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Doucet3
04-07-2012, 11:02 PM
Been lots of criticism on the two lads lately just wanted a POV from the supporters on em

Dunfield: personally like yohan said in another post I think for who he is and what he gets paid he's a great depth player

De Guzman: I'm in no way on the witch hunt bandwagon, but I feel a little ripped of by JDG he has DP status and money and plays average, he will have a good defensive game then turn around and pull the shit like he did versus CLB and just get caught out

Whats your thoughts on them?, curious cause I've seen such a flux lately in opinions

Detroit_TFC
04-08-2012, 07:48 AM
Dunfield has too much on his back right now. He is being asked to do more than he should given his abilities. My opinions on JDG are unchanged, he needs to go play somewhere other than MLS.

denime
04-08-2012, 07:59 AM
Both should be benched,none of them is up to MLS level of play right now for one reason or another.
After first 7-8 games played this should not be a difficult decision for Winter.

ManUtd4ever
04-08-2012, 09:46 AM
I agree that both of them should be benched next game if for no other reason than to serve as a wake up call. These two players should be leaders in the clubhouse and on the pitch based on their collective pedigree and experience with CMNT, and their recent level of play is simply unacceptable.

Davenport
04-08-2012, 11:00 AM
Can you not see for yourself that Dunfield is way out of his depth and shouldn't be paid to play at any level and De Guzman is the biggest waste of money in the history of the game ?

Oldtimer
04-08-2012, 11:41 AM
De Guzman is the biggest waste of money in the history of the game

Denilson would be the worst.
Mista would be second.
JDG is horribly inconsistent, yet he occasionally has an excellent game (like the one against LA). That's part of what is so frustrating about him.

iy12l
04-08-2012, 04:37 PM
http://www.mlssoccer.com/matchcenter/2012-04-07-mtl-v-tor/highlights

At 0.48 you will see Dunfield lose the ball. Look what dunfield does when he loses it...he just stands there and JDG tries to get the ball back but then he gives up and jogs. Why is Morgan so high up? Hes not a left winger for gods sake! Next game i dont want to see those two fuckers in the starting 11!

tfctfctfc
04-08-2012, 05:11 PM
I didn't think de Guzman was every good with TFC. He's had a lot of ups and downs but for the most part I think he called it quits when he came to Toronto. He had a chance to stay in Europe and chose to come here, I think that was him saying to himself he's had enough. He should have stayed in Europe, his heart isn't in it here in Toronto I don't think

denime
04-08-2012, 08:15 PM
I didn't think de Guzman was every good with TFC. He's had a lot of ups and downs but for the most part I think he called it quits when he came to Toronto. He had a chance to stay in Europe and chose to come here, I think that was him saying to himself he's had enough. He should have stayed in Europe, his heart isn't in it here in Toronto I don't think

Would you stay in Europe form maximum 400K per year or come here for 1'9 Mil? I can't blame him,I would do same as he did,come here for retirement $$$.

whyalwaysme11
04-08-2012, 08:38 PM
again i would give both of these guys up for nick labrocca any day of the week.

tfctfctfc
04-08-2012, 08:40 PM
Would you stay in Europe form maximum 400K per year or come here for 1'9 Mil? I can't blame him,I would do same as he did,come here for retirement $$$.

Yes it was more money here and that's great for him, but the attention he would have gotten there and the level of competition are both much higher in Europe. He took the money (as most would) but in doing so he came to a lesser team in a lesser league, essentially mailing it in. He knew he'd be getting paid more to play here against weaker competition and he jumped at the opportunity. That was a bad move by TFC and it was the beginning of the end for de Guzman IMO

TFCREDNWHITE
04-08-2012, 11:46 PM
DeGuzmans' style of play and skill set works beautifully alongside Frings! This team in the midfield is smoking when both DeGuzman and Frings are in the lineup!

Thats the truth, like it or not! DeGuzmans box play and distribution increases ten fold with Frings alongside him. Now, yes, that is a testament to Frings, but still...thats just how DeGuzmans full potential comes into realization. Dunfield CANNOT do the same when alongside Frings....

