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mowe
04-04-2012, 09:15 PM
Huge huge goal by Gomez at the end of the first half. Class finish, the guy's a beast.

Incredibly stupid challenge by De Guzman to give away the first penalty, I don't know what he was thinking. You can't make those mistakes if you want to be a leader on the pitch, I don't care how good a game he had otherwise.

Aceval with the most hilarious/depressing way to give up a penalty. Brutal doesn't even begin to describe it, that was just sad. It will be remembered for a long long time.

On the bright side Soolsma was terrific. He wreaks havoc and keeps up pressure all game.

Henry is the future at CB, Winter better start playing him NOW.

This rollercoaster season continues.

Couchy81
04-04-2012, 09:27 PM
If it wasn't such a waste of my time I'd make a highlight reel of goals against where the opposition player who scores is wide open in no mans land and 5 seconds later you see JDG jogging up to the spot he should have been 6 seconds ago. It happens so many times I feel like I'm in a timewarp. It's ALWAYS JDG JOGGING UP LATE.

I'm not even going to begin talking about the penalties.

edit: Just to add some positive vibes...

Plata is the fucking man, he is clutch. He might be in the midst of a sophomore slump but shit, he's 20 and has a lot of solid playing ahead of him. Can't wait till he picks it up in MLS this season.

TFC USA
04-04-2012, 09:34 PM
There is no rollercoaster season when you've won only 1 game in the CCL/MLS combined.

Roogsy
04-04-2012, 09:35 PM
No complaints from me. I was thoroughly entertained/devastated (isn't that what footy is supposed to do?) in the 1st half. I was beginning to believe.

The 2nd half was a shitshow. But since I wasn't expecting to come out of it with a result, I don't think I am as devastated as some. It was a good run. The team and coaches should hold be proud of the overall performance albeit subtracting this last 45 minutes.

Can someone explain the whole "proximity" issue to me? I keep reading statements about how the Aceval PK was not warraned beacuse of the closeness of the opposition? Never heard of that before...

MartinUtd
04-04-2012, 09:35 PM
Before the first penalty I was saying that DeGuzman was a total liability. He frequently gave the ball away, made bad challenges, and when he was beat he's nonchalantly stroll back in the direction of the play. They took the wrong midfielder off for Stinson. As good as this game was for most of the rest of the roster, I think this is the game that has turned me from a neutral to one of the JDG detractors.

Also, the sportsnet feed was brutal. Between the variable speed streaming and 10 second jumps I was spending more time screaming at the feed than I was at the play on the field.

Dkolish3
04-04-2012, 09:36 PM
Before the forum descends into De Guzman is the worst player ever, he gave up a penalty, I realize it, now on to other thoughts more than just De Guzman cost us the game.

--Sucks that we lost this way giving up two penalties, and having two of our goals cleared off the line.

--Let's give Henry a chance, please don't fool yourselves into thinking he's ready but give him a chance.

--Our team gave up for the last 10 minutes

--Aceval had a truly bad game

--Although we had a good first half, doesn't matter, and anyone who saw the Seattle game should know that as Seattle at Half-time was going to go through.

--Santos deserved to win.


This is sorta of how I feel
http://youtu.be/WZo31zMAySQ

J .
04-04-2012, 09:39 PM
JDG cost us the game. He has cost us many games and NEVER has shown up in big moments. The 6-2 score is such a fucking ridiculous flattering scoreline, we deserved such a better fate up until JDG decided to make the worst play I would say in TFC history. We were through at that point in the match, defending well, getting them on the break and well in the match thus far. The worm turned once he pulled a typical move (so much so I was reminded of the time he jumped OUT of the way of a kick in Colorado for a goal). It hurts to much right now to be happy about going so far.

T-boy
04-04-2012, 09:40 PM
Another baffeling decision by winter to sub Plata - our best attacking player by far. Anybody have any idea why he took him of?

Jack
04-04-2012, 09:42 PM
I hate losing, but I wasn't expecting to win. What bugs me is the boneheaded way in which we lost. Standing around on the 2nd Santos goal instead of pressuring in the midfield gave their player all the time he needed to pick out Gomez' run, which was then misplayed by our D. Both of their first half goals were eminently avoidable. I was screaming at the TV for them to press and they gave the guy yards of space to pick out Gomez.

When we lose because we are just beaten, then I can hold my head up high. When we lose because we shit the bed, then it hurts. JDG's play was completely unworthy of a captain and a DP. Aceval...well...not much to say. Everyone has brain farts. Their goal in the death of the first half was more on the front line players not pressuring the ball up high, giving the Santos players all the time they needed to pick out their passes. You can't do that with a team that has passing of this level. Then we got the JDG coup de grace.

ArmenJBX
04-04-2012, 09:43 PM
We had a good run. Beating Santos at home was a stretch, but controlling that first half is a good sign of things to come.

I'm trying to be positive here, even thought I'm gutted :(

I'd really like to see the TFC Academy compete in the Amway Canadian Championship. We really need to focus on one thing at a time - we've seen what happens when we do, Toronto FC fell 3 times in MLS but it was clear they were thinking of the CCL first and foremost.

Focus on the league, we are still in it, the Eastern Conference can be kind to us. We really need to pull it together on that respect. Other than that, good on Joao Plata on his two goals, good on Toronto for repping Canada all the way to the final four, hopefully Canada is given an automatic berth in the CCL groups now.

Belfast_Boy
04-04-2012, 09:43 PM
fuckity fuck!

football!

reggie
04-04-2012, 09:46 PM
bottomline...1 win in 7 games,,the one thing we had to fix is the middle of our d.management fail again,
jus play henry and cann please..what do we got to lose.

ag futbol
04-04-2012, 09:47 PM
Stack it up however we want, when the rubber hits the road MLS side will be underdogs against the Mexicans. Not exactly in a Real Madrid apoel sense, but there is a quality difference that is noticeable. RSL did unbelievably well to get to the finals a little while back and TFC really should take some pride in how far they've gone. No need to shit on our players really ... someone would have been exposed one way or another.

Focus should solidly back on the league now, where we've build ourselves a mini-hole to dig out of. No need to dwell on this

Ossington Mental Youth
04-05-2012, 07:48 AM
Another baffeling decision by winter to sub Plata - our best attacking player by far. Anybody have any idea why he took him of?

play him on Sunday?

Borga
04-05-2012, 07:56 AM
To me that 2nd goal from Gomez was offside and that changed the complexion of the game. Getting a result was always going to be tough, realistically. I will be very happy when JDG is gone from the team - that foul for the penalty was terrible and he just looks incapable out there far too often for a DP.

canadian_bhoy
04-05-2012, 07:56 AM
Huge huge goal by Gomez at the end of the first half. Class finish, the guy's a beast.

Incredibly stupid challenge by De Guzman to give away the first penalty, I don't know what he was thinking. You can't make those mistakes if you want to be a leader on the pitch, I don't care how good a game he had otherwise.

Aceval with the most hilarious/depressing way to give up a penalty. Brutal doesn't even begin to describe it, that was just sad. It will be remembered for a long long time.

On the bright side Soolsma was terrific. He wreaks havoc and keeps up pressure all game.

Henry is the future at CB, Winter better start playing him NOW.

This rollercoaster season continues.

Pretty much sums it up. I'd add that Plata played really well too - and Kocic made some great saves to keep us in it early on. The penalties killed us though and there's not much more you can say than that.

My other point is probably one that most people will hate. I really don't think the winner of the Voyageurs Cup should be getting a spot in this tournament. It was an amazing run and I wasn't complaining that we were in it. But really - come on. We have never made the playoffs in our league yet we're competing in a tournament of "Champions"? I don't think beating Edmonton and Vancouver is really a massive achievement.

They should keep the V-Cup, but just make it a national open cup (like the FA Cup and Scottish Cup). The CL spots should go to the top 3 or 4 teams in MLS regular season play. Just like they do in Europe. It'd certainly make the MLS regular season more exciting.

Phil
04-05-2012, 07:59 AM
I am really proud that they made it as far as they did, too bad they fell short on effort for that last 45.

I don't understand having DeGuz as a DP if he can only play when Frings is in the lineup. At this piont with his experience he should be able to play his own game and make a stronger contribution.

ryan
04-05-2012, 08:01 AM
I don't know why it's being taken as an overly negative thought that we lost the game on our mistakes. I think that's much better than getting hoofed in the teeth like Seattle did. We proved to ourselves, our club, that we can walk into the lion's den and fucking boss them around. We did that in the 1st, we were without a doubt the superior. I'm floored by that and I think it will invoke a confidence and inspiration in our club going forward. If that doesn't drive and motivate our club to continue taking it to the next level, then I don't know what would.

