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denime
04-26-2012, 05:34 AM
Mornin'


No TFC News for now.


TFC TV


(http://www.torontofc.ca/video)Mexico’s Monterrey successfully defends CONCACAF Champions League (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/soccer/mexicos-monterrey-successfully-defends-concacaf-champions-league/article2414435/)





TFC Related Blogs !! (http://redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?29582-TFC-MLS-blogs-thread)



SUNSHINE (http://www.torontosun.com/sunshine-girl)




(http://www.torontofc.ca/video)

Fort York Redcoat
04-26-2012, 06:27 AM
Another year to Mexico repping our region. MLS needs to keep improving. Bigger squads, bigger salary overall.

scooter
04-26-2012, 07:02 AM
mornin d

Oldtimer
04-26-2012, 07:49 AM
Not a fan of Duane, but the Score has this piece which is worth reading:

http://blogs.thescore.com/footyblog/2012/04/25/rollins-winter-insists-on-bashing-a-square-peg-in-a-round-hole-at-toronto-fc/

Oldtimer
04-26-2012, 07:52 AM
From Duane:


The scuttlebutt around TFC circles is that Winter has to the end of next month’s Voyageurs Cup first round tie with Montreal to turn things around. Paul Mariner, or, possibly, former New England manager Steve Nicol could be brought in. Again, it’s not anyone’s preference, but it’s increasing becoming a possibility.

johnmolinaro
04-26-2012, 08:17 AM
I just published this on sportsnet.ca this morning.

Jeremy Hall close to debuting for TFC

http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/2012/04/26/mls_toronto_fc_jeremy_hall/

John Molinaro

Detroit_TFC
04-26-2012, 08:42 AM
I'm hoping Hall makes a difference but I don't really know what to expect after he's been sidelined for so long. Would accept any glimmers of forward progress at this point.

Roogsy
04-26-2012, 08:57 AM
The more I think about it, the more I like it.

Bring in Nicol dammit. I bet he would turn this team around in WEEKS not YEARS.

jabbronies
04-26-2012, 09:14 AM
The more I think about it, the more I like it.

Bring in Nicol dammit. I bet he would turn this team around in WEEKS not YEARS.

the name and reputation are pretty tempting...

reggie
04-26-2012, 09:33 AM
well at least we will be able to understand what NICOL says at his pressers,maybe lol.

mdc 77
04-26-2012, 09:48 AM
Its hard to look at Winter with his 6 wins in over 40 league matches while one of the most sucessful MLS managers ever sits on the sidelines and not want to make this change today. Its interesting, when Nicol took over New England he was their 5th manager in 7 years...sounds familiar.

I was reading on article on when Nicol and the Revs parted last year and this stands out as a reson to make this change ASAP;


The Revolution were on the verge of postseason elimination in 2002, but rallied to close the season with a 5-0-1 record, advancing against the odds to the MLS Cup final.
Late-season rallies and strong runs into the playoffs became a trademark of the Revolution.

http://articles.boston.com/2011-10-25/sports/30320866_1_steve-nicol-mls-coach-mls-cup

maninb
04-26-2012, 10:18 AM
I just published this on sportsnet.ca this morning.

Jeremy Hall close to debuting for TFC

http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/2012/04/26/mls_toronto_fc_jeremy_hall/


John Molinaro


Just what we need...another RB.....We need help in the middle not the wings...

ExiledRed
04-26-2012, 10:41 AM
The more I think about it, the more I like it.

Bring in Nicol dammit. I bet he would turn this team around in WEEKS not YEARS.

Bring him in now, before the 21st, and there could be substantial capitalisation on the 'Nicol's new team meets his old team' angle.

I know not everybody loves Liverpool (understatement), but seriously having Kenny's old friend in charge wouldn't hurt our prospects of picking up a shit hot loaner or two

Greatest Ripoff
04-26-2012, 10:52 AM
The more I think about it, the more I like it.

Bring in Nicol dammit. I bet he would turn this team around in WEEKS not YEARS.

So replace the third worst manager with the second worst manager from last year and the team improves in weeks?

