'General admittance' in Montreal away supporters section

[Ossington Mental Youth]

When we arrived we saw some supporters in our seats. Then then tried to tell us our seats were general admittance. It didnt say that on the tickets, website or any rep from montreal or ticketmaster. Dunno what supporters group they were from but they were really big dicks about it. Ended up getting our seats anyways (thanks to security). This shouldnt of been an issue. None of us had any problem with squeezing extra people into our row or anything like that but we definitely have a problem with people telling us that the seats we paid for arent ours to sit in. People sorta whined afterwards. The dudes next to us started out cold but ended up being nice guys. Just thought that should get aired out. Was pretty disappointed fellow supporters would act that way.

[DOMIN8R]

Many among us behaved badly. I saw a supporter trying to provoke a female police officer, someone trying to provoke a fight with a limpact supporter and the general bad behaviour that comes with those who are young and can't hold their alcohol. But overall the away support should be proud.
Unfortunately the team nor its personal seemed to appreciate the effort made. That's the piece that bothers me the most.
But back go your point, it seemed to me that those who are with SGs or those who have been to a few away games get it. There seems to be a real camaraderie growing among those who have done half a dozen road trips together. It's nice to see.

[Mark in Ottawa]

I talked to the Security staff about this. They said they tried to usher people to their assigned seats as per their tickets but when the TFC supporters march arrived the large number of people simply swarmed into the supporters area and they decided it would be easier to deal with complaints than try to verify people were in the correct seats.

They were much more concerned with the limited amount of bad behaviour (usual drunken fools and the idiots letting off smoke bombs ... indoors at that) that they saw but said that in the end they felt it all went fairly well.

We were lucky. They could have treated that smoke bomb incident a lot more harshly. Imagine if they had decided to clear that whole section while they investigated/cleaned up. I thought they did a pretty decent job.

[jazzy]

Many among us behaved badly. I saw a supporter trying to provoke a female police officer, someone trying to provoke a fight with a limpact supporter and the general bad behaviour that comes with those who are young and can't hold their alcohol. But overall the away support should be proud.
Unfortunately the team nor its personal seemed to appreciate the effort made. That's the piece that bothers me the most.
But back go your point, it seemed to me that those who are with SGs or those who have been to a few away games get it. There seems to be a real camaraderie growing among those who have done half a dozen road trips together. It's nice to see.

^true........well put,..it was stated to anyone who took the time to read the ticket thread that the seats were NOT GA,.....and because of the very pushy security no none could stay or stand in the aisle or even close to it. Many well intentioned supporters tried to push into others seats. An older gentleman near me was forced out of his seat due to early arrivals, moving down to occupy his seats........interesting group yesterday although I enjoyed myself and it was great having fun in Montreal seeing friends and the like totally pissed with idiot "supporter"?, behind me.(you know who you are), who set off the 2 smoke bombs ruining one fellows new white jersey and covering my wife's clothes and body with smoke....we basically couldn't breath or taste properly the rest of the match,.....if you don't have the guts to hold the smoke in YOUR hand....then why throw it at others feet......thankfully I talked security out of throwing out the gentlemen in front of me who also had a smoke bomb at his feet and accused him of doing it......other than that there are a terrific bunch of great people, women and men who support the team.....as for 'the team' why they ALL didn't in mass come over......DISSAPPOINTING......perhaps there is truth that as always there is inner strife within the locker room......it seems that way on the field. It's hard to believe we could be in for hard times but I fear there is not much respect within this team...and it is starting show.n

[Mark in Ottawa]

totally pissed with idiot "supporter"?, behind me.(you know who you are), who set off the 2 smoke bombs ruining one fellows new white jersey and covering my wife's clothes and body with smoke....we basically couldn't breath or taste properly the rest of the match,.....if you don't have the guts to hold the smoke in YOUR hand....then why throw it at others feet......thankfully I talked security out of throwing out the gentlemen in front of me who also had a smoke bomb at his feet and accused him of doing it......
And did you point out the smoke bomb tosser to security??
Is he a member of one of the supporters groups??

This person should not be hiding among the supporters and using them as a cover for what they are doing.
They should not be allowed to purchase or hold any tickets which have been issued to the supporters groups.

[Canada72]

There was a change in thinking about GA, the ticket thread mentioned we would be GA but when MTL HO sent out the "Supporter Group Plan - TFC - April 7.pdf" it mentioned there would be NO GA.

[jazzy]

And did you point out the smoke bomb tosser to security??
Is he a member of one of the supporters groups??

This person should not be hiding among the supporters and using them as a cover for what they are doing.
They should not be allowed to purchase or hold any tickets which have been issued to the supporters groups.

True It was my wife who figured it out..later..as I obviously didn't see him throw it.....I know who he is , by face only , and will look into it,...I confronted him and he just smiled and did a ah shucks it wasn't me,,,,,this is the problem it is so quick if one doesn't actually see him....but the wife saw him put his scarf over his face just before throwing it . and not being a part of this 'action' before she thought nothing of it.......

[London]

i think with such a large group of people you are gonna get all kinds of people, maybe when the crowd is that large they should seperate the sections in terms of "level of participation"

sitting section
standing section
standing and flags section.

then people could kinda be with like minded others

[Yohan]

I thought this away section was a lot better than some games at south stand. Also massive props to polish dave for leading as capo. Though needed another capo for coordination between top and bottom

i think with such a large group of people you are gonna get all kinds of people, maybe when the crowd is that large they should seperate the sections in terms of "level of participation"

sitting section
standing section
standing and flags section.

then people could kinda be with like minded others

[Redcoe15]

One of those smoke bombs landed in the row down next to me to the right. It was bad enough that I had to use my scarf as a mask. I saw security run up past me to, I asume, deal with whomever threw that smoke bomb. That was not very pleasant.

[RedRum]

Away games have always, and will always be GA. Accept it.

[Eastend]

One of those smoke bombs landed in the row down next to me to the right. It was bad enough that I had to use my scarf as a mask. I saw security run up past me to, I asume, deal with whomever threw that smoke bomb. That was not very pleasant.

I was right in front of you in that row and my scarf didn't help much with he smoke...I actually left section while the smoke cleared.

Childish.

Dom.

[SCF1908]

Smoke is a hallmark of football support. In row 2 there was almost a fire from a flare by the capo. So what? I loved it, my kids loved it, and there's nothing like going to an away stadium and making a statement. It almost took me back to Europe with the terraces nearly on fire.

[Yeoman]

jazzy what's 'later'
later in the stadium? later at the hotel?
why haven't you brought anything up offically then rather than complaining on the boards?

[David_Oliveira]

I always thought this to be the case, just like how 112 works. The only thing I would say is that if it was specified that supporters had to sit in their assigned seats. there isn't much else to say about it. That should have been followed. I don't like how the Rogers Centre game was not GA.

[Red Rat]

Smoke is a trademark we should beat the shit of people because they wear the wrong colour scarf. Fuck if the Greeks can burn a stadium down we should as well.

[prizby]

this was the first away game i have been to where people were complaining about not being at their seats on their tickets (especially those coming in 15 to 25 minutes after kickoff)...i didnt know being at your actual seats was more important than collectively supporting toronto from the stands.

[DOMIN8R]

Smoke is a hallmark of football support. In row 2 there was almost a fire from a flare by the capo. So what? I loved it, my kids loved it, and there's nothing like going to an away stadium and making a statement. It almost took me back to Europe with the terraces nearly on fire.

I disagree. There is no way smoke is a hallmark of support. Perhaps, in a few small markets, on occasion. But I haven't seen smoke in most European or SA leagues in recent years. Perhaps, you would argue that they just don't know how to support their teams in larger and well established football markets?

I just can't get used to the idea that a fire starting is, viewed by a few as, an admirable way to make a statement.

For the record, I know who lit the smoke bombs. They are not part of any SG that I know of. They are great supporters and I consider them friends. And we agree to disagree on smoke and flares.

[SCF1908]

Smoke is a trademark we should beat the shit of people because they wear the wrong colour scarf. Fuck if the Greeks can burn a stadium down we should as well.


Smoke IS a trademark of football support. I've been to games in Holland, Brazil, Bulgaria, Italy, Germany, France, Czechoslovakia, Kenya, Macedonia to name a few, and only England didn't have smoke bombs. And not just a few smoke bombs, but fucking masses of it. Even Gor Mahia fans in Nairobi made home made smoke bombs and most of them subsisted on a dollar a day.

[SCF1908]

I disagree. There is no way smoke is a hallmark of support. Perhaps, in a few small markets, on occasion. But I haven't seen smoke in most European or SA leagues in recent years. Perhaps, you would argue that they just don't know how to support their teams in larger and well established football markets?

I just can't get used to the idea that a fire starting is, viewed by a few as, an admirable way to make a statement.

For the record, I know who lit the smoke bombs. They are not part of any SG that I know of. They are great supporters and I consider them friends. And we agree to disagree on smoke and flares.


Go look at my list I just posted and 90% were in the last 5 years and many are major markets.

[Flint]

Smoke is a hallmark of football support. In row 2 there was almost a fire from a flare by the capo. So what? I loved it, my kids loved it, and there's nothing like going to an away stadium and making a statement. It almost took me back to Europe with the terraces nearly on fire.

I agree with you. Nothing wrong with smoke.
Was that your kid who capoed? He rocks!

[SCF1908]

I agree with you. Nothing wrong with smoke.
Was that your kid who capoed? He rocks!


Yes it was!

An Olympiakos supporter, of course you love smoke. And I consider Greece a "Major" football market.

[Red Rat]

and what is the common denominator?
Poverty and high crime rate?
Knock your selves out boys keep lighting them up and please do it at BMO too it needs a new paint job

[SCF1908]

and what is the common denominator?
Poverty and high crime rate?
Knock your selves out boys keep lighting them up and please do it at BMO too it needs a new paint job


Yeah, poverty.

You are a genius.

Holland, France, Germany, Italy all live below the poverty line. Bulgarian people all looked healthy and prosperous to me. Same with the Macedonians. Czechs are better off than the Spanish.

But of course these are all small markets apparently.

[Red Rat]

so these no crime in these countries?
as I said it knock yourself out? BMO needs a new paint job

[Phil]

Yeah, poverty.

You are a genius.

Holland, France, Germany, Italy all live below the poverty line. Bulgarian people all looked healthy and prosperous to me. Same with the Macedonians. Czechs are better off than the Spanish.

But of course these are all small markets apparently.


The thing is, regardless of country, here we have rules about it and we choose to observe them.

[SCF1908]

The thing is, regardless of country, here we have rules about it and we choose to observe them.


Saturday would indicate the opposite actually.

[Phil]

Saturday would indicate the opposite actually.

I didn't see many RPB engaging in that crap. Quite the opposite really.

[Jeffro]

Smoke IS a trademark of football support. I've been to games in Holland, Brazil, Bulgaria, Italy, Germany, France, Czechoslovakia, Kenya, Macedonia to name a few, and only England didn't have smoke bombs. And not just a few smoke bombs, but fucking masses of it. Even Gor Mahia fans in Nairobi made home made smoke bombs and most of them subsisted on a dollar a day.

Now you're in Canada, spare us your 'this is how they do it elsewhere' bullshit. I don't need years taken off my life inhaling noxious smoke because I want to support my Football team.

[stuart.mac]

Can someone name an honest pro for the smoke bombs other than "atmosphere" or it being a part of football? Does it bring something to the game? We have hear people say their clothing was destroyed, fire almost started, people could have been injured. What good comes from it? Just wondering.

I bought at ticket in section 147 because I knew for sure I'd get a 5th row seat, rather than dealing with people stealing my seats, but here is a picture of the smoke bombs I got. Even from where we were, there was a couple minutes that it was hard to breath, can't imagine what it was like for the people in the heart of it.

http://i44.tinypic.com/153wps8.jpg

[SCF1908]

I didn't see many RPB engaging in that crap. Quite the opposite really.


An excellent response Phil. You are the President and I understand your position. I am being serious. Omerta works for me too.



Now you're in Canada, spare us your 'this is how they do it elsewhere' bullshit. I don't need years taken off my life inhaling noxious smoke because I want to support my Football team.


Look at the picture in the last post.

Canada.

End of.

[Toronto]

Curious, would TFC allow 1000 Impact supporters into BMO? If due to lack of space, when the Impact move to Saputo and they can only give TFC supporters 40 tickets will we all bitch?

[DOMIN8R]

Curious, would TFC allow 1000 Impact supporters into BMO? If due to lack of space, when the Impact move to Saputo and they can only give TFC supporters 40 tickets will we all bitch?

Yup. It's likely that we have seen the last big (1000+) TFC travelling group to Montreal.

[Jeffro]

An excellent response Phil. You are the President and I understand your position. I am being serious. Omerta works for me too.





Look at the picture in the last post.

Canada.

End of.

Great, and our support will be fantastic when we aren't allowed to bring banners, flags or drums into any stadiums. Bravo.

[Red Rat]

at least we would burn their stadium down

[Eastend]

An excellent response Phil. You are the President and I understand your position. I am being serious. Omerta works for me too.





Look at the picture in the last post.

Canada.

End of.

Yes in Canada, but lit by people longing for the "old country"?

Dom.

[SCF1908]

Yes in Canada, but lit by people longing for the "old country"?

Dom.


You know this for fact and know exactly who did what?

[Eastend]

You know this for fact and know exactly who did what?

Yes. One was lit in front of me with direction from others as the when and where.

[SCF1908]

Yes. It was lit in front of me.


There was more than one man. So what about the others?

Hey, look, I don't expect everyone to agree with me nor do I expect everyone to expect my consensus. Devil's advocate and all that, just so we're all clear.

[J .]

lol @ this post I bet Phil has been giving lists to the FO of suspected supporters. Why even go to games? How many words did these whiners sing? Barely any? The smoke was awesome. The support from some alleged supporters was crap. You are going to lose more years of your life eating food than a minute of smoke. Put scarf over your mouth and dont hyperventate. You are more likely to get sick from the people beside you than a smoke bomb. This thread should be stickied for the hilarity. Every year they are going to remove our banners and drums, the world is going to end blah blah blah. The only thing positive about the MLS season have been the supporters, not the fan club for kids.

[J .]

Yup. It's likely that we have seen the last big (1000+) TFC travelling group to Montreal.


LOL cause people lit smoke? What are you smoking? Roflcopter to the rescue.

[SCF1908]

lol @ this post I bet Phil has been giving lists to the FO of suspected supporters. Why even go to games? How many words did these whiners sing? Barely any? The smoke was awesome. The support from some alleged supporters was crap. You are going to lose more years of your life eating food than a minute of smoke. Put scarf over your mouth and dont hyperventate. You are more likely to get sick from the people beside you than a smoke bomb. This thread should be stickied for the hilarity. Every year they are going to remove our banners and drums, the world is going to end blah blah blah. The only thing positive about the MLS season have been the supporters, not the fan club for kids.



hahhahahahaha

[Toronto]

LOL cause people lit smoke? What are you smoking? Roflcopter to the rescue.

Nah cause next time every seat at Saputo will be sold and there will be no room at the inn so to speak

[J .]

The thing is, regardless of country, here we have rules about it and we choose to observe them.


With you in charge soon we will all be sitting quietly observing the rules. Go away

[J .]

Nah cause next time every seat at Saputo will be sold and there will be no room at the inn so to speak



I wouldnt blame them. BMO TFC give barely any out and we would deserve the same treatment. Sad to say.

[Flint]

LOL cause people lit smoke? What are you smoking? Roflcopter to the rescue.

lol i think it has more to do with the fact that the next game will be at saputo with a much smaller away sec.

[Eastend]

Yes. One was lit in front of me with direction from others as the when and where.


