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Yohan
05-11-2012, 12:50 AM
Vancouver looking for a little payback from last year.

http://www.goal.com/en-us/news/1110/major-league-soccer/2012/05/10/3093532/whitecaps-happy-to-face-tfc-in-canadian-final

Roogsy
05-11-2012, 08:59 AM
Well...it makes for a great storyline!

#drama


Head coach Martin Rennie upped the ante as well, deadpanning a sarcastic response to Toronto FC head coach Aron Winter’s recent assertion that TFC is the best club in the country.
“For us, the final is a game we’re excited about,” Rennie said. “As Aron Winter said, Toronto are better than Vancouver and Montreal. We know going in we’re the underdogs and I think that suits us. We’re a team starting off at the bottom, scraping our way up to the top and it’s more pressure on the best team.


:facepalm:

Well done Winter. Man...he just doesn't get it. This guy shouldn't be in charge of an ice cream truck.

Fort York Redcoat
05-11-2012, 09:24 AM
Well done Winter. Man...he just doesn't get it. This guy shouldn't be in charge of an ice cream truck.

I don't know..."Winter's Ice Cream" sounds pretty refreshing on a hot day.g:D

ryan
05-11-2012, 11:25 AM
God damn Winter for not being afraid of being publicly confident, when did that get anyone anywhere. I fully demand Winter's head if he doesn't come out and start telling the media "we're piss, Vancouver is better, we don't deserve to be on the field with them" then the players are surely to believe!

Carts
05-11-2012, 11:56 AM
I don't mind Winter's confident proclamation here...

Normally I hate giving teams 'dressing room wall' material, but in this case maybe the team needs the swagger and some hop in their step...

If Winter had said "...we're having a tough season, and Vancouver is an excellent club that will want to...." that would just play right into this 0-8 nightmare of a start...

Maybe they're pulling a George Costanza & doing the opposite of what is expected...?

Bottom line, the result of this aggregate final will determine if this was a good move / bad move...

Like I said, normally I don't like saying things like this, and giving teams something to play for - but maybe, Winter is trying to give our lads something to play for with these comments...

Go get'em Boys!
Carts...

Canary10
05-11-2012, 11:57 AM
^ Well we just had a month of SAF and Roberto Mancini going to pains to say the other team was the favourite to win the EPL. There's some strategy in that.

ryan
05-11-2012, 12:11 PM
Is there any statistical data to support what a manager says to how the team responds? Or this is all opinion driven by whatever media we come across?

I don't think it holds much if any value TBH. Perhaps if a manager came out and said something totally offside, perhaps that might weigh on a players mind, but typical banter is repeated so often I don't think it matters.

He said we were better than Montreal, the haters scoffed, we beat them. So?

Roogsy
05-11-2012, 12:14 PM
Is there any statistical data to support what a manager says to how the team responds? Or this is all opinion driven by whatever media we come across?

I don't think it holds much if any value TBH. Perhaps if a manager came out and said something totally offside, perhaps that might weigh on a players mind, but typical banter is repeated so often I don't think it matters.

He said we were better than Montreal, the haters scoffed, we beat them. So?

Motivation in sports is a huge thing. It's not quantifiable but all you have too look at is DeRo's 3 goal game against TFC last year with a man down to observe the kind of impact it has on games.

ryan
05-11-2012, 12:20 PM
Motivation in sports is a huge thing. It's not quantifiable but all you have too look at is DeRo's 3 goal game against TFC last year with a man down to observe the kind of impact it has on games.

Cause what is said to the media is what is said to them during practice/meetings/etc? No.



DeRo was self motivated and I'm not denying it exists. It's not even a comparison here though because his motivation had nothing to do with what his manager had to say that day.

Carts
05-11-2012, 12:40 PM
Motivation in sports is a huge thing. It's not quantifiable but all you have too look at is DeRo's 3 goal game against TFC last year with a man down to observe the kind of impact it has on games.

I agree 100% - motivation, something to play for, personal reasons, etc etc etc is huge in sports...

Now, is there any stats data that can prove "this works / this doesn't" - no...

Working / Coaching in hockey, I always wanted to stay away from 'dressing room wall' material - kept everything said to local paper/tv very down the middle and 'polite' (for lack of a better word)...

Its just, right now, at 0-8 in MLS play, pumping Vancouver & talking about being underdogs or etc might play into the burden of that record - I don't mind the idea of going in opposite direction and saying "we're a better team, and we'll go out there and prove it" type of thing...

It could backfire, and could backfire huge! Or it could work & be genious... The result will be the result, and whether this or that had anything to do with it will be opinion and opinion alone really...

Hey, at least we're in the fight...!
Carts...

Roogsy
05-11-2012, 12:40 PM
Cause what is said to the media is what is said to them during practice/meetings/etc? No.



DeRo was self motivated and I'm not denying it exists. It's not even a comparison here though because his motivation had nothing to do with what his manager had to say that day.


Ask guys who have been in those rooms as to whether coaches use words spoken in the media are used to motivate the players.

Yeah DeRo had something to prove. That was his motivation. Whether it came from the coach is irrelevant. The method of communication of the motivation doesn't matter, it's whether it actually causes motivation that can influence a performance that matters.

If I am a player and I hear that a coach on the other team has spoken poorly of me, it doesn't matter if I read it myself, hear it on the radio, am told by my coach or my wife tells me at dinner, either one of those methods is going to cause a similar reaction. And if you don't think Rennie is going to use it to movitate his team, you're fooling yourself. He has obviously noticed the comments by making a sarcastic remark about them. I will bet you a box of donuts he's also talking about it in the lockerroom and using it to motivate his club.

History is full of examples of teams that found the courage to beat another team based on unecessary motivation provided by other teams. Just look at the latest Stanley Cup playoffs to see the kind of performance Philly has given against the more talented Pens to see what motivation does to a team.

It is commonly accepted in sports that you don't poke a sleeping lion. And he's gone and done exactly that. Unecessarily so. And yet you dismiss it as if it has no effect whatsoever. I would guess most people disagree with you.

Richard
05-11-2012, 12:46 PM
Wow so what do you guys want? Him cut off his balls and submit to being a shit team to display no confidence, might as well ask Vancouver to gag and rape TFC.

trane
05-11-2012, 12:54 PM
^ How about he says nothing and shows Canada is the best team, by winnig more then one game?????


That is how it useally works in Football. You win more games then the other teams in the country, and you are declared the best team in the country.

starter
05-11-2012, 12:58 PM
I do not think Whitecaps can even see us from the top of the table, so the noises we make are not exactly disturbing the 'sleeping lion'.
Winter is challenging his team to perform to its' potential, that is for sure.

trane
05-11-2012, 01:13 PM
I am the best Center Back in Canada.

Canary10
05-11-2012, 01:18 PM
I am the best Center Back in Canada.

Eff you! You're crap, I'm gonna nutmeg you ten times over...

Oh, I get it.

Roogsy
05-11-2012, 01:20 PM
I am the best Center Back in Canada.

I'll do you one better:

I am the most loved Registered User on the RPB forum.

:lol:

Canary10
05-11-2012, 01:25 PM
I'll do you one better:

I am the most loved Registered User on the RPB forum.

:lol:

Eff you!! You're the most obnoxious twit I've ever read on this forum...>!

Oh. Why do I keep walking into these things?

Initial B
05-11-2012, 01:35 PM
I am the best Center Back in Canada.
Prove it! :D :p

trane
05-11-2012, 01:40 PM
I'll do you one better:

I am the most loved Registered User on the RPB forum.

:lol:


And I am in third, right after Exiled Red.


As for proving that I am the best CB in Canada. I do not need too. I said it, therefore it is.

Fort York Redcoat
05-11-2012, 01:42 PM
I'll do you one better:

I am the most loved Registered User on the RPB forum.

:lol:


Eff you!! You're the most obnoxious twit I've ever read on this forum...>!

Oh. Why do I keep walking into these things?

Um Roogs you could probably lose the icon if you went by reputation points!! :thumbsup:


And do me a favour and say you're friends before people report Canary's post.

Fort York Redcoat
05-11-2012, 01:44 PM
And I am in third, right after Exiled Red.


As for proving that I am the best CB in Canada. I do not need too. I said it, therefore it is.

3rd? That would make you the enforcer. Goes with being a CB, no? :)

tfcleeds
05-11-2012, 01:52 PM
In some ways, Winter is right. We are the better team when it comes to the Canadian Championship, in that Vancouver have yet to win the prize. They want it so badly - the pressure is all on them.

trane
05-11-2012, 01:54 PM
3rd? That would make you the enforcer. Goes with being a CB, no? :)



That I am. Sadly, even at 42, I act like a 19 year old goon on the pitch.

ryan
05-11-2012, 02:34 PM
Ask guys who have been in those rooms as to whether coaches use words spoken in the media are used to motivate the players.

Is there a statistical data to backup a coach saying "my team is better than the other team" you have? Otherwise, cool story bro.


Yeah DeRo had something to prove. That was his motivation. Whether it came from the coach is irrelevant.

The topic at hand is a coach stating his team is good to the media, DeRo's self motivation (and your love affair to inject him into this conversation) is what's irrelevant. The coach's comments to the media is what we are discussing, so lets stay on point here.


The method of communication of the motivation doesn't matter, it's whether it actually causes motivation that can influence a performance that matters.

We're talking about what the manager says to the media, so the method does matter because that's the bloody conversation.


If I am a player and I hear that a coach on the other team has spoken poorly of me, it doesn't matter if I read it myself, hear it on the radio, am told by my coach or my wife tells me at dinner, either one of those methods is going to cause a similar reaction.

But the coach is speaking highly of the team, so this means alot.


And if you don't think Rennie is going to use it to movitate his team, you're fooling yourself. He has obviously noticed the comments by making a sarcastic remark about them. I will bet you a box of donuts he's also talking about it in the lockerroom and using it to motivate his club.

If losing to us last year, the miracle in Montreal and flat out dislike between cities is not enough? Rennie really needs this? Please, there's enough motivation, adding to it isn't going to give them some magical edge or provide motivation because it's lacking. Any fool can tell you Vancouver was motivated without a comment.


History is full of examples of teams that found the courage to beat another team based on unecessary motivation provided by other teams. Just look at the latest Stanley Cup playoffs to see the kind of performance Philly has given against the more talented Pens to see what motivation does to a team.

History also has examples of teams who found the balls to stay "we're going to win" and then did so. Pretty cool eh?


It is commonly accepted in sports that you don't poke a sleeping lion. And he's gone and done exactly that.

So when he (and players) did so against Montreal, that surely woke them up to the tune of 0 goals in 180 minutes. Totally on to something here.


And yet you dismiss it as if it has no effect whatsoever. I would guess most people disagree with you.

You give it too much credit, as if it's proven fact. Choose to ignore one side of the happenings and buy into the other, much like you do with "we're lucky when we win" and "not unlucky when we lose". lolz.

