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dantdot
03-24-2012, 11:41 AM
Lineups:

TFC - Kocic; Eckersley, Harden, Aceval, Morgan; Dunfield, de Guzman, Silva; Lambe, Johnson, Plata
Bench - Brian Rowe; Emory, Maund, Avila Burgos Jr., Soolsma, Koevermans

SJ - Busch, Beitashour, Bernardez, Morrow, Corrales, Chavez, Cronin, Moreno, Salinas, Wondolowski, Lenhart
Bench - Bingham, Hernandez, Alexandre, Baca, Dawkins, Stephenson, Guvenisik


Streams(unconfirmed):
http://www.firstrowsports.eu/watch/115090/2/watch-toronto-fc-vs-san-jose-earthquakes.html
http://www.firstrowsports.eu/watch/115090/1/watch-toronto-fc-vs-san-jose-earthquakes.html (http://www.firstrowsports.eu/watch/115090/1/watch-toronto-fc-vs-san-jose-earthquakes.html)
http://www.vipbox.tv/watch/41880/1/toronto-fc-vs-san-jose-earthquakes-live-stream-online.html
(http://www.ilemi.me/48732/1/Watch-Toronto-FC-vs-San-Jose-Earthquakes-/)http://www.tv-link.me.uk/p/sports34-4.html
http://www.ilemi.me/48732/1/Watch-Toronto-FC-vs-San-Jose-Earthquakes-/ (http://www.ilemi.me/48732/1/Watch-Toronto-FC-vs-San-Jose-Earthquakes-/)

dantdot
03-24-2012, 11:42 AM
Looks like we're using a pool keeper? Brian Rowe.

Lambe gets the start, I hope he finally shows something.

Seen
03-24-2012, 11:45 AM
Stream:http://www.vipbox.tv/watch/41880/1/toronto-fc-vs-san-jose-earthquakes-live-stream-online.html

MartinUtd
03-24-2012, 11:46 AM
*sigh* my first year as a non-SSH. I'm still hung over and sick from LA/Seattle so I guess it all worked out..lol

Interesting that Lambe is coming on with presumably Johnson up top. RJ is playing like a DP lately so it's good we're in a position to pose a threat while resting Koevermans for the bigger midweek game. Also, I'm guessing Rowe is our back up GK.. what's his story?

LesH
03-24-2012, 11:49 AM
Stream:http://www.vipbox.tv/watch/41880/1/toronto-fc-vs-san-jose-earthquakes-live-stream-online.html

Showing Arsenal vs aston Villa right now.

Please post any other streams anyone will find.

MartinUtd
03-24-2012, 11:50 AM
More streams

http://www.firstrowsports.eu/watch/115090/1/watch-toronto-fc-vs-san-jose-earthquakes.html

This one doesn't have anything there yet but apparently it will populate before the game starts

http://livetv.ru/en/eventinfo/110806_toronto_san_jose/

Seen
03-24-2012, 11:52 AM
Showing Arsenal vs aston Villa right now.

Please post any other streams anyone will find.

Don't worry, it will be there.

LesH
03-24-2012, 11:52 AM
Thanks Martin UTD!

MartinUtd
03-24-2012, 11:54 AM
No prob. One more:

http://www.usagoals.com/live/88938-toronto-fc-vs-san-jose/watch/stream/online/free/feed/p2p/en/vivo/tv/gratis/

Gallade
03-24-2012, 11:59 AM
Plata's the first guy I would have rested for Santos, not Koevermans - he gets so much from being fresh and fast. maybe we'll see Soolsma start against Santos and Plata as a sub.

today's lineup should be nice and fast and flowing, hopefully it'll be a fun game

Dunkers
03-24-2012, 12:00 PM
Stream:http://www.vipbox.tv/watch/41880/1/toronto-fc-vs-san-jose-earthquakes-live-stream-online.html

looks good to go, no lag either

Mark TFC
03-24-2012, 12:01 PM
Come on you Reds!

Soccerpro
03-24-2012, 12:05 PM
Ty Harden starting again? Give me a break. How many goals does he have to be directly responsible for before he's replaced with a pilon that has a TFC jersey over it.

Koev is on the bench. What a disappointing start to the season he's had.
Hope Dunfield brings something to the game today other than just "hard work".

I have a very bad feeling about this game.

James17930
03-24-2012, 12:05 PM
This one's working too -- has the TSN feed:

http://www.tv-link.me.uk/p/sports34-4.html

DoubleUp
03-24-2012, 12:05 PM
Like silvas hair cut.

mowe
03-24-2012, 12:08 PM
Sparse crowd to start the match.

dantdot
03-24-2012, 12:10 PM
Silva down, please.....no

Soccerpro
03-24-2012, 12:10 PM
Sparse crowd to start the match.

Typical T.O late comers.

jloome
03-24-2012, 12:13 PM
Hate that frizzy blonde bitch Lenhart. He's like the Ken Linsman of target forwards.

LesH
03-24-2012, 12:13 PM
Fuck off with this high line again, I really hope they ain't trying to play this game again with this BS tactic!

MartinUtd
03-24-2012, 12:15 PM
Some pretty ugly football in the first 5 minutes

jloome
03-24-2012, 12:15 PM
Have to play a high line. Just have to do it well. it's best way to shut down MLS-style direct play, if done right. If screwed up.... eek.

dantdot
03-24-2012, 12:15 PM
A meaningful forward pass would be nice...

jloome
03-24-2012, 12:16 PM
DeGuzman looks active today. Good sign.

jloome
03-24-2012, 12:17 PM
Eek. We're asleep out there. Could be a rough day.

mowe
03-24-2012, 12:17 PM
Looks like this team has a long way to go.

Soccerpro
03-24-2012, 12:17 PM
I called it. SJ 1 - TFC 0

dantdot
03-24-2012, 12:17 PM
Can't say that wasn't coming. Pathetic start.

MartinUtd
03-24-2012, 12:17 PM
Saw that coming. Frings' absence is very apparent.

ArmenJBX
03-24-2012, 12:17 PM
It's just become way too easy to score against us.
No midfield play (as usual), just cross forward, hope for the best. Way too easy for San Jose.

Folks, we're not playing 4-3-3 soccer, that's for sure.

LesH
03-24-2012, 12:18 PM
Well deserved by the visitor team, they began well, and TFC began playing like shit...

ag futbol
03-24-2012, 12:18 PM
This team looks absolutely awful right now.

Have we put three passes together yet?

jloome
03-24-2012, 12:19 PM
That was a tight call.

I dunno about 4-3-3- being the issue so much as having young, inexperienced defenders and guys who may just not be smart enough. Everyone there just stuck with their man, instead of pushing up. Idiotic.

MartinUtd
03-24-2012, 12:22 PM
Cross to Plata... headed away

MartinUtd
03-24-2012, 12:22 PM
Good pressure though

jloome
03-24-2012, 12:24 PM
This is better now. Fucking woke up.

ArmenJBX
03-24-2012, 12:28 PM
The whole point of this system is to maintain and control possession.

The way Toronto FC play right now is back pass to keeper (gives away possession), high balls to Plata (gives away possession), boot forward and bypass midfield (gives away possession) and play with two centerbacks stretched across the width (does not maintain possession)

We're not playing 4-3-3 style at all, we're lined up with the right players but we're not in the right mentality.

ArmenJBX
03-24-2012, 12:30 PM
And the off-the-ball movement is non-existent. This isn't an issue of having the wrong players or the wrong lineup, we're simply not aware of the style we're supposed to be playing. It's like the players need to spend some time in the classroom rather than on the training pitch.

We're ignorant of the style required to pull this off.

MartinUtd
03-24-2012, 12:34 PM
omg Harden with an almost own goal

LesH
03-24-2012, 12:35 PM
Harden almost own goal...

MartinUtd
03-24-2012, 12:36 PM
Damn I bet Johnson wishes he could have that back.

mowe
03-24-2012, 12:36 PM
Silva's strength is what makes him a better option than Avila. He doesn't get pushed off the ball as easily.

TFC USA
03-24-2012, 12:37 PM
Fuck Ty Harden. That is all.

If Winter keeps putting this fucker out then he's demented or Harden has photos of him blowing Rob Ford.

Soccerpro
03-24-2012, 12:37 PM
omg Harden with an almost own goal

I've never seen that before!

Soccerpro
03-24-2012, 12:37 PM
Every week I ask why Ty Harden is still a member of TFC. No one can ever give me an answer.

ag futbol
03-24-2012, 12:39 PM
Someone has to calm this team down a bit. They are way too spastic

PS Lambe needs to throw in on a few challenges otherwise I don't see the point of him being on the field

MartinUtd
03-24-2012, 12:46 PM
What do you mean? Like he could do more defensively? I think Lambe looks pretty good so far.

JavierMartini
03-24-2012, 12:51 PM
ps hardn didnt even challenge on the goal

ag futbol
03-24-2012, 12:52 PM
I just dont' see it. He gets muscled off the ball way too easily and doesn't exactly do much when he has space. Really disapointing

ArmenJBX
03-24-2012, 12:54 PM
These guys need to spend 90 minutes a day watching Barcelona and then handing in a report on what the player in their own position does regarding movement, passing, etc etc. (ie. Ecks - Dani Alves).

MartinUtd
03-24-2012, 12:55 PM
I'll give you that but he's put in some good balls and has some good chemistry with Silva. Still too early to make a proper judgment call though.

ag futbol
03-24-2012, 12:57 PM
Is it too much to ask to shield the camera from rain? or at least wipe the lens

JavierMartini
03-24-2012, 01:00 PM
Is it too much to ask to shield the camera from rain? or at least wipe the lens

indeed. i would prefer harden actually get up and challenge on the goal

iy12l
03-24-2012, 01:06 PM
sub ty harden off right now!!! put emory or someone else on!

Soccerpro
03-24-2012, 01:07 PM
The problems for todays game thus far.

1. We didn't show up in the first 15 mins.
2. Ecks boots it up the wing instead of passing it on the ground to a teammate.
3. Lacking a bit of bite in CM (i'm not a fan of Dunfield, not skilled enough for me)

daner90
03-24-2012, 01:12 PM
big daddy cool in, dunny out

MartinUtd
03-24-2012, 01:12 PM
Koevermans in for Dunfield

Couchy81
03-24-2012, 01:12 PM
It's really ridiculous how many long balls and crosses are sent to Plata. The guy will NEVER win it even if it's accurate unless the defender completely misses.

