If things go to hell...

[Damien]

Just Asking.

*apparently i cant spell.

[billyfly]

If things go? I think they have.

[Flipityflu]

Steve Nicol

[Richard]

Well be like the phoenix coyotes to hockey.

[iy12l]

I would want BDK to take over.

[ag futbol]

Well be like the phoenix coyotes to hockey.
LA Clippers of foot hockey

[razor787]

Someone who knows the 4-3-3 system. Don't sack Winter until we have a couple potential new coaches who can work with what we currently have.

[ExiledRed]

Just Asking.

*apparently i cant spell.

If things go to hell its because of you

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_hrdwcncbaQ4/TCqwJlVlQiI/AAAAAAAACJ4/8Iw0g76wHgw/s800/Damien+Omen+II+(1978).png

[TFCRegina]

Armen Bedakian

[ArmenJBX]

^^^
I endorse that message.

[justin]

Someone who knows the 4-3-3 system. Don't sack Winter until we have a couple potential new coaches who can work with what we currently have.


I hear Pep Guardiola may be leaving Barca ;)

[Huyton]

Steve Nichol...Please!!

[ensco]

Frank Rijkaard

[prizby]

Pep Guardiola!

[Ossington Mental Youth]

Someone who knows the 4-3-3 system. Don't sack Winter until we have a couple potential new coaches who can work with what we currently have.

this but id prefer it doesnt happen at all.
ech. hate that this is even an issue for the team.
i cant remember is it 6 or 7 coaches in as many years?

[Red Rat]

Pep Guardiola!

can they pay him 20 mill a year? yeah I thought so.

[Red Rat]

Frank Rijkaard

he would have but I heard that he is happy with all the oil money,
maybe he will take Canadian Tire money?

[Red Rat]

Steve Nicol

I think this is far more credible

[[NBF]]

The general concept is that the first team needs to be a winner regardless of its Canadian content, but the depth players on the team need to be Canadians from what I understand. So regardless of who you want to bring in to manage the team you have to hire someone that can evaluate the first team players as well as the academy product coming through the academy, and especially have enough background in the game that he can easily bring in 11 players that can play together on the pitch.


Svennis:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d8/Svenleicestercity.png

[Detroit_TFC]

^ Ah'well

[TFCBarrie]

Mariner. Let's stop playing 4-3-3 and start playing some winning football.

[Nuvinho]

Coach: Steve Nicol
GM: Paul Mariner
TD: Aron Winter
Gone: Earl Cochrane

[prizby]

Coach: Steve Nicol
GM: Paul Mariner
TD: Aron Winter
Gone: Earl Cochrane

so much for trying to develop canadian management

[tfcleeds]

At this point, I could care less about where our management team comes from - I just want a winning team.

[Joe Kool]

errr...tis pity.

[Carts]

can they pay him 20 mill a year? yeah I thought so.

Actually, yes they could - quite easily...

Would they? No way in hell... lol

[Suds]

Coach: Steve Nicol
GM: Paul Mariner
TD: Aron Winter
Gone: Earl Cochrane

poor earl gets no love :)

[Carts]

Coach: Steve Nicol
GM: Paul Mariner
TD: Aron Winter
Director of Social Entertainment: Carts
Gone: Earl Cochrane

I fixed your post LOL!

[Red Rat]

Actually, yes they could - quite easily...

Would they? No way in hell... lol

I believe that they can afford him for sure, especially now that it is knonw that they are giving a Kia Rio to every RPB and Season tickets for life...
I believe that anything is possible, including winning the Stanley Cup

[Beach_Red]

Actually, yes they could - quite easily...

Would they? No way in hell... lol


The league doesn't make managemnt salaries public the way they do players salaries, right? All these coaches TFC has been through (on one year contracts), it would be intreresting to see how much they got paid compared to other teams' coaches. I wonder if they paid John Carver the same as Seattle paid Sigi...

There's no salary cap on management.

[lobo]

Mariner. Let's stop playing 4-3-3 and start playing some winning football.

I'm not convinced 4-3-3 is the problem ... thinking it's more motivational. Not sure Winter can get the best out of the players, and that is key to playing winning football, no matter what system is played.

[ensco]

so much for trying to develop canadian management

Who cares about this, at all? When did anyone say that developing Canadian management was a priority? It's just a line of thinking that enables people to keep their job when they should have lost it already, based on performance.

If that's the objective, Canadians should go abroad to develop managerial experience. FYI if you don't know it, there are a surprising number of Canadians in NFL FOs.

[smtavare]

I think that 4-3-3 is the problem, and we do not have the depth to carry it on.
Even if we do get 4-3-3 working, it only takes one player getting hurt, then the system goes to shit because the quality we have on the bench is not good enough to sustain it.

Until this league brings in more endorsements, marketing, and sponsorship for revenue in turn to increase the salary cap, the quality of play will never really be good enough to sustain such a system.