Oldtimer
05-11-2012, 02:34 PM
3rd? That would make you the enforcer. Goes with being a CB, no? :)

That makes you a CB because you're an "enforcer." You "enforce" the board rules. :)

Oldtimer
05-11-2012, 02:38 PM
In some ways, Winter is right. We are the better team when it comes to the Canadian Championship, in that Vancouver have yet to win the prize. They want it so badly - the pressure is all on them.

Results are what matters, in the end. Whether it's "luck" or not. As Gyula Grosics once said:


"Victory needs no explanation. There is no explanation for defeat."

You can talk about all kinds of factors, and in the short-run that's OK, but in the long run winning is what matters (Fair Play fits in their somewhere, but it's kind of murkey in my mind :D ).

TOBOR !
05-11-2012, 02:55 PM
Meh. I take no issue with Winter's declaration.

Whichever way you look at it Vancouver will be confident of their chances as I'm sure Montreal were.

They don't believe they are underdogs.

Jack
05-11-2012, 03:07 PM
He said we were better than Montreal, the haters scoffed, we beat them. So?
See my sig.

trane
05-11-2012, 03:17 PM
Is there a statistical data to backup a coach saying "my team is better than the other team" you have? Otherwise, cool story bro.




How about this stat to show that we are not the best team in Canada; 0-8. How is that for stats bro? I forget that in the TFC football world winning does not matter.

Roogsy
05-11-2012, 04:01 PM
Um Roogs you could probably lose the icon if you went by reputation points!! :thumbsup:


And do me a favour and say you're friends before people report Canary's post.


LMAO!

Unwillingly causing more work for mods? I would NEVER do that! :lol:

Roogsy
05-11-2012, 04:13 PM
We're talking about what the manager says to the media, so the method does matter because that's the bloody conversation.

No, the topic is motivation, not the method. Winter gave them motivation. If you say they already had motivation, well then he gave them more. It's a stupid thing to do. If they weren't already motivated, they sure are now.


History also has examples of teams who found the balls to stay "we're going to win" and then did so. Pretty cool eh?

And history has examples of teams that said they were going to win and did not. It puts pressure on the team making the claim and it gives incentive to the other team. Your example is poor because it does not speak to motivation, it speaks to a team's confidence, which this team has been lacking for some time. The Montreal win may have undone some of that lack of confidence, but they will need more than a single win to get back full confidence.


You give it too much credit, as if it's proven fact. Choose to ignore one side of the happenings and buy into the other, much like you do with "we're lucky when we win" and "not unlucky when we lose". lolz.

Of course it is not surprising that you overlook one glaring fact.

When a team wins 1 out of a dozen games. That 1 single win looks like an aberration. It's a statistical anomaly. Because it is a departure from the trend.

When a team wins consistently, it ceases to be the exception and starts becoming like the rule. Luck is generally ruled out. Is TFC in this category? Not even close.

However, when a team is consistently losing, anomalies such as "luck" are discounted. Because "bad luck" doesn't happen to good teams over multiple games and multiple months.

The fact that Toronto has been losing signficantly more than winning is exactly why "good luck" and "bad luck" cannot be equated as having similar impacts on either side of the win column. I know people try to do so, but trend analysis say it is much more structural issue than it is an intangible one.

v00d00daddy
05-11-2012, 05:05 PM
Well...I was gonna come in this thread and mention a couple of things I noticed about Vancouver from the last couple times I watched them play. Unfortunately this pre game thread doesn't seem like the appropriate place. Ah well.....back to Winter. One person already mentioned this but this kind of Winter comment got people riled up prior to the montreal game and it worked out ok. How'd the white board material work out for Montreal?

LOL

I'll be back when you guys feel like talking about the actual upcoming match.

19Barrett19
05-11-2012, 05:23 PM
Line up .....

--------------------------Kocic----------------------------
Hall---------Henry----------------Canm-------------Morgan
------------deguz---------------Fings-------------------
-----------------------Avila------------------------------
Lambe--------------Johnson----------------------Plata

Subs:
Roberts
Soolsma
Koev
Aceval
Dunfield
Silva

keep the line up the same with the exception of Eckersly being suspended (red card). Soolsma can be used for sure hes very effective late in games. Koev late game sub,
maybe you can add williams to that list as a late game sub heard hes in full training.

Yohan
05-11-2012, 05:52 PM
On paper, I do think Vancouver should win. Practically every position Vancouver seems to win, and Rennie has them playing some sort of hybrid defensive 4-3-3/4-5-1/4-2-3-1 well. Their league record speaks for themselves, plus with a lot of their injured players back, Vancouver has depth.
TFC might have parity at CM, and if JDG and Frings again play their balls off to cut off passes between Vancouver defence and attackers, TFC might squeak a win in BC place. If TFC loses midfield battle, esp allowing Camilo and Chiumiento space to work their magic, it's going to be a long night for TFC. Gotta keep up the high pressure and physical play, even if TFC gets some yellows.

trane
05-11-2012, 05:54 PM
^ We have the ability to beat them. If we play like we played against Montreal on Wednesday. If we play the way we play in most MLS games. Forget it.

trane
05-11-2012, 06:03 PM
Well...I was gonna come in this thread and mention a couple of things I noticed about Vancouver from the last couple times I watched them play. Unfortunately this pre game thread doesn't seem like the appropriate place. Ah well.....back to Winter. One person already mentioned this but this kind of Winter comment got people riled up prior to the montreal game and it worked out ok. How'd the white board material work out for Montreal?

LOL

I'll be back when you guys feel like talking about the actual upcoming match.

I am not trying to be an ass, but Winter coaching is a topic in regard to the upcoming match, it is a fundamental question, that one can not get away when one talks about TFC on the pitch.

Seriously, if this was Milan, would you think that he would still be around? Why is the standard different for TFC. Sure Milan is a big squad, but it is all relative, Milan plays against Juve and Napoli, TFC play against Columbus and New York. Results matter.

Yohan
05-11-2012, 06:10 PM
^ We have the ability to beat them. If we play like we played against Montreal on Wednesday. If we play the way we play in most MLS games. Forget it.
If TFC plays like they did against Mtl Wed in every game, we'd be top of MLS or somewhere close to it right now

Shakes McQueen
05-11-2012, 06:33 PM
I am not trying to be an ass, but Winter coaching is a topic in regard to the upcoming match, it is a fundamental question, that one can not get away when one talks about TFC on the pitch.

Seriously, if this was Milan, would you think that he would still be around? Why is the standard different for TFC. Sure Milan is a big squad, but it is all relative, Milan plays against Juve and Napoli, TFC play against Columbus and New York. Results matter.

Gonna call BS on this justification. By that rationalization, every thread about TFC is eligible to be derailed into another conversation about Aron Winter.

We already have threads for discussing Aron Winter, and his future with our team. This thread is about dicussing the upcoming game - that does not include every tangentially related topic, and will be moderated as such. People are sick of the back and forth about Winter seeping into every thread.

- Scott

ryan
05-11-2012, 08:02 PM
How about this stat to show that we are not the best team in Canada; 0-8. How is that for stats bro? I forget that in the TFC football world winning does not matter.

2-0, how's that for stats?

Were the 2001 New England Patriots the best team in the NFL? No, they just won the championship. There's billions of examples of this in sport. The Champions may not always be the best team, WHY DO YOU CARE IF OUR CLUB IS HOLDING THE TROPHY?

Are Chelsea and Bayern TRULY the best clubs in Europe? One will hoist the UEFA CL Cup tho, perhaps their supports should be pissed off about it.

Anyways, I'll go ahead and enjoy this 1st leg and TFC winning another Canadian Championship while you piss and moan that Montreal and Vancouver are better sides and deserve it more.....on a Toronto message board no less. Feel free to post more threads about how unhappy you are, they totally make sense when you cry in favour of our bloody rivals.

Good grief this kind of posting is tired.

ryan
05-11-2012, 08:20 PM
No, the topic is motivation, not the method. Winter gave them motivation.

So now you're dictating to me, what I was talking about. Srs?


If you say they already had motivation, well then he gave them more. It's a stupid thing to do. If they weren't already motivated, they sure are now.

LOL, they are motivated, any idiot knows this. Perhaps if Winter repeated himself many times over they'd score a billion goals because they'd have mountains more of motivation. Perhaps all managers should buy massive billboards in the lockerroom and post every speck of motivation on the planet and make their players perform like superheroes! Apparently motivation can be stacked to unlimited levels!



And history has examples of teams that said they were going to win and did not. It puts pressure on the team making the claim and it gives incentive to the other team.

So in summary. Teams have claimed they'd win, sometimes they did, sometimes they didn't. Teams have claimed they were the dogs, sometimes they'd win, sometimes they didn't. Thanks for coming out with this rocker of a point.




Of course it is not surprising that you overlook one glaring fact.

When a team wins 1 out of a dozen games. That 1 single win looks like an aberration. It's a statistical anomaly. Because it is a departure from the trend.

You spend too much time playing math and not enough time playing sports. How about in baseball, when the Colorado Rockies had 120 some odd games to say they were an X caliber team...then decided to win for a month straight and go to a World Series. Or how about the Cardinals who had 140 games to say they were X team last year, then won a championship. Trends aren't forever bro.

Remember when the Leafs were gonna make the playoffs finally last Feb? 5 months of data says they would, FIVE MONTHS, but alas they did not. What's the aberration then? 5 Months of hockey?


When a team wins consistently, it ceases to be the exception and starts becoming like the rule. Luck is generally ruled out. Is TFC in this category? Not even close.

Luck is everywhere in sports. Sports are all games of inches and if you fail to see that, you've lost sight of the games you watch.


However, when a team is consistently losing, anomalies such as "luck" are discounted. Because "bad luck" doesn't happen to good teams over multiple games and multiple months.

Nobody is saying TFC should be an 8-0 club, but luck is why we aren't a mid table club no doubt.


The fact that Toronto has been losing signficantly more than winning is exactly why "good luck" and "bad luck" cannot be equated as having similar impacts on either side of the win column. I know people try to do so, but trend analysis say it is much more structural issue than it is an intangible one.

So when the stats said we had -5.83 goals against from "non scoring" opportunities, a league worst, that's not luck, am i rite?

Shakes McQueen
05-11-2012, 08:25 PM
Ryan, I appreciate your passion, but can you please tone down the sarcasm and derision a notch. We don't like it when Roogsy et al. do it, and it's the same for everyone else.

- Scott

Ajax TFC
05-11-2012, 08:51 PM
honestly, for some people there isn't a thing that Winter COULD have said that wouldn't piss them off. If he said "Vancouver are the favourites" there would be people raging about how Winter is conceding that the team that he built and coaches is bad, or there would be people complaining that it demoralizes his own players.
The only thing that Vancouver needs for motivation is their VC history and more importantly, last year. Anyone consider that it might motivate his players more than Vancouver's?
Seriously, just because he's not the greatest game day coach, doesn't mean that everything he says and does at every second of every day is wrong, as some people here wish to believe and make others believe

Oldtimer
05-11-2012, 09:03 PM
Seriously, just because he's not the greatest game day coach, doesn't mean that everything he says and does at every second of every day is wrong, as some people here wish to believe and make others believe

You took the words out of my mouth. I'm not a Winter fan, but I don't have to hate everything about the man. I think it was a poor choice to hire an inexperienced coach, and it shows in our record, but I don't hate how he plays golf, his taste in beer, or absolutely every aspect of his coaching. I don't loath the man, I wish him well in fact.

