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Pookie
05-11-2012, 10:23 AM
I was asked to re-run this comparison of league wide ticket prices by vantage point with 2012 data.

We pay way too much for our tickets.

To give you an idea as to how far out of whack TFC tickets are relative to the league, I took a look at season ticket pricing per game across the league relative to the vantage point of the seat. I then took an average price and compared that with what TFC charges "the most loyal fans in the game." Given that vantage points and pricing models vary across the league, these numbers are to be taken as generalization. I didn't bother to include Field Side Tables or other VIP seating as those prices are ridiculous across the board. Lastly, note that while the numbers have not been vetted by an auditor down to the penny, I am presenting them so that we can draw some discussion points from what they suggest.



A TFC fan who has purchased a pair of seats in BMO Field's "Club" section, which are Centre Line seats with "Club" access behind the players benches, pays $920 more per year than the MLS average
What does $746 get you? That's the extra price you pay for a pair of season tickets in center line seats (non-club section) over the average MLS price.
Those sitting off of Centre Line at BMO field (Dark Greys) pay $739 more for a pair of seats than the MLS average.
Those seeking a bargin by moving to the corners will find that if they were in another MLS city, they might pay $494 less for a pair in that vantage point.
The "new" North Stand, once trumpeted as a section for the fans that couldn't get access has apparently been priced so as to restrict access. It costs $438 more than the MLS average for seats in this section.
And lastly, the Supporters. This is the group that has been used in countless marketing campaigns in order to sell "atmosphere." What is their special honour? They get to pay $236 more per year for a pair of seats than the average MLS supporter.


Feels good doesn't it?


2012 Data




Team
Club
Centre Line
Off Center
Corners
North Stand
Supporters


Houston
$1,825
$900
$700
$400
$550
$250


Toronto
$1,600
$1,083
$988
$684
$589
$399


RSL
$1,500
$900
$750
$565
$360
$250


Vancouver
$1,482
$832
$505
$505
$420
$277


Seattle
$1,432
$768
$768
$432
$342
$342


SKC
$1,400
$660
$700
$600
$380
$260


FC Dallas
$1,314
$954
$684
$306
$306
$241


Philly
$1,278
$756
$612
$432
$360
$324


NY
$1,100
$920
$720
$400
$360
$320


Chicago
$999
$600
$600
$400
$220
$199


NE Revolution
$972
$540
$432
$324
$432
$252


SJ
$840
$640
$420
$320
$280
$280


DC United
$803
$617
$446
$344
$344
$344


Colorado
$629
$476
$544
$357
$357
$238


Columbus
$560
$364
$336
$252
$266
$238


Chivas
$504
$504
$306
$252
$162
$162


LA

$1,160
$1,000
$850
$560
$400











Average
$1,140
$746
$618
$437
$370
$281


TFC
$1,600
$1,083
$988
$684
$589
$399


Difference
$460
$337
$370
$247
$219
$118


Pair Difference
$920.2
$674.94
$739.41
$494.7
$438.24
$236.12





* not an exact science as renewal pricing and multi-year renewals also impact pricing. Some generalizations made

Joe Kool
05-11-2012, 11:51 AM
In comes Anselmi with "it's supply and demand" a couple years ago when asked about it but that doesn't really hold anymore. There is little demand and lots of supply these days. Just ask any STH that needed to sell a pair....even in supporter's sections which at one time was completely unheard of. With all the supply I am definitely re-thinking my season seats this year especially when the 2012 price freeze goes away. The ball is in their court when it comes to me renewing. Money talks...

ryan
05-11-2012, 11:53 AM
MLSE has the balls to raise prices, so I'm expecting it. My poor account rep, I'm going to give him hell.

Whoop
05-11-2012, 12:09 PM
We pay way too much for our tickets.


LOL

This is old news.

Question is does TFC LOWER prices especially if the team misses the playoffs? I would think even if they lower prices renewals won't be great next year.

Whoop
05-11-2012, 12:11 PM
Can you imagine if they raise prices this year? LOL

Remember this is the last year of the price freeze.

nfitz
05-11-2012, 12:15 PM
I was asked to re-run this comparison of league wide ticket prices by vantage point with 2012 data.The analysis is interesting, but I'm not sure about some of the numbers.


I

Team
Club
Centre Line
Off Center
Corners
North Stand
Supporters











Toronto
$1,600
$1,083
$988
$684
$589
$399











Supporters (yellow) was $361 this year. Not sure why you have the light-grey corners in at $684 - they are $399.

How did you factor number of games, which is 19 here, but 17 at some other stadiums? And includes other things, at others? (applying a simple 17/19 to our price this year should deal with that).

