GAME THREAD- TFC @ RSL,Saturday,Apr.28 -9PM

[denime]

Game thread is open,and so is chat-box for RPB members only.

[Island Man]

We've never lost playing the supporters kit!

[__wowza]

streams?

[shwade]

Anyone have any linkages ?

[Island Man]

http://www.firstrowsports.eu/watch/121657/1/watch-real-salt-lake-vs-toronto-fc.html

[__wowza]

fuck me our kits look ugly.

[Red CB Toronto]

come on you Reds, time to win baby.

[Richard]

Radio Stream: http://player.rogersradio.ca/cjcl/on_air

Nigel Ried btw.

[Dkolish3]

Come on you Reds, Its still statistically possible that we make the playoffs!!!!!!

[Island Man]

Come on you Redsssssssssssss!!! #teamDufield

[Yohan]

http://www.firstrowsports.eu/watch/121657/1/watch-real-salt-lake-vs-toronto-fc.html
http://www.sportlemon.tv/v-4/0/22/v-402319.html

streams

[T-boy]

It's also statistically "possible" that I could win the lottery!

[Island Man]

That is why Avila is playing not fucking Plata

[Red CB Toronto]

What crap.

[ag futbol]

*sigh* Well at least Lambe looks to be adjusting to MLS now. Looks lively again

[ag futbol]

Penal, penal penal!

[MG42]

who is calling the game with dunleavy?

[DoubleUp]

wow this team!

[deltox]

hmmmm

[lobo]

fuck me our kits look ugly.

our defending is pretty fugly too ... add our PK shooting to that list

fuck liverpool, gonna arrange a TFC friendly against my U18 girls, similar quality

[Richard]

who is calling the game with dunleavy?

Thomas rongen LOL.

[ag futbol]

My connection to this forum has been buggy as shit lately. Don't think it's my ISP either because everything else has been loading fine.

[Richard]

My connection to this forum has been buggy as shit lately. Don't think it's my ISP either because everything else has been loading fine.

Yes its the website.

[Ajax TFC]

who is calling the game with dunleavy?
Rongen

[ag futbol]

Questionable call ...

[shwade]

longest sigh of life.

[iy12l]

Cann wtf kind of marking was that!!!

[Yohan]

i predict 3-0 RSL at this rate

[iy12l]

Were so unlucky... we missed a PK

[Dkolish3]

I don't know what to say? We're not good seems too unoriginal

[Red CB Toronto]

The Reds have been lucky so far, with the poor marking tonight I see more goals against the Reds, hate to say it but it is the truth.

[deltox]

we are shit. you cant put a PK on net? come on.

[shwade]

The Reds have been lucky so far, with the poor marking tonight I see more goals against the Reds, hate to say it but it is the truth.

I don't understand how both our cbs can be caught ball watching...this is fucking basic.

[ag futbol]

Look on the bring side, we're not out of it yet... anything can still happen

[Flipityflu]

i honestly think that neither of our centre backs have been trained how to mark.

[ag futbol]

fff... johnson missed that header ... everything's ok... anger sharks swimming....


xOWxuagYztY

[Yohan]

RJ got so close :(

[iansmcl]

Dammit Johnson.

[Dkolish3]

I don't think we'll get a point all season

Maybe we need to bring a goat to the stadium, play on a full blue moon, not sell Babe Ruth to pay for a play, just do something

[Flipityflu]

I don't think we'll get a point all season

Maybe we need to bring a goat to the stadium, play on a full blue moon, not sell Babe Ruth to pay for a play, just do something

does the goat play centre back?

[Red CB Toronto]

Am I making a mistake venturing out to Montreal on Wednesday, back in June and then Philly in July, how much disappointment can a supporter take, but hey through thick and thin I shall be there. The Reds have been weak tonight out of a brief moment.

[andyc]

does the goat play centre back?

Well we do have one playing DM...

[iy12l]

cann and aceval need to go.. Put Emory and Doneil on before we see a 4-0 scoreline

[Toronto_Bhoy]

This colour guy sounds like a someone from the WWF…

[Dkolish3]

does the goat play centre back?

It might and it might be better than Aceval and Cann. Just for information the goat part is about the Cubs who didn't allow a goat into the stadium and haven't won since 1900's


So in comparison we haven't been to bad off

[AlanO]

That was horrible.

RSL might as well be playing against a USL team. They're better than TFC at every position and in every aspect of the game.

[Strans]

does the goat play centre back?

Does the goat take penalties?

[iy12l]

Henry needs to come on, atleast he can mark people

[iy12l]

Does the goat take penalties?

Does the goat coach a team?

[tfcleeds]

And to think we were all excited to have Cann back - he's arguably been the worst man on the pitch so far.

[AmherstNY_TFC]

How do you know your team sucks? When you have the only German international who can't take a penalty.

[Strans]

1-0 : we're both incredibly lucky and unlucky to have that be the scoreline.... so I guess it's just right?

Avila's speed causing problems, Frings' delivery on the corner was great.

The D....what is there to be said that hasn't been said already. Ugh.

[PopePouri]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_jWNU8uRzINc/TDM34nyp1bI/AAAAAAAAEI8/JJbqleV70QY/s1600/6180_Goater1_bmp-550x0.jpg

Bring the Goat out of retirement.

[Toronto_Bhoy]

scherp=sharp

"You've got be sharp at the start of the game."
—Thomas Rongen

[Flipityflu]

the goat will tear this league apart

[ag futbol]

Time to park the god damn bus in front of the net and try to hit on the counter attack.

