PDA

View Full Version : Frings update



__wowza
03-20-2012, 08:29 AM
http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2012/03/torsten-frings-injury-update

4-6 weeks. we need to start searching for answers to the backline, maybe a tactical swap, maybe someone stepping up. anyone wanna start discussing who can fill the void?

cincy
03-20-2012, 08:31 AM
Ouch ... Should have let him score

ouderwien
03-20-2012, 08:31 AM
Beat me to it...but this is frightening. Especially for the Santos games.

ouderwien
03-20-2012, 08:34 AM
Also Cann better be ready now, we need him.

Red Rat
03-20-2012, 08:38 AM
shites!

ryan
03-20-2012, 08:40 AM
*gulp*

brad
03-20-2012, 08:41 AM
Better than I expected to be honest. My first instinct watching that we knee & season ending injury.

Cann is not ready, and won't be for a while. I think we are going to be looking at a back line of Ekcs - Harden - Aceval - Emory/Morgan

T-boy
03-20-2012, 08:42 AM
Well, my predition for the season was "we can make the playoffs, or be close, as LONG as key players (Frings and Koevs) stay fit for the majority of the season".

This isn't a good start :(

We have players who could partly step in, but nobody else in the whole squad has the experience and calm level head that Frings had. We are going to miss him terribly until he returns.

JDG is the player who really needs to step up the the plate right now. If he can play like it did towards the end of last season, we might be ok over the next few weeks.

Fort York Redcoat
03-20-2012, 08:42 AM
If drastic measures are not taken by Wed I'll be disappointed.

Canary10
03-20-2012, 08:42 AM
Looks like our defence will have to learn to walk without a crutch....

T-boy
03-20-2012, 08:44 AM
If drastic measures are not taken by Wed I'll be disappointed.

But what drastic action could they even make right now?!

Ben - D.O.W.
03-20-2012, 08:44 AM
So that means what, JDG takes over in midfield and Maund covers in back (assuming Cann still isn't back)? I don't like how that sounds at all, although if JDG starts playing like the end of last year maybe it won't be as bad. Also - please TFC no more Dunfield as captain.

loconet
03-20-2012, 08:49 AM
Yup, not surprised after the way he walked out and the pull gesture he made to the physio. Better this happens now than in a critical time of the league schedule. Not having him for the CCL semis sucks though.

__wowza
03-20-2012, 08:51 AM
agree with the whole JDG thing. his contract is up this year and either he steps up now or starts looking into retirement. he'll be 31 this season and no one in their right mind would pick him up on a DP contract especially with the form he's shown over the past few seasons. there's no doubt about it, he has the experience, but he has to start leading by example. with the number of cards he picked up last season, he can't fill in for frings in a defensive role, we'd be giving up penalties every second, but he can fill in to organize and provide leadership.

Jack
03-20-2012, 08:55 AM
Did anyone else just feel their butthole pucker a little bit?

Phil
03-20-2012, 08:56 AM
Well the logical guys to look to are JDG and Dunfield. As well I think we will need to tactically modify our lineup / formation.

Canary10
03-20-2012, 08:57 AM
Our biggest problem is we're still not playing the possession game Winter has promised. He should be taking a really really close look at what Swansea does. Their entire defence is predicated on keeping the ball. They have no stars at the back (other than maybe Vorm), but they never give up the ball. That's the key to our defence if Winter is serious about what he's been saying all this time.

reggie
03-20-2012, 08:59 AM
so who is going to cover harden's ass now.

Whoop
03-20-2012, 09:02 AM
With points at a premium this year, and while it's early, this could have serious, serious, playoff implications.

mastermixer
03-20-2012, 09:03 AM
I'm not saying we should have a superstar CB in the back line, but how about a starting calibre CB? Frings should not have been playing the last man on the defensive line in the first place.
I think they need to trade one of the keepers for an MLS CB immediately.

Phil
03-20-2012, 09:04 AM
I'm not saying we should have a superstar CB in the back line, but how about a starting calibre CB? Frings should not have been playing the last man on the defensive line in the first place.
I think they need to trade one of the keepers for an MLS CB immediately.

The real question is who has depth there and can make a deal?

I think back to Ero and shudder a bit given what we gave up. Given that was inter division too - I know other clubs don't like making that deal and neither should we.

rudiker
03-20-2012, 09:06 AM
JDG is surely going to have to step up his game...I'm praying Dunfield isn't Winter's "go to guy"

brad
03-20-2012, 09:09 AM
The real question is who has depth there and can make a deal?


More to the point - who has CB depth and needs a keeper?

Shway
03-20-2012, 09:12 AM
More to the point - who has CB depth and needs a keeper?

No one, literally

EDIT:
Well the NY Redbulls,
Columbus maybe cause hesmer has been injury prone of lately,
philadelphia can lose hope in Macmath possible trade would be danny califf for frei, but the salary cap,

Phil
03-20-2012, 09:12 AM
More to the point - who has CB depth and needs a keeper?

ya, that is my point. Tall order in any league, especially the MLS which seems to be Keeper strong and CB short on the talet scale.

reggie
03-20-2012, 09:17 AM
More to the point - who has CB depth and needs a keeper?

i think phily can use a keeper..

rudiker
03-20-2012, 09:18 AM
No one, literally

EDIT:
Well the NY Redbulls,
Columbus maybe cause hesmer has been injury prone of lately,
philadelphia can lose hope in Macmath possible trade would be danny califf for frei, but the salary cap,


Ideally for me, Red Bulls and Conde...but that would never happen.

