TFC make staff changes

[razor787]

My guess is that this has something to do with his uncontrollable temper. Coming off the Montreal explosion, it could be TFC making sure he doesn't do anything to cost the team, just because of a poor temper.

Congrats to Brennan though. Will be nice seeing him at the sidelines.

http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2012/05/reds-make-front-office-changes

[Nodoubtguy]

De Klerk now Technical Manager, Jimmy B now Assistant Coach.

https://twitter.com/#!/JohnMolinaro/status/202085096671559681

[MartinUtd]

Didn't you see the headline?


Bob de Klerk promoted to technical manager

Really though, this is probably for the best. I can't speak to his effectiveness in training, but we sure could use some help in the scouting department.

[Wooster_TFC]

http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2012/05/reds-make-front-office-changes

The most interesting part for me:

"Additionally, Director of Player Development Paul Mariner will take a more active role on the pitch, occasionally coaching the team’s strikers, in addition to his regular responsibilities."

[Wooster_TFC]

Already here (with a much better thread title): http://redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?31785-TFC-make-staff-changes

[CSO_BBTB]

My guess is that this has something to do with his uncontrollable temper. Coming off the Montreal explosion, it could be TFC making sure he doesn't do anything to cost the team, just because of a poor temper.

Congrats to Brennan though. Will be nice seeing him at the sidelines.

http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2012/05/reds-make-front-office-changes

Another interpretation might be that they want to keep De Klerk for the Academy side of things after Winter gets shown the door due to the lack of results so far this season (barring a major turnaround) and Brennan is being eased in for a role as caretaker.

[Canary10]

Oh thank god. Now with the whole coaching this sorted out, TFC can get on with winning games.

[TFCBarrie]

I see de Klerk's new role as a promotion and not a demotion. His new role is much more important to the Organization than being an assistant, especially the "
including advance and international scouting" part of it.

[Redpunkfiddle]

Can't wait for those who understand all this management structure gobledegook to say what this really means.

Is Brennan a better coach than Dichio? One of them actually wanted to coach , as opposed to being in front office management..

[Yohan]

I dunno what to make of Jimmy B now assistant.
-Why take away Winter's chosen right hand guy, and replace it with MLSE's favoured son?
-Does it now mean MLS pragmatic side has won?
-Is now Winter just a figure head?

[CSO_BBTB]

http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2012/05/reds-make-front-office-changes

The most interesting part for me:

"Additionally, Director of Player Development Paul Mariner will take a more active role on the pitch, occasionally coaching the team’s strikers, in addition to his regular responsibilities."

Points to Winter being a dead man walking basically.

[Yohan]

I see de Klerk's new role as a promotion and not a demotion. His new role is much more important to the Organization than being an assistant, especially the "
including advance and international scouting" part of it.


could also be just a face saving gesture

[dupont]

Another interpretation might be that they want to keep De Klerk for the Academy side of things after Winter gets shown the door due to the lack of results so far this season (barring a major turnaround) and Brennan is being eased in for a role as caretaker.

This seems like a very possible scenario.

[Yohan]

I don't want to read too much into this, but without the full story, it's going to be a lot of speculations. I'd like to see JMo or other guys dig some dirt on reasons why this happened

[Greatest Ripoff]

SO who is going to coach the u17s?

[Auzzy]

Very strange, very interesting. AFAIK, as previous "director of player development" didn't Mariner used to be in charge of scouting at least at the top level? So now BDK gets control over scouting, but less on-field duties. Mariner seemingly loses some scouting control, but more on-field duties.

How much of this did Winter want; how much was he pushed?

[Joe Kool]

Maybe this is some more stuff resulting of the last "open" meeting with the players and the staff. Trying to fix what is broke. Hopefully it works out for the team and not just political positioning for other reasons. I will miss BDK blowing up on the sidelines though. Was still waiting for the big orange Gatorade container (if they have one) to get thrown on the field one day. Guess it will never happen now.

[Wooster_TFC]

I don't know how this points to Winter being a dead man walking. It seems more of a statement to the fact that they felt their international scouting sucked, and that the coaches themselves needed more training. So, DeKlerk moves to training the trainers, and international scouting.

That said, it wouldn't surprise me if his short temper on the field had something to do with this.

[Canary10]

Well, we are 0-8, major changes needed to be made.:rolleyes:

[RPB_RED_NATION_RPB]

Points to Winter being a dead man walking basically.

we could see Dichio by year end...;)

[T-boy]

This is fascinating actually.

De Klerk has basically been the main man in terms of tactics and enforcing Winter's style on the first team. Now De Klerk isn't going to be doing this AT ALL it seems, which is interesting.

Jimmy B seems a far more level headed guy compared to De Klerk. De Klerk always appeared to run the touchline with fear rather than subtlety. Maybe Brennan will bring a more calm approach to the sidelines?

Although the media release is saying that De Klerk is being "promoted" - I don't see it that way at all. Basically, instead of firing the guy (and therefore giving him a pay out of his contract) they are "making" a new roll for him that is less in the spotlight and away from the first team.

What we DON'T know is how much influence De Klerk had on the first team and results up until this point. We all assume that the first team is mainly down to Winter, but it might not be the case? So, this is a positive move in my opinion.

Short of firing Aron Winter, the next best thing TFC could have done, is replace his right hand man. So, I praise TFC for this move.

It will be interesting to see if Brennan has an immediate positive impact on the first team. He always seems to be a popular guy, much moreso with the players that De Klerk has been.

[Richard]

So Jimmy B is going to help train senior players in the 4-3-3? Gotcha, didnt really like the guy training youth to begin with, the guy seems nice but has no pedigree in the style we want to play as a club.

[newb]

I dunno what to make of Jimmy B now assistant.
-Why take away Winter's chosen right hand guy, and replace it with MLSE's favoured son?
-Does it now mean MLS pragmatic side has won?
-Is now Winter just a figure head?

Seeing as we're asking questions let's get really twisty with this and counter proposal that this does not mean that the "MLS Pragmatists" won and is instead the "4-3-3 Purists" are on the ascendancy.

Assume that this is Winter's decision and he has firmed up the management structure by giving his guy more power (a Technical *Manager* position) and has given him (and therefore himself) more direct control over development of various enterprises (academy, scouting).

Purely random speculation - but that's what makes the internet fun :)

[T-boy]

I don't know how this points to Winter being a dead man walking. It seems more of a statement to the fact that they felt their international scouting sucked, and that the coaches themselves needed more training. So, DeKlerk moves to training the trainers, and international scouting.

That said, it wouldn't surprise me if his short temper on the field had something to do with this.

It's basically sending De Klerk out of Toronto for a big portion of his job! Just how much "international scouting" do TFC do? Usually football teams rely on part time scouts, especially for international scouting jobs. And its taking De Klerk's influence on the first team completely out of the equation.

I think congratulations are in order for Jimmy B - its a big promotion for him! :)

[T-boy]

So Jimmy B is going to help train senior players in the 4-3-3? Gotcha, didnt really like the guy training youth to begin with, the guy seems nice but has no pedigree in the style we want to play as a club.

If you watched De Klerk and Rongen talk about the tactics and 4-3-3 the other day, you will know that De Klerk is very obviously the expert in Winter's system. so, its a little weird that TFC are taking their expert away from the first team, and replacing him with a guy who knows MUCH less about the system.

[T-boy]

Is the new chant going to be....

"All we want is a team trained by Jimmy B, trained by Jimmy B, Trained by Jimmy B"!

[mastermixer]

This shuffle of the deck does not give me any confidence. Is switching DeClerk with Brennan going to somehow inspire Winter to be a better coach? And how did Dichio get lost in the shuffle? Sounds like MLSE is sticking their fingers in the cake batter again.

[Ultra & Proud]

So Jimmy B is going to help train senior players in the 4-3-3? Gotcha, didnt really like the guy training youth to begin with, the guy seems nice but has no pedigree in the style we want to play as a club.

He seemed to get the U17s to play the 4-3-3 fairly well.

[Canary10]

If you watched De Klerk and Rongen talk about the tactics and 4-3-3 the other day, you will know that De Klerk is very obviously the expert in Winter's system. so, its a little weird that TFC are taking their expert away from the first team, and replacing him with a guy who knows MUCH less about the system.

It was also clear from that that he can't explain it. In English anyway.

Hard to know what to make of this but I can't shake the feeling this is an MLSE cop out designed to not have to make the really hard decision.

[Ultra & Proud]

If you watched De Klerk and Rongen talk about the tactics and 4-3-3 the other day, you will know that De Klerk is very obviously the expert in Winter's system. so, its a little weird that TFC are taking their expert away from the first team, and replacing him with a guy who knows MUCH less about the system.

And how's that worked out so far?

[Whoop]

LOL... I guess someone didn't like my post saying "all this is just shuffling of the deck chairs on the Titanic" as it seems to have disappeared in the move...

[BayernTFC]

I don't know how this points to Winter being a dead man walking. It seems more of a statement to the fact that they felt their international scouting sucked, and that the coaches themselves needed more training. So, DeKlerk moves to training the trainers, and international scouting.

That said, it wouldn't surprise me if his short temper on the field had something to do with this.
It certainly is an interesting development. I lean more towards your line of thinking Wosster_TFC. It's probably a little bit of everything that has been mentioned here and a chance for management to cover all bases depending on what transpires over the next couple of weeks. It may also be an admission that Winter needs help preparing the squad for MLS league play. Perhaps it's an attempt to delegate duties? If TFC win the Canadian Championship and manage another deep run in the CCL, the coach won't have to divide his attention between CCL and MLS. It might just be a way to relieve the pressure on management for the time being, or it could be a unique way to split the responsibilities for a heavy schedule and keep what works well in cup play while addressing deficiencies in league play.

[Whoop]

Jimmy B never struck me as a coach. Don't see how this is going to help really.

Or is this more of a shot from the FO's bow saying "we got our eye on you" to Winter?

[Yagbod]

Hopefully Jimmy can tell them how he 'scored that goal'.

They need to know.

[Ultra & Proud]

Quite clearly this was forced by De Klerk's actions after the Impact match plus his history of freak outs and ejections. Nothing else really.

[BayernTFC]

Hard to know what to make of this but I can't shake the feeling this is an MLSE cop out designed to not have to make the really hard decision.
This is certainly possible. It could be that current management has not been charged with making any drastic changes by the new ownership, so they are preparing for the worst case scenario. I think the ACC final against Vancouver just became that much more important.

[Oldtimer]

I dunno what to make of Jimmy B now assistant.
-Why take away Winter's chosen right hand guy, and replace it with MLSE's favoured son?
-Does it now mean MLS pragmatic side has won?
-Is now Winter just a figure head?

In the murky world of ML$E politics, I read it as the pragmatic side getting more of a say. I also see it as people getting more aligned with their skill set.
BDK will be better at international scouting (which has majorly sucked). He's also dangerous to have at the field level. Danny really wants to work with the kids, so it makes sense to give Jimmy B. the promotion.
Mariner adding coaching is acknowledgement that Winter needs help. I don't read it as Winter being replaced... yet. If the changes work, he'll be staying. Think of how JFJ had people brought in to help him learn how to be a GM. This is similar for Winter. If it doesn't work, like JFJ he'll eventually be turfed. Think longer term than this season, though, that's what this indicates to me.

[Roogsy]

Allow me to remind everyone of Anselmi's famous promise of getting the "best front office in MLS".

18 months later and this is what they have come up with.

I have no words.

[Canary10]

^ I tend to agree. This sounds like BS.

[andyc]

This move definitely isolates Winter. Bring in Jimmy for "support" and get Mariner on the training field. Remove his 2nd in command.

Sounds like double secret probation to me...

[Oldtimer]

Allow me to remind everyone of Anselmi's famous promise of getting the "best front office in MLS".

18 months later and this is what they have come up with.

I have no words.

Here's the ML$E printing press all ready for Anselmi's promises:

http://shanghaiist.com/attachments/shang_kenneth/Toilet-Paper.jpg

[BayernTFC]

Think longer term than this season, though, that's what this indicates to me.
I tend to agree. That's why I think the most intriguing part of this shift is the apparent switch of roles between De Klerk and Mariner:


In this new role de Klerk will be responsible for Toronto FC’s technical program, including advance and international scouting, as well as serving as the technical conduit between the First Team and Academy program. He will also assist players transitioning from the Academy into the First Team and support the education of Toronto FC coaches at all levels.
http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2012/05/reds-make-front-office-changes

I think the quote above is an indication of an extension of the philosophy of Winter's management team. Finding talent and ensuring the proper training and successful transition of Academy players to a higher level is very important. It's a big responsibility. Conversely, Mariner will now be taking more responsibility for performances in league play. He'll have to prove how valuable his MLS experience is in the area where TFC has had the least success.

[T-boy]

Here's the ML$E printing press all ready for Anselmi's promises:

http://shanghaiist.com/attachments/shang_kenneth/Toilet-Paper.jpg

I wouldn't too quick to flush these changes down the toilet, personally.

A lot of fans wanted change - and this is a start. It's definitely better than doing nothing. I can praise Anselmi for that.

What NONE of us know is how much influence De Klerk had on the first team, and hence on the recults so far this season. We are assuming that everything is Winter's doing - but it might not be the case. De Klerk might have had much more influence than we think. So, removing him from first team duty could make a big difference.

