want too much shake up right now

ryan
05-17-2012, 02:46 PM
It's interesting with how much we've desired help at CB, yet with Cann at health and some time under his belt, Henry having regular minutes with a regular partner...we've really improved at the position.

Not to say I wouldn't take a #1 CB upgrade over Cann, but we're becoming much more solid at the back with what we have. Hopefully this continues. I'm okay with Screech and Aceval stepping in to give our starters time off vs teams with a weaker offence. Williams is a pure wildcard until he's back, he could return to form or not at all.

Health and consistency in minutes/partners is potentially doing wonders for our back line. Hoping a similar effect offensively with the return of DK and Nick as shown in the final 30 minutes last night.

brad
05-17-2012, 06:34 PM
The biggest thing I want to see is consistent starters in every game. That's how most MLS teams develop a half decent backline.
I think Eck-Henry-Cann-Morgan is pretty much set in stone, and I want to see how this works out at least until 26th (Philly game). Use the break to retool the backline if required

DeVos has said this a few times - need a settled back four. While I don't need to hear that from someone like DeVos - it really does drive the point home when player like him that had a solid career as a defender starts saying it.

brad
05-17-2012, 06:40 PM
I think we are good - but I think we should be looking for an upgrade for Cann if we can find one and fit them into the roster/under the cap. Cann is pretty solid defensively but I'd like to see some better ball skills.

Henry and Morgan should be starting. Even if it means a few points dropped along road due to lack of experience, these kids look like the real deal to me and a few points dropped (when our season is already more or less done) is worth the development they get from playing regularly.

Emroy looks raw but pretty talented. Hard for me to rank him yet. I do say play him at left back and then move him to CB once he is a bit more developed if ready. That's a model that I am a fan of for more versatile players (Fergie does this with young players)

Auzzy
05-17-2012, 07:13 PM
As is the case with so many other things -- we really need a proper reserve league playing every week. (And/or a more senior Academy team, for players that graduate but aren't quite ready for MLS.) I thought the MLS reserves were supposed to get upgraded, but they still play so rarely, get bounced around to various dates & venues, etc. All of these guys that Yohan listed could at least be decent 2nd CBs, or backups, within the MLS context, but we don't really know. They regress because they don't get enough playing time for their personal skills & especially to gel with their teammates. (Or they get thrown out in pairs when there's a major hole, like the beginning of our season, and then are unduly criticized when, surprise surprise, they can't keep up with the top players from other teams.)

Same goes for some long-forgotten souls like Oscar Cordon, Keith Makubuya, Efrain Burgos, etc.

I still think we need a real top CB, but that makes it even more difficult for the rest of the bunch. If Williams comes back healthy, and we sign another first-string guy, I could see 2 or 3 of these guys getting traded or dropped. And with the limited time we've seen any of these guys in a stable CB pairing, and minimal reserve games, I have a hard time rating most of them.

trane
05-17-2012, 07:30 PM
Despite my comments about the goal, I think the kid is great. Cann is solid. The two of them together are a good. Could we use an upgrade, someone that Henry can rely learn from? Yep.

I am not crazy about any of the others. All of them seem to mistake prone to play in center of the defense.

Gringo Starr
05-17-2012, 08:43 PM
I agree with the need for a set of consistent starters but after the Vancouver game I'm thinking I'd like to see Hall get a run ahead of Ecks just to see how that works. I finds when Ecks charges up the field on one of his runs he almost always has a bad last touch and then has to scramble back and thats when some of the coverage gets blown, I wouldn't mind seeing if Hall could settle that but I don't think it will be likely.

justin
05-17-2012, 09:10 PM
Henry and Morgan should be starting...

Emroy looks raw but pretty talented. Hard for me to rank him yet. I do say play him at left back and then move him to CB once he is a bit more developed if ready.

So Morgan should be starting regularly...but Emory should also be playing at LB....that might be an interesting formation ;)

Hugh Jazz
05-19-2012, 08:07 AM
Not to say I wouldn't take a #1 CB upgrade over Cann, but we're becoming much more solid at the back with what we have. Hopefully this continues. I'm okay with Screech and Aceval stepping in to give our starters time off vs teams with a weaker offence. Williams is a pure wildcard until he's back, he could return to form or not at all.