Face it, from the 1st to the 60th minute we were mostly the better, they began to pour it on and we made further mistakes. That it's, our 4 mistakes cost us 4 goals. The skill level of that side tells us that you can't make those mistakes and we've learned our lesson. The two final goals mean little as TFC had conceded at that point, but it did further illustrate that sides like this won't miss when opportunity is given. They are that much greater in natural skill.

I think the Winter haters can slow down their talk about now, our club was prepared to win. His gameplan was excellent, our boys found tonnes of space and outside of our mistakes were pretty excellent spraying the ball down the wings and moving through the middle. Mental mistakes (and a hilarious handball) were the difference.

So be it gents, we weren't supposed to get anywhere close to where we got to, yet we did, we proved we belonged and we grew immensely as a club. Montreal is in for the wrath of hell when we begin our next journey for a CCL title and heck, even this weekend.

Fantastic run, fantastic effort, one huge step forward for Toronto FC. Nothing to be mad about. You have to learn to win these types of games and that was a great lesson in teaching us what we need to know.



My one big disappointment is the play of Ryan Johnson. His emotions have gotten the better of him and he's put himself off his own game. Stop complaining about every little thing RJ, give a better effort. Too much rage and walking in that match, he gave up too easily and needs to not let his frustration get the better of him.


Last thing, holy moley did Doneil Henry grow from that Olympic qualifying run or what? We might have a stud on our hands and I'm really excited for him. I'm thrilled to have 2 Canadian defenders showing such fantastic promise for the future.

nickio
04-05-2012, 08:02 AM
Before the first penalty I was saying that DeGuzman was a total liability. He frequently gave the ball away, made bad challenges, and when he was beat he's nonchalantly stroll back in the direction of the play. They took the wrong midfielder off for Stinson. As good as this game was for most of the rest of the roster, I think this is the game that has turned me from a neutral to one of the JDG detractors.

Also, the sportsnet feed was brutal. Between the variable speed streaming and 10 second jumps I was spending more time screaming at the feed than I was at the play on the field.

Me too, this game sealed my opinion on JDG. I have gone from being neutral to against him on the team completely. As decent as he CAN be occasionaly, his fuckups just won't end. Now there is just no excuse. I just wish Winter would stop playing him. I think Stinson can do better and develop into a solid player instead. Even Silva or Avila.

What he did last night was absolutely unacceptable. I hope he is not going to ruin the season for us.

Aceval's defending was not good enough.

TFC is so frustrating with their absolute shit of a defence. (minus Ecks)

I just don't think that ANY of CBs that Toronto has right now can help us. I don't think Cann's on the ball game is good enough. He's an average defender at best. I also think Williams is average. Aceval has been dissapointing.

Henry and Maund are our future, but they are way to young to help us just yet.

Jack
04-05-2012, 08:08 AM
To me that 2nd goal from Gomez was offside and that changed the complexion of the game. Getting a result was always going to be tough, realistically. I will be very happy when JDG is gone from the team - that foul for the penalty was terrible and he just looks incapable out there far too often for a DP.

It looked onside to me. The real issue on that goal was how much time our forwards and midfield gave the passer to pick out the pass. Watch the buildup and see everyone standing waiting for the whistle instead of hurrying the pass. We gave them way too much time on the ball. Yes, individual errors killed us, but that sort of play allowed them to expose our weak defense.

yellowfellow
04-05-2012, 08:10 AM
I am really proud that they made it as far as they did, too bad they fell short on effort for that last 45.

I don't understand having DeGuz as a DP if he can only play when Frings is in the lineup. At this piont with his experience he should be able to play his own game and make a stronger contribution.

Agree. With his experience, he should know that the way he charged the Santos player, it's either going to be a foul or a dive. Both would result in a penalty.

There is no shame in losing this one. I am proud of the team. Let's focus on league play.

Phil
04-05-2012, 08:15 AM
It looked onside to me. The real issue on that goal was how much time our forwards and midfield gave the passer to pick out the pass. Watch the buildup and see everyone standing waiting for the whistle instead of hurrying the pass. We gave them way too much time on the ball. Yes, individual errors killed us, but that sort of play allowed them to expose our weak defense.

I know this is not an excuse or anything, but the same linesman called that same ball offside for the entire first half, very consistantly.

I am glad the guys didnt throw up their arms and stand still. They took their medicine and accepted the call but it was a little annoying from the perspective I had on the TV.

Anyhow, its time to pack up and head to Montreal and support the boys. Hopefully they start showing more signs of concentration when it comes to MLS play and get some results.

Oldtimer
04-05-2012, 08:20 AM
Me too, this game sealed my opinion on JDG. I have gone from being neutral to against him on the team completely.

+1

He started out the game with a fantastic defensive play, then proceeded to play like crap for the rest of the match. Not DP-worthy, and not even squad-player worthy. He has real skills, but his inconsistency makes him a liability. Add to that the fact that he wastes a DP slot we could use on a CB, and I can hardly wait until his contract is up, and I was one of his supporters here.

Aceval played so badly, I was wondering if the money-men who fix CONCACAF matches had gotten to him. Maybe not, perhaps he just can't take the pressure.

I'm still proud of our team for making it this far, it's a huge accomplishment. Now to concentrate on league play before it's too late.

ensco
04-05-2012, 08:20 AM
^I thought Eckersley played Gomez onside. That isn't the controversy. The "controversy", if such a word is possible in a game decided 6-2, is that there were 2 minutes added instead of one. There had been one sub, no injuries, and only one diving/time wasting episode.

God, to think we held a two-goal margin at the stroke of halftime ....

Cobblers
04-05-2012, 08:27 AM
Highly entertaining first half, but the wheels fell off the wagon in the second half. Without Frings on the pitch we don't have a clear leader to "pick the boys up" after conceding goals. They looked completely dejected after the second penalty...

Nonetheless, a great run by a club who's form over the last year dictated they shouldn't even have been in this semi-final. At the end of the day, football is about entertainment and apart from the second half last night, the CCL games in 2012 have been highly entertaining. Kudos to TFC for finally providing us with a bit...

Some observations from last night (aside from the poor games by JDG and Aceval (wonder if he actually was fully fit/recovered?), notably):

- As much potential as Morgan has he was very poor last night - he was giving Suarez WAY too much space all night - that essentially led to both penalties (goals), not to mention numerous other chances...
- not to be be picky but Kocic needs to be screaming his head off to Aceval on the second penalty - no green shirts around so Aceval doesn't need to play that...Kocic's job to let him know that...
- RJ, Plata and Soolsma created a lot out of nothing and took their few opportunities well
- we have WAY too big a hole between our back 5 (7?) and our three forwards - doesn't allow us to retain possession or sustain pressure and give our defenders a chance to recoup/regroup and hence they are always under siege. Hence the majority of the time we are simply countering and if that fails pressure is right back on our defenders...case in point: 65% possession advantage to Santos last night
- Silva has wonderful feet and pretty good vision and I'd like to see the ball at his feet more - he was largely a non-factor in this game

Proud of the CCL run, fun to watch. Now on to some consistency in the league please.

Yohan
04-05-2012, 08:27 AM
^I thought Eckersley played Gomez onside. That isn't the controversy. The "controversy", if such a word is possible in a game decided 6-2, is that there were 2 minutes added instead of one. There had been one sub, no injuries, and only one diving/time wasting episode.

God, to think we held a two-goal margin at the stroke of halftime ....
turning point of the match, along with JDG giving up penalty. had a sinking feeling in my stomach when that happened...

still proud of the lads despite the result. we play like this every game, no reason why tfc can't make it to the play offs

Canary10
04-05-2012, 08:28 AM
Ryan kind of summed up my thinking. I know this sounds crazy, but I left that game have some hope for our defence. We showed over most of two legs that we can tactically defend as a team against, let's face it, the best club team in our region. The goals we allowed were stupid individual mistakes. The first was Aceval trying to step in front of his mark instead of staying goal side. I think the second was off from all the angles I saw. And JDG on the third. Individual mistakes are easier to fix than having to adjust the whole thing. I think we did really well keeping our shape, getting players behind the ball when we lost possession and mostly stopping any flow forward. We should concentrate on playing tight like that, and we'll be ok.

This is a far better club than where we are in the league. We still have to show it, but the pieces are there.

dow117
04-05-2012, 08:36 AM
I did not think the score reflected the game at all. Granted Santos deserved the win but the stats clearly showed the TFC had a chance to steal this. The Aceval penalty was just clumsy bad luck and De Gizman's was dumb. I thought Morgan was our worst player in D. Santos defence was very suspect and a better team woud have buried them. Oh well, back to the League ; let the dissapointments continue ......

Jack
04-05-2012, 08:38 AM
I know this is not an excuse or anything, but the same linesman called that same ball offside for the entire first half, very consistantly.

