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View Full Version : An honest thought



J .
03-25-2012, 02:32 AM
The supporters and fans truly did not bring it on opening day.

Ive been watching more MLS over the years and other supporters groups are bringing it loud and more. In the end, we cannot control the glory or mess on the pitch, but indeed in our sections we need to expect more of ourselves, our peers and beyond.

The laurels garnished upon us from the Skydome CCL match perhaps could have cause complacency but I did not talk to a single person satisfied with the effort from ourselves. In the end I felt the effort in the stands and on the field did not match up to our previously high standard. I know we all can move forward on wednesday and on saturday and truly bring it for 90 minutes. The past five years have been tough and Ill accept a jaded approach to belief for the boys on the field but do not let that seep into singing for 90 minutes.

Walms
03-25-2012, 03:59 AM
It wasent the best of home openers*but the most disgraceful moment of the day took place in the 93rd minuet.*

As the whistle blew to end the match, BMO field erupted into boos.*This was more embarrassing to me than the 3-0 score line. Its Embarrassing to do in front of our own players, in front of visiting fans, and in front of all the MLS, who view Toronto fans as poster boys for the league
*
I love the support we have been getting this year but if your only going to cheer, sing, and be loud when the team is*winning, and boo when things don't go our way.... well thats not right in my eyes.

Just my 2 cents

Brooker
03-25-2012, 05:33 AM
It was cold, it was windy, it was dark and gloomy, it was a really early game after a friday night, the other team scored not even 10 minutes into the game......

Not too surprised... I certainly wasn't in the mood to go mental.


It wasent the best of home openers*but the most disgraceful moment of the day took place in the 93rd minuet.*

As the whistle blew to end the match, BMO field erupted into boos.*This was more embarrassing to me than the 3-0 score line. Its Embarrassing to do in front of our own players, in front of visiting fans, and in front of all the MLS, who view Toronto fans as poster boys for the league


If we were the only city that reacted to getting thumped like that, it might be embarrassing.

denime
03-25-2012, 05:39 AM
It wasent the best of home openers*but the most disgraceful moment of the day took place in the 93rd minuet.*

As the whistle blew to end the match, BMO field erupted into boos.*This was more embarrassing to me than the 3-0 score line. Its Embarrassing to do in front of our own players, in front of visiting fans, and in front of all the MLS, who view Toronto fans as poster boys for the league
*
I love the support we have been getting this year but if your only going to cheer, sing, and be loud when the team is*winning, and boo when things don't go our way.... well thats not right in my eyes.

Just my 2 cents

I have to disagree with your statement.

We were there for them 93 minutes long,was our support loud and good as we can be?NO,but so was the performance of our team on the field.

TFC fans are not Maple Leaf fans ,puppets with big bank accounts that will go to game after game and do fuckall to display their displeasure with their team performance.

This is what makes TFC fans to be a poster boys of MLS,when your team sucks you let them know that,nothing wrong with that.

I just hope they got the message and they will play much better Wednesday night.

ensco
03-25-2012, 06:54 AM
Had trouble even identifying the chants on the west side. Wind played havoc with the way the sound carried.

Detroit_TFC
03-25-2012, 09:21 AM
Without a doubt the worst opener we've had to date. Unreal combination of factors - bad weather sucked the life out of the crowd, roster disorder due to injuries, early visitor goal, anti-climatic "2nd opener" after the big game at R.C, poor match management by Winter, etc.

whyalwaysme11
03-25-2012, 09:26 AM
Without a doubt the worst opener we've had to date. Unreal combination of factors - bad weather sucked the life out of the crowd, roster disorder due to injuries, early visitor goal, anti-climatic "2nd opener" after the big game at R.C, poor match management by Winter, etc.


the people behind me did not even know who plata was.

ecospice
03-25-2012, 09:30 AM
I don't know that is fair to judge the support given the wind. I sit up in 224 on the west side, and most of the chanting was drown out by the wind and the stands making a vibrating sound caused by the wind. From what I could see, the supporters groups in the bunker were pretty steady for most of the game with chants, etc. With such a poor opening 10-12 minutes from the home team it is hard to be motivated too.

T-boy
03-25-2012, 10:15 AM
It wasent the best of home openers*but the most disgraceful moment of the day took place in the 93rd minuet.*

As the whistle blew to end the match, BMO field erupted into boos.*This was more embarrassing to me than the 3-0 score line. Its Embarrassing to do in front of our own players, in front of visiting fans, and in front of all the MLS, who view Toronto fans as poster boys for the league
*
I love the support we have been getting this year but if your only going to cheer, sing, and be loud when the team is*winning, and boo when things don't go our way.... well thats not right in my eyes.

Just my 2 cents

I don't agree at all. If we are very diassappointed with what we see - if we get beaten easily at home, we need to be vocal about our opinion. We cheer when we are happy, equally we should boo if we are upset. Toronto people are clearly too polite when it comes to vocalising their discontent! I don't see anything embarrassing about showing that we are upset. I'm more embarrassed when the players come over after we lose heavily, and we politely clap like we don't care that we just sucked!

The TFC players and management need to know when we are unhappy, being mute after the game isn't going to help them improve anymore, they are just going to think that we don't care!

Roogsy
03-25-2012, 10:49 AM
The booing at the end of the game highlighted to me the increasingly different positions most fans have vs the supporters groups. It seems the fans are not as forgiving.

DavydMT
03-25-2012, 10:57 AM
The supporters and fans truly did not bring it on opening day.

Ive been watching more MLS over the years and other supporters groups are bringing it loud and more. In the end, we cannot control the glory or mess on the pitch, but indeed in our sections we need to expect more of ourselves, our peers and beyond.

The laurels garnished upon us from the Skydome CCL match perhaps could have cause complacency but I did not talk to a single person satisfied with the effort from ourselves. In the end I felt the effort in the stands and on the field did not match up to our previously high standard. I know we all can move forward on wednesday and on saturday and truly bring it for 90 minutes. The past five years have been tough and Ill accept a jaded approach to belief for the boys on the field but do not let that seep into singing for 90 minutes.

Agree.

We (club, team, supporters) have been mediocre for a long time now. And mismanagement in the front office, dressing room and stands are the reason for our new standard.

Occasionally on the days when the weather is good, kick off time is good, GO schedule works, there is no issues with highways or parking and the teams plays well and scores few goals everything improves. But most of the time, it is what it is.

Walms
03-25-2012, 11:05 AM
I have to disagree with your statement.

We were there for them 93 minutes long,was our support loud and good as we can be?NO,but so was the performance of our team on the field.

TFC fans are not Maple Leaf fans ,puppets with big bank accounts that will go to game after game and do fuckall to display their displeasure with their team performance.

This is what makes TFC fans to be a poster boys of MLS,when your team sucks you let them know that,nothing wrong with that.

I just hope they got the message and they will play much better Wednesday night.

I'm more referring to the "fan" that sits in the non supported section and spend the entire game talking about how "Toronto is total shit."

It was getting vary annoying in the 200 section and yes the booing at the end, coming from "fad fans" got under my skin

leafsman
03-25-2012, 11:10 AM
why is booing a terrible performance wrong? So fans are just supposed to accept a poor performance then

ensco
03-25-2012, 11:14 AM
To be honest, I'm never sure what to think when someone prefaces a thought with the observation that this one is "honest". What does that mean about everything else you say?

g:D

Roogsy
03-25-2012, 11:17 AM
To be honest, I'm never sure what to think when someone prefaces a thought with the observation that this one is "honest". What does that mean about everything else you say?

g:D

:smilielol5:

jabbronies
03-25-2012, 11:22 AM
The booing at the end of the game highlighted to me the increasingly different positions most fans have vs the supporters groups. It seems the fans are not as forgiving.

I Booed them. They fucking deserved it. 3-0 lose at home on opening day? disgraceful IMO. Anyone who disagrees I'd like to hear why you think 3-0 lose in professional sports warrants anything different.

When they win, even tie in certain situations, I'll praise them and give them the credit they deserve. Even a lose in some circumstances deserves a bit of praise, but for the most part...loosing does not deserve positive reinforcment.

dupont
03-25-2012, 11:23 AM
I never boo the team but I find it hard to judge others for doing it in this case. We got destroyed 3-0 in our home opener. The team barely ever showed the drive that I think the fans deserve to see.

