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View Full Version : The New Pyro Setup - Keep it or scrap it?



Code Red
03-25-2012, 11:36 PM
Hey guys,

There seems to be quite a split on the new pyro (multiple flare) setup at BMO Field that was introduced at the Home Opener. It was placed directly in front of the South Stand around the same area as the confetti/smoke machines. Some are praising it while others have filed complaints. What's your take on them?

Personally, I thought they looked great but I can see why people directly affected by the smoke weren't impressed. There were some reports of the smoke causing itchy eyes and coughing but anyone who has ever been around a flare knows all too well about that. Perhaps there can be a compromise of some sort by keeping them but placing them elsewhere? If so, where you would like see them moved? or would you rather have them removed completely?

Discuss.

RedRum
03-26-2012, 01:06 AM
Wreckless (sic).

Do they not think of the children?

Yeoman
03-26-2012, 02:36 AM
what's next? pumping chants through the pa?
turning us into seattle

Ageroo
03-26-2012, 06:52 AM
what's next? pumping chants through the pa?
turning us into seattle

Cheesy but I didn't mind it.....I am first row behind the net. A lot of smoke though...not good for my pregnant wife......but I guess she can just cover her face for a couple of minutes....lol

Petor
03-26-2012, 06:57 AM
what's next? pumping chants through the pa?
turning us into seattle

Yup pre planned, no spontinaity.

If they do keep using the flares they should use them at a turning point in the game like after a go ahead goal but not after the anthems.

And that Hercules fly over, while nice it was very American.

I have nothing against Americans but it's just not us.
To me it's just like fake Hollywood special affects, not real.

As for a solution, we need more communication with the FO.
Tell them that while it looked very nice it's just not what we want, it makes us look plastic.

Well, thats my 2 cents.

__wowza
03-26-2012, 07:54 AM
mixed messages for sure. that's all i heard about from my girlfriend when i came back "i thought they banned flares? why would they do that when they kicked people out before? what happens if someone sees those and thinks they're ok now?"

nitpicky supporter stuff, someone must've thought "hey maybe the supporters will think this is cool!" i did, but not before i thought "really? you've gotta be fucking kidding me!"

Phil
03-26-2012, 07:56 AM
Yup pre planned, no spontinaity.

If they do keep using the flares they should use them at a turning point in the game like after a go ahead goal but not after the anthems.

And that Hercules fly over, while nice it was very American.

I have nothing against Americans but it's just not us.
To me it's just like fake Hollywood special affects, not real.

As for a solution, we need more communication with the FO.
Tell them that while it looked very nice it's just not what we want, it makes us look plastic.

Well, thats my 2 cents.

I was thinking that about the post goal or something however looking at the setup, one Chad Barret type shot will be destroying those racks and making a mess. It looks pregame / kick off only in nature. FO mentioned this in a lead up meeting week of, but nothing on this scale.

The feedback here will go a long way I am sure.

prizby
03-26-2012, 08:10 AM
I loved it...keep doing it because it was something unique and some soccer related (unlike seattle who have a 50 piece band or whatever)

Brooker
03-26-2012, 08:11 AM
Couldn't care less.

Now, a warning for the flyby would have been nice. Nearly shit myself.

Yagbod
03-26-2012, 09:11 AM
Yup, the fly by had my heart in my throat. There was an 'oh shit' moment there for sure.

As to the flares: it just seems sad to me. Like some nerdy kid standing up in school after tattooing his face and yelling, "Hey everyone, look at me, I'm EXTREME!!!" There is a time and place for pyro and MLSE made it clear that it is not at BMO. So why allow it and why do it in such a silly looking way. Really? Lining 15 or so up on big candelabras? Dumb, dumb, dumb. Sounds to me like a dicision made by a suit in an office who has never seen pyro live.

Red Rat
03-26-2012, 09:14 AM
To me it looks like FO is doing everything they can to bring life back to the games, supporters and not doing it so they have to double their efforts

Fort York Redcoat
03-26-2012, 09:16 AM
I don't understand the confusion. They don't want support using flares. Support has mentioned they like flares. They use flares safely in a controlled area.

They also fire confetti into the air. I've never thought I might sneak in a confetti "Canon" into the grounds.

phonzo
03-26-2012, 09:32 AM
I think FO's intentions are in the right place; finding us alternate and safe means to do something; however I fully understand the comment that it is done without heart or feeling just for the sake of a "show".

There really are two approaches now we just say ya no thanks or we work with them to find something that satisfies everyone

Huyton
03-26-2012, 09:42 AM
Keep them, but allw the capo to determine when to set them off.

Would have looked better, too, if the smoke wasn't blown away immediately.

flatpicker
03-26-2012, 10:11 AM
I don't really care either way.
It looks decent, and I think it's still a long way from playing songs through a PA.

And yeah, the plane nearly gave me a heart attack!

London
03-26-2012, 10:20 AM
it was very WWEish

not something id like to see at every match

it's un-organic

adamdz
03-26-2012, 10:25 AM
Since its ok now, I am fabricating a steel harness that will attach to my back and hold 10 flares. Its gonna be awesome, thanks FO.

Whoop
03-26-2012, 10:43 AM
I thought it looked very amateurish, forced.

__wowza
03-26-2012, 10:43 AM
Since its ok now, I am fabricating a steel harness that will attach to my back and hold 10 flares. Its gonna be awesome, thanks FO.

was i the only person who was picturing this?

http://www.spidervillain.com/Villains/DocOct/DocOctMU3.gif

DavydMT
03-26-2012, 10:58 AM
I thought it looked very amateurish, forced.

100% agree. Unfortunately amateurish is how FO does most of things from MLS Cup Final to in-stadium promotions.

If they wanted to try flares wait for a night game and make sure there is no strong wind.

Smoke cannons were useless and flares setup is also useless, but i guess they know better.

Here is how pyro should be used, i'm not really sure what fo were trying to do.

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k82/nowak10/4a0f1317.jpg

http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/269570_238716449489239_113851521975733_897417_2999 660_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/s720x720/295982_10150359435218044_518018043_8130712_1205163 164_n.jpg

http://www.portlandtimbers.com/sites/portland/files/imagecache/620x350/image_nodes/2012/03/timbers-army.jpg

Fort York Redcoat
03-26-2012, 11:08 AM
There are no flares in the above pictures. Is it your opinion that only smoke should be used by the FO?

Phil
03-26-2012, 11:15 AM
Since its ok now, I am fabricating a steel harness that will attach to my back and hold 10 flares. Its gonna be awesome, thanks FO.

Do you have the licence and approval?

I see guys running on the pitch, doesn't mean I can do it too. The rules are very straight forward as to what we can do in the stands.

The real discussion isn't so childish, I am impressed with the questioning of the authentic nature of the display. I am okay with or without it, its another case of they can't win. If FO puts the display on, people call it plastic or fake. If they don't do stuff like this then people say they are not trying hard enough.

DavydMT
03-26-2012, 11:24 AM
There are no flares in the above pictures. Is it your opinion that only smoke should be used by the FO?

smoke, flares, fireworks or strobes are all part of pyro, that is the way i see it and all can be equally safe or damageable

all four photos have pyro (smoke) either after a goal or as part of a tifo and controlled by the groups.

in my opinion fo should do nothing in the south end.

here is a photo from the game for people who missed what we are talking about

http://i.imgur.com/T4GJo.jpg

MLS loves using footage of pyro for marketing material, they just can't figure out the balance yet.

adamdz
03-26-2012, 11:30 AM
Do you have the licence and approval?

I see guys running on the pitch, doesn't mean I can do it too. The rules are very straight forward as to what we can do in the stands.

The real discussion isn't so childish, I am impressed with the questioning of the authentic nature of the display. I am okay with or without it, its another case of they can't win. If FO puts the display on, people call it plastic or fake. If they don't do stuff like this then people say they are not trying hard enough.

In my opinion they should not do anything of that nature. It is all forced and plastic. Its all static and pre determined, Its going to be the same static display day in day out, done by the same people, at the same time.

