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View Full Version : Before and after DeRo: Intersting stats (pre-post 37 TFC games)



asterix606
04-15-2012, 01:18 PM
DeRo last 37 regular season MLS games with TFC

12W 15L 10T = 46 points GF 44 GA 55 = -11


Since DeRo traded, past 37 TFC MLS regular season games

5W 17L 15T = 30 points GF 34 GA 65 = -31


As a season ticket holder I'v had enough of MLSE and their terrible decision making (or lack of them). We traded a great player, DeRo, who ended up winning the 2011 MVP award!

In exchange we recieved Tony Tchani, Danleigh Borman and a First Round pick in the 2012 MLS SuperDraft. These guys are not even in Toronto anymore! For good reasons, they suck!

But, we kept JDG on our payroll at 2M$ a season!


Heads should be rolling after such idiotic team management! The results speak for themselves!

Roogsy
04-15-2012, 01:19 PM
Roogsy has a new account! LOL!

Beach_Red
04-15-2012, 01:21 PM
Roogsy has a new account! LOL!

Say this in Russell Peters' voice: "Somebody is gonna get a banned."

Pookie
04-15-2012, 01:32 PM
What a refreshing topic. while we are all having a laugh, can we list the MLS Playoff games under both scenarios? Then perhaps a CCL record comparison?

either or, threads like these always end well. With compassion and understanding for all sides of the debate.

Fort York Redcoat
04-15-2012, 01:38 PM
What a refreshing topic. while we are all having a laugh, can we list the MLS Playoff games under both scenarios? Then perhaps a CCL record comparison?

either or, threads like these always end well. With compassion and understanding for all sides of the debate.

Although typed with a healthy dose of sarcasm or jest let's try and take the message to heart and stay respectful to difference of opinion..

Parkdale
04-15-2012, 02:06 PM
Roogsy has a new account! LOL!


I lol'd pretty hard at this one.


also kids, don't forget that we have a 'user reputation system' in place.

ensco
04-15-2012, 02:11 PM
If ifs and buts were candies and nuts....how would this lineup look? Every former player on there ex Wynne was dumped for essentially nothing, I decided I would prefer Wynne to RJ but others might disagree

Eckersley-Wynne-Marshall-Dunivant
Cronin-Frings-Soolsma
Dero
Koevermans-Plata

Fort York Redcoat
04-15-2012, 02:17 PM
If ifs and buts were candies and nuts....how would this lineup look? Every former player on there ex Wynne was dumped for essentially nothing, I decided I would prefer Wynne to RJ but others might disagree

Eckersley-Wynne-Marshall-Dunivant
Cronin-Frings-Soolsma
Dero
Koevermans-Plata


Now you bring it up...

Interesting to see

Marshall-Wynne together at Colorado
DeRo-Guevara at DC

asterix606
04-15-2012, 02:26 PM
No comment regarding these stats below! I found them to be interesting!

TFC wins less
TFC loses more
TFC ties more
TFC scores less goals
TFC gets scored on more


DeRo last 37 regular season MLS games with TFC

12W 15L 10T = 46 points GF 44 GA 55 = -11


Since DeRo traded, past 37 TFC MLS regular season games

5W 17L 15T = 30 points GF 34 GA 65 = -31

Oldtimer
04-15-2012, 02:42 PM
Count only the games that Frings plays in and you get a different result.

Anyone can lie with statistics.

Beach_Red
04-15-2012, 03:10 PM
Count only the games that Frings plays in and you get a different result.

Anyone can lie with statistics.

But the choice was really DeRo or JDG, they could have bought out JDG and paid DeRo. I wonder who made the decision...

prizby
04-15-2012, 03:17 PM
No comment regarding these stats below! I found them to be interesting!

TFC wins less
TFC loses more
TFC ties more
TFC scores less goals
TFC gets scored on more


DeRo last 37 regular season MLS games with TFC

12W 15L 10T = 46 points GF 44 GA 55 = -11


Since DeRo traded, past 37 TFC MLS regular season games

5W 17L 15T = 30 points GF 34 GA 65 = -31

how about the stats that show the difference in CCL performance?

prizby
04-15-2012, 03:20 PM
But, we kept JDG on our payroll at 2M$ a season!




