Steve Nicol or Thomas Rongen?

[trane]

I agree with this. As a defender in the amateur levels my whole life I've been very effective despite not being tactically knowledgeable. The reason? My coaches knew my strengths and gave me a role I could play effectively. All I needed was direction.

Defense is not a position that requires the most accurate shot or the most technical ability. It's a position that can be taught. It's a position that requires a player to know their assignment. You need to know angles and be physically able to counter the technical skills forwards usually have with smarts and physicality.

I am as certain as anything that the current block of defenders are good enough to do the job well if not spectacular. What they need is a coach that knows how to communicate strategy well. Winter is not that guy but other coaches might be. We don't need a revamp of our defensive players, we need a new coach and I promise you our defense will improve.

You know I agree with this.

My only thing is that as simple as defense is , somehow the average North American player does not seem to get it, I am not sure why.

[Beach_Red]

You know I agree with this.

My only thing is that as simple as defense is , somehow the average North American player does not seem to get it, I am not sure why.

Because if the average American kid is any good, he plays 'real' football. ;)

[Huyton]

Name.............G...W...L...T....Win.%
Mo Johnston.....30...6..17...7....20.00
John Carver.....36..11..15..10....30.56
Chris Cummins...31..12..11...8....38.71
Preki...........32..11..11..10....34.38
Nick Dasovic....10...3...4...3....30.00
Aron Winter.....56..14..23..19....25.00

[__wowza]

kind of lends itself to the belief that there may be some registered users on here with an agenda, perhaps even from the team. But that's just a personal opinion.


Manipulating social media to obfuscate a predominant consumer view that is embarrassing to a large corporation?

Yeah, this doesnt happen.

if you head on over to the winter rating thread you'll see that a large portion of people agree that they're not happy with him this month. aside from a few trolls popping in the obligatory "5 STAR PERFORMANCE THIS MONTH!", the two threads put together would have me assume that although people aren't happy with him, theyre willing to give him more time to turn the team around.

long story short, if they're trying to keep consumer displeasure down, they're certainly not earning their paycheques.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

Lulz well said wowza

[mdc 77]

I'm all for giving a manager time to put players and a system in place and see what happens but this is beyond crazy now. How can anyone give Winter more time? What do you think will occur? The man has won 4 matches, of what? 56? 14!!! That is incredible. Does he need 20 wins in 100 matches to show that he just isn't going to work out.

I just don't get what people think is going to change. I truly think think with the right manager this collection of players can be more than a decent team in this league, who knows who that manager is but it surely isn't Winter. Its been proven time and time again.

lol revised win total. hmm well 14 out of 56 maybe i'll change my mind. No that is still incredibly bad.

[Huyton]

Sorry...I had to edit it...it's 14 games he's won, not 4. I accidentally posted it with 4 games and then quickly edited it.

Sorry 'bout that, chief.

[ExiledRed]

if you head on over to the winter rating thread you'll see that a large portion of people agree that they're not happy with him this month. aside from a few trolls popping in the obligatory "5 STAR PERFORMANCE THIS MONTH!", the two threads put together would have me assume that although people aren't happy with him, theyre willing to give him more time to turn the team around.

long story short, if they're trying to keep consumer displeasure down, they're certainly not earning their paycheques.

Like I said, if the votes in the one poll hadnt just 'accelerated' in a relatively short time, and Winter was actually performing mediocre, I would be less suspicious.

I refuse to believe that the majority of those people are too afraid of me and Roogsy to post.

[Whoop]

Well he has only won 6 leagues matches in 41 matches.

34 GP 6 W 13 L 15 D -23 GD
7 GP 0 W 7 L 0 D -10 GD

That's a .329 winning percentage.

Now not only has Winter said the team will make the playoffs now it's ...



Kurtis Larson ‏ @KurtLarSUN (https://twitter.com/#%21/KurtLarSUN)
After ensuring fans of playoffs, Winter has become quite the chatterbox. Today, says flat out #TFC (https://twitter.com/#%21/search/%23TFC) is a better side than #IMFC (https://twitter.com/#%21/search/%23IMFC)

Hopefully for his sakes, and for the sanity of the supporters, TFC beats Montreal.

[lerxst]

It's a good thing that the season lasts longer than 7 games. I mean, we wouldn't want to knee jerk ourselves in the fucking face now would we.

[Greatest Ripoff]

Name.............G...W...L...T....Win.%
Mo Johnston.....30...6..17...7....20.00
John Carver.....36..11..15..10....30.56
Chris Cummins...31..12..11...8....38.71
Preki...........32..11..11..10....34.38
Nick Dasovic....10...3...4...3....30.00
Aron Winter.....56..14..23..19....25.00

Is this all competition or just league? If it's all competitions do you have just league?

[Whoop]

Looks like for all competition.

[trane]

Because if the average American kid is any good, he plays 'real' football. ;)

That is the truth. In Italy, I always played CB, when I came here the coaches at my school wanted me to play defensive line or linebacker. I refused, not because I did not want to play americna football, but because I had no school spirit. I did not play footy, because I looked at what the hell they were doing, and it looked like a mix of follow the leader, chickens with their heads cut off, and the slightest contact between players was a foul, my three skills in footy were positioning, physicaility and intimidation. hence I ended up playing nothing.

[trane]

Hard to beleive Winter is by far our longest serving manager. Clearly he has had enough time.

[Roogsy]

Hard to beleive Winter is by far our longest serving manager. Clearly he has had enough time.


He has almost reached a point where he has played twice as many games as the next longest-serving manager.

I think the case for "enough time" has been made.

[ExiledRed]

It's a good thing that the season lasts longer than 7 games. I mean, we wouldn't want to knee jerk ourselves in the fucking face now would we.

You'd think this was season one and that the 7 game losing streak had no pretext.

Only a fricking Brontosaurus would have such a slow knee jerk reaction, and it would be impossible for such a beast to knee itself in the face.

[Flipityflu]

i have come to the conclusion that the reason so many people want to keep Winter is that they want to make sure as many season ticket holders give up, and seat selection becomes much easier.

[trane]

He has almost reached a point where he has played twice as many games as the next longest-serving manager.

I think the case for "enough time" has been made.

At least it has been made to you, me and exiled and a few others. ( Beach Red, Belfast Boy for sure)

[ryan]

I think the case for "enough time" has been made.

No previous coach did anything more but apply their motivations and alterations to the squad. As opposed to entirely overhauling, well, everything. I would like to hear the complexity in what's trying to be done being discussed by DeKlerk from the RSL match, if anyone has it.

Not going to bother arguing what I think is enough time, but I mean gutting half the roster and changing into, and in many cases teaching how, to be a free form club is not really the same thing attempted by previous managers?

[trane]

^ Cummins played a 4-3-3 with a pretty new roster in his first win against Chivas. He won from the get go and has almost as many wins as Winter in almost half the time.

