Frings

[Rudy]

A few facts:
1. made a few mistakes after his return from injruy, including one that cost a goal, and another missed penalty kick.
2. His mid-field skills and free kicks are definitely no David Beckham's.
3. I dont understand what happened at today's game. he threw his captain band on the pitch, and walked out showing total disrespect to the game, to the referree, to the coach, to his sub, to his back-up captain, and to the fans. what was that all about?

and one kther thing... why is it that his interviews are all audio only? just curious....

[tfcleeds]

Funny, regarding your third point, that really isn't the impression I got. Didn't he get injured again? I sensed it was frustration over that.

[denime]

A few facts:
1. made a few mistakes after his return from injruy, including one that cost a goal, and another missed penalty kick.
2. His mid-field skills and free kicks are definitely no David Beckham's.
3. I dont understand what happened at today's game. he threw his captain band on the pitch, and walked out showing total disrespect to the game, to the referree, to the coach, to his sub, to his back-up captain, and to the fans. what was that all about?

and one kther thing... why is it that his interviews are all audio only? just curious....

Collarbone injury that what happened today,he was in pain and wanted out,after ref did not stopped the game he kicked the ball out and went to the locker room.Previously he was already on the sideline and physiotherapist checked him,it was obvious he can not play like that.

[Richard]

I wouldnt look to hard into him throwing the band down. The man is a legend and all class, I think its more fustration as getting re-injured and not being able to help the team is whats killing him. Also I dont think he is comfortable speaking English infront of a camera and he said he avoids media when possible.

[Blizzard]

3. I dont understand what happened at today's game. he threw his captain band on the pitch, and walked out showing total disrespect to the game, to the referree, to the coach, to his sub, to his back-up captain, and to the fans. what was that all about?


Were you at the game Rudy? He was injured on one of our corners when a teammate crashed into him jamming his shoulder. It was obvious he'd been injured. It was replayed on the screens at least once. At the first opportunity, he was at the bench being looked at by the physio. He went back on for a few minutes to see how it was and then when it was obvious he couldn't continue, he booted the ball out of bounds and headed for the locker room asap with the physio immediately following.

Anybody who was watching the match would have seen all of this taking place. Your "facts" are your own assumptions and way off base.

[prizby]

i didn't know we could make things up and call them facts

[Pookie]

... in addition, when he kicked the ball out there was a hurt DC player down on the pitch that a few DC players were pointing to

[69Chevy396]

I like Frings, but no way he can be pleased with his decision to pick this horrible organization for his move to North America. Why would anybody want to play here? Mention Toronto anywhere on the Continent and any reference to our pro clubs is coloured by derision, mockery, laughter insults. We are known as the worst city for being a pro sports fan, and it is mostly due to the ghosts of Harold Ballard, Steve Stavros and the current bag of human shit that runs mlse. Frings would probably leave if he could get out of his contract, and it is doubtful we will ever see another German player on this team anytime soon.

[jazzy]

I saw McDonald bend his arm back, not unlike a rotator cuff tear ,...McDonald showed no class, to a vet, and off course the ref missed it.......the way he called the game, led to injuries.......his shoulder slumped,....AND THAT KILLS......he's still giving it his ask for a crap organization........don't shit on him, AND HE IS THE MAIN MAN TO COME OVER ADD ACKNOWLEDGE the fans.......shit on Mlse, Anselmi,, ...not the players,.....MLSE is left in corporate 50,s , which seems to exist esp in Toronto.......where money stagnates
creativity,....tired of the old school

[ArmenJBX]

Two words:
Ice. Packs.

All over his shoulder/collar bone. Frings is hurt.

[TorontoGooner]

I'm going to stir the pot here. He's had enough. It's not the way he wanted to end his career, and who can blame him.

We may never see him play for us again. You heard it here first

[Rudy]

i didn't know we could make things up and call them facts

#1 and #2 are facts; can you dispute them? #3 - fact is i didnt know what had transpired, and i ASKED "what was this all about?" it appeared wrong that he threw his captain band and walked off the pitch, and i asked for clarification....

[ensco]

We may never see him play for us again. You heard it here first

There is truth to this observation. I sense he likes the anonymity of playing here, likes our city ... but this is a waste of his time. Trade him to Chicago or something.