I am glad the guys didnt throw up their arms and stand still. They took their medicine and accepted the call but it was a little annoying from the perspective I had on the TV.

Anyhow, its time to pack up and head to Montreal and support the boys. Hopefully they start showing more signs of concentration when it comes to MLS play and get some results.
I'm not quite ready to move on g:D. Probably tomorrow.

That goal was not the linesman, it was our guys standing around. We can pin it on Harden for getting beaten, but that was a team effort to shit the bed. You have to play until the whistle. All I can say is, watch the buildup for the real reason we conceded on 47 goddamn minutes :(

Chris Wren
04-05-2012, 08:44 AM
When we lose 6-2 I can't hang it all on JDG. Our defense in general is spectacularly bad. I have seen a seasons worth of them being chipped and outrun since the first LA game. It got Frings hurt too. We're going to need to start winning 4-3 to have any chance. Harden and Aceval need to sit for a game, I don't care who goes in their place.....put in Stinson and Lambe at this point, they'd be as effective.

Whoop
04-05-2012, 08:46 AM
I don't blame the referees for that loss at all.

It's not the referees' fault for missed assignments and faulty execution.

Jack
04-05-2012, 08:47 AM
When we lose 6-2 I can't hang it all on JDG. Our defense in general is spectacularly bad. I have seen a seasons worth of them being chipped and outrun since the first LA game. It got Frings hurt too. We're going to need to start winning 4-3 to have any chance. Harden and Aceval need to sit for a game, I don't care who goes in their place.....put in Stinson and Lambe at this point, they'd be as effective.

I'm not hanging this one on JDG, but he played a big part. We were still in it when he made that thoughtless, boneheaded, unneccessary play. While wearing the captain's armband.

The real heartbreaker for me was our guys not defending hard enough up high on the second goal in the dying seconds of the first half. That was a team effort. I think I'm repeating myself :(

TFC Cityboy
04-05-2012, 08:48 AM
a few random points
-jdg's brainfart sums the guy up- overrated, overpaid and poor judgement.
-disappointed in BDK's losing the plot. It was a clear penalty, and I'm sure he and AW told the players to keep their heads. To see the asst coach lose the plot and get sent off sent a very negative message to the players at a key juncture of the match.
-aceval makes Andy Iro look like a hybrid of Vincent Kompany and Nemanjer Vidic
-we look really good on the attack. Dunfield Silva and JDG (shockingly) bossed that first half while the movement up top was fantastic
- Nick Soolsma could be a very big player for us this season. Great pass for the 2nd and works his ass off every time
-the roadrunner took his goals great and was a constant threat - why was he subbed and what do we not know re his fitness?
-Doneil Henry and Matt Stinson instead of ass-evil and de guzman please
-ecks is a beast - love him!

Dead proud we got as far as we did and we were always a longshot to win last night, but by Thunder we gave them something to think about, went into hostile territory and ouplayed the top team in Mexico for the 1st half til we pressed the big red self-destruct button.

Let's hope for a reaction in Montreal to reward all the faithful travelling support (can' t wait!)

ryan
04-05-2012, 08:51 AM
I don't blame the referees for that loss at all.

It's not the referees' fault for missed assignments and faulty execution.

I thought that crew did a pretty great job last night. I personally don't believe you give that foul to JDG there. It was a foul yes, but not much of one and I don't think without the foul he was going to save that ball. Give them the corner. It's the CCL semi and that call ended the game for the most part.

Not saying it was a bad/wrong call, because it wasn't, but I think you eat it there a bit. Suarez really sold what was minimal contact.

That thinking of mine here is really driven by our other north american sport, because whistle swallowing in situations like that is quite common. Perhaps not suited to football so much so I could be wrong in what I believe should have been done.

TFC Cityboy
04-05-2012, 08:52 AM
I don't blame the referees for that loss at all.

It's not the referees' fault for missed assignments and faulty execution.

I thought the referee and linesmen were excellent. Didn't let the Mexicans get away with their diving early on so they stopped.
Goal #2 was onside - I thought offside initially but rewound at HT and he was level with ecks when the ball was played (tho he was goalside of Harden hence it's easy to think he was off).
Goal 3 was a clear penalty- no need to make the challenge- stay on your feet, force the striker out wide. The only bloody time that useless twat jdg comes back and look what happened. Last time I criticise him for jogging back slow.
Goal 4 was handball in the box but why the fuck was a 6' tall defender heading a ball that was 2 feet off the ground. I pine for Nick Garcia sometimes.

Nope- can't hang this on the reffing crew- wish he reffed in MLS tbh.

Whoop
04-05-2012, 08:54 AM
a few random points
-jdg's brainfart sums the guy up- overrated, overpaid and poor judgement.
-disappointed in BDK's losing the plot. It was a clear penalty, and I'm sure he and AW told the players to keep their heads. To see the asst coach lose the plot and get sent off sent a very negative message to the players at a key juncture of the match.
-aceval makes Andy Iro look like a hybrid of Vincent Kompany and Nemanjer Vidic
-we look really good on the attack. Dunfield Silva and JDG (shockingly) bossed that first half while the movement up top was fantastic
- Nick Soolsma could be a very big player for us this season. Great pass for the 2nd and works his ass off every time
-the roadrunner took his goals great and was a constant threat - why was he subbed and what do we not know re his fitness?
-Doneil Henry and Matt Stinson instead of ass-evil and de guzman please
-ecks is a beast - love him!

Dead proud we got as far as we did and we were always a longshot to win last night, but by Thunder we gave them something to think about, went into hostile territory and ouplayed the top team in Mexico for the 1st half til we pressed the big red self-destruct button.

Let's hope for a reaction in Montreal to reward all the faithful travelling support (can' t wait!)

At first I was glad to see that passion from the staff, but you're right, when you start losing it like that it sets a tone and it was from that point forward that the team started to crumble.

I'm not disappointed per se but I'm disappointed in the way they lost in that they really looked the part for the first 45 minutes and I couldn't believe my eyes.

Jack
04-05-2012, 08:55 AM
Watch the Game in Six starting from about 2:58 to see what I mean about us letting the guy have all the time and space in the world.

Anyway, I agree with several of Cityboy's points. Our offence was firing last night and Soolsma is doing a great job. Deceptively quick, good in tight spaces and able to get the cross in with only a foot or two of space. He's really good at getting defenders off balance to get himself that extra bit of daylight.

I ask myself where Koev is going to be on Saturday. The front line of Johnson, Silva and Soolsma was our most effective of the season. Johnson's mobility really complements the speed of Plata and the craftiness of Soolsma. I suppose it's a nice problem to have.

Dunfield is better than JDG. Look at the salary differences. Wow.

Aceval still isn't settled. I don't think he's a bad player, but I don't think he communicates very well.

Harden was our best defender on the night. That does not bode well for our chances. No knock on Ty, as he's doing the most he can given his limited gifts, but he should not be our best defender in any game, ever.

Morgan didn't have a good game after having a monster last week.

After the 4th goal, I stopped watching. I was probably going to through something through my TV screen at JDG.

Plata is a big game player. Look at the games where he's had multiple goals.

Yohan
04-05-2012, 08:56 AM
I thought the referee and linesmen were excellent. Didn't let the Mexicans get away with their diving early on so they stopped.
Goal #2 was onside - I thought offside initially but rewound at HT and he was level with ecks when the ball was played (tho he was goalside of Harden hence it's easy to think he was off).
Goal 3 was a clear penalty- no need to make the challenge- stay on your feet, force the striker out wide. The only bloody time that useless twat jdg comes back and look what happened. Last time I criticise him for jogging back slow.
Goal 4 was handball in the box but why the fuck was a 6' tall defender heading a ball that was 2 feet off the ground. I pine for Nick Garcia sometimes.

Nope- can't hang this on the reffing crew- wish he reffed in MLS tbh.

thought goal 4 was a harsh call. by the book, the ref made the correct call, but not necessarily the right call as if Aceval didn't use his hands to protect himself from the fall, he'd have given himself a concussion or something

zeelaw
04-05-2012, 08:57 AM
Just gonna say 2 things stuck out. That goal right before HT took away all the confidence... and JDG's great foul.

Beach_Red
04-05-2012, 09:03 AM
At first I was glad to see that passion from the staff, but you're right, when you start losing it like that it sets a tone and it was from that point forward that the team started to crumble.

I'm not disappointed per se but I'm disappointed in the way they lost in that they really looked the part for the first 45 minutes and I couldn't believe my eyes.