[Beach_Red]

No previous coach did anything more but apply their motivations and alterations to the squad. As opposed to entirely overhauling, well, everything. I would like to hear the complexity in what's trying to be done being discussed by DeKlerk from the RSL match, if anyone has it.

Not going to bother arguing what I think is enough time, but I mean gutting half the roster and changing into, and in many cases teaching how, to be a free form club is not really the same thing attempted by previous managers?

No, you're right, Winter was definitely given a different mandate than everyone who came before. After Preki people said they didn't want that kind of stifling anti-football but no one said they wanted a multi-year make-over of every aspect of the organization.

All we wanted was to win more games in MLS than we lost.

[Roogsy]

No previous coach did anything more but apply their motivations and alterations to the squad. As opposed to entirely overhauling, well, everything. I would like to hear the complexity in what's trying to be done being discussed by DeKlerk from the RSL match, if anyone has it.

Not going to bother arguing what I think is enough time, but I mean gutting half the roster and changing into, and in many cases teaching how, to be a free form club is not really the same thing attempted by previous managers?


Even if someone were to accept this argument, which I personally do not, then the first 30 games (for example) should have been enough time to do this. The next 30 games should be where you are seeing results. We have not.

Previous coaches have done more with less. Less everything! Less money. Less movement. Less DPs. Less turnover. And yes...less losses. And yet this coach has had every resource this team could possibly muster and 60 games in still can't get his act together? You may not see it, but what you just put up was exactly what this team promised us would not happen again, another MoJo like multi-year plan. We definitely have not learned our lesson.

[Whoop]

Maybe I'm not comprehending something.

Ok, so Winter said last year that the playoffs in Year 1 wasn't likely going to happen. Ok, not the best way to go about things, but understandable. The team wasn't very good at all, wasn't close to the playoffs, but had some decent CCL success.

We were told playoffs in Year 2 weren't likely at the start of the season.... ummmm, okay. Fine, then let's see some improvement.

The team is worse than last year!

Again, IF the team was showing improvement I would say hey, alright the team is showing incremental steps in the right direction. But I don't see it. I was probably even suggest the team is getting worse than from the start of the season.

Was it the Frings injury? Maybe. But Frings isn't a young, spring chicken he's not going to here for a long, long time so eventually sooner rather than later someone has to replace him. If your season gets destroyed by one guy, then you don't have a good team. A team which this management staff put together.

So... where is the incremental improvement? I think 95% of the people on the board would take ANY incremental improvement from last season, not regression.

[ryan]

I don't think 30 games or a little over a calendar year (less than one if you consider when the key players joined the roster) is enough to accomplish what he's trying to.

In many cases the players have not had to play in such a manner and time is required (more for some, less for others) to see who can do what and where. With the MLS structure it's hard to continually roll out who they don't want, as well as a bunch of injuries not helping either. Many comment to state, well ditch JDG and free up 300K for 3 decent players. Well we also have 3 defenders (2 of whom you would regularly see in the starting 11) who total 300K in salary. Only one back is Cann and that's just recent. He's had no time to get involved in this system really. Williams hasn't at all. Hall hasn't at all. Although I'm not sure what Hall has to offer us really.

I still firmly believe this team is in an experimental stage, figuring players out. Which is why I wish for more time to pass before we go in yet another direction.

Other managers weren't really every experimenting, it was just playing with what they had. I'm sure if Toronto played more straight up we'd have more results, but it wouldn't get us to Winter's endgame, so thus he continues on stubbornly through the poor and sometimes unlucky results because he doesn't consider this his finished product.

[Beach_Red]

I don't think 30 games or a little over a calendar year (less than one if you consider when the key players joined the roster) is enough to accomplish what he's trying to.




So, what is enough time?

[Whoop]

Cap management and player management is a big part of MLS. It's a fact of life in the league. If the problems with the team is mainly due to faulty cap management or roster construction, whose shoulders does that fall on?

You can't blame Anselmi on that one. The team is spending the money. He's probably just nodding and say you guys get who you think will help the team.

So is it the players fault they stink or the management's fault for getting the wrong players?

[ryan]

So, what is enough time?

I don't believe there's a numerical measurement to it really. But I would say if by season's end there's no sign that the players have or can grasp what they are being asked to do, then a change would be needed. I believe, and see, that some players have continued to figure things out and furthered themselves along in doing it. Some haven't.

If they don't address the players who haven't in this transfer window, then I really don't know what to say. I don't see how we can continue to use Dunfield, who has no place in what we're doing, but then again we're not buying out JDG, MLSE will not allow it.

[Whoop]

Problem is TFC's hands are tied at this transfer window. Odds of buying someone are slim given the team is close or at the cap.

Only remedy is through trade.

So TFC management haven't given themselves any wiggle room for the summer transfer window.

And even if MLSE bought out JDG, that wouldn't help this year.

[ExiledRed]

I don't believe there's a numerical measurement to it really. But I would say if by season's end there's no sign that the players have or can grasp what they are being asked to do, then a change would be needed.

This basically means the last twelve months have been what? practice? acclimatisation?

Do we give the next guy two full years, and make no judgements on his progress until the very last day of the second season too?

[Richard]

Once new managment came in i was willing to give 1 season, and half of the next. 1st year being an overhaul in every aspect of the club then this season moving forward and being competitive for a playoff spot at the least. The team should have a better record than they have now, noone can deny how close we were in most games but at the end of the day results matter. As time passes Winter has a bigger hole to dig himself out of and i just hope there is a succesion plan, operating in win you stay or loose your gone(per game) is not what a club should do.

[ryan]

This basically means the last twelve months have been what? practice? acclimatisation?

Do we give the next guy two full years, and make no judgements on his progress until the very last day of the second season too?

I don't know the verbage, but I believe when he was first brought in he said not to expect the playoffs by now. I would say the first MLS season under him was experimental with the club, finding out what's going to work with who and is still continuing to be that way as it's not there yet.

Anyways, who's the fool? Ownership for listening to him preach a long term plan that wasn't promising anything by now, and hiring him. Or the supporters for listening to him say this, then getting mad when it comes true?

He's believed, from day one, his plan wouldn't realize the successes of a playoff club yet. It was a long term change that would require many adjustments to who we have and how they play. Now, because of media pressure, owner pressure and unfortunate results he has to promise something he didn't original state he was going to deliver by now.

Am I incorrect at all in this?



TFC decided to go with a long term plan, and look to abandon it a little over a year later to start something new, which is no guarantee of any sort of results either, but I digress. I don't expect MLS quality players to grasp a system that's seemingly complex beyond their training in a year, with the amount of turnover and injury we've gone through, but I guess you all expect otherwise.

/in before "well Mo had a long term plan and it failed, therefore all long term plans should be abandoned after a year without working"

[narduch]

Aron Winter actually did promise the playoffs in 2011 early in his tenure. He than backtracked on that.