Look at how much Chelsea changed after Ray Wilkins was removed from his position. An assistant head coach CAN have a massive influence on the first team.

[DangerRed]

And as the Titanic sank ever so slowly into the icy waters, the chairs were shuffled about, for no discernible purpose other than the sake of change.

These are still the same people running the same team. Nothing has changed.

[ag futbol]

I'm not sure what this is supposed to accomplish, it strikes me as nothing more than odd.

Nothing about BDK suggests to me that we're going to have any more luck in the scouting department. They should quit fucking around and actually hire someone with a south American network we can utilize. It's incredibly obvious that's what we need.

[jabbronies]

Something is going to happen. They are lining everything up for a change. These types of changes don't happen mid season for the sake of happening or to get people in a position where they can use their skill sets more effectively.

I think Winter has 1 more loss left on his term here and I don't think the team thinks it's avoidable.
I just wonder who is coming in to take over with Jimmy B and Paul Mariner as First team assistants.

I like BDK - I hope he stays with the organization in the long run. He is very smart soccer guy and I think he'll be good for the academy. He's a bit of hard ass, but I think that younger kids will be able to learn a lot from him and gain the discipline needed to play on a first team.

[spark]

Allow me to remind everyone of Anselmi's famous promise of getting the "best front office in MLS".

18 months later and this is what they have come up with.

I have no words.

Well I also remember him at the first townhall meeting going around with his six-shooter telling everyone "we're going to f cking fix this!!"

In fairness he didn't say when!

[Oldtimer]

What NONE of us know is how much influence De Klerk had on the first team, and hence on the recults so far this season. We are assuming that everything is Winter's doing - but it might not be the case. De Klerk might have had much more influence than we think. So, removing him from first team duty could make a big difference.


That's a good point, one I can agree with, (although Winter is responsible for BDK being on staff). Looking at his temper, he couldn't have been a pleasant guy for the First Team players to be working with.

[T-boy]

And as the Titanic sank ever so slowly into the icy waters, the chairs were shuffled about, for no discernible purpose other than the sake of change.

These are still the same people running the same team. Nothing has changed.

I think the changes deserve SOME credit, don't they?

I'm no fan of Aron Winter, but we need to see how changing assistant coach makes a difference - and it squit possible it could make a BIG difference. If De Klerk wasn't respected at all by the players, and now we have Brennan, who by all accounts IS popular with the players - it could make a huge impact on how the players react to management.

[Canary10]

"That's a good point, one I can agree with, (although Winter is responsible for BDK being on staff). Looking at his temper, he couldn't have been a pleasant guy for the First Team players to be working with."

^ Also seemed that when he was fired up, the team was fired up though.

[T-boy]

Something is going to happen. They are lining everything up for a change. These types of changes don't happen mid season for the sake of happening or to get people in a position where they can use their skill sets more effectively.

I think Winter has 1 more loss left on his term here and I don't think the team thinks it's avoidable.
I just wonder who is coming in to take over with Jimmy B and Paul Mariner as First team assistants.

I like BDK - I hope he stays with the organization in the long run. He is very smart soccer guy and I think he'll be good for the academy. He's a bit of hard ass, but I think that younger kids will be able to learn a lot from him and gain the discipline needed to play on a first team.

Or he will scare the sh!t out of them!

[Oldtimer]

Something is going to happen. They are lining everything up for a change. These types of changes don't happen mid season for the sake of happening or to get people in a position where they can use their skill sets more effectively.



If they do go for a change, it looks like Mariner as coach with Jimmy B. as assistant. BDK keeping the academy Dutch-flavoured.

0-8 is why they brought this in. I won't be writing Winter's obituary yet. Anselmi's not a guy to rush things.

Could be that when (if?) Vancouver knocks TFC out of CCL contention, that will force Tom's hand, though.

[Beach_Red]

It was also clear from that that he can't explain it. In English anyway.

Hard to know what to make of this but I can't shake the feeling this is an MLSE cop out designed to not have to make the really hard decision.

If by "make hard decisions," you mean, "spend any money," then I think you're right. The rest of this year may very well be shuffling the deck to try and win some league games. But as long as these guys are inder contract it's unlikely they'll be spending any more money on new staff.

[T-boy]

"That's a good point, one I can agree with, (although Winter is responsible for BDK being on staff). Looking at his temper, he couldn't have been a pleasant guy for the First Team players to be working with."

^ Also seemed that when he was fired up, the team was fired up though.

I'm not sure actually. It seemed to be that when the team was fired up, they fired up De Klerk. It's not necessarily the other way around.

[Canary10]

So now if it continues, Mariner is fully implicated in it, and possibly Brennan as well. If I were Brennan, I'd want to be making damn sure I'm not being set up for something.

This whole thing smells. They're putting off the hard decision by trying to say they've done something. Better to rip the band-aid right off.

[Canary10]

I'm not sure actually. It seemed to be that when the team was fired up, they fired up De Klerk. It's not necessarily the other way around.

Yeah maybe. If only BDK knew this was coming. I'm sure he would have pulled a Joey Barton and tried to take people with him. Who wouldn't want to see Jesse Marsch punched in the face?

[scooterTFC]

Something is going to happen. They are lining everything up for a change. These types of changes don't happen mid season for the sake of happening or to get people in a position where they can use their skill sets more effectively.

I think Winter has 1 more loss left on his term here and I don't think the team thinks it's avoidable.
I just wonder who is coming in to take over with Jimmy B and Paul Mariner as First team assistants.

I like BDK - I hope he stays with the organization in the long run. He is very smart soccer guy and I think he'll be good for the academy. He's a bit of hard ass, but I think that younger kids will be able to learn a lot from him and gain the discipline needed to play on a first team.

Let me be the first to speculate that Steve Nicol may have just installed his preferred assistant coaches before officially taking over the team.

[Detroit_TFC]

One theory - maybe the players weren't comfortable with BDK's style of coaching and that is part of the funk. Could be an outcome of the clear the air meeting. Jimmy B as a former TFC player might have a different vibe. I'm just not sure how much technical knowledge he has to impart to senior players.

[Oldtimer]

Let me be the first to speculate that Steve Nicol may have just installed his preferred assistant coaches before officially taking over the team.

Maybe... but no indication Nicol is involved (yet). They could equally make Mariner coach.


One theory - maybe the players weren't comfortable with BDK's style of coaching and that is part of the funk. Could be an outcome of the clear the air meeting. Jimmy B as a former TFC player might have a different vibe. I'm just not sure how much technical knowledge he has to impart to senior players.

Another possibility.

[jabbronies]

Let me be the first to speculate that Steve Nicol may have just installed his preferred assistant coaches before officially taking over the team.

My thoughts exactly.

what was the setup in New England when it came to player scouting? Was Mariners current position even there? or was it his job to assist and scout?

[ag futbol]

So now if it continues, Mariner is fully implicated in it, and possibly Brennan as well. If I were Brennan, I'd want to be making damn sure I'm not being set up for something.

This whole thing smells. They're putting off the hard decision by trying to say they've done something. Better to rip the band-aid right off.
Certainly doesn't inspire confidence, does it. What a crazy way to do things.

If we could just operate like a regular team we'd save ourselves some headaches. Reminds me of Mo Johnston continually reinventing his role and replacing coaches when he was really the problem. TFC just needs to get to the point.

[Detroit_TFC]

If they do go for a change, it looks like Mariner as coach with Jimmy B. as assistant. BDK keeping the academy Dutch-flavoured.

0-8 is why they brought this in. I won't be writing Winter's obituary yet. Anselmi's not a guy to rush things.

Could be that when (if?) Vancouver knocks TFC out of CCL contention, that will force Tom's hand, though.

BDK is Winter's guy. No way he stays if AW is fired.

[Oldtimer]

My thoughts exactly.

what was the setup in New England when it came to player scouting? Was Mariners current position even there? or was it his job to assist and scout?

Mariner assisted and scouted, from what I recall. Remember that Kraft wouldn't have paid for a big front office or coaching staff.

[scooterTFC]

BDK is Winter's guy. No way he stays if AW is fired.

But this way he is forced to quit instead of getting a buyout from the club is they terminate his contract.

[colman1860]

So how much of this is installing Mariner in a quasi-assistant position to make Steve Nicol comfortable when he arrives? [he asks rhetorically]

[Whoop]

Seems BDK isn't happy with the move.

As per Larson,


Kurtis Larson ‏ @KurtLarSUN (https://twitter.com/#%21/KurtLarSUN)
De Klerk when asked "why the change": "That's a question for Aron Winter." #TFC (https://twitter.com/#%21/search/%23TFC)

[joeyjones]

interesting quotes from BDK via Kurtis Larson's twitter account:

"FYI, De Klerk did not seem like a man who had just been "promoted.""

"De Klerk when asked "why the change": "That's a question for Aron Winter.""

[Canary10]

^ Which tells me this move isn't Winter's idea.

[Canary10]

Let's face it, our club is in 100% crisis mode again, and yet again it's being mishandled. Fuck.

[C.Ronaldo]

wait...who made this decision?

under what guidance was this made?

[C.Ronaldo]

the senior players are running their own game anyways

no one is getting through to JDG anyway, and koevermans is going to be drinking beer regardless, and frings just does his job

[ManUtd4ever]

Allow me to remind everyone of Anselmi's famous promise of getting the "best front office in MLS".

18 months later and this is what they have come up with.

I have no words.

It's cosmetic, nothing more. It's likely a precursor to permanent changes in the front office should Winter continue to falter. I have the distinct feeling that Anselmi's hands are tied at the moment as a result of the pending transfer of ownership within MLSE, and therefore, no long term decisions will be made at this point in time.

[backbeat]

interesting quotes from BDK via Kurtis Larson's twitter account:

"FYI, De Klerk did not seem like a man who had just been "promoted.""

"De Klerk when asked "why the change": "That's a question for Aron Winter.""

actually to me it makes it sound as though it was Winters decision.

[TFC07]

And drama continues in TFC land.

[Beach_Red]

So now if it continues, Mariner is fully implicated in it, and possibly Brennan as well. If I were Brennan, I'd want to be making damn sure I'm not being set up for something.

This whole thing smells. They're putting off the hard decision by trying to say they've done something. Better to rip the band-aid right off.

I think people have underestimated how politically adept the guys above TFC management have been from the very beginning. Sure, it would be good for Brennan to make sure he isn't being set-up for something, but taking a job at MLSE means being set-up for something. Everyone that's ever worked for TFC has been put in place as insulation.

[Suds]

actually to me it makes it sound as though it was Winters decision.

That's how I read it.

[T-boy]

One theory - maybe the players weren't comfortable with BDK's style of coaching and that is part of the funk. Could be an outcome of the clear the air meeting. Jimmy B as a former TFC player might have a different vibe. I'm just not sure how much technical knowledge he has to impart to senior players.

Really Winter need only be the person with the technical knowledge.

His assistant needs to be the guy who motivates, and man manages. Maybe Brennan will be better at this than De Klerk?

De Klerk is rather old school (rather like John Carver) where he resorts to shouting and aggression towards players. But that doesn't always work with pro athletes.

Brennan might have a softer approach that the players might react better to?

[T-boy]

interesting quotes from BDK via Kurtis Larson's twitter account:

"FYI, De Klerk did not seem like a man who had just been "promoted.""

"De Klerk when asked "why the change": "That's a question for Aron Winter.""

That's very interesting.

[Beach_Red]

actually to me it makes it sound as though it was Winters decision.

It would be amaziong if a team that 0-8 let him make these kinds of decisions, but anything's possible here.

This would be what Anselmi meant by, "They have to work it out."

[MisterMacphisto]

Tom Anselmi needs to be fired and/or have nothing to do with Toronto FC.

Period.

This "club" will continue to be nothing but an embarrassing shit show as long as the current clueless staff at ML$E is running things.

It's way beyond a fucking embarrassment. This is a completely rudderless organization.

What a complete, fucking disaster.

[T-boy]

It would be amaziong if a team that 0-8 let him make these kinds of decisions, but anything's possible here.

This would be what Anselmi meant by, "They have to work it out."

If Winter and De Klerk were butting heads - its no wonder that TFC are 0-8.

I don't know Jim Brennan at all. Does anybody know what type of guy he is? He always seemed like the "nice guy" whenever I've heard him speak? I'm sure a few on this board have met the guy and can tell us what type of person he is?

[T-boy]

Tom Anselmi needs to be fired and/or have nothing to do with Toronto FC.

Period.

This "club" will continue to be nothing but an embarrassing shit show as long as the current clueless staff at ML$E is running things.

It's way beyond a fucking embarrassment. This is a completely rudderless organization.

What a complete, fucking disaster.

I have NO idea why people are crapping all over this news!

It can only be a positive thing to change some of the management at TFC right now! Can we all give it a chance and see what happens?

Clearly this organisation ISNT rudderless, otherwise they wouldn't have changed anything!

I praise the changes made today!

[Auzzy]

^ Interesting quote from BDK. However, that's not the only quote from him during his interview. Clearly BDK isn't all happy, but it's not all bad either for him I think. It will be interesting to hear his full interview (if/when that gets posted), and the full articles from various journos, before passing judgement. Hopefully we can see a bigger picture about all these moves eventually -- nah I doubt it.