Oldtimer
04-09-2012, 06:57 AM
DeGuzmans' style of play and skill set works beautifully alongside Frings! This team in the midfield is smoking when both DeGuzman and Frings are in the lineup!

Thats the truth, like it or not! DeGuzmans box play and distribution increases ten fold with Frings alongside him. Now, yes, that is a testament to Frings, but still...thats just how DeGuzmans full potential comes into realization. Dunfield CANNOT do the same when alongside Frings....

... and that might be part of the explanation for JDG's inconsistency. We've noticed that he tends to play according to the players he has around him. With Frings he tends to play well, with Dunfield, not so much. A real leader would raise the level of the players around him. Frings majorly does that. Koevs does that too. Not JDG. JDG has been a bust as a DP. Would he be useful at $200k? Only if he has good players around him.

Juanito
04-09-2012, 08:41 AM
I'll echo most people's sentiments here:

Dunfield may stay as long as there is no one better. He's a decent depth player. Nothing more.

De Guzmán has to go. He was arguably brought in to be a leader, basically what Frings is now. The fact that we are wasting salary cap room on this bum is insulting. I would rather bring in two younger players at the same salary cap hit that have a chance to improve. Julian is not improving and will not improve.

Ajax TFC
04-09-2012, 11:13 AM
I think we made a mistake by letting go of Sturgis and keeping Dunfield

starter
04-09-2012, 11:26 AM
Dunfield is not on the bench since we do not have a better 2nd DM for our formation. I believe JDG compensation is discouraging competition for a DM spot, and frankly Dunfield and Co. expect JDG to be a leader and take responcibility on the pitch. Which creates an issue, since JDG just coasting here, and the rest do not feel compelled ( and compensated ) to lead.

Oblio2
04-09-2012, 11:34 AM
JDG is an epic waste of space. Cant pass, cant tackle, dant defend, cant run, cant cover, cant score, cant lead, cant do anything except collect $2m plus in DP money that is wasted on talentless, heartless, gutless, Sunday league player.

Stouffville_RPB
04-09-2012, 12:55 PM
Both should be benched,none of them is up to MLS level of play right now for one reason or another.After the first 7-8 games played this should not be a difficult decision for Winter.

I agree D except for the last part. The difficult decision would be when he looks at the bench and sees the replacements. As poorly as they have been playing what two on the bench would you put in a DM position over them.


I think that was him saying to himself he's had enough[/B].

He took the money (as most would) but in doing so he came to a lesser team in a lesser league, essentially mailing it in. He knew he'd be getting paid more to play here against weaker competition and he jumped at the opportunity.

And now the so called weaker competition is making him look awful.


JDG should be performing at a much higher level than he is. As a DP he should be carrying this team in Frings' absence. Not only is he failing in that sense he has gone the opposite direction and actually cost the team goals, points and wins. At BMO against Columbus we conceded after a very poor pass by him that allowed Columbus to attack on the counter. His boneheaded tackle in the box in Mexico kicked off the onslaught by Santos. JDG simply is not (and never has) played up to what a DP should. To make matters worse it is his contract that is now hand-cuffing management on personnel decisions. Somewhere MoJo is laughing because he knew this would happen all along.


Fact is Dunfield for what he should be on the team (bench/depth player) is not a bad player. Someone to come off the bench when you need fresh legs. However, squad player or not he is not having a good spell of form right now.

trane
04-09-2012, 02:00 PM
For me JDG is frustrating, because he has shown that he can be so much better. He has the talent to settle and lead the team like Frings does. Instead not only does he fail to bring the level of play up, but he brings it down with silly mistakes, it may be frustration but it cannot be excused.

DoubleUp
04-09-2012, 06:45 PM
Jdg= to expensive.

What do people think of aceval playing further up in the midfield Ldm?

DR HOLLIDAY
04-09-2012, 07:29 PM
Jdg= to expensive.


