Post Game: CCL TFC1 - VAN 1

[Batman]

crap..that hurts..but what a shot!

coulda, woulda, shoulda..

I guess we can live with it.. but with both the missed hand ball and Soolsma's sitter.. we could have put it away

[PopePouri]

Not really.

[Brooker]

good result. better than i expected. nothing could be done about that last goal.

[Furtado91]

That goal just really freaking hurts. shit, it was a shot.

[tfcfans]

Overall a good result -- I think most of us would have taken a 1-1 result (especially on the road) before the match started. There was no shame in giving up that goal to Hassli - that was a world class finish.

[mowe]

If we're going to give up a goal in stoppage time, I'd rather it be like this. Absolute beauty.

Home leg should be interesting, could really go either way.

[Ageroo]

nothing crap about that....unfortunate but no keeper in the world was stopping that. Away goal always good.

[Relja]

It always happens like this a late goal takes it away......but what a finish.....

[Couchy81]

Wasn't a bad effort, Soolsma should have converted and that 4 v 1 is no excuse, but the minute before that happened it showed a closeup of Plata and he looked gassed, Winter should have subbed Plata for Koevs instead of Lambe. Pretty goal by Hassli, the guy has some killer highlight goals for Vancouver.

[ManUtd4ever]

Solid effort by TFC tonight, a well deserved result, and an entertaining match overall.

[Lumpy]

Great result. Not a good decision by Henry to leave Hassli open in the box in the last minutes of the game. Overall Henry had a good game though.

[Roogsy]

Good game! Nothing to be ashamed of. TFC were the better team. It was only pure luck for Vancouver that has allowed them to take a draw from this game. 99 times out of 100, Hassli's goal does not go in.

[ChrisFizik]

pretty good match! Surprising solid play from TFC.
Ridiculous Hassli goal. Beautiful to watch, but really annoyed at it.
Left open, geez.... he was just waiting for it. Damn bad boy/tattoos. Gosh I hate that guy.

Danny K back on the pitch. Some other bright spots with Morgan, even JDG kind of held it down first half. Not forgetting Johnson.

Weak crowd in attendance. We'll remedy that next week.

--

[prizby]

you look at the game and you say damn, should of won 3-0 or something...but lets be perfectly honest, if someone 3 hours ago came up to you and offered you a 1-1 draw in tonights match, you'd have been happy with that result

[West220Side]

My 2 cents?

Viewed this game as a little preview to see if the boys would be moving in a positive direction on the pitch.
Now onto D.C. for the real test.

[lerxst]

good result. better than i expected. nothing could be done about that last goal.

I don't know why there was a free kick given just prior to the Assli goal. The guy was stripped, he went to ground, pussy of a ref was too scared NOT to make the call. Anyway; the boys played well and deserved better. Vacuntver got lucky.

[Yohan]

Yeah. No need to feel bad about this result. For TFC defence to be undone by a world class volley, shit happens.

TFC took advantage of some bad lineup decision by Martin Rennie who put in Barbara and Watson instead of Hassli and Chiumiento. Plus the road travel on the Caps showed as they looked pretty gassed by 75th min.

The defence looked much more organized and the offence can string some passes together. Certainly better than a lot of other MLS teams (if you saw Portland vs Houston game yesterday, you'd know what I mean)

It's a very positive result for a team that can use all the positivity. Let's hope the lads aren't too down by giving up another last min goal, and get a result at DC on Sat

[Roogsy]

And I don't blame Soolsma. Isn't it his first game back? He's just a little rusty.

[smtavare]

I think Dunfied was on the verge of a red card but didn't get one out of pure luck.

I think Ashtone Morgan didn't play well at all - his play is regressing, and neither did DeGuzman as usual - never mind the assist on the Jonhson goal.

[Rene Kingsriver]

Going to be a very interesting game next Wednesday, don't think we can sit back and defend but can't really totally go for it either.

[lobo]

ok result ... i suppose he coulda been marked better, but what an amazing volley by hassli

that being said .... for fuck sakes the last 10 minutes was just TFC foul after TFC foul, pulling van players down, morgan running over them, and then YET ANOTHER goal against in added time ... could feel it comin

when will find consistency in our play?

[Ageroo]

Good game! Nothing to be ashamed of. TFC were the better team. It was only pure luck for Vancouver that has allowed them to take a draw from this game. 99 times out of 100, Hassli's goal does not go in.

crappy to see that 1% though....I don't know if TFC were the better team though....balanced in my opinion. Choosing to continue to pressure was a good move though. I liked the subs, but unfortunate that Hassli cracked that one.

[Yohan]

Ridiculous Hassli goal. Beautiful to watch, but really annoyed at it.
Left open, geez.... he was just waiting for it. Damn bad boy/tattoos. Gosh I hate that guy.

Nobody would have expected Hassli to take that on the volley. The defender likely expected him to take a touch and the shoot, which gives him time to get in the way of the ball.


Weak crowd in attendance. We'll remedy that next week.

--I heard 14k for the match. I doubt we will do better

[lerxst]

I think Dunfied was on the verge of a red card but didn't get one out of pure luck.

I think Ashtone Morgan didn't play well at all - his play is regressing, and neither did DeGuzman as usual - never mind the assist on the Jonhson goal.

I have to disagree with you there. I though DeGuzman played a solid game. He was moving the ball well and not giving Vancouver any room up the middle.

[ensco]

One of the hardest shots I have ever seen. Milos Kocic flinched. Which is an amazing thing, he doesn't look to me like someone who is scared of anything, I bet he has never flinched in his entire career.

If one of our guys ever scores one like that, we'll talk about it for years. My hat is off to Hassli. He's now had three or four amazing goals.

The draw was fair, I thought. We played very well at times, running around at others.

[JonO]

Soolsma should have scored like Vancouver should have scored at the end of the first half - sometimes the goalie makes a nice save.

[smtavare]

heard 14k for the match. I doubt we will do better

Sure we will, the only meaningful games are the Voyageurs Cup and CCL Games now? I predict at least 18K on gameday.

[Roogsy]

crappy to see that 1% though....I don't know if TFC were the better team though....balanced in my opinion. Choosing to continue to pressure was a good move though. I liked the subs, but unfortunate that Hassli cracked that one.

Vancouver were playing far too aggressive. They didn't have their heads about them. TFC's passes were crisper and more accurate. They didn't have an abundance of opportunities but the ones they did create were good quality. I think TFC were more impressive on the night.

[RedRum]

Happy with the result and our play especially considering no Frings. Ref was a fucking clown. Different card and foul standard depending on the team. I counted 2 handballs in the box at the end, one that was beyond obvious, the other I am 90% sure and look forward to seeing a replay if anyone PVR'd it. Should be going home up 2-0. I always give props when they are due, but the Southsiders support is garbage... to think Lenarduzzi charges an extra $200 to be near these clowns.

[smtavare]

Wow Roogsy, all your comments have been super positive today. Have you been drinking some of the Vodka Spiked KoolAid we brought. LOL!

What a nice change on these boards when its a non-league game!

[19Barrett19]

PLayer ratings for tonight in my opinion,

Kocic 8.0
Hall 6.0
Cann 7.5
Henry 9.5
Morgan 9.0
De Guzman 8.0
Dunfield 4.5
Avila 6.5
Johnson 8.0
Plata 6.5
Lambe 7.0
Koevermans 7.0
Silva 6.5
Soolsma 7.0

Winter: 7.5

All in all very good result in an away game without our Captain Torsten Frings he would of played in place of Dunfield for sure. We win with a at home next week with the following results... 0-0, 2-1, 1-0, and a 2-2 draw puts us trophy less. Torsten will fix that next week we have to be loud and proud at BMO Field next Wednesday best we have ever been.

