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View Full Version : Kocic vs Frei? who plays goal?



geordie77
03-15-2012, 09:06 AM
can Frei make his way back into the team?

London
03-15-2012, 09:07 AM
kocic in CCL for sure

EastYork
03-15-2012, 09:09 AM
Hands down Kocic. After last night he earned the number one spot. Frei had his chance in the first LA game but blew it.

Gazza
03-15-2012, 09:11 AM
Frei is a good goalie with a couple really bad flaws. One of those flaws caused the first goal at the Roger's Center and took the wind out of our sales, temporarily.

Since we don't defend well off set-pieces, i like having a goalie who can come out confidently and collect the ball.

brad
03-15-2012, 09:13 AM
Tough call, but have to say Kocic on form - not just the two games against LA, but in the latter half of last season as well.

I really wonder if it's time to think about moving Frei in the MLS.

jabbronies
03-15-2012, 09:14 AM
Both have their pros and cons. I don't really see one being better than the other. I think it'll come down to who is hot at the time.

trane
03-15-2012, 09:20 AM
I think for now Kocic. Until he loses the spot.

While Frei may have more "ability" Kocic is simply the better player at this point.

Yakibino
03-15-2012, 09:33 AM
Watching the games, I feel more confident with Kocic in net.

Razor
03-15-2012, 09:33 AM
Kocic for sure.

Frei lost his chance the first game against LA.

Eastend
03-15-2012, 09:38 AM
I agree :)

Heart of Stone
03-15-2012, 09:43 AM
"Kocic vs Frei" is so much better than "Reimer vs. Gustavsson" but don't tell the mainstream Toronto sports media.

tfc2007
03-15-2012, 09:49 AM
"Kocic vs Frei" is so much better than "Reimer vs. Gustavsson" but don't tell the mainstream Toronto sports media.

That is more of who isn't as bad today!

At least with K vs F, it's more about who is better.

Ajax TFC
03-15-2012, 09:54 AM
I'd honestly like to know what Kocic's (aka cock-itch according to the cancacaf commentators) flaws are? Some people say that Frei's better with 1vs1's but Kocic is great with those too (robbing Keane twice) he collects crosses better, comes off his line with more confidence, and is quicker to move across his net (I have yet to see Kocic watch a ball go past him).
Anyone want to offer some EXAMPLES to support general claims like "Frei has more ability" or "both have pros and cons".

just an idea...

Carts
03-15-2012, 09:56 AM
Right now, Frei in the MLS - Kocic in the CCL...

Don't risk injury, don't change focus...

From now until the 27th - Kocic works, trains, studies Santos...

trane
03-15-2012, 09:59 AM
^ I can agree with this. Right now Santos should be the focus.

DoubleUp
03-15-2012, 10:01 AM
Tough call, but have to say Kocic on form - not just the two games against LA, but in the latter half of last season as well.

I really wonder if it's time to think about moving Frei in the MLS.


This just might be a possibility, his contract is large and could be cut in half to pay an adequate back for kocic with money left over.

RPB_RED_NATION_RPB
03-15-2012, 10:17 AM
KOCIC....has really come in and took over the #1...love the way he attacks the ball!

Having Frie also is not a bad thing..

__wowza
03-15-2012, 10:22 AM
Tough call, but have to say Kocic on form


I think it'll come down to who is hot at the time.

personally, i think that "form" is not relevant at this point. if kocic is on form, he's been on form since the end of last season up till now. i think form resets when the season starts personally.

frei made some big mistakes, and tonight i honestly felt kocic was the better choice and wouldve been the better choice in the first game. i felt comfortable when he was in net, especially on set pieces (which LA had a lot of). that plus he made a few HUGE saves.

if anything, hopefully it force frei to step up his game, freis not had by any means. like jabby said, its just a matter of pros and cons.


in any case.. who else is glad we have two OUTSTANDING goalkeepers?

ManUtd4ever
03-15-2012, 10:26 AM
It's a great problem to have for any manager. If Kocic continues to solidify a starting role on this club, perhaps Frei can be used as valuable trade bait at some point. In any case, I think it's fair to say that TFC might have the best 1-2 punch in goal in the entire league.

JuliquE
03-15-2012, 10:32 AM
Right now, Frei in the MLS - Kocic in the CCL...