Switching back to 4-3-3 won't exactly take years... but find the players first, in the meantime make use of what you have and realize your limitations.

[Lumpy]

Looking on the bright side of things 4 teams ahead of Toronto have already lost today and a fifth is losing 2-0. If we lose we don't lose any ground on 5 teams ahead of us and if we we win we pick up 3 points on 5 of the teams.

[Eastend]

Well that wasn't tooooooo bad......but we do look desperate and scared out there. I can't believe Frings missed the penalty. Just wow.

[Richard]

Sign the squirrel! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvDB73p_Xbs

[Eastend]

Can you say "FUCK"?????

[Dkolish3]

Yep we're cursed

[Flipityflu]

thats more like it.

[AlanO]

Now that was awesome! Great goal!

[shwade]

well this is different...

[Eastend]

Yesssss. Nice movement.

[Dkolish3]

Yep we're cursed That doesn't mean that people who play for us can't score

[DoubleUp]

well well well! who suggested avila play the wing :rolleyes:

[Yohan]

avila broke some ankles there.

[ag futbol]

That was a pretty damn nice goal. I wish Avila would show that kind of focus more often...

Anything can happen, anything can happen...

[Richard]

Off the post!

[ag futbol]

Well ... I hope at this point nobody is calling for Jao Plata

[shwade]

a team full of Avilas?

[Dkolish3]

We're STILL Cursed

[Yohan]

What's gone into Avila?

[ag futbol]

Somebody find another goat...

[Red CB Toronto]

Fuck this.

[Richard]

Unbelievable, thought we were playing real well but wtf?!

[Dkolish3]

Fuck it, an own goal after all that good play

[TFC USA]

Eckersley own goal.

[jazzy]

been saying for mths why is not Avila not playing ,.........someone on this coaching staff is missing the boat he had this last year.......ffs weird vibe though still happening. on this team....there;s that defense.we know

[rocktml]

Oh fuck Toronto lalalalala fuck toronto lalala

[[NBF]]

a team full of Avilas?

The formation right now looks like a 4-1-4-1, but whats the lineup?

---------------------Kocic-------------------
Eckersley------Cann-------Aceval------Morgan
---------------------Frings-------------------
Lambe--------Dunfield----DeGuzman------Avila
--------------------Johnson------------------

Were there any substitutions?

[Richard]

Henry at RB?

[shwade]

Cann is rusty as shit. Everytime Henry has played he's been our best defender AND a consistent threat with his headers.

[TFC USA]

Eckersley coming off.

[Flipityflu]

LOL Ecks off.

fuck off winter, you are a douche and should be fired in the morning. fucking ridiculous.

[shwade]

well wtf - Ecks for Henry? that's not what I meant Winter

[iansmcl]

Damn, Ecks be pissed.

Question: Did Saborio get a yellow for leaving the pitch? Or did the mls refs stop calling that?

LOL Diving.

[shwade]

Lolwut

[DangerRed]

Announcer: "Whoa. Richard Eckersley just walked off and totally dismissed Aron Winter's outstretched hand after being substituted off. He totally snubbed his coach."

Yeah, Winter's got FIRM control of the locker room.

[[NBF]]

The formation right now looks like a 4-1-4-1, but whats the lineup?

---------------------Kocic-------------------
Eckersley------Cann-------Aceval------Morgan
---------------------Frings-------------------
Lambe--------Dunfield----DeGuzman------Avila
--------------------Johnson------------------

Were there any substitutions?

[iansmcl]

Any dive should be a yellow, dudes.
Anyone else watching the stream?
*It may have been a dive, but it's not a yellow-card dive*

[A.J]

Apparently Ecks refused to shake Winter's hand as he was coming off

[rocktml]

Tenison between Eckersley and Winter

[TFC07]

Same old story.

[ag futbol]

Was that actually Eckersley man, or was Aceval being fat/slow in the middle?

[tfcleeds]

Apparently, Ecks refused Winter's handshake as he came off the pitch.

[shwade]

saving Ecks for MTL maybe?

[jazzy]

That was a pretty damn nice goal. I wish Avila would show that kind of focus more often...

Anything can happen, anything can happen...???

difficult with only 3 starts.......when he does start he makes the passes and moves,....with no help

[TFC07]

Was that actually Eckersley man, or was Aceval being fat/slow in the middle?

I think it was Aceval's man.

Anyway, Aceval should be subbed off.

[Fushida]

guys, chill with the ecks/winter drama without seeing any concrete proof. they never showed it on camera.. and these are the toolbag commentators that we laugh at week in week out. i mean, one just questioned whether a dive was a "yellow worthy dive". come on now.

[Flipityflu]

i wouldn't shake his hand either. if management aren't going to make the call to replace Winter, the players should.

[AlanO]

Was that actually Eckersley man, or was Aceval being fat/slow in the middle?
Think it was Cann. Either way, one of the CBs gave up on the play and left Saborio wide open.

[shwade]

surpised he didn't take off Avila for Plata.

side note: gadamn this forum is slower than aceval

[ag futbol]

I'm no Winter fan, but Eckersley's got to cool it a bit.

Besides, everyone knows you shake the boss' hand then go the bench a murmur 'douchebag' under your breath.

[DangerRed]

Man these announcers are a fucking joke. "Sabo?" "Javi?" Imagine an EPL announcer saying "Lamps with a beautiful free kick" or "Wazzo on a breakaway!!"

[rocktml]

fuck off aceval

[Dkolish3]

Aceval makes me want to cry then throw shit.