[MartinUtd]

Hall started out poorly but improved when he got comfortable. The rest of the back line was solid, especially Doniel Henry who broke up a lot of key plays when Vancouver just needed to get past the last red shirt. Our attacking mids all played well together as well... saw some great combinations from Avila/Lambe and Soolsma/Plata. I really liked Johnson out wide after Koevermans came on. Danny's presence really allows the attacking third some breathing space, although I've gotta say it was kind of sad watching him chase that ball down when he looked to be clear on goal. The DM's still leave something to be desired despite the fact there were no major fuck ups this time. Dunfield was close to being sent off, which may be been a good thing considering all the possession he lost and JDG almost seemed afraid to pass forward (assist notwithstanding). It could be either a lack of confidence in his team mates or I'm just not seeing the full picture though a camera lens.

Overall I'm happy with the result but feel a bit deflated in the process.

[Roogsy]

Wow Roogsy, all your comments have been super positive today. Have you been drinking some of the Vodka Spiked KoolAid we brought. LOL!

What a nice change on these boards when its a non-league game!

We should leave MLS and play the 3 other Canadian teams 10 times each as our entire season. We'd be the Barcelona of CONCACAF!

[ensco]

What a nice change on these boards when its a non-league game!

Nothing to do with it being non-league. Listen, that was a great football game. Any time we play well, draw on the road, and the opposition gets the result on a world class goal, that's a great football game.

[ag futbol]

I think that counts as a fairly solid result. Vancouver has been one of the better MLS teams so far this season. I don't know how Hassli lost his man there, but that was one hell of a volley.

Note to sportsnet: get a better sideline reporter. I wanted to puke watching that post game interview.

[MartinUtd]

Damn bad boy/tattoos. Gosh I hate that guy.
--
I know what you mean but it's not that he has tattoo's, it's that he has that big spiderweb on his elbow that screams COLLEGE GOTH!

[smtavare]

Did anyone miss Bob DeKlerk's sideline hijinks today. It was the first game with Jimmy B.today

[MartinUtd]

Did anyone miss Bob DeKlerk's sideline hijinks today. It was the first game with Jimmy B.today

I missed it.. what happened?

[Yohan]

http://www.mlssoccer.com/matchcenter/2012-05-16-van-v-tor/chalkboard

Opta board. RJ and Henry were all over the place

[GuelphStorm2007]

A decent road result I am pleased to bad they couldnt hold on to that lead but what a volley by Ink Man. I still think the real test is on Saturday.

[Brooker]

I missed it.. what happened?

Nothing.

[Yohan]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=6_NISUPx4BY

[Auzzy]

None of the news articles I've read about the game, understand the importance of the TFC away goal.

[mowe]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=6_NISUPx4BY

Even better than I remembered watching it live. Wow.

[Roogsy]

The defender played it ok. No blame there. It was simply awesome.

[MrRobson]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=6_NISUPx4BY

Simply remarkable.

[Cashcleaner]

Didn't get a chance to watch the game tonight because I was working, so I had to make do with the highlights. Man, I thought people were trying to hype it up, but Hassli's goal is fucking beautiful. It's really only marred by the fact that it hit the back of OUR net. :(

[Technorgasm]

Sign hasli.
Away goal better than expected.
Next mat h will take it at BMO.

[brad]

Funny thing about Hassli - His goal against NE last week broke a long scoring drought. I think it was 14 games without a goal. Another big target man that went through a rough patch an is back on form. Don't write Koevs off yet.

[Fort York Redcoat]

We should leave MLS and play the 3 other Canadian teams 10 times each as our entire season. We'd be the Barcelona of CONCACAF!

Which would be fine till we meet the Chelsea of CONCACAF...oooooooooooh g:D sorry man couldn't resist. I know- too soon.:(

Morgan and Henry worked there asses off but they weren't the only ones. JDG, Plata and moreso Dunfield were run into the ground. I'd say for Dunfield that and a desperation to prove to us he should've moved from Vancouver put SO MUCH aggression in his game. Like, playing for his job kind of aggression. Replay showed him absolutely assaulting his opposition. He was lucky to stay on the pitch but great effort.

Johnson has steps to take to make him a hands down top spot for me. Great speed and brave in the box (most times alone in there) but it's those one on ones once he lets a defender inside 4ft he slows down. Little things he can work on to get to the player I'm sure he could be. The outstanding misstep I thought was when he failed to take the clear opportunity once his defender dropped to the floor. With half a pitch in front of him he moved it 2 steps, stopped to wait to cross it in. Like I said, little things, but really like parts of his game.

[Oldtimer]

The defense kept their shape quite well. Sad about the Hassli goal, it would have been nice going to BMO 1-0, but that was a great goal.
How well would TFC done all these years if games were only 80 minutes long?

I was pretty impressed with Morgan. If the academy can turn out a few more like him, it will be a good success.

So, the usual shambolic defense wasn't present this game. Do we give credit to Jimmy B. for turning things around so soon? :D

The players didn't play like they were terrified to make a mistake, like they did through much of the 0-8 games. Did removing the fiery BDK help the team just by the absence of his screaming at the team? Or is TFC just a great cup team and a terrible league team? I guess we'll see against DC.

[T-boy]

It was simply a stunning goal by Hassli. Even the most hardcore TFC fan has to admire that one.

I love our Koev's, but he doesn't have that finish in his locker of tricks.

It also shows that Hassli is a DP that isn't the wrong side of 32 aleady. He has that bit more left in the tank compared to Koev's it seems. Koev's is a good player and holds the ball up well, but Hassli has that ability to turn a game, and that's what you really need in a DP, THAT is where that extra money goes.

[T-boy]

The defense kept their shape quite well. Sad about the Hassli goal, it would have been nice going to BMO 1-0, but that was a great goal.
How well would TFC done all these years if games were only 80 minutes long?

I was pretty impressed with Morgan. If the academy can turn out a few more like him, it will be a good success.

So, the usual shambolic defense wasn't present this game. Do we give credit to Jimmy B. for turning things around so soon? :D

The players didn't play like they were terrified to make a mistake, like they did through much of the 0-8 games. Did removing the fiery BDK help the team just by the absence of his screaming at the team? Or is TFC just a great cup team and a terrible league team? I guess we'll see against DC.

Time will tell on this one. Either way, DC is a tough place to go get a result, so I'm not expecting a complete change in league results this weekend.

[Phil]

None of the news articles I've read about the game, understand the importance of the TFC away goal.

Hell, even Gerry and Craig were going on during the game like we were dead and burried, then at the end they started to pull it back. Even then I don't get the feeling that they understand the signifigance of the away goal.

The meida (generally) only understand wins and losses, not the strategy in a two legged football match.

I am happy with the result and Hassli's goal was amazing.

[Oldtimer]

Credit needs to be given for Rochat's excellent cross. That was a good part of Hassli's goal (the stunning finish was the other part). If Hassli had needed a second touch, he wouldn't have gotten the shot off.

BTW, Ryan Wolstat of the Sun noted the away goal. At least one journalist understands the away goals rule.

[__wowza]

entertaining game, thats for sure. we both went through huge stretches of attacking play. it was good to see the reds push forward and trying to get some goals, but it would've been better if we didnt go off an announce it pre-game. it wouldve been interesting to see whitecaps play the first 10 thinking they were going to face the same team that defended for a full 90 in montreal.

having said that, heres a few observations:
- fuck me i wanted that soolsma goal.
- morgan was fantastic.
- hall improved as the game went on.
- dunfield was his typical physical, occasional screwup self.
- surprisingly good performance from JDG.
- we need to stop crossing into the box when theres no one covering the opposite flank, seriously, how many attacking opportunities did we squander with a ball floating well over someones head and ending up at the opposite flank no one there?
- kovermans was being a typical shit disturber trying to get under cannons skin, he's fuckin fired up. expect goals from him.
- is it just me, or did cann look terrified whenever he got the ball at his feet? moreso than usual.

[Ageroo]

Funny thing about Hassli - His goal against NE last week broke a long scoring drought. I think it was 14 games without a goal. Another big target man that went through a rough patch an is back on form. Don't write Koevs off yet.