As I noted above, it looks like a demotion of BDK wrt. on-field responsibilities, but a promotion in terms of scouting & links to the academy. For Mariner, it looks like at least a partial demotion wrt. scouting, but a promotion wrt. to on-field stuff.

[Nuvinho]

TFC couldn't go an entire week without drama - this makes good reading on a Monday afternoon. Thank you MLSE for being so screwed up!

[Auzzy]

Umm, personally I think 0-8 is much bigger drama than these management changes. I mean, wouldn't it be real drama if they did nothing at 0-8? I'm not saying these changes inspire much confidence or are enough; I just don't get why a management shuffle like this, with nobody (yet) getting fired and nobody new coming in (yet) is considered "drama."

[Canary10]

I have NO idea why people are crapping all over this news!

It can only be a positive thing to change some of the management at TFC right now! Can we all give it a chance and see what happens?

Clearly this organisation ISNT rudderless, otherwise they wouldn't have changed anything!

I praise the changes made today!

I just can't see how half-measures are a good thing. If it's bad enough to make any move, I think it needs to be the big move, not this minor tinkering stuff.

[Yohan]

Jimmy B is really being groomed to take over head coaching job in future

[Canary10]

^ If that's the case we know for sure this wasn't Winter's doing.

[CSO_BBTB]

It would be amaziong if a team that 0-8 let him make these kinds of decisions, but anything's possible here.

This would be what Anselmi meant by, "They have to work it out."

Maybe Winter was the one left to pass on the news of the "promotion" to De Klerk?

[Oldtimer]

I don't know Jim Brennan at all. Does anybody know what type of guy he is? He always seemed like the "nice guy" whenever I've heard him speak? I'm sure a few on this board have met the guy and can tell us what type of person he is?

He's every bit as nice as he sounds. He's also very much an "ordinary guy," the sort of person you'd expect to be playing hockey for a rec team, or you'd have a beer with at the local pub. No pretentiousness at all... pretty well the antithesis to Lord Black. :)

[T-boy]

I just can't see how half-measures are a good thing. If it's bad enough to make any move, I think it needs to be the big move, not this minor tinkering stuff.

I agree. Although, at this stage, with the season pretty much already lost for TFC, a half measure move is ok. If it was "be all or end all" at this stage of the season, then I agree all should be fired and TFC should find a completely new management. But as the season is lost, they have a chance to try and "adjust" rather than start completely over. Then, I'm sure if it hasn't changed the results within a month, Winter will be gone.

[[NBF]]

View Poll Results: Which nominee would you rather have as Head Coach of TFC in 2010?


Voters119. You have already voted on this poll


John Spencer (from Houston)

10 votes 8.40%
Mark Simpson (from D.C. United)

4 votes 3.36%
Paul Mariner (from Revolution)

45 votes 37.82%
Mo Johnston

10 votes 8.40%
None of the Nominees, There's better options from within MLS

50 votes 42.02%






From my thread 3 years ago, I just thought I would bring it up.

As far as the new change it looks more like the upper management is looking to replace Aron Winter because they are anticipating a loss at the Canadian Championship Final. Its definitely in the cards.

[T-boy]

He's every bit as nice as he sounds. He's also very much an "ordinary guy," the sort of person you'd expect to be playing hockey for a rec team, or you'd have a beer with at the local pub. No pretentiousness at all... pretty well the antithesis to Lord Black. :)

Interesting.

The "good guy" can sometimes work, and sometimes not. It really depends on the players and how they react to him. If he's the antithesis of De Klerk, it is an interesting move.

[Richard]

Jimmy B is really being groomed to take over head coaching job in future

If thats the case then they might as well fold the franchise. We need experianced personal not another inexperianced individual, but what am i saying this is MLSE where selling hope and future is the norm.

[Yohan]

If thats the case then they might as well fold the franchise. We need experianced personal not another inexperianced individual, but what am i saying this is MLSE where selling hope and future is the norm.

it's a tempting move for MLSE, to see so many ex MLS players doing relatively well as rookie/inexperienced managers and hope that Jimmy B can follow that trend. and a cheap solution to boot

I can see Winter being fired and Jimmy B becoming at least the 'interim' manager

[Beach_Red]

Jimmy B is really being groomed to take over head coaching job in future

Wasn't he being groomed to take over as GM? One thing about MLSE, it's a place where personal loyalties count. So, is Brennan Anselmi's guy in TFC? Which sn't necessarily a bad thing, whoever runs TFC is going to have to deal with MLSE - the only problem is that MLSE bring in inexperienced guys that are easy to 'run,' so to speak. They did it with the Leafs as long as they could and they're still doing it with TFC (probably because no one on the board cares enough about TFC).

[Canary10]

All I can say is when we finally make the playoffs 38 years from now we can all say we suffered as fans. Typical TFC.

[jabbronies]

If Winter and De Klerk were butting heads - its no wonder that TFC are 0-8.

I don't know Jim Brennan at all. Does anybody know what type of guy he is? He always seemed like the "nice guy" whenever I've heard him speak? I'm sure a few on this board have met the guy and can tell us what type of person he is?


He's every bit as nice as he sounds. He's also very much an "ordinary guy," the sort of person you'd expect to be playing hockey for a rec team, or you'd have a beer with at the local pub. No pretentiousness at all... pretty well the antithesis to Lord Black. :)

Heard he is a first grade douche. This is from soccer people in the city- could be sour grapes, but coming from the people who said that to me, I would highly doubt it.

[Richard]

Why do i get the feeling this is all not going to end well.

[Oldtimer]

Heard he is a first grade douche. This is from soccer people in the city- could be sour grapes, but coming from the people who said that to me, I would highly doubt it.

Interesting. Although I've met him, I never had to work with him.

[jabbronies]

;1488912']



From my thread 3 years ago, I just thought I would bring it up.

As far as the new change it looks more like the upper management is looking to replace Aron Winter because they are anticipating a loss at the Canadian Championship Final. Its definitely in the cards.

I remember that thread...I voted none of them. I still don't think Mariner should be head coach. He hasn't proven anything to suggest that he would be a good head coach.

[Canary10]

Can there be any more bull shit title than "Technical Manager?" What the hell is that? Does that mean he could be doing anything from teaching academy grads to fixing the BMO Stadium speaker system?

[Canary10]

Or maybe it's a way for MLSE to replace Winter with BDK. He can go around and say "well technically I'm the manager."

[TorontoGunner]

I have met Jimmy and he is not the friendliest guy. A few players and I went out several years ago and he does not come off as the nicest.

It looks like MLSE at work. They have built a shiny new academy and need the tactical expertise of BDK to keep the "vision" going. They can't
have him go down with Aron. We call it retention of human capital. In typical MLSE fashion they are bringing in a Canadian to soften the blow of another failure and
firing. Mariner has probably been sent to work more closely with the first team so he knows what he is working with. Reporting back to the three wiseman as to what is not working.

[Roogsy]

It's cosmetic, nothing more. It's likely a precursor to permanent changes in the front office should Winter continue to falter. I have the distinct feeling that Anselmi's hands are tied at the moment as a result of the pending transfer of ownership within MLSE, and therefore, no long term decisions will be made at this point in time.


It's looking more and more like it.

What a mess. :rolleyes:

[West220Side]

If they do go for a change, it looks like Mariner as coach with Jimmy B. as assistant. BDK keeping the academy Dutch-flavoured.

0-8 is why they brought this in. I won't be writing Winter's obituary yet. Anselmi's not a guy to rush things.

Could be that when (if?) Vancouver knocks TFC out of CCL contention, that will force Tom's hand, though.

I know I can't be the only one who hopes that if Winter is released, De Klerk and Rongen (maybe not Rongen) are all moved out aswell? I'm sort've tired of this 4-3-3 system hasn't been nearly as attractive as some football we've played in the past with the old 4-4-2 / 4-2-2-2 / 4-3-1-1

[Beach_Red]

All I can say is when we finally make the playoffs 38 years from now we can all say we suffered as fans. Typical TFC.

Yeah, I was hoping that would be this year....

[DangerRed]

He's every bit as nice as he sounds. He's also very much an "ordinary guy," the sort of person you'd expect to be playing hockey for a rec team, or you'd have a beer with at the local pub. No pretentiousness at all... pretty well the antithesis to Lord Black. :)

No offence meant, but you have no idea what you're talking about. I've heard more than once that he isn't a very nice dude to work with. Like, at all.

Also no clue where people are getting the idea that he's very well liked by the players. Who said that?

[Roogsy]

For heaven's sakes...if you're going to fire the man, just fire him. If you're gong to keep him on, give him a vote of confidence and let him do his job. But this political bullshit is just hurting the cause even more. This is truly a clusterfuck of epic proportions.


http://redpatchboys.ca/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=2783&d=1306863755


And even worse...the supporters groups are silent during all this. :rolleyes:


And Jimmy was not well-liked in the lockerroom FYI. If you really want to know where a lot of the player strife originated from during the MoJo years, we're talking about him right now.

And now he's going to be even more influential on this club going forward? OMG...

[Canary10]

^ I totally agree. If they can't move until the new ownership is in place the answer is definitely not to shift the deck chairs. Whatever is going on with the team record, Winter is a quality guy. I don't think firing him by a thousand personnel changes is a particularly professional way to do things.

[Oldtimer]

No offence meant, but you have no idea what you're talking about. I've heard more than once that he isn't a very nice dude to work with. Like, at all.


Read my follow up post, dude. I met him once but I've never worked with the guy. Totally different things with some people.

[TFC07]

I am surprised Dichio wasn't promoted as an assistant.

[__wowza]

http://redpatchboys.ca/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=2783&d=1306863755

this is the first time ive seen this avatar used on the forums.
let's never use it again, it'll never be more applicable..

[Roogsy]

Read my follow up post, dude. I met him once but I've never worked with the guy. Totally different things with some people.


People like me when they meet me too. Just sayin'...

:lol:

[Oldtimer]

And even worse...the supporters groups are silent during all this. :rolleyes:




Yeah, the news came out a few hours ago, we don't know what it means, and we haven't rioted in the streets!!!!! How irresponsible can the supporter's groups be? :lol:

[jabbronies]

I know I can't be the only one who hopes that if Winter is released, De Klerk and Rongen (maybe not Rongen) are all moved out aswell? I'm sort've tired of this 4-3-3 system hasn't been nearly as attractive as some football we've played in the past with the old 4-4-2 / 4-2-2-2 / 4-3-1-1

ummm huh? We've played some of the most attractive football we've ever played under this 4-3-3 system. We are not winning, which isn't attractive, but the game itself is being played much better than it ever has.

i think the only time we've played something close be being as attractive was when we played at BMO field against, either cruz azul or CD Motagua, in the champions league in 2010

[MisterMacphisto]

I have met Jimmy and he is not the friendliest guy. A few players and I went out several years ago and he does not come off as the nicest.

It looks like MLSE at work. They have built a shiny new academy and need the tactical expertise of BDK to keep the "vision" going. They can't
have him go down with Aron. We call it retention of human capital. In typical MLSE fashion they are bringing in a Canadian to soften the blow of another failure and
firing. Mariner has probably been sent to work more closely with the first team so he knows what he is working with. Reporting back to the three wiseman as to what is not working.

QFT...

No disrespect to Jimmy B, liked him a lot as a player, no doubt dedication to TFC, but on the other side in the office now, he is no doubt an MLSE yes man. Winter having his right hand man replaced for Jimmy B makes zero sense, BDK moving to "Technical Cordinator", Paul M. dabbling on the field... This has MLSE desperation meddling written all over it.

MLSE has no idea what they are doing. They totally rely on hired hand who don't really have full accountability. From Mo Johnston, to outsourcing to Klinsmann... Who was supposed to put together an office and club "That represented Toronto" whatever the hell that was. Now some more tinkering. They do not have a clue how to run a football club. It's the most obvious thing in the world. As long as Tom Salami Fingers and Paul Bernie are running TFC, there will always be this laughable executing of putting together a championship club.

TFC needs to be owned/run by soccer minds and people who want to be champions, not these clueless suits who are reactionary to declining sales and corporate profits.

[Canary10]

In Venky's we trust.....

[West220Side]

I am surprised Dichio wasn't promoted as an assistant.

Maybe they didnt like the way Dichio played his role while he was assistant before.
ALSO Whats up with Jason Bent.. I do recall him being one of the assistant coaches (2nd Assistant) is he still with us? How come he's always so quiet (He coached one of the games in Florida, no?) What is his job even?

[Roogsy]

Yeah, the news came out a few hours ago, we don't know what it means, and we haven't rioted in the streets!!!!! How irresponsible can the supporter's groups be? :lol:

It's cumulative James. If there wasn't a peep during an 0-8 start, I doubt there will be much activity on this, whether it be hours, days or weeks after the announcement.

[[NBF]]

I have met Jimmy and he is not the friendliest guy. A few players and I went out several years ago and he does not come off as the nicest.

It looks like MLSE at work. They have built a shiny new academy and need the tactical expertise of BDK to keep the "vision" going. They can't
have him go down with Aron. We call it retention of human capital. In typical MLSE fashion they are bringing in a Canadian to soften the blow of another failure and
firing. Mariner has probably been sent to work more closely with the first team so he knows what he is working with. Reporting back to the three wiseman as to what is not working.

