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View Full Version : 'fire tom anselmi' tifo?



Abou Sky
04-22-2012, 10:17 PM
Would they let it stay up on the fence?

We need to make clear that he is the problem.

Burn him in effigy outside BMO?

'fire Tom Anselmi' chants?

Corporations don't like to piss off their customers, and TFC really does make an effort to make your experience positive.

prizby
04-22-2012, 10:36 PM
why fire Tom Anselmi?

All he did in 2010 in the end of the season is realize he had no bloody clue on who to hire, so he hired a consultant to advice him on what to do, he then rolled out the dough for the coaches, for 2 more designated players, and a $21 million dollar training facility and academy. He does not get involved directly into who signs with the team or what players the team goes after.

Would you have rather he act like a Jerry Jones or the late Al Davis or Daniel Snyder?

"Corporations don't like to piss off their customers, and TFC really does make an effort to make your experience positive."

You think TFC is bad, my pair of seasons costs less than a pair of platinum tickets to 1 Leafs game and look how they have done post lock-out

Kyle_121
04-22-2012, 10:50 PM
I think that

Making
Losing
$eem
Easy

Banner needs to be flown again.

I found a pic of it here - http://www.flickr.com/photos/lipsofcrimson/4552684267/

boban
04-22-2012, 11:32 PM
Fuck the fire Tom Anselmi tifo ...
I know some will scoff .. but seriously we need this ...

SELL THE TEAM tifo.

MLSE get the fuck out.

Cashcleaner
04-22-2012, 11:43 PM
why fire Tom Anselmi?

All he did in 2010 in the end of the season is realize he had no bloody clue on who to hire, so he hired a consultant to advice him on what to do, he then rolled out the dough for the coaches, for 2 more designated players, and a $21 million dollar training facility and academy. He does not get involved directly into who signs with the team or what players the team goes after.

Would you have rather he act like a Jerry Jones or the late Al Davis or Daniel Snyder?

"Corporations don't like to piss off their customers, and TFC really does make an effort to make your experience positive."

You think TFC is bad, my pair of seasons costs less than a pair of platinum tickets to 1 Leafs game and look how they have done post lock-out

You answered your own question.

RedRum
04-23-2012, 03:15 AM
Would they let it stay up on the fence?

We need to make clear that he is the problem.

Burn him in effigy outside BMO?

'fire Tom Anselmi' chants?

Corporations don't like to piss off their customers, and TFC really does make an effort to make your experience positive.

1. Maybe. It depends on his mood that day. Or that of his underlings. Or a near minimum wage security guard not getting the memo about what is allowed on said day. If that fails, we can claim the banner was smuggled in (like they do in Serbia). This will of course lessen the message.

2. He says he wants to win. Is that not good enough for you Sky?.

3. Not recommended. The FO love to cite fire code regulations. We should all just sit quietly and observe the rules. We have a team in Big League Sawker. Just be happy with that.

4. You don't ever want to direct a chant at Anselmi. He will swagger up to you with a gait that is a cross between George Jefferson and a penguin. Very menacing. He might even challenge you to direct verbal confrontation, or dare I say something that might even be construed as an invitation to fisticuffs. He may feel like he overstepped after that though, and invite you down to reel spawts and buy you lunch on his dime. He will reiterate how bad he wants to win, and what a bad decision signing JDG was. Sorry ensco I don't mean to imitate your fictional diary. As always, looking forward to the next installment.

5. "We keep screwing up, and you keep bringing your voices".

RedRum
04-23-2012, 03:22 AM
I think that

Making
Losing
$eem
Easy

Banner needs to be flown again.

I found a pic of it here - http://www.flickr.com/photos/lipsofcrimson/4552684267/

An even better pic is that of the 2 or 3 Leafs - sitting 50 feet away - laughing at it.

Flipityflu
04-23-2012, 05:14 AM
yes, that will change things on the pitch, because the formation and tactics are all Anselmi's fault.

Pookie
04-23-2012, 06:43 AM
Here's a song for that TIFO. I posted this in the Songs and Chants area but thought I would share for the registered users.


Just About Had Enough

When I see Ansel-mi
I want to bang my head
I've just about had enough
I've just about had enough

All the cash you took from me
And all the things you said
I've just about had enough
I've just about had enough

We slip and slide
And you have no clue
And I just have seen enough, so go f*ck ...

you do do do de do do do

Abou Sky
04-23-2012, 06:48 AM
yes, that will change things on the pitch, because the formation and tactics are all Anselmi's fault.

But can 6 managers all have been wrong? And 100+ players all sucked? (they didn't suck, they underperformed WITH US) Why do said players go to other teams and thrive?

I could be totally wrong, but what else explains it? Bad managers? <-Tommy boy still at fault. Lack of soccer knowledge <- Tom. Lack of scouting/spending/freedom of managers <- all Tom.

It is looking less and less like correlation and more and more like causality.

Other than Toronto having 'bad mojo' I don't see any other reasonable explanation.

ManUtd4ever
04-23-2012, 06:58 AM
Whether Anselmi is directly responsible for the abysmal product on the pitch or not is irrelevant at this point. Once the sale of MLSE officially transpires this summer Anselmi will be moving on anyway.

Abou Sky
04-23-2012, 07:15 AM
Whether Anselmi is directly responsible for the abysmal product on the pitch or not is irrelevant at this point. Once the sale of MLSE officially transpires this summer Anselmi will be moving on anyway.

Fingers and toes crossed!