Red Rat
03-20-2012, 09:20 AM
I would take Rafa Marquez in a hear beat but, that is just impossible to have

reggie
03-20-2012, 09:25 AM
i think it will be a dangerous game getting rid of a keeper,without a half decent third keeper in the fold.

prizby
03-20-2012, 09:30 AM
gotta bring henry and stinson back...sorry canada

Shway
03-20-2012, 09:32 AM
Ideally for me, Red Bulls and Conde...but that would never happen.


I thought about that, but Conde is injured just like Cann, probably only a little bit better if that, and would retain a higher salary.
So in the need for something to come in right away, wouldnt work with Conde, IMO

drewski
03-20-2012, 09:35 AM
shit balls

Redcoe15
03-20-2012, 09:35 AM
ysFhNCeLDjQ

Canary10
03-20-2012, 09:42 AM
If there was an available CB in the league who could fill the role we probably would have done it in the offseason. The reality is, besides John, Gonzalez, Olave and Cameron there aren't many good ones out there. Look what happened when LA lost Gonzalez. Their defence went from outstanding to average in heart beat.

Derko
03-20-2012, 09:50 AM
gotta bring henry and stinson back...sorry canada

Now that I agree with, not a life boat but at least a pair of life vests!!

Oldtimer
03-20-2012, 09:54 AM
Time to face it, Santos Laguna will knock TFC out. It was a nice run, too bad.

Turf 1, Frings 0.

mastermixer
03-20-2012, 09:55 AM
If there was an available CB in the league who could fill the role we probably would have done it in the offseason. The reality is, besides John, Gonzalez, Olave and Cameron there aren't many good ones out there. Look what happened when LA lost Gonzalez. Their defence went from outstanding to average in heart beat.

Ours is going from bad to worse.
But who knows? Maybe Emory and Maunde start clicking and we can get through the next few weeks.

Whoop
03-20-2012, 09:57 AM
Santos was always going to go through. Now the question is if TFC can at least keep it respectable.

And as much as I hate turf, in this case it wasn't the turf, it was just an awkward tackle by Frings that caused the pull.

Red Rat
03-20-2012, 10:00 AM
will it permissible to say
Nana Attakora!

zamperina
03-20-2012, 10:06 AM
If we could somehow make a trade with the Crew for Marshall but I doubt it as they would want alot...Something like Frei and Silva...cringe!

Chad Marshall
14
Defender



http://www.thecrew.com/sites/columbus/files/imagecache/player_profile_headshot/players/head-shots/marshall.jpg



Current Club: Columbus Crew
Height: 6' 4"
Weight: 190 lbs.
Birth Date: 08-22-1984
Birthplace: Riverside, CA

ensco
03-20-2012, 10:10 AM
If we could somehow make a trade with the Crew for Marshall but I doubt it as they would want alot...Something like Frei and Silva...cringe!

That trade would be terrible.

You've got the wrong Marshall.

Give Colorado a third rounder or similar for Tyrone (he's on the bench there).

ManUtd4ever
03-20-2012, 10:12 AM
Well, it's time for JDG to step up and earn his salary. The club will need him to play at his highest level more than ever over the next 4-6 weeks to help compensate for the absence of Frings.

joeyjones
03-20-2012, 10:14 AM
The real question is who has depth there and can make a deal?

how about Frei for Danny Califf? he's 32 and a red card waiting to happen but he's got to be better than Harden as a starting CB...

Stouffville_RPB
03-20-2012, 10:23 AM
4-6 weeks sucks but it could've been much worse. There isn't anyone who can replace Frings, not by a long shot, but if everyone can bring there games up another level in his absence we can stay competitive.

Lucky Strike
03-20-2012, 10:43 AM
how about Frei for Danny Califf? he's 32 and a red card waiting to happen but he's got to be better than Harden as a starting CB...

I'm not completely knowledgeable with Danny Califf but I remember him being a good defender when TFC faced him. That and a trade would have a certain logic to it, Philadelphia needs a keeper and we need a defender. Also if I recall, both he and Frei are on comparable wages.

boozilla
03-20-2012, 10:55 AM
Glass half full view.
They are now forced to shore up the back.
If it works, Frings could come back into the midfield where he belongs.

Greatest Ripoff
03-20-2012, 11:11 AM
Wasn't Emory signed as CB? I'd like to see him get a start next to Aceval on Saturday.

SirBobSaget
03-20-2012, 11:11 AM
how about Frei for Danny Califf? he's 32 and a red card waiting to happen but he's got to be better than Harden as a starting CB...

There's controversy brewing in Philly between Nowak - Califf. Apparently Califf was benched last game, Nowak claimed that it was because of injury but Califf claims his knee is fine and he was expecting to play.

This might be a possibility. Although, not sure Nowak is ready yet to abandon his trial by fire plan for MacMath. Maybe a midfielder + young CB package would be more attractive to Philly

Canary10
03-20-2012, 11:18 AM
Unless it's for an absolutely top tier CB (which I don't think is possible), a trade doesn't make sense to me. It'll be a wast of an asset for us, and what we get back will inevitably disappoint. I think we have to go with Aceval as the linch pin at the back, which I think he's solid enough to do. Pair him with Maund. Give the kid a chance.

dow117
03-20-2012, 11:20 AM
I have been following Swansea quite closely this year and your observatioins are right on... the Barcelona ( albeit limited with no stars ) of the EPL.

Suds
03-20-2012, 11:23 AM
My guess is TFC just go ahead with who they have on their squad now. I don't think we will see any major changes at this point.

dantdot
03-20-2012, 11:24 AM
Wasn't Emory signed as CB? I'd like to see him get a start next to Aceval on Saturday.

Yeah, he was. He played out of position last game. He's quicker and more comfortable on the ball than Harden, that's for sure.