T-boy
03-25-2012, 11:32 AM
The booing at the end of the game highlighted to me the increasingly different positions most fans have vs the supporters groups. It seems the fans are not as forgiving.

I find this really difficult. It's like the supporters groups will just condone any type of TFC display, even if they completely suck! Where is the passion, Red Patch Boys? Do you even CARE if TFC play well or not? It kinda seems like some of you really don't mind at all if TFC lose or win! Where is your passion? I hate to sound like Delia Smith, but come on RPB, lets get passionate about your team, and vocalise when you are unhappy.

I was serioulsy embarrassed a couple of times last season when the team totally sucked and were played off the field, yet 112 and 113 clapped the players like they really appreciated "their effort". I'm sorry, but effort is all good, but if we (TFC fans AND supporters groups) want a decent on field product, we need to ALL let the club know when we are seriously disappoined with a performance.

I wouldn't go out for a nice dinner and compliment the chef if he burnt all the food and it tasted terrible, and yet "he tried hard". I wouldn't give a good tip to a waiter if he poured wine all over my head or licked a knife clean. Equally, we shouldn't just sit around clapping politely if the team we want to succeed are playing terrible.

Until WE start showing passion, why should this team improve? They don't have any incentive to get any better if we "politely stay quiet" or cheer when they are awful! If TFC are terrible, we need to BOOH and let them know we are NOT happy. Politeness isn't going to achieve anything.

T-boy AKA Delia!

SoccMan
03-25-2012, 11:59 AM
You don't like the bloody booing well what do you bloody expect. We lost at home 3-0 in a league where teams hardly suffer defeats at home, and we have had more than our share of games like this at home since this team started in 2007. What do you expect we are the only expansion team that have not made the playoffs after so many years in the league and after so much promise after the champions league run we come up with two stinkers in our first two games, people are fed up with this garbage and you can see it with the mountains of empty seats yesterday. The Columbus Crew home opener yesterday had more or about the same amount of people at their home opener. TFC is not the leafs and if this crap continues BMO will be a very empty stadium very soon, how long do we have to wait before we see a playoff bound team!

jabbronies
03-25-2012, 12:07 PM
I find this really difficult. It's like the supporters groups will just condone any type of TFC display, even if they completely suck! Where is the passion, Red Patch Boys? Do you even CARE if TFC play well or not? It kinda seems like some of you really don't mind at all if TFC lose or win! Where is your passion? I hate to sound like Delia Smith, but come on RPB, lets get passionate about your team, and vocalise when you are unhappy.

T-boy AKA Delia!

I don't think you should generalize the group with this statement.
The majority of the group is on the same page as you. As you can see, there isn't an overwhelming flow of responses from RPB members against what you are saying.
Just because one poster assumes something, doesn't mean you should follow.

burlington Red
03-25-2012, 12:14 PM
I have to disagree with your statement.

We were there for them 93 minutes long,was our support loud and good as we can be?NO,but so was the performance of our team on the field.

TFC fans are not Maple Leaf fans ,puppets with big bank accounts that will go to game after game and do fuckall to display their displeasure with their team performance.

This is what makes TFC fans to be a poster boys of MLS,when your team sucks you let them know that,nothing wrong with that.

I just hope they got the message and they will play much better Wednesday night.

seriously, what game were you at

TorontoGooner
03-25-2012, 12:14 PM
I agree with the booing, actually. The problem with every Toronto sports team is their complacency, and the fact that as a city we let them get away with it. If a professional football player doesn't perform and gets booed, good.

It's painful to watch a half empty stadium at the best of times, and I don't think the weather comes into it if you're a real football fan. I actually strongly dislike BMO Field. It looks tacky, it doesn't posses any charm and its only the supporters groups that create any kind of an atmosphere. The noise just blows away on to Lake Ontario. I'd be more than happy to move more games to the Rogers Centre, or finish BMO Field off so it doesn't look like a High School stadium.

Love isn't actually blind. So when as a whole we claim we're passionate, we shouldn't get that mixed up with being taken for a ride. In that respect, I agree with T-Boy. You can claim you're real 'fans', but actually, just singing for 90 minutes without facing the pitch doesn't make you that. Watching the game and reacting to it emotionally makes you a fan. So yeah, if you've paid a lot of money and get pissed on (figuratively and literally) I'd say you're perfectly entitled to boo.

PS This whole Supporter Groups vs Fad fans shit is exactly the sort of thing that will drive people away from TFC games.

Red Rat
03-25-2012, 12:35 PM
This was just another day in the park for many (fans) and supporters alike. I found it that was the poorest home opener in our short history.
Supporters don't deserve the recognition, the players don't deserve any neither. AFter such a great display at the skydone we fell flat on our asses for the most important game of all.

jazzy
03-25-2012, 01:13 PM
You don't like the bloody booing well what do you bloody expect. We lost at home 3-0 in a league where teams hardly suffer defeats at home, and we have had more than our share of games like this at home since this team started in 2007. What do you expect we are the only expansion team that have not made the playoffs after so many years in the league and after so much promise after the champions league run we come up with two stinkers in our first two games, people are fed up with this garbage and you can see it with the mountains of empty seats yesterday. The Columbus Crew home opener yesterday had more or about the same amount of people at their home opener. TFC is not the leafs and if this crap continues BMO will be a very empty stadium very soon, how long do we have to wait before we see a playoff bound team!

true^;.. along with the complete refusal of the city to realise the transportation needs of it`s $$ citizens I.E. GO,..TTC,...and parking of course, .why wouldn`t people be on edge,..shit I had people driving by me trying to give away tickets for free . realizing it just wasn`t worth their effort (and families),..to freeze and try to get into the game......Sooo,..for whatever the reason,....many negatives are now overriding the few, few positives.....AND if this goes down......it won`t be back,.....so, again...I feel like singing???? ,... not always esp, as Rome burns...BUT I do contribute a lot, invisibly at banner sessions as do a FEW.....it`s another way of contributing to something you love but still are saddened and confused with the product on the field....ALL support doesn`t necessarily come from singing!!!...I`m angry and thats my business..however I never boo........quiet is enough for me and more effective........BUT definitely understand peoples frustration and reason for booing...and it has it's purpose! ...I mean our children`s children will still be waiting for a MLSE team to win ANYTHING!.........I hope anyone critiquing on field support ,are at least involving themselves in OTHER means of supporting soccer/our team/the game experience/BANNERS

Chris Wren
03-25-2012, 01:30 PM
They deserved to be booed. That was a disgrace. I have no clue as to why anyone would bring up the Leafs or their fans, what do they have to do with anything? I thought it was ridiculous that people were still singing and the drummer kept droning on until the end of the game. TFC deserved to hear stone cold silence. I swear to god people are playing dress up down at BMO. Anyone who cares about this team should have had their blood boiling yesterday. Singing? Are you kidding?

denime
03-25-2012, 01:37 PM
seriously, what game were you at

Can you elaborate your post little bit more?

phonzo
03-25-2012, 01:58 PM
The fans did not bring it? Fine so be it but honestly whenever this message starts coming out I have to ask what did you do and what do you expect to be done? I'm not trying to knock constructive criticism one bit but it needs to have a suggestion to go with it.

No one in a supporters section can make anyone support; we can't force you to chant, to wave a flag to put down your french fries and sing along. The hope is to encourage others to want to contribute but beyond that it is up to each supporter to support.

Code Red
03-25-2012, 02:24 PM
This has everything to do with the product on the field. Supporters/fans are getting fed up and noone can blame them. Some of us/most of us have been following the team since its inception into the league in 2007, while others well before that (Lynx, Blizzard). We live and breath football and want to see our team win, or at least be competitive. With the high of beating LA in the quarterfinals of the CCL, a lot of us thought this team would be off to a strong start in league play, or at least have a point or two from its first two matches. Yet we got soundly beaten by Seattle AND San Jose (conceding 6 goals and having 1 goal for). Something has to give and fans have every right to be upset. I was in 112 and it was lively up until the 2nd goal. The 2nd goal clearly took the energy out of the supporters and the 3rd goal was the nail in the coffin. Still, as someone else mentioned, there were a lot of factors leading up to the atmosphere we saw. Let's bring the noise on Wednesday and hopefully get a better performance out of the players.