Oldtimer
04-23-2012, 07:22 AM
One can only hope the new owners will do better than the Pen$ion Fund. The Jays aren't too bad this year.

Abou Sky
04-23-2012, 07:31 AM
Rogers is a forward looking company, I wish Ted Rogers was still alive because he didn't give a crap about quarterly numbers if he knew something would pay off years down the road (a personal business hero) he didn't even like baseball but bought the Jays because he knew it was a good business decision to get to the hearts of the people.

Hopefully that isn't all lost now he is gone.

I still like the idea of TFC being a fan owned team...

Gazza
04-23-2012, 07:34 AM
Apathy in the form of empty seats will do more for your cause than a tifo.

james
04-23-2012, 07:52 AM
Whether Anselmi is directly responsible for the abysmal product on the pitch or not is irrelevant at this point. Once the sale of MLSE officially transpires this summer Anselmi will be moving on anyway.

ya i was going to say didn't MLSE sell the teams to Rogers recently?? kind of makes this thread pointless.

__wowza
04-23-2012, 08:15 AM
i don't care anymore. i want to see a club statement.
i want to see a "we're sorry". if seattle can refund tickets after a blowout we can get a fucking apology.

T-boy
04-23-2012, 08:19 AM
Do not agree.

Anselmi did the right thing by hiring Klinsmann, and hired what we ALL thought was a good head coach. It just hasn't worked out for Winter.

Winter has to go, Anslemi can stay. I have no issue with Anselmi.

rocktml
04-23-2012, 08:20 AM
Agreed. that tifo I want!

SELL THE TEAM!
MLSE GET THE FUCK OUT!

Lets make it happen guys

Phil
04-23-2012, 08:32 AM
Anselmi just got a new position Jan 1 right?

Somehow I think that means more spin to us and less responsibility to the results and only looking at the bottom line.

mdc 77
04-23-2012, 08:39 AM
I don't think Anselmi has a new position, he is in the running to be Peddie's replacement but still in the same role.

T-boy
04-23-2012, 08:39 AM
Hindsight is a wonderful thing isn't it guys?

Didn't we ALL agree than getting Klinsmann in as a consultant was a fantastic idea?
Didn't wee ALL agree that signing Winter, De Klerk, and Mariner was a great idea?

These were both Anselmi's idea, and we all LOVED them at the time!

Anselmi hasn't done much wrong, if you ask me!

Winter just hasn't turned out to be the answer in the head coach department. All we need to do is fire Winter, and find a replacement. Everything else...the system, total football, Anselmi and his ideas, can all stay. It's as simple as that!

If ANY of us were in the position of Anselmi, we would have ALL done the same as him, and we all agree with him! Getting in Klinsmann was a great idea!

Anselmi just has to do the right thing again now, and fire Winter ASAP.

TFC Cityboy
04-23-2012, 08:43 AM
does anyone know what the senior management structure is at TFC? I don't mean the MLSE Board (that is on the club website), but who , aside from Anselme, is responsible for soccer ops within MLSE?

I understood at the time Klinnsmann given the remit to overhaul the whole club that this was to be revamped too so we have actual soccer guys running the show. It strikes me this is not the case and we are still an afterthought in MLSE's structure.

This club is a joke from the top down. How can you have Anselme in charge when he knows fuck all about the sport and has to hire a consultant to hire a coaching team.

Oldtimer
04-23-2012, 08:47 AM
... and to those who doubt Klinsmann's abilities, he has done well as the USMNT coach. Also, he brought us Frings, who despite his terrible gaffe last game, is easily one of the top midfielders in MLS.

What we don't know is who he recommended for the positions. It may be that Aron was his #10 choice, but ML$E thought the words "Total Football" would sound good.

Fort York Redcoat
04-23-2012, 08:52 AM
Would they let it stay up on the fence?



No they would not. Anti Mo banners were taken in the past. I'm pretty sure this would be the same. It's about tone, though. If it was a simple "Anselmi Out!" it may go unnoticed.


I think that

Making
Losing
$eem
Easy

Banner needs to be flown again.

I found a pic of it here - http://www.flickr.com/photos/lipsofcrimson/4552684267/

Not our banner.


Here's a song for that TIFO. I posted this in the Songs and Chants area but thought I would share for the registered users.


Just About Had Enough

When I see Ansel-mi
I want to bang my head
I've just about had enough
I've just about had enough

All the cash you took from me
And all the things you said
I've just about had enough
I've just about had enough

We slip and slide
And you have no clue
And I just have seen enough, so go f*ck ...

you do do do de do do do


This is the most doable but not many people like to sing these days.

Chris Wren
04-23-2012, 08:54 AM
I know it's easy to make up slogans using MLSE (sorry I forgot a dollar sign is supposed to be the S) but the fact is a team makes more money winning. MLSE has lost millions by not having any of their teams make the playoffs. They have hired GM's who are/were considered the top in their field. Anyone who thinks Anselmi has a say in personnel with the Leafs or Raptors is delusional, Burke or Colangello wouldn't work here under those conditions. Why would things be different with TFC? They took a gamble hiring Winter, but most here seemed happy with the direction the team was heading. Winter must be given the season and realistically Anselmi isn't going anywhere. The mess we're in is bad, but more changes and chaos is the last thing TFC needs. For the remainder of the season the current group is who has to get it done. It's ugly, and I'm really no Anselmi fan, but I don't see anti-Anselmi banners working or helping. The investment in a youth academy shouldn't be overlooked.

Suds
04-23-2012, 09:05 AM
When all the people hired don't work out at some point you need to look at the people doing the hiring.