I worked at a place that resembled what you are saying. It was literally hell for everyone. Everyone knew who the so called "spies" were and it made for some unsettling situations. All of it though stemmed from the boss being an absent from the actual work and delegating duties to two seperate individuals who were asked to work together on an important job which might have been too big for the two. g:D:drinking: I have to say it brings back nightmares and memories of fucking the dog in protest of the lack of direction.

[TorontoGunner]

I have met BDK around the city on a couple of occasions (liberty Village) He is friendly and passionate. Told my wife and I that his daughters finally moved over
and enrolled in George Brown. Loves the city. Maybe Aron did a solid to a friend who uprooted his family from Europe. It seems as though the hawks and MLSE
have been circling and maybe he got BDK some distance.

[Roogsy]

The crazy thing about all this is that after the "airing" out in that meeting last week, that was precisely the sort of thing that should have been built upon in order not to revert to the "pre-meeting" form. Instead, this management cock-up is exactly the kind of thing that disheartens ALL staff, whether it be the adminsitrative staff, the training staff and ultimately the players. They could NOT have done something more damaging to the morale of the club than send a flare up on the sky with panic written all over it.

How these idiots managed to become high-paid executives of a major corporation is a shock to me. If MLSE was a public company, I'd slap on a "sell" on it and tell investors to stay away.

[TorontoGunner]

The crazy thing about all this is that after the "airing" out in that meeting last week, that was precisely the sort of thing that should have been built upon in order not to revert to the "pre-meeting" form. Instead, this management cock-up is exactly the kind of thing that disheartens ALL staff, whether it be the adminsitrative staff, the training staff and ultimately the players. They could NOT have done something more damaging to the morale of the club than send a flare up on the sky with panic written all over it.

How these idiots managed to become high-paid executives of a major corporation is a shock to me. If MLSE was a public company, I'd slap on a "sell" on it and tell investors to stay away.

Totally agree. I wouldn't invest a nickel with this level of incompetence

[ag futbol]

And Jimmy was not well-liked in the lockerroom FYI. If you really want to know where a lot of the player strife originated from during the MoJo years, we're talking about him right now.

And now he's going to be even more influential on this club going forward? OMG...
Yeah, I thought it was funny that he was untouchable until Preki basically told him to get lost. I have never seen anyone blow their defensive responsibility so consistently and ream out other players when something went wrong. His flank was a practical super highway for opposing teams to send in crosses as Jimmy gave everyone like 10+ yards of space.

If this is our "future", I would literally take anyone we had previously as a substitute. And I mean ANYONE. I'd take AW for the rest of his contract FFS.

[Canary10]

So back to Roogsy's other point, what are supporters going to do about it?

[Beach_Red]

QFT...

No disrespect to Jimmy B, liked him a lot as a player, no doubt dedication to TFC, but on the other side in the office now, he is no doubt an MLSE yes man. Winter having his right hand man replaced for Jimmy B makes zero sense, BDK moving to "Technical Cordinator", Paul M. dabbling on the field... This has MLSE desperation meddling written all over it.

MLSE has no idea what they are doing. They totally rely on hired hand who don't really have full accountability. From Mo Johnston, to outsourcing to Klinsmann... Who was supposed to put together an office and club "That represented Toronto" whatever the hell that was. Now some more tinkering. They do not have a clue how to run a football club. It's the most obvious thing in the world. As long as Tom Salami Fingers and Paul Bernie are running TFC, there will always be this laughable executing of putting together a championship club.

TFC needs to be owned/run by soccer minds and people who want to be champions, not these clueless suits who are reactionary to declining sales and corporate profits.


Or maybe the guys making the decisions know exactly what they're doing - they're insulating themselves and making sure they always have an excuse. When the board says, "How come attendance is dropping, why aren't you winning?" they can say, "We hired the guy the league recommended, we hired the guy Klinsmann recommended, we've done everything right." And they kept the team on (even under) budget by not hiring any scouts or much else of a front office for years until the demand was overwhelming.

It really reminds me of the CBC....

[__wowza]

It's cumulative James. If there wasn't a peep during an 0-8 start, I doubt there will be much activity on this, whether it be hours, days or weeks after the announcement.

and what would you have us do?

[Canary10]

^ Can someone smuggle chickens into BMO to be let loose on the pitch?

On second thought a pig would be more representative of MLSE.

[Yohan]

So back to Roogsy's other point, what are supporters going to do about it?all we have is speculations, and not enough facts

[Oldtimer]

So back to Roogsy's other point, what are supporters going to do about it?

Why don't you join our group and talk to the executive instead of armchair criticizing?

[Canary10]

You don't think there's enough to say we have a front office that has no idea what it's doing?

[TorontoGunner]

;1488953']I worked at a place that resembled what you are saying. It was literally hell for everyone. Everyone knew who the so called "spies" were and it made for some unsettling situations. All of it though stemmed from the boss being an absent from the actual work and delegating duties to two seperate individuals who were asked to work together on an important job which might have been too big for the two. g:D:drinking: I have to say it brings back nightmares and memories of fucking the dog in protest of the lack of direction.

That sucks. It is so important to have a structure where people know their role and are productive in it. When "spies" or people want your job get involed it is a hopeless situation.
There are a lot of chiefs in the head office Cochrane and Mariner who may want the keys to the kingdom. They (MLSE) will put Jimmy out front to play the Canadian card.

[Canary10]

"Why don't you join our group and talk to the executive instead of armchair criticizing?"

Sure how do I do that? Evertime I go to the RPB homepage the membership info is from 2011. I don't actually know how you join.

[Beach_Red]

Totally agree. I wouldn't invest a nickel with this level of incompetence

It's like buying government bonds - they may not be able to put together a winning team, but you can be sure there'll never be another NHL team in southern Ontario and as long as there's any interest in MLS at all there'll be one team - theirs.

[Whoop]

If Jimmy B ends up being the head coach of the team I think I just might walk away...

[ExiledRed]

Why don't you join our group and talk to the executive instead of armchair criticizing?

He did specifically say 'we supporters' which refers to a much larger demographic than your group.

I dont think he was criticising your group, but otherwise, armchair criticising is exactly what discussion forums are designed for.

just saying, because that was confrontational and uncalled for.

[Beach_Red]

^ Can someone smuggle chickens into BMO to be let loose on the pitch?

On second thought a pig would be more representative of MLSE.


the last time someone smuggled a chicken into an event in Toronto Alice Cooper killed it.... (well, he threw it into the audience because he said he thought it could fly)

[ag futbol]

Ives Galarcep ‏ @SoccerByIves

Crazy stuff going on at Toronto FC. The politics, posturing and allegiances are something out of Game of Thrones. #StayTuned


... wow

[Canary10]

He did specifically say 'we supporters' which refers to a much larger demographic than your group.

I dont think he was criticising your group, but otherwise, armchair criticising is exactly what discussion forums are designed for.

just saying, because that was confrontational and uncalled for.

I meant it in the general "we" as supporters as you said, but the reality is no one in my section in 121 is going to do anything other than stop buying tickets. So I appreciate the challenge from Oldtimer.

[Whoop]

I'd say we bring in deck chairs but after what happened in Turkey this past weekend, it might not be a good idea.

So maybe a banner depicting shuffling deck chairs...

[Whoop]

Or play musical chairs...

[Huyton]

I think the moves might be a way to get rid of Winter and Jimmy B. When the new coach comes in, he'll want his own assistant.

[Oldtimer]

I meant it in the general "we" as supporters as you said, but the reality is no one in my section in 121 is going to do anything other than stop buying tickets. So I appreciate the challenge from Oldtimer.


Thank you, it was addressed to yourself, so I wanted to hear from you, and I appreciate your attitude. It's a real conundrum how to deal with ML$E.

[BHTC Mike]

In Venky's we trust.....
That would be a brilliant banner. Well played.

[Auzzy]

Some more quotes & info: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/soccer/jim-brennan-promoted-to-toronto-fc-assistant-coach/article2432080/


Does anyone know when the Bell/Rogers takeover of MLSE is likely to be completed?

[Auzzy]

And John Molinaro's article: http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/2012/05/14/tfc_former_captain_brennan_new_coach/

[BayernTFC]

Interviews from Winter: http://www.torontofc.ca/video/2012/05/14/aron-winter-may-14-2012

de Klerk: http://www.torontofc.ca/video/2012/05/14/bob-de-klerk-may-14-2012

and Brennan: http://www.torontofc.ca/video/2012/05/14/jim-brennan-may-14-2012

[wzhxvy]

I actually do not have an issue with these changes with the exception of the Brennan change. Brennan gave the appearance that he was the company man during the Mojo years and given the leaks in that locker room, I would not be surprised if he was the source.

It is evident now, that Brennan has played the politics well within MLSE and hence the promotion. This is not about competence, track record, or experience which is why its a joke and a sign that TFC once again is a mess.

I have no issues with the other changes, you shift your talent around, put BDK where he can add value and engage Mariner for his expertise. All good. The Brennan piece is however a sign that this whole thing has nothing to do with competence but politics. AND our team suffers...again

[spark]

And John Molinaro's article: http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/2012/05/14/tfc_former_captain_brennan_new_coach/

Holy crap was that written in one breath?

[v00d00daddy]

Interviews from Winter: http://www.torontofc.ca/video/2012/05/14/aron-winter-may-14-2012

de Klerk: http://www.torontofc.ca/video/2012/05/14/bob-de-klerk-may-14-2012

and Brennan: http://www.torontofc.ca/video/2012/05/14/jim-brennan-may-14-2012

At around the 4:00 minute mark in the Winter interview....did he say he is remaining as technical director but will NOT be on the pitch anymore?

Do these reporters even listen to the answers or is it my bad ears? lol

[Auzzy]

Holy crap was that written in one breath?

I know, how about some paragraphs! ;)

[Pookie]

Hey, Jimmy was captain before he was promoted to the club's assistant GM. That has to count for something. And before he was promoted to assistant coach of the first team he was coaching some kids. He has at least filled out a roster sheet.

Natural career progression, especially for someone with little to no experience. I'm sure his tenure as assistant will add as much value as his tenure as captain and as assistant GM.

[Auzzy]

I actually do not have an issue with these changes with the exception of the Brennan change. Brennan gave the appearance that he was the company man during the Mojo years and given the leaks in that locker room, I would not be surprised if he was the source.

It is evident now, that Brennan has played the politics well within MLSE and hence the promotion. This is not about competence, track record, or experience which is why its a joke and a sign that TFC once again is a mess.

I have no issues with the other changes, you shift your talent around, put BDK where he can add value and engage Mariner for his expertise. All good. The Brennan piece is however a sign that this whole thing has nothing to do with competence but politics. AND our team suffers...again

I'm also particularly worried about the Brennan promotion based on past experience and various rumours. However, some have said that Brennan has done well with the U-17 team. Is that true, anyone have any insight?

[BayernTFC]

At around the 4:00 minute mark in the Winter interview....did he say he is remaining as technical director but will NOT be on the pitch anymore?

Do these reporters even listen to the answers or is it my bad ears? lol
The question was asked whether Winter was still Technical Director. Winter answered, "Yes, of course. Yes, of course. But, I'm now going to be more on the pitch."

[spark]

At around the 4:00 minute mark in the Winter interview....did he say he is remaining as technical director but will NOT be on the pitch anymore?

Do these reporters even listen to the answers or is it my bad ears? lol

I think he said "I will be MORE on the pitch"

[ensco]

Just some reminders about Brennan:

In mid 2007, as the concern about the plastic multiplied with the injuries, our captain became a paid promoter of Fieldturf. It was entirely within his right. But was it a demonstration of leadership?

He was part of the Cochrane/Anselmi FO (as assistant GM or some such) post Mo in 2010. He is 100% an Anselmi appointee.

He is wound very tight, and was not temperamentally well suited to being captain. He got a lot of criticism for that here. Really he had relatively few supporters in the captain's role. (Remember Garcia coming in and owning the huddle before his first game?)

He also played hard and played hurt. I know that too. I don't hate the guy.

The good news is, it's probably better for Brennan to get some "visibility" in this circus. Let Dichio keep working with the kids, and working on his craft, this terrible year. Danny won't be perceived as part of the problem by the new owners.

[v00d00daddy]

The question was asked whether Winter was still Technical Director. Winter answered, "Yes, of course. Yes, of course. But, I'm now going to be more on the pitch."


I think he said "I will be MORE on the pitch"

Thanks guys. I'll chalk that up to my bad ears. LOL

[Richard]

Let me put this into perspective. Say a player plays for ManU(2 1/2 years), retires to become the assistant of the GM at ManU, goes onto coaching the youth team of ManU then finds himself shorlty 1 year becoming the assistant to Sir Alex. I dont care if your fucking Donkey Kong FC or ManU, a professional organziation does not do this shit no matter how shit the league or club is.

[Yohan]

So... are you saying DC and New England aren't professional teams?

[sulfur]

I'd say we bring in deck chairs but after what happened in Turkey this past weekend, it might not be a good idea.

So maybe a banner depicting shuffling deck chairs...
A bunch of two-sticks with deck chairs on 'em and just keep moving around with them.

[Torontotonto]

Is this a joke !
What substantial difference is this going to make ?

This is the change I would prefer to see, from the top down...