There are ways they can help supporters do what they do, and these displays aren't it. They should stick to handing out plastic calendars, kia hats and car flags branded with mcdonalds (alot of people like that kind of stuff).

kaos197O
03-26-2012, 11:40 AM
As others have mentioned, it is a step even though it looks very forced.

Hopefully the SG's can work with FO on how to make it better though. Scatter them a bit.....give the Capo's some say in when to execute their use....and it may make the scene appear more organic and more appropriate to what's happening in the game.

DavydMT
03-26-2012, 11:45 AM
Do you have the licence and approval?

I see guys running on the pitch, doesn't mean I can do it too. The rules are very straight forward as to what we can do in the stands.

The real discussion isn't so childish, I am impressed with the questioning of the authentic nature of the display. I am okay with or without it, its another case of they can't win. If FO puts the display on, people call it plastic or fake. If they don't do stuff like this then people say they are not trying hard enough.

Most of remarks i hear from season ticket holders, supporters, friends and co-workers is that FO is not promotion this club and are very lazy with marketing (both MLS Cup and CL game is skydome are great examples). Once people are at the game no one cares what FO is doing.

RPB_RED_NATION_RPB
03-26-2012, 11:51 AM
smoke, flares, fireworks or strobes are all part of pyro, that is the way i see it and all can be equally safe or damageable

all four photos have pyro (smoke) either after a goal or as part of a tifo and controlled by the groups.

in my opinion fo should do nothing in the south end.

here is a photo from the game for people who missed what we are talking about

http://i.imgur.com/T4GJo.jpg

MLS loves using footage of pyro for marketing material, they just can't figure out the balance yet.

i liked it..but would rather it be lit after a big goal...or late in the game when we are up....puting one between 111 and 112 would be a good option too

jabbronies
03-26-2012, 12:03 PM
here is a photo from the game for people who missed what we are talking about

http://i.imgur.com/T4GJo.jpg

MLS loves using footage of pyro for marketing material, they just can't figure out the balance yet.

As I said in a previous thread, this is a step in the right direction. They are aware that flares do bring an extra excitement to the atmosphere. They have come up with a solution that they are comfortable with. Now they need to sit down with the supporters and figure out how/when/where it should be done.

SuperTCP
03-26-2012, 12:23 PM
The FO also had staff in spots around the stadium, lauching shiny streamers from plastic tubes. It was ok, but had plastic feel to it.

Whoop
03-26-2012, 12:27 PM
They didn't even do it smartly... they should have spread it out a little more if they were going to do that.

Code Red
03-26-2012, 12:42 PM
They didn't even do it smartly... they should have spread it out a little more if they were going to do that.

Exactly. It would be much better if they were spread out the length of the South Stand. I also think they should ignite them after we score. If I'm not mistaken in Chicago they have a massive fireball go off after each goal. Looks pretty epic.

Yagbod
03-26-2012, 12:44 PM
Flares only really look good in someone's hand being held aloft or waving around. The candelabra approach does not work for me.

Why not 'train' a select few who are 'licensed' to use them in a safe place with a water bucket near by? (I know why: some other nutter won't get it and bring their own)

Or better yet, TFC cheerleaders waving flares. Just imagine the Toronto Rock dancers doing routines with flares in hand. Nice...

(and yes, I am totally kidding)

DavydMT
03-26-2012, 12:47 PM
The FO also had staff in spots around the stadium, lauching shiny streamers from plastic tubes. It was ok, but had plastic feel to it.

i'm never sure what people mean by saying plastic, it is a job of fo's marketing department to sell "the experience". i prefer to say amateur and cheap, because that is how our front office is going about things. from quality of videos they produce to events they put together.

here is an example of what Seattle's FO is doing, few people refereed to them as plastic, maybe they are, i'm not the one to say. but at-least they make it look professional.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqylgmYMZ2Q

Fort York Redcoat
03-26-2012, 01:35 PM
what's next? pumping chants through the pa?
turning us into seattle


i'm never sure what people mean by saying plastic, it is a job of fo's marketing department to sell "the experience". i prefer to say amateur and cheap, because that is how our front office is going about things. from quality of videos they produce to events they put together.

here is an example of what Seattle's FO is doing, few people refereed to them as plastic, maybe they are, i'm not the one to say. but at-least they make it look professional.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqylgmYMZ2Q


So I'm gonna go ahead and predict no matter what FO does there will complaints that they could do better or/and do nothing at all.

adamdz
03-26-2012, 02:33 PM
So I'm gonna go ahead and predict no matter what FO does there will complaints that they could do better or/and do nothing at all.

Pretty much, just like we can't collectively decide on anything in the stands.

DavydMT
03-26-2012, 02:38 PM
So I'm gonna go ahead and predict no matter what FO does there will complaints that they could do better or/and do nothing at all.

i think this is going back to a conversation we had last year after home opener about place of FO in the supporters culture "Imitation is the sincerest form of..... (http://redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?27313-Imitation-is-the-sincerest-form-of-UPDATED/page2) "

and as (football supporters and paying customers) we should always expect only the best from the club on and off the pitch (off the pitch is much easier to manage)

__wowza
03-26-2012, 03:28 PM
so i'm gonna go ahead and predict no matter what fo does there will complaints that they could do better or/and do nothing at all.

it was too windy opening day. Why didn't they make it not windy!?

yellowfellow
03-26-2012, 04:00 PM
it was too windy opening day. Why didn't they make it not windy!?

Because ML$E is too cheap and don't care if the team winds or not.

DavydMT
03-26-2012, 04:06 PM
Because ML$E is too cheap and don't care if the team winds or not.

well played :D very well played.

Yeoman
03-26-2012, 06:26 PM
is it a step in some direction? sure it is
not sure if it's a step in the direction as someone who likes this stuff wants it to be or not. i'm just afraid once this keeps happening, it's all we'd ever get.
if this is their stick and carrot, they can keep it i'm not hungry.

FluSH
03-26-2012, 06:38 PM
1. It's better than having nada
2. Wasnt there because i had to work... But it looks like a cake of Flares... Picture looks odd
3. I prefer SMOKE... Lots of it... In Black / Red / Grey

Yeoman
03-26-2012, 06:39 PM
i personally would gladly accept never being able to use flares at BMO, if it meant i can bring in my own smoke.

London
03-26-2012, 06:47 PM
1. It's better than having nada
2. Wasnt there because i had to work... But it looks like a cake of Flares... Picture looks odd
3. I prefer SMOKE... Lots of it... In Black / Red / Grey


colours are illegal in canada, you likely wont find colours available in ontario

Yeoman
03-26-2012, 06:58 PM
really?
i've proven that wrong once :D
heh

uncle p
03-26-2012, 07:04 PM
The flares are way better than the confetti cannon IMO.....The confetti cannon made it look like we were having a grade school pizza party back there.....plastic or not this is movement in the right direction. Step 1) Introduce flares via FO displays. Step 2) Get our own rep's with flare privileges. Step 3) Burn down the south stand and rebuild with a roof!!!

J .
03-26-2012, 07:22 PM
Definitely think it would be better to have smoke if there were no flares allowed.

At least its was something.

Red4ever
03-26-2012, 08:09 PM
They are trying, they are listening and I won't fault them for that at all. People are too quick to judge the FO, as obviously they aren't lending a deaf ear when it comes to flares. I give them a huge thumbs up. Successful or not.

Personally I think flares are retarded. I never understood them and never will and if it bothers people paying to see the game and they complain, scrap em.