SCF1908
03-25-2012, 03:26 PM
The first half they played relatively well I thought, I though they would come back for sure. I was sure wrong. They deserved getting booed off the pitch with the second half performance. People have to temper their expectations though, a good run in a cup competition doesn't mean that those results will translate in a league.

Torontotonto
03-25-2012, 03:56 PM
I think were all in a bit of CCL hangover.
After such an Epic night at Skydome, then the win in LA, we were all excited for the season to start.
Then we loose Frings, and first game 3-0 to Seattle, then we loose Frei.
But yesterday's effort did not do much to raise our hope's in advancing to the CCL finals and MLS playoffs.
There's nothing wrong with showing displeasure at the product on the field in my opinion.
Better days ahead...

Let's bring it on Wednesday night.

Torontotonto
03-25-2012, 04:05 PM
The fans did not bring it? Fine so be it but honestly whenever this message starts coming out I have to ask what did you do and what do you expect to be done? I'm not trying to knock constructive criticism one bit but it needs to have a suggestion to go with it.

No one in a supporters section can make anyone support; we can't force you to chant, to wave a flag to put down your french fries and sing along. The hope is to encourage others to want to contribute but beyond that it is up to each supporter to support.



^ This

jaxul
03-25-2012, 04:40 PM
I started booing at 3-0 when 8 out of 10 players were not running back on the play while I had lost my voice watching a team who could not deliver a decent ball in the box. I then continued booing when our 900k jewel made an "I don't give a f*** pass" in the 93rd minute of play, which summed up the entire match! I pay money, I sing, I encourage, I'm back ON TIME for the second half and I do not leave until well after the final whistle. I believe that entitles me to boo after a 0-3 effort-lacking home opener against San Josey.

ArmenJBX
03-25-2012, 04:59 PM
I've always felt this topic was akin to walking on very thin ice. Anything that is said can backfire immediately, and in the past, the cries of "you're not a supporter if..." have resonated.

However, here's my personal opinion on the matter.

When the team is playing poorly, or not stepping up, and the players themselves look up at the stands and see ~1000-2500 supporters still chanting, singing, clapping, smiling, etc etc, it immediately appeases any negative feelings they have.

I cringe when I look at the highlights or watch a game at home, and see Toronto FC give away an easy goal, and the camera then pans over to the supporters groups who are still jumping, laughing.

There is a difference between supporting and cheerleading, just like the difference between spoiling a child and tough love. If the players get constant, positive feedback, they are spoiled for it, and in turn, there's no incentive to try to "make it up" to the fans - they know that no matter what happens, that drum will still be beating, that the core will still be partying in the stands.

However, with some tough love (booing, for example) the supporters can send a message to the team that sometimes what they do is not good enough, sometimes the lack of effort or simple mistakes are not forgivable. JDG commented on how easy the culture is here - there is simply no pressure to perform outside of winning a contract.

TorontoGooner
03-25-2012, 05:36 PM
I've always felt this topic was akin to walking on very thin ice. Anything that is said can backfire immediately, and in the past, the cries of "you're not a supporter if..." have resonated.

However, here's my personal opinion on the matter.

When the team is playing poorly, or not stepping up, and the players themselves look up at the stands and see ~1000-2500 supporters still chanting, singing, clapping, smiling, etc etc, it immediately appeases any negative feelings they have.

I cringe when I look at the highlights or watch a game at home, and see Toronto FC give away an easy goal, and the camera then pans over to the supporters groups who are still jumping, laughing.

There is a difference between supporting and cheerleading, just like the difference between spoiling a child and tough love. If the players get constant, positive feedback, they are spoiled for it, and in turn, there's no incentive to try to "make it up" to the fans - they know that no matter what happens, that drum will still be beating, that the core will still be partying in the stands.

However, with some tough love (booing, for example) the supporters can send a message to the team that sometimes what they do is not good enough, sometimes the lack of effort or simple mistakes are not forgivable. JDG commented on how easy the culture is here - there is simply no pressure to perform outside of winning a contract.

Yes, yes and yes. Especially the cheer leading bit.

adamdz
03-25-2012, 06:51 PM
Personally I don't think shitting on players during the game is a good idea. Ou wanna do it, go for it, I won't stop you. You shouldn't be shitting on your fellow supporter if he choose to keep giving it their all though. If seeing people jumping and chanting makes their guilt go away during the game, I think we have done our job. Don't worry they will feel like shit after the game if they have any love for this team and its fans.

AL-MO
03-25-2012, 07:21 PM
The supporters and fans truly did not bring it on opening day.

Ive been watching more MLS over the years and other supporters groups are bringing it loud and more. In the end, we cannot control the glory or mess on the pitch, but indeed in our sections we need to expect more of ourselves, our peers and beyond.

The laurels garnished upon us from the Skydome CCL match perhaps could have cause complacency but I did not talk to a single person satisfied with the effort from ourselves. In the end I felt the effort in the stands and on the field did not match up to our previously high standard. I know we all can move forward on wednesday and on saturday and truly bring it for 90 minutes. The past five years have been tough and Ill accept a jaded approach to belief for the boys on the field but do not let that seep into singing for 90 minutes.

Agreed. It was an awful game all around.


I don't know that is fair to judge the support given the wind. I sit up in 224 on the west side, and most of the chanting was drown out by the wind and the stands making a vibrating sound caused by the wind. From what I could see, the supporters groups in the bunker were pretty steady for most of the game with chants, etc. With such a poor opening 10-12 minutes from the home team it is hard to be motivated too.

I do. I was in the middle of 112 and it was complete crap.


Agree.

We (club, team, supporters) have been mediocre for a long time now. And mismanagement in the front office, dressing room and stands are the reason for our new standard.

Occasionally on the days when the weather is good, kick off time is good, GO schedule works, there is no issues with highways or parking and the teams plays well and scores few goals everything improves. But most of the time, it is what it is.

You're right. People have been resting on their laurels for years. The whole "we're the best supporters in the league" got to people's heads at some point.


I agree with the booing, actually. The problem with every Toronto sports team is their complacency, and the fact that as a city we let them get away with it. If a professional football player doesn't perform and gets booed, good.

It's painful to watch a half empty stadium at the best of times, and I don't think the weather comes into it if you're a real football fan. I actually strongly dislike BMO Field. It looks tacky, it doesn't posses any charm and its only the supporters groups that create any kind of an atmosphere. The noise just blows away on to Lake Ontario. I'd be more than happy to move more games to the Rogers Centre, or finish BMO Field off so it doesn't look like a High School stadium.

Love isn't actually blind. So when as a whole we claim we're passionate, we shouldn't get that mixed up with being taken for a ride. In that respect, I agree with T-Boy. You can claim you're real 'fans', but actually, just singing for 90 minutes without facing the pitch doesn't make you that. Watching the game and reacting to it emotionally makes you a fan. So yeah, if you've paid a lot of money and get pissed on (figuratively and literally) I'd say you're perfectly entitled to boo.

PS This whole Supporter Groups vs Fad fans shit is exactly the sort of thing that will drive people away from TFC games.

No it won't. The shit play on the pitch will. There has always been a divide between the casual fan and the SG's. (in every club the world over)


The fans did not bring it? Fine so be it but honestly whenever this message starts coming out I have to ask what did you do and what do you expect to be done? I'm not trying to knock constructive criticism one bit but it needs to have a suggestion to go with it.

No one in a supporters section can make anyone support; we can't force you to chant, to wave a flag to put down your french fries and sing along. The hope is to encourage others to want to contribute but beyond that it is up to each supporter to support.

You should have looked a few rows above you in 112. He was singing his heart out all game long.