Anselmi
Cochrane
Bernie

Thats what I call change

[moralis]

Let's see first if these changes work before we start criticizing. I personally like these changes. TFC needs more management structure and they decided to do that internally. Bob De Clerk will bring that with the help of Paul Mariner and Earl Cohranes. I believe TFC has major issues scouting international players, remember Giovanni Caicedo and Miguel Aceval were Paul Mariner signings with Winter signing off. In my opinion Paul Mariner and the rest of the scouting staff have done a horrendous job. That's what TFC fans should look at. WHO IS SCOUTING INTERNATIONAL PLAYERS. Not players we all know, but quality undiscovered talent from Europe, Central and South America and Asia/Africa.

Let's hope Bob De Clerk brings some structure to international scouting and also hire more international scouts. We as fans don't know how many international scouts TFC have and if they are good enough to discover untapped talent. There's no salary cap on hiring qualified and experienced international scouts. MLSE have the money. Rogers has done that with the Toronto Blue Jays why can't MLSE do that with TFC.

I do believe TFC have structural issues that need to resolved.

[Richard]

So... are you saying DC and New England aren't professional teams?

I dont know what you are reffering too.

Quite frankly an organization making a former player who just retires recently and now has a grand total of 2 years experiance coaching youth into an asssistant coach is ill advised. This is one of the many reasons Winter is disliked, I myself do not see TFC as a professionally run club and i think you would agree on that. Indivduals should have to earn there ranks through time, it says a lot about an organization when a player can become 1 step away from manager(coach) within 2 years of retiring.

[Yohan]

I dont know what you are reffering too.

Quite frankly an organization making a former player who just retires recently and now has a grand total of 2 years experiance coaching youth into an asssistant coach is ill advised. This is one of the many reasons Winter is disliked, I myself do not see TFC as a professionally run club and i think you would agree on that. Indivduals should have to earn there ranks through time, it says a lot about an organization when a player can become 1 step away from manager(coach) within 2 years of retiring.
New England hired Jay Heaps as head coach basically straight after Heaps retired. DC United appointed Ben Olsen as an assistant, and like 7 months later, he was appointed interim manager, then manager.

[Azerban]

WHO IS SCOUTING INTERNATIONAL PLAYERS.


up pops a smiling mo johnston

[Richard]

New England hired Jay Heaps as head coach basically straight after Heaps retired. DC United appointed Ben Olsen as an assistant, and like 7 months later, he was appointed interim manager, then manager.

This is why many see MLS as bush league. Do you think any of those two individuals have the necessary experiance to run a club, this wont happen in many major football leagues in the world. I dont want to look as hating on MLS but these hirings make the league look bad.

[Yohan]

This is why many see MLS as bush league. Do you think any of those two individuals have the necessary experiance to run a club, this wont happen in many major football leagues in the world. I dont want to look as hating on MLS but these hirings make the league look bad.

Were people laughing at Sunderland when they signed Roy Keane in 06?

[MarkEightThree]

Kreis retired in early 2007 and became the head coach almost immediately. Success didn't come instantly, but RSL is viewed as one of the powerhouses of the league now.

[PopePouri]

This is why many see MLS as bush league. Do you think any of those two individuals have the necessary experiance to run a club, this wont happen in many major football leagues in the world. I dont want to look as hating on MLS but these hirings make the league look bad.

Those leagues have the benefit of being around for over 100 years.

[Richard]

Were people laughing at Sunderland when they signed Roy Keane in 06?

Well no. Sometimes they work out, but hiring big name stars will always look ok when they have no experiance. My point is you cant start hiring former players as managers, these individuals(everyone else as well) have to work their way up the ladder. This is when you evaluate if they are good enough to begin a new role. Jimmy B coaching TFC academy for 2 years is nowhere near enough time to evaluate if he is ready.

[jloome]

This is what I suspect is going on:

* Winter and Mariner have been fighting since the start. This has been alluded to in Ives Galarcep's blog since pre-season. We've since had suggestions of people in the front office blocking player moves.

* Winter's team obviously has some talent but goes to 0-8 and there's obvious communication issues, thus the meetings.

* They attempt a quick fix with this move, while also setting up a caretaker in case it doesn't work: Mariner is removed from the front office, so Winter's own guy, who he trusts, can handle player acquisition. At the same time, De Klerk, who is hotheaded but not necessarily a great communicator, is removed from day-to-day coaching of the players, and Brennan is brought in because a) he's played in this league and can relate and b) he's learned to teach the system at the Academy level; as a c) he's a loyal Anselmi guy who can be used as a caretaker if they fire the lot.

What this suggests is that the players still like Winter -- they say he has their back and their his in interviews, which isn't necessary and is only a positive indication -- but he's an absentee GM, not a training level guy. So there's no point, to Anselmi, in firing him. He's the local equivalent of Klinsmann: the face of the club and the guy who makes exec decisions. He's Tom's new insulation (whereas Mo was before).

This move smells of a belief that internal player acquisition issues, combined with poor communication by the field-level coach, were our biggest problems. Mariner is asked to stick around, but in a greatly reduced role -- they're basically making him the strikers' coach. And Anselmi is corporately covered six ways from Sunday: if the system keeps failing, he can fire Winter and Deklerk then and install Brennan temporarily as a "loyal team guy."

If the system turns around, he can take credit for putting DeKlerk into player acquisition and fire Mariner quietly as being extraneous.

[Yohan]

Well no. Sometimes they work out, but hiring big name stars will always look ok when they have no experiance. My point is you cant start hiring former players as managers, these individuals(everyone else as well) have to work their way up the ladder. This is when you evaluate if they are good enough to begin a new role. Jimmy B coaching TFC academy for 2 years is nowhere near enough time to evaluate if he is ready.
Jay Heaps was one of better left backs in MLS for a long time. Ben Olsen, one of better DM. Jason Kreis was one of best strikers in the league. They may not be 'big name' overseas, but those 3 had some of better playing credentials.

BTW, Guardiola had only two years managing Barcelona 'B' team after retiring as player to manage perhaps the biggest club in the club

[T-boy]

Interviews from Winter: http://www.torontofc.ca/video/2012/05/14/aron-winter-may-14-2012

de Klerk: http://www.torontofc.ca/video/2012/05/14/bob-de-klerk-may-14-2012

and Brennan: http://www.torontofc.ca/video/2012/05/14/jim-brennan-may-14-2012

Ok now I'm confused. When Brennan is asked what he's going to be doing, he answer that they've still got to discuss it?!

So they haven't actually talked this through at all yet?

I thought this was all planned out....but clearly it hasn't been!

[Richard]

Jay Heaps was one of better left backs in MLS for a long time. Ben Olsen, one of better DM. Jason Kreis was one of best strikers in the league. They may not be 'big name' overseas, but those 3 had some of better playing credentials.

BTW, Guardiola had only two years managing Barcelona 'B' team after retiring as player to manage perhaps the biggest club in the club

Well then lets hope Jimmy B works out for everyones sake but history would suggest it wont, I just dont like inexperienced individuals running a club. Anyways he is not coach yet so this is moot and off topic.

[69Chevy396]

Ok now I'm confused. When Brennan is asked what he's going to be doing, he answer that they've still got to discuss it?!

So they haven't actually talked this through at all yet?

I thought this was all planned out....but clearly it hasn't been!

the thought of Brennan anywhere on the pitch in a coaching role gives me the shudders. Don't you people remember 50 percent of his ball distribution as an average mls player was booting the ball down the pitch? He had good qualities, but one was clearly not controlling the movement of the ball the way Winter promised when he came here....I see these two strangling each other after the team goes 0-10

[Yohan]

Well then lets hope Jimmy B works out for everyones sake but history would suggest it wont, I just dont like inexperienced individuals running a club. Anyways he is not coach yet so this is moot and off topic.
I don't want to sound like I'm just picking on you, but you have to put everything into context, esp in MLS where managers with good credentials fail (Queiroz with NY)

[T-boy]

the thought of Brennan anywhere on the pitch in a coaching role gives me the shudders. Don't you people remember 50 percent of his ball distribution as an average mls player was booting the ball down the pitch? He had good qualities, but one was clearly not controlling the movement of the ball the way Winter promised when he came here....I see these two strangling each other after the team goes 0-10

I think we discussed in a different thread - a bad players doesn't necessarily mean a bad coach, and a good player doesn't always mean a good coach. So, I'll give Brennan the benefit of the doubt about his coaching abilities right now.

[ensco]

This is what I suspect is going on:

* Winter and Mariner have been fighting since the start. This has been alluded to in Ives Galarcep's blog since pre-season. We've since had suggestions of people in the front office blocking player moves.

* Winter's team obviously has some talent but goes to 0-8 and there's obvious communication issues, thus the meetings.

* They attempt a quick fix with this move, while also setting up a caretaker in case it doesn't work: Mariner is removed from the front office, so Winter's own guy, who he trusts, can handle player acquisition. At the same time, De Klerk, who is hotheaded but not necessarily a great communicator, is removed from day-to-day coaching of the players, and Brennan is brought in because a) he's played in this league and can relate and b) he's learned to teach the system at the Academy level; as a c) he's a loyal Anselmi guy who can be used as a caretaker if they fire the lot.

What this suggests is that the players still like Winter -- they say he has their back and their his in interviews, which isn't necessary and is only a positive indication -- but he's an absentee GM, not a training level guy. So there's no point, to Anselmi, in firing him. He's the local equivalent of Klinsmann: the face of the club and the guy who makes exec decisions. He's Tom's new insulation (whereas Mo was before).

This move smells of a belief that internal player acquisition issues, combined with poor communication by the field-level coach, were our biggest problems. Mariner is asked to stick around, but in a greatly reduced role -- they're basically making him the strikers' coach. And Anselmi is corporately covered six ways from Sunday: if the system keeps failing, he can fire Winter and Deklerk then and install Brennan temporarily as a "loyal team guy."

If the system turns around, he can take credit for putting DeKlerk into player acquisition and fire Mariner quietly as being extraneous.

This is good. I like the Shakespearean element in this interpretation. Conniving and complicated, with the ring of truth.

Of course it could just be Much Ado About Nothing.

[Richard]

I don't want to sound like I'm just picking on you, but you have to put everything into context, esp in MLS where managers with good credentials fail (Queiroz with NY)

That is true but usually the manager with the most experiance will have a higher chance of success. I know what your saying and i do believe that this league has many hurdles which must be overcome but not seen in many others.

[Auzzy]

And John Molinaro's article: http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/2012/05/14/tfc_former_captain_brennan_new_coach/

Now with paragraphs! :thumbsup:

[Pookie]

I am fine with investing in International scouting provided they put resources into it. To just say, ok Bob, that's your job now. Does he have a budget and is that budget consistent with the kind of revenue they are bringing in?

[JuliquE]

Let me put this into perspective. Say a player plays for ManU(2 1/2 years), retires to become the assistant of the GM at ManU, goes onto coaching the youth team of ManU then finds himself shorlty 1 year becoming the assistant to Sir Alex. I dont care if your fucking Donkey Kong FC or ManU, a professional organziation does not do this shit no matter how shit the league or club is.
On the subject of ManU: I believe it was Gary Neville just appointed to an assistant role in the English setup, under Roy Hodgeson.

[Beach_Red]

I am fine with investing in International scouting provided they put resources into it. To just say, ok Bob, that's your job now. Does he have a budget and is that budget consistent with the kind of revenue they are bringing in?

Why spend money on scouting when player agents come to you with very reliable highlight reels for free?

(do I need to put the... ;)?)

[Oldtimer]

This is what I suspect is going on:



I like your take on things.

Ives seems to think that Jimmy B. isn't as hated as some here seem to think:


As for how the changes might help the team in the short term, there is a sense that going from a task-master like de Klerk to a more well-liked player's coach type in Brennan might help improve the mood in the locker room.

I honestly don't know how he is as a coach, maybe some have heard.

[Roogsy]

No reason for the current crop of players to dislike him, he's been working with the kids since last year.

[Auzzy]

Ives Galarcep's full take on the changes: http://www.soccerbyives.net/soccer_by_ives/2012/05/winless-toronto-fc-reshuffles-front-office.html

And how about this mlssoccer.com headline: "TFC legend Brennan made assistant coach in staff shuffle." Um yeah sure...

[Section 117]

Guys, this is one big smoke screen. Winter is done, they are just waiting till they get knocked out of Champions League. Then Jimmy will replace him as the interm to the end of the season. I personally think this fucked up and complete and utter bullshit. We are going to fire Winter and replace him with a yes man. He was the rat in the dressing room during the Mo years and is a fucking loser of an individual. Fuck him and TFC if this happens, we as supporters don't need this shit show of team. How can you go from a shit player (most overated player in our history), to assistant GM, to coach of the U17 to now first assistant to Winter??? Maybe FirstWave is still involved with the MLS holdovers. Fuck them all

Just to piss them all off, I hope Winter and the lads goes on a run of 4 wins in 6 and then 8 of twelve with a couple of draws. I hope this backfires in the FO face, cause I have officially had enough.

[Pookie]

One slightly different angle to this is that De Klerk going to work alongside Earl Cochrane was actually something Winter wanted. If there is a little infighting going on, maybe Winter wants Bob close to the source to keep him honest.