[PAOK17]

Any dive should be a yellow, dudes.
Anyone else watching the stream?
*It may have been a dive, but it's not a yellow-card dive*
Yeah that is so annoying. Actually the main commentator has been wrong so many times. He never wait to see the replay before making an outrageous claim like the call is wrong. There was an offside (not the goal one...before that) where RSL player was called and he immediately dismissed it only to be proven wrong by the replay.

And all dives are automatic yellows.

[ExiledRed]

it was a mistake to come out guns blazing at the half. It got us the goal, but the team is utterly burned out now.

[ryan]

OMG!!!

[[NBF]]

nice goal henry

[TFC07]

2-2

Henry with gol!

[AlanO]

Henry!

[Richard]

Fuck Off REF!

[shwade]

TOOT

[Flipityflu]

nice. a yellow for a shirt over the head. really?

[ExiledRed]

famous last words... get in...hahahaha

[A.J]

I wonder what Henry's shirt said. It was only visible for a second and he got a yellow for it as well. :S

[shwade]

this is the first time I've seen Emory in this match.

[Fushida]

are you fucking kidding me? this is mickey mouse at its fucking finest. he didn't even take off his goddamn shirt.

[ryan]

Fuck Off REF!


You can't back the ref giving the auto yellow on a dive, then slag him for giving the auto yellow for pulling up the shirt. It is what it is.

[iansmcl]

I must ask again, did Saborio get a yellow for leaving the pitch w/o permission? I didn't see...

[Dkolish3]

Sometimes it pays to take off ecks

[shwade]

Ecks can't be too pissed now can he

[iy12l]

Henry - first academy player to score!

[Lumpy]

Good coaching putting Henry in.

[ExiledRed]

that was a great fucking goal. Where did that energy come from?

[ag futbol]

Great goal by Henry.

[PAOK17]

so before Henry scored I was going to say that the only reason you don't sub eckersley is because you usually don't make defender subs when you're losing. Having said that, Ecks isn't immune to being benched either. I guess now he's probably a little bit more humbled seeing that Henry scored.

[Dkolish3]

Henry - first academy player to score!

Didn't Lindsay score?

[Richard]

You can't back the ref giving the auto yellow on a dive, then slag him for giving the auto yellow for pulling up the shirt. It is what it is.

I made no comment about the dive.

[iy12l]

idc if we tie, just get a point!!

[jloome]

New site is awful. Crashes constantly.

Guys are out of gas. Not closing anymore. This'll be close to retain the point.

[ag futbol]

Can't complain about that ... he pulled his shirt over his head, I don't know any league these days where they won't yellow that every time.

[Lumpy]

Go for the 3 or die trying.

[ryan]

I made no comment about the dive.

So? The ref isn't being unfair. I gave you an example of how it's going both ways.

[iy12l]

omg we keep sitting, there gonna score if we keep relaxing

[ryan]

what a wasted chance...dear god..

[Dkolish3]

Come on Frings

[Richard]

So? The ref isn't being unfair. I gave you an example of how it's going both ways.

Yes i know, refs are shit in MLS.

[MG42]

yikes lol

[iy12l]

thank god that goal was disallowed....for the second time....

[rocktml]

3-2 RSL mark my words

[shwade]

this is the nicest an ref has been to us

[iy12l]

i hope we score the winner

[jazzy]

those Plata lovers, he just ruined a beautiful counter , with his ridiculous back pass out of scoring position.....

[Richard]

Fuck sakes!

[ag futbol]

Is anyone surprized ? grrrooooaaaannnn

[iansmcl]

Fuck the world.

[Fushida]

LOL can't buy a point

[iy12l]

fuck!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[TFC07]

Heartbreak loss!

[jloome]

Un-be-fucking-lievable.

Even when we're good, we can't win.

[rocktml]

what I fucking tell you!!!!!!

[tfcleeds]

Well, you could have scripted that, couldn't you? My goodness, this team is cursed.

[Dkolish3]

Gutted

[ExiledRed]

ah shit.

The lads deserved a point at least.

[ag futbol]

Somebody find a herd of goats

[shwade]

there it is. by a guy named Johnny Steele no less.

[romburgundy]

Fuck this shit!

[Toronto_Bhoy]

I've seen this movie before…

[69Chevy396]

[QUOTE=shwade;1480788]this is the nicest an ref has been to us[/QUOTE Frings worst game yet. All three DPs are a bust in my opinion.

[Red Adder]

great setup by beckerman. man that hurts

[iy12l]

this wasnt Arons fault tbh... missed pk, own goal, goal in 93rd, easy chance missed by plata and johnson... It doesnt matter if we had Jose Mourinho and Pep Guardiola, we are a cursed city.

[UltraSuperMegaMo]

Just saw the post game with Winter, he looks like he's ready to cry.

[T-boy]

It wasn't Winter's fault. But you could see that RSL goal coming a mile away, no team can deal with that much pressure on them and not cave eventually.

TFC had a few chances, but RSL deserved the vitcory overall, I'd say. TFC were good on the counter attack and had a good spell at the beginning of each half - but RSL were vastly on top for long periods of time and coule have scored 2 or 3 more realistically.

A good effort by TFC, but really the only stat that counts at this moment is 0-7 :(

[asterix606]

Brutal! We could have won this game!

And to top this shit night:

Montreal wins
Vancouver wins
DC United wins (2 goals from Santos and 1 from DeRo)

[Waggy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bgcjFbzoMg&feature=youtu.be&t=50s

[jloome]

This site needs database optimization and a cache flush, if it's running one. This isn't server overload or we'd be getting 502 errors. If it's wordpress based there are some free widgets that will handle this easily. Just an idea, maybe wrong but worth mentioning in case.