ExiledRed
04-26-2012, 11:08 AM
So replace the third worst manager with the second worst manager from last year and the team improves in weeks?

no, I think he means replace the most inexperienced and underperforming coach in the league, with someone who is considered one of the most succesful coaches in the leagues history, and is also available.

Theres no way you can spin that Nicol is less competent than Winter, not even in Bizarro world would this be true.

ag futbol
04-26-2012, 11:08 AM
^ So... Shall we compare their entire body of work or cherry pick ?

Let's also consider that Winter has all the resources in the world at his disposal in comparison.

bones
04-26-2012, 11:14 AM
I just published this on sportsnet.ca this morning.

Jeremy Hall close to debuting for TFC

http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/2012/04/26/mls_toronto_fc_jeremy_hall/

John Molinaro


Thank you John for posting an article that isn't complaining about Winter!

I'm getting sick of reading the same damn thing about how Winter is on a short leash week after week. Square peg, round hole, blah blah blah. YES we know our D is like Swiss cheese. That must be addressed but in a VERY low salary capped league you're stuck with what you've got most of the time. We have Williams to come back yet and from what I saw when he played with Cann we were significantly better(not fantastic, I just said significantly better). I've watched every game this year, including going to MTL and although we've had lapses we look like an organized team playing instead of having games won based on incredible efforts at times from key players; Guevara, DeRo, Santos etc have won us games in the past on their individual efforts unlike this year. We are creating boatloads of chances playing the way we do both the second half of last year and so far this year, only we've got near misses and posts to hit this go around so far. Given a similar system in our youth area, with enough time they could fit in directly into the Senior team BUT if everyone is out to get rid of Winter and bring in Nicol (or whoever) it probably won't be 'the system' and we've wasted time and effort again. Can't we give the guy time and SPACE (aka stop asking the same damn questions about 'ooo at 0-whatever don't you worry about your position' or 'ultimately who's responsible') Winter is said to be always saying the same thing "unlucky" and "quality at the right time" because of the same questions over and over again. The one thing he does say and I feel a lot of people don't agree is "if you watch it from the beginning we have done it very well" translation, "ya we had 1 or 2 or (insert # of goals against here) lapses that killed us (and need to be addressed see above) BUT we're playing like a team and are creating a crap load of chances and NOT relying on an amazing individual effort. Is it that most reporters are just typical Toronto reporters with a hockey stick shoved up their arses and don't know enough to ask question about a formation at a given time during the game (assuming they're actually watching and paying attention to the whole game not just the high(low)lights)? Hence my thank you to John about his article.

Let's look at it this way, what repetitive questions would most reporters be asking Winter if 1 or 2 of the near misses went in and we're not 0-6 but with a tie or win thrown in there because watching some of the games (Cowlumbus really REALLY sticks out in my mind, where we should have won by a crapload) we should have a few points minimum? We are only 2 wins behind (with a ton of games left to play) from making the playoffs. Holy crap if in year 1 we were only 2 wins behind the last playoff spot with 5 games to play we'd be going bananas with excitement.

Ok, Techno got to rant yesterday, I guess today was my flip out. Agree or disagree with me on the fact that we're playing as a team and we can easily make the playoffs, and we need to give Winter at minimum till the end of the year and stop this rotating door of coaches, it doesn't matter to me, I have faith that we're still headed in the right direction.

Bones...

ExiledRed
04-26-2012, 11:21 AM
^ So... Shall we compare their entire body of work or cherry pick ?

Let's also consider that Winter has all the resources in the world at his disposal in comparison.

Yes please, do go ahead.

List Winter's coaching record and achievements next to Nicols.

You can even compare playing careers if you want.

And please also list how Ajax's ex assistant youth coach's resources which have failed yet to make a difference, are greater than that of a top 20 LFC alumni?

EDIT - I think i may have misinterpreted your post, if so, apologies.

zamperina
04-26-2012, 11:37 AM
As per Kurtis Larson Tweet Nigerian Striker John Oweri on trail with TFC

Roogsy
04-26-2012, 11:38 AM
Yes please, do go ahead.