[Roogsy]

Guys, this is one big smoke screen. Winter is done, they are just waiting till they get knocked out of Champions League. Then Jimmy will replace him as the interm to the end of the season. I personally think this fucked up and complete and utter bullshit. We are going to fire Winter and replace him with a yes man. He was the rat in the dressing room during the Mo years and is a fucking loser of an individual. Fuck him and TFC if this happens, we as supporters don't need this shit show of team. How can you go from a shit player (most overated player in our history), to assistant GM, to coach of the U17 to now first assistant to Winter??? Maybe FirstWave is still involved with the MLS holdovers. Fuck them all

Just to piss them all off, I hope Winter and the lads goes on a run of 4 wins in 6 and then 8 of twelve with a couple of draws. I hope this backfires in the FO face, cause I have officially had enough.

I told you guys at the beginning of the year that McLean still had his tentacles in TFC...and its not through First Wave. They split during Preki's season and he is now Santio Sports. And several players and managers are repped by this leach.

[kodiakTFC]

Guys, this is one big smoke screen. Winter is done, they are just waiting till they get knocked out of Champions League. Then Jimmy will replace him as the interm to the end of the season. I personally think this fucked up and complete and utter bullshit. We are going to fire Winter and replace him with a yes man. He was the rat in the dressing room during the Mo years and is a fucking loser of an individual. Fuck him and TFC if this happens, we as supporters don't need this shit show of team. How can you go from a shit player (most overated player in our history), to assistant GM, to coach of the U17 to now first assistant to Winter??? Maybe FirstWave is still involved with the MLS holdovers. Fuck them all

Just to piss them all off, I hope Winter and the lads goes on a run of 4 wins in 6 and then 8 of twelve with a couple of draws. I hope this backfires in the FO face, cause I have officially had enough.

What Champions League?

[Whoop]

I think Section 117 means the Voyageurs Cup.

[Canary10]

One slightly different angle to this is that De Klerk going to work alongside Earl Cochrane was actually something Winter wanted. If there is a little infighting going on, maybe Winter wants Bob close to the source to keep him honest.

I wish that were true but I don't think Winter has the power to reassign people. Can he actually make a decision that he wants Brennan as his assistant coach and move all these people around accordingly? I doubt it. More likely he was told.

Also, unless BDK has a really good poker face, he didn't seem to be in on the plan.

[Section 117]

I told you guys at the beginning of the year that McLean still had his tentacles in TFC...and its not through First Wave. They split during Preki's season and he is now Santio Sports. And several players and managers are repped by this leach.

I didn't know they split. I know for sure that cunt Jimmy is represented by him. Who else is represented by these pieces of trash?? I assume Earl Cochrane is another what a fucking douche bag he is. I am almost positive he and jimmy are why these idiots are still influencing this club

[Ajax TFC]

This move doesnt bug me so much because I think Brennan would be a shitty assistant. It bugs me because it seems that they're giving him roles (and some pretty important ones at that) for the sake of him having a role, not because he's the best man for te job.

[TorCanSoc]

Klinsman has been silent. If TFC was 8-0 he'd be chirping up a storm about his soccer consulting company.

All this speculation is an amazing read.

Are these true statements?
1) The MLS season is over. We're not making the playoffs.
2) Lose the Cdn Championships, Winter is fired.

The recent changes, will not change the above two statements. If we win the Canadian Championships, Winter buys his way to the end of the season...which will continue to be awkward.

[boozilla]

Klinsman sold an outdated Dutch attacking system to a rebuilding team in a physical league.
MLSE bought it. Caveat emptor.
Watch for the impending de-dutchification of TFC.

[jloome]

This is good. I like the Shakespearean element in this interpretation. Conniving and complicated, with the ring of truth.

Of course it could just be Much Ado About Nothing.

Heheh, Out Damn Spotty Record!

Then again, the Bard's popular because he knew human nature.

[jloome]

Klinsman sold an outdated Dutch attacking system to a rebuilding team in a physical league.
MLSE bought it. Caveat emptor.
Watch for the impending de-dutchification of TFC.

I wouldn't count on that. Other MLS teams who have coaches with an American soccer pedigree are implementing the offensive elements of it, but simplifying their defensive systems and doing what we did in the last game, which is pressuring high up the pitch to put the onus on technical ability, due to less time on the ball.

It may be "de-dutchification" in a sense, but it won't be getting rid of the 4-3-3. it's a very adaptive system and the rotational/coverage aspect of it tends to be endemic to the offensive end.

[Oldtimer]

I'm happy with Nicol or Rongen or even Mariner being coach. If Jimmy B. ends up being coach... it will be more than a little upsetting. Why have him when there is experienced talent available? It would reek to the extreme.

OTOH, the media are taking a different angle, that it's removing BDK from the touchline. Then it would make sense to have a striker coach the strikers and a defender the defenders. Maybe we are reading too much into this due to 0-8.

[Shakes McQueen]

This is what I suspect is going on:

* Winter and Mariner have been fighting since the start. This has been alluded to in Ives Galarcep's blog since pre-season. We've since had suggestions of people in the front office blocking player moves.

* Winter's team obviously has some talent but goes to 0-8 and there's obvious communication issues, thus the meetings.

* They attempt a quick fix with this move, while also setting up a caretaker in case it doesn't work: Mariner is removed from the front office, so Winter's own guy, who he trusts, can handle player acquisition. At the same time, De Klerk, who is hotheaded but not necessarily a great communicator, is removed from day-to-day coaching of the players, and Brennan is brought in because a) he's played in this league and can relate and b) he's learned to teach the system at the Academy level; as a c) he's a loyal Anselmi guy who can be used as a caretaker if they fire the lot.

What this suggests is that the players still like Winter -- they say he has their back and their his in interviews, which isn't necessary and is only a positive indication -- but he's an absentee GM, not a training level guy. So there's no point, to Anselmi, in firing him. He's the local equivalent of Klinsmann: the face of the club and the guy who makes exec decisions. He's Tom's new insulation (whereas Mo was before).

This move smells of a belief that internal player acquisition issues, combined with poor communication by the field-level coach, were our biggest problems. Mariner is asked to stick around, but in a greatly reduced role -- they're basically making him the strikers' coach. And Anselmi is corporately covered six ways from Sunday: if the system keeps failing, he can fire Winter and Deklerk then and install Brennan temporarily as a "loyal team guy."

If the system turns around, he can take credit for putting DeKlerk into player acquisition and fire Mariner quietly as being extraneous.

This is pretty close to my own theory on this reshuffling, although I don't know how much it has to do with Brennan being a "loyal Anselmi guy" (Is he? What body of evidence is that based on?)

I think MLSE would be more likely to give the reins to Mariner if Winter got canned, because he could offer a modicum of continuity, and because the fans largely don't seem to lay any responsibility at his feet for our current record. I think Anselmi is shrewd, but I don't think he's a complete moron - what would he have to gain by giving control of the first team to someone with an even lighter resume than Winter, and certainly way lighter than Mariner's?

These moves could also be as simple as getting DeKlerk away from the touch lines, and Winter trying to bring in an assistant with experience playing in MLS, in the wake of the player meeting last week.

- Scott

[Shakes McQueen]

I'm happy with Nicol or Rongen or even Mariner being coach. If Jimmy B. ends up being coach... it will be more than a little upsetting. Why have him when there is experienced talent available? It would reek to the extreme.

If Brennan were handed the head coaching job at any point this season, I have no compunction with saying it would be a new all-time low for the club. I'm not reflexively opposed to him as an assistant, though I have some concerns about what he can really bring to the table. I guess we will see.

- Scott

[Fort York Redcoat]

Guys, this is one big smoke screen. Winter is done, they are just waiting till they get knocked out of Champions League. Then Jimmy will replace him as the interm to the end of the season. I personally think this fucked up and complete and utter bullshit. We are going to fire Winter and replace him with a yes man. He was the rat in the dressing room during the Mo years and is a fucking loser of an individual. Fuck him and TFC if this happens, we as supporters don't need this shit show of team. How can you go from a shit player (most overated player in our history), to assistant GM, to coach of the U17 to now first assistant to Winter??? Maybe FirstWave is still involved with the MLS holdovers. Fuck them all

Just to piss them all off, I hope Winter and the lads goes on a run of 4 wins in 6 and then 8 of twelve with a couple of draws. I hope this backfires in the FO face, cause I have officially had enough.


I'm as critical of the promotion from TFCA2 to Assistant Coach. The fact that it isn't Dichio being promoted a likelier one step than Brennan's two reeks of sacrificial lamb.

The fact you refer to Brennan as shit and most overrated is the height of hyperbole and a runaway bias, though. You're free to have your opinion.

[Section 117]

I'm as critical of the promotion from TFCA2 to Assistant Coach. The fact that it isn't Dichio being promoted a likelier one step than Brennan's two reeks of sacrificial lamb.

The fact you refer to Brennan as shit and most overrated is the height of hyperbole and a runaway bias, though. You're free to have your opinion.

It is not bias because I am not blind to the fact he is Canadian and the first player signed. The difference between Nick Garcia and Jim Brennan is that Nick was actually a good defender in his day. Brenann would never have been captain if he wasnt from here, here was never a leader. He only signed with TFC cause no one else was offering him a contract.

Another thing ask anyone in the know about the inner workings of the squad during the Mo year, who the rat was and he is going to be the next head coach within weeks??? So really it is ok that OUR team is going to be run by him. He is a snake and a back stabbed who got to where he is by first being Mo's rat and then Uncle Tom's as well. I am wondering is he going to coach with the cast on to????

Jim Brennan would never started a game on any MLS team and again I stress this point the only reason there were never multiple threads on him being shit is because he is Canadian. If he was American he would got the same treatment as Wynne, Garcia etc.. He showed heart cause he played hurt, you know what I really don't care cause he cost TFC a hell alot more goals against then going forward. I guess he will teach them his direct style of hoof the ball down the field not possession based like they are supposed to.

To your last comment I have a bias to only one person that has ever played for this team and he was one of the few classy individuals and he was a true proffessional.

[Oldtimer]

^ Every source I read fingered Nick Garcia as Mo's mole.

[brad]

I'm as critical of the promotion from TFCA2 to Assistant Coach. The fact that it isn't Dichio being promoted a likelier one step than Brennan's two reeks of sacrificial lamb.


Jimmy was a fan favorite, and part of me wonders if any part of this move has to with PR - throwing a once popular figure into a more prominent role to try and stir up some goodwill with the ticket holders.

[Fort York Redcoat]

You have to explain to me how he was a rat. The fact he was close to Mo and gave him the mood of the room makes him a rat? Who did he "turn in"? What were they doing wrong they had to be "snitched on"? And why are we talking like TFC is mobbed up?:noidea:

And Brennan was by no means the worst we've had at the back. I think near the end there was just as much "local lad" backlash as anything.

[ensco]

Heheh, Out Damn Spotty Record!

Then again, the Bard's popular because he knew human nature.

Spotty? ... Pretty consistent if you ask me!

I actually was thinking of another bit from Macbeth when I saw this news:

"By the pricking of my thumbs, Something wicked this way comes."

[T-boy]

This is pretty close to my own theory on this reshuffling, although I don't know how much it has to do with Brennan being a "loyal Anselmi guy" (Is he? What body of evidence is that based on?)

I think MLSE would be more likely to give the reins to Mariner if Winter got canned, because he could offer a modicum of continuity, and because the fans largely don't seem to lay any responsibility at his feet for our current record. I think Anselmi is shrewd, but I don't think he's a complete moron - what would he have to gain by giving control of the first team to someone with an even lighter resume than Winter, and certainly way lighter than Mariner's?

These moves could also be as simple as getting DeKlerk away from the touch lines, and Winter trying to bring in an assistant with experience playing in MLS, in the wake of the player meeting last week.

- Scott

I think this is a very good assessment at what has happened.

[Shakes McQueen]

Spotty? ... Pretty consistent if you ask me!

I actually was thinking of another bit from Macbeth when I saw this news:

"By the pricking of my thumbs, Something wicked this way comes."

This made me think of a brilliant new strategy for us to finally score a goal or two - dress the team up as trees, and slowly have them creep towards the opposing goal.

"Macbeth shall never vanquish'd be until / Great Birnam wood to high Dunsinane hill / Shall come against him."

- Scott

[__wowza]

You have to explain to me how he was a rat. The fact he was close to Mo and gave him the mood of the room makes him a rat? Who did he "turn in"? What were they doing wrong they had to be "snitched on"? And why are we talking like TFC is mobbed up?:noidea:

And Brennan was by no means the worst we've had at the back. I think near the end there was just as much "local lad" backlash as anything.

don't you try bringing that reason and logic in here mister!!
i want hearsay goddammit! HEARSAY! BY THE BARREL FULL!

in other news..
Klerk brushed off after insisting “football is war.”



seriously, can this man be any more of a badass?

[bones]

I love how everyone's crystal ball is so effing clear around here. I really gotta get one of those for 6/49.

:)

[Canary10]

To me the real issue is who made this decision. If Anselmi/MLSE made it and dictated on high, then we're in for the same mess we've always had. They've completely undercut Winter's authority as coach as the coach is the one who assembles his own staff. If this is the case, then why not just fire him? It's far more dignified and professional than having your authority slowly stripped away from you in public.

If Winter made the decision than maybe it's not as bad as some us think. I just find it really hard to believe he made the decision.

[Beach_Red]

^ Every source I read fingered Nick Garcia as Mo's mole.

This team has had problems since the beginning - and they extend to today, so it's probably time we stopped looking for scapegoats too far down the chain of command.