Yeoman
03-26-2012, 08:10 PM
The flares are way better than the confetti cannon IMO.....The confetti cannon made it look like we were having a grade school pizza party back there.....plastic or not this is movement in the right direction. Step 1) Introduce flares via FO displays. Step 2) Get our own rep's with flare privileges. Step 3) Burn down the south stand and rebuild with a roof!!!

stop giving away my four step plan
the fourth step was profit by the way

Relja
03-26-2012, 08:12 PM
I liked the idea of flares, but it couldve been executed better. But i really enjoyed the fly over by the CF130, it was probably the best birthday present I had :). TFC's performance sure wasnt :(.

jazzy
03-26-2012, 08:42 PM
i'm never sure what people mean by saying plastic, it is a job of fo's marketing department to sell "the experience". i prefer to say amateur and cheap, because that is how our front office is going about things. from quality of videos they produce to events they put together.

here is an example of what Seattle's FO is doing, few people refereed to them as plastic, maybe they are, i'm not the one to say. but at-least they make it look professional.

video=youtube;dqylgmYMZ2Q]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqylgmYMZ2Q[/video]

the importance of this video is that it is produced in such a way that it gives the supporters a feeling that they are an integral part of the soccer experience. Professional or not THEY are a part of what everyone will be part of if you come to the game........which we seem to be always fighting for.........which we once had, established by ourselves ....through great individual effort,......and yes other teams /supporters (it seems), are progressing in a positive way while here in Toronto confusion abounds.,..not sure of the answer,....or even how the teams performance affects all of this ......and maybe our attitude towards any efforts to stimulate a questionable gameday experience by fans or FO.

SCF1908
03-26-2012, 08:55 PM
Lame.

It comes across as so contrived.

AL-MO
03-26-2012, 09:05 PM
This is by far the lamest thing I've seen from the FO in a long time. I shook my head when I saw it on Saturday. There's so much wrong with what they are trying to do I'm not sure where I should start.

AL-MO
03-26-2012, 09:06 PM
Lame.

It comes across as so contrived.

Yep.

AL-MO
03-26-2012, 09:25 PM
So I'm gonna go ahead and predict no matter what FO does there will complaints that they could do better or/and do nothing at all.

I'd rather they just follow through on what they say they are going to do. Stay out of our way, and provide support/assistance when we request it. Remember the Dichio banner? They realized that we were going to upstage anything they had planned so they just scrapped it and showcased our hardwork. They also assisted us by allowing the group to store the banner at the stadium in between sessions and allowed us access to prep everything prior to the match. (we weren't purposely trying to upstage them...we had no idea what they were planning)

I have no interest in them lighting their own flares/smoke off before games or getting involved in organizing tifo. This is not their roll and they need to realize that. Pretty much every 'display' they have tried has failed miserably anyway.


They are trying, they are listening and I won't fault them for that at all. People are too quick to judge the FO, as obviously they aren't lending a deaf ear when it comes to flares. I give them a huge thumbs up. Successful or not.

Personally I think flares are retarded. I never understood them and never will and if it bothers people paying to see the game and they complain, scrap em.

This is the same FO that has criticized the use of pyro at every opportunity, but will use it in their ads and promo material when its convenient for them as it looks "cool". (they won't tell you that though)

They don't really 'listen' and if 'trying' is them attempting to fabricate support well then I'd rather they just not try then.

__wowza
03-27-2012, 08:07 AM
1. It's better than having nada
2. Wasnt there because i had to work... But it looks like a cake of Flares... Picture looks odd
3. I prefer SMOKE... Lots of it... In Black / Red / Grey

FLARESALTOFF!

http://www.kosherseek.com/menorah.jpg



again, i maintain that we cant win either way. i dont have a preference to flares or confetti, but i honestly thought somewhere out there, this was the brainchild of someone at MLSE who thought we'd appreciate it and that itd add to the atmosphere.

Chris Wren
03-27-2012, 08:22 AM
What is it that people like about flares or smoke bombs? I've never really understood the facination. There is something primal or tribal about fire, I can see that. At the same time that attitude seems like it comes from an era when the crowds weren't filled with middle class folks. In all sincerity, what are the feelings people have when they see the Chicago supporters lighting flares? Excitement? Dread? Chaos? Unity? Power? I'm not judging negatively because I'm really just curious as to why others have strong feelings for them.

Don Julio
03-27-2012, 08:36 AM
It's lame and it stinks. Maybe at night would be a bit more impressive.

__wowza
03-27-2012, 08:41 AM
What is it that people like about flares or smoke bombs?

i just think they look cool. that's it, that's all.
like anything else, they have the potential to be overdone, but for the most part if they're used well, they have the potential to look absolutely awesome.

Fort York Redcoat
03-27-2012, 08:54 AM
This is the same FO that has criticized the use of pyro at every opportunity, but will use it in their ads and promo material when its convenient for them as it looks "cool". (they won't tell you that though)

They don't really 'listen' and if 'trying' is them attempting to fabricate support well then I'd rather they just not try then.

The use of pyro AT BMO ,BY you.


They heard that AL-MO's like flares so they put up some flares. You'd rather no flares at games unless it's in your hands? If that's your message I'm sure they'll listen to that.

T-boy
03-27-2012, 10:25 AM
I got the impression that the flare setup was specifically for the Hercules fly-past, and it was just really badly co-ordinated?

Or are the flares meant to be a permanent set up for the whole season?

SCF1908
03-27-2012, 11:06 AM
The use of pyro AT BMO ,BY you.


They heard that AL-MO's like flares so they put up some flares. You'd rather no flares at games unless it's in your hands? If that's your message I'm sure they'll listen to that.


Flares are no different than banners or flags etc, they should be done by the fans for the fans, it is contrived and pathetic when it is done by the club. That said there are clubs that work very well with supporters groups to make it work, TFC is not one of them however, in my opinion.

Fort York Redcoat
03-27-2012, 11:22 AM
I got the impression that the flare setup was specifically for the Hercules fly-past, and it was just really badly co-ordinated?

Or are the flares meant to be a permanent set up for the whole season?

Like most things it will probably depend on feedback and reaction to it (feedback = not exclusively from our message board).


Flares are no different than banners or flags etc, they should be done by the fans for the fans, it is contrived and pathetic when it is done by the club. That said there are clubs that work very well with supporters groups to make it work, TFC is not one of them however, in my opinion.

The league sees a difference. I see a difference. I see a difference between a flag and a banner as well.;)

Technorgasm
03-27-2012, 11:51 AM
they were awesome.
more please.

if you didnt think they were completely aesome in every way . .
then you are not OULTRA, and will never ascend mount OULTRA. . the heaven for OULTRA's/ / never ver.

the message I got was./
"it is now OK to do Pyro at BMO"

and until I get a personalized mwessage, in my inbox, dierect from the FO telling me so.
that is what I am going to think

Technorgasm
03-27-2012, 11:53 AM
they.
were.
awesome.

and this "contrived" and "If its done by teh FO, its no good crap"

If you want to see big tits, slapping in your face.
and some company decided to buy you a lap dance.
would you complain? really?

Carts
03-27-2012, 11:57 AM
and this "contrived" and "if its done by teh fo, its no good crap"

if you want to see big tits, slapping in your face.
And some company decided to buy you a lap dance.
Would you complain? Really?

BEST... ANALOGY... EVER...!!!

In other words... YEAH BUDDY...

Fort York Redcoat
03-27-2012, 11:59 AM
they.
were.
awesome.

and this "contrived" and "If its done by teh FO, its no good crap"

If you want to see big tits, slapping in your face.
and some company decided to buy you a lap dance.
would you complain? really?

Some people would just rather hold them or not see them at all...g:D

nancymiranda
03-27-2012, 12:01 PM
If FO puts the display on, people call it plastic or fake. If they don't do stuff like this then people say they are not trying hard enough.

I agree with Phil.

These guys are trying. They know we like flares, so they do it in a controlled environment... thats cool. Beats doing it in the stands where someone can get hurt.
The plane was a nice touch.. they're trying! Better than no doing anything at all. Baby steps folks. Next step, maybe they'll start talking to the supports groups and implementing some of our ideas.

Eastend
03-27-2012, 12:08 PM
Sitting in the 1st row behind them was a little harsh. Yes they looked great and I like the idea...BUT, it was not only the smoke, there were some sort of particles flying into our eyes......

I guess I'm getting old (no, I am) but whatever....it's not going to kill me so either way.

__wowza
03-27-2012, 01:32 PM
If you want to see big tits, slapping in your face.
and some company decided to buy you a lap dance.
would you complain? really?

i dont think the analogy had the right effect on me, for some reason it just really makes me excited to be going to my girlfriends house after work today.