Here Here......


It was simply a stunning goal by Hassli. Even the most hardcore TFC fan has to admire that one.

I love our Koev's, but he doesn't have that finish in his locker of tricks.

It also shows that Hassli is a DP that isn't the wrong side of 32 aleady. He has that bit more left in the tank compared to Koev's it seems. Koev's is a good player and holds the ball up well, but Hassli has that ability to turn a game, and that's what you really need in a DP, THAT is where that extra money goes.

Hassli has 2 goals in 9 league appearances for Vancouver....and pretty much why he is coming off the bench. Not saying he isn't good, but just because he scores "big flashy goals" doesn't make him better or worse that Koevermans. I do agree with you however that he does have that big finish though. Personally I'll still take Koevermans in a heartbeat.

[bigredone]

I was very happy with yesterday. All the boys did well and the ones that did not was no surprise. The score could have easily been 3 - 1.

Does anyone know what the deal was when Koevermans was hassling and probably scaring the shit outta Cannon? That was hilarious and I want to see it again.

[Fort York Redcoat]

It was simply a stunning goal by Hassli. Even the most hardcore TFC fan has to admire that one.

I love our Koev's, but he doesn't have that finish in his locker of tricks.

It also shows that Hassli is a DP that isn't the wrong side of 32 aleady. He has that bit more left in the tank compared to Koev's it seems. Koev's is a good player and holds the ball up well, but Hassli has that ability to turn a game, and that's what you really need in a DP, THAT is where that extra money goes.

The only difference is in the manner Hassli scores. He's had 2 shots like that in 2 years. Some players go their whole careers without one like that and that's to his credit but his 2 in 9 this year isn't that much more impressive than DK's 1 in 5.

Before we go crazy overstating the manner of Hassli's goals- 10 in 26 last year to DK's 8 in 10.

-Edit- Ags beats me to it. Sorry T.

[ryan]

I think Ashtone Morgan didn't play well at all - his play is regressing,

wat.

He's clearly found his stroke again with his crosses, a shame nobody was ever there but he's starting to lay them in there nicely like he was at season's start. He competed well, took some soft fouls but was otherwise decent if not pretty good last night.

[ryan]

The only difference is in the manner Hassli scores. He's had 2 shots like that in 2 years. Some players go their whole careers without one like that and that's to his credit but his 2 in 9 this year isn't that much more impressive than DK's 1 in 5.

Before we go crazy overstating the manner of his goals 10 in 26 last year to DK's 8 in 10.

Yep.

Does THAT extra money also pay for 17 game scoreless droughts? (or however long it was) Two sides of the coin here!




Having DK up there to receive passes and distribute out to the wings has been sorely missed, it showed in his limited time last night. Can't wait to bolster our squad with Frings for the final.

[ensco]

All strikers are streaky. I have not written off Koeverman's but Vancouver's depth at striker is really impressive, that's why Hassli is struggling for minutes. I have also read on the Vancouver boards that he and Rennie may be having issues.

I would trade Koevs for Hassli in a flash.

[Canary10]

The Hassli goal started from a really questionable foul called on Soolsma. That said, that was a scorcher. Hats off to him. His goal last year didn't get goal of the year because people thought it was lucky. Seeing that last night, I don't think so.

[Roogsy]

I'd say for Dunfield that and a desperation to prove to us he should've moved from Vancouver put SO MUCH aggression in his game. Like, playing for his job kind of aggression. Replay showed him absolutely assaulting his opposition. He was lucky to stay on the pitch but great effort.

It's like he was motivated or something... :lol:

[TFCBarrie]

All strikers are streaky. I have not written off Koeverman's but Vancouver's depth at striker is really impressive, that's why Hassli is struggling for minutes. I have also read on the Vancouver boards that he and Rennie may be having issues.

I would trade Koevs for Hassli in a flash.

That's crazy. Koevermans is TWICE the striker Hassli is. His current strike rate is TWICE as good and his historical strike rate is FOUR TIMES as good.

[Roogsy]

Hassli has 2 goals in 9 league appearances for Vancouver....and pretty much why he is coming off the bench. Not saying he isn't good, but just because he scores "big flashy goals" doesn't make him better or worse that Koevermans. I do agree with you however that he does have that big finish though. Personally I'll still take Koevermans in a heartbeat.

Hassli showed last year that he was INCREDIBLY streaky. Not only did he score only 10 in 26, he put most of them in at the beginning of the year and finished off the season with a whimper.

I am not sure that people truly understand how streaky strikers really are. That's why I believe Koevs will definitely catch fire at some point this year and bag 5 in 6 or something like that.

[Shakes McQueen]

It's a push for me between Hassli and Koevs. Koev has been off to a slow start, but he has also had some fitness and health issues, yet still managed roughly the same strike rate so far this season, and a far better one last season. Of course, Hassli is also cheaper, and not at the end of his career.

- Scott

[bigredone]

As mentioned in other threads, defenders gravitate to Koevs freeing up space on the wings. He will contribute endlessly to our team in many ways.

Sorry for repeating myself, but any clue what Koevs was up to when hassling Cannon. I can't find a vid. or commentary on it. Very funny though!

[Shakes McQueen]

Hassli showed last year that he was INCREDIBLY streaky. Not only did he score only 10 in 26, he put most of them in at the beginning of the year and finished off the season with a whimper.

I am not sure that people truly understand how streaky strikers really are. That's why I believe Koevs will definitely catch fire at some point this year and bag 5 in 6 or something like that.

Yeah, Hassli garners a lot of attention outside Vancouver due to his small handful of really beautiful goals, but what gets lost in that publicity is the fact that he's super streaky, and didn't do much down the stretch.

I'm not worried about Koevs. He just needs a chance to get back into the routine of playing a lot, and a team at his back that isn't playing like an 0-8 squad.

- Scott

[TFCBarrie]

Hassli is only 2 years younger. I would take Koevermans for any game, for a million different reasons over a middle-of-the-road striker like Hassli. I honestly think that the general discontent around TFC is leading people to diminish how truly good Koev's was and IS.

[jabbronies]

That Hassli strike was incredible. Hard to do anything about that one.
For the most part, the game was pretty boring. Second half was better than the first, but still not too exciting.

One thing I like about our team is the different style of attacks that we have developed.

Started the game off with speed and flare in Plata, Lambe and Avila.
When that didn't work it was changed up and played the hold and run style with Koevs, Johnson and Sooslma.

Pace vs. Strength
When one doesn't work, use the other.

[Fort York Redcoat]

All strikers are streaky. I have not written off Koeverman's but Vancouver's depth at striker is really impressive, that's why Hassli is struggling for minutes. I have also read on the Vancouver boards that he and Rennie may be having issues.

I would trade Koevs for Hassli in a flash.

Flash is the word for it. I think Hassli plays better mad and challenging for top spot. If he was here presently he'd be top spot and our team doesn't seem to do well with flashy personalities. I think he's looking so good at Vanny because of where he is on the depth chart.


It's like he was motivated or something... :lol:

With ensco's point in mind and talking about team personality it would be hard not to elevate Dunfield to Brennan status shortly. Canada player, scrappier than he is precise. An "All-heart" player that will be given a break to a certain point because of it and attacked for that by others that can't stand any special treatment.

Agree/Disagree?

[Shakes McQueen]

With ensco's point in mind and talking about team personality it would be hard not to elevate Dunfield to Brennan status shortly. Canada player, scrappier than he is precise. An "All-heart" player that will be given a break to a certain point because of it and attacked for that by others that can't stand any special treatment.

Agree/Disagree?

I think Brennan's (largely undeserved) one-time hero status is a one-off that won't happen with Dunfield. Even looking through this forum, there are plenty of people who think he hasn't been that great for us.

We appreciate role-players and scrappers, but we don't elevate every single one to hero status.

- Scott

[VoxPopuliCosmicum]

Sorry for repeating myself, but any clue what Koevs was up to when hassling Cannon. I can't find a vid. or commentary on it. Very funny though!