This is what it comes down to, paying way to much for a player that often looks like he would rather be doing something else.

Dbl_D
04-10-2012, 11:03 AM
EPIC FAIL on both accounts, dunfield keep on bench just incase.... but... de duz should be punted, paid off and part ways to open a dp slot... its not like we (mlse) have paid large sums to people not to play... (alonzo mourning..).... he has been a let down since it was suggested on the (this) board to get him and he turned down our original offer... since then down hill from there...

felipe
04-10-2012, 12:03 PM
My take is - Dunfield has outperformed De Guzman. I'm not saying Dunfield is fantastic, but he's been better than JDG. I'm not saying he should be - but I think he has been.

Dunfield is a perfectly average MLS player.

JDG has been awful most games - even ignoring that contract. That contract has to be the only reason he sees the field.

And to think we essentially gave up Cronin and DeRo for him. (DeRo because he had to leave, justifiably he felt underpaid relative to what he brought to the team compared to JDG)

It sure would be nice to still have Robbo or Cronin back there in a holding position - and DeRo up as a attacking mid.

Sigh.

ouderwien
04-10-2012, 04:25 PM
I guess I'm probably not saying anything new, but Dunfield out performs De Guzman because of the salary. Dunfield is out there as a depth position because Frings is injured. De Guzman should be playing better. The easiest way to rate the expectations of the players is by their salary and a difference of 1.84million between the two players is not shown on the pitch.

However, Dunfield cannot progress the ball forward and always seems to be diving in for balls. Cannot stay on his feet, always out of position.
De Guzman can distribute the ball very effectively and has a great shot, but looks lazy and doesn't seem to care.

When Frings is back, Dunfield will be on the bench and De Guzman will become more effective.

If only the CB's held any confidence, otherwise Frings will be right back to sweeper.

iy12l
04-11-2012, 04:42 AM
My take is - Dunfield has outperformed De Guzman. I'm not saying Dunfield is fantastic, but he's been better than JDG. I'm not saying he should be - but I think he has been.

Dunfield is a perfectly average MLS player.

JDG has been awful most games - even ignoring that contract. That contract has to be the only reason he sees the field.

And to think we essentially gave up Cronin and DeRo for him. (DeRo because he had to leave, justifiably he felt underpaid relative to what he brought to the team compared to JDG)

It sure would be nice to still have Robbo or Cronin back there in a holding position - and DeRo up as a attacking mid.

Sigh.

I dont want to see dunfield in the line-up ever again. Its his slow thinking and predicable passes that always starts a counter attack for the other team. Ill give JDG one more chance and of he screws up we should bench him too.

Huyton
04-11-2012, 05:34 AM
JDG is an epic waste of space. Cant pass, cant tackle, dant defend, cant run, cant cover, cant score, cant lead, cant do anything except collect $2m plus in DP money that is wasted on talentless, heartless, gutless, Sunday league player.

Don't sugar coat it, don't hold back...tell us how you really feel!!

brad
04-11-2012, 07:40 AM
Dunfield has too much on his back right now. He is being asked to do more than he should given his abilities. My opinions on JDG are unchanged, he needs to go play somewhere other than MLS.

In my opinion - the bolded bit sums up the major problem with the team right now (not just Dunfield, but many players).

I agree that Dunfield is a good depth player. I think some people expect far to much from MLS depth players. The problem isn't with Dunfield, it's with the fact that he is starting as opposed to being a depth player.

JDG - really doesn't seem to care IMHO, and it never appears that he has. He came her for the money, no more, no less and he plays like it. I've also thought for a long time that he is the wrong style of player for this league.

Ideally, Dunfield back to the bench as a depth player, and JDG to the reserves to never play for us again. Problem is - who do we play instead that would improve the team?