When is MLSE going to take a hard look at the people doing the hiring?

Abou Sky
04-23-2012, 09:05 AM
I know it's easy to make up slogans using MLSE (sorry I forgot a dollar sign is supposed to be the S) but the fact is a team makes more money winning. MLSE has lost millions by not having any of their teams make the playoffs. They have hired GM's who are/were considered the top in their field. Anyone who thinks Anselmi has a say in personnel with the Leafs or Raptors is delusional, Burke or Colangello wouldn't work here under those conditions. Why would things be different with TFC? They took a gamble hiring Winter, but most here seemed happy with the direction the team was heading. Winter must be given the season and realistically Anselmi isn't going anywhere. The mess we're in is bad, but more changes and chaos is the last thing TFC needs. For the remainder of the season the current group is who has to get it done. It's ugly, and I'm really no Anselmi fan, but I don't see anti-Anselmi banners working or helping. The investment in a youth academy shouldn't be overlooked.

Chris, I am not saying MLSE or Anselmi don't WANT to win, they obviously DO WANT TO WIN.

They don't know how though.

I am not in any way suggesting that they are 'throwing the playoffs away to save money' we have the third highest payroll in MLS and including all the infrastructure maybe the most total money spent. (No real idea, correct me if wrong)

Playoffs = LOTS OF MONEY

I just don't think that Anselmi is the person to take us there.

As I said, we have gone through 6 managers, 100s of players, a few 'plans' and 'visions', consultants and possibly a psychic or two.

All have come and gone, while MLSE and Anselmi have not.

I could be TOTALLY wrong, but it seems to me it is not just correlation but causality.

I had to explain to my son why we aren't going to the Liverpool game, he is SEVEN going on eight. You know what he said? "Why don't they fire the guys that are going to get our players hurt?"

From the mouths of babes...

Fort York Redcoat
04-23-2012, 09:22 AM
I had to explain to my son why we aren't going to the Liverpool game, he is SEVEN going on eight. You know what he said? "Why don't they fire the guys that are going to get our players hurt?"

From the mouths of babes...

A LEGEND at SEVEN. Well said.

TFC Cityboy
04-23-2012, 09:43 AM
this is an excellent article about the structural problems at TFC
http://www.goal.com/en-ca/news/4175/major-league-soccer/2012/04/23/3055365/monday-mls-breakdown-familiar-problems-send-toronto-fc

Chris Wren
04-23-2012, 10:11 AM
I said I don't like Anselmi, but realistically he isn't going anywhere and I don't hold him individually responsible for all of MLSE's losing. I wish I had the answer, but I don't. If you think an anti-Anselmi banner is the first step in TFC's road to glory then go for it. We're all angry, I'm sure many will agree with you. Personally, I'm speaking with my wallet by not buying anything at BMO and if we don't turn it around I'm not renewing my tickets. Thinking TFC wouldn't jump at an opportunity to play Liverpool, regardless of when the game happens, is just being naive and it makes sense a 7 year old would feel that way.

Abou Sky
04-23-2012, 10:22 AM
I said I don't like Anselmi, but realistically he isn't going anywhere and I don't hold him individually responsible for all of MLSE's losing. I wish I had the answer, but I don't. If you think an anti-Anselmi banner is the first step in TFC's road to glory then go for it. We're all angry, I'm sure many will agree with you. Personally, I'm speaking with my wallet by not buying anything at BMO and if we don't turn it around I'm not renewing my tickets. Thinking TFC wouldn't jump at an opportunity to play Liverpool, regardless of when the game happens, is just being naive and it makes sense a 7 year old would feel that way.

Guess you didn't hear Kocic's interview... he was NOT impressed at the timing at all, caught himself and then 'towed the line'

BayernTFC
04-23-2012, 10:24 AM
this is an excellent article about the structural problems at TFC
http://www.goal.com/en-ca/news/4175/major-league-soccer/2012/04/23/3055365/monday-mls-breakdown-familiar-problems-send-toronto-fc

That is indeed an excellent article. It just might be the best analysis of the situation facing TFC that I've read. Kyle McCarthy effectively argues that multiple fundamental issues are at play and the silver bullet approach, or continued attempt to find a quick fix, will keep TFC treading water and is likely to do more harm. Thanks for the heads up TFC Cityboy.:thumbsup:

Abou Sky
04-23-2012, 10:41 AM
I said I don't like Anselmi, but realistically he isn't going anywhere and I don't hold him individually responsible for all of MLSE's losing. I wish I had the answer, but I don't. If you think an anti-Anselmi banner is the first step in TFC's road to glory then go for it. We're all angry, I'm sure many will agree with you. Personally, I'm speaking with my wallet by not buying anything at BMO and if we don't turn it around I'm not renewing my tickets. Thinking TFC wouldn't jump at an opportunity to play Liverpool, regardless of when the game happens, is just being naive and it makes sense a 7 year old would feel that way.

Also Chris, I am with you on no more concessions.

The question is this: What do you think the ROOT problem is?

Like I said, I am pretty new to TFC so maybe I am missing something BUT it seems that MLSE and Tom Anselmi are the common denominators. MLSE is just an owner, Anselmi oversees TFC.

If you don't think that upper management has anything to do with a companies success I can point to a few dozen examples to prove you wrong:

Steve Jobs
Warren Buffet
Bill Gates
Lee Iacoca (sp?)
Gord Nixon
Dan Hesse

If you want some more I can come up with them, but leadership matters!