Now about the game, both Roogsy and I tagged Vancouver to win the Voyageurs Cup this year several months ago, but if TFC plays like they did last game, they still have an outside chance to take this one. It certainly will be an interesting match to watch (which is all that the Montreal Impact will be able to do :D )

Rudi
05-11-2012, 09:18 PM
Vancouver looking for a little payback from last year.

http://www.goal.com/en-us/news/1110/major-league-soccer/2012/05/10/3093532/whitecaps-happy-to-face-tfc-in-canadian-final
Here's the link from the Canadian Edition of Goal.com (where this article originated): http://www.goal.com/en-ca/news/4189/canadian-championship/2012/05/10/3093308/whitecaps-happy-to-face-tfc-in-canadian-final

#supportlocalfootballjournalism :)

bigredone
05-12-2012, 07:18 AM
We are the best Canadian team and time will allow us to prove it again and again. This is just a lull to allow other maple teams to improve and think they have a chance. Let us give them that, ok!

Fuck Winter and the FO. Let us watch our boys celebrate and join them when they do!

In regards to line-up, isn't Cann carded for the Vancouver game. I would hate to see Aceval in.

T-boy
05-12-2012, 08:51 AM
I think the Vancouver series is going to be the break for AW this season. I've seen the Caps a couple of times this season, and they are a different monster compared to last year. They are super organised at the back, and now with Hassli AND Le Toux up front, they have multiple options going forward. TFC might get a break if they can keep the first leg tight and if they approach it like the first Montreal game. But if Vancouver score a couple of goals, we can wave goodbye to the home leg. It's also going to be imperative that TFC try and score an away goal, so they will need to TRY and be a little adventurous in the first leg to score a goal.

In betweem I don't see TFC getting anything out of the DC game. This could be a tough couple of weeks. As usual, I hope I'm wrong!

ryan
05-12-2012, 10:06 AM
I think the Vancouver series is going to be the break for AW this season. I've seen the Caps a couple of times this season, and they are a different monster compared to last year. They are super organised at the back, and now with Hassli AND Le Toux up front, they have multiple options going forward. TFC might get a break if they can keep the first leg tight and if they approach it like the first Montreal game. But if Vancouver score a couple of goals, we can wave goodbye to the home leg. It's also going to be imperative that TFC try and score an away goal, so they will need to TRY and be a little adventurous in the first leg to score a goal.

In betweem I don't see TFC getting anything out of the DC game. This could be a tough couple of weeks. As usual, I hope I'm wrong!

I don't see us sitting back at all in the 1st leg, we got 6 days to prepare, some fresh legs coming back (Soolsma had a bit of pace on Weds and DK is going to be back). Their backline will get tested, they are in NE tonight so they gotta fly back home across the continent to prepare for us after that while we catch our wind for now.

They also have a difficult tilt vs Seattle when we play @ DC, so they have a difficult stretch to balance all 4 matches in the next 11 days.

Rene Kingsriver
05-12-2012, 10:23 AM
honestly, for some people there isn't a thing that Winter COULD have said that wouldn't piss them off. If he said "Vancouver are the favourites" there would be people raging about how Winter is conceding that the team that he built and coaches is bad, or there would be people complaining that it demoralizes his own players.
The only thing that Vancouver needs for motivation is their VC history and more importantly, last year. Anyone consider that it might motivate his players more than Vancouver's?
Seriously, just because he's not the greatest game day coach, doesn't mean that everything he says and does at every second of every day is wrong, as some people here wish to believe and make others believe

To be fair I think the problem people have with this specific quote is, how can you honestly claim you're a better team when 17 points behind in the standings.

bigredone
05-12-2012, 10:26 AM
^ He speaks from the heart and not from the brain.

Rene Kingsriver
05-12-2012, 10:31 AM
^ He speaks from the heart and not from the brain.

can't say I've seen evidence at TFC that he has much of either

MartinUtd
05-12-2012, 10:32 AM
We can take these games, MLS record be damned. I saw a different team on Wednesday, I saw the team we all thought we were getting two months ago.

bigredone
05-12-2012, 10:46 AM
^The winds of war ^

Yohan
05-12-2012, 06:36 PM
Vancouver is playing New England tonight at Gilette, then flying back to Vancouver. they will be tired. TFC needs a result, and no reason why we can't take it to Vancouver at BC Place, with no game this weekend

Yohan
05-12-2012, 06:44 PM
Too easy for Vancouver as Hassli puts Shitecaps up 1-0

Yohan
05-12-2012, 06:46 PM
Revs hit back, as Nguyen gets revenge on the team he got cut from after a bit of scramble in Vancouver box. 1-1

Yohan
05-12-2012, 07:04 PM
Nice dribbling and pass by Nguyen for Sene to finish. 2-1 NE. entertaining game so far

Yohan
05-12-2012, 07:13 PM
3-1 Revs after Joseph buries a hashed clearance by Mitchell

Yohan
05-12-2012, 08:12 PM
what a volley by Nguyen. GOTW nominee for sure. 4-1 NE

a lot of great goals this week

Chevy
05-12-2012, 08:19 PM
2-0, how's that for stats?

Were the 2001 New England Patriots the best team in the NFL? No, they just won the championship. There's billions of examples of this in sport. The Champions may not always be the best team, WHY DO YOU CARE IF OUR CLUB IS HOLDING THE TROPHY?

Are Chelsea and Bayern TRULY the best clubs in Europe? One will hoist the UEFA CL Cup tho, perhaps their supports should be pissed off about it.

Anyways, I'll go ahead and enjoy this 1st leg and TFC winning another Canadian Championship while you piss and moan that Montreal and Vancouver are better sides and deserve it more.....on a Toronto message board no less. Feel free to post more threads about how unhappy you are, they totally make sense when you cry in favour of our bloody rivals.

Good grief this kind of posting is tired.

This x1000. I look forward to more sobbing from some fellow 'supporters' when we take the f**king cup.

ManUtd4ever
05-12-2012, 09:01 PM
I think we are all on the same page in terms of wanting TFC to justify Winter's public vote of confidence in the club by defending their title against Vancouver.

That being said, the reality in this market is that the casual fan base will continue to erode even if TFC continues to enjoy a modicum of success in the CCL while continuing to underachieve in MLS. At this critical juncture in the history of the franchise, the results in league play will be the primary factor in determining the trajectory of this club moving forward.

brad
05-12-2012, 09:22 PM
I think the Vancouver series is going to be the break for AW this season. I've seen the Caps a couple of times this season, and they are a different monster compared to last year. They are super organised at the back, and now with Hassli AND Le Toux up front, they have multiple options going forward. TFC might get a break if they can keep the first leg tight and if they approach it like the first Montreal game. But if Vancouver score a couple of goals, we can wave goodbye to the home leg. It's also going to be imperative that TFC try and score an away goal, so they will need to TRY and be a little adventurous in the first leg to score a goal.

In betweem I don't see TFC getting anything out of the DC game. This could be a tough couple of weeks. As usual, I hope I'm wrong!

The actually looked very disorganized at the back against NE tonight. That's the nature of this league though. Solid one week, schoolboys the next.

Yohan
05-12-2012, 09:50 PM
Both starting cbs were rested.

Auzzy
05-12-2012, 10:23 PM
Crap. Camilo, Jay DeMerit and John Thorrington all didn't even travel to NE for this game, and regular central defender Martín Bonjour was also left on the bench.

rocker
05-13-2012, 10:34 AM
Motivation in sports is a huge thing. It's not quantifiable

You just contradicted yourself.... You said it's a huge thing and then it's not quantifiable. If it's not quantifiable, it cannot be assessed as a huge thing. That would require quantification... It's like when someone says "That player may not be the most skilful, but he has great intangibles qualities." If it's intangible, it can't be quantified.

People *want* to believe that a coach saying his team is better will antagonize the other team or make them play better. But someone would have to quantify this fairly to see if it's true. Indeed, it could be just observational bias. Maybe people remember the message-board quote after the target team wins the game or series, but when it's a loss (see: Montreal Limp Act on Wednesday), people forget it.

Roogsy
05-13-2012, 11:13 AM
Yes you're all correct, motivation is sports means nothing. Let's just keep telling Vancouver they're shit I am sure that won't have any effect at all. And you guys say I am argumentative?

BTW Rocker, your logic about "huge" and "quantifiable" is incorrect. Stating something is huge does not mean it's quantifiable. Quite the opposite. Descriptive words are often used when quantifying something is difficult or impossible to do. Nice try.

RPB_RED_NATION_RPB
05-13-2012, 10:00 PM
Well...it makes for a great storyline!

#drama



:facepalm:

Well done Winter. Man...he just doesn't get it. This guy shouldn't be in charge of an ice cream truck.

comments like this can work both ways..in this case i agree with winter.....we are the defending champs....come and fucking get it if you can!......

ryan
05-14-2012, 08:33 AM
I like a 2:1 final for Vancouver in this one, but we'll get them back 1:0 at home and take the cup. They'll have too much competitive fire to keep a clean sheet and we're going to need to be aggressive as the away goal is too valuable here. Playing for the zero won't be the objective, especially after all the fun the boys had in the semi. DK will not be denied a goal, I don't think rust will be an issue and the time away should have allowed him to shake off his early misfortunes and come at them with a clear head.

Wednesday can't come soon enough.

T-boy
05-14-2012, 09:53 AM
I don't see us sitting back at all in the 1st leg, we got 6 days to prepare, some fresh legs coming back (Soolsma had a bit of pace on Weds and DK is going to be back). Their backline will get tested, they are in NE tonight so they gotta fly back home across the continent to prepare for us after that while we catch our wind for now.

They also have a difficult tilt vs Seattle when we play @ DC, so they have a difficult stretch to balance all 4 matches in the next 11 days.

It's not the fact that TFC will have had a rest weekend that I'm saying we should sit back. It's the fact that if we go and attack, and then Vancouver score a couple of goals (which is likely as they are stronger going forward this season) then the series could be over by this Wednesday! We need to keep the game within 1 goal to give us any chance of winning whole thing. If Vancouver win the first leg by 2, then the second leg they are going to shut up shop and give TFC no chance.

Gazza
05-14-2012, 10:13 AM
As defending Canadian Champs, i would say we are the best team in Canada. To be the best you have to beat the best.

If Winter's Ice Cream company won best ice cream in Canada for 2011, he would then be the best ice cream maker in Canada until the 2012 vote.

Confidence means way more than blackboard material. Winter gives his team a confidence boost and some consider it a negative.

Pretty sure De Ro doesn't wait to see what other coaches have to say about him or his team before he amps up his play. If he's complimented by the other team's coaches, does he not play to his abilities?

Canary10
05-14-2012, 10:20 AM
Yes you're all correct, motivation is sports means nothing. Let's just keep telling Vancouver they're shit I am sure that won't have any effect at all. And you guys say I am argumentative?