Canary10
03-20-2012, 11:24 AM
"I have been following Swansea quite closely this year and your observatioins are right on... the Barcelona ( albeit limited with no stars ) of the EPL."

Totally. Teams that don't get the ball don't score. Swansea beat Fulham 3-0 this weekend with like 70% possession. If they can do that with no stars in the hardest league in the world, surely Winter can make good on his supposed "way of playing" and do it with TFC in MLS. We are not playing a possession game right now.

[NBF]
03-20-2012, 11:27 AM
The real question is who has depth there and can make a deal?

I think back to Ero and shudder a bit given what we gave up. Given that was inter division too - I know other clubs don't like making that deal and neither should we.

Its come full circle. When in doubt refer to the last thing that was done that can be done. This team will not get value in return for Frei. I think the only option at this point is to hope for the best with Henry, Cann, and Harden. I dont think Maund is someone that can replace either of the three right now.

One solution though, might be to pair up Eckersley with Aceval and start either Henry or Stinson at right back with JDG playing infront of Aceval and Eckersley. I dont see why not.

4-3-3 or 4-1-4-1:

--------------------------------Frei--------------------------------
Henry-------------Eckersley-------------Aceval--------------Morgan
-----------------------------DeGuzman-----------------------------
------------------Avila--------------------Silva---------------------
Plata-------------------------------------------------------Johnson
----------------------------Koevermans----------------------------

PS: I do think the question has to be asked, why isnt Koevermans healthy in time for the new season and how long will the team be held hostage until he is back to scoring ways?

Carts
03-20-2012, 11:31 AM
;1461479']
--------------------------------Frei--------------------------------
Henry----------Eckersley-----------Aceval--------------Morgan
-----------------------------DeGuzman-----------------------------
------------------Avila--------------------Silva---------------------
Plata-------------------------------------------------------Johnson
----------------------------Koevermans----------------------------


This is interesting, and I see & like the thinking behind it...

Sure Big-Ecks has been solid on the outside, and likes to push forward - but perhaps with his pedigree and fitness he can slot into a CB role...

His height might hurt, but that's a chance I'd be willing to take... If the rest will listen, I'm sure he'd give the effort to step into a lead at the back...

Just when so many of us had optimism, our best player is ripped from the lineup for an extended period... FML!

mastermixer
03-20-2012, 11:34 AM
Torsten Frings is trending in Toronto...

http://trendsmap.com/local/ca/toronto

Canary10
03-20-2012, 11:36 AM
"Sure Big-Ecks has been solid on the outside, and likes to push forward - but perhaps with his pedigree and fitness he can slot into a CB role..."


Ecks is too much of a bulldozer. We'll be giving up penalties and free kicks just outside the box like streamers at the Rogers Centre.

Canary10
03-20-2012, 11:38 AM
"Torsten Frings is trending in Toronto...

http://trendsmap.com/local/ca/toronto (http://trendsmap.com/local/ca/toronto) "

So is Grant Holt!!! ....Wait, that's Todd Holt. Damn.

ecospice
03-20-2012, 11:39 AM
Todd Dunivant would be great as a CB for TFC. Thanks again Mo Johnston...:picard:

mastermixer
03-20-2012, 11:41 AM
;1461479']Its come full circle. When in doubt refer to the last thing that was done that can be done. This team will not get value in return for Frei. I think the only option at this point is to hope for the best with Henry, Cann, and Harden. I dont think Maund is someone that can replace either of the three right now.

One solution though, might be to pair up Eckersley with Aceval and start either Henry or Stinson at right back with JDG playing infront of Aceval and Eckersley. I dont see why not.

4-3-3 or 4-1-4-1:

--------------------------------Frei--------------------------------
Henry-------------Eckersley-------------Aceval--------------Morgan
-----------------------------DeGuzman-----------------------------
------------------Avila--------------------Silva---------------------
Plata-------------------------------------------------------Johnson
----------------------------Koevermans----------------------------

PS: I do think the question has to be asked, why isnt Koevermans healthy in time for the new season and how long will the team be held hostage until he is back to scoring ways?

Looking at Koevermans, he doesnt seem like a guy who was ever in perfect physical condition. Now he has age to fight with as well. Bottom line is he's not going to get any better athletically than he has been.

Red Rat
03-20-2012, 11:43 AM
NBF
Sorry dont know how to reply yet on this new board
this set up would not work for coupke of reasons.
De Guzman is not a defensive player, we need a destroyer there
avila and silva are not play makers
this will never work
we need Deguzman and Frings in place of avila and silva

scooterTFC
03-20-2012, 11:44 AM
I agree completely with idea of transitioning to a 'point back' midfield, getting Silva and Avila on the field at the same time could really help us in alot of ways - (possession, attacking quality, and upfield pressure on the ball when defending). Eckersley is the best option to we have a CB right now. I think the Stinson or Hall (injury status?) might be better cover at RB than Henry.

Red Rat
03-20-2012, 11:44 AM
there it is now it works, oh well
;1461479']Its come full circle. When in doubt refer to the last thing that was done that can be done. This team will not get value in return for Frei. I think the only option at this point is to hope for the best with Henry, Cann, and Harden. I dont think Maund is someone that can replace either of the three right now.

One solution though, might be to pair up Eckersley with Aceval and start either Henry or Stinson at right back with JDG playing infront of Aceval and Eckersley. I dont see why not.

4-3-3 or 4-1-4-1:

--------------------------------Frei--------------------------------
Henry-------------Eckersley-------------Aceval--------------Morgan
-----------------------------DeGuzman-----------------------------
------------------Avila--------------------Silva---------------------
Plata-------------------------------------------------------Johnson
----------------------------Koevermans----------------------------

PS: I do think the question has to be asked, why isnt Koevermans healthy in time for the new season and how long will the team be held hostage until he is back to scoring ways?

razor787
03-20-2012, 11:50 AM
Nana Attakora is out of contract. If he can come in, and prove he deserves to be back, we will have a stable (not great, but stable) back line.