There was more than one man. So what about the others?

Hey, look, I don't expect everyone to agree with me nor do I expect everyone to expect my consensus. Devil's advocate and all that, just so we're all clear.

You're right there was more then 1. I was editing my post to reflect that. Anyway, at the end of the day not everyone will agree so it is what it is.

Dom.

[SCF1908]

You're right there was more then 1. I was editing my post to reflect that. Anyway, at the end of the day not everyone will agree so it is what it is.

Dom.


No fears man.

Look, some of us from elsewhere like smoke, some of us from elsewhere don't like it, some born here like it, some born here do not. I think that's a fair summation.

[Flint]

Yes in Canada, but lit by people longing for the "old country"?

Dom.

You could argue that people supporting football in anyway are longing for the "old country"

One thing I hate (not directed at anyone) is when people shit on other peoples prefered style of support. Personally I hate the british syle but ive never gone out to shit all over it.

BTW Im greek but I was born and raised in CANADA so I'm not at games looking to re-live anything from "back home"

[jabbronies]

So did the people who brought and lit the smoke bombs in actually hold on to them or did they do the same pussy move they always do which is throw it and run?

[Phil]

With you in charge soon we will all be sitting quietly observing the rules. Go away

LOL very civil. I prefer to stand and have a flag, banners and people singing for 90+ minutes supporting the team.

But that is just me, apparently you know me better than I know myself.

[DOMIN8R]

LOL cause people lit smoke? What are you smoking? Roflcopter to the rescue.

Wow. You completely missed point.

Let's start from the beginning. Are you aware that there is another stadium other than the Big O that the Impact plans on playing in? Do you know that it's presently under construction/renovation? Do you know what the capacity will be of the Saputo Stadium? Do you know how many tickets the Impact have sold on average for each of it's home games this year? Do you know what the MLS policy is regarding making away supporter tickets available? Once you have the answers to these questions - you will understand why we think that it's unlikely that we will get another 1000 away tickets.

Unless you are too small to admit a mistake - I look forward to reading your retraction.

[Eastend]

You could argue that people supporting football in anyway are longing for the "old country"

One thing I hate (not directed at anyone) is when people shit on other peoples prefered style of support. Personally I hate the british syle but ive never gone out to shit all over it.

BTW Im greek but I was born and raised in CANADA so I'm not at games looking to re-live anything from "back home"

OK.

Also, this would make you Canadian.....with Greek ancestory.

Dom

[ryan]

I personally hate people who get anal about seat numbers. Reminds me of that Simpsons episode..."BUT THE VELVET ROPE". C'mon, live a little people. You won't do without a seat and one row to the next makes no bloody difference. If you're just interested in watching a match, why are you in a supporter section? I figured it's implied that the section's purpose is beyond this sort of stuff.

[jabbronies]

Wow. You completely missed point.

Let's start from the beginning. Are you aware that there is another stadium other than the Big O that the Impact plans on playing in? Do you know that it's presently under construction/renovation? Do you know what the capacity will be of the Saputo Stadium? Do you know how many tickets the Impact have sold on average for each of it's home games this year? Do you know what the MLS policy is regarding making away supporter tickets available? Once you have the answers to these questions - you will understand why we think that it's unlikely that we will get another 1000 away tickets.

Unless you are too small to admit a mistake - I look forward to reading your retraction.

lol. Why even bother trying to explain that to this guy?

Ooltra supporter don't care about anything except support. Lit bombs, sing songs pay no attention to why you are there.

[DOMIN8R]

With you in charge soon we will all be sitting quietly observing the rules. Go away

I take huge offense to this. Go post on your own board before telling Phil what to do. You are a guest here. If you can't show respect to those who pay, volunteer and make countless sacrifices to organize support for our team (including allowing you to have a voice here), you should leave or "go away".

[J .]

DOMIN8R if thats what you meant, then I was wrong. Then again. I dont think weve seen the last of the Big O. So how do you know. We did just play at Skydome, but you are aware we have a field at BMO? I guess we wont ever go back to the Skydome. No. Chance. Of. That. Ever..... Phil... Nothing wrong with being a fan buddy just dont go throwing other people under the bus as we know you really want to do. There is plenty of room for your style in 115. Why dont you get flags going over there? Maybe get some singing going for 90 minutes?

[J .]

Nah man I had no idea whats going on... Lol. Walk and chew gum ever?
lol. Why even bother trying to explain that to this guy?

Ooltra supporter don't care about anything except support. Lit bombs, sing songs pay no attention to why you are there.

[J .]

I take huge offense to this. Go post on your own board before telling Phil what to do. You are a guest here. If you can't show respect to those who pay, volunteer and make countless sacrifices to organize support for our team (including allowing you to have a voice here), you should leave or "go away".


Take what ever you want. Facts are facts.

[adamdz]

lol. Why even bother trying to explain that to this guy?

Ooltra supporter don't care about anything except support. Lit bombs, sing songs pay no attention to why you are there.

Last time I checked I was able to chant and wave flags with my eyes open.

[DOMIN8R]

Look! It's a pile on from the oooltras. Shouldn't you guys have your own SG and message board or something?

[Phil]

DOMIN8R if thats what you meant, then I was wrong. Then again. I dont think weve seen the last of the Big O. So how do you know. We did just play at Skydome, but you are aware we have a field at BMO? I guess we wont ever go back to the Skydome. No. Chance. Of. That. Ever..... Phil... Nothing wrong with being a fan buddy just dont go throwing other people under the bus as we know you really want to do. There is plenty of room for your style in 115. Why dont you get flags going over there? Maybe get some singing going for 90 minutes?

I don't consider myself a fan but a supporter, apparently you are the only one who can hand out that award though. Nobody is getting thrown under the bus from here. Take a look at 115 and tell me the size difference between that and 112. Good luck.

[Shakes McQueen]

With you in charge soon we will all be sitting quietly observing the rules. Go away

The rules have never stipulated you have to sit quietly at games, and I'm dying to know how you think telling the President of this "fan club for kids" to go away is going to be received by moderators and members alike.

If you've got valid criticism of the fan support at games to make, then make it. Leave your petulant nonsense out of it. Phil, and the rest of the RPB execs spend lots of time talking with the team, to try and defend supporters at games, and their right and ability to support the team loudly. But this isn't Europe. Sports culture here is not okay with smoke bombs and flares, and other embarrassing "ultra" nonsense that has percolated across the ocean for decades. Deal with it, and remember why you ultimately go to the games.

- Scott

[Phil]

Look! It's a pile on from the oooltras. Shouldn't you guys have your own SG and message board or something?

Sometimes I do wonder...

[Shakes McQueen]

You know this for fact and know exactly who did what?

Don't be willfully obtuse. The use of smoke bombs and flares at football games has been going on overseas for a long time. People longing for such a hardcore "ultra" culture here, or people who think it looks cool, see that and want to recreate it.

Smoke bombs don't go with the sport of football like hand and glove, so it's pretty much an axiomatic statement that the people doing this are being influenced by a desired to emulate "old world" football culture. But this isn't the old country, for better and for worse.

- Scott

[adamdz]

Look! It's a pile on from the oooltras. Shouldn't you guys have your own SG and message board or something?

Don't mind J, he is still probably pissy after the crappy trip. As far as us being here, this is still the largest group in the city, and this is the largest forum with the most exposure we as toronto fc supporters have. This is really the only place that exists online where things can be discussed, at least to some extent, and reach the most amount of relevant people possible. I wish a more neutral forum existed that everyone used, but it is what it is.

[MartinUtd]

You banned J. for THAT? Pretty thin skinned, fellas. He usually a good contributor.

[Jack]

I banned him, yes. You can disagree and discuss all you want, but you don't call out Phil like that and expect to continue to participate on this forum.

[MartinUtd]

So it's an authority thing. Got it.

[DOMIN8R]

You banned J. for THAT? Pretty thin skinned, fellas. He usually a good contributor.

I don't agree. Those insulting RPBs and their leader in the RPB forum should be banned. You are in a minority on this one. When you are a paid member of this SG and your in good standing I might listen to you. Until then, you are just another oooltra-old-world-wanna-be who can't organize sufficiently to get your own message board and organization off the ground.

Go piss in your own yard.

[Jack]

So it's an authority thing. Got it.
It's about respecting someone who works very hard for support of this team, end of story. You don't shit on Phil on this message board and expect to continue to participate. Have a look at the URL at the top of the forum. Phil is one of the pillars of making this whole thing possible. If you have an issue with it, feel free to send me a private message.

[Detroit_TFC]

So it's an authority thing. Got it.

Seriously? This isn't a public utility.

[David_Oliveira]

Wow this thread derailed quickly... Sorry to see it happen. The comments against Phil were not necessary. He does alot of work for the group. I agree that as a guest, you shouldn't be making negative comments about the president of the club who's message board you are posting on

[Shakes McQueen]

I don't agree. Those insulting RPBs and their leader in the RPB forum should be banned. You are in a minority on this one. When you are a paid member of this SG and your in good standing I might listen to you. Until then, you are just another oooltra-old-world-wanna-be who can't organize sufficiently to get your own message board and organization off the ground.

Go piss in your own yard.

I think this is out of line, Dom. For starters, MartinUtd wasn't involved in the original discussion about "ultra" nonsense, and is generally a poster in good standing so far as I can tell. Secondly, you said people who insult RPB member should be banned, and then proceeded to insult him.

I think a deep breath needs to be taken here. MartinUtd, if you have concerns about the actions taken, as Jack said - please PM a moderator.

- Scott

[MartinUtd]

Hey, no disrespect from me personally. I've just seen worse dialog ignored. Regardless of who it was directed at, the response seemed to be heavy handed. That's all.

[Phil]

I think a deep breath needs to be taken here. MartinUtd, if you have concerns about the actions taken, as Jack said - please PM a moderator.

- Scott

I agree. Lets all step away from the keyboard and remember we support the same team. MartinUtd has been a great guy and is just asking a question.

[MartinUtd]

I think this is out of line, Dom. For starters, MartinUtd wasn't involved in the original discussion about "ultra" nonsense, and is generally a poster in good standing so far as I can tell. Secondly, you said people who insult RPB member should be banned, and then proceeded to insult him.

I think a deep breath needs to be taken here. MartinUtd, if you have concerns about the actions taken, as Jack said - please PM a moderator.

- Scott

Appreciated but I didn't interpret Domin8or's comments being directly at me but at the larger group of non paid members who complain. Maybe I'm wrong. but I understand where he's coming from. I'll save the rest of this thought for PM since member etiquette is not the name of the thread.

[SCF1908]

I don't agree. Those insulting RPBs and their leader in the RPB forum should be banned. You are in a minority on this one. When you are a paid member of this SG and your in good standing I might listen to you. Until then, you are just another oooltra-old-world-wanna-be who can't organize sufficiently to get your own message board and organization off the ground.

Go piss in your own yard.

Cool, I will pay for J. and me to be members. I can give a referral from a member in good standing if you want it.

When that issue is laid to rest and we are members, let's see you up your argument.

[DOMIN8R]

I think this is out of line, Dom. For starters, MartinUtd wasn't involved in the original discussion about "ultra" nonsense, and is generally a poster in good standing so far as I can tell. Secondly, you said people who insult RPB member should be banned, and then proceeded to insult him.

I think a deep breath needs to be taken here. MartinUtd, if you have concerns about the actions taken, as Jack said - please PM a moderator.

- Scott

You are right. After re-reading my post, I realize that I wasn't clear. I did not intend to insult anyone. I appologize to MartinUtd - this is what I meant to post.....

I don't agree, Martin. Those insulting RPBs and their leader in the RPB forum should be banned. You (Martin) are in a minority on this one. When you (J.) are a paid member of this SG and you're in good standing I might listen to you (J.). Until then, you (J.) are just another oooltra-old-world-wanna-be who can't organize sufficiently to get your (J.) own message board and organization off the ground.

Go piss in your own yard (J.).

Even so, clearly I let the emotions of the moment overtake me. I appologize to Martin. I was out of line. In the future, I'll step away from the keyboard and sleep on it.

I appreciate the reality check. Thanks, Scott.

[Phil]

Cool, I will pay for J. and me to be members. I can give a referral from a member in good standing if you want it.

When that issue is laid to rest and we are members, let's see you up your argument.

Actually we have a process that has been in place for some time that does not allow a person to simply pay to be a part of this group.

[SCF1908]

Actually we have a process that has been in place for some time that does not allow a person to simply pay to be a part of this group.


I am simply stating that if an argument is based on nothing more than "You are not a member" it's rather thin in my opinion. I have read the membership rules and I could easily find myself qualifying.

I am not here to tell you that you are doing a shit job when I have no idea what you have done, rather, just stating an opinion on smoke bombs and also emphasizing it's my opinion. Of course I only have experience from small football markets like Holland, Italy and Brazil as someone pointed out. ;)

[stuart.mac]

For the future, how does one go about getting tickets with the away support section rather than with the general crowd? I couldn't figure out before the game so I just got tickets in the section beside the support. not the same haha

[Phil]

For the future, how does one go about getting tickets with the away support section rather than with the general crowd? I couldn't figure out before the game so I just got tickets in the section beside the support. not the same haha

Due to rules with TICO we can only sell to members for sections that we buy.

[Roogsy]

There's drama in here and nobody invited me? I feel so unloved. :(

[AL-MO]

Can someone name an honest pro for the smoke bombs other than "atmosphere" or it being a part of football? Does it bring something to the game? We have hear people say their clothing was destroyed, fire almost started, people could have been injured. What good comes from it? Just wondering.

I bought at ticket in section 147 because I knew for sure I'd get a 5th row seat, rather than dealing with people stealing my seats, but here is a picture of the smoke bombs I got. Even from where we were, there was a couple minutes that it was hard to breath, can't imagine what it was like for the people in the heart of it.

http://i44.tinypic.com/153wps8.jpg

Nice pic.

[stuart.mac]

Okay because I live in Ottawa, I go to games in Toronto when I am home in Torontom, but for the most part the Montreal games are easiest for me to go to and I would rather sit with the entire support. So how would I go about geting tickets for May 2nd? Or the following away game.

[DOMIN8R]

Effen, Alx. Always stirring the shit.


LOL I can see your Cheshire cat smile now

[Shakes McQueen]

I am simply stating that if an argument is based on nothing more than "You are not a member" it's rather thin in my opinion. I have read the membership rules and I could easily find myself qualifying.

I am not here to tell you that you are doing a shit job when I have no idea what you have done, rather, just stating an opinion on smoke bombs and also emphasizing it's my opinion. Of course I only have experience from small football markets like Holland, Italy and Brazil as someone pointed out. ;)

I welcome anyone who wants to put forth a well thought out opinion in favour of smoke bombs and flares at games, even if I strongly disagree with it. What J. was ultimately banned for has nothing to do with that, and everything to do with being a derisive jerk towards the group responsible for owning and operating this forum, and especially it's President. Hopefully he learns something from it.

- Scott

[AL-MO]

Okay because I live in Ottawa, I go to games in Toronto when I am home in Torontom, but for the most part the Montreal games are easiest for me to go to and I would rather sit with the entire support. So how would I go about geting tickets for May 2nd? Or the following away game.

Just call up the FO (front office) for tickets and tell them you want to sit with the TFC supporters.

[AL-MO]

I welcome anyone who wants to put forth a well thought out opinion in favour of smoke bombs and flares at games, even if I strongly disagree with it. What J. was ultimately banned for has nothing to do with that, and everything to do with being a derisive jerk towards the group responsible for owning and operating this forum, and especially it's President. Hopefully he learns something from it.

- Scott

LOL.

[prizby]

Do I think smoke and flares add substance to displays and look pretty cool? Absolutely!