BTW Rocker, your logic about "huge" and "quantifiable" is incorrect. Stating something is huge does not mean it's quantifiable. Quite the opposite. Descriptive words are often used when quantifying something is difficult or impossible to do. Nice try.

Generally the more important the thing is, the harder to quantify....

Not sure, for example, Aguero's goal yesterday could be captured in a statistic.

Gazza
05-14-2012, 10:25 AM
At least we now know why we're 0-8 in mls play. Other teams have yet to say anything bad about us in the paper!

spark
05-14-2012, 10:26 AM
You just contradicted yourself.... You said it's a huge thing and then it's not quantifiable. If it's not quantifiable, it cannot be assessed as a huge thing. That would require quantification... It's like when someone says "That player may not be the most skilful, but he has great intangibles qualities." If it's intangible, it can't be quantified.
rget it.

Naw that's wrong. You can say "so and so has a huge ego" - this statement can be 100% true and there is no measurement, scale or way to quantify it.

Roogsy
05-14-2012, 12:46 PM
Naw that's wrong. You can say "so and so has a huge ego" - this statement can be 100% true and there is no measurement, scale or way to quantify it.

^Exactly. Nice example.


Wait...were you referring to me? :lol:

Section 117
05-14-2012, 01:12 PM
Can someone actually post a link to where Winter said we are the best team in Canada?? I recall he said that we were better than Montreal, nothing was mentioned about the Shitecaps..

So really the Shitecaps coach is setting up his own team trying to give them motivation and reducing the pressure on their players. Cause WHEN they lose, he can point to the underdog status. Also, if the team needs motivation for a cup final where the opposing team has beaten 3 years straight then maybe they have issues.

On that note we will lose 2-1 on the road with a late goal by Kovermans and we return to BMO for a win to clinch our 4 straight Canadian Championship.

BayernTFC
05-14-2012, 02:19 PM
No Frings or Aceval for Wednesday's game in Vancouver:


Kurtis Larson ‏ @KurtLarSUN (http://twitter.com/#%21/KurtLarSUN) Winter: Frings not traveling #TFC (http://twitter.com/#%21/search/%23TFC)


Kurtis Larson ‏ @KurtLarSUN (http://twitter.com/#%21/KurtLarSUN) Winter: Aceval out for Wed. #TFC (http://twitter.com/#%21/search/%23TFC)


http://twitter.com/#!/kurtlarsun

ManUtd4ever
05-14-2012, 02:21 PM
Ouch.

ManUtd4ever
05-14-2012, 02:24 PM
With Frings out, I hope Dunfield is up to the task of sticking it to his former club.

Auzzy
05-14-2012, 02:28 PM
^ Maybe they'll pull another Frings surprise on Vancouver? :D

Richard
05-14-2012, 02:45 PM
Im predicting we park the bus and maybe try to get an away goal but we loose this game folks. The home game is far more important.

Roogsy
05-14-2012, 03:07 PM
Vancouver isn't Montreal, they won't miss as badly as Montreal did. We NEED that away goal.

T-boy
05-14-2012, 03:29 PM
Hassli has found his scoring touch the last couple of weeks, and Le Toux is a goal machine. They definitely won't spurn the chances that Montreal did!

BayernTFC
05-14-2012, 04:25 PM
According to Winter, Danny Koevermans will be making the trip to Vancouver.

ag futbol
05-14-2012, 04:31 PM
The actually looked very disorganized at the back against NE tonight. That's the nature of this league though. Solid one week, schoolboys the next.
How about Lee Nguyen just destroying the caps as well, ahah. Talk about irony after they cut the guy.

I'll admit I was kind of skeptical about Nguyen as well though.

rocker
05-14-2012, 09:34 PM
Hassli has found his scoring touch the last couple of weeks, and Le Toux is a goal machine. They definitely won't spurn the chances that Montreal did!

But Vancouver is not scoring much this season. 10 goals in 10 league games.

Hassli and Le Toux may *look* dangerous at times but so far this season they aren't scoring much. Hassli has 2 goals. Le Toux has 3. Camilo has 2.

Remember that Reggie Lambe has 2 goals.... so that ain't much.

Where Vancouver has improved is not in offense but in defense.

Section 117
05-14-2012, 09:41 PM
I hope we pull the amazing upset and stick it to Vancouver and our own FO on the road. They are just waiting for Winter to lose these two matched and then Winter gets the can and that loser Jimmy takes over. Fuck that and fuck the FO

Toronto
05-14-2012, 10:32 PM
If the league doesn't mean anything-- why even play MLS. I'm sure there is a men's league somewhere in the GTA where we can play 4-6 games a year in and Winter will look like a coaching superstar and then we can play in Amway Super Duper Cup Supreme.

Funny how people's script's change to suit the need. If we were 8-0 in league play and just lost t MTL in both games by 4-1 scores, we'd be "That CCL thing is such BS" How it should always be:

League First. (PLAY-OFFS should be the goal)
Amway Tupperwear Cup Second

OgtheDim
05-14-2012, 11:02 PM
...
Funny how people's script's change to suit the need. If we were 8-0 in league play and just lost t MTL in both games by 4-1 scores, we'd be "That CCL thing is such BS..."

I'll see your script change and raise you a "I hope we lose to Montreal so Winter gets fired".

Meh......

In every team where they compete in both cup and league, some people like the romance of the cup situation and others put league first. Those supporter opinions for TFC predate Winter @ TFC and will carry on long after he is gone. You may think its some nefarious logical discussion point..............but sometimes a desire to do well in the cup is just a desire to do well in the cup.

jloome
05-15-2012, 12:43 AM
See my sig.

LOL, that's some Teddy Roosevelt zen shit right there.

__wowza
05-15-2012, 07:56 AM
Funny how people's script's change to suit the need. If we were 8-0 in league play and just lost t MTL in both games by 4-1 scores, we'd be "That CCL thing is such BS" How it should always be:

League First. (PLAY-OFFS should be the goal)
Amway Tupperwear Cup Second

i'll take it that to mean you never saw the endless threads discussing the merits of both.
im not going to get into the european argument about CL play, and simply ask that you check out those threads, but i will say that the majority (and im talking 90%+) would be notably upset should we have gone 8-0 in the league but not win the VC. in fact, you'd hear the same argument: "why are we doing well in the league but not in CCL play?".

yes, the league is important, but you'll always find a divide on what's more important to supporters vs. the casual fan. personally i'd take champions league success over a domestic cup any day, and if the voyagers cup is our ticket to the dance, then we need to get that ticket punched in the first chance we get.


"how it should always be" = personal opinion,
so let's try and avoid the hypothetical callout.

__wowza
05-15-2012, 07:58 AM
i hope the vancouver fans don't come to BMO with their scary sticker campaign and rip up a few of our seats.
oh lawd, that was so scurry!! it totally took all of our supporters outt've the equitation. :rolleyes:

Shakes McQueen
05-15-2012, 08:02 AM
If the league doesn't mean anything-- why even play MLS. I'm sure there is a men's league somewhere in the GTA where we can play 4-6 games a year in and Winter will look like a coaching superstar and then we can play in Amway Super Duper Cup Supreme.

Funny how people's script's change to suit the need. If we were 8-0 in league play and just lost t MTL in both games by 4-1 scores, we'd be "That CCL thing is such BS" How it should always be:

League First. (PLAY-OFFS should be the goal)
Amway Tupperwear Cup Second

Spoken like someone who hasn't been a user on the forum for very long. There have been lengthy debates on the value of winning the NCC/CCL for years here. For someone who registered a month ago, you might want to tone down the sarcasm, or at least do a cursory search first.

- Scott

nfitz
05-15-2012, 08:06 AM
i hope the vancouver fans don't come to BMO with their scary sticker campaign and rip up a few of our seats.
oh lawd, that was so scurry!! it totally took all of our supporters outt've the equitation. :rolleyes:Come on ... we have many urinals that need a little colour added to them! LOL. I just can't get over how bizarre it is to go around putting stickers on urinals, so we can piss on the Impact logo. There's some strange thinking I can't fathom there.

__wowza
05-15-2012, 08:19 AM
quick update for who we have at our disposal tomorrow:

Torsten Frings - shoulder injury, didn't travel with the team.
Miguel Aceval - out, hamstring.
Danny Koevermans - match fit.
Richard Eckersley - out on a red card for a stomp.


any news on soolsma?

ryan
05-15-2012, 08:29 AM
Why won't Soolsma play? He played on Wednesday and had some jump in his step.

I just hope that bloody Dunfield is up for this, Vancouver spurned you, be mad and do something useful other than "hoofball"!

Fort York Redcoat
05-15-2012, 08:53 AM
If the league doesn't mean anything-- why even play MLS. I'm sure there is a men's league somewhere in the GTA where we can play 4-6 games a year in and Winter will look like a coaching superstar and then we can play in Amway Super Duper Cup Supreme.

Funny how people's script's change to suit the need. If we were 8-0 in league play and just lost t MTL in both games by 4-1 scores, we'd be "That CCL thing is such BS" How it should always be:

League First. (PLAY-OFFS should be the goal)
Amway Tupperwear Cup Second


Spoken like someone who hasn't been a user on the forum for very long. There have been lengthy debates on the value of winning the NCC/CCL for years here. For someone who registered a month ago, you might want to tone down the sarcasm, or at least do a cursory search first.

- Scott

Welcome to the board, Toronto. At no time would I say the CCL is BS. You may do a search on it if you wish. It's up to you but I'd strongly suggest you do a search on the Voyageur's Cup.

Nm- here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voyageurs_Cup

here's a highlight:


The cup is awarded by the Voyageurs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Voyageurs), who were founded in 1996 as a national organization of fans of Canada men's national soccer team (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada_men%27s_national_soccer_team) at all age levels. Until 2008, costs associated with the cup, such as engraving, shipping, maintenance, and promotion had been paid for by private donations from individual members of the Voyageurs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Voyageurs). In 2008, the trophy was handed over to the Canadian Soccer Association (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Soccer_Association) to be presented to the winners of the Nutrilite Canadian Soccer Championship (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Soccer_Championship). The terms of the agreement were to be reviewed in 2010.

You wanna dig at the commercialization of the cup? Fine, but don't belittle what it's done for the game in this country.

Shakes McQueen
05-15-2012, 09:04 AM
Kind of funny to dig at the sponsorship of the tournament, when the entire EPL (arguably the biggest league in the world) is currently named after Barclays bank, and the trophy itself comes adorned with little Barclays banners.

- Scott

Canary10
05-15-2012, 10:44 AM
^ There's something slightly more dignified about Barclay's Bank than Amway though...but if you don't mind it I have a deal for you that will allow you to make great money working from home!

nfitz
05-15-2012, 10:48 AM
Surely however, there's a difference between having your national cup sponsored by a shady foreign pyramid scheme, and having your national league sponsored by on of the best known companies in the country, one of the biggest companies in the world, and an institution that dates back to the 1600s. It's hard to think of a more British private institution than Barclays - at least in the eyes of the English.

bigredone
05-15-2012, 10:53 AM
Williams out according to Sportsnet.