MLSE is in the business of WINNING, make NO MISTAKE about that. Winning = $$$ If you had the Raptors as league champs you would have kids in Florida sporting raptors jerseys, if the leafs won the cup they could charge $5000/ticket for greens for game 7 and get it. If TFC won the MLS cup they would sell out most games and likely sell 18k+ seasons.

Just because a company turns a profit does NOT mean it is being run well, if you are the only guy selling milk in Toronto you are going to do well, no matter how poorly you manage your business or marketing, look at banks, they basically tell you to fuck off every time you call them but you have no choice. Same goes for Leafs & TFC, you want hockey in Toronto, you get the Leafs. Not a 'necessity' but I would bet that the only reason we don't have a pro team in Hamilton/KW/Guelph is because of the Leafs and MLSE, they know that if a second team were allowed in the GTA, and that team started to win, they would actually LOSE FANS. Don't think it can't happen, remember the Ballard years? And there wasn't even anywhere to flock to.

I hope that Bell/Rogers shake things up and realize that winning matters and affects the bottom line.

prizby
04-23-2012, 10:46 AM
Guess you didn't hear Kocic's interview... he was NOT impressed at the timing at all, caught himself and then 'towed the line'

i think when he said organization he meant the organization of tactics on the field

Abou Sky
04-23-2012, 10:56 AM
i think when he said organization he meant the organization of tactics on the field

Then why would he mention the timing of the Liverpool match being bad and that they have a big empty hole in the middle of the season where it could have been?

Abou Sky
04-23-2012, 10:59 AM
ANYWAY...

Never made a TIFO, anyone into making an "Anselmi Out" TIFO with me?

I think as others said that would be most likely to be acceptable and not get torn down.

I honestly don't know where to start with this. Is there a 'how to' guide buried somewhere in the site?

T-boy
04-23-2012, 11:19 AM
Your focus is all misdirected guys! We need Winter out, not Anselmi! If you get shot of Anselmi, Winter is still going to be overseeing the crappy tactics he's had so far this season! I don't believe Anselmi is doing anything directly to effect the results on the field!

Doing anything to protect Anselmi, IMO, is totally pointless!

Furtado91
04-23-2012, 11:27 AM
Your focus is all misdirected guys! We need Winter out, not Anselmi! If you get shot of Anselmi, Winter is still going to be overseeing the crappy tactics he's had so far this season! I don't believe Anselmi is doing anything directly to effect the results on the field!

Doing anything to protect Anselmi, IMO, is totally pointless!

I understand your point of view. But we have switched Coaches plenty of times, We have even gotten almost a brand new team and still no success. Do you argue that we have to keep playing that game until we get a match? We have tried the common issues, Players and coaches. If there's still no result why shouldn't we turn to upper management? hes the one that oversees everything. if hes not to blame who do we blame? Its obvious someone had to say Oh lets get Aron Winter in. Is it not the choice of Anselmi at the end of the day to say yes or no? if its his consultants that choosing these coaches, get rid of them, but get rid of the guy who hired the consultants too, otherwise he may hire another bunch of people and repeat the same mistakes for another 5 years of failure.

im not directing 100% of the blame on Anselmi, but if your going to get rid of Winter, get rid of Anselmi and his consultants as well. start fresh from the upper management.

Pookie
04-23-2012, 11:35 AM
Anyone who thinks Anselmi has a say in personnel with the Leafs or Raptors is delusional, Burke or Colangello wouldn't work here under those conditions. Why would things be different with TFC?

Perhaps a little history is in order. When Burke was hired, the former organizational structure was that Anselmi and Richard Peddie were the ones that the previous GM reported to. If the GM wanted a budget approved, it would go through Anselmi and Peddie before it went to the Board. Burke indicated that if he was to come here, he wanted complete autonomy. The organizational structure was changed in that Burke was given President and GM responsibilities and with it a direct line into the Board. Anselmi and Peddie were no longer part of the reporting structure and decision making process for the hockey team. This removed all that "sign Domi" because I said so crap.

While the Leafs are still a mess, it is clear who is in charge of that mess.

That was the same scenario with the Raptors.

TFC Management do not enjoy this same direct line to the Board. Anselmi sits in the chair that Winter/Mariner report to. He reports to the Board.

So, to answer your question as why one would think Anselmi has a say with TFC decisions, the answer is simply because he has a history of involvement and the org chat is set up that way.

phonzo
04-23-2012, 11:40 AM
Just one comment for those that say sell the team - i ask to whom?

ForeverTFC
04-23-2012, 11:42 AM
Whether Anselmi is directly responsible for the abysmal product on the pitch or not is irrelevant at this point. Once the sale of MLSE officially transpires this summer Anselmi will be moving on anyway.

It's common knowledge that Peddie has been advocating for Anselmi to take over his position. Not sure how cut and dry this is. He is a MLSE man through and through.

T-boy
04-23-2012, 11:43 AM
I understand your point of view. But we have switched Coaches plenty of times, We have even gotten almost a brand new team and still no success. Do you argue that we have to keep playing that game until we get a match? We have tried the common issues, Players and coaches. If there's still no result why shouldn't we turn to upper management? hes the one that oversees everything. if hes not to blame who do we blame? Its obvious someone had to say Oh lets get Aron Winter in. Is it not the choice of Anselmi at the end of the day to say yes or no? if its his consultants that choosing these coaches, get rid of them, but get rid of the guy who hired the consultants too, otherwise he may hire another bunch of people and repeat the same mistakes for another 5 years of failure.

im not directing 100% of the blame on Anselmi, but if your going to get rid of Winter, get rid of Anselmi and his consultants as well. start fresh from the upper management.