MartinUtd
03-24-2012, 01:13 PM
Great start!

iy12l
03-24-2012, 01:13 PM
koef almost scored!

TFC USA
03-24-2012, 01:14 PM
Decent effort by Lambe.

MartinUtd
03-24-2012, 01:16 PM
Starting to question Plata's vision, or lack thereof

iy12l
03-24-2012, 01:18 PM
we sould of been playing like this from the beggining

TFC USA
03-24-2012, 01:19 PM
Aaaaand Plata is hurt bad.

Piling up bodies already.

ag futbol
03-24-2012, 01:19 PM
I think he's ok.

Aceval left foot time

Soccerpro
03-24-2012, 01:19 PM
Lambe is playing a bit better after a shaky start.

ag futbol
03-24-2012, 01:21 PM
Lambe is playing a bit better after a shaky start.
Agreed much better start to the second half

daner90
03-24-2012, 01:22 PM
gotta finish one here...

iy12l
03-24-2012, 01:22 PM
we suck at taking corners

MartinUtd
03-24-2012, 01:23 PM
Oh god..

iy12l
03-24-2012, 01:23 PM
fack!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

TFC USA
03-24-2012, 01:23 PM
Game fuckin over.

ArmenJBX
03-24-2012, 01:23 PM
HOW is it THIS SIMPLE to score against us!!?!?!

HOWWWWWWWW!?!?!?!?

King Jeff
03-24-2012, 01:24 PM
Decent counter-attacking goal, to be fair.

TFC USA
03-24-2012, 01:24 PM
Aceval was awful there.

This defense is shitter than ever.

Soccerpro
03-24-2012, 01:24 PM
Aceval with a stupid decision to open the hole up for the right winger.

MartinUtd
03-24-2012, 01:25 PM
I don't think Acavel could have made the right choice there. It was a 5 on 2 and he had three SJ players to cover.

Soccerpro
03-24-2012, 01:25 PM
How many teams make the playoffs that start 0-2?

iy12l
03-24-2012, 01:25 PM
if they score a third one im out

Beach_Red
03-24-2012, 01:27 PM
How many teams make the playoffs that start 0-2?

From the east division?

ag futbol
03-24-2012, 01:27 PM
Who is supposed to be shielding the backine. They are basically running unimpeded against the last line of defenders

That play certainty wasn't flattering to Aceval, but it there were multiple people out of position and not doing their job.

MrRobson
03-24-2012, 01:28 PM
All this game proves is how good frings is. The guy is a stud, Wish we had him for Vancouver.

Couchy81
03-24-2012, 01:28 PM
De Guzmans salary would surely be more valuable used on a dp defender

Soccerpro
03-24-2012, 01:29 PM
5 goals given up in our first 2 games. We have the same problem on defence as last year with TFC. Missing Frings shielding the back line is going to make it worse.

iy12l
03-24-2012, 01:29 PM
we are so shit

ArmenJBX
03-24-2012, 01:29 PM
It's unbelievable how ignorant our defenders are, how recurring these same mistakes are.

We really do have the worst defence in MLS, statistically and visibly. Our forwards will be fine, but the back line is nowhere near good enough, and Aron Winter came nowhere close to filling the most obvious gap in the centre defence. We didn't sign enough smart, capable defenders and with such an over reliance on Frings, it's become increasingly obvious that when he's not playing, Toronto FC simply cannot defend.

iy12l
03-24-2012, 01:30 PM
great maund is coming on...

Soccerpro
03-24-2012, 01:31 PM
Now Winter takes off Ty Harden, at the 63rd minute for Aaron Maund....

Winter I don't understand you sometimes.

Why even play Harden, why play Maund?

iy12l
03-24-2012, 01:32 PM
if we started with emory im sure the first goal wouldnt of happened

Redcoe15
03-24-2012, 01:33 PM
FUUUUUK! Our side can't buy a goal, yet the other side has no problem scoring. Why the fuck does the soccer gods hate TFC? Huh?

Redcoe15
03-24-2012, 01:34 PM
Fuck you, big bird!!!

Soccerpro
03-24-2012, 01:34 PM
Why doesn't Emory start?

mowe
03-24-2012, 01:35 PM
This is a nightmare.

MrRobson
03-24-2012, 01:35 PM
wow.

ArmenJBX
03-24-2012, 01:35 PM
LOL

"it is far too simple" - Luke Wileman

You got that right.

iy12l
03-24-2012, 01:35 PM
fack this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Redcoe15
03-24-2012, 01:35 PM
See what I mean? FUCK! FUCK! FUCK! FUCK! FUCK!

iy12l
03-24-2012, 01:35 PM
im out!!!!!!

Couchy81
03-24-2012, 01:36 PM
Look at the names on the jerseys of the players jogging back during sj's rush. Get rid of all of them.

daner90
03-24-2012, 01:36 PM
yikes

Beach_Red
03-24-2012, 01:38 PM
It's unbelievable how ignorant our defenders are, how recurring these same mistakes are.

We really do have the worst defence in MLS, statistically and visibly. Our forwards will be fine, but the back line is nowhere near good enough, and Aron Winter came nowhere close to filling the most obvious gap in the centre defence. We didn't sign enough smart, capable defenders and with such an over reliance on Frings, it's become increasingly obvious that when he's not playing, Toronto FC simply cannot defend.

But the forwards do need to score a goal once in a while, don't they?

boban
03-24-2012, 01:38 PM
Noticing few issues with this team that don't look good.
When we play Johnson up top he is taking waay too many crosses. Especially when he is on the right side taking the cross we don't have bodies in the middle, and the one we do he is just too short too do anything with it.
I believe we will not improve our defence until we improve the personal in the front 4 or 5. When we attack we don't have the finishing that other teams do, and it seems we are lacking the bodies going forward. No amount of quality defender is going to defend against the number teams push forward on us - evidenced in this game. I believe part of that reason is our lack of offensive threat. And our goaltending has to improve. Although both good, neither goalie is some thing to write home about. Never was - despite the chants from the stands about Frie. And it's not necessarily about the saves. I simply don't think they know how to marshall the men in front of them. So it's not just abut the back 4 personnel, it's more than that and bigger than that.

Soccerpro
03-24-2012, 01:38 PM
This team sucks. Winter didn't bring in the stud CB we needed this off season. Contrary to what anyone says we don't have depth. The only impact player we brought in this year is a NCAA rookie.

Ty Harden is still playing, Terry Dunfield is still getting playing time, players that just aren't good enough in MLS.

DangerRed
03-24-2012, 01:38 PM
Wow, glad I chose to watch this shitshow from home. To everyone who said I'm out to lunch with how bad this team is compared to the rest of MLS, I ask you again: have I really been so negative, or am I just pretty realistic. Until you're starting people other than Ty Harden, Terry Dunfield and a bunch of kids from the Academy with zero experience and who shake in their boots at the slightest sign of pressure, we will continue to be the worst in the league defensively.

Carry on.

mowe
03-24-2012, 01:38 PM
Johnson looks gassed, Soolsma should come on.

Mark TFC
03-24-2012, 01:38 PM
I love this club more than anything but this match is becoming harder and harder to watch. Our defence is in shambles - we're letting them do whatever they want with the ball. And another thing that's killing me is the countless missed opportunities. It's not like we're playing the most terrible match. We've had plenty of nice build-up play, just can't put the final touches on the ball when it matters.

MrRobson
03-24-2012, 01:39 PM
Thats a good point about dunfield.

Why is dunfield on tfc to begin with?, he was probably the worst player for the whitecaps last year, and this year he is starting for TFC.

makes no sense.

I truly believe TFC is much better then what they are showing, and just proves how important frings is for this team.

RealG-TFC
03-24-2012, 01:43 PM
why is johnson still on the field?

ag futbol
03-24-2012, 01:44 PM
But the forwards do need to score a goal once in a while, don't they?
Agreed, our much vaunted attack is of little substance. Johnson has come to play this year and Silva is promising but otherwise there isn't much going on.

Koevermans is badly out of shape and the other players have provided little end product.

DangerRed
03-24-2012, 01:46 PM
Also, allow me to be bold, but Plata -- even though he's a huge fan favorite -- is vastly over-rated. Horrible first touch today and has given the ball away at least three times in the second half from what I could count.

MG42
03-24-2012, 01:46 PM
all signs point to us getting destroyed on Wednesday lol

iy12l
03-24-2012, 01:46 PM
winter is a dumbass... pre-season is meant to get everyones fitness up. Half of our team isnt even fit

Mark TFC
03-24-2012, 01:46 PM
Give us a goal, boys. Let's put something in the net.

ArmenJBX
03-24-2012, 01:47 PM
Also, allow me to be bold, but Plata -- even though he's a huge fan favorite -- is vastly over-rated. Horrible first touch today and has given the ball away at least three times in the second half from what I could count.


He's going to hit a sophomore slump so badly this year if this form is indicative of the rest of the season

boban
03-24-2012, 01:48 PM
Agreed. But I believe he will be suffering fro a sophomore jinx this year.
For that reason I'm not going to get on his case or give up on him. He's still young.

Mark TFC
03-24-2012, 01:49 PM
We have given them those 3 goals. All mental lapses, not enough hustle.

boban
03-24-2012, 01:50 PM
winter is a dumbass...

And you know what more than him?????

Soccerpro
03-24-2012, 01:51 PM
And you know what more than him?????

He probably knows Ty Harden, Terry Dunfield and Aaron Maund shouldn't be playing in MLS right now. It seems Winter doesn't.

Mark TFC
03-24-2012, 01:51 PM
And you know what more than him?????

Let people talk. Everyone will love him soon.

DangerRed
03-24-2012, 01:54 PM
Let people talk. Everyone will love him soon.

Ooh, I'm saving your post. How's midseason sound? Is that "soon" enough for you? Will people love Winter by then?

ag futbol
03-24-2012, 01:54 PM
I don't think there is anything terribly unexpected from Plata. He played at a certain level last year and showed promise. However, he was always inconsistent.

That's the thing with a lot of the players this team has put in as key parts (Morgan, Johnson, Avila, Plata, etc...) performances were OK last year but not what they need to be to make the playoffs. So we were banking on potential and right now that potential is not being realized.

Mark TFC
03-24-2012, 01:55 PM
Ooh, I'm saving your post. How's midseason sound? Is that "soon" enough for you? Will people love Winter by then?

Probably.

boban
03-24-2012, 01:56 PM
He probably knows Ty Harden, Terry Dunfield and Aaron Maund shouldn't be playing in MLS right now. It seems Winter doesn't.