[DOMIN8R]

Rudi,

As per The Star this morning...


Making matters worse for TFC, Torsten Frings left the game in the 67th minute after colliding with teammate Doneil Henry in the D.C. goalmouth on a corner kick and injuring his shoulder. He threw down the captain’s armband on the field when leaving.
“I did not mean anything negative when I removed the armband,” Frings, who will be further evaluated, said in a statement post game. “I was in pain and had to leave the field for treatment.
“I have too much respect for the club, my teammates and the position for it to mean anything else.”


For what it's worth.

[OgtheDim]

I think his meaning of "club" might be different then Anselmi and MLSE's idea of what that means.

[lazyjason]

I was at the game and when Frings came to the sideline to be checked out I saw him say "broken" and then they sent him back out! Shortly after that he walked off the field and right into the locker room. It was clear something was wrong and I think, yes he was frustrated he couldn't help his team being hurt and all, but at the same time I think he was pissed at the Coach for keeping him in there.

[DR HOLLIDAY]

I was at the game and when Frings came to the sideline to be checked out I saw him say "broken" and then they sent him back out! Shortly after that he walked off the field and right into the locker room. It was clear something was wrong and I think, yes he was frustrated he couldn't help his team being hurt and all, but at the same time I think he was pissed at the Coach for keeping him in there.

He was angry at being hurt thats for sure, he tried to stay on the pitch because he waved that he was gonna try and stay on........If he has a broken collar bone, then it is a very painful injury that hurts a lot when you move.......TFC and Frings have had nothing but bad luck this year.

[Rudy]

I was at the game and when Frings came to the sideline to be checked out I saw him say "broken" and then they sent him back out! Shortly after that he walked off the field and right into the locker room. It was clear something was wrong and I think, yes he was frustrated he couldn't help his team being hurt and all, but at the same time I think he was pissed at the Coach for keeping him in there.

i think that's exactly what happened. they tried to push to keep him there, and he got pisseed since he was in pain, and said f that, im walkin out. not cool.

[denime]

i think that's exactly what happened. they tried to push to keep him there, and he got pisseed since he was in pain, and said f that, im walkin out. not cool.


Stop exaggerating FFS,No one pushed him back,he was asked to stay a bit longer until change is ready.

Why people like to make the fucking stories out of nothing is beyond me.

[ensco]

Stop exaggerating FFS,No one pushed him back,he was asked to stay a bit longer until change is ready.

Why people like to make the fucking stories out of nothing is beyond me.

Disagree with the all knowing tone of this. You wait until a change is ready if it's a minor knock. Not if the player is really hurt. So it's probably a sign/symptom of a communication problem, for sure. Is it more than that? You seem to be sure it's not. I don't know.

It was a pretty public display, he was pissed, it wasn't just the armband toss, when Frings put that ball out of touch to come off, it almost hit the Cinesphere. Then he stormed to the room. Nobody knows if it was just the situation, or something more, but there are reasons for wondering. Dero sure noticed it in his postgame comments.

[denime]

Disagree with the all knowing tone of this. You wait until a change is ready if it's a minor knock. Not if the player is really hurt. So it's probably a sign/symptom of a communication problem, for sure. Is it more than that? You seem to be sure it's not. I don't know.

It was a pretty public display, he was pissed, it wasn't just the armband toss, when Frings put that ball out of touch to come off, it almost hit the Cinesphere. Then he stormed to the room. Nobody knows if it was just the situation, or something more, but there are reasons for wondering. Dero sure noticed it in his postgame comments.

Toronto star :


Making matters worse for TFC, Torsten Frings left the game in the 67th minute after colliding with teammate Doneil Henry in the D.C. goalmouth on a corner kick and injuring his shoulder. He threw down the captain’s armband on the field when leaving.
“I did not mean anything negative when I removed the armband,” Frings, who will be further evaluated, said in a statement post game. “I was in pain and had to leave the field for treatment.
“I have too much respect for the club, my teammates and the position for it to mean anything else.”

[ensco]

Toronto star :

I saw that. I believe him.

But he doesn't address the actual question. The manager(s) are absent from his respect list.

He's a pro, he doesn't air laundry in public, so even if it were true, he would never say "I was pissed because they asked me to stay in for any time at all, despite the fact I told them I was really in pain". There is a lot of body language to support that. But who knows for sure.