Shakes McQueen
05-15-2012, 10:53 AM
^ There's something slightly more dignified about Barclay's Bank than Amway though...but if you don't mind it I have a deal for you that will allow you to make great money working from home!

Yeah, if the 2008 global financial meltdown taught me anything, it's how upstanding, dignified, and ungreasy the major world banks are. Ha!

Sponsorship money is sponsorship money. There's nothing dignified about draping your trophy in advertisements, even if it's for an old bank.

- Scott

Canary10
05-15-2012, 10:56 AM
^ But they're a LEGAL pyramid scheme.

SuperTCP
05-15-2012, 10:58 AM
Hopefully Frings will be back for the 2nd leg.

Beach_Red
05-15-2012, 11:19 AM
^ But they're a LEGAL pyramid scheme.

Which one are you talking about? ;)

T-boy
05-15-2012, 11:30 AM
Hopefully Frings will be back for the 2nd leg.

By which time I'm sure Koev's will then be out injured again! :s

Yohan
05-15-2012, 11:34 AM
http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/soccer/null/Whitecaps%27%20Eric%20Hassli%20aims%20to%20get%20e ven%20with%20Toronto/6623318/story.html

Hassli wants revenge lol

ensco
05-15-2012, 11:37 AM
Yeah, if the 2008 global financial meltdown taught me anything, it's how upstanding, dignified, and ungreasy the major world banks are. Ha!

Sponsorship money is sponsorship money. There's nothing dignified about draping your trophy in advertisements, even if it's for an old bank.

- Scott

Many big institutions and many banks, behave badly. It's the story of our times.

But Barclays is still a lot better than Amway or Nutrilite.

I think MLS and the Galaxy made a serious mistake in taking the high bid from Herbalife when Beckham joined, unless Herbalife paid many millions more than the next highest bid (what do I know, maybe they did). I believe there were a lot of people who never bought that Beckham jersey solely because of the cheesy Herbalife association.

Shakes McQueen
05-15-2012, 11:48 AM
Many big institutions and many banks, behave badly. It's the story of our times.

But Barclays is still a lot better than Amway or Nutrilite.

I think MLS and the Galaxy made a serious mistake in taking the high bid from Herbalife when Beckham joined, unless Herbalife paid many millions more than the next highest bid (what do I know, maybe they did). I believe there were a lot of people who never bought that Beckham jersey solely because of the cheesy Herbalife association.

Behave badly is the understatement of a generation, haha.

- Scott

Yohan
05-15-2012, 12:03 PM
Many big institutions and many banks, behave badly. It's the story of our times.

But Barclays is still a lot better than Amway or Nutrilite.

I think MLS and the Galaxy made a serious mistake in taking the high bid from Herbalife when Beckham joined, unless Herbalife paid many millions more than the next highest bid (what do I know, maybe they did). I believe there were a lot of people who never bought that Beckham jersey solely because of the cheesy Herbalife association.
Herbalife pays a fuck ton (by MLS standars)... reupped their sponsorship deal this year 10 yrs 44 mil. in 2007, 3.5 to 5 mil per year

http://www.footballshirtculture.com/sponsorship/la-galaxy-sign-aeg-a-herbalife-jersey-deal-0708.html

http://www.businessforhome.org/2012/03/herbalife-sponsor-la-galaxy-for-44-million/
(http://www.businessforhome.org/2012/03/herbalife-sponsor-la-galaxy-for-44-million/)

Canary10
05-15-2012, 12:07 PM
Which one are you talking about? ;)

Yeah. Take your pick!

ryan
05-15-2012, 12:13 PM
Hopefully Frings will be back for the 2nd leg.

Was posted somewhere that he could play and should suit up Saturday.

jloome
05-15-2012, 12:34 PM
Is there a statistical data to backup a coach saying "my team is better than the other team" you have? Otherwise, cool story bro.


The topic at hand is a coach stating his team is good to the media, DeRo's self motivation (and your love affair to inject him into this conversation) is what's irrelevant. The coach's comments to the media is what we are discussing, so lets stay on point here.



We're talking about what the manager says to the media, so the method does matter because that's the bloody conversation.



But the coach is speaking highly of the team, so this means alot.



If losing to us last year, the miracle in Montreal and flat out dislike between cities is not enough? Rennie really needs this? Please, there's enough motivation, adding to it isn't going to give them some magical edge or provide motivation because it's lacking. Any fool can tell you Vancouver was motivated without a comment.



History also has examples of teams who found the balls to stay "we're going to win" and then did so. Pretty cool eh?



So when he (and players) did so against Montreal, that surely woke them up to the tune of 0 goals in 180 minutes. Totally on to something here.



You give it too much credit, as if it's proven fact. Choose to ignore one side of the happenings and buy into the other, much like you do with "we're lucky when we win" and "not unlucky when we lose". lolz.

LOL. Roogsy's having a passionate debate, you're having a dialectical discussion. Ergo, there will be no winners, only bloodshed.

Roogsy
05-15-2012, 12:41 PM
personally i'd take champions league success over a domestic cup any day

I find this to be a difficult point of view to agree with. This position makes sense in Europe where as the domestic champion, you get a ticket to the big show in Europe and go up against the big boys, thus the reason why it's so valued. True champions going head-to-head in a storied tournament with years of history including classic clashes and match-ups, with big money on the table with the game's biggest stars competing where if not for the tournament, you would not see Rooney pit up against former teammate Ronaldo, or Mourinho going up against former clubs in other leagues. You see English clubs go up against German clubs. Spanish clubs go up against Italian clubs. And in between you get teams from Holland, Portugal and Eastern Europe trying to break through. It's captivating.

The CONCACAF Champions League has none of that (although hopefully one day it will, that is not the situation as it is now). Up until just 4 years ago, it didn't even exist. It's predecessor competition was barely noticeable. It had no money. Teams did not take it seriously. And you can barely call the entries into the tournament "champions". You don't have history, you don't have stars and you don't have great backstories and match-ups. The most significant element of interest is American teams going up against Mexican teams, basically an extension of the Superliga, and even then, it's barely a match-up since the Mexican teams have dominated the results. It seems as if people give this tournament so much credit OVER the domestic league just because it shares the same name as it's European counterpart. And to me that is a ridiculous reason to value a tournament.

In Europe, the Champions league and it's run is a true test of a team's mettle. To simply get there is an accomplishment. And then to make a run, you have to go through some serious competition.

For Canada, to get there is barely an accomplishment. The BIGGER accomplishment is to succeed in the league and yet some value that less? Getting into the Champions League for a Canadian club requires a 4 team tournament (which was a 3 team tournament in it's first 3 years) and then beat some of the lowliest clubs on the planet in the qualifiers. The only place where the competition really has any significance is when you are either a) matched up against teams from MLS or b) matched up against teams from Mexico.

So matching up against team from MLS means something in Champions League play but not as much in MLS League play?

Impress me over a league season first and then I will start believing in the quality of the team, whether it be the players or the coaching. Show me you would be able to qualify for the Champions League on your own merit through the league and then maybe I will be more impressed with CL performance. Because entering the tournament through a competition that didn't even exist until it was necessary to "assign" a Canadian representative and was literally created last minute to satisfy CONCACAF and FIFA where you have better than a 1 in 4 chance of making it in is hardly reason for me to value it more than the league. It's almost as if we are forcing prestige on to a competition that has none. It's fake credibility. If CONCACAF had simply said that Canadian teams had to use the league for entry into the CCL, we wouldn't have gotten a sniff of it at all. We can thank the Americans for not wanting to use their allocations in the league on Canadian clubs. Not that it would have happened since no Canadian club would have ever qualified so far.

Fort York Redcoat
05-15-2012, 01:26 PM
CCL > League Play

That does not mean CCL is everything and League is nothing. It's a matter of interest.

Roogs you and Whoop among others have been touting accurately that any team will find more consistency if they win more games period. Teams can do that only in league play. It doesn't make the league more interesting.

Roogsy
05-15-2012, 01:52 PM
CCL > League Play


Yeah, but why? Because that's how it's viewed in Europe?

What makes the CONCACAF version more prestigious than the league? And why all of a sudden when before 2008, people didn't even know there was a regional competition?

joeyjones
05-15-2012, 02:09 PM
Yeah, but why? Because that's how it's viewed in Europe?

What makes the CONCACAF version more prestigious than the league? And why all of a sudden when before 2008, people didn't even know there was a regional competition?

lol, because it is a competition that TFC can actually do well in? and get into?

i would really love if this team could show the same intensity in league games. as i stated in other threads, TFC is 4-1-3 (that's W-L-D) against MLS sides in all cup competitions over the last 2 years. although that includes 2 expansion teams, FC Dallas on the downswing and a less than stellar LAG. but still, against weaker MLS sides, shouldn't our record reflect the 4-1-3 mark?

frustrating.....maybe Jimmy B can at least get the guys on the first team good haircuts...LOL!

Roogsy
05-15-2012, 02:23 PM
frustrating.....maybe Jimmy B can at least get the guys on the first team good haircuts...LOL!

Nooooooo! I haven't seen him lately, but those pictures in the paper still have him looking like the long-lost Gallagher brother from Oasis...

Greatest Ripoff
05-15-2012, 02:30 PM
Yeah, but why? Because that's how it's viewed in Europe?

For me, the CCL matches have been much more exciting than the league matches. Beating Cruz Azul at home, the qualifying round with Motagua, LA at the skye dome and then beating them on road, beating Dallas on the road, Santos Laguna at home and being 2-1 up at the half on the road, Plata as a second half substation against Real Esteli where he scored two goal including one beauty of a free kick. Not to mention, 6-1 over Montreal to win the Voyageurs Cup.

Shakes McQueen
05-15-2012, 02:32 PM
For Canada, I don't think merely getting into the CCL tournament is an accomplishment - I think making some noise once you're in, like we did this year, is.

Of course, now that Montreal and Vancouver are MLS teams, the Canadian Championship play-in might become more of a serious competition.

- Scott

Roogsy
05-15-2012, 02:37 PM
For me, the CCL matches have been much more exciting than the league matches. Beating Cruz Azul at home, the qualifying round with Motagua, LA at the skye dome and then beating them on road, beating Dallas on the road, Santos Laguna at home and being 2-1 up at the half on the road, Plata as a second half substation against Real Esteli where he scored two goal including one beauty of a free kick. Not to mention, 6-1 over Montreal to win the Voyageurs Cup.


Toronto FC have played much better in CCL competition than they have in league play. I think that is unanimously agreed. Does that factor in to how exciting those games were?

Because if TFC played against LA as badly as they played against DC, would you feel the same about how exciting those games were?

__wowza
05-15-2012, 02:47 PM
I find this to be a difficult point of view to agree with.

you don't have to agree with my point of view.
to each their own. i like CL, you like league. g:D

Fort York Redcoat
05-15-2012, 03:02 PM
Yeah, but why? Because that's how it's viewed in Europe?

What makes the CONCACAF version more prestigious than the league? And why all of a sudden when before 2008, people didn't even know there was a regional competition?