Chris Wren
03-25-2012, 07:23 PM
It's time we stop thinking that we have a role to play other than being there. Anyone who was there and paying attention was being treated to a horror show. We need to have some effort shown to us to justify the singing and the chanting. This is not meant to offend, but I found it got embarrassing by the end. I was wishing the drumming and any attempts at singing would stop. I couldn't fathom what would make anyone want to join in. Most people around me were in a state of shock, or were It's time for TFC to deliver. We can't go on being expected to sing while watching garbage performances,

adamdz
03-25-2012, 07:26 PM
If I was to base my support solely on performance and results, I would have put a bullet in my head a couple seasons ago.

Chris Wren
03-25-2012, 07:36 PM
I mean it's just weird at a certain point. I'm there encouraging the team, but I think in year 6 it's time that results actually start to have an impact on people. I was in no singing mood on Saturday, and for people to expect it seems odd.

ensco
03-25-2012, 07:53 PM
We have a big role to play right here. If you read the Paul James book, it's interesting. The Voyageurs boards had a huge impact on the coaches and locker room.

imho the general reaction to the game yesterday is extreme, bordering on ridiculous. This was not a "horror show" in the way that least 5 different home games were horror shows last year.

james
03-25-2012, 08:11 PM
i have been noticing as well the other supporter groups across MLS have raised there game big time in the last few years and i feel we have been falling behind (the sky dome match was an exception) and we have been letting Toronto down. But then i think, we have had what 5 losing years, not even making the playoffs once....i don't think any other team in this league would ever still be getting 18k-21k fans a game, most other MLS stadiums would be empty and team would probably have to move cities after having 5 shit seasons like we have had, and having a start like that to our 6th season just makes it that much worse!

Keyman
03-25-2012, 08:17 PM
I honestly think it would be of great benefit to have an open forum on the topic of support. Not online, but in person. People need to have an open dialogue about where we've come from, where we are now, and where we plan on going. Results will obviously rejuvenate us, but results are far from inevitable. In the end, the people in the stands determine what works and what doesn't. They won't be dictated to, you can't impose anything on them. Yet we've never really had them, or better yet given them the opportunity to come forward and tell us (and by us I'm speaking from the perspective of capos/banner/chant team) what they envision moving forward. We have the potential to be the best fans in the league, and we shouldn't let that potential go to waste.

Yeoman
03-25-2012, 08:25 PM
exactly
stuff like that should be happening keyman, but sadly no one in those authority positions will do it, and any outsider organizing it, won't be taken seriously
and not just rpb talking amongst rpb, this should be all groups and people that are not associated with groups that are still supporters

AL-MO
03-25-2012, 08:44 PM
We have a big role to play right here. If you read the Paul James book, it's interesting. The Voyageurs boards had a huge impact on the coaches and locker room.

imho the general reaction to the game yesterday is extreme, bordering on ridiculous. This was not a "horror show" in the way that least 5 different home games were horror shows last year.

You're right it wasn't. I was there in New York when we could taste playoffs minutes before the game. Only to have our hopes dashed a few minutes later when the game started. THAT was a horror show. Not the match on the weekend.

AL-MO
03-25-2012, 08:46 PM
I mean it's just weird at a certain point. I'm there encouraging the team, but I think in year 6 it's time that results actually start to have an impact on people. I was in no singing mood on Saturday, and for people to expect it seems odd.

Do you only sing when we're winning?

:D

AL-MO
03-25-2012, 08:49 PM
It's time we stop thinking that we have a role to play other than being there. Anyone who was there and paying attention was being treated to a horror show. We need to have some effort shown to us to justify the singing and the chanting. This is not meant to offend, but I found it got embarrassing by the end. I was wishing the drumming and any attempts at singing would stop. I couldn't fathom what would make anyone want to join in. Most people around me were in a state of shock, or were It's time for TFC to deliver. We can't go on being expected to sing while watching garbage performances,

Sorry, but you're wrong. And as Ensco said, it wasn't a "horror show".

DoubleUp
03-25-2012, 09:40 PM
This has everything to do with the product on the field. Supporters/fans are getting fed up and noone can blame them. Some of us/most of us have been following the team since its inception into the league in 2007, while others well before that (Lynx, Blizzard). We live and breath football and want to see our team win, or at least be competitive. With the high of beating LA in the quarterfinals of the CCL, a lot of us thought this team would be off to a strong start in league play, or at least have a point or two from its first two matches. Yet we got soundly beaten by Seattle AND San Jose (conceding 6 goals and having 1 goal for). Something has to give and fans have every right to be upset. I was in 112 and it was lively up until the 2nd goal. The 2nd goal clearly took the energy out of the supporters and the 3rd goal was the nail in the coffin. Still, as someone else mentioned, there were a lot of factors leading up to the atmosphere we saw. Let's
bring the noise on Wednesday and hopefully get a better performance out of the players.


I totally Agree!

RedRum
03-25-2012, 10:08 PM
I can't help but feel this thread has gone off-topic for the vast majority of thoughts after the op's. While Phonzo's post was aimed at the wrong guy - simply put there are maybe 10 or 12 guys who give 110% vocally no matter the start time, weather, or teams performance - j. is one of those few and he is justified in starting this thread on a supporters board. That said, the crux of Phonzo's argument is 110% valid (sorry for my poor choice of words).

Each of us who calls ourselves a supporter and not a fan need to look within and think about what that means. If you have a voice next day, you have failed. We have many creative, artistic, and motivated folk around here that do an amazing job with banners and displays, and pick up the slack for the rest of us. All we need to do is show up and go crazy for 90 minutes. That's it. We can go back to our menial and unimportant jobs come Monday and slack there if need be. As someone said earlier, we have rested on our laurels for too long and we need to remedy that. Want to boo at the whistle to show your displeasure? I have no issue if you have done all you can do to prevent that for the previous 2 hours. Otherwise, fuck off.

It is what we make it. Look. Within. Yourself.

Chris Wren
03-25-2012, 10:30 PM
If you want to start spitting hairs as to how to describe the game we'll get nowhere. Not a horror show? Okay, let's go with unsettling. The point is that it's year 6. I don't only sing when we win, but I'm past the idea that I have some responsibility to sing and dance when my team is being humiliated, again. Nothing personal, I just feel it's time for the team to play their role, which is give us something to be proud to sing for.

Roogsy
03-25-2012, 11:34 PM
You're right it wasn't. I was there in New York when we could taste playoffs minutes before the game. Only to have our hopes dashed a few minutes later when the game started. THAT was a horror show. Not the match on the weekend.

Dear lord that game will forever haunt my psyche. Worst. Road. Game. Ever.

RedRum
03-26-2012, 03:31 AM
I honestly think it would be of great benefit to have an open forum on the topic of support. Not online, but in person. People need to have an open dialogue about where we've come from, where we are now, and where we plan on going. Results will obviously rejuvenate us, but results are far from inevitable. In the end, the people in the stands determine what works and what doesn't. They won't be dictated to, you can't impose anything on them. Yet we've never really had them, or better yet given them the opportunity to come forward and tell us (and by us I'm speaking from the perspective of capos/banner/chant team) what they envision moving forward. We have the potential to be the best fans in the league, and we shouldn't let that potential go to waste.

Listen to what this man is saying, it is a great idea. We can all just sit around and bitch on a message board... watch it die, or be proactive and do something about it. This needs to addressed.

Cashcleaner
03-26-2012, 04:31 AM
I've always felt this topic was akin to walking on very thin ice. Anything that is said can backfire immediately, and in the past, the cries of "you're not a supporter if..." have resonated.

I'd say this is the fairest post thus far on the matter. I think I've boo'ed TFC once at a match, and that was for the dismal performance in 2008 when we lost the Canadian Championship to...ugh....fucking Montreal at BMO Field. If I were in the crowd for the home opener on Saturday, I may have boo'ed then as well, but it's not something myself or I think many other supporters do lightly. My opinion on the whole matter is simple. I'm going to cheer and sing for this team and it's players as long as I feel they want to win and compete with dignity. But when they give up or get distracted from that goal, I don't see why I have to watch it happen and just keep my thoughts to myself.


When the team is playing poorly, or not stepping up, and the players themselves look up at the stands and see ~1000-2500 supporters still chanting, singing, clapping, smiling, etc etc, it immediately appeases any negative feelings they have.

I cringe when I look at the highlights or watch a game at home, and see Toronto FC give away an easy goal, and the camera then pans over to the supporters groups who are still jumping, laughing.