Would I like to see more of them? Absolutely!

Do I want to break MLS and stadium rules in order to enjoy these? Absolutely NOT!


Think about it for two seconds:

Would you rather use flares and smoke and then have Garber and MLS clamp down on Toronto away support like they did to Houston?

or

Would you rather be able to go to any and all away games, support the team with flags, banners, two-sticks, drums, singing etc?

Do you really want to be part of the small, small minority that ruin away game experiences for everyone else because MLS made a statement at the beginning of the season with Houston and I am willing to bet that if we weren't already on a short leash for past episodes, we are now going to be on a short leash.

I think smoke and flares are great, but I MUCH rather be able to go to away games and wave flags and hold 2-sticks and reveal banners and have a drum to keep chants to a beat then to RISK losing these and I really hope those that are inclined to light a flare or smoke think about the future and not so much the present

[stuart.mac]

Just call up the FO (front office) for tickets and tell them you want to sit with the TFC supporters.

Okay cool thanks!

[Shakes McQueen]

There's drama in here and nobody invited me? I feel so unloved. :(

I went to my roof and flashed the Roogsy Signal in the sky, but I guess you were on the can or something.

@AL-MO - Yeah, I know. Wishful thinking. This is the internet, after all.

- Scott

[AL-MO]

Until then, you (J.) are just another oooltra-old-world-wanna-be who can't organize sufficiently to get your (J.) own message board and organization off the ground.



Be careful what you wish for.



^ Now that is stirring the pot. :D

[Ryan1984]

Nothing pisses me off more then going to my seats and someone is in them. If games are GA then my ticket should say GA not have a section row and seat number on them. I have had some bad experiences with people saying an event is GA but others kick me out with there seat numbers. Then when i go to the seat on my ticket my group was escorted out of the supporters section and forced to sit elsewhere. This seem fair to anybody. Since then home or away I will sit where my tickets say. My suggestion is to contact the front offices around the league and get them to change away supporters sections to GA. If they do not don't get all pissed off if someone wants to sit in there assigned seat.

[Phil]

Do I think smoke and flares add substance to displays and look pretty cool? Absolutely!

Would I like to see more of them? Absolutely!

Do I want to break MLS and stadium rules in order to enjoy these? Absolutely NOT!




Think about it for two seconds:

Would you rather use flares and smoke and then have Garber and MLS clamp down on Toronto away support like they did to Houston?

or

Would you rather be able to go to any and all away games, support the team with flags, banners, two-sticks, drums, singing etc?

Do you really want to be part of the small, small minority that ruin away game experiences for everyone else because MLS made a statement at the beginning of the season with Houston and I am willing to bet that if we weren't already on a short leash for past episodes, we are now going to be on a short leash.

I think smoke and flares are great, but I MUCH rather be able to go to away games and wave flags and hold 2-sticks and reveal banners and have a drum to keep chants to a beat then to RISK losing these and I really hope those that are inclined to light a flare or smoke think about the future and not so much the present

Great post.... seriously.

[Oldtimer]

The charter is very specific... the RPB follows all local laws. Do we necessarily agree with all of them? Of course not.

Since it's part of the charter, I expect that all of the executive abide by that, just as I will. Nobody should be calling out anyone for upholding the document that we democratically adopted, anymore that a Prime Minister or a President should be criticized for following their country's constitution.

Those who are not members of our group, but guests on our board should understand that we will uphold our current charter until such time as the membership democratically changes it.

[DOMIN8R]

Just call up the FO (front office) for tickets and tell them you want to sit with the TFC supporters.

Well, we're going to have to bring an end to that - aren't we? We can't very well be expected to self-police when the barn doors are swung open. Thanks for the heads up, Alx.:poke:

[DOMIN8R]

Be careful what you wish for.


^ Now that is stirring the pot. :D

You would be doing us all a favour! What can we do to help?

[MartinUtd]

Well, we're going to have to bring an end to that - aren't we? We can't very well be expected to self-police when the barn doors are swung open. Thanks for the heads up, Alx.:poke:

Impossible to enforce though. How can you take responsibility when half the travelling support treats the section as GA.

[ryan]

Do I think smoke and flares add substance to displays and look pretty cool? Absolutely!

Would I like to see more of them? Absolutely!

Do I want to break MLS and stadium rules in order to enjoy these? Absolutely NOT!


Think about it for two seconds:

Would you rather use flares and smoke and then have Garber and MLS clamp down on Toronto away support like they did to Houston?

or

Would you rather be able to go to any and all away games, support the team with flags, banners, two-sticks, drums, singing etc?

Do you really want to be part of the small, small minority that ruin away game experiences for everyone else because MLS made a statement at the beginning of the season with Houston and I am willing to bet that if we weren't already on a short leash for past episodes, we are now going to be on a short leash.

I think smoke and flares are great, but I MUCH rather be able to go to away games and wave flags and hold 2-sticks and reveal banners and have a drum to keep chants to a beat then to RISK losing these and I really hope those that are inclined to light a flare or smoke think about the future and not so much the present


I think many rational supporters would be behind what you're saying here. Well put

[kodiakTFC]

Can't wait for May 2nd now :D.

[jazzy]

So did the people who brought and lit the smoke bombs in actually hold on to them or did they do the same pussy move they always do which is throw it and run?

^ this....actually they threw it and it landed at the feet of those around us , totally covering their clothes/faces/ and burning one guy's shirt ,.. not to mention the taste was in our lungs and throat the rest of the day!!!.......Hey if people want flares have a flare section and /or hold them brave lads instead of hiding and throwing them at , or where other supporters are......a perfect example is at the academy games where great supporters show up and simply warn everyone around them that there will be flares ...they don't hide them or throw them at anyone.....but own the flares themselves....and we who have bad breathing problems or simply don't want to be near them move......brilliant and PRO........unlike many I'm seeing lately.........hiding under crowd cover

[jazzy]

Does anyone actually care about the game and watching it,....just wondered, or is it a vehicle to establish penis size!......

[Yagbod]

I don't want to wade too deeply into this debate, but:

Remember those 70 or so 2-sticks that showed up in Montreal? I think we can all agree that they were pretty flipping cool. Am I right?!?

I honestly don't know who lit the smoke bombs or threw them. I really don't.

On Thursday night I spent about three hours helping to make those 2-sticks. The guys who organized that would probably be called Ultras and some of them might call themselves that as well. While I had to leave at 9:30 (married, old, early train) they stayed up until almost 4am working to get them done. Plus, they paid for this themselves.

Think of this before you disparage all Ultras and paint them all with the same libelous brush.

Or better yet, stand the fuck up and thank them for their efforts.

[jabbronies]

I don't want to wade too deeply into this debate, but:

Remember those 70 or so 2-sticks that showed up in Montreal? I think we can all agree that they were pretty flipping cool. Am I right?!?

I honestly don't know who lit the smoke bombs or threw them. I really don't.

On Thursday night I spent about three hours helping to make those 2-sticks. The guys who organized that would probably be called Ultras and some of them might call themselves that as well. While I had to leave at 9:30 (married, old, early train) they stayed up until almost 4am working to get them done. Plus, they paid for this themselves.

Think of this before you disparage all Ultras and paint them all with the same libelous brush.

Or better yet, stand the fuck up and thank them for their efforts.

Great points made here!

I don't think anyone calls into question the effort people are putting into these types of displays. Unfortunately it's the other behavior by people that ends up overshadowing these efforts.

The problem is, and seems to be the same ongoing issue, how do we support the team once we are in the stadium.

[jazzy]

I don't want to wade too deeply into this debate, but:

Remember those 70 or so 2-sticks that showed up in Montreal? I think we can all agree that they were pretty flipping cool. Am I right?!?

I honestly don't know who lit the smoke bombs or threw them. I really don't.


On Thursday night I spent about three hours helping to make those 2-sticks. The guys who organized that would probably be called Ultras and some of them might call themselves that as well. While I had to leave at 9:30 (married, old, early train) they stayed up until almost 4am working to get them done. Plus, they paid for this themselves.

Think of this before you disparage all Ultras and paint them all with the same libelous brush.

Or better yet, stand the fuck up and thank them for their efforts.

^this ....And I believe that if any one of them, that I know, used flares it was and would be always pro as mentioned in the above thread always considering others,..true supporters...and they did make the day making those banners "on their own"....the people throwing the flares were not I believe part of the so -called ultras??,...but independent .....

[Abou Sky]

Impossible to enforce though. How can you take responsibility when half the travelling support treats the section as GA.

Put up a sign at the stadium that it is not GA.

Have security tell people it is not GA.

I am not a fan of GA either, it just means the nastiest get to sit where they want and I don't really want to get in a fist fight over one square foot of real estate.

[Red CB Toronto]

Can't wait for May 2nd now :D.
I am too, should be a good one. While the Big O is not the ideal place to watch, I am making my way back down to MTL for the second of three planned TFC trips to Quebec this season. The one in June at Saputo will be great, looking forward to being outside, a grass pitch and good times.

[Abou Sky]

I don't give a crap if they play in the parking lot if they win.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

Away games have always, and will always be GA. Accept it.

uh no dude. because you say it, does not make it truth.

[RedRum]

uh no dude. because you say it, does not make it truth.

You are right - my opinion means little... but it was not an opinion I was expressing. Been to about 20 or so away games and every one of them was GA. Thus, GA is what away games are. One guy complaining on a website is not likely going to change that.

[SCF1908]

Don't be willfully obtuse. The use of smoke bombs and flares at football games has been going on overseas for a long time. People longing for such a hardcore "ultra" culture here, or people who think it looks cool, see that and want to recreate it.

Smoke bombs don't go with the sport of football like hand and glove, so it's pretty much an axiomatic statement that the people doing this are being influenced by a desired to emulate "old world" football culture. But this isn't the old country, for better and for worse.

- Scott


Obtuse? Get real.

There was a ridiculous generalization made, I pointed this out, he said he was correcting his post when I pointed out he couldn't know exactly who did what factually, we both were in agreement and left it at that.

Not reading the thread would be considered "Obtuse" in my opinion.

I do find it interesting - and especially arrogant and slightly xenophobic actually - that people are saying smoke is an old world phenomenon and it is not the Canadian way when in fact there are Canadians born and bred who like it and support it and those that were born overseas and like it are thus painted as not being Canadian, as if those born here have a better and more credible opinion about a topic than those that weren't.

As I read the thread, there is some rather anti-foreign sentiment going on here. I wonder where the line gets drawn?

[Oldtimer]

I do find it interesting - and especially arrogant and slightly xenophobic actually - that people are saying smoke is an old world phenomenon and it is not the Canadian way when in fact there are Canadians born and bred who like it and support it and those that were born overseas and like it are thus painted as not being Canadian, as if those born here have a better and more credible opinion about a topic than those that weren't.

As I read the thread, there is some rather anti-foreign sentiment going on here. I wonder where the line gets drawn?

Name a North American sport where the fans use smoke bombs or flares. NFL/CFL? Basketball? Baseball? Hockey? Lacrosse? Or if you want to get even more local to Canada, curling?
It's obvious that people are imitating what they see on TV. Why can't people be original? We know that MLS will come down heavy on smoke/flares.

Anyways, how is it oultra to throw the thing? They don't do that in Europe, and it can be very dangerous. Be a man and face up to the consequences if you are fighting for your "rights." I have yet to see that happen, even once.

[SCF1908]

The charter is very specific... the RPB follows all local laws. Do we necessarily agree with all of them? Of course not.



So it is illegal to be intoxicated in public in every jurisdiction in Canada. Are you suggesting the RPB follows that to a tee? I bet a pound to a penny you're not.

So then where is the line actually drawn?

[stuart.mac]

So it is illegal to be intoxicated in public in every jurisdiction in Canada. Are you suggesting the RPB follows that to a tee? I bet a pound to a penny you're not.

So then where is the line actually drawn?

Being drunk will only get you punished
Throwing smoke bombs will get the entire support punished.

See the difference?

[TOBOR !]

I'd rather not see people banned just for simply taking up an opposing view - and I know that's not quite what happened here - but if they are to be banned, I'd like to think they received proper warning....... Do we do that ? And if anyone's listening, rather than a straight out banning, perhaps a 24/48/168 hour cooling off period can be invoked instead.

[TOBOR !]

Concerning how one supports their team, no doubt we all have our preferences on how we choose to do that... I'd argue there are many who prefer to 'see' a certain type of support without participating in it. "Ultra" support is more aesthetic on the telly than any other kind, but if you're in the crowd it's also the most obnoxious. Not everyone who likes that type of support cares to be in the middle of it.

[TOBOR !]

Treating away trips as General Admission is a great way for people to hide in a crowd. It takes a method of policing and control away from the authorities - assigned seating. If I was planning on setting off smoke bombs and flares General Admission is something I'd advocate for.

[London]

^^^ funny, i chant and jump and wave a flag, yet i still see most of the match.

there is a drastic gap between "fan" and "supporter", it's just too bad "fans" want to be in the supporters sections and feel it's the same thing.

[SCF1908]

Being drunk will only get you punished
Throwing smoke bombs will get the entire support punished.

See the difference?

Not really, I think you are picking and choosing your poison. Drunk fans en masse does bring sanctions that affect the entire support, you can look at the alcohol bans in Europe that happen regularly that have nothing to do with smoke bombs but with intoxicated individuals not having sound judgement. I am not saying don't be drunk, I really believe strongly in live and let live, it's simply a matter of me having an opinion and voicing it in a semi-civilized manner. But from where I stand it's hypocritical, it is in the RPB charter to follow all local laws, yet some are defending interpretations of the local laws, and we have someone who saw an RPB let a smoke bomb off anyway.

If you don't think intoxication brings restrictions, check out the 500 level alcohol rules for tonight's Jays game.

[Phil]

In regards to GA seating, Montreal FO was very clear this was not the case but apprently they could not execute the plan they wanted.

As for the rest of this thread, thanks to those that really show why people hate this forum!

[TOBOR !]

^^^ funny, i chant and jump and wave a flag, yet i still see most of the match.

there is a drastic gap between "fan" and "supporter", it's just too bad "fans" want to be in the supporters sections and feel it's the same thing.

it's the classic scientific conundrum... by the very act of observing and experiencing something you change the very nature of it.

[Abou Sky]

Not really, I think you are picking and choosing your poison. Drunk fans en masse does bring sanctions that affect the entire support, you can look at the alcohol bans in Europe that happen regularly that have nothing to do with smoke bombs but with intoxicated individuals not having sound judgement. I am not saying don't be drunk, I really believe strongly in live and let live, it's simply a matter of me having an opinion and voicing it in a semi-civilized manner. But from where I stand it's hypocritical, it is in the RPB charter to follow all local laws, yet some are defending interpretations of the local laws, and we have someone who saw an RPB let a smoke bomb off anyway.

If you don't think intoxication brings restrictions, check out the 500 level alcohol rules for tonight's Jays game.

I think if started to see regular fights at games because of booze a lot of people would support some kind of restrictions.

Smoke by default does affect those around it that don't want anything to do with it. Booze not as much.

I like smoke too, but I also think it is fair for people not to like it. If BMO was smarter about stuff they would have an area that was OK to have smoke in and it would be known 'if you are in 1xx there will be smoke at the front.'

As for naming a north american sport with smoke: MLS Soccer.

I am pretty damn Canadian mixed blood, the only LEAGUE I really follow is MLS.

[Oldtimer]

As for naming a north american sport with smoke: MLS Soccer.



It was never a part of the NASL (I'm old enough to know), so it's dishonest to make the claim that it isn't copied from European TV, and it somehow organically sprang up without foreign influence, which is what I was responding to.