As for the game... eh, it still comes down to players stepping up when they need to and making plays. We went down on bad marking by Cann, who probably should have had a head on the second one, too. Plata and Johnson should have buried the game; Frings is facing a 5'10 goalie and tries to stutter step him instead of just going sidenet.

I got more of a sense of passion and testicles off Rongen than Winter has shown yet. The latter may have afforded us good offensive movement, but at some point, when you play other teams even and keep losing anyway, the motivational ability has to be called into question.

[king dave]

I tought that was a very well played game and we had a few chances to catch it (Frings penalty boot was beyond).
But I usually keep my ops to myself as the hierchy around here keep me on a short leash.
But I did enjoy the game and the away form of TFC was surprisingly very good.
Chin up kids. You'll get 'em next week.











Not!
KD.

[kuku]

Well, at least we'll get a shot at that 0-8 record!

[Code Red]

*sigh*

[iy12l]

This isnt winters fault, most teams lose like 2-0 at rsl and the fact that so much unlucky things happened doesnt mean it was winters fault.

[ExiledRed]

this wasnt Arons fault tbh... missed pk, own goal, goal in 93rd, easy chance missed by plata and johnson... It doesnt matter if we had Jose Mourinho and Pep Guardiola, we are a cursed city.

Altitude obviously was working against us, and yes the lads deserved a point, but not three.

Arons not at fault for the loss? sure he is. His team cant buy a point.

[ag futbol]

What can you say? Heartbreaking stuff. Give the guys full points for effort.

Unfortunately, AW is almost out of time and can't afford anymore bad luck

[kuku]

Sweet. That 0-8 record will come against DC United. DeRo & Maicon are gonna kill us.

[Toronto]

It wasn't Winter's fault. But you could see that RSL goal coming a mile away, no team can deal with that much pressure on them and not cave eventually.

TFC had a few chances, but RSL deserved the vitcory overall, I'd say. TFC were good on the counter attack and had a good spell at the beginning of each half - but RSL were vastly on top for long periods of time and coule have scored 2 or 3 more realistically.

A good effort by TFC, but really the only stat that counts at this moment is 0-7 :(


The fact that we're 0-7 and the laughing stock on the continent is WINTERS fault. Put him on the first KLM flight to Holland.

[iy12l]

Fucking adrian cann and aceval were playing like 5 year olds... cann cant mark anyone for shit

[T-boy]

You could argue that Winter really needs to work on the defensive organisation. RSL should never have been allowed that much room from that first corner to score a goal. TFC had to work and chase the game from that point on. TFC looked vulnerable from every cross and corner, TFC have had that issue ever since Winter took over.

[T-boy]

Sweet. That 0-8 record will come against DC United. DeRo & Maicon are gonna kill us.

How ironic would it be of those two players put the final nails in Winter's TFC coffin? You can almost predict that it happens, can't you?

[Abou Sky]

Can't really complain about TFC or Winter, that was a great game. That last minute goal was heartbreaking.

I really don't think after that people can be calling for Winter's head, everything went well, had Soolsma, Koovermans and Silva been available that could have been a very different game.

Have to say, boys did well, Winter did well. I would have liked a win but no complaints about that game.

It would be nice to have Frei back, I love Kocic but he is on/off at times and he hasn't been in top form past couple of games.

[T-boy]

Also, one thing this game highlights - is WHY hasn't Winter been starting Avila before this game? He was by far TFC's best players today! I've been saying it all season, that boy needs to be playing, he's got skills and passion!

[ExiledRed]

How ironic would it be of those two players put the final nails in Winter's TFC coffin? You can almost predict that it happens, can't you?

Yes DeRo's vengeance would be funtime for the media.

[TFC Cityboy]

Best performance of the season but woeful defending on all 3 goals..fuck this

[TFC USA]

We should've gotten a point. Which of course would've logically done wonders for the team's confidence and lead straight to a winning streak because we're like Wigan. We fuck around when we want to.

Actually no, we lost because we suck. Bad teams lose in bad ways. Absolute joke.

[ag futbol]

How ironic would it be of those two players put the final nails in Winter's TFC coffin? You can almost predict that it happens, can't you?
I'd bet good money that if we keep losing... that'll be it. People will be frothing at the mouth with anger by that point.

That Montreal game isn't going to be easy either.

[DOMIN8R]

A few thoughts....



I liked the fan designed TFC kits. So shoot me.
RSL fans have come a long way. I have new found respect for Salt Lake. R E S P E C T
More than any previous year – I’m impressed with the quality of MLS (this year). I find almost every MLS game very enjoyable to watch in 2012 – largely because of the improved quality and athleticism in the league.
Our defense still needs tweaking.
Altitude, away, it is RSL(!) at home - I think that we still showed character. It’s not enough. But I’m still impressed.
I am pleased that we have talent across the whole line. Not just a few starters. Today Henry, Morgan, et all, - looked like they were professional football players. I’m so happy that we don’t rely on 3-4 players to be a competitive side. The talent spread gives me hope.
We have often play better than the score line. Today may be a good example of that.
Winter needs a full 2 seasons before we can really pass judgement.


Open flame throwers......

Oh....and Frings. He's no SUPERHERO. So let's let him play one position well and not be all things - to all fans. 2 B I G mistakes in in 2 games. Scorn me for not being absolute in my fondness. He's good. But we can't expect a player of his age to do e v e r y t h i n g.

Good Night, Toronto.