[Roogsy]

I saw that. I believe him.

But he doesn't address the actual question. He's a pro, he doesn't air laundry in public, so even if it were true, he would never say "I was pissed because they asked me to stay in for a few minutes despite the fact I told them I was seriously hurt". There is a lot of body language to support that. But who knows for sure.

Unfortunately Ensco, they will only believe IF Frings ever comes out like Johnson and outright declares a mutiny. Only then will people believe, despite the fact that the signs are all over the place.

Remember my volcano analogy? Watch Dante's Peak again my man. We've got a whole lot of doubters still living life as if that big-ass volcano ain't about to explode.

[Beach_Red]

Well, Frings has stayed longer than Laurent Robert or Olivier Teliby....

[InDa_110]

I saw that. I believe him.

But he doesn't address the actual question. The manager(s) are absent from his respect list.

He's a pro, he doesn't air laundry in public, so even if it were true, he would never say "I was pissed because they asked me to stay in for any time at all, despite the fact I told them I was really in pain". There is a lot of body language to support that. But who knows for sure.

Interesting. If he does have a real problem with Winter and staff, that will be dero first now Frings.

Btw: Is RPB planning anything to voice displeasure?

[Just One Man]

Interesting. If he does have a real problem with Winter and staff, that will be dero first now Frings.

Btw: Is RPB planning anything to voice displeasure?

Frings doesn't score enough goals for the RPB to get pissed off at him. You've gotta be a league MVP to get on the RPB's bad side.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Interesting. If he does have a real problem with Winter and staff, that will be dero first now Frings.

Btw: Is RPB planning anything to voice displeasure?

Are you? or is this it.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Frings doesn't score enough goals for the RPB to get pissed off at him. You've gotta be a league MVP to get on the RPB's bad side.

Andy Iro. You're welcome.

[Jack]

Frings doesn't score enough goals for the RPB to get pissed off at him. You've gotta be a league MVP to get on the RPB's bad side.
:facepalm:

Any other moronic generalizations to add about RPB? Once you've extracted your head from your ass, please feel free to add something useful to the conversation.

Frings doesn't deserve criticism for getting frustrated. I feel for the guy, who came in and plays hard, is very professional and very classy, but is stuck in this shitbox of a situation. I bet he is regretting coming in here.

[RedDevils]

I'd love to know the dynamic between a German legend like Frings (with a short fuse) and a Dutch management team. I'm sure we have a German or Dutch member who can expand on how the two peoples feel about each other, at least when it comes to football :D.

[denime]

Interesting. If he does have a real problem with Winter and staff, that will be dero first now Frings.

Btw: Is RPB planning anything to voice displeasure?

We do,by going to the next game and give everything we have left to support the boys on the pitch.

[Roogsy]

We do,by going to the next game and give everything we have left to support the boys on the pitch.

Supporting the boys goes beyond cheering for them on the pitch. That's worthless if they're not given the tools to produce. At some the cheering even helps demoralize them even more because they start carrying the guilt of not performing for the fans even if it's not their fault.

The answer to everything isn't always to cheer harder.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Supporting the boys goes beyond cheering for them on the pitch. That's worthless if they're not given the tools to produce. At some the cheering even helps demoralize them even more because they start carrying the guilt of not performing for the fans even if it's not their fault.

The answer to everything isn't always to cheer harder.

Are you saying not to cheer to save the players feelings?

[Roogsy]

Are you saying not to cheer to save the players feelings?

No, and your characterization and oversimplification of my reply only shows a willful blindness to the point I was making.

I know it's not what you guys want to hear, but the truth is your ineffective cheering won't help these lads overcome the structural deficiencies at the club. You are in effect, pissing against the wind.

[Fort York Redcoat]

No, and your characterization and oversimplification of my reply only shows a willful blindness to the point I was making.

I know it's not what you guys want to hear, but the truth is your ineffective cheering won't help these lads overcome the structural deficiencies at the club. You are in effect, pissing against the wind.

I suppose I'll just take the compliment that my singing still makes such a difference to you and a growing contingent here. The point you make is not lost but my question was valid. If singing makes the players feel guilty or inspired the result should be motivation if they are professional.