Don't risk injury, don't change focus...

From now until the 27th - Kocic works, trains, studies Santos...
Nothing has ever made more sense.

Donald Duck
03-15-2012, 10:38 AM
Frei is out of shape after his injury. You can see he is out of confidence from the LA game. Give him some times, I am sure he can pick it back up.
Meanwhile, we love to see Kocic step up which Frei is out of shape. We need both of them to make the team defense line stay strong.

Torcida
03-15-2012, 10:38 AM
Kocic's distribution is pretty poor, he's afraid to use his right foot and even with his left he's not that accurate or powerful. But in net, it was night and day from last night and last week with Frei there; Kocic's positioning was great and he made a game changing save. Kocic is our #1 until proven otherwise.

"Kocic hasn't been beaten by anyone, except for his OWN teammate TY HARDEN!" -Craig "can't see the Forrest for the trees"

Pinkie
03-15-2012, 10:55 AM
Right now, Frei in the MLS - Kocic in the CCL...

Don't risk injury, don't change focus...

From now until the 27th - Kocic works, trains, studies Santos...

i like this.

but i also looove that we can actually have this debate.

T-boy
03-15-2012, 11:16 AM
TFC have a wonderful problem on their hands. Both are great goallies!

I'd personally pick....Kocic. Frei's small issue is sometimes that he isnt such a great communicator? Kocic is sometimes a little louder and angrier, and that sometimes gets defenders on his wavelength a bit quicker?

But both are goallies, really!

Mojo
03-15-2012, 11:24 AM
That save on Robbie Keane.

Kocic, case closed.

ryan
03-15-2012, 11:25 AM
Frei vs Seattle. If he plays well, then again vs SJ. If he's poor, then give Kocic both starts.

No way Kocic doesn't start vs Santos.

Oldtimer
03-15-2012, 11:32 AM
Right now, Frei in the MLS - Kocic in the CCL...

Don't risk injury, don't change focus...

From now until the 27th - Kocic works, trains, studies Santos...

Agreed, We can have two good keepers, each that plays in different competitions, can't we?

Joe Kool
03-15-2012, 11:32 AM
I really like Frei and what he has done for us but Kocic has been our guy in pressure situations it seems and has always come through for us. I say Kocic for sure especially for the CCL. It seems to be his thang.

__wowza
03-15-2012, 11:38 AM
That save on Robbie Keane.

Kocic, case closed.


sorry, which one was that? there were too of them!!
i love that we can have THAT debate :D.

uncle p
03-15-2012, 12:04 PM
Yeah, I like the Kocic for CCL and Frei for league play idea.....let Kocic focus and train for CCL opponents, and when its all over the real debate can begin.

Unless Frei really starts shitting the bed i think this is the best plan

Maltese Falcon
03-15-2012, 12:08 PM
Kocic seems more relaxed in the net...Frei is animated but I think it throws him off his game. After that patty cake swat to Magee last game I really am not sure...

Offside goal
03-15-2012, 12:14 PM
Frei has historically made great 1v1 saves over the years and that was his strength over Kocic in my opinion.

Last night's MOTM performance from Kocic shows that he's rounded out his overall game and that he's ready for prime time.

A wonderful 'problem' indeed.......

ACSertL
03-15-2012, 12:14 PM
I don't advocate splitting duties. If Kocic is in form you play him, league or cup.

Detroit_TFC
03-15-2012, 12:25 PM
Glad I don't have to make this decision. Got to go with Uncle P here, stay with the current plan for now.

Oblio2
03-15-2012, 12:28 PM
Kocic as a starter...trade Frei for the depth we need

cochrdoc
03-15-2012, 04:05 PM
Kocic commands his box better and deals with high balls.I think the boys play better with him.How many times in the last 3 years have we gave up a goal on a corner kick in the last 10 minutes with Frei in nets.Kocic was first star in my books with Frings ,Johnson,Soolsma next

Shway
03-15-2012, 04:15 PM
Kocic as a starter...trade Frei for the depth we need

I agree with Kocic being a starter, im torn on the fact of trading frei.I just dont like the thought of him getting traded, hes played 96 game for Toronto, and has saved the franchise numerous amount of times, when they're was no one to believe in, we believed in frei.