I've always agreed that our number one priority is to help motivate the team and raise morale, while also distracting the opponents during game time. Like I said, however, we I don't believe we should be expected to do that when the team is just flat-out playing terribly. As for the inappropriate cheers and displays, it's always been a problem since day 1, but luckily I think a lot more people than not know the best times to jump and cheer and sing, and when to shut up and settle down.


There is a difference between supporting and cheerleading, just like the difference between spoiling a child and tough love. If the players get constant, positive feedback, they are spoiled for it, and in turn, there's no incentive to try to "make it up" to the fans - they know that no matter what happens, that drum will still be beating, that the core will still be partying in the stands.

However, with some tough love (booing, for example) the supporters can send a message to the team that sometimes what they do is not good enough, sometimes the lack of effort or simple mistakes are not forgivable. JDG commented on how easy the culture is here - there is simply no pressure to perform outside of winning a contract.

Yep.

London
03-26-2012, 07:04 AM
holy fuck,

the team just won its biggest game ever on the road and about to play the biggest game in history on wed.

Yes a shitty performance in seattle and the home opener, but we are hardly in "booing situations" Yet

Waggy
03-26-2012, 07:07 AM
Firstly, no matter how MLSE tried to market the game, 48000 people in skydome would tell you that saturday vs San Jose was most certainly NOT TFC's home opener. League opener at home? Sure. Home opener? No. There a difference? Massively. The fact that it was the home opener was the main reason I was confident on people filling the dome. Had it not been the home opener that wouldn't have happened.

Secondly. After 5 years of shite team after shite team, to see the club play so freaking poorly to San Jose after getting dummied by Seattle? If people paid their hard earned money to go see the game, they've earned the right to boo if that's what they want to do.

Thirdly. Despite MLSE marketing, ego etc, the south end can't influence the rest of the stadium too much. Either people are excited for the match and excited to be there... or they figured they'd buy the ticket package and go to some games and check it out to see if TFC finally turned it around yet. Nothing anyone not on the pitch can do will make them engaged. If you're in the south end giving your all, who gives a flying fuck what other people do? You support your way, they support theirs. The fact that after 5 years someone still purchased a ticket says that no matter how you want to slice it, they are fans, and have earned the right to make their voices heard as much as anyone else in the stadium.

ensco
03-26-2012, 07:29 AM
If you want to start spitting hairs as to how to describe the game we'll get nowhere. Not a horror show? Okay, let's go with unsettling. The point is that it's year 6. I don't only sing when we win, but I'm past the idea that I have some responsibility to sing and dance when my team is being humiliated, again. Nothing personal, I just feel it's time for the team to play their role, which is give us something to be proud to sing for.

It was unsettling. Well put.

re "booing", I think the time for accounting is later in the season, it's just too soon. It's all about Wednesday now.

I'll be "booing" them in May if they aren't better than last year, guaranteed. (btw I barely sing at all, I "boo" or "cheer" here. I'm too into the game and/or talking about it to whoever I came with...and maybe too old for the game day stuff!)

Phil
03-26-2012, 07:53 AM
Every year we get off to a rocky start at the home opener, it never fails. I think where the deep rooted issue comes in is from the Rogers center experience going so well.

Its early season and I am confident all the support through out the stadium will pick up. Hopefully the players will start responding to MLS play as well.

mastermixer
03-26-2012, 08:17 AM
It wasent the best of home openers*but the most disgraceful moment of the day took place in the 93rd minuet.*

As the whistle blew to end the match, BMO field erupted into boos.*This was more embarrassing to me than the 3-0 score line. Its Embarrassing to do in front of our own players, in front of visiting fans, and in front of all the MLS, who view Toronto fans as poster boys for the league
*
I love the support we have been getting this year but if your only going to cheer, sing, and be loud when the team is*winning, and boo when things don't go our way.... well thats not right in my eyes.

Just my 2 cents

Boos are justifiable... This is not Europe where football is the only game in town. Outside of the supporters the fans can disappear very quickly.
We are not aren't asking to win by 5 goals every game, but at least show the fans you are there to compete. When it seems like that is not happening, then boo away.

__wowza
03-26-2012, 08:39 AM
being there (the first time ive ever been in the SS with a ticket) i can honestly say that there was a combination of factors. frings and frei being out, go train running late, 5 games being played in 14 days, the weather, etc. these arent things we've had to worry about in previous seasons. half of the time i couldnt hear the capos communicating with each other because of the wind and they were yelling at each other to start chants up.

i cant say more past what's been said, but personally i find it hard to cheer past 3 goals. the first two, ok, pick yourself up, we're still here, after the third there didn't seem to be a way back. i think some people have a mistaken sense of what should be done in the stands, and here's my opinion on it, if you're not trying, nothing should we. it's not our job to get players off their asses and back into the game after they aren't giving the effort. if i see 11 men out there giving their all for 90 minutes, then they have my support. if they aren't i'd like to casually remind them that i'm paying money to watch them play, and NOT to be their own personal motivation machine. come into the game motivated, stay in the game motivated, and if you need a reminder, look south. but don't expect us to carry you for a full 90.

i wouldnt boo, but i can see why others would.

take all of the above and multiply that by what seems to be a few people who've just picked up seasons seats, and you've got your lack of atmosphere. seriously there were two girls right in front of me who apparently were holding tickets in the supporters section and it was their first TFC game. i thought they were someones girlfriends or wives, so i held off asking too many questions.

i dont know. can we not get into questioning the group so early in the season?
call it resentment, call it what you will, but it's exactly what phonzo said. please don't criticize atmosphere you may have had absolutely no part in creating. i know a lot of people that arent even in the city that contribute anyway they possibly can, even if they dont make it out to games. hell, for most of the past 2 seasons i held viewing parties in scarborough after giving the local pub owner that i can get a turnout. if i cant make it out to a banner painting session, fine, but youd better believe im in every banner thread giving them my time suggesting and designing, and not just discussing the shortfalls of the team and fans. finally, people who spend most of their time with the RPBs singing, chanting, drumming, painting TIFOs, transporting TIFOs, organizing away trips, writing chants, planning tailgates.. these are the people who are hit the hardest by a losing effort because these are the people who've spent the most of their own time/money ensuring that the red patch standard is upheld. if i don't feel like singing, it's because i've got 10 minutes left to watch of a 3-0 game and i just missed my go train.

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/002/686/Deal_with_it_dog_gif.gif

T-boy
03-26-2012, 08:45 AM
I think there are two separate issues and things going on here:

1. The team were FLAT on Saturday. They didn't set off well out of the blocks, then just got worse as the day went on. I'm semi-agreeing that this is partly a CCL hangover - but also I worry that TFC are just starting the season badly. Ok, it was a good result IN Los Angeles - but lets not forget that we threw away a 2-0 lead in the Rogers Centre Game - then we went to Seattle and got trounced (it wasn't even close!). And now on Saturday's home opener we got beaten by a team we SHOULD be beating at home easily. There should never be an excuse not to have a good game against a team that has flown 1000 miles to play! I'm starting to worry that there is something seriously wrong in the dressing room at TFC - they've spent all winter working on the line up, and Saturday was so unpassionate, its honestly the worst home opener team I'm seen.

2. It really seems that the bubble has truly burst when it comes to fan passion and atmosphere at BMO. The crowd and atmosphere was awful on Saturday - and its been getting worse and worse every season. Now we are relegated to JUST 112/113 and the NNE singing. It USED to be that all of the south end, and all of the south east corner would sing, almost constantly. But on Saturday it was a small selection of people in 3 section of the crowd ONLY. Nobody else sang, chanted, even made much noise at all!