I think this type of examination is quite interesting, and well worth doing. But should make sure that the data is clean, and avoids bias. Yes, I think it will show we are expensive. But also compare how many seasons they sell here to elsewhere ... supply and demand is a huge factor.

sidvan
05-11-2012, 01:02 PM
For the Vancouver game in Champs league -http://dealoftheday.redflagdeals.com/deal/toronto/toronto-fc-voyageurs-cup?redirectUrl=deal%2Ftoronto%2Ftoronto-fc-voyageurs-cup%26utm_source%3Di%26utm_campaign%3Dda3%26utm_me dium%3Demail%26blastID%3D506921%26rcpEmail%3Ddellb rk%40gmail.com&utm_source=i&utm_campaign=da3&utm_medium=email&blastID=506921&rcpEmail=dellbrk%40gmail.com&showSplashPopup=true discounts

Whoop
05-11-2012, 01:10 PM
I'm beginning to think someone works for the team.

kodiakTFC
05-11-2012, 01:10 PM
For the Vancouver game in Champs league -http://dealoftheday.redflagdeals.com/deal/toronto/toronto-fc-voyageurs-cup?redirectUrl=deal%2Ftoronto%2Ftoronto-fc-voyageurs-cup%26utm_source%3Di%26utm_campaign%3Dda3%26utm_me dium%3Demail%26blastID%3D506921%26rcpEmail%3Ddellb rk%40gmail.com&utm_source=i&utm_campaign=da3&utm_medium=email&blastID=506921&rcpEmail=dellbrk%40gmail.com&showSplashPopup=true discounts

The demand for single game tickets has certainly dropped. In my opinion, albeit uninformed, I think you'll see MLSE freeze the prices once more.

EDIT: Not for Champs league btw ;)

Whoop
05-11-2012, 01:13 PM
I think a lot of people, being unable to sell their tickets this season (and last year) in the south end, are just eating the cost and not using them. At some point instead of eating the cost, they'll just stop buying.

I remember when the Ticket Trader section of this board was one of the most popular parts of the boards... now, not so much.

Pookie
05-11-2012, 01:56 PM
The analysis is interesting, but I'm not sure about some of the numbers.

[FONT=inherit]Supporters (yellow) was $361 this year. Not sure why you have the light-grey corners in at $684 - they are $399.

How did you factor number of games, which is 19 here, but 17 at some other stadiums? And includes other things, at others? (applying a simple 17/19 to our price this year should deal with that).

I think this type of examination is quite interesting, and well worth doing. But should make sure that the data is clean, and avoids bias. Yes, I think it will show we are expensive. But also compare how many seasons they sell here to elsewhere ... supply and demand is a huge factor.



I couldn't use renewal pricing in this comparison as teams don't always publish renewal discounts. Further, teams like Seattle offer discounts if you commit for multiple years. So the price you see for all teams, including TFC is what a new seat holder would pay. Club seats for TFC are an estimate based on the club fee assigned per seat.

I did work out the per game pricing. That said, it too is hard to keep "clean." For example, some teams like LA offer 17 MLS games and 3 Bonus games, which include MLS playoff games. Is our Canadian Championship game (this year vs MTL) the same value as a playoff game?

Other teams also include a variety of options with their season tickets. All you can eat concessions. Free annual parking. A ticket exchange program which actually works as an exchange. If I have 2 unused tickets, I can exchange them for extra seats to games I can go to. Pricing for kids. Discount pricing for friends of a season seat holder. Better than 15% off merchandise. Hard to assign a value to all of that as some of those expenses are optional for us.

Best to look at these as a general picture and ensure that debate over team performance aside, our prices are out of whack. Supply and demand ceases to be a reason to keep prices where they are when 3,000 tickets go unsold for games and Center Line seats are sparsely attended.

spe18
05-11-2012, 02:27 PM
And check out this "Family Pack" deal the Colorado Rapids have going! This is quite the deal!!!!

http://www.tickethorse.com/Promotions.aspx?id=vYFtaPm0iMc%3d

trane
05-11-2012, 02:36 PM
Why should we not have the most expesnive tickets, after all we are the best team in Canada.

spe18
05-11-2012, 02:42 PM
Oh, and btw - to add fuel to the fire......check out the prices LA is charge for the game vs. Real Madrid (especially for current STH)!

http://www.lagalaxy.com/realmadrid/tickets

MartinUtd
05-11-2012, 02:43 PM
You know what I did instead of renewing my season tickets this year? I bought plane tickets to LA and Seattle and still had money left over to cover a majority of the hotel accommodations.

It might have been a harder decision if the idiots at the FO didn't act so cocky about their product. That includes the ticket reps too.