As a season ticket holder I'v had enough of MLSE and their terrible decision making (or lack of them).


Lets use our heads here for a second?

I am pretty sure I read a lot about how TFC should sign JDG in the summer of 2009.
In the end, who signed him and gave him a contract that he has not performed to and who gave him 3 and a half years in length?
That would be Mo Johnston.

Would you rather MLSE act more like a Jerry Jones or the late Al Davis or Daniel Snyder?

Chris Wren
04-15-2012, 03:33 PM
A De Ro thread. Wow.

Suds
04-15-2012, 03:38 PM
People can run the stats any way they want, we're not a better team post DeRo. Until we are this topic will always be discussed.

IMO, if we let JDG go and kept DeRo I think we'd be a much better team with this present roster.

ensco
04-15-2012, 03:57 PM
Lets use our heads here for a second?

I am pretty sure I read a lot about how TFC should sign JDG in the summer of 2009.
In the end, who signed him and gave him a contract that he has not performed to and who gave him 3 and a half years in length?
That would be Mo Johnston.

Would you rather MLSE act more like a Jerry Jones or the late Al Davis or Daniel Snyder?

It's not that simple.

If you are trying to curry favour with the bosses to get your contract extended, as Mo surely was, your judgment is always affected/coloured by what you think the bosses want.

At that time, the bosses wanted Canadian content, and it's still going on. They still do.

A big part of Winter's plan is a radical ignoring of NCAA soccer and a reliance on the Academy - a plan that is without precedent in North America. Is this really what someone would do unfettered on their own? Sure Klinsmann believed it could work, but does/did anyone with actual MLS team building experience believe that?

It's not hard to imagine that the outcome is influenced by the desires of the bosses.

Winter is executing on a strategy that was influenced by the corporate marketing objectives. Same as Mo.

Ajax TFC
04-15-2012, 04:35 PM
A big part of Winter's plan is a radical ignoring of NCAA soccer and a reliance on the Academy - a plan that is without precedent in North America. Is this really what someone would do unfettered on their own? Sure Klinsmann believed it could work, but does/did anyone with actual MLS team building experience believe that?

It's not hard to imagine that the outcome is influenced by the desires of the bosses.

Winter is executing on a strategy that was influenced by the corporate marketing objectives. Same as Mo.
does anyone with MLS team building experience work for a team willing to spend ridonkulous amounts of money on youth development? Given time the academy will produce talent superior to the NCAA. Academies work, they're not just some wild crazy new mysterious thing.

But there's no doubt that Winter is following objectives set by others for him. He wasn't hired to do whatever he wanted, he was hired because Klinsman and other TFC people decided that the Dutch possession/attacking oriented 4-3-3 was the way they wanted TFC to go, and they figured that he was the best candidate to implement it. And building the academy was part of his job when he was hired

ensco
04-15-2012, 04:38 PM
Given time the academy will produce talent superior to the NCAA. Academies work, they're not just some wild crazy new mysterious thing.


Not arguing that.

It's not proven that Academy products will benefit TFC in MLS. The Aleman and Vukovich thing (I really don't have a specific opinion on either player, not looking to rehash that) show that, at a minimum, it's going to be very tricky for TFC to capitalize on Academy talent.

MartinUtd
04-15-2012, 05:00 PM
You know what I miss about DeRo? His uncanny ability to shred moral, divide the locker room and bitch about his compensation at every opportunity.

nfitz
04-15-2012, 05:02 PM
You know what I miss about DeRo? His uncanny ability to shred moral, divide the locker room and bitch about his compensation at every opportunity.And yet we won more games.

Now we've removed the passion and fire of anyone who will dissent, we're left with those who like to play co-operative games, and don't rock the boat.

MartinUtd
04-15-2012, 05:14 PM
Yet he still never got us to the playoffs. I'm not overly optimistic about this season but I'm also being a realist when I say an 0-5 start isn't the end of it.