It seemed like a calculated move that didn't work out. Sure, it sets a tone, but sometimes in a positve way. Everyone knew that the second half was going to be a lot different from the first. Maybe it's something to watch for, that instead of getting the team pulling together and fired up that was when the crumbling really started, but maybe they were just outmatched and it was going that way anyway and the coaches were just trying everything.

Stouffville_RPB
04-05-2012, 09:12 AM
Henry is the future at CB, Winter better start playing him NOW.

With the display at the U23's and last night he has earned a shot to show what he can do.

I went into last night with ZERO expectations of even coming away with a result. The fact that we went up 1-0 and then 2-1 in a semi final in Mexico, when we had didn't score against SJ or Columbus, was a thrill. I'm proud of the boys for making it this far.

What did hurt is knowing that we could be in the final right now. We gifted them their first 5 goals with either below average defending or bone head plays.

Dreadlocks
04-05-2012, 09:14 AM
Really disappointed but I'm still proud of the boys!

One of the things that set the teams apart (aside from 2 players who play two of the most important positions fucking up consistently throughout the match - not just on the penalties) was big game experience. Haven't heard anyone on here mention this and I think it's a pretty big factor.

I think the team will be better becasue of this loss and it will be clear NEXT YEAR WHEN WE ARE IN THE FINALS!!

GO REDS!

billyfly
04-05-2012, 09:18 AM
Why did I get excited at 2-1? Why was I so naive?

Yohan
04-05-2012, 09:20 AM
http://www.mlssoccer.com/ccl/news/article/2012/04/05/ccl-gomez-steals-show-praises-tfcs-heart

Hercules Gomez being all gracious and stuff

ensco
04-05-2012, 09:23 AM
Why did I get excited at 2-1? Why was I so naive?

Because a 2 goal advantage at the stroke of halftime is enough to see a team through 80% of the time.

billyfly
04-05-2012, 09:26 AM
Because a 2 goal advantage at the stroke of halftime is enough to see a team through 80% of the time.

ALAS.....

JonO
04-05-2012, 09:37 AM
thought goal 4 was a harsh call. by the book, the ref made the correct call, but not necessarily the right call as if Aceval didn't use his hands to protect himself from the fall, he'd have given himself a concussion or something
This is where i disagree and think it was the refs only real bad call on the night. The rule is that the handball has to intentional (at least as i understand it). Hard to tell for sure, but you could see the ref motioning like he thought aceval intentionally hit the ball, but from all angles i saw it was incidental.

Jack
04-05-2012, 09:41 AM
http://www.mlssoccer.com/ccl/news/article/2012/04/05/ccl-gomez-steals-show-praises-tfcs-heart

Hercules Gomez being all gracious and stuff
I give the guy credit. He's a hell of a player, he plays for his team with all his heart, he loves the supporters and he is gracious in victory.

ManUtd4ever
04-05-2012, 09:43 AM
I'm still reeling from last night's meltdown in Mexico. The bitterness will eventually fade away, but as Craig Forrest aptly pointed out last night, Santos Laguna was there for the taking, and we collectively shot ourselves in the foot several times.

T-boy
04-05-2012, 09:44 AM
This is where i disagree and think it was the refs only real bad call on the night. The rule is that the handball has to intentional (at least as i understand it). Hard to tell for sure, but you could see the ref motioning like he thought aceval intentionally hit the ball, but from all angles i saw it was incidental.

In any case, this should have been Kocic ball and he should have called for it. The little chip towards the box wasn't any danger at all, and yet we made it dangerous somehow!

Yohan
04-05-2012, 09:47 AM
This is where i disagree and think it was the refs only real bad call on the night. The rule is that the handball has to intentional (at least as i understand it). Hard to tell for sure, but you could see the ref motioning like he thought aceval intentionally hit the ball, but from all angles i saw it was incidental.
it's intentional that Aceval moved his hands to the ball, regardless of whether he was trying to protect himself or not.


Handling the ball involves a deliberate act of a player making contact with the ball with his hand or arm. The referee must take the following into consideration:
• the movement of the hand towards the ball (not the ball towards the hand)
• the distance between the opponent and the ball (unexpected ball)
• the position of the hand does not necessarily mean that there is an infringement

canadian_bhoy
04-05-2012, 09:54 AM
I'd also like to take this opportunity to say how much i hate Dobson and Forests commentary.

It's clear that the old boy Canadian soccer gang hates TFC. They're jealous of the success of the club and don't really give MLSE credit as being "real" soccer dudes like Bob Lenarduzzi. If you want proof, just listen to a CAnada game vs a TFC game. It's night and day.


It was so frustrating to listen to them be so negative - and just sit back and wait for the ball to drop. Then when it did, they were more than happy to say "I told you so".

Im not saying these guys should be homers, but it would be nice if they at least reveled in TFC's presence at this stage in the tournament rather than constantly saying that it was a fluke.

Beach_Red
04-05-2012, 09:59 AM
I'd also like to take this opportunity to say how much i hate Dobson and Forests commentary.

It's clear that the old boy Canadian soccer gang hates TFC. They're jealous of the success of the club and don't really give MLSE credit as being "real" soccer dudes like Bob Lenarduzzi. If you want proof, just listen to a CAnada game vs a TFC game. It's night and day.


It was so frustrating to listen to them be so negative - and just sit back and wait for the ball to drop. Then when it did, they were more than happy to say "I told you so".

Im not saying these guys should be homers, but it would be nice if they at least reveled in TFC's presence at this stage in the tournament rather than constantly saying that it was a fluke.

I'll second this. And I've never heard a commentator try so hard for the jynx - Dobson is the kind of guy who talks about a no-hitter or a shut-out. He's constantly going on about what will happen, "If they hang on for the win," and then, like you say, has a real "I told you so" vibe.

Derko
04-05-2012, 10:02 AM
It looked onside to me. The real issue on that goal was how much time our forwards and midfield gave the passer to pick out the pass. Watch the buildup and see everyone standing waiting for the whistle instead of hurrying the pass. We gave them way too much time on the ball. Yes, individual errors killed us, but that sort of play allowed them to expose our weak defense.

Totally agree with the highlighted statement, The referee is not going to blow the whistle with TFc allowing Sanos to move forward with the ball, had the forwards pressured Santos as they moved forward and forced a back pass or lateral pass, the referee would have blown the whistle, I don't get it.

Redpunkfiddle
04-05-2012, 10:02 AM
Time to pull out this guy. Looking forward to May and going at it again.

OKEcw5foCfM

Roogsy
04-05-2012, 10:04 AM
I thought the referee and linesmen were excellent. Didn't let the Mexicans get away with their diving early on so they stopped.
Goal #2 was onside - I thought offside initially but rewound at HT and he was level with ecks when the ball was played (tho he was goalside of Harden hence it's easy to think he was off).
Goal 3 was a clear penalty- no need to make the challenge- stay on your feet, force the striker out wide. The only bloody time that useless twat jdg comes back and look what happened. Last time I criticise him for jogging back slow.
Goal 4 was handball in the box but why the fuck was a 6' tall defender heading a ball that was 2 feet off the ground. I pine for Nick Garcia sometimes.

Nope- can't hang this on the reffing crew- wish he reffed in MLS tbh.

I pretty much agree with everything in this post. I thought the refs were pretty good too. I can't agree with the complaints about the refs. We beat ourselves in this game.

I take comfort in the first half. Highly entertaining. Crazy stuff really. I was jumping off my sofa and then screaming in agony. Everything footy should be.

The 2nd half was a debacle. But not unexpected. They were clinical in their finish. We made some mistakes that were costly.

The one thing I will say is that I won't crap on Aceval too much. Let's remember he scored the goal that tied the game at home. Hero one day, scapegoat the next. I'd rather keep a composed head about our players as long as they give 100%. We needed defenders. We have a good one, which Aceval still is. The problem with defenders is that they are always the ones getting blasted over goals (which are going to happen folks) but when they play well (or even score like Aceval did), get little glory.

Granted, he did not have the greatest of games, but the backline works as a unit and overall they were picked apart by an extremely competent club in Santos Laguna. And it was obvious they had a strategy coming into this game that they kept applying all game long. That puts pressure on the backline and needed an adjustment from Winter that did not happen. Still, I take great pleasure in seeing Morgan and even Henry coming on as a sub, hoping that this means better things for them and the future of this club.

I will agree with one other post here though. I didn't realize it until much later, but Ensco is right, why DID the ref add 2 minutes at the end of the first half?

Roogsy
04-05-2012, 10:07 AM
Time to pull out this guy. Looking forward to May and going at it again.

OKEcw5foCfM

:smilielol5:

OMG CLASSIC!

Jack
04-05-2012, 10:08 AM
I will agree with one other post here though. I didn't realize it until much later, but Ensco is right, why DID the ref add 2 minutes at the end of the first half?
Three goals and a sub?