Oldtimer
05-11-2012, 02:51 PM
... at least TFC is leading the league in something other than goals allowed. :D

trane
05-11-2012, 02:55 PM
^ We are alos leading the league in losses. So that makes 3 categories in which we are tops.

__wowza
05-11-2012, 03:11 PM
I think a lot of people, being unable to sell their tickets this season (and last year) in the south end, are just eating the cost and not using them. At some point instead of eating the cost, they'll just stop buying.

I remember when the Ticket Trader section of this board was one of the most popular parts of the boards... now, not so much.

last year i was able to attend 8 separate matches for free from board members giving away their tickets.
so there's that.

Whoop
05-11-2012, 03:12 PM
Oh, and btw - to add fuel to the fire......check out the prices LA is charge for the game vs. Real Madrid (especially for current STH)!

http://www.lagalaxy.com/realmadrid/tickets

It's the exchange rate! LOL

Whoop
05-11-2012, 03:14 PM
last year i was able to attend 8 separate matches for free from board members giving away their tickets.
so there's that.

And I think most of would have rather gotten face for it, but sometimes it's more of a hassle than just not using the ttickets.

I mean 112!!! is not full on most match days. I remember when it would be overflowing with people.

Jack
05-11-2012, 03:17 PM
I waited until the last day to renew my tickets this season. It was no longer an automatic decision and I thought long and hard about the renewal.

The price was a major consideration. Even though I know that a pair of seats in 112 would get snapped up and not be a big loss for them, it would mean two less tickets sold elsewhere.

trane
05-11-2012, 03:20 PM
^ I did not renew for 2011, and I was going to pick some up for 2013. But now, I am not sure.

Pookie
05-11-2012, 03:27 PM
They always say that winning will cure everything. Grain of truth to it but a very small grain.

They have out priced the market, IMO.

brad
05-11-2012, 03:51 PM
They always say that winning will cure everything. Grain of truth to it but a very small grain.

They have out priced the market, IMO.

They could be right - but that cure seems about as close as the cure for the common cold....

Nice numbers btw. I'm already letting mine go at the end of the year. They no longer represent a good value when the market is flooded with below cost (and free) tickets. I can't use all my tickets and no one will buy them.

The fact that I like where I sit and the people around me is the only reason I kept them last year. However there are so many empty seats in my section every game I can just pick up tickets anywhere and go sit in my section near my seats.

__wowza
05-11-2012, 03:59 PM
And I think most of would have rather gotten face for it, but sometimes it's more of a hassle than just not using the ttickets.

I mean 112!!! is not full on most match days. I remember when it would be overflowing with people.

what you said. a lot of people would want to have someone there who wants to see the game, sing and go mental, even if they can't afford to do it. im not cheap by any means (i would normally repay in pre or post game beer/smuggled in booze) , just broke.

speaking of which, i owe you a beer jack!

Hitcho
05-11-2012, 04:35 PM
I think absent a material price reduction, I won't be renewing next year. I cannot get to all the games, which is fine if you can sell on some of the tickets (and not even for face value, just a contirbution towards SSH cost would be fine), but these days you literally cannot give tickets away for some games. Check out the ticket trader - by the day before the game, people are offering tickets for free that are not being taken. Based on Anselmi's supply and demand theory, the cost of season tickets should drop next year, but I suspect that it will go up.

Any increase - any increase at all - and I will likely drop my four tickets (which I have had since late 2006).

Roogsy
05-11-2012, 04:44 PM
Oh, and btw - to add fuel to the fire......check out the prices LA is charge for the game vs. Real Madrid (especially for current STH)!

http://www.lagalaxy.com/realmadrid/tickets


http://puppsfreestuff.com/files/AladdinGenieJawDrop8fSM.gif

You have GOT to be shitting me!

glaze
05-11-2012, 08:56 PM
They always say that winning will cure everything. Grain of truth to it but a very small grain.

They have out priced the market, IMO.

They have outpriced the market. As mentioned by many others, Ive had to eat a pair this year, in supporters, and probably will again. I'll stay on topic and just make points about the price. Mainly that Toronto sports teams have this concept of premium pricing, because of the Leafs. It is a foreign idea for them to offer any kind of family pack as other markets do for their teams.
The main place this is all visible is the good seats you can see on tv. In basketball the lower bowl, same applies for the Jays. If you go to a basketball game, the cheap seats seem pretty full, because thats all anyone can afford on a family outing. In the jays, there is always a decent crowd in the outfield, because the baselines cost about 40 bucks now. And the Argos are just complete write-off.

But the flip side is, the club offers a deal (like that tfc wagjag/travelzoo thing), and the SSH holders get annoyed. The only logical answer is a price reduction that reflects the product. But I think the odds are better of us making the playoffs this year than MLSE lowering their prices.