T.O TILL I DIE
04-15-2012, 05:25 PM
like i said in another thread, i think that if we kept Dero him and Johnson would play amazing together. Alot of goals would be made and finishing would be right.

asterix606
04-15-2012, 05:39 PM
But the choice was really DeRo or JDG, they could have bought out JDG and paid DeRo. I wonder who made the decision...


Was it really abour money? We could have kept both andm ore!

MLSE could have put the money down if they wanted to. They were too cheap and screwed the fans in the process.

LA and NY have huge budgets! We should also be up there in salaries. It's a choice from MLSE not to spend it.

0-5 to start the season. Im pissed off!

MLS Team Salaries 2011



Team
Median
Total


CHI

$80,916.67
$3,296,892.00


CHV

$79,000.00
$2,691,177.80


COL

$62,081.50
$3,173,078.64


CLB

$66,375.00
$3,471,860.83


DAL

$74,500.00
$3,522,437.33


DCU

$71,000.00
$3,324,518.57


HOU

$97,500.00
$3,199,080.20


SKC

$107,531.25
$3,225,771.50


LAG

$96,000.00
$12,419,679.00


NER

$73,250.00
$3,432,636.34


NYR

$96,748.00
$13,397,087.00


PHI

$125,000.00
$3,296,892.00


POR

$74,625.00
$2,652,557.59


RSL

$108,675.00
$3,517,956.76


SJE

$72,000.00
$2,710,774.71


SEA

$85,050.00
$3,465,629.23


TOR

$71,833.34
$4,262,444.84


VAN

$65,000.00
$3,570,853.38


Total

$80,000.00
$3,378,577.46

69Chevy396
04-15-2012, 05:45 PM
You know what I miss about DeRo? His uncanny ability to shred moral, divide the locker room and bitch about his compensation at every opportunity.

Laughable. Who is left in that dressing room anyway? Crosby is a little shit but the worlds best hockey player. Ronaldo? Please this constant criticism of DeRo has legs only by mlse apologists. That guy could score 40 goals this season and you would still be glad he is gone. My point: he was correct in his assessment of his lousy paycheque. He was correct in criticizing a club that paid more to Mista and JDG. DeRO is Canada's best all time soccer player and had a chance to play in Toronto, his hometown....trading him was the worst decision made by TFC...they should have paid him DP money and everybody knows it.

Roogsy
04-15-2012, 06:02 PM
You know what I miss about DeRo? His uncanny ability to shred moral, divide the locker room and bitch about his compensation at every opportunity.

I wanted my joke to be the only contribution to this thread...I am not interested in another 100+ page DeRo discussion.

But I AM interested in finally getting some proof on this statement above, which I have never gotten. It's become accepted fact among TFC supporters that the above is fact vs speculation and I am tired of fabrications being accepted for fact. So in the spirit of backing up your statement, please provide any evidence to that effect. We've seen former colleagues like like Barrett, Henry, and Attakora publicly support him. Several times his own teammates have voted him team MVP here in Toronto and elsewhere. So we know there is an element that believes in him, who were these disgruntled players that felt alienated to the point where we feel it hurt the lockerroom and the team morale? Let's have it. Because if you "miss it" it must've been true!

Once you have presented this evidence, I will not debate it, simply let it be.

asterix606
04-15-2012, 06:09 PM
Laughable. Who is left in that dressing room anyway? Crosby is a little shit but the worlds best hockey player. Ronaldo? Please this constant criticism of DeRo has legs only by mlse apologists. That guy could score 40 goals this season and you would still be glad he is gone. My point: he was correct in his assessment of his lousy paycheque. He was correct in criticizing a club that paid more to Mista and JDG. DeRO is Canada's best all time soccer player and had a chance to play in Toronto, his hometown....trading him was the worst decision made by TFC...they should have paid him DP money and everybody knows it.

100% with you on that one! The DeRo trade pushed this team back not forward. He was our captain and the best player on the field. MVP for 2011 for crying out loud!

And we traded him for nothing at the end. Crazy!

DeRo last 37 regular season MLS games with TFC = 32.4 win %

Since DeRo traded, past 37 TFC MLS regular season games = 13.5 win %


These types of numbers dont lie!