And I'm sure other teams have players who are not up to snuff for the league, yet they still play.
Winter has a better picture of the WHOLE situation more than all of us combined.
Sometimes you have to make due until you have all the pieces in place.

Couchy81
03-24-2012, 01:56 PM
Two off-seasons plus a season and a half is probably the rough make or break point for Winter.

Mark TFC
03-24-2012, 01:57 PM
Over 60% possession in our favour. Simply not clinical enough today.

tfc007
03-24-2012, 01:58 PM
Its going to be a long season boys! 8 goals against so far in 4 games? FUCKEN BRUTAL DEFENSE! Six years of the same fucken bullshit,Thank goodness I didnt waist my time going down to BMO!I bought tickets for CL game and seeing this I am going to think twice of going down to the game.Guys over the last couple of seasons the flame that burned so strong for the love of the TFC within me is starting to burn out! I hope things turn around! SOON!

DangerRed
03-24-2012, 01:58 PM
Probably.

Deal. I predict people will hate Winter by then and we'll be languishing towards the bottom of the league. I hope you're right, but I know you're not.

I know what you're thinking. How can I possibly be pessimistic after the first game of the season?! But this isn't really a first of anything. I sat at BMO every game last year and saw this same movie. This season will just be a painful sequel.

Soccerpro
03-24-2012, 02:00 PM
And I'm sure other teams have players who are not up to snuff for the league, yet they still play.
Winter has a better picture of the WHOLE situation more than all of us combined.
Sometimes you have to make due until you have all the pieces in place.

You're letting him off with a free pass. He had the offseason to improve key areas of the team. He didn't do it.
Other teams may have players who are not up to snuff for the league, but I haven't seen them yet in the teams TFC have played.

Beach_Red
03-24-2012, 02:01 PM
And I'm sure other teams have players who are not up to snuff for the league, yet they still play.
Winter has a better picture of the WHOLE situation more than all of us combined.
Sometimes you have to make due until you have all the pieces in place.

It does seem odd that the two DPs were brought in so early in Winter's tenure here. It seems like decisions were made before there was a very deep understanding of MLS.

billygrieveuk
03-24-2012, 02:04 PM
shower of shite....
good luck on wednesday

boban
03-24-2012, 02:05 PM
Deal. I predict people will hate Winter by then and we'll be languishing towards the bottom of the league. I hope you're right, but I know you're not.

I know what you're thinking. How can I possibly be pessimistic after the first game of the season?! But this isn't really a first of anything. I sat at BMO every game last year and saw this same movie. This season will just be a painful sequel.

Part of me believe what you are saying. But another part is really rooting for Winter.
But if he doesn't succeed, truthfully it really isn't his fault. Look at the Raptors and Leafs over the past few years in coaching and management.
And all 3 teams continue to struggle. You can't 100% blame them. The real solution to this mess is what is above them in the command structure. And that's MLSE. Until that fundumentlly and tangently changes we will continue to suck. :(

CSO_BBTB
03-24-2012, 02:06 PM
You're letting him off with a free pass. He had the offseason to improve key areas of the team. He didn't do it.
Other teams may have players who are not up to snuff for the league, but I haven't seen them yet in the teams TFC have played.

Questions definitely need to be asked about why Caiceido and Aceval were signed prior to the training camp. Beyond central defence though the team actually looks quite decent. This season is still salvageable if a way can be found to sort out the defence. I'd think about shifting Eckersley into the middle until Frings and/or Cann are available.

Mark TFC
03-24-2012, 02:07 PM
I'm upset because this loss shouldn't have been as bad as it was. We let San Jose run free when they did have possession.

boban
03-24-2012, 02:07 PM
You're letting him off with a free pass. He had the offseason to improve key areas of the team. He didn't do it.
Other teams may have players who are not up to snuff for the league, but I haven't seen them yet in the teams TFC have played.

And what makes you think he didn't try and look into it. Maybe a player or two he identified for our D didn't want to make the trip here, or we are waiting for the summer transfer window. You don't know, so don't pass judgement on some thing you have knowledge of.

LesH
03-24-2012, 02:09 PM
Thats a good point about dunfield.

Why is dunfield on tfc to begin with?, he was probably the worst player for the whitecaps last year, and this year he is starting for TFC.

makes no sense.

I truly believe TFC is much better then what they are showing, and just proves how important frings is for this team.

Sorry, I believe exactly the contrary:
When the absence of a single player is being felt so badly it shows how weak really a team is!

Mark TFC
03-24-2012, 02:10 PM
We need to come back to help out when we do decide to push so far forward. We also can't stand back and let other teams dump the ball in wherever they want when we are on the defensive.

CSO_BBTB
03-24-2012, 02:11 PM
I'm upset because this loss shouldn't have been as bad as it was. We let San Jose run free when they did have possession.

They deliberately played a counterattacking style and went after Aceval for pace in a big way because he often gets left exposed with acres of space to cover when Morgan goes on the overlap. MLS is a very athletic league and he might not be able to handle that aspect of things much like Marco Reda in 2007.

Soccerpro
03-24-2012, 02:13 PM
And what makes you think he didn't try and look into it. Maybe a player or two he identified for our D didn't want to make the trip here, or we are waiting for the summer transfer window. You don't know, so don't pass judgement on some thing you have knowledge of.

You're right. Let's give him the benfit of the doubt that he tried and none of this is his fault, as manager, so we should just forget about it, and be happy we have a pro soccer team that hasn't made the playoffs in their existance.

Or we could say for instance, why did he sign two centerbacks before training camp and bring them in so late?
Or we could ask, how come he keeps playing Harden and Maund, when Emory has looked good?
Or why does he play Terry Dunfunfield when the Caps gave him away for, literally, nothing last year.
Or we could ask how come he hasn't been able to implement a competent defence yet?

There's nothing wrong with asking valid questions as a supporter. He's the man in charge.

ag futbol
03-24-2012, 02:14 PM
Yeah, I'm not going to pass judgement yet but my gut feeling is saying "show me how we're better than we were at the end of last year?".

I don't expect to get anything out of Wednesday but the two leagues games after that are must perform. Losing to like we did today to either montreal or columbus is entirely unacceptable.

LesH
03-24-2012, 02:18 PM
Part of me believe what you are saying. But another part is really rooting for Winter.
But if he doesn't succeed, truthfully it really isn't his fault. Look at the Raptors and Leafs over the past few years in coaching and management.
And all 3 teams continue to struggle. You can't 100% blame them. The real solution to this mess is what is above them in the command structure. And that's MLSE. Until that fundumentlly and tangently changes we will continue to suck. :(

I wish you're not right, because if you are... we'll continue to suck forever.
Things in the command structure and fundamentals in MLSE will never ever change.

forzatoronto
03-24-2012, 02:29 PM
Pretty simple, we have extremely poor defensive players. That's been the case for the last, hmm, five years. The only consolation is that at least current management isn't looking to build a team of Championship rejects.

And MLSE is never going to leave, when Peddie, Anselmi, etc. retire they're going to hand the reins to like-minded people. Am I the only one who's just a little jealous of what Joey Saputo is doing with the Impact?

Macksam
03-24-2012, 02:29 PM
Wow, glad I chose to watch this shitshow from home. To everyone who said I'm out to lunch with how bad this team is compared to the rest of MLS, I ask you again: have I really been so negative, or am I just pretty realistic. Until you're starting people other than Ty Harden, Terry Dunfield and a bunch of kids from the Academy with zero experience and who shake in their boots at the slightest sign of pressure, we will continue to be the worst in the league defensively.

Carry on.

I don't disagree with everything you say but the bolded is just pretentious. Morgan has been great so far this year and rarely ever panicks. Don't put hot sauce on the fire.


Also, allow me to be bold, but Plata -- even though he's a huge fan favorite -- is vastly over-rated. Horrible first touch today and has given the ball away at least three times in the second half from what I could count.
No doubt.

Strans
03-24-2012, 02:31 PM
I wish you're not right, because if you are... we'll continue to suck forever.
Things in the command structure and fundamentals in MLSE will never ever change.

This is a tired argument. MLSE has done a lot of stupid things, but how can you attribute the poor performance on the pitch to a board of directors? They recognized they know nothing about football, hired someone who did (Klinsmann) to bring in the best managerial team (in his opinion), and that's where we stand today.

Mad at the manager? Mad at the players (or lack thereof) he acquired to remedy the preposterous goals against from last year? Be my guest. I know I am. But making this about MLSE is pointless and flat wrong.

DoubleUp
03-24-2012, 02:33 PM
Can we get Issey now he is much more superior winger and plata and canadian.

Detroit_TFC
03-24-2012, 02:34 PM
I've never felt this bad after a loss. I'm dreading the games next week.

Strans
03-24-2012, 02:42 PM
I was (and am) hopeful for this season but a lot of things need to change in a hurry if TFC expects even a sniff of the playoffs.

Losing 3-1 last week in Seattle's home opener? Fine.
Losing 3-0 in your home opener to SJ? Not fine.

Losing a player of Frings' calibre is going to hurt any team in the league but for TFC it seems that he was the duct tape keeping the team to some level of respectability and without him there is just no cohesiveness... quality/depth does not exist.

boban
03-24-2012, 02:52 PM
You're right. Let's give him the benfit of the doubt that he tried and none of this is his fault, as manager, so we should just forget about it, and be happy we have a pro soccer team that hasn't made the playoffs in their existance.

Or we could say for instance, why did he sign two centerbacks before training camp and bring them in so late?
Or we could ask, how come he keeps playing Harden and Maund, when Emory has looked good?
Or why does he play Terry Dunfunfield when the Caps gave him away for, literally, nothing last year.
Or we could ask how come he hasn't been able to implement a competent defence yet?

There's nothing wrong with asking valid questions as a supporter. He's the man in charge.

Ask the question, just don't think he's answered yet. We're all frustrated, as I am sure he is.
Perosnally I don't think Dunfield is all that bad. When we lose we like to pick and pile on one person.
And no coach here has able to implement a compotent defense when they were here. It's one of the mysteries of this team.

Shakes McQueen
03-24-2012, 02:53 PM
I was (and am) hopeful for this season but a lot of things need to change in a hurry if TFC expects even a sniff of the playoffs.

Losing 3-1 last week in Seattle's home opener? Fine.
Losing 3-0 in your home opener to SJ? Not fine.