That said, they could save face by offering some food vouchers, more giveaways, special events. Something to feel that youre getting value added. Or even better, they could just start contending.

SoccMan
05-11-2012, 09:17 PM
It does not look good going forward for this team, I wonder what kind of attendances we can expect next year. I will venture a guess and say that crowds like we saw on Wednesday night will most likely be the norm next season, they announced 15,000, however, if there were more than 8,000 on Wednesday night I would be surprised.

ManUtd4ever
05-11-2012, 09:59 PM
Based on the club's current trajectory in the standings, TFC will be hard pressed to surpass 10,000 STH renewals next season, regardless of whether MLSE offers a discount or not.

Nestease
05-12-2012, 01:02 AM
There's also tons of incentives around the league. Just skimming through websites I was able to find these:

Chicago Fire


One free STH Lot Parking Pass for every 2 Full Seasons Tickets purchased (Premier and Corner Kick full STHs only)
STH Card gets you (Saturday Matches - $2 Popcorn, Sunday Matches - $2 Soda, Wednesday Matches - $2 Hotdog)


Chivas USA

Parking discount for Season ticket holders


Colorado Rapids

Parking included with price of any ticket.


Columbus Crew

Pepsi-Crew Value Pack - $22 per person. With this package you get a ticket to the game, Pepsi product, hot dog, small popcorn and a coupon for a FREE 2-liter. 5 remaining games to choose from.


D.C. UNITED


May 16 is $5 Bud Light day.
May 26 is Kids Day. Tickets, Hot Dogs and Soda when you buy 2 tickets.
June 30 is College Night. Tickets are $20.
Sept 15 is College Night. Tickets are $20.


FC Dallas

Free parking for Season Ticket Holders.


LA Galaxy

Student Night (2 Games to choose from). Get 1 ticket for $15 (Upper Reserved) or $25 (Endline)
Aug 2 Real Madrid STH Prices $25-$72 ($200 for Fieldside)


New England Revolution


College student Season Tickets. $99 for full season.
Free Parking
Family Four Pack (4 Tickets, 4 hot Dogs or Pizza Slices, 4 Sodas, 4 Popcorns)


Philadelphia Union


Season Ticket Holder Parking Pass


San Jose Earthquakes

$1 unlimited hot dogs on Wednesdays.


Sporting Kansas City

Free Parking for Season Ticket Holders.

Rene Kingsriver
05-12-2012, 05:45 AM
Why should we not have the most expesnive tickets, after all we are the best team in Canada.

:smilielol5:nice one trane

torontocelt
05-12-2012, 06:58 AM
without higher season ticket prices we would struggle to be able to pay the wages of deguzman or winter for that matter so it is hard to get upset at the mlse.

Cashcleaner
05-12-2012, 07:24 AM
I'm always leery when people mention how winning would change our attitudes toward ticket prices and other costs. It implies that we'll gladly pay more once the team starts performing well. The danger with that line of thinking is obvious - given how much we've had to pay thus far for an underachieving Toronto FC, how much do you think we'll be charged if the club actually starts making the playoffs on a regular basis?

We need to shift our collective mentality away from equating performance with pricing and instead look at what other clubs in the league are charging and offering their Season Ticket Holders. Pookie and Nestease, you guys totally need to get together and present your info to the crowd at the next Town Hall. People need to understand just how much other MLS fans are paying for their tickets in addition to what perks or discounts they receive as well.

Pookie
05-12-2012, 07:55 AM
Thanks for reprinting nestease.

LA game vs Real Madrid is interesting. I'll do you be better. Seattle's game vs Chelsea? Free for season ticket holders as it was included in their package, same as last year's friendly vs Manchester United.

Rene Kingsriver
05-12-2012, 07:56 AM
without higher season ticket prices we would struggle to be able to pay the wages of deguzman or winter for that matter so it is hard to get upset at the mlse.

:smilielol5:

canadian_bhoy
05-12-2012, 08:01 AM
I think they owe it to the fans for prices to come down. Some games, they should be paying the fans to show up.
And when I say "owe it", I don't mean that they should be nice buddies and hook us up - I mean that if they want this club to be around in 10 years, they should do the smart thing and dokeep whatever's left of their loyal fanbase.

Pookie
05-12-2012, 08:09 AM
I'm always leery when people mention how winning would change our attitudes toward ticket prices and other costs. It implies that we'll gladly pay more once the team starts performing well. The danger with that line of thinking is obvious - given how much we've had to pay thus far for an underachieving Toronto FC, how much do you think we'll be charged if the club actually starts making the playoffs on a regular basis?