I'm speculating, but based on Koev's interaction with the referee a minute after hassling the ref, I think Koevs was making a point about the Vancouver handball non-call. Kinda like, "If your players can knock down crosses/headers with their hands, then I can smack the ball loose from your keeper with my hands."

[brad]

I am not sure that people truly understand how streaky strikers really are. That's why I believe Koevs will definitely catch fire at some point this year and bag 5 in 6 or something like that.

Very true. I think sometimes our views of such things get warped by watching too much top flight football. The top forwards tend to be far less streaky (for the most part - but even those guys go through scoring droughts if they aren't named Ronaldo or Messi)

But that is a large part of why they are where they are.

[PAOK17]

Hell, even Gerry and Craig were going on during the game like we were dead and burried, then at the end they started to pull it back. Even then I don't get the feeling that they understand the signifigance of the away goal.

The meida (generally) only understand wins and losses, not the strategy in a two legged football match.

I am happy with the result and Hassli's goal was amazing.

I love how Gerry says "it changes everything" after Hassli scores. Yeah it changes the fact that Vancouver got a draw instead of a loss but it still doesn't change who is currently in the better position to win the final. It's those kinds of mistimed extreme comments that make him and other commentators really show their lack of competence. And to be fair, I acknowledge the fact that Dobson actually knows the importance of the away goal...it's just he doesn't know how to communicate it. Now that goal is was amazing but the media making it sound like Vancouver stole it away from Toronto is too extreme. That goal has potential to be significant next week but it doesn't change the fact that Vancouver has to score in Toronto. Amazing goal yes, but if this were a UEFA CL semi final and the home team scores to tie it late..the media would be focussing on the match as a wasted chance for the home team and a good result for the away team. The amazing goal would be secondary. Here the goal became bigger than the game itself.

[Canary10]

^ Most in our media seem to really enjoy it when Toronto loses or something bad happens. That's what I would attribute this to. Jason de Vos is another one.

[KGH]

My thoughts on watching the game:

1) The backline played quite well in comparison to other games this year. Its great to see how we can look attacking when you don't have to worry about the back 4 as much.
2) If we could finish this game would have been a blow out.
3) Winter got the line up and most of the subs right.
4) Johnson is most dangerous when he's on the left wing and Koev is playing the target man and draws the defense in.
5) The Ref let this game get out of hand. He was bad but bad across the board.

Back line:
Hall - I initially wrote off Hall this year but the more I see him play the more I like him. I like him and ecks competing at the RB position. Maybe Ecks can pick up some of his maturity?
Cann - Awful with the ball at his feet put still played pretty well.
Henry - This kid is getting better and better as his confidence grows. He showed some potential with the ball at his feet and has some good pace. He was at fault with the Hassli goal but I bet you next time we play them he plays a step or 2 closer.
Morgan - Depsite what people are saying about him having a bad game I think he did a remarkable job shutting down one of the best forwards in MLS. How many opportunities did Le Toux have? 1?

Mids:

JDG - had a great game in my opinion. Thats what he needs to bring each and every game.
Dunfield - The kid has heart. Too bad his skill level doesn't match it. He's a good late game sub to bring energy but Frings was missed.
Avila - Had some flashes of good but
Silva - Good sub. Brought a bit of energy but made some rookie mistakes.

Forwards:

Lambe - Good play box to box. Not much to say about him.
Johnson - Was way more effective on the left when Koev came in. As a target man he's just not overly effective.
Plata - In my mind was virtually invisable most of the game.
Koev - Played extremely well coming back from injury. Clogged up the middle and drew the defenders for Johnsons goal. Needs a week or 2 to get his full match fitness back.
Soolsma - I think his play has earned him back his starting position on the right. Great on the ball but man he's got to finish that 2-1.

[T-boy]

All strikers are streaky. I have not written off Koeverman's but Vancouver's depth at striker is really impressive, that's why Hassli is struggling for minutes. I have also read on the Vancouver boards that he and Rennie may be having issues.

I would trade Koevs for Hassli in a flash.

Strikers are always streaky like bacon.

I said earlier in another thread that Hassli has scored 3 out of 4 of his last games. Now 4 out of 5 in all competitions. That's what you call a hot streak!

Koev's is unfortunately in the opposite streak right now.

P.S I actually WOULD trade Koev's for Hassli. Hassli has a couple of years more to play that Koev's, and he seems to have a different dimension to his game than Koev's. Plus. I've always had a soft spot for the hard man striker. My favourite player of all time is Paul Moody, he was a brute, and you never knew if he would score a hat trick or be sent off for hitting the opponents centre back. But he was great to watch! Koev's is more a 6 yard box striker, so a little less spectacular in the excitment department.

[T-boy]

Very true. I think sometimes our views of such things get warped by watching too much top flight football. The top forwards tend to be far less streaky (for the most part - but even those guys go through scoring droughts if they aren't named Ronaldo or Messi)

But that is a large part of why they are where they are.

Even the top strikers in Europe go in streaks. Take Van Persie. He was premiership top scorer - but he still went from the start of March until the end of April without scoring a goal! Rooney, second top scorer, didn't score a league goal between October and December, then scored 10 in ten games!

[PopePouri]

wat.

He's clearly found his stroke again with his crosses, a shame nobody was ever there but he's starting to lay them in there nicely like he was at season's start. He competed well, took some soft fouls but was otherwise decent if not pretty good last night.

He marked Le Toux out of the game. He had that chance at the end of the half when he was caught out but that's it. It's why he was bitching so much.

[T-boy]

He marked Le Toux out of the game. He had that chance at the end of the half when he was caught out but that's it. It's why he was bitching so much.

I don't understand why Le Toux was playing wide right of the strikers? Didn't make any sense? He's their most natural scorer, and you play him wide? That's definitely a mistake in management.

[PopePouri]

I don't understand why Le Toux was playing wide right of the strikers? Didn't make any sense? He's their most natural scorer, and you play him wide? That's definitely a mistake in management.

They play 4-2-3-1 with Camilo and Le Toux on the wings. Maybe he'd be better at the no. 10 position.

[T-boy]

They play 4-2-3-1 with Camilo and Le Toux on the wings. Maybe he'd be better at the no. 10 position.

It reminded me of Kenny Cooper being played wide at Portland last season. I thought then that he's completely wasted playing near the wing. And sure enough, he goes to Red Bulls and he is playing centrally, and is scoring for fun!

Le Toux is a natural number 10, and has that goalscoring instinct. Lucky for us, and the rest of the league, that Rennie doesn't seem to realise that!

[BayernTFC]

I think that counts as a fairly solid result. Vancouver has been one of the better MLS teams so far this season. I don't know how Hassli lost his man there, but that was one hell of a volley.
Yeah, I think that TFC implemented their game plan as well as could be expected. It was very close to being a better result, but 1-1 away is quite good for us. I wouldn't necessarily describe it as Hassli losing his man. Henry knew he was there, but it's not like Henry could afford to abandon the rest of the penalty area to stick closer to Hassli. Otherwise, Rochat is likely to lead another attacker into the box with a through ball and then Henry would be getting blamed for that. It's just Vancouver taking advantage of the concentration of TFC players on the left, Hassli doing an excellent job of finding some space, and Rochat delivering an amazing cross. Henry tries to close down on Hassli, but he just doesn't have enough time because Hassli takes a shot on the volley. It's an absolute wonder strike from Hassli that bends into the top corner of the goal on the short side.

[BayernTFC]

wat.

He's clearly found his stroke again with his crosses, a shame nobody was ever there but he's starting to lay them in there nicely like he was at season's start. He competed well, took some soft fouls but was otherwise decent if not pretty good last night.
I would agree that Morgan's crosses were much improved in this match. While he did commit some sloppy fouls towards the end of the match, I don't think enough credit is being given to how silent Le Toux was kept last night. Morgan did an excellent job of harassing Le Toux and limiting his opportunities to have an impact on the game.