Losing a player of Frings' calibre is going to hurt any team in the league but for TFC it seems that he was the duct tape keeping the team to some level of respectability and without him there is just no cohesiveness... quality/depth does not exist.

They've been without him for one game. It's too early for such sweeping generalizations about the team.

This was a terrible loss, and I expected more after losing in Seattle. Losing Frings was a huge deal, but they need to get past it. No good football club should fall apart because one player is out of the lineup. I'll be interested to see how they come back this week. Starting off 0-2 in league games is nothing to be happy about, but it's also nothing to go crazy about - yet.

Don't squander the positive support mojo you earned from two gutsy CCL performances. A few more losses and people are going to quickly feel like the ceiling is coming in again. With that said - on to the next one.

- Scott

boban
03-24-2012, 02:55 PM
This is a tired argument. MLSE has done a lot of stupid things, but how can you attribute the poor performance on the pitch to a board of directors? They recognized they know nothing about football, hired someone who did (Klinsmann) to bring in the best managerial team (in his opinion), and that's where we stand today.

Mad at the manager? Mad at the players (or lack thereof) he acquired to remedy the preposterous goals against from last year? Be my guest. I know I am. But making this about MLSE is pointless and flat wrong.
If you caught my argument earlier you would see it has nothing to do with football.
ALL THREE teams suck. They go through the same changes one after another and still the problems persist. Thats a structural problem in ownership. Win, in whichever type og field of play, don't happen until that gets fixed.

boban
03-24-2012, 02:59 PM
Pretty simple, we have extremely poor defensive players. That's been the case for the last, hmm, five years. The only consolation is that at least current management isn't looking to build a team of Championship rejects.
It's not that simple. Our problems are bigger than just the back line.
We have problems in goalkeeping, forwards, and systems.
If you have talent issues in some position you devise a system that mitigates against that.
6 years running we don't have that.
If we can score and become threatening, the opposition will play more defensive which would lesson the attack threat on our back 4.
6 years running we don't have that.
Our goalies are not the best. if they were, the GA would be less just by that alone. let alone on their inability to marshall the defense.
6 years running we don't have that.

Walms
03-24-2012, 03:05 PM
We didn't sign enough smart, capable defenders and with such an over reliance on Frings, it's become increasingly obvious that when he's not playing, Toronto FC simply cannot defend.

Could not say it better

Strans
03-24-2012, 03:24 PM
If you caught my argument earlier you would see it has nothing to do with football.
ALL THREE teams suck. They go through the same changes one after another and still the problems persist. Thats a structural problem in ownership. Win, in whichever type og field of play, don't happen until that gets fixed.

I did miss the beginning of your argument, but I think my rebuttal stands...

What else is that that MLSE could do right now to make TFC/Leafs/Raptors better, or infuse a winning culture? Lets say the board of MLSE is replaced by you. What do you do?

...this is getting a bit off topic. Sorry, hard to let this one be.

Strans
03-24-2012, 03:30 PM
You're right. The sky is, in fact, not falling.

It was a dispiriting loss (obviously) and it is easy to fall into Chicken-Little mode with this team.

I think the concern is that these defensive issues are carryovers from last season and I/we hoped that they would be rectified to some extent by now....

Plus losing Frings just sucks. :(

As you said, on to the next.



They've been without him for one game. It's too early for such sweeping generalizations about the team.

This was a terrible loss, and I expected more after losing in Seattle. Losing Frings was a huge deal, but they need to get past it. No good football club should fall apart because one player is out of the lineup. I'll be interested to see how they come back this week. Starting off 0-2 in league games is nothing to be happy about, but it's also nothing to go crazy about - yet.

Don't squander the positive support mojo you earned from two gutsy CCL performances. A few more losses and people are going to quickly feel like the ceiling is coming in again. With that said - on to the next one.

- Scott

aboyandhisdog
03-24-2012, 03:42 PM
How does a team not improve in 6 years?!? How is it that each year following TFC's addition to MLS an expansion club is able to make it make it farther? Season seat renewals are down...the waiting list is non-existant...the Home Opener wasn't even a sellout. Footfall fans, unlike hockey fans, are showing they will not pay for this less-than-mediocre product. Before long, watching TFC at BMO is going to be like watching Lynx at Varsity. What a waste of potential! Ah, MLSE...

SoccMan
03-24-2012, 03:43 PM
I saw problems with the Seattle loss I saw the same old from last season in that loss, you just can't have a 3-0 loss at home in this league, it very rarely happens in the MLS,however, it continues to happen to this team. After all the positive that came from the LA Champ. series we get this it did not take long for those positives to be deleted with the two stinkers that have followed. I was at the game today and BMO was an ugly place to be today it was cold with no life and the feeling that people have just about given up on this club now going into season six.

ensco
03-24-2012, 03:43 PM
People need to calm down.

The score wasn't reflective of the play. We beat Chicago 4-1 a couple of years ago in a pretty even game in similar conditions (remember LaBrocca's wild free kick from 40 meters that the wind carried into the net?)

Weather was a huge factor. If you weren't there, it was deceptively frigid - the lakeshore gusts just ripped through your body. And of course the wind played havoc with the ball.

SJ look like a very good team to me. Very organized at the back. Bernandez was fantastic - broke up several dangerous moves all by himself.

My one complaint - why do we get Aceval /Caicedo, instead of Victor Bernandez? Why can't we ever be the team to find/sign these guys?

My enthusiasm over getting into CCL semis is not offset by the weak MLS season start. Need to forget this game by tomorrow morning. Time to focus on the rare prize that is in front of us, however high the odds.

AlanO
03-24-2012, 03:45 PM
Trying to find some positives... there were long stretches after the first goal where TFC completely controlled possession; Lambe was quite effective - probably the best player in a red shirt today; Morgan wasn't bad too.

I think Aceval's actually quite good, but he's prone to one or two brain cramps per game that usually seem to result in a goal.

First goal was just pathetic marking. And WTF was Maund doing on the third goal? At least challenge him and make him earn it.

Our forwards had the deer-in-the-headlights look whenever they had a cross coming towards them in the box. Couldn't finish to save their lives.

San Jose sat back and played a counter-attacking game, and did it well.

Finally - I hope Stephen Lenhart falls in a well.

Davenport
03-24-2012, 03:55 PM
Morgan's leaving Arceval exposed at the back. He has to remember he's a defender not a winger.
Every attack came down his side because SJ know he doesn't play his position and caught him out every time.

The new kid Ruiz is a real player.

iy12l
03-24-2012, 03:59 PM
i know this might sound harsh but i would get rid of maund, hes worse than harden. We already have a younger, faster, and slightly better defender (Doneil Henry).

Pookie
03-24-2012, 04:04 PM
Disappointing.

That said, the team that battled LA to a draw and then a road win is still the same team that many of you are frustrated with.

The interesting thing about performance against LA is that they are an MLS team and probably the best in the league this year. We can lament the start but if those CCL games were MLs games the record would be 1-2-1, without much of Frings or Koevermans.

Clear signs of improvement are there and there is plenty of reason for optimism.

As for not signing depth on the backline and relying on Frings, I think that ignores the obvious. Frings is a world class DP, there aren't very many MLS players that can make up for that loss. It's something we will have to suck up for 4 - 6 weeks. There is no other storyline.

boban
03-24-2012, 04:06 PM
I did miss the beginning of your argument, but I think my rebuttal stands...

What else is that that MLSE could do right now to make TFC/Leafs/Raptors better, or infuse a winning culture? Lets say the board of MLSE is replaced by you. What do you do?

...this is getting a bit off topic. Sorry, hard to let this one be.
First, surround oneself with winners in the sport field. Don't see too many who had success in the respective playing fields winning championships, in the lower ends of management, or either the upper positions of managemetn/ownership.
They don't what it takes to win so how do they hire those people, or instill that culture in others.
I do know one thing, they can start of wit that damn mission statement on the MLSE web site. Nothing to do with winiing champioships, but onyl to do with entertaining.

billyfly
03-24-2012, 04:07 PM
Horrible game. Hardly a positive thing to say.

boban
03-24-2012, 04:09 PM
Just thinking out aloud, but why did we get rid of Marosevic?
He seemed to give some spark when we needed it last year.
Was it a money issue?

ManUtd4ever
03-24-2012, 04:10 PM
People need to calm down.

The score wasn't reflective of the play. We beat Chicago 4-1 a couple of years ago in a pretty even game in similar conditions (remember LaBrocca's wild free kick from 40 meters that the wind carried into the net?)

Weather was a huge factor. If you weren't there, it was deceptively frigid - the lakeshore gusts just ripped through your body. And of course the wind played havoc with the ball.

SJ look like a very good team to me. Very organized at the back. Bernandez was fantastic - broke up several dangerous moves all by himself.

My one complaint - why do we get Aceval /Caicedo, instead of Victor Bernandez? Why can't we ever be the team to find/sign these guys?

My enthusiasm over getting into CCL semis is not offset by the weak MLS season start. Need to forget this game by tomorrow morning. Time to focus on the rare prize that is in front of us, however high the odds.

This.

I was as dejected and disappointed as anyone when I left the park today, but all will be forgotten if the team can rebound against Santos Laguna and Columbus next week.


I still believe that this team is talented enough to be competitive and successful this season, despite the significant injuries to Frings and Frei.

InDa_110
03-24-2012, 04:19 PM
I was in 2nd row behind tfc bench today. winter sits on his ass the whole game and does nothing. No coaching, no yelling, no encouraging, doesn't even tell players where to be. WTF is that?

kaos197O
03-24-2012, 04:25 PM
Just thinking out aloud, but why did we get rid of Marosevic?
He seemed to give some spark when we needed it last year.
Was it a money issue?
Yes he was paid over 100k

reggie
03-24-2012, 04:29 PM
de ja vu...all over again C D way too slow,the one thing they had to improve from last year,big fail.
any news on frei??

reggie
03-24-2012, 04:37 PM
Every week I ask why Ty Harden is still a member of TFC. No one can ever give me an answer.

i have no idea...there is got to be 10 or 15 better CDs in the csl...

Dv23
03-24-2012, 04:38 PM
At least my prediction of 3-0 was spot-on. Or did I leave early and miss a 4th?

Benficachop20
03-24-2012, 04:40 PM
i know this might sound harsh but i would get rid of maund, hes worse than harden. We already have a younger, faster, and slightly better defender (Doneil Henry).