We need to shift our collective mentality away from equating performance with pricing and instead look at what other clubs in the league are charging and offering their Season Ticket Holders. Pookie and Nestease, you guys totally need to get together and present your info to the crowd at the next Town Hall. People need to understand just how much other MLS fans are paying for their tickets in addition to what perks or discounts they receive as well.

You are completely correct. Winning games does not change the collective disposable incomes of the grass roots fan base. We should remember that the first year sell outs were largely based on sales to soccer clubs, university students and families. Nt to say that a lawyer with no kids didn't pick up a pair but there weren't many corporations on board.

I still recall a conversation in 2009 with an exec who said that TFC tickets were going to be priced similar to Leaf tickets. There, fans pool their resources and split the games. The idea that 3 friends, who used to go individually, would now put their money together for 6 games each was in full effect.

The plan was simply to sell the same seat at a higher price, which may have meant a different fan profile or squeezing the ones they had.

People think that The City and MLSE split the revenue on these games. While true, the split on ticket revenue is 93% in favour of MLSE. They only keep 25% of concessions. Ticket revenue thus becomes the focus.

As for presenting it, I have spoken with both Tom and Paul directly about my concerns regarding ticket prices. I am making it a recurring focus for my blog on Sportsnet and am happy to get behind any SG movement to bring attention to the issue.

Dave67
05-12-2012, 01:44 PM
I think absent a material price reduction, I won't be renewing next year. I cannot get to all the games, which is fine if you can sell on some of the tickets (and not even for face value, just a contirbution towards SSH cost would be fine), but these days you literally cannot give tickets away for some games. Check out the ticket trader - by the day before the game, people are offering tickets for free that are not being taken. Based on Anselmi's supply and demand theory, the cost of season tickets should drop next year, but I suspect that it will go up.

Any increase - any increase at all - and I will likely drop my four tickets (which I have had since late 2006).

A combination of cash flow problems and a belief my tickets were overpriced had me not renewing this year. I fully intended on going to games this year on a game by game basis. In reality I have been to 0 games at BMO this year. Now that I don't have the physical tickets sitting in my house I don't make a point of reserving game days on my calendar. So game days get filled with other things, friends, family.

The real truth is it's harder to get an ex customer to come back than it is to keep your current ones happy. It's an obvious truth, but it is one the front office ignores every year. Once you let your seasons go it's easy to lounge back on the sofa and watch the game on TV.

As for the post above which mentions what other clubs do TFC will quickly mention that they have no control over the parking at BMO. In my opinion they are uncreative and have had it too easy this far. It's like they have meetings on what to do for incentives and just say 'hey we can't do anything about the parking' then end the meeting and walk out.

Davenport
05-12-2012, 01:55 PM
Goofy prices for Mickey Mouse football.

English Championship average prices for this last season: If you are a new season ticket holder willing to sit in the cheapest seats in the house the average cost of a new season ticket at a Championship club now stands at just over £400. That's $640 for 23 home games. $30 per game.

Yeoman
05-12-2012, 02:01 PM
LOL

This is old news.

Question is does TFC LOWER prices especially if the team misses the playoffs? I would think even if they lower prices renewals won't be great next year.

Prices had crept too high over the past few years. We’ve been rebuilding our team and we’ve had some erosion of our fan base. So I’d rather sell 100 tickets at 10 bucks than 10 tickets at 100 bucks.
-Tom Anselmi

on the raptors

Yohan
05-12-2012, 02:36 PM
Hopefully the scalpers will ditch a lot of tix

Alonso
05-12-2012, 03:00 PM
Hopefully the scalpers will ditch a lot of tix


They've been looking pretty desperate out there these days. My guess is they are dumping tickets big time.

Whoop
05-12-2012, 08:32 PM
I'm always leery when people mention how winning would change our attitudes toward ticket prices and other costs. It implies that we'll gladly pay more once the team starts performing well. The danger with that line of thinking is obvious - given how much we've had to pay thus far for an underachieving Toronto FC, how much do you think we'll be charged if the club actually starts making the playoffs on a regular basis?

We need to shift our collective mentality away from equating performance with pricing and instead look at what other clubs in the league are charging and offering their Season Ticket Holders. Pookie and Nestease, you guys totally need to get together and present your info to the crowd at the next Town Hall. People need to understand just how much other MLS fans are paying for their tickets in addition to what perks or discounts they receive as well.

Exactly.

The thought is fine, we'll keep the price freeze on or even lower tickets but once the team starts winning we'll raise prices.