[Whoop]

He's said they'll make the playoffs this year.

[narduch]

He's said they'll make the playoffs this year.

Yes I know that.

But he did last year too. Very early on he stated that the playoffs were a goal. But after the horrible start to the season the bar was lowered.

I can't find any news links because google is flooded with stories about this year's prediction.

[ryan]

At the end of the day, this entire thread is a complete waste of time. Without a V's cup win (to give MLSE the additional revenue of 3 more home matches and something to play for), he's going to get dumped to generate a buzz to give people reason to show up for the back half the MLS season. Even that might not be enough if they believe axing him will generate more ticket sales than keeping him around for CCL play.

There's one reason MLSE does anything. One reason why players like JDG won't be bought out (despite if doing so could allow us to replace him with a DP or bring in 3 100K caliber players), one reason why the midfield seats are empty (because if the team finds success, that's all that's available), one reason why most people can't afford a beer at BMO (peer pressure probably forces many a bad purchase), one reason why he's going to get axed. Profit.

Lets just hope the next manager doesn't land another fud for a DP next season and Koevermans/Frings return to better form, or else their final years will slag us in 2013.

[Beach_Red]

He's believed, from day one, his plan wouldn't realize the successes of a playoff club yet. It was a long term change that would require many adjustments to who we have and how they play. Now, because of media pressure, owner pressure and unfortunate results he has to promise something he didn't original state he was going to deliver by now.

Am I incorrect at all in this?



You're only incorrect in calling it "his plan," when it was the plan Klinsmann sold to MLSE and as Bill Archer has pointed out, the one every other team in the league is following (okay, maybe not the Revs).

No one has a problem with the plan, the plan is basic. But we're falling behind every other team in this league and they won't stand around while we catch up. You're right, at the end of the day MLSE was slow to change along with the rest of the league and that's not Winter's fault, but he's the point man now and has to deliver. The longer he takes, the further ahead the rest of the league gets.

[narduch]

MLSE must be nervous about having to refund season ticket holders for the Voyageur's Cup final game on May 23rd. You know MLSE doesn't like giving people their money back. And with the demand the way it is, you know few fans will want to put that money towards next year's seasons.

[ryan]

MLSE must be nervous about having to refund season ticket holders for the Voyageur's Cup final game on May 23rd. You know MLSE doesn't like giving people their money back. And with the demand the way it is, you know few fans will want to put that money towards next year's seasons.

MLSE doesn't give money back. lmfao.

They'll give us tickets to the fucking Liverpool friendly. Watch. I can't wait to riot over that should we fail to beat those french bastards.

[denime]

At the end of the day, this entire thread is a complete waste of time. Without a V's cup win (to give MLSE the additional revenue of 3 more home matches and something to play for), he's going to get dumped to generate a buzz to give people reason to show up for the back half the MLS season. Even that might not be enough if they believe axing him will generate more ticket sales than keeping him around for CCL play.

There's one reason MLSE does anything. One reason why players like JDG won't be bought out (despite if doing so could allow us to replace him with a DP or bring in 3 100K caliber players), one reason why the midfield seats are empty (because if the team finds success, that's all that's available), one reason why most people can't afford a beer at BMO (peer pressure probably forces many a bad purchase), one reason why he's going to get axed. Profit.

Lets just hope the next manager doesn't land another fud for a DP next season and Koevermans/Frings return to better form, or else their final years will slag us in 2013.

This is very important for MLSE,3 CCL games are more $$ for them than 1 playoff game and go home.Unlike US MLS Teams TFC does not have to share revenue with MLS,been counters at Bay love this CCL more than MLS Playoffs,I think this is why Winter is still around.

[cochrdoc]

MLSE shoukd pay the fans to go watch .Winter has done nothing to to show that he can manage in this league.If you like watching the other team score then he is doing a good job.How many goals do we have to give up to realize his tactics are not working.There is all kinds of quality coaches looking for work.Look what Montreal and Vancouver have done with new managers.

[ryan]

This is very important for MLSE,3 CCL games are more $$ for them than 1 playoff game and go home.Unlike US MLS Teams TFC does not have to share revenue with MLS,been counters at Bay love this CCL more than MLS Playoffs,I think this is why Winter is still around.

I didn't know we didn't share with the league like that. Do all Canadian clubs share on their own terms?

And yes, this would mean CCL would mean a hell of a lot more to MLSE than MLS playoffs do. That QF match at the Skydome probably had the executive board wiping their asses with $1000 dollar bills for a week.

[ensco]

MLSE doesn't give money back. lmfao.

They'll give us tickets to the fucking Liverpool friendly. Watch. I can't wait to riot over that should we fail to beat those french bastards.

*slaps head*

Of course.

I salute you. Completely obvious, when you think about it.

[ExiledRed]

and in the spirit of this thread.

Im shamelessly posting videos from Liverpools glory days.

ireuwGpXpSQ

[Flipityflu]

a nice Nicol hattrick.

Aldo looked slim :)

[Richard]

and in the spirit of this thread.

Im shamelessly posting videos from Liverpools glory days.

ireuwGpXpSQ

Nicol will tear this league a new one... oh wait..

[denime]

I didn't know we didn't share with the league like that. Do all Canadian clubs share on their own terms?

And yes, this would mean CCL would mean a hell of a lot more to MLSE than MLS playoffs do. That QF match at the Skydome probably had the executive board wiping their asses with $1000 dollar bills for a week.


As far I know yes,Canadian clubs have different arrangement than US clubs I can't find the article I read about it few years back.

However , CONCACAF controls ALL revenue streams and intellectual property associated with the CCL.That includes, but is not limited to, advertising, sponsorship, merchandising and broadcast revenues.

For an US MLS team, the calculation is clear. They can bring home $50,000 by winning the Supporters Shield,$100,000 by winning the U.S. Open Cup, $200,000 for the MLS Cup,$500,000 for CCL, or $1 million for SuperLiga.

For Canadian teams $50,000 by winning the Supporters Shield,$200,000 for the MLS Cup or $500,000 for CCL.

$500,000 from CONCACAF + $1 million from FIFA just for winning the CCL and getting to the Club World Cup: $1.5 million
the Club World Championships:
First Place: $5M Second Place: $4M

Third Place: $2.5M

Fourth Place: $2M

Fifth Place: $1.5M

Sixth Place: $1M

Seventh Place: $500K

Also the players get incentives, per-team cash bonuses for CONCACAF Champions League as included in the CBA:

Group stage qualification: $35,000
Group stage victory: $3,500
Quarterfinal advancement: $30,000
Semifinal advancement: $35,000
Finals advancement: $40,000
Champions League champion: $42,500


According to the new CBA the following are the cash prizes from Major League Soccer's three primary competitions that are to be split among a team's players:

MLS regular season victory: $4.500
MLS Cup champion: $200,000
MLS Cup runner-up: $70,000
Supporters' Shield: $50,000
Regular-season conference champion: $30,000
Playoff qualification: $20,000


US Clubs only:
U.S. Open Cup champion: $100,000
U.S. Open Cup runner-up: $50,000


and the end of the day winning CCL means more $$$$$ for ML$E and as long TFC is in this competition successful Winter is probably safe and that's why the roumor that he got 4 games might be true.2 out of 4 games rae VC Cup tha we nned to win if we want another shot in CCL.