He reminds me more of Jean Ralphio

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6g7BVtY1qPM

Hugh Jazz
05-19-2012, 08:24 AM
I don't think we'll see a consistent back four over the summer considering how many games there are from mid-June to July but hopefully towards the end of the season it becomes clear who the best options are. There are a few players that can win a starting CB spot and it looks like Ecks and Hall will both be working towards the RB spot.

Mak
05-21-2012, 11:50 PM
We need at least 3 additions to the back line. Outside of Eckersly we do not have solid capable professional players. Cann is a squad player and not a starter, while Henry and Morgan are academy developmental players. Still too young to play a large roll. They show promise but keep making mistakes that cost goals. Cann has been out to lunch. Out of position, chasing shadows, incapable of directing the defense whatsoever. He does not have the experience to help young players like Henry and Morgan. Emory is a squad/reserve team player, while I think Aceval would be a better player playing with an experienced central defender. Before coming to TFC he received his first call up to the Chilean national team just last September. It is obvious that he he is not being used to his potential. Bottom line is that we cannot have a back line of academy players and expect to challenge for a playoff spot.

DoubleUp
05-22-2012, 12:17 AM
We need at least 3 additions to the back line. Outside of Eckersly we do not have solid capable professional players. Cann is a squad player and not a starter, while Henry and Morgan are academy developmental players. Still too young to play a large roll. They show promise but keep making mistakes that cost goals. Cann has been out to lunch. Out of position, chasing shadows, incapable of directing the defense whatsoever. He does not have the experience to help young players like Henry and Morgan. Emory is a squad/reserve team player, while I think Aceval would be a better player playing with an experienced central defender. Before coming to TFC he received his first call up to the Chilean national team just last September. It is obvious that he he is not being used to his potential. Bottom line is that we cannot have a back line of academy players and expect to challenge for a playoff spot.

Though its a great achievement.


I think aceval is weak and not sound enough for the backline in our league, I would like to try him higher in lcm a double pivot with frings before I say he is not good enough at all.

Yohan
05-22-2012, 12:25 AM
Though its a great achievement.


I think aceval is weak and not sound enough for the backline in our league, I would like to try him higher in lcm a double pivot with frings before I say he is not good enough at all.I'd like to see Aceval at DM as well. with his passing ability, surely he deserves a chance there more than Dunfield

dow117
05-22-2012, 06:02 AM
the whole back 4 need to go. Cann is not comfortable on the ball and is a kick and run type. Morgan, for all the hype about this guy, is constantly out of position and I rate him our worst defender. Henry is athletic, fast but not positionally good enough. Ecks is better in mid D. These issues could be fixed by an experienced CB to anchor these guys,,, otherwise change em up

Section 117
05-22-2012, 01:08 PM
The back four and the subs all need to be taken out behind the barn and put out of their misery. THEY ARE ALL SHIT. They are a joke, my men's league team would shread that back four. I am disgusted that in 5 1/2 years we still cant find a decent defender. They shouldn't be considered professionals, cause they are all a joke.

Nuvinho
05-22-2012, 01:31 PM
The back four and the subs all need to be taken out behind the barn and put out of their misery. THEY ARE ALL SHIT. They are a joke, my men's league team would shread that back four. I am disgusted that in 5 1/2 years we still cant find a decent defender. They shouldn't be considered professionals, cause they are all a joke.

like!

Mak
05-22-2012, 07:11 PM
I can't believe the back line has not been solidified in the 5.5 years. Not purely the coach's fault. For example, look at Chelsea FC. The new manager has yet to be determined, but the team is out actively pursuing transfer candidates in order to get the team ready for the summer. They have the management depth and scouting to go out and pursue players. We have Cochrane, Anselmi, Paul B that have been around this team from the beginning and I don't know why they are employed. Outside of Ecks, everyone must go.