But like skint said, once you lose a customer it's hard to get him back and right now they aren't gaining any new customers either.

brad
05-12-2012, 09:04 PM
As for presenting it, I have spoken with both Tom and Paul directly about my concerns regarding ticket prices. I am making it a recurring focus for my blog on Sportsnet and am happy to get behind any SG movement to bring attention to the issue.

What was their response?

brad
05-12-2012, 09:06 PM
As for the post above which mentions what other clubs do TFC will quickly mention that they have no control over the parking at BMO. In my opinion they are uncreative and have had it too easy this far. It's like they have meetings on what to do for incentives and just say 'hey we can't do anything about the parking' then end the meeting and walk out.

Exactly what they will say. To which my response would be - there are plenty of places I take my business to that have no control over parking in the surrounding area that reimburse me for parking when I spend my money with them.

brad
05-12-2012, 09:10 PM
Goofy prices for Mickey Mouse football.

English Championship average prices for this last season: If you are a new season ticket holder willing to sit in the cheapest seats in the house the average cost of a new season ticket at a Championship club now stands at just over £400. That's $640 for 23 home games. $30 per game.

Comparing prices of anything in Canada to Britan is pretty pointless IMHO. Whoever said up-thread that we should be looking at other MLS venues for comparisons. And Anselmi has said in the past (paraphrasing here as I don't remember the exact words) that you can't compare the value of something like a ticket in Toronto to a lot of the other MLS markets. I'd agree that Toronto vs Columbus or Salt Lake City is probably irrelevant, but Toronto more expensive than NY or LA is highly relevant, and ridiculous.

brad
05-12-2012, 09:11 PM
Prices had crept too high over the past few years. We’ve been rebuilding our team and we’ve had some erosion of our fan base. So I’d rather sell 100 tickets at 10 bucks than 10 tickets at 100 bucks.
-Tom Anselmi

on the raptors

Dichio sized banner for the southend with the quote above?

Pookie
05-13-2012, 08:23 AM
@brad - given that the league owns all the teams, pricing against other MLS markets is relevant IMHO. As an example, Subway puts a lot of money into brand image. It requires its owner-operators to follow the plan and when someone walks into a Subway in Seattle or in Toronto, you generally expect a similar offering. While the prices may be local, they are fairly consistent. You aren't going to be paying $5 for a sub in one place and $15 for the same sub in another. Consistency is key to retaining customers and ensuring that the national advertising and support network for franchise-operators is maximized. Otherwise, folks in Toronto will stop going to Subway and that will hurt the profits of the Subway Corportion.

Granted, the Toronto sports fan can't go attend games in Seattle and perhaps pricing should be on par with the league but flexible relative to our local market. So, let's define our local market. Are we paying seat license fees like the Leafs? Are corporations filling our lower bowl? Do minor hockey associations buy blocks of seats? Do they have Supporter sections?

Further to that, the market itself is changing. Many corporations can't take customers to games anymore given anti-bribery legislation. I know in Health Care, even buying a Dr a coffee in Massachusetts can get you fired. Though my company operates in Canada, we have given up our Leaf/Raptors/Jays/TFC tickets and I can't even support local Charity Golf fundraisers anymore. If "tax write off" allowances disappear in Ontario, as has been discussed, this corporate market declines even further.

Aside from the shifting market, they appear to have wagered that the market would support a corporate base and other fans accepting they couldn't get to all games to pool their resources. It was a big miscalculation IMO. Just because they could charge over $100 for a seat for Real Madrid, that doesn't mean that the average TFC fan is willing to do that 20 times a year.

As for the response I got.... we didn't see prices come down this year did we? :) I think they genuinely want to win. And sadly, I think that they feel that if they do win, all is forgotten. Corporations will jump on, we'll gladly pool our resources together and accept that we will get to less games.

Gringo Starr
05-13-2012, 10:26 AM
I've always wondered if complaining to MLSE about ticket prices is simply the wrong approach for fans to take in that fans have been commenting on ticket prices for years on end and nothing ever changes aside from window dressing type things like "price freezes", value is never added back on. I wonder if a better approach would be to contact MLSE corporate partners and sponsors. Presumably they attach themselves to the team for a positive marketing exercise-well what if enough fans let the sponsors now that it's working in the opposite way? For example why not send a letter to Carlsberg/Steam Whistle/Strongbow saying that since they seem to be okay with fans being charged 10$ a pop at BMO field you have decided that you will no longer be purchasing their products outside of BMO. Write to Bank of Montreal and ask if they really want their brand associated with price gouging and unresponsive corporate culture. This might of course work better with the smaller brands like maybe Smoke's Poutinerie/Steam Whistle. MLSE runs their business as if it were a medium for advertisers and corporations to present their wares to a fanbase---we love TFC so we are going to love Kia by assosiation---so maybe the better approach for fans would be to contact those advertisers and corporations and tell them that the way you are reaching us, via a sporting event where everything is over priced compared to other markets is having a negative impact on the way I view your product and company and as a consumer with choice outside the grounds I will choose to go to your competitor....