4-4-2 is an easier and cheaper way to go. It also doesn't require specialized directors or coaches needed for that type of system. Anyone can take over if the coaching fails the team playing 4-4-2.

That's my thought on this.

[Beach_Red]

Who cares about this, at all? When did anyone say that developing Canadian management was a priority? It's just a line of thinking that enables people to keep their job when they should have lost it already, based on performance.

If that's the objective, Canadians should go abroad to develop managerial experience. FYI if you don't know it, there are a surprising number of Canadians in NFL FOs.

Developing talent in internationally competitive fields is very tricky. Again (and sorry about this, but I see the parallels everyday), look at the movie and TV business with all its Canadian content rules trying to develop Canadian talent. What we see are lots and lots of Canadians working in the US and we have the perception that the Canadians working here are the ones who can't cut it at the most competitive levels. Canadian directors have won Academy Awards (and set box office records, I'm looking at you, James Cameron, Norman Jewison, Paul Haggis) for movies produced in the US but never for the movies produced here. We've been trying to develop Canadian movie producers for thirty years and we still can't get any box office success (we can argue about artistic merit forever, I guess, the way we can argue about attractive football, but we'll end up agreeing to disagree).

Sure, we'd all like to see Canadian management and Canadian players developed, but it's not really what we bu tickets to the games for, is it?

[prizby]

Who cares about this, at all? When did anyone say that developing Canadian management was a priority? It's just a line of thinking that enables people to keep their job when they should have lost it already, based on performance.

If that's the objective, Canadians should go abroad to develop managerial experience. FYI if you don't know it, there are a surprising number of Canadians in NFL FOs.

yep :) ken derrett with the Chargers

[RPB_RED_NATION_RPB]

as long as this (MLSE) at the helm ..Sir Alex could take over and still no results!

[Sweeper]

I think that 4-3-3 is the problem, and we do not have the depth to carry it on.
Even if we do get 4-3-3 working, it only takes one player getting hurt, then the system goes to shit because the quality we have on the bench is not good enough to sustain it.

Until this league brings in more endorsements, marketing, and sponsorship for revenue in turn to increase the salary cap, the quality of play will never really be good enough to sustain such a system.

4-4-2 is an easier and cheaper way to go. It also doesn't require specialized directors or coaches needed for that type of system. Anyone can take over if the coaching fails the team playing 4-4-2.

That's my thought on this.

+1

I don't think we would be where we are now with a 4-4-2. We have pretty good individual players in all positions and they would adapt fairly quickly to a 4-4-2 under a new coach (Steve Nicol). Keep the 4-3-3 in the Academy. I think you have to develop as a young player in the 4-3-3 or be exceptionally talented to learn it as an senior player.

[ensco]

Developing talent in internationally competitive fields is very tricky.

Cochrane is there because of his personal loyalty to Anselmi, and because, er.....that's it.

TFC (and really MLS) is currently no place to develop anything on the mgmt side. The teams don't even sign the players in this league.

Anyone building a career in soccer needs to try to figure out how to catch on with one of the 100-200 bigger clubs that are really good at this. That's how you get to be world class at talent identification/development and dealing with the agents. Also, learn Spanish. People with those two credentials will be the GMs in MLS in 10-20 years.

Even though it's a different sport, this article shows the thought process well. You've got to apprentice with the best.
http://www.torontosun.com/2012/01/31/giants-assistant-gm-a-lucky-canuck

[Greatest Ripoff]

+1

I don't think we would be where we are now with a 4-4-2. We have pretty good individual players in all positions and they would adapt fairly quickly to a 4-4-2 under a new coach (Steve Nicol). Keep the 4-3-3 in the Academy. I think you have to develop as a young player in the 4-3-3 or be exceptionally talented to learn it as an senior player.

If you watch the shape of this team when Johnson is played as a midfielder and Koevermans is played as a striker, Johnson tends to get pretty far forward. The shape resembles a 4-4-2 more than it does a 4-3-3.

[Sweeper]

If you watch the shape of this team when Johnson is played as a midfielder and Koevermans is played as a striker, Johnson tends to get pretty far forward. The shape resembles a 4-4-2 more than it does a 4-3-3.

With the wingers in a defensive formation, yes. When they attack and turn over the ball it gets ugly. The fact that we are always playing a goal down probably doesn't help.

[Beach_Red]

Cochrane is there because of his personal loyalty to Anselmi, and because, er.....that's it.

TFC (and really MLS) is currently no place to develop anything on the mgmt side. The teams don't even sign the players in this league.

Anyone building a career in soccer needs to try to figure out how to catch on with one of the 100-200 bigger clubs that are really good at this. That's how you get to be world class at talent identification/development and dealing with the agents. Also, learn Spanish. People with those two credentials will be the GMs in MLS in 10-20 years.