From the very beginning TFC was a bunch of inexperienced guys scrambling for jobs they weren't really qualified for - they were like kids in the classroom without the teacher - sure, the kids didn't get any work done but where was the teacher?

It's possible that now Jim Brennan has moved from player to Front Office to coach and will do a good job. He's gained more experience. The biggest problem is the place he got his on the job training.

[ryan]

This is what I suspect is going on:

* Winter and Mariner have been fighting since the start. This has been alluded to in Ives Galarcep's blog since pre-season. We've since had suggestions of people in the front office blocking player moves.

* Winter's team obviously has some talent but goes to 0-8 and there's obvious communication issues, thus the meetings.

* They attempt a quick fix with this move, while also setting up a caretaker in case it doesn't work: Mariner is removed from the front office, so Winter's own guy, who he trusts, can handle player acquisition. At the same time, De Klerk, who is hotheaded but not necessarily a great communicator, is removed from day-to-day coaching of the players, and Brennan is brought in because a) he's played in this league and can relate and b) he's learned to teach the system at the Academy level; as a c) he's a loyal Anselmi guy who can be used as a caretaker if they fire the lot.

What this suggests is that the players still like Winter -- they say he has their back and their his in interviews, which isn't necessary and is only a positive indication -- but he's an absentee GM, not a training level guy. So there's no point, to Anselmi, in firing him. He's the local equivalent of Klinsmann: the face of the club and the guy who makes exec decisions. He's Tom's new insulation (whereas Mo was before).

This move smells of a belief that internal player acquisition issues, combined with poor communication by the field-level coach, were our biggest problems. Mariner is asked to stick around, but in a greatly reduced role -- they're basically making him the strikers' coach. And Anselmi is corporately covered six ways from Sunday: if the system keeps failing, he can fire Winter and Deklerk then and install Brennan temporarily as a "loyal team guy."

If the system turns around, he can take credit for putting DeKlerk into player acquisition and fire Mariner quietly as being extraneous.

Like others have said, I think you're bang on with your analysis of this.


In the end I hope BDK continues to snap shit even in the offices and hoofs Cockring out the window when he tries to make yet another useless fucking personnel move.

[backbeat]

To me the real issue is who made this decision. If Anselmi/MLSE made it and dictated on high, then we're in for the same mess we've always had. They've completely undercut Winter's authority as coach as the coach is the one who assembles his own staff. If this is the case, then why not just fire him? It's far more dignified and professional than having your authority slowly stripped away from you in public.

If Winter made the decision than maybe it's not as bad as some us think. I just find it really hard to believe he made the decision.

^this

except i don't find it hard to believe, other than moving jimmy B in but i'm gathering the thinking is defence. other than that i think it is smart for Winter to move BDK as it implants Winters vision and direction for both player development and scouting for the types of skills he requires and Mariner is still in the fold, although reduced and involved on the pitch with the strikers. As Winter says this will mean he will also be on the pitch more....it strikes me very much as his move..he has more control now.

[Shakes McQueen]

I just find it really hard to believe he made the decision.

Based on what?

- Scott

[Section 117]

What ever I guess you guys all know more about TFC and it's inner workings. Bottom line this move is complete bullshit... Mark my words Jimmy will be the head coach by June barring a complete reversal of fortunes. I hope everyone will be happy that the local lad got the job and we should all cherish it....
:facepalm:

He walked out on the Canadian national team and bad mouth the coach, he walked away as captain what 2-3 games in??? yeah class guy that moron is.

I will not accept this appointment as a smart move or anything even close to that...

[Canary10]

"Based on what?"

MLSE has an ongoing history of meddling in the day to day of the team. That Brennan seems a pretty unusual fit - his football knowledge certainly isn't as strong as BDK's, and his knowledge of the system even less. Maybe he's working miracles at the academy but we haven't heard that. I just can't believe Winter looked at him and said I want that guy on my bench as my right hand man. BDK's new job role sounds made up. "Technical Manager?" It also looks to be inverting the authority stucture I at least thought was in place. So Winter has the authority to shift Mariner's job responsibiliies? That's not how I understood things.

That's pretty thin, I admit, but sometimes the smell test is the best test.

[BHTC Mike]

^ Every source I read fingered Nick Garcia as Mo's mole.
Do you ever stop?

"Every source" were bitter grudge holding message board ranters who took a whispered theory and ASSIGNED that role to Garcia. They still hated him for his diabolical performances at the centre of a very, very bad - we started that year rotating between Kevin Harmse and Marco Velez beside Serioux because Mo spent an absurd amount of Edu allocation collecting DMs! - TFC defense at the end of 2009 that cost us a playoff spot and continued into the first game of 2010 in Columbus. They failed to note that Preki successfully converted him, by MLS standards of the time, into a fairly competent defensive LB who consistently contributed to the only halfway respectable defense TFC ever had.* People knew that he'd been a team mate of Mo and Preki's a decade ago and decided to pin the label on him while consistently ignoring the stories that he was actually popular in the locker room, a really decent guy on a personal level, and a leader on the field DESPITE his cock-ups.

And he took a punch for the team that helped us beat Montreal.

Was there ever a "mole"? Was it Brennan? Should he be assistant coach? Was a single player quote from a deeply divided locker room at the end of 2009 taken out of context and spun into an entire self perpetuating meme? I've got no fucking clue. But let's leave Garcia out of this.

For the 115ers: Niiiick Garciaaaaa BA BA BA!

*Which has now been erased from the story of TFC because it doesn't fit the "under Preki we played the worst" and "TFC never had a defense" narratives.

[Shakes McQueen]

What ever I guess you guys all know more about TFC and it's inner workings. Bottom line this move is complete bullshit... Mark my words Jimmy will be the head coach by June barring a complete reversal of fortunes. I hope everyone will be happy that the local lad got the job and we should all cherish it....
:facepalm:

Er... wha? You're the one who claimed Brennan was a rat for Mo and Anselmi. You're also the one who confidently asserted this was all a smoke screen, and Winter is as good as gone. But it's the rest of us claiming an intimate knowledge of TFC inner workings?

- Scott

[Shakes McQueen]

Do you ever stop?

"Every source" were bitter grudge holding message board ranters who took a whispered theory and ASSIGNED that role to Garcia. They still hated him for his diabolical performances at the centre of a very, very bad - we started that year rotating between Kevin Harmse and Marco Velez beside Serioux because Mo spent an absurd amount of Edu allocation collecting DMs! - TFC defense at the end of 2009 that cost us a playoff spot and continued into the first game of 2010 in Columbus. They failed to note that Preki successfully converted him, by MLS standards of the time, into a fairly competent defensive LB who consistently contributed to the only halfway respectable defense TFC ever had.* People knew that he'd been a team mate of Mo and Preki's a decade ago and decided to pin the label on him while consistently ignoring the stories that he was actually popular in the locker room, a really decent guy on a personal level, and a leader on the field DESPITE his cock-ups.

And he took a punch for the team that helped us beat Montreal.

Was there ever a "mole"? Was it Brennan? Should he be assistant coach? Was a single player quote from a deeply divided locker room at the end of 2009 taken out of context and spun into an entire self perpetuating meme? I've got no fucking clue. But let's leave Garcia out of this.

For the 115ers: Niiiick Garciaaaaa BA BA BA!

*Which has now been erased from the story of TFC because it doesn't fit the "under Preki we played the worst" and "TFC never had a defense" narratives.

Garcia started out as a completely awful defender for TFC, but I agree that by the mid way point in his tenure here, he was more or less competent at his position. Of course, by then, his position as team scapegoat had already been cemented, and people scrutinized every misplay.

I also don't think many people will contest that we played more solid defense under Preki - they will contest that the improved defense came at the expense of any offense. It's easy to hold the line when no one is looking forward to score.

I've still yet to see any actual evidence that Brennan or Garcia were "moles" for anyone, aside from simply assuming it because Garcia and Mo were old teammates, or because people assume Brennan was given his FO gig by Anselmi (which apparently makes him unflinchingly loyal to Anselmi I guess). There's no doubt that the TFC FO has had some serious dysfunction over it's history, but some of the Game of Thrones-esque theorizing, in the absence of corroborating information, gets kind of hilarious.

- Scott

[scooterTFC]

This is what I suspect is going on:

* Winter and Mariner have been fighting since the start. This has been alluded to in Ives Galarcep's blog since pre-season. We've since had suggestions of people in the front office blocking player moves.

* Winter's team obviously has some talent but goes to 0-8 and there's obvious communication issues, thus the meetings.

* They attempt a quick fix with this move, while also setting up a caretaker in case it doesn't work: Mariner is removed from the front office, so Winter's own guy, who he trusts, can handle player acquisition. At the same time, De Klerk, who is hotheaded but not necessarily a great communicator, is removed from day-to-day coaching of the players, and Brennan is brought in because a) he's played in this league and can relate and b) he's learned to teach the system at the Academy level; as a c) he's a loyal Anselmi guy who can be used as a caretaker if they fire the lot.

What this suggests is that the players still like Winter -- they say he has their back and their his in interviews, which isn't necessary and is only a positive indication -- but he's an absentee GM, not a training level guy. So there's no point, to Anselmi, in firing him. He's the local equivalent of Klinsmann: the face of the club and the guy who makes exec decisions. He's Tom's new insulation (whereas Mo was before).

This move smells of a belief that internal player acquisition issues, combined with poor communication by the field-level coach, were our biggest problems. Mariner is asked to stick around, but in a greatly reduced role -- they're basically making him the strikers' coach. And Anselmi is corporately covered six ways from Sunday: if the system keeps failing, he can fire Winter and Deklerk then and install Brennan temporarily as a "loyal team guy."

If the system turns around, he can take credit for putting DeKlerk into player acquisition and fire Mariner quietly as being extraneous.


I tend to agree with your assessment. My first reaction was that these changes signalled management preparing to push Winter out. But after reading all press on deClerk's aggressive personality and outbursts maybe this is actually a savvy political move by Winter to put his loyal 'bull-dog' in the office to bully Cochrane and Mariner into submission. Interesting....

[Section 117]

Er... wha? You're the one who claimed Brennan was a rat for Mo and Anselmi. You're also the one who confidently asserted this was all a smoke screen, and Winter is as good as gone. But it's the rest of us claiming an intimate knowledge of TFC inner workings?

- Scott

Jimmy was Mo rat and also has been... Same agents, any issues he went straight to MO, all of the players knew and it was quite uncofortable in the room because of this. That is what lead to the rift in the change room. Funny looking back it you can stem all of the problems in the locker room to a rift between players and coaches. As a professional the locker room is the safe haven from all of the BS and when you have someone who is a "mole" (sorry for the mob reference in rat) you destabilize the locker room as now no where is safe to vent.

Scott, I normally rarely most multiple times in any thread on this site due to my apathy with the team... If you look at my history of where I post multiple times is because I know something and the truth needs to be out there... Bottom line Jimmy is the next coach, Marnier will be his assistant (which leads to another question how do you go from quasi GM status to helping the strikers as a coach?). I will bet you a pint this goes down before Canada day. Most people have no idea how toxic and retarded that front office is. When Ives tweeted a comparison to our FO to Game of Thrones I think he is spot on as everybody has their own agenda and no one is really pulling in the same direcetion, they just make it seem that way.

[brad]

If I'm not getting posters confused, I'm pretty sure that Section 117 had inside info (locker room source if I recall) back in the MoJo days and broke a fair number of things as a result. If he is the poster I'm thinking of, he's probably accurate on what was happening at the time.

[Beach_Red]

To me the real issue is who made this decision. If Anselmi/MLSE made it and dictated on high, then we're in for the same mess we've always had. They've completely undercut Winter's authority as coach as the coach is the one who assembles his own staff. If this is the case, then why not just fire him? It's far more dignified and professional than having your authority slowly stripped away from you in public.

If Winter made the decision than maybe it's not as bad as some us think. I just find it really hard to believe he made the decision.

It would seem strange to let a guy who's coached a team to 0-8 make a lot of front office decisions. Not that anyone at MLSE can claim any kind of great record, but they will be here long after Winter has left so there has to be an air of being in charge, at least.

But maybe it's all really mutual. Winter had his meeting with Anselmi and the rumour was he was given 4 games to turn it around. One win, one draw and two losses isn't exactly turned around, but it's not terrible, either. So, he didn't get fired, but all is not rosy and some changes were made (that didn't cost anything).

Nothing here is out of character from what has gone on in the past with this team and this organization.

[Whoop]

Do you ever stop?

"Every source" were bitter grudge holding message board ranters who took a whispered theory and ASSIGNED that role to Garcia. They still hated him for his diabolical performances at the centre of a very, very bad - we started that year rotating between Kevin Harmse and Marco Velez beside Serioux because Mo spent an absurd amount of Edu allocation collecting DMs! - TFC defense at the end of 2009 that cost us a playoff spot and continued into the first game of 2010 in Columbus. They failed to note that Preki successfully converted him, by MLS standards of the time, into a fairly competent defensive LB who consistently contributed to the only halfway respectable defense TFC ever had.* People knew that he'd been a team mate of Mo and Preki's a decade ago and decided to pin the label on him while consistently ignoring the stories that he was actually popular in the locker room, a really decent guy on a personal level, and a leader on the field DESPITE his cock-ups.

And he took a punch for the team that helped us beat Montreal.