james
05-14-2012, 08:24 AM
I knew TFC had one of the higher ticket prices then other teams in MLS who performed much better then us on the field and some teams even had much nice stadiums and still paid less money then TFC fans do. I knew we were getting screwed over on high priced friendlies while other teams were getting friendly tickets at just normal season prices or even at times getting free tickets. And that was pretty disgusting to me. But I didn't know some of these special deals other teams were offering like free parking, $1 hot dog wednesdays, cheap $99 student prices exc exc. It even more disgusting now then i originally thought to see how bad we really are getting ripped off compared to other teams in MLS.

ryan
05-14-2012, 08:37 AM
Aye even once it would be a fuckin blessing. "Half off food night" or anything to throw us a bloody bone. These money hungry assholes can't be gone soon enough, hopefully it's not so ruthless with Bell/Rogers running the show, at least with Rogers/Blue Jays they've not been so damn cutthroat with pricing. (not ideal either, but any improvement is welcome)

RPB_RED_NATION_RPB
05-14-2012, 08:40 AM
tfc tickets are on par with the top clubs in the world...never mind mls....

prizby
05-14-2012, 08:43 AM
RSL had a great promotion to get fans into their seats before kickoff.

Lets say kickoff is 7pm, any fan that arrived at 6:45 or earlier, would get $5 off at the concessions

ecospice
05-14-2012, 09:01 AM
This may not be possible, but it would be interesting to compare the operating costs of each MLS club. For example, calculate things like: rent for stadium and offices, practice facility, etc. I assume renting BMO is relatively cheap (compared to, say, Red Bull Park or some of the other private SSS in the league) given it is City owned and operated. MLSE already has offices and presumably slotted TFC into those which pre-existed the formation of the Club. It might be that when the ticket prices, revenue and costs are compared TFC also leads in profit. I don't know if MLS releases profit information for the clubs that are members of the league.

cmonyoureds
05-14-2012, 10:32 AM
A combination of cash flow problems and a belief my tickets were overpriced had me not renewing this year. I fully intended on going to games this year on a game by game basis. In reality I have been to 0 games at BMO this year. Now that I don't have the physical tickets sitting in my house I don't make a point of reserving game days on my calendar. So game days get filled with other things, friends, family.

The real truth is it's harder to get an ex customer to come back than it is to keep your current ones happy. It's an obvious truth, but it is one the front office ignores every year. Once you let your seasons go it's easy to lounge back on the sofa and watch the game on TV.

As for the post above which mentions what other clubs do TFC will quickly mention that they have no control over the parking at BMO. In my opinion they are uncreative and have had it too easy this far. It's like they have meetings on what to do for incentives and just say 'hey we can't do anything about the parking' then end the meeting and walk out.

+1
Our car pool partners for the past 5 years decided to give up tix and go on a "game by game" basis.
They went to the home opener, paid less for their tickets than I did, and haven't been bothered to go again yet this year.

Pretty sure we'll be doing the same thing next year.

craz11
05-14-2012, 11:47 AM
If this is the sentiment amongst RPB imagine what the "average" fan is thinking...


+1
Our car pool partners for the past 5 years decided to give up tix and go on a "game by game" basis.
They went to the home opener, paid less for their tickets than I did, and haven't been bothered to go again yet this year.

Pretty sure we'll be doing the same thing next year.

Nestease
05-14-2012, 10:55 PM
For example, calculate things like: rent for stadium and offices, practice facility, etc. I assume renting BMO is relatively cheap (compared to, say, Red Bull Park or some of the other private SSS in the league) given it is City owned and operated.

There's no renting of BMO Field per say. There's a lot of revenue sharing that is split between the city and MLSE. If you dig through the dockets at city hall, it's all there. These were the terms before the stadium was built. I don't know if they have changed. Most of the revenue makers for the stadium/city are capped. The city and MLSE split the revenues from everything else that isn't MLS/CSA sanctioned. The CSA gets a handout to cover their fees before that.

Ticket Revenue:
MLSE receives 93% of revenue from tickets sold at an MLS event. The stadium receives 7% of ticket revenue or a maximum of $15,000 per game. If your average ticket is $50, that's 300 tickets. CSA has the same agreement.

Sponsorship:
MLSE 82.5%, Stadium 17.5% ($750,000 cap per year)

Parking:
MLSE 33.33% for first 10 years (40% after)

Food and Beverage:
MLSE 25% GROSS, Stadium receives remaining NET revenue after MLSE shares and costs are covered. CSA has same agreement.