As I've just written in the Winter thread - most world football teams go through many managers before they find a succesful one. It's just part of the game of football! However, most teams keep their GM/owners for the lifetime of their club. TFC many need to g through a couple more managers yet util they find the right now, that's just the way it works in football!

We shouldn't be scared of firing managers and getting a new one. And sometimes good managers just aren't the rigth fit. Preki was a good manager elsewhere, but he just didn't fit in Toronto. Look at John Carver and how much success he's had this season at Newcastle! He mustbe one of the hottest coaches around right now! yet he wasn't succesfull as head coach here! That isn't to say his hiring here was bad, because clearly he's a fantastic football coach!

Abou Sky
04-23-2012, 11:47 AM
Your focus is all misdirected guys! We need Winter out, not Anselmi! If you get shot of Anselmi, Winter is still going to be overseeing the crappy tactics he's had so far this season! I don't believe Anselmi is doing anything directly to effect the results on the field!

Doing anything to protect Anselmi, IMO, is totally pointless!

I would hazard a guess that if Anselmi goes, so does Winter (and at least 1/3 of the team) we start fresh (again...... fuck!) but with a soccer specific president of the club.

They could spend OODLES of money on a president and have it be worth it. $10m? $20m? It would pay off very well if they start packing the stands and winning hardware.

Abou Sky
04-23-2012, 11:50 AM
Just one comment for those that say sell the team - i ask to whom?

To us, fan owned team.

T-boy
04-23-2012, 11:50 AM
I would hazard a guess that if Anselmi goes, so does Winter (and at least 1/3 of the team) we start fresh (again...... fuck!) but with a soccer specific president of the club.

They could spend OODLES of money on a president and have it be worth it. $10m? $20m? It would pay off very well if they start packing the stands and winning hardware.

I still say that the current squad of players we have are decent. And I think most you all agree too? We don't NEED to rebuild and start again. We've got a decent set of players - Kocic, Frei, Ecks, Morgan, Cann, Frings, Stinson, Plata, Lambe, Koevs, Johnson - we ALL agree that these are good enough players right?

So why start over again? We just need to find a new coach who can get these players winning! There's no need to start all over again right now!

Abou Sky
04-23-2012, 11:56 AM
As I've just written in the Winter thread - most world football teams go through many managers before they find a succesful one. It's just part of the game of football! However, most teams keep their GM/owners for the lifetime of their club. TFC many need to g through a couple more managers yet util they find the right now, that's just the way it works in football!

We shouldn't be scared of firing managers and getting a new one. And sometimes good managers just aren't the rigth fit. Preki was a good manager elsewhere, but he just didn't fit in Toronto. Look at John Carver and how much success he's had this season at Newcastle! He mustbe one of the hottest coaches around right now! yet he wasn't succesfull as head coach here! That isn't to say his hiring here was bad, because clearly he's a fantastic football coach!

You are making my point for me! The issue isn't a lack of talent, a good manager should be a good manager just about anywhere.

Please name for me a football club who has:

Gone through a manager a year
Turned over the entire team a few times over in 5 years
Had many of those Mangers and players be successful elsewhere (either before or after)
and THEN find a Manager who 'gels' the team and goes on to win championships WITHOUT changing the head office at the same time they changed the manager.

I am not trying to be a jerk, I just don't think it is plausible that we have had that many bad matches.

ginkster88
04-23-2012, 12:03 PM
Fan owned team is easily the worst idea I've ever heard.

ag futbol
04-23-2012, 12:09 PM
Let's not forget that supposedly uncle Tom extended Mo Johnston's contract two months before the massacre in NY to end our playoff hopes. If it wasn't for that act of idiocy, Johnston would have been shown the door right then, but since somebody at the Sr. level made a blatantly bad decisions, it required another year of bumbling as matter of CYA before we sent that P.O.S. home.

This isn't a one or the other argument, Anselmi needs to go and Winter needs to go as well.

jaxul
04-23-2012, 12:42 PM
I will say it until I am blue in the face: we need an individual owner who is passionate about football! A bottom-line oriented corporation will never work in this city.

TFC Cityboy
04-23-2012, 12:43 PM
Fan owned team is easily the worst idea I've ever heard.

imagine the team selection thread every friday!
:)

ginkster88
04-23-2012, 01:37 PM
imagine the team selection thread every friday!
:)

Yes, and it's been going so well (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ebbsfleet_United_F.C.#MyFootballClub_takeover) for those other guys who tried it :D

Edit: there's a link in there, but the new site seems to hide them pretty well.

Stryker
04-23-2012, 01:41 PM
I hate Anselmi and I think he's an arrogant gas bag.
I also don't think he's in any way shape or form responsible for the current state of the team as far as on field performance goes.
The fact that the home numbers have been shit however is another story.

Pookie
04-23-2012, 01:44 PM
^ As President of the Leafs, is Brian Burke ultimately accountable for performance?

Why would our "President" then not be accountable for performance of the team?

Stryker
04-23-2012, 01:46 PM
Biggest reason being that Burke is the one pulling the trigger on every trade made.
Anselmi isn't........ anymore.

Pookie
04-23-2012, 01:49 PM
^ so next season comes and goes and there are no playoffs for the Leafs... Burke lets Nonis take over the GM duties, you are cool with him staying on a President?