Thank you. On top of that Henry > Harden. U want the defence to improve? start playing the best defenders u have available right now. Ecks - Henry - Aceval - Morgan

wesvahr
03-24-2012, 04:48 PM
Not the greatest game to start off the season at home. Noticed a few players that played ok others who looked completely lost.

Johnson played fairly well, lambe had a few good passes but no where near the speed that was advertised.

I thought when Koevermans came on he did a good job in holding the ball up and he made a great cross (not sure who couldn't get on the end of it, couldn't see from the south end)

Morgan looked awful today, was able to get forward and attempted close to 7-8 crosses and not a single one showed any quality to it. Looks like he just trashes at the ball before even looking up.

Hopefully the best is still to come.

Skinner
03-24-2012, 04:53 PM
I can't think of anything good to say. Normally when that's the case, I say nothing.

Today, I just can't help myself. My son and I had to battle the TTC to get to the game (subway down from Bloor to Union was not fun), spent good money on average food and drink, froze in our sec 110 seats, watched a completely disheartening football match and then got back on that god forsaken transit system. The only good thing I can say is, at the end of it all, we arrived home to the rest of my amazing family. The smart ones, the females.

The scary part is, I could have written this exact note in any one of the past five plus years. Just when I thought we were going to come out of this curse that we have managed pick up from the beginning of our existence...a day like this comes along with it's cold hard reality that nothing has changed.

I am disheartened.

That is all.

pawlukj
03-24-2012, 04:54 PM
I was there and thought the first goal by san jose might have been luck,
After the goal the boys held most of the possession and established some attack at points, However it just seems like they arent too sure where their teammates are on the field when they are right beside them, there were a few actions were I would have kept going instead of passing, passing instead of going etc.

In the second half we were lobbing balls upfield the whole time ,

defence was way too easy, sliced through us like butter..
the team has potential but they need to quickly tighten up their play and defense or this can be a tragic season

cmonyoureds
03-24-2012, 05:05 PM
We controlled the first half except for their goal. Sky is not falling. Once it went 2 - 0 seemed like the wind came out of our sails.

Speaking of wind, biggest cheers of the day were for flying ponchos up in 111. Not sure what that says for the atmosphere of the building going forward. And bloody hell, I think I have frostbite from holding beer. Is there anywhere in there to get a warm drink? Last time I was there and it was that miserable they called the game at halftime vs Vancouver.

bigbamboom
03-24-2012, 05:07 PM
What terrifies me beyond today's game is that Montreal Impact and Vancouver played well in there opening games(s)...and now we have a mirror on the wall to compare ourselves too. How sad would it be to finish behind two expansion teams.

deacon
03-24-2012, 05:15 PM
Remind me what we got from San Jose for Sam Cronin? Oh ,that's right some allocation $ so we could get Mista for 3 months. Check out MLS.com, guess Carl Robinson and Jim Brennan knew what they were talking about when they both said Sam was a future Captain candidate. Sure could use his talents now!

boban
03-24-2012, 05:23 PM
I was in 2nd row behind tfc bench today. winter sits on his ass the whole game and does nothing. No coaching, no yelling, no encouraging, doesn't even tell players where to be. WTF is that?

That's odd. Csz every time the cam panned over them as the camera was following the play, there was Winter standing bu the touchline.

glaze
03-24-2012, 05:30 PM
About the only positive thing today was that the bad weather held off until after the game. Hopefully the team will show up on Wednesday.

Whoop
03-24-2012, 05:34 PM
Only positive for me today was the play of Luis Silva.

ag futbol
03-24-2012, 05:39 PM
I will say this: I'm not sure how it came across in person, but on TV is was clear the team was very scattered, poorly positioned, and not working together properly.

At times it was so poor you could have compared it to timbits soccer with kids bunching up in a pack in the middle of the field.

TFC Cityboy
03-24-2012, 05:40 PM
Remind me what we got from San Jose for Sam Cronin? Oh ,that's right some allocation $ so we could get Mista for 3 months. Check out MLS.com, guess Carl Robinson and Jim Brennan knew what they were talking about when they both said Sam was a future Captain candidate. Sure could use his talents now!

spoit on. He's just the player we need.
Awful defensive display and toothless upfront. Wednesday could be embarassing

cmonyoureds
03-24-2012, 05:56 PM
spoit on. He's just the player we need.
Awful defensive display and toothless upfront. Wednesday could be embarassing

Wasn't Cronin the guy Winter was talking about at a town hall when he said "we look at players and think we could try and bring them in, then we realize they were already here and given away"?

bman27
03-24-2012, 06:14 PM
I don't think Aceval is as bad as he may have appeared today, I still think he will need a couple of games to get used to the style of the league, and the language barrier may be a concern for a bit. That being said I still don't think he is the answer by himself, We need to find a big strong mls proven center back, does not need to be flashy, but gets the job done. The sooner Winter does not have to start Harden, the better, I can't imagine that as much as they came out and said they would work things out internally, that after today Mariner isn't working the phones as we speak

jloome
03-24-2012, 06:25 PM
I'm not sure why there's so much optimism in this thread. I agree, the offensive movement and style is much improved and will win us some games. But we still face several real, tangible problems

1. Our central defence is simply under-skilled for the league. The only central defender I'm fairly sure should be able to compete for a first-team spot is Adrian Cann, and I'm not sure he's ideal by any stretch. Aceval's positioning is routinely terrible and he makes poor decisions; yes, I can tell this early that he's not good enough for MLS. My track record is decent on this crap, but feel free to call it premature if you think so. I'm just calling what I see and his read of the game is very poor. We need two starting centre backs, still.

2. Morgan and Eckersley are both good, but both are pushed very high in the 4-3-3 or 343 and that's where the space is being exploited. We don't seem to be adapting tactically.

3. Terry Dunfield's occasional decent passing vision doesn't make up for his general inability to read the game at MLS speed or to cover space. If they think he's of sufficient calibre to start, I'm worried that prior Euro experience is being used as too great a judgment factor by Winter and De Klerk, still. He wasn't good enough to cement a starting spot at Bury in the second division. Seriously. Crazy. Why we wouldn't start Junior Burgos over this guy astounds me. Burgos can read a game, like Silva. It's the skill Avila is lacking -- he has the technical ability of Burgos and Silva, but lacks the size and read.

4. I think there might be a rift between Koevermans and Winter. Before the game he comments that Winter "could" be a good coach if he can get the team performing. Then he's benched for a second-straight game. Then it's obvious from players' comments in the previews that Winter doesn't talk to them except on rare occasions. Add that to the fact that De Klerk runs practices and I worry that while technically sound as an attacking coach, he doesn't interact with players enough to properly motivate. That he's counting on the iron grip and respect for his resume, which only goes so far.

5. Plata appears to have been somewhat solved by MLS defenders, and has been completely ineffective this year. But he's still starting. It would make more sense to hold him for games against the technically proficient but smaller mexican players, so this seems a tactical error in roster selection.

6. If any of the rift stuff between Mariner and the front office is true, it might be because Mariner's track record so far ain't great. Caicedo, Aceval, Reggie Lambe, a loan deal with a club in Bermuda, which is tiny and has zero football infrastructure. It's been a bad offseason compared to him landing us Eckersley and Ryan Johnson last year.

I've been a defender of giving Winter more time and people not being reactionary and screaming for blood, and that's still the case. But if we haven't solved our defensive issues by the end of this season, it's time to start asking hard questions about whether it's winter and de klerk or mariner or all three that has to go.

T-boy
03-24-2012, 06:42 PM
There's quit a bit of complaining about the central defenders on this thread, but I'd say the 3 goals were more to do with terrible tactics than bad players. This high offside trap is just horrible, and its going to lose TFC a lot of games this season! San Jose had clearly already noticed how we have been prior to this game, and they sprang our awful offside trap so easily, it was like knife thru butter!

The first goal all the defenders rushed out to make the Jose players offside, leaving their player with a free header. I don't think this was bad defenders ability, they were ALL obviously following the instructions given to them by the coaches (De Klerk AND Winter). Then in the second half San Jose looked to break the offside over and over again. Even when Maund replaced Harden, it was just the same, the defensive tactics just weren't working!

The second goal was kind of unfortunate after Morgan slipped, leaving Aceval with 2 attackers bearing down on him. Then the third goal was again down to this horrible high offside line!

Winter and De Klerk HAVE to change this defensive structure and tactic. If this is what they have been working on all winter, then we are screwed this season! Today wasn't down to personel, it was down to management and tactics.

And lets not even talk about our attacking, which was just as bad today. Johnson should have stayed at home, he didn't have a good day at all :(

Shakes McQueen
03-24-2012, 06:47 PM
I've been a defender of giving Winter more time and people not being reactionary and screaming for blood, and that's still the case. But if we haven't solved our defensive issues by the end of this season, it's time to start asking hard questions about whether it's winter and de klerk or mariner or all three that has to go.

I think that's a reasonable position to take. Winter et al. own this team now - both it's strengths, and weaknesses.

- Scott

DoubleUp
03-24-2012, 07:21 PM
sorry to interject, but Nana is standing on his head right now for Canada.

Btw.

ag futbol
03-24-2012, 07:24 PM
And we score .. woot woot

ag futbol
03-24-2012, 07:39 PM
Highly ironic that both Henry and Attakora have been solid for Canada today against the United States, but we're making room for lesser players in our starting lineup

Ajax TFC
03-24-2012, 07:41 PM
The first goal all the defenders rushed out to make the Jose players offside, leaving their player with a free header. I don't think this was bad defenders ability, they were ALL obviously following the instructions given to them by the coaches (De Klerk AND Winter). Then in the second half San Jose looked to break the offside over and over again. Even when Maund replaced Harden, it was just the same, the defensive tactics just weren't working!
moving up after the ball has moved out of the box is standard practice. If you don't you're allowing the other team to keep their entire team right in front of your net. The problem on that goal wasn't that they stepped up, the problem was that Silva for some reason didn't get the memo, and decided not to move up with the rest of the team, and as a result played his own man onside. That wasn't a tactical issue, that was a personal brain fart by Silva

The second goal was kind of unfortunate after Morgan slipped, leaving Aceval with 2 attackers bearing down on him.
Morgan goes up the pitch WAY too much. He has to learn to pick five or six times per game to get up the pitch to get in a cross. He's not playing winger, he's playing fullback. That means his primary job is to defend, secondary job is to support the winger. With the amount he gets forward this was inevitable. Aceval had no chance there

Then the third goal was again down to this horrible high offside line!
the offside trap not working was part of it, but the other part of it was down to both Maund and Eckersley running straight to the goal line to play goalkeeper, rather than actually defending players. if one of them covers Wondo rather than running to the line, that goal doesn't happen. Also, you have to consider what lead up to the offside trap being beaten. Watch Silva's halfassed attempt to close down Cronin. The midfielders have to do a much better job of pressuring their men than that.