MartinUtd
04-15-2012, 06:25 PM
I don't want to debate this silly topic and I knew I shouldn't have waded into it in the first place. Everyone knows about the clique he formed. Everyone watched him pick his own position regardless of where the coach wanted him to play and everyone had had enough with his cheque signing fiasco. The issue is dead and calling me an MLSE apologist isn't going to bring him back.

I'm done with this thread.

Roogsy
04-15-2012, 06:33 PM
I don't want to debate this silly topic and I knew I shouldn't have waded into it in the first place. Everyone knows about the clique he formed. Everyone watched him pick his own position regardless of where the coach wanted him to play and everyone had had enough with his cheque signing fiasco. The issue is dead and calling me an MLSE apologist isn't going to bring him back.

I'm done with this thread.

Translation: I have no proof I'm just buying into the rumour.

As evidenced with the always popular "everyone knows". Funny that a guy like me with various friendships within the lockerroom was not privy to this info everyone else apparently "knew".

asterix606
04-15-2012, 06:36 PM
"Silly topic" you say. Look at the numbers! We are down to 13.5 win % since he left (Regular season).

0-5 start! There should be a debate about the idiots who traded him (big word: gave him away).

It is the past, but looking at our numbers since he left and our shit start for 2012. Questions should be asked.

Roogsy
04-15-2012, 06:44 PM
I may disagree with the manner in which the poster brought this up...and I'm not even sure it's necessary anymore as Winter is doing a good enough job on his own to work his way out...but...

He's right in that the numbers don't lie. You can rationalize it up and down all day long it doesn't change the raw data.

brad
04-15-2012, 06:55 PM
100% with you on that one! The DeRo trade pushed this team back not forward. He was our captain and the best player on the field. MVP for 2011 for crying out loud!

And we traded him for nothing at the end. Crazy!

DeRo last 37 regular season MLS games with TFC = 32.4 win %

Since DeRo traded, past 37 TFC MLS regular season games = 13.5 win %


These types of numbers dont lie!

What those numbers tell me is we were crap with DeRo and we are crap without him.

Pookie
04-15-2012, 07:09 PM
And yet we won more games.

Now we've removed the passion and fire of anyone who will dissent, we're left with those who like to play co-operative games, and don't rock the boat.

yet, we never made it as far as we did in the CCL

You say we removed the passion and fire. I say we accommodated an unhappy and selfish player with his trade request.

His contract was good enough to play for DC but not for us. Yet, you miss him. Funny.

Roogsy
04-15-2012, 07:33 PM
If only TFC had offered a similar contract eh?

tiberius
04-15-2012, 07:39 PM
I don't want to debate this silly topic and I knew I shouldn't have waded into it in the first place. Everyone knows about the clique he formed. Everyone watched him pick his own position regardless of where the coach wanted him to play and everyone had had enough with his cheque signing fiasco. The issue is dead and calling me an MLSE apologist isn't going to bring him back.

I'm done with this thread.

What a load of crap - Dero was a great homeboy CANADIAN talent - the potential marketing, the talent and the delivery of quality soccer talent was squandered. MLSE refused to honour Mo's promises. Then MLSE (ie Tommy Boi) was publicly humiliated by Dero for exposing less than honourable business dealings. Winter et. al. is caught in the crossfire and pisses him away FOR NOTHING. These are facts - drivel about cliques is nothing but that - start with what caused the issues - lack of anything reflecting moral fibre within the mlse organization. Ban me AGAIN from these board if you must or close the thread, as per usual, but last years April fool's joke hurt this team tremendously. I am pro-Winter and support the boys as we speak - but stop this snivelling, rear view mirror denial. WE ARE WORST NOW - SUCK IT UP - Dero would have helped - A LOT!!

Ajax TFC
04-15-2012, 07:40 PM
Interesting DeRo stat: number of playoff appearances without DeRo: zero. Number of playoff appearances with DeRo: zero

Beach_Red
04-15-2012, 07:50 PM
yet, we never made it as far as we did in the CCL

You say we removed the passion and fire. I say we accommodated an unhappy and selfish player with his trade request.

His contract was good enough to play for DC but not for us. Yet, you miss him. Funny.