Stryker
04-23-2012, 01:53 PM
^ so next season comes and goes and there are no playoffs for the Leafs... Burke lets Nonis take over the GM duties, you are cool with him staying on a President?
I never said ethier Burke or Anselmi deserved to keep their jobs. I merely pointed out that Dickhead Tom isn't directly responsible for the crap play we've been seeing of late. He (suposedly) no longer has any influence on players or tactics.

Pookie
04-23-2012, 01:57 PM
But where do you get that he doesn't have any influence on players or tactics? Did Mariner have free reign to sign our DPs? What if he wanted to buy out JDG, who approves that?

Stryker
04-23-2012, 02:05 PM
But where do you get that he doesn't have any influence on players or tactics? Did Mariner have free reign to sign our DPs? What if he wanted to buy out JDG, who approves that?


I also don't think he's in any way shape or form responsible for the current state of the team...

I can't prove it one way or another nor can you. It's merely a speculative opinion.

69Chevy396
04-23-2012, 02:06 PM
Fan owned team is easily the worst idea I've ever heard.

Really? Odd that you would say that since a large number of world class clubs are owned precisely this way.

69Chevy396
04-23-2012, 02:08 PM
I say sell the team to the players on the Maple Leafs. It will give them something to do each spring through fall.

ginkster88
04-23-2012, 02:27 PM
Really? Odd that you would say that since a large number of world class clubs are owned precisely this way.

If you'd like to go back to the 19th century ago and start an athletic club with a soccer team, by all means go ahead.

Founding a club that has a team that eventually becomes professional and then ultimately "world class" is not the same thing as getting a group of wildly disparate and self-motivated people together to buy an existing franchise, in 2012 dollars and 2012 operating costs in a league where not a lot of teams make money and 7-figure sums must be spent on designated players with no other collective ties than their minute ownership of said franchise.

Pookie
04-23-2012, 02:38 PM
I can't prove it one way or another nor can you. It's merely a speculative opinion.

Agreed. However, one thing that isn't speculative opinion is our record of futility over multiple years with multiple coaches and mulitple players.

So, if the "President" has no impact on the style of play (tactics), and decisions made by his managers, then what is the point of having him? Clearly, we need help.

If the "President" has an impact through the decision of who to hire and how much freedom they give to operate, then clearly it isn't working. He hasn't been able to make an impactful decision on delegation of reponsibility since he has been here. That "President" should be replaced.

If the "President" is in fact meddling in the day to day operations then clearly, that isn't working either and needs to end.


Outside of profits generated, I'm not sure how anyone can reach the conclusion that he should keep his job as leader of this football club. Certainly, within the MLSE empire there is a place for him but not anywhere close to influencing the results of this team.

sarsippius
04-23-2012, 02:43 PM
The Players. The Organizational structure. The lack of Defence. The lack of Midfield. We're unlucky. Injury. Money. No grass. Coach A, compared to B, C, D, E or F. No proper practice facility. Some egos are too big. There's no heart. The System. The implementation of the System. The tactics in game. The lack of tactics in game. Supporters don't stop buying beer, so the impact isn't felt. The Supporters Kit is considered "M'eh" by some. Too many bugs at the field.

I've heard each one of these since inception. I don't notice consistency per se, but notice these excuses / reasons seem timely.

I am likely simplifying this - as I don't know what Anselmi's role is in reality (I can speculate based on what I hear, his title and when I've spoken with him). I know he's likely not wanting to lose, but as far as I can tell, outside of Paul B. (who clearly has nothing to do with the club on the field, imo), he's the only consistent factor in a losing franchise.

If this is the only consistent element, I'd suggest at least putting him under strong scrutiny and asking more poignant questions that test whether he is making an impact. Some may jump to firing - I don't know that this is the path just yet - but I would prefer him at least under a spot light with the understanding that this could happen.

Flipityflu
04-23-2012, 02:54 PM
But can 6 managers all have been wrong? And 100+ players all sucked? (they didn't suck, they underperformed WITH US) Why do said players go to other teams and thrive?

I could be totally wrong, but what else explains it? Bad managers? <-Tommy boy still at fault. Lack of soccer knowledge <- Tom. Lack of scouting/spending/freedom of managers <- all Tom.

It is looking less and less like correlation and more and more like causality.

Other than Toronto having 'bad mojo' I don't see any other reasonable explanation.

well, 5 of those managers were under the control of Mo Johnston...i don't think we need to further expand on that. the sixth manager has had a season and a half, and quite frankly, we are moving backwards in terms of results.

football descisions are NOT made by Anselmi, and the fact he is now the 'target' of your wrath just smells of desperation for blame. you are desperate for one simple reason....the obvious course of action is to fire the manager, and that is percieved as a 'back to square 1' mentality.

firing Anselmi will do nothing for TFC.

Abou Sky
04-23-2012, 02:57 PM
I hate Anselmi and I think he's an arrogant gas bag.
I also don't think he's in any way shape or form responsible for the current state of the team as far as on field performance goes.
The fact that the home numbers have been shit however is another story.

Stryker, it isn't that Anselmi made a decision last week that is the reason we are losing.

These are 'ripple effect' type decisions. I can't possibly imagine Winter not wanting to buy out JDG, who would have said no?

That means we are short $450k of cap space. (I would personally rather get 2-3 good players with that money than a DP but that is another argument)

The way I see is this:

Anselmi brought in Winter but didn't give him all the tools he needed to win. Winter then tries to win with a half empty toolbox, which doesn't work.

Maybe Winter should go, maybe he shouldn't, I really don't know.

What I am pretty damn sure about is that Anselmi MUST go.