I've been quite impressed with Morgan, and Henry since he has been receiving regular minutes, this season. I think they've been a bright spot at the back for us and they have shown a level of comfort when playing beside one another. I hope it continues.

[Roogsy]

It reminded me of Kenny Cooper being played wide at Portland last season. I thought then that he's completely wasted playing near the wing. And sure enough, he goes to Red Bulls and he is playing centrally, and is scoring for fun!

Le Toux is a natural number 10, and has that goalscoring instinct. Lucky for us, and the rest of the league, that Rennie doesn't seem to realise that!

I found that odd last night too. Le Toux is far less effective where Rennie has him now. Not sure what Rennie is thinking.

[bigredone]

I'm speculating, but based on Koev's interaction with the referee a minute after hassling the ref, I think Koevs was making a point about the Vancouver handball non-call. Kinda like, "If your players can knock down crosses/headers with their hands, then I can smack the ball loose from your keeper with my hands."

Thanks! I love that man, he thinks he is unDUTCHable!

[BayernTFC]

Hall - I initially wrote off Hall this year but the more I see him play the more I like him. I like him and ecks competing at the RB position. Maybe Ecks can pick up some of his maturity?

I think it's still too early to make definitive judgements about Jeremy Hall at this point. He really struggled to keep up with Camilo in the first half last night. He has shown some good offensive awareness in his initial appearances for TFC. His cross into the box on Johnson's header on goal towards the end of first half was a high point.

[Dunkers]

Funny thing about Hassli - His goal against NE last week broke a long scoring drought. I think it was 14 games without a goal. Another big target man that went through a rough patch an is back on form. Don't write Koevs off yet.

He has 4 in the last 5 games. Including a 90th min winner against SJ. But he did have a long goal less drought prior to that

[Yohan]

Funny thing about Hassli - His goal against NE last week broke a long scoring drought. I think it was 14 games without a goal. Another big target man that went through a rough patch an is back on form. Don't write Koevs off yet.

Hassli scored the game winner in stoppage time vs SJ. He's on 4 game scoring streak or something.

[trane]

We looked good overall. A bit unfocused going forward, untill Koevs came in. A few defensive mistakes, but only one costs us.


The goal was not a horrible mistake, but Morgan was marking out of position, and Henry was playing to far off of Hassli, allowing him to receive the ball with space to shoot. Henry had a great game again, but in that situation he needs to mark the strikers closer, and put the body on him before he receives the ball. I understand who it happened, as Hassli was not in a particularly dangerous position, but anytime you have the striker in the box you need to take space away from them.

[Yohan]

I found that odd last night too. Le Toux is far less effective where Rennie has him now. Not sure what Rennie is thinking.

Yeah. Same thing happened in Seattle and Philly when Le Toux played on LW. he's just not effective enough coming from the wings. Also, Le Toux has great stamina, but he's playing a bit tired

[Ageroo]

He has 4 in the last 5 games. Including a 90th min winner against SJ. But he did have a long goal less drought prior to that

2 are in Amway competitions though right? Not putting down the 4 in 5, but just trying to clarify it. MLS stats has him with 2 goals on the season in League play. It is unfortunate for him that Vancouver has so many options up front.....but I am sure with his form of late that he will find his starting role back.

I'll still take Koevs.....:)

[Redcoe15]

I like our side's chances heading into next week's match at BMO Field.

COME ON YOU REDS!!! :scarf:

[brad]

He has 4 in the last 5 games. Including a 90th min winner against SJ. But he did have a long goal less drought prior to that


Hassli scored the game winner in stoppage time vs SJ. He's on 4 game scoring streak or something.

That's the point I was getting at. Hassli was scoring, then he went threw a barren patch, and he's scoring again.

Koevs scored a bunch, went threw barren patch, but hasn't come out the other side yet. He might not, but I think he will.

That's how strikers work.

[Shakes McQueen]

We looked good overall. A bit unfocused going forward, untill Koevs came in. A few defensive mistakes, but only one costs us.


The goal was not a horrible mistake, but Morgan was marking out of position, and Henry was playing to far off of Hassli, allowing him to receive the ball with space to shoot. Henry had a great game again, but in that situation he needs to mark the strikers closer, and put the body on him before he receives the ball. I understand who it happened, as Hassli was not in a particularly dangerous position, but anytime you have the striker in the box you need to take space away from them.

I think his positioning was alright - 99 MLS players out of 100 would have chested that ball down first, and Henry would have been able to neutralize him. I think that was just a "shit happens" goal, and all you can do is tip your hat to Hassli.

- Scott

[Dv23]

Just watched the game. Very happy with the result, although a 1-0 win would have been sweet. Vancouver is a good team, but we seemed to be the better, especially in the second half. Can't fault anybody for that equalizer, it was glorious. I predicted 2-1, but I am more than happy with being wrong this time.

[Oldtimer]

I think his positioning was alright - 99 MLS players out of 100 would have chested that ball down first, and Henry would have been able to neutralize him. I think that was just a "shit happens" goal, and all you can do is tip your hat to Hassli.

- Scott

Agreed. You see Henry running, he wasn't that far away. If Hassli had chested it, or even done a two touch, no way he would have gotten that shot off. It was an excellent cross doubled with an amazing, maybe even lucky, finish. I doubt Hassli would get that 19 times out of 20.

[starter]

The goal was not a horrible mistake, but Morgan was marking out of position, and Henry was playing to far off of Hassli, allowing him to receive the ball with space to shoot. Henry had a great game again, but in that situation he needs to mark the strikers closer, and put the body on him before he receives the ball. I understand who it happened, as Hassli was not in a particularly dangerous position, but anytime you have the striker in the box you need to take space away from them.
Agree, a bit too much space for the attacker, just to show an intention to come out and challenge Hassli would probably be enough to prevent a good shot, hopefully we will learn from this.

Overall good flow from the Reds, enjoyable to watch, plus this time we got a result to go with it!

[RC8]

Agreed. You see Henry running, he wasn't that far away. If Hassli had chested it, or even done a two touch, no way he would have gotten that shot off. It was an excellent cross doubled with an amazing, maybe even lucky, finish. I doubt Hassli would get that 19 times out of 20.

Precisely. Nothing to complain about.

[T-boy]

Precisely. Nothing to complain about.

19 out of 20 times that ball would still be rising through Earth's atmosphere! There's no way Hassli could hit that ball so perfectly every time! It was a great shot, but Hassli isn't Messi! (even Messi would probably only get that 4 times out of 20, if that!).

[ag futbol]

I can't fault henry too much on that goal. He left him a bit of space but its not like he was out to lunch. Just a case of great attacking winning out.

With morgan's crosses, I have to say no points awarded for robotic whifs into the box without a target. Passes work when there are people on the end of them. I know u have to probe space at times but you need to feel out the game and know when to do things. Guys should be runnint harder off the ball as well though.

Think henry is going to be a beast. He was battling hassli the entire time and to be frank it looked like one of the most physical strikers in the league was being man handled at times by a 19 year old

[reggie]

say what you want guys,yes it was a 1 in a millon shot,the fact that he was so wide open in the last minute of the game is rediculous, brutal marking.
should have had a win.

[bigredone]

I know this will piss some off, but I feel it needs to be added. WE DID WIN ~ 1 AWAY GOAL VS 1 HOME GOAL. VICTORY FOREVER!!!!!! DEFEAT NEVER!!!!!!..........................


............................


..............................


......................after today.

[ryan]

I know this will piss some off, but I feel it needs to be added. WE DID WIN ~ 1 AWAY GOAL VS 1 HOME GOAL. VICTORY FOREVER!!!!!! DEFEAT NEVER!!!!!!

Aye it's a good way to look at it.

0-0 ensures victory, 1-1 means extra time, not a loss, had it been 0-0 like the semi.