[London]

It was never a part of the NASL (I'm old enough to know), so it's dishonest to make the claim that it isn't copied from European TV, and it somehow organically sprang up without foreign influence, which is what I was responding to.


ultra support is on the rise, there is no denying that, MLS's big clubs all have ultra style of support and they are the talk of the league,portland is considered the best in MLs and they are always using flares and smoke, they chant for 120 strong and are visual at any opportunity.

If i had a choice between ultra style and what toronto has, id take portlands set up any day

[Red Rat]

This topic will never see the end.
Honestly just do what ever makes you happy without telling people what to do with their lives.
We will see how long it will last

[SCF1908]

I think if started to see regular fights at games because of booze a lot of people would support some kind of restrictions.

Smoke by default does affect those around it that don't want anything to do with it. Booze not as much.

I like smoke too, but I also think it is fair for people not to like it. If BMO was smarter about stuff they would have an area that was OK to have smoke in and it would be known 'if you are in 1xx there will be smoke at the front.'

As for naming a north american sport with smoke: MLS Soccer.

I am pretty damn Canadian mixed blood, the only LEAGUE I really follow is MLS.


I just wonder if those that don't like smoke have been contacting the club asking them to knock off their pre-game festivities or if it is another matter of picking and choosing?

[Oldtimer]

^ It will end when one of the oultras gets perma-banned from MLS stadiums. Then people will wake up. It will happen.

[Phil]

I don't see a lot of comment about the actual topic. Last warning, if the discussion continues to be about whose support is better then prepare for closure.

[stuart.mac]

Not really, I think you are picking and choosing your poison. Drunk fans en masse does bring sanctions that affect the entire support, you can look at the alcohol bans in Europe that happen regularly that have nothing to do with smoke bombs but with intoxicated individuals not having sound judgement. I am not saying don't be drunk, I really believe strongly in live and let live, it's simply a matter of me having an opinion and voicing it in a semi-civilized manner. But from where I stand it's hypocritical, it is in the RPB charter to follow all local laws, yet some are defending interpretations of the local laws, and we have someone who saw an RPB let a smoke bomb off anyway.

If you don't think intoxication brings restrictions, check out the 500 level alcohol rules for tonight's Jays game.

Aye and if as many people at the games had smoke bombs that were drunk they would have been banned years and years ago. Obviously its each individual supporters responsibility to watch their own actions, when smoke bombs are released by 1 or 2 people, it can ruin it for everyone (not only bans, but people saying their clothing was burned, they couldn't breath, up to bans of flags and instruments).

You want to talk about alcohol bans, its not the fact that people are drunk in public (that you pointed out as the crime) but rather the actions that occur WHEN they are drunk, such as violence, harassment, vandalism.

But setting off smoke bombs, sober or not, happens and its going to lead to further bans. Its against the rules so why bother doing it if it will only continue to put sanctions on what support can bring to the game.


As for the General Admission, I think if you are in someones seat who WANTS to be there, move, if not enjoy the game. Bottom line is there IS a seat for a reason, if you find people nice enough to let you squeeze in up front with all the fun than great, if not than maybe try and get tickets closer to the front, but if people paid for those tickets they have every right to be there.

[Fort York Redcoat]

GENERAL ADMITTANCE.

I'm for it. It's unfortunate that Montreal felt they needed to keep tabs on everyone and assumed the worst.

It was pretty strange to see security dealing with the aisles so much but it seemed to work. Trying to enforce seat assignment was a lost cause with that much security. They needed much more to enforce that.

[SCF1908]

I don't see a lot of comment about the actual topic. Last warning, if the discussion continues to be about whose support is better then prepare for closure.


I have stated only that I like the use of smoke bombs and happen to respect the opinions of those who don't and many of them have put very good reasons as to why not here, I would hope that my views are not being seen as a commentary on who has the better support of the team, rather than a specific issue with a specific opinion. I am not questioning the support of those that disagree with me by any means.

[jabbronies]

ultra support is on the rise, there is no denying that, MLS's big clubs all have ultra style of support and they are the talk of the league,portland is considered the best in MLs and they are always using flares and smoke, they chant for 120 strong and are visual at any opportunity.

If i had a choice between ultra style and what toronto has, id take portlands set up any day

there seems to be a lot of people who are quiet familiar with the Portland setup.

Can someone explain how they are allowed to use Pyro in the stands without reprimand from the league/team?

[maninb]

Identify those who throw smoke bombs and BAN THEM FOR LIFE!!! These morons are gonna seriously injure somebody if they aren't stopped!

[TOBOR !]

I think the issue of General Admission and type of support are connected.

What is the benefit of GA ? For like-minded supporters to group together and strengthen their overall effect.

If Ultra-style supporters are grouped in twos and threes, and scattered around a section, you'll likely as not never have to worry about flares and smoke bombs again. There's nowhere to hide.

However, you might get a better overall support as 'pockets' of supporters who sing along with chants, etc, will help spread the experience throughout.

[ryan]

As for the General Admission, I think if you are in someones seat who WANTS to be there, move, if not enjoy the game. Bottom line is there IS a seat for a reason, if you find people nice enough to let you squeeze in up front with all the fun than great, if not than maybe try and get tickets closer to the front, but if people paid for those tickets they have every right to be there.

I'm okay with that sort of stance myself.

I had a rather annoying incident during CCL SF. I had 2 pairs split up but wanted to sit all 4 together. Found a row, i think it was 18, in 116 (both my pairs were in 116), with 3 seats open, 2 taken, then 3 seats open. I asked the mid 30's couple to move one over one way or the other...they sternly declined. Ok..wtf. So we split up and stood around them...but they got mad at us talking across them.

So they assumed we weren't meant to be there and grabbed the passerby security to demand he checks our seats. Matter of fact one of my pairs was the end of the row, but my other pair was...front row 116. So he took us down there and hoofed out two people to give us our seats. Since it was about 20 mins into the match, we looked like a couple arseholes showing up late for the match kicking people out the front row as if we're the ones being anal about seating.

Bloody annoying..nobody even ended up coming to take any of those other vacant seats in that row either.


They had every right to those seats, I'm not oblivious to that,...just don't get the "OMG THE VELVET ROPE" mentality some people have about seating though.

[Ageroo]

Well no clue who lit the flare/smoke or whatever and decided to throw it...but my buddy's brand new white CMNT jersey signed by Kara Lang was burnt all up because of the nonsense. Seems like others had issues as well.....I understand what those who are PRO flares/smoke feel that it brings....but when you hear people getting burnt clothing ruined is it worth it?

Until the league says it is ok to use the stuff I think it shouldn't be used. And if they ever do.....it has to be completely controlled. People can't just let it off every which way....that leads to the idiots lighting and throwing it and my buddy's shirt getting burned. Nobody wants that I am sure.

I am neither for or against those who love or hate it.......

As for your comment SCF1908 about the clubs use of smoke.....I could care less if it is used or not used. But there is a big difference with their smoke and smoke let off in our supporters section. The clubs smoke is controlled.....huge difference.

Again....I am really on neither side of the debate, just offering up my opinion.

[TOBOR !]

At the Skydome I was a single ticket in 117, right behind the drum, and I was able to get to my seat. Probably because I was early and I was a single ticket. I doubt I'd have been able to get there if I was a party of five (see what I did there ?) without causing a stink.

I did see some instances where people were displaced by the GA process, but none seemed overly put out. In fact, I think most tended not to employ GA behaviour. Many RPBs (it seemed to me) were scattered about 117 and over into 118. So, for the CCL SF at least, it didn't really work, or wasn't really evident.

[TOBOR !]

On one hand GA makes the inspired portion of fans find each other but as the smarty robot Tobor mentions the much smaller mass of these people unencumbered by "fans, not supporters" around them makes them far more identifiable which is a hindrance if one does not wish to be accountable for their actions.

yes. sort of... I think... (can I buy a comma ?).

[Fort York Redcoat]

yes. sort of... I think... (can I buy a comma ?).

Yeah. I'll start that from scratch. BRB

[jazzy]

You are right - my opinion means little... but it was not an opinion I was expressing. Been to about 20 or so away games and every one of them was GA. Thus, GA is what away games are. One guy complaining on a website is not likely going to change that.

let me get this straight; Pekduck does ALL the work negotiating for tickets, getting the amazing prices, dealing with stubborn administrations who don't really want or need to see us....and after selling individually and accounting for all the $,....for US, he specifically states theses tickets are not GA!,......but one fan, who contributes , what ?......decides what is best for him....priceless

[pekduck]

there seems to be a lot of people who are quiet familiar with the Portland setup.

Can someone explain how they are allowed to use Pyro in the stands without reprimand from the league/team?

in short: licensed pyro who are members of the sg, designated spots, safety apparatus present, previously agreed timing (i.e. goals), sanctioned by FO; still have frictions since sometimes the pyro is trigger happy, but it's all in good nature over the west, after all, they gotta keep portland weird =)

however, they own their section, we don't. they have portland fire codes, not toronto's. unless you move to portland and join TA and abid laws and regulations there, what's kosher in one city, is not in toronto or elsewhere

nothing wrong with want to be portland, but you gotta be in portland...

[tfcleeds]

Well no clue who lit the flare/smoke or whatever and decided to throw it...but my buddy's brand new white CMNT jersey signed by Kara Lang was burnt all up because of the nonsense. Seems like others had issues as well.....I understand what those who are PRO flares/smoke feel that it brings....but when you hear people getting burnt clothing ruined is it worth it?The fact that the jersey got burned was bad enough. The fact it was signed by Kara Lang makes this offense especially grievous. Off with their heads (whoever threw the flare) I say.

[denime]

ultra support is on the rise, there is no denying that, MLS's big clubs all have ultra style of support and they are the talk of the league,portland is considered the best in MLs and they are always using flares and smoke, they chant for 120 strong and are visual at any opportunity.

If i had a choice between ultra style and what toronto has, id take portlands set up any day

No it's not,your passion and support for TFC is to be admired and one can only wish we have more supporters like that,however just because you do flares and smoke bombs you guys are not even U from Ultras.

To be Ultras is way of life,life that none of you have experienced here in N.America.You have to be ready to get "behind the bars" if it's needed physically hurt others,steal,smuggle stuff across the border and all other illegal things that will get you $$$ to finance banners,flares,trips,I doubt it any of you does that for the living,or to finance any TFC Support project.


If you want to do flares than you have to be ready to hold on them,like we do in Belgrade:

http://www.b92.net/news/pics/2010/10/15931970494cbf6861d3851627055867_368x274.jpg


and once you do that and many other Ultra things you have to be ready to get 2-5 years behind the bars,guy in red jacket is Bogdanov the one who stopped the game in Genova between Serbia and Italy.

http://www.b92.net/news/pics/2012/02/9685923164f28f66d9e7a9861211912_368x277.jpg


or like the leader of the Star's fan group "Ultra Boys", Marko Vuckovic Mare who was convicted in the First Instance Court to eight months in prison for inflicting serious bodily injury.

http://www.b92.net/news/pics/2012/03/31/7663342214f7648162019a959555443_orig.jpg


there you go 3 out of 4 in jail,that's what is called Ultra in "old Country"

You guys might look Ultras for Canadian/USA fan landscape,but in real life you are just passionate TFC supporters who go to work pay the bills and have no social problems or criminal records.

You all know that all 3 TFC major SG's do not support flares and smoke bombs and that's why some of you were kicked out from those SG's,some of you left on your own.
By doing what you guys did in Montreal will never unite all supporters and get us to the next level,it will only get worst.You guys need us more than we need you,you can't do nothing without RPB,U-sector and NEE,supporters are only strong when they have numbers,size matters when it comes to support,and you don't have it.

So how about we all chill out a bit with this Ultra nonsense and find the way to work together to get the best TFC support we can have it.

[London]

^^^ how about you learn something about me before you call me out on all this stuff.

do you know me, do you know what i do outside of TFC.

NO you do not, so dont' even start to tell me what i do or do not do.

Just because you say that I or my friends light smoke or flares saturday doesnt make it the truth.

[jaahuuu]

I was at my ticketed seat for the game, but I was there early enough that nobody else was there. I was standing with a few other people, one whose ticket was for the seat next to mine, one for a seat in the row infront of us and another somewhere in another section. Some people showed up later and wanted to sit in their tickets seats so the rest of us moved over/up/down so they could. It wasn't a big deal. That being said I've been to a few road games and have never before been at my ticketed seat, including the game at the Skydome. I was not at all shocked when this turned into GA, dispite being told that we would be required to stay at our ticketed seats, anybody that's been to an away game shouldn't have been shocked either.

It absolutely blows my mind that TFC supporters were showing up late to the O. This was the main reason that they traveled to another province (or country for some of us), what the hell was so important that they were late for the game?


I'm pissed that my jersey got ruined too, there was an incident with a Whopper at a Burger King on the 401 on the way home.:yum:

[Phil]

in short: licensed pyro who are members of the sg, designated spots, safety apparatus present, previously agreed timing (i.e. goals), sanctioned by FO; still have frictions since sometimes the pyro is trigger happy, but it's all in good nature over the west, after all, they gotta keep portland weird =)

however, they own their section, we don't. they have portland fire codes, not toronto's. unless you move to portland and join TA and abid laws and regulations there, what's kosher in one city, is not in toronto or elsewhere

nothing wrong with want to be portland, but you gotta be in portland...

Wow, we have to stop making sense here. People have to start looking at the situation here instead of wishing that they had someone else's benifits. We have a ton to be happy with and continue to improve upon but it seems a lot of people are caught up in envy and emulation instead of creativity and growth within our own rules.

It really comes off to me that some people will take issue with something no matter what. Can't have flares? we want them! Can't have GA? We want it!

[Furtado91]

Instead of flares could we just have like really bright neon sticks or something? sorry if it sounds stupid, but if we had a bunch of like red neon sticks during an evening game, I think it would look cool, and its a safer alternative. my point is if we really want to put on a show, there are always alternatives to showcasing our support for this team. Just my 2 cents im sure we could come up with some idea.

[TOBOR !]

^^^ how about you learn something about me before you call me out on all this stuff.

do you know me, do you know what i do outside of TFC.

NO you do not, so dont' even start to tell me what i do or do not do.

Just because you say that I or my friends light smoke or flares saturday doesnt make it the truth.

I don't think he's saying you lit the smoke bombs. I think he's saying you're not an Ultra as the term is typically understood around the world.

Can I coin 'Fauxltra' (pron. foal-tra) for such use ?

[London]

^^ i dont want to be an ultra, but "modern"ultra style is on the rise

[Phil]

^^ i dont want to be an ultra, but "modern"ultra style is on the rise

Can we get a definition on that?

From where I stand its looks like "modern" ultra just means drop and hide.

[Abou Sky]

I'm okay with that sort of stance myself.

I had a rather annoying incident during CCL SF. I had 2 pairs split up but wanted to sit all 4 together. Found a row, i think it was 18, in 116 (both my pairs were in 116), with 3 seats open, 2 taken, then 3 seats open. I asked the mid 30's couple to move one over one way or the other...they sternly declined. Ok..wtf. So we split up and stood around them...but they got mad at us talking across them.

So they assumed we weren't meant to be there and grabbed the passerby security to demand he checks our seats. Matter of fact one of my pairs was the end of the row, but my other pair was...front row 116. So he took us down there and hoofed out two people to give us our seats. Since it was about 20 mins into the match, we looked like a couple arseholes showing up late for the match kicking people out the front row as if we're the ones being anal about seating.

Bloody annoying..nobody even ended up coming to take any of those other vacant seats in that row either.


They had every right to those seats, I'm not oblivious to that,...just don't get the "OMG THE VELVET ROPE" mentality some people have about seating though.

I think there is a 'happy middle'

I wasn't there but anyone who would say "No, we want to be right here not three seats down" is a jerk. I have traded 'down' with people to sit with friends and usually people are OK with that.