Abou Sky
04-23-2012, 02:59 PM
If you'd like to go back to the 19th century ago and start an athletic club with a soccer team, by all means go ahead.

Founding a club that has a team that eventually becomes professional and then ultimately "world class" is not the same thing as getting a group of wildly disparate and self-motivated people together to buy an existing franchise, in 2012 dollars and 2012 operating costs in a league where not a lot of teams make money and 7-figure sums must be spent on designated players with no other collective ties than their minute ownership of said franchise.

Three words:

Green Bay Packers

'nuff said.

ginkster88
04-23-2012, 03:05 PM
Three words:

Green Bay Packers

'nuff said.


Founded 1918, joined the NFL in '21. Soccer-wise, very few were created after 1900.

Again, there is no comparison between 1898-1920 and 2012.

Zero similarity.

Abou Sky
04-23-2012, 03:08 PM
firing Anselmi will do nothing for TFC.

So what will? 7 is a lucky number, maybe coach #7 will work.

Maybe we need a ritual sacrifice before every game.

Was BMO field built on a cursed Indian Burial Ground?

I would say AT LEAST 90% of people on here know more about soccer and TFC than I do. But I don't see anything else that is common in all this failure.

I would love to see Saputo come and buy up TFC and own two franchises, maybe Galon Weston Jr. is super into soccer and wants to buy TFC, who knows, there aren't really plenty of billionaires around who can cough up the $150m or so that TFC is likely worth ($100m for next franchise says MLS) so LIKELY MLSE will own them for the foreseeable future OR they start getting 5k fans out to each game, accrue a bunch of debt and get sold on the cheap to someone who cares.

Stryker
04-23-2012, 03:21 PM
I don't necessarily disagree with anyone who has disagreed with me in this thread. I would have bet with anyone who was willing that JDG would be gone in this offseason.
I think the one thing we can all agree upon is that whomever made the call that he NOT be bought out, be it Anselmi, Winter, Mariner or some boardroom bean counter... well they fucked up bigtime.

Kooper
04-23-2012, 03:23 PM
firing Anselmi will do nothing for TFC.

The only consistent thing between season 1 and today is Tom. The various comments that he has no impact with what happens on the field is nonsense. He controls the pruse strings so directly or indirectly he has control over the decisions that lead to the hiring, firing and releasing of players, coaches and backroom staff. He isn't picking the team on game day but his decisions are helping to pick the players.

I don't doubt his commitment to winning. He is a sports guy who would love nothing more than to see the teams he works for (and likely supports) win. I also don't doubt his commitment to his own best interest. He wants to be the President of 3 championship teams. Who in his place wouldn't want to? No doubt his salary is tied to overall revenue and profits so if the Raptors, TFC and the Leafs were to have long cup runs there would be increased revenue from food, ticket sales, jerseys... which would line his pocket.

My belief is that Tom and his head office team just don't know how to recognize managment talent. They have consistently hired coaches, managers and back room staff who can't seem to identify what they need to win on all their three professional teams. They have no long term vision.

Kooper
04-23-2012, 03:29 PM
I don't necessarily disagree with anyone who has disagreed with me in this thread. I would have bet with anyone who was willing that JDG would be gone in this offseason.
I think the one thing we can all agree upon is that whomever made the call that he NOT be bought out, be it Anselmi, Winter, Mariner or some boardroom bean counter... well they fucked up bigtime.

At this point in the season if they have indeed given up why bother buying out his contract? If they do the message boards will erupt with people asking "Who do we sign now that we have 450K of cap space free". They will have to pay JDG and use the money 'saved' to buy other players. If they keep him they can pay us lipservice (free) about keeping one of Canada's top players and only pay his salary once.

If they do cut him lose or trade him and eat a large portion of his salary then TFC honestly thinks they can make the playoffs. If they keep him and he doesn't play more then you know that they are just treading water until next season and another o5 year plan.

ag futbol
04-23-2012, 03:38 PM
"Football" decisions are not controlled by Tom, but indirectly the board of directors influence the process through use of budgetary expenditures and also through monitoring performance. These guys have been majorly negligent / asleep at the wheel. A smart organization could have figured out Mo needed to be fired after two years. An slow one could have figured that out after three. We blew through all those with reckless abandon despite the signs being incredibly clear along the way that he had no idea what he was doing. There is a lot of off the field stuff that Sr. executives / operational staff can control.

In a Leafs sense, let me give you an extreme example that I read somewhere (someone paste a source if they have it): Leafs scout finds a great prospect in Sweden, considered one of the best players not in the NHL, thinks he'd help the organization. Coach likes it, GM likes it, but they need $2M dollars to buy-out his contract from his existing club. They take it to the B.O.D. to approve and the response from one of the resident bean-counters is: "we're not paying $2M for some random asshole from Sweden". I can't remember who that player was in the end, but I'm pretty sure the story went that it was Henrik Zetterberg.

Torontotonto
04-23-2012, 06:39 PM
Just one comment for those that say sell the team - i ask to whom?

I'm not someone who said sell the team, but TFC is mere pocket change in the MLSE structure.
There could be lot's of buyers out there for this club, but I think MLSE would be real reluctant to sell not based on ticket prices, but the concessions and mechandise alone.
I personally would have no problem if they put it up for sale, it's been six years of corporate mis-management of our club.

Hell I would love to see them sell the Leafs too.

Kooper
04-23-2012, 06:51 PM
I'm not someone who said sell the team, but TFC is mere pocket change in the MLSE structure.
There could be lot's of buyers out there for this club, but I think MLSE would be real reluctant to sell not based on ticket prices, but the concessions and mechandise alone.
I personally would have no problem if they put it up for sale, it's been six years of corporate mis-management of our club.