[Waggy]

You could argue that Winter really needs to work on the defensive organisation. RSL should never have been allowed that much room from that first corner to score a goal. TFC had to work and chase the game from that point on. TFC looked vulnerable from every cross and corner, TFC have had that issue ever since Winter took over.

Watch the CB's on all 3 RSL goals. You won't find 1 in the right position, even attempting to guard their man, on any of them. That's on Mariner if anyone. He brought Aceval in. Dude looked terrible. The only reason he wasnt the cause of 2 or 3 goals against was some INCREDIBLE luck with offsides and RSL missing chances

edit: outside of the CB's, I thought we played fairly well. Though I thought we played fairly well last week as well. Same thing happened to start the 2nd half too. Dominated for exactly 10 min, and in the 55th give up one half chance that winds up in the back of the net and just takes the wind right out of the sails.

[TFC USA]

Need a full two seasons? Fuck that. We have 5 wins out of 40 something games under him. That's worse than every single coach we've ever had. That is atrocious. I gave him the BOTD until last week.

It's times like this where I wish we had relegation in MLS so we couldn't push these bullshit excuses for our fucking worthless managers. But no, we get rewarded with draft picks and two or three wins where we look good and some close losses. I'm not falling for it again.

This team needs to be wiped out. Not the players, the coaches, the front office, and ownership.

[ExiledRed]

Can't really complain about TFC or Winter, that was a great game. That last minute goal was heartbreaking.

I really don't think after that people can be calling for Winter's head, everything went well, had Soolsma, Koovermans and Silva been available that could have been a very different game.

Have to say, boys did well, Winter did well. I would have liked a win but no complaints about that game.

It would be nice to have Frei back, I love Kocic but he is on/off at times and he hasn't been in top form past couple of games.

The players came out too hard in the second half and ended up winding themselves. After that they were very stumbly and made lots of mistakes. They seemed to get a second wind leading up to that corner, which got them a goal, but it was surprising that RSL took so long to reply, because our energy was obviously done by the 84th. This is my opinion, and I was admittedly watching a grainy tv feed and listening to Utah commentators.

Our lads fought, its obvious they dont want that losing record, Im absolutely convinced we have good players, and I feel bad for them. What is playing out there right now? Is Winter's system being followed? Are players taking things into their own hands at certain intervals? There certainly doesnt seem to be a consistent approach, and Im not going to see the lads blamed for every loss and winter praised whenever they nearly snatch a point.

[rocker]

umm, a 3-2 loss to RSL isn't that bad... . imagine this was some mid-season match where TFC was doing OK in the standings -- you'd think "hey, great effort playing a really tough team -- a team I always praise on the board, a team that's lost 4 games at home in 3 years -- that's not bad." Right?

of course losing 6 games before that makes it worse, and losing the tie so late makes it even more heartbreaking. Sigh.

[billyfly]

Man oh man.

This sux.

[boomcha]

This isnt winters fault, most teams lose like 2-0 at rsl and the fact that so much unlucky things happened doesnt mean it was winters fault.


Really? It's not?? Then who's fault is it then? It's 7 straight MLS losses!! 7!! Last year we had our most embarrassing losses handed to us. At home loss 6-2 to the Union anyone?

JDG has to go. He is a cancer that has f'ed us since he came in. He has not produced at all. Visions of grandeur but in reality he is useless. Dunfield has to go, Ty Harden out. We have way too many players that we are still giving chances to for no damn good reasons. I understand wanting to build Canadian soccer and supporting but it's costing us BIG time.

The Dutch experiment has to be over. No results no job.

[Richard]

I'd bet good money that if we keep losing... that'll be it. People will be frothing at the mouth with anger by that point.

That Montreal game isn't going to be easy either.

If we loose to Montreal i think he will be gone before the DC game. I think at this point the next league game is make or break.

[T-boy]

umm, a 3-2 loss to RSL isn't that bad... . imagine this was some mid-season match where TFC was doing OK in the standings -- you'd think "hey, great effort playing a really tough team -- a team I always praise on the board, a team that's lost 4 games at home in 3 years -- that's not bad." Right?

of course losing 6 games before that makes it worse, and losing the tie so late makes it even more heartbreaking. Sigh.

The 3-2 loss, and the effort by the players was great. But then again, how many TFC fans/Toronto people saw that game? maybe a couple of hundred as it was on Gol tv?

So, really the rest of the fans, and the public of Toronto are only going to see one stat - another LOSS.

The manner of the loss is irrelevant in the end of the day, most fans are just going ot see this as a loss, and consequently 0-7.

[ExiledRed]

umm, a 3-2 loss to RSL isn't that bad... . imagine this was some mid-season match where TFC was doing OK in the standings -- you'd think "hey, great effort playing a really tough team -- a team I always praise on the board, a team that's lost 4 games at home in 3 years -- that's not bad." Right?

of course losing 6 games before that makes it worse, and losing the tie so late makes it even more heartbreaking. Sigh.

You're right, for an average team having an average season, dropping points at Rio Tinto is normal, and in the situation you describe, yes it would be acceptable. It would be a bad day.

The difference is, that this was a good day for TFC .

When you cannot lose, you cannot lose. Watch the bottom feeders fight for their lives in any league with relegation, they are all capable of giant killing. This was a game we had to fight for, and we actually showed some teeth but we lost, and Winter has to take that loss and add it to the other six.

[Lumpy]

Really? It's not?? Then who's fault is it then? It's 7 straight MLS losses!! 7!! Last year we had our most embarrassing losses handed to us. At home loss 6-2 to the Union anyone?

JDG has to go. He is a cancer that has f'ed us since he came in. He has not produced at all. Visions of grandeur but in reality he is useless. Dunfield has to go, Ty Harden out. We have way too many players that we are still giving chances to for no damn good reasons. I understand wanting to build Canadian soccer and supporting but it's costing us BIG time.

The Dutch experiment has to be over. No results no job.

Winter didn't kick the ball on the penalty, Winter didn't hit the crossbar, Winter didn't miss a wide open header,Winter didn't score on his own net and Winter didn't build Salt Lake City at 4300 feet to tire out Toronto at the end. Toronto played well and could have easily won the game.

[T-boy]

Yes DeRo's vengeance would be funtime for the media.

I honestly can't see how MLSE/Anselmi can let it get to that? Winter now has to leave, surely, because if he isn't fired, and then DeRo puts the final nail in the coffin next weekend, the media are going to be all out on MLSE and the front office.

I don't think Winter's job is even tenable anymore.

[T-boy]

Winter didn't kick the ball on the penalty, Winter didn't hit the crossbar, Winter didn't miss a wide open header,Winter didn't score on his own net and Winter didn't build Salt Lake City at 4300 feet to tire out Toronto at the end. Toronto played well and could have easily won the game.


But winter signed, or picked all those players, that did all those things. This is HIS team, and HIS squad of players now. Whatever happens on the field, is directly affected by what winter has chosen to do with the team. Winter HAS to be accountable, even if it is errors by individual players .

[ExiledRed]

Winter didn't kick the ball on the penalty, Winter didn't hit the crossbar, Winter didn't miss a wide open header,Winter didn't score on his own net and Winter didn't build Salt Lake City at 4300 feet to tire out Toronto at the end. Toronto played well and could have easily won the game.

So what did Winter do? Did he build a team capable of going to Rio Tinto with a good enough record that they didnt have to kill themselves to desperately try and claw a point, and could take a loss without it impacting the season?

[ensco]

Very tough.

Confuscious say "soccer teams that give up 3 goals a game finish dead last in their leagues"

[rocker]

The 3-2 loss, and the effort by the players was great. But then again, how many TFC fans/Toronto people saw that game? maybe a couple of hundred as it was on Gol tv?

So, really the rest of the fans, and the public of Toronto are only going to see one stat - another LOSS.

The manner of the loss is irrelevant in the end of the day, most fans are just going ot see this as a loss, and consequently 0-7.

Well, if numbers are all that matter, if beating RSL at RSL is easy, then fire Winter. lol.

[ag futbol]

If we loose to Montreal i think he will be gone before the DC game. I think at this point the next league game is make or break.
That is the next league game though, isn't it? I thought the Mtl game was for V's cup.

I had visions of DDR calling out Anselmi in his post-game speech. Really ugly dynamic to playing DCU at home with two extremely motivated former players against us. DCU has been playing a 4-3-3 lately as well.

[KRO]

Fucking adrian cann and aceval were playing like 5 year olds... cann cant mark anyone for shit

I see you've changed your scapegoats

[T-boy]

So what did Winter do? Did he build a team capable of going to Rio Tinto with a good enough record that they didnt have to kill themselves to desperately try and claw a point, and could take a loss without it impacting the season?


This is now TFC's and Winter's big problem. We now have lost so many games that we HAVE to go to places like Rio Tinto and get a result. We will need to go to Seattle, Portland, Vancouver and NYRB's and try and get a result too, if we are to get anywhere this season.

[TFC USA]

Aron Winter's MLS record: 6 wins, 20 losses, 15 draws: 42 goals scores, 75 against, 6 total clean sheets

Clearly this man needs the rest of the year.

[ensco]

When you cannot lose, you cannot lose. Watch the bottom feeders fight for their lives in any league with relegation, they are all capable of giant killing. This was a game we had to fight for, and we actually showed some teeth but we lost, and Winter has to take that loss and add it to the other six.

Wigan blasting Newcastle today is Exhibit A of what you are talking about.

[rocker]

Winter didn't kick the ball on the penalty, Winter didn't hit the crossbar, Winter didn't miss a wide open header,Winter didn't score on his own net and Winter didn't build Salt Lake City at 4300 feet to tire out Toronto at the end. Toronto played well and could have easily won the game.

+1

I agree fully.

[T-boy]

Well, if numbers are all that matter, if beating RSL at RSL is easy, then fire Winter. lol.


Unfortunately, in the end of the day, numbers ARE all that counts in ANY sport! And the number that counts right now is ZERO. Toronto have ZERO points.

I agree with you that TFC played well, and were "unlucky" in some ways. But the average TFC fan did NOT see that result, and so 0-7 and ZERO points is the main stat for those fans.

In soccer points mean prizes - effort counts for nothing unfortunately.

[Yohan]

I so hate being cockteased by this team. TFC was good enough for a point at RSL. but that shambolic defending... ugh

[Beach_Red]

This isnt winters fault, most teams lose like 2-0 at rsl and the fact that so much unlucky things happened doesnt mean it was winters fault.

I think you're confusing fault with responsibility. If Winter came out after these games and said he takes full responsibility for the team and its record, that would be different. But no one takes responsibility for this team.

[kuku]

Don't forget, Winter has guaranteed that we will make the playoffs this year.

[rocker]

Unfortunately, in the end of the day, numbers ARE all that counts in ANY sport! And the number that counts right now is ZERO. Toronto have ZERO points.