[bigredone]

The rumble from the stands will stir up the nerves of the browncraps that my tone will continue to ring true.

I have spoken so much shit today that I hope to not be setting myself up!!!!!!

[MisterMacphisto]

Credit where credit is due... what an effing goal....


http://youtu.be/u9vRpkYf-uE

[denime]

say what you want guys,yes it was a 1 in a millon shot,the fact that he was so wide open in the last minute of the game is rediculous, brutal marking.:facepalm:
should have had a win.

How about giving some credit to Hasli for his amazing goal instead of blaming our players for something that was out of their power to stop it and in this case they did what was excepted from them to do it!


The team defends together. When pressure is applied, the entire team must step together to stay compact.Space can not exist between lines on the field, or between pressuring players and the rest of the team. The team must also shift across the field together as the ball moves. In general, the team must move as one unified block whenever the ball moves. This puts high demands on work rate and coordination.

Defending in a 4:3:3 should be done primarily with zonal defending. In a zonal system, players are not solely responsible for marking an individual opponent but instead are responsible for filling areas of space and
marking any opponents in those spaces. Zonal defending allows the team to keep a better defensive shape, and reduces some of the physical demands of man-marking.

Ask any coach who has knowledge about 4-3-3 system,and you will hear the same.

Henry was properly positioned,YOU CAN"T LEAVE the middle of the penalty box open.
http://i46.tinypic.com/b5p0ls.jpg


ANY other move from Hasli, and Henry would have him covered because he was there.

http://i49.tinypic.com/2n8vo9h.jpg


On the other hand Soolsma should have scored 5 minutes earlier and we would be 2-0 up,game over.

[trane]

^ Acctually when I look at it again, it was a big mistake Hessli came deep into the box, were Morgan was supposed to be, and Henry was too far off.


How, about being realistic about our players. Hessli was smart to ghost into space that was available, and was skilled in finishing the shot. But he shuold have been marked and he was not. That is the truth of the matter.


There was no one playing the right back position, and the Centerback (henry was way in side) Hessli sloted in behind the CB, who was looking the other way, following the play, but taking his eye of their BIGGEST striker, leaving him room to receive the ball and take a shot.

That is a mistake, and you can go on and on about excuses, how 90 % of times, this and 90% of times that. But that was a mistake, and yesterday, I thought it was a smaller mistake, but now that I watch it again, it is clear that it is a much bigger mistake.

Now Henry and Morgan, are terrific young players in my mind, and will be great, but that was clearly a defensice mistake on our part that allowed that shot.

4-3-3 Zonal defending, well the LB zone was empty.
You shuold sit at the center of the box, but there shuold not be a huge space beside you, and you shuold be aware of were the CF is, and once he starts moving into the box you shuold adjust and as the ball is comming to him you should close him down.

I blame it more on nobody being the LB spot, but Henry should have played it better. Very few goals in football are made without a defensive mistake. That is just the nature of the game.

[denime]

^ Acctually when I look at it again, it was a big mistake Hessli came deep into the box, were Morgan was supposed to be, and Henry was too far off.


How, about being realistic about our players. Hessli was smart to ghost into space that was available, and was skilled in finishing the shot. But he shuold have been marked and he was not. That is the truth of the matter.

If it was mistake than you should ask yourself where was the 4th defender,LB Morgan.Henry did what he should do as CB in 4-3-3 zonal defense,say what you want bit that was not Henry's mistake.

[ryan]

^ Acctually when I look at it again, it was a big mistake Hessli came deep into the box, were Morgan was supposed to be, and Henry was too far off.


How, about being realistic about our players. Hessli was smart to ghost into space that was available, and was skilled in finishing the shot. But he shuold have been marked and he was not. That is the truth of the matter.


There was no one playing the right back position, and the Centerback (henry was way in side) Hessli sloted in behind the CB, who was looking the other way, following the play, but taking his eye of their BIGGEST striker, leaving him room to receive the ball and take a shot.

That is a mistake, and you can go on and on about excuses, how 90 % of times, this and 90% of times that. But that was a mistake, and yesterday, I thought it was a smaller mistake, but now that I watch it again, it is clear that it is a much bigger mistake.

Now Henry and Morgan, are terrific young players in my mind, and will be great, but that was clearly a defensice mistake on our part that allowed that shot.

4-3-3 Zonal defending, well the LB zone was empty.
You shuold sit at the center of the box, but there shuold not be a huge space beside you, and you shuold be aware of were the CF is, and once he starts moving into the box you shuold adjust and as the ball is comming to him you should close him down.

I blame it more on nobody being the LB spot, but Henry should have played it better. Very few goals in football are made without a defensive mistake. That is just the nature of the game.


You shuold sit at the center of the box, but there shuold not be a huge space beside you,

Had to highlight this hilarious comment. So be in the center of the pitch but magically be covering the entire half .....ALL AT THE SAME TIME!




Anyways. So you wished Henry was playing outside, so....Hassli could have "ghosted" inside into the penalty spot instead? Perhaps making his attempt on goal easier than what was a ferociously difficult volley? Cause you know, he doesn't like to float inside into space game in and game out naturally, or that TFC defenders probably haven't seem the film on that either right?



All aboard the hate trane...

[trane]

Denime,

I addressed that already. I blame Morgan more or if Morgan had picked someone up, the person who should have sloted in at the LB spot in that situation.

Henry shuold be at the center of the box, to be able to guard the box. Hessli came deep in the box before Henry was aware he was there, and he was only aware because the cross came Hessli's way. I understand how it happened, but as a CB you need to keep an eye on all the play developing infront of you to defend that central space.

[trane]

Had to highlight this hilarious comment. So be in the center of the pitch but magically be covering the entire half .....ALL AT THE SAME TIME!




Anyways. So you wished Henry was playing outside, so....Hassli could have "ghosted" inside into the penalty spot instead? Perhaps making his attempt on goal easier than what was a ferociously difficult volley? Cause you know, he doesn't like to float inside into space game in and game out naturally, or that TFC defenders probably haven't seem the film on that either right?



All aboard the hate trane...


What the hell are you talking about son??? Who the hell is saying that Henry should have played outside???
Are you for real??? it is not about hate it is about observation. I am not blaming Henry for the goal. I am saying that the mistake starts with morgan, who has left the space besides him, and Henry should have been aware that hessli was moving into the space. Hence picking him up earlier. Not that Henry should have moved to play LB.

[trane]

This place is insane. Observations and comments about a play, mean that I hate Henry? What a fucking joke.



You are right. THere was no issue on the play. We should always play without someone at LB, and without our CB marking the leading striker deep in our box. That is how the game should be played.


Ryan, what is hillerious is how the fuck you seem to misconstrue every fucking comment that goes against your point of view. Not much of a starting point for a discussion.

[Walms]

It was a great game for our defense, Hall extreamly impressed me, Henry was in position for almost every block, and Morgan showed he can attack and still play back effectively!

We could of easily put this one to bed! And next Wensday It's our trophy and it's staying in our house!!!!!

[trane]

Credit where credit is due... what an effing goal....


http://youtu.be/u9vRpkYf-uE

If you look at the video around 44 seconds, you will see Morgan is playing just up the field and to the right of Henry. Henry is staring at the ball comming to the player who will cross it, while Hassli is sneaking behind him. I am sorry but this shows the mistake as I said it. Morgan left the space Henry lost Hassli, leaving him unmarked in the box.


DOes this mean I hate TFC??? Does this mean I think Morgan and Henry should be shipped out??? Does this mean that I think they shat the bed???? No they are young players who had a good game overall and are our future, but on that play they erred. To err is human.

[Fort York Redcoat]

All aboard the hate trane...


What the hell are you talking about son??? Who the hell is saying that Henry should have played outside???
Are you for real??? it is not about hate it is about observation. I am not blaming Henry for the goal. I am saying that the mistake starts with morgan, who has left the space besides him, and Henry should have been aware that hessli was moving into the space. Hence picking him up earlier. Not that Henry should have moved to play LB.