That said, I am showing up with my son to most games. I have had MANY MORE lovely people move as soon as I show up saying 'are these your seats?' and I simply say, 'ya but there are some a row in front so sit with your friends but I might ask for them'

OTOH I have also had a few asses refuse me my seats when I show up 20 mins late and I would have to go back 10+ rows to get any seats. Others around quite quickly said 'just go to your seats' and 'had my back' and people moved.

Like I said earlier, GA can mean that the people most willing to be jerks and push to the front get the 'best' seats. (I don't like the front because you can't watch play unfold properly)

ALL THAT SAID. I know the Voyageurs tix for CMNT games are GA but know that going in and I am cool with it. So I guess it is more about communication than anything else.

[TOBOR !]

okay - so maybe 'Nultra' is a more appropriate term (pron. 'Nooltra'). Definition : New Ultra. A supporter who displays all of the non-violent aspects of Global Ultra Culture, and none of the violent.

[Abou Sky]

Instead of flares could we just have like really bright neon sticks or something? sorry if it sounds stupid, but if we had a bunch of like red neon sticks during an evening game, I think it would look cool, and its a safer alternative. my point is if we really want to put on a show, there are always alternatives to showcasing our support for this team. Just my 2 cents im sure we could come up with some idea.

ROFLMAO!

'Glow sticks man, trippy'

Eek, the memories!

Sorry man, but that is uber lame.

[Phil]

okay - so maybe 'Nultra' is a more appropriate term (pron. 'Nooltra'). Definition : New Ultra. A supporter who displays all of the non-violent aspects of Global Ultra Culture, and none of the violent.

Accountability is still missing from the equation. Otherwise cool.

[Huyton]

I don't want to wade too deeply into this debate, but:

Remember those 70 or so 2-sticks that showed up in Montreal? I think we can all agree that they were pretty flipping cool. Am I right?!?

I honestly don't know who lit the smoke bombs or threw them. I really don't.

On Thursday night I spent about three hours helping to make those 2-sticks. The guys who organized that would probably be called Ultras and some of them might call themselves that as well. While I had to leave at 9:30 (married, old, early train) they stayed up until almost 4am working to get them done. Plus, they paid for this themselves.

Think of this before you disparage all Ultras and paint them all with the same libelous brush.

Or better yet, stand the fuck up and thank them for their efforts.

I had a great time in Montreal. I'd like to thank everyone involved, from those people purchasing and distributing the tickets to others who stayed up for hours making all the two sticks.

Thanks to everyone who dealt with either Front Office and those who got the message out about how to get in the stadium.

Your hard work was, and is, very much appreciated.


Here's my take on some of the things I've read so far:

I sit, or stand, in, or at, my seat. It does not matter what the "unwritten" rule is.

If your ticket does not have General Availability on it and someone else is in it, they are wrong.

If supporters sections are General Availability, then I'll get to the stadium two hours before the game and be the first in line to get in and just take whatever seat I like. Doesn't matter that you've taken time off work to go to several relocations to get just the seat you wanted. I'll just buy a ticket before the game and take yours.


As for the flares and the smoke bombs...they are forbidden. If you choose to disobey the law you should be prepared to pay the penalty. And that should include the cost of any ruined shirts. I saw several people wearing shirts that players had signed. I'd be devastated if somebody ruined mine because the coward liked to see smoke. Particularly if they tried to absolve themselves of any blame because smoke bombs are normal in stadiums thousands of kilometres away.

Tell you what...if you let off a smoke bomb or flare and Security comes looking for you, explain to them that because you've seen or done this somewhere else and that the rules are now different for you. You should also be prepared for them to disagree, and if they do, then you should pay the penalty.

It is that simple.

[London]

Can we get a definition on that?

From where I stand its looks like "modern" ultra just means drop and hide.

come find me in the supporters section and you can see.

Ive broken many rules and have never hid from security

[zeelaw]

Away games have always, and will always be GA. Accept it.
This, it's one of the best part of away games.

[Abou Sky]

I have to wonder what this thread would look like if we won... methinks not so much acrimony would be present about either GA, Smoke or who is 'ultra enough' etc.

[Phil]

come find me in the supporters section and you can see.

Ive broken many rules and have never hid from security

Hey no doubt you live by a very strict code. To bad others don't.

[jazzy]

No it's not,your passion and support for TFC is to be admired and one can only wish we have more supporters like that,however just because you do flares and smoke bombs you guys are not even U from Ultras.

To be Ultras is way of life,life that none of you have experienced here in N.America.You have to be ready to get "behind the bars" if it's needed physically hurt others,steal,smuggle stuff across the border and all other illegal things that will get you $$$ to finance banners,flares,trips,I doubt it any of you does that for the living,or to finance any TFC Support project.


If you want to do flares than you have to be ready to hold on them,like we do in Belgrade:

http://www.b92.net/news/pics/2010/10/15931970494cbf6861d3851627055867_368x274.jpg


and once you do that and many other Ultra things you have to be ready to get 2-5 years behind the bars,guy in red jacket is Bogdanov the one who stopped the game in Genova between Serbia and Italy.

http://www.b92.net/news/pics/2012/02/9685923164f28f66d9e7a9861211912_368x277.jpg


or like the leader of the Star's fan group "Ultra Boys", Marko Vuckovic Mare who was convicted in the First Instance Court to eight months in prison for inflicting serious bodily injury.

http://www.b92.net/news/pics/2012/03/31/7663342214f7648162019a959555443_orig.jpg


there you go 3 out of 4 in jail,that's what is called Ultra in "old Country"

You guys might look Ultras for Canadian/USA fan landscape,but in real life you are just passionate TFC supporters who go to work pay the bills and have no social problems or criminal records.

You all know that all 3 TFC major SG's do not support flares and smoke bombs and that's why some of you were kicked out from those SG's,some of you left on your own.
By doing what you guys did in Montreal will never unite all supporters and get us to the next level,it will only get worst.You guys need us more than we need you,you can't do nothing without RPB,U-sector and NEE,supporters are only strong when they have numbers,size matters when it comes to support,and you don't have it.

So how about we all chill out a bit with this Ultra nonsense and find the way to work together to get the best TFC support we can have it.
^
well put,.......BUT don't pick on London , pick on those who did the deeds ,..again London and the known "oolras" FFS,.....do not act carelessly.....it IS the cowardly independents ,that are shits reading this forum who are very happy eveeryone is fighting, not the known faces that we've been friends with , shared drinks with,..we live in a the greatest, free country in the world......lets enjoy it......creating new support, instead of following others.

[Barbarez]

if only some of you were as enthusiastic in the stands as you are with bitching on forums post mortem muahaha

RPB for life

[TOBOR !]

Accountability is still missing from the equation. Otherwise cool.

quite right.

The Nultra walks the line between wanting to support their team 'authentically' and breaking local bylaws.

To this end the few will likely end up doing both, gaining the disapproval of both Ultra and non-Ultras alike as they duck and hide.

[Furtado91]

ROFLMAO!

'Glow sticks man, trippy'

Eek, the memories!

Sorry man, but that is uber lame.

no need to apologize dude, My point being is we have to make do with what we have. as stupid as the suggestion was, at least it would be something even the members kids could get into. if not glow sticks im sure there are other alternatives, instead of seeing the same bloody threads about ultra vs non ultra use that energy to get around the current problem we have. instead of saying oh we can't do what they do, why don't we start something new instead of something that EVERYONE does? as crazy as the idea is, we have a big population which is great in the sense of having many ideas to work around this issue.

[JavierMartini]

Let's get terraces in the south end with general admittance. Please move the wheel chair section!

[denime]

I did not call personally you out in my post at all,I apologizes if it came out like that.


^^^ how about you learn something about me before you call me out on all this stuff.

do you know me, do you know what i do outside of TFC.

NO you do not, so dont' even start to tell me what i do or do not do.

Just because you say that I or my friends light smoke or flares saturday doesnt make it the truth.



I don't think he's saying you lit the smoke bombs. I think he's saying you're not an Ultra as the term is typically understood around the world.

It's exactly what TTG said.

[Fort York Redcoat]

if only some of you were as enthusiastic in the stands as you are with bitching on forums post mortem muahaha

RPB for life

Welcome to the forum Barbarez.

[TOBOR !]

I don't see anything wrong with what Furts is suggesting.

Imagine if we did up a huge TIFO with red glowsticks... go to yer dollar store and buy up all the red glow sticks.. etc. That would be both awesome and within regulations.

Sure, we're not all brandishing flamethrowers, but as cool as that might look on TV or sound in theory, I'm not sure I'd want to be part of it.

Anway, surely glow sticks are part of Nultra Culture ?

[TOBOR !]

Welcome to the forum Barbarez.

Barbarez is having a laff.

[denime]

if only some of you were as enthusiastic in the stands as you are with bitching on forums post mortem muahaha

RPB for life


welcome back,

I was wondering if I had started in Montreal the FC railroader song "e da me vidi babooo,da se opjiam da napijam 7 jegera" how many would follow? ;)

[Barbarez]

not me denime i wasn;t in Montreal :facepalm:

[Red Rat]

Now there is a name that I haven't seen in a while

[Barbarez]

Barbarez is having a laff.
I had to pay off a certain rpb member to let me back on

RPB 4 Life

[London]

^^ I never once refered to myself as ultra, "european ultras" have no place in north america.

this term was placed on us by alot of the people around here,example #1 (OOOOOOOltra) we are just trying to bring the style of support that WE grew up watching.

we do not engage in battling security or police or other supporters,

we simply bring a european style of support in the stands, it does not mean that we are trying to replicate old world style or anything like that.

as a child i would have tapes sent to me from italy so i could watch matches almost a week after they occured, it was the only way to see them play, over the years i fell in love with "euro style stadium support" , so that is what i know and bring with me to every match.

When the team is down, you build them up, when they are up you raise them higher, i give as much effort as i feel the players should- 90 minutes

[Yagbod]

With respect to those who organize the dispensation of tickets, I think that the GA problem can be mostly fixed with just a little more planning.

As a member of the banner team and one of those people who consistently wave the larger flags I know that we need to be in key positions in the crowd to a) maximize effect and b) be able to wave the flags in a way that disrupts the sightlines of the fewest people. If, for games that at stipulated as non-GA, we can allocate the seats to the flag wavers and those setting up the displays in such a way that they don't have 'invade' someone else's seat, I think we solve some of the problem.

Perhaps we can get Fort York Redcoat to work with the ticket folks to get at least some of that ironed out before the tickets are sent. It is a huge ask and will not solve the problem completely, but it will be a good start.

My seats were way back there and I was one the 'invaders' because I found an good area for waving that had no one in it. If this was planned out ahead of time it would avoid any possible friction.

Finally, please don't suggest that anyone can wave the flags. There are rules and respect needed that most people forget in their haze of whatever. We've had that debate before.

Just a thought.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Let's get terraces in the south end with general admittance. Please move the wheel chair section!

You think that the entire south wants to stand? That's a pretty optimistic view, Javier.

[Bluenose13]

I had to pay off a certain rpb member to let me back on

RPB 4 LifeThanks for the $20 :drinking:

[Abou Sky]

I don't see anything wrong with what Furts is suggesting.

Imagine if we did up a huge TIFO with red glowsticks... go to yer dollar store and buy up all the red glow sticks.. etc. That would be both awesome and within regulations.

Sure, we're not all brandishing flamethrowers, but as cool as that might look on TV or sound in theory, I'm not sure I'd want to be part of it.

Anway, surely glow sticks are part of Nultra Culture ?

eek... every time I read 'Nultra' I cringe.

Thinking about it, I could totally see Ricketts diving in front of the South Stands and getting pelted by 1000 glow sticks and then having glow sticks get banned... Defo be funny to see though.

[SCF1908]

I had to pay off a certain rpb member to let me back on

RPB 4 Life


Greetings "Uncle Barbarez" hahahaha

[David_Oliveira]

^^ I never once refered to myself as ultra, "european ultras" have no place in north america.

this term was placed on us by alot of the people around here,example #1 (OOOOOOOltra) we are just trying to bring the style of support that WE grew up watching.

we do not engage in battling security or police or other supporters,

we simply bring a european style of support in the stands, it does not mean that we are trying to replicate old world style or anything like that.

as a child i would have tapes sent to me from italy so i could watch matches almost a week after they occured, it was the only way to see them play, over the years i fell in love with "euro style stadium support" , so that is what i know and bring with me to every match.

When the team is down, you build them up, when they are up you raise them higher, i give as much effort as i feel the players should- 90 minutes

This is what we should strive for. The kind of support that London describes is what we need to be striving for. We should bot be putting anyone down for supporting the team in their way. This is the downfall of living in a multicultural society. People will be doing things differently. People need ti stop thinking their style of support is better than the other. Personally, I try to do what London describes. I am pro smoke but since it is illegal, I won't be lighting anything. I just hate how divisive people are doing right now. We all support TFC so why all this hate towards each other?

[adamdz]

I don't see anything wrong with what Furts is suggesting.

Imagine if we did up a huge TIFO with red glowsticks... go to yer dollar store and buy up all the red glow sticks.. etc. That would be both awesome and within regulations.

Sure, we're not all brandishing flamethrowers, but as cool as that might look on TV or sound in theory, I'm not sure I'd want to be part of it.

Anway, surely glow sticks are part of Nultra Culture ?

Glowsticks have actually been tried before (season 2?) and didn't go over very well. For one they are not very visible under the lights of the stadium. Secondly they were put on a rope, so people would not end up throwing them on the field, limiting any mobility with them (I don't recall if this was a stipulation of the FO for using them, or something that was self implemented by the group). In the end they had little to no effect during the game. Good experiment, no result.

[Fort York Redcoat]

With respect to those who organize the dispensation of tickets, I think that the GA problem can be mostly fixed with just a little more planning.

As a member of the banner team and one of those people who consistently wave the larger flags I know that we need to be in key positions in the crowd to a) maximize effect and b) be able to wave the flags in a way that disrupts the sightlines of the fewest people. If, for games that at stipulated as non-GA, we can allocate the seats to the flag wavers and those setting up the displays in such a way that they don't have 'invade' someone else's seat, I think we solve some of the problem.

Perhaps we can get Fort York Redcoat to work with the ticket folks to get at least some of that ironed out before the tickets are sent. It is a huge ask and will not solve the problem completely, but it will be a good start.

My seats were way back there and I was one the 'invaders' because I found an good area for waving that had no one in it. If this was planned out ahead of time it would avoid any possible friction.

Finally, please don't suggest that anyone can wave the flags. There are rules and respect needed that most people forget in their haze of whatever. We've had that debate before.

Just a thought.

This is something that is best left to distribution staying simple and letting common sense apply. This is usually how things work naturally. The most specific the ticket team should get is whether they use the top of the pile or the bottom. This situation, for this game, all the complaints should be aimed at Impact FO. While I appreciate their co-operation on the day (security did a good job considering how bad it could have been) it was there lack of leniency on GA that forced the discussion we're having.

If we were left to our own devices it would have worked organically that those who didn't want to be active could move back or as close to the action as they wished and avoided burnt shirts. It was a real advantage to smoke bombers to be able to move around so freely since the support was spread out. I realize that was strategic. I think it took away from support on the day and it turned into a "supporters on tour" Once split, the drums were ineffectual.

It was a unique situation overall. We won't get those numbers to Montreal until they use the O for something more special than a regular season match.

[Phil]

Glowsticks have actually been tried before (season 2?) and didn't go over very well. For one they are not very visible under the lights of the stadium. Secondly they were put on a rope, so people would not end up throwing them on the field, limiting any mobility with them (I don't recall if this was a stipulation of the FO for using them, or something that was self implemented by the group). In the end they had little to no effect during the game. Good experiment, no result.