Was there ever a "mole"? Was it Brennan? Should he be assistant coach? Was a single player quote from a deeply divided locker room at the end of 2009 taken out of context and spun into an entire self perpetuating meme? I've got no fucking clue. But let's leave Garcia out of this.

For the 115ers: Niiiick Garciaaaaa BA BA BA!

*Which has now been erased from the story of TFC because it doesn't fit the "under Preki we played the worst" and "TFC never had a defense" narratives.

Bang on.

Garcia ended up suffering from the Larry Murphy syndrome.

Yeah, he was old and slow and fucked up a few times but from all accounts he was a good teammate and a good leader and the furthest thing from a "mole".

[Canary10]

Nothing here is out of character from what has gone on in the past with this team and this organization.

Therein lies the problem.

[Fort York Redcoat]

but sometimes the smell test is the best test.

This will come in handy this season, unfortunately. Good tip.g:D

[Section 117]

Bang on.

Garcia ended up suffering from the Larry Murphy syndrome.

Yeah, he was old and slow and fucked up a few times but from all accounts he was a good teammate and a good leader and the furthest thing from a "mole".

He got blamed for everything cause he wasn't Canadian... If he was everyone would have made excuses for him like they did with JDG, Brennan etc...

[Suds]

If I'm not getting posters confused, I'm pretty sure that Section 117 had inside info (locker room source if I recall) back in the MoJo days and broke a fair number of things as a result. If he is the poster I'm thinking of, he's probably accurate on what was happening at the time.

I was about to post the same thing. I have no insight to the inner working of TFC but there have been some posters on here who have been accurate on what eventually panned out over the years. Our short history has proven them to be truthful.

There is one thing we do know for sure. Whenever the FO starts tinkering around with this team the end result is usually worse than where they started. I'm losing confidence that anything they do will actually improve this team.

[jabbronies]

For those saying Jimmy B was the problem in the dressing room causing that rift, please remember there was more than one side to that rift. He was the leader on one of those sides, not the only problem. I;m not sticking up for the guy, but to think he was the ONLY one causing shit is blind.

The question you have to ask yourself is, was he on the right side of the argument. If he was really buddying up with Mo, I would say he was on the wrong side of things. But now, if he is buddying up with Mariner..do you still think he has the wrong mentality and thought process? Jimmy B looks out for one persons interests - Jimmy B's. He may have just been using Mo to get what he wanted, which at the end of the day was a job in the management.

Also - those who think he abandoned the CMNT - again, was he really on the wrong for doing so? I say yes, never abandon your teammates, but at the end of the day he was on the verge of retiring and as we all know the CMNT is a joke. Does someone who has spent a great deal of his career representing his country really need to end his career in the circus that is the CMNT?

The guy is a snake for sure I agree. I just hope he can stop thinking about himself and start thinking about the what's best for the team. Sounds like he did well with the U-17 team. Can anyone confirm that?

Also - Can anyone speak to Paul Hart from Nottingham Forrest? That s who Jimmy lists as a mentor. Would love to know what his style is like.

[Beach_Red]

Therein lies the problem.

Well, we're consistent. Like Whoop says, Nick Garcia suffered the Larry Murphy fate (we just didn't have to see him lifting the cup with another team).

How come we aren't asking why a team is so poorly run it needs a mole? Why aren't we asking how come the team is structured so that everyone is paranoid and more worried about their teammates, coaches and managers than about the other teams? Ives called it Game of Thrones, MLSE has been referred to for years as Medici-like - it's not even an uncommon environment, it's just usually something in government offices or places like the CBC, anywhere the main goal isn't the same for everyone. It's not all about winning, the board of directors don't care about the game, but you need job security and you get that through relationships and loyalties.

When I first started following TFC on these boards people were very insistent that they weren't "Leafs nation" style fans. I think MLSE has figured out that enough are.

[joeyjones]

He walked out on the Canadian national team and bad mouth the coach, he walked away as captain what 2-3 games in??? yeah class guy that moron is.

are you referring to when Preki forced him to retire? only to have no one at left back for the rest of the season?

[Shakes McQueen]

He got blamed for everything cause he wasn't Canadian... If he was everyone would have made excuses for him like they did with JDG, Brennan etc...

Give me a break. He became a scapegoat because he was legitimately terrible for a long strong of games at first, and directly responsible for more than one loss (more than once by putting the ball in our own net).

People gave JDG the benefit of the doubt for a while, because he had an impeccable playing pedigree - how about now? Nearly everyone has turned on him. Brennan got somewhat of a pass from most people because a) the support around the club wasn't completely toxic yet when he played, and b) he was the first signing, and the first Canadian in the club's history. Personally, I agree with you that he was overrated as an MLS player (specifically), and as a captain. I've brought it up before.

But saying Garcia got run out of town for not being Canadian, is just selective memory. Gerba, JDG, Harmse - all scorned as players, despite being Canadian. Or how about the 800lb. gorilla in the room? Dwayne De Rosario. Arguably the most talented player we've ever had on our team, yet a large contingent of the fans soured on him over all of the contract drama.

Brennan is the only Canadian player in our history who I'd agree got somewhat of a pass, partially based on his being Canadian. But it had more to do with romanticized feelings towards him because he was our first signing, our first captain, and our first Canadian. Aside from him, I just think you're flat out wrong.

- Scott

[Fort York Redcoat]

He got blamed for everything cause he wasn't Canadian... If he was everyone would have made excuses for him like they did with JDG, Brennan etc...

Garcia was the only Non-Canadian on the team? I don't remember that..

Your broadstroke generalizations tainted with a serious dose of personal vitriol for the man raises more questions with every answer you're trying to give.

[Section 117]

are you referring to when Preki forced him to retire? only to have no one at left back for the rest of the season?


FYI no one forced him to retire.... He retired on his own. Anyone that tells you otherwise has no clue on what happened.

[Fort York Redcoat]

The guy is a snake for sure I agree. I just hope he can stop thinking about himself and start thinking about the what's best for the team. Sounds like he did well with the U-17 team. Can anyone confirm that?



Let me preface I haven't got to see one game of the TFCA2 but I have heard from a fellow member that the team was not doing as well as the top Accies squad. That's not to say he may have some qualities the senior management like.

[Section 117]

Guys, you are missing my point about being Canadian... We give more slack to Canadians then anyone else who are we trying to kid... My point being was he (Garcia) was not as bad as we made him out to be. And yet Jimmy who was horrible got a free pass is my point. I am speaking about defenders and the issued we had in the back as we have had for the last 6 years.

Brennan was never in the correct position, hoofed the ball everytime he got it and was utter shit, but because a) He is Canadian b) First sigining and c) captain he got a pass. which is bullshit and now he is on the verge of being coach as technically he is second incommand. Yeah that is who I want coach my team...

[Phil]

FYI no one forced him to retire.... He retired on his own. Anyone that tells you otherwise has no clue on what happened.

Brenan had wanted to retire before Preki was annouced as head coach but didn't. Right now I am going to buckle up and watch the fireworks, not too sure what to make of all this right now.

[joeyjones]

FYI no one forced him to retire.... He retired on his own. Anyone that tells you otherwise has no clue on what happened.

ok, what happened?

[Fort York Redcoat]

Guys, you are missing my point about being Canadian... We give more slack to Canadians then anyone else who are we trying to kid... My point being was he (Garcia) was not as bad as we made him out to be. And yet Jimmy who was horrible got a free pass is my point.

Brennan was never in the correct position, hoofed the ball everytime he got it and was utter shit, but because a) He is Canadian b) First sigining and c) captain he got a pass. which is bullshit and now he is on the verge of being coach as technically he is second incommand. Yeah that is who I want coach my team...

"Never", "everytime"- poor choice of words when trying to illustrate how poor a player can be.

Brennan got special treatment because he was a local lad. FACT. That is how it should and will always be. But nowhere near to the extent you are trying to make it. I forgive foreign players for mistakes if I like the way they play. There is no point in demonizing our own. Admitting we have a soft spot for does in no way mean that we should spend more than we should on these players.

I'll hold to my view that I want an entirely Canadian side made up of players that are good enough and on the whole taking a paycut to play in front of their old neighbours.

[jabbronies]

Let me preface I haven't got to see one game of the TFCA2 but I have heard from a fellow member that the team was not doing as well as the top Accies squad. That's not to say he may have some qualities the senior management like.

I've been thinking about it and it is quiet possible that Winter made these changes.

Another theory is that Winter finally realized the full on Dutch system wasn't working in MLS. So he brings a former MLS player and former MLS assistant up to help him mesh the Dutch style with MLS style to create a new hybrid of football. lets call it DMLS - Dutch flare, skill and tactics with MLS agression.

He drops his Dutch assistant down to make sure that all academy players and players being scouted are being properly trained in the system they want to execute. Basically Winter's eyes and ears are now with the academy system. So he knows for sure that at all levels, system is being taught. So now Rongen and BDK are working towards this DMLS

[Shakes McQueen]

Guys, you are missing my point about being Canadian... We give more slack to Canadians then anyone else who are we trying to kid... My point being was he (Garcia) was not as bad as we made him out to be. And yet Jimmy who was horrible got a free pass is my point. I am speaking about defenders and the issued we had in the back as we have had for the last 6 years.

Brennan was never in the correct position, hoofed the ball everytime he got it and was utter shit, but because a) He is Canadian b) First sigining and c) captain he got a pass. which is bullshit and now he is on the verge of being coach as technically he is second incommand. Yeah that is who I want coach my team...

I'm not missing your point at all - I don't agree with it. Brennan was given slack, partly for being Canadian, but he was the sole exception.

And if you're specifically talking about Brennan, then don't make statements like "We give more slack to Canadians then anyone else who are we trying to kid". We don't. We gave more slack to Jim Brennan specifically, for several reasons, only one of which had to do with his being Canadian.

- Scott

[Section 117]

"Never", "everytime"- poor choice of words when trying to illustrate how poor a player can be.

Brennan got special treatment because he was a local lad. FACT. That is how it should and will always be. But nowhere near to the extent you are trying to make it. I forgive foreign players for mistakes if I like the way they play. There is no point in demonizing our own. Admitting we have a soft spot for does in no way mean that we should spend more than we should on these players.

I'll hold to my view that I want an entirely Canadian side made up of players that are good enough and on the whole taking a paycut to play in front of their old neighbours.


OK let's agree to disagree on this one as I personally don't care where the players come from as long as they play their asses off and win period. TFC should be about winning nothing else. If the by product of winning means we develop Canadians great if not I really dont care.

[Section 117]

I'm not missing your point at all - I don't agree with it. Brennan was given slack, partly for being Canadian, but he was the sole exception.

And if you're specifically talking about Brennan, then don't make statements like "We give more slack to Canadians then anyone else who are we trying to kid". We don't. We gave more slack to Jim Brennan specifically, for several reasons, only one of which had to do with his being Canadian.

- Scott

Then what you are saying is being the first signing and captain had nothing to do with him being canadian???? it is all intertwined. I stand by my beliefs that most supporters are easier on Canadians then other players. Many suppoerts will disagree with my point, but we over value the contributions of all over players especially Canadian ones.

[backbeat]

OK let's agree to disagree on this one as I personally don't care where the players come from as long as they play their asses off and win period. TFC should be about winning nothing else. If the by product of winning means we develop Canadians great if not I really dont care.

i disagree with that - i agree we need to win and soon, but i think it is important how we win i.e. style and i think it is paramount that we develop canadian players - that is, to me, a major plus of having Canadian MLS teams and academy investment.

[Shakes McQueen]

Then what you are saying is being the first signing and captain had nothing to do with him being canadian???? it is all intertwined. I stand by my beliefs that most supporters are easier on Canadians then other players. Many suppoerts will disagree with my point, but we over value the contributions of all over players especially Canadian ones.

Then we circle back to when I provided several examples of Canadian players who were NOT cut any slack, and you replied by saying we were missing your point, then brought up Brennan again. Canadians and non-Canadians alike have been scapegoated, disliked, and run out of town on this team.

- Scott

[denime]

are you referring to when Preki forced him to retire? only to have no one at left back for the rest of the season?
No,he meant when Brennan walked out from CMNT 2-3 games into WCQ,and he probably ment when Brennan was the.one of ring leaders to get rid of the best coach CMNT ever had,Olgier Osciek.Brennan was the one bitching to CSA and eventualy he won.Brennan is terible as TFCA2 coach,I know the kid that went back to his old team after few weeks,same kid spent already some time oversees and he knows how good practice looks like,Brennan sucked as academy coach and now he is suppose to coach senior team,yeah right?
As a player he never played that system and he is suppose to teach the kids and now pros too,I don't think so,he is there as MLSE mole and future replacement for Winter,god help us if he ends up as Head coach.

I don't like the idea,let's hope it's for the best,but I doubt it.

Let's hope for 4-5 wins in a row,just to fuck our own FO and shitcaps too od course.

[T-boy]

FYI no one forced him to retire.... He retired on his own. Anyone that tells you otherwise has no clue on what happened.

This forum always appears to have a load of people who "know exactly what happened" - but they never say how they know something, or if they've "heard from a friend of a friend who knows Aron Winter's dog trainer" or whoever else.

Although I believe things are never as clear cut as they seem, I always take it with a pinch of salt on this forum when somebody says they have certain "inside information" that nobody else knows.

No offense to you, or anybody else who says things like that.