JonO
04-05-2012, 10:08 AM
it's intentional that Aceval moved his hands to the ball, regardless of whether he was trying to protect himself or not.
The rule is that the handball must be intentional - hand to ball is a factor the ref must consider, but is not conclusive.

Roogsy
04-05-2012, 10:10 AM
Plata is a big game player. Look at the games where he's had multiple goals.

Mi Paisano!

http://www.crossed-flag-pins.com/genimg/flaggen/Ecuador-240-animated-flag-gifs.gif


Is it me or does Platita have like the LOWEST centre of gravity on a person not qualified as a "little person"?

It's actually really interesting to watch. He fell once and it was like instantly he was right up because he didn't have far to fall! LMAO!

Blakfish
04-05-2012, 10:10 AM
Valiant effort in the first half. The boys went out looking for blood and we controlled the pace of the game for the first 45 minutes. Aceval really should have done better for their first goal.. Got the wrong side of Gomez and just let him go. Rule one of defending, never let the attacker get goal-side, and that's exactly what he let him do. The ball bounced nicely for Gomez, but even from that position I thought Aceval could have done more to stop the threat.

Santos' second goal was arguably offside, but they did the very same thing in the first game - play down the throats of the CB's and beat them for pace when the ball is played to them. Thought Kocic may have done a little better, but let's not take anything away from Gomez - the lad is class. When you score in the 43rd minute you HAVE to ensure you're going in at the break without conceding another. I think that goal right at the death of the first half changed things for us. If we went got to half time 2-1 up, the game would have been hugely different in the second half.

The less said about the penalties the better. Horrifically clumsy challenge by De Guzman (you really cannot argue that it wasn't a penalty - clear as day), and then a total lapse in concentration by Aceval (again). I wonder if Milos didn't give him a shout to let him know he was behind. Under no pressure whatsoever, what he did made absolutely NO sense and was one of the worst things I've seen in football this season. That killed the game off. No idea why Plata came off at 4-2... I guess AW decided to concentrate on the weekend and admit defeat. Not the sort of thing you should be doing when you have nothing to lose by going all out.

Overall, brave, brave effort initially but a couple of very silly, avoidable mistakes cost us the game. Few things to work on at the training ground that's for sure.

Roogsy
04-05-2012, 10:11 AM
Three goals and a sub?

Maybe... *sigh*

Damn this team...they had me believing for a second.

Dv23
04-05-2012, 10:14 AM
I can't really say any better what has already been said multiple times here. What a great start we had, only to shoot ourselves in the foot. Not just one foot. Both feet, a hand, and the face.

What a great run it was up until here. But really. We could have been in the finals after last night.

Jack
04-05-2012, 10:16 AM
they had me believing for a second.
That's what killed me last night.

Yohan
04-05-2012, 10:18 AM
That's what killed me last night.

*le sigh*

this club is so much of a cock tease

iy12l
04-05-2012, 10:19 AM
Stinson looked good in the midfield and Doneil looked good too

Dv23
04-05-2012, 10:19 AM
I said this yesterday in the pre-game thread. God, I scare myself sometimes, my dreams are so accurate.


I had a dream we went up 1-0 in this game. I think we scored a second at some point. Not sure about Santos's final tally, though.

Carts
04-05-2012, 10:21 AM
First off, I'm EXTREMELY PROUD of MY TEAM and to be honest MYSELF and OTHERS IN THIS GROUP as well...

I never predicted 'doom & gloom' even though we were massive underdogs & expected to lose. I tried to rally us supporters and the lads (who lets be honest, read the public areas) and enjoyed having HOPE instead of pecimism... I got to enjoy the entire run much more than many, not just the wins but the lead up and the matches, as many just had the attitude "we're gonna lose" then were happy when we won...

For those who believed and hoped with me - WE & the LADS HAD A HELL OF A RUN...!!!

Oh the "what ifs" of this game...
+ What if we had Frings... What if we had Koevermans...
+ What if JDG didn't jump in with a foolish/needless tackle...
+ What if the ref waived play on at the point of the 2nd penalty, which many refs would - and some refs call...
+ What if we made it into the 2nd half up 2-1...
+ What if Winter didn't play our starters on Saturday for 90-mins! There would be more gas in the tank...
But "what ifs" are not the reality unfortunately...

Some thoughts...

+ Other than the 2nd PK call (which I didn't like, incidental contact that didn't take away a scoring chance or movement) I thought the official had a good night. Linesmen too - on most replays he was spot on, a couple each way off, but that's a regular game. The first PK, no brainer penalty, and a STUPID play from a veteran and a DP... Tough to eat that...

+ When we were level or down in the 1st half, PRESSURE led to POSITIVE PLAY... No pressure led to the ball in the back of our net...

+ The crowd at Joes was great. Those there were the true heart of the supporters (for our group) as we went with our heads high, hopes up, and prayers in our hearts - we weren't saying "we won't win this match" and being miserable, we got to enjoy ourselves (even if we knew in our brains, a win was highly unlikely)...

I hope the lads know that for every "we'll get killed" and "we won't win this match, 4-1 Santos" negative sad style post - there are those of us who were with them with our hearts, minds, voices, and souls, even though we were thousands of miles away...

WELL IN LADS... For those of us who believed, you gave us something to believe in and enjoy - for those who didn't, well they can take heart that in their misery they can say 'told ya so'. I'll take hope, passion, pride, and fun - over negativity, sadness, and smugness anyday...

Carts...

jabbronies
04-05-2012, 10:26 AM
Dobson + Forrest = Shit
Aceval + Harden = Shit (gave up 4 goals collectively)
Our Central Midfield (DeGuzman, Dunfield, Silva) last night = Shit (non-existent)

- The thing that makes Soolsma good is a combination of his size and ball skill. Can't believe I said that. His small touches on the ball to move to open space to make a cross of just out maneuver a defender (or 3) is so basic and simple that it fucking works!

- Was nice to see Plata play the way he did last night. He was starting to fade, hopefully last night is the turning point he needed to continue where he left of

- Kocic has my 100% confidence for the rest of the season.

Eastend
04-05-2012, 10:27 AM
You can fix mistakes and hopefully get rid of brain farts. With that out of the way we win last night. Proud of how far the boys went. We will be back.

Now on to MLS.


Dom

jloome
04-05-2012, 10:28 AM
We were let down by a handful of individual performances, elevated by a handful of others. It was a good performance up until about the 48 minute mark, which is when every team seems to start to fade and lose intensity in Mexico. I don't blame the heat or elevation, just the professionalism and focus.

Soolsma, Eckersley and Plata were excellent. Johnston looked a bit lost. Silva is a good technical player, but his defensive read is truly awful. I can honestly see him becoming a striker, his defensive read is so bad. Soolsma, on the other hand, was a fucking demon. I think that's why Winter took him out in the last game: when he just plods down the wing and pumps in crosses, he's nowhere near as effective as when he cuts inside, dishes off the ball, comes back on defence. Great game.

Harden was OK all night. Recovered nicely twice to break up chances. Aceval was a disgrace to professional football; that bad. If anyone saw him overseas, they'd assume we were being punked by Sascha Baron Cohen. DeGuzman's second half was of similarly disgraceful calibre. He stopped running and was playing catchup on defence (although, again, he was covering Aceval's man on the trip).

We need a stud CB. We get that -- or a cohesive pairing of starters (maybe cann and emory, neither of whom has had a game as bad that I remember -- ever -- as Aceval's today. And that's with Emory's soft goal last week) we might still make the playoffs.

Jack
04-05-2012, 10:28 AM
I'm proud of our boys, but I'm very disappointed in a few things that happened. And JDG.

Yohan
04-05-2012, 10:29 AM
I think we can rest the debate whether Soolsma sucks or not. This lad can play. Involved in both goals (corner for 1st goal, that inch perfect pass with outside of his boot for 2nd)

He reminds me of one Dutch winger who used to make mincemeat out of TFC back in the day named Dave van den Bergh (but with a right foot instead of left)

Canary10
04-05-2012, 10:34 AM
JDG should be benched for Saturday and the reason for it made clear.

I think using a DP slot for a central defender is a recipe for disaster. There would be such an expectation on that person that they will never meet. They'd end up being run out of town.

Suds
04-05-2012, 10:35 AM
So I just logged on and don't have time to scan all the threads.

Is everyone freaking out? Who are we firing today? Who sucks this week?

Coles notes please. :D

Juanito
04-05-2012, 10:35 AM
Carts summed it up. Last night with the Joe's lads was great.

I'm proud of the lads. We tried to take it to them and for a moment there, we were in euphoria thinking we were through to the final.

Football. She is a cold, merciless bitch, but we all lover her!