Yup, I recall the attempt and it not working well at all. Visibility was a major issue.

[SCF1908]

There are some handheld electric strobes that might actually look good if there were enough of them in a cluster and they are relatively inexpensive as well.

[Furtado91]

So if not the glowstick idea then like I mentioned earlier, lets come up with something else. lets see what we have to work with and work around that. im sure there are other things that could be used. I cannot think of any off the top of my head but, if we got together and had a brainstorm im sure we could come up with something. there are some creative people in this group and that's awesome, lets use that to our advantage.

[London]

There are some handheld electric strobes that might actually look good if there were enough of them in a cluster and they are relatively inexpensive as well.


i currently have 4 or 5 of them, to be honest they dont look too effective unless they are in smoke ( ohh the irony LOL)

[SCF1908]

i currently have 4 or 5 of them, to be honest they dont look too effective unless they are in smoke ( ohh the irony LOL)


LOL, I know they are used in smoke, wasn't sure how they look without, wasn't going to bring up the smoke again hahahahahaha.

[Furtado91]

what about something with a shiny surface so that the sun reflects off it and it shows off well? if we had something like tin foil for example, that thing would stand out. maybe there's something thats similar to that we could use for like a display or something without blinding our players? i dont know im just trying to get the idea train a rolling.

[Fort York Redcoat]

This is what we should strive for. The kind of support that London describes is what we need to be striving for. We should bot be putting anyone down for supporting the team in their way. This is the downfall of living in a multicultural society. People will be doing things differently. People need ti stop thinking their style of support is better than the other. Personally, I try to do what London describes. I am pro smoke but since it is illegal, I won't be lighting anything. I just hate how divisive people are doing right now. We all support TFC so why all this hate towards each other?

Simply put David, the problem is a respect issue. People don't want to be forced into support one way or the other.

Here's the 2 extremes:

1. Don't tell me to sit down and shut up.
2. Don't drop a flare or smoke, run away, and leave me to breath in your mess while you ruin my clothes.

GA helps with that but again, it was really only this game where the GA was in question.

[BC101]

First post in a bit... I was in MTL and frankly I was able to get to my seats. All I did was ask politely the dude who was sitting/standing/jumping in the area where my seat was to slide over a bit and he did. I did notice however people being more confrontational about it. Which is where I think the topic(Or what was the topic) of this thread comes in. General admittance et al. I've only been on a few away trips with TFC like MAYBE 5? or 6? but i've gone on many more with the club which shall not be named, and then until now GA has never been an issue. I like the way we do it where just go where ever as long as you're there to support. Or well how we used to do it? I don't think it'd have been such a big deal if peeps just asked to squeeze in just say "I don't mind if you stay but my seat is here just squeeze down a bit please..." No problem?

As for the sub topic which has started... I for one didn't mind the smoke and i was right in the midst of it. However I can understand some might find it and flares undesirable, They smell they can burn if you're unfortunate enough to be touched by one and they can sting the eyes, However i like it it adds something extra something special to the crowd. If done safely. Someone said that in Europe they hold them up which is true, I'd have no probs if the Adamzzzzzzz and fam held them up and whatever. Its against MLS rules but so is tossing rolls of streamers at players....

[Abou Sky]

There are some handheld electric strobes that might actually look good if there were enough of them in a cluster and they are relatively inexpensive as well.

I think most phones have a strobe option on them.

[BeachTory]

Thanks to all the organizers who put in the time and effort to make these trips so memorable. I went a la carte, so even though I wouldn't normally switch seats i was in 255, the section over, beside 4 scarf wearing Montrealers. they were not too impressed to be so close to the TFC support. They were likely quite happy to see me move over into more 'friendly' seats. That said, i would have kept moving if I was in a seat where the ticket owners showed up.

toughest part of game was the point blank save on Koef - that kind of stuff fills one with what might have been's...

Highlights of support moments for me. The smiles between the security and police when they heard some of the chants and songs - esp 'All we are saying..'

By the way - the Porter sale, promo code sweet, ends today (i think)
Montreal
Boston
New York
Chicago
DC ( May 19 long weekend-already booked for that one)

[4evared]

O.K. I have given myself 48 hours to cool down and take stock of our experience in Montreal.

Let's start from the beginning.

Travel to the stadium via subway with all of us gathering in one spot away from the Montreal fans. Well done Montreal FO.

March to the stadium en masse. Incident free. Well done both sets of fans

Access into the stadium via one door. Good enough

Concession stands very busy to begin with. Oh well, no big problem for me.

General admission seemed to be the order of the day. Everyone that gets involved big time, all the time, seemed to congregate near the front of our sections, which is the norm for away games. To be expected.

My seats, 30 of us (12 of them under the age of 15) were in the 1rst 2 rows of 259. This worked out well for us as we were far enough away from the normally intense area at the front for us to enjoy the game without putting our kids into the thick of the action in the stands. Pekduck was aware of the kids with us, and if he 'put' us in at area, 'Thanks mate', as this is where we wanted to be.

Smoke bombs go off in our combined sections. First thoughts are we as a group are going to pay for that, and I hope no one gets hurt or there is no damage.

Second half starts and the Capo comes up to our section and parks himself and the drums right beside us. Hey no problem with that. Better acoustics for the drums, our section was really quite loud and involved. Whatever the reason, we just squished up a bit and made room for them and a few more people that came along with them.

Security were visible but quite subtle and from what I saw they went about their work without being heavy handed or in our faces.

Now I am entering into an incident that has me fuming. For the person who lit the smoke bomb off in the second row of Section 259, was it your intention to set it off and throw it in the direction of my wife and my 14 year old daughter? They both were completely unaware of what was happening, tried to move quickly and stumbled in the tight confines of our now busy section.

What if she fell? What if she fell on the smoke bomb? It would have scarred her without question. It left scorch marks on the concrete floor. Do you ever ask yourself how your actions will affect others. Particularly when you are the only ones who know what is about to happen? Can't you give any warning to those around you as to what is about to happen? Or even, just be a man with balls and stand there and hold it yourselves? Or even better, be a bigger man and fucking PM me with an apology, or even better, come up to me when you next see me and apologize in person for putting my wife and daughter in jepardy, just so you can behave in a particular way.

With all this security that was put in place, I didn't think that it would be our own fans (or supporters whatever you want to call yourselves) that would be the ones that my family had to be protected from.

[TOBOR !]

what about something with a shiny surface so that the sun reflects off it and it shows off well? if we had something like tin foil for example, that thing would stand out. maybe there's something thats similar to that we could use for like a display or something without blinding our players? i dont know im just trying to get the idea train a rolling.

doves. flocks of doves.

[Whoop]

I wasn't in Montreal this weekend, but are the tickets in 112 distributed for the CMNT matches at BMO usually GA?

The problem I find is that when you have larger groups ie. Montreal/SkyDome matches where you people aren't on the boards you'll get more issues.

But as pointed out by many others, every road trip I've been on (TFC/CMNT) the seating has always been GA.

[Phil]

I wasn't in Montreal this weekend, but are the tickets in 112 distributed for the CMNT matches at BMO usually GA?

The problem I find is that when you have larger groups ie. Montreal/SkyDome matches where you people aren't on the boards you'll get more issues.

But as pointed out by many others, every road trip I've been on (TFC/CMNT) the seating has always been GA.

It normally is, but the 8 page .pdf that Montreal sent us, and Pekduck buying all seats on his CC, Montreal FO demanded it not be GA. Seems their staff had no clue on this.

[BC101]

It normally is, but the 8 page .pdf that Montreal sent us, and Pekduck buying all seats on his CC, Montreal FO demanded it not be GA. Seems their staff had no clue on this.
It'd take an extraordinary amount of effort on securities part anywhere to make sure 1000+ people were in their proper seats. Especially when they arrive enmasse. I'd go as far to say it'd be unreasonable to ask them to do so.
I just think this topic is blown way out of proportion, There was more problems at Skydome when our own supporters were fighting each other in my section than there was because of GA in MTL.

[David_Oliveira]

Simply put David, the problem is a respect issue. People don't want to be forced into support one way or the other.

Here's the 2 extremes:

1. Don't tell me to sit down and shut up.
2. Don't drop a flare or smoke, run away, and leave me to breath in your mess while you ruin my clothes.

GA helps with that but again, it was really only this game where the GA was in question.

Why is it that people can't agree to disagree? People will support in different ways. I understand people don't want to be stuck in the smoke cloud or don't want to suffer any damages or injuries and that is perfectly fine. The pro smoke people want to light off the smoke and, if they are willing to suffer the consequences, that should be fine too. I think those that lit off the smoke should have let others around know about it. When flares and smoke have been lit in the past (ie. marches to BMO) people let others around know that it was going to happen. Can we just make this status quot going forward? IF you are going to light anything, you do it at your own risk and let people around you know. I think that this could be a major solution to this issue. People are going to do it no matter what (and will get punished if caught). We just need to find a solution so issues don't arise. A code of conduct needs to be established.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Now I am entering into an incident that has me fuming. For the person who lit the smoke bomb off in the second row of Section 259, was it your intention to set it off and throw it in the direction of my wife and my 14 year old daughter? They both were completely unaware of what was happening, tried to move quickly and stumbled in the tight confines of our now busy section.

What if she fell? What if she fell on the smoke bomb? It would have scarred her without question. It left scorch marks on the concrete floor. Do you ever ask yourself how your actions will affect others. Particularly when you are the only ones who know what is about to happen? Can't you give any warning to those around you as to what is about to happen? Or even, just be a man with balls and stand there and hold it yourselves? Or even better, be a bigger man and fucking PM me with an apology, or even better, come up to me when you next see me and apologize in person for putting my wife and daughter in jepardy, just so you can behave in a particular way.

With all this security that was put in place, I didn't think that it would be our own fans (or supporters whatever you want to call yourselves) that would be the ones that my family had to be protected from.

I've watched the progression of this drop and run mindset and I hope those responsible see what can happen

It's come to this where the decision to watch football the way you want was taken from you. I'm sorry for that. I can only say that next time we can try to make it more safe and the different support more segregated.

^This kind of story is not worth it.

The hard work on banners looked great and IMO that one decision just tainted the whole display aspect of the game.

[Whoop]

It normally is, but the 8 page .pdf that Montreal sent us, and Pekduck buying all seats on his CC, Montreal FO demanded it not be GA. Seems their staff had no clue on this.

Ok.

Carry on.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Can we just make this status quot going forward? IF you are going to light anything, you do it at your own risk and let people around you know. I think that this could be a major solution to this issue. People are going to do it no matter what (and will get punished if caught). We just need to find a solution so issues don't arise. A code of conduct needs to be established.

Lighting flares and smoke is illegal in our stadium. If one were to announce their intentions that is unwanted accountability. Risking harm upon others should never be an option to avoid responsibility for ones actions.

[tfcfan2011]

So it is illegal to be intoxicated in public in every jurisdiction in Canada. Are you suggesting the RPB follows that to a tee? I bet a pound to a penny you're not.

So then where is the line actually drawn?


Being drunk will only get you punished
Throwing smoke bombs will get the entire support punished.

See the difference?


just saying... i havent seen a beer guy in the stands in like, 3 years...

[stuart.mac]

just saying... i havent seen a beer guy in the stands in like, 3 years...
but in Montreal there were lots, right up to the 90th minute. Small beers and they were expensive, but they were available all game, you could have got hammered if you chose to.

[__wowza]

Why is it that people can't agree to disagree? People will support in different ways. I understand people don't want to be stuck in the smoke cloud or don't want to suffer any damages or injuries and that is perfectly fine. The pro smoke people want to light off the smoke and, if they are willing to suffer the consequences, that should be fine too. I think those that lit off the smoke should have let others around know about it. When flares and smoke have been lit in the past (ie. marches to BMO) people let others around know that it was going to happen. Can we just make this status quot going forward? IF you are going to light anything, you do it at your own risk and let people around you know. I think that this could be a major solution to this issue. People are going to do it no matter what (and will get punished if caught). We just need to find a solution so issues don't arise. A code of conduct needs to be established.


i think this is an overly optimistic outlook. you'd be hard pressed to find someone who would look around and ask everyone, and still.. what if someone said no? they went through all of the trouble of bringing it in there, i don't picture them moving a few times or just tucking it away for the next match. on top of that, you'd pretty much be asking everyone around you if they would mind you doing something that will get you banned from BMO, i doubt people would be that quick to identify themselve potentially hurting anyone around you.

[4evared]

Why is it that people can't agree to disagree? People will support in different ways. I understand people don't want to be stuck in the smoke cloud or don't want to suffer any damages or injuries and that is perfectly fine. The pro smoke people want to light off the smoke and, if they are willing to suffer the consequences, that should be fine too. I think those that lit off the smoke should have let others around know about it. When flares and smoke have been lit in the past (ie. marches to BMO) people let others around know that it was going to happen. Can we just make this status quot going forward? IF you are going to light anything, you do it at your own risk and let people around you know. I think that this could be a major solution to this issue. People are going to do it no matter what (and will get punished if caught). We just need to find a solution so issues don't arise. A code of conduct needs to be established.


Are you serious? Even after what you read in my post, you are still willing to put other fans at risk of injury and property damage?
There is a code of conduct in place. No flares or smoke bombs, certainly at BMO and in Montreal.

Why don't you hold it in your own hands if a code of conduct needs to be established. Then you will also be punished also. Win win situation as far as I am concerned.

[Roogsy]

O.K. I have given myself 48 hours to cool down and take stock of our experience in Montreal.

Let's start from the beginning.

Travel to the stadium via subway with all of us gathering in one spot away from the Montreal fans. Well done Montreal FO.

March to the stadium en masse. Incident free. Well done both sets of fans

Access into the stadium via one door. Good enough

Concession stands very busy to begin with. Oh well, no big problem for me.

General admission seemed to be the order of the day. Everyone that gets involved big time, all the time, seemed to congregate near the front of our sections, which is the norm for away games. To be expected.

My seats, 30 of us (12 of them under the age of 15) were in the 1rst 2 rows of 259. This worked out well for us as we were far enough away from the normally intense area at the front for us to enjoy the game without putting our kids into the thick of the action in the stands. Pekduck was aware of the kids with us, and if he 'put' us in at area, 'Thanks mate', as this is where we wanted to be.

Smoke bombs go off in our combined sections. First thoughts are we as a group are going to pay for that, and I hope no one gets hurt or there is no damage.

Second half starts and the Capo comes up to our section and parks himself and the drums right beside us. Hey no problem with that. Better acoustics for the drums, our section was really quite loud and involved. Whatever the reason, we just squished up a bit and made room for them and a few more people that came along with them.

Security were visible but quite subtle and from what I saw they went about their work without being heavy handed or in our faces.

Now I am entering into an incident that has me fuming. For the person who lit the smoke bomb off in the second row of Section 259, was it your intention to set it off and throw it in the direction of my wife and my 14 year old daughter? They both were completely unaware of what was happening, tried to move quickly and stumbled in the tight confines of our now busy section.

What if she fell? What if she fell on the smoke bomb? It would have scarred her without question. It left scorch marks on the concrete floor. Do you ever ask yourself how your actions will affect others. Particularly when you are the only ones who know what is about to happen? Can't you give any warning to those around you as to what is about to happen? Or even, just be a man with balls and stand there and hold it yourselves? Or even better, be a bigger man and fucking PM me with an apology, or even better, come up to me when you next see me and apologize in person for putting my wife and daughter in jepardy, just so you can behave in a particular way.

With all this security that was put in place, I didn't think that it would be our own fans (or supporters whatever you want to call yourselves) that would be the ones that my family had to be protected from.