[jloome]

Sadly we've had plenty of both scored against us.

Check out the stats on where people score from on mlssoccer.com today: we're actually in the middle of the pack in the league in terms of giving away easy chances. Our problem is we're being scored on at more than twice the league's clip from positions where goals AREN'T nrmally scored, i.e. clinical finishes from tough angles, long shooting, shots from outside the box, headers from outside the 6 yrd box.

That just screams "individual error", because people are marking the right areas of the field, closing space and restricting the chances, but they're going in anyway.

http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/2012/04/24/central-winger-defensive-concerns-plague-tfc-ny

[joeyjones]

Cap management and player management is a big part of MLS. It's a fact of life in the league. If the problems with the team is mainly due to faulty cap management or roster construction, whose shoulders does that fall on?

You can't blame Anselmi on that one. The team is spending the money. He's probably just nodding and say you guys get who you think will help the team.

So is it the players fault they stink or the management's fault for getting the wrong players?

maybe you can blame Anselmi as well...MLSE most likely know that Plata and Ecks were 2 of the most popular players last year and wouldn't they be inclined to push the team to sign both to extensions?

[Huyton]

In 2011, TFC put more different players on the pitch than MLS had ever seen before. I have no idea how many were brought in on trial and not played.

They kept the ones they wanted and the ones they were unable to get rid of. A couple of players were added in the off-season.

The result?
Played 11, won 1, lost 8, tied 2 in all competitions.

Even if you give Winter the benefit of the doubt, and say that he's building towards a system, then what was he doing last year with all those players, and why so few in the off-season?

If he can't find the players to play his preferred system, then should we not expect the coach to adjust the system to fit the players he does have?

Winter fails no matter how you look at it.

[trane]

Check out the stats on where people score from on mlssoccer.com today: we're actually in the middle of the pack in the league in terms of giving away easy chances. Our problem is we're being scored on at more than twice the league's clip from positions where goals AREN'T nrmally scored, i.e. clinical finishes from tough angles, long shooting, shots from outside the box, headers from outside the 6 yrd box.

That just screams "individual error", because people are marking the right areas of the field, closing space and restricting the chances, but they're going in anyway.

http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/2012/04/24/central-winger-defensive-concerns-plague-tfc-ny


Hmmm, interesting. I have to read it because on the face of it, it does not seem to make sense, or at least seems to go against intuition. I would have though that we are giving up alot of easy goals, because we are letting players in to easy positions to score from. Anyway when I have a change I will have to read this.

My first impression when you say we are allowing goals from positions that are not easy to score from would be some king of goal keeping mistakes. Again I have to read the article.

[ryan]

Check out the stats on where people score from on mlssoccer.com today: we're actually in the middle of the pack in the league in terms of giving away easy chances. Our problem is we're being scored on at more than twice the league's clip from positions where goals AREN'T nrmally scored, i.e. clinical finishes from tough angles, long shooting, shots from outside the box, headers from outside the 6 yrd box.

That just screams "individual error", because people are marking the right areas of the field, closing space and restricting the chances, but they're going in anyway.

http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/2012/04/24/central-winger-defensive-concerns-plague-tfc-ny

Very interesting statistics. Suggests a bit of being, dare I say the word....unlucky?

[ag futbol]

^ Yes the one statistic suggests he's unlucky, but unfortunately the other 500 suggest he's just bad.

[ManUtd4ever]

Bad luck can certainly account for a few poor results over the course of an entire season, but there are simply no plausible excuses for an 0-7 record. None.

[ExiledRed]

Bad luck can certainly account for a few poor results over the course of an entire season, but there are simply no plausible excuses for an 0-7 record. None.

It actually looks more like the positive results we achieved in CL were a case of good luck.

If you can write off all these defeats as bad luck, then you cant call a single win 'normal' can you. The win against LA looks luckier every day.

[Detroit_TFC]

I know it is off topic but that does raise the question of why is LA doing so poorly this season. Maybe in another thread.

[mdc 77]

L.A. is 3 wins 1 draw and 3 losses this year. They have won 2 of their last 3 and drawn the other. I'd say they aren't doing to poorly and seem to be back on track to being one of the top clubs in the league.

[Flipityflu]

I know it is off topic but that does raise the question of why is LA doing so poorly this season. Maybe in another thread.

losing Gonzalez hasd been a factor. their central defense isn't strong.

[denime]

losing Gonzalez hasd been a factor. their central defense isn't strong.
Losing Frings was a factor for TFC too,no?

[ag futbol]

Was thinking about this: aren't we taking this whole GM search in the wrong direction. Isn't talent evaluation still a big part of the game we are missing out on?

Maybe someone like Garth Legerway should be added to the list. Pay him JDG's salary for all I care, it'd be worth it.

[Beach_Red]

Was thinking about this: aren't we taking this whole GM search in the wrong direction. Isn't talent evaluation still a big part of the game we are missing out on?

Maybe someone like Garth Legerway should be added to the list. Pay him JDG's salary for all I care, it'd be worth it.

Most likely what we're seeing with TFC is that the GM-coach combination has to be right. The Lagerway-Kreiss combination is probably something we should be looking for.

[Flipityflu]

Losing Frings was a factor for TFC too,no?

probably more of a factor i would think.

[ryan]

Losing Frings was a factor for TFC too,no?

How about not having Cann/Williams for most of Winter's tenure, our arguably top pair of central defenders.....our current biggest sore spot.

[Damien]

Just make Frings coach for now.

[TFC07]

Steve Nicol!

[jloome]

If he'll take the job, I'd vote for Caleb Porter. He likes aggressive offensive football but also knows how to get disciplined performances out of young American players. I know the u23 tournament went badly, but I also don't believe his results at Akron were an accident.

[lerxst]

Mr. T. Why the fuck not?! He's the only guy on Earth we haven't tried yet.

[ExiledRed]

Mr. T. Why the fuck not?! He's the only guy on Earth we haven't tried yet.

tis a pity the fool?

[narduch]

I get the feeling that Mariner might be the guy to take over. This is according to Duane Rollins: http://www.canadiansoccernews.com/content.php?3168-A-growing-disconnect

From the article.

"But if there has been one piece of information that has been consistent in the last 72 hours, it is that MLSE has quietly given a 3 year-contract extension to Paul Mariner. It would seem the pragmatists, once thought to be the outsiders, are gaining ground."

By the way, there is a lot more damning accusations being made in that article about the shitshow that is the TFC FO. A good read if you want more evidence into why MLSE is a disaster.