Hell I would love to see them sell the Leafs too.

If Rogers and Bell hadn't bought MLSE I might agree with you that there are a couple of buyers out there for the team but now that they are (or will be) MLSE then there are few owners. Forbes has Toronto FC valued at 44 million (http://www.forbes.com/2008/09/09/mls-soccer-beckham-biz-sports-cz_kb_0909mlsvalues_slide_3.html?thisSpeed=15000) and that is a lot of money for a team with angry fans and in a league where "few teams make money'. (http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Daily/Issues/2011/11/21/Leagues-and-Governing-Bodies/MLS.aspx) The owner needs to be rich enough to absorb some serious losses if the league starts to fail or attendance continues to fall.

The MLSE deal made sense for Bell and Rogers for 2 reasons. 1. The Leafs. 2. the fact that even if the Raptors and TFC have poor attendance they can still make money from advertizing on their TV chanels as they broadcast the games without having to pay for broadcast rights.

Beach_Red
04-23-2012, 07:43 PM
All this talk of ownership and senior management (and I'm guilty of it) is such long-term stuff and really, the long-term doesn't matter. The only thing we need to say is WIN NOW.

Sure, yeah, academy, system, next year, the future, blah, blah, blah. I grew up in Montreal an Expos fan and we were always about next year, we were always about being a good young team with a future and when that future finally came, when everything finally came together - there was a fucking work stoppage and the season was cancelled, no World Series. And then no future.

The long-term can take care of itself, we need to win now.

boban
04-23-2012, 08:18 PM
ya i was going to say didn't MLSE sell the teams to Rogers recently?? kind of makes this thread pointless.

Nope. Teacher's Pension is selling their share in MLSE. MLSE live and breathes and continues to be the owner.
Nothing will change. Only corporate musical chairs.

Flipityflu
04-23-2012, 08:43 PM
i guess i just see things differently. if you think getting rid of somebody who seems to be more of a final stamp guy than the people making the descisions on the pitch, so be it. as far a i'm concerned, if you play a 3 man defense against speedy attackers who bypass the midfield for 3/4's of a match before really altering something, you aren't helping.

this team is not useless..its just being managed incorrectly. we need somebody who can get the best out of the squad instead of trying to hammer them into the wrongs shaped holes.

Abou Sky
04-23-2012, 09:17 PM
^ mentioned before, not either/or, BOTH Winter and Anselmi need to go.

Abou Sky
04-23-2012, 09:45 PM
Will anyone with experience help me make this tifo???

C.Ronaldo
04-24-2012, 11:06 AM
i vote for SELL THE TEAM!!!!!

its poll time!

C.Ronaldo
04-24-2012, 11:08 AM
shedding a tear....

Gringo Starr
04-24-2012, 12:32 PM
Not sure a Tifo would change much but I understand the sentiment and wouldn't mind seeing it unfurled at BMO. A few simple chants would be cool too like everyone faces the MLSE box and chants "its all your fault, its all your fault...." or maybe "You can stick your friendly tickets, you can stick your friendly tickets, you can stick your friendly tickets up your ass"

james
04-24-2012, 09:32 PM
i don't care anymore. i want to see a club statement.
i want to see a "we're sorry". if seattle can refund tickets after a blowout we can get a fucking apology.

Seattle season ticket holder fans got free tickets to games like Chelsea and refund for a blow out game, while we pay $115 and up just to see Real Madrid and ticket increases for 5 years of filled with many blowouts and continues awful performance. Wow something just seems wrong here!:facepalm:

prizby
04-24-2012, 09:42 PM
^you forgot the free home opener you received in year 5 :) as a sorry, we fucked up

Just One Man
04-24-2012, 10:11 PM
I think that

Making
Losing
$eem
Easy

Banner needs to be flown again.

I found a pic of it here - http://www.flickr.com/photos/lipsofcrimson/4552684267/

This is my favourite. Anselmi is a corporate puppet. No sense going after him.

Kooper
04-25-2012, 08:21 AM
What about we make this a TIFO.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-SBfy1LHlZkY/Th5FpeHke-I/AAAAAAAAAPI/xpgdm4IGLZk/s1600/head_up_your_ass.jpg
MLSE OWNERSHIP

Dave67
04-25-2012, 07:17 PM
Total Footbollocks. That's the one I'd like to see.

james
04-26-2012, 10:05 AM
http://www.strangecosmos.com/images/content/137360.jpg

But saying something in English!!!:scarf:

james
04-26-2012, 10:10 AM
^you forgot the free home opener you received in year 5 :) as a sorry, we fucked up

oh right that one. Was it MLS added an extra game to the season that year??but MLSE knew they couldn't increase tickets anymore after 5 years of shit performance, but they sure weren't going to decrease all ticket prices, so they just said it was a "free game". But cost no less then the season 4, which was an increase from season 3 and 2!

Richard
04-26-2012, 03:22 PM
i vote for SELL THE TEAM!!!!!

its poll time!

+1:iagree:

Kooper
04-30-2012, 12:24 PM
This was in today's Fiver. Seemed appropriate given the results.

"20 euros is what your mother costs" a Rayo Vallecano banner takes aim at the club's decision to force even season-ticket holders to pay for their seats at Saturday night's game at home to Barcelona. Which they lost 7-0.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/apr/30/the-fiver-england-roy-hodgson-manchester-derby