I would give him a contract for 1 year, with the option of a second. Let's see if he's interested in some mercenary work.

Pendrith
03-20-2012, 11:52 AM
TFC has more depth than in the previous 5 seasons to manage without Frings. Time for the rest of the team to step up, particularly Koevermans.

Red Rat
03-20-2012, 11:54 AM
Nana Attakora is out of contract. If he can come in, and prove he deserves to be back, we will have a stable (not great, but stable) back line.

I would give him a contract for 1 year, with the option of a second. Let's see if he's interested in some mercenary work.
I think that he pissed off too many people here, I don't think that he will come back.
Also I don't think that even with Can back there will solve some of our issues, Cann is not the best ball distributor

Technorgasm
03-20-2012, 11:54 AM
Our biggest problem is we're still not playing the possession game Winter has promised. He should be taking a really really close look at what Swansea does. Their entire defence is predicated on keeping the ball. They have no stars at the back (other than maybe Vorm), but they never give up the ball. That's the key to our defence if Winter is serious about what he's been saying all this time.

I have been saying this exact thing forever. . (no reference to Swansea though)
Still, you need the personnel to make higher passing %. . .
hoof it and hope seems to be what we will see.

Peaches. calling peaches. . we need you.

score more than them. . . I think that will see us win.
just a theory.

DoubleUp
03-20-2012, 12:12 PM
I think that he pissed off too many people here, I don't think that he will come back.
Also I don't think that even with Can back there will solve some of our issues, Cann is not the best ball distributor


I think its time to put away hurt feelings, and try again. I am sure Nana now sees the grass is not always greener.

But its essentially upto winter.

razor787
03-20-2012, 12:15 PM
I think that he pissed off too many people here, I don't think that he will come back.
Also I don't think that even with Can back there will solve some of our issues, Cann is not the best ball distributor

He did do a good job of pissing us off, but if he can help the team get out of it's tough spot, then forgive and forget. I would rather him back, trying to earn his position back, than to wait 6 weeks with a horrible defense.

The best person to get is the one who needs to prove himself to you, and that's nana right now.

brad
03-20-2012, 12:15 PM
This is interesting, and I see & like the thinking behind it...

Sure Big-Ecks has been solid on the outside, and likes to push forward - but perhaps with his pedigree and fitness he can slot into a CB role...

His height might hurt, but that's a chance I'd be willing to take... If the rest will listen, I'm sure he'd give the effort to step into a lead at the back...

Just when so many of us had optimism, our best player is ripped from the lineup for an extended period... FML!

Ecks played at CB less than convincingly last year (including the away demolition at NY). Not fair to shoulder the blame on him directly, but he did look a bit lost in that role.

Of course, there is also a difference between slotting a fullback in at CB for some games, and converting a fullback to a CB full time.

brad
03-20-2012, 12:16 PM
The rumors that have been floating around for a while is that they are keeping some roster slots open for the summer transfer window. To me that sort of implies that they have targets in mind for then. We might have to limp by with what we have until then.

ManUtd4ever
03-20-2012, 12:21 PM
Peaches. calling peaches. . we need you.

:lol:

I actually think that when the dust settles and our backline is healthy, Aceval, Cann, and Emory should comprise what will be a decent top three among our group of central defenders.

DoubleUp
03-20-2012, 12:31 PM
The rumors that have been floating around for a while is that they are keeping some roster slots open for the summer transfer window. To me that sort of implies that they have targets in mind for then. We might have to limp by with what we have until then.



Nakajima-Farran.............Please!!!!!!:willy_nilly:

maninb
03-20-2012, 12:45 PM
I would take Rafa Marquez in a hear beat but, that is just impossible to have

Sorry...NO CHANCE...he was ABYSMAL last year and to start this year...and the fact that he's a EGOTISTICAL A-HOLE doesn't help...

Stress
03-20-2012, 01:10 PM
Nana's with the Olympic team - no? Regardless, I don't think he's the answer. I agree with the few on here saying we shouldn't panic and just use our depth to get by for these 4-6 weeks. Looking at the schedule and ignoring Santos Laguna, we are looking at SJ, Columbus, Montreal, Chivas, Chicago and probably RSL. With the exception of RSL, I think we still have a legitimate shot of picking up points against all these teams. I guess we'll see on Saturday.

Yohan
03-20-2012, 01:12 PM
Todd Dunivant would be great as a CB for TFC. Thanks again Mo Johnston...:picard:
not a CB

Carts
03-20-2012, 01:26 PM
Nana's with the Olympic team - no? Regardless, I don't think he's the answer. I agree with the few on here saying we shouldn't panic and just use our depth to get by for these 4-6 weeks. Looking at the schedule and ignoring Santos Laguna, we are looking at SJ, Columbus, Montreal, Chivas, Chicago and probably RSL. With the exception of RSL, I think we still have a legitimate shot of picking up points against all these teams. I guess we'll see on Saturday.

But that is exactly what I DON'T want to do...

Underdogs sure - Impossible no... If there's a way to improve our chances in CCL - take it! We're all the way in the final-4, no time like the present...

Hell, with two MLS clubs in the Canadian Championship now - our odds of making the CCL have gone down...

Roogsy
03-20-2012, 01:35 PM
He did do a good job of pissing us off, but if he can help the team get out of it's tough spot, then forgive and forget.

I don't even know what he did to piss us off. But I don't think Nana is the answer.