Merchandise:
MLSE 85% GROSS (MLS provides merchandise). Stadium receives NET revenue after MLSE shares and cost of operating concessions are covered.

Luxury Suites and Club Seats:
MLSE 45%, Stadium 55%

Management Agreement with MLSEL:
Through the management agreement, MLSEL, the City/Board, and to a lesser extent the CSA, would participate in the sharing of the stadium’s potential financial outcomes. Net revenues generated by the stadium are to be distributed in the following priority:

1. to the City/Board and MLSEL to the extent of any prior contributions to excess operating
costs;

2. to the City/Board $250,000 and MLSEL $250,000;

3. thereafter, to:



CSA, 33% as a rebate of its user fees, up to the amount of such fees for the year in

question; and


the City/Board and to MLSEL the balance (50:50).

In addition to sharing in stadium net revenues with the Board/City, MLSEL would also receive an annual management fee of $200,000.

don gagliardi
05-15-2012, 01:10 PM
I was asked to re-run this comparison of league wide ticket prices by vantage point with 2012 data.

. . .




Team

Club

Centre Line

Off Center

Corners

North Stand

Supporters



Houston

$1,825

$900

$700

$400

$550

$250



Toronto

$1,600

$1,083

$988

$684

$589

$399



RSL

$1,500

$900

$750

$565

$360

$250



Vancouver

$1,482

$832

$505

$505

$420

$277



Seattle

$1,432

$768

$768

$432

$342

$342



SKC

$1,400

$660

$700

$600

$380

$260



FC Dallas

$1,314

$954

$684

$306

$306

$241



Philly

$1,278

$756

$612

$432

$360

$324



NY

$1,100

$920

$720

$400

$360

$320



Chicago

$999

$600

$600

$400

$220

$199



NE Revolution

$972

$540

$432

$324

$432

$252



SJ

$840

$640

$420

$320

$280

$280



DC United

$803

$617

$446

$344

$344

$344



Colorado

$629

$476

$544

$357

$357

$238



Columbus

$560

$364

$336

$252

$266

$238



Chivas

$504

$504

$306

$252

$162

$162



LA


$1,160

$1,000

$850

$560

$400












Average

$1,140

$746

$618

$437

$370

$281



TFC

$1,600

$1,083

$988

$684

$589

$399



Difference

$460

$337

$370

$247

$219

$118



Pair Difference

$920.2

$674.94

$739.41

$494.7

$438.24

$236.12






* not an exact science as renewal pricing and multi-year renewals also impact pricing. Some generalizations made


San Jose 2012 supporters season "seats" are actually less than you have indicated -- $260 US ($13 per game for a 20-game package); this is a $1 per game increase over 2011 rates.

The "center line" second-priciest category may also be over-stated.

From San Jose's 2012 pocket schedule:

Premier Midfield $42 per game (x20 = $840)
Center Circle $27 per game (x20 = $540)
Sideline $21 per game (x20 = $420)
Corner Flag $16 per game (x20 = $320)
Supporters $13 per game (x20 = $260)

Hopefully this offers further ammunition with MLSE.

Pookie
05-15-2012, 02:00 PM
^ fair point. For San Jose, I counted Premier midfield as the equivalent of Club seats and the $640 Center Circle seats as equivalent to our sec 108 seats. You are correct in that I have Supporters about $20 higher than they should be.

This is the link to their season ticket prices, which includes 20 games (17 MLS + 2 bonus + 1 playoff game).

http://www.sjearthquakes.com/tickets/season-tickets

greatwhitenorf
05-17-2012, 10:17 AM
We had 10 tickets and ditched four after last season. Of the six remaining, at least two go unused every game, and often four sit empty. And these aren't seats we're selling. These are handouts. I'd say Tom's ideas on supply and demand need a re-think.

We're looking at ditching another four. With all the bargains floating around, why not get the cheapest ticket available? If you wait until kickoff, you can get desperate scalpers off-loading outside for buttons. Once you're in, you can sit in almost any section if you pick your spots properly. Might become full time strategy. Money saved will pay for Sportsnet World and then some.

We don't buy food or drink at the stadium. We'll tailgate outside. Might get a coffee inside. I stick a Mars bar in one pocket, maybe double up zip-loc bags with a splash of rum inside, in another pocket. Go to my seat and stay there for two hours and enjoy the game, chat with neighbours in intermission. Two hours. Don't need to subject myself to the concourse mobs or the ridiculous prices.

Whoop
05-17-2012, 10:31 AM
^^
Hmmm.... that's a good strategy.