I remember the first two, maybe 3 season's at BMO, it was LOUD and the singing was constant. Now that is a long distant memory and its like BMO is a different place filled with VERY different people from those early season's. It's depressing to think what it USED to be like :( Saturday was truly flat on AND off the field, and I'm seriously wondering if we (the supporters) will ever get the atmosphere back to where it was 3 or 4 years ago :(

Joe Kool
03-26-2012, 08:47 AM
I wasn't surprised in the least about the boo's even though I don't really do it myself and I think the team needs to know when getting results like this is not acceptable to the fans. I had alot of shit go down in my life over the night on Friday and into Saturday that I won't even get into but getting to the game was very tough for me but I made it and was excited to see the team at BMO Field finally and be back in my season seat despite the crappy weather that accompanied it (could have been worse though). Anyhow, it was hard to watch them miss chance after chance then get killed on the counter. After all I went through to be there it seems like a let down. I think the performance in the CCL games boosted the already high hopes for this season and getting on that high makes these two league games feel like an extra low but luckily there is time left in the season even though the rest of the MLS fans are probably writing us off already for the league and CCL. We have seen teams like Columbus in recent years not win in their first 9 or 10 games and then still compete for the Shield at the end of the season. TFC needs to step it up huge for the CCL. Luckily we seem to get a very different team show up for the CCL games for some reason. Optimistic fans are the only reason Toronto teams survive. I am going to try to remain one for a bit longer.

Stouffville_RPB
03-26-2012, 08:50 AM
It wasent the best of home openers*but the most disgraceful moment of the day took place in the 93rd minuet.*

As the whistle blew to end the match, BMO field erupted into boos.*This was more embarrassing to me than the 3-0 score line. Its Embarrassing to do in front of our own players, in front of visiting fans, and in front of all the MLS, who view Toronto fans as poster boys for the league
*
I love the support we have been getting this year but if your only going to cheer, sing, and be loud when the team is*winning, and boo when things don't go our way.... well thats not right in my eyes.

Just my 2 cents

100% agree.

Though I think that most of the people booing were probably similar to the guys behind me who were saying that Dunivant should do this or do that (they were referring to Dunfield). You will always have people like this in Toronto, it is just the way the City is. The players know who the supporters have their back.

ArmenJBX
03-26-2012, 09:18 AM
I think a lot of it has to do with the timing of both support and "booing."

As a supporters group, we should be backing our players, not turning against them.
At the same time, getting scored on should not be replied with singing, dancing and cheering.

It's all relative - it looks awkward when TFC gets scored on and the stands are still singing songs of praise. It makes the environment look disconnected from the events on the field. If the players are playing poorly they should not be given that gratification - the songs should pick up again when there is some positive play on the field, not when they're getting their asses handed to them.

Think about it like this - in a fight, if you've gotten the shit kicked out of you and you're on the floor, almost passing out, do your bros keep telling you "you've got this?" or "he's nothing, you can take him?"

I don't think so.

But if you get back up and keep fighting, that's when you'll be met with support again.

phonzo
03-26-2012, 09:28 AM
just to clarify - my comment wasn't directed at you in particular J just the overall constant commentary on this very issue :)

Red Rat
03-26-2012, 09:28 AM
Support your TEAM not the players. Players come and go, Coaches come and go.
I am tired of "we should"

my rant

Fort York Redcoat
03-26-2012, 09:38 AM
I am tired of "we should"

my rant

Shortest. Rant. Ever.

Plus it's a new sentiment I've not seen posted in a long time! Well done M!:thumbsup:

T-boy
03-26-2012, 09:50 AM
Support your TEAM not the players. Players come and go, Coaches come and go.
I am tired of "we should"

my rant

I think there is a difference between supporting the team on gameday and supporting the current set of players and coaches. I think its always best to cheer and chant throughout the game - we are the Twelfth Man on gameday to our TEAM. But as soon as the final whistle blows, and if we have sucked, then I'm going to show my opinion, and if that means booing, then that's fine.

Red Rat
03-26-2012, 10:03 AM
our new anthem
Losing My Religion Lyrics Oh, life is bigger
It's bigger than you
And you are not me
The lengths that I will go to
The distance in your eyes
Oh no, I've said too much
I set it up

That's me in the corner
That's me in the spotlight
Losing my religion
Trying to keep up with you
And I don't know if I can do it
Oh no, I've said too much
I haven't said enough

I thought that I heard you laughing
I thought that I heard you sing
I think I thought I saw you try

Every whisper
Of every waking hour I'm
Choosing my confessions
Trying to keep an eye on you
Like a hurt lost and blinded fool, fool
Oh no, I've said too much
I set it up

Consider this, consider this
The hint of the century
Consider this the slip
that brought me to my knees
Failed
What if all these fantasies
Come flailing around
Now I've said too much
I thought that I heard you laughing
I thought that I heard you sing
I think I thought I saw you try

But that was just a dream
That was just a dream

That's me in the corner
That's me in the spotlight
Losing my religion
Trying to keep up with you
And I don't know if I can do it
Oh no, I've said too much
I haven't said enough
I thought that I heard you laughing
I thought that I heard you sing
I think I thought I saw you try
But that was just a dream
Try, Cry, Why, Try
That was just a dream
Just a dream, just a dream, dream......


think about it it fits us

__wowza
03-26-2012, 10:45 AM
our new anthem
Losing My Religion Lyrics
That's me in the corner
That's me in the spotlight
Losing my religion
Trying to keep up with you
And I don't know if I can do it
Oh no, I've said too much
I haven't said enough

I thought that I heard you laughing
I thought that I heard you sing
I think I thought I saw you try


woooow. little too close to home on that one.
you ever wanna see an extremely depressed supporters section start this up!

Red Rat
03-26-2012, 10:50 AM
you see that is the beauty of it, it's got nothing to do with Religion and more about how to get a message across (how to tell a person that you love them)

Red Rat
03-26-2012, 10:52 AM
I am at my wits end

__wowza
03-26-2012, 11:00 AM
I am at my wits end

i get the meaning of the song, that's why i said too close to home.
it gets trying at times supporting this team, but we're 2 games into the season and we knocked off LA when no one said we would. everything i read was us losing games 2-0, 3-0, 3-1, etc.

im not prepared to give up just yet, on the flip side, others aren't prepared to try as hard.
we each have our thresholds and i havent reached mine, don't think i will for awhile. all i can say is stay the course, if not, you may get the odd person who questions your loyalty, but i doubt after all this time anyone would blame you. the honeymoon is long over, it's crunch time now.

halfway through the season, if this trend continues many people will start up the "can we really support a losing team that has no aspirations of winning?" but until then, many of us are going to ride the ways and dont ask where they go.

Red Rat
03-26-2012, 12:37 PM
how about this
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj239/ratonrojo/WDFW.jpg

Yagbod
03-26-2012, 12:51 PM
I have no problem with booing.

In regards to signing when they suck, isn't that our job as 12th man? When they are kicking ass (it happens now and then) we love singing because we are happy. When they are sucking it out there, don't they need us more than ever? They need to know we are there and that it is important to not give up because we will not give up on them.

In my opinion, there is no more important time to sing than after we get scored on. They will naturally be deflated and they need us to pump them up again. That is the job of the 12th man.

__wowza
03-26-2012, 12:57 PM
^ that was post game when we started singing and they came over to clap at the south end.

during the game, again, i dont feel it fitting to be their personal cheerleader, they gotta give me something to cheer about and if they arent putting forth the effort, i mean if theyre really playing to class but just being outdone, ill give em all i got.

Yagbod
03-26-2012, 01:15 PM
^ that was post game when we started singing and they came over to clap at the south end.

during the game, again, i dont feel it fitting to be their personal cheerleader, they gotta give me something to cheer about and if they arent putting forth the effort, i mean if theyre really playing to class but just being outdone, ill give em all i got.

So they only need motivating, when they don't need motivating? Uhhh....

Gallade
03-26-2012, 01:20 PM
I feel like the responses in this thread don't really match the opening post. it doesn't really matter if good excuses exist (team sucked, stadium, weather, etc) when judging how good the support is - it's awesome or it's not. if you want to use MLSE or something else as an excuse for your lack of enthusiasm, great, but that still makes you unenthusiastic.

and the cure to lack of enthusiasm isn't winning or roofs, it's getting yourself excited. there's always going to be an excuse to sit down or boo. you need to decide for yourself to be loud.

jaxul
03-26-2012, 01:31 PM
So they only need motivating, when they don't need motivating? Uhhh....