Canary10
04-05-2012, 10:35 AM
"I think we can rest the debate whether Soolsma sucks or not. This lad can play. Involved in both goals (corner for 1st goal, that inch perfect pass with outside of his boot for 2nd)

He reminds me of one Dutch winger who used to make mincemeat out of TFC back in the day named Dave van den Bergh (but with a right foot instead of left)"

Soolsma's lay off to Plata was one of the nicest passes I've seen in a while. Really deft touch from him. That was a sweet goal.

Eastend
04-05-2012, 10:35 AM
Dobson + Forrest = Shit .

X 1,000,000.

Just aweful. I actually blame them for the loss.

If anyone is on twitter, can you #yousuck them please?

Jack
04-05-2012, 10:36 AM
JDG should be benched for Saturday and the reason for it made clear.

I think using a DP slot for a central defender is a recipe for disaster. There would be such an expectation on that person that they will never meet. They'd end up being run out of town.
The problem I have with that is that we need a stud back there, which is tough to find for 100k. Rafael Marquez seems to be bossing it for NYRB. He's been up and down and had some clashes, but he's settled a bit and, in the match I watched the other day, his quality was on clear display. I'd take him in a heartbeat.

Juanito
04-05-2012, 10:37 AM
Dobson + Forrest = Shit


Dobson in particular was getting to me. Captain Obvious!

Juanito
04-05-2012, 10:38 AM
The problem I have with that is that we need a stud back there, which is tough to find for 100k. Rafael Marquez seems to be bossing it for NYRB. He's been up and down and had some clashes, but he's settled a bit and, in the match I watched the other day, his quality was on clear display. I'd take him in a heartbeat.

To think we gave up Cronin for JDG.

Oh well, if "ifs" and "buts" were candy and nuts, we'd all have a Happy Christmas.

Yohan
04-05-2012, 10:39 AM
The problem I have with that is that we need a stud back there, which is tough to find for 100k. Rafael Marquez seems to be bossing it for NYRB. He's been up and down and had some clashes, but he's settled a bit and, in the match I watched the other day, his quality was on clear display. I'd take him in a heartbeat.

fuck no. Marquez is in the running for worst DP ever.

Too slow (and don't give enough fuck on CB). at DM he's better, but Teemu Tainio is outplaying him.

Canary10
04-05-2012, 10:39 AM
The problem I have with that is that we need a stud back there, which is tough to find for 100k. Rafael Marquez seems to be bossing it for NYRB. He's been up and down and had some clashes, but he's settled a bit and, in the match I watched the other day, his quality was on clear display. I'd take him in a heartbeat.

It's so hit and miss. Even Marquez was almost run out last year. There would be ZERO margin of error. Unless we could get Puyol, Kompany or Vidic or someone, I think the risk is too big. The LA model with Gonzalez is probably more realistic.

Jack
04-05-2012, 10:44 AM
fuck no. Marquez is in the running for worst DP ever.

Too slow (and don't give enough fuck on CB). at DM he's better, but Teemu Tainio is outplaying him.
Worst DP ever? Sorry, Yohan, but I do not agree with that assessment. We only need to look to TFC for two DPs who have been infinitely worse than Marquez. He had a bit of a rough ride last season, but watch him this year. The guy's a very good player and I would gladly have him on our team.


It's so hit and miss. Even Marquez was almost run out last year. There would be ZERO margin of error. Unless we could get Puyol, Kompany or Vidic or someone, I think the risk is too big. The LA model with Gonzalez is probably more realistic.

Another solid option, I agree.

Yohan
04-05-2012, 10:44 AM
It's so hit and miss. Even Marquez was almost run out last year. There would be ZERO margin of error. Unless we could get Puyol, Kompany or Vidic or someone, I think the risk is too big. The LA model with Gonzalez is probably more realistic.

The LA model showed huge flaw. Without Gonzo, LA defence looks just about good as TFC defence. The way New England ripped apart LA defence in LA was comical.

ManUtd4ever
04-05-2012, 10:46 AM
In fairness to JDG, he has played very well throughout the CCL tournament. Unfortunately, he picked the worst possible match to shit the bed.

Yohan
04-05-2012, 10:47 AM
Worst DP ever? Sorry, Yohan, but I do not agree with that assessment. We only need to look to TFC for two DPs who have been infinitely worse than Marquez. He had a bit of a rough ride last season, but watch him this year. The guy's a very good player and I would gladly have him on our team.

for the money Marquez makes? Marquez makes 4.6 million per year. For that kind of money, you wouldn't expect NY's defence to suck like it does right now. NY definitely isn't getting value out of Marquez.

The amount of drama and shenanigans he brings, and just plain attitude problem, I would never ever want Marquez for TFC. (and I've seen quite a few NY games this year)

Couchy81
04-05-2012, 10:51 AM
Two of Frings plus Koevs sounds good right about now a far as our 3 DP slots.

reggie
04-05-2012, 10:53 AM
1 win in 7 games people.same old story.horrible central d...the one thing we had to improve on from last season was our C D s,big fail by AW and PM.
bring back velez and garcia,cant be any worse.
i think we will be nice canadian boys and give mtl there first mls win like we did last year with van.

Jack
04-05-2012, 10:54 AM
for the money Marquez makes? Marquez makes 4.6 million per year. For that kind of money, you wouldn't expect NY's defence to suck like it does right now. NY definitely isn't getting value out of Marquez.

The amount of drama and shenanigans he brings, and just plain attitude problem, I would never ever want Marquez for TFC. (and I've seen quite a few NY games this year)
He's only played two games this season after his suspension. They've won both.

Canary10
04-05-2012, 10:55 AM
The LA model showed huge flaw. Without Gonzo, LA defence looks just about good as TFC defence. The way New England ripped apart LA defence in LA was comical.

By model I mean developing a young player into the position instead of spending DP money on it. Houston may be a better example.

Yohan
04-05-2012, 10:55 AM
He's only played two games this season after his suspension. They've won both.not due to Marquez. Henry playing like man possessed and Cooper catching fire.

Jack
04-05-2012, 11:00 AM
not due to Marquez. Henry playing like man possessed and Cooper catching fire.
Still, you can't blame him being the reason for their bad D.

Also, read some of the NY articles. They've pretty much got their DPs on the same page now, with Henry playing like he's interested and Rafa enthusiastic about being there. I agree he's had a bad time of it, but to deny his ability as a player is not realistic. If he is committed and playing hard, he is a beast. Hopefully, for our sake, that doesn't happen.

Oldtimer
04-05-2012, 11:07 AM
This match actually showed that Santos Laguna has a consistent home strategy, (that they also used against Montreal):

1. Make the other team run hard
2. By the second half, when they are good and tired and the altitude (it's not Mexico City but it's still high) and the temperature has worn them out, step up the pace and apply more pressure.
3. Punish the invariable defensive mistakes.

SL wins their home and away matches in the last 45 minutes of their home play. This happened to Montreal, Seattle, and now TFC.

Yohan
04-05-2012, 11:08 AM
Still, you can't blame him being the reason for their bad D.
lol. I think I could... if I base it on Marquez's time at NY so far. there is a reason why most NY supporters prefer Teemu Tainio at DM, which is apparently best of Marquez's position right now


Also, read some of the NY articles. They've pretty much got their DPs on the same page now, with Henry playing like he's interested and Rafa enthusiastic about being there. I agree he's had a bad time of it, but to deny his ability as a player is not realistic. If he is committed and playing hard, he is a beast. Hopefully, for our sake, that doesn't happen.

good thing Marquez got injured last game vs Montreal? (for groin. dunno how long he's out for)

Yohan
04-05-2012, 11:16 AM
another bit of trivia. Plata is tied for Golden Boot at 6 goals, along with Peralta and Gomez from Santos Laguna. likely won't last, but at least it's something for little Plata

Dv23
04-05-2012, 11:25 AM
That's a nice little bit of trivia. Congrats to him. RJ is up there too, if I'm not mistaken?

jabbronies
04-05-2012, 11:26 AM
JDG should be benched for Saturday and the reason for it made clear.

I think using a DP slot for a central defender is a recipe for disaster. There would be such an expectation on that person that they will never meet. They'd end up being run out of town.


Ummm.... Isn't Frings a defensive Midfielder??

Canary10
04-05-2012, 11:36 AM
Ummm.... Isn't Frings a defensive Midfielder??

Yeah, not a central defender.

The number of goals Ty Harden gets implicated in allowing > the actual number of goals he had any direct involvement in. Put a DP tag on a CB and he'll be the lightning rod for every goal scored against us.

Yohan
04-05-2012, 11:45 AM
That's a nice little bit of trivia. Congrats to him. RJ is up there too, if I'm not mistaken?