Stress
03-20-2012, 01:37 PM
But that is exactly what I DON'T want to do...

Underdogs sure - Impossible no... If there's a way to improve our chances in CCL - take it! We're all the way in the final-4, no time like the present...

Hell, with two MLS clubs in the Canadian Championship now - our odds of making the CCL have gone down...


I agree that it's not impossible and I still think we can put up a fight I just don't think we can successfully bring in any reinforcements within a week (I can't help but think of the Eddy V situation from last year). If anything, we need to work with the extended roster we had in Orlando.

Detroit_TFC
03-20-2012, 02:17 PM
I would consider a fit Nana A. But he is not fit, and has been going from injury to injury since he left. How long do you think it would be until he got hurt playing for us, especially with a stepped up role?

Dreadlocks
03-20-2012, 02:28 PM
I know Harden has been the whipping boy because of his play, I still think playing him and Acival in the back with JDG and Dunfield over them would make the most sense. We would have to stick to a 4-3-3 and not rotate into a 3-4-3 like we do when Frings is in.

Another thing, Koevermans and Plata have been no shows for the most part this season(I know it's only 3 games). If they start to find their form again with Johnson, goals will start coming. This hopefully will cover up for the goals we are bound to give away with our weak defense.

VoxPopuliCosmicum
03-20-2012, 02:31 PM
I don't even know what he did to piss us off. But I don't think Nana is the answer.

Agreed on both counts.

TFC Cityboy
03-20-2012, 02:31 PM
after all the trades over the past year we should have enough cover to weather the 4-6 week storm. There is no doubt we have been too dependent on TF to hold the back line and also to drive us forward. I think we'll see what kindof backbone this team has now. We were bound to lose him at some stage (tbh I suspected knee ligaments when he stayed down so am relieved it's "just" a hammy).
I'd hate to see us make a kneejerk move that we'd regret - especially if other clubs sense we are desperate.
Ecks has it right today - 'we have to get on with it". Dig deep, play harder and concentrate more. Ultimately it may improve us defensively if the experience gained sticks.
We've no chancei n the CCL anyway , it's the league that's pri 1.

Ageroo
03-20-2012, 02:44 PM
We've no chancei n the CCL anyway , it's the league that's pri 1.

That's not a great attitude...and yes I can see that you think we'll get thumped...but I would much rather us progress in CCL then league. I would rather us have a poor league start for that matter if it meant we are going to get to the final. I say balls to the wall and hope the start of the season isn't a write off. Glory is CCL in my mind, not league.

Super
03-20-2012, 02:45 PM
I'd take Nana back in a second. Not entirely sure why we should feel so upset that he left. He was making $40k, and it's not like the organization was great at the time he played here. Can't blame a guy for wanting a better deal at a club with better exposure as well.

Ossington Mental Youth
03-20-2012, 02:46 PM
sad to see this happen. some people are out to lunch on some of the trades they are thinking of. Also dont necessarily see any teams that need a keeper.
Wouldnt mind seeing stinson get time over Dunfield. Do really wish our defense would surprise us and step its game up significantly

West220Side
03-20-2012, 02:54 PM
I could see Eckersley starting at centerback (like last season) for the Saturday match, while we scramble to adjust for Wednesday.

Couchy81
03-20-2012, 02:56 PM
sad to see this happen. some people are out to lunch on some of the trades they are thinking of.

Yea just goes to show how irreplaceable Frings is.

Dv23
03-20-2012, 02:58 PM
Kocic in goal, Frei starting at CB.

RPB_RED_NATION_RPB
03-20-2012, 03:12 PM
I'll say if Frie wasn't already on the block....with Frings going down...I'll say he's being shopped around as i type this!

RPB_RED_NATION_RPB
03-20-2012, 03:16 PM
in my mind...this is a time for JDG to surely show his worth...the team has become his now...will he take it by the horns and lead this team...if he is unable to then i think we surely have to consider his future at this club!!! Replacing Frings..is almost impossible at this point...but im hoping JDG can fill some of the gap!

Ajax TFC
03-20-2012, 03:21 PM
NBF
Sorry dont know how to reply yet on this new board
this set up would not work for coupke of reasons.
De Guzman is not a defensive player, we need a destroyer there
avila and silva are not play makers
this will never work
we need Deguzman and Frings in place of avila and silva
no, defensive midfielder is JDG's main position. But he can play in a slightly more advanced role as well, as he did last year after Frings took over the DM spot.

Anyone else wishing we still had Sturgis now? It seems that last year we had an abundance of CMs. now suddenly we only have two starter quality ones. Next we have one experienced backup who is nowhere near the level that he has to be, and a 19 year old, who's probably at the same level as Dunfield, but will improve. And that's pretty much the extent of our central/defensive midfield depth

__wowza
03-20-2012, 03:57 PM
after all the trades over the past year we should have enough cover to weather the 4-6 week storm. There is no doubt we have been too dependent on TF to hold the back line and also to drive us forward. I think we'll see what kindof backbone this team has now. We were bound to lose him at some stage (tbh I suspected knee ligaments when he stayed down so am relieved it's "just" a hammy).
I'd hate to see us make a kneejerk move that we'd regret - especially if other clubs sense we are desperate.
Ecks has it right today - 'we have to get on with it". Dig deep, play harder and concentrate more. Ultimately it may improve us defensively if the experience gained sticks.

very interesting take. frings is gone, let's see which leaders emerge.
i may admit that winter sending frings to the backline worked for last season to bail out the players who werent ready to start when our originals went down, but this shouldve only been a failsafe this season. something we needed to do when we had to protect a lead.

we cant jump into another CB purchase without undermining the confidence of who we have there now (i'll admit it, harden HAS had a good game here and there). we're not LA and we do have some decent depth at the back, so let's see what we can do.