Even though it's a different sport, this article shows the thought process well. You've got to apprentice with the best.
http://www.torontosun.com/2012/01/31/giants-assistant-gm-a-lucky-canuck

And then learn MLS cap and roster rules. Still, it's kind of sad that an organization that claims to be one of the top sports management companies in the world can't develop any management. Maybe they could have a 'capologist' for NHL, NBA and MLS - come on guys, where's the synergy?

[ExiledRed]

We actualy play a 1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1 formation. But thats just my observation.

[iy12l]

Steve Nicol is shit, and his philisophy is shit too. 4-3-3 is the best formation, it might take a while but soon it will prevail. Aron might not be the right coach, but we can just hire another coach who knows 4-3-3 well.

[ensco]

And then learn MLS cap and roster rules. Still, it's kind of sad that an organization that claims to be one of the top sports management companies in the world can't develop any management. Maybe they could have a 'capologist' for NHL, NBA and MLS - come on guys, where's the synergy?

I really think "capology" is overrated. The impact of the cap is huge, because wealthy teams can't pay their way out of their mistakes, and it causes sclerosis (ie look at the NHL, it's not just the Leafs, the same 6 or 7 teams finish out of the playoffs every year).

But the existence of a cap doesn't really impact the skill set required. You always had to be financially smart, teams always had budgets. Some of these rules are arcane, but so are the rules and practices in about 167,000 industries.

[ExiledRed]

Steve Nicol is shit, and his philisophy is shit too.

Steve Nicol's philosophy has yet to be fully defined on these boards, but it is often attacked, so please enlighten us further.

[Ajax TFC]

I hear Louis van Gaal is out of a job... Lets hope it stays that way. On one hand his teams play well, and play like real teams, but on the other hand he has a complete disregard for the individual, which leads to his players hating him. Also he seems to have conflicts with control freak upper managements (see Bayern management not liking him for promoting and playing Kraft). So for the short term, I think he'd be a option, but I think he could also do a considerable amount of damage

[ensco]

Steve Nicol's philosophy has yet to be fully defined on these boards, but it is often attacked, so please enlighten us further.

Christ, all this philosphy talk. Stupidest line of argument ever. People are still fighting about the Liverpool-Roma final in 1984 I think.

Nicol used every formation known to man, depending on what he had on the team. Any google search of "Steve Nicol" and "formation" (something a few people here should really try before expressing an opinion) turns up all kinds of links like these:

http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-england-revolution/tag/_/name/houston-dynamo
http://nesoccertoday.com/?p=5414
http://www.thebentmusket.com/2011/6/22/2238322/new-england-revolution--death-4-3-3-formation

Here's what matters. Can you identify and develop talent? Compare Winter's lifetime record to this list: Clint Dempsey, Taylor Twellman, Shalrie Joseph, Steve Ralston, Jay Heaps, Jeff Larentowicz, Michael Parkhurst, Matt Reis, Pat Noonan.

Plus he did it mostly with Mariner.

I really don't know why Nicol would want to come here other than for the money, but we'd be fortunate to get anyone with a pedigree like this.

[Damien]

@exiledred great film.

Re: Winter ... I think he may have somewhere in his contract where he can take a diminished role clause?

[narduch]

@exiledred great film.

Re: Winter ... I think he may have somewhere in his contract where he can take a diminished role clause?

For his sake I hope he does, because if he doesn't he is bound to follow a similar post-MLS career path as Ruud Gullit.

[jloome]

Mariner. Let's stop playing 4-3-3 and start playing some winning football.

Yeah, it's the 4-3-3. That's why Colorado and KC are having such a crappy time with it.

[ExiledRed]

@exiledred great film.

Re: Winter ... I think he may have somewhere in his contract where he can take a diminished role clause?

I loved the bit when the guy gets trapped under the ice, but the first one is better.

Maybe assistant coach of the academy team?

[Damien]

Maybe assistant coach of the academy team?

You kinda wonder if Rongen gets bumped or if Rongen becomes technical director of the Academy with Winter as coach.

[ExiledRed]

You kinda wonder if Rongen gets bumped or if Rongen becomes technical director of the Academy with Winter as coach.

I did say assistant coach.

Personally I think a step down would be a bad move for him, I think he needs to resign, blame MLSE and get back into his environment and try and salvage what he can. He'll do better starting over in Holland than he will in MLS.

[Technorgasm]

Coach: Steve mother-fuckin Nicol
GM: Paul Mariner
TD: Aron Winter
head of Nicol fan club / resident drunk: NORBH

fixed

[james]

Lets just start supporting TFC academy sides instead. Atmosphere might be better anyways we can do what ever we want (flares exc.), if we get organised like we have for a few games in the passed its lots of fun!

[Yohan]

Yeah, it's the 4-3-3. That's why Colorado and KC are having such a crappy time with it.

add Vancouver to the list, though they play very defensive 4-3-3 which is more like 4-2-3-1