RJ has 5

jabbronies
04-05-2012, 11:54 AM
Yeah, not a central defender.

The number of goals Ty Harden gets implicated in allowing > the actual number of goals he had any direct involvement in. Put a DP tag on a CB and he'll be the lightning rod for every goal scored against us.

A DP central Defender wouldn't make the rookie mistakes we are seeing from our current CB's.
We have no general back there, that is why Frings is being used as a CB. He is controlling not only his position, but dictating every other defensive position on the pitch.

if we had a real DP CB, I would be surprised to see the types of breakdowns we had yesterday.

IMO if you are going to get 3 DPs they should line the line the middle of the pitch - CB - MF - ST
That way the spine of the team is solid. They control every aspect of the game - offense, Ball movement and Defense.

ensco
04-05-2012, 11:58 AM
Three goals and a sub?

Goals don't count towards stoppage time. Excessive goal celebrations do (in addition to injuries and substitutions and time wasting). By convention, subs count for 30 seconds.

Jcm144
04-05-2012, 12:03 PM
Those penalties killed us, such an unfortunate set of mistakes.

__wowza
04-05-2012, 12:18 PM
proud of the boys, proud of them for making it this far.
win or lose, we've played some of the best football i've ever seen us play in this champions league.

let's port that over to the league, and get focused on qualifying for next year!!

J .
04-05-2012, 01:01 PM
Just want to point out Harden and Aceval had very little support from Morgan or Ecks. I know ppl love those two, but leaving our CBs alone with no support is disasterous and has been disasterous since day one. Why it works with Frings is because it becomes a 3-5 man backline depending on the situation.

Yet we leave Harden and Aceval out to dry because 1v1 against quality players they will make mistakes when its inevitable at some point over 90 they will err versus good quality. All players do, worldwide.

From MoJo to Winter, six years later, this clubs obsession to profess ourselves an attacking club and throwing our backs bombing forward, leaving the back line exposed or putting our D 1v1 against quality strikers kills us. Moreover, when we dont put pressure on the ball carrier in the middle 3rd teams carve that space open to the weak side of that defender putting players in on breakaways.

Until we get a manager like Kinnear or Schmid who preaches a balanced approach starting from the backline, we will be entertained but we will continue to lose. Unless Winter preaches shape and positioning or our league worst goal differential is going to get worse and will look alot like last year.

Also, it is JDGs fault we lost. We were through at HT. The team was defending well. Worst tackle ever. That penalty killed the team. Im not over it and he should quit. He has done that enough over the years its time. The only salvation is if he bucks the trend since he arrived, but he wont so its time to go.

Santos didnt deserve the win other than their players had the character to not give up when their mental fortitude was questioned. Ours did. So i guess SL deserved to win in the end.

Yohan
04-05-2012, 01:08 PM
Santos didnt deserve the win other than their players had the character to not give up when their mental fortitude was questioned. Ours did. So i guess SL deserved to win in the end.

Soolsma was raping their LB so much that Benjamin Galindo had to sub him out in like 30th min

J .
04-05-2012, 01:12 PM
Soolsma was raping their LB so much that Benjamin Galindo had to sub him out in like 30th min

Im not blaming Soolsma, hes been a much better player. Disappeared in the 2nd half, but then again after the first penalty so did TFC.

Yohan
04-05-2012, 01:14 PM
Im not blaming Soolsma, hes been a much better player. Disappeared in the 2nd half, but then again after the first penalty so did TFC.
I should have been clear.

TFC was giving Santos so much trouble that Santos manager used one of his subs in 1st half to make tactical adjustments

J .
04-05-2012, 01:19 PM
I should have been clear.

TFC was giving Santos so much trouble that Santos manager used one of his subs in 1st half to make tactical adjustments

Very good move by the SL manager I thought. Also, the wide mid started to track back further so sools had to beat two, not one player.

Good management from Galindo to identify a problem and provide a solution.

Yohan
04-05-2012, 01:23 PM
Very good move by the SL manager I thought. Also, the wide mid started to track back further so sools had to beat two, not one player.

Good management from Galindo to identify a problem and provide a solution.I thought so too, even though this didn't stop Soolsma from assisting on Plata's 2nd goal. Too bad TFC didn't adjust enough to exploit the gap left by double teaming of Soolsma

TorontoPat
04-05-2012, 02:03 PM
So are we that bad or was Santos that good? What I saw was, Santos is a one trick pony. Lob the ball high overhead, their forwards (Hercules) then try for the breakaway. They must had did this 15 times in the first 65 minutes, result 2 goals.They did it most of the first game as well.

Anyway could we get them to go offside even once? I think we didn't, I think they completed 15 for 15. I understand they were able to score on their two penalty shots, not that difficult really. Anything that happened after can't be assessed accurately. Afterall when we were faced with having to score twice in the last 20 minutes, we had to play a little differently.

So is that all Santos could do is the one breakaway play, or is that all they had to do so they didn't bother with other tactics?

Yohan
04-05-2012, 02:16 PM
So are we that bad or was Santos that good? What I saw was, Santos is a one trick pony. Lob the ball high overhead, their forwards (Hercules) then try for the breakaway. They must had did this 15 times in the first 65 minutes, result 2 goals.They did it most of the first game as well.

Anyway could we get them to go offside even once? I think we didn't, I think they completed 15 for 15. I understand they were able to score on their two penalty shots, not that difficult really. Anything that happened after can't be assessed accurately. Afterall when we were faced with having to score twice in the last 20 minutes, we had to play a little differently.

So is that all Santos could do is the one breakaway play, or is that all they had to do so they didn't bother with other tactics?
they scouted Toronto well

QSIM
04-05-2012, 02:19 PM
Gutted. But looking back through this CCL adventure, I can smile.

Canary10
04-05-2012, 02:32 PM
So are we that bad or was Santos that good? What I saw was, Santos is a one trick pony. Lob the ball high overhead, their forwards (Hercules) then try for the breakaway. They must had did this 15 times in the first 65 minutes, result 2 goals.They did it most of the first game as well.

Anyway could we get them to go offside even once? I think we didn't, I think they completed 15 for 15. I understand they were able to score on their two penalty shots, not that difficult really. Anything that happened after can't be assessed accurately. Afterall when we were faced with having to score twice in the last 20 minutes, we had to play a little differently.

So is that all Santos could do is the one breakaway play, or is that all they had to do so they didn't bother with other tactics?

My cat could have figured out that strategy....

Santos is fine to play on the deck and beat you through quick interplay too. Actually thought TFC did a very good job negating that part of their game. Which should be a route to a win, as defending lobbed long balls should be much easier to do.

los sonadores
04-05-2012, 04:59 PM
Pretty great 1st half... less the (overlong) extra time. I think they could have righted themselves in the 2nd half if it hadn't been for the penalty. We need two better starting central defenders... maybe much better. Even 11-1 odds were optimistic so I guess I'll take a half of really respectable football over the crap we mostly played in the Mo era. Soolsma was excellent once he settled in... and that the guy was playing only amateur football on Sundays not long ago - Winter is responsible for his career.

flatpicker
04-05-2012, 05:13 PM
Proud of Toronto for getting as far as they did.
Now I just want to focus on getting the season on track.
And hopefully Cann will actually help improve things.
And hopefully Frings has a speedy recovery.

AlanO
04-05-2012, 05:33 PM
Although the scoreline was similar to Santos' thumping of Seattle, our boys put up a much better fight. Great run through the whole tourney.

Aceval had a stinker, but at least he was trying. Can't say the same for De Guzman though. His second half was horrifying, and he completely surrendered in the last 10-15 minutes.

Soolsma had a good game - that pass on the second goal was amazing. Dunfield played very well, too. Henry made a good impression in his short time on the field, forcing Santos to make a couple goal-line clearances.

Onwards and upwards!

Fort York Redcoat
04-05-2012, 05:35 PM
Also, it is JDGs fault we lost. We were through at HT. The team was defending well. Worst tackle ever. That penalty killed the team. Im not over it and he should quit. He has done that enough over the years its time. The only salvation is if he bucks the trend since he arrived, but he wont so its time to go.

Santos didnt deserve the win other than their players had the character to not give up when their mental fortitude was questioned. Ours did. So i guess SL deserved to win in the end.

"Worst tackle ever"? Not even the worst tackle our team has done this season. It was barely mistimed but it was early. Why was JDG covering in the first place? Wasn't that the complaint? That our CB's weren't being babied enough?

Mental fortitude? Are you saying they just didn't want it enough? I think it had to do with how much pace was lost trying to chase the ball back so we could play the possesion game. The one that that was working the first half.

There was plenty of points in that match to change the outcome. Like that offside goal at the end of the first half.

Santos did deserve the win. Mostly because they won.