Winter and De Klerk HAVE to change this defensive structure and tactic. If this is what they have been working on all winter, then we are screwed this season! Today wasn't down to personel, it was down to management and tactics. No, I'd say it's down to personel as well. the CBs not being to stand in a line is a personal problem. The midfielders not reading the game, pressuring their men, and spotting runs out of the midfield by players that the defense isn't supposed to be marking (because they're dealing with the strikers) is a problem with them as much as the tactic. Morgan forgetting that he's a left back, not a left winger, is a personel problem.

gunnerken
03-24-2012, 07:55 PM
Fly over was very cool...it"s on YouTube under "2012 Toronto FC Home Opener" (sorry, don't know how to imbed video link)...that freaked me out how low it was...much like the level of our play...

denime
03-24-2012, 08:14 PM
moving up after the ball has moved out of the box is standard practice. If you don't you're allowing the other team to keep their entire team right in front of your net. The problem on that goal wasn't that they stepped up, the problem was that Silva for some reason didn't get the memo, and decided not to move up with the rest of the team, and as a result played his own man onside. That wasn't a tactical issue, that was a personal brain fart by Silva

Morgan goes up the pitch WAY too much. He has to learn to pick five or six times per game to get up the pitch to get in a cross. He's not playing winger, he's playing fullback. That means his primary job is to defend, secondary job is to support the winger. With the amount he gets forward this was inevitable. Aceval had no chance there

the offside trap not working was part of it, but the other part of it was down to both Maund and Eckersley running straight to the goal line to play goalkeeper, rather than actually defending players. if one of them covers Wondo rather than running to the line, that goal doesn't happen. Also, you have to consider what lead up to the offside trap being beaten. Watch Silva's halfassed attempt to close down Cronin. The midfielders have to do a much better job of pressuring their men than that.
No, I'd say it's down to personel as well. the CBs not being to stand in a line is a personal problem. The midfielders not reading the game, pressuring their men, and spotting runs out of the midfield by players that the defense isn't supposed to be marking (because they're dealing with the strikers) is a problem with them as much as the tactic. Morgan forgetting that he's a left back, not a left winger, is a personel problem.

After watching replay at home,I have to agree with all of the above.

DoubleUp
03-24-2012, 08:22 PM
Highly ironic that both Henry and Attakora have been solid for Canada today against the United States, but we're making room for lesser players in our starting lineup

Exactly.

Jeffro
03-24-2012, 08:33 PM
moving up after the ball has moved out of the box is standard practice. If you don't you're allowing the other team to keep their entire team right in front of your net. The problem on that goal wasn't that they stepped up, the problem was that Silva for some reason didn't get the memo, and decided not to move up with the rest of the team, and as a result played his own man onside. That wasn't a tactical issue, that was a personal brain fart by Silva

Morgan goes up the pitch WAY too much. He has to learn to pick five or six times per game to get up the pitch to get in a cross. He's not playing winger, he's playing fullback. That means his primary job is to defend, secondary job is to support the winger. With the amount he gets forward this was inevitable. Aceval had no chance there

the offside trap not working was part of it, but the other part of it was down to both Maund and Eckersley running straight to the goal line to play goalkeeper, rather than actually defending players. if one of them covers Wondo rather than running to the line, that goal doesn't happen. Also, you have to consider what lead up to the offside trap being beaten. Watch Silva's halfassed attempt to close down Cronin. The midfielders have to do a much better job of pressuring their men than that.
No, I'd say it's down to personel as well. the CBs not being to stand in a line is a personal problem. The midfielders not reading the game, pressuring their men, and spotting runs out of the midfield by players that the defense isn't supposed to be marking (because they're dealing with the strikers) is a problem with them as much as the tactic. Morgan forgetting that he's a left back, not a left winger, is a personel problem.

Good post. Easy to blame the backline, but not when our attacking players are allowing the other teams defenders time on the ball to find their mids with ease, who can then play telling balls behind our high line. The high line will only work if you defend from the front by pressuring their defenders into give aways and bad passes. This is a crucial element of a 4-3-3 and especially a 3-4-3.

Detroit_TFC
03-24-2012, 08:34 PM
Sorry to get all emo, but I'm glad I've read all your comments. It was just chaos in my mind after the game, and all the way home. I now have a better sense of what I saw (and didn't see) today.

moralis
03-24-2012, 08:37 PM
TFC needs to sign Canadian U-23 goalkeeper Michal Misiewicz from FC Edmonton. He's been outstanding. Good back up for Kosic. TFC should also go after Lucas Cavallini-from Missisauga. He also played awesome.

AL-MO
03-24-2012, 08:42 PM
Awful is the only word I can use to describe today.

The team on the field, the FO's 'flares' @ kickoff and the support in the stands was just plain awful.

Hopefully it will all get better as there is nowhere to go but up.

Jeffro
03-24-2012, 09:12 PM
My solution for not having the best backline is to commit more strongly to offense and possession. Winter seems to like to use the point forward in the 4-3-3, I feel this hinders our ability to have meaningful or extended possession in the attacking third. I thought today we could have gone right at San Jose with 2 attacking mids and 1 defensive mid. Somebody like Dunfield would be alright coming on around the 60 minute mark if you're winning. With the 2 DMs our midfield has been almost nonexistent in a couple of matches so far, that coupled with a shaky backline=3 goals against per game so far. I think our mids will get better as a unit, there has been a lot of rotation there. I'd like to see Winter try out a point back formation against Clownbus, or maybe even Santos, because if we try to defend against them they'll burn us bad.

Brutal result today, but I'm certainly not hitting the panic button yet. Tough one to swallow being our home opener, but lets be honest, the home opener was a bit anti-climactic this year after the CCL game and subsequent win in LA. Time to hit the reset button and get focused on having the game of our lives on Wednesday against Santos.

Roogsy
03-24-2012, 09:17 PM
Well...that sucked.

That is all.

jazzy
03-24-2012, 09:38 PM
Well...that sucked.


That is all.

Close the thread....nuff said

jabbronies
03-24-2012, 09:46 PM
4. I think there might be a rift between Koevermans and Winter. Before the game he comments that Winter "could" be a good coach if he can get the team performing. Then he's benched for a second-straight game. Then it's obvious from players' comments in the previews that Winter doesn't talk to them except on rare occasions. Add that to the fact that De Klerk runs practices and I worry that while technically sound as an attacking coach, he doesn't interact with players enough to properly motivate. That he's counting on the iron grip and respect for his resume, which only goes so far.



This is an interesting post item.

Right now the "highline defence" is killing us. Whomever implemented that is pretty attached to it.
Is it DeClerk's vision and Winter is giving it an extra long chance? or is it Winter vision that everyone HAS to follow.

Our midfield is pretty stacked. Our most talent is in midfield. Why not drop 5 midfielders back to help the D move the ball and then move 2 of them up to help the offence? (4-5-1 on the D and a 4-3-3 on the attack)?

Right now we are doing the opposite and it's killing us (4-4-3 on the D and 2-5-3 on the attack)?
We don't have the D skill to do this. This system is "Torstens system". Without him it doesn't work. But even with him we shouldn't play it because it doesn't use Frings to his full potential.

Greatest Ripoff
03-24-2012, 10:12 PM
After the pre season and the CCL, it was nice to see that Lambe could actually play some decent football. He did a good job in the second half getting past his defender.

Also Henry had a great game for Canada today. I would like to see him next to Aceval.

Jeffro
03-24-2012, 10:23 PM
This is an interesting post item.

Right now the "highline defence" is killing us. Whomever implemented that is pretty attached to it.
Is it DeClerk's vision and Winter is giving it an extra long chance? or is it Winter vision that everyone HAS to follow.

Our midfield is pretty stacked. Our most talent is in midfield. Why not drop 5 midfielders back to help the D move the ball and then move 2 of them up to help the offence? (4-5-1 on the D and a 4-3-3 on the attack)?

Right now we are doing the opposite and it's killing us (4-4-3 on the D and 2-5-3 on the attack)?
We don't have the D skill to do this. This system is "Torstens system". Without him it doesn't work. But even with him we shouldn't play it because it doesn't use Frings to his full potential.


That's it there, De Guzman and Dunfield are coming back to distrubute, but they are not succeeding. Our mids get pulled apart creating a gap between our defence and attack and our defence is getting burned by it. It sounds cliche, but we need to be more compact and move up and down the pitch as a unit.

ensco
03-24-2012, 10:27 PM
I'm not sure why there's so much optimism in this thread.

Because we weren't hat bad, and we beat the MLS champions on their home field ten days ago, where they were undefeated in their last 25 games?

DangerRed
03-24-2012, 10:34 PM
Because we weren't hat bad, and we beat the MLS champions on their home field ten days ago, where they were undefeated in their last 25 games?

We beat them in a non-league game, even though they had lost one just days before, and with both our DPs functioning (not counting JDG). Now, with just one of them out, the club gets blown out by what was hardly a good team last year, and by a 3-0 margin, at home.

In the first two games of league play, we've already got a -5 goal record. That's fucked up. If that's not ringing alarm bells in your head about the state of our back line, then I don't know what will.

jabbronies
03-24-2012, 10:35 PM
That's it there, De Guzman and Dunfield are coming back to distrubute, but they are not succeeding. Our mids get pulled apart creating a gap between our defence and attack and our defence is getting burned by it. It sounds cliche, but we need to be more compact and move up and down the pitch as a unit.

Eckersley/Morgan are are good, but not forward attacking good. Have them move the ball to the midfielders and let the mids dish to the attackers. I feel sometimes we overdo the defence to attack movement.

DoubleUp
03-24-2012, 10:39 PM
We beat them in a non-league game, even though they had lost one just days before, and with both our DPs functioning (not counting JDG). Now, with just one of them out, the club gets blown out by what was hardly a good team last year, and by a 3-0 margin, at home.

In the first two games of league play, we've already got a -5 goal record. That's fucked up. If that's not ringing alarm bells in your head about the state of our back line, then I don't know what will.
:dupe:

Roogsy
03-24-2012, 10:39 PM
I don't get the Dunfield hate while JDG skates. Which one is a DP again?

ensco
03-24-2012, 10:42 PM
We beat them in a non-league game, even though they had lost one just days before, and with both our DPs functioning (not counting JDG). Now, with just one of them out, the club gets blown out by what was hardly a good team last year, and by a 3-0 margin, at home.