(pre-emptive edit for worst case scenario 2 games from now:) GODDAMIT, WHAT THE HELL ARE WE DOING? BUY! BUY NOW!!

jloome
03-20-2012, 04:14 PM
Aceval played defensive mid in Chile as well as centre back, apparently, but I'm not convinced his read is good enough to fill that spot.

Really, if we're sticking with the 3-4-3, DeGuzman seems like the only guy qualified. But I'd expect Winter will go back to the 4-3-3 flat back, play Eckersley and Morgan a little deeper:

--------------Kocic----------------
Ecks--Harden--Aceval--Morgan
-------DeGuzman--Dunfield---
--------------Silva--------------
---Soolsma---------Johnson--
----------Koevermans-----------

I'd keep it as a 3-4-3 but play the flanks a little deeper, so it's a 5-2-3, play narrow and fairly direct for the buildup and wide for the counter:
--------------Kocic---------------
-------------DeGuzman-----------
Ecks---Harden-------Aceval--Morgan
--------Soolsma------Silva-------------
Johnson-----Koevermans------Plata

DeGUzman's head always seems in and out of games, but he's one of the better players we have at reading the flow, which is why he was a DM in Spain. So we use him as a sweeper, with a flat back four that counters on the wings. Offensively, we build through Silva and Soolsma, as they have the best ability to hang onto the ball while the others players find position and space.

brad
03-20-2012, 04:20 PM
Yea just goes to show how irreplaceable Frings is.

Which is the way it should be. A DP should be head and shoulders above the guy next to him making 5 figures or low 6 figures. If a regular MLS'r could step in and more or less patch the hole left by Frings, then we'd be wasting money on him IMHO.

Flipityflu
03-20-2012, 06:01 PM
i'm going to be hopeful on this one and think that Frings being out is going to cause some to step up. yep, thats what i'm going to do.

DoubleUp
03-20-2012, 07:17 PM
Which is the way it should be. A DP should be head and shoulders above the guy next to him making 5 figures or low 6 figures. If a regular MLS'r could step in and more or less patch the hole left by Frings, then we'd be wasting money on him IMHO.

Qouted for truth, and its not just frings any Dp this statement applies to.

Technorgasm
03-20-2012, 08:27 PM
could be worse . ..

http://www.tsn.ca/soccer/mls/story/?id=390898

WHITECAPS STRIKER SUFFERS BURNS TO ARMS MAKING DINNER

TOBOR !
03-20-2012, 08:56 PM
^
you
should have made sandwiches
should have made sandwiches
should have made sandwiches !

AlanO
03-20-2012, 09:25 PM
Really, if we're sticking with the 3-4-3, DeGuzman seems like the only guy qualified. But I'd expect Winter will go back to the 4-3-3 flat back, play Eckersley and Morgan a little deeper:

--------------Kocic----------------
Ecks--Harden--Aceval--Morgan
-------DeGuzman--Dunfield---
--------------Silva--------------
---Soolsma---------Johnson--
----------Koevermans-----------

I'd keep it as a 3-4-3 but play the flanks a little deeper, so it's a 5-2-3, play narrow and fairly direct for the buildup and wide for the counter:
--------------Kocic---------------
-------------DeGuzman-----------
Ecks---Harden-------Aceval--Morgan
--------Soolsma------Silva-------------
Johnson-----Koevermans------Plata


These lineups are fully capable of taking some points in the next half-dozen MLS games.

I hope Winter focuses on MLS rather than CCL. Don't throw away league points by resting players for the games against Santos. There's still a good chance of winning some league matches, while it will take several miracles to beat Santos.

Alonso
03-20-2012, 09:54 PM
These lineups are fully capable of taking some points in the next half-dozen MLS games.

I hope Winter focuses on MLS rather than CCL. Don't throw away league points by resting players for the games against Santos. There's still a good chance of winning some league matches, while it will take several miracles to beat Santos.


I'm in the camp that rates the CCL as a more prestigious goal.

I think everything should be focused on advancing in this competition.

Ossington Mental Youth
03-21-2012, 06:48 AM
These lineups are fully capable of taking some points in the next half-dozen MLS games.

I hope Winter focuses on MLS rather than CCL. Don't throw away league points by resting players for the games against Santos. There's still a good chance of winning some league matches, while it will take several miracles to beat Santos.

yeah gotta say those line ups look half decent to me too. obviously prefer that we have frings but we dont unfortunately. Do think its unfortunate Stinson wont be around as i do think he'd stepup his game.

ensco
03-21-2012, 07:36 AM
Don't throw away league points by resting players for the games against Santos. There's still a good chance of winning some league matches, while it will take several miracles to beat Santos.

Are you kidding? Miracles happen all the time in knockout competitions (2012 examples: Apoel and Basel). We are a couple of lucky breaks away from playing a meaningful game against Barcelona or Real Madrid. But these chances are few and far between (face it, this year we'll be underdogs to make it out of group stage even if we win NCC).

I still think Winter should take the team to train at altitude, and leave Bent to play 11 Academy kids Saturday.

Derko
03-21-2012, 07:42 AM
Are you kidding? Miracles happen all the time in knockout competitions (2012 examples: Apoel and Basel). We are a couple of lucky breaks away from playing a meaningful game against Barcelona or Real Madrid. But these chances are few and far between (face it, this year we'll be underdogs to make it out of group stage even if we win NCC).

I still think Winter should take the team to train at altitude, and leave Bent to play 11 Academy kids Saturday.

You mean next Saturday as we have the Santos at BMO on Wednesday, then leave Thursday to train at altitude for the following game away in Mexico, am I correct?