Yep and Europe's not the only place. It's regional. It gets bigger. You know this.

and just because the league is better known doesn't mean it's better. It's a progression. I suppose one could take the casual view and demean the CCL's importance because the quality of play is affected since not every team sees the tournaments potential. Or even simpler- not like the CCL because it doesn't sellout every game.

But that's ok. If you're satisfied with building a strong league and that's it- so be it. I've pointed out before I find that NA thought to be insular.

I guess I'm surprised someone who was at the beginning of something and has seen growth since 07 to doubt that the CCL could be greater. But I'm surprised by that whole "I'll go when there's enough people interested" mentality.

Please let me know if you agree/disagree. I'd like to hear your take.

Oh and this tournament didn't exist as it is as I'm sure you know. The CC (Cup) was all elimination and had less teams involved so I'd say it's grown in popularity already.

Fort York Redcoat
05-15-2012, 03:05 PM
Toronto FC have played much better in CCL competition than they have in league play. I think that is unanimously agreed. Does that factor in to how exciting those games were?

Because if TFC played against LA as badly as they played against DC, would you feel the same about how exciting those games were?

You don't even have to bring quality of play into it. It's more exciting on principle it's a shorter tournament with exotic teams we may not play for years.

Greatest Ripoff
05-15-2012, 03:18 PM
Because if TFC played against LA as badly as they played against DC, would you feel the same about how exciting those games were?

Not really sure what you mean by this but all I know is I have some great memories about some exciting ties in the CCL. More than I have from league play. I am not trying to say one is better than the other but you asked why someone would enjoy the CCL more.

MartinUtd
05-15-2012, 03:33 PM
Game thread, anyone?

As for Hassli and his "we stole the cup" argument, we were all over them and I guarantee we would have bagged a couple of goals with the way the match was going. VC was tired, frustrated and couldn't hold possession for more than 15 seconds at time. I'm glad he's whining about it to the press because that means the pressure is on him.

trane
05-15-2012, 04:28 PM
Now that Brennan is the assistant coach, I feel so much better.


Everything has been fixed. We are winning this game 4-0.

ryan
05-15-2012, 05:33 PM
Game thread, anyone?

As for Hassli and his "we stole the cup" argument, we were all over them and I guarantee we would have bagged a couple of goals with the way the match was going. VC was tired, frustrated and couldn't hold possession for more than 15 seconds at time. I'm glad he's whining about it to the press because that means the pressure is on him.

He does have pressure on him, he's had a poor year as far as I'm concerned. Bad discipline, his recent goals were pretty blah...you get enough shots yer bound to score eventually..

He needs to deliver here for them and he knows it. Weather is supposed to be beauty all next week, so no excuses when Frings is parading our Cup around the pitch.

T-boy
05-15-2012, 05:53 PM
Hasn't Hassli now scored in 3 out of his last 4 games? He definitely seems to have found form. When a striker starts scoring, even if its crappy looking goals, or they are going in off his butt, its always a bad time to play against him!

T-boy
05-15-2012, 05:53 PM
Now that Brennan is the assistant coach, I feel so much better.


Everything has been fixed. We are winning this game 4-0.

No WAY!

It's going to be at least 6-0!

Dv23
05-15-2012, 06:07 PM
I want to say 2-1, Toronto wins. But my gut tells me it'll be a 2-1 loss.

Jeffro
05-15-2012, 06:35 PM
-------------Kocic------------
Ecks-----Cann---Henry--Morgan
--------Stinson--DeGuz-------
Soolsma------Avila-------Lambe
-----------Johnson------------

I'd like to see us in a 4-2-3-1 for a cup game on the road, set up well to defend and counter, but can easily turn into a 4-3-3 if things are going well, or 4-5-1 if we're under a lot of pressure. We need a stronger midfield presence considering our midfield had been largely nonexistent for much of this season. Bring in Koevermans and Plata later on to keep possession or go for a goal if needed, possibly Dunfield for some muscle. Don't want to see defence for 90 minutes like in Montreal, fresh attacking players if holding on in the second half can help keep the ball further from our net, whereas defensive subs surrender possession to the other team meaning more pressure on a weak backline, and more chances to concede.

Wrong thread?

Roogsy
05-15-2012, 07:07 PM
I want to say 2-1, Toronto wins. But my gut tells me it'll be a 2-1 loss.

This is not an altogether bad result. If TFC come back home and win 1-0 we're through.

ensco
05-15-2012, 07:10 PM
3-1 Vancouver. But we will make a game of it in Toronto. They're not that good.

ChrisFizik
05-15-2012, 07:36 PM
not expecting amazing things but would love to be pleasantly surprised with a goal or two.

Totally slipped my mind that the match was at 10. Gotta keep fighting the good late night fight. heh
Shoeless yeah?

MartinUtd
05-15-2012, 07:47 PM
-------------Kocic------------
Ecks-----Cann---Henry--Morgan
--------Stinson--DeGuz-------
Soolsma------Avila-------Lambe
-----------Johnson------------

I'd like to see us in a 4-2-3-1 for a cup game on the road, set up well to defend and counter, but can easily turn into a 4-3-3 if things are going well, or 4-5-1 if we're under a lot of pressure. We need a stronger midfield presence considering our midfield had been largely nonexistent for much of this season. Bring in Koevermans and Plata later on to keep possession or go for a goal if needed, possibly Dunfield for some muscle. Don't want to see defence for 90 minutes like in Montreal, fresh attacking players if holding on in the second half can help keep the ball further from our net, whereas defensive subs surrender possession to the other team meaning more pressure on a weak backline, and more chances to concede.

Wrong thread?

Is Koevermans good to start? If so I'd get him in there. RJ plays with his head down too often and I'd only like to see him in the centre forward position if we absolutely have to. I like your midfield though. I wonder if Dunfield would be better suited to start over Stinson? I thought Dunfield was the bigger of the two but after checking the roster page, I noticed they're both listed at 5'10" 165lbs. Either way, I'd prefer to inject Stinson's energy into the second half.

Redpunkfiddle
05-15-2012, 08:05 PM
The strategy is obvious. Go for the 0-0 draw in Vancouver, and then go for the eyes back home. Genius.

Oldtimer
05-15-2012, 09:45 PM
Vancouver is taking this match really seriously:

http://www.canadiansoccernews.com/content.php?3223-What-winning-the-Voyageurs-Cup-means-to-Whitecaps

Yohan
05-16-2012, 01:50 AM
I think it'll be something like this

-------------Kocic
-Hall-Henry-Cann-Morgan
---------JDG--Dunfield
------------Avila
Soolsma-----------Lambe
-----------Johnson

If Winter is playing more defensive, Koevermans in for Johnson, though may not want to risk Koevermans so recently back from injury in starter role.
Plata may get a start, esp after playing better vs Mtl, but Soolsma is the best winger, and hard to take out Lambe after he scored a goal.

Fort York Redcoat
05-16-2012, 06:23 AM
Shoeless yeah?

Shoeless. Yeah.

I'll be there with Canada tix.

Furtado91
05-16-2012, 06:40 AM
COME ON YOU REDS!!!!!. I believe in the guys. They can win this.

TORONTO TILL I DIE.

Section 117
05-16-2012, 07:07 AM
Come on you Reds!!! It's game day....

Let's go and stomp on Vancouver and show them that we are still DEFENDING CHAMPIONS of the Amway/Nutrilite Cup.

We will win 2-1 late goal by Plata to win it and Kocic will have the game of his life and we will rattle those pieces of trash

Gazza
05-16-2012, 07:39 AM
Game thread, anyone?

As for Hassli and his "we stole the cup" argument, we were all over them and I guarantee we would have bagged a couple of goals with the way the match was going. VC was tired, frustrated and couldn't hold possession for more than 15 seconds at time. I'm glad he's whining about it to the press because that means the pressure is on him.

Now that he is belittling us in the press, this can only bode well for TFC. We finally have the advantage we've been looking for!

Gazza
05-16-2012, 07:41 AM
The strategy is obvious. Go for the 0-0 draw in Vancouver, and then go for the eyes back home. Genius.

Winter wants to bag an away goal. Scares me a bit with the line-up we're fielding.

ryan
05-16-2012, 08:17 AM
Now that he is belittling us in the press, this can only bode well for TFC. We finally have the advantage we've been looking for!

Oh wow, we get that magical motivation too!

I wonder if the Southsiders are ranting and raving that we're going to be ultra motivated and kill them because of what he said!

Brooker
05-16-2012, 08:30 AM
very important cup. The caps would join a worldwide tournament that includes city, man u, arsenal, barca, madrid, juventus, and all the world's champions. A tournament which culminates in morocco next year.

so very epic. I can't even sleep because of the anticipation for tomorrow night.



Bah... Do we have a new format this year? What the hell is going on?

I must admit, it is funny to see how frustrated they are for not winning it in all those tries when Montreal and us have sometimes fallen ass backwards into it. :D

T-boy
05-16-2012, 09:42 AM
you don't have to agree with my point of view.
to each their own. i like CL, you like league. g:D

Why I think its a bit strange to like CL over the league - is that CL is 10% of the season, and the league is the other 90%.

I'd personally prefer to have success in the majority of games, not the much smaller minority. I'd prefer to have a whole season where we are at the top of the league, and I wouldn't care if we are knocked out of the cup first round.

Otherwise why do we all have season tickets? Why don't we just get tickets to the cup games only?

Fort York Redcoat
05-16-2012, 09:49 AM
^Same with playoffs?

trane
05-16-2012, 10:04 AM
No WAY!

It's going to be at least 6-0!

You are right, that sounds much more reasonable. 6-0 it is. We are play off bound.

Carts
05-16-2012, 10:09 AM
Otherwise why do we all have season tickets? Why don't we just get tickets to the cup games only?

That's an easy question...

1. I want us to win every game we play - so I'm there to support them.
But obviously I want them to win certain games more than others (Cup Games, Playoff Games, Meaningfull Reg Season Match, Non-Meaningfull Reg-Season Match, Friendly)...

2. I LOVE GOING... I think people forget the fun/enjoyment factor sometimes...
Yes we're there to support the team - but I also ENJOY supporting the team....


I have season tickets because I love to go, love to support, love seeing my friends, love watching live footy... But yes, there are some games I am DESPERATE for us to win (vs Santos or vs LA), some game I REALLY WANT to win (vs Columbus/Montreal or 3pts makes the playoffs) and some games where a loss hurts, its not as big a deal (a random July match vs Portland etc)...

Carts...

Roogsy
05-16-2012, 10:17 AM
I am really excited about tonight. At least we can never say there is not enough drama around TFC. You will be able to write entire novels and movie scripts about this club.

A draw would make for a CRAZY can't miss game at BMO Field...again...

T-boy
05-16-2012, 10:20 AM
That's an easy question...

1. I want us to win every game we play - so I'm there to support them.
But obviously I want them to win certain games more than others (Cup Games, Playoff Games, Meaningfull Reg Season Match, Non-Meaningfull Reg-Season Match, Friendly)...

2. I LOVE GOING... I think people forget the fun/enjoyment factor sometimes...
Yes we're there to support the team - but I also ENJOY supporting the team....