A professional athlete should not need :scarf: and :drum: in order to give 100% effort on the field. They should give all they have to give regardless if there are 2 people in the stands or 20k since that is their job. When I do not give enough effort and as a result make a mistake at work I do not get any cheers or positive reinforcement...especially if I have been at the same job for over five years. If we isolate Saturdays match, I feel the players simply did not give as much effort as they could and should have. There must be a difference between a 3-0 loss in which an honest effort was evident as opposed to one in which simple passes were made every which way and players gave up on every other defensive play.

Phil
03-26-2012, 01:37 PM
I feel like the responses in this thread don't really match the opening post. it doesn't really matter if good excuses exist (team sucked, stadium, weather, etc) when judging how good the support is - it's awesome or it's not. if you want to use MLSE or something else as an excuse for your lack of enthusiasm, great, but that still makes you unenthusiastic.

and the cure to lack of enthusiasm isn't winning or roofs, it's getting yourself excited. there's always going to be an excuse to sit down or boo. you need to decide for yourself to be loud.

The funny thing is this exact thread happens every year (except year 1). We have such a high expectation on game 1 at home then always walk away and finger point, ask questions and generally re-motivate ourselves to get better. I was talking about this very issue post match at Shoeless on Saturday that the inevitable thread would be posted (not saying it shouldn't - but warning that it will).

So lets take the time to learn and exchange but lets be ready for Wednesday nights game as we will have to bring it, no excuses. Lets hope the team does too.

Chris Wren
03-26-2012, 01:38 PM
Doesn' it become hollow eventually? I don't feel like people are giving excuses, I feel like people are saying they've had enough with a team that has consistently let them down in MLS league play for the past 5 years. Support shouldn't be taken for granted. Some tough love might be a good thing for a change.

Fort York Redcoat
03-26-2012, 01:50 PM
Doesn' it become hollow eventually? I don't feel like people are giving excuses, I feel like people are saying they've had enough with a team that has consistently let them down in MLS league play for the past 5 years. Support shouldn't be taken for granted. Some tough love might be a good thing for a change.

I won't comment on my feelings on this "action through lack of action" but I will say that I know there are a number that believe it would have little gain to turn this club into a less appetizing place to be. But feel free, there are many that are already "acting by not acting" as is apparent by the creation of this thread.

T-boy
03-26-2012, 01:51 PM
Doesn' it become hollow eventually? I don't feel like people are giving excuses, I feel like people are saying they've had enough with a team that has consistently let them down in MLS league play for the past 5 years. Support shouldn't be taken for granted. Some tough love might be a good thing for a change.

I agree with this.

I have never agreed with the "silent protest" stance that the supporters groups have taken in the past. For me, playing with a low murmer, instead of the SG chanting, is little difference to the players, who are concentrating on their game.

If TFC go 2 or 3 goals down at home, I would completely condone a chorus of boo's from the stands. I don't think anything would piss off the playeres and be more obvious, than the fans actually jeering them whilst they are playing. I know its harsh, but if management and players want to know how we really feel, we HAVE to let them know.

I know it's harsh, but sometimes you have to be harsh to get things moving in life.

Fort York Redcoat
03-26-2012, 01:53 PM
Alright. I lied. I will comment.


I do not boo.


It's too fucking easy.

J .
03-26-2012, 06:05 PM
The effort on the pitch and in the stands were equal in result. From opening kickoff we really were not into it. We had decent moments with Polish Dave attempting to encourage people, Parkdale leading the massive then it fell off the vocal cliff as people stopped responding after the opening SJ goal. It was not the results on the pitch that caused a poor result in the stands it came from within ourselves from well before the 3-0 final result.

What is more disheartening than the final result is when the match is 0-0 and people are just standing around, or even at 1-0 not trying to elevate the atmosphere. Its going on six years of dysfunctional results on the field and even more for Canadian soccer, so really, its not about the results on the field.

Look at the people who contribute themselves on a regular basis in song and tifo as inspiration rather than Ty Harden, DeGuzman and co. You are not rewarding the team by participating for 90 minutes when you join in the vocal efforts, you are participating in solidarity with your fellow supporter.

Only you should dictate your effort not Reggie Lambe. If you fortunate enough to attend matches in a supporters section bring passion along with yourself. When its over, boo until your blue or applaud them until it hurts. I love dissenting opinions over pints at the bar - its the spice of life.

Wednesday is a historical moment for the club and Canadian soccer. It is the responsibility of Winter to get the team ready to play for 90 minutes. It is within yourself to be inspired to participate with your fellow supporters. We cannot control how they play but if nothing else we can show them how its done.

90+

Roogsy
03-26-2012, 07:58 PM
I agree with this.

I have never agreed with the "silent protest" stance that the supporters groups have taken in the past. For me, playing with a low murmer, instead of the SG chanting, is little difference to the players, who are concentrating on their game.

If TFC go 2 or 3 goals down at home, I would completely condone a chorus of boo's from the stands. I don't think anything would piss off the playeres and be more obvious, than the fans actually jeering them whilst they are playing. I know its harsh, but if management and players want to know how we really feel, we HAVE to let them know.

I know it's harsh, but sometimes you have to be harsh to get things moving in life.

I am not normally in favour of booing (and especially this early in the season) but there is one inescapable fact and that is that MLSE only fired Preki & Mo after the fans started booing.

As hard as I have been on Winter I have yet to boo the team. If we look out of contention at any point this year I will be right there with the boo-birds. There are no excuses this year.

Chris Wren
03-26-2012, 08:02 PM
The love fest is over. It needs to be accepted that more people want results than to make the players or fellow supporters feel good. On that note I'll end my involvement in this discussion. I most definitely respect your passion, J.

Chris Wren
03-26-2012, 08:05 PM
I would like to add that I defend the booing, but I didn't do it. Like Roogsy says, not yet.

Code Red
03-26-2012, 08:14 PM
The effort on the pitch and in the stands were equal in result. From opening kickoff we really were not into it. We had decent moments with Polish Dave attempting to encourage people, Parkdale leading the massive then it fell off the vocal cliff as people stopped responding after the opening SJ goal. It was not the results on the pitch that caused a poor result in the stands it came from within ourselves from well before the 3-0 final result.

What is more disheartening than the final result is when the match is 0-0 and people are just standing around, or even at 1-0 not trying to elevate the atmosphere. Its going on six years of dysfunctional results on the field and even more for Canadian soccer, so really, its not about the results on the field.

Look at the people who contribute themselves on a regular basis in song and tifo as inspiration rather than Ty Harden, DeGuzman and co. You are not rewarding the team by participating for 90 minutes when you join in the vocal efforts, you are participating in solidarity with your fellow supporter.

Only you should dictate your effort not Reggie Lambe. If you fortunate enough to attend matches in a supporters section bring passion along with yourself. When its over, boo until your blue or applaud them until it hurts. I love dissenting opinions over pints at the bar - its the spice of life.

Wednesday is a historical moment for the club and Canadian soccer. It is the responsibility of Winter to get the team ready to play for 90 minutes. It is within yourself to be inspired to participate with your fellow supporters. We cannot control how they play but if nothing else we can show them how its done.

90+

Well said J.

On that note, nothing less than a stellar effort in the stands will suffice on Wednesday night. This is the semi-f*cking-final of the CCL. The most important game in the team's six year history. Let's show the boys we care!

123 elite
03-26-2012, 08:58 PM
I can't help but feel this thread has gone off-topic for the vast majority of thoughts after the op's. While Phonzo's post was aimed at the wrong guy - simply put there are maybe 10 or 12 guys who give 110% vocally no matter the start time, weather, or teams performance - j. is one of those few and he is justified in starting this thread on a supporters board. That said, the crux of Phonzo's argument is 110% valid (sorry for my poor choice of words).

Each of us who calls ourselves a supporter and not a fan need to look within and think about what that means. If you have a voice next day, you have failed. We have many creative, artistic, and motivated folk around here that do an amazing job with banners and displays, and pick up the slack for the rest of us. All we need to do is show up and go crazy for 90 minutes. That's it. We can go back to our menial and unimportant jobs come Monday and slack there if need be. As someone said earlier, we have rested on our laurels for too long and we need to remedy that. Want to boo at the whistle to show your displeasure? I have no issue if you have done all you can do to prevent that for the previous 2 hours. Otherwise, fuck off.