[Roogsy]

That's the point though. It doesn't make a difference if that is the bulk of your "support".

[Yohan]

That's the point though. It doesn't make a difference if that is the bulk of your "support".

No offence dude, but this sounds like we shouldn't be giving charity money to feed starving African children b/c it only prolongs their suffering.

[Roogsy]

No offence dude, but this sounds like we shouldn't be giving charity money to feed starving African children b/c it only prolongs their suffering.

Then you're missing the point. Give all the money you want, cheer all you want. But don't delude yourself into thinking you are making a difference. Making a difference requires a helluvalot more effort. It demands standing up for something and getting involved. Cheering is almost the least you can do. Kind of like giving $20 a month to charity.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Then you're missing the point. Give all the money you want, cheer all you want. But don't delude yourself into thinking you are making a difference. Making a difference requires a helluvalot more effort. It demands standing up for something and getting involved. Cheering is almost the least you can do. Kind of like giving $20 a month to charity.


Doing nothing is always easier than doing something. The hard part is convincing people one is doing nothing for a reason.

[Roogsy]

:noidea:

Doing nothing? Who said do nothing? Classic strawman argument.

[Fort York Redcoat]

:noidea:

Doing nothing? Who said do nothing? Classic strawman argument.

Classic Roogsy.:smilielol5:

[tfc2008]

Were you at the game Rudy? He was injured on one of our corners when a teammate crashed into him jamming his shoulder. It was obvious he'd been injured. It was replayed on the screens at least once. At the first opportunity, he was at the bench being looked at by the physio. He went back on for a few minutes to see how it was and then when it was obvious he couldn't continue, he booted the ball out of bounds and headed for the locker room asap with the physio immediately following.

Anybody who was watching the match would have seen all of this taking place. Your "facts" are your own assumptions and way off base.

I was at the game and yes i saw how he get injured,but you dont have to act like him as a captain

[Roogsy]

Classic Roogsy.:smilielol5:

Yup. Logical fallacies will always be pointed out.

[RedDevils]

No, and your characterization and oversimplification of my reply only shows a willful blindness to the point I was making.

I know it's not what you guys want to hear, but the truth is your ineffective cheering won't help these lads overcome the structural deficiencies at the club. You are in effect, pissing against the wind.

Spot on. And not just any wind, it's one of those weird winds you get blowing back towards the south stand that knocks hats off, effectively causing one to piss on one's face.

The best supporters in the MLS are strangely the ones that are most vocal about their rights and holding their FOs accountable. The atmosphere right now is more about the "boys on the field" (ugh), the atmosphere is and has been the only selling point in this clubs troubled history. You supporters hold the key to saving this club. Sometimes you need to pull over, turn that key to shut off the engine, and change a tire because the ride is getting uncomfortable.

[ag futbol]

Toronto star :
That's great and all, but that falls well short of proper reporting / coverage of what happened on the field. It's like if the cops showed up at my house and asked me if I knew anything about the dead body in my backyard, to which I responded "no" and that's that. The whole situation is dripping of details that are simply ignored or uncovered.

Case in point, Richard Eckersley is magically benched last week but Criag Forrest and Gerry Dobson are at a loss to explain it. Meanwhile Ives Galarcep and this entire board know he stormed off the field and blew off the coach when he tried to shake his hand the prior game.

[TFC OZZ]

I saw the armband situation today from a very close position and I'd like to clarify what happened from my view. My seats are literally 8 rows behind the bench and we have a very clear vantage point. Torsten came over several times to try and come off, he talked to Winter and the trainer while on the field still. He VERY CLEARLY pointed to his collarbone and said the word BROKEN several times - essentially saying somethings broken. He threw the armband on the field because he wanted to get off quickly and was being held up by the ref and no one was coming over. He was hurt, needed to get off the field and was pissed off.

[OgtheDim]

No, and your characterization and oversimplification of my reply only shows a willful blindness to the point I was making.

....

Pot meet kettle.

[Roogsy]

Pot meet kettle.

Yeah? Whose post did I mischaracterize?

[Roogsy]

Getting backing topic I heard several comments yesterday about what a shame it is to have Frings being wasted out here and that he may end his career on a low point such as TFC. I can't disagree. He's trying to do it all out there for us. He deserves better.