SCF1908
03-27-2012, 01:51 PM
It is totally contrived and for those of us who have enjoyed the real thing overseas, it verges on becoming totally comedic. There is a huge difference between what they did on Saturday and what you will find in countries all over the world, whether it Italy, Serbia, Poland, Brazil or whatever, anyone who thinks there is any relation between the farce on Saturday and where it is done by the fans has never personally witnessed or been involved with real pyro.

And for the record the tits analogy is bollocks, why the fuck do I want some company to pay for big tits in my face when I can just go and fuck the girl attached to a pair of tits?

Get real.

As long as we are having flyovers why not have cheerleaders and blast Ozzy's Crazy Train and pretend we are at an NFL game?

Anyway, the discussion is fine, the FO will do what the FO wants to do with the fans irrelevant to the decision anyway. That's the way this team rolls. Our discussion and the various view points really doesn't hold much consideration with them.

adamdz
03-27-2012, 02:00 PM
they were awesome.
more please.

if you didnt think they were completely aesome in every way . .
then you are not OULTRA, and will never ascend mount OULTRA. . the heaven for OULTRA's/ / never ver.

the message I got was./
"it is now OK to do Pyro at BMO"

and until I get a personalized mwessage, in my inbox, dierect from the FO telling me so.
that is what I am going to think

If the FO wants to buy me a lap dance, thats cool, the pyro was pretty lame :). I hope that kind of display does not become the norm at BMO.

Red4ever
03-27-2012, 02:09 PM
I hope I never get desensitized to watching games at BMO that I need Pyro to have a good time.

You want proof that they are listening to us? We bitch and moan about flares, so they put up flares themselves. It's akin to when Bart wanted Bonestorm, but Marge bought him Lee Carvello's putting challenge instead, but don't tell me they are not listening and trying. It's a weak argument.

I think flares make us look like soccer nerds, rather than cool, but to each their own.

Fort York Redcoat
03-27-2012, 02:42 PM
Anyway, the discussion is fine, the FO will do what the FO wants to do with the fans irrelevant to the decision anyway. That's the way this team rolls. Our discussion and the various view points really doesn't hold much consideration with them.

If it was irrelevant it would've been status quo on the weekend. It was different.

AL-MO
03-27-2012, 05:05 PM
The use of pyro AT BMO ,BY you.


They heard that AL-MO's like flares so they put up some flares. You'd rather no flares at games unless it's in your hands? If that's your message I'm sure they'll listen to that.

I am in favour of the atmosphere at the stadium to be 100% driven by Supporters. And that's all I will say in regards to this.

J .
03-27-2012, 05:11 PM
I am in favour of the atmosphere at the stadium to be 100% driven by Supporters. And that's all I will say in regards to this.


Agreed

AL-MO
03-27-2012, 05:13 PM
What is it that people like about flares or smoke bombs? I've never really understood the facination. There is something primal or tribal about fire, I can see that. At the same time that attitude seems like it comes from an era when the crowds weren't filled with middle class folks. In all sincerity, what are the feelings people have when they see the Chicago supporters lighting flares? Excitement? Dread? Chaos? Unity? Power? I'm not judging negatively because I'm really just curious as to why others have strong feelings for them.

There are alot of reasons why people like pyro.

On a very basic support level though, it seems to make the Support in the stands WAY more intense. People get louder, they start jumping around and participating in what's going on in the section more and they seem to just let go of any reservations they may have had before. (I'm not sure why in particular, it just happens)

All you have to look at is the game last year where TFC where losing 3-0 to DC. Smoke went off in 112, and people just went absolute bonkers. Probably the loudest "Just can't get enough" ever. (youtube it if you want to see) Now it didn't really matter as the team still lost, but the point is still valid. Imagine if TFC were winning 3-0 and that happened....how loud would it have got? A former RPB president even told me after the game "That was the best thing to ever happen to 112".

Torontotonto
03-27-2012, 05:48 PM
There are alot of reasons why people like pyro.

On a very basic support level though, it seems to make the Support in the stands WAY more intense. People get louder, they start jumping around and participating in what's going on in the section more and they seem to just let go of any reservations they may have had before. (I'm not sure why in particular, it just happens)

All you have to look at is the game last year where TFC where losing 3-0 to DC. Smoke went off in 112, and people just went absolute bonkers. Probably the loudest "Just can't get enough" ever. (youtube it if you want to see) Now it didn't really matter as the team still lost, but the point is still valid. Imagine if TFC were winning 3-0 and that happened....how loud would it have got? A former RPB president even told me after the game "That was the best thing to ever happen to 112".

True True
Although they might not be allowed BMO, I remember that did ratch things up in a loosing effort.
Best JCGE ever.

I was suprised to see the display, however I voted it didn't matter one way or another.
This is another poll/thread that will go on without ever having an agreement on way or the other.
Just my 2 cents.
All For One...

Yeoman
03-27-2012, 05:54 PM
hey maybe the FO is reading. we know they lurk on here

Torontotonto
03-27-2012, 06:05 PM
I understand TFC FO made an effort to appease the fans, and I applaude the FO for trying, however to me a staged display is not the same as a spontaneous act of passion, flares or otherwise.
Having said that, we have to live with it. I don't think the day will come when flares will be officially allowed.

james
03-27-2012, 07:39 PM
To me it looks like FO is doing everything they can to bring life back to the games, supporters and not doing it so they have to double their efforts

i don't think FO is doing everything they can, because they also have made things harder for supporters such as only letting flags and banners in through gate what 5 or something? also unless you are in the stadium with your flag half an hour before game it is not aloud in. I noticed that made some people not bring flags anymore. Increase ticket prices sure did not help the atmosphere and Also FO could do things such as change the south end to a general admission, would help us as supporters get better organised, i don't see TFC jumping at that idea tho.

james
03-27-2012, 07:44 PM
the pyro was ok, would look much better if we had lots of flags and big Tifo banner right behind the fire and smoke, but to bad our supporter groups are more off to the side of the stand 113,112,111.

james
03-27-2012, 07:52 PM
Flares are no different than banners or flags etc, they should be done by the fans for the fans, it is contrived and pathetic when it is done by the club. That said there are clubs that work very well with supporters groups to make it work, TFC is not one of them however, in my opinion.

i agree, they didn't talk to the supporters about this. They did not try to work with us to make it look alot cooler. Maybe we could of organised a cool TIFO with the supporters and the fire and smoke with the FO. But just like usual they don't seem to ever want to get to close with the supporters, just add things in that they think might please us. But i really don't think they actually want to get that involved with the supporters. For some reason i think they want to keep there distance. And by doing that makes it feel plastic!

denime
03-27-2012, 08:49 PM
There are alot of reasons why people like pyro.

On a very basic support level though, it seems to make the Support in the stands WAY more intense. People get louder, they start jumping around and participating in what's going on in the section more and they seem to just let go of any reservations they may have had before. (I'm not sure why in particular, it just happens)

All you have to look at is the game last year where TFC where losing 3-0 to DC. Smoke went off in 112, and people just went absolute bonkers. Probably the loudest "Just can't get enough" ever. (youtube it if you want to see) Now it didn't really matter as the team still lost, but the point is still valid. Imagine if TFC were winning 3-0 and that happened....how loud would it have got? A former RPB president even told me after the game "That was the best thing to ever happen to 112".

And consequence "for best thing that ever happened in 112" was worth the security measures that were implemented and made life very difficult for all supporters for several months.

That "best thing that ever happened in 112" fucked up the support for the rest of the year,it was almost impossible for people responsible for banners,flags,drum to show up 3 fucking hours prior to the game to get checked and searched.

The bullshit that all 3 SGs have to deal with for the rest of the year was worth the one flare that made few people to feel like "real" Ultras,I don't think so,but who am I to tell people how to behave for the SG best interests.

denime
03-27-2012, 08:50 PM
hey maybe the FO is reading. we know they lurk on here


Not just FO,but members of other SGs too.