AlanO
03-21-2012, 07:48 AM
Are you kidding? Miracles happen all the time in knockout competitions (2012 examples: Apoel and Basel).

No, miracles don't happen all the time. If they did, they wouldn't be miracles.

There are thousands of examples where a heavy favourite advanced in a knockout tournament. Apoel's recent run is the exception.

I'm not saying Winter should give up on CCL. But I don't think he should risk sacrificing MLS points by resting players, and saving them for CCL.

ensco
03-21-2012, 08:09 AM
You mean next Saturday as we have the Santos at BMO on Wednesday, then leave Thursday to train at altitude for the following game away in Mexico, am I correct?

Oops. Right, of course. I mean the Columbus game.

ensco
03-21-2012, 08:13 AM
No, miracles don't happen all the time. If they did, they wouldn't be miracles.

There are thousands of examples where a heavy favourite advanced in a knockout tournament. Apoel's recent run is the exception.

I'm not saying Winter should give up on CCL. But I don't think he should risk sacrificing MLS points by resting players, and saving them for CCL.

You need to watch more movies!

"Thousands" implies something that is absurd. I'd say TFC is a 6:1 underdog to get by Santos, somewhere around 25:1 to 50:1 to win the CCL.

No problem!

Canary10
03-21-2012, 08:31 AM
You need to watch more movies!

"Thousands" implies something that is absurd. I'd say TFC is a 6:1 underdog to get by Santos, somewhere around 25:1 to 50:1 to win the CCL.

No problem!

We actually drew Pumas last year without Frings in the lineup. It's not impossible. I was getting down on CCL after the Frings loss, but thanks to Ensco I'm back on the bandwagon. We don't get many shots to be in the final of a major tournament like this. We need to go for it, whatever it takes.

Greatest Ripoff
03-21-2012, 08:48 AM
To me, the CCL is way more important than a few points in the league. I could really care less about scraping into MLS playoffs. I don't see much upside to finishing 5th instead of 6th in the eastern conference. What I really want is to win the V's Cup again and get back into the CCL.

Roogsy
03-21-2012, 09:27 AM
Sorry, I am a cold, hard numbers guy. My favourite subject in school was math probabilities. My favourite game is Poker. I play the odds.

Play your best team on Saturday. Long-term, Frings injury should not substantially impact our MLS season. But in order for that to be so, we need to capitalize every week, with or without Frings. Especially against the weaker teams in the league like San Jose. Every point counts. We need 3 against SJ this weekend, nothing less, for the MLS season to continue on track. I am not saying it's a must-win but it is the kind of games that define what the year-end results would be.

Roogsy
03-21-2012, 09:30 AM
We actually drew Pumas last year without Frings in the lineup. It's not impossible. I was getting down on CCL after the Frings loss, but thanks to Ensco I'm back on the bandwagon. We don't get many shots to be in the final of a major tournament like this. We need to go for it, whatever it takes.

Few succeed in life playing the long-shot. Counting on more miracles because one happened in the past is a risky (and unlikely) way to succeed. Yes, we should take our best shot at beating Santos. I am not saying we should give up and lie down for them, but I don't think we should do it by laying down for a beatable team.

Canary10
03-21-2012, 09:38 AM
Few succeed in life playing the long-shot. Counting on more miracles because one happened in the past is a risky (and unlikely) way to succeed. Yes, we should take our best shot at beating Santos. I am not saying we should give up and lie down for them, but I don't think we should do it by laying down for a beatable team.

We need a win against San Jose, I totally agree. This was a game we needlessly dropped 2 points last year in the final minutes of the game. Games where we did that really added up last year. We need to win convert those to wins to have a chance. Plus no team should be coming to BMO expecting points. We need to establish that early.

mdc 77
03-21-2012, 11:19 AM
Why are people asking to train at altitude? It won't make that much of a difference if any, Torreon is not high enough that you would need to be acclimatized. Its nowhere near the elevation of Mexico City even, the elevation will be the least of our worries. Train where you are comfortable, don't throw things out of wack at this stage.

I say you play starters for 45 or 50min. saturday and then obviously all out for Santos. This is a rare chance, you never know when you will be back.

Red Rat
03-21-2012, 11:36 AM
You mean next Saturday as we have the Santos at BMO on Wednesday, then leave Thursday to train at altitude for the following game away in Mexico, am I correct?
no team trains in altitude unless you have months to acclimatize
You shoot before the game and you leave right after the game

prizby
03-21-2012, 01:49 PM
NBF
Sorry dont know how to reply yet on this new board
this set up would not work for coupke of reasons.
De Guzman is not a defensive player, we need a destroyer there
avila and silva are not play makers
this will never work
we need Deguzman and Frings in place of avila and silva

doesn't silva have great vision or were 17 goals and 10 assists last year just flukes?

Phil
03-21-2012, 01:52 PM
doesn't silva have great vision or were 17 goals and 10 assists last year just flukes?

They are not flukes, but in a different lower league. There are no guarantess that it will translate into the MLS. We need to take time bringing talent into play IMO. Not to say it won't work out but I hate the idea of throwing the kid into areas over his head with high expectation. That is a sure path to destroying talent.

Yohan
03-21-2012, 02:18 PM
They are not flukes, but in a different lower league. There are no guarantess that it will translate into the MLS. We need to take time bringing talent into play IMO. Not to say it won't work out but I hate the idea of throwing the kid into areas over his head with high expectation. That is a sure path to destroying talent.
one thing I thought Winter did well was to bring up Plata slowly into first team, despite a lot of supporters wanting him to play Plata early

Chevy
03-21-2012, 09:15 PM
Agreed. We attempt to advance in the CCL because...we can. We're two games from the final, and (dare to dream) four games from the freakin' Club World Cup. Dismissing that, even if the possibility is remote is not forgiveable. The MLS system allows for the 'throwing away' of points so why not take advantage of it.