[ryan]

It's been further suggested that Cochrane has openly blocking Winter from other signings during that period but did not elaborate on the details


What a fuckin joke.

[narduch]

I really don't know why Cochrane is involved at all anymore. Especially after the DeRosario saga.

[Whoop]

Maybe Cochrane is the mole.

I don't know how he's still around.

[Whoop]

And it's definitely worth the read.

Same old TFC.

[v00d00daddy]

Fuck. If we go back to the old regime mentality I'm out. And TFC can crash and burn for all I care. This team was built like garbage from day one. I thought bringing in a new mentality might change that (even if Winter isn't the guy...that's not the point here).

If we go back to years 1 thru 4 and the idiots that were in charge, I'm gonna be royally pissed.

I said it when they first hired the new guys....EVERYONE else should have been canned. Every single person involved in the club as far as product on the pitch is concerned. There was no reason to keep any of the coaches, assistants, trainers....whoever. Clean slate. It doesn't matter if they were nice or good guys. Gone.

Unfortunately it wasn't the case and now this Cochrane shit is coming up. I really hope there is little truth to this story.

[Richard]

I get the feeling that Mariner might be the guy to take over. This is according to Duane Rollins: http://www.canadiansoccernews.com/content.php?3168-A-growing-disconnect

From the article.

"But if there has been one piece of information that has been consistent in the last 72 hours, it is that MLSE has quietly given a 3 year-contract extension to Paul Mariner. It would seem the pragmatists, once thought to be the outsiders, are gaining ground."

By the way, there is a lot more damning accusations being made in that article about the shitshow that is the TFC FO. A good read if you want more evidence into why MLSE is a disaster.

Holy shit! This info needs to be put out ther big time now. This is like Mo part 2 with a secret extension. Also why thr fuck is cochrane.still around, he should have been cleaned out a long time ago.

Also i cant believe we paid 500k for plata.

[Beach_Red]

Every office has some office politics, but this place is like the classroom the teacher has left.

[jloome]

Every office has some office politics, but this place is like the classroom the teacher has left.

The saga continues, eh? We're like a dynasty.....not the football type, the bad 80s TV show.

Seriously, so Mariner and Cochrane have allegedly been undermining Winter. I wonder if that's why we get another "how great is Reggie lambe" story today on their website, given that he's Mariner's signing.

Seriously, I'm not sure if this changes anything with respect to Winter, but I think getting rid of the other pair wouldn't hurt.

[jazzy]

Nicol's final 5 years at New England yielded ever declining point totals:
2007: 50
2008: 43
2009: 42
2010: 33
2011: 28

Half his coaching career at New England was spent getting worse point totals than the year before. He did well enough in the old MLS, not great in MLS 2.0.

everything here in a nutshell;....past it ,.......but in reality any MLSE team , under any coach, I'm afraid, I am now convinced will NEVER win ANY championship, and with that I am dismayed

[TFCRegina]

Well...

I think from MLSE's perspective...

Operation Poop on a Paper Plate has been completely successful. Because that's what we've been served.

[Roogsy]

This organization is a joke and if this doesn't tell new ownership Anselmi needs to go we're all screwed.

The housecleaning did not go deep enough in 2010.

[Roogsy]

The saga continues, eh? We're like a dynasty.....not the football type, the bad 80s TV show.

Seriously, so Mariner and Cochrane have allegedly been undermining Winter. I wonder if that's why we get another "how great is Reggie lambe" story today on their website, given that he's Mariner's signing.

Seriously, I'm not sure if this changes anything with respect to Winter, but I think getting rid of the other pair wouldn't hurt.

I'm with you.

[narduch]

The thing that pisses me off is that Earl Cochrane is a glorified office administrator. Before he joined TFC his job was booking hotel rooms and flights for the CSA.

How the hell did he gain so much power at TFC?

[ag futbol]

*groan* I can't believe Earl Cochrane is still involved with this organization on any level.

[ryan]

Don Garber must not sleep at night knowing the potential of what could be in Toronto, being wasted, cause of these shit fuck ass clowns.

[Roogsy]

Don Garber must not sleep at night knowing the potential of what could be in Toronto, being wasted, cause of these shit fuck ass clowns.

No doubt!

[Richard]

Don Garber must not sleep at night knowing the potential of what could be in Toronto, being wasted, cause of these shit fuck ass clowns.

This is when i wish the single entiy model would force owners to sell if there incompetent at building a team.

[ryan]

I honestly feel bad for anyone who's managed this club.

Nobody can straight up say they've been given their fair shake to do things the way the wanted with all this closed door fuckery. Everything can and should be questioned.


Bunch of limp dick suits having battles for power behind the scenes to vie for the edge in climbing the ladder of ML$E. I don't even care to even think or talk about our managerial situation any longer, what's the point? Everything is fucked in this shit is sorted out. No manager has a fucking chance with this shit going on. How do you execute a plan when that much of your budget is used without you being involved?

[ExiledRed]

And on the subject of what a certain board member will do if we get Steve Nicol here.

I name this lion Technorb!

6mgLsuRMCQ4

[denime]

*groan* I can't believe Earl Cochrane is still involved with this organization on any level.
He must be bending over very good.:hump:

[Blizzard]

This is when i wish the single entiy model would force owners to sell if there incompetent at building a team.


If only there was a clause in the ownership agreement that would allow the league to "buy out" an owner at a negotiated market value in order to flip the franchise to a new "partner".

Maybe it's not too far fetched. They did buy out the Florida partners when they shrunk the league way back when.

[Ajax TFC]

The saga continues, eh? We're like a dynasty.....not the football type, the bad 80s TV show.

Seriously, so Mariner and Cochrane have allegedly been undermining Winter. I wonder if that's why we get another "how great is Reggie lambe" story today on their website, given that he's Mariner's signing.

Seriously, I'm not sure if this changes anything with respect to Winter, but I think getting rid of the other pair wouldn't hurt.
some alarm bells about Mariner - Lambe went off in my mind when, recently after we signed him, I saw a video of Mariner talking to him and (his family?) in (Bermuda?), and telling him about TFC, the upcoming champions league match which will be his first game, and in front of 50 000 people. And I was like "what did you just promise him???"

[ensco]

Please god, let the Mariner extension story not be true.

If it is true, to be doing that with the sale now imminent reeks. This alone is cause for termination.

Anselmi et al are custodians not owners. They have no business taking long term decisions weeks before the ownership change.

[ManUtd4ever]

Great article, but if I'm not mistaken, Mariner signed a 3 year contract when he initially signed with the organization a year and a half ago. It wouldn't make sense for him to be offered a contract extension with almost 2 years left on his current deal, even by MLSE standards.