I agree with you that TFC played well, and were "unlucky" in some ways. But the average TFC fan did NOT see that result, and so 0-7 and ZERO points is the main stat for those fans.

In soccer points mean prizes - effort counts for nothing unfortunately.

Why should I care about the average Toronto FC fan?
Who is the average TFC fan?

[boomcha]

Winter didn't kick the ball on the penalty, Winter didn't hit the crossbar, Winter didn't miss a wide open header,Winter didn't score on his own net and Winter didn't build Salt Lake City at 4300 feet to tire out Toronto at the end. Toronto played well and could have easily won the game.

Could've. Should've. Would've. Excuses. Don't stand for them anymore.

Losers always whine about their best, winners go home and f*** the prom queen.

[ag futbol]

Well, if numbers are all that matter, if beating RSL at RSL is easy, then fire Winter. lol.
What a completely unreasonable thing to consider firing the coach who selected all the players you are blaming for making those errors!

[UltraSuperMegaMo]

At best a game like this is neutral from the sack Winter perspective. I still think if he goes 0-8, no matter how good the team looks in any individual game, he has to go.

[Lumpy]

But winter signed, or picked all those players, that did all those things. This is HIS team, and HIS squad of players now. Whatever happens on the field, is directly affected by what winter has chosen to do with the team. Winter HAS to be accountable, even if it is errors by individual players .

Some may want to hold Winter accountable for the errors made by players but many do not. Errors happen and hopefully you commit less than your opponent. Toronto doesn't do this very well. The team with the best players don't always win. You have to learn how to win. Toronto is still learning.

[ExiledRed]

What a completely unreasonable thing to consider firing the coach who selected all the players you are blaming for making those errors!

And making them rigidly adhere to a predictable gameplan, without using the purported system to adapt formations to the opposition.

[Rene Kingsriver]

Some may want to hold Winter accountable for the errors made by players but many do not. Errors happen and hopefully you commit less than your opponent. Toronto doesn't do this very well. The team with the best players don't always win. You have to learn how to win. Toronto is still learning.

That's a steep fucking curve eh

[zamperina]

The seasons over....CCL or bust!

[ExiledRed]

Some may want to hold Winter accountable for the errors made by players but many do not. Errors happen and hopefully you commit less than your opponent. Toronto doesn't do this very well. The team with the best players don't always win. You have to learn how to win. Toronto is still learning.

My friend they havent yet learned how to tie a game. what is your point?

[ag futbol]

Some may want to hold Winter accountable for the errors made by players but many do not. Errors happen and hopefully you commit less than your opponent. Toronto doesn't do this very well. The team with the best players don't always win. You have to learn how to win. Toronto is still learning.
This reminds of debating with people about "progress at the CSA". The argument is that we are never very far behind, but the competition goes around the world while we seem to fail to get out of bed. But we can still catch up.... hypothetically

What are we learning exactly, and how fast are we learning it? What is our benchmark for expecting a turnaround from this level of futility? Let's get real here, the performance of this team is beyond awful in so many different ways you can't even list them. This is the opposite of how this build was supposed to go.

[Lumpy]

Don't forget, Winter has guaranteed that we will make the playoffs this year.

Winter is a winner so he expects to win. That a good attidude to have. 5 of the teams ahead of Toronto lost today so they didn't lose ground. Only 8 points out of 4th place.

[T-boy]

Why should I care about the average Toronto FC fan?
Who is the average TFC fan?

I think some of you guys on this forum forget that WE here are NOT the average TFC fan! I don't believe for the second that most of the 17k season ticket holder are currently on chat forums' discussing the game on a Saturday night?

WE are the minority of the fans.

The majority of fans only see results as what matters, not "the team put in a good effort but still lost in RSL".

[Lumpy]

This reminds of debating with people about "progress at the CSA". The argument is that we are never very far behind, but the competition goes around the world while we seem to fail to get out of bed. But we can still catch up.... hypothetically

What are we learning exactly, and how fast are we learning it? What is our benchmark for expecting a turnaround from this level of futility? Let's get real here, the performance of this team is beyond awful in so many different ways you can't even list them. This is the opposite of how this build was supposed to go.

Hopefully you were not expecting to rebuild a garbage team (which Toronto always has been) into a winner in a little over a year. That would be a miracle.

[DOMIN8R]

Okay. Because so many think that it only take 1 year or 16 months to make an MLS contender (like NY, LA, RSL, etc. sarcasm) here's my request....for the sake of argument....those who think that we deserve a coaching change every year, please speak up.

[ExiledRed]

Winter is a winner so he expects to win. That a good attidude to have. 5 of the teams ahead of Toronto lost today so they didn't lose ground. Only 8 points out of 4th place.

As a coach, Winter has not proven to be a winner at all. His attitude seems to be one of contempt for the league and the players its developed, and eight points is huge, when you cant buy one.

[ExiledRed]

Hopefully you were not expecting to rebuild a garbage team (which Toronto always has been) into a winner in a little over a year. That would be a miracle.

The garbage team that was rebuilt had a much better record than this one. That doesnt take a miracle, thats incompetence.

[Rene Kingsriver]

Winter is a winner so he expects to win. That a good attidude to have. 5 of the teams ahead of Toronto lost today so they didn't lose ground. Only 8 points out of 4th place.

I've said this before but I don't think you can actually use the "only x number of points out" statement when we don't have any yet

[Beach_Red]

Winter is a winner so he expects to win. That a good attidude to have. 5 of the teams ahead of Toronto lost today so they didn't lose ground. Only 8 points out of 4th place.

All those teams expect to win, too.