And i still have high hopes of him possibly playing for Canada :D

Code Red
03-15-2012, 04:33 PM
A wonderful problem to have indeed.

My opinion... CCL - Kocic, MLS - Frei

Both are very good at what they do and we're lucky as hell to have them BOTH.

Shway
03-15-2012, 04:57 PM
i also think it depends on the game and the style of play that a team plays.

LA was Kocic whipped in balls, crosses, ect.
Frei would do better against Santos style from watching there game yesterday

denime
03-15-2012, 05:28 PM
Kocic all the way,no need to rest a goalie 2 games into a season.

boban
03-15-2012, 05:32 PM
Gotta love this board for making logical, tempered rational decisions on players after 1 appearance.
At least there is no middle ground here. It all or nothing one way or the other lol

Dv23
03-15-2012, 08:11 PM
lol boban, exactly right.

Also, I'd like to add, Frei has made saves similar to the one Kocic did yesterday, on many occasions. He has been and remains the best keeper we have had. Kocic may very well be better, but he hasn't played nearly enough to prove it.

I also feel the need to mention that, despite not allowing a goal against LA yesterday, he was scored on on a play that was called offside (debatable to say the least). Had that goal been allowed, I think everyone would be pissed at Kocic. He rushed out and got beaten on that play, when another defender was in the midst of cutting off the LA player's angle, in effect (at least in my opinion) mitigating the scoring opportunity.

Okay, so final opinion for me: As has already been suggested, I propose that Frei play against Seattle and the subsequent MLS games, while Kocic focus entirely on the games against Santos. I do agree that his presence in the box is better, and I think we'll need that against them.

Waggy
03-15-2012, 08:21 PM
Go with the one who inspires the most faith/confidence from the backline. I'm going to assume that's Kocic. The box FEELS more secure when he's in there. Defenders know if a ball is coming in and he can get to it it'll be grabbed or knocked away. With Frei sometimes they have to worry about whats going on behind them or weird bounces or half attempts at clearing that don't really do much. I love Frei, but at this point in time, I say sell high. In a capped league, why have a $150 000 keeper playing spot duty. Move him for a backup keeper and allocation (to bring in a defender). And it's not just the one game, it was most of last season as well. Kocic just has better command of the area, no ifs ands or buts about it

Detroit_TFC
03-16-2012, 08:01 AM
Gotta love this board for making logical, tempered rational decisions on players after 1 appearance.
At least there is no middle ground here. It all or nothing one way or the other lol


I do have to say, your comment is right on target/ridiculously off base.

__wowza
03-16-2012, 08:24 AM
Gotta love this board for making logical, tempered rational decisions on players after 1 appearance.
At least there is no middle ground here. It all or nothing one way or the other lol

:rolleyes: gotta love this board for making logical, tempered rational decisions on players since the middle of last season..

or are we hitting the reset button on the entire team because the new seasons started and they each played one game of a two game semi-final? this isn't one appearance we're discussing, frei's made 81, milos has made 10 including stepping up for one of our star players last season when he went down injured winning save of the week twice in the process. this discussion sprung up during the CCL game against dallas, and at the beginning of the when kocic performed well when he was taking over for frei. it's just being discussed more intensely now.

tell me, what's the middle ground you suggest we havent pointed out here? "theyre both good! play them both in net at the same time"? maybe start one for one game, start the other for the next? it's been suggested and it's a fine, valid, point. however, who starts for the "big" games? the next CCL game? must win games?



were you planning on discussing what was posted in the thread or were you just here to divide the posts into extremes and made a snide remark?

DoubleUp
03-16-2012, 10:43 AM
competitive teams, teams that are looking to be champions have to be able to make hard decisions and pull the trigger. In toronto we get to sentimentally attached to our athletes and it distorts our overall evaluation of the situation. No one player is bigger than Tfc or more important when it comes to the overall goal, and that goal is to win.

flatpicker
03-16-2012, 10:49 AM
Both of these guys have some areas that they could improve on.
I've always been a fan of Frei.
But Kocic really showed some flash last season, and again against LA.
He's made some huge key saves, and showed great athleticism.
Perhaps it's still too early to say for sure who the #1 is,
But I put Kocic in the lead for the time being.