[jloome]

some alarm bells about Mariner - Lambe went off in my mind when, recently after we signed him, I saw a video of Mariner talking to him and (his family?) in (Bermuda?), and telling him about TFC, the upcoming champions league match which will be his first game, and in front of 50 000 people. And I was like "what did you just promise him???"

Geez, you gotta be kidding. That's just fucking terrible, basically overruling the coach.

[ArmenJBX]

If the TFC supporters want to make some real, substantial change...

...I'd recommend the finger be pointed at Mr. Earl Cochrane before anyone else and I shall leave it at that.

[tfcleeds]

Wow...the more things change, the more they stay the same with this club and its management. Un-fucking-believable.

TFC is like the debutante at the charity ball for her confirmation that ends up getting raped in a closet by the doorman (MLSE).

[jloome]

If the TFC supporters want to make some real, substantial change...

...I'd recommend the finger be pointed at Mr. Earl Cochrane before anyone else and I shall leave it at that.

When they hired Mariner for the backup job and noted they'd kept him, I couldn't believe it. It looked like a recipe for this sort of crap; then there was the Bermuda trip and the Sidra/Bas Ent signings (and thank goodness those didn't go through, as they're both shit).

I think we might have a guy and his assistant whose system already didn't really suit this league (or any; as Trane pointed out, Barcelona is really the only team that plays a slow rotation buildup system anymore); but he isn't going to have a shot in hell if he's got an internal power struggle going on.

[ag futbol]

He must be bending over very good.:hump:He'll probably be going on medical leave soon with lock-jaw

[Roogsy]

Please god, let the Mariner extension story not be true.

If it is true, to be doing that with the sale now imminent reeks. This alone is cause for termination.

Anselmi et al are custodians not owners. They have no business taking long term decisions weeks before the ownership change.

:facepalm:

Seriously, this club is such a friggin' mess.

There was one question though, someone pointed out (in the article comments) that this extension actually happened when New England started chatting up Mariner. The question is, is this true? Because if that is the case, then the extension may have happened before the sale was actually official.

[Roogsy]

If the TFC supporters want to make some real, substantial change...

...I'd recommend the finger be pointed at Mr. Earl Cochrane before anyone else and I shall leave it at that.

I agree.

It's not a coincidence that every time there is drama at the club, Earl is in the middle of it. And probably like you, the things I have heard internally tell me he's a big part of the problem.

He needs to go.

As a sidenote, the term "Cancer" was thrown about quite freely when it came to DeRo...and yet the problems persist well after his departure. I ask people to re-evaluate their position and ask themselves who really have been the source of problems at this club. The players? Or management?

[Chevy]

True, the club is a mess. However that does not absolve Dero of his prodigious douchebaggery during his tenure here. Sorry.

[ensco]

:facepalm:

Seriously, this club is such a friggin' mess.

There was one question though, someone pointed out (in the article comments) that this extension actually happened when New England started chatting up Mariner. The question is, is this true? Because if that is the case, then the extension may have happened before the sale was actually official.

That would be fine. What I'm worried about is the desperate attempt to "have a plan that needs time to play out" messaging that the TFC FO want for their new overlords - they are capable of doing anything in support of that, no matter how much it handicaps the organization down the line.

[Roogsy]

That would be fine. What I'm worried about is the desperate attempt to "have a plan that needs time to play out" messaging that the TFC FO want for their new overlords - they are capable of doing anything in support of that, no matter how much it handicaps the organization down the line.

It truly is another MoJo but to a much greater degree.

The consequences of MoJo's mess is still being felt today. Can you imagine what the consequences of Anselmi's incompetence will be on this club long after he is gone?

That's why he needs to go immediately. But he won't. And lord knows the supporters won't push him out. Then who will? When the average fan walks away, they'll fire some, keep others and Uncle Tom will still be sitting on his fat ass in his MLSE offices screwing up the next edition of TFC.

[Canary10]

It truly is another MoJo but to a much greater degree.

The consequences of MoJo's mess is still being felt today. Can you imagine what the consequences of Anselmi's incompetence will be on this club long after he is gone?

That's why he needs to go immediately. But he won't. And lord knows the supporters won't push him out. Then who will? When the average fan walks away, they'll fire some, keep others and Uncle Tom will still be sitting on his fat ass in his MLSE offices screwing up the next edition of TFC.

In my experience being on boards, etc, when you have two warring factions in an organization you don't pick sides. You get rid of them all.

[Beach_Red]

It truly is another MoJo but to a much greater degree.

The consequences of MoJo's mess is still being felt today. Can you imagine what the consequences of Anselmi's incompetence will be on this club long after he is gone?

That's why he needs to go immediately. But he won't. And lord knows the supporters won't push him out. Then who will? When the average fan walks away, they'll fire some, keep others and Uncle Tom will still be sitting on his fat ass in his MLSE offices screwing up the next edition of TFC.

This is like Watergate with Deep Throat saying it goes all the way to the top. It's not Mo's mess, it's the way the organization was structured from the beginning - a bunch of middle-managers fighting each other for their positions. They bring in a guy like Mo with zero management experience (and very little coaching) and what a surprise, he's out of his depth. And that mess is the foundation this team has been built on. Now we're going to point to an assistant GM as the big problem?

[Roogsy]

This is like Watergate with Deep Throat saying it goes all the way to the top. It's not Mo's mess, it's the way the organization was structured from the beginning - a bunch of middle-managers fighting each other for their positions. They bring in a guy like Mo with zero management experience (and very little coaching) and what a surprise, he's out of his depth. And that mess is the foundation this team has been built on. Now we're going to point to an assistant GM as the big problem?

Cochrane isn't the problem, but he is a flashpoint.

I don't disagree with you and many others that Anselmi is the underlying problem to all of this. However, he is a much bigger fish to fry and for us to get immediate results, getting rid of him is too much of a monumental task. Especially when the elements of the fanbase that should be working to get rid of him are too busy stumbling over themselves to claim the prize of most martyred fan.

The truth is that if the supporters of Toronto FC as a combined group stood up and effectively protested Tom Anselmi, new ownership would have to take notice and maybe even get rid of him. But that's not gonna happen.

[TFC07]

WTF?

I am not fan of Winter as a coach, but I think he should still stick with TFC. Where's Mariner? How come our mainstream media not being aggressive and asking tough questions to some of these people?

I still think Steve Nicol should coach first team. He fits the bill what we need as a coach (successful MLS coach who can get the best of players without much resource)

[Beach_Red]

Cochrane isn't the problem, but he is a flashpoint.

I don't disagree with you and many others that Anselmi is the underlying problem to all of this. However, he is a much bigger fish to fry and for us to get immediate results, getting rid of him is too much of a monumental task. Especially when the elements of the fanbase that should be working to get rid of him are too busy stumbling over themselves to claim the prize of most martyred fan.

The truth is that if the supporters of Toronto FC as a combined group stood up and effectively protested Tom Anselmi, new ownership would have to take notice and maybe even get rid of him. But that's not gonna happen.