It seems a little odd that you can see the problems with the front office clearly and yet don't see any connection between those problems and a player's "unhappiness" with the organization. An exec who has little to no experience in the sports business and who has pretty consistently hired inexperienced managers and coaches might look less than competely secure in his position and he might have trouble with an outspoken player who has the support of the fans. But in this city it seems quite easy for the corporation to get suprt over the players. For some reason in Toronto it's always the players' who are at fault. Maybe that's even true in this case, who knows? All we know for sure is we lost the player and we still have the exec running the team.

Chevy
04-15-2012, 08:02 PM
Interesting DeRo stat: number of playoff appearances without DeRo: zero. Number of playoff appearances with DeRo: zero

And WITH DeRo, our supposed leader and saviour, he blew the CCL and completely shit the bed in Vancouver. We had our asses saved only by the Impact's decision to play a bunch or beer-leaguers in the deciding game. Didn't he also shit the bed in our 5-0 loss at NYRB where we could have made the playoffs? If every success falls on DeRo's shoulders, shouldn't he take the entire blame for the failures too? I suppose that's someone else's fault right?

As someone said a few posts ago, you can't argue with the raw data. More appropriately, you can spin s**t any way you want to.

Hey, can someone pull the "raw data" and compare the Kenny Cooper era at NYRB to Dero's? Kenny should be fake-cheque-signing any minute.

Wull
04-15-2012, 08:04 PM
It seems a little odd that you can see the problems with the front office clearly and yet don't see any connection between those problems and a player's "unhappiness" with the organization. An exec who has little to no experience in the sports business and who has pretty consistently hired inexperienced managers and coaches might look less than competely secure in his position and he might have trouble with an outspoken player who has the support of the fans. But in this city it seems quite easy for the corporation to get suprt over the players. For some reason in Toronto it's always the players' who are at fault. Maybe that's even true in this case, who knows? All we know for sure is we lost the player and we still have the exec running the team.

I think he lost most of his support with the cheque-signing fiasco. If that hadn't happened, he would have been a lot more difficult to get rid of

Pookie
04-15-2012, 08:17 PM
If only TFC had offered a similar contract eh?

Like the one he was offered and signed that he wanted to rip up a year later? That same one that he played for in NY, then DC?n yeah, shame we didn't offer him the same contract he played for with both teams last year. Pitty really.

Roogsy
04-15-2012, 08:23 PM
Like the one he was offered and signed that he wanted to rip up a year later? That same one that he played for in NY, then DC?n yeah, shame we didn't offer him the same contract he played for with both teams last year. Pitty really.

You know I have both the endurance and content to go at this with you for another 100 pages Pook. The question is do you want to start it up again? You keep bringing up half-true points and I keep refuting them with complete facts. Say the word and I will crack my knuckles, put on a pot and go to town. What's the word?

asterix606
04-15-2012, 08:24 PM
And WITH DeRo, our supposed leader and saviour, he blew the CCL and completely shit the bed in Vancouver. We had our asses saved only by the Impact's decision to play a bunch or beer-leaguers in the deciding game. Didn't he also shit the bed in our 5-0 loss at NYRB where we could have made the playoffs? If every success falls on DeRo's shoulders, shouldn't he take the entire blame for the failures too? I suppose that's someone else's fault right?

As someone said a few posts ago, you can't argue with the raw data. More appropriately, you can spin s**t any way you want to.

Hey, can someone pull the "raw data" and compare the Kenny Cooper era at NYRB to Dero's? Kenny should be fake-cheque-signing any minute.


Im not spinning anything, its just wins, loses and ties! Its basic numbers, nothing to spin. I was just interested this afternoon to see how we were doing since DeRo left, it had been 37 regular games ago.


Yes, we were shit back then, but at least winning 32.4% of games. But now, we are EXTREME shit, winning 13.5% of games!

Yes, DeRo never brought us to the playoffs, but at least you were happy 32.4% of the time in his last 37 games at TFC.

Yes, we made it to the semi of Champions League without him. It was a great run. But we are still 0-5 this regular season.

Yes, the signing of the check was stupid, but definetly did not warrant suck hatred by some fans. Seeing Mista and JDG raking big $$ would make anyone go mad.