List Winter's coaching record and achievements next to Nicols.

You can even compare playing careers if you want.

And please also list how Ajax's ex assistant youth coach's resources which have failed yet to make a difference, are greater than that of a top 20 LFC alumni?

I think AG is on our side...I think he was referring to calling Nicol the "3rd worst" manager...at least I hope that is what he meant.

Beach_Red
04-26-2012, 11:44 AM
^ So... Shall we compare their entire body of work or cherry pick ?

Let's also consider that Winter has all the resources in the world at his disposal in comparison.

Or really all we have to do is look at TFC's roster this year. It's hard to imagine Nicols not being able to get a couple of wins against Montreal with these guys.

jabbronies
04-26-2012, 11:54 AM
As per Kurtis Larson Tweet Nigerian Striker John Oweri on trail with TFC

he was on trail with Chivas a few weeks back and then with the Impact in the first week of april.

Huyton
04-26-2012, 11:58 AM
Always wondered how good the teams of Nichol/Mariner would have become if they'd been able to use DP's.

I hope that TFC is about to find out.

Greatest Ripoff
04-26-2012, 12:09 PM
I am not sticking up for Winter at all, I just hope the team aims higher than Nicol. What has Nicol done in the past two years to show he has what it takes to make Toronto any better? Especially in the mater of weeks.

Hitcho
04-26-2012, 12:09 PM
The more I think about it, the more I like it.

Bring in Nicol dammit. I bet he would turn this team around in WEEKS not YEARS.

Uh oh - Techno's gonna orgasm when he sees this. Get ready for more liberal splashings of NICOL - YEAH BITCHES!!! if these rumours gather pace... :D

TFCwestcan
04-26-2012, 12:15 PM
Time seems to be the killer at the moment, a few weeks from Williams & Hall's return, for some consistency of defence, for Soolsma & Koev's return, and with the brutal start time is not something we have right now.

ExiledRed
04-26-2012, 12:23 PM
Uh oh - Techno's gonna orgasm when he sees this. Get ready for more liberal splashings of NICOL - YEAH BITCHES!!! if these rumours gather pace... :D

hahahahahahaha awesome

Huyton
04-26-2012, 01:02 PM
John Oweri (sometimes Owoeri) is 5' 7".

http://www.allnigeriasoccer.com/football_pics/4808owoeri.jpg

There is very little on Wikipedia about his ability to score goals, but with the number of crosses we're just lofting into the box, do we need another short(-ish) forward?

Although, if he can find the back of the net, then TFC can use him.

ag futbol
04-26-2012, 02:51 PM
Theres no way you can spin that Nicol is less competent than Winter, not even in Bizarro world would this be true.
That was intended for the post above yours ... sorry should have quoted it.

johnmolinaro
04-26-2012, 03:31 PM
I just published this on sportsnet.ca:

Johnson, Eckersley defend Winter
http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/2012/04/26/mls_toronto_fc_aron_winter_ryan_johnson/

John Molinaro

denime
04-26-2012, 03:38 PM
I think AG is on our side:facepalm:...I think he was referring to calling Nicol the "3rd worst" manager...at least I hope that is what he meant.

Is this what is it all about,winning the argument on internet? our side vs who? Who is the other side?last time I checked this was TFC supporters site.

Roogsy
04-26-2012, 03:54 PM
Is this what is it all about,winning the argument on internet? our side vs who? Who is the other side?last time I checked this was TFC supporters site.

Um...our side "of the argument". If you didn't understand that, I don't know what to say. Maybe not jump to conclusions?

denime
04-26-2012, 04:00 PM
Um...our side "of the argument". If you didn't understand that, I don't know what to say. Maybe not jump to conclusions?

If you say so,I apologizes for jumping to conclusion.

Ossington Mental Youth
04-26-2012, 04:51 PM
im not personally sold on or excited about yet another coaching change, let alone to Nicol. Yes i am aware of his pedigree. What happens when we've got some academy kids that have been playing 4-3-3 and are ready to step into the line up and we arent playing that formation? Why bother with the whole overhaul to work towards that at all? This is not my only reason for disliking a coaching change/nicol coming into power but a question i do have. just cant fucking win with this team, literally or figuratively. im sure ill change my mind if we start winning.

ExiledRed
04-26-2012, 08:15 PM
im not personally sold on or excited about yet another coaching change, let alone to Nicol. Yes i am aware of his pedigree. What happens when we've got some academy kids that have been playing 4-3-3 and are ready to step into the line up and we arent playing that formation? Why bother with the whole overhaul to work towards that at all? This is not my only reason for disliking a coaching change/nicol coming into power but a question i do have. just cant fucking win with this team, literally or figuratively. im sure ill change my mind if we start winning.

You see right here is a point im not sure is valid. What happens when said player gets loaned or sold to another club and they dont play 4-3-3? Aren't good players, players who can adapt to multiple systems and if not how come players get traded between clubs at all?

Is it really true that teaching 4-3-3 at the academy level goes out the window if the current coach doesnt employ that strategy?

Nicol plays 3-5-2 which is absolutely compatible with 4-3-3 philosophy anyway so I still have no idea why people are suggesting Nicol couldn't adapt for the first team.

Everybody who watched the revs take us apart in years one and two saw Twellman and Joseph and a bunch of ordinary MLS players playing a deadly 3-5-2 posession based game that fed the ball up, on the deck through a wide midfield, dominating posession and scoring beautiful goals. They used to terrify me.

denime
04-26-2012, 09:24 PM
You see right here is a point im not sure is valid. What happens when said player gets loaned or sold to another club and they dont play 4-3-3? Aren't good players, players who can adapt to multiple systems and if not how come players get traded between clubs at all?
Depend,see Bojan went from Barca to Roma,Ibrahimovic from Inter to Barca and it seems to me none of them shine even though they are good players.


Is it really true that teaching 4-3-3 at the academy level goes out the window if the current coach doesnt employ that strategy?
I would say it does,4-3-3 is best system for players development,in that formation you can have up to 5 creative players(according to T.Rongen at TFCA meeting),the idea is that players are interchangeable,you can bring 17/18 years old kid into a 1st team and he will know exactly what to and what to expect from his teammates.This can be very helpful for TFC,since MLS players turnaround is huge,if this works you can let go your best players to Europe after year or two with 1st team, and replace it easily with another upcoming young player who will adapst in no time.



Nicol plays 3-5-2 which is absolutely compatible with 4-3-3 philosophy anyway so I still have no idea why people are suggesting Nicol couldn't adapt for the first team.

Everybody who watched the revs take us apart in years one and two saw Twellman and Joseph and a bunch of ordinary MLS players playing a deadly 3-5-2 posession based game that fed the ball up, on the deck through a wide midfield, dominating posession and scoring beautiful goals. They used to terrify me.

I don't say Nicol would not be able to adapt,question is does he really needs or wants to adapt to 4-3-3 ?
4-3-3 can operate either as “direct” or indirect play. Converts easily from 4-3-3 to 4-5-1,converts to other shapes within 4-3-3 framework,converts easily to 3-4-3, 4-4-1-1, 4-4-2 if necessary.

And this is where I have problem with Winter,he is not converting to whatever shape is necessary to win a game,he is playing basic(youth) 4-3-3 or risky 3-4-3 and with great amount of players brain farts we are now 0-6.

If it's true that he got 4 more games to adapt his game approach/tactics I personal hope he will turn it around,wishing Winter to fail would be cheering against TFC and that's not the option for me and will never be.

ExiledRed
04-26-2012, 11:42 PM
Depend,see Bojan went from Barca to Roma,Ibrahimovic from Inter to Barca and it seems to me none of them shine even though they are good players.
I would say it does,4-3-3 is best system for players development,in that formation you can have up to 5 creative players(according to T.Rongen at TFCA meeting),the idea is that players are interchangeable,you can bring 17/18 years old kid into a 1st team and he will know exactly what to and what to expect from his teammates.This can be very helpful for TFC,since MLS players turnaround is huge,if this works you can let go your best players to Europe after year or two with 1st team, and replace it easily with another upcoming young player who will adapst in no time.