I huess it's this, "get rid of him," approach I question. The problem here is the management style, unclear roles for people, unqualified people, divided 'groups,' promotions based on individual loyalties - it's not an uncommon style for monopoly or government management. I do think that the new owners will change that style and make the whole place more responsible.

And by the way, I agree with you that working in dysfunctional conditions is a big factor in the way people react.

[tfcleeds]

The truth is that if the supporters of Toronto FC as a combined group stood up and effectively protested Tom Anselmi, new ownership would have to take notice and maybe even get rid of him. But that's not gonna happen.It would be great to get something like this in motion as the date draws closer, but sadly, I agree it's probably not going to happen, between growing apathy and the lack of a desire for more protests at the moment.

[Section 117]

When not if Winter gets fired you need to can all of FO. Here is who has to go Winter, DeKlerk, Marnier and Cochrane. They have all played a part in this disaster of a start to the season.. You need to cut the rot out period all of it not just half of it.

The Dutch don't like the MLS "guys" and vice versa there is a lot of distrust when one group brings in a player over the other ie. Caicedo perfect example not brought in by Winter and he lasted a week maybe.

TFC has the perfect replacement who could do all of their jobs and it would be a seamless transition as possible Thomas Rogen.

If i was incharge this is what would happen and if we get hammered by DC especially if Dero lights us up then yes time for all of them to go look for a job.

The difference between Mo's regime and this one is there was only Mo who was the self serving prick, conniving drunk red head. Preki came and up the ante as he pulled some serious under handed moves ie. kick backs on Mista and Joseph and blowing up the team and removing any and all leadership from the room. Which they have yet to recover from as there is no leadership on this team. This FO as it stands is a shit show people are trying to take other people's jobs, no working relationship with each other (you don't have to be friends, but at least pull in the same direction) which they are not. Bottom line they all have to go, but as we have seen over the last 5 1/4 years it is not going to completely change.

[Roogsy]

When not if Winter gets fired you need to can all of FO. Here is who has to go Winter, DeKlerk, Marnier and Cochrane. They have all played a part in this disaster of a start to the season.. You need to cut the rot out period all of it not just half of it.

The Dutch don't like the MLS "guys" and vice versa there is a lot of distrust when one group brings in a player over the other ie. Caicedo perfect example not brought in by Winter and he lasted a week maybe.

TFC has the perfect replacement who could do all of their jobs and it would be a seamless transition as possible Thomas Rogen.

If i was incharge this is what would happen and if we get hammered by DC especially if Dero lights us up then yes time for all of them to go look for a job.

The difference between Mo's regime and this one is there was only Mo who was the self serving prick, conniving drunk red head. Preki came and up the ante as he pulled some serious under handed moves ie. kick backs on Mista and Joseph and blowing up the team and removing any and all leadership from the room. Which they have yet to recover from as there is no leadership on this team. This FO as it stands is a shit show people are trying to take other people's jobs, no working relationship with each other (you don't have to be friends, but at least pull in the same direction) which they are not. Bottom line they all have to go, but as we have seen over the last 5 1/4 years it is not going to completely change.

Bring in a real Team President.

Have a singular GM making signing decisions.

Have a manager that is solely responsible for on-field results.

Clean. Simple. Effective. If you want to streamline it even further, make the manager and GM the same guy and you have even more simplicity.

It's worked the world over. Only MLSE would decide to fix what ain't broke and try out some fandangled, complex structure that creates no transparency, generates animosity between partners and ultimately fails because of dysfunction.

Brilliant. Here is your raise Uncle Tom. :dita:

[TFC Tifoso]

I'd say removing Tom Anselmi and Earl Cochrane is the start, and maybe even the end of it....look at it this way....we had drama when Mo was here - and much of it had to do with his own "dealings", don't get me wrong - but its still here now that he's gone.....and what (who) is/are the common denominator(s) from the pre and post Mo days?......Earl the Pearl and Tommy Boy......

imo Winter and Mariner are soccer players with soccer minds and without the outside meddling and people whispering in their ears (moreso with Mariner, apparently) the two (three with De Klerk) can actually work together......

and buy blow up dolls to replace Anselmi and Cochrane since it seems to me that all they have are fancy titles giving them the entitlement to think they should actually have a say with what goes on with this team........

[Canary10]

It is truly a model for buck passing as it stands now. Winter can blame Mariner for not bringing in the right players. Mariner can blame Winter for not using his players properly. As a fan, no one even knows what the real roles and responsibilities are. Let the coach/manager have control over player acquisition too and at least there will be accountability, and the manager will be able to implement his vision.

[Section 117]

Bring in a real Team President.

Have a singular GM making signing decisions.

Have a manager that is solely responsible for on-field results.

Clean. Simple. Effective. If you want to streamline it even further, make the manager and GM the same guy and you have even more simplicity.

It's worked the world over. Only MLSE would decide to fix what ain't broke and try out some fandangled, complex structure that creates no transparency, generates animosity between partners and ultimately fails because of dysfunction.

Brilliant. Here is your raise Uncle Tom. :dita:


Roogsy, to fix this give complete control to Thomas Rongen. I know people that deal with him on a regular basis and they all support him and told me he could do all of the jobs and do them better then who we have in place.

The more I think about this I think before MLSE hired Klinsman if they would have brought in just Marnier and kept Dasovic as coach we probably not have made the run in champions league, but we would be significantly better in the league and the last year and this year would not have been a write off and we would have probably gotten into the playoffs last year.
Fuck me I just realized I have officialy written this year off and we are in the first week of May. :facepalm:

[Blizzard]

TFC has the perfect replacement who could do all of their jobs and it would be a seamless transition as possible Thomas Rogen.


Christ no. He hasn't had a winning season since 1999! With Chivas he was 1-1-8. Don't even think about it.

[Greatest Ripoff]

Bring in a real Team President.

Have a singular GM making signing decisions.

Have a manager that is solely responsible for on-field results.

Clean. Simple. Effective. If you want to streamline it even further, make the manager and GM the same guy and you have even more simplicity.

It's worked the world over. Only MLSE would decide to fix what ain't broke and try out some fandangled, complex structure that creates no transparency, generates animosity between partners and ultimately fails because of dysfunction.

Brilliant. Here is your raise Uncle Tom. :dita:


This is 100% spot on. When Winter goes, everyone currently in place needs to be relieved as well and this has to be implemented. Toronto can change coaches another 6 times but without a complete clear out they'll end up in the exact same situation.

[Blizzard]

Bring in a real Team President.

Have a singular GM making signing decisions.

Have a manager that is solely responsible for on-field results.

Clean. Simple. Effective. If you want to streamline it even further, make the manager and GM the same guy and you have even more simplicity.

It's worked the world over. Only MLSE would decide to fix what ain't broke and try out some fandangled, complex structure that creates no transparency, generates animosity between partners and ultimately fails because of dysfunction.