PearceCFC
03-16-2012, 10:54 AM
I've seen Frei make similar saves to the ones Kocic made on Wednesday... I'm gonna wait a few weeks before I make my decision on this... for now. Kocic in CCL and Frei in MLS

tfc007
03-17-2012, 05:20 AM
I am still not sold on kocic,If he can continue a whole season then maybe ill think different! Frei for me is still number one.Kocic is only started to show himself only when the team started playing well from second half of last season to now.Put kocic infront of nick garcia and all those shit defenders and shit teams that we had in the past and then we would see what kocic is made of! Sorry guys just my opinion!

TorontoGooner
03-17-2012, 09:40 AM
If you look at it one way, we're really lucky to have the choice. Both a good keepers, but I'd have to say Kocic. Good positioning and not afraid to come and get the ball

jmorgs88
03-17-2012, 12:20 PM
I think the one mistake against LA in the first leg is being blown up out of proportions. Kocic has been great whenever he plays but I still feel significantly more confident with Frei in goal. As much as we talk about how Kocic is strong playing balls that are crossed in Frei is no slouch either, he is excellent at claiming balls being whipped in

jimiv
03-17-2012, 03:33 PM
The question is why is there a ticket highlighting Kocic but not one with Frei in this years season tickets??

Hmmmm, makes you wonder.....

A.J
03-17-2012, 06:38 PM
Put whoever is in form at the moment.

Right now that seems to be Kocic.

If his performace is not up to par against Seattle tonight, it will be Frei next game.
We're going to have a lot of games this season. There's no reason why both of them shouldn't be used. (err... not at the same time though...)

I must say, this is quite an enjoyable predicament. It's much better than "Who is going to be the least of a liability at the back?" we were asking last season.

doin big frings
03-17-2012, 08:30 PM
I'd keep Kocic in their, trade Frei if the right opportunity presents itself.

ag futbol
03-17-2012, 11:20 PM
I think Kocic solidified his case to start today.

He's not the shot-stopper Frei is, but he he's remarkably consistent. He makes it pretty clear what he's capable of on a weekly basis.

Stouffville_RPB
03-21-2012, 02:32 PM
Tonnes of Kocic love here. I'm still going with Frei. Kocic is a quality keeper but I couldn't help but think to myself that maybe just maybe Frei could've stopped one of Estrada's goals Saturday. I think Frei goes at the ball with his hands instead of his feet on the first goal.

I don't get that thought about Kocic when Frei is in net.

Dv23
03-21-2012, 06:43 PM
I agree, Stouffville. I think that Frei would have saved at least one of the goals we conceded against Seattle. He has always been great on those one-timer shots. Usually he'll get a leg out or something.

Thomas
03-21-2012, 08:34 PM
I like them both, but at the moment, Kocic seems like our best man. Frei uses more theatrics on his saves. At times it looks like he exaggerates, so the saves appears to be more spectacular. Like I said, Frei is also a fine MLS keeper, and he has saved our bacon on many occasions.

MartinUtd
03-21-2012, 09:11 PM
I'd like to see the time split since either is capable of carrying this team. Frei is a higher profile player and we should be able to get more for him than Kocic (and Kocic is a smaller hit to the salary cap). Unfortunately if we don't play Frei then he's not going to look as valuable, but this is all based on the assumption that Winter is shopping him around. Either way we've seen each keeper perform one complete boondoggle in net... Frei had the tip to Magee and Kocic rolled around on the plastic pitch in Seattle. Both have displayed errors in the few minutes they've played and both made big saves. I don't think superior form can be established at this point.

117
03-23-2012, 10:36 AM
Andi Petrillo ‏ @andipHNIC (https://twitter.com/#%21/andipHNIC) TFC keeper Stefan Frei off to hospital after leg injury in practice today. Not looking good

MartinUtd
03-23-2012, 10:50 AM
Well that settles that question.

Suds
03-23-2012, 01:46 PM
Well that settles that question.

Not the way we would have liked it to be settled that's for sure.

I hope Frei will not be out very long. Depth is something extremely rare in the MLS and the fact we have it in this position is a blessing for us.

DoubleUp
03-23-2012, 02:42 PM
Not the way we would have liked it to be settled that's for sure.

I hope Frei will not be out very long. Depth is something extremely rare in the MLS and the fact we have it in this position is a blessing for us.



wont mean much if the team can't keep them out of the net.