Jack
04-05-2012, 06:29 PM
It wasn't offside from the videos I've seen. Ecks kept Gomez on.

ag futbol
04-05-2012, 07:45 PM
Man, I can't believe this thread has followed the path of blaming our players and the ref (in a game we lost by a mile? lol).

Good attacking will force mistakes. On the one goal, Harden is making that guy close enough by "MLS" standards, but when you're going up against quality opposition, he is more than a step too late. Seattle lost by the same aggregate score in their two leg series ... I really don't see anything crazy going on here. A team that can pay players at multiple positions more money is going to usually beat one that has to fit in a few plumbers who earn 60k.

Alonso
04-05-2012, 08:37 PM
He's hilarious to watch at a full on run, I don't know if TFC Cityboy came up with the nick name roadrunner or not but that is the perfect nickname for Plata.

He looks exactly like the roadrunner when at full speed .... lol:smilielol5:



Mi Paisano!

http://www.crossed-flag-pins.com/genimg/flaggen/Ecuador-240-animated-flag-gifs.gif


Is it me or does Platita have like the LOWEST centre of gravity on a person not qualified as a "little person"?

It's actually really interesting to watch. He fell once and it was like instantly he was right up because he didn't have far to fall! LMAO!

J .
04-05-2012, 11:51 PM
"Worst tackle ever"? Not even the worst tackle our team has done this season. It was barely mistimed but it was early. Why was JDG covering in the first place? Wasn't that the complaint? That our CB's weren't being babied enough?

Mental fortitude? Are you saying they just didn't want it enough? I think it had to do with how much pace was lost trying to chase the ball back so we could play the possesion game. The one that that was working the first half.

There was plenty of points in that match to change the outcome. Like that offside goal at the end of the first half.

Santos did deserve the win. Mostly because they won.

He ran across the field and body checked a guy in the box. It is the worst because it is the most costly and highly fucking retarded.

Mental fortitude has to do with making ridiculous challenges like that last game or Aceval belly flopping onto a ball. Or giving up when its 4-2. Heck, shitting the bed vs Columbus, where we also gave up a penalty. Or not even showing up vs SJ. We have won a single game in almost ten.

Moreover that goal was not offside. Where was the guy who was supposed to be closing down the player who made the deadly pass in who lead to the goal? I guess he wasnt closing him down.

Santos won because our players lack the character to win. They had the chance, they realized they had such a chance and fell apart.

Ill let the teams record so far this year speak for itself, believe what you may. They arent losing because they are unlucky.

tfc007
04-06-2012, 07:18 AM
I think the TFC should adopt a policy like some team in europe somewhere who was on a 17 game losing streak (not sure on this number),Well the owner or president said they wont get paid until they win! I think for every time a mistake that is made leading to a goal against us,the culprit doesnt get paid for that week.I bet you would see a huge difference in the team!I know this will never happen,but its a thought!

jloome
04-06-2012, 09:57 AM
Santos won because our players lack the character to win. They had the chance, they realized they had such a chance and fell apart.

Ill let the teams record so far this year speak for itself, believe what you may. They arent losing because they are unlucky.

I agree with the general sentiment, but I believe "they'" is really down to DeGuzman, Aceval, Harden (to a lesser extent, as he's fine most of the time) and Dunfield. They are our repeat poor performers, the most inconsistent, the most likely to brain fart and bury the rest of the team's good efforts.

It's not going to happen every game and we've played some really nice football in the other end and when we stayed compact defensively and got back quickly. But to me, we're still four starters away from being a playoff team. Logan Emory might be one, as he at least reads the game well and works hard. Cann or Doneil Henry might be another, with the latter really showing well against the U.S. and Mexico. Maybe he's ready.

I still think we need a stud CB like Bonjour, or Hurtado. It doesn't have to be a DP, just the right pick. Obviously we need more holder depth at midfield. Dunfield is strictly benchwarmer material, DeGuzman makes poor decisions in a key role; so we need a solid holder. Don't know if Silva and Burgos are ready for day in and out.

Great wings play. A major talent (albeit whiny) in Ryan Johnston. Frings. That's what we have to work with.

Not good enough.

Beach_Red
04-06-2012, 10:41 AM
I think the TFC should adopt a policy like some team in europe somewhere who was on a 17 game losing streak (not sure on this number),Well the owner or president said they wont get paid until they win! I think for every time a mistake that is made leading to a goal against us,the culprit doesnt get paid for that week.I bet you would see a huge difference in the team!I know this will never happen,but its a thought!

This is a good idea, but who would it be? TFC needs a president...

Macksam
04-06-2012, 11:53 AM
I agree with the general sentiment, but I believe "they'" is really down to DeGuzman, Aceval, Harden (to a lesser extent, as he's fine most of the time) and Dunfield. They are our repeat poor performers, the most inconsistent, the most likely to brain fart and bury the rest of the team's good efforts.

It's not going to happen every game and we've played some really nice football in the other end and when we stayed compact defensively and got back quickly. But to me, we're still four starters away from being a playoff team. Logan Emory might be one, as he at least reads the game well and works hard. Cann or Doneil Henry might be another, with the latter really showing well against the U.S. and Mexico. Maybe he's ready.

I still think we need a stud CB like Bonjour, or Hurtado. It doesn't have to be a DP, just the right pick. Obviously we need more holder depth at midfield. Dunfield is strictly benchwarmer material, DeGuzman makes poor decisions in a key role; so we need a solid holder. Don't know if Silva and Burgos are ready for day in and out.

Great wings play. A major talent (albeit whiny) in Ryan Johnston. Frings. That's what we have to work with.

Not good enough.
I thought both Henry and Nana Attakora made glaring mistakes against Mexico. However, they were decent agaisnt the United States.

DoubleUp
04-06-2012, 01:19 PM
I thought both Henry and Nana Attakora made glaring mistakes against Mexico. However, they were decent agaisnt the United States.

This is true! Henry is not ready yet, and I support the kid.

He's not ready for the bigshow game in game out.

BayernTFC
04-06-2012, 02:08 PM
Matches are played over 90 minutes, not 45. Santos Laguna is an excellent squad from a quality league. There is no shame in losing to them. Even good Mexican sides can struggle against other Mexican teams. Did anyone watch the other CCL semi-final between Monterrey and Pumas? Nick Soolsma really stepped it up and impressed me. I don't believe I've seen any other player for TFC dominate an opposing team's corner like he did on Wednesday against SL. Nick even forced Banjamin Galindo to make a tactical change before the 30th minute. I'll leave others to comment on Luis Silva's defensive deficiencies, but he was finding open spaces and managed to get on the end of several of Nick Soolsma's crosses. For a young attacking midfielder, just out of US college and only playing a handful of games with TFC, his performance against SL certainly showed that he has potential. Joao Plata was opportunistic and buried his chances. Exactly what TFC has been asking for. Plata was motivated and energetic on the defensive side, although he had some rash challenges. There were a few times, in defensive coverage, where I mistook him for JDG until I looked more closely.

BayernTFC
04-06-2012, 02:28 PM
Dunfield is strictly benchwarmer material
I think Dunfield is more suited in the CM role. On a team with Torsten Frings and Julian De Guzman, who would expect Terry to be starting at DM?


Don't know if Silva and Burgos are ready for day in and out.
It's a big jump from US College to MLS. AM is a critical role which requires a lot of vision. I think a scenario which gives them opportunities to build on progress is preferable to the baptism by fire method. I have a feeling that the real pressure on TFC to win is just starting to heat up. Silva and Burgos shouldn't be expected to carry the load, imho. Too many opportunities to lay blame and kill confidence. Even Amado Guevara disappeared at times for us.

__wowza
04-06-2012, 02:39 PM
Harden (to a lesser extent, as he's fine most of the time) and Dunfield. They are our repeat poor performers, the most inconsistent, the most likely to brain fart and bury the rest of the team's good efforts.

i think the thing that gets me most about harden is that he actually looks like he's trying most of the time. he's trying but his performance still isnt good enough for the level we're playing at. i've never seen him just walking around the pitch, and although i have seen him look lost at times, he's normally covering a man. should it be the man he's supposed to be marking? no.. but he's actively thinking it is and trying to cover him.

Roogsy
04-06-2012, 03:14 PM
I tried to do this yesterday but I hate my computer at work. So here is a screen capture of the 2nd goal by Gomez/Santos.

In my opinion, the game was well refereed.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y178/Roogs/gomezsantosonside.jpg

Everyone made mistakes. Including Ecks right here, keeping Gomez onside and not keeping the backline true. To pin it on JDG or Aceval or anyone else is exactly the opposite of what people proclaim to be the essence of soccer as a team sport. If you're going to blame one player for a loss you also have to be willing to give credit to one player for a win as well.