[narduch]

Getting backing topic I heard several comments yesterday about what a shame it is to have Frings being wasted out here and that he may end his career on a low point such as TFC. I can't disagree. He's trying to do it all out there for us. He deserves better.

Frings looks old and tired. A shell of what we say last season.

I'm wondering if this disaster continues if he just doesn't retire in the summer. I believe he has a post-playing job waiting for him at Werder Bremen.

[Rene Kingsriver]

Having Frings on the team just gives American fans another reason to hate us and gloat over our current misery, they're calling it karma

[Roogsy]

Having Frings on the team just gives American fans another reason to hate us and gloat over our current misery, they're calling it karma

That's petty.

[Rene Kingsriver]

That's petty.

if you think that's petty check out the comments section for any TFC piece over on soccer by ives

[ArmenJBX]

Supporting the boys goes beyond cheering for them on the pitch. That's worthless if they're not given the tools to produce. At some the cheering even helps demoralize them even more because they start carrying the guilt of not performing for the fans even if it's not their fault.

The answer to everything isn't always to cheer harder.

This. This this this this this and this.

[Parkdale]

strawman


I see your strawman and raise you a crux.

[Blizzard]

I was at the game and yes i saw how he get injured,but you dont have to act like him as a captain

Do you know how much pain he might have been in at that moment time? If he does in fact have a broken collar bone as has been discussed here, the man was in agony. Sure, it would have been better if he'd handed it to somebody but it didn't happen that way and I for one don't have any reason to be critical of the man. Hell, he might have just played ten minutes with a broken bloody collar bone!

[Auzzy]

Hmm, I was just browsing through all #tfc tweets to see if there's any important news about TFC. I saw that Rocker posted this 4 hours ago:


Rocker ‏ @rockerTFC
(https://twitter.com/#!/rockerTFC)Just was standing in checkout line at the Longos at maple leaf square behind Torsten Frings!!! #TFC (https://twitter.com/#!/search/%23TFC)

So if Torsten was shopping at Longos today, perhaps that means the injury didn't turn out to be too serious? I can't imagine going grocery shopping with a broken collarbone for example. Hopefully he's doing OK... I guess we will know Monday for sure.

Although, if the coach forced him to stay on yesterday despite Frings saying he's seriously injured & in pain -- that would be truly awful.

[123 elite]

No, and your characterization and oversimplification of my reply only shows a willful blindness to the point I was making.

I know it's not what you guys want to hear, but the truth is your ineffective cheering won't help these lads overcome the structural deficiencies at the club. You are in effect, pissing against the wind.

:hump:

[Blizzard]

Hmm, I was just browsing through all #tfc tweets to see if there's any important news about TFC. I saw that Rocker posted this 4 hours ago:



So if Torsten was shopping at Longos today, perhaps that means the injury didn't turn out to be too serious? I can't imagine going grocery shopping with a broken collarbone for example. Hopefully he's doing OK... I guess we will know Monday for sure.



I hope you're right.

[ensco]

So somebody who would prefer not to come forward, but has credibility with me, PMed to say that Frings was definitely not upset with Winter or management when he came off Saturday. The whole show of frustration was strictly about getting hurt again, and maybe general frustration with losing, but nothing specifically related to how mgmt handled him coming off.

Just thought I'd put that out there, given that I stirred the pot on that yesterday.

[Auzzy]

^ Thanks ensco.

I didn't really notice the lead-up to his leaving the field, since I'm high on the west side, only when actually didn't leave. But I noticed when he came off, & his facial expression, and man was I worried.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Spot on. And not just any wind, it's one of those weird winds you get blowing back towards the south stand that knocks hats off, effectively causing one to piss on one's face.

The best supporters in the MLS are strangely the ones that are most vocal about their rights and holding their FOs accountable. The atmosphere right now is more about the "boys on the field" (ugh), the atmosphere is and has been the only selling point in this clubs troubled history. You supporters hold the key to saving this club. Sometimes you need to pull over, turn that key to shut off the engine, and change a tire because the ride is getting uncomfortable.

Ah. See "Vocal" means saying something. Doing something outside. I agree with this.

[bigredone]

I'd love to know the dynamic between a German legend like Frings (with a short fuse) and a Dutch management team. I'm sure we have a German or Dutch member who can expand on how the two peoples feel about each other, at least when it comes to football :D.

Leave the past in the past.

Robben staying with Bayern and even though Ribery punched him it was a French fist on a German team. Van Perise and Kuyt may be playing for German teams soon. The Germans are very good at integrating people to there way:):), Podolski!!!!!


http://soccernet.espn.go.com/columns/story?id=790038&root=worldcup2010&cc=null

[Auzzy]

From Twitter:


TorontoFCPR ‏ @TorontoFCPR
Torsten sustained an injury to his shoulder during Saturday’s match against D.C. He will undergo further evaluation on Tuesday.
(43 minutes ago)

[DOMIN8R]

Just thought I'd put that out there, given that I stirred the pot on that yesterday.

Yes. You. Did.:yesnod:

But we forgive you.

[rocker]

I saw Frings at Longos Maple Leaf Square yesterday. He was in line in front of me at the checkout. He was reading his phone while his wife was getting something small. He paid. I didn't have the courage to speak to him. I just stared at him. Then he left and went up the escalator. Didn't carry any bags.

My girlfriend said he's hot (she didn't really notice or care much for Frings before). I said his wife his hot.

[ensco]

Yes. You. Did.:yesnod:

But we forgive you.

Dude, if you sat on the west side, like all true fans do .... ;-) ... you'd have seen anger like something out of The Road Warrior!

[DOMIN8R]

Dude, if you sat on the west side, like all true fans do .... ;-) ... you'd have seen anger like something out of The Road Warrior!

http://blog.koldcast.tv/media/dudes/dudes14.jpg
Dude, there you go again....dividing the fans, huge gene.

Don't make me go all cool ass Paul Beirne on you...
http://www.sxc.hu/pic/m/c/ch/chidsey/963663_cool_dude.jpg

[69Chevy396]

I saw Frings at Longos Maple Leaf Square yesterday. He was in line in front of me at the checkout. He was reading his phone while his wife was getting something small. He paid. I didn't have the courage to speak to him. I just stared at him. Then he left and went up the escalator. Didn't carry any bags.

My girlfriend said he's hot (she didn't really notice or care much for Frings before). I said his wife his hot.

I saw her too, she is hot alright; http://images.inmagine.com/img/bigcheese/bcsi001/bcsi001197.jpg

[ensco]

^I think Ty Harden, Nik Soolsma and Sean Penn were all separated at birth.

[Canary10]

I saw Frings at Longos Maple Leaf Square yesterday. He was in line in front of me at the checkout. He was reading his phone while his wife was getting something small. He paid. I didn't have the courage to speak to him. I just stared at him. Then he left and went up the escalator. Didn't carry any bags.

My girlfriend said he's hot (she didn't really notice or care much for Frings before). I said his wife his hot.

Well you definitely played it cool...

[ensco]

Assuming he isn't seriously injured ... I love Fringsy, but I wonder if we shouldn't trade him. Only with his consent of course. I bet there is a market for him.

He is a perfect piece for a contender, but it makes no sense for him to be here, on a rebuilding (expansion?) team. We are asking him to do too much. Given his age and stage, he needs to come out after 60 minutes most games, and then go 90 minutes in the big games from September onward.

[Beach_Red]

Assuming he isn't seriously injured ... I love Fringsy, but I wonder if we shouldn't trade him. Only with his consent of course. I bet there is a market for him.

He is a perfect piece for a contender, but it makes no sense for him to be here, on a rebuilding (expansion?) team. We are asking him to do too much. Given his age and stage, he needs to come out after 60 minutes most games, and then go 90 minutes in the big games from September onward.

This sort of confirms what people were saying about getting a DP too soon on an expansion team when he can't really make a difference and is wasted.

And it really points to what you said in the Vncouver thread, we're not competing for non-DP players very well and that's where the biggest effect will be felt.

[trane]

Wow, trade Frings? That is the solution?

[T-boy]

Obviously trading Frings isn't a solution.

However, the fitness issues we keep having with Frings and Koev's just highlights the problem of signing 33 year old plus DP's. I said when they signed, if they keep fit they are great signings. BUT, more than likely they won't keep fit as they are ageing. And that is exactly what has happened unfortunately.

[bigredone]

An observation was made in another thread about older Dp's and how they tire when running down field with players like Plata. Are they holding players like Plata back?

[Chevy]

^I think Ty Harden, Nik Soolsma and Sean Penn were all separated at birth.

How could you exclude this dude from that group?
http://www.biografias.es/files/star/m/Mista%203_.jpg

[jabbronies]

Assuming he isn't seriously injured ... I love Fringsy, but I wonder if we shouldn't trade him. Only with his consent of course. I bet there is a market for him.

He is a perfect piece for a contender, but it makes no sense for him to be here, on a rebuilding (expansion?) team. We are asking him to do too much. Given his age and stage, he needs to come out after 60 minutes most games, and then go 90 minutes in the big games from September onward.


really? I disagree with this. Having a guy like him mentoring your rookies mid level players on the pitch is so valuable to a rebuilding team.
even if he is only playing 60 minutes per game he will help players with their confidence and understanding of the game much faster than if you didn't have him.

DP or not, a player with experience is needed on all teams - especially expansion/rebuilding teams.

[ag futbol]

really? I disagree with this. Having a guy like him mentoring your rookies mid level players on the pitch is so valuable to a rebuilding team.
even if he is only playing 60 minutes per game he will help players with their confidence and understanding of the game much faster than if you didn't have him.

DP or not, a player with experience is needed on all teams - especially expansion/rebuilding teams.
This gets thrown around a lot, but is he reaaally mentoring the younger players on this squad? I wouldn't be so sure.

Just from a cursory level, don't know how a world class athlete who has played at the highest level of the sport would feel they have in common with young players on the fringes of a developing league who grew up on a different continent. Personally, I see more evidence of someone like JDG being a mentor to younger players than the other guys on the squad.

Just like coaching, your level of play does not necessarily indicate your ability to pass your knowledge on to others.

[jabbronies]

This gets thrown around a lot, but is he reaaally mentoring the younger players on this squad? I wouldn't be so sure.

Just from a cursory level, don't know how a world class athlete who has played at the highest level of the sport would feel they have in common with young players on the fringes of a developing league who grew up on a different continent. Personally, I see more evidence of someone like JDG being a mentor to younger players than the other guys on the squad.

Just like coaching, your level of play does not necessarily indicate your ability to pass your knowledge on to others.

I would hope he knows how to coach players on the pitch. He has shown interest in that side of the game with his old club in Germany and they are ready to bring him in with open arms when he's ready.

At the end of the day, one could only assume he is mentoring the younger players based on the above facts. Also - if you are at BMO and just watch Frings you'll see how much he is doing to get guys in the right positions - although you'll also notice once those players are in the correct spot, they end up wandering away aimlessly, but that's another topic I guess.

As for JDG - I don't see him as a mentor. At the end of the game, all of his interviews are about him and his play. he is very focused on his game and only his game. Aside from that, the only time I see JDG speaking to anyone on the pitch is when he is setting himself up for something.

[Yohan]

This gets thrown around a lot, but is he reaaally mentoring the younger players on this squad? I wouldn't be so sure.

Just from a cursory level, don't know how a world class athlete who has played at the highest level of the sport would feel they have in common with young players on the fringes of a developing league who grew up on a different continent. Personally, I see more evidence of someone like JDG being a mentor to younger players than the other guys on the squad.

Just like coaching, your level of play does not necessarily indicate your ability to pass your knowledge on to others.

Frings is a leader and the team captain. I'd hope he knows how to mentor others, especially he's going to get into youth coaching

[KRO]

From Asif's tweet - Winter says Koev and Frings are a maybe tomorrow and Soolsma more likely. That tells me that Frings didn't break anything and even if he doesn't play tomorrow he'll be OK for the next MLS game.

[T-boy]

Frings is a leader and the team captain. I'd hope he knows how to mentor others, especially he's going to get into youth coaching

Frings may be captain - but that doesn't necessarily mean he's a great mentor. Look at our last two captains, and neither have been great mentors to any young players (DeRo and Santos). I think Frings is captain for his experience level, not necessarily other reasons.

[TFC Cityboy]

Is it my eyesight or does Frings look heavier than last season? We don't seem to have a apecialist fitness coach anymore..