In the first two games of league play, we've already got a -5 goal record. That's fucked up. If that's not ringing alarm bells in your head about the state of our back line, then I don't know what will.

SJ look like a playoff team to me. But yeah, we sucked.

So what.

Beating LA in the CCL was big. TFC deserve some slack for that..

If it's May 15 and we're 3-8 or whatever, and have been blasted by Santos Laguina, trust me, I'm going Braveheart (although it sounds like I'll be far behind the mob, for once).

Beat Santos Laguna, baby.

ArmenJBX
03-24-2012, 10:50 PM
Exactly, thank you Roogsy.
Dunfield is doing his job as well as he could be expected to do it. I have low expectations for Dunfield and he meets those expectations and sometimes exceeds them.

Julian de Guzman flails his limbs around and gives the appearance of being a footballer.

jabbronies
03-24-2012, 11:15 PM
I don't get the Dunfield hate while JDG skates. Which one is a DP again?



Exactly, thank you Roogsy.
Dunfield is doing his job as well as he could be expected to do it. I have low expectations for Dunfield and he meets those expectations and sometimes exceeds them.

Julian de Guzman flails his limbs around and gives the appearance of being a footballer.

I approve these post!

and so can you, use the user rating thing we installed.

iy12l
03-24-2012, 11:58 PM
Wow Doneil scored today and played pretty good at D. Why is harden in our line-up again? We need to play Doneil next game OR Emory! i swear to god im going to rage is he doesnt put this defence line-up:

Ecks-Doneil/Emory-Aceval-Morgan

if winter doesnt do anything this season we should just fire him and sign another dutch coach who actually teaches his team off-the-ball movement and passing

Ossington Mental Youth
03-25-2012, 12:00 AM
Well...that sucked.

That is all. pretty much.

We played OK from 8th min to 50th min then lost the plot. Thought outside of a few failed runs on dudes that Lambe had a great game

Cashcleaner
03-25-2012, 12:16 AM
Exactly, thank you Roogsy.
Dunfield is doing his job as well as he could be expected to do it. I have low expectations for Dunfield and he meets those expectations and sometimes exceeds them.

Julian de Guzman flails his limbs around and gives the appearance of being a footballer.

I don't want to say I have low expectations for Dunfield, but I agree he's not stellar by any stretch. However, he's not the one costing the club about 2 million a year.

De Guzman, on the other hand, is.

Inklink
03-25-2012, 01:16 AM
6 fucking years and they can't figure out the defense yet. LOL

Oldtimer
03-25-2012, 07:08 AM
if winter doesnt do anything this season we should just fire him and sign another dutch coach who actually teaches his team off-the-ball movement and passing

I don't think Winter should get beyond the middle of the season if we don't see some improvement. When your team plays an identifiable system, every piece is replaceable, from each player on the pitch, to the coach, to the water boy.

Beach_Red
03-25-2012, 08:07 AM
pretty much.

We played OK from 8th min to 50th min then lost the plot. Thought outside of a few failed runs on dudes that Lambe had a great game

It would have made such a huge difference if we'd scored a goal in that stretch. We're complaining a lot about the defence, but this is looking like the same offence from previous years, too.

Kooper
03-25-2012, 08:10 AM
6 fucking years and they can't figure out the defense yet. LOL

The other tihng to remember is that we have almost 180K in Dicoy Williams and Adrian Cann still out injured. Harden is a back up and should be 4th or 5th on the depth chart. When these two guys are back we should be in better shape.

RealG-TFC
03-25-2012, 08:37 AM
The other tihng to remember is that we have almost 180K in Dicoy Williams and Adrian Cann still out injured. Harden is a back up and should be 4th or 5th on the depth chart. When these two guys are back we should be in better shape.

This is the breaking point imo. If these guys fail then we're doomed.

Kooper
03-25-2012, 09:38 AM
This is the breaking point imo. If these guys fail then we're doomed.

Agreed. But then again it is only 180K. They are tradeable unlike JDG who at this point can't be traded because of his salary.

I do think that it is better to keep the average players rather than trade the average players for other average players who will take time to settle.

T-boy
03-25-2012, 09:57 AM
moving up after the ball has moved out of the box is standard practice. If you don't you're allowing the other team to keep their entire team right in front of your net. The problem on that goal wasn't that they stepped up, the problem was that Silva for some reason didn't get the memo, and decided not to move up with the rest of the team, and as a result played his own man onside. That wasn't a tactical issue, that was a personal brain fart by Silva

Morgan goes up the pitch WAY too much. He has to learn to pick five or six times per game to get up the pitch to get in a cross. He's not playing winger, he's playing fullback. That means his primary job is to defend, secondary job is to support the winger. With the amount he gets forward this was inevitable. Aceval had no chance there

the offside trap not working was part of it, but the other part of it was down to both Maund and Eckersley running straight to the goal line to play goalkeeper, rather than actually defending players. if one of them covers Wondo rather than running to the line, that goal doesn't happen. Also, you have to consider what lead up to the offside trap being beaten. Watch Silva's halfassed attempt to close down Cronin. The midfielders have to do a much better job of pressuring their men than that.
No, I'd say it's down to personel as well. the CBs not being to stand in a line is a personal problem. The midfielders not reading the game, pressuring their men, and spotting runs out of the midfield by players that the defense isn't supposed to be marking (because they're dealing with the strikers) is a problem with them as much as the tactic. Morgan forgetting that he's a left back, not a left winger, is a personel problem.

Although I somewhat agree - I also think that if the TFC management have had ALL offseason to coach the players into playing this high offside line, and they STILL aren't understanding it and making massive errors, this isn't down to the personel, this is down to the tactic and the training of it. In any team, the players are only as good as the management, and since Winter et al have been at TFC, they have been a defensive shambles.

We need to stop making excuses and blaming the players - no matter WHO has played in defensive the last season, they have ALL sucked. This has to be down to management and tactics, NOT the players!

I hate that Winter comes out after the game and says "we made mistakes". Sorry Aron, but here, YOU have made the errors in deciding to use a tactic that glaringly isn't working!

We've been lucky so far that this high offside line hasn't cost us more - if LA had a bit more luck at Rogers Centre, they would have scored 3 or 4 just from busting the offside trap! If we continue to use this tactic, we are going to get burned over and over again. And if we use this against a speedy Laguna attack on Wednesday, it could be a rugby scoreline!

T-boy
03-25-2012, 10:01 AM
Eckersley/Morgan are are good, but not forward attacking good. Have them move the ball to the midfielders and let the mids dish to the attackers. I feel sometimes we overdo the defence to attack movement.

Agreed, but they have obviously been TOLD to push up down the flanks and overlap with Plata and Lambe. Ecks and Morgan were clearly following instructions yesterday, so I don't blame them for being out of position.

The second goal where Morton slipped, he was clearly pushing up as instructed. It wasn't that Morgan was pushing "too much", but that he was pushing up appropriately to what Winter has told him to!

There are too many people on here that blame the players for what we should obviously be blaming the management/tactics for!

maninb
03-25-2012, 10:08 AM
IMO This was a MUST win game....Yet we get DESTROYED by a team taht many picked to finish LAST in the wEST.....Same old song.....DAMN...because I had such high hopes...

tfcfan2011
03-25-2012, 10:22 AM
Agreed, but they have obviously been TOLD to push up down the flanks and overlap with Plata and Lambe. Ecks and Morgan were clearly following instructions yesterday, so I don't blame them for being out of position.

The second goal where Morton slipped, he was clearly pushing up as instructed. It wasn't that Morgan was pushing "too much", but that he was pushing up appropriately to what Winter has told him to!

There are too many people on here that blame the players for what we should obviously be blaming the management/tactics for!

Do we actually know what Winter has told him, or is it speculation at this point? To be fair I think a few things are at play here...

1. Morgan is taking too many runs up the wing - so many that the opposition know to expect it and adjust in advance.
2. There's no adjustment by TFC for this, and it allows the opposition to exploit the space on a counter attack.
3. Yesterday he seemed to be the only one playing crosses in with any sort of quality so it was logical to use him often.

For me, I think the biggest problem yesterday was #2. There were a few times that Morgan made a great run up the left, but the massive gap left behind him was uncovered leaving the remaining 3 defenders to scramble on the counter attack. They seemed to be playing Sunday rec-league run and gun style, sprint up the field play the ball in, and try to score in the run of that play. No patience, no pressure build, just whip it in and go for a shot which either went out for a goal kick, or was intercepted and started a counter attack...

However all that being said I wouldnt doubt that he's been told to take that space whenever he sees it...

cochrdoc
03-25-2012, 10:24 AM
I am starting to think Dutch soccer is let the other team score alot of goals and try and match them because it is attractive.We can not keep pushing our outsde backs so high and hope they get back to defend.Can Winter not see that the defence is getting shredded.Even against LA we were exposed ,but got good goaltending.Our defence is poor our mid is below average and so far the only punch up front has been Johnson.2 of our DP`s haven`t realized the season has started and the other is gone for 6 weeks.I get a kick out when I read that Deguzmen will be back.What has he done .He has little impact in this league except collect a big paycheck.I don`t understand how other teams can turn it around and we continue to give up a ton of goals and struggle to compete alot of times.Alot of our players seem to be put on a pedalstool on how good they are and they are below average . I think Winter is on the right idea of how important the Academy should be but we still need to bring in some quality players to improve the roster.

Roogsy
03-25-2012, 10:28 AM
I disagree it was a must-win game but it certainly is a game that can influence the final season results. What this forces is must-wins later in the season possibly against superior teams.

T-boy
03-25-2012, 10:43 AM
Do we actually know what Winter has told him, or is it speculation at this point? To be fair I think a few things are at play here...

1. Morgan is taking too many runs up the wing - so many that the opposition know to expect it and adjust in advance.
2. There's no adjustment by TFC for this, and it allows the opposition to exploit the space on a counter attack.
3. Yesterday he seemed to be the only one playing crosses in with any sort of quality so it was logical to use him often.

For me, I think the biggest problem yesterday was #2. There were a few times that Morgan made a great run up the left, but the massive gap left behind him was uncovered leaving the remaining 3 defenders to scramble on the counter attack. They seemed to be playing Sunday rec-league run and gun style, sprint up the field play the ball in, and try to score in the run of that play. No patience, no pressure build, just whip it in and go for a shot which either went out for a goal kick, or was intercepted and started a counter attack...