This place is insane. Observations and comments about a play, mean that I hate Henry? What a fucking joke.



You are right. THere was no issue on the play. We should always play without someone at LB, and without our CB marking the leading striker deep in our box. That is how the game should be played.


Ryan, what is hillerious is how the fuck you seem to misconstrue every fucking comment that goes against your point of view. Not much of a starting point for a discussion.

Take a breath both of you, please.

trane is justified in giving his opinion on where the mistake could've been at least seen ahead of time between Henry and Morgan.

trane your first response was sufficient, the last was no better than ryans callout. Like you've said above let's try discussion over kneejerk personal judgements please or infractions will be doled out.

[trane]

^ I agree, about my second post. But it gets frustrating.

[69Chevy396]

Take a breath both of you, please.

trane is justified in giving his opinion on where the mistake could've been at least seen ahead of time between Henry and Morgan.

trane your first response was sufficient, the last was no better than ryans callout. Like you've said above let's try discussion over kneejerk personal judgements please or infractions will be doled out.

That was a tremendous goal. When Dichio scored a similar goal (I believe it was during the last game of the season several years back), we knew it was something special, all goals are the result of a mistake somewhere, lets give this player credit, after all MLS is considered a third rate league so celebrating first rate achievements is good for everybody.

[trane]

^ Hassli did great. We did not on that play. We had a solid game. Hassli for my money is one of my favourite strikers in the MLS.

I am sorry, I did not want to make a big issue of it, I did not expect the reaction to the comment, I understand how it happens, at full speed, Morgan marks his player tight and follows him across, nobody takes up his position, and Henry is following the play, but fails to pick up the striker, who ghost into the open space. It happens. I do not think it is the end of the world. But the more we cut down these mistakes the further we go.

[bigredone]

Your guys knowledge and passion of the game deserves a tip of the hat. You can learn more about the sport on here than most places. It is important to note that all comments, reactions, anger and joy displayed on here is all for one cause and one purpose, TFC Glory!:scarf:

[Oldtimer]

^ Hassli did great. We did not on that play. We had a solid game. Hassli for my money is one of my favourite strikers in the MLS.

I am sorry, I did not want to make a big issue of it, I did not expect the reaction to the comment, I understand how it happens, at full speed, Morgan marks his player tight and follows him across, nobody takes up his position, and Henry is following the play, but fails to pick up the striker, who ghost into the open space. It happens. I do not think it is the end of the world. But the more we cut down these mistakes the further we go.

You can only call it a "mistake" in the context of a better league, like Serie A. In MLS, very few players could do what Hassli did without a second touch, and the marking would have been sufficient. I'm not disagreeing with what you are saying about positioning in a better league, I'm just saying that in MLS, close marking a guy as far out as Hassli normally would not be a good idea, as 99% of the time, the guy on the wing will either (1) play it directly in front of the net, (2) fail to make the pass, or (3) the striker will chest it down or take two touches. It's wise to plan strategy around the 99% probability, not the 1% probability. How many goals like Hassli's have we seen in MLS this year (or even ever)? Yet in Europe, you see those kinds of goals much more commonly.

This kind of marking is actually pretty common in MLS. For example, you'd often see, say Soolsma out on the wing receive a pass with a defender giving about the same space to him that Henry gave to Hassli, but before he could get a shot away, there is already a defender or two on him.

[BHTC Mike]

^ I agree, about my second post. But it gets frustrating.
You shouldn't have to apologize when someone insults you for being right.


You can only call it a "mistake" in the context of a better league, like Serie A.
No, it was a mistake in my mens league. Your 99%/1% dichotomy is nonsense.

Zonal marking or not 100% of the time you shouldn't give attackers that much space in the penalty area. To date, in the history of soccer, space has still never scored a goal.

There's a lot of other ways that play could have ended in a goal that don't involve a wonder strike. Henry is in no position to challenge for a header if Rochat puts the ball in higher towards the back post. If Hassli does take a good first touch Henry's need to close the large amount of space between him and Hassli at speed would have given Hassli the opportunity to check back inside him onto his left foot and curl a shot to the back post. Finally, Hassli could have used his first touch to take himself away from Henry shielding him off with his plant foot in the process and hitting a hard low right footed shot. It'd be from a slightly wider angle but that's probably the more high percentage play in that situation. Just because Hassli went with the lower percentage play but executed it spectacularly doesn't mean it couldn't have been defended better. Again: you don't give that much space to attackers in your own penalty box. Cutting out a high ball into your own box is the food and drink of a centreback who reads the game well.

And trane's not wrong about the team's shape either. There's all sorts of problems that lead to that goal and left Henry without a man up situation at the back. Don't be blinded by the quality of the finish.

[jloome]

You shouldn't have to apologize when someone insults you for being right.


No, it was a mistake in my mens league. Your 99%/1% dichotomy is nonsense.

Zonal marking or not 100% of the time you shouldn't give attackers that much space in the penalty area. To date, in the history of soccer, space has still never scored a goal.

There's a lot of other ways that play could have ended in a goal that don't involve a wonder strike. Henry is in no position to challenge for a header if Rochat puts the ball in higher towards the back post. If Hassli does take a good first touch Henry's need to close the large amount of space between him and Hassli at speed would have given Hassli the opportunity to check back inside him onto his left foot and curl a shot to the back post. Finally, Hassli could have used his first touch to take himself away from Henry shielding him off with his plant foot in the process and hitting a hard low right footed shot. It'd be from a slightly wider angle but that's probably the more high percentage play in that situation. Just because Hassli went with the lower percentage play but executed it spectacularly doesn't mean it couldn't have been defended better. Again: you don't give that much space to attackers in your own penalty box. Cutting out a high ball into your own box is the food and drink of a centreback who reads the game well.

And trane's not wrong about the team's shape either. There's all sorts of problems that lead to that goal and left Henry without a man up situation at the back. Don't be blinded by the quality of the finish.

It wasn't a mistake of shape.

It's not blind to give Henry a break on this, really, because he's 19 -- but also because he didn't give Hassli too much space, he was suckered by Hassli drifting centrally, as he was marking him tight. Then Hassli pulled off his back shoulder towards the back post -- and it was a set play, so the cross was timed with the move and Henry had almost no time to adjust. 9/10 the striker tries to bring that down and, if you watch the replay, he still only got the shot off by a step.

The commentators even said Hassli had been practicing it the day before the game with a surprisingly high success quotient.

[BHTC Mike]

http://youtu.be/u9vRpkYf-uE

It wasn't a mistake of shape.
The team's shape is all at sea after De Guzman's half tackle. The play's behind him at that point and Rochat's on an unobstructed run towards the box. That pulls Hall in from RB which gave Rochat the option of going back to his left to a, by that point, completely unmarked player. Meanwhile a good run from what looks like Le Toux has pulled Morgan too central and left a ton of space for Hassli to drift into to the left of Henry. Rochat sees Hassli in space and instead of leading Le Toux - which Henry had moved more central to prevent - picks him out with a good diagonal ball. There was danger from any of three passes Rochat could have picked and we only had men in position to defend one of them. To me that sounds like a team who acted like the game was over and switched off at a vital moment. Yes, it's good runs, a good ball, and a ridiculous finish; Vancouver executely nearly perfectly from the restart. It's not the sort of calamitous defending we're used to where we feel like we've practically scored for them. But it's not some indefensible supergoal either.

And, contrary to Oldtimer's assertion, I bet if you give Hassli that chance 10 times, with that much space, he keeps it on net half the time and scores two or three times. He might never hit it quite that sweetly and manage to slice it upper near corner with so much velocity that the keeper just watches but executing a shot like that and keeping it on target isn't outside the range of his capabilities. These guys aren't scrubs. They're pro footballers who, like you acknowledge, train at this stuff every day. Hell, Chad Barrett once hit a beautiful turning volley at BMO Field and he's not half the talent Hassli is.