TFC/Everton
03-21-2012, 09:24 PM
Agreed. We attempt to advance in the CCL because...we can. We're two games from the final, and (dare to dream) four games from the freakin' Club World Cup. Dismissing that, even if the possibility is remote is not forgiveable. The MLS system allows for the 'throwing away' of points so why not take advantage of it.

It is very hard to make it to the semi finals of the champions league. 4 games away from playing in the club world cup.

This has to be our #1 priority.

ensco
03-21-2012, 09:58 PM
Sorry, I am a cold, hard numbers guy. My favourite subject in school was math probabilities. My favourite game is Poker. I play the odds.

Play your best team on Saturday. Long-term, Frings injury should not substantially impact our MLS season. But in order for that to be so, we need to capitalize every week, with or without Frings. Especially against the weaker teams in the league like San Jose. Every point counts. We need 3 against SJ this weekend, nothing less, for the MLS season to continue on track. I am not saying it's a must-win but it is the kind of games that define what the year-end results would be.

You sure you're weighting the payoffs correctly?

We have a decent shot at MLS playoffs every year. We will get maybe a handful of shots at the CCL in our lifetime.

Roogsy
03-21-2012, 11:36 PM
You sure you're weighting the payoffs correctly?

We have a decent shot at MLS playoffs every year. We will get maybe a handful of shots at the CCL in our lifetime.

LOL you're right of course but we haven't exactly succeeded when the probabilities were even more in our favour.

Greatest Ripoff
03-22-2012, 12:05 AM
It is very hard to make it to the semi finals of the champions league. 4 games away from playing in the club world cup.

This has to be our #1 priority.


I couldn't agree more. Right now I am so much happier making it to the semi finals of the CCL then I would be be making the MLS play offs.

J .
03-22-2012, 01:23 AM
I think long term the CCL is more important to gauge where we are at vs the top teams on the continent but in the immediate future making the MLS playoffs is more important locally.

Derko
03-22-2012, 10:03 AM
I think it is more important for an MLS Club to excel in the CCL, because it is International Club Football, the MLS Playoffs are something to strive towards as an added bonus, I don't like the stupid North American Playoff format anyway. My opinion only.

Canary10
03-22-2012, 10:10 AM
There's still a lot of work to be done with the line-up. JDG has had about 1 game's worth of minutes for TFC in preseason, CCL and regular season combined. It's kind of unfair to him really to be expected to take the reigns from Frings given how little playing time he's had. He needs to get minutes on Saturday. They need to come out with the strongest team they can Saturday if for no other reason to be fully prepped for Wednesday. Resting makes no sense either from the league perspective or advancing in the CCL perspective.

VoxPopuliCosmicum
03-22-2012, 12:18 PM
Did I miss an update on JDG's status, or has there not been one? Specifically, does anyone know why he didn't play in Seattle?

Canary10
03-22-2012, 12:23 PM
Did I miss an update on JDG's status, or has there not been one? Specifically, does anyone know why he didn't play in Seattle?

I think JDG not playing is one of those strange Winter personnel decisions that no one but him quite understands.

Carts
03-22-2012, 12:25 PM
My guess (just a guess) was the Winter plan was the play Frings vs Seattle & rest JDG...
Then rest Frings during the home opener - while playing JDG....
Then Frings has 11-days rest for Santos, while JDG doesn't start that match...

The injury blew that plan all that to hell...

Canary10
03-22-2012, 12:44 PM
My guess (just a guess) was the Winter plan was the play Frings vs Seattle & rest JDG...
Then rest Frings during the home opener - while playing JDG....
Then Frings has 11-days rest for Santos, while JDG doesn't start that match...

The injury blew that plan all that to hell...

JDG played one half of one of the friendlies against the college teams in preseason, didn't play a single minute of the Disney tournament, none of the first CCL game, 63 minutes of the second CCL game. He needed minutes, not rest. I don't understand that decision at all.

mastermixer
03-22-2012, 01:05 PM
I think JDG not playing is one of those strange Winter personnel decisions that no one but him quite understands.

He's going to be the captain on Saturday.

__wowza
03-22-2012, 01:10 PM
wasnt there something i was hearing about him having a bum knee for the past two years that hadnt fully healed? maybe its that.

Ageroo
03-22-2012, 01:57 PM
JDG played one half of one of the friendlies against the college teams in preseason, didn't play a single minute of the Disney tournament, none of the first CCL game, 63 minutes of the second CCL game. He needed minutes, not rest. I don't understand that decision at all.

But played 78 minutes in the CMNT match on February 29th.

VoxPopuliCosmicum
03-22-2012, 04:21 PM
^That's why I didn't get the decision to rest him for the entire game against Seattle. If JDG had been healthy, one would have thought at least a half would have been in order.

Canary10
03-23-2012, 08:39 AM
But played 78 minutes in the CMNT match on February 29th.

Yeah. It wasn't a bad decision sending him there since he couldn't play in the CCL game, but he's had the least amount of minutes with TFC of any of the starters. He really looked it against LA. He didn't have the legs at all and his passing was off. Now he'll have to shoulder the load, having barely played. I think he should be captain and I hope he rises to the responsbility but he hasn't been given any favours by the lack of playing time. He should have been in against Seattle for at least a half. Winter has a habit of tinkering with line-ups when we need a consistent starting 11 that has gelled and can play that flowing game we were seeing last year. I hope JDG isn't set up to fail because fans are particularly harsh on him.