I have season tickets because I love to go, love to support, love seeing my friends, love watching live footy... But yes, there are some games I am DESPERATE for us to win (vs Santos or vs LA), some game I REALLY WANT to win (vs Columbus/Montreal or 3pts makes the playoffs) and some games where a loss hurts, its not as big a deal (a random July match vs Portland etc)...

Carts...

I suspect your opinion is the same as a lot of TFC fans. And I think its partly a "north american" thing to think of the lesser games (portland at home mid season) aren't as important as some others.

But I'm of the mind that these lesser games ARE the ones we need to REALLY win. Beating the crappy teams at home mid season is a must if TFC are going to get to the play offs any season. These are the games we need to support, and these are the games that we need to be seriously pissed off if we don't win.

I agree that some games may be more exciting on paper, but the lesser games are sometimes the more important games in the season.

Carts
05-16-2012, 10:28 AM
I suspect your opinion is the same as a lot of TFC fans. And I think its partly a "north american" thing to think of the lesser games (portland at home mid season) aren't as important as some others.

But I'm of the mind that these lesser games ARE the ones we need to REALLY win. Beating the crappy teams at home mid season is a must if TFC are going to get to the play offs any season. These are the games we need to support, and these are the games that we need to be seriously pissed off if we don't win.

I agree that some games may be more exciting on paper, but the lesser games are sometimes the more important games in the season.

I don't consider those games meaningless - the "meaningless" ones are "6pts needed to make playoffs - we have one game left"... I obviously want to win a CCL game more than that game...

Nothing to do with North America... Ask any player in the BPL - they want to win certain games more than others...

Liverpool is in 6th place... 13pts out of 4th...
They have 2-games left... vs Manchester United and vs Bolton...
Trust me, they want to beat United more than Bolton...

Any league, any team, any continent, some games mean more than others - whether its pts remaining, rivalries, cup games, etc...
SOME MEAN MORE...

Carts...

ManUtd4ever
05-16-2012, 10:53 AM
Other than the Canadian Championship and CCL matches over the last few years, what else has there been to get excited about as a supporter of this club?

Ben - D.O.W.
05-16-2012, 11:01 AM
Game day? Every single one, home or away? Sure it might look hopeless but don't you still get at least a little excited - isn't that why we're supporters?

__wowza
05-16-2012, 11:11 AM
Why I think its a bit strange to like CL over the league - is that CL is 10% of the season, and the league is the other 90%.

I'd personally prefer to have success in the majority of games, not the much smaller minority. I'd prefer to have a whole season where we are at the top of the league, and I wouldn't care if we are knocked out of the cup first round.

Otherwise why do we all have season tickets? Why don't we just get tickets to the cup games only?

liking one doesn't mean i write off the other. i would enjoy picking up some wins during league play, but having said that i'd be more disappointed with us near the top of the table with no champions league success vs. us being midlevel with a semi-final spot. all i know is that some of our most memorable matches have come in, or on the road to the champions league. the montreal game, the LA games, beating dallas, beating vancity, beating cruz azul.. these are some of the most entertaining games ive ever watched, the crowd was hot for the entire match. carts said it best with the league play, the rest is a personal preference i guess.

ManUtd4ever
05-16-2012, 11:23 AM
Game day? Every single one, home or away? Sure it might look hopeless but don't you still get at least a little excited - isn't that why we're supporters?

With the exception of the 2009 season and the first half of the 2010 season, the overhelming majority of league matches since our inaugral season have essentially been meaningless. Sure, I still got fired up when TFC beat Columbus late last season in a game that meant nothing in the standings, but for the most part, if it were not for our limited success in the NCC and CCL, I probably would have hung myself by now.

Stress
05-16-2012, 11:51 AM
For those that are interested, here's how Bet365 has the game priced:

Vancouver - 1.66
Draw -3.40
Toronto - 4.50

A Draw at halftime and TFC to win in fulltime pays 10. Might take a cheeky punt on it.

Jeffro
05-16-2012, 12:01 PM
Is Koevermans good to start? If so I'd get him in there. RJ plays with his head down too often and I'd only like to see him in the centre forward position if we absolutely have to. I like your midfield though. I wonder if Dunfield would be better suited to start over Stinson? I thought Dunfield was the bigger of the two but after checking the roster page, I noticed they're both listed at 5'10" 165lbs. Either way, I'd prefer to inject Stinson's energy into the second half.

Personally I wouldn't start Koevermans in such a big match coming back from injury, since I doubt he's 100% fit. I'd rather see him play for 25-30mins. As for Dunfield, he's far too mistake prone, gives the ball away far too much with what should be simple passes in the midfield, and finds himself out of position far too often. Didn't mind him coming on in a sort of destroyer role against Montreal.

KGH
05-16-2012, 12:34 PM
--------Kocic
-Hall-Henry-Cann-Morgan
---------JDG--Dunfield
------------Avila
Soolsma-----------Johnson
-----------Koev

We pay way too much to have Koev sitting if he's healthy.

Then at the 60 make the following (All speed related to take advantage of tired people and I imagine we'll be pushing to score away goals):

--------Kocic
-Hall-Henry-Cann-Morgan
---------JDG--------
-----Avila---Silva---
Lambe-----------Plata
-------Johnson

T-boy
05-16-2012, 01:09 PM
I don't consider those games meaningless - the "meaningless" ones are "6pts needed to make playoffs - we have one game left"... I obviously want to win a CCL game more than that game...

Nothing to do with North America... Ask any player in the BPL - they want to win certain games more than others...

Liverpool is in 6th place... 13pts out of 4th...
They have 2-games left... vs Manchester United and vs Bolton...
Trust me, they want to beat United more than Bolton...

Any league, any team, any continent, some games mean more than others - whether its pts remaining, rivalries, cup games, etc...
SOME MEAN MORE...

Carts...

Oh, I completely agree.

I think I was just saying that at this point TFC need to look to every game as an end of season 6 pointer, whether its against a local rival or against Boring FC (I mean Portland, haha!).

Jeffro
05-16-2012, 01:11 PM
We pay way too much to have Koev sitting if he's healthy.


That's a big if. He hasn't played a match in a while, he may be cleared to play, but I doubt he's match fit for 90 minutes. Personally I don't like starting guys you know you'll have to sub out. I'd rather see him run out for 30 or so, giving more options for who gets subbed out based on tactical situations. Last thing we need is to push him for 90 and get him injured again.

Yohan
05-16-2012, 01:23 PM
We pay way too much to have Koev sitting if he's healthy.
I hate this attitude. Salary shouldn't be an indicator whether you have a lock on starting lineup or not

bigredone
05-16-2012, 01:45 PM
--------Kocic
-Hall-Henry-Cann-Morgan
---------JDG--Dunfield
------------Avila
Soolsma-----------Johnson
-----------Koev

We pay way too much to have Koev sitting if he's healthy.

Then at the 60 make the following (All speed related to take advantage of tired people and I imagine we'll be pushing to score away goals):

--------Kocic
-Hall-Henry-Cann-Morgan
---------JDG--------
-----Avila---Silva---
Lambe-----------Plata
-------Johnson

I like it and think it will work. Cann and Henry look pretty good as of late and should help with the brick wall in front of Kocic. I would like to see Plata start to fire home a few and perhaps bring in some fancy footwork from Soolsma later in the game. Koev's endurance is a concern though.

trane
05-16-2012, 01:52 PM
I am really excited about tonight. At least we can never say there is not enough drama around TFC. You will be able to write entire novels and movie scripts about this club.

A draw would make for a CRAZY can't miss game at BMO Field...again...


That is just it. We are shit, like 90 % of the time, but there is just enough to play for that it keeps you hooked. But the FO takes advantage of that interest. despite everything I am already planning how to get out early of late meetings so that I can see this one.

Dreadlocks
05-16-2012, 02:08 PM
I'd like to see Lambe in the first 11. I think he's earned it with his 3 goals in all competitions and mostly positive play. Why not start Kovermans with Lambe and Soolsma (I know they are both right sided players) and sub Koev in like the 60th for Johnson? Over-playing guys is bad and I believe Johnson has played just about every match and could use the rest. Especially going into a 'must win' on the weekend vs Dero United.

Dreadlocks
05-16-2012, 02:17 PM
--------Kocic

-Hall-Henry-Cann-Morgan

-------JDG--Dunfield

---------Avila

Soolsma-----------Lambe

-----------Koev

Subs

--------Kocic

-Hall-Henry-Cann-Morgan

-------JDG--Stinson/Silva**

---------Avila

Lambe-----------Plata

-----------Johnson

**Sub Stinson if we're up or Silva if we're not.

FreekAce
05-16-2012, 02:31 PM
I like it and think it will work. Cann and Henry look pretty good as of late and should help with the brick wall in front of Kocic. I would like to see Plata start to fire home a few and perhaps bring in some fancy footwork from Soolsma later in the game. Koev's endurance is a concern though.

i could also go for some lambe on a silva plata tonight...

OgtheDim
05-16-2012, 02:36 PM
A 2-2 draw would suit me fine.

bigredone
05-16-2012, 03:56 PM
i could also go for some lambe on a silva plata tonight...

That does sound tasty. It also sounds a little undercooked (ripe for another food reference).

bigredone
05-16-2012, 04:01 PM
TFC website "Road to the Champions League" - VWC website "Road to the FIFA Club World Cup"

*Gotta admire it*

OgtheDim
05-16-2012, 04:23 PM
TFC website "Road to the Champions League" - VWC website "Road to the FIFA Club World Cup"

*Gotta admire it*

VWC hasn't experienced going head to head against Mexican teams with abjectly ignorant referees.

Ignorance is what I'd call it................ignorance of the joys of Cuban refs and Panamanian synchronised diving.

The CCL is not about winning it all, its about the process.

VWC doesn't get that yet. Impact and TFC do.

Chubbs
05-16-2012, 04:53 PM
Is this game being broadcast at all? Having trouble finding info on how to watch tonight....

mowe
05-16-2012, 05:01 PM
^ 10 pm on Sportsnet ONE. Pre-game show starts 9:30.

ChrisFizik
05-16-2012, 05:02 PM
Yeah it's being broadcast on Sportsnet One...
Think I'm gonna opt for that (or a stream) rather than Shoeless

Chubbs
05-16-2012, 05:02 PM
Damn.
Now the real question is Shoeless or a stream...

Greatest Ripoff
05-16-2012, 05:10 PM
Do none of you have sportsnet one? I noticed on my rogers guide that SN1 is on a free trial fro the rest of the year. Not sure if that helps anyone.

bigredone
05-16-2012, 05:38 PM
VWC hasn't experienced going head to head against Mexican teams with abjectly ignorant referees.

Ignorance is what I'd call it................ignorance of the joys of Cuban refs and Panamanian synchronised diving.

The CCL is not about winning it all, its about the process.

VWC doesn't get that yet. Impact and TFC do.

You're right, especially for Canadian teams. Playing on a world (or continental) stage is our current peak (aside from our glorious world cup go). Being at this point is fantastic, but getting there made me feel like Zhukov after getting to Berlin. (not a reference to the red tide at all, just the generals feelings)

ouderwien
05-16-2012, 06:22 PM
Quickly, is there actually anywhere people get together to watch the game in Barrie. I'm home visiting my mom tonight.