Brilliant. Here is your raise Uncle Tom. :dita:

It starts at the top. We need a tried and true experienced soccer exec to run the show. It has to happen or they might as well just shut it down.

[Section 117]

Christ no. He hasn't had a winning season since 1999! With Chivas he was 1-1-8. Don't even think about it.


Disagree it was different then, plus he was coaching an expansion side trying to play a 4-3-3. This team with the exception of the back 4 is more talented then we ever had and also a lot better then that Chivas side. This would be a short term fix till the end of the year. At that point with Rongen with full control of the operations he hires his coach and then he focuses on the Academy and finding players. He knows the league check, he has won in the league check, he plays a 4-3-3 check.

I am not sure what else is needed he has all of the experience we want in a coach, he also has the philosophy the club wants to move forward with so I am not sure what the hell they are waiting for. This is gift wrapped for MLSE a ready replacement in house.

Also, further to the fuck up that is the FO and Mo, we had Peter Norwak coach of Philadelphia here year 1 as Mo's assistant he was supposed to get the head coaching position, but he saw and realized the shit show TFC FO was at the time and he bolted for Philly. So we have been screwed by Mo so many times it is not funny. I wish I could see that red headed drunk and just blast him for the unconceivable amount of damage he has caused this team.

[Beach_Red]

It starts at the top. We need a tried and true experienced soccer exec to run the show. It has to happen or they might as well just shut it down.

I'd be curious to see a survey of expansion franchises in North American sports - I'm guessing that success or failure has a lot more to do with team president than coach or manager.

From the very beginning TFC gave its coaches short-term, one year contracts with vague promises of better deals later. It was a tentative move by a pension fund not wanting to take any risks and we've suffered for it ever since.

[Roogsy]

It starts at the top. We need a tried and true experienced soccer exec to run the show. It has to happen or they might as well just shut it down.

At this point, I may have to acquiesce and simply accept that it's not just Winter that needs to go (and he does need to go), it's the whole lot. They're a pathetic circus of clowns.

[Canary10]

At this point, I may have to acquiesce and simply accept that it's not just Winter that needs to go (and he does need to go), it's the whole lot. They're a pathetic circus of clowns.

This sounds like a forging of a common ground that all supporters can get behind.

[Section 117]

At this point, I may have to acquiesce and simply accept that it's not just Winter that needs to go (and he does need to go), it's the whole lot. They're a pathetic circus of clowns.

Roogsy you can be my numbers guy and keep the cap under control and I will run the show hands down we can stabilize this team and put them on the right track. We can't fuck this team up more than it already is.

[Greatest Ripoff]

At this point, I may have to acquiesce and simply accept that it's not just Winter that needs to go (and he does need to go), it's the whole lot. They're a pathetic circus of clowns.


I don't know how there can be an argument to sack Winter and no one else. He has only been here a year and half but this team has been shit for 6 years. The problems are much larger than the 6 differ coaches. They ALL need to go.

[Blizzard]

MoJo's assistant in year one was Bob Gansler not Peter Nowak. Nowak was coach of the USA U-23's in 2007.

Explain how Rongen took a 1999 MLS Cup champion DC United (built by Bruce Arena) and drove them into the ground in 2000 and 2001.

[Blizzard]

I'd probably leave the academy staff relatively intact or at least give the incoming administration the option of keeping or cutting. Other then that though, ya.

[Huyton]

Then look at these Rongen stats:

Rongen
2005........1..........8........1 Chivas)
2001........8........16........2 DC United
2000........8........18........6 DC United
1999......17..........9........9 DC United MLS Cup winners
1998........9........17........6 New England
1997.......11.......17........4 New England
1996.......19.......12........1 Tampa Bay MLS Cup Winners
Total.......73.......97......29

The last time that Rongen had a mens team (rather than a University or U-20 national team) was in 2005 with Chivas: won 1, drawn 1, lost 8. Of the seven seasons he's been in charge of an MLS side, he's had 2 seasons where he won more than he lost.

So, even if you forgive him his atrocious record with Chivas, then take a look at what happened when he inherited the DC United team from Bruce Arena in 1999. How good were DC United in 1998? They were MLS Cup runners up, Supporters Shield Runners up, CONCACAF Champions Cup winners and Interamericana Cup winners.

You can see how they did in 2000 and 2001 when they were Rongens team.

[Blizzard]

Then look at these Rongen stats:

Rongen
2005........1..........8........1 Chivas)
2001........8........16........2 DC United
2000........8........18........6 DC United
1999......17..........9........9 DC United MLS Cup winners
1998........9........17........6 New England
1997.......11.......17........4 New England
1996.......19.......12........1 Tampa Bay MLS Cup Winners
Total.......73.......97......29

The last time that Rongen had a mens team (rather than a University or U-20 national team) was in 2005 with Chivas: won 1, drawn 1, lost 8. Of the seven seasons he's been in charge of an MLS side, he's had 2 seasons where he won more than he lost.

So, even if you forgive him his atrocious record with Chivas, then take a look at what happened when he inherited the DC United team from Bruce Arena in 1999. How good were DC United in 1998? They were MLS Cup runners up, Supporters Shield Runners up, CONCACAF Champions Cup winners and Interamericana Cup winners.

You can see how they did in 2000 and 2001 when they were Rongens team.

Bingo!

[denime]

Yeah,but we all keep forgetting one thing,T.Rongen managed to get 1st win The American Samoa in 17 years and after 30 lost games and thanks to that win The American Samoa end up being 189 on FIFA ranking in 2011,bets ever for them.

So if he was able to win with The American Samoa amateurs I think he would be able to turn our amateurs and coached them to the 1st victory in MLS 2012 season. TFC is on the same path as The American Samoa,should we wait until we are 0-30 and than hire him?:D

[narduch]

TFC should be doing everything in its power to get Bob Bradley. There's a candidate worth going after.

I wonder if he can be persuaded to leave the Egypt job? They canceled their league, the country is still kind of in turmoil.

[denime]

TFC should be doing everything in its power to get Bob Bradley. There's a candidate worth going after.

I wonder if he can be persuaded to leave the Egypt job? They canceled their league, the country is still kind of in turmoil.

Why should he come here,TFC is in bigger turmoil than Egypt FFS.

[Huyton]

Yeah,but we all keep forgetting one thing,T.Rongen managed to get 1st win The American Samoa in 17 years and after 30 lost games and thanks to that win The American Samoa end up being 189 on FIFA ranking in 2011,bets ever for them.

So if he was able to win with The American Samoa amateurs I think he would be able to turn our amateurs and coached them to the 1st victory in MLS 2012 season. TFC is on the same path as The American Samoa,should we wait until we are 0-30 and than hire him?:D

Only if we play Tonga.

[jloome]

Is Guus Hiddink still on $2M a year? I'm probably horribly out of date on big manager salaries. But he'd be worth voiding JDG's contract.