Sorry to hear that bro. As someone who is a fervent supporter and gives his all each and every game, you have earned respect and you deserve someone answer for this.

I am staying away from this topic in general because I wasn't there and I am relatively neutral on the topic of smokes and flares. I like em, but I don't believe they should be used indiscriminantly. I had some ideas on how to solve this problem but it's no longer up to me to figure out this mess since I am not part of the group anymore. But the one opinion I do have is that if someone IS going to use smoke/flares, then man up, don't be a pussy by throwing it indisciminantly into a crowd of unsuspecting people. If you're "brave" enough to light on, be brave enough to hold it yourself or plant it at your own feet. And the rest of the travellers should hold these assholes accountable. Leaving it up to security to figure things out won't happen, all they will do is come down on all travelling support in general. The actions of a few retards shouldn't negatively affect the entire support base.

[David_Oliveira]

Are you serious? Even after what you read in my post, you are still willing to put other fans at risk of injury and property damage?
There is a code of conduct in place. No flares or smoke bombs, certainly at BMO and in Montreal.

Why don't you hold it in your own hands if a code of conduct needs to be established. Then you will also be punished also. Win win situation as far as I am concerned.
If you read my posts earlier, I stated that I like them but since it is illigal, I don't find a place for them. Some people will do it, just like tailgating and drinking in public. I am truly sorry about your experience but I just don't think that people will just stop using them. I agree that these people must be willing to be held accountable for their choice to light them.
Please don't take offense to my post I, pretty much agree with you except I know that people will still light them up.

[4evared]

Thanks Roogsy for your post,

Supporting TFC and being part of the RPB has become of a very important and quite frankly a very enjoyable part of my life. Being able to share that with my family makes it even better.

Someone has messaged me with an apology as to what happened even though he did not light the smoke bomb, he inadvertently directed it in my direction after it landed by him from behind. Glad to see that someone has got some balls around here.

I still do not know who it was that threw it in the first place, but I can assure you that as a husband and a father, if anyone puts my family in danger in a setting that is supposed to safe and fun they will have to answer to their actions.

[denime]

Sorry to hear that bro. As someone who is a fervent supporter and gives his all each and every game, you have earned respect and you deserve someone answer for this.

I am staying away from this topic in general because I wasn't there and I am relatively neutral on the topic of smokes and flares. I like em, but I don't believe they should be used indiscriminantly. I had some ideas on how to solve this problem but it's no longer up to me to figure out this mess since I am not part of the group anymore. But the one opinion I do have is that if someone IS going to use smoke/flares, then man up, don't be a pussy by throwing it indisciminantly into a crowd of unsuspecting people. If you're "brave" enough to light on, be brave enough to hold it yourself or plant it at your own feet. And the rest of the travellers should hold these assholes accountable. Leaving it up to security to figure things out won't happen, all they will do is come down on all travelling support in general. The actions of a few retards shouldn't negatively affect the entire support base.

QFT !

[Abou Sky]

It normally is, but the 8 page .pdf that Montreal sent us, and Pekduck buying all seats on his CC, Montreal FO demanded it not be GA. Seems their staff had no clue on this.

Only 8 pages? How dare people not read that.

Have to admit I didn't even read the 3 paragraph email from TFC regarding the fact that we would be kettled.

If the norm is GA and MTL know this and didn't want GA about 20-30 8.5x11 printed pages saying 'match not GA, please sit in assigned seats' would have taken care of that issue.

[Oldtimer]

Solid post, Roogsy.

[tfcfan2011]

So it is illegal to be intoxicated in public in every jurisdiction in Canada. Are you suggesting the RPB follows that to a tee? I bet a pound to a penny you're not.

So then where is the line actually drawn?


Being drunk will only get you punished
Throwing smoke bombs will get the entire support punished.

See the difference?


but in Montreal there were lots, right up to the 90th minute. Small beers and they were expensive, but they were available all game, you could have got hammered if you chose to.

what i meant was, that obviously there were enough people getting hammered at BMO that the entire group was punished, and not simply the individual...

[Huyton]

I have no problem with flares and smoke bombs, I think they look great. BUT I don't want to actually sit or stand in a section where they are going off, and I don't think that's unreasonable.

In the places where the football culture allows or encourages flares, smoke bombs, etc., you also won't find our wives and children. You won't find people with limited mobility and you won't find people who don't want to be in the middle of it.

In other words, they have a choice. People know exactly what can happen in such areas and either join in, or avoid it.

The sub-human who used a smoke bomb in a crowd of unsuspecting people deserves our contempt and censure.

[TOBOR !]

If you read my posts earlier, I stated that I like them but since it is illigal, I don't find a place for them. Some people will do it, just like tailgating and drinking in public. I am truly sorry about your experience but I just don't think that people will just stop using them. I agree that these people must be willing to be held accountable for their choice to light them.
Please don't take offense to my post I, pretty much agree with you except I know that people will still light them up.

What you actually said was


Why is it that people can't agree to disagree? People will support in different ways. I understand people don't want to be stuck in the smoke cloud or don't want to suffer any damages or injuries and that is perfectly fine. The pro smoke people want to light off the smoke and, if they are willing to suffer the consequences, that should be fine too. I think those that lit off the smoke should have let others around know about it. When flares and smoke have been lit in the past (ie. marches to BMO) people let others around know that it was going to happen. Can we just make this status quot going forward? IF you are going to light anything, you do it at your own risk and let people around you know. I think that this could be a major solution to this issue. People are going to do it no matter what (and will get punished if caught). We just need to find a solution so issues don't arise. A code of conduct needs to be established.

Well it's not fine. These are such naive comments. Think about it David.

No-one who brings a flare or smokebomb into BMO is going to a). consider the safety and gameday experience of their fellow supporter, or b). hold flare / accept full consequences. No-one.

They're going to do what they did in Montreal. They're going to light it, throw it, and hide among the crowd.

Someone's going to get injured. A lot of people will be pissed off, and we'll all be punished. Regardless of 'how cool the smoke looks in that photo'.

[Belfast_Boy]

Kevin that's terrible. it shouldn't have happened.

personally I like how the smoke and flares look. but when i have my kid with me I don't want to be standing in the middle of it. Like Huyton pointed out we don't expect it here and shouldn't have to put up with it. if the rules change and it's accpeted then we all know what to expect. until that happens put your mom's lighter back in her purse.

[Yohan]

O.K. I have given myself 48 hours to cool down and take stock of our experience in Montreal.


Smoke bombs go off in our combined sections. First thoughts are we as a group are going to pay for that, and I hope no one gets hurt or there is no damage.

Second half starts and the Capo comes up to our section and parks himself and the drums right beside us. Hey no problem with that. Better acoustics for the drums, our section was really quite loud and involved. Whatever the reason, we just squished up a bit and made room for them and a few more people that came along with them.

Security were visible but quite subtle and from what I saw they went about their work without being heavy handed or in our faces.

Now I am entering into an incident that has me fuming. For the person who lit the smoke bomb off in the second row of Section 259, was it your intention to set it off and throw it in the direction of my wife and my 14 year old daughter? They both were completely unaware of what was happening, tried to move quickly and stumbled in the tight confines of our now busy section.

What if she fell? What if she fell on the smoke bomb? It would have scarred her without question. It left scorch marks on the concrete floor. Do you ever ask yourself how your actions will affect others. Particularly when you are the only ones who know what is about to happen? Can't you give any warning to those around you as to what is about to happen? Or even, just be a man with balls and stand there and hold it yourselves? Or even better, be a bigger man and fucking PM me with an apology, or even better, come up to me when you next see me and apologize in person for putting my wife and daughter in jepardy, just so you can behave in a particular way.

With all this security that was put in place, I didn't think that it would be our own fans (or supporters whatever you want to call yourselves) that would be the ones that my family had to be protected from.

I'm not pleased to hear that you and your family has to go through this crap. This incident only highlights the dangers posed by flares and smoke bombs. Disgraceful. It's no longer cool when you put other people's lives at risk.

For the people who threw flares and smoke bombs, did you think of what smoke can do do a little kid or an old man/woman's lungs? People with asthma? Would you be willing to pay for medical expenses if a person ends up getting burned?

As of right now, MLS FO (and Mtl FO) has all the ammo needed to ban TFC supporters from bringing any sort of TIFO or drums or etc. I sincerely hope this does not happen. We may not know the repercussions of this Sat's game until months later if MLS FO decides to smack TFC supporters like they did to Houston supporters. And it will be people like Phil and other SG execs who will have to fight for TFC supporters again. (as if they don't have enough on their plate already) The job of SG execs aren't to deal with other supporters (esp non affliated supporters) stupidities

I appreciate all forms of support for TFC, but if you want to light flares and smoke bombs, go get your own section, and you go talk to relevant FOs. Because as of right now, enough people do not want smoke bombs and flares in their section and I think you should stop disrespecting others.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Only 8 pages? How dare people not read that.

Have to admit I didn't even read the 3 paragraph email from TFC regarding the fact that we would be kettled.

If the norm is GA and MTL know this and didn't want GA about 20-30 8.5x11 printed pages saying 'match not GA, please sit in assigned seats' would have taken care of that issue.

Ignorance does not excuse. It wasn't difficult to find what was important regarding attending the match.

[Red Rat]

I'm not pleased to hear that you and your family has to go through this crap. This incident only highlights the dangers posed by flares and smoke bombs. Disgraceful. It's no longer cool when you put other people's lives at risk.

For the people who threw flares and smoke bombs, did you think of what smoke can do do a little kid or an old man/woman's lungs? People with asthma? Would you be willing to pay for medical expenses if a person ends up getting burned?

As of right now, MLS FO (and Mtl FO) has all the ammo needed to ban TFC supporters from bringing any sort of TIFO or drums or etc. I sincerely hope this does not happen. We may not know the repercussions of this Sat's game until months later if MLS FO decides to smack TFC supporters like they did to Houston supporters. And it will be people like Phil and other SG execs who will have to fight for TFC supporters again. (as if they don't have enough on their plate already)

I appreciate all forms of support for TFC, but if you want to light flares and smoke bombs, go get your own section, and you go talk to relevant FOs. Because as of right now, enough people do not want smoke bombs and flares in their section and I think you should stop disrespecting others.

Last year at the end of the season, it was actually the very last home game. We were getting ready to party at gate 3 and a little girl was dancing in front of the drum when two smoke bombs dropped right in front of her. I remember this clearly and I am sure the ones there do as well. I took the drum and split

[Furtado91]

^^^^ do you know what happened to the little girl after the incident? just curious I hope the girl was ok.

[Red Rat]

I didn't stick around, I just saw the mother picking her and running away

[Furtado91]

I didn't stick around, I just the mother picking her and running away

wow. hope she was ok.

[Pookie]

I don't normally agree with Roogsy but when I do, I prefer to do it 100%.

Nice post.

The $0.02 I will add is simply this. Like them or not, as a group there should be no discussion about the etiquette around the use of smokes and flares. If the rules are posted and the use of them is banned, end of story.

Unless we'd all like to discuss having restricted travel privileges as well as sanctions at home and away. Then I guess let your own individual agenda take precedent over the rights of the masses. To see members (or non-members) back our leadership into a corner where credibility is threatened frustrates me to no end. Our exec works hard to advance our charter and selfish actions like this do nothing but hinder them.

Letting security sort it out shouldn't be an option. "Self Policing" only works if you actually add the action of "policing" to the mix. Otherwise, they are just words with no meaning. Those with legal liability for ensuring safety of ticket holders certainly know what "policing" means and you can bet that if we can't control it, it will be controlled for us. Keep it up and then we can all find out what it means to be hassled, restricted, etc.

[tfcleeds]

Hey, I like flares and smoke, and if I travel to South America or Eastern Europe or somewhere similar, I think it would be cool to be a part of it. But here, it's not allowed, and for good reason. I don't see why this is such a contentious issue. It's against the regulations period, and we already know what the downside to yahoos (check that, utter gutless morons is more like it) lighting flares and then throwing them at BMO is. Remember the person who got burned at the Chivas game a few years back. If that, and Kevin's story aren't reason enough to answer the question of WHY there shouldn't be flares, well, there it is.

[__wowza]

im going to take up a stance that phil took up a few pages back..
can we get back on topic now about GA in the supporters section?

the past 4+ pages have been on and off about flares/smoke bombs and i believe we've exhausted all of the talking points we have for now. the way people support will always be discussed and dissected, but at the end of the day the rules of BMO are the rules of BMO, if you'd like to have flares/smoke bombs, take it up with security or the FO.

[Abou Sky]

Ignorance does not excuse. It wasn't difficult to find what was important regarding attending the match.

This isn't like pleading ignorance to a murder charge.

As I understand it:

*Most away supporters sections are GA.

*This was an exception to the rule.

If that is the case, is it really unreasonable to expect that there be some signage to tell people that it was not GA?

I am not asking for the moon here, I am also not asking SG's to do it. It is the responsibility of the FO

[Roogsy]

I do think they go hand in hand Wowza. By having people sit in the section they were given on their tickets, you then have better ability to pick out misbehaviour.

This also goes along the whole "control" issue. If it is in fact a policy of RPB not to use flares/smoke then everyone in the section that was awarded to RPB would know not to do it right? It would also be common sense for those who do want to do it to do it in another section away from the RPBs.

I've been on many away games and yes it is a free-for-all to an extent. But if that gets a little more organized, not necessarily a rigid "sit in your own numbered seats" plan but rather a "this is a RPB controlled section" you might see less of these problems within the group and those outside the group would be dealt with away from RPB.

[4evared]

im going to take up a stance that phil took up a few pages back..
can we get back on topic now about GA in the supporters section?

the past 4+ pages have been on and off about flares/smoke bombs and i believe we've exhausted all of the talking points we have for now. the way people support will always be discussed and dissected, but at the end of the day the rules of BMO are the rules of BMO, if you'd like to have flares/smoke bombs, take it up with security or the FO.

I can't agree with you at all
Wowza. I did help derail this thread from GA to flares, but the two go hand in hand. I stated in my original post that I was happy to be away from the area that is generally considered GA, that being the front where most of the active chanting goes on.

My problem with the smoke bomb is that the people who congregated alongside us in our row and those rows nearby made the decision to sit where they wanted and brought about a scenario that put my wife and daughter in danger, not to mention the 6 year old in front of me and the 8 year old just behind me.

[__wowza]

I do think they go hand in hand Wowza. By having people sit in the section they were given on their tickets, you then have better ability to pick out misbehaviour.

This also goes along the whole "control" issue. If it is in fact a policy of RPB not to use flares/smoke then everyone in the section that was awarded to RPB would know not to do it right? It would also be common sense for those who do want to do it to do it in another section away from the RPBs.

I've been on many away games and yes it is a free-for-all to an extent. But if that gets a little more organized, not necessarily a rigid "sit in your own numbered seats" plan but rather a "this is a RPB controlled section" you might see less of these problems within the group and those outside the group would be dealt with away from RPB.

ossington's original post was about the GA, which got transformed into the discussion about flares/smoke for more than half of the thread which lead to the debate between those for, those on the fence and those against using them. although im all for discussion, it is not only RPB policy not to use these items, but BMO/Big-O policy as well. unless someone is planning on talking to the FO about using them, the bulk of us have given our two cents and i think we're all ready to move back to talking about GA.

having said that, i would like to think that GA is common knowledge, but it isnt. during the laguna match i was forced to move outt've seats with my friends when our seats had been taken over. the people who owned the seats didn't ask us anything, they just showed up 20 minutes late, stood in the aisle for a good 5 minutes and then got security. when we mentioned our seats had been taken, the woman told us to find the usher from 112, and we refused before sitting up top where the handi seats were.

i agree that sitting in a semi-structured location would help, but we're a big group with a lot of people claiming RPB status, this also doesn't account for the number of people who would wander into the section or toss items. if a flare is lit off and finds it's way over to us, we'd still be held liable. i think it's an interesting idea, it would be incredibly hard to enforce, but i'd like to hear your thoughts. maybe badges, membership card or tags for admittance? if someone can vouch for you, you get a tag, and flash it to stand with us.

at the end of the day, GA should police themselves, maybe a RPB rep designated for conflicts and stuff? someone well versed in the rules of the away/home venue who could solve gameday disputes like this that come up? sort've like an internal security who deal with RPB members. the rep posts the seat/section theyre in prior to game day that can be found in case any issues come up. that way if we have any stragglers or casuals that find their way into the section we have someone who knows how to address their concerns.