Fort York Redcoat
05-16-2012, 07:19 PM
TFC website "Road to the Champions League" - VWC website "Road to the FIFA Club World Cup"

*Gotta admire it*

Awwwwwwwyeaahhhh!!! They're doin it RIGHT!




Damn.
Now the real question is Shoeless or a stream...

I'll be there. Prolly boothing it.

[NBF]
05-16-2012, 07:56 PM
Evening, what are the prospective lineups for tonight? and as an aside if they lose by such a massive margin that they can't possibly come back to make it at least penalties, would they be nutty enough to fire Aron Winter?

Dkolish3
05-16-2012, 07:59 PM
I know we're gonna lose, so I'm just hoping for an away goal.

Greatest Ripoff
05-16-2012, 08:00 PM
Toronto FC ‏@torontofc (http://twitter.com/#%21/torontofc) #TorontoFC (http://twitter.com/#%21/search/%23TorontoFC) XI: Kocic; Hall, Cann, Henry, Morgan; Dunfield, de Guzman, Avila; Lambe, Johnson, Plata

Toronto FC ‏@torontofc (http://twitter.com/#%21/torontofc)
#TorontoFC (http://twitter.com/#%21/search/%23TorontoFC) substitutes: Roberts; Harden, Emory, Stinson, Silva, Soolsma, Koevermans

ryan
05-16-2012, 08:01 PM
Hassli not starting, neither is DK. Interesting to see how these big men get into the mix, if at all.

[NBF]
05-16-2012, 08:13 PM
Koevermans not starting is depressing specially versus a better opponent who has the luxury to sit one of their best strikers. Starting Dunfield in the midfield will be our blackhole for today. I think DeGuzman sitting infront of the two centre backs was the smarter choice. He also should have started Silva in the lineup. I can Silva coming on early for Dunfield and Koevermans for either Plata or Lambe.

LesH
05-16-2012, 08:15 PM
Anyone found yet streams to watch outside Canada?

Game not scheduled at firstrowsports or atdhe until now... :(

Suds
05-16-2012, 08:21 PM
Anyone found yet streams to watch outside Canada?

Game not scheduled at firstrowsports or atdhe until now... :(

atdhe has the game listed - http://atdhenet.tv/

not sure if the stream works outside Canada

LesH
05-16-2012, 08:31 PM
thanks.
I wonder if it wasn't there yet 15 mins ago, or I didn't see it, lol.

If it's on adthenet, you can see it anywhere.

Only direct TV streams are geo blocked.

ChrisFizik
05-16-2012, 08:41 PM
Do none of you have sportsnet one? I noticed on my rogers guide that SN1 is on a free trial fro the rest of the year. Not sure if that helps anyone.

Never noticed this at all -- PRO-TIP

thx!

__wowza
05-16-2012, 08:51 PM
anyone have any streams?

boozilla
05-16-2012, 08:55 PM
anyone have any streams?
Possibly here:

http://www.atdhenet.tv/47217/watch-vancouver-whitecaps-vs-toronto-fc

Yohan
05-16-2012, 09:12 PM
http://atdhenet.tv/47217/watch-vancouver-whitecaps-vs-toronto-fc

ag futbol
05-16-2012, 09:13 PM
Hall on a yellow already... crap. Right side of D is having issues with Camilo


We need this game badly

Yohan
05-16-2012, 09:16 PM
Hall on a yellow already... crap. Right side of D is having issues with Camilo


We need this game badly
not a fan of Camilo. skillful, but goes down a little too easily... kinda like one barros schelotto

Yohan
05-16-2012, 09:17 PM
was that hall who got pwned by rochat?. never mind. it was JDG

ag futbol
05-16-2012, 09:17 PM
^ No it was De Guzman

Richard
05-16-2012, 09:17 PM
All we are doing is longball:facepalm:

Eastend
05-16-2012, 09:21 PM
Not impressive by TFC so far. A lot of chasing.

Eastend
05-16-2012, 09:22 PM
White

Caps

White

Caps

Really?

Furtado91
05-16-2012, 09:23 PM
they are totally copying our chants and stuff. FUCK VANCOUVER!!!!!!. ahhaha :P.

razor787
05-16-2012, 09:25 PM
they are totally copying our chants and stuff. FUCK VANCOUVER!!!!!!. ahhaha :P.

What chants would those be? Most of the chants we do were stolen from other teams, I don't believe we have very many unique ones.

Yohan
05-16-2012, 09:26 PM
White

Caps

White

Caps

Really?
is it any worse than tfc clap clap clap?

iy12l
05-16-2012, 09:26 PM
man Dunfield sucks...

Eastend
05-16-2012, 09:26 PM
More like:

Seattle

Sounders

ag futbol
05-16-2012, 09:26 PM
This ref is soooo out of his depth it is ridiculous

Yohan
05-16-2012, 09:27 PM
damn. dunfield almost sticks it to vancouver

MartinUtd
05-16-2012, 09:27 PM
Some brutal long ball from both sides today

Bluenose13
05-16-2012, 09:27 PM
Can't get a stream to work on the iPad outside of Canada.......keep the updates coming please!

Eastend
05-16-2012, 09:28 PM
is it any worse than tfc clap clap clap?

As bad.

iy12l
05-16-2012, 09:29 PM
This game shows the difference between a youth academy coach and a real coach

Yohan
05-16-2012, 09:29 PM
Some brutal long ball from both sides today

i hate turf

razor787
05-16-2012, 09:29 PM
what a shit corner

Eastend
05-16-2012, 09:29 PM
Can't get a stream to work on the iPad outside of Canada.......keep the updates coming please!

We're not losing......on the scoreboard anyway.

MartinUtd
05-16-2012, 09:29 PM
Avila and Lambe with some good combinations but can't get the final touch in front of the box.

Furtado91
05-16-2012, 09:30 PM
What chants would those be? Most of the chants we do were stolen from other teams, I don't believe we have very many unique ones.

It was a joke, hence the hahaha :P. I know half our chants is taken from other teams.

MartinUtd
05-16-2012, 09:30 PM
Was that Hall that gave the ball away when he had a clear run at the net?

ag futbol
05-16-2012, 09:31 PM
Get that fucking useless pos dunfield off the field!

How do you play professionally and have so little skill????? Uuugggghhhhhh

Bluenose13
05-16-2012, 09:31 PM
is it any worse than tfc clap clap clap?
That's about the only thing that the entire stadium try's to do.

MartinUtd
05-16-2012, 09:32 PM
Dunfield is being dunfield again (short passing turns into a big hoof over the top to nobody)

Yohan
05-16-2012, 09:32 PM
wow. was that lambe with that crazy run through 3 defenders?

iy12l
05-16-2012, 09:33 PM
plz put silva or stinson on and take off duncefield

Yohan
05-16-2012, 09:33 PM
free header from cann straight at keeper from lambe corner. terrible marking from vancouver

razor787
05-16-2012, 09:33 PM
It was a joke, hence the hahaha :P. I know half our chants is taken from other teams.

Alright my bad, another case of internet humor escaping me :P

On another note, good header from Cann

Furtado91
05-16-2012, 09:33 PM
all Le Toux does is whine and bitch. SUCK IT UP PRINCESS.

Yohan
05-16-2012, 09:34 PM
morgan having a good game on left so far. solid defending

iy12l
05-16-2012, 09:35 PM
plata + avila + lambe making good combos

bigredone
05-16-2012, 09:35 PM
plz put silva or stinson on and take off duncefield

yes!!!!!!!!!!!!! and more firepower!!!!!!!!!!!!

Silva and Koevs for Plata and that dunguy

Yohan
05-16-2012, 09:35 PM
toronto starting to have more possession but crosses from flanks have been terrible

ag futbol
05-16-2012, 09:35 PM
Maybe this is just me being a snob, but I'd expect a better showing from their fans considering they have a good team this year and they've really had a hard on for the V's cup for a while.

bman27
05-16-2012, 09:35 PM
Fiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight....... and wiiiiiiiiiinnnnnnnnnnnnnnn

Furtado91
05-16-2012, 09:35 PM
Alright my bad, another case of internet humor escaping me :P

On another note, good header from Cann

its cool. Its hard to see it sometimes ahaha. Though i will always remember hearing a chant in a european match thinking it was unique to us only to find out we stole it from them. fucker hit me like a brick wall ahahahhaa.

Yohan
05-16-2012, 09:37 PM
a little slopping passing from vancouver from back and jdg with a blast from 30 yds that was wide

MartinUtd
05-16-2012, 09:37 PM
JDG tries from 25 yards.. misses by about 10

bigredone
05-16-2012, 09:38 PM
Maybe this is just me being a snob, but I'd expect a better showing from their fans considering they have a good team this year and they've really had a hard on for the V's cup for a while.

Ya! We should scare the shit outta the few that come here that their caps turn white

Yohan
05-16-2012, 09:38 PM
Maybe this is just me being a snob, but I'd expect a better showing from their fans considering they have a good team this year and they've really had a hard on for the V's cup for a while.
i think the shitecaps want this more than their fans lol

iy12l
05-16-2012, 09:38 PM
were getting more possession now

Dkolish3
05-16-2012, 09:39 PM
My favourite of all time has got to be WE ARE....PENN STATE!!! Shut up its a football Chant.;)

Yohan
05-16-2012, 09:39 PM
lol. this ref blows another call

iy12l
05-16-2012, 09:41 PM
dunfield you son of a bitch stop with all these giveaways!

Yohan
05-16-2012, 09:41 PM
jdg is so physically weak. can't play DM in MLS

Thomas
05-16-2012, 09:42 PM
We can win this game. Keep Silva on the bench for now.

MartinUtd
05-16-2012, 09:42 PM
Is it just me or does Jeremy Hall suck at everything?

Yohan
05-16-2012, 09:45 PM
Johnson's header, nice save from Cannon. Hall looks decent at RB so far

Couchy81
05-16-2012, 09:45 PM
is it any worse than tfc clap clap clap?

Toron

Toe

Toron

Toe

Toron

Toe

Richard
05-16-2012, 09:45 PM
Is it just me or does Jeremy Hall suck at everything?

One week he is making beast tackles the next he is shit. LOL

Thomas
05-16-2012, 09:45 PM
Hall is far from perfect, but some of his moves have been alright.

Yohan
05-16-2012, 09:46 PM
yikes. crazy scramble in the box and tfc manages to clear

bigredone
05-16-2012, 09:46 PM
They said "not to many mistakes on both sides"

What about our 45 min. of Dunfield, that is a huge mistake.

Oldtimer
05-16-2012, 09:46 PM
Not too shambolic first half.

maxpower
05-16-2012, 09:47 PM
Anybody else takin' how small we are in midfield? makes me remember the days when Tony Tchani was roaming our midfield, doing his best Balotelli Impression.

What did we get for him? Actually...never mind, don't answer that....

MartinUtd
05-16-2012, 09:47 PM
I take it back.. good cross by hall, even better header by Johnson. Still though, there were some pretty bad giveaways when he was barely under pressure.