Honestly, what I would like to see (when Cann and Frings are back)is something like:

Kocic
Ecks--Cann--Aceval/Henry--Morgan
Stinson -- Frings
Silva
Soolsma Koevs Johnson

Cann/Aceval pairing is slow, and might not be that good - but I think it's the best given the personal that we have. That slot needs to be improved. Cann is also better than other options, but still not the answer IMHO.
Stinson and Frings shield the back. There are valid concerns about Frings in the middle due to his age, but you limit his play to the zone in front of our goal, keep him in our half and he will be fine (many older players have had their careers extended in the midfield with altered rolls like this).

brad
04-11-2012, 07:42 AM
DeGuzmans' style of play and skill set works beautifully alongside Frings! This team in the midfield is smoking when both DeGuzman and Frings are in the lineup!

Thats the truth, like it or not! DeGuzmans box play and distribution increases ten fold with Frings alongside him. Now, yes, that is a testament to Frings, but still...thats just how DeGuzmans full potential comes into realization. Dunfield CANNOT do the same when alongside Frings....

Frings is probably kicking him in the backside and yelling at him all game....:)

Juanito
04-11-2012, 08:53 AM
http://detavio.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/square-peg-broken-in-round-hole.jpg

Oldtimer
04-18-2012, 06:56 AM
I suspect that JDG has now played himself off the team. In the past, I think that Winter might have been inclined to offer him a high non-DP contract at season's end. With his failure to step up in Fring's absence, I think that this season will be his last in MLS.

Too bad, because he is capable of much more, but the team's cap-space would be much better utilized bolstering the defense. A DP defender, anyone?

Dunfield may still be around next year, IMO, it depends on who they are able to pick up.

Jack
04-18-2012, 07:20 AM
I still don't get the hate for Dunfield. I'm not sure what people are expecting from our 3rd string DM who is in over his head. In the absence of any sense of pride or responsibility from JDG, this is what we have. I place the blame squarely on the shoulders of the CMNT, Spanish League, Designated Player who is not delivering at big bucks. Or rather, is only delivering when the mood strikes. I would like to see Stinson given some more action. Dunfield should really only be playing late in games and in games against inferior opponents (like NCAA teams or something g:D).

Waggy
04-18-2012, 07:50 AM
http://detavio.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/square-peg-broken-in-round-hole.jpg

Yup. Tho I agree JDG looks way better with Frings out there. JDG can definitely still play, Id be happy to have him back next year. At an average MLS salary. A DP needs to make the players around them better. JDG has never shown an ability to do that. And that was never really his game to begin with. Dunfield is a more than servicable depth guy. Remember hes only been playing so much due to injuries.

Canary10
04-18-2012, 12:21 PM
First off, I agree with everyone that JDG is too expensive, and Oldtimer is probably right that he's played himself off the team for next year.

That aside, I think we have this tendency in modern football to label midfielders either as attacking midfielders or defensive midfielders. JDG is neither one of those. He's more of the old style box to box midfielder. He is not a good defensive midfielder. He's too small, gets muscled off the ball, and he can't tackle (although he is a dogged tackler and often wins balls the second time around). He also clearly doesn't score like an attacking mid would. What he does best is play as deep-lying playmaker. When he sits in behind the forwards and distributes the ball left and right he is very good. We've seen him do well keeping possession up front, distributing, and keeping pressure on opposing defences.

He is not being played this way right now. All the games I've seen, he's barely been distinguishable from a central defender. He should be playing higher up in that playmaking position where he's good. The reason he's good with Frings is that Frings is a good tackler and does the defensive midfielder stuff well, allowing JDG to play his real role. That's my view anyway.

Richard
04-18-2012, 12:23 PM
Yup. Tho I agree JDG looks way better with Frings out there. JDG can definitely still play, Id be happy to have him back next year. At an average MLS salary. A DP needs to make the players around them better. JDG has never shown an ability to do that. And that was never really his game to begin with. Dunfield is a more than servicable depth guy. Remember hes only been playing so much due to injuries.

My prediction is he retires at the end of this year, no way he plays for a club making 250k his ego is not going to handle going from 1.7-1.9 million a year.