I don't say Nicol would not be able to adapt,question is does he really needs or wants to adapt to 4-3-3 ?
4-3-3 can operate either as “direct” or indirect play. Converts easily from 4-3-3 to 4-5-1,converts to other shapes within 4-3-3 framework,converts easily to 3-4-3, 4-4-1-1, 4-4-2 if necessary.

And this is where I have problem with Winter,he is not converting to whatever shape is necessary to win a game,he is playing basic(youth) 4-3-3 or risky 3-4-3 and with great amount of players brain farts we are now 0-6.

If it's true that he got 4 more games to adapt his game approach/tactics I personal hope he will turn it around,wishing Winter to fail would be cheering against TFC and that's not the option for me and will never be.

See Denime, you basically agree with me on practically everything except Nicol's suitability, and thats fine. I'll agree to differ on that one. Im not anti - 4-3-3 at all, if it can work for us, Im just convinced that Winter isnt competent enough to oversee its application to the first team. What were looking at on the field, isnt a work in progress but a mess.

If Thomas Rongen is capable of implementing the system and achieving results quickly I'm equally in favour. He certainly has the MLS experience behind him.

Blizzard
04-27-2012, 12:14 AM
If Thomas Rongen is capable of implementing the system and achieving results quickly I'm equally in favour. He certainly has the MLS experience behind him.

Rongen has coached a total of ten games in MLS since he got fired from DC in 2001. In 2005, he was the first coach of Chivas USA and was fired after ten games. Their record was 1-1-8. Mo did better than that in year one for TFC!

Ya he led DCU to the MLS Cup in 1999 but in 2000 and 2001, they were 8-6-18 and 8-2-16 (shortened season due to 9/11).

So ya, he has MLS experience but only 10 games worth in the last decade and to be frank, his record after 1999 sucks. One could argue that he record is still better than Winter's and while that may be so, if we are to replace Winter, I don't think I'd want Rongen to be the replacement.

Redcoe15
04-27-2012, 02:57 AM
Uh oh - Techno's gonna orgasm when he sees this. Get ready for more liberal splashings of NICOL - YEAH BITCHES!!! if these rumours gather pace... :D
From late October of last year:


I would literally eat a human baby for Nicol to manage this team . . . either into teh ground or to glory. . it wouldnt matter to me. . .

a human.. fucking.. .baby.

:smilielol5:

Technorgasm
04-27-2012, 06:57 AM
Dont even tease me with this crap. .
I've had my heart broken too many times. . .
PS. . anyone have an extra baby? feeling a bit peckish.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3089/3100317743_ab4ff76e96_o.jpg

STEVE.
FUCKING.
NICOL.
FOR
THE
WIN!

Ossington Mental Youth
04-27-2012, 07:42 AM
some good arguments for/against nicol.
next one would be, at what point do you replace the formation/nicol with the 4-3-3 our academy/team is trying to play?

ag futbol
04-27-2012, 08:29 AM
Rongen has coached a total of ten games in MLS since he got fired from DC in 2001. In 2005, he was the first coach of Chivas USA and was fired after ten games. Their record was 1-1-8. Mo did better than that in year one for TFC!

Ya he led DCU to the MLS Cup in 1999 but in 2000 and 2001, they were 8-6-18 and 8-2-16 (shortened season due to 9/11).

So ya, he has MLS experience but only 10 games worth in the last decade and to be frank, his record after 1999 sucks. One could argue that he record is still better than Winter's and while that may be so, if we are to replace Winter, I don't think I'd want Rongen to be the replacement.
Agreed, I don't have any interest in Rogan coaching this team.

Hitcho
04-27-2012, 07:25 PM
Dont even tease me with this crap. .
I've had my heart broken too many times. . .
PS. . anyone have an extra baby? feeling a bit peckish.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3089/3100317743_ab4ff76e96_o.jpg

STEVE.
FUCKING.
NICOL.
FOR
THE
WIN!

Haha - I warned you. Now we just need some BITCHES! thrown in there.

Hit me Techno. Hit me with your Bitches Stick. HIT ME!!! :D