[Yohan]

Is it my eyesight or does Frings look heavier than last season? We don't seem to have a apecialist fitness coach anymore..
come back to us, Paul Winsper!

[T-boy]

Is it my eyesight or does Frings look heavier than last season? We don't seem to have a apecialist fitness coach anymore..

I'm not sure he's "heavier" - but I do question the fitness level of some of the players right now. It really makes me wonder what Winter and De Klerk were working on all off season? The players seem neither super fit OR in tune with the tactics, so what were they all working on during the winter?

[Canary10]

Is it my eyesight or does Frings look heavier than last season? We don't seem to have a apecialist fitness coach anymore..

Apparently Grant Holt is CUT. The lesson there: don't try to figure it out by how they "look" on the pitch.

[ag futbol]

I would hope he knows how to coach players on the pitch. He has shown interest in that side of the game with his old club in Germany and they are ready to bring him in with open arms when he's ready.

At the end of the day, one could only assume he is mentoring the younger players based on the above facts. Also - if you are at BMO and just watch Frings you'll see how much he is doing to get guys in the right positions - although you'll also notice once those players are in the correct spot, they end up wandering away aimlessly, but that's another topic I guess.

I see what you're saying but I see plenty of counter arguments as to why it might not be happening .. I wouldn't start with it as a base case. Don't discount the cultural aspect associated with the whole process and the language barrier. Torsen Frings is very different from the young players on this team.

And just because you're a leader and a captain, doesn't mean you're a mentor. As an example: Michael Jordan was one of the best players to ever play basketball, he was an amazing captain and leader. But he broke the shit out of multiple young guys who played on his teams and was considered my many to a shark and a terrible mentor.

[Yohan]

Why would Werder Bremen give Frings a job as youth coach then? PR stunt?

[rocker]

Is it my eyesight or does Frings look heavier than last season? We don't seem to have a apecialist fitness coach anymore..

He looked fine when I stood next to him at Longos checkout the other day. lol. Not heavier than last year.

[ag futbol]

Why would Werder Bremen give Frings a job as youth coach then? PR stunt?
That doesn't necessarily go against my point. Keep in mind plenty of former players get into youth coaching, some work well with it, some don't.

He has great experiences and knowledge, but how good will he be at communicating those things to the players here. Not Germany, where he spent his career and has in-depth knowledge about practically everything, and speaks the language fluently. How motivated is he to do these things for OUR young players? At the end of the day he's come here as a hired gun, which is much different than his connection to a club like Bremen.

It doesn't mean he's doing anything wrong. I don't expect him to come here as a mentor nor should we automatically assume he takes up such a role.

[jabbronies]

That doesn't necessarily go against my point. Keep in mind plenty of former players get into youth coaching, some work well with it, some don't.

He has great experiences and knowledge, but how good will he be at communicating those things to the players here. Not Germany, where he spent his career and has in-depth knowledge about practically everything, and speaks the language fluently. How motivated is he to do these things for OUR young players? At the end of the day he's come here as a hired gun, which is much different than his connection to a club like Bremen.

It doesn't mean he's doing anything wrong. I don't expect him to come here as a mentor nor should we automatically assume he takes up such a role.

I can see the language barrier being something that could be an obstacle, but it's not like he can't speak the language. Listening to his interviews he seems to have a grasp of more than just the basics of English, so I personally wouldn't use that as a reason to say he isn't mentoring the younger players

As for the young players not being able to relate - I don't see that either. Football is football. Whether you play in Argentina or if you play in Russia, the game is the same. The style of play may differ, but the at the end of the day the positions, roles and the game itself is the same. A young player having someone with World experience like Torsten on his team should be a sponge in his presence. He should be learning everything he can from that player IMO. If he isn't then that player needs to give his head a shake and wake up.

However, I do see where a player may not be able to learn from Torsten - A guy like Plata might not learn that much largely due to his style of play and position in relation to Torsten on the pitch.
Plata excelled when Maicon Santos was around, and when he left, we saw Plata decline slightly. Plata needs someone to teach him and I don't think Koevermans is the guy to do it. (but that is another story for another thread)

I think guys like Avila and Silva will benefit from Frings once he gets into the Midfield role he should be playing.
I also think guys like Morgan, Henry, Maunde have an opportunity to learn from Torsten while he is playing the CB role, but also when he moves up.