However all that being said I wouldnt doubt that he's been told to take that space whenever he sees it...

Agreed it was number 2 yesterday. Plata/Lambe MUST cover the full back if the full back overlaps to make an attacking run.

The issue yesterday was that Johnson, Plata and Lambe kept interchanging positions, which meant that the communication and defensive covering must be top rate to be done effectively. Often yesterday Morgan would make a good run into a good position, then there was nobody covering him at all as the 3 attackers were all over the place.

I just don't understand how they've had all winter to work on this stuff, and it is still not working. I would be ok with it all if San Jose outplayed us yesterday, but it was just BAD organisiation on TFC's part that lost them the game. TFC pretty much beat themselves yesterday! That's very frustrating.

ag futbol
03-25-2012, 10:45 AM
There's nothing wrong with pushing your backs up the field in this system, but it only works when your mids drop back to cover the space and shield the backline. As far as I can tell, De Guzman and Dunfield couldn't stop a paper bag blowing in the wind from getting past them. Both are terrible, De Guzman deserves extra crap for being paid so much and Dunfield should never start on a competitive club. Shameful

Oblio2
03-25-2012, 10:52 AM
De Guz is horse shit. Always heas been while here and won't improve....anyone that sticks up for him cannot see what a pile of shit he is. If we got offered a fucking Mars bar for this poor excuse for a footballer, take it. Waste of goddamn salary.....Id rather have 10 men and play down a man than have that "shit show" play the middle.....

Pigfynn
03-25-2012, 11:10 AM
De Guz is horse shit. Always heas been while here and won't improve....anyone that sticks up for him cannot see what a pile of shit he is. If we got offered a fucking Mars bar for this poor excuse for a footballer, take it. Waste of goddamn salary.....Id rather have 10 men and play down a man than have that "shit show" play the middle.....

How do you really feel though? g:D

T-boy
03-25-2012, 11:37 AM
There's nothing wrong with pushing your backs up the field in this system, but it only works when your mids drop back to cover the space and shield the backline. As far as I can tell, De Guzman and Dunfield couldn't stop a paper bag blowing in the wind from getting past them. Both are terrible, De Guzman deserves extra crap for being paid so much and Dunfield should never start on a competitive club. Shameful

I'm definitely starting to worry about Dunfield. I think he's one that does try hard enough, but his lack of quality really shows sometimes. And his corners were utterly terrible yesterday! It kind of proved yesterday, that Winter and Co had set up ONE team for the season, with Frings taking the corners, and now that he's injured, they have no fall back plan.

Ajax TFC
03-25-2012, 12:18 PM
pushing the fullbacks up the field isn't the problem. the problem is when they don't recognize when it's safe to do so and when it's not. I think Morgan should watch Eckersley more. He pushes up enough, but manages to not get caught out of position because he chooses his runs properly. Also when a fullback or center back does move up, one of the defensive mids has to move back into the back line and either directly fill in for the CB or move to CB to allow the CB to fill in for the fullback. On SJ's second goal JDG wasn't moving to LCB which meant that Aceval couldn't move to left back to cover the winger

jabbronies
03-25-2012, 12:37 PM
Agreed, but they have obviously been TOLD to push up down the flanks and overlap with Plata and Lambe. Ecks and Morgan were clearly following instructions yesterday, so I don't blame them for being out of position.

The second goal where Morton slipped, he was clearly pushing up as instructed. It wasn't that Morgan was pushing "too much", but that he was pushing up appropriately to what Winter has told him to!

There are too many people on here that blame the players for what we should obviously be blaming the management/tactics for!

I agree. he and ecks were told to push and I think he is being pushed too much.
Just looking at the overall shape of the team you can see that this is the plan.

Huyton
03-25-2012, 12:39 PM
Ty Harden should be renamed Try Harder.

jabbronies
03-25-2012, 12:41 PM
pushing the fullbacks up the field isn't the problem. the problem is when they don't recognize when it's safe to do so and when it's not. I think Morgan should watch Eckersley more. He pushes up enough, but manages to not get caught out of position because he chooses his runs properly. Also when a fullback or center back does move up, one of the defensive mids has to move back into the back line and either directly fill in for the CB or move to CB to allow the CB to fill in for the fullback. On SJ's second goal JDG wasn't moving to LCB which meant that Aceval couldn't move to left back to cover the winger

With our team it is the problem and it's because of what I bolded in your sentence. Not only is our D young and inexperienced but they don't have a general to tell them what to do. Our Mids are far more experienced and the depth should be used more often. Total football is good when your team is qualified to play that. Without someone (Frings or whomever) to general that back line, total football is going to look more like a bunch of school kids running around a pitch aimlessly.

iy12l
03-25-2012, 12:46 PM
cant wait till JDG is gona this summer, we need to get a DP that actually helps his team. Koev is lazy as hell, he just stands there.. soon defences will know how outsmart him

AmherstNY_TFC
03-25-2012, 12:52 PM
As I left the stadium yesterday, and now as I read this thread, three thoughts:

"The more things change; the more things stay the same."
"Same shit; different day."
"Meet the new boss/Same as the old boss"

whyalwaysme11
03-25-2012, 12:52 PM
i would take Nick La Brocca for Julian de Guzman and Dunfield any day
Eckersley is amazing
I watched the montreal game when i got home from tfc before the canada game did anyone see Ferrari? now thats a defender
Does not give the ball up does not make stupid passes and he actually runs... very organized.

jazzy
03-25-2012, 01:19 PM
The other tihng to remember is that we have almost 180K in Dicoy Williams and Adrian Cann still out injured. Harden is a back up and should be 4th or 5th on the depth chart. When these two guys are back we should be in better shape.

isn't Decoy playing for the Jamaican under 23's?

Ajax TFC
03-25-2012, 01:25 PM
isn't Decoy playing for the Jamaican under 23's?
well since he's 25, I'm going to say that that's unlikely

Code Red
03-25-2012, 01:26 PM
A piss poor performance yesterday. All the players need to take a good, long look in the mirror and get their act together before the season starts to become a write-off.

Overall Team Rating (based on yesterday's performance):

:picard: :picard: :picard: :picard: / 5

More face palms = lower rating

Team needs to regroup quickly. Wed is coming fast and furious.

jazzy
03-25-2012, 01:30 PM
pushing the fullbacks up the field isn't the problem. the problem is when they don't recognize when it's safe to do so and when it's not. I think Morgan should watch Eckersley more. He pushes up enough, but manages to not get caught out of position because he chooses his runs properly. Also when a fullback or center back does move up, one of the defensive mids has to move back into the back line and either directly fill in for the CB or move to CB to allow the CB to fill in for the fullback. On SJ's second goal JDG wasn't moving to LCB which meant that Aceval couldn't move to left back to cover the winger


call me crazy,....maybe deluded,... but from what I saw of Eckersley he was out of position as much as Morgan and reckless as usual,....that is now being used against him, by incoming teams. What with all the criticism of Morga,n he IS the only player consistently making runs on the wings and always succeeding , then continuously getting the ball crossed into the forwards....he does need to get a little more 'air' on the ball, but last year no one could even cross on this team,...if he is making these runs and leaving the defense suspect,..he is only there because he does have the ability toget back catch just about anyone...and he takes shit from no one....compared with the cream puffs showing up on our team we are now going to critique desire to win?? No one attacked the SJ players when they were getting their goals off.....and that reminds me was JDG in the line-up,.didn't see or hear his name ,.......:rolleyes: we need big strong stay at home defenders,....Morgan should be on the wing.........anyone can see he has the forward attack etched in him...bring back Stinson and Henry and as stsated all of last year play them!!!!

spe18
03-25-2012, 02:46 PM
De Guz is horse shit. Always heas been while here and won't improve....anyone that sticks up for him cannot see what a pile of shit he is. If we got offered a fucking Mars bar for this poor excuse for a footballer, take it. Waste of goddamn salary.....Id rather have 10 men and play down a man than have that "shit show" play the middle.....

Of course, as we all know, we can blame one Mr. Johnston for that one :)

whyalwaysme11
03-25-2012, 03:04 PM
baaahhhaha my dad just compared inters back line to tfcs after juve just scored

jazzy
03-25-2012, 03:14 PM
well since he's 25, I'm going to say that that's unlikely
I say that because he's interviewed concacaf under 23 tv game site ,...build-up,...I took it that they would be continuous in their game flow...fool me

Blizzard
03-25-2012, 03:35 PM
And what makes you think he didn't try and look into it. Maybe a player or two he identified for our D didn't want to make the trip here, or we are waiting for the summer transfer window. You don't know, so don't pass judgement on some thing you have knowledge of.

.... and let's not forget that Paul Marriner is part of the management picture as well. Yes, he brought in Eckersley although, sadly, I can't say I've been impressed with Ecks thus far this year apart from starting the Johnson goal v Seattle by coming all the way from RB to LB to get the ball and send it up field while crashing into the sign hordings in Seattle. One will never be able to fault Ecks for lack of effort.

Who else though? Lambe is about it and the jury is certainly out on him.

Blizzard
03-25-2012, 04:04 PM
cant wait till JDG is gona this summer, we need to get a DP that actually helps his team. Koev is lazy as hell, he just stands there.. soon defences will know how outsmart him

JDG's contract runs through the end of the season.

Blizzard
03-25-2012, 04:07 PM
isn't Decoy playing for the Jamaican under 23's?

Absolutely not.

Alonso
03-25-2012, 04:16 PM
I'm definitely starting to worry about Dunfield. I think he's one that does try hard enough, but his lack of quality really shows sometimes. And his corners were utterly terrible yesterday! It kind of proved yesterday, that Winter and Co had set up ONE team for the season, with Frings taking the corners, and now that he's injured, they have no fall back plan.

Plata should be taking our set pieces now, he's no use out there trying to get on the end of them anyway, and he's pretty good at set pieces regardless.

T-boy
03-26-2012, 09:03 AM
Plata should be taking our set pieces now, he's no use out there trying to get on the end of them anyway, and he's pretty good at set pieces regardless.

Totally agreed. Why we are taking a 5 ft 11 player out of the penalty area and having a 5 ft 1 player instead is beyond me! Plata is the obvious choice for the corner taker, its not like he'e going to rise above a 6ft plus defender to score a smashing header!