And in reply to another of your posts, I just want to say that TFC has not always been a garbage team. In fact, almost any other year of TFC could beat this one.

[ag futbol]

Hopefully you were not expecting to rebuild a garbage team (which Toronto always has been) into a winner in a little over a year. That would be a miracle.
Other MLS teams have turned it around in less time, I see that as an acceptable benchmark and see absolutely no reason why we shouldn't hold the coaches here to the same standard.

Let's not forget that in reality this team is performing worse than the team that was blown up in the first place. That's not progress, it's going backwards. We are now talking about doing things we tried to do multiple times before but have failed to do.

Aron Winter likes to invoke "how things are done in europe" all the time. Well I'll venture a guess that you get fired for going 0-7 and running a terrible record in the league like he has.

[Lumpy]

I've said this before but I don't think you can actually use the "only x number of points out" statement when we don't have any yet

Yes you can. It's easy. Winners think that way. Losers say we will never catch up. We are only 8 points out of first. Piece of cake.

[iy12l]

Is there a video of when Ecks was pissed off with Aron? I wasn't there when it happened.

[Beach_Red]

Okay. Because so many think that it only take 1 year or 16 months to make an MLS contender (like NY, LA, RSL, etc. sarcasm) here's my request....for the sake of argument....those who think that we deserve a coaching change every year, please speak up.

Maybe you could tell us how many losses this should be allowed to go? Does TFC have to own every single record for futility before any changes are made?

[rocker]

What a completely unreasonable thing to consider firing the coach who selected all the players you are blaming for making those errors!

What a completely unreasonable thing to consider that players have to perform! Maybe we should tell JDG he's awesome and just get him another coach -- I guess that would be JDG's third? I've lost track.

[Code Red]

A loss is a loss no matter how it comes. The game is played for 90 minutes for a reason (in this case 94 due to added time). It's time to end this experiment. I was one of Winter's supporters but it doesn't look like it's going to work out for him. Though to be clear, I think MLSE is just as accountable as Winter for this hideous start to the season. Their incompetence is killing this club.

The fat lady has sung. It's time for us, supporters of this club, to show MLSE that this shit show has gone too far.

[Rene Kingsriver]

Okay. Because so many think that it only take 1 year or 16 months to make an MLS contender (like NY, LA, RSL, etc. sarcasm) here's my request....for the sake of argument....those who think that we deserve a coaching change every year, please speak up.

Who said anything about expecting an MLS Contender, we're bloody 0-7!!! I'd be happy with Montreal's record right now

[Rene Kingsriver]

Yes you can. It's easy. Winners think that way. Losers say we will never catch up. We are only 8 points out of first. Piece of cake.

Lol, you're an Impact or Crew fan taking the piss aren't you

[ExiledRed]

Maybe you could tell us how many losses this should be allowed to go? Does TFC have to own every single record for futility before any changes are made?

apparently no coach has ever gone three years without making the playoffs in MLS. If he sticks around long enough he could blow that one apart too.

[ExiledRed]

Lol, you're an Impact or Crew fan taking the piss aren't you

Im thinking it really is Craiger, having a laugh.

Lumpy, you're making yourself an awful target right now, after a loss and all.

[Lumpy]

All those teams expect to win, too.

And in reply to another of your posts, I just want to say that TFC has not always been a garbage team. In fact, almost any other year of TFC could beat this one.

TFC has always been lousy and their lousiness may have caused bitterness to surface in a few fans. New fans will take their place. TFC soccer is so much more enjoyable to watch now despite the losses.

[AmherstNY_TFC]

There is no way Winter is employed by Wednesday. Assuming MLSE stays true to form (short term solutions to keep the fans paying), Winter will be on his bike.

[T-boy]

Hopefully you were not expecting to rebuild a garbage team (which Toronto always has been) into a winner in a little over a year. That would be a miracle.

How about Martin O'Neill turning Sunderland from a relegation bound team into a top half of the premiership team in less than a month. Or Di Matteo turning Chelsea from having a very mediocre team into champions league and FA cup finalist in less than a month. Or Harry Rednapp turning porsmouth from another relegation bound team into a top half team in less than half a season. I can keep on naming instances where new coaches have come into a team and changed it almost instantly.

It doesn't need a miracle to turn a garbage team into a winnter, it just needs a decent coach. Winter hasn't proven that he's a decent coach. It's as simple as that! How long do we give him for christ sake? A good coach doesn't need 15 months to change a team into a winner! That's FAR too long, especially in pro football!

[ag futbol]

What a completely unreasonable thing to consider that players have to perform! Maybe we should tell JDG he's awesome and just get him another coach -- I guess that would be JDG's third? I've lost track.
His players, his job to get them motivated and performing. No that's not unreasonable, our players perform elsewhere but they can't here for some reason (how curious!).

The striker we had who we tried to bastardize into playing AM currently has as many goals as our entire team through 7 league games. One of many examples of us cycling players to no end, with no results to show for it. The issue isn't our players, it's the brain trust.

[rocker]

apparently no coach has ever gone three years without making the playoffs in MLS. If he sticks around long enough he could blow that one apart too.

You would have fired Sigi Schmidt and Peter Vermes before they had success in Columbus and KC, wouldn't you?
"Hey FAT SIGI, two years without the playoffs in a league where 8 teams make the playoffs... yer outta here!"
"Hey Pete, yer worse than Onalfo, the shithead you fired!"

You'd be Harold Ballard. lol.

[__wowza]

post game thread is up
http://redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?31611-Post-game-thread-tfc-2-rsl-3&p=1480889#post1480889