Yeoman
03-27-2012, 08:53 PM
Not just FO,but members of other SGs too.

not sure what that has to do with anything *shrug*
and if you're going to counter point something, at least make sure the reason why anything happend, is right. smoke isn't a flare.

DavydMT
03-27-2012, 09:13 PM
...

That "best thing that ever happened in 112" fucked up the support for the rest of the year,it was almost impossible for people responsible for banners,flags,drum to show up 3 fucking hours prior to the game to get checked and searched.

The bullshit that all 3 SGs have to deal with for the rest of the year was worth the one flare that made few people to feel like "real" Ultras,I don't think so,but who am I to tell people how to behave for the SG best interests.

April 16, 2011: Pyro at BMO
July 27, 2011: All 3SGs working together and looking very good.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRAQwdPNUc0

World didn't end on April 16th

Blowing Bubbles
03-27-2012, 09:15 PM
Their heart is in the right place but it was a piss poor display imo. It's like going to Hot Topic to buy clothes and thinking you're now a punk. Also the display it was self was very PG ..... they should obv make the display much bigger and at least get it to PG-13 level.

Was half expecting a mascot to start firing hot dogs out of a cannon after it.

Whoop
03-27-2012, 10:43 PM
April 16, 2011: Pyro at BMO
July 27, 2011: All 3SGs working together and looking very good.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRAQwdPNUc0

World didn't end on April 16th

That clip makes me said. If that's the best of last season, for example, I don't know how we can say the support is good when other groups/teams do a way better job.

From a strictly SG perspective. (Don't want to get into a buying tickets, attendance debate.)

Cashcleaner
03-27-2012, 11:22 PM
http://i.imgur.com/T4GJo.jpg

Having a whole series of flares lined up in bunches will cause far more complaints than the same number spread individually all over the south end.

Look, here's the thing. Some people have asthma or other breathing difficulties. I know I've suffered more than my fair share of coughing fits thanks to pyro, but when it's the case of one or two guys popping a pair of flares off in my section, people can move away until things clear up - not a big deal really. But when you've got an entire section blanketed in in smoke and fumes, I guarantee we're gonna have a lot of complaints over it because it's impractical to expect a dozen or so people to find and move to an exit, head into the back of the stadium to some fresh air, and move back to their seats when it's all done.

Putting flares in the hands of a few trusted individuals and spacing them out seems like the best option.

Alonso
03-27-2012, 11:44 PM
I think FO's intentions are in the right place; finding us alternate and safe means to do something; however I fully understand the comment that it is done without heart or feeling just for the sake of a "show".

There really are two approaches now we just say ya no thanks or we work with them to find something that satisfies everyone

This is why I voted yes.

It's a good starting point but tacky and manufactured/forced/cheesy the way it was done.

Hopefully it can evolve into something that everyone could be happy with.

RedRum
03-28-2012, 04:50 AM
The use of pyro AT BMO ,BY you.


They heard that AL-MO's like flares so they put up some flares. You'd rather no flares at games unless it's in your hands? If that's your message I'm sure they'll listen to that.

What Al-Mo stated is a verifiable fact. FO has tried to dismiss this as only being done by TV networks and other media as a way of their own promotion for their own benefit but this is falsehood. Pyro in DC appearing on the TFC website, check. TFC TV commercials paid for by the club in year 1 and 2 showing smoke rising from a pseudo RPB section complete with pseudo Jack and Naturgirl among others, check. To reply to a well thought out post - never mind factual - in such a sarcastic way from a mod no less - does little to bolster your argument.


Flares are no different than banners or flags etc, they should be done by the fans for the fans, it is contrived and pathetic when it is done by the club. That said there are clubs that work very well with supporters groups to make it work, TFC is not one of them however, in my opinion.

I dunno about that. I figure if they have a few spare cupholders left over from the north end expansion they could rig a figure 8 repeating mechanized device to them, pop a couple flags in there and it would look pretty sick /my own (admittedly weak) attempt at sarcasm.


Some people would just rather hold them or not see them at all...g:D

Holding them is dangerous. A few buckets of sand would ensure safety.


And consequence "for best thing that ever happened in 112" was worth the security measures that were implemented and made life very difficult for all supporters for several months.

That "best thing that ever happened in 112" fucked up the support for the rest of the year,it was almost impossible for people responsible for banners,flags,drum to show up 3 fucking hours prior to the game to get checked and searched.

The bullshit that all 3 SGs have to deal with for the rest of the year was worth the one flare that made few people to feel like "real" Ultras,I don't think so,but who am I to tell people how to behave for the SG best interests.

This was an over reaction by the FO. 2 people in a stadium of 18,000 did something at 1 game. A game that made me proud as a supporter... down 3-0 and the support was phenomanol. That is what we need to be. That is what would make BMO a fortress. Funny, but I dont recall these measures when the 2 morons lit flares and threw them, hitting a woman a few years ago.


http://i.imgur.com/T4GJo.jpg

Having a whole series of flares lined up in bunches will cause far more complaints than the same number spread individually all over the south end.

Look, here's the thing. Some people have asthma or other breathing difficulties. I know I've suffered more than my fair share of coughing fits thanks to pyro, but when it's the case of one or two guys popping a pair of flares off in my section, people can move away until things clear up - not a big deal really. But when you've got an entire section blanketed in in smoke and fumes, I guarantee we're gonna have a lot of complaints over it because it's impractical to expect a dozen or so people to find and move to an exit, head into the back of the stadium to some fresh air, and move back to their seats when it's all done.

Putting flares in the hands of a few trusted individuals and spacing them out seems like the best option.

Well said.

james
03-28-2012, 08:10 AM
That clip makes me said. If that's the best of last season, for example, I don't know how we can say the support is good when other groups/teams do a way better job.

From a strictly SG perspective. (Don't want to get into a buying tickets, attendance debate.)

Ya we can put on a good Tifo display now and then, (sky dome was a great example, well done by our supporters. But we need to come up with some more Tifos like that this year) we can sell tickets, but we have always had problems singing together. There is a few teams/supporter groups in MLS not just Portland and Seattle that can sing a lot louder then we do at games.

adamdz
03-28-2012, 08:25 AM
Ya we can put on a good Tifo display now and then, (sky dome was a great example, well done by our supporters. But we need to come up with some more Tifos like that this year) we can sell tickets, but we have always had problems singing together. There is a few teams/supporter groups in MLS not just Portland and Seattle that can sing a lot louder then we do at games.

Don't expect it to get any better without a major revamp of the south end (or possibly a new section). In my opinion our support has been relatively stagnant since season 3. From an organizational standpoint, we have very little to work with, from the FO, to the seating arrangements, to the lack of cohesion between all fans. It is what it is, and just seems to be getting weaker as more people become indifferent. Something drastic needs to happen to rejuvenate us, what that is I do not know.

jabbronies
03-28-2012, 08:35 AM
A winning team would be a start.

At the end of the day people are here to watch footy. and the shit we are seeing is exactly that..shit.

Technorgasm
03-28-2012, 08:48 AM
If the FO wants to buy me a lap dance, thats cool, the pyro was pretty lame :). I hope that kind of display does not become the norm at BMO.

I hope it does.
YAY! I am expressing a difference of opinion.

Its like Ganja.pot, grass, mary-jane, Bhudha, Endo, It coudl be a gateway to an entuire UNIVERSE of groovy experiences.

Fort York Redcoat
03-28-2012, 09:25 AM
What Al-Mo stated is a verifiable fact. FO has tried to dismiss this as only being done by TV networks and other media as a way of their own promotion for their own benefit but this is falsehood. Pyro in DC appearing on the TFC website, check. TFC TV commercials paid for by the club in year 1 and 2 showing smoke rising from a pseudo RPB section complete with pseudo Jack and Naturgirl among others, check. To reply to a well thought out post - never mind factual - in such a sarcastic way from a mod no less - does little to bolster your argument

What's to argue? I'm discussing why FO had flares on the weekend and some people are saying that unless flares are in supporters hands they don't want to see them in the stadium. Now FO can stop their flare display and you'll be happier. It seems like it's easier to ask FO to stop including images of materials they ban from their stadium in their ads then trying to work with them to get a plastic version of what some like overseas.


This was an over reaction by the FO. 2 people in a stadium of 18,000 did something at 1 game. A game that made me proud as a supporter... down 3-0 and the support was phenomanol. That is what we need to be. That is what would make BMO a fortress. Funny, but I dont recall these measures when the 2 morons lit flares and threw them, hitting a woman a few years ago.



Those morons were clearly not part of our group and were banned from the stadium.

__wowza
03-28-2012, 11:24 AM
A winning team would be a start.

At the end of the day people are here to watch footy. and the shit we are seeing is exactly that..shit.

winning would certainly make things a lot more pleasant on the boards, it always has.


Ya we can put on a good Tifo display now and then, (sky dome was a great example, well done by our supporters. But we need to come up with some more Tifos like that this year) we can sell tickets, but we have always had problems singing together. There is a few teams/supporter groups in MLS not just Portland and Seattle that can sing a lot louder then we do at games.

we have a banner team for that exact reason! we're always looking for help in any aspect, designing, painting, conceptualizing, etc. if you've got any ideas or wanna help shoot fortyorkredcoat a PM. singing together is a different story, there's a major disconnect from what happened with the seasons seats. they weren't expecting to sell as much and had to expand the supporters section several times to accommodate everyone. from there, the aesthetic breakdown happens, the sections are far apart, it's hard to co-ordinate, etc. in places like seattle and portland, stacking the supporters vertically as opposed to horizontally helps. your watching what the guy in front of you is doing and they're watching what the capo in front of them is doing, here you're looking across and watching the guy beside you.

no one wants to be apart of a chant that is falling out of timing, etc, so sometimes chants stop early or don't reach fever pitch. if the weathers right it helps, if it's windy or raining it can be really, really hard to hear.

flatpicker
03-28-2012, 12:00 PM
http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k139/brushstroke-man/ALMOflares.jpg

Commie Red
03-28-2012, 12:29 PM
Although I thought it came off a bit "plasticey" -- I voted yes. I like smoke and fire at the games (particularly night games) but I also don't want to get burned by some drunken idiot. So it seems it is either this type of managed system or nothing. I think if the FO worked closer with SGs around the timing of the pyro we could have something more organic, integrated and fun happening.

__wowza
03-28-2012, 01:29 PM
^ should be interesting to see how it looks or if theyre going to do it tonight.

Pinkie
03-28-2012, 01:38 PM
i agree, they didn't talk to the supporters about this. They did not try to work with us to make it look alot cooler. Maybe we could of organised a cool TIFO with the supporters and the fire and smoke with the FO. But just like usual they don't seem to ever want to get to close with the supporters, just add things in that they think might please us. But i really don't think they actually want to get that involved with the supporters. For some reason i think they want to keep there distance. And by doing that makes it feel plastic!

i wanted to come and post that. if there had been some communication with the sg about what they had planned maybe it wouldn't have looked as lame as it did? maybe if they had moved to the supporters section instead of the side of the net like that?

Captain Croatia
03-28-2012, 02:57 PM
Its better than nothing, and like others said it is a step in the right direction.

They should just let the supporters section handle flares and/or smoke bombs, let the security do some work and dispose of them.

Cashcleaner
03-28-2012, 11:27 PM
Its better than nothing, and like others said it is a step in the right direction.

They should just let the supporters section handle flares and/or smoke bombs, let the security do some work and dispose of them.

That sounds entirely reasonable to me. Give the security staff some buckets of sand and just make sure nothing is thrown. I think that's the big problem here. People have thrown these things and they've caused some damage, even injury, and that's probably the main reason why the FO are so apprehensive about these things. They don't want a lawsuit or have to pay to replace any expensive equipment and I really can't say I blame them. I think you've got the right idea, though. It sounds like a pretty good compromise.

FluSH
03-29-2012, 08:23 PM
Smoke bombs... FTW.

zeelaw
03-30-2012, 09:01 AM
Some real Disney stuff.

james
03-31-2012, 10:14 AM
winning would certainly make things a lot more pleasant on the boards, it always has.



we have a banner team for that exact reason! we're always looking for help in any aspect, designing, painting, conceptualizing, etc. if you've got any ideas or wanna help shoot fortyorkredcoat a PM. singing together is a different story, there's a major disconnect from what happened with the seasons seats. they weren't expecting to sell as much and had to expand the supporters section several times to accommodate everyone. from there, the aesthetic breakdown happens, the sections are far apart, it's hard to co-ordinate, etc. in places like seattle and portland, stacking the supporters vertically as opposed to horizontally helps. your watching what the guy in front of you is doing and they're watching what the capo in front of them is doing, here you're looking across and watching the guy beside you.

no one wants to be apart of a chant that is falling out of timing, etc, so sometimes chants stop early or don't reach fever pitch. if the weathers right it helps, if it's windy or raining it can be really, really hard to hear.

cheers for that. I've been in england for passed 2 seasons so have not been able to come out and help. I should be back in Toronto in the summer time tho, I have always wanted to make banners and that so i would like to help out hopefully!

cmonyoureds
03-31-2012, 04:25 PM
Thought they were small and insignificant, much like the brains working in the F/O.
Although it really goes to show, when it comes to creating atmosphere, the F/O isn't even in the same league as supporter groups.
They better go back to marketing the fans. At least the ones that still care/show up.

Cashcleaner
03-31-2012, 11:42 PM
So did they do anymore pyro for the match today? Didn't see any on TV, but the bar switched over to the game with about five minutes until kickoff.

Fort York Redcoat
04-01-2012, 09:07 AM
Nope CASH, there was the smoke and the confetti canon.

I'm still waiting till I can bring a confetti canon into the stands. I would make that look hardcore.

Yeoman
04-01-2012, 09:53 AM
instead of potatoes, cut up fabric, stuff in
exact same principle
so there can't be saying you don't know how to make a confetti cannon

London
04-01-2012, 11:51 AM
^^^ i like this idea for sure, make the old style where you filled them with hairspray and ignite, then you would have a flaming confetti cannon.

how could anyone have an issue with that??

RC8
04-01-2012, 03:36 PM
Supporter groups must be unified in the South Stand and given a lot more leeway.

The capo on Saturday didn't do a good job in my opinion. He totally lost the crowd as he wanted to keep them singing mindlessly throughout. When the atmosphere is so tense due to what's happening on the pitch people need to be given more space and then drawn in with our more complex chants, as opposed to our simplest ones. There was too much repetition and too little substance at a time when everyone was uncomfortable.

I still followed what he was doing, and think others should have too, but I was disappointed with the lack of leadership from the supporter groups. Unifying the supporters in South and as was mentioned above increasing the verticality of it all would go a long way.

Code Red
04-01-2012, 07:03 PM
Supporter groups must be unified in the South Stand and given a lot more leeway.

The capo on Saturday didn't do a good job in my opinion. He totally lost the crowd as he wanted to keep them singing mindlessly throughout. When the atmosphere is so tense due to what's happening on the pitch people need to be given more space and then drawn in with our more complex chants, as opposed to our simplest ones. There was too much repetition and too little substance at a time when everyone was uncomfortable.

I still followed what he was doing, and think others should have too, but I was disappointed with the lack of leadership from the supporter groups. Unifying the supporters in South and as was mentioned above increasing the verticality of it all would go a long way.

While I admire your vision, to me, uniting the south stand looks to be a pipe dream. At present time, 112 and 113 are barely on the same page nevermind the rest of the sections. Until there are multiple capos, at least 3-4 spread out throughout the south stand, unification will never work. Too much distance to be covered for one or two guys. If the south stand wasn't so wide across or had more vertical seating, one capo may be enough but certainly not at its present state.

To me, capo Dave is doing a great job. That some supporters choose not to sing/support is no fault of his. He puts in a solid effort but in the end, it's up to each and every supporter to make their contribution. So far this season, with the exception of the CCL game, the contribution has been somewhat luckluster.

Let's use the last game as an example. Dave asks supporter section to sit down in order to try out something new. 90% of supporters follow through with his requests while another 10% (mainly drunks) refuse to sit and actually start heckling the supporters who are following through on Dave's request. A few bad apples, yes, but these bad apples are not helping to create a good atmosphere nor are they helping to unite the SGs.

Also, it seems FO has removed the "artificial" flares. In place of the flares, we saw STH or MLSE employees holding TFC flags on the east and west sides of the stadium after which they were all swiftly collected prior to kickoff. Never seen anything more plastic than that. As plastic as the "artificial flares" were, they were ten fold better than having people hold flags for the opening ceremony. When will MLSE learn? :facepalm:

RC8
04-01-2012, 11:52 PM
My girlfriend and I sat down as requested but the people around us weren't having it. Maybe if I'd been 3 rows in front my impression would be very different, but I was 4 rows from the back and the last 6 rows were just too anxious about what was going on in the field.

When the 'Where you go we follow' and 'We want you to know' chants happened people around me, the same ones who wouldn't sit, actually joined in. But they weren't up for a 7th repetition of 'allez le rouge'.

All we need is one capo and for the RBP to be located in 114. Then the chants would spill to the left and right much more successfully. 111 needs to become 113 and 110 needs to become 112.

South American supporter groups don't need capos at all, but locating their drummer and most hardcore bunch in the middle of the supporters' section is of utmost importance. As things stand at BMO field the area where you can hear 112 loudest is composed of empty space. Locating RPB in 114 would also allow for much better acoustics for our chants.

All this is intended as constructive criticism, of course, Dave improved support considerably through his efforts on many occasions too.

Joe Kool
04-02-2012, 10:46 AM
^^ I am at the top of 114 and the acoustics are just screwed up to really get into the chants. Some of us try to follow at times when things start going in 112/113 but it starts sounding like "row row row your boat" with multiple groups singing different parts at different times and that is when everyone stops and it gets quiet in the section. The national anthem it is very obvious how bad it can get. People are off by at least one line by the end of the song which is alot. Also, even though 114 tries to follow 112/113 it seems that 115 always have their own party going on with their own chants and ignore 112/113 capos completely. Excellent enthusiasm the 115 group has which is great but leaves everyone quiet in 114 I think mostly because there are two different chants happening at the same time on both sides of you. It's just too bad everyone doesn't follow the capos because you can hear what the chants they are starting. Just my observations anyway.

AL-MO
04-02-2012, 09:43 PM
^^ I am at the top of 114 and the acoustics are just screwed up to really get into the chants. Some of us try to follow at times when things start going in 112/113 but it starts sounding like "row row row your boat" with multiple groups singing different parts at different times and that is when everyone stops and it gets quiet in the section. The national anthem it is very obvious how bad it can get. People are off by at least one line by the end of the song which is alot. Also, even though 114 tries to follow 112/113 it seems that 115 always have their own party going on with their own chants and ignore 112/113 capos completely. Excellent enthusiasm the 115 group has which is great but leaves everyone quiet in 114 I think mostly because there are two different chants happening at the same time on both sides of you. It's just too bad everyone doesn't follow the capos because you can hear what the chants they are starting. Just my observations anyway.

You're right....115 is more concerned with singing about beans...and how they are coming out of a can than occasionally following along with everyone else to their right.

Code Red
04-03-2012, 01:33 PM
My girlfriend and I sat down as requested but the people around us weren't having it. Maybe if I'd been 3 rows in front my impression would be very different, but I was 4 rows from the back and the last 6 rows were just too anxious about what was going on in the field.

When the 'Where you go we follow' and 'We want you to know' chants happened people around me, the same ones who wouldn't sit, actually joined in. But they weren't up for a 7th repetition of 'allez le rouge'.

All we need is one capo and for the RBP to be located in 114. Then the chants would spill to the left and right much more successfully. 111 needs to become 113 and 110 needs to become 112.

South American supporter groups don't need capos at all, but locating their drummer and most hardcore bunch in the middle of the supporters' section is of utmost importance. As things stand at BMO field the area where you can hear 112 loudest is composed of empty space. Locating RPB in 114 would also allow for much better acoustics for our chants.

All this is intended as constructive criticism, of course, Dave improved support considerably through his efforts on many occasions too.

This is 100% true and it makes perfect sense. Unfortunately, I don't see how RPB/U-Sector can position themselves further along to the west considering they've been in the southeast corner since Day 1. BMO Field is just a shitty stadium that was built on an experimental basis. Nobody had any idea whether soccer would flourish in this city again and when it did, eyes were opened and we were left with a sub-standard stadium. Mind you, in 2007, it could be considered a state-of-the-art stadium since there were very few SSS in the league. As it's been discussed for ages on here, a roof and a second-tier over the south stand would enhance the atmosphere but until that happens, it's going to be what it is. Maybe one day all that will change.

jabbronies
04-03-2012, 01:54 PM
Supporter groups must be unified in the South Stand and given a lot more leeway.

The capo on Saturday didn't do a good job in my opinion. He totally lost the crowd as he wanted to keep them singing mindlessly throughout. When the atmosphere is so tense due to what's happening on the pitch people need to be given more space and then drawn in with our more complex chants, as opposed to our simplest ones. There was too much repetition and too little substance at a time when everyone was uncomfortable.

I still followed what he was doing, and think others should have too, but I was disappointed with the lack of leadership from the supporter groups. Unifying the supporters in South and as was mentioned above increasing the verticality of it all would go a long way.

I thought the Capo on Saturday had great energy and has the potential to be a solid leader on the stand.

However, I do agree with the above bolded part.

Sitting in 110 for the past 5 seasons I've had a birds eye view of what 112-113 has been up to, however, being in the trenches tells a whole different story. being in the trenches felt like I was at a choir practice. It was song after song after song with no reason for singing it. During most of the teams first half chances on goal went mainly unnoticed to people 3 rows in front of me and 3 rows behind. No reacation from anyone regarding the play. When out player was on the pitch injured, everyone was singing and chanting about loving TO while the rest of the stadium was clapping the player up off the floor.

Love the energy the supporters section brings, however I'm now convinced that the reason the chants do not spread across to 111 - 110 (and possibly the other way as well) is due to the fact that there is a strong disconnect between what the supporters section (112-113) is engaging in and what the rest of the stadium is engaged in. Until that bridge is gapped you won't be seeing any chants moving across the stadium except maybe a TFC clap clap clap.

Also of note - Capo telling 111 they need to wake up and start chanting actually had the opposite effect of getting people engaged and involved... That may work for 10 or 11 people, but not going to go over if you are trying to coral hundreds or thousands.

The bigger picture is defiantly being lost.

SCF1908
04-08-2012, 07:08 PM
You're right....115 is more concerned with singing about beans...and how they are coming out of a can than occasionally following along with everyone else to their right.


Bang on.

I know one of them and they are very enthusiastic but totally bung up the ability for the south stand to get behind the team with one voice. They also have some awful yankee doodle song they do as well, and songs about pies. I am not English and don't care for a replication of the English culture personally as they want to do.

yellowfellow
04-13-2012, 11:21 AM
Also, it seems FO has removed the "artificial" flares. In place of the flares, we saw STH or MLSE employees holding TFC flags on the east and west sides of the stadium after which they were all swiftly collected prior to kickoff. Never seen anything more plastic than that. As plastic as the "artificial flares" were, they were ten fold better than having people hold flags for the opening ceremony. When will MLSE learn? :facepalm:

I think Chelsea does the same thing...

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5086/5305153034_777946b012.jpg

Code Red
04-13-2012, 01:17 PM
I think Chelsea does the same thing...

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5086/5305153034_777946b012.jpg

It's a stupid idea, regardless. I couldn't tell whether it was employees of the club or actual STHs who were asked to hold the flags but either way, flags belong in the hands of the supporters, not temporary flag-bearers. I have a feeling MLSE are so desperate to create a vibe in the stadium that they are looking at footage from around the world and trying to implement anything that they can get away with. Flares/smoke bombs are prohibited in MLS so MLSE decided to try out artificial ones. When that failed, they decided to use the pre-game flags, possibly after looking at footage of Chelsea games or some other European club(s). It seems like they are trying hard to duplicate other leagues but the answer doesn't lie in artificial flares or temp flag-bearers, it lies in the form of an improved stadium. Enclosed roof and/or second tier over the south stand is a start. Unfortunately, without a winning team on the pitch and increasingly more empty seats, stadium upgrades aren't likely to happen anytime soon.

Joe Kool
04-13-2012, 01:44 PM
Funny thing is they are trying these tactics but at the same time they are still trying to implement stupid rules to stop actual supporters from doing stuff. Example...a fellow RPB who has a seat beside me in the top level over 114 (accessible area) brought his flag as he has done in the past on several occasions last year. Also, we had some of the RPB ones from last year up there for a number of games too. Anyhow, he brought his flag and it was sitting there while he was out getting a beer or something but I noticed the security guy standing over it. I didn't pay much attention to that since there is always security up there. We all assembled as the national anthems were about to begin and we went to raise the flag and the security guy...who I am sure was just itching to do it...came right over and said we are not allowed to have flags there. We said bullshit since we had it whenever we wanted the year before but he said it is a new rule. We are in the supporter section and we are not allowed to have a flag on a basically empty top deck with nobody behind us. We asked to talk to his supervisor and he came over later and told us the same. What a load of crap. He said there are too many people walking by. There are actually hardly anybody except security walking by most of the time. We were actually very conscious of that last year and were respectful of anyone in the area. Then after we finished arguing I look down to see all these flags in non-supporter sections and a number of them in someone's face. I was going to invest in another flag this year for up there but I guess now there is no point. I am done with the ever-changing rules.

Code Red
04-13-2012, 02:13 PM
Funny thing is they are trying these tactics but at the same time they are still trying to implement stupid rules to stop actual supporters from doing stuff. Example...a fellow RPB who has a seat beside me in the top level over 114 (accessible area) brought his flag as he has done in the past on several occasions last year. Also, we had some of the RPB ones from last year up there for a number of games too. Anyhow, he brought his flag and it was sitting there while he was out getting a beer or something but I noticed the security guy standing over it. I didn't pay much attention to that since there is always security up there. We all assembled as the national anthems were about to begin and we went to raise the flag and the security guy...who I am sure was just itching to do it...came right over and said we are not allowed to have flags there. We said bullshit since we had it whenever we wanted the year before but he said it is a new rule. We are in the supporter section and we are not allowed to have a flag on a basically empty top deck with nobody behind us. We asked to talk to his supervisor and he came over later and told us the same. What a load of crap. He said there are too many people walking by. There are actually hardly anybody except security walking by most of the time. We were actually very conscious of that last year and were respectful of anyone in the area. Then after we finished arguing I look down to see all these flags in non-supporter sections and a number of them in someone's face. I was going to invest in another flag this year for up there but I guess now there is no point. I am done with the ever-changing rules.

So let me guess this straight, you have seats in the 'Supporters Section', yet you are NOT allowed to wave a flag in that section. There is something seriously wrong with this picture. It's ridiculous rules like this that are going to kill the remaining support in the south stand. Constraining support to one little corner of the stadium is not going to build supporters culture in this city, nor will it help get more people involved in the visual/vocal scope of support. There will come a time when people will just say 'screw it, it's not worth the hassle' and we will be left with nothing but a standing section.

Sorry to hear about your experience. I think it would be worth bringing this up at the next Town Hall.

Joe Kool
04-13-2012, 02:26 PM
So let me guess this straight, you have seats in the 'Supporters Section', yet you are NOT allowed to wave a flag in that section. There is something seriously wrong with this picture. It's ridiculous rules like this that are going to kill the remaining support in the south stand. Constraining support to one little corner of the stadium is not going to build supporters culture in this city, nor will it help get more people involved in the visual/vocal scope of support. There will come a time when people will just say 'screw it, it's not worth the hassle' and we will be left with nothing but a standing section.

Sorry to hear about your experience. I think it would be worth bringing this up at the next Town Hall.

Yeah it is bullshit. Actually the RPB guy who owns the flag was going to talk to Phil to get some help with that rule. We would just be an average joe to the TFC FO but Phil won't be. If not, yeah definitely a topic for any open forum with the TFC FO.

yellowfellow
04-13-2012, 04:20 PM
It's a stupid idea, regardless. I couldn't tell whether it was employees of the club or actual STHs who were asked to hold the flags but either way, flags belong in the hands of the supporters, not temporary flag-bearers. I have a feeling MLSE are so desperate to create a vibe in the stadium that they are looking at footage from around the world and trying to implement anything that they can get away with. Flares/smoke bombs are prohibited in MLS so MLSE decided to try out artificial ones. When that failed, they decided to use the pre-game flags, possibly after looking at footage of Chelsea games or some other European club(s). It seems like they are trying hard to duplicate other leagues but the answer doesn't lie in artificial flares or temp flag-bearers, it lies in the form of an improved stadium. Enclosed roof and/or second tier over the south stand is a start. Unfortunately, without a winning team on the pitch and increasingly more empty seats, stadium upgrades aren't likely to happen anytime soon.

I am just glad they are not trying to put up those wacky waving inflatable tube men that Barca has...

Code Red
04-13-2012, 04:29 PM
I am just glad they are not trying to put up those wacky waving inflatable tube men that Barca has...

Don't give them any ideas. g:D

Abou Sky
04-13-2012, 04:54 PM
I am just glad they are not trying to put up those wacky waving inflatable tube men that Barca has...

Wacky wavy fun guy!

I want one for my front lawn sooooo badly!

james
04-14-2012, 10:33 AM
Funny thing is they are trying these tactics but at the same time they are still trying to implement stupid rules to stop actual supporters from doing stuff. Example...a fellow RPB who has a seat beside me in the top level over 114 (accessible area) brought his flag as he has done in the past on several occasions last year. Also, we had some of the RPB ones from last year up there for a number of games too. Anyhow, he brought his flag and it was sitting there while he was out getting a beer or something but I noticed the security guy standing over it. I didn't pay much attention to that since there is always security up there. We all assembled as the national anthems were about to begin and we went to raise the flag and the security guy...who I am sure was just itching to do it...came right over and said we are not allowed to have flags there. We said bullshit since we had it whenever we wanted the year before but he said it is a new rule. We are in the supporter section and we are not allowed to have a flag on a basically empty top deck with nobody behind us. We asked to talk to his supervisor and he came over later and told us the same. What a load of crap. He said there are too many people walking by. There are actually hardly anybody except security walking by most of the time. We were actually very conscious of that last year and were respectful of anyone in the area. Then after we finished arguing I look down to see all these flags in non-supporter sections and a number of them in someone's face. I was going to invest in another flag this year for up there but I guess now there is no point. I am done with the ever-changing rules.

yup i have herd them always coming up with new rules about flags. The first 2 years was fine then they started comming up with new rules every week. I always brought my flag but certain games i had security stop me, even tho i have seats in 112. Lets see 1 time they said you can't bring flags in for friendly games, so i had to take it off the poll. Another time they said your poll is to long to bring it in (even tho there was others with longer polls in the stand already). Lets see what else...oh yeah then the sorry you have to be in the stadium 60 mins before kickoff if you want to bring it in the stadium. Then that became half an hour...1 game i showed up bit late and the security guy was nice and he let me in about 20 mins before kick off...next game i showed up at about 27mins before kickoff and they were pricks and said its passed the half hour mark now, can't bring it in....Its endless bull shit, a normal person would of gave up bringing flags by now, and i believe many have, select few still bring flags but MLSE have really been destroying the atmosphere. And it's funny because then you do see MLSE try to bring fake atmosphere into the stadium such as fake flag carriers and flares. If they took away things like the rules on flags and banners, and maybe work with supporter groups, lighten up on security, you would have a real great atmosphere, it's simple but they just don't get it. Things like renovating the south end, adding roofs, is a also a bonus to improve the atmosphere.