It is what we make it. Look. Within. Yourself.

Absolute nonsense. I am passionate without losing my voice. I like my job and there is nothing... absolutely nothing i or anyone can do to change anything on the park. Yes we can support but there is no single way of doing that. What that takes is the skills of the players and the savvy of the coaching staff. You may aswell say everyone in the southend should take a deep breath and if we all blow hard enough the ball can't go in. Its this kind of dumb comment that makes me bang my head on a railing more than having watched the single biggest waste of time and space on TFC ie JDG playout yet another unmemorble day at the office

Bobinhood
03-26-2012, 08:58 PM
To be honest, I'm never sure what to think when someone prefaces a thought with the observation that this one is "honest". What does that mean about everything else you say?

g:D

I'm in sales. whenever someone says "honestly" hes about to tell a lie. ;)

AL-MO
03-26-2012, 09:30 PM
Well said J.

On that note, nothing less than a stellar effort in the stands will suffice on Wednesday night. This is the semi-f*cking-final of the CCL. The most important game in the team's six year history. Let's show the boys we care!

What this guy said!

:flare:

AL-MO
03-26-2012, 09:31 PM
Absolute nonsense. I am passionate without losing my voice. I like my job and there is nothing... absolutely nothing i or anyone can do to change anything on the park. Yes we can support but there is no single way of doing that. What that takes is the skills of the players and the savvy of the coaching staff. You may aswell say everyone in the southend should take a deep breath and if we all blow hard enough the ball can't go in. Its this kind of dumb comment that makes me bang my head on a railing more than having watched the single biggest waste of time and space on TFC ie JDG playout yet another unmemorble day at the office

I don't know why guys like you wade into these 'Support' discussions, because you don't have a clue.

Whoop
03-26-2012, 09:32 PM
I am not normally in favour of booing (and especially this early in the season) but there is one inescapable fact and that is that MLSE only fired Preki & Mo after the fans started booing.

As hard as I have been on Winter I have yet to boo the team. If we look out of contention at any point this year I will be right there with the boo-birds. There are no excuses this year.

Wasn't it said that Brian Burke really only considered firing Ron Wilson after hearing the fans chant "Fire Wilson"? The rationale being if the team came back to Toronto and he was still behind the bench the fans would give it to Wilson even worse?

There is something to said about making your voice heard.

London
03-27-2012, 07:11 AM
^^^ yes there is vic, but like some said above, this was hardly the time or place for booing.

mo deserved to be booed out of town, and thats what he got ( a little late but still gone)

Fort York Redcoat
03-27-2012, 07:41 AM
The love fest is over. It needs to be accepted that more people want results than to make the players or fellow supporters feel good. On that note I'll end my involvement in this discussion. I most definitely respect your passion, J.

Thanks for your involvement Chris but look at that stadium any matchday and you'll see that there's always "more people" who's full range of vocals include booing and not much else. That won't change how I support.


Absolute nonsense. I am passionate without losing my voice. I like my job and there is nothing... absolutely nothing i or anyone can do to change anything on the park. Yes we can support but there is no single way of doing that. What that takes is the skills of the players and the savvy of the coaching staff. You may aswell say everyone in the southend should take a deep breath and if we all blow hard enough the ball can't go in. Its this kind of dumb comment that makes me bang my head on a railing more than having watched the single biggest waste of time and space on TFC ie JDG playout yet another unmemorble day at the office

Yes I can read how important it is to you to diminish our influence as supporters in a match. I won't apologize for supporting none the less but feel free and continue bashing your head on the railing if it helps with your frustration over our positive energy. Just be sure to be random about it otherwise we could sing to the beat.:)


I don't know why guys like you wade into these 'Support' discussions, because you don't have a clue.

Now, now. He has a clue and a differing opinion. An opinion that may be practiced at large in the stadium but isn't very popular in the supporters stands.

__wowza
03-27-2012, 08:20 AM
So they only need motivating, when they don't need motivating? Uhhh....

jaxul clarified my point. its not up to us to motivate a player when theyre walking on the pitch without the motivation to play already. they have to give us something, they have to walk onto the pitch ready to go. if they faulter, so be it, we'll pick them up and dust them off, but if they show up without the will to play, it's not my job to start making them care. they should already care.



On that note I'll end my involvement in this discussion. I most definitely respect your passion, J.

feels that he made his point, leaves the convo saying he respects the differing opinion of others. class act!


On that note, nothing less than a stellar effort in the stands will suffice on Wednesday night. This is the semi-f*cking-final of the CCL. The most important game in the team's six year history. Let's show the boys we care!

this, this and a million times.. this!
ill chant for a full 90 even if its just due to the fact that they made it this far. even if we get absolutely demolished, and i implore each of you to do the same. we made it out of the voyagers cup, qualifying, group stage and semi final stages. now we're the only team in the CCL now with strong away efforts and a win over the golden boys of the MLS. if that's not worth a full 90, i dont know what is.


I don't know why guys like you wade into these 'Support' discussions, because you don't have a clue.

easy now, it's just a different opinion. lets not turn a debate into an argument.

Primavera
03-27-2012, 08:48 AM
No problem with the booing. It was an awful showing and it's not house league - they're pros and should be able to handle hearing the displeasure from the people who are paying the bills.

Looking forward to a better showing tomorrow night.

Chris Wren
03-27-2012, 10:56 AM
Thanks _wowza. I feel obligated to acknowledge I might have been slightly over the top early in the discussion. Sometimes this can be like politics. I may disagree with some opinions but in the end it's important I remember we all passionately support TFC. To your point about Wednesday, I promise to refocus and give it my all as a supporter. Now I'm out for real.

T-boy
03-27-2012, 11:13 AM
No problem with the booing. It was an awful showing and it's not house league - they're pros and should be able to handle hearing the displeasure from the people who are paying the bills.

Looking forward to a better showing tomorrow night.

I totally agree with this.

Roogsy
03-27-2012, 11:19 AM
No problem with the booing. It was an awful showing and it's not house league - they're pros and should be able to handle hearing the displeasure from the people who are paying the bills.

Looking forward to a better showing tomorrow night.

If they can't handle a little discontent from the polite Toronto/Canadian fans, I am not sure what they will do in front of rabid Mexican fans in the CCL.

They'd better hope this job sticks here in MLS because if they have to ply their jobs in leagues in some parts of this world with such weak constitution, they are going to get eaten alive.

Jcm144
03-27-2012, 11:48 AM
Speaking of the CCL game against Santos, does anyone know how tickets are selling?

denime
03-27-2012, 11:55 AM
Tested on TM yesterday and was able to find 2 in 123 sec. $203 for pair.

Still not sellout,makes me wonder how bad would it be if we were at RC again.

tfcleeds
03-27-2012, 12:23 PM
^^^ yes there is vic, but like some said above, this was hardly the time or place for booing.mo deserved to be booed out of town, and thats what he got ( a little late but still gone)It is, and it isn't too early. Yes, it's still early in the season so the booing in our first league home match might seem a little extreme. On the other hand, this is year 6, and I for one had certain expectations for this team going into the season. Making the playoffs is absolutely one of those expectations, and nothing less will suffice. To get off to this bad a start in the league AGAIN doesn't bode well. We have a relatively soft start to the league schedule, playing less than stellar opposition at home, and getting these points will be absolutely crucial towards achieving our playoff ambitions. San Jose is not an elite MLS team (although Wondo is arguably an elite striker in MLS) and losing to them in the manner we did was absolutely inexcusable. Therefore, I think the booing in this instance is somewhat justified.

Whoop
03-27-2012, 12:38 PM
I've never booed the team - that's just me - but I don't blame those who do or have.

Just because you're a supporter it doesn't mean you can't be critical of the team. Actually most of the beloved supporter groups across the world are heavily critical of their teams when it's appropriate.

Was game 2 an appropriate time? Maybe, maybe not. But it sure was a lackluster performance. I look at it like "guys, that wasn't a good performance you have to do better than that. We'll be there for you but that was unacceptable."

denime
03-29-2012, 05:40 AM
Part 2:

http://redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?31279-Onward