[4evared]

OK then Wowza, do you want to open up a thread with the topic related to the smoke bomb issues and put in all that was posted in this thread.

[__wowza]

I can't agree with you at all
Wowza. I did help derail this thread from GA to flares, but the two go hand in hand. I stated in my original post that I was happy to be away from the area that is generally considered GA, that being the front where most of the active chanting goes on.

My problem with the smoke bomb is that the people who congregated alongside us in our row and those rows nearby made the decision to sit where they wanted and brought about a scenario that put my wife and daughter in danger, not to mention the 6 year old in front of me and the 8 year old just behind me.


OK then Wowza, do you want to open up a thread with the topic related to the smoke bomb issues and put in all that was posted in this thread.


not at all, we're just posting at the same time so it's hard to keep up. fair enough, my post was more directed towards the "let's have flares/smoke bombs! vs let's not.." conversation.
i posted above ways we can better organize ourselves if a GA scenario does take effect. i think if we're structured well enough in the future, then standing with RPBs should not cause you an issue. it's definately something that needs to be discussed, no one should ever have to be in danger during a match and i think at this point looking for solutions to this is top priority.


in our hearts we're supporters , but being a supporter for me stops the second someones in harms way.

[Red Rat]

OK then Wowza, do you want to open up a thread with the topic related to the smoke bomb issues and put in all that was posted in this thread.

I think that this topic run it course, no need

[Redcoe15]

What 4evahred said was 100% accurate. I already posted earlier in this thread (tenth, actually) about that smoke bomb going off next to me in the row in front of me. The smoke went right into my face, and I had to use my scarf as a mask so that I wouldn't have to breathe in those nasty fumes. It was a very unpleasant experience.

I'm suprised that there are some people who are telling me to deal with it, because smoke bombs are a way of life with soccer supporters. It's one thing if it's controlled and handled by experts, like they do in Portland and elsewhere. But when you throw them into a crowd like a hand grenade, where the people it lands next to get affected by it unexpectedly, don't think you can just brush it off like its no big deal. It could have been MUCH WORSE! No one attending a match deserves something like that.

Roogsy's post is bang on. If you want to do something stupid like that, do it on your own by holding the smoke bomb yourself and be prepared to face any consequences of your own actions. Don't do anything that jeopardizes the rest of us.

[Huyton]

Kevin is correct. General Availability brought about a situation where someone was able to hide.

It does not take much to imagine that the consequences of this incident could have been far worse.

You want GA? You want flares and smoke bombs? I'm fine with that, but YOU don't get to make that decision unilaterally for dozens, or hundred, of other people who don't.

[__wowza]

I'm suprised that there are some people who are telling me to deal with it, because smoke bombs are a way of life with soccer supporters. It's one thing if it's controlled and handled by experts, like they do in Portland and elsewhere. But when you throw them into a crowd like a hand grenade, where the people it lands next to get affected by it unexpectedly, don't think you can just brush it off like its no big deal. It could have been MUCH WORSE! No one attending a match deserves something like that.

Roogsy's post is bang on. If you want to do something stupid like that, do it on your own by holding the smoke bomb yourself and be prepared to face any consequences of your own actions. Don't do anything that jeopardizes the rest of us.

the part in bold is the part i want to be done with. they're not supposed to be used at BMO, at the Big-O or by RPBs (our charter clearly outlines behaviour that has the ability to hurt other supporters). there shouldn't be a discussion about it. they may be a "way of life", but they aren't our way of life. DON'T USE THEM, END OF DISCUSSION.

according to our charter and the rules of our stadium, usage of these items in an unsafe fashion (ie: the way they've always been used) are grounds for banning from the stadium and from the group. we need to start singling the people that do use them out. if someone throws one, if someone drops one, if someone lights one, or even brings one in. they need to be reported to security and god help them if they're affiliated with the RPBs. until the rules change they're going to be used discreetly/dangerously so as not to incriminate anyone who uses them, and until the rules change, we need to be vigilant. im sure everyone remembers what happened with security the last time a device like that went off at BMO (and im not talking about the pregame ones)..

[Fort York Redcoat]

Kevin is correct. General Availability brought about a situation where someone was able to hide.

It does not take much to imagine that the consequences of this incident could have been far worse.

You want GA? You want flares and smoke bombs? I'm fine with that, but YOU don't get to make that decision unilaterally for dozens, or hundred, of other people who don't.

I agree with your final statement but the problem was that it was NOT GA. If it was known it was GA from the get go the pseudo-sorta GA that happened down front would have been as defined as it is in home games and Canada games. The fact that they didn't have the staff to enforce seat location made the situation where people were where they didn't want or shouldn't be.

With a clear message that it should be GA a lot of circumstances would have been avoided.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

I personally hate people who get anal about seat numbers. Reminds me of that Simpsons episode..."BUT THE VELVET ROPE". C'mon, live a little people. You won't do without a seat and one row to the next makes no bloody difference. If you're just interested in watching a match, why are you in a supporter section? I figured it's implied that the section's purpose is beyond this sort of stuff.

i hate that mentality for several reasons 1) i paid to sit where i want, I can support how i want. i expect people near me to be singing and swearing etc and I intend on doing the same. 2) I wouldnt be just a row up from my seat. Id be far far away from where I bought my seat. If i didnt give a shit i wouldnt have bought my tickets the day they came out and would have bought a scalped one.

Once again just cuz you dont care doesnt mean people dont.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

You are right - my opinion means little... but it was not an opinion I was expressing. Been to about 20 or so away games and every one of them was GA. Thus, GA is what away games are. One guy complaining on a website is not likely going to change that.

well the thing is this wasnt GA.
thats why im complaining. Had it been GA i wouldnt be complaining. Id have been at my seats early without having to ask people to leave.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

Once again I have no prob with GA.
This wasnt GA, it was treated by some as GA who were then surprised when they were booted from places where they didnt have their seats.

[prizby]

Once again I have no prob with GA.
This wasnt GA, it was treated by some as GA who were then surprised when they were booted from places where they didnt have their seats.

I am surprised. And the reason I am surprised is because in the past road trips I have been on, it hasn't been "GA", yet it was treated like GA and from where I was (on the other road trips I have been on), there NEVER was an issue of it being GA.

And frankly, I cannot understand why there is such a fuss about the subject. (This is not directed at you directly OMY-just a "generalization") Is the seat on the ticket that much more important to Toronto FC fans than coming together as a collective fan base and trying to support our boys on the field and sing and chant them towards victory?

It blew me away that people would come in 25 minutes after kickoff and had to get security so they could have "their" seats.

I think that is just sad

[ryan]

I'm gonna buy up all the front row seats in supporters, wear blue and sit there like a fud sipping on juice not making a sound.
I'm sure those who absolutely must be in their assigned seats won't take any exception to that, right? But hey, that's the way I want to support this team so you just have to deal with it!

RPB will never grow and be stronger, as a group, if it's members all so bloody insistent on doing things their own bloody way. Think groups like TA would be so effective if half the group in the middle decided they wanted to sit down for the match or not sing the anthem? Wouldn't that make the group look silly. Kind of like how in RPB, some people are early, some people are late....some people sing the anthem, some people don't....some people yell player names, some people look at them like they are crazy. Just my opinion of course.


This gets away from the topic of GA but I just wanted to comment because I think I've finally highlighted what I find bothersome when I read this forum. It's as if RPB comes off as a group of individuals, rather than individuals forming a group. Not all the time, but often enough.
Many unwilling to follow on a wide variety of topic from GA, to props, to what to sing, how to support, etc. One side argues one thing, another side argues another...come to an impasse and nobody gives way to the other.

I don't mean that as a slight on anyone, just an observation.

[Bluenose13]

I'm gonna buy up all the front row seats in supporters, wear blue and sit there like a fud sipping on juice not making a sound.
I'm sure those who absolutely must be in their assigned seats won't take any exception to that, right? But hey, that's the way I want to support this team so you just have to deal with it!

RPB will never grow and be stronger, as a group, if it's members all so bloody insistent on doing things their own bloody way. Think groups like TA would be so effective if half the group in the middle decided they wanted to sit down for the match or not sing the anthem? Wouldn't that make the group look silly. Kind of like how in RPB, some people are early, some people are late....some people sing the anthem, some people don't....some people yell player names, some people look at them like they are crazy. Just my opinion of course.


This gets away from the topic of GA but I just wanted to comment because I think I've finally highlighted what I find bothersome when I read this forum. It's as if RPB comes off as a group of individuals, rather than individuals forming a group. Not all the time, but often enough.
Many unwilling to follow on a wide variety of topic from GA, to props, to what to sing, how to support, etc. One side argues one thing, another side argues another...come to an impasse and nobody gives way to the other.

I don't mean that as a slight on anyone, just an observation.You're not wrong.

[jabbronies]

This gets away from the topic of GA but I just wanted to comment because I think I've finally highlighted what I find bothersome when I read this forum. It's as if RPB comes off as a group of individuals, rather than individuals forming a group. Not all the time, but often enough.
Many unwilling to follow on a wide variety of topic from GA, to props, to what to sing, how to support, etc. One side argues one thing, another side argues another...come to an impasse and nobody gives way to the other.

I don't mean that as a slight on anyone, just an observation.

Can't say I agree with this (bolded part).

I think the problem we have is that we are multiple groups within a group.
There are probably 3 different groups within the RPB:

Those who who want to watch the game and react to the play on the field.
Those who want to sing for 90 minutes straight regardless of what is happening on the pitch.
Those who are indifferent to either and are waiting to see which group comes out on top.

i think you'll see each group holds similar values on various topics and issues.

[David_Oliveira]

What you actually said was



Well it's not fine. These are such naive comments. Think about it David.

No-one who brings a flare or smokebomb into BMO is going to a). consider the safety and gameday experience of their fellow supporter, or b). hold flare / accept full consequences. No-one.

They're going to do what they did in Montreal. They're going to light it, throw it, and hide among the crowd.

Someone's going to get injured. A lot of people will be pissed off, and we'll all be punished. Regardless of 'how cool the smoke looks in that photo'.

Wait a second, before that I wrote:

This is what we should strive for. The kind of support that London describes is what we need to be striving for. We should bot be putting anyone down for supporting the team in their way. This is the downfall of living in a multicultural society. People will be doing things differently. People need ti stop thinking their style of support is better than the other. Personally, I try to do what London describes. I am pro smoke but since it is illegal, I won't be lighting anything. I just hate how divisive people are doing right now. We all support TFC so why all this hate towards each other?
It's on page 7. Very first post which was in response to London's post:


^^ I never once refered to myself as ultra, "european ultras" have no place in north america.

this term was placed on us by alot of the people around here,example #1 (OOOOOOOltra) we are just trying to bring the style of support that WE grew up watching.

we do not engage in battling security or police or other supporters,

we simply bring a european style of support in the stands, it does not mean that we are trying to replicate old world style or anything like that.

as a child i would have tapes sent to me from italy so i could watch matches almost a week after they occured, it was the only way to see them play, over the years i fell in love with "euro style stadium support" , so that is what i know and bring with me to every match.

When the team is down, you build them up, when they are up you raise them higher, i give as much effort as i feel the players should- 90 minutes
I clearly say that since it is illegal, I won't be doing it.
If people want to do it anyways, they need to suffer the consequences that the law state.

[ryan]

Can't say I agree with this (bolded part).

I think the problem we have is that we are multiple groups within a group.
There are probably 3 different groups within the RPB:

Those who who want to watch the game and react to the play on the field.
Those who want to sing for 90 minutes straight regardless of what is happening on the pitch.
Those who are indifferent to either and are waiting to see which group comes out on top.

i think you'll see each group holds similar values on various topics and issues.

You're probably more accurate in saying there are various groups, than every single member being their own as a wrote it. What I was trying to say really.

Although I think it's a bit more diverse (in the stands, where it truly counts) than just 3 groups as you list. Beyond these virtual walls there are many more groups within where fans like us tend to sit and that further complicates the matter.


I'm quite encouraged by what's been setup (and I think mentioned in the thread already) for Canada's WCQ's this summer/fall. 3 distinct sections for support. Hopefully it's executed well.

[jabbronies]

You're probably more accurate in saying there are various groups, than every single member being their own as a wrote it. What I was trying to say really.

Although I think it's a bit more diverse (in the stands, where it truly counts) than just 3 groups as you list. Beyond these virtual walls there are many more groups within where fans like us tend to sit and that further complicates the matter.


yup. ot disagreeing with that. But to focus on the others would further complicate things. I think if you could get those three group together as one, everyone else would follow. I could be wrong though.



I'm quite encouraged by what's been setup (and I think mentioned in the thread already) for Canada's WCQ's this summer/fall. 3 distinct sections for support. Hopefully it's executed well.

Can someone explain they dynamics of this group (CMNT Supporters)? Seems to work better than the TFC setup. FYR, any thoughts?

[SCF1908]

I am surprised by all the GA talk actually, because even at BMO I see from 110 right over to 115 people making room for friends/others in their sections and squeezing a little tighter. There are three seats on the aisle to my left in 114 that are never occupied by the same people and when those holding the tickets show up, I find them good natured and understanding of what the story is, and many of them by my infamous skills of super accurate perception are clearly at a football match for the first time. I was in 149 in row D, two rows behind capo Dave, and a dude came in and stood right between me and my youngest, I asked if he would mind switching with me so I could stand by my son and he was totally cool and understanding and we all squeezed in.

The people on the aisle in front of me were older, the man knew the score but his wife and daughter (?) were not visibly comfortable with the ribald noise and the smoke bomb that was in the section - I should add the three kids with me LOVED that aspect - and moved about 20 rows behind us and appeared to have no issue with the people in the row when they moved in.

Maybe I missed the entire controversy - which would contradict my claims of perceptiveness above I suppose - but this shouldn't be an issue among fellow fans in a supporters section.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Can someone explain they dynamics of this group (CMNT Supporters)? Seems to work better than the TFC setup. FYR, any thoughts?

CMNT support has an entirely different set of challenges. The difference is that they aren't getting together once a week over their team and when they do there needs to be a level of respect not just way of support but a respect to regionality. This new idea of segregating different types of fans is more an opportunity to expand any and all home support. It's less out of incident of friction which is more what's gong on here. I agree with ryan that it is very likely it will help TFC away support to draw a comparison.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Maybe I missed the entire controversy - which would contradict my claims of perceptiveness above I suppose - but this shouldn't be an issue among fellow fans in a supporters section.

You missed it- and what "should" be in a supporters section won't be determined by you but all of us there. That's the point of this ongoing conversation within our group.

[SCF1908]

You missed it- and what "should" be in a supporters section won't be determined by you but all of us there. That's the point of this ongoing conversation within our group.


No, I saw security come several times and the ticket holders and the people standing there appeared to be okay with what the story was and everyone was accommodated, anyway, the section was huge and I can only speak to about two instances I saw.

On another note, perhaps we have a different interpretation of "Should" or you didn't take my statement as I meant it.