It's not blind to give Henry a break on this, really, because he's 19
It's blind to suggest that goal was indefensible. The strike was unstoppable but the goal could have been prevented.

And who's not giving Henry a break? He's a kid doing a job, where he should just be an understudy at this point, better than most of the other senior pros we've tried there. Doesn't mean that he couldn't have done better on that play and won't expect to in the future. Doesn't mean his (more senior) team mates should have left him in that position without a man up in defense, if not more, with a 1-0 lead away in injury time in the first place.

[Wingback6]

Not sure if Morgan was man marking someon there, Le Toux, but Henry didn't seem put out by Morgan moving. Henry was too far off of Hassli, and didn't give the shot enough respect. His close down seemed a bit weak. Maybe he was tired. I'm going to chalk this one up to inexperience on his part. Which, while not fine, is bearable, he's what 19-20 now?? Bottom line as a defender, assume the worst. Henry played like he believed nothing could come from that cross and he got burned as a result. Tough break for a young talented player, I'm sure he'll learn from it. Sucks 'cause from what I hear he had a great game (only caught the last 20 myself) Is it just me, or has the D been better since Cann came back from injury? He always seemed to be a bit of a boss back there to me.

[Pookie]

Add up the career minutes of either Morgan or Henry, or combine them if you like and then compare them to the experience of Hassli. Mistakes, or simply getting beat, are going to happen when you have an inexperienced roster. It's not rocket science. If you want to see fewer mistakes or players getting beat, demand more experienced and/or the best players available for each position. With the MLS's youngest average starting roster, we have neither.

That said, a mistake or getting beat doesn't take away from the solid effort and positive result from the game.

[Oldtimer]

I see what you guys are saying about Morgan, he was out of position, and that did create space where there shouldn't have been. In many cases that wouldn't have conceded a goal, but in this case it did. I still don't fault Henry, he was positioned as well as he could have been given the positioning of the rest of defense.

BHTC Mike, you made a good point about Rochat's run, his ability to make that cross was crucial. The goal was as much about Rochat as it was about Hassli.

I've seen a lot of MLS games where those kind of errors didn't result in a goal. Unfortunately, in this case it did. The defense wasn't shambolic, but it wasn't perfect.



That said, a mistake or getting beat doesn't take away from the solid effort and positive result from the game.

That's how I feel. the defense is improving.

[__wowza]

I see what you guys are saying about Morgan, he was out of position, and that did create space where there shouldn't have been. In many cases that wouldn't have conceded a goal, but in this case it did. I still don't fault Henry, he was positioned as well as he could have been given the positioning of the rest of defense.

That's how I feel. the defense is improving.

i think he was giving him so much space because he was expecting hassli to play it off the chest and boot it low. even with the volley, if you were him and had to choose, there was a 90% chance he was going far post.

[trane]

I see what you guys are saying about Morgan, he was out of position, and that did create space where there shouldn't have been. In many cases that wouldn't have conceded a goal, but in this case it did. I still don't fault Henry, he was positioned as well as he could have been given the positioning of the rest of defense.

BHTC Mike, you made a good point about Rochat's run, his ability to make that cross was crucial. The goal was as much about Rochat as it was about Hassli.

I've seen a lot of MLS games where those kind of errors didn't result in a goal. Unfortunately, in this case it did. The defense wasn't shambolic, but it wasn't perfect.



That's how I feel. the defense is improving.

Obviously I agree with BHTC Mike, but I love both Morgan and Henry, and I believe that they have done great and will only improve. So much of being a good defender is mental, and you never stop learning.

[BayernTFC]

With morgan's crosses, I have to say no points awarded for robotic whifs into the box without a target. Passes work when there are people on the end of them. I know u have to probe space at times but you need to feel out the game and know when to do things. Guys should be runnint harder off the ball as well though.
This is a good point, and I have certainly noticed Morgan do what you have described. There have been times in other games where Morgan has done a good job of drawing the defender closer to him into the corner only to waste the opportunity by automatically sending a cross into the box. Morgan needs to improve upon recognizing his available options. Sometimes Morgan has failed to observe a teammate who moved into the area just vacated by Morgan and the player marking him. Sometimes you have to lead a teammate into the space created with a pass. Such awareness is a step up in skill level and it's obvious that Morgan will have to build towards gaining it. All that being said, some of Morgan's crosses in previous matches were particularly poor. Erratic or errant balls going out of touch or directly to the opposition. There was some definite improvement in the trajectory of Morgan's crosses in the game against VWFC.

[lobo]

The team's shape is all at sea after De Guzman's half tackle. The play's behind him at that point and Rochat's on an unobstructed run towards the box. That pulls Hall in from RB which gave Rochat the option of going back to his left to a, by that point, completely unmarked player. Meanwhile a good run from what looks like Le Toux has pulled Morgan too central and left a ton of space for Hassli to drift into to the left of Henry. Rochat sees Hassli in space and instead of leading Le Toux - which Henry had moved more central to prevent - picks him out with a good diagonal ball. There was danger from any of three passes Rochat could have picked and we only had men in position to defend one of them. To me that sounds like a team who acted like the game was over and switched off at a vital moment. Yes, it's good runs, a good ball, and a ridiculous finish; Vancouver executely nearly perfectly from the restart. It's not the sort of calamitous defending we're used to where we feel like we've practically scored for them. But it's not some indefensible supergoal either.

And, contrary to Oldtimer's assertion, I bet if you give Hassli that chance 10 times, with that much space, he keeps it on net half the time and scores two or three times. He might never hit it quite that sweetly and manage to slice it upper near corner with so much velocity that the keeper just watches but executing a shot like that and keeping it on target isn't outside the range of his capabilities. These guys aren't scrubs. They're pro footballers who, like you acknowledge, train at this stuff every day. Hell, Chad Barrett once hit a beautiful turning volley at BMO Field and he's not half the talent Hassli is.

It's blind to suggest that goal was indefensible. The strike was unstoppable but the goal could have been prevented.

And who's not giving Henry a break? He's a kid doing a job, where he should just be an understudy at this point, better than most of the other senior pros we've tried there. Doesn't mean that he couldn't have done better on that play and won't expect to in the future. Doesn't mean his (more senior) team mates should have left him in that position without a man up in defense, if not more, with a 1-0 lead away in injury time in the first place.

good commentary mike, and trane too ... we did switch off in one sense or another in the last couple minutes of that game ... how many fouls did we commit in the last few minutes? in our defensive third? the caps took that last one quickly, rochat had lots of room and options, and we had (if i recall correctly) only 5 or 6 players behind the ball at that time ... recipe for disaster ... and we've seen this too many times before in injury time, it's like we collectively don't have the mental toughness to finish 90+ minutes.

yes hassli's volley was amazing, but it really could have been prevented, we just looked tired, half the team not in a position to defend, waiting for the whistle

[trane]

^ I agree that this was an example of us letting our guard down late.


I was going to mention it but I did not want to be too negative after a solid defensive game.

[DangerRed]

Only now is my jaw back off the floor from that Hassli goal. Great to get 1-1 draw there, but that finish was incredible. I'm partial to sweet volleys, but even so this was the best goal I've seen this side of the pond.

[Yohan]

Only now is my jaw back off the floor from that Hassli goal. Great to get 1-1 draw there, but that finish was incredible. I'm partial to sweet volleys, but even so this was the best goal I've seen this side of the pond.
Hassli's goal vs Seattle was better IMO.

[DangerRed]

Hassli's goal vs Seattle was better IMO.

Assuing you're talking about last June, yeah, no question that was a peach too, but soooooo lucky. I tough the way he finished this week was so unstoppable more than anything.

[Chris Wren]

We did good to get the away goal, but giving up the late goal was a shame. A great strike, but Hassli was clearly way too open. These mistakes are habitual with TFC, and inexperienced or not Henry is a pro with a job to do. He had a great game until that point, unfortunately the WHOLE game counts. Looking forward to Wednesday.