Pookie
04-15-2012, 08:24 PM
It seems a little odd that you can see the problems with the front office clearly and yet don't see any connection between those problems and a player's "unhappiness" with the organization. An exec who has little to no experience in the sports business and who has pretty consistently hired inexperienced managers and coaches might look less than competely secure in his position and he might have trouble with an outspoken player who has the support of the fans. But in this city it seems quite easy for the corporation to get suprt over the players. For some reason in Toronto it's always the players' who are at fault. Maybe that's even true in this case, who knows? All we know for sure is we lost the player and we still have the exec running the team.

Oh, I see a connection. Not sure why it has to be one or the other in this debate. Stores sell more than one douchebag.

MLSE as an owner has blame in it. DeRo's history of douchebaggery and demands got him out of Houston, out of Toronto and out of New York. He is a player to sell tickets around. Not one to build a team around.

I would be quite happy if the net result of DeRo's trade demands were that DeRo gets shipped out AND Anselmi steps down. So far, 1 for 2.

Actually, I would be quite happy if MLS, the actual owner, opts to remove the owner operator privilege from MLSE and find a new owner-operator but I digress.

Beach_Red
04-15-2012, 08:24 PM
I think he lost most of his support with the cheque-signing fiasco. If that hadn't happened, he would have been a lot more difficult to get rid of

Yeah, I think you're right, that was the moment, he gave all the power to the suits. Well, most athletes are pretty emotional and most suits are pretty calculating so the suits usually win.

nfitz
04-15-2012, 08:30 PM
You say we removed the passion and fire. I say we accommodated an unhappy and selfish player with his trade request.The trade request was made, because the promises he was made by the manager were not delivered. For some reason, TFC managment seemed to think that by firing the manager, that they were not bound by his verbal promises.


His contract was good enough to play for DC but not for us. Yet, you miss him. Funny.I miss him because he was about the only quality, consistent player we've ever seen. All we've had otherwise are washed up or approaching retirement Europeans like Dichio, Robert, Mista, Frings, and Koevermans, who may have a few good games left in them, but not many. And DeGuzman ... and I can't fathom for a minute why we're willing to pay DeGuzman a million$+ but we couldn't throw another $100,000 at Derosario? Do you really think DeGuzman is worth 4-times Derosario?

Beach_Red
04-15-2012, 08:31 PM
Oh, I see a connection. Not sure why it has to be one or the other in this debate. Stores sell more than one douchebag.

MLSE as an owner has blame in it. DeRo's history of douchebaggery and demands got him out of Houston, out of Toronto and out of New York. He is a player to sell tickets around. Not one to build a team around.

I would be quite happy if the net result of DeRo's trade demands were that DeRo gets shipped out AND Anselmi steps down. So far, 1 for 2.

Actually, I would be quite happy if MLS, the actual owner, opts to remove the owner operator privilege from MLSE and find a new owner-operator but I digress.

So far, 1 for 2, ha ha, I like it. Too bad we can't trade execs, Anselmi for a third round Superdraft pick....

Suds
04-15-2012, 08:38 PM
So far, 1 for 2, ha ha, I like it. Too bad we can't trade execs, Anselmi for a third round Superdraft pick....

I'd settle for a new bag of balls and orange pylons.

ArmenJBX
04-15-2012, 08:56 PM
I'm assuming he's not making more than a crisp $1 million at DC United, which begs the question:

If we got rid of Julian de Guzman right now, and offered De Rosario the $2 million a year, would he come back?

nfitz
04-15-2012, 09:00 PM
I'm assuming he's not making more than a crisp $1 million at DC United, which begs the question:

If we got rid of Julian de Guzman right now, and offered De Rosario the $2 million a year, would he come back?Even I think that door has, regrettably, closed and should be left closed. I don't understand however, why Cochrane, who screwed this up so badly, wasn't fired at the beginning of last season. Even ignoring this, he was there when Johnson was screwing people over - he must have known what was going on.

Parkdale
04-15-2012, 09:10 PM
'this topic has been done to death, and there's nothing new to add to the discussion'

if something newsworthy comes up, then let's visit the dero discussion in an appropriate thread.

:deadhorse: